 I would like to call on stage our co-moderators Mr. Rajesh Daniel, hand of communication for SEI Asia and Mr. Dwight Jason Ronan, senior program manager Australian Embassy in Thailand for our media session. Let's give them a round of applause. Oh, okay. Hello. All right. Good afternoon, everyone. I know it has been a very intellectually stimulating day, but we still have one more session and we would like this to be very engaging so that, you know, we have, I think, one of the visual summaries a while ago highlighted the value or the importance of storytelling. So that's what we're going to do this afternoon. So without further ado, I would like to call on Rajesh to lay out the foundation for this session. Thank you, Dwight. And thank you all for your patience. This is the last session. And we hope, as Carl said, you've been all intensely participating in this. Please do that for this session too. This one's about the media. And for those of you who might be wondering why, we have a few things that we want to explore in this session. We have three media people here. Dwight will introduce them. But I just want to lay out, set the scene for this session a little bit, what we're going to do. Media is a powerful player. We know this. Media reaches public, shapes public opinion. We know this. Media reaches policymakers. We know this. So we want to explore a little bit about how media does climate reporting. That's the first thing we want to do. And we want to share, we want to get media people to share their perspectives on what climate reporting means. And what do they need? Sorry. Thanks, Stefan. The second thing is how do we strengthen these media science policy partnerships? Because often there is, there's always some disconnect. There's always some grumbling about media didn't quote me properly or media saying that we got a 30-page document and we had to do it in one hour, things like that. We'll get into that. And the last thing is that climate stories themselves are not just about climate. Media knows this. They're often about local context. It's also about setting the science in local realities. And very important for us. And that's why we have the empower in the title. Sometimes it's giving voice to people on the margins, people who cannot tell their stories and media gives them a chance to tell their stories. So these are the three things that we want to explore. And now I'm going to hand over to Dwight to invite the panelists and moderate the session. Great. So now we would like to invite, as Rajas mentioned, we have an esteem panel of journalists or should I say science communicators this afternoon. So I would like to call on the three panelists and I will introduce them later more in depth once we ask the question. So we have with us Ms. Mili, an independent journalist from Vietnam. Please give him a warm round of applause. We also have Kun Pi upon Wun Rang, founder editor of Bangkok Tribune. And last but not the least, we have Mr. Anton Delgado, a journalist for Southeast Asia Globe. So while they're making their way on the stage, I'm sure as Rajas mentioned, today there has been a lot of learnings. I'm sure you've seen a lot of new statistics, new ideas, but at the same time there's also a lot of unlearnings. I think that's very important to challenge existing perspectives that we have and our existing biases that we have. And it's also the process of looking into different issues in a different lens, which may not have prior to that. So as I've mentioned, we have three distinguished speakers for this panel. I would like to start with Ms. Mili. Ms. Mili is actually an independent journalist based in Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam. But before that, she was a television reporter for Vietnam National Television, right? So my question to you, Ms. Mili, is from your experience in reporting about climate change, basically, what do you think are the potentials and the challenges that a media person face in reporting these issues specifically in the context of the MECong region? Thank you, Dwight, for the question. And good afternoon, everyone. I'm very thankful for this opportunity to engage you, these team scientists and policy makers with the media. So there is one thing that I think you should know about me is that I used to give up journalism and find my way back. So can I have my slide, please? So like Dwight said, I started out to work in news broadcasting, which usually has to be quick and short. So many years ago, next slide, please. So that was me many years ago. So I had to repetitively give reports on the worsening high time in Ho Chi Minh City. And at that time, standing in the politic water, I realized that suddenly it came to me that what I said on the news is quite shallow. So I decided to quit journalism and then join NGO work and learn about public engagement with science. And to be honest, I spent time with a scientist more than spending time with my lover. So I've learned a lot. So what I'm trying to say here is that science and environmental reporting don't come naturally to journalists like me. So I believe that understanding is the result of really close interaction and collaboration with the scientist, the researcher. Back to the present time, now I focus on slow journalism and explanatory journalism because I think that I will have more space and time for the content creators and the audience to digest complex information. So to me, ideally, climate change reporting in the Mekong region should be about giving people hopes and tell them how to make the hopes come true with all the necessary scientific evidences. So from my experience from reporting in Vietnam, I observed three situations. The first one, the media of Vietnam now is they are talking too much about the problems and that create news avoidance in people, especially young people. And secondly, because in Vietnam the newsroom needs to be owned by the state. So we also talk about climate policies. But most of the time they are full of big and technical works that prevent people from rural area and vulnerable group to join the discussion. So to find my way out of the problems, I try to include solution in my reporting. But