 Hello everyone. Thanks for tuning into the video. Just a reminder that we're doing a fundraiser for animal sanctuaries by selling Joey Carbstrong apparel. 100% of the profits will be donated to animals. So if you'd like to get your Joey Carbstrong T-shirt or hoodie, please follow the link to the Shopify store down below. Enjoy the video. Okay, muffin. We're gonna do interview today, okay? We're gonna call people out who aren't vegan who love dogs. So this is my mate Andy and this is Hanson Boy Muffin and we're gonna talk to people who aren't vegan but love dogs. We're gonna expose some hypocrisy today Let's see who sits down for a chat. Hey Muff. Yeah I might be going in like two weeks or so, but I can sit. I'm Joey. Martin, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. So the sign says If you if you're a dog lover and you're not vegan you're a hypocrite basically. Do you agree with that? I don't agree with it. Okay So let me tell you my position on it. So it's a little bit clearer I'm saying that if you love dogs, it's for specific reasons. You they feel pain. They suffer. You wouldn't want a dog being hurt You see different personalities in dogs. They react to have different Wants and desires and this dog over here with the the tennis ball is happy now Panting okay for those same reasons we should extend that to the animals that are tortured and killed for your consumption But if you don't I'm saying that you're a moral hypocrite because you're excluding all these animals that that Inherently are the same as dogs, but only look different and we've chosen them as food animals But we throw them in slaughterhouses and chop them up when we say that we're basically an animal lover or a dog specific lover That is a very good point. And I do agree with that. You okay. Yeah, like it is kind of long to do that but I feel like I Feel like we should um morally like Reduce meat consumption, but I feel like because in my opinion everyone in the future Like in the future everyone will be studying less and less to me to my opinion Just I think that's gonna happen automatically just because of the growing population You know, it's much more efficient to grow vegetables and fruit than is meat Yeah, of course it is. Yeah, I believe that that should be done. Yeah, because especially um I'm not sure about Australia. I know America produces more wheat than it needs. So that's something we should aim to yeah We should aim for that like though most of our land is kind of like non-farmable, but Most of our farmable land is used to feed livestock with grain and soy and all those things. Yeah, I think we have like yeah So I think we should um Reduce your position is your position is reduced basically is that what you're saying? I think like the thing is um I think we'll all automatically studying less meat because I think that's generally the trend. Yeah, okay So that's what's gonna naturally happen anyway I'll get it But in principle you agree that you're a hypocrite if you're a dog lover and consume other animals that are just like dogs Yeah, but just look different. Yeah, so you agree with the premise here of this discussion Kind of but when you say all animals are inherently the same they are similar I wouldn't say inherently the same but okay for the let me extend that Inherently the same in the ways that matter like sentience conscious, you know desire freedom and they don't want to be hurt and you know Otherwise they're not an animal. They're a carrot Yeah, yes, that's one way of saying it but yeah, yeah So if you're not a vegan you're abusing animals through your lifestyle. There's no way around that They're being a use for their flesh. They're having a flesh torn off their body, which is abuse. They're being Tortured most of the time in farms and then they're being murdered in slaughterhouses. This is animal abuse So my position is that you're not only a hypocrite, but you're an animal abuser if you're not vegan So would you say that anyone that just eats meat is an animal abuser? By their actions 100% they are there's no there's no escaping that you're paying someone to stab animals to death When you purchase meat or consume meat, you're you're propagating this Supply chain of animal abuse. So you're culpable for that. Yeah, but I just eat meat just because it's um partially based on culture tradition and That I treat stuff like that. Yeah, but I get it. I would never ask you to reduce Something that is an injustice like stabbing innocent animals to death. I would never tell you to do that I would tell you you have to be vegan Just like I would never tell you to reduce racism or reduce domestic violence or reduce the times that you rape a child I would say stop doing it completely. It's an injustice in the same way I would tell you to stop abusing animals So I would never tell you to reduce and culture and tradition has never justified anything. That's immoral I mean look at what's cultural racism is cultural in some place and it has been cultural Slavery has been traditional human slavery. We would never use those things as a justification to continue to do something That's inherently evil. Would we yeah? Yeah, so this this is a rights violation and a justice issue. