 Ladies and gentlemen, let's kick-start the day with a fireside chat for which the topic is the new frontier for mobile apps. Before I invite the speakers for the session, may I please invite Mr. Amit Yadav, Country Manager South Asia Pubmatic as a session chair, followed by the speakers Ms. Tanushree Radhakrishnan, head biddable, Group M, and Atisham Ali, Vice President, Monetization, Operations, and Progmatic Business, NDTV. Hi Atisham, Hi Tanushree and thank you Pallavi. Hi Amit. Good afternoon everyone. Good afternoon. Alright, I think we are done with the introduction so that's a good bit. Let's just quickly jump into it. So we heard Dr. Bhattra talking about the way mobile has penetrated in our lives. I mean the situation at this point of time is like for the past four or five years we've seen like multi-fold growth on mobile. You think of a used case and maybe that is probably solvable in one way or the other by a mobile app. So the usage has grown significantly which basically means there are lots and lots of users on the mobile ecosystem. But then again it also poses a lot of challenge in the sense that how do we basically cater to these user or this audience in the most effective in the most efficient manner and also ensure that the right messaging is delivered in the right context and possibly drive some call to action. So with that context set I would probably get on my first question and that's to you Tanushree. So what do you think the value of programmatic is for mobile app ecosystem as such? Sure. So I think there's no point in terms of really talking about the value of mobile per se. So like Mr. Bhattra mentioned right now, we are screenagers. We live in the times of mobile and I think we have seen that really significantly pick up post pandemic. I think what no CDO or no CTO could do, COVID has done for us. So while the surge has been humongous, I think see what happens on the mobile on the programmatic app pieces. App based programmatic was traditionally followed by I think waterfall model of buying. And in which developers would typically request for bid sequentially from a hierarchy of networks. Now the problem with this model was that it lacks transparency and often good results in lower price for publishers than what could potentially be available in the real time auction. While in web environments we kind of managed to have unified options and have the header bidding in place. But apps unfortunately, you know, like, I mean, we still do not have that level of, I would say, you know, technical advancement out there. So while we are using variety of terms and process, you know, including bidding and app bidding and stuff. There's still a long way for us to go out there. So while it has faded an importance on the web front, I think on the mobile because of the technological challenges that exist, you know, whether it's around reconciling SDKs and stuff. I think till the time we are not able to attribute each one of them individually. I think till such time, I think we'll have to continue looking at it. And interestingly, you know, like I stumbled upon this report, I think which was with Appmatic itself, which spoke about how header bidding has increased significantly in the mobile front. So while we are seeing a growth one year, I think it would be very interesting to watch out for that. But until such time, yes, value for programmatic on mobile app definitely exists and there are no two ways about it. Perfect. I'll shoot the same question to Atisham as well. Atisham, what do you think that programmatic, how it drives value for your mobile app business? So let's just start with like all the industries moving. If I say app as a product, yes, we are growing. Obviously the spends are coming. And mostly you see spends are going towards like fintech, ad tech, all those places. So the biggest challenge being a publisher, what we face is obviously the cycle to make any technology changes. It takes a lot. So obviously, so that is something publishers always struggle with. And obviously, like being a news publisher, yes, there are spends coming. There are buys happening on mobile apps and stuff. But we haven't seen that kind of upliftment in terms of programmatic or on a news genre per se. Because obviously advertisers and buyers are a little cautious about what content they are present on. That is the biggest thing which has started coming up that obviously they wanted to be, they don't want to be associated with any bad content, which is a negative news. Even like most of the advertisers now started treating COVID news also as like a negative news. So obviously that is also a biggest challenge what we've been like being a news publisher we've been having. But yes, we've been seeing growth, but obviously the growth isn't that great. So obviously we're still trying to figure out like what we're exactly to invest on, what technology to be used on. But yes, header bidding, yes, we are working on header bidding, where we are working with problematic only on the header bidding stuff. So we have seen initial good results. So let's hope this will be done from there. Adishan, you talked about challenges which is news probably not being the preferred media, especially the negative news not being the preferred, what do you say context where advertisers would like to run their ads. Tanishi, my question is actually to you, how do you think that this is a blocker? So where I'm coming from is there are users, there are people who's consuming the content. But like Etisham said that that idea or that connotation of associating with negative news is still very strong in the advertisers mind. And that