 So, hello everybody. Nice to see you again. We had a little short summer break and now we're back with Voice TV and with the next season of Voice TV. And tonight for the beginning of this new season, you will watch us of course once a month, some Monday in the month. And tonight we're opening this new season with a special guest from Aleppo. And his name is Issa Touma. He's a great photographer, curator, filmmaker. And as I would like to call him, he's an art journalist also. And his work is very, very interesting. And through his work, you can learn a lot about the life in Aleppo before the war, during the war, and after the war. He is also a person that has been in a way exchanging the artworks and also all the artists from the East and West, between the Middle East and Europe, particularly. He's been working as a photographer for more than 20 years. He's had a lot of exhibitions around the world. In 1992, he founded the first photography gallery in the Middle East called the Black and White Gallery. And after it was closed in 1995, he opened Le Pond Gallery, which is still working today, and where a lot of very interesting things have been happening, which we will talk about tonight. He is also the founder of the International Photography Festival in Aleppo, the first festival like this in the region. Now 25,000 people are visiting actually this festival during the year. He's also the founder in 1999 of the International Woman Art Festival. And also a very, very interesting project he will be talking about tonight, and that is the art camping project. I could talk a lot much more about his work, but now I just want to have a warm welcome to my dear guest. Hello, Issa. Hi, how are you Maya? Okay, so maybe the internet will be a little slow because of course the internet, yeah, but here is Issa. Okay, I'm happy to meet you all. I don't hear you, but do you hear me? Yes, very well. I see you, but I cannot hear you. Oh, that's very strange. I can now. So I have no idea who is here at the moment. Do you hear me now? No? Yes, yes, very well. Okay, I think I have to refresh. Okay, good. I thank you. I was talking about the bad internet and Aleppo, and we forgot the bad internet in Serbia. That's the issue. Yeah, so sorry about that, but I actually had to also restart my internet and computer, so I have no idea what was happening, but we're back. Yeah, so it's okay, I hope it will work well from now on. Yeah. Okay, so Issa, I had this short introduction, and welcome to our show tonight. I hope you're well. How are things in Aleppo at the moment? Life continues after the war, and people just busy with rebuilding and also with the life matters. So life become very expensive last year completely. So in the way people like become more poor, of course, and it's really difficult for them to continue in this way, like the level of the money go down a little bit, and this is make a huge problem for the public, especially things you come from outside, and this make really hard life for the Aleppian people. In 2016, when Aleppo united, they had people who had some money, they started renovating, they started to rebuilding home, and there was really optimism, but now it's not anymore because like me even, like I start to rebuild my home, and now I'm not doing that from long, long time, because I cannot continue, things are very expensive. And what about the situation with the pandemic there? How did it strike and how is the healthcare system there? How are you coping with that? The problem is not the rules. The government has asked people to become careful and things like that. But when you have some religious background, society, especially people who are over 40 years old, so it's almost impossible to tell them about the rules because they trust the gut and they don't trust the law. So, and this kind of situation is really a big problem for everyone, you know, even it's not matter, even if you income into Syria, they cannot work with the people who trust the gut only. This is this is biggest story, you know, so you can see people like very close to each other in the bakeries. We have a little bit bread problem. So in the in any line, you know, in any line you have if they want to get gas, bake bread, rice or anything. So you can see them very close to each other. Like when I stop in the line, I want to buy anything. So you can see behind me, I'm seriously telling to the people, no one come around me. So I'm the only person who like one meter all sides from around me, it's empty. But the rest it's all stuck to each other. But what about the vaccinations and the pro and the healthcare system and how many people are how is the disease spreading there? How do you cope with that at the moment? There is a lot of center like last few weeks, because they open many centers for people can get the corona like medicine. So and but the numbers of the people is not big, I think, because when I go to take it months ago, so I saw 35 people, 40 people only. But anyway, the system cannot deal with the big number also, because 35, 40 people, I think the small hospital where I was. So for them, it was big number. So they say, oh, come back tomorrow. I say, okay, we are just 40 people. And we cannot, we can do it. So in the end, we push the doctors to finish it. So it's kind of the trusting God, some lazy doctors and slow