 Hi, I'm Nate Adams, often known as Nate the House Whisperer and CEO and co-founder of HVAC 2.0, which is going to play really solidly into this video. So I realized I really haven't ever told the story of how we have chewed through the really, really thorny, wicked problem, Gordian knot of residential electrification. So I wanted to tell the story of that journey so you can understand where it is and at the end we need a little help, finally to the point where we actually can ask people for help to do something. So this is my journey to solving big asterisk, the wicked problem of electrification. So odds are non-zero and it wasn't that long ago. This was dumb and dumber odds where, what are the odds of a girl like you and a guy like me? It's one in a million. And the answer is you're telling me there is a chance. We were at one in a million and frankly finishing residential decar by 2050, the odds are still darn near 0%. In fact, right now today, they're 0%. I have no idea how we get there. What we're going to talk about at least begins to pull the odds up, but we may be looking at more like 2070 because we really need to be focusing on any HVAC system out there, any water heater out there needs to have a heat pump in it when it goes in or be electric in one form or another. So but I digress. This was very kind of Panama who founded the building decar coalition. He called me the father of electrify everything. So certainly, I mean, I can say I, but it's way more than I. It's very much a we. My partner Ted Kidd has been heavily involved here. I mean, he's been leading the charge with me behind the scenes. And we have had a lot of help from a lot of people doing this. But hopefully that title can stick over time because of scaling residential electrification. And this is a webinar that I gave back in January of this year, 2021 about how to sell heat pumps to contractors and homeowners. And it is very much not the path that anyone's thinking of. It's extremely counterintuitive. So we're going to go through the path of figuring that out. But before I dig in, I love this quote from Teddy Roosevelt complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining. So we have tried not to whine. Sometimes yeah, we whine, but we have proposed solutions left and right through this whole thing. So going to touch on what those are. So here's this is kind of the outline of the story we're going to be talking about. Key steps. So I used to have an insulation company. It failed. We'll talk about why we propose an efficiency program out of that failure. We developed a market based sales process for selling substantial retrofits. And that's what you need in most Northern climates. About half a house is a Northern climate. You really shouldn't just pull a furnace out and put a heat pump in or you're going to crush people with $1,000 electric bills in January and February, which is not great for the grid either. So it's not a smart thing to do. But we developed a sales process on the ground doing the freaking projects. So we pulled 10 gas meters in Cleveland, Ohio, which has some of the cheapest gas in the country. So if we can do it there, we can do it just about anywhere. And some of those people were motivated by environmental concerns. A lot worked. We just ran the math like, okay, this is the better way to go. All right, let's do that. And then we did a propane oil and oddly enough a corn furnace removal. So kind of wild on the corn furnace. Building science onboarding. This was something that, like, there was no easy education to learn building science and building science is the bedrock on which electrification sits. If you don't understand it, you're going to, you're going to hate yourself, both as a contractor and a consumer. Creating resale value for efficient homes. This is going to be critical to scaling period and the story. So wrote an article about it in 2016, created a calculator for it in 2017. It still isn't becoming normal, but mark my words, if we do not fix resale value, we will not scale complete electrification because you have to tighten homes in colder climates for them to work well with the heat pump. Heat pumps have smaller outputs. And then started electrify everything movements, you know, through the electrify everything group and so forth and not started but helped with. We've been working hard at creating an invasive business model within the HVAC industry because the only way that things are going to change to full electrification are going to be if it's better business wise to do so. And it really can't be just a little bit better. It needs to be a lot better. So it needs to act like an invasive species. We live in West Virginia now and kudzu is a real problem here. So like a beneficial kudzu, if you will. Without a heat pump policy proposal that was cheap, effective and fast and the OEMs actually like it, which is pretty magical. Who knows if it'll happen. I hope it does. But I've come to expect nothing from policy. I expected either not to happen or for it to her be the only outcomes. And this is a boots on the ground are really important and that understanding critical. And then currently what we're really working on is scaling heat pump and shell retrofits through HVAC 2.0. So you'll notice that I have a very one track mind on HVAC 2.0. And in discussions, I'm going to beat people up over it. If you don't have actual case studies selling projects and doing them, shut the hell up because we do. So if you can find another path, great. But we've looked and this is the only one we know of. That's it. So all right, wicked problem. Want to define it. So this is a concept that I really like because holy cow does it apply to residential electrification. So we have the issue of every problem is unique. There's no clear problem definition. How do you even put lines around the thing? It's multi-causal. So there's multiple causes, multi-scales that's running at different levels. And it's interconnected. Everything you do messes with something else. It's kind of funny this got duplicated. So there really is no clear problem definition. Multiple stakeholders with conflicting agendas. So when it comes to electrification, I mean, we have homeowners, we have contractors, we have utilities, we have governments. We have OEMs. Like there's all of these different stakeholders involved that all want different things. It straddles organizational and disciplinary boundaries. I'm just about to record the first episode of a podcast called Boundary Spanners that is aiming just at this with Abhi, our policy director. Every solution ramifies throughout the system, which means everything has cascading secondary effects. So there are lots and lots of, my mind's blanking on the word, unintended consequences. And so that's really tricky. That's totally true with building science. You change one thing in a house and a whole lot of other things change. Solutions are not right or wrong, but better or worse, 100% in building in science and HVAC and all these other things. They can take a long time to evaluate solutions. We've been at this since 2012, really trying to fix this. Problems are never completely solved, totally true. So this is really nasty. And the general idea is you don't know that you solved a wicked problem until you solve it. You just have to keep plowing forward and working through it. I mean, I view this a lot like flight. We really knew that they'd solved it until the Wright brothers flew. And so you have an idea of what works. You have a vision of what works, but you have to actually go do it. And wicked problems are incredibly hard, hence they're called wicked. Another way to look at it is the Gordian knot. So this is Alexander the Great, and there is this giant knot that nobody knew what to do when he comes up and he cuts it off and called it a day. So it's a metaphor for an intractable problem solved easily by finding an approach to the problem that renders the perceived constraints of the problem moot. That is what we've been working on finding. Now it's not easy at all. So here's a couple of the pieces of the puzzle that are involved in the Gordian knot. So this just came out right before I recorded this. This is tongue-in-cheek, to a degree, but this is from ACHR News, which is the biggest magazine in the HVAC industry. Let's ban gas furnaces, and he talks about this being tongue-in-cheek. Unless we start pushing back in our local communities, we will wake up and find our only option is to own an all-electric home heated by wind and solar. Yes, that's exactly what we want to have happen. Will there be peak times and winter where we fire up some gas turbines? Uh-huh. We're not getting rid of those for a long time. Maybe