 Good morning, Hillary. Hi. It's 4pm here. Good afternoon to you. And good morning to you. Yes, thank you. How are you today? I'm fine. I've just got back from a walk. Oh, nice. We have a gloomy day here. How about you? Well, it was a bit gloomy this morning, but the sun then came out. So it brightened up a bit, and we did manage to go for a walk without getting the rain on. So that's one thing. But we've got snow on the hills now. Oh, yeah. I'll show you. If I can. Oh, yes. Where are you exactly? I want to get this right. I live in North Wales in what's called the Conwy Valley. Okay. So have you heard of Conwy Castle and Conwy? It's right on the north coast, not far from Plundid now. I see. Okay. I'm interested in Anglesey. Anglesey is not far from us. Anglesey is a bit that sticks out at the top, the island at the top. Right. We're on the coast, just down the coast from there on the north-west coast. Okay. Yes. Yeah. I believe that there's some family connection from, I mean, right now my family research is in South Gloucestershire, but there are hints and rumours that, of course, Wales is just over the river from where my family is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'll be from Gloucestershire. Yeah. So I've been a PC coordinator for England and Wales. I'm quite well aware of. Most of the geography, lots of little places still come across that I don't actually, you know, don't actually have heard of and I have to look them up. So at least I know where to look them up. Well, thank goodness for Google Maps. Well, I use something called Vision of Britain, which is quite good for places and things, but not everything's on there. Not all the little hamlets and tithings are on there, but we use, because it's what we use in the project for locations. Right. Yeah. One of my, let's see, he would be my great-great, no, my second great-grandfather was born in Cow Hill. Oh. Yeah. So I've got Wiltshire's family direct. My grandmother was born a Wiltshire, but I also got family from Wiltshire. So it can be quite confusing when you're trying to research. Sure. Well, I see we've got Emma Wading. I've made you a co-host. Right. And did you want me to admit her? Sure. You can go ahead. I've seen that Chris, my message, Chris witnessed that we disable Wiki Tree B. Yeah, I haven't done that yet. Let me just do it so that I'm not going to mock anything up. I'll admit Emma. Let's go to my extensions. I've got that many extensions on here. I'm trying to find it. Do you use Chrome? Yeah. All right, I've got it. Okay. I've got Wiki Tree B, the browser extension, the sorcerer. I've actually no longer got Wiki Tree X and the Wiki Tree Toolkit on, which I did have on Wiki Tree Plus. I haven't got up there as an extension anymore, but I had quite a lot of them. I've got lots of other ones as well. Good morning, Emma. Good morning, Bill. Good morning. How, where, where are you zooming in from? I am in Norman, Oklahoma. Ah, okay. And I'm wearing my house robe. Lucky you. I mean, I was in my bathroom, but I upgraded to a sweatshirt. Where are you guys? I'm in Chicago. Okay. And I'm in North Wales. Oh, wonderful. Well, I've discovered in my genealogy that I have some, some roots in Wales. Well, I am one of the project coordinators for the Wales project. Oh, wonderful. Well, if you, if when, you know, when you're perhaps a bit more, you know, if you're fairly new to Wiki Tree, then I'd say get a bit used to Wiki Tree. But if you get to the point where you're needing to do things in a particular country, it's often, it's often worth joining the project to get the help from the people in the project. Yeah, I've been really active on ancestry and family search and my heritage. But I, you know, I signed up, you know, to get the emails from Wiki Tree, but I, that's why I'm here today is because I really don't understand a lot about it. Well, I'm also one of the greeters and mentors as well. So hopefully I've got enough to, I said I'd help Betsy because he's obviously more familiar with things in the States. I don't have a family in the States, but they, they're not my direct ancestors, they're cousins because I've got a family that moves there rather than sure. Looks like we lost Emma. Hopefully she'll come back. Yeah. The Sunday, the Sunday Zoom is always much smaller. So you'll get, you'll get our undivided attention. I know the West Coast lot that's probably a bit quite, yeah, the West Coast close ones, it's probably quite early for them, isn't it? Yeah, it's not too bad, it's about 80 far. Yeah. It's about 4pm over here. So it's, it's a reasonable time for people to join from the UK, but it's, it's, it's people remembering or not being in the middle of doing something else. Well, I think we should just dive in with your questions. If you could just kind of give me, you know, like a brief introduction to wiki tree and kind of how it differs maybe from the other ancestry sites. Sure, sure. And by the way, I someone pointed out to me that my name tag is wiki tree. By the way. Let's see. Well, I too started my journey on ancestry. So I'm really familiar with their website. I do a lot with family search. So I would say wiki tree and family search are similar in that they're both one one world tree. But I quickly found out on family search that there's just there, there are many, many cooks in the kitchen, and they're, they're not a lot of centralized guidelines or code of behavior. And in fact, that's what wiki tree has is the honor code. It's like 10 points where if you decide you really want to become active you need to sign that and you know it's things about being promising to, you know, add sources and, you know, just collaboration and civility all good things. So I think as I got involved in wiki tree that's how I found the biggest difference that that was the winning difference for me. Because it was really important for me to prove things rigorously and it kind of drove me crazy when I would go on family search and