 Hello, my name is Will Spencer and you're listening to the Renaissance of Men podcast. This is episode number 35 with the host and founder of the 21 convention and 21 studios, the president of the Manisphere, Anthony Dream Johnson. This is a time of transformation. As old ways fall, men are called to rise, to heal our lives, grow strong, and transcend our limitations in tribes around the world, drawing on the best of masculinity from all of time. A new day, this is the renaissance of men, you are the renaissance. How are you doing boys? Enjoying the event? Yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah, day four guys, this is it. Your last day and I really appreciate you coming out. Like you mentioned, getting it done this year, taking action, stepping up. Not just for the women, but for you guys too. This year is the craziest year in my life by far. 32 years old, 2020 is just totally bananas. So before I begin my presentation here, the state of the Manisphere, please give yourself a round of applause, being a fucking badass, getting a ticket, and getting in that seat in the middle of the pandemic. Thank you. Now without further ado, welcome to the state of the Manisphere 2020. Before we dig into the actual presentation for today, I want to highlight my 2019 speech at the first ever 21 convention in Poland. We held that last year in the summer back in July, Warsaw, Poland, beautiful country, beautiful city, beautiful people. This speech is actually titled, or that speech was titled The Manisphere. It's now at a 21 university and YouTube on our channel, 21 studios. And this is actually the screenshot of thumbnail for it. It's a great speech that I gave, very proud of it. And I think it's ever, well, to my knowledge, it's the first speech in history given on a public stage that presents an overview of the Manisphere. Hence the title, The Manisphere. And we're seeing that done before. So I really wanted to put that together for the internet and the world to see what our community is really about versus the Wikipedia bullshit where they're attacking us and defaming us, calling us racist, male, supremacist, Nazis, KKK, blah, blah, blah, blah. All the insane shit they label and they throw at, you know, friends of mine, speakers like Paul Elam and Stefano Mollin, the guys that have spoken this event and that I've interviewed before on our channel. A lot of toxic garbage, Wikipedia, mainstream media, The Atlantic, all that bullshit, right? This speech said it's straight and it's straight from the heart and you can check it out for free, you know, in 21 studios. And I gave that speech not only as a speaker at the convention, obviously, and then when we built it, but as a young man and as a son of the Manisphere. I found the Manisphere at 17 years old. I was a, it just started in my senior high school. I find the Pickupartist community, that was mandatory, into the larger community. But I've been in this community building and participating in it and engaging literally my entire adult life. Or technically, I guess, even before I was an adult at 17. I've been in this community engaging and participating in different ways, including in very abrasive ways. My behavior today is not new, especially to Socrates who's seen me since I was 17 engaging and pissing off all these older dudes. But I've been here my entire life doing it and that's unique. And it's unique, I think, not just to me, but to fellow millennials in the Manisphere who found this community when I was still very young in the 2000s, like I did, although it did begin in the 1990s. Anyway, you can check this one out on YouTube and we'll get a little more into it. But it's on YouTube, 21 Studios, 21 University. And it's a great overview of this community, a real overview from an insider and someone who really grew up with and inside this community. Though our culture lionizes leadership, being a leader is often a thankless job. Once you get dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of men working under you, it's literally impossible to be everything to everyone. Men have opinions. We have values. We have beliefs and aspirations that we want to see fulfilled in our own lives and in the organizations we belong to. But no organization can accomplish all of the goals of all of its men. It can only tackle the things it does using methods that are effective or not. And the man responsible for making those decisions of what an organization tackles and how is the leader. Yet every leader knows that even if he does the best job possible, some man, somewhere, will not get what he wants. Those are the limitations of reality. There's a problem, though. Amidst all of our understandable, I would have done it that way. We miss something important. The thing got done. And it's all too easy to lose ourselves in the subjective what could have been and miss the incredibleness of what is. I say all this not from my few experiences of leadership, however small, but from my experiences as a follower. There have been times where I failed to recognize the finished product in favor of criticism. There have been times where I didn't get my needs or goals met. And there have been times where I've said I would have done it that way while missing that the thing got done. Which takes us back to leadership, because once we acknowledge the accomplishment of the thing, whatever it may be, we're forced to confront the reality that typically one man's primary efforts brought it into existence and we have been blind to him and his sacrifices and elevated perspective and ways that are humbling to imagine. Some men stumble here and fall into debilitating self-comparison of I am not that. Certainly we've all been there at times, but in this humbled place also hides the roots of inspiration for we can recognize greatness in ourselves as men and say I could be that and get up to keep walking and men who follow that path long enough become leaders themselves. Which brings me to my guest this week. His name is Anthony Johnson, also known as Dream. 15 years ago at age 18, he started what he intended to be something like a meetup group that became a conference, then three conventions, some around the world and now a summit. Along the way, he had the idea of filming the men who spoke at his events and releasing their talks free to the world on YouTube. With that one decision, he surfaced thousands of hours of information representing the work of men that had given their lives to exploring vital aspects of masculinity. He didn't hide the content behind a paywall, though he easily could have. He gave it away to the world for free, uniting men's communities, discussions and even careers. He calls what he's built a watering hole. I think it's more like a fountain. And then I found it, or perhaps it found me. Now here we are with millions of other men and now women around the world, year after year, online and off, rediscovering and renewing what's been lost from masculinity, femininity and families. What a gift. In exchange for that gift, Anthony's taken something for himself. A tongue-in-cheek expression and reliable test of whether or not a man has a sense of humor. The title President of the Manisphere. I've always loved it. And modeling himself after his heroes Einrand, Steve Jobs and Donald Trump, I think it suits him in his brash, outspoken style. In our conversation, we discussed the difference between drama and conflict related to what's happening in the Manisphere, following the debacle with YouTubers fresh and fit and how it relates to masculine honor both individually and collectively. How easy it is for people new to the Manisphere and the Renaissance to lose sight of how much history the men in it have together. Feminism and the three genders that women see and how they're not what you might think. Anthony's achievements with 21, which I celebrate him listing because we can all get better at acknowledging our own accomplishments. And finally, a discussion of the philosophy of objectivism and how it explains why, despite Anthony's atheist beliefs, he gets along with Christians just fine. I've got to say this is one of my favorite conversations so far. We touched on many topics I didn't think we'd get to and arrived in places I didn't expect. And it's my hope in listening to it that you'll get a perspective on the Manisphere, on leadership, and on what it truly takes for a man to build and defend something of enduring value. It might not be how I would have done it, but like I said, the thing got done. So it gives me great pleasure to introduce this week's guest on the Renaissance of Men podcast, the host and founder of the 21 convention and 21 studios, the president of the Manisphere, Anthony Dream Johnson. Mr. President, sir, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today. Yes, sir, glad to be here, man. Really excited, looking forward to it. You know, I've been looking forward to talking to you because a lot of my listeners, and we spoke about this beforehand, but a lot of my listeners, they're sort of in the suburbs of the Manisphere. So, you know, they follow a bit on Instagram, maybe some accounts on YouTube, but you're a more downtown Manisphere in the center and the heart of things. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. But a lot of the guys here, and I just want to jump right into it, they hear a lot about the conflict of the drama that's going on, but they don't really have the time and I have had the chance to talk about it at length about some of these situations. And I just wanted to get right into it because there's been another thing that happened with this group, Fresh and Fit. And, you know, from someone looking in from the suburbs or from the outside, it just looks like chaos, but there's actually something really important that's going on right now in the Manisphere. And so I just want to jump in and start talking with you about that because, you know, better than almost anyone, in a way that I can't, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I like the term you created, too, the suburbs of the Manisphere. It reminds me of the term Manisphereia that some of my opponents or detractors made back in 2019. That's terrible. Yeah, I love it, though. On my presidential official Twitter account for the Dream Administration, I think the location is actually set to Manisphereia. Which I love. These people try to insult me and attack me and I'm like, dude, that's genius. Like, give me that. Give me that toy. Mine. Manisphereia. I live in the downtown Manisphere. No, no, no. I live in the Manisphere White House. You've been here yourself. It's the castle of Dream World. That's true. I call my bedroom Dreamland when I bring chicks into it and shit. Yes, I've got the Dream Library behind you. That's right. Now, as far as the drama of the Manisphere, now you do, obviously, it's not intentional on your part, but in my view, strongly, firmly, this is a first of all battle of PR and propaganda and of words. So the average guy in the Manisphere, particularly in the suburbs, guys here, like you're saying, they're more distant. They follow a few accounts and they have an interest in the Manisphere, but they're not like, I'm a Manisphere citizen. Let me go fucking do it. Send every dollar that I make in my job to different accounts that I support, right? They're not living and breathing Manisphere like I do and have for 15 to 16 years now, every day. You're heavily involved, too, obviously with your podcasts and the different projects you work on and the way you live your life. What I do want to say, though, is that when they call the drama the Manisphere, while the events and the conflicts are often dramatic, that much I can understand, when they use the word drama, they're using it in a very specific way. These are typically guys who are trying to, like the old saying, throw the baby out of the bathwater. They're delegitimizing all conflict in the Manisphere, all of it, right? 99% of it, but basically all of it. So this is false, though, because some conflict is legitimate and some conflict is false and stupid and ridiculous drama. If girls in high school are fighting over the high school quarterback, that's a stupid high school kid drama that doesn't really matter. Maybe it'll make for a funny movie or something, but that's about as far as it's going to go in life for getting serious and it's not. But in real life and out in the real world, so to speak, out in adult world, some conflict is real and some is just false, stupid bullshit left over from high school. It's just kind of the same immaturity playing out. So in the Manisphere, there's a lot of real conflict and most of it is not stupid drama. Most of it's, I would say, 80-20. 80% of what you see is actually very real and important and 20% is just minor, trivial bullshit. So the Fresh and Fit thing, for example, is a very real conflict and that is actually to my great amusement and pleasure and surprise and endorsement. The public has figured it out because these guys basically fucked up so bad. They were such massive frauds and they got busted so hard and so fast by a much bigger online community on YouTube. Like obviously the Manisphere is heavily based these days on YouTube, but the YouTube community in terms of YouTubers and personalities and communities is much bigger than the Manisphere. It's just one community among many. And these guys came down hard on Fresh and Fit and it was big enough like O'Shea Du Jackson, the leader of the Black Manisphere pointed out he thinks that that was necessary. I don't know if I agree with that or not, but that's his position and that's fun. But yeah, anyway, these guys, Abba and Preach came down so hard they brought a tidal wave of support to crush these fucking losers. Like, you know, this is your king and like I made the image of him holding up the typical Manisphere style. They are outside champions, you know, they're allies and they're helping us defeat these loser frauds. So anyway, that's been a big red pill moment for the Manisphere because I view the Manisphere unfortunately as a very, very blue pill. And I mean that not in the sense of necessarily the ideas that we have about intersexual dynamics, male-female relationships basically. Some of that's red pill, some of that, you know, maybe is not. Let's get into this. If you look at the Matrix trilogy, ironically the fourth trailer came out today as we're recording this, in the Matrix trilogy you have the red pill that Neo takes, right? And then he wakes up to allegedly the real world. And while it is the real physical world that he wakes up to, he finds on later in the second and third movie which the Manisphere seems to throw out and not really look at for any kind of inspiration or any kind of analogies. It's still, I think, very useful in the third movie. In the second movie he finds out that he's in like the sixth or seventh iteration of the Matrix and the resistance that he's fighting for is not, it's basically what do they call it, it's controlled opposition. It's there for the people who reject the Matrix who do wake up to reality but they're still not really fighting a real war. They lost that war a long time ago. So these freedom fighters are all being, there's puppets and they get slaughtered every hundred years or whatever, 150 years or something. And Neo plays a role to this. What I'm saying is there's a lot from that, like the red pill that these guys took wasn't really the red pill and these guys get the red pill from these different frauds and stuff and it's like a lot of that is this negative energy about women, you know, true or false and they don't realize that they're being fed lies from these frauds and ultimately the blue pill the blue pill is just a lie. It's a lot of lies, right? Feminist lies, blue pill lies, all that. It's false reality, it's fake and if you're getting your you know, allegedly red pill information from people who are definitively factual frauds in real life that have intent to harm you and feed you bullshit about their personal lives and whatever to increase authority and increase credibility and get more money out of you through false advertising and scamming you you're still a blue pill, you're being fed blue pills in a red pill coating in a red pill paint. A blue pill is a blue pill it doesn't matter what color it is on the outside it doesn't matter what color the pill is on the inside and the manosphere in this sense like I'm saying is a very, very blue pill but the fake and fraud fiasco as I call it, the fake and fraud disaster that's so great. It was so big that a lot of guys are actually waking up to like holy shit there's a lot of fraud going on in this community, there's a lot of losers who are pretending to be these red pill alpha males it's like I asked Herbert Tate in my interview with him down on Mammy when he was doing his workshop or his bootcamp down there I asked him, you know, what do you think about these red pill alpha males that bang old fat women and claim that they just bang stunners and in reality we've proven that a lot of them bang old fat women and that they're red, it's like it's just fucking delusional the manosphere still has a lot of clown world basically and when you peel back the layers of these internet personalities that hide behind a computer screen there's a lot of really disgusting disturbing facts there and I've been working tooth and nail myself for years and what a lot of guys call the manisters civil war since 2019 when it went hot before that it was a cold war which people don't realize they thought everything was hunky dory and it's like man you have no idea there's a lot of weirdos in this community with personality disorders and sociopaths and god complexes and all messiah complexes and all kinds of crap kind of on a rant now but it's a real fight man in this community for the truth and for the red pill and a lot of guys who claim the red pill are just passing out blue pill bullshit to make money they don't really care about, they don't give a shit about the issues they don't care about the men, they don't care about the manosphere they don't care about feminism, they don't care about the red pill none of it, it's all branding and marketing and bullshit and I'm like you like one of the few guys fighting for what's true and what's right and I get hell for it back in 2019 I spent over $100,000 cash not opportunity cost cash, kicking Royal Tomasi out of my life out of my companies, out of the company we shared as well, the red man group LLC and the 21 convention and all that the fight for what's right and you know if I was just in it for the money I wouldn't do that people who have a spine and spend a huge six figures in money to do the right thing they don't do this for fucking for fun it's painful to spend that much money on kicking out a fraud but that's what it costs to excise that tumor that cancerous hypergamy tumor from my life and then exiled him from the manosphere soon after that well you touched on something really important a couple, a bunch of really important things but first is the nuance of difference between drama versus necessary conflict and that's a really important line to draw it's like what we're talking about is this conflict is meaningful and what it comes down to in the second thing you said is do these people actually care about men why are you here why are you doing this do you have your YouTube channel do you have your say Twitter account are you a content creator because you're chasing clout, are you chasing money are you chasing validation do you hide behind a screen with some sort of avatar that's not you or are you doing what you're doing because you actually care about men because you care about society because you care about families because you want to move civilization forward that's a big dividing line and that shows up I don't have any content on YouTube I have a lot of content on Instagram and that shows up on Instagram for sure there's some really cool stuff happening there but there's definitely a lot of clout chasing and video production events production and stuff like that you take stuff into the real world it's really important to make sure that the guys who are doing this aren't just doing it for cash or aren't just doing it for a claim or aren't just doing it for themselves or to get laid or whatever but they're actually doing it for the right reasons to nurse their own traumas and stuff like a lot of it there's a whole multitude of stupid fucking reasons people do this some of it is money, some of it is whatever, clout chasing and stuff but some of it is really just like unresolved, childhood trauma, CPTSD complex post-traumatic stress disorder playing itself out in guys in their 40s and 50s that never healed these guys who are raised by single moms and shit you know about all these statistics on this that plays out in the man's sphere a lot of these guys that are grifters and frauds and losers and con artists they're really just playing out trauma that they should have healed for example man that guy is super fucked up in the head in a thousand different ways and he didn't have to be that way but he is if he had healed earlier in his life in his 20s and 30s I think you would see the role of Tomasi that people think that he is and that they want him to be so desperately they want this super powerful intellectual and all this stuff like a Jordan Peterson they want that and Rolo tries to play that role for them but he's not that guy he's a huge fraud and a keyboard jockey he's listed in the head and all kinds of fucked up weird messiah complex shit and he spends most of his life just basically fostering co-dependency and guys and building up this little army of weirdos to do his bidding and sell his books it's really that fucked up and I called this years ago a lot of people were like man you're jumping to conclusions you're exaggerating I'm like nope and every year that goes by he gets crazier and weirder as he goes through this midlife crisis in his 50s getting laid even in all this shitful women and he hasn't had a same-day license like the mid 90s like since independence day came out in theaters always the last time always a married man with a daughter for sure but why does he talk to 23-year-olds all day long about getting laid when he hasn't had an SNL himself unless he's cheating on his wife in 30 fucking years it's crazy man 25 years whatever the fuck it is he hangs out with these teenagers basically all day long on the internet and they look up to him like a father figure I'll shut up for a minute that's the really important thing that this can come down to and I discussed this in other forums as well are you willing to put your real face and your real name on the line obviously there's advantages that come with anonymity I debate this with guys all the time they say I don't want to affect my family friends or whatever and it's like okay so the problem with anonymity is that whether you hide your face or hide your name or both it allows your ego to write checks your body can't cash eventually someone's going to potentially find out who you are and then the bill's going to come do and you'll be overdrawn on your account versus making the hard decision like you like me like Jack Donovan like Tanner Guzzi like all the guys you talk of 21 it's like we all show up we put our face and maybe that means we can't just pop off and say all the things that we want to say in the moment that we're feeling but you know what it means that we actually get to make measurable progress together and stay for lack of a better word conservative with our approach but establish defensible positions to make an impact culturally as long as you're hiding behind anonymity you kind of have this blank check in a way and I just I don't think that ultimately serves men I don't think it forces them into a position of congruence because if it is your face and your name then you have to be congruent but as long as you're hiding you can be whoever you want to be behind this and I think the time is coming where we have to put that aside if we really want to make progress that's right the world and men in particular are starving for not only congruence but authenticity which I think is a separate but definitely related concept of congruency and that's what's happening with these frauds and fakes like the sharp mama Donovan Shart like the fraud father like fake and fraud all these guys right it's even worse it's the Cooper's and the rhinestones and the Troy Francis and all these people they're all losers and the more time that goes by and the more of these layers of internet bullshit get peeled back the more you see into their private lives they're whatever mechanism right getting exposed getting you know talking too much shit checks that they can't cash like the fake and fraud right I'm gonna box you I'm gonna fight you okay oh never mind I apologize I mean it's it's pathetic like I challenged both of them on the red man group like two weeks ago to a boxing match at the same time number one they'll never they'll never do it number two if they do do it I'll be happy to fight them because they're both pussies that's why they that's why they cooked so fast instantly when they when they were when a fight was a challenge was accepted because it was it was all bullshit right not just the fight stuff both of them are made of 100% grade a organic homogenized pasteurized bullshit all of it they've always been full of shit just like rollo just like all these guys right it's different per guy like they're not all identical frauds that's something I think many to understand the monastery too is each fraud is going to be a little bit different like a thumbprint right they might be led by a certain guy like the fraud father and whatnot but each one is going to have different different mechanisms and different life paths that got them to be this con artist fraud for example Donovan Schaart he really him and his wife they're like a tag team con artist thing going on she's super involved in the business rollo's wife is not involved in the business and I've told guys in the blackpill community to leave his family alone because they're not involved in what rollo does it's very much just him and people need to respect that that the fraud is on him and not on his family with Donovan Schaart and his shardy wife Miss Piggy she's super in on it she runs the social media she pretends to be him on their social media accounts giving advice to guys pretending to be Donovan she makes all the artwork where she photo shops herself and how she's fat and all this stuff and like it's sick I mean it's really it's a what is the old Bonnie and Clyde or whatever con artist tag team of man and wife you can think of our mama's boy and wife in this case yeah it's sick and that's a unique thing right that's different than fresh and fit we're two young men doing doing that in Miami together is their own tag team thing but they're not married obviously and they're not gay or anything I know I don't know Myron my heart is pretty bi I wouldn't be surprised well they were they were they had women on their podcast their video podcast and they would what make the women sleep with them to appear on camera or something like that Myron I don't know if the fat the goomba one I call the other one the goomba now the fat one he looks like a goomba