 humi na jugafutu na kanko na koukote na hwaja kutu mainkuwa kutu wa, napikantua hwofu na wajihaku namawega maikuniku Hiama. Namawega hwajihaku namawega maikuniku kuja, kaya hwaga maikuniku maikuniku maikuniku, biha wajibola na kubita hwakawe ni mwuzi katawe za kak Praissu na, h�u na na mwa, m'akumusuru va kuna hwakawe na kurubu. Knuka mumua kutuniku maikuniku kutu maikuniku tsotu na ratua. But we also know people who are there who are not. So journalism you don't define yourself. The media council act of 2013 defines who is a journalist and that's by law. So you must meet those requirements. So whether you can produce content or not does not make you a journalist. If you already have the numbers commanding the attention of almost competitive stations as well. Without accreditation from the MCK you are not. That does not make you a journalist. Journalist is a profession. A profession one is defined one by a code of ethics for practice. Maybe they fell under those code of ethics. Let me tell you who makes a profession. And it has been a global debate. For many years in the UK when you are applying for a passport as a journalist you are never allowed as a profession. But journalism has grown. In the US it took a lot of time to recognize journalist as a profession. But journalism is a profession one with a code of ethics for the practice. It is given in the second schedule the media council act it has 25 articles. Journalism has theories of training. There are theories and some of you have gone to journalism you know. Then journalism has a systematic way of examining and joining. There is an exam you do before you become a journalist. So you don't just wake up in your bed and say because I have good voice I am a journalist. You can be a content creator you can be a storyteller that does not make you a journalist. And journalists deal with the news. Journalists do not deal with information or this thing now you are calling storytelling. Those are not journalism. Journalism is where you deal with the news. And those are some of the dynamics that people are feeling. You might say online we have too many people who go online who are competing journalism. But statistics and you can check communication authority of Kenya relations affects every type. People who go online largely are ages of 15 to 35. I mean who you call youth. You start noticing a number of them go online to look for information not for news. Now information can be a student who is in the university looking for material for their thesis. So there's a huge again difference between information and news. And that's why many times when we discuss people talk about mobile journalist, And recently you said even very soon journalist phones will be now The official gadgets for looking for information. But there's nothing called mobile journalism or citizen journalism. Journalism is just journalism. We are just looking for beauty names because why don't you call it your colleague guy in Kamukunji? Citizen engineer. I mean because I mean so we are introducing so many things that that just ma but journalism just journalism. But things like phones are tools for people to work. So we have already advised even the police that a phone is an official tool for journalists to do their work. Because you can record, you can write notes, you can do. So increasingly people must change and that's why we are telling the issue of perception. We are talking about you the perception of KBC for example. KBC is a public broadcaster. But for many years people think KBC is a state broadcaster. But that's not the case. And this has continued because once you call KBC a state broadcaster Then even advertisers, other people start looking at it as a state government controlled. So they will never bring adversity. Yet you know I know KBC is a public broadcaster. So we must also increasingly deal with the issue of perception. How do people look at media? Like I told you media is an industry that generates income, employs people. Media is now has employed people who have skills, graduates and the rest. Media is no longer, you go to a press conference, if you have ever gone to one You must give up and say, what your media? What your media? What is media? Media is just media. So we must consistently help people understand that media is a profession, is an industry that has employed people. And that generates, look at how much money some of these companies, media companies, nation is listed on the Nairobi Stock Exchange. Standard industry say, raw media is private but look at the much money they pay in terms of taxes to government. So people must respect media as an industry. Media is not just journalists who write stories. In this for you to produce this program. You are a journalist but you have IT guys, you have technologies, you have produce. You know, it's a whole set of people who are involved in this thing. So media is not journalism alone. And that's why we have journalists, we have media practitioners, we have media workers, because for you to go and work, they must be a driver to take you to that work, you know. So these all these categories, they are program controllers, they are producers. People who never even did journalism but they are involved. So people must expand the understanding of what media is, both as an industry that creates employment, but more importantly at the fourth estate. There is a reason why media was called a fourth estate. As a big player in national development, in watchdogging and setting the agenda around national conversation of public interest issues. So if people start respecting that and stop looking at journalists, these people who come here, we give them 200 and they go and write stories, then the conversation will start changing. Now since you mentioned that even for us here, what do you think are some of the solutions from what you see even from the media