 All right, so we are here today. We're rolling. So we're here today with Mr. Gary Purdy in Hamilton And the interviewer will be as usual William McCrack. So we're just gonna begin with a few simple questions So, Mr. Purdy, could you please state your entire your whole name, please? Gary Rush Purdy and What year were you born? 1936 and Where were you born? Edmonton Edmonton. Okay, and as a child what did your parents do for living? My father did many things. He was a World War one veteran Of other things. He was a high school principal He was a time of fur trader in the very far north of the Kensie River Delta I think immediately after the war he he was subject to PTSD and Essentially went to a very isolated place, had some adventures there And then he became an entrepreneur So he did many things. My mother was a teacher And she looked after essentially a one-room school house with a wide range of Students of different ages and abilities and then she When she married she was required to retire from teaching Because at that time The thought that someone might actually become pregnant was enough to cause them to be ineligible to teach And so she became a secretary to the school board of Edmonton. They went through the depression. It was a difficult time absolutely and I say my father became a business person. What did he do during the depression? He actually ran a series of movie theaters around Alberta and so he would essentially travel around the northern part of Alberta with a number of films and If people didn't have money he'd take wheat or some produce for admission Basically got through the depression And he did do a lot of different things. He did. Yeah, where did he fight in World War one? Some of the most famous battles including passion Dale at your age He was actually wounded a couple of times and wounded out to England What I would say is a fairly difficult life largely because of the war. Yeah Yeah, I mean you must have seen some things in those battles. I'll tell you. Oh, yeah, he lost a lot of lost of a lot of companions and You as a child, what did you do for for fun passing the time? Good question Basically, I think we were free-range children. I mean we didn't worry too much about being kidnapped or anything. We just went to fields and you know played games of various kinds I Actually took to music very early too. So I became a pianist at age four or something like that and I've enjoyed music ever since my as well I play piano as well. Not as early as age four, but I love the piano And so so I guess one of your first big interests was music. That's right. Yeah Did at any point as a child did you show interest more towards the sciences or yeah, I think I I Enjoyed geology especially and that was largely because of the science teacher who used to take us on field trips in a spare time Uncover fossils and that sort of thing. So I became quite fascinated with minerals and Actually went through a mining engineering program It often starts with one good teacher, that's right. Yeah, it's good so Say I tell me about your first Your your bachelor's when you I say was it was in mining engineering with an emphasis on mining geology and I Became somewhat disenchanted with geology because it was pretty ad hoc in those days It was very little science that you could actually identify behind a lot of the geological science and Became more interested in in metallurgy, which I felt was more more quantitative and predictable. Okay, and at that time it was I was also Inspired by a teacher Jim Parr who was a well-known metallurgical researcher. So I did a master's degree in metallurgy in Alberta with and under his supervision and became very interested in the scientific aspects of new materials and So when it came time to think about what to do after finishing a master's degree I took a year off and I heard that there was a really exciting development master Which was a new program and it was a strong I've called a science-paced metallurgy and materials program and Particularly a fellow named Jack Cercaldi who is a bit of a legend in the materials field Was becoming known as a a a firebrand in the sense of all kinds of Really exciting ideas and be a very strong mathematical physics background and so I decided I'd come to McMaster and work with him and for a PhD and I did and that became a lifetime friendship and partnership to some extent So that's what got me to McMaster. Okay And what was your thesis on for your PhD? It was on basically transformations in steel and So I became interested in the whole question of how alloying elements affect the transformations in steel And how you can have so many steels with slightly different compositions in very different properties And that's been a essentially a lifetime interest. Did you ever I mean you must have worked with or Alongside as certain steel-making companies Like Hamilton again was a natural place because that time that the major steel of the steel companies in Canada were in Hamilton Stealth was faster with the time and they were Very instrumental in the formation of a metallurgical engineering program at McMaster They influenced Harry Thorne our first president very very clearly and they I think pretty much insisted that there'd be a strong Metallurgy component in the engineering new engineering program at McMaster, which was just under development then So Jack McCauley and Howard Petch who was the chair of the department at the time Essentially started the program in the 50s and they taught the whole curriculum themselves and they started looking for Bright young people to come and join and so they added to the that pair of faculty members they added a couple of others and began one of the strongest departments in Canada and At one time it was considered one of the strongest departments in North America so it's been a good place to be and a good place to do research and a good place to Teach and encounter very bright young students who Want to understand materials more deeply and make them better as it as of I guess