 Hi everybody and welcome to Iran Brooke show actually the last episode for a while that I'm going to be able to do from from my home I Go on the road tomorrow For about two and a half weeks so timing a future shows might my move around a little bit depending on my availability but I will keep you all updated by Twitter and Facebook and if you don't follow me in Twitter and Facebook you should on Twitter it's your on Brooke A-R-O-N-B-R-O-K and on Facebook. It's why Brooke YB are okay so thank you all for joining me and I think this is gonna be an interesting show today. We're gonna talk about Milo We're gonna talk about this idea of anti-ideology which Which I get for mine Rand like most of my ideas. I'm You know in that sense. She is my teacher in almost every sense. She is my teacher the book I'm gonna I'm gonna cover this as out of capitalism not knowing deal a Fabulous essay everybody should read the wreckage of the consensus brilliant brilliant brilliant stuff We'll we'll talk about that anti-ideology fitted in with With Milo and with the Trump administration and with the left and with just a general world in which we live Which I think is a is a significantly anti-ideological world However before I get to any of that There's another Point issue. I want to cover that really comes out of our discussion from last week So if you remember last week we talked about selfishness What does rational self-interest really mean? What does it imply? We talked about this centrality of rationality and really selfishness means think think think But I want to cover a point which which I think we often in some sense Whitewash and and you know, I'm I'm often guilty of this and we kind of try to Soft sell what self-interest really means Oh, well really self-interested people are nice to people and self-interested people would do charity and self-interested people and To the point where many objectivists Whitewash it's so much that you start losing any kind of distinction between Real self-interest the rational pursuit of one's own real values one's own real life one's own Happiness when starts to lose the distinction between that and altruism and living for the sake of other people because hey Living for the sake of other people makes you feel good. So maybe we do some of that and and so I want to make clear. I want to make clear that That's You know that that's not what self-interest is self-interest really means self-interest really self-interest really pursuing what's good for you and That this can sometimes be difficult, but it never never involve sacrifice and and let's You know, so I want to give you an example of this and again I for those of you just joining now I will get to Milo and and we will get to that discussion But I'd like to cover this point first and I know most of you here I've listened to my into my discussion of Milo So I figured I'd cap to you and talk about a philosophical point about self-interest I want to give you an example that I saw on a TV show, which I think illustrated this whole issue of Selfishness and kind of the Suffering in the softening of selfishness really really well, right? So This is a TV show in which now it's a little complicated, so you'll have to bear with me, right? This is a this is a TV show In which they're trying to do these these kidney transplants, but because of the way You know compatibility works what they're doing is a chain of kidney transplants, right? So My spouse cannot donate. I need a kidney, right? I need a new kidney So you're gonna have to follow me here I need a new kidney and my spouse can donate a kidney to me because we're not compatible So she finds somebody else she finds somebody else Who she can donate the kidney to? Who is compatible and obviously who needs a kidney? We don't want to just we don't want to just cut people up and replace the kidney for nothing but you know we So you donate the kidney to the second person and Think of it that their spouse then donates the kidney to me, right? So it's this circle, right? It's a circle where everybody's depending on somebody else getting Compatible being compatible and getting the kidney ultimately, right So on the show there was a circle like this, but a seven different transplants So seven different people were getting their kidney transplant all at once and the whole Circle was dependent on every pair actually happening, right? So on all of them happening Because if you break the chain once If you break the chain then the incentive for all the other transplants goes away Because you can't complete the circle, you know if you do it on three if My wife then has to donate a kidney to somebody else and that somebody else is going to give it to me If my wife lands up not being able to give the kidney to this other person I'm not going to get the kidney so my life is gone, right? So it's it's a circle and You've got to get everybody's buy-in and they have to commit and all the transplants have to happen Pretty much at the same time so nobody gets hurt and everybody is better off now Some people are donating a kidney without getting a direct benefit other than that they love their spouse And so like my wife would be giving up a kidney to some stranger in order for me to live So she's doing it For the sake of me living all right and and you know we can go into why that is selfish on her part I think it's kind of obvious love and the importance of love and the value of love and and so on and And and somebody so valuable to you you're willing to risk your life going through a transplant Okay, but this is this is what happens on the show. They've got this circle done Where they're doing seven seven kidney transplants in one day and one of the one of the One of the circle Is this woman and her daughter and the daughter Is a ballet dancer and the daughter, you know, you got to follow me in this There's going to be a point. I promise you right the ballet dancer Is is about to get like the dream job in the paris ballet, right? She's going to reach her dream Ability to perform, you know, this is who this is the next big step in her career This is what this is her primary value Her mother is dying and she is going to have to contribute the daughter Is going to have to contribute a kidney to some stranger Which gives an isn't going to set back her career dramatically She's going to have to give the kidney to some stranger so that the circle can continue and come back To hoping her mother. So while she's giving up a kidney for a stranger Her mother is going to benefit from it, right? So the circle is complete. Her mother gets it and she's saying to herself I'm willing to do this because it's my mother and I love my mother Right. So again, this could be in her self-interest. It could be selfish depending on how much you love your mother She really loves her mother. This is really important. She couldn't live with herself. She let her mother die It's her mother. It's her value. She's willing to Take a significant step back in her career In order to do it. Okay. So so that's kind of understandable and we can say it's still Kind of in your self-interest. I'm not sure I would do it for my mother But you know, I can see when there's a relationship that's really close and really love-based That somebody would want to do that that somebody would want to do that. Okay okay, so Then what happens? Then what happens is that the final transfer of a kidney for the mother Can't happen It can't happen. So the woman who is going to give the mother a transplant It turns out she's pregnant. They're not going to do the they're not going to do that transplant So this is the option faced by the woman by the daughter, right? She can continue to contribute to her kidney And get six people will get kidney transplants, but her mother will die Or She cannot donate a kidney at all. Her mother dies, but so do six other people Right. Her mother's dead no matter what? Right. So now the question is Is she willing now to sacrifice for six strangers? And initially her responses To give up a kidney not to sacrifice to give up a kidney for six strangers, right? And initially responses. No, I've got my career. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to leave It's not my problem. They're not my responsibly and and she's leaving out and then one of the doctors takes her to meet this cute kid And in order to convince her to give up her career in order to In order to save the lives of six people Now I think that is horrific altruism. That is horrific sacrifice It's her career. It's her life You walk away from that hospital. Six people will die. It's not your responsibility. You Do not have to give up a kidney to save people in order to be a good person It's the same as true of every one of you There's somebody out there who needs a kidney Is it your more responsibility not to go to a hospital in the name of saving somebody's saving somebody's life? I mean that is absurd So a true selfish Egoistic rationally self-interested thing to do is to walk out of that hospital And six people die Six people die. It's not Your responsibility to save people's lives Even when you can It's not your responsibility. Every one of us could take most of our paycheck and send it to Africa and save people's lives But it would be wrong to do it. It'd be wrong to save the lives of people Who you don't know who are strangers to you if it if it costs you Whether that cost is money whether that cost is a kidney whether that cost is time whether that cost is something more Now sure there's a point in which you're willing to do it Right if they if if they're close if they're near if it doesn't cost you that much if it's easy But notice that all of us make this choice almost everybody on the planet makes a choice Of not giving up most of their income to save somebody because it's not that important the lives of