 Welcome to the wide world of eSports, a show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Katharine Noor. Today, my guest is Stephie Bow of In It eSports. Our topic is the metaverse, the future of eSports. Welcome, Stephie. Hello, Katharine. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here and to have a very good conversation today. All right. We'll dive right in. What is the metaverse? What's your hearing about this? Well, it's definitely like a word that has been tossed around a lot, as you said. And everybody has a little bit of a different definition for it. I can tell you what I think the metaverse is. The metaverse is an opportunity to do things in the right way. What I mean by that is that the metaverse concept is a digital world where people can transform themselves and transport themselves into it. And by being in there, you can recreate the world in a way. And it's like limitless. Right now, the possibility are like, if you can dream it, you can achieve it in the metaverse. And it's very cool. A lot of people are putting effort into it, and I like to talk more about it. All right. Well, yeah, I'm looking forward to having the most amazing avatar ever in the metaverse. So why is it important to eSports? Well, in a way, eSports is kind of like a lead up into the metaverse. Because if you think about eSports, there is a lot of opportunities in the way of gaming and participation and professional gaming. And it's all digital. So people, they are really involved with eSports. They already are familiar with this type of technology and this type of way of seeing a digital world, like the games that they are very much into the fantasy. That is also like a sort of a metaverse, right? Because it's a fantasy world where you go in there and play. So eSports is teaching us the basic of what it could be a metaverse world. Again, a lot of people think of the metaverse as this word out there. They don't know what it is. And that's totally correct. You don't know what it is because we are just in the infancy and everybody is trying to understand it and figure out a way to participate. Sure. And I think that people who are engaged with eSports would be early adapters because they are used to being in different kinds of fantasy worlds. And they're used to operating an avatar and creating avatars. Why do you think that the metaverse is such a hot topic right now? Well, I will say that it is a hot topic because it became way more public, you know, with Facebook turning to be meta now. A lot of more people are starting to hear this kind of word. But also, as I said, I think it's a natural evolution from the popularity of eSports. eSports is growing, it's becoming more and more a concept that is into household. People understand that there is competitive game and those fantasy games. So it kind of like a link completely together. So the word metaverse now is coming to everybody household and everybody is taking an interest in it. What led you to get involved with eSports? Well, my story is that I am Italian and I was a little girl that I had a dream to become a professional motorcycle racer. I was able to achieve that. I was able to bring home three world titles and then kind of like taught me the aspect of what it is to live the athletic life like as a professional level. I got hurt because I happened to eSports. So I had to kind of like a move from one side of the fence to the other side of the fence. So I ended up and started working into the motorsport industry. A couple of years ago, I was in Italy, visiting my family. And all of a sudden, I noticed my niece that she was spending three to four hours a day watching people playing video games. And I'm like, what's going on? I come from a generation where parents were like, go outside, play. You know, and I did my entire life as an athlete. And it was like a foreigner concept to me. So but it was intriguing. And I decided to dive in, learn as much as I could and put my passion, which is motorsport, together with this world of eSports. So that's how I got involved, how I started to explore. And for me, because of motorsport and motorcycling, it's it's it's a passion of mine. But at the same time, it is very real in the eSport world as well, because if you drive a sim, like a simulator, you know, like everybody's been in a car or most people have been in a car. So therefore, it's easier to understand than showing to somebody like a legal legend or a fortnight competition. So that's how I got involved and I love it. All right. And tell us about in it eSports and we can show your website, which, like I've said, I could probably watch that for hours. Yes, of course, the website reflected the passion, you know, like a car and motorcycle and there are games out there that are very, very technological events that especially the car game, where you can actually look at the game now and schools can use these particular games to be able to teach math and physics because they are so detailed that it's like out of this world like you can create engineer from gaming, right? So be able to capture the interest from people that they are going to school and they want to entertain the type of career. In it eSport now is a company that does a special events with the with the sim racing. Why special events? Because if you know a little bit about eSports, there is tons of a competition out there and tournaments. So me coming in only a couple of years ago, I saw there was almost like already saturated, you know, so I'm a person that really like to creativity to reinvent things. So I'm like, OK, we're going to do special events instead. So special events are all based on the fact of bringing people again, that they are not necessarily involved with eSports to bring them toward the eSports industry. And we're doing that with sim. And as I just said, the sim is relatable because everybody's been in the car. So the conversation is very easy to to start. All right. So let's