 Very good morning to all, today's schedule is as given. So there is going to be a talk by Prof. Sridhar Ayer who is going to talk about a technique called think fair share. I will get into the details of it after the talk but please do pay attention to the talk because there is going to be an activity based on the talk. Usually you need to create a think fair share resource based on what he has told. So let the talk get started, I will get back to you after the talk. I am Sridhar Ayer, one of the faculty in Department of Computer Science. Also worked with the interdisciplinary program on education technology which is a four year old department at IIT. For about ten years I worked in the area of networking and had about five PhD students do their thesis in networking and over the past three years I have stopped doing networking and do mostly education technology nowadays. So what I am going to be talking about in today's session is one strategy of how to get students engaged in the classroom and how to get them also learn better. So the strategy is called think fair share before we get into it. So let us ask the question that when we talk about MOOCs and blended classrooms we have this idea of creating videos and we will put out videos, we will take an excellent instructor and record their videos. Before I get on with it, how many people were also coordinators for the CS101 workshop two weeks ago? So this part, the initial little part is going to be the same for you as well as from that course. So what was done was an experiment saying that suppose let us see how much difference really does the quality of the video or the quality of the way the instructor creates the video matter. So what happened in this experiment was two video lectures were created. In one case the instructor spoke very well, looked at the camera, did the delivery properly, had perfect diction and all of that. In the other case the instructor was kind of slouching and you know looking here and mumbling and you know creating the video in a not so professional manner. But what people wanted to see is does the instructor's delivery, how much does the instructor's delivery, how well the instructor is delivering the lecture, how much does it matter towards student learning. So what would you expect? The one who has delivered it very well that person's students are going to learn better. That is what we would expect. It turns out that when they measured the learning using a test they found that even though the expectation was very different, people expected that in the case of the fluent video students would learn a lot and in the case of the dis-fluent video the students would learn very little. Actually speaking there was no difference in the amount of learning that happened. So what does that tell us? It basically tells us that simply improving the fluency of lectures does not necessarily imply better learning. So as teachers we are always focused on improving our own delivery, we are always focused on saying okay I need to, I didn't do a good job of explaining that part, I need to improve that part. Isn't it? We all do that. So what the point that this experiment makes is that instead of focusing on our own delivery so much we need to start focusing on what makes the student learn better. So change from instructor centric way of teaching learning to a student centric way of teaching learning. So then we ask the question that suppose I have excellent video and I have interaction okay, there is a local instructor who is doing the interaction and I am going to do an interactive classroom okay, where students are free to ask questions, I will ask questions, I will interact with the students okay. Is this good enough? Yes? Yes. Okay so by and large once again we feel that yes this is good enough okay if just the video is not good enough maybe I will add some interaction with the students to bring them into the classroom, make them pay attention, it turns out that this is necessary but it's not sufficient okay, why is it not sufficient? It's not sufficient because primary reason is that students don't pay at most attention okay. Usually we are the ones who are most thrilled with our lectures right, we are always thinking that I am doing a great job, everybody is listening to me, even now, every time even however much we are aware I really don't know what's going on over there in people's minds, you know somebody is thinking about breakfast, somebody is thinking about how the Gandhi Nagar Mehta bus took a turn and all those things right, so it's not entirely nobody is really paying as much attention to me as I think people are paying, that's the key okay. The second reason is students think that they know the topic because they are able to follow the lectures, this is often a major drawback of excellent lecturing, because the lecturer has such a command on the subject and is able to give a fantastic lecture, the student who is sitting there and listening, he thinks that okay I understood everything because the explanation was very good, so the misconceptions that they have or the points which they have not understood, they are confronted with that only much later okay, later being in the exam okay and that's why as instructors we often feel that I did such a great job of teaching but still these fellows are not able to score marks in my exam, okay that's where that feeling comes from, okay the third point is it's difficult to ensure that all the students in the class participate actively, okay, so students with high motivation levels will drive the pace right, often you find that in your class you will see that there will be those four students in the first two, three rows who will keep on asking questions, who will keep on saying something or the other and before we know it, we are responding to those guys and the rest of the class gets left behind, okay, it happens to all of us, has it happened to you? Okay, so students with low achievement levels get left behind and finally however interactive the instructor may try, the students have a barrier to responding directly to the instructor, okay, so there is some amount of shyness and there is some amount of diffidence which students have in responding to instructors, right, so if we have a tactic which tries to force everyone, so there are some instructors who use a tactic saying that you know they'll point at somebody and say okay you answer or you answer, what happens next class? That person bunks, right, so that's usually what happens that you don't want, so those tactics also often backfire, so what we want is a method where this without four six students we are still able to get them to interact, we are still able to get them to engage with the content, okay, so those techniques are called active learning, okay, the difference being that instead of passively listening in the classroom what the instructor is explaining or some small amount of interaction, the students are actively engaged with the content, okay, so getting students to talk, write, reflect and express their thinking, okay, many of the times we do this in our classroom, we do it informally, so there are some requirements for a strategy to qualify as a active learning strategy, one is that the instructor has to pre-plan and create these activities, students go beyond listening, copying notes and so on and the last two points are that these strategies are explicitly based on theories of learning, okay, it's not a strategy which is like okay I think that will work, I think this is what I should do, it's based on a theory of learning saying okay this is the structure of how students motivation works, this is the structure of how memory works and then the strategy is created so that we can address it appropriately and many of these strategies are evaluated repeatedly through empirical research, okay, so this broad area is called active learning strategies, okay, so before I go on to talk about actual strategies, I need to convince you that it's even worth listening to this guy, right, so okay all this active learning is fine, is there really a benefit, so there were, there was a very large experiment that was conducted, okay, so this experiment involved 6,500 students across 62 courses across a variety of institutions and they had a test which is called the force concept inventory which is a standardized test for one topic in physics and what they measured was how much do students score on this test in various instructors classrooms, okay, so what do you find is that what is being calculated is something called gain, okay, gain means how much did the student know before versus how much does the student know after, okay, so everybody knows something about force right from their school days, so how much did they learn, how much did they gain as a result