 Good afternoon, welcome to this special broadcast with Mr. Arjun Ranga who is the founder and manager of Arjun Nagarbatti. It's a brand that's very well known in southern India and very popular part of the daily culture there. Thank you Mr. Ranga for joining us and we're glad you could join us. I apologize for starting a couple of minutes late but we'll make up as we go now. Mr. Ranga, how's been the last 60 days? Yeah, it's been tough but before that, you know, our business was started by my grandfather in 1948, Sri Endrang Rao. He's the founder of the business. The company is called Endrang Rao & Sons. The brand is called Cycle Pure Agarbhati. I definitely like to launch Arjun Agarbhati but that's in the future for sure. But I think the second generation of a family is what laid the foundation for what we are today and thanks to our elders for creating this platform for me as well. So we are into the third generation of our family business now. Just like every other business in India, the last two months have been really tough for us as well. I think in the 75 year history of the company, this is the first time we've had zero business for two months consecutively. So of course just like everybody else, it's been really tough for us but our focus has been to support the government, do what we can in our locality and for the country and support our employees in that time of need. That's what we've been more or less up to. Apologies I called you Arjun Agarbhati but who knows? You may start one. Maybe I am a futurist or astrologer but that was a forepower of being under pressure on time. Tell me why did your grandfather call it Cycle? There must be a story that your father must have told you. Why it was called Cycle? Well I think my grandfather was a visionary. He came from a very humble background. He grew up in Madurai district in a small village called Vazhapur. Had a lot of struggles in childhood as well. Very tough childhood. Lost his father in 1920 during the great plague in India. Had to take care of his family. Very very determined, strong-willed person, willing to take risk, educated himself, killed himself well as well. And then when the opportunity came another time India got independent in 1947. He moved to Mysore from Kurg. That's where he was working and started our small Agarbhati company in Mysore in 1948. Took a big mother, all of them and then started our business in Mysore. They were articulate and very smart man. So very early he realized that to be successful in India you need to have a brand. Small and a small name. Yes. As a knowing that is easy. He wanted to have a brand that everybody would understand and recognize and so he said Cycle Agarbhati as affordable and eco-friendly as a cycle and that's how it came about. And a cycle is called a cycle anywhere in the country. You go no matter what. People see the symbol, they know it's a cycle. The name is very simple and no matter what language they call it a cycle, not just in India anywhere else. And then over a period of time the philosophical values of what Agarbhati and prayer mean, the cycle of life, the ups and downs of life. And it's powered by one's own will just like a prayer is. So there's a lot of philosophical values of what a cycle stands as well for us. And that's how he coined the word cycle in 1950. And he also started a brand called Vasu Agarbhati's in the name Vasu under the name of his son. So my uncle. Yes. So Vasu and Cycle brand Agarbhati. That's what we were. And we are today as well. Fantastic. And tell me what is the size of the Agarbhati market today overall? I think AC Nielsen estimates the Agarbhati market at about 7000 crores today. Addition to that, there's about 800 to 850 crores of exports to over 165 countries. So overall market, so you can say including exports, guesstimate would be about 8000 crores. That's a very size. That's a one point, almost $2 billion industry. A billion dollar industry. Yeah. Agarbhati, right? In their part, I use them in my study. There is a temple. So and I'm away, you know, Sneha is our head of south. Whenever I'm in Bangalore, I requested to take me to a good South Indian restaurant and to take me to a temple. So that's what I do. In fact, I keep saying next life I want to be born in South Indian food. I love South Indian temples. And I do Agarbhati. So tell us what is the next three months looking like? I know the last in Bangalore, Monday the off-smoke point, I could be in a slow start. So if you had to put, though there is no certainty, but if you had to put like if on in February, so 100 units, where do you think you'll be at in 90 days? So if we spoke on 20th August, in the 90 days preceding 20th August, what would be, instead of being 300 would be 150, 200. What does it look like? Yeah, see, I think, you know, I'm not a, I don't have a crystal ball to gaze at. And the way I'm looking at it is I'm looking at it day by day, a week by week, right? Support the government. Day by day, week by week. That's it. I'm not even looking beyond a seven day horizon to be honest. I think this is purely tactical now. It is survival that we are looking for. There's no grand vision. There's no grand plan of what I will do after three months or six months or a year. Trying to put pieces in place so that we can get our product to market. There is no challenge with demand contraction in our industry. It's a daily use product. People pray every day. It's not very expensive. It's light on the pocket. So consumption is not a challenge in our industry. The challenge would be in supply chain and ensuring product reaches retail, right? So we're looking at markets opening up, ensuring service to our trade partners and our channels, ensuring product reaches retail quickly and efficiently and safely as well. So that's what I'm planning. There's no grand plan for what would be next three months or six months, but that's where we are today. And tell me, you know, I'm already starting to get question. What is your father's start of the company with the founder, then grandfather, then your father came in now. What is the difference in the leadership style of, let's say, you saw your father definitely growing the business and now you own the business, you professionalize the business, you enhance the brand, you know, it was already a