African children I mean, this is going to be horrible to say but you know, this is a show on Milo so you can say outrageous things The lives of African children are not that valuable to me in the sense not in the sense that I would hurt them I would never hurt them. They're human beings But in a sense that I know they're dying over there and I'm not sending money I've never sent money to Africa. I'm not interested in sending money to Africa. I I do very little charity I'm not a big proponent of charity. I don't think charity is bad And in the in the context of certain charities and in the context of certain parts of our lives one would give to charity, but If Human life or human life of strangers was the most important thing to you Then there's a lot of things you could do, but it's not and it shouldn't be rationally, it's your life Your happiness your career if I'm not going to be if if my dream is to be a ballet dancer, right? It isn't don't worry again channeling Milo a little bit if my dream is to be a a ballet dancer and My kidney could save a bunch of people 100 people a thousand people But that would cause me to give up my My dancing career forget it. I'm not doing it. I'm not I'm gonna be self-interested. I'm gonna pursue my career so So you you can't I mean there's too much of this And and as a consequence in a truly free economy They're going to be people who suffer and who don't get help And they won't They might not be charity. Some people don't deserve charity Okay So We are We are talking about self-interest. We're talking about selfishness selfishness self-interest means Really understanding What is good for you long term? Right And I'm just gonna comment on this although I know most of you don't do the chat and most of you You know thousands of people listening to the show very few people on the chat But I have to say the stupid idiots who evaluate what I'm gonna say on Milo Based on one comment I made so far on Milo when I said the rest of the show is going to be dedicated to him by just being idiotic and stupid so Stop it wait until I actually say something before you evaluate you might not agree with me anyway, but Uh, this is exactly the kind of stupid mentality That is you know destroying any conversation in this country. All right We're gonna take a quick call and then we're gonna go and discuss Milo Uh, I guess my point was Egoism really means egoism self-interest really means self-interest. It really means pursuing your values Using reason in the pursuit of your own values. It means being rational about your life and putting an Your existence your health Your ability to pursue values The quality and the and the of your mind All of that all of that Is uh You know is is is what self-interest You know requires right and it's it's not about Uh putting on scales how many people are going to die. That's not the relevance. Which relevance is your life It's you All right, we're gonna take this call and then we're gonna we're gonna start on Milo. Yeah. Hi. You're new on book show Hello. Hi, can you hear me? I can now Yes, yeah, I was just wondering what you think about the possibility of uh people paying for transplantable organs You know, especially in the kind that you can live with only one of Yeah, I'm not I don't want to get into that. It's a whole other discussion, but I'm basically for a market in organs. I I think your um Your uh, what do you call you know, your body's yours and if you uh, if you think You know if you value um If it's important for you to to Get money from selling an organ and and uh, you're desperate for money. Why would you deny that? Why would you deny that from people you solve the whole shortage of organs? You'd save lots of people you'd get people money Um, who are willing to take that risk so I'm all for it But but let me I'm not I don't I didn't want to talk about that topic So I'm I'm gonna delay it postpone it for future shows that okay Okay, thanks. Thank you. But yeah, I'm for I'm for market a free market in organs in organs And I think it would it would contribute a lot. All right. So uh, so I have uh over the last Few days and most myself in all things Milo And uh, I I've I've read his I've read his articles. I've uh, I've read I haven't read everything and I haven't watched everything because Man the guy's prolific. I mean, it's it's pretty amazing how much stuff is out there from I'd say the last couple of years That Milo has produced. Uh, he gives talks on campuses. He's given dozens of them many of the talks on campuses are uh Completely different topics. So he and he writes the talks out, which is interesting. He stands at the podium and he actually reads the talks Which is which is interesting. You wouldn't have expected that. So I don't know if he has a staff who writes them Um, he ad libs a lot off of the talks. He whiffs off of the talks, but he actually has a lot of talks Uh, you can find a full text of many of his talks on brightbot Uh, you know, so if you if you, um, if you go to the brightbot website and you look up milo You can find full text of many of his talks and he doesn't do the same talk It doesn't look over again. He covers a a wide way of topics. Almost all of them Uh, send it around cultural issues He doesn't he doesn't really talk about economics. So he doesn't he talks a little bit about politics, but most of Uh, a culturally based um As most of you know, he he resigned from brightbot this last week and we'll get to that We'll get up milo's downfall, but uh, but uh He was very prolific, uh on uh on brightbot up until last week and and he was giving He was giving this uh speaker tour on campuses Um, it called the dangerous faggot tour and and you know, I'm going to be using a lot of full letter words Because that's what milo uses. So it's hard to describe milo and what he does and how he does it without uh without Using full letter words So I've read I've read a bunch of his talks on all of them So those of you gonna say you haven't listened to this one from you know, march of 15 I haven't read all of them. I haven't listened all of them I've listened to many of his interviews from dav rubin to the thing he did with bill ma To uh to what he did with joe rogan and and others I listened to some of the stuff on on uh, you know, the whole reason for why He's being kicked out and why uh, why he's had to apologize and everything So I've listened to some some of those that I'm sure I haven't listened to everything and and uh, so far So for those of you worried that I have I don't know anything about milo I I've done my homework. I'm sure it's never going to be good enough for many of you Because I'm sure you'll find some obscure thing, uh that contradicts me fine Um, but uh, you know, I probably I've read one two three four five six of his talks I've actually read I've watched a bunch of others. I've watched a lot of his q and a so he's particularly good We'll get to what good means, but he's particularly good in q and a's He's particularly good off the cuff um, and uh You know, uh, so He's a and I have to say, um, a few things. Let's start with a with a lot of the positives um He's really smart The guy is really smart and he's great on his feet Which I think is an expression of of being smart. So it's not he you know He is prepared stuff and he riffs off his prepared stuff That's that's okay, but many a lot of people can do that But he does q and a's really well, um He his interview with Dave Rubin and his other interviews. He's quick. He's smart. He's incredibly articulate Partially it's his british accent, which which I always find people with british accents sound smarter than anybody else But you know the guys the guys he knows a lot about the topics he's talking about He is very quick very quick very very sharp and Funny, I mean In spite of myself and I'll say in spite of myself, uh, you know, I'll explain later I find myself laughing at a lot of what he says I find it interesting to see what people laugh at Um, you know that the audiences I often don't laugh when the other people are laughing But I find it interesting to see what people are laughing at and what actually provokes them And I think at the end of the day, this is part of why he got into the trouble he got into is Is uh Because of of the kind of things that his audience responds, uh, you know response to So, uh He's funny. He's smart. He's incredibly articulate Um, he he he's good-looking and he knows he's good-looking and he uses that. Uh, he uses that incredibly well um But what is he? I mean, what is uh, my lo so what's what's what's his purpose? What what is he out there? I mean, is he is he a comedian? It took me a while to try to figure this out I mean, is he a comedian or does he use comedy right and and so You know, I don't think he's a comedian. He's not doing a stand-up routine His shtick is not about comedy. He's trying to use comedy in order to express a point of view He he is an intellectual. He's an in he's a public figure Was we'll see if he still is he's a public figure with an intellectual agenda with a point of view and uh, he's very effective As using comedy and using the points that he's trying to make in order to convey a particular point of view and uh, The point of view You know, we'll we'll get in a minute to what that point of view is and he he's very good at self-effacing humor He's very good at you know He's very good at using the f-word and you and and swearing all the time because that gets a laugh It's always gotten a laugh since Lenny Lenny Bruce started in the 1960s The thing that gets the most laugh is when you swear Which is interesting as a cultural phenomena, but uh, he has a particular You know intellectual agenda. He he he wants to achieve something out there in the world He is driven by achieving something and and it's it's interesting to try to figure out what that is