system. It's all will make it look really bad situation in Syria for this. Yeah. And also, and of course, the economic crisis that you're talking about at the moment. Yes, sure. Sure. Like, and there's number of the people they don't believe in corona until now. They don't believe that it's happening or something happening. Like one of my neighbors died in my street. So in that, in that, in that night, we hear later, it's just like 53 people die from corona. And it's like, like something in the war we never hear in one day, 53 people die in one night. So it's, it was really like big problem. And no one, no one want to take it seriously from the people. Yes. I think in Middle East, we have problem to follow rules and laws. It's really big problem because this is can come with the education. It's not coming with the other way. And what would because of course, before the pandemic, there were a lot much more news about the situation in the Middle East. And then when the global pandemic started, I remember that I was talking what is happening with the Middle East crisis. Nobody is talking about it. I'm of course talking about the Western media. It was it just disappears from the news. And I know a lot of people, I was talking a friend just another couple of days ago, and I told him that I'm going to do an interview with you and that I would really like to come to Aleppo. And you also invited me, which would be really great. And then he told me, Oh, no, you cannot go there. You don't know the situation in Syria is nothing now. Yeah. So so I really because of the audience, most of the people are not completely aware what is happening. Can you just give us a short little introduction? How is the situation now with the war in Syria? How is it in Aleppo? How are you living your lives? Is there any culture that is happening now? And how much? Yeah. Yeah. I can inform you that. I can inform you shortly. This, as I told you, it's earlier that people, they don't believe in this problem. So for me, as gallery, I stop all my activity at the gallery until 2022. Because I know if I make any opening, no one will wear a mask. And everybody like maybe one or two people will come between 200 people who will come to the opening will wear a mask. So for me, it's really a big problem. And I cannot, I cannot do that. I cannot make be responsible to be anyone affected from the COVID-19 and in my gallery. So I'm making private meeting with limited number. I'm making art camping with limited number of the people, like 10, 20 people. We know we are far from each other. So that's easy. But you cannot control opening. Opening because of the people until 2022 will open almost all the world. I say, okay, I will do the big activity next year 2022. Fine for me. Situation in Aleppo, it's no war from December 22, 2016. So it was finished. Also in almost like most of the city in Aleppo, except Idlib. And around Hasake, around Hasake, there is big problem between the Kurdish and the Turkish army. And Idlib, it's like a storage of the jihadists now. It's all kind killers, almost there, sitting there. So fanatics, religious fanatics, strange ideas, strange, even like we hear something we never heard in Islam before, about the Islam before. So it's happening. They are creating new religion kind of the new Islamic religion in that country, that part from the Syria. It's just one state from the Syrian, Syria is not the majority. So now you can travel also between Aleppo and Damascus safe. And you can go to the airport safe. Not so much checkpoint. So it's fast. Like before, during the war, we take 10 to 12 hours to go the clip between Aleppo and Damascus. Now we can do it in four hours only for our health. So it's different. This easy things, it's really good. But the problem, it's who is the like, expensive life, you know. So of course, people who had money, they go to the restaurant, they do things, but not everybody can do that. Yeah, still limited organization of UN working in Syria. Not like before sending help, but the situation in Syria, it's really like going calm in general. And what would you say? How is the life and the society different in Syria before and after the war? Because that is, yeah, the war has liberated the people's minds. I know this is a sentence. Yeah, that is really important. Yeah. Yeah, I will tell you something like in Aleppo society, people over 40 years old, they still dreaming to that the life one day will become better. And we should work to bring Syria as before, you know, as before the war. Of course, before the war was quiet, safe and things, but it was lot of fake society. Fake society, they was lying on each other. They was kind of the more religious society or not religious, let's say, acting as they are really believed but I'm really small, many of them because it's come the religion kind of the fashion in that time. So after what make the war, war is changed the society, not just destroy building and countries, is destroy everything they believe. So this is great chance for the people to choose another choice. There's a lot of people have another ideas, another way to thinking and they never get the chance before the war to express himself and to show what they think and to talk openly to each other. What I saw today on Facebook and things incredible that girls like talking about a lot of things, they're