of the classes, okay, and it turns out that the maximum gain from lecture courses was 0.28, okay, which is somewhere around here, okay, all these red bars and all these, most of these lecturers were excellent teachers, okay, they had terrific command of the subject, excellent delivery, all of that, still it was found that those students, the gain was only 0.28, okay, on the other hand for instructors who are using some kind of active learning strategy, the gain was fairly spread out all the way from 0.2 or 0.23 to 0.7 depending upon how well the instructor was able to use that strategy, okay, so what this basically means is that even if you are an excellent lecturer, if you incorporate active learning strategies in your classroom, the amount of learning that your students are going to have is going to increase a lot, okay, that's one thing. The second thing is even if you are not that great a lecturer, okay, which many of us don't feel that I am that great, I am average, you know, many of us have that feeling that okay, I am average, I am not that great, I am not that bad either, so especially for such instructors, incorporation of active learning strategies actually manages to get them to perform or get their students to perform comparable to those who are doing excellent lecturing, okay, so that's the implication of this slide, okay, so what I am assuming at this point, I would have spent a little more time on this if all the buses had arrived on time, but since we have lost some time, I'm not going to spend more time on this, but I'll assume that you are convinced that there is some merit in this idea of active learning strategies, so what are the features of such strategies, so one is students engage in problem-solving activities during the class time, okay, so often this problem-solving activity is relegated to after the class time, so in the class they come here and sleep and then just before the exam, they go back and study, right, that's usually what is the policy that we follow, so it's like flip classroom, what you would have heard earlier is also one such strategy which makes students engage in problem-solving in the class rather than outside the class, okay, so student ideas are elicited and addressed, students are asked to figure things out, they're asked to express their reasoning, all of that, okay, so there's a whole bunch of advantages of active learning strategies, what are these strategies, okay, there are many of them and they're all well studied activities, think-pair-share, peer instruction, team-pair-solo, so flip classroom for example is based on this peer instruction strategy and what I'm going to be talking about today is this one strategy called think-pair- share, okay, so let's start with just executing one of these activities, okay, so what you have to do is consider a large class, okay, where there is a huge auditorium and there are 450 students and imagine 90 minute lecture in such a classroom, okay, right now I think I am 10 minutes into this class and already I can see people's eyes closing, okay, so imagine 90 minutes of that, alright, so now what you have to do is predict the percentage of students who may be showing engaged behavior with the content of the lecture at various instance of time, okay, so what you want to do is you want to say that, okay, in the beginning students engagement is somewhere here, then slowly it increases, then it goes down, maybe it increases again, whatever, okay, so I'll give you two minutes to predict what that graph will look like, okay, each of you, so notebooks have to come out and the graph needs to be drawn, okay, don't start talking to anybody yet, just imagine either your own class or maybe the class of your favorite instructor or anybody and predict over 90 minutes how is the students engagement or how much are the students going to pay attention over a 90 minute class, is the question clear to everybody, I still see some people just sitting, I need to see pens moving, draw a graph of engagement or how much students are paying attention versus time as your own lecture progresses, it's for a traditional lecture, yeah, I mean you can imagine your own lecture, it's fine, it doesn't really have to be traditional, you can say interactive lecture, doesn't matter, done, how many people are done, alright most people are done, okay, so let's move on to the next step, so this was the think step, the next step is along with your neighbor, whoever is sitting on left, right, okay, examine each other's graphs, okay, so you have an interesting graph, you have some other interesting graph, are they looking the same and then together come up with a technique which can make the graph look like this, basically what we are saying is 80% of engagement almost all through the class, okay, it's not like it's increasing, so many of you would have drawn a graph which goes up and then slowly goes down and comes down somewhere here, right, so you don't want that graph, so what you want to come up with is a strategy by which this stays up, okay, yeah, so talk to each other now, so first examine your each other's graphs and give your logic as to why you drew the graph that way, right, I guess most of you would have thought of some ways, so let me do one thing, let me write down your ideas, okay, something like that at a regular interval of some time so that they'll be reactivated, okay, quiz after every 20 minutes, yeah, then at the mid of the class I can discuss something out of the subject, so what we'll do is we'll make a list of these strategies and then we'll examine if that will help us to sustain the engagement, okay, it can bring the engagement, can it sustain, that's the question we'll ask later, okay, so as and when I'm putting up strategies, if you have a strategy which is different from what is already being put up then respond, yeah, real-time examples, real-time examples or real-life examples, okay, asking questions to students, after doing some board work roaming throughout the classroom, roaming throughout the classroom, sorry every 15 minutes I'll do some funny things to wake up a sleeping student, such as what some jokes, okay jokes, yeah real-time jokes and that's right, okay, hello, activity-based learning is just a term so what do you mean by that, real-life example is already there, actually show that activity, okay, ask the students to come up and engage that it will take around five to ten minutes to show actually that example, okay, and second is peer-share after quiz, what is it, peer-share let us allow the student to discuss on some topic for five minutes, seven minutes then make a quiz for that, okay, peer-share after quizzing, okay, then anybody else, so somebody from this side, yeah, sir by specifying the previous year questions also, specify, okay, so specifying previous year's question do you think it'll bring engagement in the class or they'll think that, okay, I've got last year's questions I'll just go away, yeah, go ahead, share short stories, share short stories, share stories, they'll loudly break, then every story is fine, interesting and released from my talk and I will not definitely give break for five minutes but after two minutes I will again start my cut but when the word break is heard they are okay, everybody is waiting for that word break, good one, yeah, learning by demonstration, what does that mean, suppose we can demo the concepts those we have explained just up inside the classroom itself, okay, demo, showing demos of concepts explained, yeah, animations kind of, yeah, demos and animations, yeah, yeah, go ahead, refreshing YouTube videos, yeah, demo of concepts explained, animations, videos, okay, I'll ask two more, role play, okay, how will you do role play in computer networking, actually you can, so it's not so hard, so in fact, let me tell you, so in fact there was, there is a paper which, you know, some of our, we ran a course like this for teaching teachers like you to do active learning experiments in their class, one teacher, she actually did a dance of, that's you, okay, why don't you tell about your strategy? To share with you all, I have written 40 lectures with 40 different activities I have experimented. Can you tell your name first? Myself Bhavna Ambedkar from Padmashi Doctor D. Y. Patil Institute, Pimpri Pune, I have done for all the subject contents, all 40 lectures with interactive sessions. As you have asked, sir, this I would like to say, every 60 minute lecture I have planned with the activity, after 10 or 12 minutes, I have planned activity. This book is called as Faculty Resource Guide and which is released by Vipro Mission 10x. Okay, thank you. That dance activity I did especially for seven layers of OSI model. Yeah. So, Anne, she wrote a paper about it. Okay, role play, anybody else? Yeah, sir. What I do