 Right afternoon folks downtown home with Ted Ralston here in our think tech studio with our show where the drone leads and today the drone leads to the island of Lanai and One might wonder what that's all about Lanai Probably isolated population isolated island with great thoughts great ideas and great leadership coming out of that island and Before we get started. I just want to say that I'm unusually dressed here today I don't have a loha shirt on but I have on my my gang attire my UAS flight crew shirt official shirt from the local power company. I thank them very much and it's kind of a Signal of what's coming to pass here change is coming to pass people are beginning to use unamanned air systems drones or UAS in daily operations and thus the power company has now a Flight crew and t-shirts for those of us who were associated with that What on our show today? We're welcoming once again who's been on before George Purdy George Purdy from many Affiliations on the island of Lanai and Maui and frankly the world at this point in time at George welcome aboard A lot in and welcome Hawaii stay away. How are you supposed to do it out there today? Only thing we got wrong here is George when you talk your lips aren't moving. So I don't know what's going on here Anyway, it's a freeze frame of Skype, right? So that's what it's all about George is currently serving in the Maui County fire department in particular on the island of Lanai at the Lai Airport and through that affiliation and connection and Several years worth of working in unmanned air systems and working with them in terms of public safety George has really acquired a great insight in how to adopt And adapt new technology into a legacy system based on the instant command system George ran an event recently on Lanai that was probably maybe one of the first in a country or an unmanned air system assisted a Public safety agency and operations at an airport at an airport folks really at an airport George tell us a little bit about that exercise how it came to pass and what you learn from it. Thanks Ted Yeah, so We had actually a plane crash two years ago some county workers at night that crashed on the island of Lanai in 2014 I've already been interested in drones to see how we could use them in the fire service so that night that the plane actually crashed I Actually had a drone, but did not want it did not want to use it based upon the knowledge I have already of the FAA working at the airport with the state of Hawaii That evening, you know, I made a promise to myself that one day I would be able to follow the rules work on the exemptions and actually fly the drone legally and one of the hardest air spaces Oh Currently right now is at an airport and two years later. I was able to pull it off using all the current FAA rules Going back to two years ago You did follow the rules and didn't fly the drone right because the rules at the time wouldn't have permitted you to fly it So you behaved accordingly Yes, I gave accordingly I stuck to my training what was current at the time being taught in the fire department, which It's okay. It's good. It worked. We saved lives. So for me to eventually move down this path in Creating the section 3 2 3 and working with it that I wanted to see the future of fire departments Actually use drones in a proper way the right way and legally. So that's what I've done in Working with FAA and it took me two years It wasn't where that I went and got a 3 2 3 and we actually went and flew the next day at an airport No, it took time. It took two years and one year of planning once we knew that the Lana Airport had his triannual aircraft drill to test the response of The island's resources so for something as people might think as simple or as straightforward as introducing a new piece of technology Into an existing operating system It took you two years one year of planning and one year of preparation in order to get to the point of even doing an exercise Yes, exactly and it was even for me just learning about the Whole terminology and learning where my community was at and in number one it came down to the community I needed to build community support in to be able to educate them on the use of a UAS and how it can help and You know, this was local people that actually got injured and actually passed away on his aircraft crash at night 927 I mean we found them in 12 minutes based upon Normal training and our execution of search and rescue But I believe in having a UAS that 12-minute response time I could have cut it into half six minutes. So that six minutes bothered me for two years Knowing that this technology is going to get better and one day we can have a quicker response time So what George what you did is you understood that had that that that personal effect that pain so to speak and And and determination to go make something different, but but do it within the rules Don't try to break through or do something crazy that's going to get in trouble But just do it properly and do it in a sequential fashion There's a maybe the case and there's a lot of community involvement and what you indicated is community involvement is number one On hit parade of things we have to do in order to take something like this new technology move it forward Exactly Ted. I mean the more you get your community involved. I mean the place that I work. That's taxpayers and public travel traveling folks that actually pay for my paycheck, so By educating the community and them fighting for you to have this new technologies the way to go We shouldn't be shoving new technology down the community's throat without educating them what we need it for Because when it comes down to tax dollars if it's worthwhile your Taxpayers will fight to get you this technology if it if they see it fit You know You said something to resonate so I can intersect for a minute here quite quite well We heard from Hawaiian electric about a year ago, and we heard just Yesterday from one of the major major landowners here in Hawaii that the first thing they do when they hear about drones or UAS They bought and buy some and then after they bought them now they're saying well, what did we actually buy? How do we actually use this? Well, who's got the policies and procedures who's got the liability coverage who's got the training who's got the New additional manpower needed to