look at his face I don't know which one's which honestly it's a fake CEO fresh CEO Walter okay he looks like a goomba look it up man I posted it the other day people going crazy but it's the it's the tall one the flamingo Myron Nuggins our umru froddle or whatever his name is yeah he's the one who's the Harvey Weinstein of the the Harvey Weinstein of Miami okay the one who's been weaponizing his business to basically to bang to bang women and this is not only unethical it's like it's unreal how stupid that is like that's just dumb to do at any point in American history but to do that right now in the age we live in is absolutely insane like it's a total it's a brazen lack of common sense like hey you can't come on my podcast unless you suck my dick like you got to be fucking kidding me right like what the fuck imagine imagine if I yeah and in writing too man in writing like bro how fucking dumb do you got to be yeah this is how bad it is like advice from this dude imagine if I was telling shakes you know I'm not gonna say names but there are certain female speakers we have at 21 imagine if I was like hey female speaker you can't or 22 can mention obviously excuse me you can't speak at 22 can mention unless you suck my dick and I put that in writing can you fucking imagine the field day that my enemies would have that's insane this is so retarded like how did this even happen but this is the people that get co-signed and endorsed and co-lapped with by the fraud father Rolla Tomasi the sharp mama Donovan Shart a lot of other guys even some guys I like have been on that show and I'm like dude you need to stay away from them the cancer the cancer but people don't listen until it hits the big dick of reality hits them in the face you know like fake and fraud disaster well that's the that's the thing that's why I wanted to have this conversation is because the degree of what you know of what fresh and fit we're doing you know the lies that they were telling the game that they were running the messages that they were sending to women these guys are rising stars on YouTube I never watched any of their content except for one clip I think Kevin Samuels was on there but I was really watching for him but you know these guys are rising stars the quote-unquote Manasphere and so there are a lot of guys that are doing really good really important work and for people who don't know what the Manasphere is and then they hear about fresh and fit we all get painted and colored with that brush when there are guys that are doing real work and putting their lives and livelihoods and reputations on the line to lift up other men and make meaningful progress in society and so that these guys come along and they somehow figure out some formula you know to make you know rapid forward progress at least in terms of numbers but behind the scenes they're shady as fuck like those guys need to be you know they need to be ushered out in the atmosphere dramatically right for sure they need to be exiled and I might I might get around to doing that I did that with Rolo Rolo is the only guy I've ever done that too because Rolo wasn't just a fraud Rolo committed crimes against the Manasphere as far as I'm concerned I mean that but he doxxed over 50 guys in real life their location to a feminist reporter at the New York Times and he covered it up for 8 months he had every opportunity to come clean to apologize immediately the next day the next week the next month none of that he lied to me to my face he lied to all of our speakers a lot of these guys favorite guys who are very legitimate people I've gone through that and my truth about Rolo Tomasi documentary and yeah he didn't come clean until he got busted and we kind of red handed and then he's still like then you know double down on it like a typical SJW Rolo is basically an SJW in hiding he's an SJW that's how I put the pink hat on him in some of the fraud father things he's basically like he's one step shy of a feminist even though a feminist battle with him and he attacks them he's much more closely aligned with them in his world view than people realize like Rolo for example was a he was an Hillary voter he did vote against Hillary he's public that stated that and I believe him but he also cited his reasons why he voted against Hillary that's why he voted for Trump back in 2016 I think he's actually a Bernie bro he's a Bernie supporter and he voted for Obama both years in 08 and 2012 also did I but I mean I didn't know better at the time yeah but Rolo hides this from his audience that's the thing you'll very nonchalantly say this because you live a congruent life Rolo has a huge following of Trump supporters he doesn't want them to really know about this stuff who do you think he voted for in 2020 he voted for Biden I guarantee you but if he tells his audience that or they figured this out or they figured out he's a closet socialist they don't want to hear this from the fraud father they want hypergamy and the red pill and whatever else as nurses they're insecurities yeah it comes out to an issue it comes out to an issue of congruency and this is what's really going to be really important for men going forward let's just say let's just point to the next six months we'll get into the whole sociopolitical situation in a minute but for men to be very careful about who they follow in terms of this world be careful who you're listening to vet them really listen to their content because as you say you describe a dynamic with Rolo and his audience which I haven't personally seen but I've heard about where it's like there's a real you know it's not really a cult in that way but like there's a real kind of cult leader I think there's a real idealization there's a real ego projection thing kind of going on these guys are rabid they're rabid men they will come after you like you wouldn't believe these guys they will protect him like a literal father like they will absolutely come after you right they haven't even met him they don't even know him in real life he's pretty weird and these guys send you some suave you know master player with women it's like man you have this is the exact opposite of reality you have an old aging boomer almost a boomer midlife crisis weirdo who still lives in his 20s and dresses like he's in his 20s he dresses like it's the early 90s it's like man you gotta move on dude gotta move on man gotta get healthy well this is where congruence comes in is you gotta recognize you know we all get caught up in our own in our own stuff but that's why you know men have brothers is to help each other move past that like hey you're a little caught up in something and help them move but once you start getting into the world of ego projection sort of being an icon and some sort of leader it's really easy to lose yourself in that world and that becomes that becomes very very dangerous I'll say this I want to say this too though you mentioned it's not a cult I mostly agree with you it's not literally a cult they're not literally out at a park drinking Kool-Aid they're gonna die or anything it's not quite at the level of Scientology or Religion or Scientism whatever yeah Scientism but it is a I would say it's a neocult it's a new way it's a a very modern cult I'm trying to find the word for it it's like a digital cult almost so it's it's one step shy of a real cult but in many ways it does function like a cult and it's so it's it's it's a like you mentioned the suburbs of the hemisphere it's a suburb of a cult it's not quite that level it's not quite that dangerous but it's pretty bad and it operates through modern technology through your phone computer and podcasts and shit like that these guys are really sucked into a whole world that he crafts for them and he specifically and he does this knowingly and on purpose he fought he hunts down guys who are codependent super broken super damaged this has been analyzed by guys like Pat Steadman and other people that look at what Rolo does and in many ways Rolo's you know openly talks about this right he saves lives no he hunts down guys who are super fucked up and codependent and he then fosters that codependence anymore so he takes him out of you know the feminist matrix and puts him in his own matrix of the Rolo pill and calls it the red pill to sell it and it's it's sick man how he does it I'm going to do a whole exposure on it at some point map out the whole fraudulent network of the syndicate of these fucking losers which are led by him it's the it's not even part of the monastery it's the Rolo spheres that we call it well the term that's coming to mind for me is cult of personality and and I think and this gets back to the point of you know the men that you follow speaking to the listeners the men that you follow in this world you know are they cults of personality are they serving themselves like I and this isn't to say that you know men who are content creators shouldn't make money like I'm all for monetization like obviously like you know we want to be able to do this you know full time whatever it is whatever whatever's we're into but there's a real fine line that gets crossed once a guy shifts from being in it for say men for the movement for society for some for some larger ideals to starting to be in it for their own personal interest their own their own gain and then ultimately it crosses an even deeper line when it's like is this person medicating some sort of deeper wound with this and men get trapped in there and you know we've talked about you know fresh and fit you know became quite prestigious and use that to manipulate women and it's like there's some that's a that's a wound right that's you know on some there's a lot of things going on there but that's one of the things and you're talking about you know men getting trapped in a cult of personality growl like that's just a whole bunch of wounds kind of merging together and thinking like a hive mind and what you're talking about with with Donovan and his wife you know well you played me that video of Donovan saying I'll knock a woman's teeth back into her throat that you pay that you like that's insane that's crazy like that's instant unfollow block I never followed any of his content but like for if I had instant unfollow block and that's the thing it's like men got to be real careful like who are you following what are they about what are they what are they really about before you give over your allegiance or at least your money yeah that's right Donovan that's right he was not I wish I'd known that when I made my documentary part one on him the three hour documentary but we found these videos later that were just insane I mean he's on video repeatedly not just some not just some random one-time thing repeatedly talking about beating women for disrespect I've seen it yeah it's right there like it's brazen he is the master see it's so same the frauds are different Rolo is way more clever than Donovan Donovan is like dumb and not only is he dumb he's probably even dumber than fake and fraud they're fresh and fit people he is the master as Socrates has said putting his dick in his mouth or his foot in his mouth like it's I have never seen anyone on the internet that you can clip this way where they talk about this stuff you know it's not just beating women that's like the most egregious of it but it's also like insulting fat woman and then his wife is fat and then he hides it and then we bust them and then he calls her a nine or better and a hard nine right and all this and then she's like a two and it's she looks like a ninja turtle I mean it's fucking terrible it is it is so fucked up that's why I asked when I asked Kerber Tate I asked him to his face I was like do you fucking old fat woman and he's like no I don't fucking like but you have to ask these because he's not a dating coach per se but he's a dating expert he has a coach the PhD program on you know engaging with women in very specific ways it's the pimping hose degree yeah but I this is something that you need to ask all these coaches and allegedly red pill experts it's like do you fuck old fat women because this is something that some of these guys actually do and then lie about it it would be bad enough if they did it but then at least you could argue like while he loves her or something yeah like no man you did it and then you covered it up for years and then you got busted and then you said it didn't matter it's like man get the fuck out of here bro like these people are committed con artists to the bone some of them well if you're if you're a dating coach and you're coaching men to achieve a certain set of goals with the kind of women that they sleep with and you're saying and you're holding yourself up as something that you actually aren't like that's problem number one and then problem number two is when you're confronted about it or you try and hide it problem number two and then problem three you know it's the cover up then you get the cover gets blown it's like this is the nuance difference between conflict and drama it's like no these frauds need to be exposed they must be exposed if only not for the good of all the men who are doing this work but if only for the good of their followers like look who you're giving your money to you know what's amazing is that they still you know don't even got hit pretty hard and you know he lost a lot of fans and shit his patreon for example went from like 1100 followers on patreon to 800 which is a huge drop I mean that kind of shit's supposed to basically just go up over time yeah right slowly go up over time every month you gain so many people just like youtube and podcast it's all like that for that to drop that's a tank and his youtube also has tanked a lot and shit and now he hides it and all this but even considering that people still follow him they know for a fact that he has lied to them for years and they still follow him and some of them are just hate followers and that's fun but there's still people who are like well I like what he says I don't care that he lied to me it's like man you are really naive and gullible dumb fuck like there's something fundamentally wrong with you that you can't see the egregious nature of someone lying to your face more functionally for years to get money out of you this is a big problem if anyone lies to your face that is a business enterprise of some sort you should never do commerce with them again you should never buy anything with them again you can't trust any of it ever ever again just like if a girl cheats on you like if you're married or have a girlfriend and she sucks another man's penis you should never trust her again period ever you can't it's stupid to you know one time one out of a hundred relationships will recover from that and that outlier proves the rule that you can't recover from that the trust is never repaired period dick went on your mouth wasn't my dick done like that's how that fucking works but these guys basically got cheated on by their whether it's fake and fraud or the fraud father or the sharp mama they got cheated on by their favorite cult of personality and they don't care it's no different than if they had a girlfriend who sucked the men's dick and they're like well I saw her suck another men's dick but then I asked her about it and she said she didn't and so that's okay is or whatever right like for sure but she apologized right yeah it's like man it doesn't matter bro like she it's all bullshit it's like they're faking the fake and fraud apology they apologize on their community tab is big apology for like a day then they deleted it after they apologize it's like it doesn't matter oh yeah you didn't see that oh I've been now they shot of that shit yeah yeah I think it was on their instagram too they deleted that you know but the apology is all they've been they deleted it and then later they did videos where they apologize on video and stuff it's like that doesn't people now go my comments like oh they apologize to other and preach and whatever I'm like I don't fucking care it's all bullshit PR it's PR bullshit it's if a politician gets busted and he wants to save his ass what does he do if he can if he has to if he's forced to he'll apologize to try to save his own skin it's all bullshit if you apologize after you get caught red-handed it's useless you have to apologize before you get busted red-handed for it to have any potential of legitimacy these guys are so gullible and so fucked up and so dumb or whatever I don't I'm insulting them maybe a little bit too much but there's something wrong with them where they don't understand how to they don't have the for some reason the capacity to like create adult relationships like these people are manipulators and they intend to do you harm while telling you they want to help you and help men they're just pandering to you like politicians they're pandering to get your money instead of your vote it's the same fucking thing and they're just scum like celebrities and politicians and whoever the fuck that's why I compared Donovan you know the sharp mama to Andrew Gillum who is almost became governor in Florida who really just bangs gay hookers behind his wife's back in Miami and does crystal meth busted in the news for that and it's like that's what a lot of these politicians do and it's not just politicians it's podcasters that are on YouTube it's celebrities you know they get busted for all their shit they're all a lot of them are fucking weirdos man 20% of them are cool as fuck right the Denzel Washington of the world the Keanu Reeves right these kind of people the other 80 to 90% of these people celebrities of any kind any kind of public figure they're fucking losers I don't care how much money they have I don't care what they have done in sports athletes are also fucked up right they're fucking losers they're gonna go to the grave miserable and have achieved functionally nothing they're fucking losers and you think their winner is because they're on TV that doesn't matter they're fucking losers just a lot of that no that's great and I agree there's a lot of that right now there's a lot of and what I try to try to say as often as I can is you know everyone who's a celebrity I don't care if they're a TV celebrity or an athlete or a movie star or whatever you've been able to see them all progressively turn on people and push the jab screw your freedom screw your legacy like how sad how sad is that that Arnold Schwarzenegger became one of the icons of I guess celebrity media movies film bodybuilding masculinity masculinity exactly yeah for 40 years and then at the very end of his life in his 70s when he's weak and old and lost all of his attractiveness and all his looks and all his ability to build anything really anymore he says three words screw your freedom and everything that he's ever done up until that point crumbles and ashes like he can't do anything about it because he's always been a fraud that's the people don't want to realize some of his achievements he did get the body he did earn that he had to put the hours in but I know what you mean yeah he's cognitively or psychologically he's always been a loser in some way and on a long enough timeline when push came to shove with the jab and all the mandates he caved because he's always been that way I think if you wait long enough they will show you their true colors and a lot of people are gonna be fucking losers man and that's what the that's what the Manusphere has gone through these little mini technically they're called minor public figures in a lot of cases as these people are which is a different legal class of public figure but it's very similar and it's the same phenomenon we're seeing there right the sharp mama and Donovan fresh and fit the fake and fraud they're not major celebrities that are worth $400 million right or some major politician but they're frauds it's the same exact phenomenon a much smaller scale local to a community that you care about like the Manusphere right so yeah just because the scale is different but the fundamentals are the same they're frauds most of them and we're talking about like if we were just talking about sports or you know science fiction or fantasy or something like that it'd be very different but we're talking about you know in the Manusphere and the men's movement of the Renaissance broadly men's lives are on the line here that's right you know men's livelihoods men's fulfillment men's happiness men's well-being families kids the next generation like so you have guys who come into the space and they become essentially predators they see it as an economic opportunity to prey on men's insecurities and weaknesses and need to belong and they put something out there and they hook they hook some bait and then they keep them in there and they mine them for money and this is the problem with a lot of the black pill slash red pill communities is that is that you're like this is a stage men have to go through but you have to lead them out yeah right like the red pill should transition and you know ideally into like the white pill or the gold pill or whatever like later which is a way to say your mindset should change of you know sort of you go through this awakening process you ride the dip down through the black pill for you know having a doomer mentality and then you slowly climb your way back up to a place of hope and forward positive momentum yeah but when you're dealing with a lot of these subjects it's really easy to get men into the pit and keep them down there and keep pumping them full of like negative information it's just like a big pharma I mean there's all kinds of memes and guys in the man's fair will be familiar with this I think in most cases you know it's doctors that heal you you're no longer a customer right that's right so a lot of doctors they don't like give a shit there's pill pushers or surgery pushers right which don't really heal you or solve a core fundamental problem it just treats symptoms so you keep taking more pills and coming back to buy more shit if these guys fixed you if they really like 21 convention really fixes guys like you know a lot of guys you don't have to come back you go once it's a super intense experience right it's four days five days of all day night and day just doing shit you talk to Jack Donovan's like five six in the morning one time right after being at the after being at the conference all fucking day going through all these but you had like like probably 15 hours of non-stop come conversation and educational lectures just driven into your skull right yeah it's incredible for four days in a row yeah now this is not necessarily magic but it's it's the best that I can do and that I've been able to do as an entrepreneur and as a leader is build these amazing physical events that are right in your face in real life right it's not a digital conference on fucking zoom just super retarded I hate that shit yeah and it's really powerful and it actually causes real changing guys it's not guaranteed the change ultimately is on you right and I don't save you that's why I hate about the fraud father and these other guys like I'm saving lives like motherfucker these guys have to save themselves always right always you cannot say you can help a guy save himself that's cool lending out a hand you know physically or through a podcast or and you know ideas and education and books that that is real but where it goes off the rails is when these guys into like rollo intentionally fostered this co-dependency and shit and he says I'm saving lives saving lives right all coaches in the monastery get this right every speaker I've ever talked to that has any kind of particularly with dating relationships you know you get a lot of guys who are down and out from a relationship or a marriage and they say you save their life and I'm I get this too from Tony I'm like no dude I I don't even know you I didn't save your life you save yourself and this is another thing by the way from the matrix trilogy that these guys don't fucking put enough stock into right you get this kind of co-dependency in the second movie from this little the little guy you kind of as a character arc to which improves about the movie but he comes up to neo he's like you save me or whatever and what does he say right I didn't save the kid you save yourself for some reason all these guys who are obsessed with the red pill of women they throw all this other important shit these are important philosophic statements right that are made later in the movie trilogy they throw them out the window like none of it matters it's like no this really does matter these guys don't save you save yourself man and if you think they saved you you have more issues to resolve like they can't save you like you have to save yourself man always and anybody who who latches on to that shit latches on to these guys that's weird that's weird and it's predatory and it's wrong and it's unethical I think it's really hard for a lot of men to accept that they have the power to save themselves like it's really easier to take this saving mentality and to project it outwards to someone else and say that something that you outward person did save me than it is for them to accept that no you actually saved yourself maybe I facilitated it I gave you information but you you did all the work and it's really hard for men to accept that about themselves like wait I have the ability to save myself because then that means they're so much better than they've been led to believe and that's real cognitive distance for men it's like no you're much more powerful and you believe look at what you've done for yourself and it's hard to get men to connect those two dots but it's really important that they connect those dots and it's important for us for people I actually open to acknowledge it because if we don't do it then it keeps going indefinitely right and doesn't get it doesn't really change but by speaking up about it and addressing it directly and calling it out for what it is I think it actually does move the needle solely over time it wakes guys up to it wakes guys up everything they're already woken up and they're not like I said you know earlier in the podcast like these guys basically take these blue pills but they're wrapped in red paint and they're not red pills they're just fake it's just more bullshit there's a couple more layers they have to go through like you're saying to with the black pill and the red pill and the gold pill I like the gold pill kind of Jack Donovan stuff I don't know if you coined that but I know it really reminds me of Stay Solar and all that kind of shit like yeah that's really taken off well this is you know this is great because I wanted to transition to talking about the convention because you know what Rollo and Donovan and the fresh and fit guys are doing is as a result in many ways you know as it sounds like of although I would like to say one thing just one thing in defensive role just one thing I read his new book the book on religion and I really liked it and at the end of the book he talks about his own particular views on God and marriage and he comes out as saying very openly that he's a religious man he's a Christ follower is what he says and he's in favor he's in favor of marriage and the reason why I bring that up is because the way out of the red pill mentality the