 as I have stepped more into the role of the teacher is to also make sure that I balance, you know, my own time for my own practice. Right, so hey, Dana, how are you? I'm doing well, Kyla, how are you doing today? I'm very well. And I will say we are recording in 2022. So for everyone that's watching, we recorded this towards the end of last year and I just saw you yesterday. You did, that's right. We were doing some yoga together. Yes, absolutely. So everyone, this episode is a follow-up update, refresh, whatever you wanna call it, about a prior podcast guest, this is Dana Shaker. And I'm so excited that you're here. If you're listening to this on the podcast, hey, make sure you go to YouTube and watch the actual video where both Ohioans, it's gonna be great. I love meeting Ohioans, especially in the online space where it's all these cool business owners, all these cool lawyers in my space and they're like, oh, I'm from Ohio. And I'm like, what? Really? Where? It's such a blessing, it's really fun. Ohioans are everywhere and I love to, especially when you meet people outside of Ohio and you're like, hey, you're kind of cool. And they're like, oh, it's because you're from Ohio. I know that's why. Especially with you, because we got connected on Instagram and then we were chatting the first time and I'm like, what? You're from Cleveland? Like Dana, would you give people just a bit of an update about what you're currently doing and how you became a yogi? Yeah, totally. So my name is Dana, as you know, I am a lawyer. I'm a trademark lawyer. I have my own trademark law firm now, which is an update from last time. I am a policy consultant and I'm also a yoga and wellness teacher specifically for lawyers, law students and law grads and for those who are studying for the bar exam. And I got into yoga, honestly, when I was in high school because I was a competitive swimmer in high school and college and so yoga was a little bit of cross-training for us, but I really got into kind of the deeper yoga, meditation, mindset work after law school when I was studying for the bar exam because that was a moment in time. If you go back to the original episode, you can hear me talk more about that story, but that was a moment in time where I really had to kind of dig deep and learn more about myself, who I was and what I wanted to come out of that experience and that challenge. So that's when I really kind of came back to yoga in a new way. I was after graduating from law school and then continued my practice after that and eventually wanted to open my own yoga and wellness business to support other lawyers who are going on their own inward journeys and pursuing health in their lives. Yeah, absolutely. And what is your business called? It is called journey and practice. And thank you for that question because that is different from last time. Okay. Yeah, when I started, I think I called it the inward journey with Dana Shaker. It hasn't evolved to journey and practice and the idea being that you kind of, you go on this inward journey to connect with yourself. You practice wellness, you practice law. So there is kind of a two-step process and a methodology, if you will, to everything that I do. And it is that sort of going inward, finding out more about yourself and then practicing it in your own daily life. Yes. And what I really love is the title of your company, journey and practice, because I am a lawyer, I went to law school, I actually never practiced law, but I wanted journey, so I still fit. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I love the idea of practicing too, the kind of the idea of practicing because it harkens to showing up for yourself every day, and being intentional with your time, whatever you're doing, whether you're practicing law, whether you're working in policy, whether you're still kind of have the opportunity to practice, to grow and to change. So I'm glad the title resonates with you. It does. And I actually think there is a little bit of like a double entendre there because yoga is a practice, right? It is, that's right. So let's talk about that. What made you decide to become a yogi? And more importantly, since high school, keep it going. Yeah, so I am somebody who always really loved the experience of just kind of being with myself. That's all, describe it, right? So the world can seem so chaotic sometimes, right? There's so many things happening and very much similar to kind of swimming, which was my sport in high school and college, where you kind of dive in the water and the world sort of falls away and you're just, it's just you in the water, yoga is that experience for me. It's very kind of turning inward, more meditative, a chance for me to really kind of slow down and be with my body, be with my emotions, be with my sense of self. And so that is really that experience of having a moment for myself, if you will, right? Is what allowed me to kind of stay connected with that experience through high school and college. But then it's also that experience that made me think of yoga as a tool and a methodology when I was going through that transformative period of time, when I was studying for the bar exam and that ultimately helped me to pass the bar, right? Because it was that thought of yoga being, not just a workout or not just movement, but also a chance to kind of deepen your own relationship with yourself and have that chance to pause and slow down and cultivate that being present in the moment, if you will. So I hope that answers the question. It does. It