probably also stops from advertising on the overall website itself or the app itself. Do you think that there are ways to probably filter out or to probably, or maybe at your end you're probably doing something which is basically carving out like good quality inventory to basically serve to that kind of audience. Certainly, as an advertiser it's quite evident. They would be worried about the quality of the content on which an ad is being played. But I think the fact remains that how do you really instill that confidence amongst them in terms of what can be done. So the simple problem logic that we apply is as long as we have sufficient hygiene as far as brand safety is concerned, like viability, ad fraud and stuff. I think if we are implementing those third party measurements and blocking partners in place then it's not surely a problem. So the key I would say is to have a mix of contextual and measurement partners which can supplement the DSPs with specific options. And that's what will actually give us the right, I would say the right ad at the right point in time. And it is also beneficial for the client because you are eventually keeping better otherwise. So I think it's not really so much of a concern. Yes, we have to be careful and cautious about where we are doing it and how we are doing it. But that does not really add help people from using programmatic is how I see it. Perfect. A question related to like the same set of same stream. What formats do you think are basically preferred mostly these days by the advertisers? So whether it's video, is it display, is it native? So see, I mean, especially post COVID, like I mean, as people hunkered down at home during the pandemic and they spent a lot of time watching video. I think we definitely see a growth on that front and it's way more than what we had anticipated initially. So yes, there is a huge surge in video. What we've also interestingly seen is, you know, a surge in contextual in-app advertising, which has started picking up. See, because this whole era where we would not really be able to look into third-party tracking or cookies and all that in a cookie-less world, I think the first-party data point becomes way more important. And, you know, so surprisingly though, I would say, you know, native has not really picked up scale in India yet. So that's one piece where, you know, like definitely we would want to see more interesting stuff and content come into play. But our video is a definite plus-plus. We have seen growth across and I think it is across all formats, like six-seconders, ten-seconders, long-form content, because I think there's no better way to communicate and engage your audience than video. So that's there, definitely. You said surprisingly native. Do you expect like you have like demand for native and there is no supply as such? Or the advertisers are not willing for native? See, it would be a mix of both, right? So because when you look at the way the market is evolving and we're talking about personalization at scale or, you know, like having a content to scan, context to screen, all those sermon logis are fine, right? But the fact remains that how do you really get the right kind of inventory, the right kind of format which will engage your audience? I think what comes to my mind is, you know, like, I mean, I don't remember the name of the brand, but KFC had done a very interesting in-game, you know, content sinkage with one of these gaming apps, where, you know, like, I mean, I think it was to do with some hunting of ghosts and stuff. And, you know, like, you could actually find out those specific posts in the KFC outlets. I think that's a brilliant way to engage a consumer, right? I mean, you are in a gaming app, but you're not taking it away from them. You are enhancing that experience for them. So as long as the content enhances the consumer experience, I think it's a brilliant place to be in. Nice. Ateshaan, do you think that native is something that your advertisers or agencies are asking for? Do you think native would probably be the next thing? I definitely agree with Tanushri on that. We haven't seen native much, but obviously one thing which we have really seen as a bit of is obviously the demand for the video, especially for the app thing, because now a lot of advertisers, what started, obviously mapping users, messages, what handset device they are on. So obviously, if you are actually have an iOS app and obviously, you know, like, any iPhone is like more than 30,000. So obviously if you wanted to actually target that kind of an audience who have like that kind of a spend, so obviously they can easily target to iOS app and they can get that. So that's one thing what we have seen, like obviously on the video part, like the spend has increased. But yes, native we haven't seen it, it's pretty much the same what it was earlier. Okay. Tanushri, you mentioned about, you know, going away of cookies. I think that's a good point of discussion. We have seen that regulation or self-regulation coming in the in app environment also and we have seen that Apple, you know, going for an opt-in version of passing device IDs. Do you think while I think that in app as an app, Apple is still not a scalable solution in India, but if Google follows the same path, which means Google also makes it opt-in, do you think that will affect the way you target users? Do you think that's going to affect your overall performance business, so to say? Yes, definitely. In fact, where I would say honestly, I'm happy about the fact that they rolled it back for about two years because then at least that helps us have a head start on it. So while