council of Kenya that can help re-strategize and maybe help in revamping the operations even in terms of programming and quality control as well? One of the bigger things and which we have said is even new work here must start appreciating the fact that KBC is a public broadcast and not a state broadcast. Because that thinking, that change in culture and understanding would help you start looking at things in a bigger way that you don't serve only the state. Much as you are supported by the state, but you don't only serve, but you serve state and others. It's a public broadcast. That one must be calculated in people who work here. Both, I mean throughout the staff, that people must appreciate that yes, you are supported by government fully, but you are serve the public. That is one of the things. Supply and demand. A number of times we are looking at the supply of news. Do we have equipment? Do we have people? Do we have equipment? Do we have computers? We are spending very little time on programming. Who is demanding for our news? Who wants our news? But there is also the cost for that. But you see, a cost must come obviously. But if you have the demand for your service, you cannot complain about cost. If you have opened a kiosk and people demand your service, why would you complain about capital to buy? So we must look at also, who is demanding for our content? Because we are talking about content being there. The main business for any media outlet is the content yourself. Now you must look at, and you mentioned audience segmentation. Who wants your content and at what time? That we must invest in research and establish do we have content that speaks to the people we are targeting? That's very important. Because a number of times I've seen, not just KBC, but we have lost in terms of content. Are we giving content that our consumers are interested in or not? So that's one area we must invest in. You remember, and I did a training for KBC staff at some stage with the BBC Action on audience-led programming. Are we doing programming aware of the audience needs? So the issue of feedback and integration of audiences in our programming, in our content production becomes very critical. So research, reorienting of how do we involve audiences in our program? Do we program with audiences in our mind? So that we give people the audience they need? Have we invested in equality? You talked about quality control. Have we invested in employing the people with the right attitude and qualification? And are we going to get people with quality qualification if we are not paying them well? So the issue of welfare, the issue of salaries, the issue of motivating the staff so that we attract the best, becomes the best. One of the issues that we are investing in staff who can then give us that quality content that people want. But we can't get quality content by staff who are demotivated, by staff who are not paid well. So we must invest. Then obviously once we look at that demand side, we now start talking about supply side. Where is the money to get the quality staff? Where is the money to get quality content? Then obviously KBC is funded by state. It might not be enough, obviously. But KBC has also resources which it can use. But like we mentioned, the resources are never enough. The issue of going up aggressive fundraising and partnerships. You can have a program on youth which you partner with an institution that is interested in youth affairs. You can have a program on sports where you have people who are interested in sports. So the issue of aggressively looking for partners, people who are interested, there's now a whole branch of journalism called philanthropy journalism. And people are now funding things like climate change, mental health and the rest. So we must also have people who can look out for these resources because resources will not come to look for you here. We must have a team that is dedicated resource mobilization and the rest. And at the same time, within the bigger review of the laws, like now you have seen the Cabinet Secretary had mentioned many times, the issue of KBC, revitalization of KBC is critical to government and I'm sure they are working on it. But part of it also is to look for partners who can help KBC in some form of what they are doing. So there's a lot of opportunity. Aware that there are also challenges. The industry generally, globally is going through challenges just like other industries are going through. But that must allow, challenges must allow for creativity and innovation so that we are not going to close down KBC because the global challenges are there. We must look for ways of sustaining through partnerships, through revamping our programs. I mean KBC has all nearly 10 or so vernacular radio stations, which other media houses are using, how do you utilize that? There's a whole bunch of now local contents. People are interested in local content. So they must also be aware of and remember production of local content is very expensive. So partnerships with people who can help us produce local content because local content much as is very expensive but it has huge burden more than showing as Mexican operas and old films bold and beautiful, which is when even the actors died but we are still showing as much as it is. But although the public requested for it, also this legends edition, they said we want to see the original the public who are demanding for it, do they pay? Also they should demand and pay. Because content must attract either an advertiser or a person who is paying for it. So what I'm saying is that we must gradually because from other places we have seen local content has a huge following. So we must, though it's also very expensive but we can partner with others to produce that local content. We must invest in journalists, we must invest in both the supply and demand side of