is that I give some problems related to computer network and whoever is the first who answers correct answer gets a chocolate from me. Sir, we'll give the application, industrial application of the concept and ask a problem to solve in 5 to 10 minutes. Industrial application and ask problem to be solved. Okay, okay, last. What is state of art? So, how does that bring engagement? You have to say how, whatever it is that you do will bring engagement. Talk about described state of art, okay. Okay, so, stop here. So, what we have done is come up with a bunch of techniques and now, typically what I would do is I would go through each of these techniques and evaluate whether it can bring momentary engagement or whether it can bring sustained engagement, okay. So, some of them are momentary engagement techniques. For example, telling a joke, people are engaged when you are telling the joke. Once the joke is over, they go back to sleep, okay. So, some of them can do sustained engagement also. Like, for example, quiz after every 20 minutes, but then on the other hand, will they come back for the next class? That's the question you need to ask yourself, okay. So, many of these things are there. I'm not going to do that today again because of lack of time. What we'll do instead is move on and try to write some of these activities for networking, okay. So, the third one is to create a combined list of techniques. That's the share phase and discuss the pros and cons of each technique. We have not really done that thoroughly. Let me move on to talking about what is TPS, okay. What is this think-pair-share? So, what we just did is called think-pair-share, okay. So, there are three phases. First phase, what did you do? You thought about a problem. You worked individually, right. The second phase, you worked with a neighbor and in the third phase, we all talked together and we all shared the answers, okay. So, that's basically the think-pair-share as the main things, okay. Why is it useful in large classes like blended MOOCs or, you know, large remote classrooms and so on? Because the well-known challenges of teaching learning in large classes apply to these blended MOOCs, okay. I mean, if you're going to talk to a student through a camera who is on that side, you really have no control about whether the student is fiddling around with the mobile or doing something else. So, what's important is we won't active learning techniques that engage the entire class. See, the keyword here is entire class, okay. How many of you drew a graph? When I asked, saying draw a graph, how many of you didn't draw a graph? That may be a smaller number, right. And most people were engaged. Even if you didn't draw a graph, you're curious what graph is that guy drawing. And when I say, okay, start talking, everybody wants to talk. Isn't it? So, that's the idea. You're able to engage the entire class, not just the subset of class which is talking to you, which is responding to you. So, it's a relatively easy way to achieve the benefits of small group learning in a large session, okay. You also get an idea of how much people have learned, no rapid feedback that you can get, okay. So, quickly for the definition, instructor poses a problem, okay. In the first phase, the teacher asks a specific question about the topic and students think about what they know and come up with their own individual answer, okay. Second phase, the teacher asks another question which is related to the previous one. So, if you just go back to the example, first I told you draw a graph, okay. Everybody can draw that graph because everybody has sat in a class, everybody has stood in a class, all of that has happened, right. And then you say, okay, now come up with a strategy which will change the graph so and so, okay. So that's the next question that the teacher asks. And finally, you share all the solutions that come up, you discuss pros and cons and so on. So, this is the basic three phases of think-per-share or TPS as we call it, okay. Why does it work? Students are actively engaged, right. All of you are engaged when we said, okay, how will you make that graph? Students learn from each other, you know, it reduces the burden on the teacher, basically that's the main point. It's a very good strategy for lazy teachers, okay. Let students learn from each other, reduce your own burden. You stand here, you walk around, do all those other things, okay. So, and more importantly, students can tackle large ill-structured problems, okay, and develop the ability to consider multiple points of use. Many other benefits are there, makes the class interactive, students realize that even others are struggling. That's again an important point, you know. So, when you find that, okay, you've got the wrong answer and it's okay, the other guy also has got the wrong answer, you feel a little better. You feel that, okay, it's not that bad, I'm not that badly off, things like that, okay. So, all of that are the benefits of TPS. So, how do we introduce TPS in such large blended MOOCs and large-scale teacher training programs? So, first of all, why should you care is that you can have, as coordinators, you can have TPS activities during the synchronous interaction phase, you know. So, you have some control over what's going on in your remote center, and whatever your students learn depends upon how well you execute your TPS, okay. So, what does a TPS activity look like in networking? All this is fine, generic stuff that I talked about, engagement and so on, all that is fine. In specific to networking, how does TPS look? So, here's an example. So, this question comes after the initial lecture, right. So, we all start with talking about either the OSI stack or some TCP IP stack, we say, okay, physical layer, Mac layer, network layer, transport layer, okay. So, we describe the stack. So, after that, this is a question that I ask my students. So, I'll give you a few minutes to read it, and then we'll discuss whether this is a good activity, if so why. So, what's written under think-pair-share is what I get the students to do in each of those phases, okay. So, is that a good activity? Why? It is easier than listening to the class, okay. So, engagement in that subject and in that topic, instead of, okay, they will concentrate on the topic, what's going on in class, okay. Right, since they came up with some ideas, they'll remember it for a longer time, right. I mean, you often have ownership to something that you come up with, right. I might tell you, okay, layering has its advantages, modularity, abstraction, this, that, yeah, all those are just words, if I tell you. But if you identify that, look, because of layering, I'm getting this advantage, that is going to stick with you, that's the point, yeah. They can extend their knowledge. They can extend their knowledge, okay. So, let's come to specifics. So, these are some of the broad advantages which are true for any TPS activity. So, what we are asking is why is this specific activity, like technical activity, good. Why is it good to ask them to write one reason for and one reason against layering? So, we will get a different answer, okay. We'll get different answers from different students, yeah. Some amount of self-learning will happen, okay. So, that, again, I'm going to put up, put it in the category of general advantages of TPS, okay. Specific to this question. Again, that's generic. So, let's not talk about generic advantages of TPS, yeah. Yes. We get different answers that shows their creativity, I mean, that shows their creative mind, how they think and how they, I mean, come out of that question. Creativity is, again, here. So, what I'm looking for are specific answers, okay. From this excite, students can know where we apply the layers, how can we use these layers, where we do not apply particular thing due to the advantages and disadvantages, actually, what the need of knowing the layers. Okay. So, this is, so, I'm looking for answers of this type, okay, which is very specific to what we have put up. So, one example is, by discussing, students know when not to use layers. Typically, we try to say this is always a good idea. There are instances when it's not a good idea. Let them think about it, when not to use layers. Okay. Anybody else? Yeah. Exploration of the domain and then by sharing, it will grow up for all the students. Okay. So, I'm going to put that also in the generic advantages. Okay, specifics. Let's get into specifics. Visual, what? Realization. Off. So, whatever the things happening, there'll be visual realization of the data, whatever things happening there. Okay. Layers, I don't know. Okay. Visual, let me write it anyway. Okay. Anybody else? They are also made to think about others' ideas. Okay. Think about others' ideas on layering. Okay. I