later was the number of students with the size or even the I guess the Legacy of the program did it diminish somewhat because of the closure of big companies like Stelco or Yeah, I think I think you have to admit in more recent years DeFasco is still quite active in research and they're doing some very interesting things, but they are now a part of a worldwide metal arcelor DeFasco Group and so they have you know less impact. I would say even locally and Stelco was sold to US Steel Basically some serious problems So I would say that that's true of the mineral industry in Canada in general It would be so many Purchases of Canadian based companies by global firms and I'm talking not just about the steel companies. I think aluminum For example has moved Alcan labs in Kingston no longer function Stelco research has gone Eco you could you can go right across Canada named one That allergic company after another and they've been purchased and they've been in many cases Downsized the research capabilities that be moved somewhere else and so I see it as a Very unfortunate set of developments Mm-hmm, and I I don't see how you can reverse that what's happened Yeah, and has it effect the the numbers in the It's affected the opportunities for our students in Canada especially Absolutely, where would you go? So I really see that as a very negative And I could launch into a diatribe against it, but I Really is I think it's affected our students and their prospects and in fact what we do I agree But we'll back we'll back up again. So you came here to do your PhD. Yeah, was this your first time in? Hamilton, yes, first time out east. Yeah more East. Yeah, well, yeah Center yes, and what did you do after the PhD? Well, I had a I Was one of those lucky people who I had Basically tons of job offers. I had a PhD in a field where the demand was high at the time and a number of universities were looking for people to take teaching positions and I Was offered Number of positions in the US one time Bell Labs was a very prestigious place and that was one of the places I could have gone And I looked at all the opportunities right across Canada. There were five offers from Canadian universities and Thought McMaster was by far the best place at the time. I think it still is pretty good Because of its program. Yeah a program and opportunities. I mean, so I did it I did a postdoctoral here and that I decided to stay here and Be here ever since and be a professor. Yeah, and what what were your first classes? I Forgot We taught everything. I mean at that time you basically were required to give a Curriculum or present a curriculum that was suitable for metallurgical engineers and metal metallurgical scientists too because we had Appointments in both faculty science and engineering And so at one time I'd be teaching mass transfer another time I'd be teaching thermodynamics for engineers another time phase transformations and solace And I wound up teaching general science for Non-science students on occasion because we we basically taught what was needed so we learned a lot Sometimes you learn something best when you teach it absolutely. Yeah, and again I I really enjoyed working with students and in some cases we do undergraduate projects that would be joint with industry in other cases it would be post-graduate work, but But you know one of some of the best times I've had I've been working with bright okay What's okay? Here's a similar question, but what won't be your favorite class or classes that you've taught? or subjects Well, I really like phase transformations and materials because that's how you you tie in basic science with the final structure that leads to the final properties Okay, so I taught that for a long time And was there any I'm sure there were at any points in your career any specific projects or jobs that were dysfunctional But large dysfunctional moments in your career That's that's a tough question I really had to be very lucky in the sense that I've had very enjoyable Contacts with a number of people both in industry in the community at the university and I can't think of anything that that was really What you'd call dysfunctional I've had awkward moments So what would be the most challenging Thing you face professionally, but well, I was dean of engineering for five okay, that was While there's a broadening experience but maintaining a research group and it's a research career if you like during that period meant I spent most of my weekends at the university and working with people then and You know trying to keep keep two balls in the air at the same time. So yeah, I had a similar Chad yesterday with Someone else I interviewed actually who says hi Jock McKay. Oh, yeah, he says hi actually very good. Yes, too. I was interviewing today and he said a very similar thing about when he got into more of a Research but also had to do administration be a boss. That's what he Disliked more or found it tougher because he loved the research and he couldn't yeah Nearly do it as often. Yeah, and so it's exactly the same The same issue I think from a slightly different point of view and I do think that it's hard for administrators to be good administrators and still maintain a lively research interest in career So I would I after the after the five years stent as dean I was Able to sort of revitalize things, but it was I was slowing down. No question, right? Yeah And let's talk a bit more about your actual research. What what would you say would where you're a? groundbreaking or major achievements in research throughout your career I mentioned a lifelong interest in in steels and how alloying elements affect the final structure and properties That's still a Big part of my interest in other areas, I worked on aluminum alloys quite a bit and Nowadays with light weighty for automobiles, for example Aluminum magnesium are very important bases for alloys I worked on And other things shape memory alloys. I was very early into that business and it's now Subdiscipline in its own right, but in a way My