very well established brand, but you kind of made it relevant and invested in brand building and the product. So tell me, what is the difference in the kind of relationship in the way you talk to your colleagues, your suppliers, your retail partners, your agency partner. Tell me, what is the leadership style that you, you know, kind of taken from your grandfather and father and what have you added on? To be honest, I think the revolutionary generation for our family was the second generation. My grandfather started the business, of course, in 1948. I think by 1968, the three elders in our family, Mr. Guru, the chairman of the group, my father, Mr. Murthy and Mr. Vasu had joined the business already and they were growing the business. They laid the foundation. I think the fundamental premise for the business and the family has been ethical and collaborative growth. Right. So we always grew and our trade partners grew with us. We have distributors who've been with us for 50 years now, our employees, the second generation of the employees are working with us as well. So take the family forward, take the employees together as well and that's been the driving force for the group right from the beginning. And the second generation, I think, laid a solid foundation of trusting employees. This is the time, you know, 1980s, when there was licences, great challenges of material availability. That's when the company was actually built. The distribution network was created. Today we are among the top 20 non-food FMCG companies in India. We have a reach of 15 lakh retail outlets serviced, you know, by our own sales network of over 2,000 people. So all of this, the platform was laid down by the second generation and the way they managed, they always encouraged professionalism. They said one of our values are professional management with family business values. So when I came back from the U.S., it was all on a platter for me and after my MBA, getting my work experience outside to just take it, you know, with the growth of the country after 2000. So I joined the business in the year 2000. So that's how last 20 years, 20th year in the business. 20th year, yes. And I'm sure it will help you. I know it's tough time, but as they say, you know, tough people last, not tough circumstances. In leadership style, I think the second generation was more mentoring generation. They had a lot of patience. They would take their time in explaining situations to employees, help them nurture and grow. I think in my leadership style, I'm in a bit of a hurry of solving problems. So I kind of push my team to come up with results and answers a lot quicker. I think that's something I need to learn from the second generation as well. But I mean, that's my leadership style. Tell us, you have to grow the market. How would you start getting millennials to use Agar Bhatthi? You know, so I think I'm just thinking growing the Agar Bhatthi market, you know, so how I know we all are like tradition oriented. We see what our parents do, what our grandparents do, and then for a period of time it becomes happening. And you know, so how do you enhance the size of the Agar Bhatthi market? What's happened is I think post the year 2000, 2001, once Ayurveda, yoga, spirituality, Eastern culture started to become popular, Agar Bhatthi transcended religion and became a spiritual product. So today, whoever is spiritual, Agar Bhatthi is part of the connect and the world is going through a spiritual wave now. And Agar Bhatthi is not just prayer, it goes beyond. It's for peace of mind. It helps in spatial cleansing. So the, and we did a recent survey about a couple of years ago to understand the modern millennials. And they said one of the things that they connect with their families and their roots is praying in the morning, lighting their Agar Bhatthi and Dya. So I think the consumption is intact for us. There is no category expansion required. The category is penetrated at 82%. It's more about reach and premarization and ensuring that we also go into the living room and other places of relaxation as well. By the way, I read Aroma therapy works. I have a friend she does aromatherapy. She wrote a book on aromatherapy. And she's she's come up with a whole line of a few meaning, which you know, she wrote how Aroma cures insomnia, it cures anxiety, it cures depression. And it was blossom culture. And next time we do possibly carry that book. So what you're saying is scientific, it's not, you know, it does elevate the mood at different times of the day, different kinds of aromas can change the energy and hence change the mood. So it's called the science of aromacology, the effect fragrances have on your mind and your space. So the effects of aromacology are proven, you know, so lavender invigorates you, there's patcholi, there's gingers, there's a lot of beautiful fragrances that can actually very good for sleep as well. Very good for, you know, lowering anxiety. So it's called aromacology and we have a range of products around that under a brand name called Iris, you know, so we have that across the country as well. So in that context, you know, during COVID times, it should be using Agar Bhatthi's board, the cycle Agar Bhatthi and other Agar Bhatthi's, you know, instance fixes, we call them, right? Coming back to COVID, it's a really unusual time. This is the first time the supplies impacted, demand is impacted. So how do you pivot your company? I mean, you are a, as you explained to us, you're a very, very old company started in 1948, but there are younger entrepreneurs who don't have the luxury of cash, who don't have the luxury of, you know, being in the third generation and having seen it all. For them, it's possible the first big crisis they've seen. So what is your advice to entrepreneurs who are dealing with a new normal today? I think I can only tell you what I am going through and what I'm experiencing because no matter how big or small you are, the challenges remain similar. And for us, I think the way I'm looking at it is I am taking a call and opportunity against liquidity, right? So I am compromising an opportunity to ensure liquidity. I think sitting with compromising an opportunity to keep liquidity, that's a lovely headline. Yeah, so that's, yeah, so that's, that's what I'm looking at. I