Because he's full of contradictions. He contradicts himself constantly Because I I at the end of the day My bottom line is he's not a thinker. He can't really think well He's not a he's not a systematic thinker He doesn't have principles. He doesn't know what a principle looks like What is he trying to achieve at the end of the day? And and it was interesting because in an interview with with Dave Rubin I think he actually said it and the interview with Dave Rubin is very good because He's relaxed and he's actually saying what he thinks he's not putting on a show Because there's no live audience to laugh, right? So when you get away from the show You you get You get him more serious and you get actually what he's about and he says he says I mean he calls himself Basically what he is is an engine of chaos What he wants Is chaos? um He says what what does he want to achieve politically right with his big support for trump? He's a huge trump supporter. What do you what does he want? What does he want, um, what does he want to achieve politically? He wants to blow up the system He wants to smash things, but particularly political correctness, right? He but he but he also says in that interview he wants to destroy the republican party He wants to destroy the democratic party He doesn't want either one of these parties To be elected then he kind of says something about what he really wants is a pro-freedom party versus a status party But what he really wants is this chaos, right? So he he's kind of goes goes back and forth Uh goes back and forth about this Well, he's He is he is A you know again, he this is goes back to what I called him last week, which is a nihilist There's definitely an element right now. I'll take that back He's not quite as nihilistic as I thought he was but there's definitely an element Of nihilism in him. There's definitely an element of what he really wants Is everybody going out there and being able to say what they want to say? Offend everybody they want to offend You know Even on private property even on somebody else's stuff. This is why he attacks twitter is violating his free speech um He wants he wants this all it's complete subjectivism, right? Come he keeps saying by the way he keep again. This is a contradiction. He keeps saying these evidence based He keeps saying it's all about evidence. I want evidence just evidence, right? um But then what he really wants is chaos, right? What he wants is the chaos and he he wants to be able to say whatever he wants to say without any evidence He never presents evidence when he's making a positive case and again a challenge anybody to show me that He presents a lot of evidence To slam the left in their case particularly feminists Uh, particularly kind of gay rights advocates or a particular type of gay rights. Now remember, uh He is very overtly and very um very explicitly gay. He's you know, he this is this is a schtick It's it's a big part of what he is and how he defines himself um He the way I define the way to find nihilism Is uh Wanting to knock things down for the sake of knocking them things down wanting to knock things down for the sake of chaos wanting to bring about chaos Being an engine for chaos not being an engine for destroying leftist ideology not being an engine for Knocking down falsehoods, but being as he defined himself an engine of chaos blowing apart the system, right? Smashing using that term and that's that's nihilistic. That's that's what what what is nihilistic about About him and you can tell that by just the way he engages in intellectual ideas and and the language and the way he puts down His enemies the way he addresses issues Uh, it's all over the place. It's it's disintegrated and it's about smashing things. It's about destroying things And and it's it's it's not just by the way about smashing, um The left it's not just about feminism. It's it's it's also about secularism. You know, he's very very very anti secularism Not just leftist anti secularism. He considers himself A catholic, but not even with forgot this Catholicism. Uh, let me see if I could find this quote He says but I'm a catholic and I do believe in God Even as I recognize that the church is for sinners and I'm one of the most enthusiastic sinners Somewhere else I I I hold him say I don't have the direct quote. He says every day I violate the seven deadly sins. I check them off. It's like what he does every day I mean, even as approached his own Catholicism is nihilistic, right? It's it's yes, I'm a Catholic But I really have no intention and will not live as a Catholic Even as approached his own is being gay, right? You would think somebody like him who makes such a big deal about being gay and about Doing the things that he do he describes. He describes often Uh, what he does as a gay man and the sexual acts involved Are very explicit in his talks You'd expect him to say You know, I'm gay and I'm kind of and I'm proud of it, but but he's not he says he says look I'm gay and I wish I wasn't Um, I'm gay, but the bible condemns gays and the bible and and god condemns gays and god's right Right. He has to be right. So I messed up I'm I'm completely screwed up Um, I you know, I'm a bad person in the sense that I'm gay, right? It's You know, he's again he is a uh, you know, there's an element of safe self-hatred there, but it's consistent with this knocking stuff down. It's consistent with this Splintering everything up. It's consistent with this chaos. There's no cohesive Agenda here. There's no cohesion to it. There's no I mean if he was a catholic and said I'm a catholic and because I'm a catholic I'm gonna give up my gay lifestyle I'm gonna stop doing all the things that I'm doing because it's condemned by the bible All right. Well, there's consistency there, but the whole point of a shtick The whole point of what he's doing Is to be inconsistent the whole point is the shattering of everything Now, this is what he's saying. I'm not making this up this this idea of and and he actually says he goes on when he says That he's a sinner and he's a very enthusiastic sinner note He's an enthusiastic sinner think about what a real catholic thinks about an enthusiastic sinner And then he goes on and this is in a written talk This is in a written talk You can find it and we'll get to the topic of the talk in a minute This is the talk about abortion, but this is the talk he gave in january of this year of this year and Here's what he's saying as someone once said I might be bad But imagine imagine how much worse I'd be without god So he's an absolute sinner according to the bible, but he wouldn't be a biggest sinner if he didn't believe in god Now, you know, just to give you again a little bit of background He was born jewish converted to catholicism. So catholicism is not just some random thing he chose He he was born into he chose to be a catholic He chose to be a catholic and he's choosing to be a sinner And he's choosing to be a super sinner, right? Again his words not mine. I don't know what he does in his private life for all I know It's all an act But the fact that this is the act the fact that this is what he wants to highlight and this is what he chooses to highlight You know says it all right says it all All right, we've got a caller. I'm gonna take a caller and then we'll go I've got a lot more to say about Milo. Hi. You're in the Iran book show. Who's this? Hey, yeah Go ahead and speak up. You're a little soft Speak up. Hey Good question. So the reason Milo is important is because he's become important I mean, I don't decide who's important and who's isn't important. I look out there in the culture And I and I ask, you know What are people talking about? What are people? You know, when when he goes to campuses The left demonstrates often riots University provosts or presidents denying access to some universities And he fills the auditorium up with hundreds of people. These are the people I want I want them to come to my talks You know, this is my audience, but they would much rather listen to Milo than listen to me um He's important because he wrote regularly for Breitbart and everybody quoted him He's important because The culture we live in This is what they're embraced on the right This is what the culture has embraced particularly particularly um Young people So particularly the people we want to get to so I think it's important to understand What it is about the culture that makes Milo important Right because he is he's a reflection of the state of the culture in which we live And I think it's important that we understand it. I think it's important. We try to Address it try to figure out what the issue is so that we can go out and fight for the souls of these poor people who are sucked in by him Yeah, well, I'll think for the soul of people that are sucked into them quite last really Well, if you look if you look at If you look at people who are 15 to 25 year olds today They are either on the right sucked in by Milo Or either on the left sucked in by bony sanders and the feminist and black life matter and everything else Which is the equivalent of Milo on the left. That is the cultural landscape That we all live in to ignore that To ignore that is a big mistake particularly if you want to change it you have to understand what it is You have to understand what is going on. Maybe the conclusion is everything's lost. Let's go to new zealand um Or maybe the conclusion is How do we how do we fight this and and how do we structure our arguments in order to fight it, but it's This is the world we live in and and this is why he's important He's important because he's a reflection of the world. We live in we better know our enemy. We better know what's out there And and and and you know so that we can fight it Okay, but it sounds like You're allowing the little whatever Um to set your agenda