former supervisor at Alberta, and I discovered the material that led to the shape memory Phenomenon if you like so so what's that applied to today in layman's terms if you had to I guess well, okay shape memory The the simplest example is titanium nickel, which is a 50-50 compound With its own unique structure it undergoes Martin-Cinic transformation at low temperatures and when you bend it into a shape at low temperatures Heated a bit every day goes back to its high-temperature shape Now this can be used for temperature sensing devices, but could also be used for orthodontic Devices for example when you want gentle pressure put on teeth to realign them can be used for space Applications where antennas are made into a small ball warmed up a bit become immediately full-flow full-blown antennas so anything that that you want to Oscillate between two shaped states And it has to do with the selection of variants of the martensite transformation. It's a It was a new phenomenon at the time. We were we were in there before the ground floor So you I kind of discovered the Is it wasn't a specific? Element or metal material. It's a structure, which is an inter-metallic compound Okay, now a number of other materials that show the same kind of thing including Bronze's brasses polymeric materials all show this same type of shape memory But it has to be specifically something that transforms in a diffuseless way at low temperatures And so we say we were there before the ground floor And that was my master's thesis actually one of the aspects so that was Something else and then working I've worked on a semiconductor multi-layer devices for optical laser applications and Studied the ways in which one can build up Materials layer by layer through molecular beam epitaxy I also Helped to discover I was I guess I was Why I've been cited as that this is one of the discovery of something An unexpected phenomenon Which has a number of applications and it has to do with a coupled grain boundary Diffusion that is some material Solid's diffusing along a grain boundary the solid and the grain boundary motion was coupled with it And that's known as diffusion induced grain boundary migration and for a while It was a very hot topic of research and still it keeps being encountered by researchers who are doing studies of essentially by material properties So there's a lot of a lot of research and discovery that's gone on And I've done this in different countries with different colleagues I've spent sabbatical leaves at sweet in a couple of years there at the Royal Institute of technology also got new research research yeah, and in France in Grenobleau which is One of the major engineering schools in France I got on they call the boss We're teaching and research there, so we've taken advantage of a Number of opportunities to go abroad on sabbatical or research leaves and do research and some teaching So I also had one to studying creep of intermetallic compounds at Central Electricity Research Labs in England So we've been I've taken advantage of the academic system allows one to go and actually work elsewhere and work with other colleagues and Refresh one self. Well, where was your favorite? Destination tough call. I think Sweden Sweden. I think Stockholm. What did you do in Sweden? Well, among other things I had access to one of the very few one million electron volt electron microscopes in the world So I was able to do high-temperature studies of transformations and solvents in situ in an electron microscope that was three stories high and an electron accelerator on top and You know, this is an opportunity that was essentially unique and And again, I went to Cambridge in England did work at the Cavendish laboratory, which is a You know extremely fine research lab and in France I was able to work with Again some very bright researchers and very fine people Still maintain those relationships even today What's your So your career what would you say would be your fondest memory? I do have a family So if we if we make it let's put it in half, okay Well, so fondest memory and then fondest professional memory. Okay fondest memory raising a family with my wife and Living in this house for half century and seeing four children for a while We now have eight grandchildren All of whom are very charming all very different summer athletes some or not But yeah, there's some musicians. Oh, yeah Yeah, it might be genetic to some extent with my wife and I love music and we both Sing in choral groups of various I think it is. Yeah, I see some families who just oh they have the ear Yeah, we know some where the whole family's a string all the kids are string quartet or something like that. Well, that's that's not an accident Yeah, yeah, so In terms of personal life families very important and the fact that we were able to take our kids On these trips to different countries and have them go to school there and make friends Okay, because you go there for a while. Oh, yeah, you're at a time. Okay. Yeah So, okay, that's that's plenty part B professional fondest memories I think working with really really exceptional people in I don't want to single out There are many and in some cases there are people with whom I've maintained a friendship for all all these years and Expect to see them this summer, you know Continues What profession did you join any professional organizations your committees or things like that? Oh, yeah, what are the big ones? Are the ones that you remember? Now there's a strong possibility. I'm going to eliminate or forget one or two But obviously I'm a member of professional engineers of Ontario the I'm a member of TMS, which is the Large Materials organization in the USA I'm also a foreign member of the National Academy of Engineering in the States Which does work does work that I admire although I'm not able to contribute very much because as a foreign member a Lot of the issues are central to the US and its policies But this is this is an organization that has no funding from any outside organization So