 Good evening. Welcome. Glad to see you folks have weathered the storm and come out through the slush and the melting to join us tonight. My name is Linda Bowden and I'm the Volunteer State President for AARP Vermont and we're thrilled to see all of you here tonight. We're hoping to get to know our Burlington City Council candidates a little better. These candidates are vying to represent voters like you in wards two and three. The livability of our communities has long been a focus of our work at AARP Vermont. How our cities and towns prepare for and accommodate an aging population has a profound effect on the health of a community and the quality of life today and in the future for residents of all ages. We hope to explore a number of critical issues including transportation, housing, job growth and mobility tonight and give you the opportunity to ask your questions as well. We are fortunate tonight to partner with Burlington Business Association who shares our commitment to educating voters like you on how these candidates stand on important livability issues before you go to the polls in March. We encourage you to ask questions of the candidates by filling out an index card. These can be found at the registration table along with pens so please feel free at any moment to grab one or I'll be wandering around with other cards so you can get one from me. Please provide your name and your question and return it to me or the center up there by the table. We'll select as many as we can with the time that we have. If you need to know more about the candidates and their positions I hope you got a program that was up on the table because their information is listed there. Our moderator tonight is Fran Stoddard. She is in charge tonight folks so she will ask the candidates questions and manage the format. She will outline the details in just a moment. Tonight's event is meant to be an educational forum. We ask all of you folks to please respect the spirit of this event as well as our candidates and audience members and refrain from any rallying, heckling or loud cheering. We want to use our time efficiently and promise to get to as many questions as possible and you're invited to a reception in the back to meet the candidates and to mingle after we finish with the questions. Before we go any further I'd like to give a shout out to the many volunteers that we have working this event tonight. Thank you. We couldn't have done this event without you. We have many opportunities at AARP for volunteer efforts you may have seen if you were around on the other side. Tax aid folks do work here, volunteer their time to help people with taxes. We have driver's safety, we have fraud, advocacy, livable communities, many different opportunities. AARP is active with lots of different things. So if you have questions about volunteering or want to get involved, see me and I'd be more than happy to answer any of those questions. So at this point in time I would like to introduce Fran Stoddard. Thank you Linda. Okay I'll let you know how we're going to run this evening. I think it's at the desk. I hope all of you got one of these because there aren't going to be opening statements as there often are. There will be closing statements tonight but their statement about who these three candidates are are in that pamphlet. So we are going to do, I have questions. I will do them from here. The reason why we ask you to have questions on cards is it's much better for the people who are filming so RITN and Channel 3 can have a sense of those questions. It just makes more sense. That's why we ask you to write them on cards and bring them up here and we might even put together questions that are very similar to ask the candidates. Please know that, is it RITN or is it VCAM? I'm sorry Channel 17 of course. So if people are missing this they can of course see this on Channel 17. When earlier tonight the candidates drew a number and that has created the order of today. So I will start with Brian and go down the line and then the next question I will start with Max and then the third question with Ryan, etc., and go around and that's how that's going to work. Each of them gets 60 seconds to answer the question and if I have a follow-up, yes and we have a fabulous timekeeper here, Steve is going to keep them in line and let them know how much time they have. So they have 60 seconds. If I ask a follow-up they get another 30 seconds each. If any of the candidates can choose to have a rebuttal and they have three rebuttal cards and they will waive them if they want to use them but they just have three so it's just kind of like timeouts, that's a limit. So that's what they get to use and the rebuttals will be a 30 second as well and I think we are ready to go. Thank you again all for being here and we hope you do encourage people to watch the video so the more people come out and really have a sense of what the issues are and where people are standing is really important to you and this wonderful city. So I will start with the opening question and we are going to start with Brian. Like the rest of the state, Burlington's population is aging according to the US Census Bureau over the next decade and beyond the percentage of people 65 and older will grow more than any other age demographic. We keep hearing this but interestingly enough right behind older adults are people in their 20s. How can our city grow, develop and redevelop in a way that addresses the needs, desires and desires of these two demographics. So maybe you can name two changes you would support to address the needs of these two groups. Brian. Great thanks Fran and just to clarify I have 60 seconds to give you this answer do I? 60 seconds. I'll read then because I think it will be a little quicker. Okay. I believe that housing continues to be a major concern for this community for both younger and older residents. Top priority for Burlington seniors is consistently expressed in surveys after surveys as being able to age in place and I'm a strong supporter of the home sharing model as a way to do that. It's not the only way but it's one way that from a public policy standpoint that we can help older people age in place while also opening up housing opportunities for others who are often younger people looking for affordable homes. So it's a great win-win as they say. I believe the reality is with our aging population the growth of this population will never be able to build our way out of it to meet the demands and to meet the needs and for many people staying in their home is really their preferred choice and their best choice and more affordable and easier than downsizing. You hear a lot about downsizing but it's not necessarily easy for everyone. So those are the those are the ways I would try to address both ends of that spectrum. Fantastic. And I was remiss Brian Pine of course is the incumbent from Ward 3. He is in the Progressive Party and I'm not taking up your time Max but just to make sure everybody knows who's here. Max is also an incumbent and the progressive and from Ward 2 and also coming new to this forum Democrat Ryan Nick also