 Hey, and welcome to today's Healthy Marriage. I'm your host, Charlene Lammers, Executive Director for Great Marriages for Sheboygan County. Today I'd like to welcome our guest, John Leicht. He's a Chief Operating Officer for Leicht Furniture, a single father raising a family and running a business. Hi, John. Welcome to today's show. Thanks. Thanks for being our guest. Pleasure. So, you're a single dad raising a family, running a business. How long have you been doing that? I've been on my own as a single dad for about seven years. It was a period of time, a big transition for us in our company. In work, our business was transitioning over to Asia. The doors were opened up to free trade into the U.S. from wherever. So that was a big change going on, and at that time I had gone through a divorce. And it was a challenging time of my life. And I guess why I'm sitting here, sharing the story is because I went through a lot. You own your own business. You're working for somebody else. You're left on your own to raise children. How do you balance that all? I've learned some things, and hopefully I can share them. Not always easy, but overall things have really worked out. And I'll tell you that when faith became a more important part of my life, that really made things improve. You know, it's a unique struggle for the man to be the one raising the family. Yes. I don't even know another single father. There's a lot of single mothers, but not another single father that I've met. So that was a lot of unique challenges for you. Yes, but it was okay. My ex-wife and I talked about this. I think the fact that we had three boys, that the boys were better off with me. And I think that would be hard if that role was reversed in having a woman have to take care of three boys. So it's worked out. It was a good decision. The boys are doing well. They're fine. So how old are your boys? 17, 20, and 23. So they were some more teenagers when this began. Yes. I think that's a particularly difficult time to go through a divorce, a separation and divorce during those critical years, especially when they're reaching adolescent age, emotions run high. They saw their world turned upside down. It literally turned overnight for them. They didn't see this coming, and it just blindsided them. And I think the hardest, the one who took it the hardest was my oldest son, Stephen. He was 16 at that time. And that was a challenge because he was going through a period where there were some other neighbors that were going through the same thing that we were right next door to us, and they had children about our age, a son of that same age. And I think they saw what was happening in these perfect little families, and it was all blowing up on them. So I think he took it kind of hard. Through the years now, he's 23 now, he's really come around and has grown up to be a wonderful young man who's very responsible, and it kind of surprised me a little bit that after what he had all gone through, that he can still come through with faith, with his head screwed on straight, I'm extremely proud of him. So you can make it. It is no matter how difficult it can be, if you have faith and realize that we're not just living in this world, that there's something more and beyond this, anyone can make it, no matter how difficult. How long were you married? 21 years. We see that in our office, 21 years, there are seven stages to marriage, and that's one of the second most times that we start seeing people in the office, it's between 18 and 32 years, as the children start reaching that time when they're considering leaving the nest. It can be very challenging. I never thought of it that way, I just thought after 21 years I'm in this for good. I didn't see it coming. That's why divorce is so much harder with couples who have been married that long, that's a long time, because you think by then you've got it figured out. You've become stable, you have your little home and everything, you've got your plan and put in place for how you're going to live out your life, you become comfortable, and at that point it's hard. One of the biggest things in a long marriage like that will be finance, because you have your nest egg, and now you're carving it all up and you're starting all over. It makes it hard, but it's really not about the money and the things that you acquired. In fact, towards the end of the marriage I think we found ourselves consuming more than what we probably should have been. We try to make up for maybe the love lost with things to try to buy you happiness in this world. It doesn't work in a nice shiny new car or maybe having a nice new house, and you find yourself just getting caught up in that cycle trying to replace something that's missing inside. So 21 years, it's kind of a hard time to go through it, but looking back, if there's one thing I could say that could have improved the marriage and certainly on my side too, it takes to what communication. I really didn't understand how important communication is. Life changes. That's the one thing we can count on, and then how do we respond to those changes. And the only way you can with your partner is to be able to talk to one another. Get eye to eye and just share what is going on and how we're changing and the difficulties that we have and how we're going to respond to them. One of the comments that you made was that the voice didn't see it coming and it kind of just happened for them overnight. We find that to be common with a lot of the couples