they speak truth to power in a very effective way I'm also a fellow the Royal Society of Canada and they have an opportunity to influence science policy in Canada Although I don't think the government listens to them all the time I'm also a member of CIM of course fellow of CIM ASM the American Society for Metals, which is another Organization that I have a fellow of Did you ever play a big? Big roles or big positions in any of those organizations not not so much I mean, I've taken part in I organize symposia I'm currently organizing Conference that will happen in Canada for the first time It happens every five years or so last one was in Avignon, France This time it'll be in Whistler, BC Not bad locations. Oh, yeah, they choose good locations. Okay, and The next one will be the next location will be decided by the membership of this conference at Whistler, so it moves around the world Possibly in China next time, but it's hard to say What what were your What social activities were you involved in throughout your career? What I have to do with Coral City Yeah, yeah My wife and I both were both members of the Backelder Choir in Hamilton, which is like a Philharmonic Choir for over 40 years so you You've seen you've experienced it as a member of the choir like that They're really great choral works and you get inside them, of course if you're actually part of the chorus And and that the University any were there any go-to social events or Activities that you would do colleagues or even students were there? Well, I mean obviously they're a get-together with students and colleagues from time to time I have a number of friends around the University and I work with them at sometimes on on social issues Right now I'm working helping to organize a series of public forums on Democracy and its its decay or well Something's happening to our democracy that that needs to be adjusted or maybe even Fixed changed. Yeah, and that has to do with participation at all levels And so I've been working with a number of people from different different disciplines all having the same Concern about about the challenges to democracy and the way it's working right now Good, yeah with their How how presence and or absent were women in your workplace and this I mean has probably changed from beginning to end Absolutely, yeah, but if you look at let's say during your Masters PhD and and then onward how did how did that change? Well engineering especially was a male bastion and there I think there was one woman in engineering In the late fifties early sixties and she was sort of held up as an example But obviously she was unique at McMaster and I remember her name Donna Carr I remember that she was a very good student, but I remember that she was Distinguished mainly by the fact that she was the only woman in the whole faculty Yeah, well the faculty wasn't big but still in percentage terms. It wasn't represented nothing. Yeah and then as time went on engineering became more I would say inviting For women largely because of the environmental aspects of engineering And that that's where I think women when it started showing a greater interest Want to stop that it were where were we now? so just picking up on women in the workplace and and also you as a Professor, how did you see that change for students as well for enrollment? Well, as I say it not so much in our department I think other departments had a greater emphasis on the environmental aspects of engineering water resources for example became Very interesting because women somehow saw this more clearly as a social concern Long before it pervaded society and so women decided I think also to go into certain aspects of engineering And so in some places some departments some universities they actually became the majority especially in those areas and so That changed the culture in engineering, which was pretty male-dominated still has aspects of that You know the students tended to be a little bit on the shall we say rowdy side And they used to play pranks which were some of which were really highly objectionable and Became famous for this and sort of enjoyed the notoriety of it That's that culture is pretty well disappeared. I think Today, but it was a long time changing How when did the more of the environmental aspects appear in a lot of the engineering programs during the 80s and became more more evident that such things as water treatment and water resource engineering as An example became very prominent Or did McMaster ever have because I know certain universities to try to encourage Most more specifically women to certain programs or faculties. They'll give them like Bursaries or scholarships or something like that. Were there any kind of programs like that? In those departments in McMaster, I think it was mainly based on students interests Good and Just a wish to do something useful A lot of engineers are motivated by something like that But this was particularly focused on the environment in my thinking anyway. I think you could probably Look at a program at Guelph for example where for the first time they actually had preponderance of female engineering students in Guelph's engineering faculty But that was largely due to the fact that they had an environmental focus of wealth coming out of their agricultural background so we saw that happening and we saw Something like that happening less to a lesser extent than McMaster and then I guess Are you still now or were the director of McMaster Center for Peace Studies? Yeah Still now or oh no. No, okay. You were I was yeah, okay years. I was director So what kind of what kind of work to first of all, can you explain what the Center for Peace Studies does? Okay, it essentially offers programs in such things as mediation ways of resolving conflict and It offers a Double honors program and peace studies plus another subject which could be political science could be philosophy Could be almost anything But the peace studies aspect focus on ways of resolving issues before going to war One of the big contacts