from Ward 2. So that's who we have here tonight. That would be important to let everybody know. So next up is Max Tracy the progressive. So this is and also they have seen this opening question and the others they have not seen. So again on to Max about how you would deal with these two different demographics that we have in this area. Absolutely. Well like Councilor Pine I absolutely agree that housing is a crucial issue for our community and making sure that people have the ability to age in place or to age in a place of their choosing. And I think that that's a crucial challenge that we face here in Burlington. What I think that we see or what I hear as I go around the neighborhood is that a challenge to that is making sure is people having the ability to continue to keep up with the tax burden. So I think that there's a need to continue to budget in a way that's fair that maintains city services but also that keeps taxes in a way keeps taxes reasonable. So I think that the way that we can do that is looking towards more progressive streams of revenue that have wealthier folks paying more. This is not really something that's built into our current property tax model. I think we absolutely have to address that. I think it's not just about that though. I think it's also about expanding different housing options and I am in support of the accessory dwelling unit policy currently before the city council allowing us to potentially create what have traditionally been known as in law apartments adjacent to existing units. So I think housing is a huge aspect of the age in place as well as this new demographic. Great. Thank you Max. And Ryan. Got it. Yeah I think so. So I think you know we need to make housing more available for seniors. You know I agree to some extent with the sentiment that we can't build our way out of the problem. But you know we have a lot of aging folks in you know these one family homes you know stairs in the multiple bedrooms space that they don't really need anymore. And you know I've heard from many community members that if housing was available they might choose to downsize which would be great because then it would free up a home for a new family coming into town. But we also need to pair that with workforce development. Burlington needs to bring new jobs and new businesses into our city so that you know young people the other demographic that's growing here can support the tax base and the growing tax burden on Burlington residents. Great thank you very much. You might have noticed there is theater going on upstairs is a very vibrant community center. So but fortunately we have these microphones and hopefully that helps everybody here okay. We will move on to the questions these questions were developed by AARP and the Burlington Business Association. So if you're wondering where these questions came from they've really worked hard on on questions that are really important to the city. The next one is on housing. The city is currently proposing removing the minimum parking requirement for new development in the downtown and transit corridors. What are your views on how this change will help promote affordable housing. And we're going to start with Max. Thank you. So in in terms of I I do support the the idea of removing the parking minimum requirement I think that this is an important step towards making it more towards more towards having more affordable development and I think that just has to do with the fact that it costs a lot to build a structured parking space. I believe it's heard around around $40,000 per space so it's quite expensive. I think that the key to that though is not just removing parking but also crafting the ordinance in a way that not only removes that requirement and the costs associated with that but actually gets us because that's a huge savings to developers and I don't think that we should be giving that all away or allowing them to take that benefit. I think what we need to do is instead of that requirement if people aren't going to build the parking to make sure that we actually have them contribute to additional resources so more sustainable transportation, walking, biking and better funding our transit system and transit resources for seniors. Thank you. Ryan. I think that's a good point and I would also agree with removing the parking minimums especially our along transit corridors. I think that could also be paired with increasing the density along bus routes and major transit areas in the city where you know in order to increase ridership on these transit routes and bus routes it'd be helpful if people live next to them and within walking distance so people could get from their houses to the grocery store to you know the community center what have you. You know I think charging landlords for you know the parking that they're not providing it would be nice if they could contribute maybe like parking impact fees in South Burlington but we just need to make sure that those fees are set at an appropriate level so that it doesn't limit new development. Great thank you. Ryan. We probably share a lot of opinions on these issues so it may sound a little redundant but I'll try. I think the idea of a parking or transit impact fee has a lot of merit as Max said that it is a cost that is borne by somebody. If parking is not borne by the cost of parking is not borne by a developer it falls on either the tenant because they need a place to park or they then need to basically pay for transit so I think there's a trade-off there that we need to be mindful of and be sure that we're right sizing it so that there will be just enough parking to meet the need in no extra parking built and that the savings somehow accrue to the to the benefit of the residents and to the community at large. Ultimately parking minimums into downtown like Burlington will become obsolete. The market will determine what's needed and over time you know as we transition away from dependence on fossil fuel hopefully we will see much more options for people that are affordable and viable. There is a follow-up question that that the organizers wanted and you kind of some of you have sort of addressed this but would you support further expanding this minimum parking requirement in residential and lower density areas. Does it make sense there as well. And we're going to go with Max again and go around just just a quick thirty seconds or less. Yeah I mean I think it's worth looking at I think we should start with it with the downtown and the more dense areas and then sort of branch off of that and continue to see how it has see how it goes but I think it's something that that has merit and that is part of what I think is a reconsideration of how we use space in our community that is necessary not only in terms of sort of the changing demographic trends that we see in the changing needs but also in terms of the climate crisis and our need to really move away from fossil fuel dependence and building that infrastructure into our communities in such a in such a concrete literally concrete way. Okay thank you. I would support changing it along transit