because, like you said, that communication is lacking. So the children are not hearing that dialogue, they're not knowing there's a problem, they're not seeing you work it out, or they're not privy to what's going on. They shouldn't always be either, right? But when you're having that communication, then you have a chance to work on what the problem is and potentially resolve it. And so a lot of what we find ourselves at Great Marriage is teaching communication skills because pretty much every couple who comes into us, even if they have a good marriage, they probably need to brush up on communication skills and make them a little stronger to know when there's some kind of unhappiness or somebody's not feeling loved or there's some kind of issue that needs to be discussed. So what was the biggest challenge that you had to make going from being married dad to a single father running a household? Oh gosh, I had to do everything. Just like that, I was doing all the laundry and the cooking and the cleaning. And Darien, my ex-wife, was an amazing mother from this point of view. She just would really take care of that household. And now I had to do this all. And I had to change my life. There was really no me time at all. That all disappeared. So there was no time for the gym. There was no time for hanging out with buddies. There was none of that. I got up in the morning and I had to get kids ready for school and get them out, then get off to work, take care of business, get back home and start it all over again. So just having it all thrown at me very quickly was difficult. But it made me a better cook. Did you find that the end of your relationship in going through the divorce affected you at work? Oh yeah. Yeah, there was a hard time. But I've got a loving family. That was around yet and mom and my brother and sister and my partners in business. They were there and very supportive of me. But could I see that in my performance? Absolutely. You can't get that out of your mind. And it's not just me. I've had so many employees over the years that have gone through a similar situation and we would just talk in my office. And I know what they were going through. You just have to be patient. This too will pass but when you're in the middle of it, it seems like the world is ending and nothing is as it was. And I was just another one going through that. Maybe all the same stories I heard before but now I was living it. So it's just a common thread. There's always some reasons why it happened but it just did happen and you just have to find a way to fight through it. My best advice to my employees and to myself was just despite of what's happening, try to focus on the work. The best you can. Do the best you can with it. Because if you keep your mind occupied, that's okay. Get through the work day and then go home with the children and do the best job you can there. You had mentioned that you were fortunate to have your family with you at work to support you as you were going through the process and to be patient with you and loving with you when you needed it. How much harder or what do you think that's like for a person who has to go to work who does not have that family support, that patience, that love and care that they need? Oh gosh, I can't even imagine, I'm blessed to have, I was born and raised in this area so I have my family but imagine yourself coming from the outside and maybe moving in here where you don't have all that family structure you can lean on. Well you can have your friends, that means a lot and when I went through this I found out who my real friends were. Because a real friend will never judge you, a real friend will be there and listen and help you and guide you. So it's hard for me to imagine not having that family around me but if you don't that makes it all the more difficult and probably all the more reason why they may want a mentoring program like great marriages might be a good starting point. Do you find that perhaps you are a better boss to those couples or those people who are going through this situation at work that it has allowed you to have a different perspective? Because statistics show that when there is a divorce or severe problems in the relationship it can affect work productivity for up to three years. Do you find that this is enabled you to maybe be more patient or understanding or in any way help somebody at work who may be going through this after you went through yourself? Sure, I think you have empathy, you understand what people are going through. Three years though, productivity loss, oh my gosh. I would hope it's not that, but actually my separation was somewhat long, it went on for almost a couple of years so maybe that statistic is not too far off. That's what it's talking about from the time the relationship fails to the time after the divorce. You know, during that time the relationship is failing, you're separating, you're divorcing, you are divorced, you're coping with getting used to your new life after the divorce. So that statistic incorporates all of that. Sure, I can see that, but you have a job to do, you still have to do it. I mean, is it going to pop up in the middle of your day and bother you if it's coming up that frequently, then you probably need to talk to somebody. Everyone has a job to do, you can't just roll over and say oh, it was me, you still have to, you know, you get up the next day, you have a bad day, you go to sleep, you get up the next day and you do it all over again. I mean, that's what