talking about the boyfriend, talking about sex, talking about the relationship openly on Facebook. And this was almost impossible before the war. And even like you can see swimming pool, wearing a swimming pool, going to swim and things like that, this was almost today that the young generation in Syria going very close to the young generation in Europe in very fast way. So because these people, they grow up without pass. They don't remember the life before the war to practice. So they remember the life after the war only during the war and after the war. So they are the generation of today and tomorrow. They are not generation of the old life we had before the war. So people over 40 years old, they should deal with them and definitely they cannot fight them because they are so strong and incredibly like amazing characters, owners. Of course, they will do a lot of mistake this generation. Let's make some example to make it understandable for the Western audience, like part from the hippies who make the hippies movement in Europe, after when they become tired from that crazy idea. So they become like the intellectual, they become professors in universities and things like that. So I meet many of them and they were so proud that they are, they was from the hippies movement in all time. And also later because this generation will have different experience, make him war make the people grow up very fast. So also that time freedom in Europe. So what happened later, they become kind of the, okay, enough, let's do serious things. They will make serious things much better than the old generation because the old generation full of complement, full of fake principles and fake stories. Not everybody of course, not everybody of course, but I can talk like good numbers from the society. They was really like that way. And I never like to come back to the life before the war because after the war I can see more hopes for developing the country in healthy ways. And do you see the West looking at the situation the same way as you do? Because I know in your recent work, the notes from Aleppo, you have one which of course all the audience will be able to have the links below on YouTube to see all your work and notes from Aleppo are really a great piece of work. We will talk about it a little later, but I just want to say here, you said that there was like a Christmas happening in Aleppo after the war and everything was coming back to normal and there was a flag, of course the Syrian flag, and you said that a lot of Western media did not react well to this. So what's your opinion on this? Yeah of course, Western media they don't want to say, they cannot say because 22 of December when Aleppo united, after four days Christmas was going on in the middle of Aleppo. So when I go to photographer to find out 80% of the people who come to the Christian celebration was Muslim people. So it's just four days after. No, not four days, two days after. So it's incredible, this story because even I didn't believe that will happen, you know, because I think for sure some fanatics they will not come, some people they will not come, and later I find out majority of the people they are not fanatic at all. So they come, everybody to dance to become happy, for first happy celebration, they didn't care if it's Christian or not Christian or whatever it is, you know. So they was all with the light and things and crazy things. So it was surprise for me also. So for Western media they cannot that fast, except that they lost. Because the biggest problem of the Western media, they take the situation in Syria as pieces of stone, it's never changed, only it's changed when they want to change it. So it's not possible because the society was growing so fast as I informed you about the young people. It's not just young people, all people become tired, they don't want to fight anymore, the other ideas and or other people's thinking way. So the Western media, they until like last week, one of the French important channel, they invite the same people who run away from 2013 to Europe and they was talking same stories and the same way they talk in 2013, because they didn't see all this, they didn't see all this development happening, they didn't know anything about it. One of the Western media's big wrong, it's that they are not open. They should open to all sides. And this is what I was talking about in my in my travel last four years to more than 120 cities in Europe. I was telling, okay, do not talk to me if you don't listen to all sides. All sides have stories. And all sides, they are not following political leaders from any political leaders. So the problem like we can see like some of our revolutionary people, they are crazy about Erdogan, who's Erdogan for us. They are not, they are proud with him. And this is, for me, it's very strange. And so people who follow these people, they will, because they are taking money from them, they will say whatever they want, these people. Of course, the same happened also in Europe, because they are taking some European money from some foundation, even cultural foundation, you know, it's amazing, they make this, you know, like one of the cultural foundation directors, she become very angry from me because I didn't take site. Even we work together like more than 15 years, but it's it's finished because