corridors not necessarily in neighborhoods per se where you know people more have single family homes and we want to preserve the scale and character of the neighborhoods but certainly and I think they're pretty clear you know transit corridors what we're talking about so supported along those. Thank you Brian. I'm open to it. I want us to you know be honest about having this be a transitionary period that we're in or a transitional period moving away from over dependence on the automobile and on fossil fuels single occupancy automobiles are something where to look back on and say I can't believe we drove around as single people sitting in those hunks of steel burning that much fossil fuel but we're not there yet so I think we need to be mindful of that and recognize that some neighborhoods are traditionally places where parking is really an amenity that people depend on so let's be aware of that. Okay terrific thank you. Ryan we're going to start with you on on a land use and development question. Are the policy changes that you feel are necessary to address the downtown mall project to ensure are there policy changes that you feel are necessary to address the downtown mall project to ensure completion? I think that's a really interesting question because I'm not entirely sure there are policy changes that the city could make to you know I think we need to work with the developer hold them accountable etc etc but I'm not sure like there are policy changes that could be made going forward you know we can look at upcoming projects differently we can hold them to different standards but I'm not sure what a resolution would look like for that. I do think the city does need to prioritize opening up the streets St. Paul and Pine to increase walkability, bike ability and connectivity in the city. Okay great and Brian and is Steve Griffin sitting in a good place for all of you to see him would you rather he was right here in front of Marcus maybe not to make it a big deal but just so you aren't yeah yeah you're looking kind of two different ways. Okay so now we will begin with Brian around this this land use and development these policy changes around the project. Can I use a rebuttal card to just ask you to rephrase the question or say it again because I don't need the rebuttal there are their policy changes that you feel are necessary to address the downtown mall project to ensure its completion. I think that's pretty hard because we're in the middle of the stream if you will and I think it's important to have a certain level of predictability and certainty in our local regulatory process so I'm not sure that policy changes at this point would serve the community that well I have to admit I don't want and I don't think our community wants to see a vacant hole in our downtown for any longer than necessary so I believe our focus now is how to move forward and preserve the benefits and the amenities that came with that project and ensure that that it be done in a way that you know upholds our values as a community our land use goals and I'm going to continue to advocate for for that project going in that way. Thank you. So as someone who didn't support the mall moving forward and has been advocating for continuously accountability on the part of the developer I think that part of the change is that we really need to whenever we're being asked part of you know I sort of take this question a little bit differently because we were told that we needed 14 stories in order for this project to have viability. Now we found that actually the 14 stories were what made it not happen. And so I think we need to whenever we're considering making changes requested by developers really hold them to account really dig deeper into those questions because what we're finding is that in the case of the mall that those promises and those those claims just were not true. So I look more towards the mall project is needing to be one where we have more accountability mechanisms built in and specifically more public engagement and transparency around the project making sure that folks have ability to weigh in on what is ultimately a very different project than they might have voted for in the context of those requested policy changes. Terrific thank you. Another one on governance and taxes and know that we'll get to your questions in about 10 minutes or so. On this year's town meeting day ballot voters will see two questions asking for their approval to increase taxes. These are proposed these are a proposed increase of the housing trust fund assessment to a full penny as well as a point three cent increase in the public safety tax rate. What are your views on these tax increases which are likely to result in higher housing costs. How would you address the concerns of our older and younger citizens who already say they cannot afford living costs in Burlington. We'll start with Brian. Thank you. The I do support both of the questions increasing the housing trust fund is something that is long overdue. A recent analysis of what the housing trust fund is a city funding source that comes from the taxpayer and is an allocated to support the creation or preservation rehabilitation of permanently affordable housing. It's only available to entities that that perform that function for permanently affordable housing. So it's not a source of funding that goes to private developers it goes to non profit public purpose developers. So I think that's really important. The public safety tax as much as I actually really disliked the property taxes the way to fund municipal services we only have so many options available to us so I still support it. I think we need to constantly look at ways to keep our costs to improve efficiency of city government and to ensure that we only raise our taxes when absolutely necessary. OK. And Max. Yeah. So I support both of the housing trust fund tax as well as the public safety tax. I think it's important that we restore it to a full penny in our conversation at the Charter Change Committee which is a committee I chair we talked about trying to bring a different progressive means of taxation into that. Unfortunately that's really challenging. And I think we're going to have to continue that conversation to look for ways to get folks who are making more to pay more and to kind of deal with that that issue of regressivity on the property tax side of things with that. But I think it's important that we restore to a full penny and adopt this because that will this this change will mean that it keeps up with inflation on the public safety tax. I also support that and I think it's a crucial issue for seniors. One thing that we're seeing is what this tax will do is allow us to add eight firefighters and an ambulance in the new North End. Currently the ambulance from the old North End serves the new North End creating response time issues with so many senior facilities in the new North End. We need to prioritize response times and this will help us to do that and bring necessary resources to address that while also freeing up that ambulance or making sure that ambulance is available to