definitely does. You explained the different steps and levels to us. Spoiler alert, for anyone who hadn't noticed, we have already spoken. We spoke when you were on a prior episode and you were like, yeah, I'm a yogi, I do this. I was like, oh, cool, great. And I won't say that that's it, right? We stay connected. We've talked every now and then. We have little coffee meetups. But I had a health scare for my birthday. My doctor was like, you need to include more exercise. And I was like, what can I do from home, right? I was like, I don't want to buy a treadmill. I definitely don't want to buy an exercise bike. And I was like, oh, let me look up yoga. And then I was like, I know a yogi, right? I was like, wait, Dana is right here. And if she has time, let me talk to her. So you are talking about yoga in terms of the meditative practice getting still with yourself being present. But yoga actually can be physical exercise. Would you talk about some of the differences or some of the different ways that you've practiced yoga? Yeah, absolutely. And this is one of the things that I love about yoga is that, again, for me, I have this connection with the meditative and the slowing down. But there are styles of yoga, of course, that are more fast-moving. And people are like, yep, this is my 20-minute, 30-minute workout for the day, right? So one of the traditional styles of yoga that you might experience if you walk into a yoga studio is vinyasa flow. So that is your pose, exhale, another pose, right? So that is a traditional style. I do teach that style, although I like to think that mine is a little more, I call it like an intentional vinyasa because I teach on Zoom for folks at home. And so I'm very cognizant of the auditory cues so that you at home can say, OK, I need to put my foot here and think about drawing my abs up and all this other stuff, right? Like hot yoga, if you go into a room and you're just hot and sweaty and you're moving all the time, there are other styles of yoga that are somewhat similar to vinyasa. So one of them is hatha yoga. So you might hear that if you go to a studio or a engar as well. And then there are more passive practices that I love very much. And those are yin yoga, which is perhaps my favorite style where you hold poses for three to five minutes. And this is really an experience of being with yourself. But oftentimes emotions can come up in a yin practice because you're just, you know, you're hanging out for a couple of minutes. So it gives you that stillness, that chance to catch up with yourself. And then there are restorative yoga practices. There is yoga nidra, which is affectionately referred to oftentimes as sleep yoga because it can help you to get into that delta wave brain sleep state where you get your best sleep at night. So those are a couple of the different practices. There's also fascia yoga. I love fascia yoga personally. And that is sort of like a kind of like an add-on or a style, you know, two different types of practices you can do. But those are a couple of the different types. Yeah, I mean, you just named like eight. I did, yeah. No, that's great. I'll make sure that I list them on the screen. And for everyone listening, we are diving into yoga in a more intentional way than we did the last time. The last time was more so what's your journey with law school. And I see the correlation, but more so talking about you as a lawyer and as a business owner. This one is more so yoga is pretty cool. Share with me since I'm new to it, right? Yeah, yeah. So as you were explaining those eight different kinds, probably more, but do you know what type of yoga we were practicing yesterday? I remember you do a really good job of explaining what's happening, right? Because it's really hard to work out on Zoom and you're trying to do the moves, but you're like watching your screen. So you're like change this foot or move your knees, so as I'm listening with my AirPods, I can just kind of move and not be trying to watch the whole time. So what kind of practices were we doing yesterday? Was it like a hybrid or? The way that I teach oftentimes is I'll come into a space and I'll ask people, how are we feeling today, right? Do we want a little more active? Do we want a little more passive? Are there certain places and spaces in the body that you wanna focus on? So shoulders, neck, back, right? How can we make this the most effective practice or most restorative for you today, right? And so I usually craft a practice based on that feedback. So yesterday we did a little bit of vinyasa. I threw in some fascia yoga elements there. Those were like the spiral movements and the circles that we did. And I would say those two are probably the primary focuses, but obviously as we kind of came to the end of the practice, I was focusing a little more on stretching, a little more on restorative elements, but we definitely, we didn't do any yin or sort of traditional restorative style practices. So it was mostly vinyasa and then some fascia yoga. But even that again, because of the remote environment and because I wanna make sure that you can, if you want to, you can just listen, right? And practice along. I do like to describe that vinyasa as more of an intentional flow where I'm giving you maybe two or three cues for each sort of movement. Whereas if you're in a class and you're in kind of a flow, you're just, it's like inhale, cow, exhale, cat. You're just kind of doing that after a point in time. Okay. For the YouTube video, I'm definitely gonna show some clips of me stumbling