 and welcome to the series here that we're doing with Gary Norden and it's about mastering the dome. Today Gary is going to talk about order flow trading and the dome and let me just show you the previous webinar as well. So this was part one that you'll see here if you go to our YouTube channel and you scroll down a bit and then under pro trader webinar series here you'll see that we listed it down here. Really interesting webinar here. Gary has quite a bit of experience and has seen the history of the dome and that's what he went over and covered the origins of the dome working in the pits and how the dome started to evolve and develop. So he's going to go on part two here today with the order flow trading in the dome. So Gary you may have known or not as is responsible for came up with the Norden method. He's been a professional trader for over 30 years including several years in the trading pits of the life pit as a senior trader at some of the world's largest investment banks. He's a co-owner of the NN squared capital and creator of the Norden method. A unique style of trading the order flow via the dome. Gary is author of an end to the bull and technical analysis exposed why most technical analysis traders fail. So let me I'll put these into the chat for you the Norden method.com and Gary Norden.com. So if you want to reach out to Gary if you're interested in what he has to say here some disclosures and then let's turn it right over to Gary. General disclosure all book map limited materials information and presentations are for educational purposes only and should not be considered specific investment advice nor recommendations. Risk disclosure trading futures equities and digital currencies involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. So Gary if you want to go ahead and share your screen and then I will just rebroadcast here. Okay everything looks great. Yeah cool thanks Bruce. So this is the second and in conjunction with the improvements and what we've been doing with book map pro dome just really you know I'm going to continue to talk about the dome why it's such a powerful tool. I'm going to really break it down. I mean one aspect of the Norden method is it's very precise and very targeted and you know we're looking at different parts of edge and different ideas but in quite a lot of detail. So we'll move into a different part today. Last time I spoke about the history of the dome why it was developed who developed it we're going to just expand on that a little bit further today. Again a disclaimer for me as well and so I'm sure you can pause out those of you are watching after this. So recap last time we spoke about the dome was created because the original trading platforms were pretty poor I explained that and so trading platform providers started to liaise with the successful locals or X floor locals and we created started to create this dome. The tools that they asked for what did locals want okay what did order flow locals want they wanted tools to get them in and out quickly they wanted tools to help them judge liquidity see the market information objectively and see the current information only and we're going to talk a little bit more about this today in terms of order flow because this is kind of morphed over the years and now I think what a lot of people think is order flow is not what we would have considered order flow and not what we should consider order flow and I'm going to go into that today as well because I think there's some misunderstanding of that which means there's misunderstanding of how and why we should use the dome. So to understand why locals wanted those things or order flow traders wanted those things we have to understand what order flow trading is there are now nowadays there are many styles of trading that are grouped as order flow but in reality I wouldn't call them order flow and I don't think that you know and I'll explain why and you'll see why and what they are it's not to say they're they're wrong or whatever they're just not what we would classically call order flow styles and I get you know many people say to me oh I've studied order flow trading and when I asked them what they've studied it's not order flow trading and it's nothing like what you know what I would see or use. So pure order flow trading if you are trading pure order flow you are in and out quickly so a few seconds you are trading in the now so you are trading based on what's happening right now you will use current order flow and liquidity in your analysis and execution you can potentially trade at any price level at any moment that's very important at any price level at any moment you generally try to pick off weak traders with most order flow trading it's a high frequency style you should if you're an order flow trader be trading dozens of times and it's not a predictive style so you should not be sitting here thinking where are we going to be in half an hour an hour off you know I think we've reached a low or whatever that's not order flow trading so if the style you use incorporates any or most or you know some of these um you know then you're going towards order flow but if it doesn't you know if you're not trading high frequency if you're trading once or twice a day if you're holding trades for 30 minutes or one hour or two hours it's not order flow if you're not basing your decision on what's in the market right now you're not trading order flow and as we see this is why the dom is used if you think about it as we get on to this is what the dom is exactly made for if I'll just move that away a little bit sorry if we think about an example so most people out here like we know that the citadel buys robin hoods order flow right so retail traders are putting their their orders into robin hood and and that gets routed through citadel citadel are paying to trade that order flow right and we know that citadel is you know we can categorize citadel in that sense as an order flow trader okay so let's have a think about how citadel does and see if it ticks these boxes are they in and out quickly a few seconds yes if they trade against a retail trader coming in they're not going to hold that position for half an hour an hour okay they're going to be in and out of that in a in a second or two and just make the couple of cents that whatever it is that they're being given is it in the now is it based on what's happening now yes a hundred percent like every market maker style it's only based on now you're not sitting there thinking where were we half an hour ago what do I think about you know the volume from half an hour ago this order comes in you will process it and execute it and base it on what's the equity is happening now so point three does it use current order flow and liquidity hundred percent if that order comes in right now can I fill it right