Well, but they do set the agenda. They're setting the agenda of the culture They are the culture They are they are the ones defining the terms out there They are they they dominate intellectual high ground. They dominate the universities Who I mean? Yes, they are, you know, if you if you look if you look at iron rand and what iron rand wrote every single one of these essays Is is addressing some evil that the left back in the 60s and 70s was uh was You know applying to amer to the american people This is the world we live in and we need to combat it and we haven't won yet. We're still losing I guess you're trying to change the culture I would prefer just to ignore it Well, but but ignoring is giving up and I can't give up. No, it's not Yeah, it is ignoring it is giving up because because we live in the world We live in a culture We live in a place where a the culture elects politicians The culture determines what movies we get the culture determines the way people talk to each other The culture is what shapes the quality of life that you live whether you want to acknowledge it or not If you don't change the culture We've lost and this is a cultural. This is a cultural fight. It's not The way to change the culture is through philosophy But the culture is where the battle is being waged and if you ignore it, you've lost it And iron man never ignored it by the way Iron rand was heavily engaged in the cultural Battle cultural war. Yeah, but I'm sure I don't really care about all these people I mean, I I agree with you I agree with you But you what you should care the only reason you should care about them is whether you like it or not They're making your life harder to live the way you'd like to live That's a fact So my argument is you don't have to deal with them What's that? Well, of course he is because he's he's affecting the way people talk to each other He's impacting the kind of movies. You're gonna see he's impacting The the whole culture around you the whole way in which people are living the whole way in which You know Donald trump got elected partially because of my loan people like that Donald trump was the choice the choice was between clinton and trump was because This is the culture No, not your job and you shouldn't be I understand your point Yeah, and I agree with you you shouldn't have to worry about this You should just live your life You're hiring me to have to go out to fight there and to fight the battle for you I hope you contribute to the iron man institute because we're waging the battle and it's a battle for all of us So thanks for calling. I really appreciate it And as I said, you should all be contributing to iron man institute where this battle is being waged so that you Don't have to go and read my lost talks and listen to his commentary and do all this stuff Because it's pretty painful. It's time sacrificing for your sake and I want some dough I want something in in response um Somebody's saying, you know, they listen a mile over they don't take him seriously Fine, but a lot of people do and the fact is he is serious and the fact is he's not a comedian He's not out there just to entertain. He's presenting a point of view It's a point of view that many people share with him and You know, this is this is the this is the reality in in which we live And I don't think you can just listen a mile low and shrug This guy has some really really nasty things to say about the world in which we live And uh, he's part of the problem and and you have to understand the problem in order to be able to fight it All right, we're gonna take another call. Hi. You're in the Iran book show Hi, this is paul kennedy in austin. Hey paul another austin two austins, uh, two out of three today in austin. All right What's up paul? I was wondering to what to what to what degree do you see the reaction to milo the affinity for him as a positive sign or a mixed sign because Um, while I you know reject a lot of what milo has to say there's a certain part of me that responds positively to the Basically the giant middle finger that he's giving to the insanity on the left and for so long it seems like You know people it's like they they felt it necessary to prove Uh, you just broke up this uh something broke up there. So so I I I'm gonna I'm gonna uh, yeah Sorry about that something something went wrong with the audio. Um, yeah, so there's a certain joy There's a certain value. I guess one gets from Sticking the middle finger to really bad people and I get that and and that's what I said I laugh at some of the stuff he says Uh, I think that some of the stuff he says is uh, is right I think a lot of what he says about the left is accurate and it's right Um, you know his hostility to a lot of the left's agenda Is right on his defense of free speech while very weak and intellectual emotion driven Is Correct in the sense that he is a defender of free speech and he goes out of his way to try to defend free speech He's brave. He's courageous. He goes in front of all these crowds where people are trying to really hurt him physically and he does it But But he's also represents he represents the flip side Of the left's neilism the flip side of the evil of the left He's representing on the right and if this is all The culture has to offer us which I think it's boiling down to this Is neilism on the left neilism on the right? Um, you know, maybe the neilism on the right is funnier more entertaining and they're sticking the finger to I just stuck my finger on facebook live There you go. Um Sticking the finger to things that we would like to stick our finger to but on the other hand You know does it in such a emotionalistic non-reason based Example right by the that's You know, that's crazy That that is not helpful, right? Now I did not say he was bad on free speech what I said is his argument is incomplete on free speech Right. He's bad on free speech and that he can't really make the argument. I read his stuff on free speech He basically says I should be able to say whatever the hell I want to say and And he says If I'm offensive You know, if I if I offend you, you know, grow, you know, grow a pair and suck it up But he never talks about reason He never talks about truth He never talks about science He never talks about The fact that some speech is stupid the fact that some speech is wrong The fact that some speech is offensive that just you have a right to say certain things doesn't mean you have to say them He never talks about What an argument is for free speech in a in a Semi-rational basis now granted. He's no objectivist. I'm not expecting objectivity But neither is Dave Rubin, but Dave Rubin can make a case for why Free speech is essential for the existence of western civilization in a intellectual way so can Danish cartoon Fleming Rose Fleming Rose is no objectivist, but he understands the value of reason He understands the age of enlightenment. He understands the value of science and can make an argument for free speech that is Based on reason based on rationality Milo doesn't and can't right because he is driven by the subjectivism the emotionalism And ultimately he's driven by He's an engine of chaos and free speech to him Is is ultimately for him just a tool to create that chaos. It's a tool to create that chaos I mean that's part of what he is that's part of what he's What he's about he's not He's not an enlightenment figure in that sense where Fleming and Dave are They are they are Trying to ground what they believe in in a kind of reality based Reason based and they're weak on it because they're not objectivists But Milo is not Is very Milo doesn't even try right at least the stuff I've read now Maybe I'm missing something but the stuff I've read the stuff I've talked seen him talk about free speech now again Good for him. I'm hopeful all the allies we can get on the free speech thing The fact that he stands up and is willing to stand up to the sensors is a good thing You know, it's sad. I think to some to a logic stand that A lot of the free speech is done In the name of what is objectively truly offensive What is objectively truly stupid right rather than defending free speech for valuable speech for for what is good and and you you can criticize the left You know, it's full of criticism without just being insulting and dumb and emotional and so on As I said, I mean Milo's full of contradictions Beyond that he's also an apologist an apologist for the alt-right. He's not alt-right And and there's nothing I've seen that suggests that he is a racist or anti-semitic or any of those things But he's certainly an apologist for the for the anti-semites and for the racists, right? He basically excuses it. Oh, these are just young people trolling Excuse me, but trolling anti-semitism is not excusable This is an opportunity to educate these people and how stupid what they're doing is how evil what they're doing is And that they need to fix their ways Not to excuse it Not to excuse it not to to to brush it under the table, right? He says, oh, there's some racist in the alt-right But the movement is much bigger than just that but imagine being in a movement Imagine being part of a movement in which part of the movement the only part Right Only part of the movement was Racist I mean, why would you want to be in the same tent with racists? Racism one of the most evil ideologies in in human history The worst most primitive form of tribalism and collectivism you want to be in a in a tent You know in a big tent with that right the movement. There's a movement here and some of the movement I mean I don't know if if you guys know of the tweet that Milo sent Ben Shapiro When Ben Shapiro's child was born right Ben Shapiro who should be You know an ally I guess they're both conservatives. They're both religious What did he what did he what did he send? Ben Shapiro's a tweet