they want me to take site. And to not take site, to not take site is confuse them, because, oh, this is dangerous. What is going to say? What is going to happen, you know? Yeah, they expect from you to say the things that they want to hear, you know, and they want, you know, as your gallery was called the Black and White Gallery, they want the Black and White World actually, you know. Yeah, sure. And also like the gallery, the second gallery I have at La Paune, it's a bridge, so also they want to make the bridge, but the bridge in the way they wanted, not in the way I wanted. For me, I find that from the beginning that it's really dirty game, so I didn't want to become site in this dirty game, because for me, I start to talk about only about the thing I saw by myself. That's why all my heroes in all my story, they are real people and they are acting normal way. There is no acting in the stories. There's people who are talking to me like I'm talking to you now, very free, very comfortable, sometimes scared, because like the woman, we have not lost yet all the story, because they are afraid, they didn't know the future, what is coming for them. So, but they was honest. And this is what important for me, because I decided to bring the stories of the trustful people, I know them personally. So they are neighbors, they are friends, they are people I know them, and I trust them, and I trust what they say. And this was the important things for me. And I think also what is important when we were talking a couple of days ago, when you told me that you, of course, we will now start talking a little bit about your work, not a little bit, but a big bit about your work, but you were telling me that about the media coverage, and about journalism, that you cannot talk about any country, Aleppo, Syria, if you have not been there in the last couple of months. And you were saying that you know, your coverage of Aleppo was until 2012, then you left, and then you were in Europe, and then you came back. And you told me, I cannot talk about the city in the meantime, because I was not there, you have to be there. And we know a lot of Western media function, that they look from the outside, not being there and not having an idea what's actually happening there with the normal people. Yes, that's right. And if you, many times in my lecture, I say if I spent more than six months, do not believe me, because it's the story become like Aleppo is changing that time during that six months, because worse situation life go completely like different ways. And it's become short, we don't know after five minutes what's going to home, you cannot give appointment, cannot do anything. And I was shocked like to find out like many journalists, there was just 15 days during five years war in my city. They come 10 or five to 15 days to Aleppo city. And they was keep talking about the Aleppo war for five years. And this is I cannot believe it at all that they are doing this is completely unprofessional. When I challenge them how you know, they say, Oh, we have trustful people. So you have trustful people have sight. So you are not telling complete the story, you are telling part from the story. And you are not saying to the people, Western audience that you are telling part from the story, you are telling, this is the full story. And Western people, for sure, audience, there was not stupid, because I think that why when I was lecturing in West, it was always full hall because people come to hear another story, because maybe they search, maybe they look at around, or maybe some friend, because I have a lot of friends in West. So maybe advise them to come. And I hear from one journalist, he say, he say, one of our diplomat who's with the like fighters who's fighting in Syria, like openly, but she advised me if you want to hear the other kind of story, apart from the crew, you should interview Issa. So I was a little bit really like happy to hear that, because not every day you hear this kind of advisor and like, or this kind of story from, from journalists, yeah. Yeah, we also have a question from the audience from Battle Madra, who asks you, how do people react to the Turkish military presence in North Syria? Oh, that is an incredible story. Without any like looking for the site, acting of the Turkish government make really like so much hate with the Turkish politic in Syria, from all sides almost, except the side who's taking money from the government, Turkish army, I mean, it left. So in general, most of the Syrian, you can be like, I know oppositions, I know people who are like pro government, I know people have no side ethnics and everybody, it's really, really hating that. And they don't know exactly the, the, because it's not sharp, the Turkish politic, what they want. It's just like, something like they come here and they don't know how to come out. It's really incredible, this story. And it's, it's like, like pain, but like it's something so hard to understand for the Syrian. And definitely no one I know, from any logical, he liked the country, he liked his Turkish friend, he liked, he liked, even like, we have friends in Turkey, like Osman Kavala, like, and everybody, you know, and that guy, he's in the jail from one year, we don't know why, like him 300,000, but no one can say anything to Turkey from Western media seriously. Maybe