now do I just keep it in the order book but it's based on the current situation can they potentially trade at any price yes you don't see citadel buying Robin Hood order flow and then saying I'm waiting for the market to hit this level and then I'm going to buy or I'm waiting for it to hit this level where I think there could be a breakout or I think no it's none of that right they couldn't trade potentially on any market on any retail order at any price at any time and that's very important it's not predictive as well they're not sitting there thinking I think the stock's going up today or going down today or going up for the next hour or down for the next hour they're just in and out straight away no prediction they're picking off weak traders a hundred percent right they're buying the weakest traders in the market potentially the Robin Hood traders is it high frequency yes they're going to trade you know thousands of times a day doing this okay so it ticks all the boxes classic example of an order flow style ticking order box all the boxes they can trade anytime using the current information only and a high frequency so that is an example of an order flow trader and it's one hopefully that by putting this example most of you have heard of what Citadel are doing here it sort of puts it into context and again to to back up what I've just put on the last slide and what you know we're going to go through now so what is not order flow trading and this you know as I said before this is some for some of you who you know may have learned order what you consider to be order flow methods I would not consider them to be order flow so holding trades for minutes for hours using levels that are based on past behavior past volume that kind of stuff we'll get to that in a second it's not pure order flow trading if you use price charts standard price charts at any time you're not order flow trading you know they just they just don't come into the equation at all and we'll look at that more in the next webinar that I'll be presenting in maybe two weeks time or so I've already started writing that one if there's no analysis of liquidity at the time of the trade then it can't be order flow trading and no analysis of exit liquidity which there can't be if you're holding a trade for half an hour or an hour or longer okay you cannot be judging the exit liquidity because you don't know what it will be and as an example with the northern method which is a order flow style you know one aspect of it is we are measuring exit liquidity before we enter a trade it has to be as part of an order flow if you're trading pure order flow I need to know can I get out of this trade in the way I want to get out in the time I want to get out which is usually a second or two so a lot of methods out there would not have these in them and essentially there are you know many styles will analyze previous order flow or really previous volume okay but they are not what we would typically call order flow trading not pure order flow trading and like I say if they're held for several minutes or longer they have no knowledge of liquidity in order flow at the exit therefore it can't be the whole term order flow is you're trading in the flow of orders if you're not judging that flow of orders at the time of the trade okay at the time I'm doing this trade I'm judging can I get in and out of the order flow that's what order flow trading is but it seems to have morphed over the years I spoke about this at the last webinar right though um a bunch of tools and things were added predominantly by some retail traders and that look you know I can understand you know but it's kind of morphed and it started to cloud what what order flow trading is now 15 10 15 years further on it's the some of these ideas have become accepted um you know sort of ideas that they are part of order flow because so many people are have said that and used it but for those of us that are classically trained order flow they're not okay and again go back to what Citadel are doing and and mark off what you're doing in line with that because the pros are still trading the classical order flow styles right the pros are still doing that whether they're a hedge fund or whether they're um you know trading in uh futures for themselves so while there is some analysis in these methods of past order flow of volume yeah there is some analysis of what happened in the past here was an area where there were lots of buyers or where there was lots of volume you know these styles are also they're more predictive why because you're holding a trade for longer if you're holding a trade for half an hour or 20 minutes or 10 minutes you you are more predictive you are saying I think we're going higher pure order flow just means I can get in and out within the next second or two I'm not I don't care where the market's going it is not predictive style about it so again they don't constitute being pure order flow pure order flow is not predictive as generally market making styles which order flow is market making styles are not predictive we want to get away from prediction that's the whole point that's why professionals are attracted to these methods because trying to be a predictive trader for 20 30 years is uh you know effing hard thing to do right it's not on impossible for 99 percent of people so try and find methods where you're not having to predict what's going to happen so I would classify most of these as a form of TA right form of technical analysis some fall on volume analysis but you know and people would class some people classify you know market profile or volume profile styles of trading as an order flow I wouldn't classify them as technical analysis okay and you know that discussion is a different discussion as well if you want to trade in that style so again I hear from many traders who say they're already trade order flow and usually I would say about eight times out of 10 at least when I hear about it and I hear what they're doing I would say that's not order flow trading okay it's just a different style but it's been grouped over the years at that and you know as I said that's it's one of those things I'm not here to say whether it's right or wrong I'm just saying it's different so bring this back to the DOM which is what we're talking about if we think about what what order flow trading is the DOM is the perfect tool for it it's what it was designed for the people that designed the DOM with the people that were doing this so it's not surprising so let's look at why the DOM is perfect for order flow in and out quickly in a few seconds or less yeah you know one of the things we introduce with one click trading right that's so that's perfect ticks that box I can get in and out quickly it's in the now it's based on what's happening now that's a beautiful thing and I'm going