there'll be hydrogen at some point, but for a while it's going to be natural gas. It's a peak here and there doesn't matter. I had one client who had a pickup truck in a Prius, and he felt so much guilt about the pickup truck. How much do you drive it? A thousand miles a year. Who cares? It doesn't matter. And that's very much what peaker plants are like. Who cares? We will work through those. There's a meme on that, the one where the one girl's looking jealously as the guy's, you know, about some girl's butt in front of him, and everybody's argument is over the last 10% when basically there's widespread agreement on the first 90. So we'll worry about the last 10 when we get there. So that's kind of wild. Another piece of the Gordian knot, what does it take to electrify everything in your home? This was written by my friend Justin Gway and also Justin Gurdies for Green Tech Media back in 2018. So Gway was working to electrify his house in the Bay Area, and it was a nightmare to figure out, an absolute nightmare. And keep in mind that the electrification movements is by far the strongest in the entire country in the Bay Area, and you can't find somebody to do it. Do you think we have a problem? And oddly enough, we became friends after this, he spurred an article I'll show later about how to remove your gas meter that I wrote for Green Tech. And so we ended up working together and we electrified his new place in Utah in a very cold climate, and it is working fantastically. So it can totally be done. He's got the only badass HVAC system in the West for the moment. All right, so here's pieces of the electrification Gordian knot, and this is not everything, but we have contractors that are afraid of heat pumps and weird failures and advanced equipment they haven't seen before and callbacks and all kinds of things. We have consumer fears. Is it going to work? Am I going to get that $1,000 electric bill in January or February? We have manufacturer fears. Is this going to cause a whole bunch of warranties? Well, what's it going to do to our product mix? How is this going to work? The good news on the OEMs though is they all make heat pumps, or almost all are just like gas boiler companies that don't, but all the big OEMs make heat pumps. So the good news is they don't fight this too crazy hard, but we have a lack of education problem across the board. We have efficiency programs getting in the way. So a friend of mine electrified his house in Michigan and didn't get a rebate for anything because it was a fuel switch, so the gas company wouldn't do anything, and then the electric company, I forget what the reason was, but they just ran right through the middle. There's all of these programs that are actually hurting full electrification, although I'm okay with hybrids. I don't love it, but I'm okay with that. But there's programs that are in the way left to right. There's a whole lot of existing policy that's pro-gas. Electrification is almost always the more expensive path. It is a much harder sale to make because it's more expensive. 85% of residential HVAC equipment is single stage, which means it's a piece of crap, low end, builder grade, as we call it. Builder grade is the cheapest crap that you're allowed to sell. And that is 85% of equipment that's sold. So getting people to spend more is a harder sale. And there is a higher risk of callbacks. If you put in a high efficiency piece of equipment, variable speed, and you don't do some thinking on it and some modifications, it does have a pretty high risk of failure. And then most importantly, there's no business model for doing this. So if it isn't easier and makes more money, basically it's substantially better than business as usual, it ain't going to change. It just ain't. There's one program that I know of that's been around for at least a decade now that competes with the HVAC 2.0 program. I looked at it. They have nine contractors in the whole country. That's not scamming. So we need thousands of contractors pulling in the same direction for this to happen. That's all part of the Gordian knot. So our hope and what we have been doing is designing the HVAC 2.0 program. So it's not explicitly about electrification. It's just that heat pumps solve or help solve a lot of problems for people. They make more comfortable homes. They can control humidity better, which keeps houses drier and healthier. Like there's all these things that interconnect. Remember the multi-causal and everything? There's all kinds of things in there. So we think the HVAC 2.0 can do this. And you can be mad at me and be like, Nate, you're self-promoting. Fine, if you want to look at it that way. But also, we've pretty much cracked this nut. We have a scaling problem now is most of what we have. We have an education and scaling problem more than anything, which we'll come back to. So I wanted to run through the actual projects that we've done just so you can see these are real houses. The first four are all-century homes in the Cleveland area. So this is called the Hiram College Treehouse. It was a house that was donated. And we turned it into the Environmental Studies Department for the college. Pretty cool deep energy retrofit. It was such a hard project. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians on this one. It was really hard. I almost walked away from it a couple of times. 2014, this was the first electrification done the way that we wanted to. So this has not quite bad SHVAC, but it was a precursor. We didn't have some of the ductwork as big as we'd like. But this house works really, really well on a three ton heat pump. This is the second one that we did with electrification. Sadly, this client passed away because he was so fun. This was a great project. He was just game for everything as we went through it. So little old house in Cleveland. This is a habitat project. This is a ranch house for an architect that I work with pretty often, named Hallie Bowie. And this is her old house, which is now her mom's house. And we put a three ton heat pump in there, 1960s ranch. She had already had shell upgrades. We didn't do anything extra on this. This is my cousin's house. He didn't do much in the way shell upgrades until a little later. But he was game for pulling his gas meter. This is Hallie's second house, which you can see is pretty close to net zero. She's got a big solar array on this thing. And this is one of you saw me tweeting on Twitter in the cold snap of winter of 2017 to 2018. We had two weeks where it was really, really cold. And I was sweating bullets with these systems out there. And they all worked fine. It was totally fine. It was scary, but fine. Yeah, they burned some resistance, but you're going to expect that when it gets really cold. This is the first new house that we basically electrified. So this builder wanted to solve comfort problems and moisture problems he was having, which pushed him towards the electric side. And so we were doing this right as RMIs report about the cost of new builds and being electric was coming out. And this thing actually using less energy than was projected. So pretty cool. Very happy clients. This is another one of Halley's clients actually named Brad. And Brad ended up going spray foam everywhere on this thing. So this was a multiple year project, which happens on these pretty often. So every year we did something. The first year we spray foams the ceiling of his garage, which is behind the trailer here. And then it was a really cold day. We shouldn't have been spraying foam. But we did anyway because the siding had gotten pulled off the day before. So we pulled all this fiberglass out and foamed it. This house is running really, really well on a three ton heat pump. This is a little condo that I did a little bit of air sealing on myself because it was too small of a job to even bring anybody in on. And this has a two ton heat pump, which is actually oversized. So the common walls in condos can really reduce loads. And that totally happened on this house. And note, that was my volt. That was her old volt. She has a new one now. Kind of fun. This was a house that had a oil furnace, which we changed to a heat pump. And it's working really well. And they added this dormer as well. Kind of a fun project. This is the corn furnace. That's the container for all the corn that she burned over the winter. And then this is a skydiving engineer friend of mine. He'll be probably coming to stay here in a month so he can jump off the bridge here in Fayetteville. But we electrified his house with a three ton heat pump, pulled a propane furnace, actually two propane furnaces to do that. This is another one of Halley's projects. So Halley, you are definitely