respond to calls in the old North End and other parts of the city as well. Thank you and Ryan. Not to sound repetitive but I also support both of the measures. I think you get a good description of what both of the taxes are by Brian and Max. But I'm going to choose to use this time to emphasize the fact that you know our tax base is only so large and you know a city of 40,000 people the taxes are going to keep going up just as you know cost of living that's the way things work for better or for worse. If we don't increase our tax base we don't increase the population and the workforce of Burlington you know these taxes are going to continue to rise on residents and make it more unaffordable to live here. Thank you. We're going to move now to transportation and mobility and we'll start with Max this time. What is your strategy to make transit a practical daily option for a wide range of Burlingtonians and to assure it will be accessible for everyone. Sure so one of the things that we've recently seen is that Green Mountain Transit has rolled out their next-gen planning and I think that one thing that we need to do is address what has been a three to four percent decline in ridership as a result of some of the headway issues that they've had so addressing those headway issues and making sure that people have that buses are on time and that the headways are on time. We also need to make sure that the system is understandable for folks. The transition from numbers to colors was not well managed and so they've since added back in the numbers in addition to the colors. This is something that we really need to make sure we prioritize. I think that there's also room to grow in terms of the app and some of the signage at the bus station as well. And then I supported a resolution at the city council to explore creating additional fare free transit routes. I heard from lots of seniors on the College Street shuttle that they wanted to see that remain a fare free transit route because they relied on that to get between hospital appointments and their homes. I support that but I also support us continuing to prioritize and looking at creating additional fare free options for folks so that everybody can have access to this crucial community resource. Thank you Max and Ryan. Your strategy for transit. Sure. I think the city council should look at a pilot program that runs about two years where we increase the service from every 20 minutes which it is now to about every 10 minutes. Which you know if you miss a bus and it's 20 minutes until the next one like your day is thrown off. Like you know now you're not going to get to the grocery store. You're going to miss your doctor's appointment. And you know if you've missed the first bus of your day like it's not going to go well. So I think we should explore you know making it every 10 minutes. This would also increase ridership you know because I think I like to work but if on a day like today I'd probably rather not if the buses were coming every 10 minutes I could more easily catch one and would more consider taking one. I guess that would be my specific policy proposal but I also think that we should look at you know reducing fares for seniors and people who can't afford it. Thank you and Brian. Sure the transit system that works best is the one that comes most often and is taking you to the places you need to go first and foremost. And our system is I think inadequate in that regard for many people in many neighborhoods. And so that is true for people in the old north end and folks in the new north end. And so we really need to have a more focused discussion I believe on increasing the frequency and also actually addressing the routes because I think that's where the ridership we would start to see the numbers increase. That's my emphasis. I'm cautiously open minded about the idea of fare free transit but I don't want to cripple the entity that we're trying to grow with the fare by cutting the fare out of the budget. I know it's only 17 percent of the overall revenue but it's still a piece of the revenue picture. And if we cut that out what are we doing to our goals to increase ridership. And there's a special question for your ward or your district here which is how to balance the needs of all users residents and businesses along the Winooski Avenue corridor. So your thoughts briefly on that. Ryan we'll start with you on this one. Sure thank you. I think North Winooski Avenue over the past 10 20 years has seen a lot of changes. We've seen a lot of new businesses come into town with Jake's old north end market just opening the other day. And it's in clear need of redoing in some form way shape way or shape you know what I mean. Anyways I do think that right now the proposal is to take away a hundred and ten parking spaces between Riverside and Pearl Street. And I think the ideas that we're going to study the parking and the parking management plan is going to come back and tell us there are empty spots here and there but those empty spots are in front of houses and they're for residents. The cars if we take away the parking spaces tomorrow the cars are not going to stop coming at least for a certain amount of time. The cars are going to still come and they're going to park in front of houses that is where residents park and you know it'll I think these businesses are also run on like a very thin margin and that you know we've seen a lot of revitalization around the area and I would be wary of messing that up too much. Thank you. Brian. Yeah this is an issue that I think we still have work to do as a community at the neighborhood planning assembly a couple of months ago. I sort of jokingly said can't we do both. Can't we have our cake and eat it too and I still hold out the hope that we can figure out a way to do both and that is accommodate the need for a continuous safe bike lane but also have residents many of whom are working class and low income renters living in the buildings have access to parking that they really need for a lot of people to maintain their employment and their independence. So I want to make sure we've thought about all the players all the stakeholders when we're doing this project and I think south of Pearl is pretty straightforward. I don't know. I think you might have referred to North Minsky but I just want everyone to know that the improvement south of Pearl I think enjoy broad support at the council and in the community and I think it would be a great improvement. I know there are some in the business community who are very concerned about that and I think we need to be mindful of their caution and their concerns but at the same time we really need to address the fact that you can't safely navigate downtown Burlington on a bike on a continuous path through downtown Burlington. We need to deal with that. So I think that we need to revolutionize our transportation system. I again say that we are in climate crisis. The city council adopted a resolution moving us towards a net zero framework. We've continued to adopt climate action plans. We adopted a climate crisis resolution but we have not seen enough