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I kind of do feel like um in a way like there was kind of a cycle of life The circle of life. Yeah, so yeah, do you know where the circle of life come from that phrase? He was the Lion King, but there's probably something before it It came from the Lion King. So you're actually using the Lion King as a scientific source here They were in biology talks about the circle of life. Is there nothing before it? It's a song by Elton John in the Disney movie. Is there anything before it? No, there's there's maybe the food chain, but there's no circle of life. That's a song by Elton John See, this is how you're programmed You've been programmed by the TV. Oh, yes No, that's okay. So was I I thought the circle I only just recently learned as an activist that the circle of life came from a Disney movie called the Lion King See how they trick you into thinking that you're a lion No, but but they trick people people actually come up to me and go what about a lion? They think that they're Simba from the Lion King Okay But we we can eat plants. We're obviously herbivores in our biology and we have no predatory instinct whatsoever like when we see What do you mean by herbivores and biology like we we don't have any Carnivorous traits like we don't have claws. We're not streamlined. We sweat. We have blunt teeth We evolved from I think it was um natural geographic or something. I must have seen on TV, but I think it was the fact that um We started cooking meat that our feet that our teeth began. We started cooking food cooking food that teeth not just meat We started cooking our calories so we could get processed more Carbohydrates our brain runs on glucose not on meat Yes, but our teeth did like kind of evolve to eat meat show me These are blunt and flat Okay, have you seen a carnivores on an omnivore's teeth? They're much sharper These are these are these are very these could be eating tubers things from the ground root vegetables and apples and you know hard fruits We need some sharpness, but we don't rip and swallow like a carnivore does No, but we have kind of evolved to eat meat No, we haven't because we don't you don't have no biological adaptations to chase down prey Doesn't mean we haven't still evolved to either some type of food Just because you can eat meat doesn't mean that we're designed to eat it like I can eat shit too Like I can clean some shit and I can eat that shit You know that might have been my only food source in a survival situation just like rotting carcasses were You know we're opportunistic eaters we eat what we have to survive Yeah, so when survival isn't a justification what then you can walk in a supermarket and buy whatever you want You don't have to murder an animal to rip the flesh off their bones to eat do you I guess I don't want well, it's a choice move off Yeah, so you're choosing to be cruel to animals when you do that and I'm saying that dog lovers who do that are hypocritical animal abusers I guess if you pointed to the animals but not the dogs because people see animals I'd say people definitely see animals as different Yeah, because they're supremacist in their mindset towards animals we think that we are the supreme animal Okay, so anyone below us we treat like however we want we decide who lives who dies who we treat kindly like dogs And sometimes we don't sometimes we kill dogs we euthanize them here in Australia if they know if they don't find a home It's a human supremacist attitude the same attitude that we use to enslave and kill each other we use that for animals Yeah, that's true Because you look at animals so far below us like who gives a shit about a chicken I do I do a chicken wants to live they sent it but you probably have been programmed not to I mean it's like well everyone sees value differently even in people you'd see value differently Of course but we've never denied the rights of someone who we deem we don't like or they're not as smart as me or they're a different colour Or they're from a different culture you know people used to think that about and racism still exists You know you know and it's evil that mentality we have to you know so I'm saying that the same mentality you have towards animals is also evil You might not see that yet but it is because it justifies something that's abusive and cruel Do you have anything to oh no this is like a truth bomb city the first time you thought this through like that I'd say my mind is pretty ingrained so but you do make very good points I think like we all have like different most samples and in my opinion like we just need to Maybe it's the incentive or like to eat meat or Yeah, but yeah like I said before in my opinion everyone in the future meat consumption will probably decrease significantly Most of us will be probably vegetarians or vegans in my opinion Well I'm a vegan you know I'm a vegan Obviously yeah, for all the logical reasons are discussed and for the ethical reasons are discussed And I think that no evil lasts forever people are going to wake up to it People like you smart people with a heart are going to wake up sooner or later that no injustice can last forever Especially with the freedom of information that we can spread across online And I've got a bunch of graphic footage here from across Australian farms and abattoirs You probably don't need to see this I mean I don't think you have some illusion about what happens in a slaughterhouse do You wouldn't want to be in a slaughterhouse if someone said oh will he taste good or culture or tradition You'd think no that's bad I don't want to be there Yeah of course So these animals don't want to be there either and we're breeding them for this specific purpose to murder them But thank you so much for the discussion mate Sorry do you want to continue? Okay well is there anything that you can raise to me that would justify doing this to animals? I'd say the only real reason could be Either you have to eat it as part of a diet or culture or tradition which might be like And you disagree with it but in my opinion there are some cultures and traditions that people should be allowed to keep Of course unless those cultures and traditions violate someone's rights then they can f**k off Because in the future like when everyone's more vegetarian or vegan My opinion like some people should like I'd say like the Inuits, Native American tribes, Aboriginals They should still be allowed to do Because there are things more of how would I say it's not like They're more of just eating just enough to feed themselves My opinion is like an over-commercialization of eating meat That's not the problem for me So you cannot use culture and tradition unless you use all of culture and tradition You can't just say