to go into this in more depth in the next webinar but the whole one of the great benefits of the DOM is it's only showing you what's happening right now and if you can trade in the now it's massively powerful and most traders can't and the vast majority of trading styles out there are not trading the now realistically even though they say oh I've got a setup now right and it's broken this level or this line that level that line is often based on a lot of information from the past it's actually not based on now and it's often not based on liquidity of what's happening now okay so the DOM doesn't show you the history and for example with an order method I really you know tell my students I do not want them having a price chart on there I don't want you thinking about what's happened in the past I just want you to focus on the now liquidity and order book and price action than now so the DOM is just that that's a massive reason why it's so powerful again I'll go into that in more depth in the in the next webinar the DOM just shows us current order flow current liquidity it's fantastic you know it's so it shows us this this is what we wanted this is why we have it with the DOM we can potentially trade at any price level you know particularly as it is now I went through the history of the DOM last time and I you know explained to you that it that was impossible with the very first trading platforms you know even the very best one um you know back in 2000 you know 1999 2000 even the very best one didn't have the all the price levels that we have now we just had like the five or 10 top prices they could have been anything so that was changed it was amended it was amended at the at the request of locals and order flow traders so now we can trade anywhere any price we want to does it allow us to pick off week traders it does if you're skilled and you understand how and what they look like and why they do it and and those sorts of things so it enables us to do that and again enables us to trade in a non-predictive style you can't see trends on a DOM right which is great you're not trying to think oh I think we're going up or down it's just you know if you look at a DOM on a fast market this morning it's just up and down hazy you know hazy crazy helter skelter um you're very hard to pull much out you know some people struggle with that and because they love seeing you know trends and things easy but actually if you can understand that randomness and you appreciate that there is randomness which is another key aspect of trading the DOM which a lot of traders out there struggle with that concept of randomness right they think there's a pattern behind everything and you know if you believe that you will always struggle okay you're always going to tend towards technical analysis you'd always struggle I saw something on my Twitter feed today albeit on the for you part of Twitter which is generally assessed but this is someone who's actually well respected in in the field that they work in which is technical analysis saying that the last four closing prices of the NASDAQ all ended in eight you know and then of course you get all the the comments about yeah that can't be a coincidence yes it can that is still randomness if you don't understand that we could have four days in a row where the NASDAQ or any index ends in the same number that's just as random as it finishing you know in an eight a seven a three and a two all right this is and again read full by randomness whatever you think of Talib that is a brilliant book and it explains a lot about this this markets but things like that if you're if you tend towards patterns if you're always looking and trying to group something in a pattern or a trend or something you're going to struggle over time at many times in these markets so the DOM is just showing you this randomness and you have to accept there is randomness why is there randomness because of market orders right there's going to be a ton of market orders on the open this morning right and in that first hour or two there's going to be a ton of them particularly for trading in Q understand that it will create price levels it will create all sorts of things but a lot of that's going to be created by randomness pure order flow trading and certainly with like an order method we embrace that randomness and accept it embrace it and just move on with it so not predictive style so the DOM is the perfect product the perfect platform style to use it and plus with time and sales okay so obviously we want this the other essential tool you know what is trading you know you won't get to see every price on the DOM sometimes you won't you want to see what volumes are and so time and sales as well it can help you judge the pace of the market as well it's something we watch again I've said to people before the order flow traders my style or other order flow traders as much as anything we we judge liquidity that's one of the key aspects if you struggle to judge liquidity pace of market you're going to struggle to trade order flow it's a really key thing so time and sales plus DOM these tools are essential and you know if they are good then this is what we use to trade order flow so what we don't use to trade this order flow style past volume analysis I know that's become almost a default part of many DOMs is to have some sort of volume accumulation or past data that's because there's so many forms of what other people term order for trading that use that information for my students I tell them to take those columns off okay I just don't want people to be looking at what's happened in the past as price charts definitely are not part of order flow trading they shouldn't come near anybody you know teaching an order flow style so a number of these standard tools were added at the request of trading of course if you're running a business you're going to add these things and you know there are there are some tools that some order flow traders use that I don't and there are some tools that I would want that some order flow traders won't but there are some that we're all going to probably agree on that are essential and some that I think we'll all agree on that are not essential so you know a lot of things we you know my students will will remove because I really want people to be in there now because that's what pure order flow trading is okay if you think about it and just go back to a Citadel example you know you have to understand like during a day things can change right context can change so the fact that there was a bunch of trades went through a price earlier you know through Robin Hood clients earlier in the day if the situation's changed you should be basing your decision on what's happening now the fact that they at this time last time they all were buying here or there was some big volume it could be