action specifically around getting people out of cars and providing alternatives to car transport and so what I think that we need to do is prioritize the implementation of plan BTV walk bike which is a vision would set forth a vision for creating a comprehensive world class network for walking and biking in the city. When you ski is a crucial corridor in the building out of that network in the sense that it's a street that goes throughout the city from north to south. I think that I fully support the four to three conversion in the downtown section. So going from having going to have two two car travel lanes a center turn lane and bike lanes in that section. And then I also support going through a parking management study to understand how we can better manage that parking. But I think that to assume that it's going to turn out negative. We need to make sure that we approach this in a way that is embracing of that need to change and also is open minded giving us a chance to really think that this may actually benefit the city and businesses in ways that we might not have imagined because we're so car centric in our thinking. So I think we need to open up our minds and try out new new strategies for getting awesome. And land use two more questions for me and then we'll get to your questions. There is a debate in many cities across the country over diversity versus sprawl. Proponents of higher density point to the environment housing livability and economic benefits. Should city policies aim to increase density in some areas of the city. How should the city strike a balance between preserving neighborhood character and promoting density. And we'll start with Brian. Sure this this issue is one that Burlington has only begun to grapple with. I think that there was recognition in our conversations around how to improve the one ordinance that really dictates what happens around affordable housing in relation to market rate housing was around inclusionary zoning. And in that process the task force of really smart people sat around and said you know what we have we actually have a city that's zoned to exclude multifamily and affordable housing in whole sections of our city. We did not raise that issue because that was not the task we were charged with. But that was a recognition that everyone at the table had after months of looking at this issue was if we don't grapple with the fact that we as a city if we're going to grow have to be willing to look at increased density all over the city. I think we're going to be cutting ourselves short on our potential. And that relates to things like increasing our transit because density is what leads to good transit. Robust transit depends on density so I think we need to be open minded about this in every neighborhood. And Max. So I guess I think about neighborhood character not just in terms of buildings but actually neighborhood characters and people who are in neighborhoods. And I think that we need to give people the resources that they need to stay in their neighborhoods. And I think that what we've seen is that you know I've seen actually this happened quite a bit in the neighborhood is that you know for instance I was talking with someone about who wanted to stay in the neighborhood and was hoping to develop an affordable unit as along with a friend. And so I think an accessory dwelling unit that is. And so I do support the accessory dwelling unit ordinance. I think that that can help us to balance that need for neighborhood character while also getting us that additional density in a responsible way. I think that we're doing it in I think that we do need to address some some questions that still are outstanding specifically an impediment that exists with regards to fire code. We need to continue to look at that because that ten thousand dollars to put in a sprinkler system can be prohibitive or at least that's what I heard in this particular seniors case is that they weren't able to do the do the ADU because the fire sprinkler system cost was was so high. So I think that we need to do as much as we can to get people the ability to stay in the neighborhood. Thank you and Ryan. So I also support the ADU thing. But I think it's not enough. It's a great policy all for it. But you know we really need to increase the density particularly within our downtown core. I think we're really under utilizing that area and it could be a lot more dense which will lead to the transportation benefits the business benefits. You know if you have enough people living in the downtown then you could take away the parking. You would have enough people within there to create that sort of critical mass to support all these amenities these stores groceries parks. And that they would create the sort of environment that would support all Burlingtonians. So I think we really need to particularly in the downtown core and on transit corridors because I think a lot of people like the character of their neighborhoods. It's one of the reasons I live in the old North End. So I wouldn't want to disturb that too much. But I think we need to seriously consider adding a lot of density in our downtown core. Great. Thank you. And economic development and job growth. What is your plan to help retain and grow new businesses in Burlington. We'll start with Max. Yes. So I think that one of the things that we need to do is you know engage with with businesses and see what their needs are. And so I think that one of the things that we need to do is have. I think that one of the opportunity costs that we've seen is that's taking place as a result of focusing too much on sort of these large scale developments like the mall is that that saps resources from important economic drivers like our CEDA office. For instance, you know I think I read an article where and heard that the CEDA director was spending as much as 50 percent of their time just on the city place project. And I think there's an opportunity cost in terms of supporting neighborhood scale businesses and making sure that they can thrive. So I think that we need to bring the focus back to the old North End making sure that we're supporting the existing businesses because I think we're at a very crucial moment where we have an interesting mix of existing businesses that I think need support and then lots of new businesses coming in. And I think that we need to maintain that balance through aggressive you know engagement from CEDA and making sure that we're engaging with them while also listening to them around necessary policy changes on things like the business personal property tax which the council listen to businesses and repealed in order to help those businesses continue to grow and invest. Thank you. So I think first off the city needs an economic development plan. I think that the CEDA office should prepare one and that we should study what the city needs to develop our economy to really become a fully 21st century city which will help not only with jobs and the tax base as previously mentioned but also turning our city you know more environmentally friendly. We need to combine that with making the