our culture justifies something evil and also we should keep it because there's good things in culture I'm not saying all culture is bad I'm saying you can't use culture to justify one specific thing Because it's a logical fallacy You know what I mean? It's like appealing to nature And saying well nature justifies eating meat because animals do it in nature Well then there's evil things that happen in nature Good and bad happens in culture too, doesn't it? Well when you say good and bad in nature I think like what do you mean by that? Good and bad happens in nature? Well animals rape and kill each other? I think animals are more animal than good and evil in my opinion Not from the agents perspective, from our perspective From our perspective walking up and ripping someone up with a zebra stripe T-shirt on We wouldn't do that in civilized society So when we look to nature and we go lions do this, I can do this It's a logical fallacy And then the same way when you go culture or tradition we've done this Therefore we can continue doing this It doesn't make sense, it's not a moral argument Because slavery was cultural, female genital mutilation is cultural Racism has been traditional We wouldn't continue to those practices because they're either cultural or traditional How would you feel about native tribes just fishing in? If I was talking to a native tribes person and they had nothing to eat out there I would say they'd have more of a justification than you So you have no justification, yeah? Let's just get that off the table, you don't have any justification Like you personally, then we can talk about the tribes people Do you have any justification yourself? And we can talk about tribes people after you I wouldn't say I do You wouldn't say you have any justification to eat animals? Animal products that abuse and kill them? I'll just say no That's safe because I've never heard one Not one that justifies what we do to them for it So for tribes people they have one thing you don't have They're trying to survive That's why I think they should be allowed to Well I don't know if they should be It's hard for me to say Like look, if you and me and you were stuck in a jungle And we were both dying And you were starting to get desperate And you started looking at me going f*** If I speared him and ate him, I would survive You have more of a reason to do that because you're about to die So these tribes have learnt to survive and do what they can And eat what they can But let's just say the world progressively moves towards veganism And we start looking at animals as individuals Once the western world and China and all that Start abolishing these slaughterhouses I know it's quite a utopian idea right now And we can start thinking about tribes people too Maybe we can start bringing enough food to them You know, enough plant agriculture for them And things like that But right now, why would I talk about these Inuits and people that are in survival situations When I want to talk to all these people That literally have no reason or justification To abuse animals through their lifestyle I'd say no justification but I think reasons are a bit different Definitely no justification in my opinion So the reasons don't justify it Yeah, reasons are more like I think reasons are much more personal And justifications would be more like Efficer and more Yeah, I agree I agree with you there for sure Yeah, reasons that taste good I don't know about the industry I think I need these nutrients out of this meat When it's the load Which obviously the science is not on that side You can get nutrients from plants Or non-essential amino acids And everything except for B12 Which is added to all the food anyway And is injected into the animals anyway Which you can get a supplement for very easily So that's really off the table But we can finish this now With saying that you don't have a justification For abusing these animals So would you say that you're going to stop? Probably not Probably less meat in the future But I'm more following the true end of... You're following what's popular And what other people are doing Instead of having your own moral compass That you live by I suppose you could say that That's pretty accurate I wish you had a bit more courage And confidence to go your own way And stop abusing these animals But you agreed that... I wouldn't call it courage and confidence What would you call it, lazy? No, not that What would you call it? I don't know, courage and confidence Don't sound right to me though Because you're appealing to popularity You're following the crowd You said trends Who cares what everyone else is doing If you've got your own moral framework If you think you're an animal abusing hypocrite For eating meat and other animals You agree they're sent in and don't want to die And they suffer You're basically breaking your own moral framework To go with the trend Moral framework You said that you're abusing animals Are you against animals? Well, let's find out if you're against abusing animals I think If you can abuse in the like Think about the word Yeah, I suppose you are We're treating them as property We're shooting them in the head Cutting their heads off And ripping the flesh off of their bones And selling their flesh and eating it That's not abusing someone? Yeah, it is That's the worst way we abuse anyone In this western society That is the worst way Unless you're talking about murder But it's still not systematic legal Breeding and slavery And then murder So this is all legal too The legal system hasn't even caught up yet Yeah I think there was a case It was either Australia or New Zealand About overseeing a sheep Yeah And so I'm not sure I think it was The case was recent But I don't know if it's been picked up on anymore But yeah, that was one case And there was no enough legal action back then So that's definitely something that needs to be looked at The law takes a long time to catch up to what's moral Look at the abolishment