 Okay, today is October 26th 2020 and we're here to talk about mycroft That's what we talk about every day So we have One more week left in our pseudo sprint here Or we actually we were gonna talk about whether or not we were gonna close out this last sprint and start a new one That gives us two weeks until our retreat Which is definitely going to be a two-week sprint of its own or maybe two one-week sprints. We'll see how that goes, but Does anybody have any feedback about The current sprint and the current activities that you're on are we pretty much wrapped up with them? Or are we still in the middle of of the sprint 17? Chris very I'll start with you since you've got the longest term project right now Yeah, so the tagger is in test right now and it's ready to be banged on there's still some things The code that's running in test right now so needs to be code reviewed before I can actually cut a release, but it's out there for playing So really I'm at a point now where You know, what do we want me doing next will help me to pick some more? You want to pick up the what we think is the most important thing to Improve upon with the tagger that's missing with it right now, or do I want to move on do Something with the prototypes so And of course I'll do whatever bug fixes anybody finds as they test the tagger but That's kind of what's the plan for getting this rolled out in other words How do we actually get devices uploading to the new URL and is the new URL Production operational So first I need to get this So first we need to test it once we're tested or happy with it how is it working in tests I need to cut a release Deploy it to production And then once it's there We can start pointing Core to using it right now. There's plenty of files out there to be tagged So But yeah, that's that's certainly a next step after we deploy this is Making sure the core hits the new endpoint as far as uploading the file to the new place Yeah, I'd like to get that I'd like to get to that point for sure, you know, because then it's really in production We're actually using it and I can start using my kids and you know all the the people in and out of my house to who are largely Women to you know start uploading to wakewards and that sort of thing So yeah, I can that can be the next thing I do that I can Start working on core on the changes to core needed to hit this new endpoint Okay, so I think that's that'll be the next priority is in a getting this integrated. So Test I want everybody banging on this thing You know this week won't take a lot of time, but let's get some get the christen feedback for all its hard work he's put in here and Let's get that Pull requests reviewed and approved and deployed to production and Yeah, let's get this let's get the system fully online before we move on to the next thing So that'll be There's also a couple of sides like Well unrelated stuff that if you if you have any spare time you could you can jump back to like a bit of upgrade Meta most and yeah, so they ask a review and that sort of stuff Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's where I am so I mean I like we I could spend a one-week sprint cleaning up And getting this deployed to production and some other things and then we could have a one-week sprint to plan for our summit or I could spend a week doing this and come up with something else to do once this is done, but yeah, okay, well Prioritized getting this deployed to production and Let's have a talk before you run out of things to do You know your next priorities because I've got a list of priorities that they're just not in front of me at the moment I mean we speak three times a week, so I'm sure I won't be twiddling my phone for too long. Yeah Yeah late as guess mentioned you've Upgrade and those sorts of things. So yeah, I need to do yeah Okay, great. So guess What do you think as far as this print goes or how are you? Yeah, so the I think as I've said way too many times lingua franca has been It's been progressing. Well But it's getting closer every time so we've done the the old release and Just had a few changes to put in before doing the point three release The the bugs in the skills that are in progress at the moment Haven't haven't seen them in quite some time and I fixed some other issues Related to you know test bleeding into each other. So I'm kind of Thinking I might just bump those for a minute until they resurface if they resurface because that might have They might have actually been dressed by these other bug fixes There's the See I stuff around handling simultaneous point comp runs Which isn't bit of an unknown I think I have an idea of what is needed there, but So it could be a five-minute job or it could be a day job And Then there's a couple of A lot of priority things hold that have been held over since the 2008 release Around Updating mimic and in core and generating you mark one image That kind of stuff so there's You know things that if they didn't happen right now wouldn't be the end of the world But I think it's good to clear them off the plate So yeah, I can easily spend another week on this In short Okay, I saw some chatter going back and forth about some the Minecraft skill marketplace and And other you know potential marketplaces and that sort of thing I took a look at that and my thought was that I Understand Jarvis's you know objection like hey, well you support this, you know awful feature why not support this other awful feature? and And my answer to that is hey, we totally should not support that awful feature so I Think that we should discuss removing the ability to install arbitrary stuff from the Microsoft skill marketplace and you know if we want to have a utility that lets you install arbitrary code off a GitHub then that's fine, but we'll just call it, you know Unsupported library installer or