 Welcome to the April 3rd meeting of the Town of Arlington Redevelopment Board. I'd like to call this meeting to order. I'm Rachel Zembery, chair of the Redevelopment Board, and I'd like the other members of the board to please introduce themselves. And we also have joining us this evening the director of the Department of Planning and Community Development, Claire Ricker, and the assistant director of the Planning Department of Planning and Community Development, Kelly Linema. Thank you for joining us. All right, we will go ahead and move right into our first agenda item. Agenda item number one, the 2023 annual Town Meeting Report to Town Meeting. And I'd like to thank Kelly and Claire for preparing the memo based on the hearings and the last week's vote and discussion of the Warren articles that are before us for Spring Town Meeting. So I'd like to turn it over to Claire to discuss the process for collecting the comments of the members of the Redevelopment Board and any comments you'd like to make about the report. Sure, thank you. There aren't too many comments I'd like to make about the report. Kelly, thank you so much for putting this together for the board. You know, basically we've included the elements that are necessary in the report to Town Meeting. We've thanked Melissa obviously for her service on the board. There's a little explanation of the review process and then of course we get into the zoning Warren articles amendments themselves. We start with article 26, which is the industrialistic development standards, which is where we are going to define or at least establish the design storm criteria for stormwater management. There are notes here discussion that was had last week relative to this article and certainly would be interested in the board's comments or any changes or edits to be made to warrant article 26 and discussion. Great, so let's start with Warren article 26. I know that there were several comments that were submitted ahead of time by members of the board directly to Kelly, who has compiled them into the updated document. So I wanted to see if there were any additional comments or discussion points on article 26, starting with Ken. Gene, I have none. And I am in agreement with all of the proposed modifications to the report submitted by the other board members. Fantastic, thank you. All right, we moved to article 27, which is the solar byline industrial districts to adjust or to make really administrative addition to the bylaw and include the industrial districts under the solar bylaw. Comments were included in the discussion and incorporated into the amendment language. And then if the board has any further comments or edits, we're happy to receive those now. Great, thank you. Start with Ken. I have none on this week. Great, Gene. Well, the only one is the comment that I made that's on page six, which I think is pretty self-explanatory. And I sort of blame myself a little for not having caught this sooner. Happens every year. There's one that squeaks through. But when, you know, when Steven Kelly and I went through this, there were so many permutations that we went through. So this one, again, is one where if it's over 39 feet, they have to do some other things, and they have to provide at least one additional component. Now, so when we adopted the solar on the roof bylaw last year, that deals with a lot of these. But what happens if somebody didn't go through environmental design review, which is when solar on the roof becomes an issue? What do you do with it? And I think we inexplicably crossed this out. And it sort of seemed to me in reading it over over the weekend that it made sense to put it back in with just the clause in front of it that says for a project not subject to environmental design review. So it catches up to what was missing. So that's the one thing where I didn't know what other people would think about that. So I wanted just to leave that for people. Can I ask a question related to that? One of the things that I want would like to make sure if we do leave it in for the projects that are not subject to design environmental design review is that this still relates back to the the exemption. It does opportunities. I think that's in a section that's just not quoted in this here, correct? Well, it's it's right over here. It's the top. I miss at the top of it. The top of this. It's the exception. Yeah, it's there. So if we don't have it in it, they still they still have to choose one extra. So all this means is that they don't they don't have an opportunity to choose solar as one of the extras. It doesn't require them to choose solar. So that's why I thought maybe it needed to go back in with the little claws in front of it. And I know Steve had some other thoughts. Well, yeah, the one thing, you know, because this is a you know, in the context of do one of the following. I think solar is a good option to provide. But my my concern was making it clear that someone that a project subject to 64 wouldn't also be able to use this as the one additional thing. But I think the the suggestion Mr. Benson made to prefix it with in projects not subject to environmental design review. I think that clarifies it. So that that was the one piece. So you still have the choice of one. You have a choice of one. This just adds solar back to the choice as one of the one of the choices. In the case that you are not subject to environmental design. That makes sense. Any objections to that modification? No, Steve. No, I think that's a great one. Okay, fantastic. So just to make sure that I'm clear, instead of striking that out, it now says underlined for projects not subject to environmental design. And correct all the rest of the rest. Great. Thank you, Kelly. And thank you, Jean, for catching up. Are there any other modifications in addition to those that were already proposed, Steve? I don't have any other and Ken, you had said that you didn't have any to this item. Great. I'll turn it back over to you, Claire, for article 28. Great. So moving forward to article 28. This is truly an administrative adjustment to delete section that has been deemed by the Attorney's General's Office to be not appropriate slash illegal from the zoning bylaw. I don't know if the board has any comments. No, Jean, no comments. No comment. I don't have any other comments than what was already submitted. Fantastic. Great. Move to article 29. All right. Article 29 is a citizen petition endorsed by the board zoning bylaw amendment the downtown downtown business parking minimums to eliminate the parking minimum in the B five district, which is essentially the business district of Arlington center. Um, the location of the Russell lot and the railroad lot. Most. In fact, all of businesses in the zone are within the thousand feet. And so the board has voted to support this article. Um, if there's any discussion or any further comment. Okay. No, Jean. No, Steve. Nothing here. I don't have anything other. Fantastic. All right. 30. We're on article 31 and two family usable open space. Again, this was inserted request of James Fleming and 10 registered voters. The board endorsed. Um, this is the amendment to eliminate usable open space requirements in one and two family residential districts. Anybody has any comments on this one? Nope. And I think, um, I think the clarification here is that it's one and two family dwellings since we did add the B districts to this. Okay. Um, but other than that, I have no, um, additional modifications. I have not Steve. No, I thought it, uh, the explanation did a nice job of outlining the overlapping relations and so on. So yeah, no, nothing further here. Oh, great. I'm sorry, Rachel. Could you just, um, we added this to be districts as well. The third dot down. Okay. The third dot down. This is real yards at the X 20 feet or 20% of a lot. Then zero one two and then districts 20 feet and all be fantastic. Thank you. Um, article 31, um, allow, uh, to see if town meeting will vote to allow for animal daycare use in the industrial district. This was inserted at the request of Kristin Anderson and 10 registered voters and the board voted to endorse. Discussion comments, no comments. Jean, no comments. Steve, nothing. I did not have any either. All right. So if we could. And 32 was just the vote of no action. Correct. Sorry. The building affordable housing anywhere. Any comments on the commentary? No, Jean, no comments. Steve, nothing here. I think I'm all set as well. Great. So, um, I believe at this time, we would just need to take a vote to see if the board will, um, vote to submit the report, uh, as amended to town meeting. We did. So we made the amendment that, um, changes mentioned, and then there were several comments that were submitted. Um, and Kelly emailed those out. Um, so that's what I was sharing with you there. That's okay. Um, so there were several just wording changes with regard to the discussion, not to the actual articles themselves that came through earlier this weekend. So motion. Say a second. I'll second. We'll take a vote starting with Steve. Yes. Jean. Yes. Ken. Yes. I'm a yes as well. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you for compiling all of that. It's very well written and, um, just as a follow up to this, Kelly and I, um, will work together to create the presentation of the presentations for town meeting. Now that's just for the articles that are inserted at the request of the redevelopment board, the petitioners, um, for the individual warrant articles. So James Fleming and Christian Anderson will be preparing their own presentations for a town meeting. Um, the thought was similar to the presentations that Kelly prepared together with Jenny for, um, the last several, um, meetings in terms of the PowerPoint slides, um, would be prepared and then I would just prepare a few remarks. I think we're still waiting to hear from Greg. Kelly, is that correct as to whether or not those will be prerecorded or whether they'll be delivered live? I think they will be delivered live. This is what, um, Karen, I think you were talking about with Talia regarding the other, is that, um, they will probably be delivered live, but I'm just wondering like they want them all in one package. Just got it. The logistics are still. Yeah, the slides themselves over. Okay. And I can confirm with, um, the manager, et cetera, about whether we're going to present live or whether he's going to do recordings. He was a little, I have had this conversation with him and I think he was sort of, you know, he, I heard do what you'd like to do, but I would like to be told what to do. So I'll have a follow-up conversation. Sure. Thank you so much. Um, so these are, um, early, but, you know, probably not the first night of town meeting. I have no idea how fast this is going to run back in person. Right. So we'll, we'll need to figure that out