it's not easy. So to answer your question, I see that there are two challenges for my colleagues and me when reporting on climate change in Vietnam. First of all, we worked really hard to find solutions for our report. But even when we find a solution, we still risk giving the people phones hope because we are not really sure if the solution can really address the problems. So for this point, I believe that the media nowadays need climate literacy. And that means that we need the help from the researchers. So two years ago, I was lucky to receive some net funding to work really close with a research group from King Yang, Vietnam. And so I learned so many things about wetlands, about water security and research protocol. And I made a lot of connections with the scientists in the field. So I think that such collaboration, such partnership is what needed right now for better communicating about climate change. May I end with one last photo? So this photo was taken in Dongtao, Vietnam. And the people there, they have stopped growing rice. And now they grow chili pepper instead because as a way to adapt to the climate change. So I believe that all of us here do love the story like this story with the smiles on the ladies. And I hope that today we will have a fruitful discussion on how to make this smile, how to make the collaboration happen. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mili. Of course, yeah. I think that's a good point. And also earlier during the opening remarks, it was highlighted that climate change actually affects all of us. So it's not just important for scientists. It's not just important for policymakers. But actually it's more important for the general public to understand and to take action in their own little ways. I would like to go on with Kunpi upon from Bangkok Tribune. And I just want to step back a little bit on the discussion the whole day with the theme of the round table, which is bridging science, policy and practice. And I don't know if you would agree with me that media plays an important role in actually being the bridge among these three sectors. Based from your experience, what does media play in bridging these gaps between these key sectors? First of all, I would like to thank the organizer for inviting me to join this session. I got some points to share with you also as a journalist who has been working on reporting on the issues that you are working on now. From what my colleague just shared to you actually is similar situation that we have been facing as a journalist. So maybe trying to close the gap and bridge the dot actually is our motto since day one. I mean my own news agency since I first set it up about, now it's four years ago, now it's fourth year. I think as a journalist who has been working on news reporting for four years, right? I think we share the same perception or perspective that there is a huge gap that still exists between policymakers and the locals who live on the ground, especially in this challenging time, I mean concerning climate change and weather extremes and even you know the latest event that just happening, right? So I think as a journalist, we've been trying to work to bridge the gap if we are not able to close it yet and connect the dots so that people can see bigger pictures so that they can get a better understanding. This is important because it's about making a decision and having more participation in decision making, especially in this challenging time for Thailand for instance because we are now in a transition again and we need more participation from the people. That is, I used to report a lot as a journalist but when I run this new agency so we devote the whole news agency to serve this purpose and I realize that to close the gap or to bridge the gap, we need knowledge and that comes to you researchers that we need the body of knowledge from you to help doing this. I think for the issue concerning climate change, from what I've been working on, we extensively rely on information from international community because we fight it hard that we can get information that lily when to our readers here. So maybe this is the thing that maybe we need to work together to, I'm not sure that in researchers community you already have certain institutions to work on this specifically for the Mekong region. It's quite important because we got many aspects to deal with the climate science for instance. We got to rely on the IPCC climate impacts that we hardly fight the answers for our region in particular yet. So that's why we cannot, like my colleague said, we cannot tell people what the solutions for them. That is also the challenge for us all, I think. Great. Thank you. Konpi apunfer for setting up a description of how media actually plays a role in bridging this gap. So I want to talk to Anton who is a multimedia journalist from Southeast Asia Globe based in Nongpen. We are in a room full of scientists and policymakers. What do you actually need from them in order to create good stories? This is your time to talk to them. I'm very excited to be here with all of you today, especially because I think the focus that Rajesh has asked me to highlight has been the use of multimedia in communicating all of our climate stories. And the number one thing that we need is time. So often I'm sent published peer-reviewed research papers well after the fact that the research has been done that effectively kills any multimedia opportunities for folks to communicate. And it's exceedingly awkward because I didn't prepare any multimedia for this presentation, so I apologize. But I would say that's the biggest thing. We're entering this new phase where multimedia even now isn't enough. So we create photos, videos and graphics, but now we have to translate that onto TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, or I'm sorry, X, Facebook and all of these other platforms. So I think the number one thing that we need from both policymakers and more importantly researchers doing field work is time and understanding of what you're doing before you do it. No offense, I've seen many photos taken by researchers. I think you need us too. And I think we need to