 Hello and welcome to Digital Freethout Radio Hour on WOZO Radio 103.9 LP FM live right here in Knoxville, Tennessee Today is Sunday May 3rd 2020. I'm Larry Rhodes or doubter five and as usual We have our co-host Wombat on the phone with us. Hello Wombat I Surrender all I surrender I'm beginning to see a trend my precious save your eye Very well done. I'm gonna have to hop in two minutes after we start. Oh, really Our guests today are Joy Woods J. W. Kennedy Chad the impaler and booed row Welcome Chad. He's not here yet. And dread pirate. He's dread pirate. Hicks is here, but Anyway, I didn't leave anybody out Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a talk radio show about atheism free thought rational thought humanism and the sciences And conversely we also talked about religion religious faiths. God's holy books and superstition And if you get the feeling that you're the only non-believer in Knoxville or East Tennessee for that matter You're just not there are several atheists rethinking irrationless groups that get together right here in Knoxville And we'll be telling you how you can connect with them right after the mid-show break Although also did you know that there was a streaming atheist television show broadcasting here from Knoxville? Oh my god I want that I love that show. I didn't even know you know about that show The whole reason why I became a scientist was because of like basically the show because you would have Bill And I come up and he'd be like hey man science is awesome And I'd be like science is awesome, and I'm like maybe I should be a scientist when I grow up He's like you could totally do it, and I think it's really good for kids like watch really educational show So I'm going up on TV. So I'm sure they touch on science, but it's not the bill my show It's an atheist show and it's a calling show and they've been doing it for 10 years But you can find it on YouTube now They're streaming live every week and I'll talk to you more about that the details after the mid-show break Right now. We're just about ready to get into our topic first if you have any comments that you'd like to Throw into the show or bring up questions You can always go to the digital free thought radio or Facebook page and post those comments there Use the messaging function. So now some in the YouTube comments as well, too. Really? Yeah, and Jw we're ready for your topic. I think you were Ask gonna ask uh, why do we care? well, um, this is um Usually we'll we'll cover a topic that we usually get from Theists or or the religious stands Today I thought it would be interesting if we could answer the question that we get from both sides because a lot of atheists Ask this question to atheists agnostics and non-religious is that why do people like us who are? Atheist agnostics and non-religious have a YouTube channel and have podcasts and vote and All those things and then get get so involved with this and it's I think it would be an interesting topic to see Why we each individually are here and why we each individually are so passionate about being vocal and politically active about the topic and Yeah very cool. I Wrote an article on this very topic on my blog digital free thought Dot com slash blog. It's called what's so wrong with religion anyway, and it goes on and on It got probably a dozen different items in there that I fleshed out pretty well but Way the way I hear people ask me is why do you have to be out here talking to christian? Why do you have to why do you have to be annoying and ask an atheist table? Why do you have why do you care? What atheists believe? and To me it's it's the answer is short and simple religion causes great harm in the world And we have to address that harm and hopefully work to eliminate as much of it as we can And now we're going to details in the show, but that's basically where I think we're all coming from It was that Boudreau looks like he's got something on his mind Boudreau, what do you feel about this? Yeah, but uh, I guess what strikes me about that immediately is Religion wouldn't be nearly as bad if there was just one It'd be it'd be unified I mean that's what the pope was thinking the entire time like that's the whole point of the crusades That was the point like when you think about it. It all was with a greater good. Yeah Yeah, that's that's a philosophy with no One religion does sound kind of uh totalitarian to me even though there are three major religions that have uh, very totalitarian tendencies and are have had it like christianity has had a history of totalitarianism, but you've kind of seen it kind of relaxed over the past century in a sense at least um And in certain countries, but then we have um certain people like in america trying to bring bring back certain or Because I mean in america originally we were secular, but now we have people in america trying to Bring back or bring in um certain christian principles. So but anyway, uh to the to the main main topic I just said to to have one religion that even that It does sound kind of kind of concerning to me, but I mean maybe it's just because religion is concerning Interesting topic. I always thought that america was never absolutely secular But that we just didn't want to worship the same way how an already established church worship And I feel like whenever you have different people they're going to have different ways of wanting to worship Even if it's the same religion, there's just going to be schisms that are natural By virtue of the fact that people are different and that's what's so hard to keep it all in the same umbrella Yeah, well, I I use that term loosely in a sense because um, uh, god isn't mentioned in the constitution and there were a lot of um deists and agnostics that were involved in the writing of the constitution and the um The declaration of independence thomas pain thomas jefferson those kinds of people But anyway, I was just saying like one religion I