and, um, I will actually be traveling most of that first week of, of town meeting so that's something that logistically will need to work out and if there's somebody else from the board, if they come up during that, um, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, I think the first night of town meeting is that Monday. So I'd be in town to be able to deliver the report, but if, um, if those come up Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday and I do end up going to the conference that I'm currently slated to go to, then, um, I think we'd need to identify another member of the board who could. I've done that in the past. Yes, you, you've worked, yes, with me on that. And given, before you came on the board. And I think we, yeah. That's fine. Perfect. In the past, they, they, they've always tried to pull all our articles off either to the beginning or to the end so they can keep the process growing. Well, we're also hoping that our articles go on the consent agenda. Correct. I see. I'm not taking off the consent agenda. That would be ideal. I, okay. That would be ideal, but I, the likelihood is a question. Well, we don't know. I think it's more unlikely for the resident initiated articles. But we would still need a representative of the redevelopment board available to speak if called upon to represent the board's discussion for those resident articles. So we'll, we'll work through the logistics and we still have another meeting before then. Um, but I just wanted to make sure that we are prepared for that. Great. Uh, so I believe that that closes agenda item number one. Uh, and we'll now move to agenda item number two, the Comprehensive Permit Application for Ten Sunny Side Ave, which is an affordable housing development. Which will be heard by the zoning board of appeals. My understanding is that the zoning board of appeals has requested review and input on the proposed design of and the proposal in general from the redevelopment board. So I will turn it over to Claire to introduce the project. Sure. Great. Um, I'm thrilled to present project tonight. It's not mine. Um, it's a housing corporation of Arlington at Ten Sunny Side Avenue. This is a former auto use, um, site, um, down close to AL wife Brooke, um, AL wife train, um, blue bike stations, um, except et cetera. So extremely transit, um, friendly site, um, transit accessible location. Um, this is, I believe, 44 units. Is that right? 43. 43 units. I believe they are targeting, um, uh, roughly 60% AMI tenancy on these. Um, parking below some parking, um, in commercial. I do not think we're at one space per unit. Um, for our parking, I think we're down to 30. Think about 23. 23 spaces. Correct. And that was inclusive. That would be residential and, um, commercial. It would only be for oh, pardon me, only for the residential. Um, let's see. Anything else notable about this project? We did do a interdepartment review and first look at these plans, a first pass. So, engineering has seen them, DPW has seen them, um, first responders, um, and other relevant departments. Um, and basically that is the project. They're looking to get underway. I want to say in construction, um, likely this time next year. Um, and then I think it's going to be about a 14 month build. Great. That's it. Thank you so much for the introduction. And, um, so I mean, interesting project. And this is a site that the board is familiar with. Um, we, uh, saw a very interesting and progressive project here that was proposed, gosh, just about a year ago now, I believe. And, uh, which did not go forward. Um, so it's great to see another project proposed at this site, which I think we all agreed at the time was underutilized and ripe for redevelopment. So, um, I'll start by turning it over to Ken for any, um, comments or feedback that you might have to pass on to the zoning board of appeals. Uh, well, the only thing that I, we actually looked at this before. Uh, I think when Jenny was still here, uh, she's showing us earlier versions of this or I don't think this particular. Then maybe I saw this before somewhere else and I just clicked the bell and I said, uh, it's, it's a very interesting project. I'm very supportive of this project. Uh, it's going to definitely change the area around a lot. Uh, I used to know as one thing in the middle of that site in the middle of the street there, there is a power pole with these tin cans or transformers up on the poles. Are they going to get rid of that? Um, I would highly recommend if they can get rid of that because the poles like right outside, I believe the third floor unit's window. I mean within 10 feet, if not more, not less, I mean, uh, if they can sort of relocate that up or down the street, uh, that would be one concern and the other concern is I've been, I've driven down that street at night. It's not well lit. Uh, if they can add more lights or add lighting at the lower perimeter of the parking garage where they have these sort of screen walls just to make it more a friendlier place to be. Um, I think having the lobby is pretty well lit up. I'm just concerned that if you go around with the parking structures and you go around the corner and outside, I think one, keeping this as family oriented as possible, having it feel safe where at night time it's dark and you don't know what's crawling around there. Uh, for now, I mean, I think as things change and they have it changes, you know, uh, those are my only two comments. They sort of get rid of the power pole with the transformers and adding more lighting around the perimeter. Thank you, Ken. I move over to Jean. Um, yeah, I too think it's a wonderful project for Arlington bringing needed affordable units at a good AMI level and in a good location for the reasons that were mentioned. So, um, first, they give two two different documents have different amounts which they claim are the required parking amounts which they need waived and all the documents are incorrect. Um, some some of the documents say it requires only one space per every five dwelling unit. I think that's because they misread the zoning bylaw which allows that if it's elderly housing which this is not and then another one in the list of waivers has the old unit space amounts one point one's one five per one bedroom. So, none of them have the right amount. So, for 43, it should be 43 minus four and the minus four and I know we don't all agree about what eight point two point four means but in any event no matter what we say they're entitled to a 10 percent reduction in parking for for affordable housing either for affordable housing or because they're putting in more than the minimum required in 40 b. So, at least as I look at this 43 minus four 39 are the required number of spaces. So, they're asking for as I do the math a 16 space parking space reduction. Um, bicycle parking they have much less bicycle parking than required for the residences and I think that's a mistake. I think when you have these units you're going to have people with kids. The kids are going to want to have bicycles. Some of these folks are going at least going to want to have bicycles too because they're close to the L. Wife Greenway. They're not that far from the L. Wife Greenway to get to the Minuteman bike trail. Um, and I think the trade-off should be and I'm interested to hear what my colleagues say that they should have less automobile parking spaces so they can fit in the required number of bicycle parking spaces. And I think all they would need to do is remove one or two additional automobile parking spaces to get up to the required amount of bicycle parking spaces. So, I'm interested to what other people have to say about that. Um, it wasn't really clear to me what that office in the left-hand commercial corner was going to be. Do we think that's going to be rented out? Do you know? The HCA is interested in seeking a way to make that into sort of like a pop-up space or if they could work with the town and the economic development coordinator to create some sort of a business incubator program. That would be one option that they're interested in. They're also like, they don't have a tenant for that space right now so they're just trying to see like what the overall options are because they have that commercial office space here then they have a meeting in an office space over in the front. And so I think that precise configuration isn't necessarily decided on. And so that's where it's right now they're kind of in flux as to whether that would be that office space would be for the HCA or if it would be combined with the commercial office to be like some sort of retail space or other yeah I'm not opposed to you know a retail space or a coffee shop or something like that. I mean they've in some of this I think it looked to me like they were saying that this is a mixed-use building because of that space especially when they talk about what the required FAOR is things like that so I think it would need to be meaningful space. Yeah meaningful space. I don't know if that's large enough to be a meaningful space maybe it is for a small coffee shop or something like that. We'll wait there for Rachel on that but I think it's worth a discussion about that too. I think it's a nice idea to put that there to live in the streetscape a little bit but I think we need to understand that. It has almost no open space. I'm considering this is a building with lots of kids stuff like that except for the second floor is a very small space but I think the compensation is it's like a block away from the L.Y. Greenway and there's a playground nearby and you know there's a nice walking path and it's green so I'm not really that concerned about the reduction in the open space because of the amenity so close by that they could get to very easily. They didn't say whether they were going to meet the street tree requirements under the bylaw and I think it would be important that we suggest it because they have you know two yeah I think it'll be good if they're going to meet the street tree requirements. The other thing I'm interested in what Kim and Rachel have to say about this it's like the plainest facade and I'm just you know and one of and maybe that's the way it has to be but it's just sort of do we really have to have affordable housing that you know has sort of I don't know one of you can tell me what to call it but seems to have just a blank not very nice sort of ugly window facade or something to be done with it to make it look a little better that way I needed to our other experts to sort of chime in on that part of it and yeah I think I think I'll stop there. Great thank you Gene, Steve. I'll start I'd like to start with a question. There are several sheets in the arches and the floor plans. We're near stairwell like for example A105. Around stairwell A there are two rooms in a little space that are marked