way out of the red pill black pill mentality is to recognize what you know to build a happy and healthy family to use the information now to create prosperity as opposed to just kind of like you know continuing to stick a finger or poor salt in the wound because it's profitable to actually lead men out into life that they in their hearts genuinely want to lead and that's what I'm happy about the 21 convention the way that you've transitioned things from what started out as a pickup conference which was very appropriate for its era but the times have changed and you've moved the conference with it but I did want to just say that one thing that you know there is some congruence in role that's come out recently at the end of his book how that shows up online I have no idea but having read that I'm like okay I respect I respect that he wrote that down so to my my response it is what it you know I've no problem with people defending him like this and in specific ways like Herbert Tate of also said that roller claims to be a theory guy not an application guy and this and that and on some level that makes sense I still don't give a shit though because Rolo is that fucked up whether it's Tate defending him through the theory acknowledgement which is which is on some level technically accurate like I get what Tate is saying that and I get I also understand why you're saying this and technically on some level you're correct based on the face value what you're reading on the the book and this and that Rolo is much more fucked up than all this stuff so for example even the theory that Rolo promotes as a theory guy I'm just a theory guy I'm a writer you know blah blah blah it's all bullshit he's a plagiarist is what he is and he larps as a theory guy which really makes him like a keyboard jockey so it's multiple layers of fraud and that's why he's so much more clever than like Donovan and his fat miss piggy wife now with the religion stuff what I believe Rolo is obsessed with Roosh he's extremely jealous of Roosh and Jordan Pearson I ever see text messages that can back this up extensively now what I want to say here is that Rolo is actually he always tries to he follows closely what Roosh does and he tries to jump in that bandwagon because he thinks I think in his head maybe he's right Roosh is even better at him at marketing than Rolo is and Rolo likes to follow what Roosh does I believe that Roosh is a troubled mixed individual I'm not saying he's a fraud per se but I think he has mixed motivations for what he does that people don't understand what I mean by that is I don't really think he's a Christian I think he's actually pandering and I get a lot of heat for this people get mad at me for saying this but I believe this so does Rolo by the way Rolo's credit Rolo said this and Rolo's not always wrong as much as I don't like this guy and I know he's a scumbag deep in my heart in my mind he gets to nail the head sometimes stuff right so at least that much I can give him some respect and I think he knows out some things that are important in this world and they're correct right for whatever motivations he has for saying them now with Roosh I think what Roosh is doing is Roosh left the mana sphere so to speak and the pickup community and all that and he's tapping into new markets and that's why he was able to delete all of his old books and stuff off Amazon this and that he didn't carry them because they weren't selling he had to find a new market and a new kind of protection circle and that was Christianity and religion and as much as they're on the deep powered side of the culture war I think he found fertile ground there to sell books which is what he's doing constantly for years now he just changed his messaging and changed his market Rolo is not abandoning he's not copying what Roosh does identically but he does he's heavily inspired so to speak plagiarizes maybe he plagiarizes these multiple layers of motivations and marketing that the Roosh does so Roosh got into the religion angle and Rolo wanted to fall suit that's the purpose of the fourth book it's to tap into that tradcon market and sell them on the whole hypergamy cult thing through the books so I realized people are going to mean me for saying this but I really believe this is what he... I don't think Rolo is a Christian, I really don't I think this is his pandering BS he really isn't, he's not a Christ follower he's not non-denominational he just kind of says it because that's what he thinks is the best position for him in the Manisphere to say because most of the Manisphere is Christian we did a poll in it recently and it was 58% Christian and I'm pretty sure that's a pretty good representation in the Manisphere but yeah, if Rolo came out as an atheist and think he'll lose book sales, that's why he doesn't do it I think Rolo is actually kind of a dark fucked up objectivist like me I'm not a dark fucked up one but I think he's actually an objectivist for example, he stole the MPOO the mental point of origin from Ayn Rand's rational egoism I noticed this years ago like 2016, 2017 and for years I pestered him about it I'm like hey, we should do a show on Ayn Rand on an objectivism for your religion show, this and that he would frequently use the word objectivism on his blog for example in a lower case way, which is really weird because this is formal philosophy that has millions of people involved with it and I realize like man, his MPOO is really similar to irrational egoism, it's almost identical and I would talk to him about this and he'd always ignore it he would change it like over text message, he'd just change the subject every time I probably have four or five instances where I confronted him about objectivism and these different issues that he was so similar to with Ayn Rand and he just always skirted the conversation like man, that's really weird bruh so let's get this gets back to the congruency point and this happened these are areas where I'm relatively new to the Manisphere as I've said I discovered in 2018 because of the Rich Cooper talk Be Better from 21 convention which I guess was in the 2017 talk it came out so this is all really new to me so comparatively anyway so you know sometimes I get to discover that okay there's more going on beneath the surface that I get to learn like for example I've just gotten to a whole thing about cryptocurrencies versus Bitcoin a whole layer of complexity that I wasn't really aware of, what's going on there between Bitcoin and shitcoins like oh okay I get that but that was my graduating to a next level understanding so I think one of the things that's really easy to lose sight of and probably a lot of men who are probably also in the suburbs of the Manisphere is that you know a lot of these guys have long term histories with each other you know like the going back to like the pickup days were in the late 90s so it's been over 20 years and the red pill forums on Reddit and stuff like that there's a lot here that's kind of opaque or invisible and a lot of guys are new right they come in you know some guy he just he's not a creator he just isn't in the suburbs of the Manisphere he's kind of interested in certain speakers Kevin Sandmills, Coach Gregg, Terence Poff, whoever right they're here for two years and they're like they think that they had this very naive child like view of the Manisphere that the Manisphere is just what they've seen the past two years and in reality it's like 25 years plus at this point never mind the proto-Manisphere from the 80s that you talked about we've talked about on red magic and stuff it's a really old community it's not really old I mean feminism is way older by comparison but as an emerging movement as I see it it's pretty old it's a couple decades at this point there's a lot of people involved there's been TV shows bestselling books different media things pop off they make them great again the red pill documentary like the Manisphere is much bigger than these guys realize and it's much older and it's much more complex and there's a lot of political maneuvering that they don't understand they don't want to believe Rouge and Rolo getting it tapping into the Tradcon markets through the books guys don't want to believe that they'll say oh that's a conspiracy theory Anthony is jealous of how we don't have a genius for all of us blah blah blah dumb bullshit right and I'm telling these guys straight to straight blunt you know hard core facts to their face and they don't want to hear it just like when they find out Donovan married an old fat woman and lied about it for years they don't want to fucking hear it you can show it to their face and they just will deny the reality right in front of their face just like fake and fraud they lost 50,000 subscribers I'm sure 50,000 more of us become hate followers but there's still a 300,000 subscribers to follow them they don't care that they got lied to for a long time aggressively and egregiously to get money out of them they just don't give there's sheep that want to be sheep basically they're called Mano sheep well the last thing that's really important about that though is for the men that are listening that are and for the men beyond even who are looking for a way to navigate through through the space you know it's important to me personally because I need to make sure that I'm personally disavowed from these you know from these from these frauds to the extent that they that they show up so I look at the stuff it's important for me to know that so I'm not like re-sharing someone's content you know that they're not I mean I do a lot of I tend to do a lot of work with the stuff that I really commit myself to like am I really going to put my name behind this because I spent a lot of time you know cultivating it but you know for men who go navigating through this world to be careful and recognize that there are predators there are frauds you know there are there are guys who are in it for the wrong reasons like as hard as that is to say and there are guys that are not congruent and there are guys that hide and there's all kinds of motivations and I think that there's there I know for a fact there's something very special happening between men right now in terms of you know the Renaissance really coming together the monastery really coming together something very powerful is going on but in that it doesn't mean we need to not be careful about who we follow and who we give our trust to Mike Cernovich used to be a much bigger part of the mannosphere with this danger in play or whatever blog and gorilla mindset years ago and he called it flat out on twitter one time he I think was on twitter he said Mike Cernovich he's this big guy on twitter he's like almost a million followers or whatever and he said the mannosphere is the ghetto of the internet and he didn't mean that in some sort of I think he number one he's at least at that time he was right and I'm trying to make it a lot better and certain other guys are trying to do that too but yeah exactly there's a reason he said that though like this wasn't some random comment it wasn't designed really as an insult it was his observation of this community the ghetto of the internet because it is filled with fucking predators who prey on men who are really wounded and looking for answers in a world that hates them it's just a sick cycle of like people of narcissistic personality disorder praying on guys who are hurt and have a trauma and it's unresolved and these guys they stay stuck right it's the nursing they mentioned the nursing of the codependency these weird motivations from these guys that have their own unresolved trauma like all this shit and there's propaganda wars and there's PR stuff and there's frauds and there's one of the minute it goes uh political maneuvering really is what they need to understand just like politicians they fight with each other they maneuver for cloud or for votes or whatever in different geographies that's a lot of what happens in the mannister man that goes up in this bitch like straight up dude yeah well thank you for thank you for saying that that really lands for me and and I've seen that Cernovich quote or certainly heard about it and I always I didn't interpret it that way I interpreted it as you know um this kind of not in the not in the literal sense of ghetto in terms of like predators and stuff like that but that you're painting this picture that there are guys that are taking advantage of of of men looking for answers yeah like that's that's real I mean I think I want to say too I think I think one of the reasons to ghetto is because it involves sex and it's kind of like this dirty taboo thing that mainstream culture doesn't want to deal with at all no one's dealing with mat and with masculine and femininity outside the mannister really right yes correct I mean it's the churches have been cucked the universities have been cucked uh even at most conservatives you know don't want anything to do with it they don't give a shit they're not interested like the mannister is the one community at the one movement in the fucking world in the west dealing in a useful powerful way assertively with masculinity and femininity and I like to talk about later why that what that means we've talked about that previously too but anyway the sex element is I think really what makes it so like deranged and like a ghetto and like pick up sex you mean like pick up art okay pick up part of stuff yeah but even even divorces no one wants to deal with it right like if you if you're a man and you get divorced today you know and you go through the family court system and you get wrecked no one wants to hear about it oh sorry that happened to you bro good luck better luck next time it's like they don't want to hear about it yeah and it's like man this is a this is a shit show bro like this whole none of it all this is fuck no fault divorce 86 percent of custody cases get awarded to women men pay lifetime alimony in Florida and California and other major states like this is all retarded irrational nonsense and no one even wants to deal with it or talk about it equal shared parenting got you know wrecked by the feminist that's a war on feral left the feminist movement back in like 70s or whatever yep yep yep this equal shared parenting is too much of quality like default 50-50 people don't know what that is so but yeah it's game of thrones up in this bitch and I wanted to say too that's why roller hates me as well there's basically like I see I view the monastery as kind of like a 20 60 20th kind of thing so you have the bottom 20% which are like super predator frauds like guys who are really intentionally knowingly hurting men on purpose while pretending and proclaiming the one help them you have the 60% in the middle which is a mixed bag it's it's honestly it's a spectrum and it's complicated like Kevin Samus for example I think is a pretty good dude I think he did talk about the fake and fraud disaster but he did so indirectly so it's like how it's like he is not a fraud but he also didn't go swinging out against frauds and call them out when I think he should have and that's what I would do in his position that's what I do right mm-hmm then you have 20% who are hardcore anti-fraud like fuck these losers burn them to the ground let's move the manager forward so yeah anyway that's our role hates me though it's a 21 convention in 29 studios are basically competing power structure and the only organized power structure in the man is fear that it's pushing it in a positive direction the roller sphere is the opposite end of that bell curve and that's why he has to he's been trying for years to destroy 21 convention since he got involved with it if he's gonna take it over destroy it the red man group is a tool for that and the guys I work with these days that's why he fights with all these people right if he can't control them then he tries to destroy them or remove them exile them from the manager himself his fight with Sean Smith is an example that that he had about a year and a half ago Sean such a great dude too well let's let's let's let's talk about this competing power structure because it all fits together you know in this really important way which is the best way to see if someone is congruent or not with the things that they talk about the things that they promote and the content they create is to meet them in person yep you know it's a you can't hide behind a you know an anime avatar or you know or anything like that like this is the whole online it manifests as like post physique you know it's okay you're gonna argue about something or argue about some health related post physique you know so let's see who you really are and so you know I wouldn't say that 21 convention is the post physique of the man is fear but you know there is something really powerful to the the the men who are digital content creators showing up in person to be seen on stage live it in person nothing to hide behind and the men who who are want to learn from them showing up and showing their level of sincerity yeah that's really really important in an increasingly isolated and digital world and you've been doing it for 15 years which is and to a bigger degree than ever which is incredible it's the longest running and the large largest man is fear event in history nothing else is even close at this point nothing not even close yeah there's literally nothing which is sad and I wish there was you know more to it than this and there are other events that pop up from time to time but they all fizzle out some of them are lately have been intentionally designed to harm 21 you know roll to Massey for example tried his rule zero summit the the cruel zero summit we call it he tried it twice in 2020 and the first time was designed to harm our spring events it was put on it was scheduled for the week before our events to disrupt attendance but but it got worse because then he had to reschedule it because of covid that's understandable you put it and they moved it to guess which dates the exact exact same dates as 21 summit after we announced right finally a lot of attendees who are on the fence between the rollo the civil war basically we're like okay Anthony has a point because this is this is no longer passive aggressive this is like overt this isn't the week before your event it's the exact same days yeah and I got a lot of yeah I have the posters for it they end up cancel on that that was a shit show too because then they canceled that event and I have the video too it's still it's still public roll to even take it down I sold I've got a download anyway different backup rollo goes oh we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna take care of you guys we're not doing the event in October now on the exact same dates as 21 summit right we're gonna we're gonna do a digital conference we got you covered he didn't say we have we're gonna offer refunds and if you want to keep your ticket we're doing the digital summit we got you covered bro we're gonna we're gonna reduce the cost of our conference by forty thousand dollars down to fifty bucks for a zoom call and we're gonna keep all your money and the reason I did this is because they blew all the money they collected the tickets individually per speaker the money and then I think two of them weren't able to they basically blew all the money and they couldn't even do refunds so Cooper so Cooper and rollo were like fuck fuck fuck fuck what do we do it's the scam dude the scams exactly man this is all documented bro and nobody talks about it nobody talks about it man it just the scams go on and no one speaks up and if I speak up I get fucking screamed that so I do it anyway I get screamed at the screaming like cry more but that's why I appreciated the email maybe a couple weeks ago saying you know if they're if covid restrictions affected people's travel plans and they weren't able to make it that you know that you know you would be offering refunds he said I don't know what you were your exact words are but I really like how you it's the email you said you know I'm hard core but I'm not a dick or something like that I said I'm a hard ass but not an asshole that's right exactly and like that's that's the right way to handle it's like okay yeah I do my job but I recognize look if you can't make it you can't make it I'm not gonna take your money and blow it on this conference and then you know oh here's I got you bro like thanks a good looking out bro appreciate it yeah so what I mean by that is I'm extremely committed to our events and when you buy a ticket I expect you to be committed to attending but I'm not crazy and if it's illegal for you to travel of course I'm gonna give you a refund or whatever we want to work out whatever you want to want to do you want to keep it for next year cool if you want to get refund okay fine like I'm not like I'm not gonna say I got you covered bro we're gonna cover you with a zoom call because that's what frauds do and I'm not a fraud I hate frauds with a passion I want to destroy all of them all of them mm-hmm it's it's it's necessary I want to burn them all at the stake you know figuratively speaking figuratively speaking in Minecraft yeah yeah I mean that's that's that's really really important because that's what that's what all this is about you know what are what are we all talking about as men if we're not talking about integrity congruency what are we doing we're not doing anything you know I look to jack Donovan a lot of this stuff right whether he agrees with my moves or not sometimes he does sometimes he doesn't and I'm fine with I'm fine with that I don't expect anyone to follow me blindly or to endorse everything that I do that's fucking ridiculous right I'm a controversial figure that has controversial shit even the people around me the closest I expect them to have disagreements and speak up but I look strongly to jack's tactical virtues strength courage mastery and honor if these guys don't have honor you're not a man you're a fucking loser I don't like you get away from me and you need to be exposed so that's a you know you still have strength courage mastery but honor honor is an integrity this is really very similar issues and if you're low integrity piece of shit who rips man off while pretending and proclaiming you want to help them I'm gonna find you and burn you to the ground because you're sick and you're fucked up in the head you don't deserve to be on in the hemisphere piece of shit that's why I love when these guys I mean that's the great thing about fake and fraud is they just fuck themselves like I was working on I was starting to plan an outline for exposing them you know and John Anthony's been doing that too but I don't have to do that now because they already had a much bigger shit show than I could ever caused in my own it's wonderful you know maybe when I was there in Florida we talked about how I think it's really important what you're doing because you know someone someone like me or someone like Jack or Tanner whoever you know or Sean even you know these are guys that you know they're busy they're building right and that's a very positive thing and so are you but who's going to who's going to have the courage to take on I guess we might cause it a rear guard action I don't know who's gonna watch the flank right right and that's really hard that's really hard for men to do for creativity and for looking this because you know we're under such intense scrutiny but someone's got to watch the flank and that's not necessarily a great or easy or easy job it's a dirty job someone's got to do it man well someone does have to do it for real for real because you know to your point about honor I think honor is one of the hardest things for men to cultivate that strength and courage and mastery like those seem pretty obvious but the notion of cultivating honor can be quite difficult because you know you have a lot of integrity and that gets to you know to have you right of the wrongs of your past do you do what you say you're going to do etc but as men rise in honor they begin to see the men around them it's like oh gosh that these men don't really have a whole lot of honor honor is very black and white it's very binary much more so than a continuum courage exists on a spectrum right I think it has intensities of expression mastery is another one right and strength but I think you're honest it's most issues are not morally gray they're black and white men they're right and wrong there is good and there's evil there's still there can be everything is context specific so there can be complicated issues in life I understand that sure you have a lot of cases of men especially when it comes to masculine masculine honor right among men you're either honorable or you're not and you know you're right you're right yeah it's a thing and it's it's there's not a lot of room for bullshit in it right the other stuff can much as you can cultivate it and there's different levels of it and the honor those like yes or no and a lot of guys I got this from my grandma grown up and my grandma was fucking savage super hardcore Catholic she barely even spoke English she's from Croatia but you know she in many ways she was the parent the best parent that I had like the only parent for me and my sister and she was super committed and devoted to her religion and that and also my dead grandfather that I even got to uh she was like maybe 60 she prayed to him every night that I ever saw her in my life every night for hours every night hours and hours and hours now some guys would say off a widowed and the man is fair I don't actually mind that maybe that's part of it that would make sense right but it was more it was obviously to me more than that because it was very religious she would pray for him in addition to other prayers and stuff she would say for hours every night like like meditatively and that intensity that commitment as always inspired me and driven me in my life to be the kind of guy and the man that I am that is like super super committed to honor and integrity and being doing this stuff the job that no one wants to do watch the regard right be the villain be the bad guy that's all these enemies these frauds and managed to paint me as right they you know they come after me and try to destroy me and all the shit fuck them like oh Anthony's a bad guy the villain while he's a drama queen he's always at the center of drama because they're always attacking me like I told you on the show everyone watch listen to show can check it out Richard Cooper attacked me personally in my company in my event in February 2019 it came out of nowhere there was no warning it caught a lot of fans by surprise call me by surprise right this is fucking bizarre February 2019 the video is still on his channel it's called an important announcement now people think I attack him and I do make fun of him but I didn't start that fight he started that fight Rolo same thing Rolo publicly attacked me in June 2019 on his blog right he defamed me this is this is like I'm speaking legally here and maybe a little bit corrective actions for that in the future but he attacked me I did not start that fight and the guys don't understand this because these guys wage propaganda wars against me Donovan same thing Donovan shard the shard mama attacked me in January 