permitting and development process clear right now especially for small developers like the big firms can handle it. But the one offs the tiny small businesses you know they really need clarity in these areas because you know they have their actual jobs to do. And finally I think that sort of economic development often gets to put on these big building projects construction projects where as I think we need to turn the focus from buildings and you know stories and whatever to people and the workforce and just sort of the community as opposed to these you know more structural things focus on the community. Brian. I was involved in an effort previously called jobs and people which was an economic development strategy and a couple of years ago was able to get funding in the budget. The project never moved forward because the community and economic development office didn't have the capacity just didn't have the people to implement it. So there's still funding that's sitting there to do a jobs and people update. Jobs and people looks at what do we have available to people today for building a career ladder to achieve their full goals their full potential. You know often called a pathway to the middle class but I don't want to assume that's everyone's desire. But we ought to give people the resources and the tools so that they can in fact achieve their full potential and workforce development connecting with our high schools making sure that what we're doing at our tech center actually speaks to the needs of employers especially higher paying employers ensuring that as we develop a more tech oriented economy that it doesn't result in us just recruiting employees from outside of Vermont to fill those jobs but in fact serves local people. Max. Oh you started caught me. OK we're going to start this one. It wasn't it wasn't a follow up and now on to some of your questions in this one. What are your thoughts on balancing housing needs with environmental concerns especially storm water management and lake health and we're going to start with Ryan. Great thank you. I think with the housing you know I have previously stated that you know adding density will encourage bus use bike use and lessen our dependence on cars so I don't think we should discount that. I think with particularly the larger projects with the mall we need to make sure that they're treating all the storm water that comes off of it and goes like not directly into the lake but we need to make sure these projects especially in the dense downtown core where you know you don't have a lawn to absorb all of your storm water. You need to make sure that this is treated properly before it gets to the lake because it's one of our biggest assets in the city of Burlington and I would be remiss if we didn't do all that we could to protect it. Brian. I've always a subscribe to the notion that smart growth which is inherently an environmental agenda is fundamentally about rebuilding your downtown's and rebuilding your neighborhoods in a way that encourages growth and development on underutilized properties. It looks for every opportunity in an urban setting. At the same time we have recent projects which as a result of new development is actually improving lake conditions over what was there previously. I know it's a little hard for folks to fathom the idea that new development actually can improve water quality. But what was there previously did nothing to treat water on site. And as Ryan said treating your stormwater on site is the most effective way to reduce runoff and pollution into our lake. So that is embedded in a lot of our development codes. It's incentivized and developers are increasingly developing on site solutions to stormwater. And that is a single. That's a huge game changer. They think a lot of folks have overlooked when they look at new development and think all that must be dumping more stormwater into the lake. It doesn't. It actually reduces that. Right. Max. So I fully supported the the water bonds that came to my committee the Transportation Energy Utilities Committee. And I fully supported that. I went and toured the wastewater facilities to understand how that implementation is going and get a real sense of how our water system is treated. One of the things I think on a neighborhood scale that we need to continue to do and that's been cited as having helped us to deal with some of the the outfalls. So we have a number of outfalls one of which is into the intervail. And when the combined sewer overflows we get these massive storms that we're seeing with greater frequency again because of climate crisis we see those go off. What we've seen though is that those events have decreased as a result of the implementation of stormwater gardens at the neighborhood scale and you can achieve a dual benefit of dealing of slowing that stormwater by installing more rainwater gardens while also achieving a traffic calming benefits of getting people to drive slower on neighborhood streets through those those bump outs. I think it's also important that as we look at trying to regulations aimed at increasing density that we hold the bar high in terms of environmental standards. I did not support the fair the form-based code because it did not go far enough in terms of environmental regulation or requirement. So I think we absolutely need to hold them accountable to that and hold it to a higher standard if we're giving the benefits. Thank you. We'll start with Brian on this one. With about 12,000 seniors in Burlington how would you improve walkability so that folks can age in place improve sidewalks, maintenance and snow plowing, safe crossings, et cetera and make sure we can afford all that as well. Sure. I think the condition of our sidewalks is not really what it should be in the neighborhood level both in terms of the actual maintenance of the infrastructure but also the removal of snow. Anyone who's on the council today gets contacted by one particular constituent to remind us to keep this issue front and center. And that is critical that it is the need or the ability of folks to be able to navigate our sidewalks. Folks who yesterday I was going leaving my street and I noticed someone in a wheelchair who literally was stuck in the snow on the sidewalk and I needed to be somewhere. Fortunately, a neighbor was out with a shovel and I told them that this person needed help. I mean, it was literally that. We used to have an effort in the city that was volunteer driven run out of city hall called Operation Snow Shovel that actually helped seniors get their homes shoveled out. It's something that I think we should revisit and get back to helping neighbor and neighbors helping neighbors. Thank you. Max. I think that we need to continue the increased investment that we've had in sidewalks. It used to be that we do about one mile of sidewalk a year. We've in recent years as the implementation of the sustainable infrastructure plan has gone forward. We've been doing about three miles of sidewalk a year. I think we need to continue that. We've seen the replacement rates be anywhere between 90 and 100 years for each square. I