partner. I've had this conversation researchers have set me in a Google drives full of photos that are unfortunately not the most usable when it comes to the news media. So I think it's really important in almost every case because to create this content, not only do we need to understand it, but we need to find new ways to tell it. I do think that there's a role in us doing the best that we can to synthesize your research and write it in a more understandable way, but we have to go far beyond that. I think we have to communicate it in different platforms. And I think unfortunately that's been a huge disconnect. And usually, you know, researchers spend so long and so much time on these excellent papers that once they're done, it'll be another three years before we hear from before we communicate again. And I I've had a difficulties with that. So if you're in the process of creating this excellent research, which I know many of you are doing or formulating these policies, please let us know well before it's done. We are on tight timelines, but I would say most climate journalists generally aren't doing breaking news. You know, we don't get assigned a story and in 12 hours we have to publish it. We kind of have a different job where a lot of explanatory investigative reporting comes in. So the time frames for climate newsrooms and climate reporters are a bit different than your standard news journalist. And I would say that's the number one thing. There are other ways that I think we can improve our relationship. But I think making sure that you're comfortable having conversations with us and then setting the norms for that conversation in that first chat is really important. I do understand that researchers have felt misrepresented by the press before. So I think initially when we start talking, we can talk about the different factors of on the record, off the record, on background and make sure that we're all on the same page before we start formal interview processes. So that's something I'd encourage all of you to do, especially because the independent press and state press and business driven press are all, I guess, different forms of journalism. And I would hate for you to paint all of us with a single broad brush. Before we expand the conversation with our distinguished participants as well, I just want to take a stab on what you said about time. And I want to direct the conversation about the use of social media. So social media actually is, I would say, a double edged sword because it democratizes access to information, but it also is a medium for disinformation and misinformation. So in, I'll lay out the question to the three of you. Based on your experience, what would be the best strategy from the media sector to actually fight climate denial or even misinformation in this information related to climate science? Have you had any experience related to that or what would be your suggestion as a general topic? I would say that it's a stacked fight, right? Because the amount of time that it takes us to produce a single news story, somebody can create five stories that dispute that. So inherently, I think journalists who are already in a strapped industry, as I'm sure we're all aware, and we're inside a system that financially is not viable and is not working. I think the fight against misinformation and disinformation is stacked against us, especially because unfortunately people do paint with broad strokes, right? So they had a bad interview with the journalists, therefore all journalists are like this. So I don't think there is an inherent solution yet that we're finding. I think making sure that you're speaking to independent, free and verified press is the most important thing. I think if you're getting interviewed by reporters in other countries and in newsrooms perhaps you haven't heard, I think it's important to take a look at where those journalists are coming from, right? Fact check us because a lot of reporters will come to you and say, Hey, I'm a journalist for X newsroom in whichever country and then you find out much later that that's state backed or has different agendas. So I think that would be one way that I'd say we could build a relationship between the free and independent press and researchers across the region, but it's definitely not a golden solution. How about you, Milit? I have something to weigh in here. So I'm going to tell you a story happening in Vietnam right now. So this day the Facebook in Vietnam is shower with debate about a province in Vietnam plan to remove a forest, a part of a national forest to build a lake that can provide water to the local people. So the debate is generally about the benefit of the water security of the local people and the bigger interest of everyone else related to a forest. So on social media we can find argument from the local people, from celebrities, from forest enthusiasts and also the researchers and also the journalists. And it's kind of messy because everyone have different perspectives, have different evidence. So from my observation I think that one of the strategy to deal with such situation is that we should establish the platform or channel that the journalists and the researchers keep their long term communication so that whenever there are such an event like I shared with you, the journalists can quickly get the knowledge from the researcher and have them raise their voice, have them show their studies, their findings regarding to that topic and we can make the debate less messy. And my second point is that I think that facts matters more than opinions. So for me when I do my reporting I try to be as neutral as possible. I just give out the evidences, the facts and try to reference the opinions to myself. Great. I would like to ask, couldn't be upon but I think we can expand our conversation with our friends in the room. So Rajesh, do you have? There are also a few journalists in the room so please feel free to pitch in and share your perspectives. Meanwhile, Miko in disguise. I am not a journalist but I'd like to say this because I did this when actually Carl and Kun Gay were actually doing the poll Vivo in the last session. So I made a suggestion and