a theme through this. So thank you. So these clients went to Halley's second house, the one that had the solar panels on it. Same with the people that had the oil furnace. A really important piece of people getting comfortable with this is going and seeing, oh, this is familiar. It's just a twist on it. So a standard unitary heat pump looks just like an air conditioner, only it's on legs on the outside. And on the inside, it looks just like a furnace. It just doesn't have any pipes coming off of it for combustion. And so both clients went to Halley's house, touched the units, and thought, oh, this looks familiar. This isn't scary anymore. And they both pulled the trigger. So this also is running on a three-ton heat pump. And we tightened the snot out of this. Didn't change much in the insulation aside from the attics. But we got this house way tighter than it was originally, despite adding several hundred square feet to the house. So pretty cool. And what we learned through all of this is the path to this, I can't stress how narrow it is and how fierce the drop-offs are on other sides. So I looked for a picture of a path that had fierce drop-offs on other side and found this. We really have no room for missteps if we want to finish by 2050 period. Like, we have to be incredibly careful about what we do. So you're going to see me being a jerk sometimes. So if I go and I take your head off, it's because I know that you're pushing us over the side. So we know a bunch of things that we shouldn't be doing. All right, so we'll go back to Mr. Roosevelt and proposing a solution. So you're going to see that coming through here. So here's my history. 2019, or 2009 to 2013, I had a little insulation company because in early 09, my wife and I both lost our jobs within two weeks of each other. I worked for fiberglass manufacturer, and she worked for a graphic design outfit. And it's just boom, boom. So I started a company. And the problem was it was designed to make money day one. It wasn't designed to grow, which I didn't realize. But I had two trucks for a little while, was working on having two crews, never quite got there. The ironic thing is I made the best money doing the worst work, which sucked. And then as I was doing that, I was working with the gas company rebate program, which ended up, now that I look back on it, actually hurting things a lot. But I kept getting their reports, and I didn't understand what a lot of them were. So I went and I got BPI building analyst certification back in 2010, which made me what's called a five-day wonder. So you take a class for five days, and you come out the other side, and you're like, I can solve anything. No, you can't, because nobody will buy it. And if people don't buy it, it doesn't matter. Treatment plans that aren't executed with dead patients, pointless. And that is sadly what comes out of almost all building science. And it also takes companies out at the same time. But I was pushing hard then. So 2012, I won the Century Club Award from Home Performance with Energy Star. This is my crew. That's me, 10 years and 40 pounds ago. But I aimed at this and got it. I was doing 100 projects. And there aren't that many contractors across the country that do this. That year, there was like 30. And I think there's like 50 or 60 now, something like that. But you can get it for just installing a bunch of HVAC and getting $400 rebates, which oftentimes is free ridership. But it ended up just burning me out, trying to do that. So I was working 80 hours a week, sometimes 100 hours a week, trying to keep a crew running 30 or 35 hours a week. My wife one day looked at me and said, Nate, can I have an evening a week alone with you with your full attention? And I told her no. And as I said that, I knew this is a problem. And then she was pregnant. So something had to change. So I was burned out. I was losing money. The last year, I made $25,000 for the privilege of working 80-hour weeks. That was stupid. And unfortunately, that's kind of what happened. So I wrote this article, Confessions of an Insulation Contractor. And this is what made my star go up within the home performance world, because so many people were feeling the same thing. They were just burned out. And this was the beginning of us seeing again and again and again that building science is a great way to go out of business. And that's a real problem because building science is the primary solution to full electrification. Some houses, you can just change equipment, but a bunch of them need to be air-sealed and insulated to pull their heating load down enough to where a heat pump will do the job. And so that failure was also caused to a large degree by the rebate programs. It changed how I would do projects. So now I do projects very different from then because I don't chase rebates. And the curse is when people are like, ooh, free money, over here is the right way to do it and an actual result. Over there is free money. And as soon as you show free money, ooh, everybody goes over there and then things don't work. We've watched this again and again and again and again. In efficiency programs, if you go look at their realization rates, so say they predict that you'll save $1,000 a year, which is high, but just for the sake of argument, $1,000. A good one will actually save 600 of that, so that's 60%. California sometimes was in the 10 or 15% range, so they'd promise you $1,000 a year in savings and deliver 100 to 150. If that's okay with you, I'd like to borrow 10 million, I'll pay you back 1.5 tomorrow, fair and square. And so there are all of these issues with the programs that drove us nuts, so we suggested what we call one knob, which is, it frankly won't work now because this was aimed at saving kilowatt hours and now we're paying attention at what time of day things are. But it was adjust what you will pay for savings. And you can still do that to a degree, it's just one knob, but don't change all of the other things underneath the hood that change the kitchen table transaction. That is death for contractors. And we've watched this again and again and again and again, program scales, it looks good, people come on, they change the settings, contractors become dependent, and then they change the rules to the point where the contractors can't sell stuff anymore or the program dies and the contractors die too. So it's a don't feed the bears problem. We don't wanna feed the bears. That article also got turned by Steven Lacy. There was a four article series into this piece, which is I think my first piece that happened in Green Tech. And as all this is going on, I'm learning how to do this deep retrofit at the Hiram College Treehouse. Now the funny part is this project cost about 150,000, the next project cost about 30, and this project uses 30% more energy per square foot than the other one, so kind of wild. So design really, really matters. We were not involved in the HVAC on this one. I didn't know enough yet and somebody was already involved and it was a weird fight and I just backed out in the end. But this was also my last contracting project. I still own my blow machine then sold it to who is actually now an HVAC 2.0 contractor in Rochester. So hi, Jeff. And so I blew this insulation myself as the last thing. I also dense-packed the walls of that house. So I know how to do the insulation work, I've physically done pretty much all the work. And then I was down to my car, so this is all the crap jammed in my car. And right at that same time, we were thinking a lot about sweet spots and how low-hanging fruits, it's where people, they wanna do just a few things to make a difference, but the reality is it's a path to hell. If you just do a few things that you think will make a difference, it doesn't make a difference. You really have to hit these projects hard before you move them enough to notice. And so we really view low-hanging fruit as poison. Plus in almost all areas now, there really isn't much low-hanging fruit left. So the stuff that is there is poison. It will end up hurting things, not helping. So very important. And so this is back in 2015. That was also when we perfected the retrofit sales process. So it is based on the Sandler process, really important, because if contractors don't adopt the Sandler mindsets, and it's kind of a cool mindset because the idea is, if you ever feel like you're selling, you're doing it wrong. You're just asking people what bothers you, okay, great, tell me more. What is it worth to solve that? Okay. If I can solve those problems within that budget, do we have a deal? And then you go and design a solution to get there. That is the basics of the Sandler process. So you shouldn't ever feel like