mean, it's like, I might feel that this is good. It's like choosing a political party, right? I mean, you might have one choice, somebody else might have another choice and then you have to have a debate. Basically, the activity encourages debate and debate improves understanding. So, by giving one answer against and for the motion, they'll get to know another 10 advantages and disadvantages of the layers of the layering concept. Right? Because I come up with one, 10 is a little far-fetched because 10, I don't know whether we'll be able to, because most of them will be similar. Right? I mean, I'll come up with one advantage and disadvantage. You'll come up with one. There may be a bunch of five or six such answers. Yeah, last one. Actually, each layer is a different layer level of abstraction, though they'll understand what is the good in having the interaction among the abstraction and what difficulties can it be and they can apply it in any other strategy also, let it be object orientation or anything. It makes them understand the interaction. Okay. So, I'll stop with that. Requirement of new layer or new layer of existing layers. Okay. They can talk about, discuss, introducing new layers or remove existing ones. Okay. So, that's again, we are getting them to engage deeply with the content. Yeah. Individually, they are able to only solve some part of the task and by collectively, as an entire team, all layers, they will be to solve the whole problem of that area. Okay. So, individually, they can only do small amount. Collectively, they can do a lot, which I'll again put it in the generic advantages. Okay. Okay. But specifically, now, what you find is that by doing a TPS activity like this for 10, okay, last, absolute last. The active student will be active and deactive student will be deactive, even you two inspire or anything, like in team of two. Okay. So, the point is, let me address that question. So, the point he's making is active student will be active and non-active student will be non-active. Yeah. You know what happens in a classroom? See, for example, if somebody next to you is sleeping, he's going to find it very difficult to sleep when you're talking. You know, that's the problem. So, it does make up non-active students. They may not really want to engage. They may not want to hear layering. But everybody is saying, layering, layering, something, something. Okay. These fellows eventually going to pay attention to say, what are these fellows talking about? It may be a tune for sleeping. Yeah. So, we are not trying. Okay. One thing we must remember, we're not trying for 100% at any point. Okay. If you are able to carry 80% of your class, you're doing great as an instructor. Okay. Because typically you're carrying 20%. So, when 20% you're going to 80%, don't attempt 100% because that's killer. Okay. So, now coming back to this, if you look at layering, what we have done is, typically, however good a lecture I might have given, I would have just said a few things. Right. I would have transmitted. That's called the information transmission model. I would have transmitted some information about layering. And the student may have thought that, okay, I understood it. That may have taken 10 minutes. Now, in the same 10 minutes, what you're achieving is they are engaging with the content. They are coming up with ideas. And it has been shown that they would have learned more deeply than through an excellent lecture. Okay. That's the point about carrying out activities in this manner. So, total time of this activity is about 25 minutes. Okay. Actually, I've got it wrong. So, it should not be 10 minutes for the pair face. Never mind. Okay. So, moving on, let's see about writing an activity ourselves. So, now, assume that you have finished with the network layer and now you're starting to talk about reliable transport and so on. Okay. So, you want to get students to get to the point of what exactly is there in TCP? What are the concepts in TCP that lead to reliable in sequence delivery? So, what you have to do now is to write what you will ask in the think phase, what you will ask in the pair phase and what you will ask in the share phase. Is the question clear? You want your students to think about what is, how does TCP provide reliable in sequence delivery? You don't want to tell them the answer, mind you. You want them to think about it and try to come up with the basic idea of the answer. So, you have to write what should be done in the think phase, what should be done in the pair phase and what should be done in the share phase. Yeah. Somebody had a question. If we have, we are supposed to teach whatever we are having, technical knowledge. We are not teaching them literature. We are supposed to uplift them technically. So, in this way, we have lost 25 minutes which were crucially important for us to deliver more and more technical information to them and those things we can provide them in making tough assignments also. Okay. So, the question is, have you lost the 20 minutes that we did on layering? So, just go back to thinking about the layering example. Okay. I did not tell you about layering. I made you do this vague activity. What is at the end of it? Did you learn or did you not learn? The chances are that you have learned. Okay. So, that is the point. So, I am not saying that do your entire class in this manner. That is wrong. Okay. But having one or two such activities in a one hour class not only helps engagement, but will also increase learning. Okay. I will show you some data later on as to why it actually works. But the key idea is that the fact that when we think that, okay, I have to transmit information. I have to tell them something technical. That is a misconception because they are not listening. Sir, my point of view is that these all type of activity can be done only in the tutorial. If we are doing these type of activity in our normal classes, then in some way we are disturbing the other classes also. And if we are going to take all these type of activity, making joke, making dance, discussing something, this simply means that we are not technically prepared so well. Well, this is a lot of your, you know, you are trading on very nice here. Sir, students are so smart. They can easily understand today what the teacher is coming with what energy level and how many minutes he will teach perfectly. If we are making jokes, it means I totally spoil my lecture. If I simply discuss that who won in IPL, students are very smart. They even know that today there is no good out teacher to teach anything more. So, I am not advocating telling jokes of that sort. First of all, okay. Second of all, I am not advocating use these strategies because you are ill prepared. You have to be more than well prepared in order to execute such strategies well in your classroom. Otherwise, there will be utter chaos. Okay. The third thing is about the noise factor. See, there is going to be noise in your class. Your class is going to look different from other classes. There is no doubt. The point is to show to your colleagues how much learning is happening. Get your colleagues also to have noisy classes. That is what we want to get at. Okay. So, let us come back to track. I will take more of these general TPS benefits and disadvantages type of questions at the end. Let us first write to an activity. Okay. So, this is the question. What you want your students to do is to guide them towards discovering how does TCP provide reliable in-sequence delivery. Okay. So, you need to write what is there in the think phase, what is there in the pair phase and what is there in the share phase. And there is no single correct answer over here. So, do not have to wait for that single correct answer to appear. You can do this as groups. I mean, you do not have to just come up with it on your own. So, you can discuss with your neighbor and just together come up with what you are going to do in the various phases. So, in each phase, you have to write what will you ask the student to do. Okay. Not the answer. For example, you may say in the think phase, you might write a question like how will you ensure that I know whether a packet is lost or not. Something like that. So, that kind of questions is what you want to write down. Why is reliability important? Sure. Yeah. I will note it down. Just I will give you a few minutes to finish writing. Just hold on. Let us not go into sharing till people are done. Okay. I am ready to wrote down. Who wants to go first? Yeah. If you are starting from scratch, then give some non-technical question which relates to TCP reliability like in sequence reliability. So, for example, in think you can ask them to write advantages and disadvantages of registered post and simple post. So, how they they will come up with solutions