show the video. Yes. Racing by the eSports is champion diversity, inclusion and equality with a unique event. Right off the bat, though, it's not a clearly confident here. Twenty three is Aaron Cowles in the comfort. Oh, look at this. I actually think Madison is getting a little bit more confident. Great practice session for Madison Packer. A lot of confidence, which it means they have missed the appropriate corner here. Liv Morgan, going to going to turn around here. Oh, you know what? We'll figure it out. Wow, what a practice session. How did it go? I think it went pretty well. It went good. Up currently, this is not supposed to do this. Hopefully, I get some beginners luck. First time I practice for like one day. I'm like, let me just race you to figure it out. Good luck, everyone. And then you're actually seeing some some fighting going on. We're seeing some great racing, you really are. Oh, God, practice in practice, practice in qualifying. The cars are gridded. It looks like green flag is in the air. Already three and four, Rachel. It didn't take long here. And we are all over the place. Now you're running order. Ariel is currently your leader. We've got a regroup. They're coming to the green flag once again. This is the exciting part of each race with the green flag in the air. They're all going to go sailing into turn one. Oh, Mele, already happening here. See, we want to see a few scratches. We're probably going to do it because it's stressful. And that would be it right there. I believe Madison Hammond just crossed the start finish line. Winning the inaugural Race Me event. Fantastic for watching. Well done. All right, Steffi, tell us about that video. Yes. So this was Race Me, which was an event where we put athletes and gamer for diversity and inclusion. So the concept was to show and demonstrate that people, if they come from sports or for in reality any career or any walk in life, they can come together and have a blast, you know, by playing on a sim. I mean, we did the same because it's relatable, as we said, multiple time now. But it was a super interesting event because we had those professional women athletes, there was Hope Solo, Ariel Power, Oksana Master. So all of them have a story behind like Hope is a mom. Oksana is a disabled athlete. Ariel is African American. So really to demonstrate that everybody can play and have fun together in eSports. So these are the special events that we bring to the public to to see that we can all play together in this particular one. It was funny because we needed to have NASCAR, race NASCAR drivers to be the coach of those girls. So because they are incredibly good in what they do, like soccer or basketball or the Olympics, but when they put it in the car, it was powerful because you see the emotion that, you know, like, I want to win. But it was their first time. So the NASCAR driver, they jumped in and they were the coaches and create this all feel good event. And it was very powerful to put different industry together and demonstrate that eSports is for everyone. So as an athlete yourself, how does the skill being a traditional athlete translate to eSports? Well, it does translate, especially mentally, believe it or not. Like when you are a professional athlete, mentally, you have so much pressure on you because you need to perform. And this is exactly the same thing that happens in gaming. Like when you reach the professional level in gaming, when you're going to be doing real competition with big prizes involved, it's the same kind of mentality. It's exactly what a professional athlete goes through. And to say we actually were able to demonstrate through RaceMe because here you have one point, say, oh, my God, I didn't even blink once, which is like something to do in sports. Sometimes, you know, you forget to breathe or you forget to blink. So it was very, very the same feeling, same with hope. But she said, I'm sweating so much that I feel like when I was in the changing room before the workup final, her heartbeat was so like up there. So those by hearing from the athlete, it's so cool because I demonstrate once again that eSports is actually physical, even though you don't move around necessarily, but it takes so much concentration that you need to really be in top shape to be able to perform at the top level. And, you know, sometimes I think that, you know, someone who is actually driving a race car, it's like all they're doing is sitting in there and they're driving a car. But I do understand that that is very physically taxing. Is that your understanding? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I come from the world of motorcycles. So in that way, you kind of have to wrestle around the motorcycle. You know, so you have to be able to move around 250 pounds of weight in the car. Yes, you are sitting in it, but there is a lot of component like back to the concept of the physical math. Like when you go fast around the corner, you're going to get the G force effect. So your body needs to be strong enough to sustain that force. So now a lot of people know that until they try. And, you know, don't do this on the regular street. But if you ended up going into a racetrack just to have a possibility to try it, you will see that it's very physical. So I could see having, you know, SIM type things in the metaverse that people could be driving race cars through the metaverse. What do you think about that? Yeah, I mean, like because that's my lane, it is absolutely what I would like to see. But not only, you know, competing. So taking it even another step, right? So right now we are watching people playing in video games. That would be watching people in a new world playing, you know, like a digital sport. So, you know, like it would be super cool to see racing, but it can also be taken in a different way. The metaverse can become a possibility for kids to learn to drive. You know, like they can learn going there, have a sort of real