you're selling. And so we adjusted the process that I'd been playing with selling those other projects. And I was with my friend Griff Hagel out in Yosemite going to the dry climate conference as the only what climate guy, human climate guy, or one of the very few. And I annoyed the heck out of him by saying to the car, I think I've got it. I think I've got it. Like the pieces were clicking in place. And those pieces turned into all these case studies. So on EnergySmartOhio.com, you can go look at 11 really detailed case studies. Cause I wanna make sure that you know we did it and that we understand why it worked. And in some cases why didn't? Cause there were some things like the house of the future, Paul's house that had a humidity problem, which was really tricky to figure out. And so that's an important thing. What we ended up finding though is the closing ratio. So basically if you come to me for a plan on your house, over 90% of the time you were going to execute. This is freaking unheard of. And these are large projects. The average projects upwards of 30,000. And remember these are not huge houses, not high value houses in Cleveland. Average house was 22, 2,300 square feet. And so getting there, now this took a while. Some of these projects didn't close for a couple of years because people either were waiting for the bother the more we're finding the money. But this is unheard of. So you know how I talked about Kudzu? That's Kudzu right there. And we're seeing closing ratios through HVAC 2.0 that are just messing with minds. I'll get to that at the very end. All right, as we're going through all this, we were looking for feedback loops. So we are rabid about finding feedback loops. Cause how do you know something works if you don't get some kind of feedback? And it's nice to get feedback from consumers because the consistent thing we hear from our clients is I can't believe this is the same house, which is cool to hear, but I want to see numbers and understand what's going on and why. And so I got really excited. This is called the aware, which the first gen turned out to be just a turd. I really hated that product. Second gen's okay, but I still feel my anger for that. Cause it gave me so much hope and then shattered it. But I could see how these air quality devices would really be helpful in the sales process and in helping understand if things were working or not. So it could it be a catalyst for residential efficiency? It hasn't been yet. There is a product that's out right now that gives me some hope called the Zoa Haven. But it really has, these haven't moved the needle that much aside from like wildfire smoke and CO2 with COVID has moved things a bit, but until the pandemic and some of the wildfire stuff, no, it didn't do anything. And so in watching all that stuff come out, I got my hands on a whole bunch of these. Part of these are thanks to Linda Wiggington. Again, there's a whole bunch of people that were involved in this. Linda runs a program called ROCCAS, which is reducing outdoor contaminants and indoor spaces. And so she sent me a bunch of them. So I got the CO2 monitor, the dialose, the spec, and then this radon monitor from her. And then the other ones were mine. And I compared them all. So I didn't have a reference instrument. I just had a whole bunch of low grade instruments, although the dialose is pretty good for particulates. And so I just figured I would wait for an event where I knew something bad was happening and then see how everything reacted. And the FUBOT I originally didn't like. I didn't think it was an attractive product. The AWARE is a really beautiful product. But I didn't like the FUBOT, but that one did the best. And then it was kind of funny because LBNL ended up following my work and they found the same thing. So I think they were inspired in part by it, but it was really kind of wild to beat a national lab to some research. But I really want to understand what was going on. So this is part of us just digging in and trying to peel this onion and understand. And air quality is so important for public health. Keeping particulates down. I mean, there's just news articles coming out now that COVID rates are much higher in places that have wildfire smoke because it's weakening people's constitutions. That it's hurting their health and making them more susceptible. So keeping humidity under control, CO2 levels under control, and particulates under control are super important. And so it's part of what we designed into all of our projects now. And we're not for those devices, we wouldn't have found out, but we got these nice feedback loops. So in 16, we had also watched a couple of our houses get sold by clients and they got nothing extra. And we're like, wait a minute, this isn't good. You can't go spend 15, 20, $40,000 on a house. And then when you sell it, not get it back. That's not going to be scalable because that's going to require people that have large problems that are likely going to stay for a long time. And that shrinks the market to like this. So if we want to see residential electrification scale, we need to make homes worth more if they're more efficient. Because if they're more efficient, they can probably run on a heat pump. But I mean, I want to put solar on my house in Ohio. And I think I might now because now we've found a path to keep it for a long time, we're Airbnbing it. So it's actually making us money. But I'm sitting in the fifth house that my wife and I have owned in 15 years of marriage. We don't stick places really long. And so if I put a $30,000 solar system on my house up there and I sold it in five years, I'd be lucky. Even with the tax credit and so forth, I'm probably going to take a $15,000 hit. That's not compelling. That takes money out of my account but also my retirement accounts. And I don't like that. That's not something that I want to do. And so it's not compelling. And until we change that, we're going to have a real problem of scale. I honestly don't see any path as things stand right now at breaking 200,000 retrofits per year. And keep in mind, we're building a million a year and most of those are just okay, bill wise. At least the codes are starting to get better but there's a lot of looking the other way when it comes to code stuff. And so that's frustrating to watch that a lot of houses are being done and even if they're being built well, a ton of them are getting gas furnaces. So we need to solve this whole problem. And to Teddy's point, we went and we built a calculator. It's really simple. It's really basic but it had no budget. We based it on a department of energy dataset called the building performance database and you can plug in your house. It's only four inputs. It's your square footage, your zip code, your electric use and your heating fuel use, whatever that is. And then it will calculate what your energy use intensity is, how much you use per square foot. And then it will compare you to other houses that size. And you'll see it's pretty crazy scattered here. And here's where this particular house landed. And then you can see what the assumptions are. 1600 square feet, climate zone five, which is where I am. Cleveland, Denver's in the same climate zone. 13 cents a kilowatt hour, 9,300 kilowatt hours of usage. 975 therms at 70 cents a therm. So it shows you what the annual cost is. You can check that. So you put this stuff in. So I mean, it's square footage, zip code usage and then cost. And from that, we can pop out. So zone average is 127 a month from this. And this calculator is not perfect. There's some issues in the algorithms, but again, it was free and we were just trying to build it for demonstration purposes. But that house costs a bit more to run. So in theory, it's gonna cost $11,000 to run that house more than the average over 30 years. So this present value, that's gonna be too high, but say that'll adjust the value of the house five grand, something like that. This is how we create resale value. And in some cases, we're going to destroy it in some of the older houses, but at least if they make upgrades, they can pull that value back up. But again, if we want to fully electrify in cold climates and half of natural gas usage in the United States is in nine cold or cold-ish states, we can't solve this problem. It just is. So resale value is critical. And I've been talking about this for years, starting to see it happen. So there we are proposing a solution. Another piece was in learning building science, it's really hard to learn because there is no starting point. Everything's 301, 401, 501. And that frustrated me because the basics of it are really not that hard, just like most things. The basics of most fields, if