think over the next three months, taking care of our trade partners or stakeholders and employees is going to be critical. So I am innovating a lot in supply chain using a lot of technology to help us, you know, take faster decisions, but I'm not investing money in places where I don't know what the end result will be. So I'm saving cash right now. And that's what I think most entrepreneurs will do at this point of time, focus on their core competence, not take unnecessary risks, because you don't have a foreseeable future in sight. And that's that's kind of what I'm doing as well. And what another thing I've realized is, you know, the bigger you get the decision making kind of starts to get more pyramid, you know, top down. What we've done over the last two months is completely decentralized decision making. And we're enabling our frontline warriors to actually take decisions at the marketplace, even at the supply locations as well, we have a lot of manufacturing locations across. So we have decentralized decision making to a great extent, put in some level of financial controllership to be able to manage that use technology to enable everybody across the supply and the value chain. And I think that's what most entrepreneurs will do. You know, look at their core competence and ensure they secure some level of liquidity. Fantastic. You know, you, you talk about how, you know, I'm seeing as being narrow, focused, you know, doing the basic things right again. So are there any silver linings in this COVID times? For example, if you were hesitant to do certain things in the past, because you were too timid or you told yourself, you know, it can't be done. Now, you know, a lot of things we said can't be done, can be done. Right. It was only our mindset that was stopping us. So tell us, is there any silver lining in this sort of saying COVID times? No, definitely, I think one silver lining is the fact that the company is strong. Their employees are amazing. They're all banding together. They all came forward. You know, I was, I had tears in my eyes yesterday when one of our state teams messaged me saying that we don't want to get our incentive this month because you took care of us last month and can hold back our incentives for the company's sake. Now, these things I would have never have imagined that level of commitment and passion in our employees. And our trade partners as well, they said, you've been with us for 50 years. So, you know, this is the time we have to stay together and we will do what is required. I think, you know, the strength of a brand, the strength of an organization is actually reflected in crisis. And for me, the way each and every one of our stakeholders came together, supported each other, contributed to community. There is a guy in Bihar, my sales representative, he earns 15,000 rupees a month. He is going out there distributing food packets on his own with his earning. And that's the level of satisfaction I get that the values that my founder, Shri Endang Rao, prescribed has percolated through the organization. And that's something that I learned the past couple of months that you're only as good as your people and if your people are not there, you're nothing. Fantastic. I think tough time show you are on your side and bring out a certain character in people. And as long as the intent is good, everything else matters. Coming back to looking ahead in the future. Now, have you cut down on the brand building aspect? Because the demand is lesser or zero. Supply side there may be a disruption. So what are you doing about your brand building? Have you continued to build the brand or you put a pause to your brand building activities? Not definitely not going to put a pause to our brand building activities. I mean, brand is our life, right? And we need to communicate our brand and what we stand for. But I think the way we focus the way we allocate our resources is definitely going to change going forward. If you look at our below the line communication, our POPs, our danglers, our in-shop promoters used to have so many things happening at the storefront. That definitely is going to change. Consumer buying behaviors have changed. The way retailers, social distancing has to be maintained. Those challenges will definitely be there. So those budgets are definitely... However, on the other side of the pyramid, you know, above the line spending on brand building, either on television or on cricket or on media, that will definitely have to continue after things come back to normal. I mean, like I said, opportunity at the cost of liquidity. So I'm not going to pull money out of something else and put it on media, which I cannot measure at this point of time. Because I don't know if I'm going to be able to sell the products. I think in our category, the worst thing to do is to advertise and not have product in the shelf. So first focus is to get the product in the shelf and then advertise. Fantastic. One more question that has come is that over the next 12 to 18 months, do you expect the other monthly market to grow? And if yes, why? Or it will stay sitting? Now, if you talk in the context of well-being, because as well-being and self-care become more important, what is the role and incense thing or Agarbati has to play? See, the Agarbati today goes hand-in-hand with prayer. So wherever there is prayer, there is Agarbati and wherever there's Agarbati, there's cycle Agarbati. So that's a given as added to that, the category per se will definitely continue to grow and emerge as rural market starts to pick up. But what is more important for us to understand is that this category today is essential but non-essential. People will continue to pray, will continue to use Agarbati in all its formats, be it do, be it Samrani, be it Kone. So consumption will continue to increase going forward. The industry has been growing over the last six, seven years. Once supply chains come back to normal, Agarbati will continue to grow and new categories will also get added like Aromachology that we were just discussing. So people will start using Agarbati beyond just prayer, also for relaxation and peace of mind. I think the category is only going to expand. I don't see any contraction happening at all. Fantastic. This is another question. If Aromachwapi