 Bandits strike again in Zamfara State as they abduct students in the hometown of Governor Matawali meanwhile. Five of the abducted students of Government Day Secondary School Kaia have regained freedom. And the presidency says Amnesty International has no legal right to exist in Nigeria. All this is plus politics and I am Mary Anacorn. Bandits have again abducted children in Zamfara State. Now the victims at this time are students of the Government Day Secondary School Kaia in Maradun Local Government area of the state. The state government had shot down schools across the state following the abduction of 73 students and also they have imposed a dusk to done curfew across the state. The good news is five of these abducted students have been returned. Well joining us to discuss the issue of abductions across our schools is political technocrats Daya Kairi and to be joining us later is Colonel Samson Edet retired. Thank you very much Mr. Kairi for joining us. And how are you long time? How are you doing? I'm fine thank you. So it's interesting looking at the number of students that have been abducted yet again in Zamfara State. 73 good news is five according to reports five of them were returned by the bandits. And I mean one would want to be a fly on the wall to understand why just five of these students were returned. But that's a conversation that needs to be had with you know security operatives. But I spoke into many educationists I spoke into security operatives and experts and they all have talked continuously you know asked questions as to why schools and you know the education in the Northwest is being targeted. So I'm trying to understand maybe you can tell us from a political perspective why these bandits seem to be continuously going to schools and let's not forget the NDA also is a training academy which is a school. Why do you think that they're attacking school children? Yeah let me first of all say even for returning five of those children is still no good news. Even by the time they return all of them is still no good news because already they have caused some kind of psychological distress within our society and this thing has been reoccurring all of the time without nobody looking for how to tackle this problem. Now why are they attacking school children? Just because they know that these children are very vulnerable to their attack and they know that because they are children the appearance you want to come after them and pay whatever they ask them to pay immediately. And to that extent they would rather want to go for those that are very vulnerable and that also make people to stand up immediately to want them to pay the kind of ransom they are asking for. Now we know that these school children that were abducted were I think initially there were 91 school children that were abducted in Niger states before the Zamfara situation happened and they were recently released because thousands of millions of Naira was paid for their release. But where I'm going with this is that ransom payment is the bone of contention here. Many have wondered how we can win the war against insurgency, against banditry, against terrorism if we one way or the other are the ones funding it. For example you just made mention that they target these children because they know that their parents would want to move heaven and earth to make sure that these monies are paid and so that they can get their loved ones out. And so really if we are as a country saying that we're fighting terrorism how are we doing that if we continue to pay these ransom and on the other hand you cannot say you will not pay any ransom because your loved one is in the custody of bandits so why what are we really doing? Yes you see it is always good for us to face the facts and it's a pity that most governments and especially these government when they see anybody saying the truth they see that person as an enemy. I'm not the enemy of government but rather I will say the truth because Nigeria belongs to every one of us. Two questions you have asked now one there is no how this banditry will stop in as much as it is seemingly a user will seemingly looking as if some people are just being enriched through kidnapping and then give you their ransom and I will come I will come to it fully. Now Meleifa former deputy governor of Etc Bank came out sometimes to talk about this banditry in Nigeria. Barajie the chairman of NPDP then led the PDP of that period to APC during 19 I think 1915 election also addressed a press conference as a gaseous issue. Let Madam Taraba say the same thing. Of recent a security expert mentioned some things sometimes they go man pop or cna also mentioned some things even let the barter say this that any government that cannot quench any form of banditry and insurgency in its political environment within 24 or 48 hours seen as an accomplice to what extent as this government arrested any of these guys and punished them rather rather the moment this they said they are now repentant you say let us absorb them back to the society so how do you think this will not continue there are not a lot of people out there they will seek them all this is a good business since they have seen it as a good business then they will continue to be drink to be to be to be perpetrated this nefarious activities within our political environment let me come in there let me I'm so sorry let me come in there one second let me come in there for a second hold on hold on hold on let me come in there when you say that when you bring up the issue of ransom payment and us fueling or financing you know terrorism in the country let's use the kaduna state example where the governor has said that no ransoms should be paid we have seen the back lashes that he's gotten we've seen that people still have to pay they go behind the backs of government and security agencies to pay now there are also people who say to us that the police allegedly would tell them that it's best that they pay so that they can get their loved ones out but when we keep making I mean from what you said it looks like government has failed in its job in dealing with this issue of insecurity but can you blame government when for example an elder five says do not pay ransom because you're funding terrorism and then the people that themselves go ahead and pay for their family members to be released really can we just solely put the blame on the government and security agencies what is the role of government what is the role of government are stipulated by netting netting no concern as amended to ensure webbing of the people economy webbing of the people and to ensure security of life and properties when this thing is not insured what do we call that it's total government failure you're talking about air refine is it working the talk did you not say the other time that you went to centers of people in charge did you not say it did you not mention it like you want to say the other time when you say when the president was saying it was ready to change the security chiefs the other time and people were clamoring that the president you change the security chiefs i was among the few that i was saying no it is not about changing security