you do a good job creating the building blocks, it's not that hard to understand to get your head around. So I wrote what's called the home comfort book. And this assumes that you're intelligent but know nothing about building science. And it brings you up to enough speed that now you can go read some Joe Steebrick. You can go read some Alison Bales. You can go read some, oh shoot, I can't think of, Henry Gifford. You can read some of this more advanced stuff and actually hang. But what surprised us was I wrote this for homeowners but HVAC contractors love this book because it gives them the solutions to problems that they previously didn't have. They think about the box. They think about the indoor unit and the outdoor unit and maybe a little bit about the duct system but they don't think about the house. And this helps shift their attention to that. And it also helps shift their attention to why better HVAC is really important. So this is HVAC 101, it's the second chapter. And this compares the HVAC in your car which is awesome to the HVAC in your house which generally sucks. And it helps you understand what the differences are and people end up buying much better HVAC once they understand why. The cost difference isn't that massive between a single stage and a high end piece of equipment. I mean, it's two grand, four grand, something like that. I mean, it's not nothing but we're not talking tens of thousands of dollars difference between them. And so this really helps out and this has ended up being a bedrock of HVAC 2.0. The problem was we realized we can't train enough homeowners to do this because you can't do it one by one teaching them how to fix their house. There's just, there's not enough time. This needs to be done by people to do it again and again. But there aren't enough energy auditors for it and energy auditors often don't have the right mindset for this anyway because it takes more of a sales mindset than it does a technical one. I'm just an okay energy auditor, I'm B plus. There's lots of better diagnosticians out there than I am. But my job is to help figure out vaguely where the solution is or more than vaguely, communicate risk, communicate costs, and then go do stuff and hit that house hard enough that it's likely to happen. So we aren't aiming for low hanging fruit. We're going for the top branches and then things happen. So the problem was spent all this time, this is about two years of my life and a bunch of money and hasn't made much back. Like most of this work that we've been doing has been passion. I mean, and it's, I get tired pretty often. I just think, boy, why am I doing this? I could go do way better in a different industry. So it can be tempting to leave. But this is a big problem to solve and it needs to get solved. But the Wright brothers didn't make a bunch of money as they figured out how to make an airplane fly. That was difficult and fairly expensive. And so that's what we've been going through here. This is nine years of work now. And just to repeat, building science really tends to hurt companies. So we needed to find a way to apply this stuff in a way that doesn't kill companies because in general, if you get into the home performance world, you die. The example I use is, I can't think of five people in the entire country in the home performance business that break $100,000 a year. I can tell you five in my home county in Ohio of HVAC contractors. So this has to be profitable. And right now it's not. And what example of this? Next Step Living, which got a hundred million dollars of VC capital. Well, it's venture capital capital of VC. They burned through all the money because their sales process is wrong. They're trying to throw an insulation guy and an HVAC guy had a problem. Like, well, it could be this, it could be that, whatever, and everybody buys stuff. And the process was incredibly screwed up. Their reviews were horrific. It was like one and a half star, two star average. It was awful. And they died because building science is a great way to go out of business. It has to be applied really, really carefully with a really solid process for it not to kill you. And so we're trying to figure out how do we do that. But in the meantime, this was my companion piece to Justin Gray talking about how hard it was to electrify his house. Because at that point we'd pulled a bunch of gas meters. I think it was seven at this point. And this was a guide on how to do that. And I talked about all the challenges. This was zoomed in and zoomed out. So this is a good article to go read even today. And that article got me on the energy gang, frankly, before I was probably ready for it. Man was I scared. And Jigger was not the gentlest, but hey, we're friends. But through all of this, what we figured out is, as much as we wanted to find a path through homeowners or a path through energy auditors or through programs or something else, it's all about the HVAC contractors. This always has been and still is the HVAC industry's opportunity to lose electrification and building science and shell work and stuff like that. So here's why. 85% of HVAC replacements are emergencies. And also 85% are also single stage. I suspect that those are related because when it's an emergency, you buy from the first person who shows up with a halfway decent price with the first piece of equipment that he offers you. And since everybody's in a hurry, he's gonna sell you what he's used to selling, which is gonna be a furnace and an air conditioner probably of the wrong size. And every six seconds, a new system in the United States in a home starts up. And that opportunity is lost until 2035 or 2040. That's a big deal. So when your furnace or your air conditioner goes out, do you call the plumber? Do you call the insulation contractor? Do you call the efficiency program? No, you call an HVAC guy. So they are the only vertical that can scale fast. And the problem is like I showed earlier, like with banning gas furnaces, banning air conditioners. So like we have to be really careful how we work with the HVAC industry or it won't work, but they are the only way. And getting into HVAC is seriously intense. So insulation work, I figured out in a couple of years, I've got a pretty good idea of how to do all that stuff. It's not that hard. HVAC every day, I see another rabbit hole where I'm like, oh geez, I don't understand anything about that. It is so complex. I mean, if you think about it at a minimum, it's refrigeration, it's electrical and it's plumbing. Those are at a minimum, what you're working with. And you need to understand airflow, like there's all these things. So when I see solar companies saying you're going to get into HVAC, I'm like, no, you're not. You're not successfully. You're going to have huge callbacks and the profitability is going to suck. To me, anything that grows, that is going to scale, is going to come out of HVAC. And there's definitely some people that are open to it. We thought, oh boy, it's just all going to be Neanderthals or something like that. So that was me and my own prejudice of white collar versus blue, which is stupid because holy cow, there's a lot of awesome people in the HVAC industry. So this can be done, but it needs to be that invasive species. Continuing on, still playing around with the air quality monitors. And I gave this presentation to a bunch of home performance people in Burlington, Vermont, back in the 18, I was actually read as the IPCC thing was dropping. I was so guilty for flying. But we learned a lot from these. So we developed what we call bad ass HVAC out of it, which is one pretty simple system that does a really good job in air quality. We also call it nearly perfect HVAC. We learned that if you run the blower door throughout a spray foam job, you can keep the VOCs lower than what it normally is in the house. So there was a lot of stuff that we learned from doing that. We helped a mold sensitive client who was one of the people that sold their house and they lost their butts on it. So there was a lot of stuff that we learned through those and got to apply. And that all again affects electrification because you can just electrify, but you want the house to be healthier. And with a few tweaks, you can make it much better. Also in 2018, we were beginning to develop out HVAC 2.0. So we got a group of people together and we hung out every Monday night and figured out what this path might look like. And at that point, we called it home performance 2.0 because we were annoyed at the home performance industry. So we called it 2.0. But that was when we also developed the prime directive of it, which is to deliver excellent experiences for both contractors and homeowners. You