2021 I documented this one much more extensively when the documentary so I wanted to cover mass I'm like I'm sick of this PR bullshit these people attack me and then I punch them back in the face digitally and they cry victim like little like little bitches like little feminists Rolo Cooper right oh I think he's such a bully he's such a drama queen like motherfucker you start this shit just like fake and fraud right it's just like them they attacked abin preach they're like all right boys bow up oh we're sorry we apologize oh we're gonna keep delivering great content to our fans now so now you got busted for being a bitch you started shit and then you wrote a check you couldn't cash Donovan wrote multiple checks he couldn't cash I was it was very hard for me I just started attacking them right it was very much in nature just like I want to strangle him on the internet yeah but I was like I'm gonna let me try something new right let me step outside my comfort zone you know be President Johnson instead as the president dream and then he just kept going I'm like right now he has to just be destroyed fuck this loser and he need to be exposed anyway I knew a little bit how much of a fraud he was but the more I dug as I as I told guys on on YouTube since then the more I dug the more I was like holy shit like I thought he was like kind of a fraud much less bad I get into it I was like oh man this is a shit this is a shit hole like oh fuck it was a rabbit hole to turn into a shit hole a shard hole shard hole a lot of guys don't understand this because like so much came out in the documentary about the sharp mama Donovan at once they thought I knew all this for years I'm like I knew I knew a little bit like me and the speakers you know about a half a dozen of us we knew certain things and I was always at the center of the conversation like hey I have some problems with this guy what do you think and I'm like well let me tell you because the problems are worse than that but I didn't I wasn't able to connect all the dots and find more shit until I did the final research for the documentary that's what people don't understand as a timeline I didn't know all this for years I knew like a little bit and then I learned more over time and Donovan was basically having multiple speakers hold the bag of his dirty lies and different different speakers had access to different information and none of them were the center of it but me and then I'm stuck holding the bag of all this shit and then I look in the bag and there's even more shit I'm like oh my god and then we find the videos of him talking about beating women and all this stuff and I'm like oh my god like it's just endless it's an endless shithole of Donovan chart well any guy who would say you know I'm gonna knock a woman's teeth back into her throat as in punching her in the face any man who would say something about it on video like and this wasn't like a this wasn't like video from like the 1980s or something on some VHS 2020 exactly it's like so any guy who would say something like that in 2020 and they're not even those comments are not even in the context of self-defense right which would still be a little bit like yo man keep it chill bro like but I could at least understand that this is not in the context of self-defense it was for a woman disrespecting him right punching these women bragging about it repeatedly different women right and then men too that didn't even exist right he's clearly like a little kid that got bullied who just lashing out behind a camera like he's some badass like larping like oh fuck dude no one who can fight talks like this just like these guys fresh and fit we talk about I'll box you bro my but I think the goomba one the short one he's like yeah my boxing skills been getting good lately it's like man like and then he's challenging people to fight preach preach was actually a professional formerly a professional martial artist like that's not a bouncer too for years yeah totally yeah and you just look at the dude's arms he's got ham hocks for forearms you know what I mean it's like probably not going to want to box that I mean notice cobertate is like a world champion kickboxer multiple times over he doesn't talk like this of course not anybody who can John Fitch another guy in the monastery he's that he was in the MMA fighter for 20 years he just retired I think he doesn't talk like this anybody who can fight doesn't talk like that they're not stupid enough to do that because you don't know what people have knife gun or even more training than you do you don't fucking know you could die fighting is dangerous man that's right well it on my podcast a couple weeks ago I had this um he's a writer named Jeff liver on and he's trained in combatives so not just martial arts in terms of like a dojo or a gym but like actual self-defense in person he's like you always got to pretend that the person has a weapon yeah there's more he said there's three rules I think and the first one is you have to you have to assume the person has a weapon that there's more than one and that they want to kill you and that's your approach and so if you have that mindset you don't have the energy to be walking around like I'm gonna kick your ass bro it's like no no you don't understand how this really works because once you actually encounter real violence you recognize that it's much much more serious it's how little kids think because when you're a little kid when you're 10 years old no one has a knife or a gun probably I mean it depends where you live but probably no one has a gun right let's hope not on the playground and if there are problems among the kids or they're getting abused at home these kind of things will come out but it's when you have momma's boys like the sharp momma talk about this in their 40s and stuff or in their 30s like the fresh and fit or fake and fraud yeah it's just it's absurd childish behavior that's like 30 years past the due date like dude you're not 12 you can't talk like that anymore man this isn't gonna come down you don't know what they it might not be fists coming I might be a knife and like and you maybe you have talked a lot about this in my life that come to convention and this guy's I know on a personal basis friendship and they've always said as a bouncer the number one thing you look out for is not even a fight or even a gun it's a knife like knives cause like massive damage they're super easy to conceal they're super cheap and any dumb fuck piece of shit can puss one out and ruin your life or kill you absolutely all this stuff yeah so I mean so I guess the thing that makes it difficult to for me just hearing about it is the epithets you know what I mean like sharp momma and you know like I understand you know well like it was like there's a way of like approaching these things there's a lot of different ways that different men would go about handling some of these some of these you know subjects right you know like there would be the quote unquote presidential I don't mean this is in the way like president of the ministry where it's like well Donovan etc and speaking very clear and measured but you go very hard at these guys and I think for and I think when so when you know someone else says in a more reserved tone like oh he's a bully or whatever the fact that you take such an aggressive tone with these guys you know it's it makes it difficult to know which side to choose let's let's put it that way right I can understand right I can understand that but I do take a presidential tone but it's a very Trumpy presidential tone very inspired but yeah it's on purpose yeah yeah I love it it's a lot of fun too I mean I really enjoy it like making fun my my strategy basically is to mock ridicule and make fun of these losers and every creative and historical way possible and I do think long-term short-term and long-term it's very funny I'm the best by far even my opponents have commented like how good the memes are they're the best memes in the hemisphere by far some of the internet you know yeah funny because they I can I can plug the best part is I can reuse the memes and plug new frauds into the old ones like with Donovan we put his head up on his too but then I changed out from Socrates in the background of John Anthony because it was more relevant but other way you know it's very useful though that's one of my favorite parts so it's just like like looking back on old frauds like oh we have a new fraud plug in plug in the new head video guy in my photoshop I'm like get that head this you know get this shit lightning eyes on here and here like it's a lot of fun we have a lot of fun and then the company doing this man it's the best part it shows and that's the thing I think that that's the part that isn't necessarily obvious that doesn't really surface is that it's a chosen it's a chosen strategy you know it's not like it's not like flying off the handle or whatever like okay this is it's a reflection of who you are it's a reflection of your personality but it's something that you you choose to do as a strategic approach to a problem as opposed to some sort of like you know wildly striking out in all directions kind of thing and then much more Tony Bruno called this out publicly and this is in my Donovan shark mama documentary the shark report is actually the title of it initially it's in the video just kills me just kills me so I can't help it man once it is sharp sharp is so easy off the tongue well it's just you know this is messaging this is branding and messaging right you just keep repeating the same message plus he's like fat for most of his life so he looks like big mama you know and you said caching checks he actually was convicted of check fraud or something like that right oh yeah oh repeatedly yeah multiple times yeah I rested for that shit yeah identity theft financial they didn't all that stuff yeah but Tony Bruno commented and I appreciated it very much he said that Anthony doesn't react he responds and he's right I waited almost two months to respond to Donovan to do anything right they're initially I ramped up with some memes but these weren't like these were important but not super serious people didn't understand why I was making them right but they led to the documentary and then everyone was like that's there was a lot of comments about this hundreds people were like I get now when Anthony was making the memes and posting them I didn't understand the antagonism I didn't understand why they were funny but it got everyone's emotions riled up they got everyone's attention and then I dropped the bomb and it you know went viral and fucked up this whole life by exposing him with facts and evidence and for the fraud that he is also though you mentioned so strategically um bombastic and aggressive with these guys this is true it's part strategy it's very intentional it's also an alignment though with my value hierarchy and I think I think fun is an underrated value and like for real I mean I remember I remember Trump talking about this as president like in like 2018 he would say this more frequently and people realize if you can somehow search I'm sure someone has done this like everything Trump's ever said he uses the word fun quite a bit for president and he would be out talking about something serious but he'd be like yeah we're having a lot of fun here at the White House today doing this and that with this executive order and it's like that is this is number one hysterical number two though this is actually very real and I think it's one of the ways he's been so effective is by maintaining the value of fun in the middle of doing something very serious very serious battles going on in the world geopolitically right but he still has fun and fun is positive and it's hopeful and it's optimistic and it's it's side of human life that we need to keep you know pretty high up the value hierarchy right it's dark fucking more like Ivan Throne says but there's still room for fun and making fun of losers and it's really effective it's effective to communicate this the memes right it's effective to communicate messages the picture says a thousand words a meme says ten ten thousand my video says a hundred thousand or whatever that's really interesting because I I know that in my own approach to my own personal brand there's a lot of gravitas in it and I know that a lot of guys choose that stance and I think that's a great stance but I think in choosing a stance of gravitas which has sort of a universal appeal it's really easy for that to become too weighty and for not to be fun enough because you kind of have to let it go but then how do you let how do you let it go and still maintain a masculine stance while having fun and that's you you have some fun though you have like lightning eyes on your twitter and profile stuff that's that's that's fun though that's funny it is fun it's fun yeah so it's the crown yeah yeah exactly exactly yeah that's that's dope as fuck I like that that's part of my life thanks you feelings mutual I mean your lightning eyes and all the 21 stuff that you do is really really great it shows character and personality though it shows me that you're not a fucking that you're not like you know super it as much as the man is for deals with serious issues they should still it should be a masculine space what is what I'm trying to do I'm trying to make it from an effeminate beta male blue pill space to a space that much has a much higher degree of masculinity like really as a community like collectively push that in a strong masculine direction and fun is part of that men should be should fuck with each other especially with frauds but even in general we should fuck with each other and just do funny shit that's part of what locker room stuff locker room talk locker room banter and fucking around right even if even you know when I grew up playing football we'd fuck with each other and hit each other with towels and fuck around and shit you know play pranks on each other and shit that's that's for people you like never mind people you don't like like the fries you know be much more aggressive with them and stuff well that's one of the that's one of the the ways that if you read my newsletter that's one of the ways that men bond is if we pick on each other we give each other shit you know and that's like that's like the getting to know you phase and I think it's actually is it Warren Farrell or Jordan Peterson or both of them they both talk about that they both talk about how important that is for men to kind of feel each other out in fact it was on their podcast together they got into it you know here to super distinguished profession professors you know doctors academics you know men and their what Jordan Peterson's in this probably early 60s or mid 60s and Warren's in the 70s talking about the important of stuff like locker room banter and guys picking on each other for sussing each other out and seeing where men's weaknesses are like do you take yourself seriously or not we well we talked earlier in the podcast about the conflict in the hemisphere and I talked about how guys that basically is drama to delegitimize all conflicts and throw the baby out of the bathwater that's stupid for any community in any organization like this is dumb like there's going to be legitimate and illegitimate conflict but also what in the hemisphere what's happening is that because it's a blue pill space where guys get lied to with things they think a red pill but they're being fed to them by blue pill frauds these beta males right these are feminine fucking losers and gamma males the basically all these beta males are conflict avoidant and the conflict scares them that's that's another factor and another reason that they want to get rid of all conflict they don't like it they're scared of it they can't have a conflict not for men not they don't like seeing it they can't deal with the personally they don't like seeing it politically right it's scary to them and they don't like it from women women who are confrontational with them and should test them that's conflict they should test this conflict and if you don't pass it her vagina drives up instantly like putting a blow dryer up to it like this totally fucking for real though these guys don't get it it's like dude if you suck with women and you think you can read a thousand and listen to a thousand podcast and you're going to learn the secrets of the red pill and dominate life and women yeah you're delusional like the reason you suck with women probably is because you're conflict avoidant that's why they that it's I call these guys the beta male police to the monastery the BMP beta male police because they're all fucking beta males and they all they're all conflict avoidant like if they actually sat down with a psychologist who wasn't an effeminate feminist loser like a real one this would be like a real personality pro part of real personality profile or characteristic come out they can't deal with conflict for whatever reason trauma or feminism lied to them low masculinity fear weakness for sure yeah whatever the case is they just don't like it and I like conflict you know I don't I don't start fights but if anyone fucks with me I'm happy to fight back immediately like as soon as I think it's appropriate strategically if it's a it's a bigger issue like in the hemisphere but yeah conflict is great and that's all masculine men are not afraid of conflict and they're gonna have difference difference of opinion on how to respond to it timing and these other strategic issues tactical issues but conflict itself they're not afraid of right from women or from men not afraid of it and work not afraid of it in their personal life nowhere if you got to deal with it you deal with it and that's the man is filled with so many fucking beta males and so many fucking simps that they're all conflict avoidant they hate it right even I did I did a calculation on our channel a little while ago people accuse me being negative right like with the drama you're so negative dream so negative right so I was like okay there's like something in something videos on our channel right wow it's awesome thank you free to the world all the stuff never mind red man group that's another 250 videos never mind 21 university under hundreds more videos never mind all the conventions never mind with thousands of videos are on the internet right but just on 21 studios 2000 videos so it's a population the data set of videos I calculated like 98.4% or something are positive videos they're positive educational with educational with occasional entertainment like funny stuff mostly just educational lectures and interviews and stuff it's all just positive media for men positive educational media and like 1.2% are videos that are critical of certain people are exposing them or whatever so it's almost nothing and these dudes will say you're always so negative you're always negative you're always attacking people it's like this is this is factually delusional like you clearly haven't even spent two seconds looking at the channel you just have a negativity bias because these people are your codependently attached to them like a like a fucking little bitch and you don't want to face the reality that you got cucked by these dudes like I told these guys with the sharp mama they got cucked by this nasty fat woman you know using patreon as donovan sharp as a front like a beard because she's too fat and disgusting and old of only fans so she uses patreon right fake and fraud all these guys that gave money to them under patreon cucked they all guys they're all simps instead of being simps for women and only fans they're simps for dudes on patreon it's not who you're simping for that's the problem it's that you're a simp right whether it's donovan's wife cucking you or their fake and fraud simping or you know cucking you too it's the simping that's the problem and they're fucking simps that's what they don't want to face they're not going to change until they face that fact they got fucked they stole money from you you paid them a hundred bucks on patreon over eight months yeah they fucking stole it from you basically they fucked they fucked you there's a lot of really cool stuff that you're talking about in here you know the nature of conflict and all that but I think the thing that's really important is that okay so imagine that you put yourself in the position of you have a bunch of guys simping for you as a male content creator that's the position that a lot of a lot of these guys have gotten into that's what they had to do well yeah because I get DMs from guys like I got a DM from a guy last night pairing for such and such a thing please help me like a real desperate kind of cry and like I'm just like I don't know really what to do with that you know what I mean if someone who is wired differently psychologically could be like oh I can make some money off of that guy or may like the feeling of that savior kind of complex save this guy and then once you run that out once you run that out to you know hundreds more thousands of people and thousands of dollars a year it's really easy to be able to keep men and to facilitate you know men who have that simping kind of mentality you know in that kind of trap to sort of start to embody that savior complex and that's you know that happens that really really happens not just in this sphere but in so many others where you get this cult of personality and the center of the cult of personality is the person who needs, wants craves the attention needs to hold themselves in that position and then they and their cult get trapped in this kind of dynamic where you know it's and once you introduce money into the equation then you got the whole fake guru situation and this is old like this wasn't invented in the man-sphere I mean like it's been going on for a long time but now it's showing up in the man-sphere and I think what people are mistaking as drama is in fact conflict of someone you standing up and saying that's wrong that's bad you're fraud I'm going to expose you because you need to get out exactly what also is happening I think is that look I've been in the man-sphere for like 16 years and even even the primary reason that our videos are free to the world like a TED talk is because I hated the frauds back in the 2000s in 2006 and 2007 I knew that a lot of these guys were losers and liars they were just fucking frauds right they didn't they didn't have skills with women and they didn't have legitimate knowledge to pass on it was just bullshit on over yeah pick up guys overpriced DVD sets and sales pages a thousand miles long written by somebody in India for 10 bucks like it's so it's all retarded right so I wanted to fight back with a better product at a lower cost that was like absolutely lowest cost possible free and then super high quality video production with good speakers but basically was a combative tool against the frauds what I want to say now though is that there's always been frauds in the man-sphere it's gotten worse over time since I think in the 90s there was a lot less in the 80s with the proto-man-sphere you probably have very few but in the 2000s that's when money started getting really heavily involved that's when the game came out that went viral there was the boot camp craze you had constantly guys paying $3,000 a week a weekend for a boot camp that was like very commonplace back then a lot of that was going on it was a multi-multi-million-dollar industry still is right but what I'm saying is you know really rarely did a fraud get exposed back then this didn't even happen they got away with it they got away with it they took the money and they ran and they're gone now now what's happening in the man-sphere is since 2019 when this Civil War so to speak and the man-sphere kicked off finally there's a real push back against frauds in this community for the first time ever the only guy before me that I ever saw do anything about it was Ross Jeffries that's it I think it was him I think he had it was like PUA Watchdog because he knew what was going on he'd been around since the 90s doing this thing and he saw these upstarts and people just bitched at him like oh you're just jealous all the same shit now right all this clout chasing it's like no these people are frauds they're selling you behind a keyboard they're anonymous a $97 fucking e-book right or an $800 DVD set and that guy doesn't get laid or bangs old fat women and Ross Jeffries was the only fucking guy to do anything about it and he got hell for it right so what I'm doing is that at a much bigger level because I'm trying to do this now through multiple communities right red pill PUA whatever I don't care anybody that's trying to get involved with men and masculine the issues if you're a fraud I'm going to hunt you down and expose you for being a piece of shit fucking loser and the world's going to know it I can't control everything that happens after that but at least I can share that the truth and shine light on it like a sanitizer you know Hi everyone I hope you're enjoying my interview with president dream as much as I am it should go without saying that to participate in 21 is a huge honor which is why once again at the end of October in Orlando Florida I'll be speaking at the 21 convention the world's premier event for men in masculinity as you've heard the 21 convention has evolved the past couple years the conference has expanded into the patriarchs event especially for husbands and fathers as well as the 22 convention for women this year I'll be speaking at both the 21 convention and the 22 convention at 21 I'll be talking to men about the power of shame in our lives and how vital it is to triumph over it including my guidance for how to do just that I'm thinking of calling my talk the final red pill and at the 22 convention I'll be speaking to women about the depths of men's minds and hearts explain to them how in the words of Allison Armstrong we aren't just hairy versions of women and why what we're doing across the hall matters and I'll be joining a huge and expanding list of accomplished speakers including Ian Smith of Attila's gym in New Jersey Jack Donovan, Pastor Michael Foster Tanner Guzzi, Alexander Cortez, Dr. Sean T. Smith Elliot Hulse, Socrates Professor Janice Fiammengo lawyer Melissa Isaac YouTuber Jennifer Molesky plus more than I can even list in the description I've provided links to all of the 21 summit events or you can visit the21convention.org and enter the code WILLAS25 at checkout for 25% off any ticket price including to the 22 convention I recommend the VIP tickets which include 5 night on-site stay in the hotel's lovely rooms which I've personally seen front of house reserved seating and an exclusive VIP only dinner with the speakers at 21 you can meet me in person along with 10 members of my incredible renaissance of men team from around the country and even from the UK also all tickets are bring a friend free that's right if it's the first time your friend has attended any of the conferences they can come with you free of charge the 21 convention is the center of the Manisphere and the Manisphere is the leading edge of 40 years of the renaissance what president dream has created matters and what we're doing there matters this year more than ever I hope to see you there like the links