I'd see some illogical thing and, you know, there wasn't necessarily going to comment to explain why it had been done. Whereas on wiki tree you, you can and should do that, you know, if you make a change. Yeah, yeah. And I'm, and I'm at least somewhat familiar with the. Well, with you, I guess it's the American genealogical society standards for proof. I took course just about this time last year from the University of Boston, but an introduction to geology course. It seems like it was about eight weeks. And it was very, it was very helpful, but it was also in a way kind of like trying to drink from a fire hose. They every lesson, and it was good, you know what and I saved everything I really should go back and and every lesson they would present a new topic, for example, you know, using census records might be one of the topics, and then they would give you several things that they had, you know, pulled from various census records and would give you tasks to, you know, find something a little bit deeper than how you would document that. And it was just, I found that the resources were so abundant, which I said is wonderful, but it was almost like if, you know, it was hard to keep up with it for me. Yeah, because it was just, you know, because I would really get into it and start working on it. I mean, some of these things, as you all will know, and take you finally, you know, and it was, and it was almost like, Oh, I'm not finished with this one and here's another one. And as well the repository of records keep expanding. So even if it's not there in 2016 it might be there in 2018. Yeah, well and one of the things that I've that I've noticed, particularly in the last few years is because so many people are being interested in so much as being added to the database of the DNA database, you know, that in particularly on ancestry, they have a thing now and I don't know how long that's been in existence but I just happened to notice it. So I don't know before, right around Thanksgiving time here, which would be, you know, late November, I noticed that they had a thing where when you, you know, went to a tree in ancestry, then it, and you had, you had been able to go back four generations, then all of a sudden the thing appeared that said potential father mother person, you know, right and but but what I've noticed also, thankfully not frequently but one particular mind, it was like they had someone as a potential mother and father, and then the next generation, and then the next generation was that same potential mother and father that was beneath that one, you know, so it's like, they couldn't have been this person's father and son at the same time. Right, right. And those those hints are, I mean, they're not human generated their, their. Yes, algorithm generated. Yes, yeah, great clues. And you know, they can lead you places or not. Excuse me. Welcome, Judith. Hello. Hello. Hello, where are you doing this. Yes. I'm in, I'm in Britain. I'm in Yorkshire, England. Oh, I've been to Yorkshire. Oh, lovely. Did you enjoy it. Very, very much. My wife and I, one of our favorite television programs is the new iteration of. I won't be able to think of it. It's about the vet. Oh, you mean James Harriet. Great and small. And I have several of my lines that go back to Yorkshire. So I've never been written, but I, I definitely want some. So where are you then? I am in Norman, Oklahoma. Okay, yes. Which is a suburb. It's, it's in a different county, but it's, it's rapidly becoming a suburb of the greater Oklahoma city area. And I'm in Chicago. You're Betsy. Yes. Hello. Chicago. Right. And I'm in, in North Wales. Oh, you're in Britain. I'm actually, I'm actually English, but I've lived in Wales for almost 30 years now. But I've, I've, I've, I've all got all my heritage is, is English. There are connections to Wales, but it's generally English. Okay. And Judith, how long have you been on wiki tree? Probably about a year, but there's some things I just don't really understand about it. I do get caught up with things and it seems to be. Some things I think maybe stop me putting things on as much as I could, because I like the way it has to be quite accurate. But I think it can be a little bit restrictive because you think if I don't know the exact everything about everything, I shouldn't put something on. Well, what you, what you can do if you're a little uncertain about something is, is to put a research note. And that's the best place to. Okay. Well, let me screen share. Yes. And think of a profile where I've done a research note. Okay. Can everybody see my screen? Yes. Good. All right. I'm going to move this there. Okay, let's see, maybe one of my tutors. I don't have research notes on him, George. Okay. Yes. Yes. So here is my great grandmother. And so you see, I have the biography. And I have the sources, but in between, I have this section, which is very easy to add in. I can show you research notes where I just make, you know, a comment about actually my grandmother who changed her name from Mabel to Margaret. So that was initially very confusing to me when I, because my, no one spoke of it in my, in my mom had even forgotten that. So I thought, you know, let me save people the trouble. And you can see that I have my signature here. So I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that with my wiki tree ID and the date that I made the calm date and time I made the comment. Now, if you want to see how I did that, you know, if it's something very basic, you don't need to sign it, but if it's something that you, you know, sort of want to take credit for, you're basically your kind of the source for the comment, then it's a good idea to do that. So going into edit mode. And if you are, if you put any biography or anything under in edit, do you have to know how to do the computer programming with the specific punctuation or not? Well, you do have to learn how to do some things. And that's why we're here to help with