mean, uh, I guess it could be a really good religion or a really bad religion who knows But I'm curious I said, um, mudro like why Why does why does one religion seem less threatening than multiple religions? Well, like I said Kind of ended it with it it would unify things and and make it harder to to disband. I think one of the Lucky things about being having so many religions is that you can just point to Multiple religions as an argument against any religion, right? But if there was one single religion, I feel like we wouldn't have wars over believing in different gods We wouldn't have you know, I I guess maybe it would be harder for atheists to argue With theists, but I think it would be a lot more peaceful Even if it was and we may have less war wars, but it doesn't mean that we'd have less atrocities Exactly True go ahead. The idea that That people have a connection to a higher power That creates division just in and in itself Because if you've got priests who are closer to god than the people then right away you've got conflicting views on Who's got the closer connection to god so even internally? I think there's a potential for a lot of conflict and back when there was only one religion like in England people came to america you talking about how america got started was because it they found it Overburdening and oppressive and and they they wanted to worship different ways So you would have a society where people if it was all one religion all over the world Then you would have those societies that would rebel they would try to At least gather among themselves and fight the established rule Oh, yeah, I would they go and that doesn't even consider space. Oh, I am inside I was thinking atheism they would ground if they if they don't like the religion If there's one religion only one religion you can't have any more if they have a problem with that religion There's only one place to go underground or Atheism man. I don't want a lot of angry atheists who are literally angry at the one true god I'd rather just have outcasts from everybody But but that doesn't even talk about science. I mean If the if one religion ruled the entire world science would have a really hard road to hoe Because every single establishment would be combined to back up any any resistance to a scientific advancement So Larry brings up an incredible point because when you have muslim scientists who and in islam is like, well, we don't Hard believe evolution like humans come from like evolved, you know Previous animals and then you have christian scientists who also discover that evolution has points and muslim scientists Discovering that you know evolution has points and maybe you have like hindu scientists to cover it It seems like there's an objective truth that's apart from whatever anyone's particular societal upbringing or tradition is that science is very much an independent body That's you know exemplified by the fact that regardless of whatever religious review you have when you do the scientific method properly You come to this one conclusion and I feel like there's value And having different perspectives reached that same conclusion as just a demonstrative I've heard I've seen a meme online that uh, some atheists agnostics and non-religious believe that if there was one religion and it was unified that would actually be evidence of a higher power because unity among the religious Seems to almost be nearly impossible So yeah, it'd be more compelling for me for sure more compelling. It's a good way to say it I don't think it would be evidence. It'd be evidence to just be bad evidence It would be compelling, yeah And that's one of the reasons why I like the whole list of reasons why I decided to believe uh, christianity Is is that it just acted like any other major religion at least monotheistic with all of its divisions and the book itself promised Super natural unity among believers that just there. I mean like technically a Jesus on a piece of toast is evidence. It's just What's your standard and are you willing to accept it here or higher, right? Yeah higher the standard better We bread or white bread because I think that would change it. Oh, it's super important Super important because you got I mean what what what jesus do you think best exemplifies a person born in the middle east in mesopotamia mera? You got to get that wheat baby, right? I will say this this is to eric's point of view I'm going to play uh some devils advocate because I think I see I think I understood where eric was coming from It's like if you just had a religion that wasn't as oppressive that was very much just the mundane sort of loosely held spiritual just be connected with yourself like find a congregation the guys to work with Improve your society and who knows what might happen in the future But at least we will spend now making heaven here basically like in a sense like that I can get behind just the mindset and you don't necessarily have to have a god-believed and have a religion Like it's just more of like a practice of how you you know behave and and and deal with some Some relationships with yourself and other people like you can you can express that religiously without a god-belief And maybe if there was one non theistic god-belief Maybe that'd be cool. What do you think? Yeah, um And uh if a religion that just makes me think like if if a religion has supernatural claims that You don't really that there's a lackadaisical attitude about believing Like there's no threat of hell or reward of having to believe these supernatural claims How many generations if not in the one generation matter was originated would it last? Just like Judaism doesn't really have a strong Yeah, Judaism doesn't have but the afterlife Uh, at least like like a moderate Jew doesn't Like um non-orthodox I guess right so but that's that yeah that one's lasting pretty long Yes, but a lot of them identify culturally as jewish, but intellectually as atheists