chiefs it is about people in government people are the aim of affairs changing their philosophy as regards how to sort out this incessant kidnapping and the and the first full obtaining of money from the people so either we like it or not why the government is not working in stock please stop it and so who are the people paying me behind do they want to tell us that those five children were released just like that two two it is i time that those in the aim of affairs that is the president of the country the governors of the states the chairman of local governments should rise up to their abilities now because all these things stops at their table on how to stop them because they are all operating within their political space and the moment the moment they cannot stop it then the government has failed no more no less government has failed can we really say government has failed when the the army is doing its bit the police is doing its bit let's not also forget that we have our soldiers overstretched and they're not just in the northwest we have them in the northeast we have them in the southeast they have them in the south south and and if we were to number these soldiers they're not as many as you would want them to be and and i remember speaking to someone last week who said that we even have some of our soldiers you know a detachment of them working with you know the au and and the echo us so we obviously have um not enough soldiers to do the job but can you really say that they have failed because it seems that they're doing what they can but of course the obvious question is is that enough but my other question is um i remember i think between june of between june of 2011 and the end of march of 2020 um apparently i think there's estimated um 13.4 million people have been abducted um or rather 18.4 million uh dollars has been paid for uh abductions you know all over either in the northwest or in the northeast um and in other parts of nigeria to these bandits and and and i was thinking about it because um this is a loss of money going into buying guns and we keep asking questions about guns that are coming in the other day i was watching a program i did uh about four years ago on the radio we were talking asking questions about um guns that were found coming into nigeria some that were stopped in south africa another that was traced to come in from turkey but nobody has been able to come up with a tentative report saying that those guns were traceable to mr ab or c it literally has died down so let's talk about the nitty gritty of fighting terrorism in this country if we are just trying to stop bandits and we're not looking for who's bringing in these guns whether it be for banditry whether it be for um the elections or whatever reason if we're not able to probe that can we really go forward in fighting this insecurity this hydroheaded monster that we're facing every other day and that is exactly what i'm trying to say uh i you see number one your first your first question on one platform a week or two weeks ago immediately after the apple stands in afghanistan i was a particular platform and i pressed our Nigerian army i pressed our security forces for the gallantry they have shown we Nigerians especially in facing these so-called bandits but unfortunately they are not well equipped unfortunately they are not well remunerated unfortunately they are not empowered properly unfortunately they are not even being taken good care of the way Bokoara means are taking good care of their soldiers that is what to if you're talking about gun running you and i do we have that temerity especially in terms of economy prowess to bring in guns and ammunition into this country no it is these so-called leaders and when i say leaders i mean both political leaders economic leader whatever leader we have that are bringing in these things how many of them as the government apprehended they have seen there was even a time that the president came on here to say look all these guns and the ones that are being used that were used somebody used in Libya and all that that doesn't know how they are finding their ways into into Nigeria i don't forget it that for a very long time the border the border in southwest in semen have been blocked why borders in the north were opened so where are these things coming in from where so these are issues that we need to look at properly to be able to know who are who are behind all this again but recently but recently the dss has actually alluded to the fact that they have information which remember the the former retired armed force officer was on a channel talking about the funders yes and and of course the dss had also said that they were of that information but that they're waiting for a go-ahead from the president himself to be able to investigate so of course how long have you forgotten that they said they have they have some 400 400 people in their custody who they claim have been sponsoring this people are you also aware that Saudi dubai dubai or Saudi Arabia sends some names down to Nigeria as regards to people that are that are that are funding this people what have they done with those snakes so the people may are not doing anything then you are giving we Nigerians we are giving us that idea that yes you can be you can be held as an accomplice in all the things that are happening because it is only when a thief is stealing and the head of the house knows that that guy is stealing and he's not doing anything if he continues stealing not until when he or she is being punished he will he won't stop stealing and that is only what we are saying in Nigeria today let's talk about the schools again Amnesty International recently tweeted and described the latest incident in Zamfara state as disturbing in fact i'd like to quote them directly they said that the attacks on schools and abduction of school children are war crimes so i want to ask you does it really qualify as a war crime are we at war in Nigeria right now yes when you see when you see all these people shooting sporadically going to capture a whole a whole village a whole town a whole local government and hosting their flags there another what do we call that it is war it is that some people have decided to declare war on Nigeria a war declared on a part of Nigeria is war declared on the whole country because before you know it by the time they are they are successful there they will move down down south and even we have been seeing three days of it here so it is total war whatever their dream can be classified as a guerrilla warfare because these these people are non-nigerians most of them are not so some of them they were captured when they speak those people they were speaking with i say their their song is not that of the Nigerian Fulani or that of Nigerian Nigerian or that of Nigeria or whatever you know they are they are all from Senegal, Putagala, Nailan, Bamaku and all that you know so it's war Amnesty International is very very right as Gawa they have said and because Amnesty International is an international organization that are looking for peace to be everywhere so that they have a saying whatever is happening they can they can make their comments