have to do both and you have to do it darn near equally. I see a lot of these things where they lean like I use Airbnb. Sometimes we stay with it, but we're hosts. And it leans a little against the hosts and more towards the guests. And sometimes as a host, you feel like a second-class citizen and it's not perfectly balanced. Angie's list used to be paid for by homeowners. Now it's mostly paid for by contractors and it's kind of a mess. Home advisors entirely paid for by contractors and wow, what a piece of crap that is. You can get really bad leads that you have to call back instantly or you don't get the job. They are generally laughed at in the HVAC industry because the leads just stink from there. So we need to deliver excellent experiences to both sides of the kitchen table. So when it comes to electrification, it involves HVACs and sometimes insulation. So the contractors need to have a good time and the homeowners need to have a good time. Nobody else matters. And we learned this lesson from Tesla. So this is an old number from 2015, but I haven't seen newer ones. I probably could find them, but I hadn't really dug them up. But at the time, Jaguar was spending upwards of $3,000 a car and advertising to sell a car. Tesla spent six bucks, which was the cost of the flashy parties that they throw with new products amortized across the cars. That is remarkable. And they do this because they create really killer products to get people to talk about them. And I have a personal experience on this. So this is the Aldi. It's a discount grocery store that we love. And this is back at home in Ohio. And when the Model 3 had come out, I put a deposit down, which was kind of stupid because just not making enough money to justify buying a car that expensive, which is the major problem with electrification in general. It's more expensive. But pulled up next to this guy, I put a deposit down and said, hey, nice car, I've got a deposit on a three. And he looks at me and said, have you driven one? And I said, no, he's like, get in. Like he wasn't quite angry about it, but man, I would have been shattering social contracts and not do it. So at the time, my daughter's like three or four. She should have had a car seat, but my wife and daughter hop in the back seat and we drive the thing around the parking lot. And I was just stunned that some random guy who I've never seen before, I can't remember his name anymore. I know where he lives. He lives close to where I grew up and the town that's adjacent to here. But he liked that product and the mission of the product so well that he was out there handing his $100,000 car to a perfect stranger to drive. That's insane. You imagine saying, hey dude, nice Ferrari. Oh really, you think so? Come drive it. That's not how it works. So Tesla did an amazing job of having a mission that turns people into evangelists and this is what we need. But we also have to be careful how we do it, which I talk about a lot in the electrify everything course. We can't speak early adopter. We need to speak early majority. So this is way better. It needs to be whole products where things are complete and they're excellent. Tesla's done a great job on that. Who has the best charging network at Tesla? Who has a good charging network? Nobody else. Electrify America, my business partner had a bolt and he called it in rage America. It was incredibly annoying. Things were broken. You couldn't tell. There weren't enough stalls. I hope it gets there but Tesla's had the charging problem solved since like 15 or 16, maybe 17. It's been years. It's been solved, taken care of. You can get into Tesla and drive across the country. No problem. And so whole solutions where it's a complete replacement for something else is really critical, which is something that we learned here. So whole solutions, crossing the chasm and providing really good experiences for everyone. Everybody will sell whatever it is automatically because they're excited about it, which brought us back to building science. So how can we inject building science into HVAC without destroying businesses and in fact, making them better? And right at that same time, my friend, Neil Comperato said, why are you calling a home performance 2.0? You should call it HVAC 2.0 because it's mostly about HVAC. He's like, oh, yeah, it's a really good idea. And the HVAC forums lost their minds and that's when the brand really kind of stuck, which was cool. So thanks, Neil. Neil was also, I call him the second unicorn. So he used the system. He was the first 2.0 guy and used the system to sell some really interesting projects, which I was like, oh, okay, so it can be done. Because first it was my partner, Ted, who figured out the basics of the process and was using it to sell. I helped refine it and then we taught it to Neil and it was working for him. So we're like, okay, we have something that actually works. Now also as all of this is going on, you will see me as Nate The House Whisperer, Energy Smart Ohio on Twitter. My main goal there is to reduce the odds of policy screwing us because all policy, if it involves the kitchen table, gets in the way. And I'll come back to that a little bit. So don't mess with the kitchen table transaction. That is my main reason for being on Twitter. It's also nice as a sounding board, holy cow. You can see if an idea is sticky or not, minutes. Also as 2020 was coming on, I had been developing what we now call badass HVAC and it's a really simple system and this hit just before the pandemic hit. So I think it was like February 20th, I published this video of last year. And it deals with what we call the six functions of HVAC, super important, also heavily covered in the electrify, everything course, but load matching is putting out exactly how much heating or cooling the house needs, which varies moment to moment, day to day, every day, every season. Filtration is really important for knocking garbage out of the air. You'll dust less. This is huge for COVID and just sickness in general, because most germs travel in spit particles that are of a size that a good filter will actually catch. So good filtration is important. Dehumidification, if you're anywhere in a humid climate, this is critical for home health. Like if you have bugs, you have a moisture problem. So if you can help keep the house dry, that's good. Maybe a water problem as opposed to humidity. But dehumidification is key. Bringing in fresh air from outside, softens not really that fresh. So you run it through the filter and heat it or cool it. But that is important to dilute bad stuff inside the house. Mixing, you just want to stir the house like a vinaigrette all the time. So it'll keep CO2 levels, carbon dioxide, which is, you think substantially worse on higher levels of carbon dioxide. So you want to keep those levels reasonable. You can average them out through a house and then you can blunt temperature differences from one room to another by mixing. So a large return, just big ductwork makes it so it uses almost no energy to do that. So that's mixing. And then humidification, depending on your climate, may be a good idea to add some moisture to the house when it's cold out. So, but this has been really beginning to stick and it's been fun to watch. But this is one system. It just uses one modulating heat pump and they're the only other piece of equipment. It's like a humidifier, but this is the only main piece of equipment. So this is a scalable thing. Most contractors can sell and install this successfully. So also exciting last year in June, we launched the Alpha software and the wicked problem is largely solved. So when it comes to residential electrification, we view ourselves as being at Kitty Hawk. So we can fly. We can't fly very fast. We can't fly very far, but we can fly. And nobody else has figured this out yet. So the wicked problem is largely solved at this point, mainly the scale issue. So as we're chewing through all of this, an idea comes to me because we generally despise policy because it makes our lives harder. So stop putting programs out there. You're hurting sales. And it's a show. Jed Trot talked about it and he said, basically if something is difficult to explain and you can't sell something without explaining it, it's getting in the way. That is what pretty much all programs do. And so an idea came to me. Huge piece of electrification is heat pumps, but an air conditioner is a heat pump. It's just missing a few parts so it can only cool. It can't heat and cool. So it's a one-way heat pump and we want two-way heat pumps. So what if we paid residential HVAC manufacturers $400 an AC if they make everything heat pumps? And put this out there. Nice thread back in