that. Yeah, yeah. what I would suggest is if you're in Yorkshire and you've got English ancestry and it's mostly English you would probably be better off joining the England project because you'll get a lot of help when you join. Really? Yeah, I'm actually the England project membership coordinator or one of the two. Hello, Harry. So if I know what your wikitree id is, if you put your wikitree id in the chat there, I'll send you a link to the joining thing and then you can have a look at it and make your mind up with you because we will say you'll learn an awful lot and you'll also be able to access a lot of information as to how to do certain things as well and some of it is visual and some of it's written but whichever suits you the best. The England project was one of the first to set up what we call, well we call it an orphan trail. It's called other things for some of the other projects but it just means that somebody with more experience can help you and get you to a certain level. So I put that into chat, yes. And I need to do that as well, Hilary, because when I, like on ancestry, when I look at the pie chart, you know, of my ancestry from the DNA, I'm like 80 to 85 percent British child, Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland. So does wikitree have one for each of those areas? Yeah, you used to just have a United Kingdom project and then it's split up into the individual countries so depending on where you are, ideally you join one where you've probably got the nearest to you initially because that's probably, you'd go in with something looking at records, more recent records and then you can work your way back through to the older records where obviously there's less things available. Yeah, that would probably be England and Scotland. And I can attest, I just finished first level of the England project orphan trail a few weeks ago and it was a great learning experience and I'll be I'll be carrying on into the second level in a few weeks. So I can't recommend it enough. I tried to help with the Scotland trail but I didn't get very far and I had to give up and hope that what I'd done would help but I do, did think there's a Scotland, oh what do you call it, Scotland's people and I thought that was a good resource but even then I couldn't really do it properly but I don't think there's anything equivalent for England. As I said it's the actual orphan trail is what we do so we start with the period from 1837 up to about right about 1950-ish because there's a lot that covers a lot of the records that are quite easily available and they're not all of and also we try to encourage people to use free resources rather than the pay sites. So you're therefore not spending money on something and you're working very expensive. Yeah so I will as I say it's if you're not spending money out you feel like you can do have a look and give you an opportunity to find those resources for your own family that you can then add into your tree where you don't have to actually have bought things necessarily to do things. Yes yes I have looked at the Mormon one. Family search. Yes family search quite a bit but I find some of the things are inaccurate a little bit but it I mean it helps to have something even if you know something might be inaccurate but it doesn't show you the actual documents I don't think. It's very interpretation of a document. For instance I found they put a place name as Eastburn which I know was Saltburn because it was in the teeside archives and Eastburn in Yorkshire is near Keafley and West Yorkshire it's only a few miles from here and I know it's not under the teeside archives. I tried to send them a message but I don't think it got there I don't know what happened but on the other hand it can be quite useful and also I found one or two people that I've been able to communicate with that I know I must be related to somehow. I've actually put the link in the in the chat there so and that's the g2g post where you just need to if you just say you want to join the project and that and then I'll leave a message so that you know how to contact me and I can send you a lot more information. I'm going to save that and I hope it's still there when we're finished I think it should be. I'll take your your information anyway and if I don't hear anything at least I know that I can get in contact with you. Oh thank you yeah because it is a bit scary. I missed a meeting that I meant to join previously a few months ago and I think it was with Betsy and I said some of my sister-in-law's family don't have documentation because they come from a country where things like that they weren't they wasn't a paper document in the past. I think it was to you Betsy I can't remember but it's bringing up vague memories and in the g2g that we yes yes because she's from Sarawak in Borneo and I know the names of lots of her relatives the ones who were born in England or Australia there's probably there will be birth certificates for but people like her father and her grandfather born in Sarawak there's no paper documentation I don't think they can't even prove they own their own homes or land and it can be taken from them and cut down for growing palm oil things because they don't have paper documentation it wasn't part of their their way of life so you know that sort of brings up all sorts of things. Yes and I would bet that there's someone in you know Wiki Tree has almost a million members which is 900,000 some and there's probably somebody who knows about that area and what might be available could you put in the chat what it is and I'll see if I can find out for you. Yes okay um yeah in the meantime welcome Elaine. Hi where where are you joining us from? Hi I'm in Somerset in England. Welcome. Hello hello. We have Somerset, Yorkshire and and Oklahoma, Wales and Chicago. I am. Hi Hilary. I'm the one of the project coordinators for the England and Wales project. I've actually got English ancestry but I live