think we're getting to a point though where we've done a lot of the bigger sections and now we need to go back and really focus on those really troublesome individual squares or really do a reassessment of the existing resources to understand that. I'm also in favor of dealing with intersections that have strange geometry and trying to create bump out so that we shorten up those crosswalk distances. I think it's also important to take another look at signalization to make sure that people with mobility challenges have enough time to cross. And I think that it's important to in so doing these things prioritize quick build technology or quick build strategies that allow us to get these safety improvements on the ground, try them, test them, and if they work, make them permanent but not to wait to see a safety benefit when it comes to improving those crosswalks and sidewalks for folks. OK. And Ryan, your thoughts on walkability? Well, I think particularly in recent days, we need to, I don't know how you do this, but coordinate the plowing on the sidewalks because the sidewalk plow will come through in the morning and then your driveway plow will come through and now you can't get onto your sidewalk unless you walk over like a three-foot mound of very icy and unforgiving snow. I also think that with the maintenance of the sidewalks, it's not so much that we need to, we do need to replace full sections of sidewalk and make sure that that effort is continuing and improved. But I think we also need to take a look at the C-ClickFix app and the way of reporting these like sort of localized problems so that even if this section of sidewalk isn't due to be replaced for another five years, you can be like, look, this route is growing up right here and needs attention. I've tried to educate some people of how to use C-ClickFix. It's not the most user-friendly thing and so I think if we can make that process simpler, I think that would go a long way to helping walkability. Thank you, Ryan. And Max would like to take advantage of his rebuttal. Yeah, so I just want to make sure that I agree on that and I'm already doing that in terms of the coordination. On Friday, I went out with the DPW plow driver and drove around. First, I wanted to just thank our drivers for the great work that they're doing. I think they're unsung heroes in our community and I think that they deserve to be lauded for their efforts, especially when you get these big storms. I think the big storms like this create challenges and around plowing. Like when we get a lot of snow like that, they have to switch out the plows for actually the blowers and those take a lot longer. So I think we need to coordinate those. And then we also, as we build more complete streets, make sure that we're including those drivers in those conversations around how we build that infrastructure out appropriately. Thank you, Max. Okay, onto another possibly maybe not a quick question and we'll start with Max. Would you support the Higher Housing Trust fund rate beyond the current proposed penny increase? At what rate and why? So we did look at an additional cost or look at a two cent option at the Charter Change Committee. We felt that given all the different burdens, all the different needs that we were asking for, things like this public safety tax at the same time that as well as the hundred million dollars between the school, the schools and the water that we should try and get it back to a penny, see what we're able to do with that. And then my feeling is that again, going back to this is that we need to continue to look for additional progressive revenue streams in order to take that burden off of those lower and more modern income taxpayers. Thank you, Ryan. I think we need to fund the Housing Trust fund at appropriate levels. I do think that, I agree with this one cent tax raise, but I think we need to look at the burden that we're placing on residents of Burlington, homeowners and renters alike. How much and why is a difficult question? But I think more importantly, we need to look at why the cost of housing is so expensive, why it's so expensive to build, why it's so expensive to live in, and really sort of address those problems. The Housing Trust fund is a great tool in our toolbox for affordable housing. But that being said, I think it's treating more of the symptom than the cost. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, my role with the city as the housing director at CEDO for 17 years taught me that it's all the above. We can't say one versus the other versus the other. But in the case of the Housing Trust fund, it has essentially been frozen at about 200,000 in annual revenue. That's total annual revenue. Since 1990, it was created by a vote in 1990. It has leveraged even at this rate, for every dollar spent, it has leveraged between 35 and 40 additional public and private dollars to create affordable housing that otherwise would not be created. And I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of the homes that have been created are serving people who could never get their needs met through the market. And it's just important to remember, there is a market that doesn't work for a vast large number of people. And if we want to keep people from falling into homelessness, we need to be serious about our commitment to that. And I think funding affordable housing at the local level with state and federal dollars and private dollars is that path. All right. And one last question here. In fact, you answered that last one. So onto Ryan. Okay. Full circle. So how would you make it easier to build new housing and make housing projects more cost effective for developers so that we can really expand our housing options? And we'll start with Ryan. I think that starts with clarifying the permitting process. As I mentioned before, like the big firms, like they have people dedicated to these projects. Like they're like their only job when they show up in the morning is to get the permit through and to go before the, you know, various city boards, all of which have a point and a purpose. And I don't think their, you know, usefulness should be discounted. But we need to make the process clear. It's often difficult, especially for these small developers to navigate the process if you're unfamiliar with it. I think the small developers also, you know, we need to prioritize them in the city. Cause if you, if you want a hundred units, then like one bad unit isn't going to be, you know, you can probably fall asleep fairly easily at night. But if you have five units and you have one bad unit, like that's someone you know, you know their first name, you know their last name, you know their kid's names. And, you know, you just, you care a lot more about it. And it's a lot more representative of who you are and the quality of the unit that you own. So I think if we can help the small time developers out, that would go a long way. Thank you, Brian. Sure, drawing back to my CEDO days, I would say that part of the role that I was able to play because we had a diversity of funding and we had enough staff was to be that kind