something about the baby being half black And calling him a cuck right and and you can go look up what cuck means If you want right And Ben Shapiro and him have had a huge falling out You know, so he's an apologist for the alt-right He's an apologist for the worst racist elements within the alt-right Even though he's not a racist. He is an apologist for them He is An engine of chaos. This is what he thrives on. This is what he loves. This is what he enjoys his humor is dark and and offensive purposefully Not just to the left but to anybody Anybody out there and on top of that He is an apologist for the worst elements of the catholic church The worst element of the catholic church He's an apologist to this you got to read the speech he gave on abortion You know, and then he he says things like Um, this is from the speech, right? He says, uh Thomas Aquinas and the church on to kill joy puritans that your lying professors claim Really? They're not He says said thomas and before him sin augustine now remember who sin augustine is Sin augustine was the guy who used to whip himself Because of the evil sexual urges he got literally used to whip himself or go all around in the snow To suppress his sexual urges. These are the people he's trying to defend. I mean, I can see defended Aquinas but augustine Augustine so not only is an apologist for racism. He's an apologist He's an apologist for the catholic church augustine anti-sex anti-pleasure augustine It's just unbelievable, right? You know, um He then goes on, uh, you know, then goes on and on and on about the evil of abortion Uh, you know abortion is murder And uh, you know feminist love abortion and that's what drives them And you know, he's science-based and um, and he's gonna give reason to argument for why abortion is wrong And then all he does is present an emotional argument about abortion You know, it's bad for women's mental health. He's got some surveys around this Uh abortion and then he says abortion is simply wrong argument There's no argument, right? There's no argument um Then he's got this all kinds of you know, the the fetuses are beneficial to the I mean all kinds of stuff That you get a scratch your head and go what? What? right Yeah, so so of course I'm reading from my low articles, right? I'm you know, this is actually what he's saying This is all again, you can go full text on Breitbart of uh, his cal poly state university No dead babies talk It's right there, right? I'm reading from it but if you like my low then This is exactly the same with trump, right? Nothing I say no evidence No quotations No actual facts will move you and this is what I've always said the new right is authoritarian There is no facts don't matter. It's all about emotion and it's all about You know, I love my low therefore my low is a good guy and therefore you're all idiots because you don't like my though I love trump and trump could do no wrong nothing This is this is the mentality of an authoritarian of authoritarianism And this is the mentality of the people who who criticize anybody who criticized my low and trump and in bannon and all these guys It's a mentality of authoritarianism. And this is what I've been saying for months That what the trump election reflects and what the trump candidacy reflected Not the fact that a lot of you voted for trump a lot of you voted for trump because the alternative was hillary but the fact of of of trump And the passion people have towards trump and the apologists The massive number of apologists for trump that is all reflective of a of a significant move among them American electorate towards authoritarianism and and you're seeing that with the blind defense of uh, you know of Milo, here's a line from him This is a line from Milo babies in the womb notice. He calls them babies not fetuses or anything that babies in the womb Are the real undocumented americans? We should care about not mexican gang members or syrian jihadists Right now. Yeah, Milo is not about consistency. Milo is the anti consistency. Milo is on principle inconsistent Milo is the nihilists the essence of nihilism Because he's about smashing. He's about chaos. He's about anti-consistency. That's why he's so dangerous Right, and that's why When you're chaotic when you're willing to say anything for a laugh when you're everything, you know, you get into trouble Like what you got into trouble for in the last week I mean you can make rational argument about the age of consent And you can say well the age of consent is too high Kids when they're 16, they know what they're doing and and they can they can give consent You cannot say that about the age of 13 You cannot say that about the age of 14 So there's there's some line there and you can have a rational argument about where that line is, right But that's not what Milo did in his interview with Joe Rogan. It's not what Milo did in the other recordings that have come out You know what he said was despicable. What he said was Absolutely despicable And i'm glad that he suffered the fate and and and I think it's sad that any publisher picked up his book because He was basically in the name of chaos in the name of ridiculing everything in the name of saying everything In the name of nothing matters. There are no sacred cows You know, he came out for even though he denies it and even though he rejected and even though explicitly says He's not really supportive of this for pedophilia So And that's pretty despicable. I can't think of anything much more despicable than than than that. All right I've got three more callers people people really loving this topic for whatever reason, right? Hi. You're new on book show. Who's this? Hello, this is james. Hey james. How's it going? I'm doing well doing well. I'm appreciate you taking my call. Sure. Um I've been I've been very fascinated myself with the The nature of the discourse, uh between Objectivist and more broadly libertarians as against the alt-right and um I honestly think that Milo More essentially embodies a type of Miss integration mobilizing Disintegration chaos for its purposes. You know, I don't think I don't think it's absolutely accurate to say he has no principles Um, you know, I think he kind of embodied. I mean he describes himself As a uh, how do you put it? Um, you know messy and complex. Yeah, uh, kind of broken person And but he's made a he's made that into An ideology almost he's made that into his shtick. It's not just he's broken He feeds off of the fact that he's broken. He makes he makes a big deal out of the broken ness Right, but I think that his psychophysicology comes through in that regard. I agree And I mean as I just as I listen to the the discussion today, I think in so many ways How his his psychology, I don't want to I'm not trying to psychologize him In terms of you know, his own words about um things to do with, um his sexual experiences with catholicism Um, you know other things um in terms of the broader culture as you were discussing before he has a generative context Where he's interacting the type of emotionalism that the left has created Uh, you know and harnessed in order to uh fight capitalism as far as I'm concerned It's primary enemy is capitalism. Well, I think I think it's worse than that Capitalism is a political manifestation The primary enemy is the individual the primary enemy enemy is reason That's the end game the end gates to destroy reason Destroy the individual and the end game is authoritarianism. That's true on the left And I think what happens is that Milo's reflecting that back to them And thus embracing the methodology on the right Yeah, it's an emotionalism mobilized to fight and I think he's I think he is honest when he says he's he's a mess, you know And but I think that's right Okay, so if I could be mildly critical I I noticed in objectives that There seems to be I'm I consider myself an objective. Yeah, but I noticed other objectives tend to on this issue Um magnify the negative of a misintegrated psyche, you know of a bad um philosophical base and and I wonder if it's because The generative context the cut the cultural uh, I don't hate to use the word zeitgeist because of its roots But yeah the the thing that you you want to fight. Okay Is is Matt is uh at a state now in the culture that you have to resist The alt right more than the left. Yep. So maybe your strongest message is being directed in that way So, let me yeah, I mean, I think I get what you're saying I'm gonna I'm gonna disconnect you right now just because I've got other callers, but let me say this The battle the real battle is between reason and emotion The real battle is between individualism between Between self-interest and altruism the real battle is between individualism collectivism. Those are the real battles When you look at the alt right And and you look at Milo and people he represents now again It's variation Milo might not be as bad as some of the alt right, but but he's bad, right? And you see where they fall down on that axis Are they self-interested Individuals versus altruism what they're preaching is altruism, you know, that's what his whole catholicism is about it's about altruism Now he projects it in this individualistic anything goes kind of way, but at the end of the day He's asking the mother to sacrifice for the fetus, right? um The anti-reason and pro-emotion left and right And the anti-individualism pro-collectivism left and right Now Milo, I think is anti everything. This is what makes him a nihilist. He's not an altruist He's not really an egoist. He's not a collectivist. He's not an individualist He's nothing and I'll talk about that in a minute because I want to get to this idea of anti ideology He's an anti ideologist, but I think the entire political map today Is anti ideological there are no principles In that sense, they're all our enemies because