put something like this into play So people often reverse the order of execution here and they go buy something like this first and then try to figure out How use it realize they can't use it and it sits on the shelf and the year later It's obsolete so what you've done is you've broken that paradigm you twisted it around and you've actually Got in the community to take the interest and and move forward with a request that dysfunctionalty be provided Rather than a provider come in and say we're going to go do it So you've turned it totally around Exactly and that's what I saw was a problem on the mainland when I was studying What's happening and all a negative response that the mainland folks were giving you know their emergency service department So I took that and once I figured out that was the problem I went and knocked on every door had conversations but in my community and Then I actually developed the section 3 3 3 plan I actually wrote exactly what they wanted from a community perspective. So eventually I know I would get community backing I did not go out and buy my drone, which you know in actuality There's many drones out there. It's the integration is how do we Get our local fire departments to just have that eye in the sky They don't need no fancy drones and you know several hundred thousand dollars. I basically can make a package for less than under 10 grand and That is the key it is a lot of just dealing with the paperwork Learning aircraft terminology so that these operators can communicate with a man aircraft. So what that's where the disconnect is You know George, you got a lot of bright ideas and I have to interject every now and then to Put a bit at my pace But what you said is something also very important rather than think of the paperwork and the procedures you have to go through And all the rules you have to understand and certifications You have to get as barriers you take them as an avenue or a channel forward And that's that again is a different way to think than what you'll find most people thinking about most people look at those Procedural issues as barriers and as I can't do this because but you've taken it and said I can do this because So if that's still if I'm my interpretation is correct how do we take what you've been able to develop in terms of a thought process and an approach and Bottle it how do we distill that down to its essentials and and and move it forward with but if we spoke of this morning You and I are on the phone with the International Association of Chiefs of Police last week we had the similar discussion with the International Association of Emergency Managers next week You and I'll be in Alaska together dealing with this in front of the Alaska UAS team and the Fairbanks police and such So how do we take your experience and make it transferable to others? Well, one of my ideas is Dealing with your local community your local backyard getting that support putting positive articles of use and things that you have gone out and done in public events to Demonstrate Good things that UAS can do For us for me in the fire department I use what we've done in the past and how we always improve I've taken scenarios and actual real-life events and Looked at it From a point. Well, if we had a UAS what other decisions could we make and then I try to explain that To all the public and first responder resources of the island that is we had this UAS at this time what other decisions that we could have made so you take something that Happened in the past at UAS with a little bit of knowledge of what it can do today And you see light bulbs start clicking and turning so you I like to put it in real life events That's my key take something simple nothing too drastic and Get their wheels turning and then have them come and tell you a that's a great idea So you're sort of following a path of what you might call virtual lessons learned The lesson learned was when you didn't have the drone or the UAS and you're going to convert that scenario into a what-if Which sort of does become a virtual lesson learned now things aren't always going to go exactly as planned Did you have any deviations from your plan or your script or? New things that came that you came across in this exercise at the airport that that we should hear about Yes, so basically like as a fireman, I always try to have planned a B So plenty was fireman's all problems. Don't think Yes, yes, we have to because I would do want to get home at the end of the day or in an emergency to my family So I always have planned a B and C so plan a was if everything was perfect Internet service as well that I will be able to transmit a live transmission to my incident commander Who's on another island and then that way they can also now activate? Professional resources to come to my island actually help because our aircraft that comes to Lanai could be four hours One to four hours out So in that scenario that we the internet service something to do with some aircraft Equipment around the airport our internet signal was cut off. So we went to plan B. So we went down to a lower Internet service go back for a minute George Let me go back and analyze a B and C again, but let's pick up B after we get back on our first break They're halfway through our program. Okay, Aloha. This is Maria Mera and I'm here to invite you to my bilingual show Viva Hawaii and think tech Hawaii every other Monday at 3 p.m. We're here to inform motivate and entertain you join us Hola, soy Maria Mera y estoy aquí para invitaros a miso bilingüe Viva Hawaii and think tech Hawaii Ka two lunes a las 3 de la tarde estamos aquí para informaros motivaros y entreteneros apuntaros Aloha, I'm state senator Russell Ruderman. I represent the Pune and Ka'u district on the big island and the host of Ruderman roundtable We're here on think tech Hawaii every other Tuesday at 2 p.m You can join us at think tech Hawaii comm you can find a link there to To a page where you can see past episodes and we talk here about good government Environmental issues and issues of the day facing the state of Hawaii. I'm Russell Ruderman. Please join us for the Ruderman roundtable mahalo Back live here folks Ted Ralston in our studio downtown Honolulu think tech think tech studios where the drone leads in this case the drone leads both to the island of Lanai and from the island of Lanai