something like that, you know, but it's it's definitely not part of our marketplace You know, it's it's sort of a misnomer to say that You know, you can just install any piece of code and it's you know It's part of our marketplace because it's not right the marketplace is about putting out good quality stuff that we have at least some modicum of you know oversight over And you know, like I said, I'm totally you know, I get it. It should be an open system We want to be open and I'm totally fine with there being more than one store But we need to be very clear about the provenance of the software that people are installing and If people are installing it from some third-party service no matter what that service is You know, we have no responsibility for that, you know, and then we need to make that clear So that's why I'm advocating for Removing the ability to just install arbitrary stuff off a github through the skill marketplace command line Just that's it. That's my thought. I don't know if that's the right solution But I think that's that's the thought process, you know behind it You know, maybe the right That needs to be addressed head-on, right? I mean I can tell you as a developer of iPhone and Android games That when my first game hand-to-poo was rejected by the iPhone store My response was why would you do such a thing when I'm able to discover fart apps? And their response was yes, and we have enough of those two So the question become how do we? encourage people to contribute while maintaining control over Some subset of all the skills that are out there and maybe it is the case that we have to have two separate stores a mycroft blessed Endpoint and the wild West Endpoint, but certainly we don't want to discourage our contributors from contributing Fart applications using my crop store. I agreed. We should have lots of fart applications There is a thought skill so say Yeah, so I so Michael and I've been having some conversations about this relative to our monetization strategy the Minecraft as a company and my crop as a project cannot continue to exist at the largest of investors and You know, I heard Amazon's early days described as Amazon as a charity that just run in the for the benefit of its customers at the Expense of its investors, right? And that's from a Wall Street analyst that thought Amazon was a dog in the late 90s. So that guy is probably Probably regretting it at this point, but the point being You know, we need to have a strategy where we get paid and so The mechanism that we're considering and I think we mentioned this last week too is a mechanism whereby For give me a second to gather my thoughts here A mechanism whereby we develop a paid tier and all of our existing customers are installed into the paid tier For some period of time, you know, 90 days or 180 days free of charge and then the meeting All of our existing customers to pay customers as part of the paid tier You're able to install and deploy apps through salini. So if you're looking for something to do, there's a job for you Chris fair Through salini or through the the police interface that are approved and are part of the micro skills the official micro skills abstraction the skills that are part of that process are You know the developers will receive 25% of the gross revenue from the Mycroft paid tier Divided according to the utility of the skill and you know the devil's in the details. How what is the utility of the skill, right? Is it the number of times people query it because you know, my kid can do a sample Spark skill, you know, and make sure that it's at the top of the two One individual But but you know, we might have the 25% of the revenue that's flowing into the into the paid skills abstraction according to the utility of the skills and it could be solving your Ten is as simple as you know, if it skills been deployed for a certain period of time and hasn't scored No, then it gets booted out of our and into our free tier, right? The free tier I think is a free-for-all right people can do whatever the hell they want responsible for the encryption, we're not But because all of our users are in the pain here on day one It's more sense to push it into the page paid customers and we have free customers and as an added benefit when people use it you get paid, right? I think that that solves a couple of the problems, but I think that the broader Thinking on that method of solving the problem is that we want to create economic incentives Josh you're about two steps too far for your microphone I'm on my phone It's good. It's been cutting out Oh, okay. Sorry Okay the The Sorry, let me get back to make sure right here I'll be back it up but the broader thinking there is that we want to develop as part of our paid tier a series of economic incentives for The developers and a community members to behave in the way that we want them to behave not the types of Thumbs-up sums down arbitrary rulemaking that they use in the in the Apple App Store. Yeah, and so You know, I think we always want to make it possible if Joe wants to install a fart skill on his Minecraft device for him to do that But we want to set up a system whereby for a vast majority of our community that part skill is You know not part of their everyday existence and so You know, I think that the way I just described it as a good first brush at that But I think we need to write it up circulate it through the community and then you know I was a bit stunned yes about your post Where you ask the community for feedback into our roadmap and you got crickets Like nothing not a single comment on that and so I don't know if that's because people are unengaged or because they just trust us but Let's go ahead and circulate some kind of an economic model and go from there and that way if somebody creates a terrible skill It goes in the free tier the