of development on bud's person for developers of all sizes. So part of that role was basically sitting down with developers and explaining the process, helping them through the affordability requirements because that was primarily what we were charged with, but also providing assistance around issues of ensuring that they make the properties fully accessible and that public transit be considered. And that, you know, the whole range of development issues, it's a really appropriate role for the city to play to help people through the process. We have addressed the process somewhat, but I think, I think Ryan does raise an important point as a city, you know, that's one of our tools is to regulate development and we need to continue to do that. Do it in a way that's fair, predictable and, you know, relatively timely in the way that we review development. And Max. So I've been a supporter of the permit reform efforts, specifically the combination of and the streamlining of bringing the offices together down at Pine Street, that was a huge issue. And I think that that's really more geared towards, you know, sort of smaller people trying to do work on their houses. I think that with the boom that we've seen in development take place, I'm not so sure that it's that hard to do development in Burlington. We have a lot that's taking place in recent years. We're in the midst of a building boom and I think that moving towards more of a by right development strategy, so taking the DRB out of it as the council chose to do it, but that I voted against, because of the lack of strong enough environmental provisions that address that climate crisis, I think we really need to be careful about going too far with removing regulations for developers, because we might find development that doesn't really preserve that crucial balance in terms of neighborhood character and livability within our city. Thank you, and now we're gonna move to our closing statements. Each candidate gets 60 seconds and then we'll have time for you all to meet the candidates one-on-one if you wish. So we'll begin with Brian. Thanks Fran. I would just close by saying that the privilege of serving this community on the city council is one that many people probably can't imagine how gratifying it is, but as someone who came here to go to the University of Vermont almost 40 years ago, raised my family here, chose to live in the Old North End as a place where there's strong community, but where there's room for improvement really is something that has been important to me personally. It's what has driven me to devote my life to this community and it's an incredible honor to be able to serve the people of Ward 3 and I'm really grateful for that. All right, thank you, Max. So I absolutely love the Old North End. This has been just one of the great joys in my life being supporting and advocating for this neighborhood and just showing up for this neighborhood. I absolutely love coming to community dinner every second Thursday in this room. I love the ramble in volunteering for that wonderful community event. It's just a joy to be a part of this neighborhood and have been able to get to know the people that make it what it is and to support and advocate for them around issues that directly impact their lives. So getting sidewalks fixed on Walnut Street or getting someone a covered recycling totter to prevent that wind blown trash issue, those kinds of basic things, making sure that we're really prioritizing neighborhood quality of life and serving our neighbors and making sure that their needs are met is one of the things that I wanna continue to prioritize while also making sure that we have our eye on some of these bigger policy issues around affordability, around sustainability, directly addressing the climate crisis in which we find ourselves, as well as trying to help folks to successfully age in place in Burlington for years to come. Thank you and Ryan. I'd like to begin by thanking the ARP and BBA for hosting this event and all of you for showing up on such a lovely night. I guess I've called Vermont home my entire life and the old North End for the past five and I really love this neighborhood and I think it's incredibly special. And Burlington, no matter what we do, is gonna change within the next 10 years. Whether we like it or not, it's going to change. And I'd really like to be a part of that change and advocate for the changes that my community and my neighborhood would like to see. I think a lot of the problems that we've seen historically are still present at this day. I worry that I won't be able to live here in the next five to 10 years due to increased housing costs and just the cost of living in general. A lot of people both in my community and my friends, people I live next door to have been priced out of this community and I would hate to see that continue to happen. All right, Ryan Nick, Max Tracy, Brian Pine. You guys are very lucky in this part of Burlington to have such wonderful candidates and articulate smart civil servants. Thank you all very much for being a part of this forum. So applause and then I'll turn it over to Kelly. Really, very impressive. And now the executive director of the Burlington Business Association, Kelly Devine. How about a round of applause for our moderator, Fran Stoddard, she's done this for us a few times. Thank you all for coming out. I can't echo Councilor Pines words enough that the city councilors do serve an important role in the city. So this is going to be recorded on CCTV so you can tell your neighbors if they wanna check it out. So you'll learn a little bit more about the candidates. The election is March 3rd and your polling places for this district are the Integrated Arts Academy which is the polling place for Ward II and the Sustainability Academy which is the polling place for Ward III. So we ask folks to really turn out and vote this year and make your voice be heard not only for the candidates but for the other ballot items that are on. It's always a pleasure to work with our friends at AARP. We share a lot of similar commitments to Burlington. We're putting on four of these events tonight's the first one so if you're a real political junkie like me you can keep coming out. Tomorrow night we will be up in the Hill section discussing Wards I and VIII at the YMCA. We did end up canceling our February 13th one in the South End due to lack of interest and then we will be down at the New North End at the Miller Center next week on the 19th for Wards IV and VII. We have some dessert available and so feel free to stick around to that. Maybe you talk to the candidates. I also want to mention on the back of your flyer at the very bottom is some web links to where you can learn more about voting in Burlington. Burlington has same day registration so we don't want to discourage anybody from showing up at the polls. You can find out where your ward is. I'll close by saying our democracy really depends on people showing up and voting with their right, voting their rights on election day so please encourage your friends and neighbors to get out and vote. Thanks.