media. It's not a small solution but people think about it. I know next week on 8th there's a meeting of all media owners, editors, media council, advertisers, PRSK think about how we can bump the industry. So last week Tanzania established a whole task force to look at what is happening in the media industry. So these things are happening. People are not sleeping obviously. I've told you the government is working on reviving KBC so people know the importance of the media but it also calls upon you journalists who get the opportunity to work in the media to also remember you are doing work of public nature. Many of you also have started using media to use your private interests. So that's also... No, you will call a governor to look for a job for your cousin, not to look... you will call Lusaka to look for a job for your cousin instead of calling Lusaka about the pollution in Bungama. So many of us, well it's not wrong if he can help you but many of us are using also these media spaces for public gain, for private gain more than public interest. That's why our content many times does not speak to public interest and once we meet that it's also such a bring challenge of losing viewers and audiences. So we must also understand that our content then speak to public interest. That's it interests the public. Amaniako tu. That reminds me there's a theory in journalism school called the hypodamic needle theory that explains media as an injection that injects ideas, stimulates conversation, creates a narrative that people should follow. Now in regards to this year in terms of meeting serious programming for 2023, do you think from where you sit we are going to meet the standards for this year? The opportunity is there. If you miss it, we will blame you but the opportunity of getting quality content that can speak to audience is there because like I mentioned journalism is a creative art. Journalism is not just to come here and host Victor for 10 minutes and then you walk away you do all other erandas during the whole day. You have no time for journalism itself. Ukshama liza programia kwa sayi ume yanda ten nambaka kyeshondu onekana then you call yourself a journalist. You must spend time to create you must have to be creative to look for creative content that requires your attention. Averagely generally spend an hour in their work. Once they come here read the news bulletin or bring the news they disappear to other they become brokers in other things but they don't spend time for their work. So if people can sit down and think KBC has a whole department of research it has other people to support it why can't you guys sit down among other things and look for that because the opportunities are there. I mean we are already seeing other media houses that are doing what coming back that started making profit others within those challenges I believe the opportunities just like any other media house that the opportunities are there is just you colleagues to have and spend time become sincere and loyal employers who can spend time to support your management in terms of coming up with creative ideas creative programs because remember most of this program is you it's not the editor in chief who comes here to tell you what you do he has already employed and given space it's you to think and help your editor in chief achieve what they are looking for go and give them story ideas story program ideas I am sure they will support you but if you guys are just coming and reporting in the morning and waiting to be told by the editor in chief for them they want to do many of you still company time you come here and the rest of the day you spend on Google doing your private work and you are stealing from then we will not reach there but if we spend time and also brand look at yourself in terms of career growth is what you are doing will it enable you grow in journalism or you are just here to pass time and get your salary umefika muishu you know many of us have no ambition umefika kbc because I got a job umefika muishu but there are people who are ambitious who are here who are thinking they never sleep about how they will grow in their career and that's the thing we are saying that they also must be commitment from we journalists in terms of you already have an opportunity to kbc how many people do you go to class who never go to jobs here quite a number have you ever looked at it that this is an opportunity I got how do I utilize it but many of us are stuck with the book of lamentation how about crying how journalism is bad come on journalism is bad when you don't have money mama kazingine you know so we must spend our time and spare time for our profession for it to grow it's not going to be solved by other professionals who will come and see see there's a media industry now we spoke of audiences and we spoke of audience segmentation of course we as a public broadcaster we have an audience if we want to retain our audience this year and say ours is right to fulfill this is what we are going for what do you think are some of the things we need to do so that we capture our audience forever and never make them go away I've just mentioned the issue of investing in research because you cannot sit in kbc and know your audience needs you know that journalism of giving people what they want and what they need are too different because some of us are stuck in giving journalists what they want in giving the audience what they want yet we need to give our audiences what they need today people are surviving the movement now is there's a global challenge poverty levels and the rest it's a global thing people are looking for programs that can for example we are talking about solution based journalism solution based journalism are we just criticizing or are we criticizing then offering an alternative we are saying we as a country or these are professions we have