free tier ideally as far fewer users in the paid tier And they can just go out there and clutter up the free skill score all we want But if people want a skill store that works well where the skills are guaranteed to not you know root your device and You know send all your personal information to the internet They would want to be on our paid tier and the ways of getting that are number one pay us number two buy a device from us And then you know for people who are interested in contributing in a significant way if they want to take the money that they're making from Creating an awesome skill that people are using and getting their 25 cents on the dollar from our our paid tier and use it to pay for their membership Good on them, right? So if you can make three bucks a month on people using your skills and your skills should be self-supporting, right? It pays remember skill that would break your device on the marketplace. I just got to say that I mean there's there's got to be some you know sure it's on the free tier But if some you know this is going out to 5,000 people and somebody goes with a free train clicks on a skill and breaks their device That's bad. Yeah, I think I think I would I think we owe it to the community that any Endpoints that we Support that are on our domain We can't speak to skills in the wild, but if they come from a minecraft source We need to do at least our minimal due diligence to make sure it's not a skill that simply fires up Takes your key store sends it to the cloud and provides no capabilities or functionality So And even if it did we would want to question why it needs to send the key store to the cloud So I think it's incumbent upon us to review every skill that we're going to Host however, I don't know that that means every skill we host finds its way into some sort of Premier category location. I think we're all clear on that But I just want to call out that I don't think in any way We should ever allow a skill on a minecraft hosted site that hasn't been vetted minimally Yeah, I mean if they want to if we want to do community vetting for that stuff, it's great But you're looking at the entire team Right and we don't have time to review. We don't have every time to review There's already thousands of skills out there. We can't review all the code for all those skills without being paid and so on the free tier of the service if somebody wants to deploy a skill that roots the device and You know sends out passwords and somebody else installs that skill right and runs it you know, I Got a my computers packed with with malware, right? Like I have whole folders of it I have trouble I have trouble I have trouble thinking my stuff to Google because I have all folders full of malware That's intended for you know security research and penetration testing if I want to run that stuff and send my credits to China I Can't I think I can't you can't protect users from themselves Yeah, my wife would love to speak with you because she has the same problem But that's not my point my point is I think if it's a micro hosted endpoint We need to do our due diligence and if we have thousands of them out there and we haven't vetted them Then we need to remove them and that I'm I don't I don't really think we should be putting Unvetted things on our site. It just doesn't seem like it doesn't we don't have we don't have anything Unvetted in in the marketplace just to be clear like judges just talking about things out there in the in the wild Into my mind the two sides. I don't know if we how much we want to have this whole conversation at the moment Or if you were about to suggest we move on So maybe before I make a comment. I'll let you Go ahead finish your comment and then yeah, I think I just I see that I see the two I Think we we do need to have a minimum level of Responsibility because I think even if it is the end users, you know Their role and and they went and they went and installed something without reviewing the code Like the vast majority of our users and not actually Python code is you know they're they're just people that want to click a button and have a thing run and They will do that and then if something bad happens they'll blame my croft and my croft will be you know They'll be in the news about you know, this so-called secure and private voice assistant is is Completely the opposite, you know, it's sending it's sending data off to Russia whatever so I do think I didn't we have a minimum responsibility for things that are That we provide a simple mechanism to do like I don't think it's a bad thing that people can Go through some kind of manual process to install things from from places like github But I think we needed to make it we need to make it difficult enough that you can't just click a button to do it So so personally I see that the two tiers being You know anything that's listed in the marketplace has at least been security reviewed Anything that is verified as you know good and working and has the micro tick of approval as the you know The the premium tick of approval We've we've verified that it that the functionality works as intended that you know It handles error messages gracefully like it you know it meets a particularly UX standard So the minimum standard base purity and then the premium standard being UX and and usability and stuff and The the second tier is very clearly behind a paywall Right because we cannot afford to do that for free because we do not charge We do not spy on our customers, right? the way and in order to fund that the way that that that well Let's just be honest. I mean this is published, but whatever the way that Google does, right? And and Then I would argue that Amazons is already behind a paywall because you basically have to have Amazon Prime in order for Echo Not to suck so they have some huge percentage of their I