through. Oh, she was great. She was great. Everyone, she's great. Well, so what surprised me was that, you know when like your lower back hurts, you wanna like pop your back or something. And I didn't realize I was doing it wrong until you had us do a move where we moved our torso over to the left or the right. And then we had our knees laid to the opposite side and our neck would lay the side of our knees. It felt so good. And all I did was move my hips to like an inch or two to the left or the right and then my knees the other way. And I was like, it's working. Right, I'm laying there. And I was like, I feel amazing. So I don't know if yoga is supposed to do that, but it did. That's wonderful. I mean, that warms my heart to hear. And, you know, for those specific cues, I'll point to two different teachers who kind of taught me that. So, you know, when we were in that position, we were on our backs and we were dropping our knees to one side. And oftentimes when people cue this, they'll just say drop your knees to the side, right? I always tell people to move their hips a couple of inches to the opposite side of where your knees are going to drop because ultimately that helps to keep your spine in alignment when you do go to the side. If you don't do that, then it kind of like throws your, you know, I'm sort of going with the motion. Like you kind of throws your upper back out of whack with your lower back. But if you just take a moment to kind of readjust and set up, then you're more in alignment when you do move over. So that was from one teacher where I did my 200 and 300 hour teaching, you know, training with, she was very, you know, adamant about that. And I appreciate that, my own teaching. And then a lot of times people do say, you know, when you're in that side twist, you know, you can go ahead and move your head to the opposite side of where your knees are pointing. And I mean, you can try that, but it does tend to put more pressure on your cervical spine, on your neck. And so, you know, when we are in more of a restorative style of posture, you know, we want to make sure that we're giving our body every opportunity to rest, to relax. And so just by moving your neck toward the side where your knees are pointed or just looking straight up, you know, you're not adding additional stress, you know. And so that's what I'm really going for. I want the least amount of injuries, right? We want to make sure that we're feeling good and that we don't have any potential for that. So yeah. Which I appreciate. It's very thoughtful from you as a Yogi. And it also is important because you're a lawyer, right? You're not suing me from this class. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no injuries, no injuries, no injuries. You even had to sign like a little waiver and it's like, I am not your medical professional, because I'm a medical professional, pre-start. And I was like, she is covering every single basis. Her law degree is shouting. I was so, I was like, yes, do it. So our class, we had it. And I'm like, okay, you know, I'm in a junkie basement room, whatever. But I kind of forgot about all of that. And then I get up, I go upstairs and, you know, my husband's like, do you want to catch up on the walking dead or whatever with me? And I'm like, I could run a marathon. I was so energized. I don't know if it was like, I couldn't tell you. But like for like maybe an hour, maybe an hour, 15 minutes, I was like, my adrenaline was going crazy. And I was like, how did I just do this restful thing? And then I felt like, you know, I could have pushed the car up the street afterwards. It was really weird. Have you heard of yoga kind of giving you a little energy boost or kind of resetting you? Yeah, I have. And I mean, I think a lot of times people's experiences coming out of a practice are different. And then they also vary based on the style that you do. So with ours, I mean, we did some vinyasa and we did some fascia yoga. So, you know, but we weren't, I don't think that there was a very stressful class. Like it was a good workout and we were moving, right? I didn't expect that anybody would walk out of there and be like, I'm exhausted, you know what I mean? But I think that what's really cool about your experience is you might have just kind of got enough moving, kind of woke yourself up just enough to, you know, to kind of start to feel really good and energized and vitalized and that can happen. Yeah, I mean, not even full disclosure, but you're on the West Coast, I'm on the East Coast. So we were doing this at night. It was 815 p.m. I had a full day. We had just come from swim class, like, you know, you're almost to the point where it's like, oh, it's more work to cancel than just go. So I went, so like I was not feeling that way when I started. So it was a very distinct switch of energy and mood when I was done. So. That makes me so happy that just, and again, sometimes it's even just the act of taking a little bit of time for yourself, you know, in a way that is intentionally, you know, restful and restorative. I will say that sometimes in a YIN practice, right? You know, so you, you know, you go and you hold those poses and you come out of it. I have definitely felt energized after that. I've also felt even sleepier. So sometimes people will come out of those more passive practices and they'll just go to bed because they're tired, right? You know, they've more activated that, you know, parasympathetic side, that rest and digest side of their bodies. And they say, okay, it's time