sometime you hear some critic, because he's part from the NATO. So if it's, if, if any country like front of West, the critic will not be serious. So, but in Syria, I don't, I'd never meet anyone like that position of the Turkish army in North Syria. Yes, I would, I would really talk to you about the political situation forever, but I would really like to also talk about your artwork, which is very important, because it is in a way a mixture of art and politics. Also, it's a mixture of photography, video, and media coverage. I think that your work is very important, because it's not only an artwork, but it's an evidence of what was happening during the war, and also an evidence what is happening after the war. And of course, all the recent things that you are doing now to bring the, the art back into, into a lack for in a way that it is supposed to happen after the war. You've done three very interesting movies. All of them we will link below. One of them, which I really liked, well, both of the ones from the war, I liked a lot. One is called Nine Days From My Window in Aleppo, where you were experiencing, well, you were trying to give us the experience of the war during the nine days you were filming. And the other one is Greetings From Aleppo, that has this really a little bit like even humoristic title, because it's like a postcard, you know. That's what I was thinking about it. It's like, here you go, Westerners. This is the Greetings From Aleppo. This is the postcard, what I want to tell you that is really happening here. And also, we will see a short clip from this movie, which I liked from the end. That isn't a little bit joking with the Western media, I would say. Yeah, actually, it's when I make the Nine Day, I get like, thousands of the question in every meeting with the audience in West. So because Nine Day, it's go, I think more than 60 festival it's shown and takes seven words, six, seven words. So that's why it was really like we should make another movie, explain to the people how is the life going. So that way come greetings from Aleppo to the light, because it's really answering every question they ask. Yeah, so I would really like now to show the first clip and it's actually the end of the movie, Nine Days From Aleppo. Of course, it's a beautiful part. Yeah, it's a beautiful part and I'm warmly asking the audience to look at the movie after our talk, but now we will just see the end and Sayed Ali began with a weapon, it was not a peaceful place at all. Are we back? Yes. And in the greetings from Aleppo, there is a very interesting part, which I would also like to show the audience. And this is the part with your gallery actually. Ah, yeah. Yes. And then, yeah, we can we can look at it maybe now and then you can say something a little bit about the whole situation with the gallery during the war. Yeah. And the art. What is it that you learn to walk like the rest of the children? The gallery I have is the meeting point. I always try to be open to each other and work together. Yes. Yes. I will tell you something about greetings. The people you saw in the picture, only one person left in Aleppo, all left out to travel out, still in Aleppo, only one person left. From the party? From the party? No one. I miss them all. Yeah. So they all left or did they, I didn't understand. Yeah, they go different directions because of the life story, some of them for studies, some of them for life, some of them for to find another opportunity. So it's for many, many reasons. And this this was all this party that we were looking at was actually happening during the war? Sure. Yes. You can hear bombing outside sometime. It's just like incredible because we make the music high because just to not hear it anymore. But it was bombing every second in that time. And people take risk to come to the gallery. But we need to meet, we need to see someone to forget about the war. So the gallery was a really great meeting place for not just young people, also for many generations. We create also something called a tea party. So we meet every week for drink tea just like that. We make very nice collection of tea and we talk about the situation, politics, have fun, talk with intellectual artists and some other friends. Yes, yes. So it was some kind of a little refugee place where you felt Yeah, also we did a lot of exhibitions. Like, yeah, I get the challenge later to make also the 12th International Photo Festival, which has happened completely during the war with hundreds of photographers from all around the world. So we show it part part by part at the gallery because we cannot take the risk to use our big building at the old city because there it was really terrible war going on. And also because like bomb come inside the building and destroy all my festival material. Yeah, yeah. So it's for many reasons we cannot do it. So I use the gallery for show that like to around 100 photographer artwork. Yes, and you I also asked you because you now said that a lot of people from the video left left Aleppo and you left the country and you also at one point were in Europe, but you came back and you you didn't want to stay in Europe. It's never passed three months in Europe like every like few months I come back again to Aleppo. Sometime for shooting sometime to make activity in my gallery because I didn't want to