life experience in a safe environment because they could potentially crash the car but not, you know, hurt anybody or themselves. So it can transform in so many different ways. So that person, maybe in the metaverse, will be able to learn how to drive and then participate in an event in the metaverse and continue their career. Do you think that other skills beyond driving could be taught and learned in the metaverse? Oh, absolutely. I think especially math and physics can be another thing that can be taught in the metaverse. You know, Leo can have a professor that can make a lesson into the metaverse and people in the metaverse can actually do experiment in there. In a way, I like to think it's almost an extension of what he's been doing already. We are doing for NASA, for instance, in the space station. The experiment has been made up there. Now you can do experiment in the metaverse. So really, like it can open up so many different things. And there is the beauty of it is that there is room for everybody. So if you are a creative person or you have an idea, the metaverse become your safe space to try it. Thinking also in this way, if you have to create a product, right? And you know all of the understanding of creating a product but the expense to making a real life. Now you can make it in the metaverse and test it out there. At a fraction of the time. And then if that is good that you can decide to bring it back in the real war or you can turn it into an NFT. Right? All right. Well, you know, another thing that comes to mind is that we've come to find zoom. Paul's and and, you know, other video conferencing type platforms. We we are doing that on a regular basis. And I wonder if we will move some of that like school, work and pleasure into the metaverse. What do you think? Well, you know, like I have a little bit of this idea and concept, which I don't know if it's really what we want to have as human being. But thinking in this way, we can kind of clone ourselves, right? So if we have another version of us in the metaverse, I can take on a bunch of things that maybe, you know, you don't have time to do in your real life, right? So in regards to business and meetings and all of that, you have your avatar days like you, you know, and with the AI is going to just act like you with times. And then you have another version of you. So, you know, it can go in so many different ways, of course. But it could be definitely interesting to see how everything is going to evolve in there. And absolutely, having meetings in the metaverse world. Yes, it's definitely going to happen. Right. And, you know, we have seen things like Minecraft, OK, and teaching opportunities. And I could see where in a the metaverse, the classroom could go back to a place in history. Yeah, actually kind of experiment like their avatars could even be a historical figure. What do you think about that? Yes, like I said at the very beginning of our conversation, I think we're going to discover that we will have a chance to kind of replay history, but do it better and hopefully learn from the past and get a chance to do it in a new way. You know, and everybody together. I like very much the word, the hashtag word connected. We are all a word connected with each other. And we can we can all try to do good, which is something that unfortunately sometime we have forgot throughout the history of times. But hopefully, you know, with a new opportunity right there, starting blank, we might have a possibility to do it right from the get go. Sure. And I would think that this that it could, you know, you talk about the world together and when we're talking about diversity and understanding each other's cultures, I could also see that we could actually experience other cultures in the metaverse. Absolutely. It can be it can be also not that a new way to travel. Thinking in that way, you know, like you would be able to travel in different countries, you know, and be able to learn that culture. And maybe even pick the era of the culture, right? Because the metaphor is not linear, you know, it can be different eras so you can travel and then learn, you know, as much as you can, you know, by just having those kind of experience. I guess my my biggest desire from all of this is that it really becomes like the Internet to do. I will hate to see if there is a company that is going to want to own this. That would be taking away the freedom that the metaverse is set to to be like. So let's just hope that, you know, we're going to all work together to try to keep this for everybody instead of like a managed by somebody. Sure. And I do understand that a number of companies are working to create it. What what information do you have on that? Well, what I'm learning is that because it's a business opportunity, right? So so if you can sell it in, let's say, one thousand real shop. Now, all of a sudden you have a one thousand digital shop. As a business, you have double your possibility to generate income. So I see the business side, but I think if we have a party only that controls all of this, then it's not it's not anymore. That decentralized war that the metaverse is supposed to set up to be. It becomes just like one company or one government, you know, like taking all of this into consideration and dictate everything. I hope that the shaker and the movers right now, you know, they are in the metaverse, they're working, they're going to work very hard to make not that make it to happen and just keep it free and open for everybody. And then, yes, you know, like you can come in, participate, create your own business and and go on, you know, with what you believe. But it has to be open, kind of like the crypto universe, right? So everything is open. Everybody can participate and it's not owned by a single entity. Will brands benefit from the metaverse? Absolutely. The same comes to just said, you know, like if you are a brand that is in the real world right now and