meaningless right now context may have changed when we see that a lot in these markets particularly as they become volatile remember too that in terms of areas where there are like high volume areas which is what a lot of people are looking at when they they they think they're order flow trading remember a lot of that can be down to just the level of volatility in the market in a low volatility a low volatility market you know by definition if the ES is trading a million contracts a day and it's low volatility those million contracts are going to be spread out over fewer price levels so there's going to be some you know some areas of there that are going to be quite heavy if the volatility is a lot higher today that million contracts it might be a little bit more than a million contracts but you know let's you know say it's another million point whatever they're going to be spread out over a much wider area so there's going to be lower levels of volume you know even on the biggest level so some of that analysis is really about is it a volatile day or not okay and of course there's always going to be a price level every day that has the highest volume that's going to happen anyway anywhere does it mean it was that was by choice perhaps not always again is if you want to look for patterns you'll find it otherwise my suggestion usually is embraced a randomness of what's happening so if we go back to the tools that we've just added to the book map dom pro okay again it will highlight why you know what these tools are and you know these are great I think they're great tools for some of you who are not order flow traders or trading a different type of order flow maybe thinking well why are these been added so let's go back to this this whole what I've been you know saying the last 20 minutes or so so what has just been added to book map dom pro move orders easier okay one click move okay well that helps us get in and out more quickly which was one of the points I made at the start of this can we get in and out quickly that helps us that's something that is helpful for order flow traders can we see the current trade more easily well that's again there's something that's been changed with the new coloring that you can do on the on the the last trade and also if you have a position now you're hovering there it's also clearer now as well so we can see the where the markets trading out more easily again it's a small adjustment but every one of these small things is important it's something I teach my students all the time little things are just so important and in fact becoming a good trader is all about making very small adjustments it's not about a one you know eureka aha moment it's usually small things that you just keep working on small things to improve there's now a line when you recenter on the new dom it is you know we've built in a book map I shouldn't say wait but you know I was just you know I was a part of the consultation process but you know they now when you when you recenter the dom there's a line that tells you where you came from again that helps us to judge the pace of the market how far is it moving okay it sounds like a small thing it's for my style it's actually quite a cool thing and it's quite important we're also they've also book map sorry I've also introduced trading on the down click something that we asked for so you know when you click your mouse before on the dom pro if you click your mouse it's the up click the order went in again that sounds tiny right you click on the down click little things matter when you're trading in a precise way targeted way like my style and other order flow methods these things are really important in something we asked for really happy that the guys at book map worked on this and did this again helps us to trade more quickly and another thing they've added obviously Q position as well just helps us to know where we are in a pace of things in a liquidity so all of these things have just been added all exactly fit to order flow trading to the style of things to the type to the to tools that are going to help us to trade they're going to help us to get in and out more quickly and see what's happening in the market more easily that's why these things are all driven by order flow trading so they are consistent with what locals wanted when they first designed the dom they're consistent with the order flow trading and they're consistent with being in and out the current liquidity the current market action that's all they're interested in none of the things that certainly that i was suggesting to bruce and the guys at book map are related to you know what happened in the past or you know what can we see what's happening in the past they're all related to the right now and i think they're really cool tools and i'm you know thankful and grateful for to book map for doing that so just to summarize you know first it's important to understand the difference between order flow trading and styles which use past volume in their analysis but are not technically order flow okay and yeah that that that has been you know sort of muddied a bit over the years and i can understand why i can understand everything this gets grouped together but you know i don't think there should be so this will then clarify what tools and what information we really need if we want to be an order flow trader and you know you'll see a clear difference between the two what what they need to work again if we go back to the checklist earlier if i go back to these things that we added if if you think you know your style is an order flow style ask yourself do these things that have just been added do they help your style um and if they don't if you think i can't see how that's gonna help me trade or help me find a trade or you know then it just shows you again that what you're doing is not technically pure order flow um the dom will always be the tool we use i really can't see for pure order flow traders like you know scalper style i i can't see a time where we're not using that it's just such a brilliant tool for it and in particular because it just shows us what's happening now i said that that'll expand upon that topic in the next webinar it's extremely powerful in the hands of a skilled order flow trader if you see someone who's skilled working around the dom it's it's a very powerful tool it's it's phenomenal to to see it um and it is a skill by the way as well it becomes a skill in the right hands and like i say real order flow traders only trade really from a dom um so that yeah that's um the summary of what i've suggested tonight as i say i've got more topics hopefully lined up if i get invited back i'm not sure i might have offended too many people bruce but um hopefully people have enjoyed that if you have questions i'm always happy to answer questions as well yeah no sure