can uplift more, it can be a stress reliever. Why can't you ensure that e-commerce setups deliver Agarbati to people who want these impacts? I think all the e-commerce platforms are developing Agarbati right now. I think once the government allowed non-essential delivery, even our website Cycle.in we're doing really well on our e-commerce platform. We have almost, you know, three times more enquiries when we're closed. So Cycle.in is our online e-commerce platform. We're also available on Amazon and all the other platforms as well. So products completely available on e-commerce and I think you should go and look at our create your own incense category as well within Cycle.in where you can customize your incense, choose the fragrances that you want, you can play around, you can customize your packaging. Beautiful. I'm going to go to your site. Cycle.in. There are lots of questions. I mean, 12 questions already. There is Manasi KG asking, what is your marketing strategy for the next quarter? What has changed? How do you plan to influence the market? What about online personalization service for cycles and incense picks? This is the online service which you've launched. Deepak Ghatke is asking, you had multiple epidemics. This one was unprecedented. There might be other epidemics that may follow. How should one's business be prepared for future? These are some of the questions that are coming at this point and I can take the first. What about the marketing strategy for the next quarter? Like I said, there's no great strategy. Taking care of my employees, ensuring my product reads the shelf, ensuring supply chain integrity is the key. Not looking beyond 2-3 months, very tactical at this point of time, on-ground reality, market to market, what is containment zone, what is not, which distributor can operate, who cannot, which transporter is available, who is not. So there is no great strategic thought here. I think it's predominantly tactical, delegation or responsibility to the front line, enabling decision making, quick decision making that is. And that's what we are looking at till this entire pandemic passes and we are returned to some state of normalcy. You have one more question. How do you compete and succeed as a family business against large corporates like ITC, for example? So you already in some way explained that you're a large brand or the trust of people. It's a 70 plus year old brand, 72 years now? Yes, 1948. So 72 years. Deepak Gandhi is asking, how do you compete with players like us? You know, look at it as competition, right? Any player that comes into the market actually helps you become better and improve. So that's the way I look at it. I think you are your own competition after you read a certain stage. You need to keep setting new benchmarks and pushing yourself to achieve newer and greater things. You know, all in all, you know, we are here to help the consumer and deliver and value. So as long as you continue to deliver value and consumer starts to see quality in what you create, I don't think you should worry about competition. See, for me, market share or no market share is one thing. But as long as you continue to fulfill customers requirements, continue to get appreciation letters from your customers, telling them that you're making a difference in their lives, you know, that I think that's all that matters. You know, this question has been answered in some way. Bharat Vui asks, Agar Bhakti is an orthodox practice in the country and cycle brand has a huge impact on this orthodox practice. Will you put money on this category for spiritual practice, which will grow the market? That's a question I asked you. Dr. Parag Amin is asking, have you about thought about launching a special cold proof Agar Bhakti that has camphor turmeric ginger that is supposed to boost immunity as part of leveraging on the opportunity to get back in there? Operation CK is asking, how do you see the hospitality industry opening up opportunities for your product? Right now, the hospitality industry is not open, my friend. A.G.V. Narayanan is saying, do you foresee he incense sticks in the future? Adwet Kurlekar from Pune is asking, you plan to diversify into anything related or you believe focus is important going forward. The management consultant, we know that he is asking, what would be your advice to others who are facing the anxiety and how do how does the common citizen deal with this? So these are these are then there are questions around modern millenials which have asked, A.G.V. Narayanan saying cycle has become a generic brand, the brand does it stop you from diversifying using the cycle brand? These are the kind of questions that give you. There are comments also, for example, somebody saying, you know, for years we've been using cycle brand, and great to see you maintain the same high standard. This is from PSN. Okay, great, so you can ask me any one of them, like I have you take the one that you see in incense stick coming up and second is you're leveraging on the cycle brand and launching new kind of variants or you know, launching a brand extension? We have, you know, cycle is the mother brand, so we have over, you know, 200 different SKUs catering to different markets, different fragrance preferences. We have a brand called Lea, we have a brand called Rhythm, Sandalum, Woods is our premium handmade handcrafted incense. So we have an entire basket of products. What I'm not going to get into is the therapeutic benefits because we're going to stick to aromacology. I don't want to get into medicinal right now, but I'm going to stick to aromacology and the benefits of fragrances have on mood. What we've done as a brand as well is extended cycle into puja samagri. So we are into kunkum, turmeric, dhyas, githyas, puja oils and all of that. So the entire puja room space we are trying to operate in. We also have puja samagri kits, you know, if you want to do a Ganesha puja, you can order a kit online on our cycle.in website. You want to do any puja at home with your family, you want to teach a child some tradition. So we have all of those kits created already and you know you can order them online. So what we have done is on one side we have expanded into the spirituality and well-being and the religious space. On the other side