yes, we might agree on the evil of modern feminism Absolutely Milo is mostly right In his condemnation of modern feminism and it's funny and it's entertaining and mostly right but That doesn't change the fact that he's also Against a lot of things that we really value and he's not on our side in any kind of sense So it's not that I'm going to pass out. This is the good stuff. This is the bad side. Listen to the good stuff No, what he represents because he's an agent of chaos. What he represents is Chaos what he represents is nihilism That's what Milo represents And it's not something we should Just say okay. Well, there's some good things in my mind. I'll know the very essence of Milo is bad The very essence of the altruist is bad Even if the alt right is only a counter reaction To the left to the left craziness But that's where we place ourselves and I think this election has made it clear Should have made it clear to objectivists. It's us against the world It really is At the philosophical deepest philosophical level at the level of reason versus emotion even deeper than that at the level of The primacy of existence versus the primacy of consciousness It's at the very philosophical level. We it's us against the world and what the world holds Left right alt right alt left what they hold with some few exceptions Is a disintegrated mess a disintegrated mess Which doesn't Yet add up to anything the only people who have any kind of coherence on the right and then the religious nuts Everybody else it's complete disintegration. It's complete chaos. It's exactly what Milo wants And that's the world we live in now everybody said but yeah But the silent majority of americans are not alt right and they're not alt that that's true But they're also insignificant The fact is that the vast majority americans don't matter What matters is The people who shape the culture and somebody asks why does Milo matter because Milo shapes culture because people pay attention to Milo People listen to him people go and watch his lectures people watch his youtube videos by the millions So his message Is out there among the people who are going to influence the culture and the vast Silent majority of america is silent And therefore they're not going to have any influence on the culture and therefore when an election comes they're gonna They're just going to vote for donald trump because that's That's their response to the evil of leftism. They're going to take this evil guy on the right So this matters in a in a deep deep in a deep deep sense. It matters culturally and it's a philosophical battle Milo very much exudes a primacy of cult a privacy of consciousness mentality Right It's a primacy of consciousness and mentality that says You know i'm catholic, but i'm a sinner and i commit wussons in anybody But i'm a catholic and i love god and god loves me and i mean it's complete disintegration It's complete. Where's the reality? Where's the fact? He keeps saying he's science-based But he never presents science because he can't he doesn't really have science doesn't believe in science The best he can come up with when it comes to science is Surveys survey that on what people think Not actual Science and of course that's in metaphysics and epistemology. It's all about emotion It's all about what feels right what feels good to him and that's why he's willing to say anything Outrage anybody insult anybody Because it's just emotion who cares about emotion now He has a right to do it from a political right, but is it good communication? Is it the right way to deal with people? Is this the kind of culture we want to live in when we all insult each other all the time not insult each other because We're debating ideas, but insult each other because we're insulting each other We're calling each other fad and and all kind of other, you know Wussons thoughts, you know again. I find it hard To say this kind of stuff because i'm not the kind of person who uses that kind of language You know, maybe you guys I don't know I I find I find swearing hard unless I do it in arabic And then I could then I could then I then I would do pretty well. I think again. I can swear. Okay in arabic But in english it's tough. All right Uh, we got we got a bunch of more callers. Hi. You're near on book show. Who's this? Aloha Stuart. Hey Stuart You have to do it quickly because I want to wrap up this segment because I want to get to the uh anti ideology Good. Okay. So I see all these apologists for Milo's saying he only picks on leftist Cry bullies who deserve it and that's not true I can tell you the exact moment when I became disillusioned with Milo because I was a fan of him during gamer game When I thought he was staying for video game nerd. I can tell you exactly when I became disillusioned with them On twitter This is the story he told he was working out at the gym and he saw this fat guy From several yards away really fat guy working out on one of those exercise machines And Milo was so offended seeing a fat guy that he took a photo of that guy without permission and tweeted it out and said Fat has to be seen anywhere. You see it. Yeah, no, I've seen him do that No, I think that's right and this is again what he wants is and it's pure emotion He's a good-looking thin guy And and he he wants he enjoys putting stuff down now There's a there's a fine line between saying You know being fat is unhealthy for you You really should get on top of it and in between insulting somebody you don't know that person could have a medical reason why he's fat They could be multiple reasons why he's fat that have nothing to do with the so-called It's not good for you. Which is Milo's excuse For why he goes after fat people, right? And there's an there's another element here What he wants to do is he wants to attack the leftist idea All body shapes are okay, right that kind of notion Which you know, there's a sense in which I think that's a good thing to say all body shapes Okay, but there's also a sense of just justifying people who don't exercise and abuse their body and treat themselves badly But it's not what Milo is really trying to do Milo is really trying to Destroy I mean he really is trying to shame. He's trying to provoke. He's trying to do all these things, right? He doesn't have the excuse because that guy was exercise Yeah, no, exactly. He didn't even know him and the guy was exercising trying to make himself You know trying to get in shape. So yeah, no, I agree with you completely. All right. Thanks Stuart. Thanks for calling One more last one and then then I want to take you in a slightly different direction. How are you on the book show? Who's this? Yeah, this is nick. I've been an objectivist for 25 years I agree with everything I had said including on one on the woman president I am a huge fan of trump and Milo and I can defend except for one or two things everything They have done and said Write down to evidence and so Yeah, so okay. So here you go So I want you to defend the idea that he's a catholic and a sinner And that's great and that's something to be to be admired and cherished and and promoted The context is uh What I can defend it at the context is why is Milo popular? Uh, that's not the context. He's giving a talk about abortion and he's trying to explain where his values come from And he's saying I am a catholic This is where my values come from But I reject those values at the same time because I sin constantly. Okay. All right. That's the context I can defend that because my defense is he that is the same as any other dumb Conservative who's not fine. So he's a dumb conservative. We can agree on that We can agree that there's no difference between Milo and any dumb conservative But but you want to say something more you you started the conversation by saying You can defend almost everything he's ever said and I can find you A hundred things and I I'm willing to bet you any money you want that I can find a hundred things within context In Milo's written speeches that you as an objectivist should I'm not saying you would be justified by and reject And I won't even get to trump because trump is worse in that respect But okay, so this what I'm thinking says I mean the context of what what they say So you are now in the context of Milo is the awful person a nihilist Yeah, it's exactly what he is he calls himself He calls us are you explain this that he calls himself an engine of chaos And thrives on that and and he says it over and over again. What is that? Is that not nihilistic? Okay, that's just just because somebody says something it doesn't mean he's not a philosophy I see again So so anything I say you're gonna say he doesn't he didn't mean it. I mean, that's ridiculous If you believe it if you're into what the sentence every time I start it You're not gonna get the full context and so it's gonna sound like I'm doing if you get the whole context It won't go ahead All right, so the context is Milo is when I say defending everything they say I don't mean defending them Therefore their objectives obviously Trump is uh, no, no, I'm gonna stop you again because my standard is not being an objectivist. It's just being a decent pro You know pro values human being non-object. That's not the standard the objectivism is a false standard to judge people You're wrong. Yeah You're wrong. That's why you gotta let me finish the whole pair No, but you say stuff that's just so ridiculous you you're accusing me You're accusing me implicitly of using objectivism as a standard by which I'm measuring Milo and I never have No, okay, so can let me finish the whole body even though even if it starts off something like that Go ahead finish what I'm saying and it still does that then you can answer So the context is he's not an objectivist And but the context is he's a terrible person for instance The Trump is an