January. And Steve Pantano of CLASS and Alexander Gardmery of Harvard, now of Brown reached out and said, hey, can we make this a thing? And what that was doing, this actually adheres to the Prime Directive. And so the Prime Directive is delivering excellent experiences for both contractors and homeowners and that is done through what we call the church of the kitchen table. So we want to worship the transaction at the kitchen table. Nothing else matters. I don't care if you're a program, if you're a utility, if you're the government, you don't matter. The only thing that matters in electrification are contractors and homeowners, period, end of story. That's the church of the kitchen table. So this was a policy proposal that actually holds to that because it aims at distributors or manufacturers. So homeowners never even know about it. In fact, here's what it is. So upstream programs aim at manufacturers, midstream aim at distribution and downstream aims at the kitchen table transaction. So consumers. And please, for the love of Pete, don't mess with the kitchen table. And the problem is 100% of efficiency programs out there mess with the kitchen table transaction. Guess why we hate programs? So please come out with something different. Go midstream or upstream. Do not go downstream. Here it is, Jed. I knew it was in here somewhere. If it's hard to explain and hard to include without explaining, it's probably not helping. Way to say it, Jed. Like that is dead nuts and so concise. Don't make our lives harder in the field selling stuff. And so coming up with this idea, Steven Lacey knew that we were working on it and so I was on the energy gang again. We talked about putting heat pumps out. So if this is something you care about, the energy gang is a really good podcast in general. And that episode will probably be very interesting to you. Hopefully you've heard it. I think most people that are watching this have. And then back in May, we dropped this paper, Hybrid Heat Homes. So this is ironic because I'm very pro electrification but realistically in the short term, we're going to need to run a lot of hybrids which is a heat pump on top of a furnace instead of an air conditioner on top of a furnace. Also called dual fuel. This is midstream or upstream. So this is out there and you may want to talk to, well, I'd recommend talking to whoever your congressperson is about that. It's in a couple of bills. I'm modestly hopeful it'll actually hit the reconciliation bill but we'll see. But again, in policy, my main assumptions are, A, it won't happen and B, it will hurt. So at least I tried to put something out there. That would be helpful. Now back to the wicked problem. We want to talk about how we dealt with this. So we've basically peeled the onion on this. The biggest piece by far is a diagnostic slash sales process. You have to do both. So a house comes in, is it an easy one? You just replace the equipment. Is it moderately hard? You are careful about sizing and specifying and installing the equipment. Is it really hard? You need to do some planning and a shell upgrade. That's the basics of the 2.0 process. So every problem is unique. So you need to have a process that helps sort the projects to what they need to be. So it's so funny. We've had all the technical stuff. So multi-causal, multi-scaler and interconnected. This is building science. You change anything in a house. You change a whole bunch of other things simultaneously. Building science recognizes this and we can deal with it. And good HVAC can really help blunts a lot of problems with that. There's no clear problem definition. I'm gonna narrow this to just looking at the kitchen table transaction because this is tough to define. I mean, we are trying to create very comfortable, very healthy, renewably powered homes. That's what we're trying to do. But every person cares about something different. So what's the problem definition? Ask the clients to define it. Ask them a bunch of questions, which is again a sales process piece, which is what we do in 2.0. That's at its heart, it's a sales process. Multiple stakeholders with conflicting agendas. We're gonna narrow that to homeowners and contractors. Again, if you're a utility, you don't matter. If you're the government, you don't matter. If you're a program, you don't matter. Only things that matter are contractors and homeowners. If you keep that in mind, we can actually succeed. If you tried to put your own agenda on top of this, we're gonna fail. Narrow path, remember, you're gonna fall off. Straddling organizational disciplinary boundaries. This is really, really big, white collar versus blue. And so I'm just about to start a podcast with Abhi Kuntamini about spanning boundaries of that. Every solution ramifies throughout the system, which means there's all kinds of unintended consequences. Again, this is a diagnostic sales process where you help people understand what those are and you work to predict what they are. Solutions are not right or wrong, but are better or worse. We don't guarantee anything in 2.0. We talk about odds. So look, we can do this. The odds are it's not gonna fix anything and it might make things worse, but I'll take your money. Or here's the thing that's likely to work with an educated guest. Or your house is really complicated so we need to do more planning to figure out what's likely to work. So trying to define what those are. Can take a long time to evaluate solutions? Yep, been nine years of fighting through. Well, we could try this, that didn't work. We could try this, that didn't work. How about that? That didn't work. How about this? Oh, that actually works. So feedback loops take a long time to figure this out. We are well ahead of everyone else. Not saying that a cocky way, we just aren't. Cause we've been chewing this problem for longer than most and we've done our very best to slaughter every sacred cow we can find. Problems are never completely solved. Absolutely, feedback loops, we actually call this continuous optimization. So you wanna watch projects and have systems that are adjustable enough that you can tweak them to hopefully make things better. So this is how we have dealt with a wicked problem. And again, we have to narrow it to kitchen table and we can think zooming in, zooming out. That was the father of Electrify Everything presentation how to sell heat pumps to contractors and homeowners. I was talking about multiple levels. So ground level, 30,000 feet and from the moon. There's all kinds of different things that need to happen but this is how 2.0 solves the boots on the ground problem. Please don't throw wrenches in this and if you do anything that messes with the kitchen table you're putting a wrench in. So if you get an earful from me at some point I'm warning you now, it's coming. Don't do that. Here's the basics. I wanna give you the short version of 2.0 so you understand what it is. There's two questions that it asks. Basically, are there comfort problems to solve? Does the house not heat well or some rooms not heat well? Does something not cool well? Are there moisture problems? Are there health problems? Those are the four questions. If no, you do a free quote and you replace like for like. There's no diagnostics, not a whole lot of discussion. Here's your good, better, best, which one do you want? And that's gonna be plenty. This can still sell heat pumps, particularly if 3-H works. If there are problems to solve, you do what's called a comfort consult. It's a blow-out or test. It's an interview to find out what your problems are. It's understanding what the house needs and it's discussing budget. So you're trying to figure out what are your goals? What does the house need and what's the budget? And can we get those three to cross? And what that answers is the second question which is, is HVAC likely to solve the problem? If the answer is yes, which it is on quite a few homes, if you right-size HVAC and you put variable speed stuff in, it fixes all kinds of stuff. Houses just get better. We've watched this time and again. But some houses are really screwed up and you can't just guess. So I mean, if you go to the physical and the doc is like, boy, we need more testing, that's right here. Comprehensive planning process. These are the advanced projects, the deeper case studies that I showed earlier. So we have built it so it does this. Now this system only works because of this. Any contract, any HVAC contractor using 2.0 can confidently walk into any home and know that they can solve the problem. That's remarkable. And that is only because this advanced path is here. But they're barely gonna use this path particularly until we solve the resale problem. So this is