like they will pair up with students. Okay. Other students and come with the solutions. Okay. Advantages and disadvantages of registration. Wait, wait. Let them finish. In a pair phase, they will share advantages and disadvantages of I mean with the nearby students. Okay. Yeah. They will come up with what are the pros and cons. And they will share again, all students will share the solutions. Okay. So, how will this achieve the objective of getting them to understand this? Acknowledgement is there in the registered post. While in the simple, I mean we do not have any acknowledgement. Okay. So, that is the point. Okay. Next. Somebody started speaking there. Firstly, we will ask them what is in sequence delivery? In the thinking stage. Okay. Then in the pairing stage, let them discuss if it is out of sequence. What could be the pros and cons and why this in sequence is required. Okay. And another could be the like what is reliability in delivering the data? Yeah. Liability. Okay. Okay. I will come to discussing each other. Let me write down a few. Yeah. Think how to establish the connection and who will be involved in that. Okay. Connection and determination and who will be involved in that. Pairing stage. Discuss how actually the data will be transmitted and what will be the intermediate parties they will be involved for actually data transmission or loss. Okay. And the sharing stage discussing all about the advantages of reliable and unreliable transmission by taking an example of. Okay. First, we have to know what is TCP and to end responsible for end to end communication in thinking phases. Then pair we have to. What is the question? What is it that you will ask them to do? What is reliable? Reliability. Okay. That is the question you will ask them to answer. Yeah. Okay. Then in pair what is sequence numbering? Then share about how to use sequence number to achieve reliability. Okay. During the pairing time we are supposed to give an activity based question. So I will ask somebody that you have been given five chocolates with sequence number one to five. Now you are supposed to deliver it to the last guy through your friends. Write down the protocol for that. Okay. With numbers one to five to be delivered to last student. Okay. Then that is the think phase or the pair phase. So what is there in the think phase? Okay. So think phase you will get them to think about registered post versus ordinary post. In the pair phase you will say okay I will give you five chocolates and these numbers how you will do. What will you do in the share phase? The protocol that I will write in the pair phase that is further to be explained in the context of TCP IP. Okay. The share phase. Good. Go ahead. Think phase. Think phase. Do you need any acknowledgement for sending a query? Why? Okay. And in the pair phase, so what are the possible ways of acknowledgement? Okay. And the share phase so discuss about whatever we have. TCP. Okay. Compare with TCP. Okay. Last. Sure. In the think phase I will ask the student to write a cheat message. Write what? Write a cheat message. Okay. Strip of message to one of your friends in the class and write down the name of the first forward friend. And in the share, pair phase I will ask them to find out the route through which the cheat message is forwarded and related to computer network. And in the share phase I will ask them to find whether they have got a reply. And if they haven't got a reply, go and check what happened to your cheat. Done. Okay. Last. Sir, I will ask them to first in the think phase whether TCP is a connection oriented or connectionless protocol. Okay. They don't know. They don't know the answer to that. They might be. Okay. I just, they can think what are the connection oriented and connectionless protocols. Okay. Then in pair phase they can discuss what TCP is actually doing in that phase. Okay. Whether it is a connectionless or connection oriented. Okay. And accordingly in the same phase they can think about the reliability also in the pair phase. Okay. And finally in the share phase we can share with all the class. Okay. So let me stop here and just look at these answers. Okay. So let's start from the beginning. So when we say advantage disadvantage of registered post was a simple post. So one point that you want to observe is that most of you have got it right in the sense that the think phase one key thing is it should be accessible to everybody. Okay. And when you ask a question like what is the advantage of disadvantage of registered post? Pretty much every student in the class can write an answer to that question irrespective of whether that student came to the previous class or not. Okay. Otherwise often we are building on information from the previous class. Right. And there's only one person who is constantly attending all those classes which is yourself. Right. And you are carrying everything in your mind. You're saying I taught this in the last class. They should be remembering. 50% of them were not there in your last class. And the other 50% were doing something else. So that assumption that they should remember what I taught them in the last class is invalid. Okay. So when we write something like this in the think phase which is accessible to everybody, person who has come to that class for the first time after a while also can attempt that question. That is a key thing to keep in mind about that. Okay. Then let's take the next one. See here for example, the next one is you start with saying, okay, what is in sequence delivery? Maybe they write some answer. And the pair phase is building neatly on what the think phase has done. They're saying that, okay, now what to do if the packet is out of sequence? In sequence delivery means one, two, three, four, five, all of them are going to reach at the other end as one, two, three, four, five. And then as a pair, that is something again which every student is able to answer. Then the pair question makes it slightly more challenging saying that, okay, suppose packet number three is lost. What will you do? What is the protocol that you will set up to ensure that packet number three is retransmitted? So the pair starts building on what they have already answered in the think phase. Okay, similar. The third one is also similar. No reliability sequence numbering, registered post. Okay. So let me also comment upon, yeah, so this one which talks about act for courier, why are acts required? What are the possible ways of acknowledgement? That again is a good question because some of them may think of negative acknowledgements to begin with. They may say that, okay, I'll use a negative knack-based protocol. Okay. Then you can get into the advantages of act versus knack-based protocols. Okay, let me talk about this one. Write a cheat to your friend, find the root of the cheat message and look at what happened to your cheat. This is a good TPS activity, but not for this problem. Okay, so it's a good TPS activity for routing. So that is again something that you want to keep in mind, saying what is your goal? Your goal is to get them to think about TCP's two, three main ideas. Okay, what are the main ideas that you want them to think about? We want to say, okay, put sequence numbers. We want to say, okay, have acknowledgements. We want to say, have retransmission. These are the three main ideas that you want them to acquire before you dive into the details of how these are done. Okay, so this particular TPS activity will actually get them off into thinking about routing and what happens if there are different routes and so on. Okay, so coming back, let's see what was the activity that I had in my class. Okay, so this was the activity that I had given, saying that TCP is a transport layer protocol that guarantees reliable in-sequence delivery. Suppose you have to design a TCP like protocol. Okay, so TPS, think-pair-share is an excellent mechanism for tackling design problems. See, there's no single correct answer. TCP happens to be that way because that's the way it has evolved. I mean it's not mathematical law that TCP should work that way. Okay, so it's good to get your student to go through that process of inventing a protocol. So this is what my students did. Okay, so they write down the features that you will provide in your protocol to include reliable delivery. So the moment you say reliable delivery, they are going to think of acknowledgments. Okay, the moment you say in-sequence delivery, they are going to say some numbering. Okay, and that is accessible to every student. They don't have to know anything about networking to say those two answers. Okay, then they say that, okay, discuss your features with your neighbor and come up with one protocol. Show through an example how your protocol will handle a lost packet. That's the pair