There's something yeah, yeah too. Well a lot of the eastern religions too They don't have an afterlife belief other than a reincarnation or something on this world um They may think that their spirits uh still In habit the earth or whatever, but there's there's not a whole heaven health a good bad place To go after that, but they're more philosophical religions anyway Dreadpire you might tell me about the pacifarian belief of the afterlife and um how How relevant it is to actual pacifarians? Well, oh, it's it's quite relevant. So in the pacifarian heaven There's a beer volcano Okay in a stripper factory And and i'm a female It's a You know Yeah You got everything Yeah, and then in and then in pacifarian hell Uh, the beer volcano spews out stale beer And the strippers all have std's. Oh, no Good incentive to be good I didn't know there was a hell in the pacifarian world view. There you go Well, if you don't follow the eight, I'd rather you didn't You know you're taking chances there And I don't even like regularly one may touch you in a bad way. Okay Someone's gonna have to explain to me like how to Properly enjoy beer because every single time I try it. I'm like I would rather drink juice Don't you know about apple juice in a box? It's the best drink ever Have you tried a dark beer? Like Guinness It's meal in a glass like isn't this just wheat fermented. It's just like this is pretty gross. Isn't it like hops and stuff Juice tastes better You can make beer out of honey for that matter Uh, so why do we? I was just gonna you know just to talk, uh, you know with jw here on his topic Um, you know, this is something I remember from matt dillahunty is that uh, you know beliefs Have uh inform our actions and actions have consequences And that's why it's important to me Uh as a person to engage people about their beliefs especially religious ones because uh When the world is full of magic and unpredictable Um, it's it's a world I I really wouldn't want to live in And that's why I depend on science as a methodology for investigation So that sounds like there's a strong there's a strong personal benefit for you to care Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's uniform for everybody. Yeah Yeah, I mean I have you know, my kids, you know, my kids and my grandkids My daughter, she's uh, you know born again christian and Like I can't even I can't even engage her on facebook because it's all about you know Her beliefs and and god and and that's of course trickled into her her kids The my grandson Refuses to work on sunday because he says i'm a christian and you know, that's our holy day Can we take a quick time out? I just talk about what the georgian calendar is because God worked for six days in the book He worked for six days and took a rest off on the last day of the week, right? And let's name again to the fact that all seven days are named after different gods, but Sunday is the first day of the week named after the sun, but I'm lovingly in there. It's the first day of the week in hebrew, uh, that I think from what I remember when I was studying hebra roots, it's um That they just number of the days In in in the hebrew language one two three four five six Sabbath Works for me I think but sunday is the first day of the week and on a georgian calendar Saturday is the weekend. It's the weekends the ends of the week Why are people taking saturday off? Why aren't people taking saturday off? That's my thing saturday is the Sabbath day Like that's the day of rest. Why aren't why are people taking the first day of the week? I feel like they're trying to get the double day. They're trying to Be going on when I was studying hebrew roots This was that they the catholic church or the early church before right before became my catholic There's there was a lot of animosity Against the jews because they blame the jews for killing jesus So they came up with all these doctrines to make them so Distinct from from jews and then they they tried their best to justify them with scripture and one of them was Jesus was raised from the dead on sunday, which he really wasn't you could actually make a good argument that he got on Wednesday and rose on saturday But jesus was raised on sunday jesus did away with the law at least the laws that we don't want to do Um, and so that they was just part of that part of all that like we don't have to do this anymore We don't have to do that anymore and anybody who does that anymore is cursed and blinded by satan And so it was just the whole re-empt of oh, this is the new testament. This is the new covenant This is what we do. So basically in in in short in simple terms. They just made stuff up So they would look different I feel like talking about jesus is sort of like talking to a batman fan about where superman died And it's just like no no no he died in chapter 40 episode 46 of what it's like. No wait wait Destro came by from the planet jesus is like it's like everyone It's very contentious, but there's a lot of different narratives competing with each other If only there was like some sort of council that can like choose which chapter is going in the bible or not Gary i'm still sorry for interrupting you Well, that's all right, but I did you know because I was talking about my grandson who like I said just You know he cherry picked something that was convenient for him to use as an excuse to not work on sundays right, you know Like I you know, I I've had a chat over coffee with with my grandson. It's posted on my youtube channel And we talked about santa claus And I was trying to see if there was a way to bridge His because he used to believe in santa claus. I used to be the Community santa claus every year for a number of years. You know, I remember him looking at me with complete awe and astonishment as I was on the slave on the parade through town Um, and he'd come up and he wouldn't recognize me But you know, there was a and then he did then he realized that there