close my gallery at all completely. I didn't want to stay two years or like I had really long resident in Sweden, Gavle city, and there was amazing welcome from the city and municipality there. So but for me like I don't know how I don't remember how many time I go up and down because almost like every time I want to do something I come back to Aleppo and do it stay do it come to Sweden again. From Sweden I go to many countries in Europe so that's why I visit like a lot of cities and talk because when I am in Europe people easy for them to invite me. So yeah yeah and and I would also like to see the other clip from the movie Greetings from Aleppo with the about the media coverage and it's really really fun and also yeah you can tell us a little bit. I can make I can make 10 movies with a lot of fun about the western media what they were saying and what was the reality it's it's really so I was always almost laughing is that logic it's how they do that you know just like incredible in the same time it's sad because they don't know when you make fake news or you kill people in the war zone like incredible like British big magazine it's make like an article about Aleppo and say it's Aleppo is the city of cat and the skull and one million people was living there like if you if you make that kind article in the British important media and people will think there's no people in Aleppo left so they will not be sorry if the if the warrior get a bomb at the city completely but she'd like ignore it one million people she like just like put X on them and in her article show Aleppo like it's city of cat and the skulls that that not human I think you know and you should each one of them go to the court case because I think they lie without feeling any guilty yes yeah of course we we know about that so shall we watch this clip that demonstrates the thing you were saying yeah yes she was reading the news funny way yeah yeah she was yeah joking with with the way the the news coverage was yeah but that night the fourth sister they never sleep they was the bombing was very close in the way in the way they couldn't sleep and all of them in in the of course when in the morning come out for some reason always the fight to stop at 8 a.m. we don't know why so just like they bomb each other all night after four or five o'clock in the evening evening until 8 a.m. 8 a.m. everybody goes to sleep so it's it was amazing wash I never saw a war by timing yeah yeah it's interesting and also there is a very interesting project that you did also during the war called women we have not lost yet with 15 women that took refugee in Aleppo during the great attack by the radical Islamists you did photos of them and also you made the book the book yeah the book and we will also see a slideshow with with some of the photographs and you also have a new project that you're doing now because in this project all the eyes of the women were covered because of course you had to protect their identities so do you want to tell us a little bit about the project then we can see the slideshow of the women yeah there's of course big difference between the first book and coming books the first book woman inside you can see them they don't know anything about tomorrow there was a scare from the war they was scared that the fanatics they will enter the city and their life would change completely that mean no free dresses no even if the woman she's valid maybe she will put more things on her head and body so she cannot go out without men so a lot of a lot of like fear in the first book you can see also the suffer you can feel it from the accent like even 18 years ago when she say okay I will go to the restaurant as much I can because tomorrow I don't know if I can do it so it's simple things it's simple dreams not big dreams but it's it's big during the war because during the war when you wish sometime to have really clean water you cannot get that and you should have your dream to have like 15 minute electricity to charge your mobile you cannot have that and on the top of all these problems you can have you always scare that the fanatics will cross the city and equip it completely and the life will come completely upside down this is the first book of course the girls was incredibly strong and have courage to do this book because if in case the city fall down so this is will be so dangerous for them so but in the second book it's completely different it's about the new generation I talk about them girls still have not big dreams but you can see them more trusting himself more they know what they want but maybe they cannot get it but at least they know what they want they are strong they don't care about the the man's life more because they are they know that it's man's control let's say not man's life man's control so they know exactly they can work they can dress as they like and they can do whatever they like it's different even if they are religious girls or not religious girl they are doing what they like that exactly not what the other people want yes and shall we see also now a little slideshow of your first book and of course I hope we will see your next book when it gets out yes you say you have to unmute your mic yeah okay yeah okay yeah and we have a couple of comments I just want to read from Eva asked thank you Issa so nice to see you