phase. And in the share phase, you compare your solution with the specific actions of TCP. So in my class, what happens is a lot of argument happens in the share phase because each of these students has invented a protocol. And because he's invented a protocol, he wants to know why this is not there in TCP, why my idea is not there in TCP. So they'll not let me progress and they'll keep on saying that, okay, but why is TCP doing that? Why it's not doing this? So a lot of discussion gets generated. And that actually answers your question that a lot of technical material gets covered because of these questions that come in the share phase. Okay, so this is one example. And I think I'm almost out of time, I'm at 10.30. So there are a whole bunch of examples which I've included in the slides. Okay, so here's another example about layering. Somebody had mentioned that we can use layering to use the same concept elsewhere in object oriented and so on. So this is an example which gets them to think about the concept of layering, where all can you find it? Okay, so you can go through this slide later on, which explicitly says what the student should do, what the instructor should do and all. Then there's another example about Wi-Fi, where we talk about why should, why does Wi-Fi use collision avoidance instead of collision detection? Okay, getting students to discover the idea of why RTSCTS packets are required. Then there is an example on addressing, okay, getting them to understand about subnetting and another example of how headers are attached, how headers are removed and so on. So what I'm trying to illustrate through these slides, I don't expect you to read all of it now, but I do expect you to read it later on. Okay, but what I'm trying to illustrate is, depending upon your goal, is your goal detailing, is your goal conceptual understanding, is your goal protocol design, depending upon your goal, you can tweak the TPS activity so that that particular goal is met. Okay, so once again you have, what is this one? Okay, yeah, this is about setting the retransmission timeout, right? How do you do the exponential averaging filter in order to get the RTO values? Okay, okay, so now let me quickly summarize by saying how much difference does TPS make? So these are some experiments that we conducted, not in a networking class, but in a programming class, which is the CS101 class, which is taught to 450 students. Okay, and this actually answers many of the questions about what happens if I don't deliver technical material to the students. So what we did was, we came up with the protocol. So there was a bunch of PhD students who were sitting in different areas of the classroom, and they were observing the students periodically. So in a 10 second interval, they would observe every student three times. Okay, and that was an observation protocol. So we observed a total of 13 TPS activities across the semester, and we found that 83% of the students on an average are mostly or fully engaged, okay, by actual observation. We also found that when we asked the survey to the students that did you benefit from this thing phase, what was your benefit from the pair phase and so on, again their self-perception of engagement matched with our measurements. The second thing that we did was that, I mean this was the same doubt in our minds, that am I wasting my lecture time, precious lecture time, which I should be telling them something. Okay, so that is actually the misconception. The precious lecture time is for discussion. What they should do is watch the video outside. The video is already there, you watch it outside, come to class and discuss. That's where the learning happens. Okay, what we were trying to see is how much learning happens. So we had a controlled experiment. So there was one group, I had two sections. So in one section, it so happened that I didn't do the TPS, and by the time it was time for the lecture, for the next section, the idea for the TPS activity had struck me. So naturally, it turned out to be a controlled design. And it turns out that the experimental group, which learns the concept via TPS activity, okay, even though all these drawbacks, like you mentioned, that it might appear that the TPS is, you know, instructor is ill-prepared or no discussion is going on over the place, even though all those things appear to be so, the group which learned via the TPS activity actually performed significantly better with a moderate to high effect size than the control group, okay. And the student's self-perception of learning is also high. And yeah, I mean, these are the papers in which these results have appeared. Both of them are fairly top-level conferences in computing education. So basically, that's our evidence for why the technique works, okay. So let me summarize. So there is a TPS activity constructor sheet. So if you are interested, if you have got some buy-in into the idea, there is a sheet which you can download, which I have not asked him to print and bring, but you can simply download and use it, which will have guidelines and steps whereby you can create your own activity. So there are three points to keep in mind. Can you guess what these three points are? Point number one, think, share, that's true. As a designer of a TPS activity, what's point number one that I should keep in mind? How to make them think. How to make them think, but how to construct the activity? Time constraint. He can attempt. He should be able to attempt. That's point number one, okay. First is, okay, I've not written that here, but the think phase should be attemptable by everybody, okay. So what we are saying is, ensure that there is a clear deliverable for each phase. If you leave the phase fuzzy, you know, think about something, which has no deliverable, nothing is going to happen in your class. Then actually what you're saying is true. That will happen. That some discussion happens. They start talking about IPL. All other things will start happening, except the technical discussion, okay. So there has to be a clear deliverable for each phase. And the think phase has to be kept accessible to everybody. The second idea is that the phases have to be logically connected. They should use the output of one phase in the next phase. So the pair phase is to build on the thing. So if you take the example that we did in the beginning, first draw the engagement graph. The second one was draw the graph or what will you do to get a graph like this, okay. So they have to be connected because the output of the first phase should be used in the next phase. And the third one is that you have to ensure that there is sufficient time for each phase. So often what happens is, when we are doing this for the first time, it's new to you. It's new to the students, okay. So students are just sitting there looking at you because something new that you're doing. And you're standing here looking at students wondering why they're not writing. And after some time you panic, you start lecturing, okay. That's quite often that happens. So you have to be managing that a little bit. So if you give very little time and if you start telling much before that, nothing much is going to happen. On the other hand, if you take too long, you say, okay, do a TPS activity, my chai pee kya atam, okay. Then again, they are going to get bored. And now they are going to distract from what you're doing. So the idea is you should move on when 80% of the class has finished that particular activity. Okay. So now I'll take open questions back to, yeah. A course will have, let's say 50s to 60 concepts to cover if you are kind of segregating. And from the looks of it, each activity, especially if you're talking about protocol design kind of a thing is more or less like some of the things I've seen, I would say it'll, especially if you're dealing with a larger, if it's a UG class here with a 100 students, whatever, even if you break it into 30, 40 student tutorial sessions, I think that phase itself will easily take 30 minutes. Okay. So it looks like you could at most test maybe some 10 concepts or other cover material related to 10 concepts, which is better than actually doing no, nothing. But when there were 60 concepts, you're just making them kind of better. Okay. So just so, okay. So let me respond. Else you could do for the other. Yeah. So the point is that TPS is not the only strategy. Okay. So for some of the concepts, TPS is a good strategy where you want this discussion to happen. Okay. So the other peer instruction strategy, for example, where there is a single correct answer, you could use the peer instruction strategy over there. And the point is you can pick and choose between these activities. If there are 40 concepts, you say, okay, these 10 concepts, I want everybody to be able to