mean you are paying a monthly fee with Amazon It's like 14 bucks a month, right? So, you know that stuff has to be at behind a paywall because we have to make payroll So the only thing we're really having a discussion about is what does the free tier look like? Well, and I think and how do we manage it? For payments and stuff. I think it makes sense for us to look at, you know We're doing some some user interviews at the moment Chris Johnny and I are doing some user interviews to look at what is the value that people get out of Mycroft or want to get out of my Crofts and and then trying to align trying to align our payment structure Our fee structure in line with with the value that people get so I think there's a whole lot of work we can do around there to to Understand that better and to align them better Yeah, I agreed and I'll just you know just because I want to get the final word in here I think we need to distinguish between What it is that we put the Mycroft brand on and what it is that we allow people to do with their hardware And I think that Ken is absolutely right, you know anything that we put our brand on Anything that we endorse in any way that comes from us from one of our URLs Needs to be something that we can stand behind on the other hand, you know our our ideals of being an open platform of being an open source company I think, you know Support the idea of well, we don't have to be the gatekeepers of all software, right? But just because But that doesn't mean, you know, we have to allow people to do whatever they want on our system, right? Our system is the marketplace the that is our name. That is our reputation. That is what we have That's what's valuable to us, right? So so if people want to install a You know a third-party store You know, I think that's fine, but then somebody else is standing behind that store not us and You know, and we can talk, you know, some more about, you know, the system architecture behind well, okay Well, how do we support multiple stores? What happens during updates and things like that, you know? but But yeah, so that's that's how I see it, but we'll hash this out in more detail And make sure that we can, you know, service both of those ideals of protecting our brand and And being a an open company Okay, so moving on Oh Ken, hey, I heard that you were working on a cool project. How's it going? Hey, how's it going? Thanks for remembering me Okay, here's that's going so I've got two pull requests out there one is against core I did some significant refactoring of the Last version of the code so I have two pull requests out there One is for the skill, which is just the init file and some clean up there and refactoring The second is for core and it is in the enclosure directory where this stuff belongs Now that being said my question would be a how do we coordinate a release between two different? repositories like this because The kivy image if it goes out with one, but not both will not work so how do we coordinate that and then the second thing is the Code that I've the two pull requests I put together Are not the complete story because I'm not quite sure where to stick the executable We now have taken on the responsibility of releasing an executable Called vf control underscore USB, which is how we communicate with our hardware So the question I have is a is this the first time we ran across such an issue where we actually have an external executable that is part of our Product and if it's not the case, where do we stick them? And if it is the case, where should I stick it? Also It would be nice if we could include the bug fix that I put together for the core kivy display code line regarding the bus timing bring-up issue in conjunction with these two pull requests, which is the new enclosure code and The a knit code that makes use of them Now that being said What was interesting is that when I Submitted my pull request created it about 15 minutes later. I got a email With a bunch of pep issues in it regarding a bunch of lint like stuff Which is insignificant. I mean there's about 30 of them and I haven't gone through them yet There's oh, there's a trailing white space. Oh, there's two empty lines instead of one One of them was even oh, there's an empty line at the end of the file So I'll fix those My question is why didn't I see that the last time I did my pull request since I Tend to code the same way and the same issues should have been present And if it's because we've instituted something between then and now My question is what happens if somebody in the future tries to fix a bug? Are they now going to get a Lint error message that says this thousand line piece of code has all of these Lint issues and your one-line bug fix will no longer be accepted until you fix the entire file or What's going on here is my question. So two questions number one Where do I stick executables and number two? Why am I getting a bunch of pep lint error messages when I never did before? I want the the linting thing to be part of something we discuss during our summit Because I want to come out of the summit with a this is how what we're going to start enforcing From a pull request point of view whether it be, you know black or pilot or however we do it and how that's done So I'd like to table that until They'll go through without this issue being resolved well I Assume that what's happened with with this pull request as opposed to the previous one is the past one You just added a line or something right whereas this one you've added new files And so I think the way Yeah, no, this is definitely different behavior than it was two weeks ago With a Travis a for a little bit there Chris This doesn't seem to be this just seems to be Expected behavior. Okay Is it expected behavior? Is that correct? So the email is actually from pep right pep 8 speaks Yeah, come