only gonna happen here and there. But because it exists, this system holds together. And this is what we figured out first and then we had to figure out the rest. So basically view this like the intensive care unit. This is like the hospital or the ER and this is outpatient, come in, come out. So what has ended up happening is people are really confused about what the heck is HVAC 2.0. And it's kind of like this elephant illustration. So if everybody's blinded and holding onto something or touching different parts of the elephant, it's a fan, it's a wall, it's a rope, it's a tree, it's a snake, it's a spear. There's all these different things that it could be but it's an elephant at the end of the day. So when you're looking at HVAC 2.0, first and foremost, it's really a sales process and it's wild to call it that because there's so much technical chops underneath it but that's what it is. It's a guild. We need a bunch of people working together to help each other. It's a scalable model for electrification. Absolutely. But electrification is a natural result, not an explicit goal of 2.0, which also helps move contractors along and homeowners along. If you sell it on solving problems and improving comforts, heat pumps are a much easier sell than you need to do this because I told you so or because climate. Because that doesn't move a lot of people. It's a community of practice. So it's a whole bunch of people working together and trying to solve problems. It's a way of life. This is, it's based on Sandler and Sandler changes how you do things. And to hold it all together, it's a CRM software, customer relationship management. We have a very specific process. I showed you the very simple version but the longer version, the whole point of the software isn't really to be software. It's to keep you on the right step without screwing stuff up because if you stay on the right path and you make the stops in order, you'll sell stuff, you'll fix things. And so that provides a good experience for the contractors and the process is meant to naturally be a good experience for homeowners. So really important. But all of this, the path that we have found for 2.0, it's like this, it's narrow. Not saying there aren't other paths but we've spent a decade more or less looking for this path and this is the only one we've found. So we're going to promote the hell out of it because it's the only thing that we know of that's actually likely to get us there. It's also, it's decentralized. Okay, so we just actually like two weeks ago launched beta software. So now it has a different structure underneath it so that we can click things in, it's containerized. And what I'm working on right now is automating contractor onboarding because it takes four to eight months for people to make the mindset shift to 2.0. It's really not an easy shift to make. It's akin to changing religions or political parties. It's hard. But once people do it, they love it. And their business results are really good. And what we're hoping to do is in 2022, we think the only way for this to go fast enough is to create a business model that is so good that it's an invasive species inside the HVAC industry. This is an industry that doesn't change quickly. I've long joked that if you pulled an HVAC tech from 1955 to today, 2021, he would need about a week to figure out the boards and the electronics that are involved. But 85% of the equipment's single stage, it's basically the same as it was in 1955. It's not fundamentally different. And that's kind of sad. So we need a different way to do it. So can we be beneficial Kudzu? That's what we're hoping for. And I wanna show one example. This is, we're still early, but at least we have a few people that have been using the system consistently. And this is HVAC 2.0 contractor and friend of mine, Reedy Ward. So these are the results he's seen. His free quotes have gone up a little bit. And his average job is about $10,000 through free quotes. That's up a little bit as well. But look at the comfort console. 82% closing ratio, $16,000 average job. 60% more. So in 2020, because the pandemic, leads were down about a third for him, but his revenue didn't drop because he was selling larger jobs at higher percentages. This is what a killer app looks like in the business world. It doesn't need to be 10x better. It needs to be like 2x. And here's a key thing too. Revenue per leads are really critical metric in the HVAC world. So he went from five grand on the free quotes to $13,000 per lead revenue. So now you have more room for marketing if you want to grow. And if you don't want to grow, you get to make more money. So this is beneficial Kudzu. And through all that, we've been chewing through this whole wicked problem. Now our goal is we want to hit 200 contractors in the network currently we're around 30 by the end of 2022. And that requires that onboarding. It's gonna be really hard. And this is where I'm gonna have an ask as well. And we want to hit 2000 contractors by mid 2024. And if some of these are big contractors, we can really move things. So we have one contractor network that's very large. And it's just beginning to spread like Kudzu within the company. And I think it's going to really revolutionize their numbers, which is going to mess with everyone. So there you are. This is the whole story of the journey. So insulation, company failure, an efficiency program proposal, going out there and creating a sales process and doing the work and selling them. Figuring out how to onboard people with the home comfort book so they understand building science, talking about creating resale value. Again, we will not scale without this period. I don't see another path. Everything else is too expensive. Putting building science in the HVAC through 2.0, selectify everything. Working on the invasive business model, heat pump proposal 3H. And now hopefully scaling heat pump and shell retrofits. But I do have to say this is, I'm tired of this for a long time. So looking forward to revenue, revenue enough to actually pay ourselves. That's going to be really nice. And before you say, hey, why haven't you gone for grants and stuff? Everything has come with strings that we've looked at that's prevent us from, I mean, we've had to just ping pong around the whole time trying to figure out what is the path to this because it's so freaking narrow. And as soon as you start putting milestones and timeframes on, things are really hard. So only now are we getting to where I'm ready for milestones and timeframes because we think we have, I mean, basically until the Wright brothers flew, could you say, hey, next week, I really want to have that thing in the air? No, it'll fly when you figure it out. So what we're going to need next is some help. We need to identify electrification friendly contractors. Really simple. You call some supply houses and you ask them who buys the top end model of whatever manufacturer you want to talk to. So carrier, Mitsubishi, Diakin, York, whatever. But if you call them and you help us by using a form so that we can see where these people are and what happened in the conversations, you're going to help us understand where people are open to it. And then we'll make that to where everyone can see it and use it so that if multiple homeowners call the same contractor asking for the same thing, they're going to be like, oh, what is this thing? And you can point them towards 2.0, not unlike that fellow with a Tesla, pointed me heavily towards having a Tesla. So very important piece. And that is my journey to hopefully solving the wicked problem of electrification. So odds are non-zero. Still not amazing yet, but non-zero. So that's where we are. So I hope this was helpful and didn't seem self-congratulatory or anything like that. It's not what I was going for. Just wanted to tell the story of how it's been. It's been a long path. And I hope that we're almost there. And really important thing, if this is something you care about, time is short. So it's time to make a plan and you can take the electrify everything course and that's going to help you get your head around the various pieces. But I'm sorry, if you don't have a plan that you plan to execute within the next five years of decarbonizing your life and you care about climate change, you need to shut up. And that needs to become a mantra and that's going to help grow contractors out there that want to do this. And I know 2.0 works and I'm sure there will be other paths that work as well. But make a plan. It's really important. So with that, I'll end. I'm Nate Adams. Have a good day and good luck helping in the decarbonization. I'd call it a fight, but it's a movement. So let's go. Bye-bye.