in the description for each of the 21 events and enter the code WILLAS25 for 25% off any ticket prices will be going up very soon and I only have a limited number of discounts left so act now to secure the lowest possible price thanks so much and let's get back to the podcast with president Anthony dream Johnson this is really incredible because I'm trying to think of another community I mean I'm not a part of every community but I'm trying to think of another one that might have as much of a vested interest in policing frauds within its ranks because part of the the micro element of being a man is being a man of integrity of searching out you know I guess fraudulence within yourself saying was that was that a lie was that truth and how am I deceiving myself in all that so in a man's life he has to be on a watch for the lies that he's telling himself and others even little ones at least be aware of them but that's on the micro level but I can't think so of course it would make sense that it has to exist on the macro level on a community wide you have courts and judges and you have anti fraud false advertising laws that you're getting at because it's based on part of what you said with honor honor is not only a masculine virtue it is central to masculinity among men if you're a guy who's proven to be dishonorable we don't want you in the tribe get out you're dangerous you can't ever be trusted again it's super super hard to recover that trust and honor so I think for example in the fitness industry that has in J. Vincent that are part of the online industry to teach people by working out honor is not central to fitness it doesn't work like that or health or nutrition or finance it's not fraud goes on in these communities but honor is not central to the existence of those communities the man's fear is for men and by men and it's been growing for decades and because it consists basically exclusively of men finally it's reaching a boiling point because honor is central to being a man and to masculinity itself and as I push this community over time along with my buddies like you and these other guys and more masculine directions honor becomes more and more of an issue because it's so foundational to being a man and that's why this civil war is becoming a bigger thing over the past couple years it's not dying down it's increasing in polarity along with the rest of culture I'm sure there's more to it than that but anyway I think that's why you don't see it in other communities it's just not central to what they do working out there's plenty of frauds making money on fat people that get confused by all kinds of false advertising bullshit manipulation basically but in the man's fear that goes on it's striking at the heart of masculinity it's fucking it up and that's why it pisses me off and other guys too like fuck this shit you're going to say you help men and the whole time you're just scamming them by lying to them and help them it doesn't it directly contradicts the purpose of the man's fear and the purpose of what these guys claim to do whether it's fake and fraud the fraud father or the shark mama it's all bullshit that's exactly what I'm getting at that honor is central to the life of an individual man so it must be central to the life of this community as well and yeah there's no there's no one else that I see out there that's as actively defending the honor and the man's fear as much as you are that's a real it's true I think there's a real act of service in it because what is the impulse within ourselves that defends our own honor is that impulse within ourselves the impulse within myself to defend my own honor can go pretty hard at me at times and I value that aspect of myself that says hey yeah no that wasn't as true as you thought it was and I go back and fix it maybe it was as true as I knew at the time but I went and thought about it something didn't feel right so I'm back and I go and I fix it and I like that that part of me is hard on myself I like that it's necessary because standing up for one's honor, getting into conflict with another person or accepting accountability is not a comfortable process it's never comfortable that's not the point the point is that it's uncomfortable an individual man and a commuter needs someone to go hard in favor of honor because also you can get men you can't comfort them wheel them up in an easy chair after conflict you know you have to charge into battle you have to get your energy up to do that so you know it makes a lot of sense while you're doing what you're doing now that we get chance to talk about it thanks man I appreciate that and I want to say too that I don't think it's a job you know I I like encouraging as many men as possible to stand up and speak the truth including when it comes to frauds and the manuscript and that like I wish Kevin Samuels would speak up more aggressively I wish Coach Greg would to coach Greg's credit he did go after Richard Cooper which is really good he did a good job he was big known for that and he went after Derek Jackson who was a little bit more distant to the manuscript you know he did videos on that and that's good I just wish he would do that even more right there are certain situations like the freaking fraud that I think he should have spoken up and he didn't Kevin Samuels too he could have and he didn't I don't know exactly why I haven't asked him and I'm not going to it's up to him but anyway what I do want to say is that regardless of what individuals do there doesn't need to be someone who like takes charge on that the same way that needs to be guys like Jack Donovan taking charge with what he does with chess magazine now Tanner and with even just focusing on masculinity itself it's such a such a fantastic way right there's no one else talking about masculinity on the level and the depth that Jack is right at all yeah he's really sharp on that issue like Tanner is the lead style guy right in my view so each it's like each each sub tribe of the manuscript has its focus and each individual needs to have like find their own role like that's true to who they are and their soul and their future right what they really want to do in life and for me this is where I find myself right I realize that no one was trying to lead the man's sphere officially and I was like fuck it I'll do it finders keepers get out of my way lead followers get the fuck out of the way also there's a really serious fraud problem that's been going on for decades and I'm sick of it I've been around too fucking long I've seen too fucking much of it not enough gets done about it and no one else doing shit about it I'll fucking do it and that's what I've been doing now for a couple years so yeah it's been just what I think I'm I guess made to do for the time being and I think I've been doing pretty good at it I'm gonna keep doing it and no matter how many times people will scream at me to stop you know well you shouldn't and the missing part of the context that I wasn't aware of and this is this is where you know 15 16 years of experience comes in which I guess we talked about earlier is that you you saw the pickup guys back in the day scamming dudes you know $3,000 conferences ebooks or whatever they're gonna turn you into some sort of some sort of pickup master and it's like you know do you get any results well no may or maybe you do maybe you don't but one way or another I get $3,000 buy for the bootcamp yeah so you see that for long enough and it's like that's that's gross because these men they're not looking just to get laid you know maybe if you frame it to yourself that way they're looking this is what Socrates you know told me which was so cool when sat down and interviewed him was that a lot of guys came out and came to the pickup community just looking to get better socially they weren't trying to rack up huge notch counts they just wanted social skills which is that's a whole subject in and of itself but that's why they came to that world and you're praying on these dudes you're praying on these dudes that desperately they want to be loved they want to have connection they want to have friendships or guys fresh out of a relationship or a marriage like they're hurt man they're they're in pain like these are not men you should be in a comfortable position like you know if they want to go do something or buy something I'm not going to stop them but it's like that's not really they really just need to like get in and like calm down you know be around other men that can kind of guide them on a pro bono basis they shouldn't be just you know forking out money left them right but that's these guys pray on right they pray on wounded vulnerable guys because that's who it's easiest to get money I feel like a hooker or stripper praying I view these guys in the same level as your hooker who is like completely unethical and is looking to pray on the most wounded guy in the club or whatever right that's because that's who you can get the most fucking money out of if he has the money because he's hurt he's emotionally vulnerable to fuck with and take money out of that's what they do and then they keep them stuck there too on top of that we seem more sick even strippers don't even do that and this goes back to what we said at the start of the conversation or earlier about you know oh thanks for saving my life you know responses you saved your own life yeah I may have facilitated some things that you didn't know but you saved your own life versus what someone would say is hey you're welcome you know like guys would say that yeah I saved your life it's like no you didn't you know like like you know Sean Sean Smith great guy amazing guy yes you know he how many how many sessions has been and where he actually his presence with that man or even woman was really the decisive factor in what they were going through you know to really to really make a meaningful shift and you know really clinical clinical issues clinical depression clinical anxiety which he's trained trained to treat but even Sean wouldn't say yeah you know I you know Dustin third official yeah I saved that dude's life no problem you know what I mean it's like but this because it's not you recognize that it's not about you ultimately you know Sean is Sean is mentally healthy which is why he doesn't do that if anybody who's mentally healthy I don't like when people like blindly follow me I really I try to make fun of them and get them away from me and hopefully it will help them like wake the fuck up I just don't like it though it's weird like I don't know everything in the world like I think I'm pretty awesome and I'm fucking badass but that doesn't mean you should follow what I do blindly that's stupid it means you haven't even followed the basics of what I'm saying you're just picking cherry picking little things you like without seeing the fundamental picture which is like lead your own fucking life man be a man it's okay to follow in certain ways at certain times in certain contexts but like don't blindly follow me I'm not your co-leader I'm not your fucking guru leave me alone like I don't even I don't even know you I'm not pretending and that's the thing too right these guys I've noticed this for years on YouTube the fitness industry and the man's fear part of the way they grift part of the way they con as they pretend to be your friend your friendly neighborhood red pill guru right as what we see in the man's fear no they're just pretending to be your friend to get money out of you right we're in this together right for men are we in the together with your youtube check is that going to get shared evenly among all the fans I don't think so huh that's just going to one fucking guy or one fucking company now it's all fucking scam so that's what I don't do is I don't pretend to be people's friends that I don't even fucking know not to me is sick when they're behind behind a screen and they're hey hey I say fam but I'm just kind of teasing and fucking around I don't I don't know you like I'm not pretending to be your friend I'm not your friend right you think you know me you don't know me that's the thing is people know me in real life they know I'm a lot different than I am on twitter and then there's like the real life dream right twitter scorching lately by the way my phone last I was like oh man yeah now these are these are both congruent but I express my personality in different ways sure anyway I hate people who blindly follow me or what I do like it's stupid and it it means you have fundamentally missed the point of what I'm doing like you really aren't getting it and I'm going to make fun of you and hopefully piss you off in a way that that makes you do you get it like don't blindly follow anyone like go lead your own fucking life before you die absolutely well there's you know I came from the sort of the inner work side of the of the of the men's world so the mankind project and stuff like that and one of the you know there's there's a lot of baby in the bathwater there's lots of bathwater but one of the one of the things to take out is there this there's this you know phrase it doesn't universally apply but the men say you know you spot it you got it meaning if you see something one that you like it's like I really admire your integrity or whatever the response of that is whatever you see in me is a reflection of something that's in you so if guys are coming at you and and and you know hero projecting at you it's like no no like I'm doing my thing but what you're seeing really is a reflection of something that's true about you that you've displaced onto me and some guys are very comfortable wearing that you're right that is me and that bolsters their own their own ego and then on the on the flip side of that though also you know between the alpha beta dynamic you know the phrase that a lot of my friends uses a gamma the gamma male which is like you know you know guys who they they don't like the alphas lead the betas follow or belong you know I like to frame it in terms of like a lot of some men just want to belong and the gammas actually subvert the hierarchy yes right they're the ones who come in and try and fuck everything up because they can't be king that's rollo that's rollo no age eight now people you know I did call rollo the secret gamma king but the shadow gamma king I think is actually what I called him based on what we've said that sounds about right actually agey but Alexander Cortez agey Cortez I think was the first guy to call that on Twitter and in my documentary the short one about 25 minutes about rollo I showed that tweet of agey calling rollo a fucking gamma male and he's right rollo is not I call him a beta male loser and stuff but he's not he's a gamma male he's really dark and twisted and fucked up sark he's recently called rollo like the cancer of the man is fair as a because he is he's that fucking bad man everything he touches dies he had donovan the the fake and fraud these are little puppets that rollo tries to set up like his little franchises right like little hypergamy churches to spread his message and sell his books right and he was counting on fake and fraud to blow to you know continue growing and said they imploded because rollo's a fucking is a he fosters negative personality traits and character traits he finds them in people and then he fosters more of them he breeds more cancer and more retarded shit because it's a fucking gamma male and that's what guys don't get right they you know I think Vox Vox Day as he calls himself I think it's really I should say it he was the one who coined these you know the man is trying to gamma male and stuff like this omega male I think he's even you know I think he's kind of loosely friendly with rollo but even he doesn't see rollo for being a gamma male because he's distant he doesn't know rollo at all yeah invested in this community yeah he should be I mean Manister is fucking awesome like I think Vox is great yeah but no but I mean rollo is a really a super gamma king he's the biggest gamma male that there is these other guys aren't gamma males don't it's not a gamma male he's a beta male fake and fraud are not gamma males or alpha males either they're beta males most of the frauds are just beta males but the sum of them are gamma males he would be another gamma male for example he's one of the few like there really is a really fucked up he's a child stalker so some of these guys are like when they go next level fraud or weird shit like child stalking then they're basically that's kind of the tell sign of the gamma males their personality is so twisted and so fucked up and so retarded that they've crossed a threshold from loser beta male to gamma male who will just fuck everything up for everybody that's one of the reasons also that we have to get rid of them out of the Manisphere because there's super toxic poison I guess fake and fraud are such frauds that you know they're pushing that boundary too in a different way by selling the gamma males their beta males mm-hmm oh for sure well I mean once you start you know once you start sending you know DMs to women you know asking for sex to come on the podcast and stuff like that like that exactly that's not gonna work and you have to be as an individual man ruthless with your own pursuit of personal honor and sort of you know purge the the gamma aspects of yourself or the shadow aspects of yourself that are trying to take you down from the pursuit of your own mission like this is this is the macro and the micro they're the same thing and that's actually really cool something I hadn't really thought about before that you know as a community of men we need to behave as if we're kind of one man in different ways and yeah I mean that well that's that's one of the things that you you put out a bunch of flyers for 21 convention a couple days ago and you know there was one with Ajak and you know and and Jay Vincent and Ian Smith yeah on one and then you had another you know with with Elliott Hulse and Steve the Dean and stuff like that and then you had one of me with which was really cool with Dr. Robert Glover and Sean Smith and Ken Curry and it's like and it was really cool to see to line them up next to each other and to be like these are the different expressions of masculinity that exist within a single man and that also now exists within the community and that now exists within 21 because what you started was much much originally much more pickup focused I mean obviously 15 16 years ago it was a much smaller conference but now it's diversified and there's a whole then the whole patriarchs thing I still want to so this is a common in my opinion misconception about under 21 convention there is some there is some truth to what you're saying that it started as a pickup conference but that's not the whole story it was even from the beginning I guess what I'll say is this the it has spawned into this very comprehensive convention and kind of media empire for men red man group 21 studios 21 convention patriarch convention 22 convention make them great again all this stuff right that is to me and I think socrates would agree is one of the few guys who witnessed it from day one pre pre announcement before I even announced to the public that's how long socrates are watching it right that's so great it was even back then it was a self improvement event and focus for young men and it even back then even the first event 2007 we had a whole speech on it was basically called men's style and fitness and it was the same ideas J. Vincent is preaching now that's the guy that led me to Dr. Doug McGuff and Drew Bay and J. Vincent all these guys that started in 2007 so even back then there was a speech on fitness and style for men which am I the extend yeah for sure I saw the recordings and all that he's he never went into public speaking more extensively so we took that down a long time ago this is for his privacy but it's still there and anyone who attended remembers that too so that to me is an example of physically a factual basis of like even from day one it was mostly talks on pickup but then also some style and fitness and the reason you had a diversity of speakers and content was because the foundation was self improvement it wasn't the pickup was awesome pickup was just the expression at the time but that and so this is also why I was able to quickly in 2009 only a couple years later transition it into an event for young men to all men and then it's just been getting bigger and broader ever since then because eventually became international in 2010 Europe and later Australia then later it became for fathers as well in 2019 and for women in 2020 now we do three events at the same time within the same summit so what I'm saying is there is some truth to the pickup understanding that the public has of it as a foundation but behind that has always been a self improvement focus and that is why it was never limited to pickup and that's why guys back in the even in 2009 when I brought in fitness speakers more extensively that's when we it was more known that there was fitness speakers speaking and a lot of the PUA's back then were very angry about this I saw the old emails they were like like screaming every mail that I was betraying the PUA community because it was not they assumed it was exclusively PUA focused and I'm like no even in 2007 we had one who wasn't and I think it's cool to have you know personal trainers who have nothing to do with PUA stuff because the fitness guy we had in 2007 he had some involvement in the local pickup layer so he was still like from that community but the speech had nothing to do with pickup but in 2009 we had speakers then from fitness and stuff that had nothing to do with PUA community and that's when the guys are realizing that I was making the conference about like masculinity and men not just PUA stuff and it was official it wasn't just like a sideshow in 2007 now it's like I'm officially doing this and to me it makes perfect sense and so my mind it's always been a self improvement event not a PUA conference that's why no matter what element of masculinity I want to focus on whether it's fitness or health or wealth or self-defense or marriage or family or whatever it all fits into the same fundamental picture that's been going since I was 17 years old and maybe that's hard for people to believe but that's how I viewed things back then I was always philosophically thinking about it like extensively on a wide angle view panoramically I call it the actual if you see in the background because you're seeing the video of me the actual tagline of the 20th convention for a long time was a panorama event for life on Earth as a man panorama like a wide angle lens like a wide angle focus that's from like 2012 well you have to put these things together this was always this always seemed to me I never participated in the pickup world but this always to me seemed to be a distinguishing factor between just in terms of time-wise the difference between the pickup era and the red pill beginning of the manasphere era where the pickup era was sort of understanding intersexual dynamics let's say but then the red pill manasphere era became like well what are you going to do about it you're not just going to use these mental hacks to pick up chicks and get laid you're going to meaningfully improve your life knowing what you know now about the world well to the credit too of the real red pill community I think Rolo basically at some point turned the red pill into the Rolo pill and he kind of hived off from the much wider red pill community that has existed for a long time people a lot of guys on YouTube don't understand that but there's a real red pill community of the manasphere and it exists even still primarily on reddit and trp.red they got quarantined by reddit and kind of censored but it was pretty big before he got quarantined like 300,000 men in it and Rolo was a figure here but he had many competitors and his stuff you know was respected so to speak among that group but it was not the only game in town he was one red pill guy of many what I will give the red pill community credit to though fully as if they were the first one to take seriously building a unifying theory of like what's going wrong in the world for men and in dating and relationships and intersexual dynamics the PUA community didn't really do that the farthest it got it was mostly just like social skills which is socrates is correct dating skills pick up and picking up girls same that lays there was not a lot of content on relationships very little socrates was a pioneer I would say in that community back then for even focusing on that at all he was calling it out for in a business sense too is that these people are stupid like you have all these guys who they get girlfriends and they have relationship problems they need help and no one did shit about it no one nothing it was a great point like it was dumb on multiple levels back then to not focus on that but anyway outside of mystery with like survival and replication the very few teachers back then there's a lot of them are frauds whatever they just didn't have any thoughts really as to what the fundamental issues were that were going on in culture was the unifying theory that could tie a lot of these ideas together and that's what the red pill community did really well Andrew the private man was an example that when he spoke the red pill speaker before he died unfortunately of eyeball cancer his speech was like called I think the why the why of how and it was about the red pill itself like not only is the pickup is the how how do you go pick up girls but why does it all work why does it tie together he was trying to tie you know these ideas together for the guys using the red pill and using some of the ideas we see today even at programming and stuff but in poa there's dude I was in there for you know that was the predominant community that was a part of when the man is here for a long time and there was very little thought as to like and that annoyed me too because I was trying to I was even that's how I found rollo actually in 2015 we were searching for speakers to help me build out more of like what the fuck is really going on in culture because the poa stuff it's cool for getting laid but like what are the deep issues that play and these guys aren't answering it my speakers I thought we're doing some of the best work to that and they were doing some good work for that but there's much more beyond that so that's really in my own in my own research trying to understand the history of everything that's been going on for the past 40 or so years that was that was a real shift it just that I determined when the pickup guys gathered all this raw data about you know the way that women work and discovered eventually that what we're told is going on sexually is not what actually is going on because they had the raw sociological research I guess you might say to validate it they wouldn't even need to get to you today but then it was the red pill guys that really took it and put it together and be like well hold on if that's a lie then this is a lie and if this is a lie then that's a lie and then and then you get into real like not intersexual red pill but like real like you know capital RP red pill about the world life and then it was out of that where