on. I've never seen this before I Well, it was the other PR on microf core or was it on a on a you know, which PR are you talking about? We're two one on microf core and one on skill microf Well, it's a scale repository, but it's probably doesn't have the same check. Yeah Yeah, so that's that's the other part which which I think we'll also Because the last The last pull requests had both code in core and code in skill And I didn't get I can go have a look at your other PR your old PR and I'll Message you We can submit this pull request without the pep Lint issues being addressed and nothing will preclude it from working, correct Nothing will preclude it from working, but I would prefer that we address the linting issues that that's fine I'm becoming more Used to these sorts of things moving forward. I I do believe it's a bit of fascist behavior But I'd be be getting conditioned to that this year. So that's not a problem Okay, so what I want to do is is decide on a standard and then give you know internal developers and community developers the You know the rules and the way that they can set their IDE up set their environment up set their workflow up So that they always abide by that, you know, that it's not a Hooks you can do to like right now I've got pretty cool It will run these linters on my code before I even commit it so that the chances of it failing in the PR process are minimal, but again, this is all stuff I want to I want to go over when we're all talking together and kind of come up with Something that Chris can present to the community I get that but my point is you guys are looking at this from a different perspective than I am You're looking at it like how to impose your will on the community And I'm looking at it like is this going to be an issue if somebody fixes a bug in a big file And is it going to discourage them and they're gonna say I'm not gonna fix all that crap Just to fix this one line or will it not kick in in that case Yeah, and that's part of the discussion Okay, so I'll take that as a yes. All right. So anyway, again, the last hanging chat as we like to say in Florida is What do you want me to do with this executable? I can't ride it off because I have no idea what that is We don't have any we don't have any pride. Well, I Can't think of any proprietary executables that we run at all Is that correct? We don't have any Like exe files that we run not exe is obviously in Linux But any executables that we run that we don't build from source. Is that a true statement? No third-party libraries. Nothing like that It seems like it's something that would be part of the enclosure then Yeah, and I think that there's nothing fancy inside of it. I think it's a utility for convenience of developers with the xmos chip It all that does is send It's what we rely on To change the volume to set the leads you right so we need it Yeah, I think we could replace it with with our own library of routines that just send commands over the USB to the xmos chip Right. Uh Yeah, in other words, you're saying we could rewrite vf control USB. Yeah, I don't I think it's I don't think there's much To it. I think it's a pretty lightweight application It's not it's not certainly not a driver or anything like that. I think I think it's pretty lightweight I don't think it's something we should do immediately I think we should stick the executable in there and then look into what's required into you know To make it just a library that we can call inside python All right, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm going to include it in the core Pull request. I'm gonna stick it in Enclosure and I'm going to point all hard-coded paths to in enclosure Exception to my solution that's good Are we shoving an executable in to be on every installation regardless of whether it's got this enclosure or not This feels like something should be part of the enclosure recipe build process build process. Yeah, yeah How do I get these files there? Well, so this and we've been trying to get all of our Build recipes Well, I mean it depends on on what solution we go up and go within the end like if we go with Release to not being able to answer this fundamental question Well, my answer my answer would be that personally would be we have a repo called micro dash devices And we've been using a system called Deboss which which builds images and so we've been building up these recipes to automatically build images, but Currently that you know, that's that's used for like that's how I build the Qt images We the Qt the images are a slightly manual build with Using the product high craft instructions There's a pie craft recipe, you know, that's it's in progress, but it's you know, it's not a priority at all So it hasn't hasn't been finished Other repos that do is exactly the same thing Or that have instructions on how to do exactly the same thing a different way So, okay, but obviously we haven't corrected it yet because my build still has mark one artifacts on it How does that happen? Because that's in micro core Uh-huh, and and we want to pull those out Yeah, it's wrong. Ken you are you are correct. That is wrong. It should not be that way It is intended to be fixed and that's fine But my question is still remains Annoying as it may be and you'll probably notice I changed my icon to colombo So the point is Where would you like me to place these files so they will be included in the next kivvy build image? For kivi then I would say What's the name of the repo Chris Mycroft display so mycroft display is where I would stick the new remote branch called sj201 rev b Well that mycroft display repo was really just And then is it also where I would stick the changes to the Skill mark two dash pie Does it have a clone of that repository as well? Or are you simply saying that's where you'd like this executable