we've got into fragrances and home care with our air fresheners under the brand name of liya, bathroom care under the brand name of stopover and lifestyle air fragrances under the brand name of virus. So kind of leveraging on our fragrance creative competence. So we are all perfumers by nature. My grandfather is a perfumer. My father and uncles are perfumers. I'm a perfumer. My brother Kiran is a perfumer. So we know how to create fragrances for Indian conditions and we are local perfumers. We use the best ingredients. So fragrance creation is our competence. It's a core competence for us. So leveraging in our fragrance creative competence, we have launched a whole host of products in the local market. So to say if I had to put a headline, you smell an opportunity in the near future which has come about because of the current circumstances which he was not looking at, say before 15 parts. And suddenly the last 60 days have made you smell an opportunity that didn't exist. So show us how in these times also, while you said you're living for the day, you're living for the week, you're focusing on the basics and protecting liquidity and not going after opportunity. But some of the opportunities that you've seen, you may address them at some stage. So I think the opportunities are within my own core competence. I think that's what I'm looking at. I don't want to go into things that I'm not clear about. Like I said, fragrance creative ability is a core competence. Another amazing thing I realized is the ability of our operations team. In a span of five days, they converted one of our fragrance filling lines to start making hand sanitizers. So today we have our hand sanitizer brand in the market. So I'm seriously looking at that as a big opportunity going forward. With home care, you also have a lot of added products that come in which is in the sweet spot for us because it is part of our competence as well. I think that's one thing that's come about which I would not have done at the space at which I'm doing right now. Fantastic. Now, there is one more question that has come in. Question on Ganpati Pooja, since you raised that. How is it performing? What were the challenges and how did you overcome the challenges when you first got from Manasi? Manasi wants to know. The greatest challenge was the fact that people did not understand that it was a one kid that kind of covered the entire gamut of the Pooja. I think once the user started understanding the product, they started to value it and hence today you know during the Pooja time we always sell out of the product and there is a niche clientele that actually keeps reordering the product as well. We have sent it to the US. I think it's more an international product. People who don't have access to pandals and mothers who know tradition actually kind of engage with that product a lot more. It's available even today though. You can order it on our cycle.in website. Good. If you have to make two predictions for the future, what would those be? Two predictions, I think. Prediction to your business or overall co-business? I think God exists. Please continue to pray. Cycle brand will be there to support you 100 percent no matter what. That's one prediction that's there for sure. I think the second prediction, I think the country is intact. Believe in our government, believe in our country, believe in what we have today. No matter what happens, India will survive whatever pandemic we're facing. Beautiful. God exists. Continue to have faith in God and if you have faith and believe in something, it happens. You know, we know about the effect medicine lab but we also know that there is a placebo effect and that works in faith religion also. If you believe that God will look after you, if you believe you're lucky, then you do get lucky. You have hope and then you make it happen. And as he said, Cycle will be there. There's one more question that has come. Kavya Bharati is asking, in this new normal, what would you consider as relevant mediums to engage with your end consumer going forward? What is the media mix that stays and what is the new media mix? You were told there is a new media mix. Now I think still, I think no matter how you look at it, television still happens to be the biggest medium for you. You've seen what Durdas and did with Ramayana and Mahabharat during the lockdown had the highest rating and highest viewership as well. That being said, I think digital is really important. Digital budgets will definitely get relocated after the COVID. Looking at different opportunities, either advertising on digital or creating your own content. I think creating your own content is what the future will be about. You need to learn how to start creating in-house content and getting it viral and communicating what you stand for. I think that's something that most companies will start doing. And I think quite a few examples globally who have successfully done that as well in our FMCG space. No, you're a business owner. And in the last one week, the prime minister, the finance minister, all have given us an economic stimulus, an economic packet. And they've tried to address compliance, liquidity, reforms. You know, they've tried to address supply side first and hopefully demand side. Also, they've tried to address the weaker section and go for the bottom of the pyramid. So what are the expectations you have as a business owner from the government? Now, I think my understanding is the government is an administrator. He's not, government's not running my business. It is my responsibility to take care of my people and my business. The fundamental role of the government is to ensure its 1.2 billion citizens don't feel helpless at any point of time. I mean, that's the responsibility the government has. And liberty has to stay intact, which I think our government has done wonderfully. It is a responsibility for those 300 million below poverty line people in India. I think that's its fundamental responsibility first. Second would be to businesses and in businesses, the micro and small businesses, which are single owner, you know, less than 5, 5 employees who are struggling day in and day out. Those traders out there are almost 10 lakh traders in India. I think the government's responsibility is to the lesser privileged