and parts of your films again you were such an appreciated guest as an artist at the residence during the two years in godless Sweden a few years ago we learned so much yeah she was the director of the cultural center the best one yeah so she is watching the show Kelly McGinn I hope I'm pronouncing this well says the solidarity to you Issa and your gallery and city and April say April Sanchez says I'm glad to hear news of this again thanks welcome yeah and so we come to really I was really fascinated when I watched your work notes from Aleppo which is actually a work you did after the war a series of story where you're rediscovering Aleppo after the war in 2016 it's also won the world press award in 2019 the thing I love most about it is that it is very interactive and you combine your photographs stories and also videos and there is a specific way I watched it on my computer not my mobile phone but you told me that on the smartphone you have an application so you can watch the stories in the way you want clicking and going from one story to another so can you tell me something about this project and why you did it in this specific way we start this project with paradox in netherland and because during the war I have really a lot of material in my laptops with a lot of image and things and all can be stories and movie but to make movies every month it was too much so I think it was the best way to make it in this way so you can you can make it more more story in the future so uh it's come out and I didn't know that I will get a word of the wordpress photo so when I go to the wordpress photo one of the Australian famous journalists he tell me okay all the people you critical in your lectures are around you today be careful everybody that why explain how they was looking to me some of the audience not everybody of course wordpress make amazing welcome and everything was really good the celebration and everything I enjoyed a lot but at the beginning when I entered inside the hall and welcoming first welcome just for the journalist and everybody I saw some people look at to me strange way because that's why maybe some of the journalists I critic them but I don't know how they look so in many many of the lectures so that Australian guy he was really amazing and he was explained to me what is going on that mean they was talking behind me in some way but I was happy that they can at least by force let's say not by because they don't they hear another opinion so not by nice way because I was so active in my lectures and travels in the way I did more than any intellectual can do it maybe in 10 years lecture my lecture number was really big yeah so I think they hear a lot about what is going on and what talk what I'm talking about yes and I think that people should see this because they will really get a sense of what happened after the war and how the rebuilding started and it also says a lot about art and culture in Aleppo after the war and the episodes are great with the people and all the stories of the people that you're talking about specific stories and the whole situation through this really intimate I would say lens yeah I think some of the stories it no one hear about like also the Baron hotel when they in entire like German media they say that completely destroyed and in my stories you can see it it's come after the war it's still there and the the owner still she's there talking about yes they have economy problem but no one destroyed the hotel she was surprised when I tell her in the media they say it's completely gone and like some of the artists who had pictures of the hotel they sell it the pictures with a lot of money because this is the only thing left from the hotel which get destroyed and so it's it was really like incredible development in wrong way but I think because also something healthy because I'm in in direct contact with west a lot like lot of western talk to me and ask me question and things like that so I compared our conversation with the things happening in Aleppo so that's why I can I'm always I have fresh information what I see it in Aleppo with my eyes and what I hear it going on in in the western country so also I read a lot of international magazines so that is keep me in in in contact what is going on in in in general in which direction going the information so always I think I that way I think it was much better messengers or let's say with the gallery name look on the bridge much better bridge between here and western country and so what bridge are you going to build in the future what what are your new works because you have this project called the art camping which is very active where you are inviting the artists from Europe to come to Aleppo and you're making this kind of artistic exchange between the Middle East and and Europe and other parts of the world and also you can tell us a little bit about that and also about some of your future projects that we would love to see in the future um I can tell you something I don't I don't plan for long distance because because I always like work for today most most of the time because I try to understand I try to see what is going on and for the future of course I have a lot of things to do like the coming woman art festival book woman art woman we have not lost the book under the name freedom of choice so it will be