is no santa claus And so I was trying to bridge that sort of realization with his current belief in in the deity But it didn't seem to happen or if it did he's still using it as a means to excuse himself from work on sunday so like I say, you know about the connection of You know our beliefs and former actions and actions have consequences. So Yeah, plus it's easy to take a day off. Isn't it like isn't it just like Well, I mean and you could just say that without having to use a higher power as an excuse It's like you can be lazy without being lazy and You know intellectually lazy. You don't have to go there. Yeah, but I think also if um Our beliefs inform our actions, but it it informs our actions even more depending on how seriously We take that belief because um in my 27 26 years of being part of christian church There were a whole level a whole spectrum of people of how how serious they were about their faith And hey, how you doing? um Good thanks. Keep going joey And how serious they were about their faith so It it it it it's there's just a wide range of people and so I think if uh with me You know how serious I was about my faith and how serious I was about the You know, if the bible is true, then I need to obey it That in in time led me out But what the puzzle is what what do you guys think? Uh when you're talking to someone or you know somebody that just has a lackadaisical attitude about it all Well, what would you say to them or how would you get them to that take? You know supernatural beliefs seriously or take take the fact that believing in things that don't have good evidence How would you get them to to see that it's it's a very important thing to Not believe something Without evidence if they just had this lackadaisical meh kind of pocket attitude I will I will awesome right hey if you asked the question joey. We're gonna taper it here But I'm saying like I'm I'm going to take a line from what I heard uh nathaniel say yesterday It's like when is it a good time to be an advocate for the truth? And it turns out there's not really a bad time to not or there's not a bad time Yeah, not be an advocate for the truth. You should always try to be an advocate for the truth That's what compels me and I imagine all of you guys as well to present what is What we believe to be a more objective reality than what's being perpetrated behind a church pew And we and there's of course nice means of doing it and there's you know Really mean ways of doing it when we've chosen like the more cordial way of engaging people Who are willing to have conversations with us and and hopefully through you know a brief conversation Give them the opportunity to change their own mind. It's not something that we're going to do for them It's something they can do only on their own they have to that's yeah And it doesn't work in it. I mean even with a five minute conversation It's not going to change at the end of that conversation But it'll be a pebble in their shoe and I bet you your grandson is going to remember I had a very pleasant conversation with my grandfather My mom says he's an atheist or like as a posthumous or something like that But when my pastor says atheists are bad people I'm going to think about good conversation out with my grandpa I'm going to imagine that he came out and cared about me to the point where we just had a conversation didn't push me anywhere That's going to stick with me a lot more and I'm going to wonder how hard it's going to be for me to get out of this religion What would be like if I said hey Like what kind of like you know hurdles would I come I and are these hurdles representative of the fact that I Believe this is true or that I'm just here because it's more convenient like I have to do that weighing in myself And this is one question I've sort of tossed around in my mind because of course he's he's 17 now And he's he's getting close to the point where Mom's going to be asking him to you know Forge his own destiny and climb on to the mass. I thought you're going to say checks checks Forge his own checks. I didn't know Well, you know You're so inclined. I'm not I'm not sure. Yeah, like jail is free health care. So you might as well But I I would certainly you know, again, it's about fostering that relationship and And you know making sure that when he does get to the point where he's out on his own That you know without the constant influence of his familial Surroundings On him that he may realize that you can't pay rent While you know Saying he he refused to work on Sunday for religious You know for religious grounds, right? Yeah, absolutely may just come to realize Uh, this is the real world after all So the this is your your daughter's son This is my daughter's son. Yeah, so does your does your daughter have any um Restrictions about you talking about post-afarian Well, or And I don't necessarily I just did an se thing. So I didn't really talk uh, past-afarianism. It's, you know He he gets I mean he sees me in the community You know fridays I walk around with the tricorn in the community and uh, you know, I Say ahoy to everyone that I meet and Um, that's just you know an image. I've been building up over time in the community But underlying all of that is, you know, rational free thinking, right? You know just drawing attention to the fact that The differences in our beliefs You know what what we believe is it is important and it has an impact and That what I have to say about my beliefs, you know, while some people think it's crazy When you really look at it, it's About as crazy as everybody else's beliefs, you know when it comes to religion. So So she so to answer your question she doesn't She doesn't limit my in my um interactions with him because for instance, I did ask her directly if I could Have this interview with him and showed on youtube So she was okay with that But partly I think because we didn't talk directly about His god please Mute your mic if you're