out to the World in terms of information being transferred out We're just talking to George Purdy of many affiliations one of which is the Lanai fire department part of the Maui County fire And we're just talking about the approach that George takes as a firefighter in terms of solving real problems With enough depth in the solution and enough variation in the solution to accommodate anything coming at you so George you went through this exercise of UAS supporting a simulated air crash at the airport and you were telling us before the break about the Need to have multiple paths so that as something changes circumstances changes technology fails, whatever it might be The you can switch to the other other tasks. So how do you go about deciding when to make that switch? How do you inform or notify the others that the switch is going to happen? And then how do you follow through? great it so I have plans a B and C so Plan a is if everything works out perfect internet service is great live video feed live streaming to my incident commander So if that goes and has a lower internet speed So next thing would be just taking pictures emailing pictures to my incident commander off island If that doesn't work, I can actually take pictures with the drone actually pull up the SD card for plan C Actually hand it off to the operation section chief Which he and then can tell send somebody to actually the fire station who has a hard-line internet and also From that point send out the information So we were able to send out this information If we had to within less than 20 minutes if we had to actually go even to plan C And so with the with the at back at the EOC, which is probably on my way I suspect Decisions are being made based on the information you're providing them Information that you are supplying is going to be a function of the availability of in this case the internet or other Connections to handle the white band or the narrow band as the case may be so the information coming into the EOC is going to have a different quality and a different Latency depending on how you are succeeding at the at the incident in so as that change type that type of change occurs How does the how do the EOC adapt to the changes that you must make on your end? Well on my end what I expect from my EOC is that I spend less time Communicating verbally trying to describe the scene when I can send them live video feeds live pictures and those pictures speak for itself So I cut down the time of spending trying to explain what I need when they can actually visually see and through our training and Background they already know the next step and that's what is important right that we're right there We slash half the time. Okay, that's incredible. So you splash you provided expressive visual information in whatever form you could as it turns out video or stills Either transmitted live or after the fact as fast as quickly as you could but whatever The system would support you would get information over to the EOC a system in understanding the circumstance you were facing Validate what you're saying to them and supply you with resources and ideas as the case may be Based on that higher level of information. Is that a layman's explanation of what you went through? That is exactly right And you know in a plan just cut in a prior conversation you outlined that in an incredibly brilliant way you called it the search and rescue space and I was struck by that definition George because That is like an unbounded. I mean a space is unbounded So that search and rescue space by virtue of you providing information to somebody on another island that search and rescue space Suddenly is expanded they could send that information forward to yet another place for some kind of analysis so the the Dimensional limits on that search and rescue space expand as your ability to communicate information out is and the I'm still understanding this that the the broader understanding of what's inside that search and rescue space and therefore what you might need Or the issues you might face in the next five minutes or ten minutes would be evident much more quickly to people who are supporting you Yes, and the key word is I you know what we were taught in the incident command system is you know Designate your space so calling it search and rescue or recovery space those key words Already triggered through our training in the fire department. What's already going to happen? What do we need is it a rescue operation or is it a recovery? So it determines the speed just in those key words But it's what our department has trained all this time and so when you identify you give precedence to that space so under you using UAS and you use those terminologies it puts precedence and It eliminates all of three people know what you're doing and that's the key word in a very short And you just aligned yet again another Stroker brilliance here. Don't alter the ICS system Don't alter the framework of training the things that have occurred or a part of the legacy understanding of hot operating Enhance them and don't replace this just work within that system So what you've done is created a method of incorporation of new technology without disturbing Disrupting the existing system exactly Yes, and that's what they've taught us and that's what sometimes cracks me up when The higher ups kind of look at it and they actually look at too much into it and they actually taught us this and I Pose it back in another question and all of a sudden you see the light bulb goes off and it goes oh Okay, I got you it's not that bad and using looking at UAS. It's a tool now That's all it is and that's what's been unique in the last six to seven months Is people are looking at drones as a tool so now it comes down to communication your paperwork on how to maintain the drone how to use it properly and The rest is history in my eyes people are moving forward and that's what's great That's happening and what I'm seeing for Hawaii now what I like what you Taught me and taught us and I think will teach the rest of the world is to once again retain the system You've got of a command structure enhance it by new technology going in make sure that the people who are receiving information Understand it and understand the limitations and the liabilities associated with it for that matter but furthermore Through the