for bed. And, you know, that's great too, but I personally have experienced, you know, the full kind of gamut, you know, of coming out of a practice and feeling different ways, you know, based on, you know, what I've done during that day or, you know, what my general energy level was going in. But I always love when people feel better in some way, you know, whether it's like revitalized with more energy or they just feel calmer and kind of release the stress from that day coming out of a practice. And I will definitely keep that in mind that I could feel differently based on different classes, right? It's not that every time you do yoga, you walk out feeling the same way, you know, good or bad, right? Maybe sometimes I come out and I am ready to go to sleep. Maybe sometimes I do feel, but I'll keep that in mind. So I'm not trying to like push myself to make sure I have the same experience every time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I love that you pinpointed that too because, you know, there can be this idea of if I do, you know, ex-practice, I will feel ex-way. And in my experience, that's not true, but it also, I mean, a lot of yoga philosophy is about, you know, being present in the now, being present in the experience that you have and understanding that experience can change. And that's okay, right? That's the beauty of life is that we have the opportunity to change every day and we do change every day. So. So speaking of change, so you have your practice, you're still consulting and then let's talk about your trademark office or, you know, business, the fact that you're working for yourself. How is that going? And what made you decide to include that as well? It is going well. I will start with that. Good. So a little bit of background. So when I started the yoga business in the online space, started working with bar prep students. That's kind of where I started out. And then I started to meet other online lawyers and particularly young women lawyers who had their own law firms. And this was at the height of the pandemic. And so, you know, everybody was remote, but I was just so inspired by them. I was like, wow, look at this, you know, like people who are my age, you know, who are, you know, graduated from law school, who have maybe a few years under their belt or they're just graduating and they're just diving in to this whole entrepreneurship world, you know, and having their own firms and being able to work with these really cool entrepreneurial clients. I was just like, wow, like I want to do that. Like, how do I do that? Yeah. And so I wanted to take some time to figure out what area of law I wanted to practice in. If you remember from the first episode, if you listened to the old episode that Kailin I recorded, I went to law school because I was interested in food law and policy and I still am, but I wasn't quite sure how that might translate to the online space, particularly working with entrepreneurs and that sort of thing. So I started thinking about, you know, well, how can I contribute from a business perspective, you know, and find an area of law that I would be interested in practicing and trademark law became, you know, a field that I never expected to like, but I did sort of a thing. It has a lot of the same fun kind of regulatory elements to it that food law does. Like there are, you know, there are systems that make sense in the world of the, you know, trademark world and the USPTO and stuff that maybe don't make sense to us like rationally, you know, in our world. And that was kind of the zany element that I loved about food law. And, you know, the other thing, the real reason I wanted to do this was because as I was starting my yoga business, I realized, you know, how much of a lack there was to some extent in the online entrepreneurial space when it came to legal, right? You know, like I had to figure out contracts. I had to figure out, you know, IP protection and all that. And I wanted to be, you know, a resource. I was like, I have these skills, you know, I can do this and I want entrepreneurs to thrive, right? Like I, you know, I have my own business. I happen to be a third generation law firm owner, which is cool. And I was like, the more that, you know, I can be of service and support to this entrepreneurial space because I really have loved the way that it's exploded and the way that, you know, people are really diving into their passions and being of service to others. I was like, I want to, how do I support that? Right? Yeah. So that's really why I started the firm. And, you know, I've gotten to work for some pretty cool clients so far and, you know, excited to work with more folks in the future. Yeah, that's awesome. So, when and how do you find the time to do all three of these things? That's really sweet. It's a good question. Well, certainly mornings, evenings and weekends, you know, I am still working with my policy consultant job. So, you know, that's my kind of nine to five, if you will, you know, but I have mornings, evenings, weekends, a little bit of lunch breaks here and there and a really supportive fiance who says, you know what, if you have to work today, that's in on a weekend, that's okay. Yeah. Oh, well, I love that. So, I'm really happy that we're recording the video. I don't think we even turned on our cameras for the first recording. We did not. Yes. And so, if I remember, of course, I mean, I didn't see you, but I imagine you talking about being in San Diego, Sacramento? Sacramento, that's right. Sacramento. You're