not done here but this is how other countries have done are moving or county A maybe bongoma has not done well in health but we have seen Garisa is doing well what bongoma borrow from you are giving people some alternatives because generally people have lost hope generally it's not just in Kenya alone because of the global challenges so people want right now the story is no longer about whether COVID is near or not the issue is if you get COVID how do you survive because it's factual COVID is there it was there when people are talking about other challenges it's a fact that this week is school fees so saying how parents will complain but what they do so people are looking for alternatives content that also inspires hope content that gives people something to live for and now obviously because if you look at the studies a lot of our stories on crime deaths killings mismanagement of government funds but there are also a few things that are working so how do you also inspire there are people who just want also to hear how brand is surviving in respect of these challenges how is he surviving so there are people who just want to hear that a border border who is just doing well they form the circle and they are surviving they are doing well how does border border busia borrow that some welfare people are doing urban farming mutuana limamboga juna nina nina and are surviving so that our content is multi it's not just one and this means like you said we must segment our audience understand media even ownership programs who owns media in our country who has access if you brought a program for example in Luya and you brought a program on radio at 8 who listen it radio is largely a male on the document so when men go to and mostly Luya infact you are targeting the Luya community now and in Funula when they go fishing they go with the radios in the lake so if you do a program at 6 in the morning that studies women they will not get it because the radio has gone away with the man so we must already also starting about delivery content delivery you do a good program yes but maybe it's this program relevant to the people I am targeting at this time so we might have to go back sometimes to recorded programs and people like BBC Voice of America have a lot of this recorded program good program that targets school going children can only be watched when we came or after school so it can be recorded and delivered at that time so we also need to to understand those audience dynamics so that then we stop these things of mpenzi musikilizaji there is nothing called mpenzi musikilizaji mpenzi was musikilizaji wang that's not generalism musikilizaji musikilizaji mpenzi don't put emotions in generalism if you want to know mpenzi musikilizaji they say you personalize your view and they say you personalize your view and you say that they say you personalize your view and you say that I don't know what you are saying but that's why the thing is that we must gradually start also understanding the changing dynamics continuously invest in research to understand what our audience needs changing over time there is now a whole debate for example the climate change on the blue economy these were not programs that were there na kwa maisia ni siyehia na kwa owe jan. Grandi totsi pipes ni uait منi carimikIt ma唱a haka. contained na hikwikanug insights? iwi maisi, kumadansi nuse u marchiki na hikaяни igauni motofe kwa u baura mwe ni kapui qwe. But you can't do that in an emerging world. So that's what I'm talking about, creativity and versatility, that you need to pick what are the current things that people are talking about, what are the current needs of people, and you're certainly noticing that some of the time we started gaining audiences, we started gaining trust and relevance to our audiences. And that brings us to the issue of diversity, like diversifying now. I know at some point to reach you, we'll have to ask for diversity funds, where we'll be able to do our programming that you said is not just giving our audience what we want, but we're giving them an alternative as compared to what they're used to consuming. How can we ensure that comes in place? You know, you just follow the rules, you generalize again, because if you read the Kika Regulations of 2009, getting different people, including marginalized people, and it's good for even the media houses to bring the media houses, that while we are watching dogs and watching others, but the media houses must give you money to give it to a different fund. Government can support the industries, but other countries have done it in support of the media. Even in South Africa as well. Even the UK is among the top countries that has done that. Yes, they support. You know one of the things, Brian, do you go for the loan first, or do you do a business proposal of this thinking, but I lack funds? Right. Because I lack funds to be the first thing. Before you do anything, think about the story first. There are people who support those things. There are now so much funds on climate change, on the blue economy, including even government and other players. But we start with saying we don't have funds so we don't think. Think first, come up with a proposal. The media council has been giving out grants for Janans to do stories. Other players are in control of the Hansa Institute, NHIF. They are working on the giving card. I mean we have been giving out grants for climate. And even the people from KBC have won here, giving out funds. So Janans must also become, and that's one area we want to invest in, the issue of proposal writing. How do you put a picture story that can win your grant? Because that's an issue. Because we were in the newsroom without thinking about it. Right. Including voice, incorporating journalists to train them on specific items in terms of... Medium have digital platforms. To a different medium.