we have is with the medical faculty Because peace through health is yet another Very strong aspect of the peace studies program. So we've worked with the medical faculty In fact, thanks to the medical faculty There is now a chair in peace through health at McMaster and that's that's part of the Sort of focus of the peace studies program. So it's a fairly it's it's it's a it's a fairly focused program It's very serious and it attracts students who are actually trying to make a difference. So I have a lot of admiration for those students so what kind of profession to the often does that Program produce Largely mediators. Yeah mediators peacemakers. And But we worked with the United Nations in Afghanistan, for example. Yeah, it's more of an international Oh, yeah, so it's a very very strong international component. But the fact that we work with the medical faculties as well It gives it sort of an interventionist aspect that would something like doctors without borders, but it has that that flavor and for some time we had some full-time employees who were working in in conflict areas Trying to just alleviate some of the some of the issues that arise during conflict maybe maybe that'll encourage Canada get to get back on the peacekeeping Well, I have colleagues studying Canada's peacekeeping background Canada has a remarkable history But it's it's it's changed the culture's changed. Yeah, well, we lost our we lost that title a few years ago Of course as peacekeeping nation So how did you get into Into that line because that's kind of completely different. Well, it's completely different but it has to do with with an interest in social issues and You know the broader societal aspects I've always had an interest and And I was I was on the council for the Center for Peace Studies for years. In fact, I was one of the one of the initial members of the council and Alvin Lear our president of the time was very interested in helping to form that that unit and At first it reported directly to the provost rather so it was a multi faculty unit And there were people from physics and chemistry as well in the in the Center for Peace Studies the idea being that Mathematicians physics physicists and chemists could talk about For example arm stockpiles We political scientists can talk about treaties and Yeah, you know you get experts. Yeah, I actually from all different areas And among other things we we started the number of lectures the Bertrand Russell peace lectures were formed in the Center for Peace Studies the Gandhi Lectureship, which are regular non-violence lectures They're still going on. There's a Gandhi Peace Festival. We work with the Indo-Canadian Community very strongly and then they have projects that are going on Developed through the Center for Peace Studies on women and democracy in India for example in a very current issue There's a group called MSS which is an Indian frame Indian series of words Which is the women's democracy movement in India is very well Representative it's very effective and there are places where women are essentially required to have 50% of all the elected seats in Indian Which they don't have here Bit back to you to your your race to your research, I guess but what I assume you worked with Partners, absolutely. So which what were big partners you worked with and and if so What was that work you did with them? Okay? Well, I mentioned Jack Ricalty is being a doctoral supervisor He was very instrumental in Starting a whole whole Subfield that face transformations theory and I worked on experiments that I Still working on experiments actually experiments that tend to Go deeper into the questions of how these alloying element effects work So that was one of the big contacts if you like a big master some of my former students are now professors elsewhere So I keep in touch with them There's a former post doc named you but a shea in France. It was a chevalier He's a member of the Academy in France He's he has many interests right now. He's head of the nuclear program at France, which is fairly time consuming but He's been essentially a colleague for many years and a very What's the word? He has many ideas That was Another one is Matt's Hillerts who's in Sweden and a very sort of almost a father figure for the face transformations community. He actually developed a whole series of ideas which people are now following and especially computational thermodynamic computational material science Here's one of the one of the initiators and still At age 90 is still very active in the field So those are three people that have been Colleagues over the years. I say some of my former students are now Also people with whom I am always nice to see. Oh, yeah Some really brilliant people one of the faculty member of the associate professor McMaster happens who are on Who was a PhD student? He also wins all the teaching awards remarkable researcher teacher Genuinely exceptional person And with any partnerships also with companies so like a lot of research I'm guessing maybe works with Stelco or yeah fast killer. Well, I still have a partnership with DeFasco, okay, I say that they are now part of a much larger global company our solar Mattel DeFasco There is still a very strong research capability We're working with them on some next generation steels Which are based on phase transformations that lead to structures that are stronger and more ductile so That still goes on as you say Stelco used to be We had a number of contacts and research contracts, too and This seems to be a trend among among you new guys in the mining metallurgy and petroleum industry, but You say you are retired, but are you actually fully retired because you were saying I'm still working with DeFasco Well, we are I mean I am so what are what are your our role? What are your roles right now or what what things do you still do? Well, I volunteer okay, basically a McMaster They say I have this lifetime appointment, which means I have an office and I Can still have research grants like laboratory research