I voted that suggestion several times that it gets to be number 13. I was the only one who voted for that using three phones and clearing my cash several times. So processes such as this can be gamified and the powerful and those in doubt were the resources like three phones and the knowledge to clear the catch every time will have their way. Repetitive voices may not represent reality. So we need to be careful with our assumptions, ethodology and interventions. Sometimes what gets into policies, narratives and practices are from those who have the resources to make the noise the loudest. How do journalists such as yourselves deal with this data and information injustice? How do you deal with noise basically? It's a loaded question. Well at least for me, Miko, thanks for prepping me for this question last night during our conversation. Appreciate it. I think the biggest role that we have is to engage. Unfortunately, these conversations with misinformation and noise happen with or without journalists. So I've always felt that it was our jobs to go into the noise and pull out whatever we can from it and try to find folks that are amplifying their voice in unreasonable ways. Again, that's a difficult part of the job and is not the only aspect of journalism that we all engage in. So is that the majority of what we do? No, certainly not. And a lot of journalists that I know of course would prefer to block out the noise because it can get incredibly negative and people can be quite hateful online and that can be quite painful to deal with. But I would say at least something that I've tried to engage with more so is this noise and what's happening online and trying to see where that's coming from because I do completely agree. I think the loudest people in the room are misrepresented as a whole for the majority. And that's most certainly not the case, especially not when it comes to climate reporting or climate opinions. So I think that's a really good question. Again, I don't think journalists inherently have a single answer for it. Right. But at least on a personal level, I think it's better to engage and try to understand the noise than just pretending it's not there. Yeah, I have a quick intervention with that. I think one of the things that I think that was embedded to me yesterday, there was a speaker who was saying that we shouldn't just listen to our like-minded individuals. We should also listen to divergent perspectives because maybe as a scientist or maybe as a journalist, we already have certain biases, certain looking at things in a certain way that we often dismiss those who are not the same with us. So I think it's equally important to really look into and I've mentioned it a while ago, you know, step backwards and really see where this divergent voices are coming from. So maybe there's some merit in listening to them. But yeah, I'm not sure. I'm also not a journalist, but yeah. Kon piyapon, do you have any? Yeah, I think as a journalist, we fundamentally our work force us to open our minds to different voices already. I mean, a professional journalist, I mean, so we listen to all the voices as we can. But what matters is the facts that drive everyone to the solutions. I mean, if you want to find solutions together, of course, like local people on the ground, they complain. But at most, at the end of the day, we need facts or knowledge to clarify that or to verify that and then get everyone on board to find the solutions or the common ground together. That is what we've been doing as a journalist. So I don't think that noise or different voice are the problem because we are here to hear people to say something. But the challenge for me is that whether you got something for people to hear, especially the knowledge and the facts that help everyone get the solutions. And that is something that also fight the emerging issue that Mr. Dwight just addressed, which is about the climate ignorance or climate denial. I mean, down to the point, we use facts to fight. So that's why we have the fact shaking mechanism or the fact shaking process. That is something that I think in this region we lack this body of knowledge to explain to people, to give the answers to people. At least when I ask lately, I just organize the forum. Yeah, that is the different work format that I've been doing in order to open the space for all stakeholders to come together and then to discuss the issues together and then find the solutions together. Even if I ask the El Nino's impact here in Thailand, nobody can confirm me whether or not people already affected by that, but we just learn from the international community that is alive. But for the short term or middle term or long term from now on that people will definitely be facing the impacts from the El Nino. We have no idea yet. We don't know how to tell people how to prepare themselves. And this is quite critical when we look at the government, the new government, the policy makers, if they don't have this kind of idea in mind, that is going to be a big challenge for the people. So if you heard recently about the government's policy, they don't have recognition or perception about natural resources and environmental management compared with other aspects like politics or economics. So that is the challenge for us all. I think get back to the facts and the knowledge that we want the most. And for the social media, for the use of social media actually is not all negative. I've been working on this news agency and I have learned that social media is useful. At least that we have learned that to form our editorial. We don't need a lot of people like we ever did before because of the use of technology and social media. We can get it done with a far less number of people, far less number of journalists and we can still communicate. So it depends on how we deal with this rather. Great. Are there any other burning questions from our friends? Yes, Ajad, Glomjit. Not questions but because you were talking about some ideas on how to give you that long lead time to gather knowledge and get your thoughts together to write a good story. I'm a Glomjit. I'm a former journalist. The nation newspaper some years