have a good grip off. Only those 10, I'm going to do using TPS. The others, I might simply just go ahead and do a open group activity or, you know, do something without doing an extremely formal TPS. You could go ahead and do. Okay. The one thing that I have found is that even though it takes time, it covers technical material at a level which, which like somebody mentioned this, because the students are coming up with their ideas, they have great deal of buy. So in one class, let me give you an example. So in one class, it was about queuing. Okay, WFQ and all of that I had to do. So it was a one and a half an hour class. I thought I had prepared for a two hour class. And because I had done it using the TPS mode, the class got done in one hour. And there were like complex ideas which students were finding out, instead of my having to tell them. So that is a plus point, which actually outweighs some of these, how much time does it take? So you have to be on your toes. If you allow a 30 minute or a 20 minute discussion to become a 40 minute discussion, you have lost 20 minutes of your class. So you have to be on your toes to save and to bring it back. Yeah. Can TPS be applied for all the subjects? Can TPS be applied for all the subjects that I don't know? It can be applied for a large number of engineering and CS type of subjects. More than that, what type of questions is it amenable to? It's amenable to questions where there is this notion of multiple correct answers. When you want students, so for example, if you want to teach students sorting algorithms, the multiple sorting algorithms are there. One way of teaching sorting algorithms is to go one by one. Say that, okay, this is insertion sort, this is this sort, this is that sort, so on and so forth, and bore them to death. The other way of doing it is give them a problem, saying that, okay, you need to sort these things. Come up with your own mechanism of sorting. Each of them will come up with one of them. At the end of the day, all you have to do is give names. You have to say, okay, what you did is actually called insertion sort. What you did is actually called selection sort and so on. So that way they can get exposure. So when there are multiple correct answers, it's a good way of... Hello sir. Yeah, great. Totally I am now confused which technique I have to follow because previously we have following CLM method, creative learning methodology. I thought that that was a good teaching methodology. Now, previous class after attending this workshop, madam thought about the flipping class. That was also good. And today you are teaching about a TPS. This is also good. And I don't know which technique has to follow. Okay. So this is a good question actually. See, that's the whole point. There are many techniques. Okay. So if you say that, okay, I went to a buffet. There were many things I got confused about what to eat. Okay. It's at that level. So there are many techniques. You have to now choose what works for that problem. So like I just answered, flip classroom is good when you want students to see the content offline and engage in the classroom. Okay. Often it's combined with peer instruction where you have a set of multiple choice questions on which students vote, then they discuss and then they vote again. Okay. So that is the peer instruction method is more suitable when you want them to know the correct answer. Okay. So suppose you want to make, for example, suppose you are doing some bandwidth calculation. Okay. So you put the problem, you say, okay, what will be the answer? You give four choices. Let students vote and then have them discuss why you thought this is the answer, why I thought that's the answer. And then let them vote again. So when there are single correct answers, peer instruction is the technique to use. When you want them to learn how to design something, TPS is the technique to use. The third technique, I don't know what exactly it is meant by creative, whatever you said in the beginning. Okay. I don't know the details of that. So I can't answer for that. Yeah. Please don't mind, sir. You are getting students and we are getting customers and our shopkeeper is always keeping watch on us that what kind of activities you are doing in class. So what is your suggestion for this? Okay. So my suggestion for that is if you get your customers to buy your product, your shopkeeper will be happy. Okay. So if or you also get your peers, you know, other teachers also do that. So one way of getting your shopkeeper to agree that what you are doing is sound is to get your customers to talk to them. Okay. So I have your students talk to your principal and let your students give direct feedback to your principal about whether they are learning in your class or not. And then you will find that your principal will leave you alone. Okay. So to implement in case of PG students, because they are found to be like an image of having, we are mature and we are come to learn new things like that. And then if you tell them to think about these concepts and share your ideas, they are sitting like a stumble things. So what I found is flipping the classrooms will be better for PG students. So what is your... But see the idea is that you should use a technique that you feel comfortable with. Okay. Go beyond lecturing. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Use a technique that you are comfortable with. So TPS also, even in a PG class or when you take this class, this is bigger than a PG class. Okay. There are bigger egos involved here, but still people did their things. Okay. Still everybody executed. So it depends upon how you execute. Right. So and initial, there will be some initial hesitation. People say, what is this? She is making me do this, write something on the paper and so on and so forth. But after one or two classes, you'll find that they automatically do that. So in my class, after the first two or three classes, I don't have to say what they should do in the think phase. The moment I say think, all notebooks come out, they start writing. Okay. All right. Thank you. But one thing he wanted me so that you get involved in this TPS activity, he wanted you to spend the next half an hour, 45 minutes on constructing a TPS resource. So we have put up the constructor, the TPS constructor sheet on your Google Drive, as well as it is available via a view as well. So you can see this constructor sheet that is here. It says think phase, pair phase, share phase. And it also gives additional information on some examples specific to CS 101, which is programming the course on programming. But the slides also, the slides which currently Sridhar has used in giving the talk have also been put up on the Google Drive as well as shared with you via a view. And the slides have a lot of computer network specific examples. So the task ahead of you is for you to at any remote center form groups of three or four, sit together, discuss, go through the examples and come up with an example of think-pair-share like that as indicated in this constructor sheet. So the idea is for you to do this activity. There is a model link set up for submission of assignment specific to this think-pair-share activity, one per group. So if you are doing this activity in a group of four, not all have to submit just one person per group can submit the assignment on the model link. And I hope all of you have the model access. It is once you log in, it is there at the very front page. It specifies the date today. You just have to click on it and submit the assignment. The link is open till evening. So it is not that you finish the assignment, the typing and everything can happen when you go to the lab in the afternoon. So it is not that you have to go to the lab, upload it right away. You finish the thinking, you jot down whatever goes in each of the phases. Later in the afternoon when you have computer access, you can upload this particular assignment. So you upload basically a document, a doc or .txt, whatever works for you which will have these three phases which is the think phase, pair phase and the share phase. So those wide boxes that you see, those are the three things that I would like to see in that report that you are going to upload. So what Sridhar will do is he will go randomly through some of these submissions and discuss them in tomorrow's talk, apart from other stuff he wishes to share. So I will quickly take maybe a few questions specific to this activity. Good morning ma'am. Good morning. Ma'am I just want to say that as we are always planning our lectures and we have the main focus on completing the syllabus on time and if we plan activity like which all we were discussing and hearing, how can we keep a track of the time? So we will be deviating from the time doing an activity, fine? So