file to find its way? I think the executable file should find its way right now and the way things are right now I I say should go in the mark 2 Recipe repository which I think is just called enclosure mark 2 Wonderful if somebody can email me a link to that. I will get vf control you as the pull requested into there Where would you like the mark to? sj201 Hardware drivers and abstract based classes so that they find their way into the next kivi build That's a harder question because I think that all the kivi stuff is often a Separate branch that has not been I contend if we're planning on pushing this product out to customers within 30 days We need to be answering these questions now Do we need to have a separate meeting offline after this one to Button this down or what we're going to talk about this during our retreat. What's that? I thought we were gonna talk about this during the summit We definitely need to talk about reorganizing or at least maybe organizing for the very first time Skills versus core versus enclosures and what all that means because apparently it's just a hot mess But I agree with Ken. We need to have an answer for what to do right now. He needs to This so I think the answer is it doesn't matter Ken because we don't have a system If we know which which which Version of the mark 2 that we're talking about then we can point you to all the right repos We just you know, this is this is part of the problem when we when we have qt and kivi and and all these things flying around and And then pantahub, you know all this new system and and not knowing You know, obviously that's gonna include either qt or kivi But like but then it's gonna have its own build process as well, and we don't know what that looks like yet Like with all these pieces up in the air I can't just tell you live on the chat where where it should go without knowing which which version it needs to go in So I can tell this is important enough that we should have a meeting tomorrow and resolve it. I Thought I heard Derek alluding to actually sending out devices with images later this week I don't understand how we can leave this hanging beyond that point. I Thought we said those weren't going out then to this week Yeah, we're not going to send those out the end of this week for Part of this this is part of the reason But but I agree. I mean, I don't think we should wait till tomorrow. I think after this call You guys should get on the line and hash something out But I contend that I still think that the answer is it doesn't matter just put it somewhere that it works Because Here's what I'm gonna say Then here's the quick and dirty solution Somebody's gonna email me the link where the actual executable should go somebody said it was device something or other wonderful I'll put a pull request there There are two outstanding pull requests one against core and one against kivvy or a feature slash kivvy dash display Those pull requests should be reviewed and and give me any feedback. Okay? The assumption is once that's done I'm out of the loop and somebody's gonna make sure that everything magically happens the way it's supposed to down stream If they can't do that, they can ask me for help, but that's that's what I'm gonna do moving forward I'll have that done by noon tomorrow Want to meet and discuss these issues. We could do it tonight. We could do it tomorrow I'm flexible, but I'm just concerned that we're We're telling ourselves we're gonna start shipping product in 30 days and we have these sorts of issues still unresolved Let alone the fact that we don't have Wi-Fi set up working yet. We don't have an update strategy in place We don't have a lot of stuff. Yeah, so I was hoping the last two weeks on it Would be like the last front where we would address those issues and resolve them But if we keep lumping more problems into that two-week summit, I don't think we're gonna get there from here Well And I think that you know, you've identified a bunch of issues that have already been identified as problem areas And maybe some of these things are things we can fix before we get to the summit So if you've got a working Driver for the new SJ201 boards and you're done with that then maybe this is something that You can start to tackle I don't know how to respond to that except to say that I will get these pull requests and the other hardware one up and running and tomorrow I'll try to figure out what the right way to get this all pulled together is I'll lean heavy on Chris V since Chris G will be sleeping and And we'll talk about it and try to come up with the right solution If not long term at least in a room We've had you know a number of discussions about this over the last, you know, nine months or so and You know, you'll find a wealth of questions and things to be done in the Jira ticket system So there's you know, there's already multiple tickets about resolving skill core and closure and closure repo Issues there's already stuff about what is the actual build process for creating images because right now? It's you know, it's not automated, right? It's semi automated But there's no we don't have a continuous delivery system, right? So you know, we want to move in that direction and So we need to identify all of a little Speed bumps along the way to getting there, right? So, you know, you're right You're you're you're coming into contact with a lot of you know, sort of the residual messiness of the system and stuff that needs to be cleaned up and you know, you're also right that it is Going to keep us from shipping. So these are things that we need to tackle So, yeah, I mean, it's good the tickets are there. It just seems like they're getting a bit, right? All right, well, let's let's Start tackling them then And just to clarify that the Qt build system is fully automated. So Okay, yeah All this code runs on