it's only that they cannot act but they can make their comments and then advise appropriately. Talking about acting here it brings me back to the question I always ask you know what is what what is the challenge of government because like I said earlier on the bulk stops at the table of the government whether it be state or federal and and you see in the case of Benway where there's been a back and forth between the presidency and Governor Autumn and you know both governments pointing fingers at each other so I'm asking what is the challenge in fighting this issue of terrorism and fighting against these bandits and of course Boko Haram is on the other hand and we also have non-state actors creeping up every other day and those also have to be handled what do you think is the problem and why have we not been very successful it's just one challenge it's just one challenge that we have people that are concerned and never never ready to say the truth because they know when they say the truth some people might speak beans what exactly do you mean by say the truth what what is the truth in this regard I mean because we all see cleanly that we have a group of people who are armed disguised as certain groups of people only to perpetrate violence so what what again is the truth that we do not know in terms of truth in terms of how did these people get into our country truth in terms of I repeat how did these people find themselves in our country but we all know that we have porous borders in Nigeria that's not that's not who brought the main who brought who brought this people in for some purposes only God knows and the purpose we can we can ask we can ask Barajie the leader of MPDP what he said the other time is state that in one APC leadership not to bring these people into the country that when you bring them into the country it'll be hard for you to send them away Mr Kaede you're alleging you're alleging that Mr President's political party is responsible for the terrorism that we're experiencing in the form of banditry in Nigeria you're saying that the sitting the sitting government which is the APC government is responsible for the terrorism that we as a country are experiencing right now Barajie said it Barajie said it in his in his press conference it's in the public play he said it to everybody he said it to everybody and again and again the moment the moment we have not been punishing these people we have not been arresting them we have not been able to showcase their faces then what are we talking about it defies complicity it amounts to complicity madam Talaba also said it the late madam Talaba said it he said if this government is not careful it will speak base about so many so many of these security breaches in this country he said it it's in the public it's in the public leder it's not a hidden fact let's talk about we are the 400 we are the 400 people that will be that that they said that are funding these people why they find it difficult why they find it difficult to prosecute them why they find it difficult to bring them to the glove the people these are issues let's not say the truth so that the devil could be ashamed okay it is high time that Nigeria's Nigerians experience security in their on their fatherland let's talk about this business becoming very a bit too lucrative because let me think outside the box because this is generating much money I give you statistics 18.3 million dollars not Naira this seems to be very lucrative what's to who's to say that other people who may not necessarily be these bandits don't take advantage of the situation and join the business how do we try to make sure that this doesn't become something that is a playing field for all and sundry yes no that's about it that some other people that are not even supposed to be part of these bandits are also practicing the quality of tenants by force through kidnapping I mean we have seen we have heard of the instances whereby some people will go and kidnap themselves and then they be asking for ransom and they are being caught here and there no doubt about what we have been seeing but because the thing has now become very lucrative there's no way these bandits we want to leave it until when until when the leadership decides to say the truth and face it scaly and then work the talk work the talk not only when we start to do that it will continue and as I always tell tell leadership the leadership of this country that it is tight time that we we we we work on the path of truth I mean nobody nobody is going to polish anybody for saying the truth yes you could be ashamed for your wife but along the line people will say yes we are all human we are all human and it's normal for anybody to err it is for us to now forgive such a person let our leadership come out and say the truth yes we have done this we have done this we have done that we are sorry but now let us join hands together to put an end to this is do you know the kind of a fatty sin is having on us a lot of investors are refused coming to Nigeria I am one of those and this thing is affecting people are never ready to invest money again in Nigeria because the place is not secure they don't know how they will come to Nigeria they don't know how safe they are whether if they come to Nigeria so this is a big issue it is also affecting the employment rates it is affecting our direct for investment it is affecting our GDP okay I mean these are the multiplier effects of these circumstances that we are refused to come since all these days now quickly before we wrap up because we're almost out of time the governor has imposed the dusk to Dunn curfew in the state do you think this might help to at least push back on these terrorists again this is obviously going to affect businesses it's going to affect schooling and already children in both the northeast and northwest have been I've had their you know education calendar messed up because of the kidnappings and the abductions so what does this leave the education system in that part of the the country number why does curfew does curfew affect bandits bandits don't don't follow rules and regulations they don't know what laws are but maybe that would also help the security agents to be able to track who's who because if the normal people are staying at home then you can tell who's now even even when people are not saying I hope if you want if they are serious to track them then we track them have you seen our police tracking installing installing for before I've seen our policemen tracking installing phone stalling in Lagos and they dragged it down to Wenugung about that so who is saying who is saying without coffee I told the agency we know we thought without coffee then we work if they are ready to work the thing is our leadership should now track the parts of the truth no more no less okay well I want to say thank you Mr. Daya Kaede is a political technocrat thank you for joining us on in the show today thanks for having me and all right thank you for joining us on the show all right we'll take a quick break and when we come back the presidency is attacking Amnesty International over critical reports what in the report we get to find out after this break