BOH. Right back of house is what that typically stands for. Oh okay. So it might be janitorial space. Okay. Something else but there are a lot of them. Okay. Yes. I was just I was just curious. Yeah in terms of overall I'm supportive of the project. I think it's it will be a big improvement especially considering the current state of the site. I'm very happy to see that they are planning to work with the town to put sidewalks on that side of the street. I think that'll be a benefit. And I also you know I think the roof deck with the plantings is also you know a rather attractive feature. Two things that I noticed in reviewing the materials. One I think is not might just be a point of consideration. I live on the street and you know at elevation the rear of my house is at elevation three and I can hit water with a hole digger. Now there at it looks like they're at about a first floor elevation of about 15 and the bottom of their BMPs is about nine and a half. So I mean the question I was asking is is the high water table going to be a problem. It looks I'm guessing not but it may be worth mentioning this is just something to pay attention to. The other thing that I was is their transportation demand or the traffic impact study. The build I was expecting to see some sort of a mode adjustment because it is a fairly transit friendly area and I did not see one in the transportation impact plant. This is I mean they I don't know if this was an oversight or a conscious decision. I think that's something that worth you know possibly flagging is for follow-up. That's all I have. Great thank you very much. So I have a couple of comments that I'd like to put forth for the ZBA during their overview. I agree with my colleagues. I think it's a it's a well thought out proposal and I appreciate the composition of an affordable housing development in this particular location. I think that the massing is well considered which really serves to facing sunnyside at least break down some of the scale of the building especially with the roof deck amenity above the entrance to the to the parking garage. One of the challenges that I have to the point that I think Jean was making is specifically with the rear of the building. That is a really challenging facade. It is completely flat with no articulation whatsoever. I think you can see that on sheet A3.01 so it's the page 21 in the document. I mean that's that's really brutal and I would highly encourage the architect and the ZBA to look at some sort of articulation to the facade whether it's through relief of of the facade in terms of the push and pull there whether it's through some sort of applied element whether it's like they did on the front of the facade. A change in the the facade material so the vertical paneling versus some more monolithic elements. I also was surprised. I like that they this is a very light building as opposed to some of the heavier structures that we've seen and I I did think it was really interesting the use of of color in a few of the areas. I believe that this is at the stair locations but I was hoping that that relief might be something that they that they take advantage of more often. I think that there's to Gene's point again I think it's an interesting element that's been introduced and it would be nice to see that element or a complementary element added in to again break down this monolithic the monolithic element that we're seeing in front of us and it could be that you know the where they have the horizontal the horizontal cladding versus the versus the vertical perhaps there is more you can see that there's a slight color change there you know perhaps there is more of a contrast which would go a little bit further again if it's just the coloration as opposed to materiality. I think looking at I wouldn't add much heavier of a cornice but you know perhaps looking at again the the depth of that to add just a little bit more depth to the building or to the a little bit more of a shadow line along the the top would be interesting and then looking at the ground floor and again I was trying to determine much like Gene was what's actually going into that commercial slash office space because it's not really presenting itself as a public space in the way that it is designed from a facade perspective so it would be helpful to see what they were envisioning in terms of does this become a sign banned above that that entrance it's not particularly differentiated from the lobby entrance so whether or not it's through as I think Kim suggested building lighting features that are that mark the entry to the to the building lobby and you know the the numbering for or the naming of the building and the signage for the entry to the lobby versus the entrance to the to the commercial space I'd love to see those treated a little bit differently as opposed to the way that they are now I also think that it's a missed opportunity to not make that a larger space 600 square feet is a challenging space to program and it would be helpful to know what their thought is with that because I would think that at a minimum I'd want to see something at the possible a thousand square feet in order to really make that a usable commercial and viable rentable commercial space again if it's being thought of as a pop-up space that may be a sufficient amount of space but not knowing what the intent is if it's meant to be leased in income generating for the AHA I think that they would be doing themselves a disservice by not increasing the whisper footage and I think there's an opportunity to do that there's a lot of space within that lobby if they were to look at reconfiguring that to increase that that commercial space and the other item if I just go back to the facade for a moment that I was trying to understand a little bit more was the materiality for this the two screens that are proposed and the one above the one that is on the second floor that is the guardrail for in the balcony for the for the green space looks to be like chain link which I I think is an absolute mistake and I'd like to see that either reflect some of the horizontal and vertical elements that they are incorporating in the facade or to include glass but I I think chain link is the it's the wrong material there it's very industrial and then I'm also not a fan of the screening that they are including which also to me reads like chain link and in between the the arch or excuse me the brick bays of the the garage so I think I'd like to understand that material more and would encourage them to look at a screening element that perhaps has a little bit more opacity and visibility to what's happening inside but at the same time you know again does not is not reminiscent of chain link and the only comment I'd have is for them other comments I would have for them is to be able to speak to the particular type of rolling grill that they are using for the garage door this is something that I know in a lot of the mixed use properties that we've been reviewing is to understand because those can be very noisy there are different styles you know whether it's the you know with with the the metal there's the the the metal track screw track yes exactly versus other times screw right so again I would just like to keep their their neighbors in mind and think about the type of specification for that for the screen door or excuse me the the rolling door for the garage those are my comments can anything I'd like to add on to Jean's comment about blindness I at first I didn't want to say it because I figured they're trying their best to get the most amount of units in here and I didn't want to burn them with too much so that you know cost another unit you know I don't I didn't want that but I think Rachel's correct we just at least took another more aggressive approach to introducing color to these these boxes that are set back or sliding back and forth it can make it more dramatic just by changing the color and give you two sample two examples of this both of them are in Cambridge 603 came 603 it's right on the rotary by airway the nice short car you know the shopping centers right there and fresh fresh fresh white is like like a blue cube up top high concrete 603 concrete or I think 42 Bay State Road tucked behind Danny Danny he feels they just have these blocks but I really like the colors of those buildings how these and the plate with the massing they take a look at that that could be something that can liven us up a little bit without adding too much cost and I highly work I highly agree with you about the shilling fence I didn't catch that it's difficult to tell on the rendering again I didn't see when I was reviewing these any specific specifications but that that's how it's reading in there in their renderings that's me that way yes and that would be a shame if they put shilling fence there Jean any additional thoughts yeah I actually don't know what to do about this information so there was a release on the site that was reported to DMP about 20 years ago and they did some sort of outcome to it but at that time it was still the auto body shopping and I think that it's worth bringing it to the attention of the ZBA and I've been looking at there's something there about if they're going to move soil around and they need to do some other things about it and I think what's happened in places at times is that there's no site investigation that's completely done and we can't force that but I think it's worth bringing to the ZBA's attention what was there before there was a release that was apparently cleaned up a long time ago and this place continued to be used afterward and they may be interested in finding out whether it's the appropriate place to put a residence without doing some more site investigation I know that might make it very expensive and I killed a project but I think it's worth bringing it to the attention are they seeking our loan on this yes then the bank will back in that's what I would that's what I was thinking too the bank will make them do it but I think it's worth bringing to the ZBA's attention great yeah that was the other thing thank you jean Steve any additional comments yeah um your um madam chair your comments about the screening reminded me of something I was and looking at the just the the slide that's up um you know there are I like the window and I think there's and I like the windows I I kind of like to see them here here and here as well um to just make it less of a solid wall so yeah finish ration on the first floor that's chain link fence you're pointing to right so in lieu of the into the parking garage in lieu of the chain link fence yeah so suggesting right um so it's so on sheet a one zero one like there's a garage door and they have you know there's there's kind of like flat walls on either side of it so something something there and basically yeah so