also two movies coming out it's really beautiful one of them the life of the three young people two girls one boy and they make a strong choice and really revolutionary choice for their life so there was three of them they was from really religious background religious society and after that they have another choice in their life so they didn't hide it they didn't make it the slowly things they they just choose and fight for what they believe it the new belief so you will see it I will not talk about that so much but because you will see it but in general maybe I can say something about what I do here what I do here it's like I believe strongly in the power of art and culture and this is important for me like I think art and culture can change a lot in the society and my work in my work I try to show that I try to show that many people in the books and after the books and also the project I have it they get opportunity they was happy also to get opportunity that other people hear them and this is important point imagine if we do that very large project in the future and make this happen with larger audience like big audience big lot of people because as I say earlier that the the war is not just destroyed the country and the building is destroyed the society so let's make big question we as artists we cannot stop the war machine because the political around the world when they want to make war in Syria Iraq Afghanistan we whatever we do we demonstrate we say no to the war we cannot stop it but after the war they get tired they sell weapon so they go to their country without care what happened to the people there this is why here come the important work of the artist and that is what I'm trying to do here like to be example in a small level but we have a lot to do for the society because the society when they stop believing about the system before the war they start to search about the new way of the thinking new way of the living so they can easily go like get control from the fanatics again they are not fanatic now but in long distance there will be controlled by them when you see united the state and western country like spending billions like 800 billions when I hear about Afghanistan I was sick I said okay how much get the artist in entire europe and middle east one billion no of course not it just like few million maybe euros you know something like that so imagine to use 800 millions in syria iraq and afghanistan for culture and art really we will have science intellectual we'll make everybody english and we'll make everybody like very nice and following the law the law and putting max for corona coronavirus so using mask in the everywhere so it's incredible it's how much will cost make simple project like okay if every young person from the new generation read two books from international writers or local writers important writers who are really important for the cultural life in the in the world two books and you get a hundred a hundred dollar will not we will have three new countries syria iraq and afghanistan with the new generation because half of these readers will affect from the ideas and they will read something far from the religious and they will change the society because they open their mind how much will cost that maybe not even one billion i hear i become really angry when i hear the budget they use it for war and the budget they they give it for artists and and everybody european country for covet 19 they give between 800 to 3500 euro like for the artists for living not every country some countries only what can make that money but they have billions for war yes okay let's let's tell them you you want you cannot stop you you want to earn money from the weapon do that even against that but let's make something after the war correct that to collect that it's incredible culture and art it's really important in a way i don't know they ignore and this is my work here and this is what i'm doing now and this is what i think even like even 10 15 people they get involved and they can do something and they can say and whatever they want and we can make the people hear them that's very important even i cannot pay anything for anybody because i don't have budget yeah thank you i don't know if i explain it right way yeah no you're completely you completely explained and i think this is a great message to uh to end our talk tonight because i'm i'm completely with you on this that the world would look completely different if we would spend money on things like arts culture like education like the healthcare system and of course the environment ecology and not guns wars and and global capitalism as it is so thank you is so much for for being our guest tonight it was really really a big pleasure talking to you and i also am really looking forward to seeing your next work and we also have people here that say that they're really waiting for the new stories about the communities in Aleppo that the notes from Aleppo is too long ago so we hope we will have some more notes from Aleppo from you and hope to see you in Aleppo also oh yeah you're welcome everybody welcome yes yes yes yeah i think i think it's the right time to visit it because of course apart from the city destroyed but still so beautiful because uh it's too much to see thank you thank you so much thank you for inviting me thank you