authoritarian Milo's a nihilist he does this and then then he starts discussing these points That for instance Catholicism. I'm not defending them. It's not objectivist But I can name you a bunch of other people who have these same views who are not objectivists That you are not discussing them as a nihilist. You're not discussing them as a force. Give me an example one believe in protectionism With that Ben Shapiro Who's that? I can't hear you Ben Shapiro has many things to say about abortion, but we're not all going crazy about Ben Shapiro, I haven't done a show yet on Ben Shapiro when I do I will go crazy about his position on abortion. Absolutely But these positions are bringing up our common conservative of protectionism on Trump Milo attacking attacking Okay, so so I I get it I don't have a lot of time so I get it Have you gotten to the point I didn't sound I made it, but it didn't I don't think it was very clear. Yeah. No, I don't think so either But my point is this yeah, you're right. You're right. I don't consider myself a conservative I think conservatives are idiots and I'll talk about conservatives if I have time in a minute And and and I think that in many respects are no better than the left And in in some respects are worse than the left much worse than the left I have a respect for Ben Shapiro and any day I'd be willing to Analyze the difference between Ben Shapiro and Milo and why Ben Shapiro is a thousand times better than Milo And and I'd be happy to discuss that on some occasion but But there are a lot of bad people out there Uh, the fact is that Milo has made himself the center of a whole culture He's prominent. He's prominent in a way that other conservatives are not He's funny. He's smart. He's articulate. He's worthy of Going up against he's worthy of attacking. I'm giving him attention. This is what he loves Other conservatives are mostly boring and pathetic and therefore not deserving out now protectionism I have been against fundamentally Abnoxiously against every single republican who's ever been a protectionist I consider protectionism one of the stupidest dumbest idea in the last 240 years since the wealth of nations I went after huckabee. I went after centurion I went after Ted Cruz when he expressed some protectionist ideas I think they're all idiot populace when they do that now Donald trump has turned it into an art form. He made it a central issue of his campaign That's why I go after any one and he's president That's why i'm going after donald trump and protectionism even more. I've been going after the the ridiculous anti immigration rhetoric of the republican party for many many election cycles The idea that I just discovered immigration as an issue because donald trump Has raised it is ridiculous. I I remember Tweeting the the presidential debates four years ago and eight years ago and well eight years ago I was on a twitter but four years ago Attacking immigration so yeah the conservatives suck and the conservatives are not our friends And some conservatives are worse than other conservatives And mylo is an example of a conservative who's who's a who's a disintegrator who is a nihilist and trump Well, you know what I think of trump and and there'll be plenty of opportunities to talk about trump But there is no defense for this other than Other than they're not the left And the left is so bad They were willing to accept anybody except the left. That's the only legitimate defense In my view of trump and mylo is that they're not the left now I believe that is a horrible defense because it basically says We've given up that we've given up on primacy of existence. We've given up on reason We've given up on rational self-interest. We've given up on individual rights We've given up on individualism. We've suddenly given up on capitalism And fine if you want to give up that's fine. I'm a fighter and I identify the enemy the enemy is the left The enemy is the is the is the is the is the right the enemy has been the right since Suddenly since the 1960s and suddenly now You know since the 1980s when ronald reagan bought the ma majority deep into the republican party the enemy is religion Yeah, it's lonely to be an objectivist Don't look to in order to reduce your loneliness for allies In people like Mylo, he's not an ally. He's not a philosophical ally He might be an ally because he knocks down the left and it's funny, but he's not philosophical ally He doesn't contribute to the philosophical defense Our positive values need he almost never talks about positive values And again, I'm not gonna talk about donald trump today. Okay one more call. Let's see. We can get this in Hey, how's it going? Hello 714 area code You're on you're on book show Nothing, huh? Okay We got nothing. All right Now what is at the core of this and we're gonna have to do next show on on basically on this issue Because I talked for more than I wanted to on mylo and We got so many calls pretty cool, huh? Um, they measure, you know supposedly we measure the the You know, how good a radio show is how many callers call up and yell at the host. So I'm doing well today um Why are we in this state? Why are we in this state now? Obviously philosophically you can take it back to cons into into german romantic philosophy and into play-doh and everything like that But iron man makes this amazing point and I and I really want you I really encourage you to read an essay called the wreckage of the consensus in capitalism the unknown ideal That's the book. I've got an old old copy here with me. Um, it's a brilliant essay. It's just so Cool and and generally I I have a feeling many of you while you've read a la shrug Then maybe you've read some of the key essays You haven't read some of these other essays of vines and and I really encourage you to do so And if you haven't read them in a while even though they're dealing with political issues from the 60s Read them with it with kind of a an approach that looks at, um With an approach that Looks at the relevance of what she's saying for today for today, right? So this is what she says. She says the brute facts of a mixed economy or gang rule Scramble for power by various pressure groups without any model of political principles Without any program direction purpose or long range goals with the tactic tacit belief in rule by force As the only common denominator and unless the trend has changed a fascist state is the ultimate result Now this is exactly what we're seeing today We're seeing the rule because of a mixed economy Because government has so much power over our lives What we're fundamentally seeing is jockeying among various gangs Who all want to control our lives in some way or another? for power And all trying to appease us in some way to try to get that power Now again, it's a big topic that we're gonna have to talk about but I want to read you with this about political ideology A political ideology is a set of principles aimed at establishing or maintaining a certain social system so let me just say that In my view Milo has no political ideology that donald trump has no political ideology because they have no set of principles There are no principles behind this It is a program of long range action. There's no long range here With the principles serving to unify and integrate particular steps into a consistent course It is only by means of principles that men can project the future and choose their actions accordingly Now the old left had principles the old left had a political ideology The old left was trying to do something long range evil as it was The new left and the new right Have no political principle. Have no real ideology Are not trying to achieve anything long range. This is why they're all d ones or d twos in lenin peacock's dim spectrum It's all about disintegration lack of principle lack of long-range thinking Emotion appeasement Trying to manipulate people Here's the continuation anti ideology and this is what everybody is today Anti ideology Consists of the attempts to shrink men's minds down to the range of the immediate moment Wow, is that a description of donald trump? Without regard to past or future without context or memory above all without memory So that contradictions can not be detected errors or disasters can be blamed on the victim I mean, this is straight Donald trump's position on trade. There is no memory. There's no what's happened in the past. There is no facts. There is no economic science There is no, you know There is nothing except What i'm saying right now the certiveness with which i'm saying it And You know and the emotion it evokes in you In anti ideological practice Principles are used implicitly and are relied upon to disarm the opposition But are never acknowledged And are switched at will so you switch principles constantly when it suits the purpose of the moment Just pure pragmatism. It's exactly what she's describing which is anti ideological What purpose? the gangs the deployables you know Manufacturing workers who've lost their jobs, whatever the gang happens to be Thus men's moral criteria becomes not My view of the good of the right of the truth But my gang Right or wrong and let me just say to those of you Who are so pro trump that you can defend everything that he's done As one of the callers suggested That you can defend that that when he does things That obama that are similar to obama and if obama would have done you would have criticized him to height to all You know hugely and now you're defending him hugely You know if obama had passed the muslim ban, you would have said it's too weak and too pathetic Trump passes it. Oh huge step in defending america right This is exactly what she's describing here right Thus men's moral criteria becomes not my view of the good or the right or the truth, but my gang right or wrong This is what makes today's public