maybe the students who are able to cope up, they will be able to do it, but the students who are not at all interactive in the class, what can we do for them? Even if we make them in a group of two, so that is your concern, how to deal with those students? Okay so as I said time is definitely something you have to really plan properly. So one thing that I have noticed, so one possible way of conducting this is, I mean I mentioned in my talk as well, there is a flip classroom mode where students watch videos for two hours, outside class hours and then there is a one hour face-to-face. So this one hour face-to-face, let us say you may have 10 such hours spread over your semester. You could use maybe 5 hours for something per share activities, some 5 hours, maybe 2, 3 hours for that peer instruction activities, maybe some 2 hours for demo kind of activity, whatever it is you want. So there is something that you are covering outside class hours and then within the class hour you are going to split it. So you have to choose what activity you want to do during the class hours. So one thing that I have noticed is when I have done traditional class setting versus this flip classroom setting where everything is recorded, I found that I could cover more material through the flipped class mainly because see in a classroom setting whatever I cover which is a one hour traditional classroom, whatever I cover in the class gets packed into just 20 minutes of lecture through a video. That is because there are no interruptions of any kind, I pauses are also kind of removed, it is a very compacted thing. So what I have found is when I use the videos and since there are no fixed hours students also watch them at different times during the week, they also do not feel the load. Normally in a traditional classroom setting I cover 3 hours of lecture, but when I pack it into a video, I actually give them the roughly the equivalent of 5 hours of lecture and they do not make out the difference because they are doing only 10 minutes at a time or 20 minutes at a time spread throughout the week. So you can definitely pack in your syllabus through the videos and make them watch outside the class hours that way you are assured that you are covering the syllabus and whatever is the remaining time you have which is the 10 hours that you have which is the tutorial over spread over a semester, you use that to reinforce some of the things that you have covered through either think, share or any other learning activity in the class. Does that help? Man that's very true, but the issue is suppose the student does not watch the video, at least when you are teaching in the class you are able to ask a question and make him active, but what a miss he does, how can we take care of that? So that is quite, I mean yeah there are, I don't know about your college but at IIT Bombay again people come to sleep in the class, you have to wake them up to answer a particular question, that way I felt flip classroom is again better because everyone gets to answer the question, but that said definitely I mentioned this earlier also, it's very important that students watch the videos before they come to the tutorial or the face to face session. The one way to do it is to have quizzes every tutorial session, by quizzes I am not talking about very tough quizzes, if they have watched the video they should be able to answer, it's like straight fill in the blank, multiple choice kind of very simple things, if they watch it they get it and you give 10% of the grade to this and 10% is not that small that they can ignore and it's something that can they can very easily score also, because if they just watch it they'll get 10% of the grade, so that's something you have to insist that they watch it by having this periodic quizzes part of the face to face, as well as other quizzes like Midsim instead of Midsim have more proctored quizzes also more regularly, I think that's how I tackle the problem. Thank you so much ma'am. Good morning ma'am. Regarding the segment you have said, so should we restrict ourselves to the computer networking and the file your concept or can we take any topic of our interest? I would prefer if you restrict yourself to computer networks because I mean that's what this thing is, as far as Treather is concerned I think he'll be comfortable with programming which is the CS101 equivalent which is offered to first year students, undergrad students or computer networks, it can be either of these two, otherwise I would say don't go into databases or because he will not be able to give feedback on other subjects. Okay, one more question regarding the activity, when we have large number of students in a class and we pair them up to solve this kind of activity and how much time will we get to evaluate their results and give for discussion and proceed? Yeah, so you do have to for example, there is a think phase which is common, pair phase is also common, the share phase is where you probably cannot pick up on all the students. Again what I used to do, I mean not specific to think-pair-share is I used to carry an attendance kind of a sheet of the students and in each randomly pick someone and tick them off that I had involved them as part of the sharing process. So for example, there are 50 students in the first tutorial you may pick discuss about five of these students about their share portion whatever they had done and in the next tutorial you'll pick another five which is not overlapping but sometimes I do it so that then whoever has already done it will think oh my part is done I don't have to contribute anymore. So I do pick from the same group again randomly so that everyone so you mix and match but you do ensure that over time you are focusing on all the students not just on the active students. Thank you so much. If we are teaching a theory paper which is not having so much reasoning and practical problems then how to make the lecture effective and interactive also? So I mean depends upon the subject I am sure most unless it is like hardcore map where you are doing one theorem after the other even there so think-pair-share as I said apply to many things when there are multiple solutions to a problem. For example, let's say you are trying to prove something in some mathematical kind of a thing there may be multiple approaches to the proof not just necessarily one. So you give it let them think about what are the possible approaches and then do the discussion based on that. So it is very subject specific I understand that it may not be as exciting but some of the theory subjects are also quite challenging so you really have to drive it to throw the challenge at them and make them think along multiple dimensions. Thank you. Madam my question is as we know that universities are preparing the question paper that is theoretical basically I want to know that how to encourage students that they develop their thinking logical just like a student never think that how many layers are there why is only seven layers what is the use of layers so they just know that what is layer how we can encourage students to think like that. See the more problem I mean the problem again I had mentioned this earlier is if the from a student's perspective they just want good marks with the hope that these marks will get them better jobs so that is their perspective. Now if the questions are set such that they are just not testing their learning but just testing their memorizing capabilities then naturally they have no incentive to learn because if they just mug up some things and look at the previous papers see the pattern they can give the answers and get good marks that can in turn get them some job. There is no easy solution here as I said the question papers the type of question papers have to change that will hopefully happen because there is a push in that direction professor Fatak is talking with the UGC everyone to see that the question papers are made better so there is a push in that direction but apart from it there will be some portion of the students who are excited about they may not as such want to learn but you throw some challenge at them throw some hands on learning at them they will try to pick it up and do something because there is lot of especially for a subject for computer networks which is where most people are using it the networks to send emails or browse the web if you kind of throw some challenges and design problems accordingly I think you can definitely motivate a good number of the students so whatever you deliver has to have a hands-on component in which case even though they may not learn the concept when they are doing the hands-on they will revisit the concept to learn it so I think that is the way to go about it in the interest of time I think we will stop here