here something to break up break it up sort of here and here so more like a punched opening as opposed to a full screen exactly that's fair I think that that's not unlike um the way that the proposed 40 the development on mass as was treating there there's was a little bit more there was more of a a stem wall and so it read more like a punched opening than yeah than a full screen any other feedback for the zba I have a question for the board and that is this we've talked a little bit about more of my parking we've talked a little bit about let's make sure we have enough space for units and parking different things open space what if we remove the token commercial space that they've included on the first floor is it something that the board considers paramount to this project to deliver at least some commercial square footage I think a follow-up question would be would this be better serve as a programmable space for tenants either a phone room or computer room whatever given you know what we've learned recently from the pandemic and remote work spaces and different things like that maybe I'll start off by saying I think if it's not a if they can't make this a viable leasable commercial space I think that in a building like this having a rentable programmable community space for the residents is something that would be a wonderful amenity and that's something that often is used for celebrations family gatherings etc those can be hard to come by in town and I think that it could be an interesting space for that my only concern is that that is that is a a nice corner of that space and for it to be unutilized for the majority of the the time that that's what it is and they don't have the I would be concerned if they don't have the ability the AHA to program that and provide programming within that space for the tenants in addition to allowing them to rent it from time to time if they didn't have that means I would much prefer it as a commercial space I think it doesn't have to be a commercial space as I see it of course then they'd have to ask for some waivers from the ZDA I think on the second floor there is a community room yeah right before you get into the balcony yeah there is a community room there already I don't know if that is sufficient to meet what you were talking about 727 I mean that's bigger than the commercial space right so so they have some of that already with a bathroom attached to it so I thought that was a nice thing for them to do clearly they could have another space on the first floor or I mean to be quite honest while we're going in that space one of the challenges with having a community space on the second floor is now they have to bring people up into right if if that's going to be again usable for the residents with family friends outside where I've seen it's most successful in these types of mixed use buildings is if it's within an amenity space before you get into the individual units so if there are areas for example the meeting the office space etc if that is better served by relocating to the the upper floor and perhaps the bike parking move to that space so that again you can enlarge the commercial slash office space that would personally be my reference Steve thoughts yeah I was looking at the floor plan for the first floor plan and you know thinking well if how would how would you make it bigger and it's you'd have to you'd have to shift things a lot of things around in order to do that I agree that 600 square feet is small and something larger would be you know would would be more viable you know I don't have any specific suggestions on how to get there can you have a preference I've been thinking hard that's a good very good question brought up and I think they did the best they can with that layout I can't seem relocating the trash room or the bike parking and moving switching with the meeting room and office so that you can have the ability to make it bigger because I think not having a trash room on the front door right there is not good or having a bike room you can put the bike room you could access that from the but then it's but then hold this whole facade here now this is a bike room as opposed to having some sort of activity yeah I see the point but it's already underneath that I just don't see what would go in there right now there's a commercial space over here there's a garage right here and I believe there's another garage right across the street and I think that's should the question I asked before what are who are they planning what leads this to yeah that's what do you know what I mean and I'm trying to think hard now what can we what can you get out of that and going back to your question if we can't get anything out of it can we just put it back in and and you guys are right even putting a small daycare center in there won't even work it's too small there's no I mean there is a place there is a daycare center right like kitty corner from here there used to be a car dealership I don't know it's a I have no answer for that and I I have no you're good come back I just all I can say is a good question I'll leave it at that I appreciate the discussion I think the ZBA might as well and yes an HCA thank you yeah I think I think part of the reason I got to this point was because they had really wanted to explore going through the redevelopment board before permitting instead of a 40B the restrictions on an apartment building exclusively are very severe yeah yes before the redevelopment you cannot no right because of the open space and setback requirements and so then they started exploring mixed use and I think they kind of ended up with continuing to think about mixed use and then part of it thinking about like well what if they expanded some of their office space so that maybe the other option of what ends up happening is that they just have additional office space or satellite space within this building but it's kind of the origins of how they got there and now they're with this I mean it's interesting since they have no obviously there is green space nearby but if this becomes some sort of a space where I whether it's a I don't necessarily say a gym but you know again someplace that people can be active and use the space and activate the space regularly to me that that could be interesting to them to explore with a little little small dance studio or yoga place maybe yeah sure but again I think that's part of the AHA needs to think about what they can program and whether that this is part of their pro I don't know whether that's part of their pro forma whether they've worked that into this either in terms of having any of that leasable income I mean they did a great job with the gosh what was the was that on Broadway the other one 70 right with that commercial space they did a wonderful job with that commercial space so I mean I think that it is possible to find a wonderful appropriate use for this commercial space but we're really interested in what they're thinking about so what I'll do is I'll take these comments and put them into a memo I can send them back to you all just for one final review before they get sent off to the ZBI and that just out of curiosity since what I mean one of the major uses of the ground floor is parking in what would be in terms of prioritization would which is more valuable park tenant parking or commercial space I mean what what I say value value it's not not not dollar but which would we think is more important commercial space I think I think so too because we used to talk to Pam when she built her housing parking most of her parking spaces out back were empty and so I don't I don't think they're going to be parking challenged in this project here and I kind of like jeans out there about taking away some of the parking and putting more bike parking there and or even I would call it stroll apart well I've been in a lot of contexts when you go down in the garage near the elevators you see these strews of strollers all over the place and you know they don't take them in the elevator just even down there so I I just think you know dedicating a few parking spaces and the other entry there you have bike parking there already you just take the next two over and you know some strollers so it'll make it easier for families to transport food and the kids and you leave it down there and go back inside and take the other air up I don't know I'm inclined to agree I would like to you know give them the trade off I would favor more commercial and less parking but yeah thank you thank you for bringing this thank you thank you for your thoughts absolutely all right so we'll now move to agenda item number three 2023 special town meeting outreach and engagement and I'll turn it back over to Claire all right thank you so we are putting the bulk of our work this year zoning articles that the board had asked staff to pursue especially as they relate to the business districts we did have at least one business district amendment proposed by a community member but that's not you know wasn't necessarily generated although supported by the board and so really what we're looking for we had talked about looking at open space and business districts rear yard setbacks the step back requirements I don't know if we did reduced height buffer area I know we had talked about no single story uses I think what we're looking to talk about this evening though is how the board would like staff to handle the communications and outreach about these economic development articles and honestly what would have us end up with some really I think some bigger changes to our business district but obviously I think well you know well thought out and much needed so we're looking to spur a discussion that to the public in the fall what the board might like to see happen all right let's jump into the discussion Ken would you like to share your thoughts first well I want to start off with a question and this is about commercial space isn't it you're mad because I asked that one no okay no no no you know the outdoor dining on the sidewalks yes that's something that select board votes on every year to grant correct could we maybe talk about maybe introducing that into a zoning article where it could be something that is available in certain areas for some of the businesses to have available to them so it's no longer up to the whim of select board I'm not saying it's a whim but you don't you're not relying on a select board to have the opportunity to dine out I think sort of dining out and having a kind of festive streetscape is what we want to strive for and if a restaurant owner knows that that's available to them as opposed to say it can be granted year to year but they can plan on that it could be a business plan that they might embrace to take more of a chance on with us I just cleaned that up to debate here that's all yeah I think it's