um uh gary uh let me see here um i have some questions right off the bat right um so uh and and we got a little bit of discussion going in here uh in um uh the chat in uh in youtube here i would have thought i would have got a few uh yeah yeah a few uh comments after this one someone told me i should have left this one till last by the way someone said leave that topic till last gary you're never getting invited back no no i mean uh it's um no it's it's really great it's really great to hear and and to um uh you know put that uh classical definition on order flow uh and and what it is and um and this and how it relates to your previous webinar uh and the history of the dome of the dome and how it developed and how it became what it is uh is is really important that you made a comment there that it uh is precisely uh uh order flow because that's what the dome is like uh it was developed for these traders um uh so it can't be anything but um so 100 percent yeah um yeah so i i'm curious um we spoke about this last time um uh about the liquidity being the number one thing more or less i mean like uh you say that you know it is so vitally important that uh that the here in the now is talking about the order book and the liquidity uh i'm where there's a question here about book map and and uh hello was asking about uh uh well then book map is showing you know um uh technical analysis it's showing uh you know the past uh and that is true i am curious how if you see some sort of relationships and you know i i i please don't roll your eyes i can just see like yeah i just covered that bruce um i'm wondering though like if you could see some sort of relationships in the historical liquidity that are very similar uh to what you're looking at in in the dome it's it's more about the kind of bigger here and now so so firstly i'm only talking about order flow trading so you know as you explained to me the history of book map really and for example the heat map is for a different style of trading so if you're trading in a different style then you know you would need different information and you know the heat map which is already called as well um you would be using different information or i've really just talking about pure order flow trading um so i'm not saying that there are no other styles of course there's lots of other styles of trading i'm just saying what constitutes pure order flow trading as as it was and as it still is for the professionals um so really i am just interested in right now can i get in can i get out that that's what i'm interested in it it doesn't if knowing that i could have got in and out of this an hour ago is interesting but it may not be important you know it's like can i get in and out if you think about it if can i get in and out of this stock in a certain way today it's going to be very different to how you would have got in and out of it yesterday for example right yesterday rallying day in the market if you were trying to sell for example yesterday right knowing that knowing all of what happened yesterday is pretty much irrelevant for you if you're day trading today if you were but found it easy to sell yesterday and you could have looked at all volume levels it was irrelevant if you wanted to sell yesterday in a rallying market it's quite easy today if you want to sell you're going to have to trade a bit differently and yesterday's order flow yesterday's levels or whatever it is to me is completely irrelevant and it's it's you know i think it is the way i view even you know for a bit longer trading but that's always what i say to people if you can if you try to hang on to past data you can end up making some mistakes so for coming back to a pure order flow trading really it's about being in an hour you know and that if you it's i can't explain how enough about how trading in the now is so powerful to free up as i say there are other methods that do require you to analyze past information but generally they're more what i would call position style predictive styles of trading that's a different that's a different area that's a different area okay and it's an area that for example if i'm day trading i don't want to go there and that's just that's my view i don't want to go down the predictive position trading on a day trading perspective i would much rather just get in and out quickly and do that as many times as i can yeah yeah so i guess the question is like even uh it that we have the heat map and the recording of the actions with the liquidity heat map however it does also show the here and the now on a higher time frame but still like so many things can happen between the moment and you know it could be several hours before that liquidity is even trades if it ever trades uh so uh yeah i guess it would be your answer is that you're you're looking for the here and the now for something that is very sure uh and and this style of trading is is very different even though you have the liquidity uh on a much higher time frame that you know may fit the concept that you're looking for but the style is very very different that because you're looking for like here's an opportunity and i am pretty sure that this will work this will happen yeah i think with any market making pure autoflow style you generally will be looking for a much higher win rate you should happen right i don't think citadel is sitting there thinking oh if we can make money on 50 percent of our trades against robin hood traders will you know 52 percent we're making money i'm pretty sure you know citadel i reckon they can make money on a higher percentage of the trades with that on those trades with their trading against robin hood clients and they should be in that style in that autoflow market making style um and i think you know one point i probably did emphasize and again i'm not here to i suppose i was not really trying to persuade people to trade in these ways i you know with this series i'm trying to explain the evolution of the dom and why it's powerful and for what styles and that's you know that's the theme and i'm gonna go along different areas of this over the next you know few webinars but one area that i probably didn't focus on enough uh in this particular one uh was frequency that's really important it's and i mentioned that it you know if you're not a high frequency if you're only trading once or twice a day that really isn't autoflow trading um autoflow trading is you know generally a much higher frequency and you know generally professional traders will move towards uh a trading style with higher frequency um whereas you know we'd rather have higher frequency ask yourself why there's firms like robin hood and all those big hedge funds just want to trade against you know you know mickey mouse to what's the average robin hood account has like 250 dollars right why would they want to