they're going to move into the metaverse, all of a Sunday is almost like you have double the opportunities, you know, to bring your product, your idea or your concept, whatever it is into a new world, I will see, like with time, they're going to be branded, just going to be born into the metaverse, they're going to just live there, you know, and that is like the youngest kid. You know, I think there would be the trendsetter to make that happen, you know, in the next 10, 15 years. So what do you think the biggest challenges are to the metaverse? I think it is still a conceptual argument right now. It's not because with people in human being, if you can't touch it, it's difficult to put it into word, right? No, I also put it into word, but like I understand it. That's the right way to say it. So, you know, it's still kind of like an abstract concept at the moment. But more people talking about it, more people just brainstorming and say, I wonder what this could be. It's what is needed right now. So everybody, you know, they have a little bit of an interest. Just go out to seek, you know, linking group, seek opportunity with on Facebook or whatever, you know, like and try to talk to other people. They might be like like minded and understand what this can all turn out. There is not a book that says how this is going to be. So it's up to us to try to make it in a way that we think is going to be good for everybody. So, you know, I think it'll be interesting because there will be people that are native to the metaverse where they were they were born after it was created and that is they don't even know what life is without the metaverse. But then you you're going to have the non native people and even the older generations that will just not get it and not understand how to how to enter it or like what it is of thoughts on that. Well, you know, it's kind of like a way of our life is right. I mean, there are kids nowadays that they never experienced a phone with the dial like this, right? They don't know what that is. So, you know, like it's it's just it's just like the natural life, you know, that is going to there's going to always be evolution. We are going very fast, you know, because of technology and it's going to be interesting. But I think it's always important to look at the younger population because they are the trendsetter of the future. So therefore, you know, like they are born, they will be born in the world where the metaverse is there. And they're going to be the one that they're going to make more differences and new things, you know, coming, coming on. And we're going to still continue to learn. And like everything in life, if you are an early adopter, you're going to, you know, learn and be part of it. And if you want to stay in your ways, that's good, too. You know, like nobody said that you have to be part of the metaverse if you don't want to. Sure. Well, you know, and I'm sure a lot of people remember when there wasn't any microwaves or when there were black and white televisions and then before the internet. And and like you said, a rotary phone. And before we had everyone had a smartphone, you know, I mean. But what's interesting now is that technology is moving so along exponentially and very quick. And so what do you think the impact of the metaverse will have on the kind of more two dimensional internet? Well, I don't really have the answer if I would, you know, I would be like a millionaire because I would be able to predict the future. So I don't know. I mean, I really think that like ever thinking life, if you keep an open mind of what's happening, you listen, you know, that's the way the best way to approach it. Whatever is going to happen, you know, what we already know. I can tell, you know, but I think what is what the trend is going to be is like people are going to continue to learn and adapt. So whatever it works in one dimension, let's go there. It might not work in the metaverse and the other way around. But we're going to only discover it by keep doing and keep trying it. Sure. And do you think that the pandemic has influenced the growth of this or the inspiration to proceed with this? I think they made it faster, you know, like I think there were already people thinking about this concept, but they it was kind of like there. But now, you know, because of the pandemic, everybody was at home. It was like a such important time in history because people really needed to reinvent themselves, you know. So therefore, it kind of spirited this new concept. But like, what if we are stuck at home? And that's why, you know, like people start dreaming of a different world where they can actually be at home by experience stuff that they used to be doing in real life. So the matter is not going to take away, you know, from real life experience. We're not going to see people just with a headset on a VR set and it's in blocks and that's it. No, you know, but it's going to be an extra way to entertain and have experience and that you might not be able to do it, you know, in real life. Sure. What is next for Enid eSports? Well, we have quite a few things in the pipeline, but I'm not kind of ready yet to discuss it. So the best way it is to follow us, you know, like on the website that you can participate in the newsletter or you can find me very active on Lincoln. So if you go on Lincoln dot com slash my name, Stephie Bow. I'm always there, you know, love to meet with people and talk to people. And also Twitter, of course, everybody's on Twitter. So yes, so just follow follow us and we're going to come up with very cool special events that I think you will like. All right, fantastic, Stephie. And I hope I actually see you in the metaverse one day. Oh, I'm sure you will. All right. Well, anyway, thank you for being my guest today. And thank you for joining us today. Next week, my guest will be attorney Irene Skoll to doff Tadev Vassian. We'll talk about eSports litigation. See you then.