an interesting comment obviously when Tate was recently in front of us it was it's a messy line between I think what the redevelopment board would like to be able to Kim's point to coordinate together with the applicants with regard to activation of the street and ensuring that there isn't a thought and but frankly I'd like to review the design of some of those because yeah it's yes some of them really nice it's a variety of quality in this town of the outdoor dining and so I think that if there is an opportunity for us to work together on an article with the select board by which we transfer some of the oversight of that so that it is reviewed together with the project I think that is an excellent suggestion and something that I think you know would be a a good conversation together with the select board in terms of what they feel they need to retain oversight of in terms of how much if at all they need to retain oversight of that particular piece of a project versus again looking to bring that into the overall design and quality of the use as you're suggesting well I would even think in terms of the town I mean does the town want those and if they do want those where they want them and what type they want and then I would say I wouldn't necessarily say if you want that you have to bring it up to ARB for review I would say we make it as a right with certain guidelines and so forth that they are eligible for so I'm going to say something a little snarky please go ahead well you know how the town manager put in some warrant articles without notice to us yes we could put in a warrant article you know the town must allow this on public streets I'm not saying we should really do this because we are considerate body because we're a considerate body but I think it's worth raising with the select board I don't think zoning extends to the public street so I don't think we can do it on a public street but what what's interesting to think about though if you think about the building that we approve recently 191 to 200 mass amp where they have that little space if we could find some way to incentivize that when we're doing making the changes to the business zoning rules so that somebody would say sure I'm going to pull my building back so much because I'd like to attract a restaurant you know and I'd like to do that I was I was in New York recently and they now have all of these new zoning rules about you know parks in the buildings and things like that and what I thought was and we're not New York right but what I thought was really interesting is they had tables and and chairs and concession stands and things like that so it just makes me think maybe there's something we can do to incentivize pulling back the building from the building line so that they can do things like the one at 191 to 200 massive and we should probably also talk to the select board about you know what they can do to make it more attractive on their end also but I think it's a great idea it's just how do we how do we make that happen but you didn't answer their questions which is so good I was going to finish discussing this yes and then we'll get back to the actual question that Claire asked but thanks for throwing us a herb balder that around here okay it's an interesting discussion all right Steve I was just going to answer Claire's question okay please jump in I think we do have this project to establish the design standards you're going to yes take another look at design standards and I think thinking about the public realm and some things that aren't necessarily I think there's a way that we don't want to overly complicate the zoning or necessarily have to get a two-thirds forward of time meeting and I think if we think about some of these things from a design standard perspective it does give the board more flexibility to think about it on a project by project basis instead of like establishing specific dimensional guidelines that may end up becoming a hurdle for various projects going forward so I think we could think about having the curb be an element of design guidelines and maybe even then broker that conversation with the select board about all right let's think about some design standards for how these workloads should look and maybe the select board has the jurisdiction for the space which is like that it just that the block on the sidewalk or the board the parking that you use but then the ARB has more jurisdiction over the look and feel and what it means to be walking through we're using the space we tried to do that a little bit with Allie when these first came up but I I agree I think the design standards and quite frankly the master plan the update to the master plan would be an appropriate place for us to address some of these as well the the point about an ARB select board permit or some sort of design standard or any kind of standard is well taken what is happening you know in real time right now in the office is that businesses are coming in looking to renew their permits you know they're putting their stuff out maybe it's in the same place as last year usually not and so we are going back out as they as they're trying to you know I'm thinking specifically of Nero Donut Villa and then Ty Ty Moon Ty Moon are all going to be in one line we have this laid out beautifully Nero went first and totally something that isn't going to work for the other two so rather than create more work for folks let them know what's expected Nero came in they got their their permit you know all on the up and up but we had no idea you know that it was happening that they were putting the things out and et cetera so I think that you know either whether it's you know stricter design guidelines or some sort of review by the ARB especially if it's a funky situation like those three in a row the point is really well taken I do think we need to to get a little more oversight over that thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you one more we want to go thank you hold on that now now that now that that we've deferred I'd like to respond to Cali what I think one of the things I'd like to see us as a municipality think about is curb management because that is I mean it is it's the inner it's the interface between the public and the private realm and the way it's you programmed is incredibly important not I mean yeah it's not yes the question of you know vehicle parking versus table seating but there there are a whole lot of other things like we you know we should probably do something more with like loading areas especially for deliveries and that sort of thing as a long-term thing you know as a long-term objective I would like to see us do something serious with curb management okay back to what you were saying okay then we're going to move on to Claire's actual question yes okay but I don't remember anymore I'll remind you okay I was going to that is public way right so we can't really permit but isn't like what's in front of Nero and Dona Villa Dona Villa and Chinese was it time time moon that's public right that's a square that we designed we'll be doing it that's the public right away yeah what that's the public right away yeah and that's public I mean it's not so we designed that space for outdoor seating or whatever that's what I'm so can we do this with other parts of the business district and I'm not just talking about public seating but I'm talking having like maybe dog areas at the corners or intersections where you have we've got drainage gardens you know where instead of having the water go right into the sewer drain you have a garden there we have a few in town yes and those those are great but it stopped right I think that's a great idea and I get off talking okay I think so I think that we should absolutely though put that in in our you know goals of something that once we get through some of these zoning topics that we do need to talk about how we would like to start introducing those to the public and and moving forward so that we're ready for town meeting in the in the fall that we then look at some of those nodes of opportunity okay right oh I will so I'll just if I may I'm sorry about please I'll I'll go back to my original question so I'm I'm looking at the memo from January 19th which was updated on the 23rd one two three four nine we had nine proposed amendments directly related to business districts open space rear yard setbacks step back requirements the reduced height buffer which is no more single story buildings corner lot height minimums the Arlington Heights business district which I think was you know we were contemplating a map change for that and then the ARB jurisdiction over the industrial districts which I think is a is an outstanding question as well so this will be going in front of a special town meeting along with MBTA communities and obviously we've launched into a massive campaign around MBTA communities and continue to you know obviously that is a priority but also I think a priority is to move our economic development goals forward looking at you know these original thoughts that we had is this something we can want to continue to advocate for in the fall or the changes we want to make we can definitely you know commercial design guidelines is on my list in terms of projects that I know that the board wanted to get done in the next year or so and obviously the ARB select board permit as it relates to outdoor dining is something that is you know absolutely we need to take a look at but what would the board recommend here I think in terms of how we might go about either an education campaign or getting the word out about some of these economic development ones articles that we've talked about Jane would you like to start Oh sure now that I'm reminded of the question you want to speak again so it's get back to you in a way it's the opposite of MBTA communities where it's like where are we going to put this this is like here are the things that we think are necessary so I think one of the things that we've talked about in the past is actually having some diagrams and things like that so people get comfortable with what the change might look like right so that's clearly one piece of it second is we've said a lot of these things we think are necessary because it's too hard to do economic development now in town with the small lots and with with these sorts of things so we would really need somebody to give us some actual examples of here's what it is now on these lots and here's what it would be if these sorts of things happened and then some you know some economic analysis of some of the advantages in terms of of tax rates and you know things like that because this should generate some more commercial tax revenue for the town so I think those are the types of things that we would want to put together as sort of a starting point for those things and then in terms