trade against all these tiny little guys they're just tiny little trades yeah but you would do it if there's thousands of them every day that's a very professional style of thought process so we tend to move towards something that we can trade dozens and dozens or thousands of times if you're a fund um but i say i'm not here to persuade people to to trade in this style i'm just explaining why the dom was created this way and why the dom is so powerful for this style because hopefully from what i've explained today is you can see why these things that we've added and why the dom created why it's just brilliant for autoflow trading real autoflow trading um and it is it's a fantastic tool if you're not trading autoflow you can still use it for sure of course you can i'm not saying it's only applicable i'm saying it is it's you know it is essential for autoflow trading and it is a brilliant tool in the hands hands of a skilled autoflow trader it's fantastic but if you're trading other styles you know you have the heat map for example um so you know or whatever else it's designed around um right that makes me yeah yeah i mean uh a big distinction even i you know we're trying i was trying to answer the question and wondering if the the concepts of what you're looking for can be applied to a higher time frame liquidity uh that is in the here and now it's just very far away but it is very high time frame or liquid liquidity um uh and the quick answer is obviously a big no um um uh the um uh yeah it makes sense though i mean you're you're basically trying to it sounds like uh with the here and the now you you see an opportunity to facilitate a trade to be able to get in at a specific price uh based on the liquidity uh and then uh to get out at a very specific price uh not far away just due to some in some sort of imbalance in there yep yeah that that's the key part of it is to know that you can get out as well um you know every time you're trading short term like i said with citadel they'll you know you'll fill an order because you know you can get out i've said this before and i don't know maybe i'm on here or in some of my own recordings or for youtube that um some people think market making they have i think we did about this before right misunderstanding of market making um some people think market making is about front running and it's not and you become a skilled market maker when you can fill orders do i know whether i can fill an order here you know trade against it and you know and so you know citadel sit there going they're not sitting there trying to jump in front of little retail orders why would you want to do that you would want to fill retail orders because they're pretty poor um so it's about but you need to know that i can fill this order and i and i'm reasonably be certain you know that i can get out of that trade well um and realistically if i fill someone now i really only know with a very high degree of certainty that i can get out of that trade well in the next sort of second or two right i have got no idea whether in 10 minutes time i'll be able to get out of that trade because i've got no idea whether market will be in 10 minutes time and one of the assumptions that you i i think is a good assumption you know and assumptions are usually dangerous in this industry but one of the assumptions i have as an order flow trader is i haven't got a clue where this market will be in 10 minutes time or five minutes time just assume i haven't got a clue and i think there's probably too many traders who think they can predict where it's going to be in five and that's the game that they want to play the game this industry often tells them it's about prediction it's not you know to not set up professionals it's just can i get in and out of this thing quickly and then it's a case of do you have the skill set to understand that liquidity understand the conditions where you'll do that well understand how to protect yourself understand what are weak orders where are they but once you have that skill set that's you know it's not a predictive game and order flow trading shouldn't be you should just be in and out of the flow of orders yeah yeah yeah makes sense and just there were a lot of kind of various questions in here about the bookmap dome and the updates etc i can show you about that in just a minute but i also want to show you here during the can answer a lot of the questions from previous webinars with gary under this pro trader webinar series on our youtube channel let's just click on that and i'll show you in here so if you scroll back down you'll see here this is gary mastering the dome the origins of the dome that i showed you earlier and then here's a pro trader webinar with gary as well this was back like three months ago or so and this one might be a good one if probably answer a lot of questions people are having so you might want to watch rewatch that one or or access that one and then regarding the book map a marketplace or the questions about the hold on a minute here and this isn't it this okay about the dome and execution pro so it comes with the book map global plus version which makes you know good sense that you'll get that and let me show you that as well so if you go to the pricing section here you'll you'll see it here like under global and global plus you'll see if we scroll down here the dome pro and execution pro it's only with the global plus version here all right so you will need that because it this is the one that offers the one-click trading so you'll you get the the dome with it and yeah the the we've kind of separated now between the dome pro and execution pro you will get both but the dome is is standalone and works just just just great within book map so give it a try and you know see if you like it a lot of new changes have been made let me show you where you can find out information on that go to our knowledge base that's under the more button here and then go to the knowledge base and scroll down or here you'll see dome pro here okay in the add-ons section of the knowledge base so go to dome pro and then you can see in here there's a video as well and other other changes that have taken place in here and updates etc so position in queue is one of them this one click canceling the other order is another one these are all it's all feedback and suggestions that we've gotten from Gary and other his students and other like-minded dome traders so it you know we made these changes for you guys and hopefully it's helpful for you so I hope that answers some of the questions in here there's like I said it's kind of a variety of different questions so Gary like I'm I don't know can you maybe give us an example like perhaps of I mean I we don't have any visuals here but you know and then I'm not trying to get to your secret sauce but something to just kind