ago, Environment and Foreign Affairs. And then I also have done a lot of work on the other side of the table. Press officer, communication manager for a host of UN agencies. But one thing just really recently that we found out actually is also in Vietnam. There's a big team doing work on sand mining issues there. You know, it's big news but that I'm going to put that aside because I'm giving a training tomorrow. And I feel like I'm giving away the exercise but because a lot of you won't be here. I'll tell you now but a little bit before that. There was a time 2000-2004-2005 WHO launched a campaign to vaccinate people who need vaccines. You could know now vaccine treatment to get at least half of them to get treated. By that time, they were clearly going to miss the goal. So it was like a year of how do we deal with that? So it was a big communication advocate strategy. And one of the things that they did, which I think really helped was there was monthly briefing to different types of stakeholders. There's a briefing for a press, for CSOs including very important for that particular issue. On HIV was faith-based leaders and organizations. Also with donors with all kinds of things. And that took a year. Very methodical providing briefing how the progress is being made on all fronts. And from the science to everything you can do. So that's one way. And I just gave a training last week, actually just Monday, to media officers and technical. I thought, I would say the most important thing you can do if you're a press person or your researcher or anyone wanting to really get the word out and working with the journalists is really to have a, build a relationship, have a, you know, from long term relationship, engage with, talk to each other, share information, even if there's no real progress, but keep it informed. Here we are, we're at this stage now. Because it does take time. And climate change does take time. And there's so much information out there. But, you know, build that. It could be something very informal. You can be like, we're meeting every Friday, happy hour. I think there used to be a club near here called Front Page. Is it still there? Yeah, and you know, do things like that. And it could be more formal. It could be editorial board meetings, to reporters. My friend created an environmental journalist club that is now being replicated all over the world. He now works with Earth Journalism. So just some ideas. And if you want to know more, you can come tomorrow. Great. You've mentioned happy hours. So we're a few minutes away from networking and cocktails. So we're happy to entertain, I think, one more question from the room. If there are any other burning comments or questions from our panel. I see one of our summer net, sorry, Mekong Think Tank fellows. It's good also to have youth representations here. Yes, go ahead, Bob. My name is Samiyang. I think I have no question, but it's kind of common fit replying back to the question regarding the noise. I think there's two ways to listen based on my experience. One is the fact check. I think the journalists, mostly independent journalists, they know the way how to fact check in terms of the story. So when there's a noise coming from the people, so they fact check. So the fact check could be a balance between a religion and also going back to the question calling out the NGO or the government. So government they know. To get the answer from government, do they, the people saying it truth or not. And also we can go to a search or whatever. So another way is that, so when the first story, we rave up and then second choice that we go to investigate by ourselves. Example. One of my students what I did with maybe Benton and with the another college in Golub. So when we conduct a story in terms of illegal phishing in Malaysia, so we heard a lot of voice from the local people. So we spent the whole week to investigate like in that lace-up around all the area in the lace-up what we spend the whole week from the morning until the evening to gathering all information from those local community, from people, from phishing. So diversity of voice in order to understand and then we go back and fact check and those kinds of information and then conclusion with the government. So these are all the things that I think there's two comments. Okay. Maybe we can go from with the lady from the back. My name is Lamno from someone at 4-on student committee. I would like to ask about, I am not sure about the situation in our country. However, in Vietnam so very big gap between the reality and the information show in social media. For example, two years ago when I applied for the funding for the Euro Commission for improving the hygiene and sanitation system in primary and secondary school. The scientist and also the teacher in the school is very carefully with Zonalit. They asked me many times that. If it was Zonalit, I could not take the picture of current situation of hygiene and sanitation system in my school because as you know, Zonalit in Vietnam and maybe other country have to follow the information orientation from the government. So sometime very big gap between the reality and the current, the real situation and the scientist should also carefully with Zonalit the information in other side however Zonalit we have to write by on the guidance by on the orientation from local government and central government in different way. So as you are Zonalit so how what is the solution for you to fill the gap especially in two channel formal channel and informal channel for communications especially for community social media this is my question. Thank you, any comments from our panel how do you fill in that gap from Vietnam maybe? Well I am an independent journalist so I cannot really fully answer your question but from my experience I now I still have to work with state outlet to get my story published and I think what I do is I try to convince the editor in chef about about the true story behind in reality and and the rest will be the responsible of the editor to work with his or her bosses at a higher level to get the true interview the real story reach to other people so what I am trying to say is