of outreach I think it might be helpful to start with some conversations with the business community since we are ostensibly doing this for that which is like you know the chamber the real estate folks who represent a lot of people like that to get their input so we're not sort of doing this blind but they may have some excellent suggestions about this too and if they think it's a good idea I think they can help us think through how to present this to the public and then I think at that point we need to get back together and say now that we've done this now that we've done that how do we roll this out how do we roll it out like how do we roll it out at least those are my initial thoughts interesting okay thank you Jean I'll just say just to follow up with that before Steve mm-hmm which is that I I've had I had some initial conversations with Beth Lock who from the chamber who was very interested in learning more about what we've proposed in terms of supporting businesses and business development in town and was interested in how the the chamber which is really focused on reinvigorating their activity within the town how we might be able how they might be able to support some of the the policies I read about them for as well that's awesome Steve so yeah there's in terms of outreach I would you know going sort of like Mr. Benson I I would suggest was starting with the landlords and members of the business community because that's kind of like we're I don't know if the buck starts with them or stops with them but you know it's an important group to get on board and it would certainly you know not work to our advantage if these ideas came out and we found out that a number of landlords or businesses opposed them so I'd I would ideally I'd like to you know think of this as trying to work in partnership with some of some of the landlords of businesses in the chamber of commerce and I think once we have a story that works for them it will make it easier to sell we'll have something more compelling to go to the public with we wanted to sell our itself we don't want to sell it yeah we the idea make a distinction yeah I agree with Jean what Jean said I think we should start with the realtors and brokers and see what is what are people asking for and I mean they're they're the first ones online to say hey I have a space available and they're trying to rent it lease it and they have all these comments back to them all the people say oh I'm not interested or it's too complicated to get this thing permitted in this town there's not enough parking there's not enough foot traffic I don't know anything along those lines there you know I mean I've I've talked to several restaurant owners and the first thing they always ask me is foot traffic parking and how many people live there and they'll say by how what's the density of people living there is what's what support their business that's what they're looking for and so we're going to start understanding that better and I agree with you I think I think we've talked about this before I call them vignettes a little renderings off a sketch up and say this is a architects or or vision of what this area could look like it will we're trying to get at you know you know walkable streets maybe some you know your blade science coming out and focusing the streets there green trees bushes whatever you know why sidewalks well lit with you know one or two stories above it or whatever and then going back to that sketch up model showing the density of what it could be what we have right now and what we plop on there they can make that happen so they can actually see it and visualize it and that takes time and money I mean the renderings are not going to be cheap and then you work in somebody to do that vision is not going to be easy so if I can just add to that I think what kin is saying is absolutely right I think that the visualization of the possible is is foundational to having any of these meetings even with the with the chamber you know in some ways and I think being able to go through those nine different points and identify which can be explained through a diagram and which actually need again this visualization piece because I don't think that all of them do but I think that the one that is them going to be the most challenging for people to again visualize the possible and why it's important to make as drastic a change as we are suggesting is the Arlington Heights business district overlay yeah I think that helping people understand these are our limitations this is why it's so hard for somebody to put together multiple parcels of you know differing zoning and wildly restrictive wildly restrictive compounding zoning regulations when this overlay district would remove those barriers and allow you to create X is something that would be really compelling but we have to be able to tell that story in order to have people believe in it and I think we who live in this world can visualize but it's zoning is challenging for people to understand and so being able to provide that is is really important and I think the other thing that we're going to be needing to contend with and it's something I heard in the MBTA communities working session just as one of many many examples Mike Champa and I were actually in the same small breakout room and we heard from two different people well there's lots of available space in town we both had to say hold on hold on there is vacant space that is unmaintained un unproductive and unusable of the newer or more recently renovated vacant space there was very little and there is a big difference between vacant commercial space that has been invested in and is ready for a and that that has been adequately prepared for a future tenant versus that which requires so much remediation and investment that it is almost unusable for the majority of tenants who would come into town so I think being able to tell that story because that is something that again just in one meeting we heard multiple times and when it was explained people understood but there is a general misconception that I think we will need to contend with filling those 600 square foot storefront pieces exactly right right good example is at the heights pick a spot in the heights no but the old post office absolutely that's just a long narrow straight way way back there who's going to rent that space with this little small post office but I think understanding what friends and yes just wants to exactly super helpful to understand and that's where I think they good diagram perfect for that diagram will be perfect for that but I again I think when you start looking at what happens when you have parcel after parcel that changes zoning and how challenging that is versus an overlay which allows you to to see something in a larger in a larger and more comprehensive point of view is that that's really impactful so what are budgetary opportunities here I believe that we had last time meeting there was money put aside for these commercial the commercial design guidelines that is correct to me this is a precursor to being able to do commercial design guidelines so I don't know if that funding is it all available for this or if there is any additional I will ask funding that could be made available for this type of visualization and I think economic analysis which somebody Jane you mentioned which is really important as well just sort of building on what Rachel said it would be interesting to take a block in the heights or somewhere else and say if the overlay happened here are the opportunities that would exist that don't currently exist as a way to show the before and after possibilities I think it might be interesting too for us to go back into the Arlington Heights neighborhood action plan improvement whatever those words put together or because there was some of that work being done so I think and I think that was done with an outside consultant if I remember correctly MAPC so I think I think at a future meeting perhaps you know if we all go back through that and see if there's anything worth mining from that that might be a starting point for us to to talk about where would you get that what's that where will we get that I'll set that okay it's on it is on the it's on the full burden but it's on the looks like okay no just email me okay and I will say that there is a committee that hasn't met in a year but there is a committee for that implementation plan who is very active and very engaged and they might be people to pull into this as well right so it sounds like we may pin down the narrative and do some initial stakeholder reach out outreach to commercial folks I love the idea of reaching back after the Arlington Heights group as well you know pin down a narrative try to start telling the story with visuals I can look into I mean commercial design guidelines this absolutely I think would apply to our you know commercial zoning changes mm-hmm I don't see a lot of issues with that and then look into what kind of materials we'd like to produce visualizations etc and go from there perhaps come back in front of the ARB with strategy presentation I'm not I might have to put that out to a little bit earlier in May I think but I think that's fine okay great and we're targeting October yes for special time meeting okay so we'd have to have this in place in September right right correct we're gonna run out time fast some of the stuff will take time but I again I think it's I think it's the plan of what is a diagram what is a visualization what needs an economic analysis because some of those don't right some of those are pretty straight forward I don't know maybe I mean take the you can no longer have one-story buildings we need to know that people are going to be willing to redevelop taller buildings and we need to know the economics of that and you know the economic fallout of benefit of doing it that way because I think you're right about the Arlington Heights but we what we propose goes way beyond oh sure what they did yeah yeah right so we have to the dimensional some of the a lot of the dimensional things go way beyond Arlington Heights and nice if there was some way to package those I was just more responding to Ken's suggestion that we take a block at Arlington Heights right because I think some of that work has in fact been done and I would hate not to utilize some of the good work that's already been done right and maybe take a block somewhere else now did I read correctly that the block that had Tango Resturant on was sold that block of buildings sold you don't know no there's a couple buildings south of there that are that have been on the market but Tango that block was not sold to the state ownership huh okay because because that's going to get redeveloped it's one story high you know some empty spaces it would be interesting to in addition to Arlington Heights