to some extent I just finished volunteering on the McMaster's History volume 3 which covers 1957 through 87 and I say that was essentially the time McMaster has it now as it has evolved Became what we what we know today and that was an eight-year commitment and I did a lot of interviews. In fact, I've got transcripts of Hundreds of interviews I've done with either people or groups of people along with other members of the committee and Some of our are I think pure gold I mean there they tell you much more about the people and the institution we could ever put in a single volume So we want to archive those So that was a fairly large commitment the peace studies directorship was essentially two-thirds post retirement, okay And Then there's the research interest that I still have postdoctoral fellows PhD students from time to time One is rating up now one just finished So you never fully retire? Well, I mean why would one want to retire when when one has had a you know, really quite Lifetime focus and interest in number of areas And there's an opportunity to continue so So I'm very happy with that. They don't pay me for this Right, it's for the love of it. That's right. Yeah. It's a more or less I was paid for years to pursue a hobby Now to continue the way to look at it. Yeah, that's how Most people I go that's how I hope they go through life what Looking back and we'll divide this in two parts of what would be your proudest Achievement accomplishment or moment in life and then also the same in life professionally in your career My proudest achievement is is my family. Don't question Was the same bit professionally so so within your career looking back It may be a tough question, but if you can think of one or a few of your proudest moments or achievements Well, I think rather than achievement it's being the the sense of participation with other people in Basically, basically intellectual endeavor Okay, you know the some of the research topics have been a little obscure at first and then gradually come in the focus Some of them have immediate applications some we don't know It's always important to get a good fundamental grasp of what's what's happening within any given Scientific engineering Situation and so the more we can get closer to the basic understanding physics chemistry, what have you the more we can See in depth and the more we can see Into the basically Rejections of what what's to come so you can't you can't really just take a superficial attitude and say well Let's apply this it seems to work Because that that will send you off You know false paths And that's what we want to avoid So right now we have tools the next generation of tools for looking at Structure of materials for example are are just amazing We have The Center for electron microscopy at McMaster. It's a national center It's I would say thirty forty million dollars worth of equipment and It's basically a way of looking at individual atoms one at a time. Wow in that capability we have something called atom probe tomography and If you've ever seen some of these images that you identify one atom at a time What was in that sample? What's a location? Location location is important, right? But but also What what it is? So we can find one Nairobium atom for example in a steel and we can locate it on a defect in a structure We can localize it to the extent of a single atom. Wow dimension Now that that's remarkable and we can now take samples Sampling is a bit of a trick when you're looking at individual atoms We can sample from the structure that we can see it in an ordinary microscope take it into an electron microscope Image it in sort of atomic dimensions put it in an atom probe and Look at where the atoms are and what they are and that's a remarkable kind of ability to Bring to these problems that we've had for a long time steels are complex Illumina always a complex none of these cysts none of these systems that we depend on for our You know transportation all these other applications none of them are simple systems nobody uses pure iron anymore No pure aluminum pure titanium But we can now say where the atoms go and what they do and that's yeah, that's that's new That's exciting. Yeah, how new is that? that equipment well Like the atom probe Well, the field ion microscope is the predecessor of the atom probe. That's been around for a long time 40-50 years. I guess Well, I had assumed I actually built one in the laboratory But that was just evaporating tungsten needles and looking where the atoms were and you get an image of the very sharp tip And you can see what the structure is but the idea of coupling that kind of field an imaging field of aberration With a mad time of flight mass spectrometer so that every atom that came off Was essentially detected in the time of flight gave you the essential mass of the atom That combination is relatively more recent. I would say the past 20 years The availability of sampling devices that let you actually go to a particular area in a sample Dig it out with a with a focused ion beam machining device Make it into a needle put the needle in the in that in the evaporator And evaporate all the atoms and then reconstruct the situation at 3d and be able to rotate it on the screen That kind of capability Maybe five years. I'm not sure those those times But why is widely wide availability is quite recent? So, you know, this is a whole new depth of materials research One of my favorite questions I have to ask if you had to Speak to someone much younger like I am or a student What would be the one life lesson or piece of advice that you would give them if you're lucky enough to follow curiosity and have some sense of Significance of that Then do it If you have that opportunity Like you're saying you got paid to do a hobby. That's right. Just say yeah, which is awesome Is there anything else you'd like to add or share with the with me? No, I Pretty well mind all there is to be Excellent excellent. Well, thank you very much for your time. Okay. Very well. Appreciate it