we've already started working on first party data and methods so that we can actually capture that entire piece. And I see there are no two ways about it, because respecting the sentiments of users and choice-based marketing as we're calling it, I mean, that is the way to go. We definitely see Google taking that stance. But what I would say is when the duopoly kind of moves into such a place, the markets will kind of go. We will figure out ways in terms of ways around it to deliver on it. And it would be very similar to what we're working around on the whole cookie deprecation front. So there are ways in which we are working. Let's say with Google when we talk about the flock-based method mechanisms. So there will be instances and there will be technology which will be utilized in terms of having a way around it. So I see because tracking and cookies are not the only way targeting gets done. So there's a lot more to it. So yes, of course, we would be able to work around it and come up with more interesting alternatives of device level of targeting. But yes, at the start, it will definitely pinch. We would see that drop happening in terms of performance. But I think as we evolve, we would see those numbers also scaling back up. All right. I think I probably have got some of the critical answers for myself. I'll probably wrap up with one question each for both of you. Like what are the biggest challenges that you see pertaining to growth of in-app business? And I'll probably ask this question first to Attisha and then to Tanushree. What do you think is like the biggest challenges or at least two challenges that you see that will probably be a blocker to your in-app business growth? I think the biggest thing for an in-app business and even from the buy side and from the publisher is to build a good data points for an advertiser to come and actually buy. So that is the biggest challenge in coming in because in app, obviously, there are limitations in terms of how you actually pass on the data and stuff and that is something we need to work on. Plus there are like obviously Google of the world and Apple of the world are like we are dependent on and stuff. So that is also one thing. And another important thing when it comes about data or like for example, right now we talk about first party, cookie third party. On a browser, still easier for a user to actually manage that part. But on an app, there are user, they are not that educated that how exactly you do opt-in and opt-out. Even if they do that, user are not that educated like how exactly. So those are the challenges will be like a biggest problem like irrespective of how much amount you spend like on that technology piece and stuff. But obviously those challenges would always be there. Right. Do you think infra will also be one of the biggest challenges? I keep thinking that the more users, the more people come on the app, the more info that you probably have to invest to basically, you know, and then you probably obviously need more revenue to, you know, manage that infracross. Those are things are still manageable. Those are things obviously if you see that there are demand coming and there are money flowing in office, those are not the biggest point. But the point is right now, first to get a right technology. Like whether are we going in the right direction? Because obviously even if you put money or two weight, obviously if you're not able to capitalize or utilize that, so obviously then it will be a challenge. So the biggest question here is like, are we going the right way or are we using the right technology? That is the biggest question. What do you think, Tanishin? One completely second what Aatashan was saying, right? I think this is in light of the current situation, right? When we are seeing the application of third party companies and other identifiers, I think it becomes imperative that, you know, apps themselves have a very robust mechanism of, you know, getting the content ready because it's definitely not easy to put all the content on apps. So, you know, while I would say a lot of these large publishers have started creating their cohorts on demo, interest, age, but I think, you know, the real fun in the game will only start when we actually start overlaying all these apps with these different identifiers, you know, whether it's location, context, because that's when the AI, you know, which will, an AI driven model will actually start happening to work, right? Because otherwise we are just going back to the initial ways of working. So that's where it is. And you know, another interesting point, you know, Apple and the Google, you know, while Apple says, you know, it's an opt-in, Google is mostly an opt-out. And like what Adisham mentioned, you know, it's completely, you know, like how many of us to be even really go and see whether it's an opt-out or not. So I think that's where the game will change. Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. I think very well said, Tanishi, I think the most critical part is how do we build an ecosystem which is probably self-regulated and also, you know, takes care of the privacy of the users while giving them the right set of information about brands and, you know, at the same time, good set of performance. Thanks. Thanks both of you. Good chatting with you. I hope the users also enjoy the discussion and have some good takeaways around in that monetization. Thanks both of you. Thanks Pallavi and over to you. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being here. That was really enriching. And we really appreciate you making the time and being here this Friday. Thanks. Bye.