in live in Wales so. I live in England and I've got Welsh ancestry. Yeah yeah so I was just saying about the England project for the these two other people because they they've both got some English ancestry that they they probably need to document saying how how we would help them to sort out what they need to do for their um to get their in their English ancestry on on on to Wiki Tree. I have a general question so um you know as I said earlier I've been interested in genealogy. I started getting really interested when I was in my 30s and of course back then it was so much more difficult now but but now because so many people are having DNA testing my my you know my tree used to go back to about my great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents and now of course I don't know that all of this stuff is verified but at least according to ancestry I possibly know my eight great-great-grandparents and my 16 great-great-great-grandparents and I'm wondering how do you decide which direction to go in? That's that's a really great question let me let me get out of this by the way this down here at the bottom is a really helpful button if you you know I went into edit mode to show you all the research notes but I'm not going to save anything so return to the profile without saving. So speaking of what you're saying which way to go there's this tab family tree and tools which is one of several ways on the Wiki Tree has thanks to our our brilliant coders who design apps and extensions this is only one of many ways you can look at your family tree but I've grown very comfortable looking at my tree this way and so it can help you decide which way you know I can see oh I really do need to get the great-grandmother in here and this this is of my great-grandmother so yeah. Well well I think more specifically my question is do you do you work when you I'm wanting to so like where yours says Isaac early that's your grandparents right no that's your here this is my third fourth he's my fourth great-grandfather. So let's say you filled out everything to your fourth great-grandparents do you do you work on that line until you get all of them filled out before you try to find things for then their parents or do you pick Sarah Gainer and then just go with her as far back as you can or is it just a matter of choice? I think it's a matter of choice okay and you know sometimes unfortunately we hit a brick wall you know I couldn't be going back for Sarah Gainer and back and back and bam you know I can't go any further it might have I you see I have some some tutors in my tree and that's been a line of great interest for me for sure I just you know I have spent a lot of energy there because of that so it's really it's personal yeah Hilary what do you think yeah well I started my research before lots of stuff was available online I had to go to archives and places to even just find some of the indexes when I started researching over 20 years ago and the so I basically all I started with originally was searching my straight straight line ancestry but I've also been researching my husband's side of the family because for my son there they're all his ancestors so I've got a lot of people on WikiTree that I've researched but finding information sometimes it can be useful to when you get to an ancestor to then look at they're all look at their descendants because if you can then come in contact with somebody that shares that ancestor with you they might have more information than what you can glean through what's available online or even in the archive um can you tell me what you think about um family stories um I've I've heard family stories that have turned out to be true and family stories that have turned out to be at least partly true but are some of them just terrible bum coming obviously don't know my family question but yeah that's a grain of truth in most family stories sure um yeah and and Elaine I did see you uh we'll come back and when we finish this topic um well speaking of my tutors um my my um my mom and my aunt and and um my my grandmother there's this this persistent belief that yes we go back to Henry Tudor um this that's what got me into genealogy I was eight years old and I I had been given tutor as a middle name and I I thought well you know I want to find out more about this and you know I went away for many decades and then come back came back to it um I I have not proved it or I'm not convinced but I have found in obituaries of tutors um and there are you know through collateral lines there there are many tutors all over the place you know that that belief goes back into the early 19th century and in the family and that that intrigues me because I'm thinking well the farther back the belief goes you know I mean where there's smoke there may be fire you know so I haven't haven't given up but like I said I'm I'm not convinced would DNA be the way to go um it could be um yeah the the so I would have to go back for a male ancestor I would have to go back to my second great grandfather because I'm the daughter of a daughter of a daughter and so on yes and I'm that is across my mind that I could trace through him down to a male descendant and then see if I could do something with why DNA yes uh yeah family stories are are they they're tantalizing I've just been looking up some stuff on wiki tree about um right I have a link with the tutors believe it or not I just been looking up uh I have um a fifth great grandfather whose name was Charles Gastonot who was the son of French Huguenot refugees and his brother was called George Gastonot and he emigrated to the United States to um where was it Virginia I think uh it was before it was the United States it was counted as a colony of England sorry um um uh he married a woman called Mary Marvel who was directly descended from um Lattice Knowles and Mary Berlin Mary Berlin was because she was a mistress of Henry VIII it's possible that her daughter was a daughter