Kivvy Yeah, yeah, but but I also think I think coming back can to your questions and stuff I think this is the perfect place for Micro for the team chat and for the dev team chat like, you know asking where things should go You know, then you don't have to wait until the face-to-face meeting and be blocked You know, and it gives people can just point the link to exactly where it should go So, you know, I just encourage people to be using the chat more as well between meetings Yeah, I mean, I think it's deeper than this obviously I think it has to do with Our tagging and branching mechanisms and how to know what's the latest version of code on any particular repository that's been deployed And where is that information retained short of somebody's brain? but really If we're serious about shipping product in 30 or 60 days or whatever it is The informalities have to come to an end. All right. Well, that's my update Thank you for that update Ken After all of that, I'm not sure really sure where that leaves us. Do we have an image that okay, let me put it this way You have a working mark two based on the latest rev3 of the 201 board, right? I do and I could even send everybody a monkey patch file that would you would take the existing kevin image Run a script that you know unzipped from a file I give you and it will magically apply the changes and everything will work and I don't have a problem with that being a solution for something going out at the end of the week or whatever But it really is seeming like the informalities like well, we've always done it this way and we know it's not right That's gotta stop That's where i'm coming from, you know, I can say that for a long long time ken Uh Okay, well Let's I think you should get that monkey patch out so that uh, josh and gezz and chris can apply it once they get their hardware devices in And they'll at least have something to work on and um I will I'll get that out first thing in the morning everybody. Um instead of a patch script, uh, we can Hopefully, you know wipe your personal details off that image and then create an image from it Might be easier. Um Except all of my images are seriously used and carry a ton of artifacts, right like log files Or crap. I mean, I have changes all over the place for logging and stuff like that Uh, so yeah, uh, no, this will be a simple file that will be a zip file. You unzip it You run a script It'll say this file goes into this sub directory these files go over here This file goes over there It'll display reboot your system now and everything will magically work and then, you know, we but again at some point in time We need to figure out what really is the right way to solve this Moving forward regarding how are we tracking what? Branches from which repositories are going into what build yeah, and and you know and further we have to You know ensure that the right you're getting the right version for your piece of hardware, right? So you don't need to be downloading this patch if you're running it on pycroft because it's not going to work for you It's not going to do anything for you Um In and the mark one or a linux version or whatever, right? So we need to you know, we need to address all of that Okay, so, um Who hasn't had a chance to talk yet? Uh chris there I don't ever look at yourself You know did you do that in this meeting or before the meeting? That's not fair. Why does chris get to go twice? I think we're only missing derrick's update. Okay All right, so things changed a little bit for me based on some earlier conversations that we had So I had to kind of allocate a lot of time and I think I should still do so to build devices For project rollover, but they may not now go directly to project rollover right away Which I think is I think I think that decision is a good one. Um, and a lot of ways the Points that can be can also be applied to similar hardware stuff You know, we need to test the complete system You know kevin's been doing a lot of testing on the boards themselves That's a lot more than that. You know, we've got to do the engineering validation of the whole system You know and that includes not only the software stuff, but also You know thermal testing and All these other things too And I'd like us to eventually have Some audio automatic audio feedback testing all this stuff that's obviously never happened right away, but All those things You know, they don't preclude us from shipping these dev units To backers as long as we have these, you know, a big A big stamp on there that says this is a developer unit, you know, you're you're getting into it We don't have all this stuff for you But yeah, I you know, I agree with kin. There's a lot of log testing a lot of validation We still have to do before we feel comfortable shipping some and Uh Just to alleviate your concern a little bit kin everything that we've shipped out. I have tested and I will say that um I was not seeing those bugs with the audio issue Uh for the rollover units like we saw after they'd shipped, but had I seen them before I think I probably would have Humped the brakes a bit. Um, but I think I just got a lucky streak or something Where I just wasn't seeing it like that Um, I think I think part of it might have to do with the packaging So the unit that I have that kevin sent me that was the one that really worked as advertised I'm just not getting any sound out of it And I think it has to do with loose connections and I've reseeded stuff So it wouldn't surprise me that things came loose during shipment that with them molesting them and moving them around That connections became loose or whatever. So I I think some of it has to do with tight packaging versus Very loose packaging like we have now and shipment Yeah So, yeah, I mean I test everything and you know, I if I can't get it to work I could say I can't really