maybe see that as another model you know what could be done if we made some of these changes would it be helpful perhaps if the four of us went back through the nine proposed articles and um each thought through what are what do we what do I feel are the visualization or compelling analysis that needs to be prepared for each of these in order for us to feel like we are able to make the case for why and help people understand the why and then sent that to Kelly and Claire to compile to just see you know again if we're all on the same page so that again we don't if we see if we all are in agreement that something just needs a diagram but something needs something more then we sooner rather than later it would be helpful I'm sure to to know that so that we can start planning ahead so maybe that's something within the next before our next meeting we can take a look at those get some thoughts off is our next meeting on Thursday no it's in two weeks oh so we don't have that no it was still on my it was on mine too six so we don't have another one no we do not we do not I believe that the 24th is our next meeting which will be a seven to seven 15 and now the meeting talk about right we'll get them out of new business yeah also send out be it prepared some memos back when we thought these were going to be for spring yep yes so I'll send that out I'll send that link to the I need to make it's name with that great great any other related economic development studies that I know we'll just make sure you all have that perfect does that give you enough to that's great yes I appreciate the conversation thank you absolutely each okay let's see so that concludes agenda item number three agenda nine agenda item number four is open forum but we do not have anyone from the public who has joined us this evening so I will close that agenda item and move to agenda item number five which is new business so I'd love to chat about the timing for our next meeting which is the 24th which is before town meeting and logistics for that so town meeting is being held in town hall or at the high school in town hall is what I've heard in town hall okay so in theory we could meet here or we could meet in the annex and then I'll pop over to town meeting as soon as we adjourn so we can meet seven to seven 45 let's do that well when make our way over if it's town meeting don't we all go or we don't have to go you don't have to in the past I have actually never been to an in-person town meeting oh you'll love it we all are seated at a table on the edge and like if I had a door I'm just supposed to be there for the for the one at the same in 2020 but um my understanding of the way things used to be and I will preface this by saying that the my least favorite thing is but that's the way we always did it but just my understanding of the way that things used to be done is that the redevelopment board all came to the first night and then because we always our articles are always up the first night right right right and then once our articles were done we were options to stay or leave we all left but you but you left out the best part where everybody gets up and sings I don't know any of these things we did not do that Doreen the best part is the bake sale and oh yeah the table is in a prime position to get to the bake sale so I think you know once we have more information from the town moderator as to the order in which he is planning on taking the articles and whether anything will be taken out of order and how many we have on the consent agenda this year because we'll need to actually set up a time what we've done in the past is that Sandy Doug Hime myself and I think Eric is the new select board chair and you need to set up a meeting where we can with the town moderator go through what we would like to propose to be on the consent agenda again that's how we've done it in the past and she likes using that phrase tonight we do not have to do it that way but if that's something we need to get on the calendar we should probably try and get that calendar that sooner rather than later that being said our 20 meeting on the 24th would need to be 7 to 745 p.m. in order to make that work is that a challenge anyone no and also we should have let's see what else we have on that agenda the only other thing on that agenda is so okay two items that need to be a recommendation yep one was waiting fees for circumstances under which the board may wish to wait in fees yep and then the second was in solar so because the internal we wanted a solar panel we wanted on the along in the environmental in the permit application for solar right it's what we initially had proposed to put in the by-law and Jenny said don't put it in there just put it in the rules and regulations and the rules and regulations after it and we can meet over there so it's easy to sneak over to town hall right in the nx yeah right in the nx yep second floor that old I know this isn't a big distance if we can't get that one no but okay anything else that you need from this board we should probably update on the select board tonight is hearing is reviewing the memo that we put together that we've reviewed and voted on as a board for article 14 related to the strategic growth article and the request for an mou for the changing of oversight of the town held redevelopment board held town properties right for an article 21 22 and 23 are the three product the three properties that we discussed in our meeting last week transferring those properties back to the town Doug Hyman I have draft it I've gone through a few initial drafts of an mou I spoke with Sandy for about it and I have a cover memo related as well and so we'll continue to negotiate the mou it is part of the redevelopment board's vote to support those warrant articles you know on the condition of the mou and that is how it will go in front of the select board this evening with the note you know that I'm working with the town town council to develop an mou to mutual satisfaction of all parties so that's where that stands tonight and last time we didn't know if Mr. Diggins was going to withdraw his warrant article we did not we did not now we did um as of Friday it was on sales ah did he get reelected yes he did he did he did he did as did Diane so uh more to come on that after this evening yes more to come after this evening any other new business I do have a little new business one is that uh we we I think we spoke about it a little casually last week but I have identified a candidate for the board I think you know just speaking with each with each of you sort of individually you know there was some thought about maybe sort of expanding the candidate pool potentially to someone in construction or a planner and that a few of you might reach out to other contacts that you have I think I'm interested in knowing you know we've you know I've I've approached for four or five people at this point do you would you like to continue to look for someone with the you know skill set that we've discussed planner potentially someone in construction or a unit you know maybe a a housing developer or somewhere along those lines or should we you know make a decision to offer it to to someone who's indicated interest previously but may not necessarily have the skill set that we're looking for right now thoughts Gene I I had spoken to a person who I thought would have been excellent and he said he's too busy but I sent you an email about another person okay and I didn't mention that person's name but I gave you a little bit about the background and I said should I reach out to these two oh you want me to yes please especially if it's someone who it was not necessarily an architect is the person is not has a NCP from MIT and does transportation planning be interesting we can't fault that person for that but that would be great I'll see if the person is interested I have not broached it with the person I appreciate that that's thank you Gene see great I think I think expanding is is fine and now that the election is over I can think more about I'll try to reach out to a few people you running no I was helping with campaigns oh okay I was doing election stuff so I have one more thing and it's it's just new business and we can certainly pick it up later I know we're we're very very busy and we've talked about a lot of action items we have to do tonight but one of the things we talked about in our last meeting was an urban renewal plan and how we are currently operating without one and you know I think in our conversation about the industrial zones we thought well maybe that might be an interesting area to focus on either for urban renewal or even for just some master planning so it's something I have been thinking about I've been I reviewed some of the plans that I worked on in Lowell which always had an active urban renewal plan of one kind or the other and if the board is interested in starting to take a look at something like that it's certainly information that was to provide I took it upon myself to consider industrial that we don't have to I entered a brutal plan could be you know really any area or any focus but this seemed one like one that had come up one that we were interested in talking about in terms of preservation of land use and I you know other topics as they relate to renewal so if you'd like us to start taking a look at that we're happy to do so go hadn't you suggested to do some places there were I mean we had discussed this you know some possible sites with Jenny right those were related I think to blighted yeah blighted properties throughout town I think we had identified five potential properties that fell into that category but those were different though that was those are properties that were what you call they weren't buildable lots that's why I thought they were some were some weren't I am happy to see that one of those properties is currently under construction and getting renovated that's wonderful but you know there are some others that are still in the same shape that they were previously so this is a picture of the industrial urban renewal area in bull that's 108 acres I can't imagine ours would be this large that's Arlington any support or hi though we always used to call it for this is one way to do it I think you know there are a lot of the urban renewal activity I've seen that's been done in Arlington is a really small scale one of the benefits of putting together a plan like this is that you look at parcel aggregation for larger parcels so that you can build obviously larger buildings on them and it makes a lot of sense in industrial zones my only my only concern is that at some point you have to put a map together that says these are the properties that we want to take and aggregate and build something on and I can't imagine that that is a comfortable conversation in this town obviously