not talking guys Someone's playing like Or at least turn off the music in the background. All right, so um I just want to say thank you for sharing that story gary. Um, and I I can't tell you how hard it is for coming out of religion To return back to having normal conversations relationship with family members who are still in religion I have a sister that's Muslim. I have a mom that's Jehovah witness I got other family members that are christian and when we have Thanksgiving together It's a very awkward situation because they all look at me like i'm the one that doesn't know what's going on I'm not praying So, you know, I I'm really thankful that I've learned about how to have these kinds of conversations And I'm also really happy that it's not hard to just reach out and talk to someone And I'm I would love to plug that video that you did with your grandson Towards the end of this conversation. So we'll get that link ready and in the meanwhile gary All right larry. We're at the bottom of the half hour. How about you have us out? Well, sure. Uh, this is digital free thought radio hour on w o zio radio 103.9 l p f m Right here in noxville, tennessee will be bright back after this short message Oh, it's the short message the short message of the day go outside You want to play have a volleyball day learn a spike all day? That's my way Oh, what do they say? There's your songs. We're atheists. We do this all day long and we're back to the show 103.9 f m What was oh radio? digital free thought radio hour Very good very well done. Thanks today sunday mark may third 2020 the second half of the show Let's talk about the free thought groups that you can join here in noxville. We'll just mention them shortly It's the atheist society of noxville. We're in our 18th year with over a thousand members come join us You can find us online at noxville atheists dot org By the way, if you don't know, uh, if there's a meetup in your area, you go to Meetup.com and look for it. If you don't find one Start one Uh, another large free thinking group here in noxville is the rationalist of east tennessee That's r e t and you can find them online at rationalist dot org Uh earlier in the show we said we talked about the noxville's atheist calling tv show Is called the free thinkers united coalition of noxville and the reason they say that You were talking last week about uh, ask being the perfect name because it's a great name. You should ask questions The reason they call that free thinkers united coalition is because this tv show is is done by all the different groups Uh ask r e t uh other people who are involved in the other groups. They're here in noxville the uh the sunday assembly Just generally, uh, they all try to have some kind of input So they decided to call the youtube page a youtube channel the free thinkers united coalition of noxville And that's why And you can find it there on youtube if you're interested in getting involved in the tv show or the radio show just come to our, uh, digital free thought radio our web page on facebook Or you can go to um, let's chat And talk to uh, one bad about it Yeah, absolutely point out And we are now back our topic. We were talking about why can't we just leave religion alone? Why do we why don't we just let people believe what they want to? Yeah, and of course we mentioned that the answer is that religion does great harm in the world And maybe we should talk about talk some more about the harm itself. Yeah, absolutely uh Go ahead Uh, I I I wanted I know you're the harm guy So why don't you tell me about this like if I thought I had a soul and that I didn't need to apologize to you If I hurt you and I can just apologize to you know the big guy in the sky Yeah, well you're talking about you're talking about forgiveness. Um If if an atheist hurts somebody harms somebody they have to go to that person and ask their forgiveness And and and make retribution sometimes in order to get that The forgiveness where a believer can just go in the bathroom in their home or whatever a bedroom Kneel down and ask God for forgiveness. That's fine for the for the person who does the problem And uh creates the problem or causes the trespass, but it doesn't do anything For the person who was harmed all Also, buddy. I mean this was an article that one of our uh Digital free thought blog members brought up It says it it lets the if you free like Christianity always says, you know, you need to forgive the people who trespass against you Well, that's fine unless they're a serial trespasser Like uh, like a serial rapist or a misogynist or somebody who does this all the time and you forgive them It just lets them off scot-free And uh, they don't have to answer to the authorities about things like that when you just let it go They're they're free to continue doing what they're doing And I think in the bible that only references people who are within your same belief system So like if you're a samaritan who you know wrong the Hebrew. Oh, we can kill that samaritan That's acceptable Yeah Yeah, go for it. Go for it. Go for it We um, hi for those who haven't met me and Bruce and random kid from new zealand Hello Bruce. Welcome um Would you say that those harms are more to do with The fact that that belief system or religion isn't universal as opposed to the belief system itself So like if everyone is that for me or Larry or anyone anyone really just like if Well, I think like take any of those examples that you used if they applied equally to the people who Had trespassed against you for example Those issues you raised wouldn't necessarily be an issue, right? So it's only an issue because they're talking to or trespassing against someone who's not sharing that perspective Well, I think it's just something I'm throwing out there. Not necessarily when a mindset is dangerous Whereas that's in them kind of thing and that just gets into a lot of stuff Well, I think if it applies to your religion Then it