of lean on to understand what it is you're kind of looking for in the concept here between in the order book the here and the now to be able to say ah okay I see there's an opportunity here to get in and also to get out yep um it will depend on on which market you're in right how how thick within the market is your judgment is different in the nq than it would be in you know yes even and it would be in zb and for sure it would be in tens right and and for my start on my students we we avoid tens okay um it's just not a contract we'll go into um realistically we start by thinking as you should always start where is my edge who are the people I want to trade against I mentioned here you want to pick off weak orders when you're a an order flow trader in a bank on the floor like you know I was at both um or you know if you're even a hedge fund now you've got to separate orders that you feel that you can make money from and orders that you're just going to basically just get out of for scratch or whatever you know and you're you don't often have a choice when you're market making or order flow trading in the pit store for a bank or for a hedge fund you've got to take everything that comes through so for example citadel have to trade everything right it comes through from robin hood they can't pick and choose but they they will have to know which are those orders are weaker than others which are those orders can they trade so a lot of what I try to do is to teach people how how you can try to recognize weak orders and a lot of it comes down to well who's placing them so a lot of trading styles are based on trying to work out where the big guys are enjoying with them that's just not what I'm trying to do I'm trying to recognize there are a bunch of weaker traders in this market okay and that's be quite frank they're retail traders okay that's this frank and the first thing is that most people essentially they they ignore those trades so while it's that most people are out there analyzing all the big volume and the big volume areas I'm doing the opposite right I'm just want to know what are how are they trading what are their weaknesses when are they likely to make those weaknesses and that's essentially gonna from there I can build a structure I can build some ideas in terms of liquidity if I'm trading like ones and twos in NQ or twos and threes and yes I know I can get in and out generally but not always but there still will be some judgment calls I need to make on that liquidity and pace and there's still some things I need to understand about liquidity and pace to make sure that I'm not I'm not getting it wrong and then the other layers that we build on that would include how do I protect myself you know and you do need to understand situations that are not good for us that where you know we can ourselves be picked off you know because we are also small traders so there's that balance between I need to pick someone else off and I must make sure that I can't be picked off as much as possible it's going to happen of course in this market you're always going to have times where shit you know I was on the wrong side that one need to get myself out but generally trading should start with who do I have edge over why do I have edge over them and then break it down I've said in this webinar lots of small little things lots of small things that we just work on and it's to do with that you know can I get in can I get out do I think I can pick someone off here there are certain conditions are good certain or not and I just I saw I've seen a comment there I just want to get to this because this is something I get asked a lot and there's a misunderstanding okay about what this style is so there's a question about how do I protect one tick okay there's a feeling that this style of trading is all about making one tick it's that's not it okay what you you make what the market will give you which will be different today than it was yesterday and different yesterday than it was the day before and different the day before than it was a week ago and that's really so is it one tick sometimes it will be one tick if it's very slow moving on a slow moving day but if it's very slow moving then you're also not going to be losing 10 ticks if it's slow moving by definition if you're get you know if it's a slow day if it's a fast day and the market's moving a lot you will you will get more you know so you know if you're if I'm thinking I'm holding a trade for two seconds if the market's moving 12 ticks in two seconds and that's going to be my profit target right that's so yeah people think I was always one tick trading no it's not it's what the market can give you and that's another thing that I'm always coaching my students about because people are trying to hold for this or they set targets and like you don't have targets not I don't have targets some students do it's like what can I get what does the market give me because you know what that's something that's out of my control and again when people set targets and I get that and there's a lot of styles that say that you can set targets you're almost saying that I can I have some sort of influence I I don't think I've got any influence over where this market's going even in the next two seconds so what does it give me I'll take it that's it again I just embrace the randomness and embrace a whole bunch of things that are out of my control and I think trading becomes far easier when people do that and you stop thinking about oh they look at that they they stop the market two ticks for my this or they got me out or they there's no they all right there is no they and that's the classic thing I accept everything it's just randomness and I accept that the most things are out of my control and I don't blame anybody when I get it wrong it's a hundred percent me sorry I think I went on too long yeah no no no that was great that was fantastic just stop me bro just cut in and say ciao you ready you said enough no I have another question I'm reading through all the questions here and I you know trying to pick off some of the questions in here and cover them a lot about the new features etc but I'm also wondering about you mentioned it here about sometimes you get it wrong and how this maybe the style of trading or just the participants have changed over the years and you have you know some very fast moving markets with these algorithms and high frequency trading and how do you know if you are getting involved in some sort of toxic order flow how do how can you stay away from that yeah that's a that's a great question and it's something I I do get asked a lot and I'm happy to say I actually did both in my substrate newsletter which is free by the way and my youtube channel I recently done an article about hft trading it's quite in depth as well suffice to say this hfts are