youth in the country. And I think it is done, it's best to take care of them and ensure that the epidemic or the pandemic doesn't catch on to masses in India. Because if that would have happened, you know, we don't know where we would have been. So my business, I believe, is my responsibility. My people are my responsibility and I need to own up to that. And I can't expect the government to come and save me at any point of time. And that's my view. You know, I do a show every day on 6 to 7. It's a business world, a news show. And I said exactly the same two days back to a panelist who said from the QSR sector that, you know, the government hasn't done any. I said, you build your business on your own and you have the capability and the government is doing its best that it can. I mean, so I think I echo your sentiment just to, so just to guide you, that media industry is overall looking at a loss of, depending on which media you are definitely overall 60% loss and in some cases 70-80% loss of revenue in the last two months, right? So what do you think you work with media partners? So do the media companies who are carriers of your brand messaging, your ads, whether it's in the television format, newspapers, magazines, digital. What is your message to your media owner partners? Oh, we definitely will continue to build our brand. Just ensure that the efficiency and cost effectiveness is delivered and ensure that, you know, that we create new properties that are exciting to customers. I think value addition is the key today. Innovation is the key, even from media standpoint. How can we make sure that the consumer gets what we stand for in a shorter form at a time? Because if you look at consumption on media, everything has come down to 10 to 15 to 20 seconds. And if you look at newsprint and on magazines, it's all small format ads and cost-related communication that is becoming the order of the day. So I think feature ads is something that will become important because everybody needs to tell the story. What I've understood today is that purpose-led, meaningful brands are what consumers will want to look at. People who are making a difference in society. People who are making a difference to the society they are in for contributing beyond themselves is what consumers want to buy into. And the media can partner with companies to tell the story. I think those are the media partners that companies would also want to choose. Fantastic. Look at more value for money, cost efficiency, and try to reinvent yourself for the needs of the new consumer and also to the new budgets. I will ask my last two questions and take some more questions. How are you dealing with competition in the unorganized sector? Agrabatis, you know, I buy Agrabatis, I'll be more conscious of buying your brand next time. I go to the Vinayak temple in Saranginagar in Delhi, the Ganesha temple. I go to at least four South Indian temples. And I just pick up Agrabatis with the diet to speak. But I'll hopefully pick up a cycle brand in the other panel. But normally, you know, is there a level of involvement with the brand? And how do you see? I'm sure there is. As once you discover a brand and the quality, what it stands for, you kind of tend to go back to it. But how do you deal with the unorganized sector? You know. Yeah. So in the Agrabatis industry, there is a huge segment that is small and there is an equally big segment that is big. So whether it's organized or unorganized is left to debate because there is no outlet in India that does not have Agrabatis. So each and every store carries Agrabatis, it reaches the store and all of it is packaged. There is some loose unpackaged Agrabatis that has now come into the market, which I don't think is a long-term thing because consumers will buy products that they can trust, that is packaged properly, that is hygienic. I think that's one thing that we will start seeing going forward is that branded products, brand products that people can trust their safety and retailer service is important. Those products will start moving forward. So I think in our category especially, we will see a shift, you know, from unbranded or to branded, not unorganized to organized. So unbranded products will reduce, branded products will definitely start increasing in our category. I think we being on the forefront of that, being a national brand gone beyond South, we will see benefits of reaching the retail outlet at the right time. Fantastic. Now, if I have to ask you in the last few months, two and a half months, two months, what has been the biggest challenge in communication? I know we have more Zoom webinars in our feeling. I'm talking to you and it's become a way of life. But why this is the upside? What has been the downside in communication? Now, I think the biggest downside is human contact. The way you sit and talk to somebody face to face, the way you are able to express, the way you're able to see people's expressions when you communicate, that's very important. That's been, I think, a very big problem going forward because most Zoom calls today we are on Microsoft Teams, by the way. So most Microsoft Teams calls today are without the video. So you actually don't see what the other person is saying. I can only hear them. So that's, I think, been one of the biggest drawbacks of not being able to actually read the actual body language of the person sitting next to you and communicating whoever it could be. But isn't it was, I would not do a job interview without physically meeting the person. I had to meet a customer, I had to meet them. Even in the office, I'd say to a colleague, why don't you hop over to the conference room or I'll come to your cabin or I'll come to your desk. I think, you know, while I miss human contact, but we're doing fine. So I agree that we miss it. There is no, you're in my age, you're too used to, kind of sitting across each other and being in the present, being mindful, being face to face. But I think we're getting by. And as the only challenge that you are, do now find it, that, you know, are in screen time, which we wanted to minimize has actually gone up. Yeah, where are you? For my children, whether it's for me, whether it's for my parents, it has gone up. So, which has its own disadvantages, right? No, so for me, I