these virtual lessons learned that you're able to now create By simulated exercises and by taking past exercises that didn't have unmanned air systems in them And add them in analytically It's possible in my mind to take that Total capability you've defined and find where it could be enhanced further where could technology come in to make it Faster make it more depth in the information provided provide additional automatic analysis along with the visual analysis And that's the material that are that are pan-Pacific unmanned air systems test range Complex can take on to develop tasks to get funding by companies and by agencies to go develop those pieces of technology So be beyond just defining what is the art of the possible today? What you can do is help Outline where those future needs might be it could be beyond line of sight They could be in terms of two uas operating together could be uas operating in conjunction with the ground system I don't know what those dimensions might be but but that's what you've provided us the foundation Foundational basis for is in now and a framework. We can look at where the future might want to be Define tasks and go get them developed from a technology perspective Exactly Ted. I mean the foundation is set. You know, we've flown in the hardest airspace And we did it safely and that's the keyword safe operations And that was just a simple video flight now exactly what you just presented is now where we can grow And so we've already got the foundation We've got the foundation to operate safety And that's the place where we could start bringing the kids in through STEM programs and such let them see what we're dealing with And help inspire them to figure out how to get past the barriers that we see Yes, and not only that now they start building a resume based upon this those are our future firemen Policemen emergency services folks that will take over my position Monday So that's the key now. We are leaving a pipeline or a legacy or a professional path From kindergarten to be in a professional fireman Monday and that police men or emergency management That's a really important element here FAA and everybody have identified that we don't have an adequate workforce to take on This new complex domain called unmanned air systems Certainly, we don't have the the critical thinking to take us into the world of more secure malicious proof communications and such And dealing with standards that are going to come out of the various standard committees and such So we needed a inspired workforce. We need workforce development We need workforce Creativity and that has to start in probably the seventh and eighth grade levels, I would guess And uh, maybe even lower than that So I can take it all the way to the kindergarten Okay If we wanted to and so this is a part of our educational system And this thing goes back to the very beginning of the conversation the community involvement because involving the schools involves the families And the community organizations Boy Scouts, civil air patrol that sort of thing So you have like a you've looked at the problem from an entire system perspective and solve it at the system level At least you've imagined what the solution might be george Now in a in a quick few minutes we have before we run out of time here You and I are going to be on the stage together next week in in alaska Telling this story and working on how to convert your experience and my experience and others experience into the elements that would come up to define training needs training requirements that are pan pacific Unmanned air systems test range complex can take on So we need to think about that together But I think you've inspired greatly how to how to think about the problem and the think about it is to Use existing systems and channels use existing ics as your framework and use a lot of real world and virtual experimentation as well as as well as Exercises as such in order to find what works and then find those dimensions where the future has to be to fix those things that don't work So george, and that's what it wants Yeah, exactly FAA Really leaning leaning forward to try to find out where that's going to come from So I think this is a strong leadership function and position that That can be used with the FAA and also with companies and such that one of the things developed We can do them right here in a way. We can do them right here on what I Your favorite island and um, oh, yeah, so the the opportunity is right in front of us to go do this well Yes, I just only hold one key to a lock and it takes many keys to open this door So I look at it as a team effort collaboration effort Together as united as we can be we'll get this done no problem That's great And I really appreciate the fact that you've taught us that keep your expectations under control In your case two years two years of dwell time building things up not an unreasonable expectation So people we should all think about that. Let's not think we're going to make something change tomorrow It's going to take those couple of years to go through all the processes and get them there Next opportunity george and we can talk about this next week when we're together, but uh You and I will both be on airplanes next friday coming home Or going places after the conference in alaska. So uh, neither I nor you will be on this show next week, but uh Michael modus will be here along with uh kind of uh, and uh, him and his and we're going to be they'll be talking about a a non-equally traffic solution a non-equally traffic problem solution Experiment with uas so I think that what we need to do is get you and mike it together because the The operational procedures and such you develop would fit perfectly In the non-equally traffic situation certainly the community involvement Component and the stem educational component. So we need to have you and mike. I get together When we're all back and figure out how to make this thing go forward Okay Perfect. Yep. Hey george. I want to thank you again for about the fourth time you've been on this show Always by skype next time you gotta when you're here in december you got to get on the show for real Okay, right here right here. Yes, I'll do that. All right, man I'm actually coming in on the thursday, right and we'll see you sunday on the airplane You sunday. Okay. Thanks a lot