not really much of an issue for us you know they and one of the big reasons is that the timeline they trade on as it was someone said to me a very good market trader very good trader said to me you know before we can even blink they're in and out right they're trading in microseconds and they're more often than not they're trading against each other because they're the only participants trading in microseconds so most of the time and realistically there's not really a business model for microsecond traders to trade against retail small two lots and three lots there's not much of an opportunity for that in microsecond so a lot of the time they trade against each other but go back to it in the early days so the northern method is you know my method has evolved over time like in the early days you could trade against some of the bigger traders more but you know I started to realize that and this is you know that we talk about go back to the last webinar about the transition from the floor what was the biggest once we sorted the dom out and once we got the dom as we wanted it there's one piece of information that even today's doms doesn't have one massively critical piece of information that we're never getting back right which is who was it that traded that's what we had on the floor that's what we had on apt which I explained right you knew who traded it that gave you some ideas about what was going on there were some people you would happily jump in front of and some people you would happily fade but we didn't know that anymore so what started to you know as I started to evolve was I have to change what I'm doing but coinciding with it was because I couldn't know what the big guys who they were what they were doing there are some big guys like I say you're happy to fade them right because they're forced buyers for example option traders if a big option trade goes through and they are forced into buying es right now you would often fade that type of trade right because they're just trading because of an option trade but now we don't know if that was an option buyer buying 800 or 1000 es or wherever that was a real buyer so we don't know that anymore and understand again I understand what I do know I understand what I don't know so I don't know what these players who these players are or what they're doing so I had to again evolve use the same style of trading but evolve and go who do I know are in this market and of course the retail traders I've got a fair idea how most of them trade I have a fair idea that most of them are not very good and I have a fair idea that they're not going to be very good tomorrow and a year later and five years later and fortunately you know as we go into the early 2000s there's more and more and more of them because one thing this industry has done really well is to bring more and more new retail traders in generally trading in the same types of styles and so there's more of them so I just realized that I can just develop a style that really is saying can I just pick off from people make these guys make mistakes just understand them a bit more and and and work and recognize that they're weak you know if I had the resources I would do what Citadel doing as well and buy Robinhood order flow that's what you want to do that's exactly what you want to do find out who the weak traders and trade against them right that's you can't really get much more of a model whereas the model I grew up with and I had to skew myself in when I was in the bank and the pitch was trading against the big guys right as a local options market maker in the pit in London we had to trade against Salomon and Goldman and JP Morgan and we had to fill their 2000 3000 orders that's what we had to do so I was skilled in learning how to fill big orders same investment banks but luckily the skills stayed the same but now I had to just evolve them so yeah the bigger traders I just have to look at how this market did evolve yeah for sure I'm not worried about the HFTs I really don't worry about them but the big guys I don't know who they are anymore what they're doing so I just I can't use a style that picks them all try you know tries to incorporate that into my method too much they show me some information but it's not like it used to be and I think that's quite important certainly is for me does that does that make sense yeah yeah absolutely and Gary I'm wondering if you can maybe point us to that video that you had just mentioned I've got your youtube channel up here and I can put this into the chat for people if they want to further yes if you click on videos it should list them in in the more recent order so the third one along on the top row why HFTs are not always your enemy and there's a there's a link in there as well to a substack look at that I get all the junk guys advertising that's just killer in it really look at that yeah so yeah there's a link in there to the substack that escalates it in more depth as well but as I talk about what is the game they're playing again and misunderstanding I think out there of what they are how they've evolved and you know I did that in conjunction with another trader out there as well so that was written in conjunction with someone else it was a topic that we both get asked about a lot so I just said to him let's do a substack first and article and then I did the video as well okay okay excellent so I'll put this into the chat and let's see we've got to wrap it up here so I don't know if there's any more last questions or maybe any more last thoughts that you have now I'll just tell everybody just to be careful out there at the moment it's obviously very difficult conditions things are changing you know body out so just wish everybody well and I'll just share just I said to my students right that it's a stupid for Bruce but I'll say this with people your career as a trader if you want to last in this industry will be defined by your ability to stay out and you know everybody thinks you know this is all about trading a lot and the opportunity is if the conditions are too hard for you too tough it doesn't suit what you're doing stay out and you know I can't say that enough what we really want as traders something again I said to my students all the time you want good days and days that you don't trade so recognize as quickly as possible if the conditions are too tough or you know you think the market is too hard it's not an opportunity it's going to hurt you so just stay out and I think there's something that a lot of traders you know you have to know when when is your time and when it's not and when it's not just stay out so just be careful to people out there really okay excellent well thank you very much Gary we'll do it again in a couple weeks and we'll take it from there my pleasure thanks for inviting me on Bruce all right bye bye everybody