it's like that's where the whole sovereignty movement was born of because you recognize that you're being lied to about really everything if you're being lied to right down to the level of men and women and families being lied to about yes and so then you then you start getting into sovereignty then you start getting into you know aspects of homesteading and then you come around which is where 21 is at now we've got Pastor Michael Foster you know leading the patriarchs event like it you know it ends up in Christianity and religion and faith and it's it's it's really powerful I don't know that did you expect to get here after 15 16 years no man not even it was a one-time event man that's the people don't understand it was not a business it wasn't even supposed to be just like a one-time hobby event and then I got the guys at the end of the first event were like when's the next one they just expected more of them and I was 18 years old at that point I was like I did in my head I was like oh shit I didn't think of that that's really went through my head and I was like next year same time and then I realized very quickly I committed to doing another one and I liked it it was fun and it was really cool to pull off so I was like I'll do another one 2009 I almost ended it all I was it was I almost I almost made 2009 I was I was telling the guys like I think it might be the last one I'm getting kind of exhausted from doing it it's fun it was getting bigger and more complicated and like fuck but then I doubled I put my heels dug my heels in and did obviously a lot more of them and it's 15 years now but yeah I never remember wildest dreams it was supposed to be an event for young guys right self-improvement fitness picking up chicks right really it wasn't even supposed to be an event it's supposed to be a meetup group conf kind of thing right and then that quickly turned into a convention and then the under 21 convention and then it's it's just been this constant evolution over time and now I never thought it'd have anything to do with religion pastors if you told me in 2007 or 2008 even the second year that I'd have pastors and reverends and stuff speaking on the stage about masculinity and issues and stuff like that I'd be like what the fuck what like that would have been because I'm an atheist and I was an atheist and I had no idea where the culture war was going to go at that time in my life it was still very in the 2000s it was still very tame compared to what we see today and I was even talking to Suzanne Benker an anti-feminist author we had speaking at 22 the other day we first talked on zoom and I told her I was like look our conference these days it deals a lot in cultural issues as well as self-improvement but didn't start out that way it was a self-improvement for young men and then all men and then fathers but as the culture war and the cultural issues as things have gotten increasingly polarized and increasingly chaotic and crazy because I find it as necessary and it's the right thing to do and it's a matter of honor like this country is falling apart the culture is falling apart masculinity is dying if it's not already dead in this country right it's really it's in terrible shape femininity is just as bad if not worse the family is falling apart our civilizations fucking falling apart it seems someone do something like hello this is downstream from culture I believe that firmly Andrew Brepper right now they haven't they have a reciprocal relationship too for sure but if you know politically we can't say this country which is politics no amount of building walls and trumps is going to save this country like things are falling apart at a much deeper level and that's the manifest like I said is the only thing doing anything about that and the wider men's movement or whatever it's anybody related to these issues focusing on speaking real talking about real issues and real shit going on trying to fix them on a personal non-political basis if you don't deal with that we're all fucked feminism's death shot to this country it's a shot to the world yeah it's going to fuck everything up yeah it's extremely there's nothing more dangerous to the world right now than I would say feminism long term short term we have some more serious shit to deal with obviously and we should get into that but yeah I mean you could I talked to Jack Donovan recently on a podcast interview for the chess magazine thing he's going to get quotes from that and I was and he put it on and I appreciated that I was like look man if we had this amazing super healthy 1776 revolution tomorrow not that I'm calling for one right right what is it disclaimer but it lets us hypothesize that one happened what would really change you'd probably not a lot long term in 20 or 30 years you have a lot of the same issues spring back up because the rot is much deeper right men are not men anymore women are not women family is dying the black community is a 70% single motherhood I would like births whites and Hispanics are closing the gap like this is crazy you can't you can't build a country in a continuous civilization with everybody being raised by the fucking government you're gonna have something bad's gonna happen men dollar collapse currency collapse war will happen war is it war genocide and stuff is a regular theme throughout history men now we've lived in a brief period now post World War two where this has not been happening too much still does obviously but no one heard the scale that it did and yeah masculinity femininity are central to this they're the most they're the most ancient forces we have in our species they proceed language they proceed fire they proceed the wheel they proceed civilization by a mile right and they're dying now and feminism is at the root of killing those things masculinity and femininity and family and the connection between masculinity and femininity mm-hmm well it's it's as I think about it you know I remember from the book iron John that talks about he takes more of an industrial revolution you know was the first strike against masculinity the removal of sons from the home and it's not a coincidence that in fact there's a Brett McKay who does the art of manliness podcast he has a book called muscular Christianity and he ties the industrial revolution to the rise of feminism in the church because fathers are removed from the home they were sent off to work in the factories but the pastors were in the village all day so they started going around to women and they started meeting the needs of women because the pastors didn't get a chance to talk to the men so you know the rise of the rise of feminism came about from the industrial revolution as well because women could finally work they could do work similar to the men it wasn't necessarily based on physical ability in terms of like you know carrying bales of hay and mining and stuff like that they could do factory work so women were participating economically more so they wanted political participation as well so that sort of makes me think we're seeing a lot of that now where we have you know sort of metastasized feminism in terms of the SJW kind of woke mentality right we have that that's merging with this really hyper intense corporate state you know you have the military industrial complex merging with feminism and that's what we're looking at with this whole koof nonsense is like there's the there's the intense hyper technological industrialization that's being carried forward on this wave of social justice war tourism but that's what happened 150 years ago where you had industrialization mechanization and then you had feminism come at the same time and I'm just kind of blowing my mind right now actually yeah that's this is a really good well spoken I can't I cannot still your thunder on that well spoken I want to add that another thing that Jack Donovan said to me in that recent interview probably about three weeks ago or something like that he said speaking on the same issues they said feminism is probably the biggest thing to ever happen in human history I mean and he meant that and I was like damn like because I talk a lot about these issues and I hadn't thought of it that way as much as I see it as a threat I hadn't thought about it and tried to compare it to other historical things that have happened which is unlimited right the fall of Rome the American Revolution the Magna Carta Jesus like the birth of civilization right agriculture like there's a lot of big things that have happened but I think what Jack was trying to say and he can speak for himself if he's interviewed or you know maybe I'll write about it I think he should but that claim I never heard that and what he's saying I think is that feminism is basically with the industrial revolution or without it and other geopolitical events that have happened in the world since then feminism is fundamentally changing the relationship between men and women rapidly and without respect for nature yep and that's how I interpreted it and I'm like that's what I'm like man this guy is in the nail in the head like fuck because we've never seen that there's been nothing like feminism there's been in the fall of Rome I think you saw the rise of women in these different things other issues and shit there's there's like proto-feminism chivalry and shit but really this feminism that got started in Seneca Falls that we're seeing now with the you know Wokeness and SAW's I've used the child of feminism it's metastasizing cancer yeah it's gonna kill it's gonna kill civilization and I think we never seen anything like it you know the founding fathers didn't have to deal with it you know Napoleon didn't have to deal with it you know the dark ages didn't have to deal with the other shit bebonic plague and shit but uh yeah it's it's big shit and the average person is today has zero awareness of that they swim in feminism like fish they see it as this water and it's just around them like what water like it's all around you feminism has dominated everything and culture and it's dangerous and it might be so cancerous that it kills the country you live in and like oh it's this about equality like no man it has nothing to do with that and never did you can't even you can't even speak against feminism to a normal person you even say like maybe some things of feminism weren't good and that react in horror like how could you how could you say that like there's a you know I should I should really write down a list of things in our civilization that can't be questioned feminism is one of them yes you cannot question feminism you cannot question vaccines right you just can't even you can't even say like well maybe maybe it's a good idea to have you know liability for the manufacturers oh shock horror right yeah yeah you can't question climate change like why is it that we're not allowed to question these and of course there's a big list of other things as well science is settled the science is settled yeah well the science is evolving is the new one right it's like the settled but settled we were wrong right but like so it's like but feminism is one of those things you can't even you can't even suggest you know that there was something wrong there and I agree with Jack that it's the most fundamental powerful force because it's actually it's driven by this sort of Marxist ideology that you can reshape society however you want yeah right because the Christian counterpoint is God has divinely designed society men and women or you know in this particular way through through these various you know through these various spiritual and material mechanisms to make men men and women or women and you can't reshape that Marxism says oh god we're gonna remake society as we see fit and feminism is the first like you said the most fundamental expression the two most fundamental forces in the universe are masculine and feminine and on earth they're masculine and feminine so if you say they have no basis in reality you can just mix and match and mess them all up you know there's there's really nothing more fundamental to to being a human being than being a man or a woman that's right nothing else there's literally nothing more fundamental I would say other than being human that's it like you're human being and then what kind are you that's literally the first step out the fucking door you're an individual human being and then you're male or female that's it but now of course there's 500 genders and all that shit all part of this this this push to destroy masculinity and femininity and turn us into androgynous homogenous you know robots basically that don't have these masculine souls and feminine souls and all the biology and psychology that go along with it it's the it's the destruction our species is sexually dimorphic and feminism is like you're saying I think a push to the completely aggressively to the maximum degree disrespect the fact that we are sexually dimorphic species we always have been and there are several hundred thousand years or a god or whatever that have made this so and you can't just change it because you feel like it because your feelings or your wishes or your whims or whatever your emotions fucking say that's cool reality doesn't give a fuck god doesn't give a fuck pardon me you know my french I ran would say existence exist and only existence exist and you can evade reality but you cannot evade the consequences of evading reality and that's what these people think they can do awesome and they can't it will always this is why you have to respect nature whether god created it or not I don't really give a shit we are here and we're human beings and your body and our and our species is very old and feminism is this insanely aggressive push to fuck up the most foundational point of all that male or female man and woman and then how we connect by fucking and breeding and building families it's fucking up all that and yeah the average person says no idea like you're saying you can't even criticize feminism even a little bit but many say that like hey feminism is kind of weird and I think that they're they're extreme and they have a lot of you know stupid beliefs let's talk about it oh you want to enslave women oh you want to repeal the 19th amendment they jump do they go they go from zero to 100 miles an hour in heartbeat and many say feminism is anything less than perfect the fact that you even think it's not perfect that you even want to talk about it and criticize it you can't now you're not allowed for a long time in this country it's been the case it's insane well the fact that if you even want to I guess the way that I frame it is the one thing that can never happen is you can never tell a woman no and what the abortion debate is really at its base is about is that nothing will stand in the way of giving women whatever they want and if they want to kill a baby they will never be told no by a man that's the that's the ultimate expression that a woman can take a human life and not be told no yeah you know what I got and I like I met up with an old friend that I hadn't seen in like 17 years and we were traveling overseas I went to New Mexico and you know we got to talking about abortion like I could tell we were kind of dancing around getting into deeper issues in the conversation and I had to point out to her like it's a human life it's not going to grow into an alligator or a tree it's going to grow into a human you know it's a human life and so that's that's at the bottom I think what feminism you know really says is like you can never tell a woman no and that shows up like in we talked we were talking about it earlier with conflict and and dating and pickup artistry and red pill it's like okay can you actually tell are you a man that's strong enough to tell a woman no knowing that she has the entire force of culture behind her yeah you know feminism has elevated women to the status of gods minor gods or what do you call them lower lesser gods lesser guys lesser deities lesser deities there's all these deity words descriptors basically but yeah they're deities they could decide whether little babies live or die unilaterally this is not the case by the way in Japan and certain other countries that actually they need the consent of the father right which is you know that's still not perfect but it's a lot more in the right direction like you don't get unilaterally decided this baby lives or dies what the fuck like that's we live in that that's like normal today and if you and if you think that's wrong you're a right-wing extremist it's like anything to the right of pulpit and Mao is far right extremism today it's all it's part of the propaganda war but it's just yeah it's only nuts mm-hmm yeah I look at it you know in this the spirit of never a woman never being told no you know there's something very masculine that's that's the masculine principles to draw boundaries yes and the boundary is a no that's what a boundary is is like you don't come past this point it's just an outward facing no and I'm just looking at the craziness that's going on and I say that there's the biggest cosmic no coming you know and that's what we can all feel is that reality will assert its primacy over propaganda over the ideology soon what does that look like who knows but it's like at some point you're going to reach the end point and you can scream you know white supremacy or patriarchy all you want at the laws of physics and they're not going to change nature nature will win absolutely absolutely and then we feel that that's that's that's the that's the angst that I think is like this is so out of balance and it's so wrong and the scales are so tilted in a very unnatural it's on human direction how does he correct correct it for sure it's dangerous it's it's legitimately dangerous it's it's threatening and that's why I think no revoi one of our speakers recently said like any man with an ounce of disaster on left and the west in the United States or whatever your spine is tingling now you're getting a tingle up your nerves right the shits the shits this is going off the rails so hard and so fast and it's putting you know it's endangering the future of your people of your country like people could die a lot of people like they did last century hundreds of millions right we're facing that on a bigger scale with more with a bigger population so yeah it's it's fucking nuts man yeah and it will be corrected though patriarchy is inevitable and nature will win while again in architecture for example socrates is an architect they have a saying in architecture world that water will win which is kind of this where he gets the nature will win but he says this a lot same thing right nature is nature existence exists a is a and you're not going to beat that however much you think you can you can't if you want to conquer nature you have to respect nature nature to be commanded is to be obeyed and when you disobey nature and you disrespect it it's going to punch you back 10 times harder nature to be commanded is to be obeyed where's that from that's awesome I ran was a big fan of it but I don't think she was the originator I think she got it from a philosopher named Francis Bacon I was thinking I could be wrong on that but if you google you'll find it yeah that's spine tingling like I feel that I feel that it's just like I had a dream a couple nights ago where I was standing in line on some city street it felt like LA and I'm standing in line with a bunch of people and they're these guys in red shirts and there's something it's some vaccine something and the people are pushing back on the guys in red shirts like I don't really know what's going on and then suddenly everything is falling like as if the whole street and everything just dropped like a pancake like a collapse underground and everything starts falling and I felt that sensation of falling in my entire body in the dream like I'm falling I'm falling and then I woke up and it was almost if you ever one of the dreams where you feel like you're bouncing in your bed like it was exactly like that it's like just out of nowhere everything just started falling I woke up like oh shit that's that's not a good dream to have there have been plenty of Jordan Peterson I would think be one and I'm sure many others in the manuscript said that like femininity is chaos femininity is chaos Elliott Halls was big on this last year at Patriarch and their speeches he gave there's been a lot of people in the manuscript who believe this and they're right I think that what I want to get at is that like feminism is femininity is completely out of control and women today in America for example are completely out of fucking control I said the other day on my twitter women in this country are absolutely out of control well that's a little bit bombastic I mean it I mean look at all look at only fans look at sugar dating look at feminism look at abortion on every fucking it affects men too so that's a whole other issue right feminism blue coal eyes and all this bullshit and courts and politics and policies and all that but just in terms of like raw behavior women are fucking out of control in this country and it's unique for the time period we live in the founding fathers American women and the 1700s and 1800s when I like this woman today and other countries do not act like this it's uniquely American and to this major extent other western women Canada Australia Britain whatever they're fucked there's completely unhinged like and they they have just like you're saying they don't know how to take no for an answer right they just think they can do whatever they want indefinitely with no consequences route is a work like that like you will get whether the men do it or nature does it someone's gonna smack you in the face with a big old dick of reality a big old dose of truth it's it's gonna crash like you think you're invincible you think you don't need no man you think you know civilization is built itself the crash is common man the corrections coming one way or another and I love women a lot right I try to help them as best I can with 22 convention make them a great again our speakers and a lot of energy in my life and yeah they're just out of control man and feminism is basically the cancer is outgrowth of that like super unhinged just out of control it's okay the women are chaotic right there's probably a good reason for that in our species they're exciting and I'm firmly a believer like I'm not a complementarian necessarily but I believe that men and women are compatible we're complementary to each other and it's pretty important is parenting is an obvious example this children need to both the mother and father so yeah but yeah it's it's just nuts man there out feminism is femininity just completely unhinged out of control to a really extreme level that we've never seen before in human history there's no other there's no basis in history for feminism like some huge feminist experiment like the spanning you know all these all these huge nations billions of people a hundred and something years now like this is nuts man and so it's gonna blow up on our face mm-hmm and then hopefully it doesn't fucking repeat itself right like it most of history and you know human beings mm-hmm there's a science fiction book called the Canticle for Libo which takes place after some apocalyptic collapse which the book was written I think in the 60s so it was probably more like nuclear war at the time I don't think that they foresaw we were getting now but I think what the feminists would say is that feminism came about as a way to let's say check the worst impulses of men they say that in various in various ways but there's no there's no counter for men to say like okay do men get to check the worst impulses in women is there is there reciprocity and the answer of course is no you don't get to tell me no so well what's your what's your historical basis for that oh well you know thousands of years of oppression all that well let's take that apart no you don't get to take that apart you know Warren Farrell takes that apart that's right you know it's it's it's very challenging for people to confront that like what you think what the feminists portray as men or patriarchy is a very very small number of very elite men and then there's millions and billions of men throughout history that you know have had nothing they've had no power you know and this and I did an interview with Warren Farrell where he talks about that where he was actually he was actually in a car with Gloria Steinem and she was talking about men this and a presser and they were they were riding in a limousine together and he and Gloria Steinem and the limo driver said you know I have an anthropology degree but I couldn't make any money so now I'm you know now I drive a limo 60 70 hours a week to make to make ends meet and then so and so when Warren got out of the car with Gloria Steinem he's like well you know what about that guy like he's not trying to oppress his family and she and Gloria Steinem was like oh that's interesting and like just totally brushed it off didn't even see that the man driving the car. It's because they don't see she I think I've said the man is here for a while now and for whatever reason I guess I was the first person to say this for me it was this what the manister believes and I believe women women see three genders they always have so I don't mean the 500 gender shit they see three genders right fundamentally on like a biological brain level right neurology level I guess it'd be the way to say that they see men they see women and they see betas and basically if you're not in the top 10 or 20 percent of men let's just classify it as a percentage thing they don't even that's the man is here would say that's what they would I think say to that in general that invisible you're invisible yeah you don't even exist they they those men are not really meant to them they're beta males they're like animals they're supposed to be used and I don't view men that way that's stupid I say they had a male and alpha male mostly mostly it's to insult people and to try to put masculinity in a spectrum Jack Donovan was talking about this today in his newsletter it was pretty cool actually it's a good newsletter like usual but I don't you know women you know hyper simplifying categorizing men into alpha beta shit for breeding and all these other purposes I don't give a shit that's not what should be leading culture that's stupid and that's what Gloria Steinman I think did was what you're saying yeah it does they don't even exist right these men who are these men who have had no power throughout centuries and thousands of years who have built civilization right who have fought in revolutionary wars and these things to fight for freedom and individual rights didn't even exist it doesn't even matter it's just all it's just narcissism out of control at this point it's all just as a month steroids and there's no ability for for well-meaning men to check it to tell a woman no you're wrong you're wrong because then you're mansplaining there's the language wars it's insanely sophisticated mansplaining toxic masculinity patriarchy like you know and then they of course they spent you know some of the some of the brightest and most devious minds in history that have spent years developing the stuff you know