ship it so Anyway, uh, so yeah, my main my main priority is like we talk about get everybody these sj2 at one device devices and for a couple of A couple of you that's going to be some closures and or modifications to closures So you can put them in in a closure. So can I need to get you a new top? So the holes are different on the new design Um, Chris, I need to get you a board. That's just trying to meet up tomorrow um, and then I I've got your address guys. I assume that hasn't changed so um I'll just touch me up for this picture that I haven't shipped you anything for quite a while. So Derek, do you have a working unit that you're planning on running with like today or tomorrow? I do. Yeah, I have a working unit So then I'll coordinate with you in the morning and uh sync up I'll point you to the kivvy image that I'm using which should be the latest And I'll use you as my guinea pig for the monkey patch Yeah, cool Um, so what I haven't done is actually put all this together in the 3d printing closure and run it You know, so if I get the monkey patch, I can do that and You know, I I'd like to spend some time actually getting it to work and You know validating a little bit before I just run into a simply line boat and build, you know A bunch of these then realize no wait. They they have some kind of illusion So, um Yeah, I've got a whole laundry list of things related to mark 2 hardware stuff to work through As well as a sales deck. I need to get updated to charge for as well. I'll try to actually get that done tonight Um But yeah, my main my main goal is get you guys stuff that works and then give me something closer You guys are all going to work on the laser cut design the sj2 30 I need to get an sj2 40 the 3d print design working. That's kind of my my highest Okay, thanks Derek Ken so just going back here for a second. Um Kevin sent you three boards three sj2o ones Right, how many of them work fully? So, um The answer to that question is none, uh, let's see I have I technically have one two three four sj2o ones Um, the the one the latest one the 17 board the only one that's two spec by the way Right the ref b spec Which is that you can use vf control Versus gpio, right That the only one I have of that is working except the sound's not coming out But I already know the volume control is working And I already know it's working on the input because I can see the log files Recognizes when I speak so that's just an issue with connectors. Like I said, these got these header connectors instead of the actual micro USB connectors and that's part of where the problem is emanating from I think also the problem is pushing these buttons On the bare board like this Stresses the planer a lot more than if you actually had real Little feedbacks which is on them that would say that's enough, you know what I mean? So part of it's probably that but the answer to your question is of the four boards I have none of them are working 100 percent. I've got three of these guys, but they're all the old school uh, gpio, which is of no value to us anymore because Um, you know, I mean while that branch is out there. It's never been committed or anything and that code's not there So we don't have any code that would support it anyway uh, so that being said um A half Okay, um I'll send you a link that's got the status Derek, uh, I think I don't know Derek or Kevin created a spreadsheet to keep track of who's got which board and what the status of every board is So we have to start coordinating through that um, yeah, yeah and um and I'd like to Talk with you for just a minute after this meeting um We need to we need to sync up with kevin on the whole gpio versus usb issue Um, okay, that's that's fine as long as it's not talking about the equalizer ticket. You assigned me which Oh, yeah That's for the future that wasn't for for now. Thank goodness All right, hopefully the future after I've died Yeah, okay, so we'll stay out after this meeting and we can talk about that. Okay, uh, josh do you have any updates? And the core thing seems to be working. Okay Um, I really need the deck because we have a major distributor that we are sending that off to that wants to potentially wants to work with us and uh I'm looking forward to the sprint and actually pushing some of this stuff through the production I think that that kim kind of nails it on the head Wait, there's a lack of bandwidth and gets to there's a lack of bandwidth between us Like it's just we're not in the same office. We're not the same space. It's difficult to coordinate when you're not Um, and then finally like we will get all this stuff squared away. So we'll get there one day at a time agreed Okay, so I'll take a look at all the notes from today and And and think about um, what are our priorities and what we need to get done before the the summit sprint and um, I'll get back to all of you on that um So, uh, okay. So in the meantime, uh, let's uh, remember to uh, test the new wake word tagger and get chris some feedback and we're gonna He's gonna focus on getting getting that into production and um, we'll talk again on wednesday She'll be usually the chris and I think if you can use her he's not He's gonna work on getting upload wake word into production working not necessarily the tagger yet Well, all of it Okay Right, so I'll just leave this current print open for now And it is yeah, we'll leave it open. Um, yeah Okay, we'll revisit it on wednesday as to whether we're gonna Close it out at the end of this week or Or not, but right. Um, let's just focus on getting the things done that need to be done um We'll worry about the uh The the sprint, you know, nomenclature and all that later All right, uh, okay. Thanks everybody. Um, we'll talk again In a couple days if not tomorrow, I'll probably be talking to Michael you and I will talk again now Yes All right