that I do agree with Ms. Lamnoy but also I believe that journalism in Vietnam nowadays they are also we they are we do know about the problem and we are trying to find our ways to at the same time deal with the government the direction and at the same time can do our responsibility as a reporter. Great. Before we close Just before we go to that question I just wanted to add also that for example there is the climate change film festival people and this is a climate change film festival that happens every year in February and nowadays we have to think of those things as well not just news outlets and reporters but there are policy makers that come and actually watch those films so if you are doing short films on climate change you actually have a very good chance to see public and policy makers through such avenues as well What do you pokey? Sorry I would like to add one more point that from my experience it's easier to pitch the story if I can I can show that I have some collaboration with the renowned university institution it will be help my story more convincing So getting the right context Just one last before we close I'll try to be quick on this one My name is pokey I work in Summonet as a fellow and I also lead the Summonet Young Professionals Network and within our network we've been doing some social media and communication advertising about the research that Summonet does for a while now and I just want to get a quick thought to the panelists I think the three of you are professional journalists and professional media storytellers but just a quick thought what are your opinions on encouraging or using a more organic social media to inform citizens or bridge between research and policy because just letting you know that for some countries journalists or medias that come out of professional journalists or news media sometimes it's not accurate and I can say this as I'm from Laos and you know the situation in media in Laos and it's quite hopeless to find information that reflects the opinions of people in the society or situations in our countries from journalists professional media we tend to go to Facebook as our Google so just a quick thought from you what are your opinions in using a organic social media approach is that something that we would want to encourage more to develop this kind of approach to bridge between science and policy thank you anyone who wants to answer that organic social media meaning climate scientists, policy makers actually communicating the stories or so organic means not through professional medias like journalists or news anchors but from using social media free content free platforms to post content I feel like it's stacked because if we say it's a great idea then we'll all be out of jobs but actually I think that question should be directed to this side of the room I think policy makers, scientists social media is out there feel free to put in your information there and link with journalists so they can actually re echo and reiterate your message I can see still several hands but how are we with time we're bad in time okay, last one okay, Dr. Edwin I just want to reply on this because formally I used community radio this is the local media it is good for empowering people and community and explaining something very nice but I think we lack of financing for sustainable financing so this must be solved for a while but this is a very good idea about the radio community community radio, thank you very much great, good point my background is actually community radio but Anton I guess I just wanted to really quickly address that I'm gonna put aside the journalism hat and just speak as a storyteller I think organic media in many countries in Southeast Asia makes sense, I think the way that we look at professional journalism and professional media is a very western view I think we look at a society of professional journalists and we take those standards and we do try to apply them here and that can't operate in the vast majority I would say of Southeast Asia nations so I think if researchers were really keen to work in certain countries unfortunately, yeah, the free and independent press is not an option in every country in Southeast Asia so I think exploring those opportunities are important, it is a double edged sword the issue with organic media and social media is that the ethics or the code of standards is not equally distributed across all so I think it's something that's important to look into especially if people here are keen to communicate different climate new climate information but I think it's important and equally dangerous the same way that trying to apply western media standards in other countries is equally just as dangerous as well so I think it's a dreadful double edged sword but certainly important to look into Yes, thank you very much for that concluding note speaking of if the panel would allow me, if Rajesh would also allow me I think just to wrap it all up I think the challenge really is finding human interest story that will make public be interested in the stories and another point is finding a way or a mechanism to actually communicate climate science and climate information in a more approachable in a more retweetable sorry if I can say that matter, speaking of which I would like to invite I think our colleagues from Tofu Creatives Des who actually I mean their role is also actually communicating the things that we've been discussing the whole day so Des would you like to briefly talk about the things that we've discussed in this panel and also on the wrap up panel okay for this one so we heard to include solutions and reporting to close the gap between policymakers and communities include media in their research process have a platform for media and scientists to have continuous communication listen to divergent perspectives use the facts to fight localizing information and the big question also how to deal with data and information and justice and also the message on the importance of building relationships thank you Doi with that, thank you very much to our panel, let's give them a warm round of applause and thank you everyone I would like to pass the mic to Charming