launching these like I remember like I've talked about how I was part of Occupy Occupy Wall Street Occupy San Francisco right you know I mean I didn't I thought what the big banks were doing the vampire squid Goldman Sachs stuff was criminal and I was furious that no one was holding them accountable so that's that's what got me involved this was in San Francisco 2011-2012 I never once heard the word privilege or patriarchy in a year of working for that organization never once right suddenly in 2013 someone in a men's group actually said told me to check my check your privilege and I was like what the fuck yeah I was like what does that mean I could feel the verbal weaponry being thrown at me you know it's like it landed like energetically and so like these are verbal weapons rhetorical weapons that are being used words are the most powerful weapons in the world it's not the guy who pushes the nuke button or pulls the trigger it's the guy who gives the command whether it's a leader of a country a president or whatever or it's a commander in a military or another politician giving orders it's words it's words coming out of when Donald Trump dropped a moab bomb on Afghanistan a couple years ago he didn't physically go push a button or fly a plane and do it it's his words and not only in politics and in government and stuff but in culture it's words man if they can control the words they can control the way people think they can control the way people think they can control them physically the way they behave and the way they act and the choices they make it's like in the man's sphere right the guys who manipulate and defraud and scam all this shit what do they do they get in your head and they manipulate you and they lie to you what is the end goal it can be a little bit varied depending on feeding their God complexes and shit but on a very simplistic level it's for money in most guys case it's just money so they want to physically control they want to control the way you think so they can control your brain to control your fucking hand and your fucking fingers to go in your fucking wallet and take out your fucking credit card and get money out of you over a long period of time as much as possible it is about physically manipulating what your fucking fingers do at the end of the day that's what these frauds are after that's what they're doing with the language too it's the same fucking thing they want to control the weapons and the verbiage and all that shit to control thinking to control behavior to control to basically enslave people like this is what sheep are slaves it's a way it's a modern slave basically like a surf and if you can't think for yourself because you can't speak they control you they control the culture they control so they dictate they can manipulate voting patterns and all kinds of shit it's sick modern slaves they were male slaves they were what castrated and then they were denied the ability to read they couldn't read and they were castrated and I think we see that today with short attention span theater, social media Netflix and all that stuff you've got a shelf full of books beside you and I've got a shelf full of books beside me and I think it's hard to underestimate overestimate just how important the printed written word is not in a kindle not an audiobook but the printed like read read a book but then also de-castrate yourself and so this is what we're doing right we're taking men that have been fully betafied and we're hopefully rehabilitating them and introducing them to their testosterone to their strength to the boundary drawing function and who knows how they showed up maybe they showed up because of a bad divorce or a breakup or they saw a video on youtube or who knows how they showed up but they're taking them out of this sort of a beta male mentality because this whole corporate bureaucratic medical state wouldn't have been able to advance without feminism without the Karen mentality that has infected teachers versus you know and women freaking out because you're not wearing a mask but right behind them are legions of beta males that can't tell them that can't tell the women no that's right like what would a strong masculine culture would it have any tolerance for all this crap we see today no what would the founding fathers do today if you told them we're going to put you under indefinite house arrest all of you right not just one or two of you millions of you right house arrest we're going to put a mask on your face right we're going to shut down your business for six months and if it if it goes bankrupt we don't give a fuck we're the government you know what they do they shoot them they kill you yeah I'm not advocating you go do that anybody listening right FBI listening whatever that everybody knows including the detractors of the founding fathers you don't like them believe there are white supremacists patriarchal capitalist pigs who cares right whatever all this shit you would what do they shop people over taxes on T like two percent or some shit you think you're gonna lock them in their home they would grab a gun they fucking kill you because they were men not just because of the time they lived in that was a factor not just because of whatever other factors you want to throw in there because they were masculine and they were men and they were not cucked and they were not feminist and if you tried to do all this fucking tyrannical bullshit to them they wouldn't even hesitate they fucked kill you yeah like they wouldn't they wouldn't think twice about it they fucking celebrate after killing you you'd hang you in the fucking street for the shit they're doing it I exactly what they do when I met with Elliott Holst in Florida I talked to him about this because he's he's become very avowedly Christian so have I and so I was sort of playing devil's advocate with him and I was saying well you know the a lot of people paint Christianity as this sort of slave morality where you're supposed to sell you're supposed to sacrifice and allow yourself to be obliterated and that's you know that's very Christ-like and maybe that's Nietzsche's position in some ways but that's also the way you know Christianity is going to become in some ways but that's sort of the way that it's painted and and he he had a really great response to that he said the way that we're called to be like Christ is not to not to allow ourselves to be killed not physically in body but to give ourselves sacrifice ourselves in speaking truth that's how we're called to be like Christ is to speak up to use the word weapons like we said and you will be quote-unquote crucified for that that's pretty cool I can get behind that that's fucking dope it's great yeah blew me away like I was sitting there like I'm gonna need to I actually literally said like I'm gonna need a minute with that like that was really really great and that's and that's what's going on as like is we're way behind in this in this arms race this this verbal arms race rhetorical weapons arms race trying to catch up on like deconstructing where did toxic masculinity come from that came out of nowhere and then it was everywhere you know what I mean and so we're way behind in that arms race but really to speak truth because you know we don't have available to us the idea of going you know finally the founding fathers approach like I know that that would I don't I'm not saying we need to go no no I know I know that's you know that's what we have available we have our words right and so that's that's a masculine thing is to stand up and engage in the battle for men with your words right so we come all the way back around everything we've been talking about well because the words are the words represent something they represent businesses they represent movements they represent ideas they represent souls they represent character they represent reputations say the words convey carry a lot right and on on that note I wanted to mention too though release train of thought here so I want to say that there's there's two at least two elements of how the stuff works with feminism influenced in culture and you mentioned occupy Wall Street I like that a lot because a book I was showing you the coming warning to the global middle class talks about this specifically and it was pretty cool and I saw a video about this too actually so some of what happens with feminism I think is organic it's femininity run amok it's the worst elements of femininity they're not being checked and men have masculinism dark elements too like rape and we have laws that stop that and that's good femininity has dark elements to feminism is huge kind of like this giant soup of that shit but even more specifically you could say things like paternity fraud very dark elements of femininity that are not checked really in culture and law and they should be it should be criminal you should go to jail for it right trying to trying to literally cuck somebody and lie to them on purpose you should go to jail it's like it's like rape basically it's the female version of rape now what I want to say though is that some of feminism is organic and something like it's a shit running out of control even China now is for example they're doing a lot to combat basically feminism influence of their culture because they see it as dangerous they have programs to make men little boys more masculine because they're worried about for the the military and stuff there and they're probably that's why people say feminism is a child of communism I'm like I get that and I think that's true but it's also become its own beast it's its own thing that's turning like even on communist countries and a couple days ago they fired like all these of feminine for the state-run media in China or whatever they fired all these of feminine beta males from it they fired them this is a big thing on twitter and the news and shit because they see feminism in demasculating cucking these fucking men and it's dangerous right the muslims see it in America they're not stupid they watch they know yeah what I'm saying is that some of it's organic some of it's artificial now what I what I mean is for example Occupy Wall Street they're you know the banks these are run by these sociopaths these banks right these are fucking losers they're mooshers off the government too they use the government to get bailouts and all this crap their scumbags they all berserk they all deserve to be rotten prison all these fucking losers right or worse I agree now if you notice though right after Occupy Wall Street was a big thing and all this heat was against these big banks and all this shit right all these stuff these traders right all of a sudden if you look on google and shit back then you saw all these upticks for racism racism racism and then eventually you got male privilege check your male privilege bro check your white privilege check your masculinity bro so some of this especially the racial stuff I think a lot of it is from basically Occupy Wall Street because they wanted to divert the tension away from where's Occupy people today right right they're they're not bitching at the banks they're bitching at the patriarchy and Donald Trump and MAGA and anything they get their hands on right so it's a divide and conquer thing like many have talked about but it's on purpose because racism is artificial you know the BLM stuff it's all it's a huge diversion tactic to get to focus all the attention away from Amazon's big big tech big media big banks all this shit those people the enemies these are the elites these oligarchs actually run the fucking country so they want to divert all the attention to like toxic masculine the real enemy the people and you know white the white supremacist patriarchy white supremacism is the greatest threat to America right that's what they say in the white house this is insane like it's crazy it's totally fucking delusional but it works and people a lot of sheep fucking lap that shit up they're just dumb and shit I think about white supremacy as like it's a way to portray it's a way to take godly divine order or natural law this is called natural law and and say that natural law is somehow tied to the greatest sin of humanity which is racism right like racism was made into like the one thing that you cannot be you can be a pedophile it's okay to be Jeffrey Epstein but was Jeffrey Epstein wasn't a racist you know what I mean like that's that in the hierarchy of values right so to take natural law and to call to describe a racial charge natural law that's what white supremacy is well it's a way to demonize an entire race of people to entire class of people I mean that's it's really bad shit dude like look at South Africa South Africa is an example that too it's really it's really ugly it's really ugly and the shame that comes along with that and it's understandable like you know to to you know I was saying earlier that you know how to how does a man find the strength to say no to a woman in his life just one knowing that she has the entire force of culture behind her so you're in your home with your wife or your girlfriend and she has feminist ideology right and maybe you're starting to wake up maybe you're starting to get a little bit redpilled maybe you've read the rational mail maybe you watched some 21 talks who knows maybe you've maybe you've read the way of men you know a thousand different things and you're starting to feel yourself wake up a little bit and then you wake up in the morning next to your girlfriend who's heavily feminized and you try to institute just a little bit of order in your house just try to push back a little bit on the boundaries and then how do you find as a man in that moment alone with with your girlfriend or your wife or whatever to say no knowing your girlfriend has what she feels to be the entire weight of culture behind her to just run you over and that's the position that so many men that's so many men are in is like that they don't have the strength to and I almost don't blame them because I was in that I was in that place too and you know thank God I ended the relationship because I knew that there was no way that it was going to be fulfilling to me but there are so many men that are husbands you know fathers even who are in that place where it's like how do I begin pushing back within the walls of my own home that's that's what's really starting to happen now is you know husbands and wives begin dividing along the jab issue and stuff like that and that's that even happened with Trump back in the day right before I'm divorcing my husband because he voted for Donald Trump and you saw that shit in the news sometimes oh for sure some of that was played up just for propaganda purposes but I'm sure a lot of it was a real too I mean that that a lot of it came down to that you know it's a couple years ago and now with the jab I have no doubt yeah it's it's sick it's stupid and it's unsustainable you can't you literally cannot sustain a country and a civilization beyond a single nation for a long period of time like this it doesn't work and like you know whether it's patriarchy is inevitable where you just have a huge economic currency crash and collapse starvation genocide on it who knows right no one can predict the future with 100% accuracy but like it's gonna break it's gonna break and it's gonna be bad and we'll see if people wake up and fucking learn a lesson this time mm-hmm well since you talk about patriarchy is inevitable I want to make sure to set aside some time to talk about the conference coming up in October because all these things are tied to what you're doing maybe not you didn't obviously you couldn't have known when you set out you know 15 years ago with the first one that it would become this you know you said it was a panorama event for life on earth for men or something like a panorama event but now you know what I tell men is what's going on at 21 is is way more important because as you say the Manisphere men are the only one men are the only ones addressing these issues of masculinity and femininity it ties into this encroaching medical bureaucratic state it ties into feminism it ties into everything that's going on ties into spirituality and religion as we talked about families like it's this it's become this really important really powerful thing that's grown so far beyond yeah you know what it started out as so I want to take some time to talk about the conference coming up in October and what's going on who you've got coming well allow me to begin by bragging into the Mount Horn that I have I have been a pioneer in the Manisphere and I don't get credit for it and I think that's pretty natural when you excel at pioneering at a really high degree like a Steve Jobs or someone like that right he believed that he never got the credit he deserved he's probably right with the revolutions that he did for better for worse right with iPhones and shit now black screens or black holes black mirrors yeah exactly but and he was he was very clear that no matter how many billions you make as an entrepreneur like you really never get you never make like what you have really earned you just don't you can't get you have to find value in what you do in other ways you have to find like reward in other ways beyond money is you never it's never going to be enough and is this the way things work anyway my point is other than saying I don't get credit for the shit I do but that this is kind of goes with the territory it's that I've been a pioneer in the Manisphere in several huge ways with a long running event we've talked about that the starting I've the first and only young men's event for men in the Manisphere the under-21 convention been at three times the first you know comprehensive event for all men that was not just pick up focus that was a pioneering move the first conference to be held on multiple continents right America Europe and Australia and then same year too in 2012 these are these are pioneering moves for this community that people take for granted because you think they're it's easy to put on a conference and it's not it's really fucking hard whatever the target audiences and whatever the places whatever you're doing it's going to be hard and then we do it international multiple times per year it's fucking difficult beyond that though I've been the pioneer the first guy building a conference or fathers in the Manisphere is secular that's like that's like a thing maybe the first time in American history that's happened typical that a lot of hotels were shocked they immediately said oh is it a religious thing I said no is this for fathers all of them and they're like really like they really were surprised by this multiple hotels are one of big hotels they have you know hundreds thousands of conferences you know every couple years through the years right that they deal with and they had never heard this before and I don't know if it ever existed because it's not a Christian thing and it's not a religious thing there are Christians at it speaking and this is an issue and other religions too in the audience and these things like it's I'm an atheist myself speaking at the events so it's that's a pioneering thing too and then we're also the first companies built the first Manisphere event for women started that last year and that might be the most revolutionary thing of all that I've done so far and certainly the media thought so when they attacked us in 2020 it went super viral and a hundred million people in the New York Times New York Post and that stuff that was huge because that as one blog identified secular patriarchy a super cool blog obviously linked to what we're talking about in a lot of ways even though I don't know the guy that really never talked to him but an amazing blog that's been long running in the Manisphere very long it's like a historian I would say at this point in the Manisphere but he analyzed properly that makeleman grade again was basically the first time in American history recent American history in modern even past 50 years where men stood up and we're going to say no to women no to feminism across a multitude of religions religious speakers non-religious is a secular event 22 convention makeleman grade again it's not a religious thing right it's for all women all of them black, white, Hispanic Asian, Christian, Jew I don't give a shit what you are all of you someone in America out of control and we're going to makeleman grade again and men are going to do it so it was a big it was the biggest I called it the biggest fuck you to feminism that's ever existed because it is it's a big fat fucking no all of it all of it stupid right and we're the only people doing that and I'm the one guy who had the balls in the man's fear to fucking do that and I got a lot of pushback not just from the media not just from the feminist not even just from the roller sphere even from with my own speaker group because the media the marketing was so aggressive and so polarizing it was people were like holy fucking Anthony what have you done I'm like and I'm like exactly me too I'm like now that everybody honestly though it was some real serious pushback and I had to fight and argue and I'm like no we're going to stick to this and we're not going to cave not even a little bit not even one fucking inch am I going to change this marketing for the feminists or anybody bitching at I don't give a fuck because it's true and it needs to be said and it's going to be said and no one's going to stop me so this is again I pioneered a lot in the man's fear and I'm really proud of that and that's what you're seeing now at 21 summit where it all ties together we don't have the young men's event operating right now it's really difficult to do events for young men because they just don't have money and you know until they're going to buy a flight and a hotel and come for three or four days and buy a ticket like it's that's really hard to do 19 years old right yeah but we have the men's event for men we have the fathers event fathers the patriarch event we have the women's event for the women now that has mostly male speakers that but even some females now too I allowed to talk to the women the mansplaining thing the mansplaining event of the century I believe in that and there was a purpose to doing that both for marketing and for I would say spirit or philosophy but I also think that some women need to talk to women too the Janus Fiammengos right the Suzanne Venkers the Jennifer Moleskis right unless Isaac speaking there too I would love to get Camille Paglia Paglia as well Paglia yeah maybe maybe even Christine Hoff Summers I'm not sure on that one but maybe but she considers herself still a feminist and stuff like that and we diverge pretty significantly you know after you know second wave feminism or she's she's like basically second wave feminist still but yeah I'd like to introduce you to Allison Armstrong she's been she's been talking to women about men for a very long time she's been very successful but she's basically besides Elliot Hulse no one's really heard of her and I just heard of her name yeah yeah so I just have a four hour podcast with her a couple weeks ago what's her brand she does the honey badger is that her no no that's that's Karen strong I think okay no Allison Armstrong just goes under her name packs programs the Queen's Code is her book but you know she's a I think if I had to guess she might she might find that make women great again messaging a little bit off brand for where she's at but certainly the things that she talks about you know like it's not unusual that there are women trying to talk to women to rehabilitate them in their relationship of men yeah like the victimhood mentality the resentment she called resentment in my podcast whether she said resentment is like the salami of anger like it's it's cured and dried and it's solidified more hardened you know it's like a really good way of looking at it and there are a lot of women that are really just Lori Lori Alexander the transform wife amazing to oh yeah for sure I interviewed her for two hours or more on my show about a month and a half ago I love that woman amazing and she's like like you're saying with Allison she's speaking to women and mentoring them which is completely appropriate right yep as much as women need mansplaining to be women and to be feminine it's a of you femininity is a very responsive and adaptive force to masculinity they still need women to mentor them to be women like that's really that's really fucking important and that doesn't happen at all almost at all today there's some exceptions like we're talking about but and in modern in everyday culture that is like all that evaporated right mm-hmm that a white I mean look at home act that's gone from schools now right for the most part and you never do you how many grandmothers do you think are teaching their only thought daughters or granddaughters science that are that literally these girls are 19 years old selling pictures of the vagina for five dollars in college do you really think their grandma's teaching them how to bake cookies and tend to garden of course not that it's are everything's falling off the fucking rails is nuts man these girls again fucked on Tinder 30 40 times a year they are not being mentored to be mothers and wives by their mothers or grandmothers that doesn't exist and that's for the first time probably in fucking human history that's happened and everyone's like oh that's come and they scream at us so you want to set back culture a hundred years you patriarchal bigot it's like we're all about to die like get back in the kitchen before we all star for death handmaid's tail right as soon as the second something happens like oh let me just try it out the handmaid's tail yeah you know imagery you know in the Harry Potter imagery and it's like look at look at actual reality you know what i mean like no one wants to no one wants to go back to son no one wants to create that for the first place and if that's your projection of what men are what's so funny is they're walking backwards into that exact same totalitarian mentality that's right it's like they're they're pushing this anti-totalitarian you know sort of message and then standing right behind them is totalitarianism projection thanks very much it's projection at an extreme level like yes like you're you're the fascist meanwhile they want to have merry government and big corporations like yo man i have a big problem of that that's this is fascism that's the textbook definition is a textbook definition of fascism you call yourself anti-fascist and you think you're fighting the establishment you are the establishment you're you're driving this country into the ground you're going to get a lot of people killed and you're fucked in the head and you're stupid so i think it's important that you have that you have both men and women talk at 22 convention because i think women it's one thing for a woman to hear a man now we're talking contemporaneously a man to say men are this way or learn all these things but to actually see a woman up on stage being i think they need them to they would need them to model wait you can actually be happy and you can be feminine and you're not some walking around some robot to some man who's telling you what to do because they have that fear the fear