issues and discussions so seekingly false and futile Wrong premises Yes, sorry, most issues rest on so many wrong premises And carry so many contradictions That instead of the question who is right What is constantly Fantasticly confunded with the question Which gang do you want to support and that's what we've come to in in our in our Dialogue in america. It's about Which gang which group of bastards do you want to support? Is it the leftist who we hate? Is it the rightist who I hate? I don't know about you guys But which gang not what's true Not much reality. So for example You know and again, I think next I think next y'all just do on this because there's so many cool examples She gives the example of the vietnam war, right? Her example is the vietnam one. She goes to the whole discussion about how Everything about the vietnam war is wrong. So it's hard to even to anchor any kind of discussion Where do you even start? Everything about it was wrong. The way it was done the reason it was done everything, right? So you fall the vietnam against the vietnam war. That's like do you beat your wife once or twice a day? Right. There's no answer to it. You can't be for you can't be against because Everything about the context is wrong and distorted and lacks principle and and is quicksand So no matter how you answer the question unless you're iron man And then you untangle and the same thing about it's about You know The way we talk about islam today. It's the same thing Right, aren't you don't you want to aren't you supportive of trump's tough stand against islamic radicals? No Not because I'm not for a tough stand against islamic radicals I am much tougher than than than anything that trump has suggested not because I support the leftist You know pro-muslim stand The same with the discussion of the muslim band aren't you you know if you're against the muslim band Then you must be for Open borders for all muslims If you're against trump's muslim band, then you must be a leftist if you're against trump's muslim band All false alternatives I get this every single day on twitter and facebook these so-called false alternatives where there's no thinking going on No thinking going on It's exactly this no principle and and it's partially I mean I'm yelling at you, but it's not your fault in a sense that this is the culture the culture is an anti ideological culture The culture has taken all principles out Everything's milky everything's in a fog. You can't take a stand. You can't be clear cut. You can't You can't see things straight And nobody does right nobody does so I want to talk next time about about how anti ideology really affects Well next time at the time of that one of these times because I'm going to be away for a while how this anti ideology Frames all of our discussions and how everybody out there, you know a lot of you included You you want simplicity you want You know a or b you want two choices a or b But you struggle when both a and b are wrong And the actual answer is c and c is even less popular than anything in a and b you know, it's it's I'm trying to trying to shut up between philosophical abstractions and concrete um But there's a simplicity. It's left or right It's my low or the modern feminist movement No, it's neither one of those It's not left or right. They're all wrong And and it doesn't mean that the only Right people objective is so though that happens. There's some allies There's some people who are better on the left and on the right who are somewhat allied with us But then they're they're yeah, everybody's wrong except us and you can't Jump to support this gang warfare because the one gang right at this particular me Moment seems to be more appealing to you than the other gang But but that's what i'm seeing out there. That's what i'm seeing by so many people You you can't take these Well, if you're on his uh for open immigration Then he must be for massive muslim immigration into the united states because that's what open immigration You know, you don't listen to what I say one. You don't you you're not thinking right you know Applying philosophy to concrete ideas in reality is not easy And it's not simplistic answers Read iron rand read read. I'm not claiming to be anywhere close to iron rand's level at this, but it's It's complicated and it's in their subtleties And there's i'm a for open immigration But here in these contexts, this is what you're doing. This is how you deal with this and this is how you evolve towards that This is the ideal in a free society and this is the evolution, but nobody cares about any of that I'm for muslim immigration into the united states on a massive scale. That's how people have defined it now. I'm getting I'm getting defensive. Anyway anti ideology this whole idea of the world we live in today Is is pure pragmatism. It's pure emotionalism Milo is a wonderful example of this. There's no principles in what I mean if he had made a principle argument against abortion Really taking thomas equinas and augustine seriously and presenting that argument Which which is what I think a ben Shapiro would do Then I would disagree But I would say okay. I see he's got a political ideology. He's very religious Here's how you combat it But but this but what milo does is spew emotions through the facts that are relevant. He keeps saying I I'm all about facts, but he never gives them And in the meantime, he's trying to insult as many groups as he has many people and as many groups as he can Notice that it's about groups Right, he claims to be an individualist, but he's constantly talking about people in groups So We live in a screwed up world and and I know you guys want to find Anything that You know that that maybe is a glimmer of hope and something good And I'm I'm the bearer of horrible news And and and that horrible news is It ain't there The the the good news is not in the realm of ideas The good news is not in the realm of politics if you want good news go to go watch people Produce in northern north west, arkansas and silicon valley. Those are my examples these days go watch Innovation go watch production, you know in that realm. There's still good things going on Well, I mean You know somebody says milo's doesn't claim to be an individualist I don't think he's actually claimed but he I think if he was asked are you an individualist or collectivist He would definitely say he's an individualist and it's this This notion of individualism is based on emotion is based on saying whatever you want to say is based on being different right Yeah, you want some good news We uh, you're on norberg's uh book called progress excellent book called progress about the good things that are happening in the world It ain't milo. That's not a good thing happening in the world And and I coverage you to read his speeches if you're not if you're not convinced and yeah, I mean you can explain him as as a backlash against the left But I don't think you can justify him Explaining is not just a fun. I understand the context of what he's doing the context is there why it's at brookley people people are punching people in the face people are using pepper spray And he is the backlash to that but the backlash should be reason The backlash should not be chaos preaching of chaos the advocacy for chaos and the advocacy for you know anti-abortion You know, but that you know, that's the most religious he talks Although he mentions this Catholicism in almost every single one of his talks It's it's a big deal for him and the fact that he he's a sinner is a big deal for him as well. All right, so here we are Those of you who want deep philosophical discussions, you know Well, we covered selfishness in the beginning We did a case study on selfishness in the beginning I'm curious what you guys think of that. How many of you would give up the kidney to save seven people's lives? It's kind of a it's almost like a trolley example where you walk off the trolley and let people die Which is which is you know, it's it's a better trolley example because there's actually a A rational egoistic thing to do Versus the trolley example where it's just how many people are going to die and you get to choose which is stupid The whole setup is stupid So we talked a little bit about selfishness You you've got my bottom line on on my low as I said in a previous show I think he's an iris now. I know he is You know a different type of nihilist not the nihilist of the left the nihilist of the right but essentially about chaos and about disintegration and about destruction and Next time we'll see I'll probably be doing my next show from london Not sure what day not sure what time But I'm also thinking about doing a podcast like When I'm traveling like a travel log podcast, so just like half an hour of my travel stuff So that might be happening next week as well depending on how much time I have and depending on where they have wired internet in my hotel rooms and everything else, but I'll be in england this week speaking at high schools I will be in columbia bogata columbia In in a week and a couple of days doing a bunch of events So if you live in bogata columbia some of those events will be open to the public to keep your eye open for those Test out go check out elite university. They'll have the information And after that I'll be in denver for a couple of public events You can watch for and then in chicago For public events. So if you live in chicago or you live in denver I'm coming to your city Watch my twitter watch my facebook and you'll get information about that if you're in london. Sorry, none of the events are really public So, uh, I'm sorry you're gonna miss on them and uh in bogata If there's anybody listening from bogata, I'll see you in a week and so all right Thanks, everybody Have a great week. Wish me a good flight tonight and I will see you next time