talking about being in Sacramento, working in policy, and I just pictured you sitting out stairs on like city hall steps, like talking to me on your phone. So, it's very cool to see you outside of, you know, pictures on Instagram and stuff like that and actually record with you, so. Yeah, I love it too. And I mean, that whole situation, right? Like, I think the world is more comfortable with, you know, hybrid work situations now, right? Post pandemic, you know, it's my, it's, you see my home office. This is my home office, my yoga studio, you know, I've got my plants behind me. Yeah. So next thing, we'll have to like come back in another year and a half and maybe meet you person. I'll come out to California and we can be like, now, you know, just keep like elevating it, yeah. Absolutely, I love that. I love that. Or I can meet you in Ohio. That's great too. Yes, absolutely. So Dana, one last question here, and that is, has anything changed since the first time we recorded to now recording? Maybe a year and some change later. Is there any big difference in your practice as a yogi? That is a great question. I'm sure there is, I'm searching. I think that one of the big lessons that I've had to learn as I have stepped more into the role of a teacher is to also make sure that I balance, you know, my own time for my own practice, right? Because it's one thing to teach a yoga class and it's another to, you know, experience it yourself, right? You know, I still, I still get the benefit of course, you know, but it's a different sort of modality. And one of the things that has evolved in my own practice is the kind of ability and the comfort to just say, you know what, I need a couple of minutes, you know, here today, you know, to do 20 minutes of yoga and I'll just pull up my mat and I'll just do, you know, whatever feels good in my body. You know, now that I have that training and that, you know, ability to switch between modalities, I can do that. And that's kind of been how my relationship and with yoga has changed since becoming a teacher is finding those pockets of time or being more kind of in touch with myself if I'm like, you know what, I need some yoga for me right now. I just need to do this, you know, instead of just, you know, instead of teaching, right? You know, and being of service in that way. So that's what I would say. That's kind of what comes to mind. You know, and also it's interesting. I can't say that I've like gravitated toward one practice or the other. It's, you know, more passive or active, if you will, right? It's more been a mix and really getting, you know, to know myself, what do I need today, right? You know, do I need that get up and go? Do I need all the more vinyasa, you know, kind of movement or do I really need the calm and the passive? And that's been a gift because it's allowed me to be more intentional with my own well-being and my own, you know, kind of connection with myself. Okay, I had never considered that, right? I have these moments of, I guess, being really naive because if you're teaching the class, you're not necessarily practicing your training. You're focusing on training, which is different. And to be even more literal, as you're speaking, I'm thinking about last time I had a trainer in an actual gym, right? They're fixing my form. They're not working out beside me. So, light bulb moment. No, and you're not, I mean, you're not naive at all. I didn't consider this at all until I became a teacher. And I realized that my relationship with the practice was different, right? Because my goal as a teacher is to be of service to the group, right? And to be of service to the people who walk in. And so, of course, you know, that's not always gonna be tailored to what, you know, maybe I'm feeling or I want to say, it doesn't mean that I don't get the benefit, but it also means that there is, you know, still that desire in me for my own sort of time. And, but I can do that now. And so, you know, because of the training and because, you know, when I say, oh, I just need, you know, 10 minutes, I just pull my mat and I do 10 minutes and it feels great. Well, great, cause I'm sure you need those 10 minutes between practicing law, being a consultant and being a yogi. So, yes. So everyone, thank you so much for listening. I will make sure I include Dana's information in the show notes and as well in the YouTube description. And I appreciate this, Dana. This was a blast. Yeah, thank you so, so much for having me on and just a little plug, if that's okay with you. Yeah, of course. So for any lawyers who are out there, one of my most recent offerings and where Kyla and I were doing some yoga together is in my new Heart-Centered Lawyers membership. This is something that I kind of resisted creating for a little while because I wanted to find the perfect balance of yoga and wellness and sort of what the community really needed and was asking for. So if you are a lawyer out there or a law student or a law grad and this sounds interesting, feel free to reach out and come join us. Yes, contact her. I can attest that the courses are awesome, but also you include times for us to just reflect. You include journaling, exercises, you know. So it's not all woo-woo and stuff you could think about with yoga, but then there is some of that, if that's what you're looking for as well, right? Everyone's practice and experiences have to be the same. This is not just one thing or the other. So. Yeah, I appreciate that. So cool. All right, Dana, bye. Bye, thanks Kyla, take care. Bye-bye.