think the biggest problem has been in the entire video conferring, conferencing, communication is a transaction. You ask a question, you get an answer. There is no explanation, there is no background. You don't get that. In a physical communication, I used to be able to establish some level of history. That cannot happen today. The moment we get into a meeting, there is a presentation that's put off on the screen that is shared, and then we start discussing 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4. It is a lot more business, a lot more professional, because people have to be precise in their communication, a lot more today than they were when you're sitting, you know, in a conference room setting. Here, there's a time frame, there are other people as well who need to get their point across. Everybody can communicate, which is a big advantage. So if there is a negative that I see, it is that, you know, a little bit of human, what do you say? I wouldn't want to use the word humanity, but it's become more transactional. Yes, I understand. Empathy has come down. I think that's an important point. We should have gone up, actually, but it has come down. Yeah. So, I wonder, what does leadership mean to you? You already said, but Simran prompted me to ask this question again. What does leadership mean to you? I think a leader is one who can inspire and, you know, who can get things done without telling people what to do. As long as your team can do what they can do without you telling them what to do, I think you've done your job as a leader. I mean, that's been my simple understanding over the period of time. And that's what I learned from my father and uncles as well. The build is a great organization. And very seldom did I, you know, see them telling people what to do rather than tell them, you know, how to do what to do. So, I think a leader is one who can get things done without telling people what to do. And I believe that's my style as well. I'm also a very detail-oriented person. I think that sometime is detrimental. I get into a lot of details, which sometimes de-focuses the team. But I think in the long-term, you know, the bugs are in the details. Fantastic. There's one more question that has come from Purnima, you know. What are the key markets in tier 2 and tier 3 that will become even more important for story? Now, I think the key markets are rural for sure. And today, rural connectivity is really bad. You know, only about 30 to 40 percent of the transportation is actually working today. And going forward, we don't know when secondary transportation is actually going to come online. So, I think rural India, tier 3, tier 4 cities, population 50,000 to 1 lakh is the future growth opportunity for the nation, not just for our company. And that will happen as supply chain routes start to open up, which I'm thinking is going to be at least three to four months away and not immediately. Fantastic. So, Purnima, what he's saying is that the tier to tier markets will even become more important in the medium term as long-term. And hopefully, the growth that cycle is looking for, cycle brand, whatever he's looking for will come from those markets. My last two questions before we end this conversation. First is what is the change it has brought in you as an individual? You as a person, of course, we heard what is the change it has brought in you as a business owner? That's my first question. Second, you know, I keep saying this economy has become a 3C economy. We can make it 4C cycle also. But it has become a caring economy, a collaborative economy and a contactless economy. Tell us, how do you imagine the future of these 3Cs? And as I asked you, how has it changed as you as a person? We know you. No, I think, you know, our family values and motto has always been to give back to society, right? Our family has been running a school for blind, visually impaired girl children for almost 30 years now. We do a lot of work with about 14 slums in and around myself. We do a lot of social work and contribute to society. And I always never realized the impact it would have had during this COVID, we did a lot for the community as well. And I didn't realize that I had so much of giving in me as well and what my uncles and grandfather inscribed in me. I didn't know I had it in me not to give back to society. So we did a lot. You know, we contributed to the PM CARES fund, almost a crore and 8 lakhs. We donated 5000 N95 masks from 10, from 6, 7,000 face shields to the local community, helped so many migrant laborers, helped tribals in Nagarore forest, you know, with food and all the employees across the country. So I think for me, my inner revelation was that there is no, you know, you need to help people without them knowing that you're helping them. And that's where, you know, you really know that you can make a difference. And for me, the fact that I had it in me, I didn't realize that till the last two months I've kind of taken it for granted. But I think contributing to society and helping people is something that is paramount and that's what I think we'll save humanity and ensure that we all pass this epidemic, you know. Fantastic. You discovered that there was a lot that you could do without, you know, thinking consciously about it. It just came out naturally, subconsciously. Possibly extended your own value system into that in your brand's value system of being a community product if I may use that. At this point, I'd like to bring Simran. Simran is, you know, our senior editorial leader. And she brings out a page and she was very close with me and now I'll let it stay up. So Simran, if you'd like to ask a question to Mr. Ranga, please go ahead. As I just, good afternoon. I just wanted to know you're very involved in sports, you know, with IPL and also with the local T20V. So sports sponsorship is very big. You also mentioned that TV and sports is something that now the uncertainty and you don't know whether you will have viewers in the stadiums. How are you looking at this entire sports sponsorship part for you? No, we started to look at cricket as an opportunity, I think around 2003-2004 when we wanted to get national presence. One thing I've learned about cricket is unless you're there year on year continuously, you cannot don't get, you