of slavery in America It's a 400 years or something ridiculous Why don't they abolish that straight away? That shouldn't have even happened That just gives you an idea of how long people take To connect to these simple moral concepts Like don't enslave and kill others Who are sentient You know? Yeah So you're against animal abuse, would you say? By your definition, though So you're four abusing animals? In your actions, yeah Okay, well at least you'll leave the table today Knowing that you're an animal abusing hypocrite And that's all I had to do You already knew that But not to this extent I feel like kind of like I feel like I feel like kind of everyone knows already Kind of That's why they don't like me pointing it out Yeah, they won't say they do But they know they do That's the thing Do you think I knew that when I was doing it? I don't know 100% did, that's why I changed I hated being a hypocrite I hated being an animal abuser I hated it That's why I couldn't deal with it So I don't know This isn't really like This wouldn't really be a proper point How do you think animals would go after we Like stop eating them Do you think we should just So it slowly phase out Because it's a supply and demand situation Farmers wouldn't breed as many animals They'd slowly phase out the industry The animals would eventually disappear Yeah, but it would be very gradual Very gradual I think The moment that we hit a population point though People are going to realize We have to stop eating animals Because we have to grow food It's much more efficient It's efficient Healthy I guess as well It's efficient and healthy I would never use that to Persuade someone I want people to do this for the right reasons Because we're robbing the lives of these animals We're causing suffering and torture and death That's true as well And I know there's these extraneous things Like health and the environment These are very big bolstering arguments For what I'm saying But at the core of this The reason the environment's going to shit Is because we're exploiting and enslaving And feeding all our resources To these animal slaves And then murdering them That's the core of it And there's a problem where I'm grazing As well as overgrazing That just destroys the So we should be much more Focusing on growing weed We grow enough food by the way We're feeding it all to animals Well that's not enough then Well there's 70 billion land animals On Earth right now We're at 7 billion humans So they're outnumber us 10 to 1 The land animals we're eating Yeah, my opinion We need to grow more food, vegetables Stuff like that We do some meat consumption But different Well we have different reasons But yeah So I don't know What I was going to say earlier But what do you think will happen To the animals after we stop eating them Do you think that we have to like Control them in a way That they don't Because one very big problem That we've done is the cow These animals don't exist in nature We've selectively bred them And turned them into milk machines And meat machines I think 300 years ago Was it or I'm not sure Do you know how long it was That cows started existing Because There were wild cows Before we started to There were the all watches I think I'm saying it right I'm not really sure of the origins Of the wild cows And which ones they used To selectively breed But it started somewhere And they started hurting these animals And they started getting like The smaller ones And yeah Bigger ones and putting a bull And breeding different species together So they tried to make them Small and weaker That's like The problem that we have So what do you propose We should do about that Like after they What I think is We should stop mass breeding These animals And using them for our own benefit And if these species die out Then I'm happy with that Because why would they Want to be born into slavery And then After we're done with all the After everyone turns vegetarian Vegan Not vegetarian Still consume eggs and dairy And those animals all get killed Vegetarians don't consume eggs They consume dairy but not eggs No Lacto over vegetarian Will consume eggs and dairy Oh I mean the general Vegetarian Yeah They don't eat eggs though I think they still eat Milk and cheese though I think Yeah and all those cows Are really badly fucked up Horrible Dairy industries One of the most cruel And abusive industries on earth Disgusting what they do to animals So So like after everything Like let's say After we all turn vegan Yeah We all turn vegan This happened eventually In my opinion Okay Then what There will be no animals being bred Yeah so So do you propose We send them back to nature Like No no no No no no no They don't exist in nature These animals They wouldn't survive out in nature So we protect them We protect the ones That are left in sanctuaries That's it And let them live out The rest of their lives Which is not long 25 years And that's it Yeah yes that's true That would have to phase this out They have to They couldn't let 70 billion land animals Live out their lives We don't have that type of time Resources Water Food To feed 70 billion Plus 70 billion 7 billion humans 70 billion land Plus 70 billion 7 billion humans It's just We're not leaving any room For population growth here I feel like If we did focus on Just growing food and vegetables We would have enough to feed Everyone in my opinion We're already growing enough to feed 77 billion sentient beings On Earth And cows eat more than we do They do Yeah They're growing fields of grass To harvest and turn into hay To feed to cows Grass fed Yeah It's crazy I will let you go mate I was going to continue but No no no That's alright We'll let someone else Because you already admitted That you're abusing animals And all of that You admitted that the sign Was correct in principle You admitted you're not going To do the same So we'll move on But Really good talking to you Thank you for the discussion I'm Martin Joey Joey See you Android Take care