applies if it doesn't then don't worry about it You know if you're if you're like an eastern philosophical religion where you don't have that belief and we're talking about That belief and forgiveness You know per se Then I would I would kind of ignore it But if it if you belong to a religion who who has that Percept Then maybe you should take it hard My thought would be if it was universal it would be less of a problem But it's still a fundamental problem sort of like putting a band-aid on a bleeding wound Like there might still need to be more fundamental work being put on there And yeah, if it's universally that's like putting the band-aid on but the real problem is we all have this mindset that isn't necessarily based on like Value and critical thinking that's getting us possibly motivated to move around in circles and not actually progress forward Yeah, you know one thing I find You know this this question about why we care Um, you know, it's not just about religion, right? So if you if you got magical, I mean if you're thinking magically Things like homeopathy work for you. Yeah You know what I mean and and that then ties into you know, a bunch of people believe in homeopathy They talk to their You know elected officials and and then that becomes included in the health care system and all of a sudden You're your your your health care resources are now being allocated to Systems or alternate medicines that clearly do not work except in magical thinking And that has a real real impact. Yes I mean, it's the same thing as if someone said and on a political scale Yeah, I think you should wear a mask and then next you know 600,000 people are buying up all the n95 masks That a hospital needs to do its work properly so that these people can wear them in non-sterile environments Put them on with non-sterile hands and pick up groceries and throw them away after wearing them for way too long with their design use and so There's there's it's even in science even outside of religion even outside of homeopathy There's just a value towards how do my actions Influence other people and what are the consequences of them in a societal environment and everything has consequences and we have to think about Okay, if that's the case, what's the best course of action? What can I determine is good things and bad things to do moving forward? And if I don't have that critical mindset to parse good actions from bad actions We as a society could practically fall apart and that's why I'm thinking like we're being held together by a glue Of critical thought and we need to make sure we we hold that And and share how that works. That's that's beautifully put. Yeah, we're being held together By a glue of critical thought and we need to work to make sure that that's good. Yeah, bruce. What do you got? um, I was thinking if if you would like if you were to apply that to religion Then you would want to apply that to non-religious actions and thoughts as well, right right, which essentially Insinuates that there's one ideal way to live Because every other everything else that's below that is going to have some kind of impact that's low like, you know It's like it sounds like a very utilitarian Approach to life walk that down even more fundamentally instead of saying there's one good way to live say there's a good way to determine how to live Right and then what is what is real versus what is not real? Yeah Based on your situation your final answer might be different from someone else's but there's a good mindset to have To determine what good actions are between bad actions An outcome might be different for other people, but it's all about the epistemology and what determines when the outcome is different We can talk about this more offline. This sounds like it'll be a lot longer conversation in just 15 minutes Brute Bruge. Oh, what do you what do you think about this so far? Boudreau, what do you think about this? Oh, uh, I heard uh, I heard brew. Uh, I thought it was bruce brew. You're good. Sorry. Sorry Yeah, yeah, uh, no i'm i'm uh I'm liking this that it sounds like we're kind of getting into that area of morality where you're trying to use And philosophy or ethics in general. Yeah, we're trying to use science to inform ethics morality Which I think is the best thing to do and I think that's the way we can come up with something objective Across the board doesn't matter skin color religion anything. There is There's a weighted Way of um, best way to live. Yeah, I have a question. Oh dealing with religion. I mean dealing with reality We've got a quick question throughout uh, and and I'll throw this out to gary in fact because he beat me twice So gary go for it and then I got a question out go for gary I was just gonna say that You know critical thing of course is about you know, a reliable a reliable methodology for investigating The world that yields reliable results You know, and that's kind of what I think about when I'm you know, I don't know if you're familiar with uh shirmers of bologna Test kit detections kit a bologna detection kit. Yeah um, and you know, I just see I'm I've been actually putting together this idea that I should go to the local college And see if I can put on a small course on On bologna detection and just use their their course manual because I think the value Of those critical thinking skills is immeasurable. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not something that's regularly taught You have no it's not and it's something like you can forget it Like if you don't do it long enough it can go away. It's not like riding a bike You have to train yourself do it in school. It seems like we are taught to retain information and repeat information right What to think not how to think and there's always a right answer and you have to do it And it's better to guess than to say you don't know which in a lot of times is actually the best answer Um, hey, I got a question. This is going back on boudreau's point. He said that what if there was one kind of religion? Would that be better? Hear me out go on a limb with me. What if it was just one kind of atheism because we all know textbook definition atheism is just not believing a god There's a lot of different people who don't believe in god. That's fire. But when you talk to people There's clearly Beyond just the idea that they aren't convinced that it gots true. They have different compulsions and flags and and and things that they the support don't support And it appears from the theistic point of view that there's just so many different kinds of atheists and they aren't really Yes, I agree with each other and that there's no general unison or consensus and that's why they're so angry with each other and Wouldn't it be better if there was just one straightforward platform for atheism? Yes Larry, what do you think about that? um One straightforward platform for atheism. Yeah, just what there is there not Just we I I preface this question with that but like if you talk to someone who also doesn't believe in a god, but also says they're um The also I mean Atheism is one answer to one question. Right. I mean, Larry you're a bad person to go to first for this What do you think about this? He's crossing his arms while he answers this I love I love this time because what do you got? This is something I think we brought up before that one of the past Presidents of an atheist group got up and and talked to a group of atheists and and and yelled at them and said look We have a problem We don't all identify as the same thing. Exactly. We have nuns. We have atheists and that's n o n e We're the free thinker coalition. We've got the rational east of tennessee. Yes, it's like come on guys We we should all band under one name epithet whatever you want to call it because then we can check a box on a demographic Is a good label. What is? Stacular humanism. I think that's a great label, but again, we're not all picking it and then there are spiritualists There are our agnostics and asians Positvarians So when we fill out a form And and we're trying to get some kind of political power behind our voice We're all checking different boxes or choosing not to check a box or none. Yeah. Yeah, I love I love this thought I I think you're right. We need to kind of all I agree. Yeah, we have so much more powerful You showed me the docking scale. Haven't you like multiple on multiple occasions? I would say like once you're past a certain number you're this Yeah, but you can always be different numbers of this. Yeah, but you are this Oh, eric perfect question for you. Yeah, so it's a it's a seven point scale richard dockins put together uh, basically to kind of define your your your belief in Or disbelief belief in yeah, you're six, right? I'm sorry. He said he yeah, he said he was a six He actually was The first one to convince me that I wasn't a seven a seven is you absolutely believe there's no god You know it a hundred percent true, right and a one as you absolutely believe there's a god A hundred percent is true and then you've got range in between but but yeah, you're right He he claims he's a six because he doesn't know There's no god. He just doesn't believe in one. So he's an agnostic atheist exactly And that's what I think most rational atheists are I am But yeah, you still like food fighters. So yeah, kind of I I never really thought of that being united under one banner and continue ourselves one people group Dredpire, what do you think about this? I'll get you from Wayne I you know and thanks for asking. I actually put myself at a seven I think uh, I for a long time Tried to sell myself as a six But that's essentially a pascal's wager proposition you know, I've just everything I just you know Yeah, I'm a seven everything I'm a strident atheist. Are you saying are you saying you know every single possible proposed god? Or are you saying you're talking about knowledge versus belief? Yeah, that's well a seven combines the two unfortunately I actually might be a seven Yeah, I'm yeah, I might why I think I I think I'm a seven Because it's more of I forget the guy who said he says he's he's a militant agnostic He's he's an I don't know and you don't either So if I'm pretty sure that no one else can really know what was before the big bang or No one else can really know if there's other dimensions that are super naturally or Or that there might be a god somewhere else in the universe Or another and if we don't know then we don't absolutely know that it doesn't exist. That's why Up within our head that's not based on science can't possibly be Of the reflection of reality. Yeah, here's the great thing about I don't know is I don't have to figure that out I can just be not convinced that it's true And I think that's good enough a place for me to be at But if you very well define the god that we are talking about like incredibly well defined I can see myself as a seven if it's Absolutely not possible for something like that to exist or if it's in itself contradictory So certain gods. Yeah, I can be even like a 7.7 or 7.0 6.7 whatever But when it's just does god exist, I have no idea what you're talking about I don't know is the better answer and 999 is fine until you convince me Then I have no reason to believe that and I don't know if that's true I can see six is like it's again. Yeah, it sounds like seven is like nothing that will happen Will make you believe in god like if god appeared right now and like made your great grandfather come back to life and Something like that and Yeah, or whatever example you could think of and that would still make you not believe in god Seven is more. I really think that's highly unlikely to No, no, no, no that's not how the docket skill works, you know, it's highly six is the highly unlikely. Yes Yeah, I'm closed-minded. Yeah seven is absolute a one is an absolute both of those are scary places to be very No, no