you have to do. I mean, no matter what job you have, because this is kind of a tough society, you know, it's not easy. And there may be people that are not that empathetic about your situation, that are very results driven. So you have to do your work. Will you be on your top of your game every day? Of course not. But if you get a couple good days, you know, in there, and then maybe a few good days, it grows. So you have to do it. There's no choice about the matter. A statistic show also that health-related costs, you know, are increased during this time because of stress-related illness. And did you find any of that was the case with you? No, not really. Probably the biggest thing is I didn't get to hit the gym as much as I did and watch my physical health. I had to give that up. That was the first thing that went. I just didn't have that time for myself. But no, health-related. No, and I thought I saw physical, mentally. I suppose we all, you know, get some stress from that. Does it shorten us our life? Probably a little bit. I went during the separation and the war, so I did go through some therapy. And I met a wonderful guy that really helped guide me through, that helped me get my feet on the ground. But, you know, right at the time that I was going through the divorce, you were, you know, founding great marriages. Mentoring program like that could have been really good. But, you know, I gave it a try. And it did help me somewhat because you do feel it. You know, you don't always sleep very well. You do worry. You get scared. You know, what's my life going to be like? You know, for me, it's how am I going to survive this onslaught of foreign goods coming into the country? How am I going to possibly raise these three boys by myself? It's kind of scary. But I just prioritized, put my kids- How did you prioritize? How did you prioritize your time and balance it between the kids and work and everything that you had to do all by yourself? Well, clearly, children come first. Faith comes first. Faith in God and faith in Jesus. That's what's going to strengthen me to do the right things with my children. But I had to balance, you know, the workload. But I'm fortunate, you know, I'm self-employed with a good family structure around me that can work with my strange schedule. You know, I still have to go to soccer games. I still need to be present in all the things in my children's lives. How do I do that? You know, it was just very supportive that I had my family. So, I guess the transition was easier for me than what it might be for someone else. It just was okay. Not easy, but it was okay. Do you think if there, you know, great marriage has been around seven and a half years, do you think if there was an organization or if it was more prevalent and you knew about it at the time, because that was about, we were just kind of starting when you were, you know, divorcing. But if there had been something there that you could have turned to, would you have turned to it? Could it have helped you? Oh, sure. If I would have sold your billboard, you bet I would have been on that. Your billboard's like right across from my business. I'd seen it pop up there. Sure, of course. I would have, you know, looked at any opportunity to get some sort of assistance, guidance, mentoring. Yes, I would certainly have been there and, you know, from what I now know about great marriages, you're really growing and making a difference in many people's lives. There's a big demand out there for help. I think we've got this lost generation, this baby boomer generation. What I have seen in dysfunctional families and divorce, it's beyond anything I would have ever imagined. Raised the way that I was, you know, with mom and dad, loving family, never imagined all this. And, you know, when I was my children's age going through that divorce, I didn't know anybody that was going through divorce. I didn't know anybody that was facing these kind of problems. So we've got this whole generation of boomers that have been unable to make these marriages work for whatever reason. So there's a great challenge, you know, for our kids. You know, it's really going to be up to our kids to turn this around that you really can do this. You don't have to have fear of marriage that you can enter into a lifetime commitment with a partner and it should be beautiful and it should be, it should last. It can happen. And with, I know I keep saying this, but, you know, with faith, anything can happen. Mountains can be moved. You still believe in marriage then? You believe in... Sure. Of course I do. You know, would I love to have it happen to me? Sure. Of course I would. With things change, you know, if I'm blessed, of course, you know, I want my three boys to fall in love. I want them to find that partner in life that they can go to their deathbeds with. I mean, that's kind of what I had in my mind. I know it can be done. There's a lot of successful marriages that are out there. So sure, I've got great faith for my kids to do that. I want them to do that. That was my question. My next question was, what do you want for your children, for your boys, for their relationships, for their marriages? And how can, and you answered that already, how can you help them? Because all marriages, you will struggle. So if they someday get married, and like you said, hopefully you believe they will or you want them to, they will have struggles. All marriages do. So how can you help them, or what advice do you think that you could give