is not legitimate but they have that fear so when someone like Janice Fiamengo gets up there and starts and starts talking you know or or any of the other speakers or Jennifer Moleski or whatever it hits very different coming from them because they have because it's like no no like all your fears are illusions like just come across the come across the gap with me and that's really important to have it but it's also important to have men saying no this is who we are that's going to be what my talk is about you know is you know here let me see if i can attempt to tell you what what it is that's going on in the other room over there because you don't get to go in you know it's that kind of approach but women need to hear that from men they need to hear that from women but you're right no one else is doing no one even think to do anything like that what i what i you know takes a lot of courage to do something like that thanks man yeah and i want to say too that i view it as an all all hands on deck scenario like that's the war that we're in that's why i think that's why Christians like tend to ally with me a lot lately like tip i think along for i think a lot of history i'd be i'm gonna call i'm considered like a heretic and stuff right because i'm atheists whatever like well my aunt figured out that i was an atheist man she she's a hardcore catholic her sister's a nun i mean the i'll never forget the look on her face she like reviled this is probably like 2011 as in my grandma's funeral and i'm as very casually yeah i'm an atheist blah blah blah you know whatever i ran and she's just like but these days i have pastors speaking at my conference i get along really well with Christians so my closest friends are Christians like this is this is mutual too this is both ways like we're all going on the gulag together because we're all on the same side of this culture war and i'm very much in favor of religious freedom and patriotism and family and common sense stuff like masculine common sense masculinity common sense femininity you can go ahead and call it biblical femininity and masculinity i don't care like there's a there's a lot of really dark chic going on in the world and we need to find allies and make alliances everywhere that we can that makes legitimate sense perfect and uh i don't know what's going with this oh yeah it's all hands on deck though so women need women need it all fronts they need it from they need it a secular argument if they're christian and they need the secular and the religious argument they need it from men they need it from fathers they need it from women they need it from mothers they need it from grandmas everybody this is whole ship it's a fucking titanic going down getting the fucking lifeboat and get the fuck out here it's going down maybe right this is not a way to say that for sure well i mean just a couple points on that like the first thing is you're not in most atheists i observed this years ago it's not like they philosophically considered the nature of the universe and decide you know what i don't think there is a god it's really just you know a convenient way for people to be anti christian because they don't go argue if you're a real atheist why don't you go to the kumela festival with 150 million hindus and you go tell them you're all wrong there is no god or gods and you're all stupid they never do that but you know sam harris please by all means go tell them that they're wrong but they never do they get angry at christians like chris over hitchens who he's a funny guy but they know obviously but you know you're you're a philosophical atheists and that you've considered you found a philosophy that works for you and you're not on the war path against christianity so naturally you're exactly so it's a very different kind of atheism your objectivism technically yeah that's right i just say atheists because people don't know what the fuck objectivism is like what that's true yeah so it's it's a shorthand just to at least say i'm not religious i don't believe in your god you believe in your god cool i don't really care just leave me alone we'll probably get along fine maybe we should be buddies and fight the culture war together you know exactly well because it is that all hands on deck situation like you said yeah it's bad it's real bad a lot of objectivists the good ones anyway like which is it's there's a division even in objectivism which is like oh god it's uh it's it's just as as every other community man like politics republicans and it's it's a big division right yeah because a lot of them it they swing hard left or hard right iron rand was a hard right so to speak woman she was like founding fathers or the heroes of civilization she loved the founding fathers with a deep deep passion more than anyone else in history with the possible exception of Aristotle that's it founding fathers all of them right loved them and these put a lot of objectivists today we call them a leftivist because they're like fucking socialists which is fucking crazy iron rand had her political beliefs were essentially live free or die absolute individual rights automatic weapons absolute free speech all of it right and these fucking people are like basically like some of them supported by them it's crazy like Leonard Peacoff her intellectual and legal heir who controls her entire estate he heard he heard the former president of the iron rand institute say this like a year ago during the election he said you're one of our old speakers you're on Brooke he said if you vote for Trump you're crazy if you're an objectivist Leonard Peacoff came down like the hand of God he was like absolutely stupid the vote for Trump like he couldn't believe you're on said this wow and these are big these you're on Brooke is a huge popular objectivist man I know that name he was the president of the iron rand institute for like 15 years he spoke at our conference twice I couldn't believe it and no 10 years ago they wouldn't have said that but the culture war has polarized like everything else even objectivism which is like if you if you understand the philosophy it's really fucking ridiculous right it's like it's like it's like the equivalent of like and I'm left of this is equivalent of like a feminist Mormon or feminist like Muslim like it's just fucking delusional like it doesn't make any sense like you clearly have no respect for the founding documents in actual practice you know Michael Foster talks about that again you have honest feminists who say Christianity is completely patriarchal and incompatible feminism and then you have because they're hardcore feminists right like hey they're honest anyway then you have these Christian feminists are a bunch of fucking losers and liars they're manipulators and they really are the real enemy right at least at least the other ones in the open you can fight with and have some honest debates with these Christian feminists yeah they're fucking delusional your religion as I understand it's completely patriarchal all of it 100% not 99 not 50 100% from the god to the father all the way down to write fucking now so yeah it's just fucking nuts I don't know what's going with that that's totally fine what we were talking about talking about atheism and I have a my buddy Devin is also he's Muslim and he talks about because of the the Christlamic solar fate you know sort of like a caliphate you know the Christlamic solar fate like the Christian Islamic solar sphere you know what I mean so he talks about that so you know I think that there is a real there is and I say you know men who are spiritually facing like if you're spiritually facing it all and I think objectivism it's not spiritual in the technical sense but you have a you have a you have a higher philosophy that you that you that you describe your values to and I would say that's spiritual in its own way let's say but men who are spiritually facing I mean without it being actual spiritual spiritual right I mean in objectivism you have objectivism philosophy it's now not everything I ran said is objectivism people don't understand that she's the founder of objectivism the creator but she was it is in my knowledge to my knowledge having a soul is completely consistent with objectivism like whatever whatever that your consciousness in that soul ends up being that whatever it is is whatever it is so in that sense it is spiritual and very you know very it's it's a real thing it's very important her her thing with God is basically in metaphysics an epistemology and basically it's a rejection of faith subjectivism is like multi atheists like you're saying they have no idea the fuck they believe they're a bunch of assholes bunch of liberals and losers and bunch of frauds I hate Sam Harris's douchebag and I hate Sam Harris for sure a lot of these I hate those people and I hate it sucks that I get associated with them too because I'm an atheist like I'm like fuck this loser people hear atheists and they think Sam Harris or whoever I'm like no I don't like these people they're losers I don't associate with them at all atheism is not a religion we don't believe the same shit but anyway objectivism is a rejection of faith itself as a tool of acquiring knowledge God that's why God might exist this is consistent with objectivism if God exists God exists that's fine I don't that's whatever but no one can prove that and I don't believe there's any evidence that any human things ever had that can prove the existence of God you literally cannot yeah and that's why you have faith you have to have faith in Christianity and other religions in your God so that's it's a very technical issue and that's why I've also I've when I was young I was a little more combative not like Sam Harris and shit a little more combative with religion stuff back in about 2010 2011 but I've massively changed my stance on that and I was wrong and I need to argue this more with objectivists and stuff just to rile them up right but have some fun but for real what I've real people like you know Hitchens and those kind of people they would say you know a lot of those atheists it's say religion is irrational Christianity is irrational whatever I don't believe that at all neither because you're because the way you acquire knowledge and your theory of knowledge for Christianity faith is completely legitimate form to acquire knowledge you believe by the Bible is the word of God and if you believe that you have to act on that as knowledge that's rationality acting on the total sum in my view rationality is acting on the total sum of your knowledge to the best of your ability and if you believe the Bible is literal knowledge that you need to follow to be consistent to your beliefs you need to fucking do that whatever you believe this is why I get along with you guys the hard I don't like these soft pussy Christians these feminist Christians and these fucking beta males these pastors the pander to women and these single moms I hate that shit and a lot of the hard Christians do as well for different reasons because it's inconsistent with your actual belief system but for me I'm like they don't fucking practice what they preach they're just frauds that's why I don't like them I like hardcore Christians not as we agree on some things and disagree on others that's fine that's really cool to have these debates and stuff but like Michael Foster and stuff like this motherfucker is a savage he really really is tanner is the same way I love I have guys that people know me that are one of the guys I work with is a former Mormon and he's not like an anti-mormon like he still has a lot of respect for Mormons and stuff but he's no longer a Mormon he was raised I don't know if it was exactly but he was surprised though that like I'm an atheist and me and Jack on him both hang out with tanner a lot like I like tanner a lot I think he likes me we get along really well pretty sure and yeah because he gets that I'm like really intensely into my belief system and he is as well and so is Michael Foster and on down the line and that's why I like these guys but out in culture you don't see a lot of that it's like these people you know it was insulting when Obama called Christians Easter worshipers back in 2016 I think terrible but I'm like look now that's an insult and that's stupid but I'm also like that actually describes a lot of Christians because they just go to Easter they go to church on Easter and on Christmas and it's almost like they worship fucking Easter instead of Jesus like this is this is just a holiday I mean I know there's less significance to it but if you're going to church once twice a year are you really a Christian that doesn't seem compatible with like any denomination of Christianity almost like these people are just like like Socrates and I were talking about it the other day and it's like man if you believe in a supreme being with unlimited power that created not only you and everyone you know but the entire planet and the entire fucking universe you need to live in a way that respects that and that means being very very devoted to the maximum degree of your ability to those beliefs whatever your denomination Mormon Orthodox whatever man Catholic like live that shit that to me is also part of being a man and I think that's also again why even Jack Donovan gets along with Tanner you know Jack's gay or bi or whatever I mean him or joking on you tell us that we're both going to hell and we're cracking up in the Mormon faith we're both going to burn different reasons I'm an atheist he's gay but we don't believe that though so it doesn't matter to us we can get we went for a hike with Tanner and get along more than just fun you know good conversation and rant no I mean it's great because this is what it means to be this is what it means to be spiritually facing to have values right and that your values transcend your say ideology your politics they guide how you live your life and those values come from some higher come from some higher place whether it be a philosophy or a Bible or a God or something like that you're looking up not strictly horizontally looking up to some higher guidance for how to live and you follow that higher guidance for how to live no matter what because something precious in you is at stake for living that way and objective is and what you worship basically loosely speaking is reality reality itself and people try to confuse that as material reality they call us the materialist I ran hated materialism she made she explicitly attack these people no she viewed existence as all of existence everything that exists if a God exists okay that's part of existence and if he doesn't he doesn't ideas are part of existence souls are part of existence values are part of existence right I might not be able to grab it but it's it's we call it in redirectivism you call it a relational a relational entity and idea doesn't not exist of course it exists in your head it's represented maybe by neural connections and a little bit of electricity you can write it down on paper whatever the fuck whether you write it down or not doesn't determine its existence it still exists in the first place it just exists as a specific form right energy physical matter whatever the fuck will be the materialist would say like well love doesn't really exist because you can't touch it you can't measure that's so stupid yeah that's so dumb that's so stupid right and I ran hated all that she actually hated people need to study her man a lot more because she gets like Christians today she gets maligned for all this dumb bullshit so yeah these things she didn't say and all these false beliefs like she's a materialist Sam Sam Harris hate time rent that's one of the reasons I hate him he's just like he's someone who doesn't understand her even a little bit Jordan Peterson by the way is another one man there's a video you can go watch on YouTube Dave Rubin has Jordan Peterson in studio looks like about 2017-2018 and at that time I met Rubin around this time and Peterson Rubin had a big interest in objective ism he had to run Brooke on the show a couple times on our speakers by president the Institute they talked about objective ism so like a few weeks or months later he had Jordan Peterson in the studio and he asked Jordan Peterson about Iran's like one of the most famous modern philosophers to have lived in America right and from Russia and he asked he asked from Peterson about objective ism like what he thought about Iran's philosophy objective ism and Peterson fucks it so bad like I forget exactly what he said but it's really you can see Rubin kind of getting like what like he asked him some pretty specific questions like what his thoughts were on it selfishness ism that and you could tell Peterson had no idea what to say he bullshitted his way through it and I was very disappointed he wasn't aggressively against it like hit like Sam Harris this just basically propaganda bullshit but Peterson kind of pretended to understand it and it was like it's really cringe it's the most some of the most cringe should have ever seen from Peterson that's like when I saw someone ask him if he was a Christian and he's like well what do you mean by Christian and the guys like do you accept Jesus as your lord and savior he's like has to spell it out like like letter by letter so that kind of annoyed me too though with Peterson with that but overall I still like him I'd say yeah I think he really struggles with this position with religion overall that he's been sort of he's moving in a more religious direction certainly some of his interviews lately like he's been crying on camera you know which has been really moving to see in this recognizing that there's been some events in his life just to I guess a loosely paraphrase I guess that he wasn't able to explain with conventional means and so he's moving in a religious direction but I think he comes from a world where to acknowledge any sort of faith and Jesus Christ specifically is a career ending kind of move for him and so he's kind of struggling you'll be drummed out of academia if you profess a Christian faith like that's the fastest way out yeah that's crazy that's that's fucking retarded yeah for sure yeah well I want to be sensitive to your time as I know that you've got presidential duties to attend to but you know just give you the chance to say anything else about the 21 convention 21 summit 22 patriarchs because I do believe it's very important that men consider coming or come to these events you know this year it's essential yeah yeah your newsletter you put out like yesterday the day before like nailed a lot of it I really liked it I love I love what I do men it's like super powerful it's my life's work that's why I defend it so vigorously and people attack it and I attack them and all that it's one of the reasons anyway and it's the longest running man sphere event in the world I view the man is fear and I'm kind of biased but I view the man is fear is like the most important emerging movement in the world right now particularly in America because it's a great it's the only community addressing in important in a big way very very fundamental issues that I think are at the heart and center of why so much of culture across so many spectrums right is falling apart to shit right it's not just politics it's not just the movies it's not just TV it's not just woke culture it's not just BLM it's not just in Tifa it's not just it's all that shit and the man is fear is the only thing really pushing back the man is fear is the real counterculture not conservatism and all this crap no I've been to a lot of political events this year CPAC both in Orlando and in Texas I went to the turning point USA event in Tampa the rest acid that for students turning point big event thousands of people all these events I went to the the Libertarian event Revolution 2021 they kicked me out of it he's fucking feminist losers piss me off anyway politics is not where it's at it's culture we need to focus on and the man is fear is doing that and 21 convention is at the heart of the man is fear it's the face the watering hole that's what I think I wanted to say this earlier I didn't get a chance to say it but it's the watering hole the man is fear and that's why it's also competing power structure to the guys like the roller sphere that's why they want to hurt it but when I say watering hole I mean a lot of really positive things happen at it on a personal basis for the attendees who come they get to meet other attendees and build friendships and relationships they get to learn from the speakers on the stage officially off the stage in the first place I guarantee you if you see Jack Donovan at 21 convention and it's early in the morning and he's just walking around you can go buy him coffee and you can have a conversation with that guy or coach Greg Adams or whoever right and that will usually cost you a lot of money or Elliott Hulse Elliott Hulse is like a multi-millionaire man this guy has a lot of shit on his plate he has millions of fans to have time with him is really valuable the guy has a lot of experience in life they're free that's crazy I don't I don't make them do that I don't even ask them to do that they just do that the speakers you'll be there you'll talk with guys and your time is valuable so yeah there's a lot of there's a thousand if reasons to go personally like I love it it's my life's work I've gotten really good at it I still have a long way to go I'm sure in 10 years I'll be even better at it at the 25 year anniversary but it's the 15 year anniversary and it's gonna be fucking dope three events at the same time it's gonna be fucking dope and Mr. Will Spencer will be hosting the 21er port very excited I'm so excited about that I'm really looking forward to that yeah man you're easily imitation yeah yeah you're easily one of the best interviewers my video guys guys suggested it I was like damn that's like really smart let's do that we got Tony Bruno's and help you with it too but I think Tony is actually very excited about you doing it too he's gonna do some of them but I think you'll be able to do most of them it's gonna be fucking dope I'm thrilled these are men who have made a huge and you personally have made a huge difference in my life and I've said this in another I said this in my email like I really would not be here without without without you and what you've done with 21 because you know I saw the Rich Cooper talk the be better talk but then I just dove into the 21 material and Sean Smith and Doug McGuff and you know Jack Donovan all the different talks that you had put up and I think you said it was in the chest magazine interview which all or the piece that's all link in the show notes that you you had the vision of doing like the TED of the Manisphere yeah brilliant idea this idea like no I'm not gonna sell this stuff I'm gonna give it away and be that I mean what an incredible forward thinking approach to it that and another thing they don't think you get enough credit for yeah exactly thank you big point I appreciate that no one else does that people try to copy it and they don't they still fuck it up but yeah I want to say too that you know people talk about changing the world and they can't even change a tire for it all this kind of funny stuff I do want to change the world but that's not how I think about it right and the bios for 21 convention on Instagram and on Twitter for years I've had it on purpose it says let's save the West I want to save Western civilization and and usher it into help usher it with the men like you into a golden age into a much better age where we have like the best of what we've had in the past and but a much even more positive path forward right where feminism is dead and abolished and all this stuff right I want the masculinity of the Falling Fathers and the abolishment of feminism with technology like let's have that kind of world right that is rationality and reason are prioritized and very viable where we live in a truth age not a post-truth age right where facts really do matter over feelings what I want to say is though I don't think about changing the world so much as think about saving the West and I think about changing the course of American history and I think that the man is fear is the the central key component to doing that which is why I fight like a fucking beaver to defend it into push it forward and to build my events which are the beating heart of the beating heart of the beating heart so it's all comes down to the physical events because physical stuff is risky man and it's hard and I'm the one guy who's really fucking doubled down tripled down quadrupled down and doing that 15 years and I love it and guys gotta come out to it man it's a big thing especially in the time of social distancing and all these face diapers and the covid zombie shots and all this bullshit no we're gonna meet up in person and we're not gonna make out but we're gonna get really close like face to face like shake hands we're gonna get germs on each other and cough and whatever right who cares it's a real event man and there's never a better time to do that when the world the powers of the world and the elites and all these fucking celebrity weirdos tell you not to do that yeah fuck all that bullshit we live in Florida and Orlando and it's a free country still down here and that's what we're gonna do we're gonna walk that talk and it's a really well-produced event as well like it's not just some thrown casually together like the production values that you put into it you really go above and beyond you know to do something that's like a really professional level convention when I'm maniacal man I like I love Steve Jobs man how maniacal he was I don't care much of an asset was like absolutely the best shit I can do is what I'm gonna do before I die the best work thanks fantastic where can men go to learn more about you and 21 convention they can go to 21Studios.com we're launching our new brand new website there on Tuesday and they can go get tickets at that website 21Studios.com or the 21 convention .org.org not .com and they got about 41 days left to get tickets it's bring your friend free and the ticket price goes up every few weeks the currently the ticket price will go up on September 14th so they can save the most they can until then the price will go up and as even it gets closer the price goes up bring your friend free and contact speakers like well for a discount that's right and then where can they go to to find more of your scorching social media content they can follow me on most platforms at beach muscles so Twitter is at beach muscles Instagram is beach muscles 65 Facebook I think is beach muscles or beach muscles 65 pretty much as beach muscles like going to the beach and they'll find my personal accounts and YouTube it's just 21Studios to find it cool I'll link that all in the show notes well thanks so much Anthony this has been absolutely fantastic I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today and cover all the ground that we did thanks man it was a ton of fun it's fucking dope thank you thanks for listening to this episode of the renaissance of men podcast visit us on the web at renauffmen.com or on your favorite social media platform at renauff men this is the renaissance of men you are the renaissance