offense to someone to pick a seven. I was a seven I had to stop and I'm a 6.9999 almost repeating right depending on what we're talking about. Yeah Yeah, that's that's such a great point. So you're the asymptote of atheism sure sure well That's rude Gary watch it. We have a we have a speech filter here And I don't want to edit everything all over once you get past the three you're an atheist on the scale So atheism isn't in question here. It's Gnosticism. That's in question. There you go. That's why I like it And we can all be atheists even with that even with all this kind of I'm with you I think it's a belief scale and we're not talking about knowledge And I've got the scale up here and it says strong theists or strong atheists. They're not talking about Gnostics They're talking about atheists. Well, there there is another dimension to it too. There's there's supposed to be a box where you It's on how you word atheism. It's just like I know there is no god or I have no reason to that's Gnosticism So just to summarize so just if I may address Your bruce's we we're running out of time won't we're running out of time. So we're just going to summarize Clearly even in this boardroom of you know, well like minded friends that like meet and talk on a regular basis There's still conflict with regard to labels and and I guess diagrams and stuff like that And so I think this speaks to the idea of It be worthwhile to just have like a unified front I think there could be some advantages there unlike religion where I can find that stifling I feel like for atheism to have our voices be heard at least on a political scale. It could be really valuable Um guys, we are down to the couple last couple of minutes of the show Gary, can you please tell me about that video that you're talking about with your grandson and how we can find it? Well, sure. Yeah, uh, so my youtube channel is mind pirate and pirate is spelled p y r a t e And I have a number of videos up there. Um I Can't remember off the top of my head which one it is but he looks like a young fella. Um, so What's it called? What's the name of the video? What's the name of the video? Um, what's the name of your grandson? Well, you know, I don't include his name because um, his mom, you know suggests that I don't he's just 17 um He is some It's it's a name you wouldn't associate with a person. So it's a clearly made up name. So I just I'm sorry I don't have it right in front of me It's on mind pirate cool Yeah, um, joey, I think it's a santa claus or something is in the title too. So cool joey What can people find your stuff and uh, you just started your channel mind plugging that again? I um, I don't I don't have any videos or any content on either one of my channels right now for my music and my comedy It's going to be just jw kennedy. Just look up jw kennedy on youtube and uh, jwk Hates the news on twitter and for my street epistemology Accounts it's going to be speak your beautiful mind. So just look up speak your beautiful mind on youtube and on twitter It's at you you are at your beautiful mind spelled you are On twitter. Cool bruce. Thank you for joining us. Uh, you're always welcome to come back for a longer extended discussions Is there anywhere that you post stuff or any videos and stuff like that that you like anything you want to promote? Uh, no Okay Nice and short and sweet. Woodrow. What do you got for us? I keep threatening that chat and I are going to release our Our video we recorded it last week. I'm going to do some edits and some cool stuff I will post that out and share it here But in the meantime go watch, uh, my covet 19 cover of overkill. Yes, man at work. It's hilarious It's very very good. Also props to vivian for an awesome flute solo. She was she was a star Yeah, it was great. It was great. Uh, so i'm let's chat. You can find me on youtube under let's chat I've also got a twitter at five minute chat. That's the number five m i n c h a t Uh, because of the quarantine thing we've I've had a lot more time to be making videos So there's a whole new suite of videos from cpac 2020 that you can find Talked to a guy who thought taxes were in christian talked to a guy who thought he had a right to believe in god And that's why he believes in god and then also talked to a guy who was from alaska Came down to cpac and was basically terrified of republicans and just wanted to see Okay, these guys are determining a reason. Yeah, how my state's being ran I just want to see if I can talk and have a reasonable conversation with any of them And is there a good way for me to have that kind of conversation? Man, it was a great talk I'm so glad he ran into me Find those on my channel. They're coming out every thursday larry all of all for you Okay, just before I get into that uh, budgerow. I did look at it a little closer I see the knowledge portion of it under each one. So you're right. Thank you Good job. Good job. Okay, everybody be sure to visit digital freethought.com click on the blog button You can also find our radio show archives there Atheist songs many articles on the subject including the one that we were talking about today or The subject anyway, it's called what's so wrong with religion check it out It's very itemized long list If you have any questions for the show, you can send them to ask an atheist at noxfilatheist.org And we'll try to answer them on future shows. You can also leave comments on the blog or the Facebook page for digital freethought radio hour or the youtube channel That tyrone has uh, yeah, let's chat go there and you can find our show with the video And you'll also find our show on podcasts like itunes stitcher luminary podcast.com, etc And as a reminder like I remind everybody every week Everybody is going to somebody else's hell The time to worry about it is when they prove that heavens and hell's and souls are real Until then don't sweat it. Enjoy your life and we'll see you next wednesday Take care say bye