them or other people to help their children? Because you're right, our culture is shifting away from it. How do we bring it back? How do we, you know, solidify the importance of the foundation of the family and our society and our community? Good by example, you know, that's pretty much it. I mean, you have to, you can say the right things, but you really need to do the right things. So I try for my boys to try to lead my life with a good example. I have chosen how I live my life, how we conduct ourselves in our home and on the outside. And hopefully that rubs off on them. You know, that, I think that is really it. I mean, just, they're going to see what you do every day, you know. What are the kind of things we talk about when I get them alone and we have dinner together. And they start to have their relationships now, you know. Being 17, my youngest son doesn't have a girlfriend yet. That's okay. But my middle son, Patrick, he has a wonderful girlfriend. And so it's nice to be able to have dialogue, you know, now about their relationships. I want to help, you know. And I see good things going on in all my kids' lives. I'm actually a little surprised how well they have come around after what they've been through just seven years ago. So they're, I think they're pretty balanced, but you really have to set a good example at home. Yeah, be stable. Don't be drifting from one place to another. It's difficult after you go through a divorce because you don't want to be alone. You want to be loved again, and you want to love. And so it's, you have this desire for it. So you have to be a little bit careful and be patient and somehow bring stability through this all that you don't take your children through even a further rocky road by jumping into relationships that have not been thought through, that you are not sure of the direction that they're going. So I think patients answering your question is just I try to teach my kids patience and, you know, pay attention, you know. And if they do that, usually the truth is revealed in any kind of relationship that they might be entering into. I think that you can speak to the success with the stability of your kids and how they're adjusted and how they're doing OK now to your conscious effort to make that the case for them. To be that kind of example that they need to be a good decent moral person trying to go about your daily life the best way that you know how. What would it look like if you were to be in a serious relationship? And at what point do you think you would allow the boys to come into that and to know about it and be part of it? That's a really good question. Because our goal is that people would think about that ahead of time. So it wouldn't be reactionary, you know, like I'm in this relationship, you bring the boys and then later on it doesn't work out and you say, well, I probably shouldn't have done that. Or to your point, you do it too soon. You know, it has to be a conscious choice that this is now a good time and this is why I'm going to do it. Yes. I'm going to go back to patience. And sometimes you just have to, you know, guard the children too. You know, I'm just like a big Papa bear, you know. And you have to, you know, kind of keep them guarded from all that stuff. They don't need to know, oh, I met some girl or whatever and you know, this is all wonderful and you just can't drift in and out of those things. You know, as much as what you want to, you do have to insulate your children somewhat from what you're going through, the emotional ups and downs of wanting to find love too. Make it clear in your own mind first where you're going before you break that to your kids. Make sure it's worth it. Also, I think I've talked to many people, a lot of women, a lot of women are pretty smart here, is that they know that those children come first and they will put off that relationship till further in life, till the children are old enough, they're mature enough to understand it. Now, that may not be for everybody, but that's kind of the path that I have gone down. I have not jumped into those kind of relationships and brought women into my home or anything like that. It can happen different ways for different people. I mean, if you were just so fortunate that the stars aligned and you found the right person in your life, my goodness, go for it, you do. But it doesn't hurt to have some patience and protect the kids, and if that means that you have to keep things on the down low for a while, that's what you do until you're sure. We talk about that when you're single after a divorce and you're dating again to date with a purpose, to be purposeful when you're dating and to not just get into a relationship too quickly, too soon, too fast, especially with certain circumstances where you perhaps have a live-in boyfriend or a live-in girlfriend and the children are present in the home to be conscious of that always. Yeah, that would be challenging. I've not gone down that road. That would scare me a little bit. But I came from a different place. Raised a Roman Catholic, you just didn't do that. Okay, and we're going to have to leave it at that for today because we're out of time. But it's been wonderful having you on my show. Thank you so much for joining us today on Healthy Marriages. And thank you, Charlene. I appreciate you having me here to share my story. And thank you for joining us on Healthy Marriage. Check out our website for upcoming events. Remember, marriage, it does matter. ["Hail to the Queen"]