know, visible. From 2004-2009, we were continuously on cricket and that's when people actually started recognizing us. So very expensive proposition. On hindsight, if I had to go relook at it, I may. But now, when I think about it, one of the big reasons why we've become a national brand is because we've been present on cricket. And why cricket? Because we believe that cricket is a religion in the nation and cricket unites the nation. So when India is playing, everybody prays and they pray together. And that's when cycle had to be there. And then that was a very simple thought and then cricket has taken us beyond, you know, just the Pooja Room and it's really inspired our trade partners, inspired our field force as well. When you see cycle lagerbati right there among the top brands of the country, you know, it kind of reemphasizes who we are and what it stands for as the largest brand in the nation. Fantastic. I want to ask a book that you want to recommend to our viewers. I'm sure you had some time, you know, you started in the U.S. You know, you look like a guy who also reads, you know, though I can't see a bookshelf behind you. No, I'm just in front of me. It was a book that you recently read or any book that is a favorite that you'd like to recommend? No, I think one of the first books of I read about family business was the IBM story, you know, the Watson and Junior. So that was one of the first books I read. Leah Icoca's book was one of the first books I read as well about business. That's kind of stayed with me for a long time. Over a period of time, I've read a lot of different books, but more about business and business improvement. Leading change by Philip Kotler is one book that I really liked. I think that's something that helped me, you know, when I came back around 2003-2004, I used that book as a guiding philosophy for me when we're trying to implement some ERPs in my organization as well when we needed a culture shift. So I think over a period of time, different books have given me company at different points of time. I think right now a friend of mine has given me a book called Business Classics by Tom Butler from Pranam. Just look at that. Show us the book. Show us the book, I just think. I think it's a reverse mirrored, so I don't think you'll be able to see it, but... Tom Butler, I haven't read this book, sir. Yeah, I'm sorry. A friend of mine gave it to me just today. So, but, you know, my dad had recommended me to read this, so I was just trying to go through that. Yeah, this one I've read because it's got a more provocative title. And a nice cover, a nice cover. But, you know, I want to ask my question, you know, I come to Bangalore a lot, and I, you know, I go to temples a lot, I told you, and I love South Indian. Both of these are true, absolutely authentic. So I go to a temple, I know you're from Mysore, right? Yes. Your family's from Mysore, right? The home of incense, yes. Yes. And I go from Bangalore to Mysore, and I go, I stop at a, I go to pray at a temple in Khodamallu, Chenkapatni. It's a Navneet Krishna temple, when Lord Krishna was a baby or a young adult, you know, whatever. And on the way back, I stopped at the South Indian joint, you know, the name, you know, when you come back from Mysore to Bangalore, the Lokaruchi Kamat, I think that's probably... Kamat, that's the one. That's the one I stopped. And it's the most tasty. In fact, my friend joked with me, that I actually don't go and, don't just go for the gods. In the temple, I actually go for that food. It's not true. Of course, I go for the, for my, paying obeisance to my order, and then come back and of course, enjoy the food. So we enjoyed talking to you today. We wish you luck in your mission to bring calm in your mission to make sure that the prayers are answered. And we hope that the prayers of 130 Lord Indians are answered and we are able to come out of this difficulty soon. And as it's a delicate balance between lives and livelihood, I hope next time I'm talking to you, both lives and livelihoods are secured. It's been a pleasure talking to you and I wish you and the cycle brand, and your colleagues all the best. Till we chat again, Mr. Arjun Ranga, thank you for being on an exchange for media pitch talk, brought to you by APP News. And we hope you continue to use news channels apart from cricket to be able to get your brand out to the mass consumers. We wish you luck and till we see you next time, numbering. Thanks. Thank you so much, Dr. Anurag. It has been a wonderful experience to be out there, believe in the nation, believe in that we're going to pass this pandemic and only together can we actually survive. Anurag, I keep saying that, I heard it from somewhere, it's not original, that storms don't last, dreams don't perish. I hope the storm won't last long and dreams will actually become stronger. I believe in that. I keep telling my colleague that this time is not for flattening up, it's not time to be sad, it's time to reinvent, it's time to build on whatever we've caught and do the best and live for the day. The best people are, they don't have a plan, you know, a couple of days and you take things as they come and you know, you make the best of it. And I also believe, since you recommended a book, I would recommend a book, but Eckhart told the power of now. It's about mindfulness, it's about staying in the moment. While I was looking at the phone for questions, I actually only like to look at because it does, it does make an impact to me, you know, to my brain on what you're saying, what I'm receiving, you know, processing that and being able to have a conversation which is deeper. So that's the book I'd recommend to everyone and you know, books are a lifeline. So we wish you luck and again, thank you and sorry for the two-minute late start and calling it, you know, Arjun Agarvati. Who knows? Who knows, your son will launch Arjun Agarvati. And Arad. Doctor will launch it Arjun Agarvati, we don't know. No. There is a lot we know, there's a lot we don't know. There's a lot we don't even know that we don't know. That's a good thing. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much. God bless you. Thank you for meeting us. Stay in touch. Doctor Anurag. Stay in touch. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you.