this is a plan that was done over very blighted property although a very active active industrial zone as well and so we had a lot of conversations with property owners established clearance areas demo areas you know areas of environmental cleanup these were acquisitions that we had to propose this would be another part of an urban renewal plan we would propose what properties that the board would be willing to acquire to then do some industrial development with as well as a list of potential acquisition parcels etc so the idea is that eventually you'll come up with great big industrial parcels for disposition and then you will dispose of them to a humongous lab developer or you know somebody along those lines I will say I worked on this project for two years and you can see one of these maps is just so great I think in terms of access this is active free right here with two spurs off it I couldn't give this property away nobody would take it it is you know it's it's contaminated it has a you know a whole host of issues but again I think what we have to keep in mind is you know preserving industrial space in Arlington that previously revolved around you know the rail that we turned into a bike trail the Milbrook which we re-rooted you know really how much you know of this of the kind of industrial uses that we've seen put out say in the last you know the report Jane recommended etc you know how much of this do we really likely see happening you know if these are sort of what's going on in other portions of the state you know large large industrial areas do we then focus on our industrial area in a different way maybe not necessarily lab etc maybe it is you know you don't have the blighted mill buildings like in other communities whatever maybe we build our own mill building and it is artist work live you know space something like that or we can certainly put together I think a great plan for our industrial districts that would include a lot of those similar elements so are you suggesting looking at doing one economic development plan for all of the industrial zone or just part so it would be an an urban renewal plan and I think the common wealth calls them urban renewal and revitalization renewal and revitalization and so we'd have to come up with a story Arlington's industrial zones are so it would be all the zones it would be all the zones it could be it could be as small as you know just one area okay so you're not wedded to any particular part not necessarily I would say that short of this and I think this is a lot of like in my rat property uh huh I mean we would really be talking about which of these are going to take and clump together building on them and you know that is that's a conversation that we have you know what I I guess two things one is I would be interested in going out and walking through there and thinking about it before sort of saying what I think about doing it and you know that part which is you know I think that includes the part where they're going to put up the self-storage building maybe that way through yes yeah the new one or the other one the new one the new one is I mean there are a lot of small businesses there that do a lot of service for people who live in Arlington and there's nowhere else for them to go in town so it's not as easy as you know as just let's do an urban renewal plan and put the parcels together because I think that it's not I'm not clear that that would serve the town in terms of the businesses that are there and where they're like a lot of the automotive things that are there so you know because the town did a either a good or a bad job depending how you look at it and chasing automotive out of Mass Ave and and Broadway and places like that so you know it's ended up being I'm not only in the industrial zone so mostly now in the industrial zone so I'd want to take a look and think about it as I walk down there personally so I think there the main distinction between doing say an urban renewal plan or an industrial master plan is that were we to go through the prescriptive process of putting together an urban renewal plan this board would retain their redevelopment authority that you don't currently enjoy without the active urban renewal plan and that's okay maybe that's okay right can I just suggest to you I really do think that the board should reread the Arlington Heights neighborhood action plan because a lot of these topics were explored because it looked at not only Mass Ave but also the industrial area directly behind yeah directly behind between Park Street Summer and Mass Ave that area right there which is a really interesting space and is this Arlington Lumber yeah are those numbers on the left-hand side of Arlington Lumber and Cold it's on the west side of yeah that's right there it's Gold's Gym or whatever it's called now and some warehouse space over on that side so you could do a plan that includes Arlington Heights and the industrial yeah or just for that that's the question that's on topic this time it's on topic yes yes do we have bandwidth to do this I thought we were going to also look at the master plan we have a lot to do I think this has come up and you know bubble to the top of my to-do list because I think it's important that the board understands you know what they enjoy as participating as part of the redevelopment authority or a planning board and if we're not going to pursue you know an official urban renewal plan that gives you guys the authority to do X, Y, Z then we should look at transferring any other property back to the town you know obviously for their their maintenance and operations and I think we should focus a little more on the work of the planning board aspect of this particular board I have no problem with that which is talking about I just was thinking that we're going to do the master plan which is really overdue and we're going to focus on that once we sort of cleared some of these other hurdles here unless you guys are desperate to own property that's not one of my no things I don't think we I didn't join the board for that reason I'm not desperate to own I'm not desperate to own property but we can accomplish more I think by setting up one of the zones then we could by updating the master plan by setting up an urban renewal plan and we could by just updating the master plan so there's some sort of balance there but you know the potential to accomplish more I think is higher with an urban renewal plan can I say that there is a parcel that this board keeps coming back to as criminally underutilized in this town and that is the Russell common lot right and if I had to today identify a place where I would love to see an urban renewal plan created that this board really sink its teeth into that would be the parcel and the place across the street from is that state owned no the myrax on it no no the one of the they just read the state rents it but they don't know oh so we I agree with I agree with okay Rachel said we've talked about the potential of the Russell common lot but I just want to say that I don't know six seven years have been on the board we've always been talking about updating the master plan and every every says oh the master plan says this the master plan does this we're following the master plan and then we know I just want to we made a lot of promises I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive okay this is a long process yes the urban renewal plan and this board there will be a master plan there will be a committee put together it will not be this board that is solely responsible for moving forward the with the consultant that we will hire I'm sure the work of the master plan to to create the master plan this board will have a lot of input to it I was referring to not us that's referring to them they're clearly has the energy and the interest in that you know what I'm trying to get at this came off this because I think town council is holding that for lack of an active plan the ARB cannot own or hold property and that seemed to be not you know the not taken exactly under most positive terms by the board and I definitely appreciate that so given I think the board responsibility you know some of the other things we've done in the past if we wanted to do a smaller plan urban renewal something like that we can um I don't I agree with Rachel I don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive there's a lot that goes into an urban renewal plan and it is very very contentious but that's not to say that we can't do it I will say that in terms of me personally I also have a lot of interest in master plan and doing that sort of work now whether that turns into an urban renewal plan or not I would have to do my own research on I don't know what level of blight you would have to show to have it really turn into say an urban renewal plan that doesn't mean that it can't be a master plan that doesn't mean that we couldn't do with the form-based code something like that also unlike some of the other properties I don't know if this matters that Russell Commons owned by the town it is owned by the town don't get moving you know it's well this is house in front by mass air we can move again Russell Commons is sort of funny there's focus on that at woodhouse property I mean my gosh sir you know once upon a time before mystic street was aligned to pleasant yes you know that'll line there was Russell common and it got a chunk taken out for that street alignment and then it got turned into a parking lot it's just the park that could not win it's a parking lot for as long as it has so I'm happy to criminally under you do a little more focus on that so camp park there overnight because you have like especially someone in our house there's a um all right I appreciate your thoughts thank you that's uh that's a good info to have moving forward okay any other new business items I have a brief one please um I'm aware that the chair of the affordable housing trust one board approached yes approached you asking basically to if it would be okay to recruit an ARB member so I've been recruited to um they said they you know they invited me to uh participate in their efforts to develop an affordable housing overlay and I agreed so I will be doing that fantastic great well part to you Steve I admire your energy and bandwidth and passion so thank you so much and it would be great um you know if you are able to update the board absolutely to forward I know that that's something that um was in the housing production plan as a strategy and um the board was really supportive so great anything else all right uh so with that we will close new business and I will see if there is a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn I'll second think a boat starting with Steve yes Gene yes Ken yes and I'm against as well the meeting is adjourned thank you so much thank you