of Henry VIII she was already married to somebody else so this isn't at all clear um was married with the tutors yes interesting because it was Anne Bolin was a second wife and so how was Mary related to Anne sister sister yeah yeah interesting but uh anyway I've just been looking into because it was a bit yes yeah I mean I I figure my my own personal family story probably is something you know through a collateral line I don't think we're directly we couldn't be directly well yes this obviously if we were directly descended we well we'll probably be the queen of England or something so it can't be Elaine what was your question well sorry the conversation has moved on but um we were talking about how to go back do you go back through a direct line forever and ever until you did but well I find it very difficult because I start working on somebody and I go oh that's interesting so I never actually gets very far because I'm constantly talking on more and more interesting things I have a I have a story that kind of illustrates what Judith was talking about about family stories my maternal grandfather uh my mother's maiden name was Schrader and they and we now know that her and I think third great grandfather was the one who changed the name from SCHRADER to just SRADER but but my grandfather's grandfather was named Felix Jefferson Schrader and the story in the family from my grandfather and from he had 14 brothers and sisters and so the story was that Felix Schrader had immigrated from Germany and came to America from uh landed at the port of Galveston which is on the coast of Texas and that and the Schrader family at least going back you know a couple of three generations all lived in Texas and so for years and years and years we believe that story and in fact one time I was making a trip not specifically for genealogy but for a conference and it was in Austin Texas which is the capital of Texas where they have the state historical society and so forth and so we had a break in the conference and I went down there and asked them about that and they said well if he immigrated through the port of Galveston it's unlikely that there's going to be any records of that because uh there was a terrible hurricane sometime in the early 1900s I mean like around 1900 191 192 something like that and it just basically destroyed the city of Galveston and all their records were lost and so I thought well I'll give up on that but then because of the you know the rapid proliferation of knowledge about ancestry we now know that that's not true at all the the Schrader came from Schrader from Germany to America and into Maryland in about the 1700s but I've traced the Schrader line and again all this is not documented right now it's just supposition but at least on on ancestry and on wiki tree I mean on my heritage and on family search so you know again I guess that's another question is if something shows up on all three of those genealogy sites is it three errors or is it or is it three confirmations but anyway grandpa always said that one of the places that our our german Schrader line came from was a city in Germany called Sullingen and it's near Essen and it's an area that's known for traditionally it's been known for cuttle re making knives and swords and things like that and one of the Schrader lines about that goes back into Germany was in Sullingen so it was interesting to me that he had that part right but he certainly they certainly didn't have the part right about Felix Jefferson coming up through Texas so I got that's a I think that's an example maybe of what you're talking about you hear a family story and maybe bits of it may be true but then I thought I although it's I'm glad that wiki tree makes you verify everything because otherwise you're just guessing yeah it's so easy to just for somebody to put up a family tree on ancestry or any of the websites and just say that somebody was such and such and that and and not attach anything to it and it can be unsourced and you know people pass things on through um jed coms through work through emails through whatever they pass it on to somebody else and because something appears 10 times doesn't mean to say that it's correct you really want I I mean I've done I did a lot of um uh video conferencing with um somebody called Pat Richley Erickson she was uh her aka was demerital she she stopped um doing things last April um but she used to do things on a Monday um and that for a video thing every pretty much every week and she also did some study groups and things and and some of them were like looking at how do you uh genealogical proof in other words what have you got to prove that somebody's the father of somebody or somebody's the mother of somebody and it it sometimes it's the amount of different records that you got but quite often it's when that record was recorded and who recorded it rather than the fact that you've got about five sentences saying somebody's was born in such and such but the actual baptism record says something different and the baptism was recorded by in the church close to when that person was born so the chances are that maybe that one record might be correct and all the rest um incorrect because somebody is incorrectly was perhaps moved when they were very young and thought that they were born somewhere there they weren't so it's so important that that's why wikitree wants to you to put the records on or put what you can of the records on or where did you get that information from basically if it came from a an unsourced tree then you've always going to be thinking well i'll put this on as a speculation i'm not sure about it i'm now going to look for the records to back up because somebody told me this was true but the earlier you go back the more wikitree wants you to say well you don't don't create a profile for somebody unless you've got a what we call a primary source a source that was recorded pretty much at the time of the end of an event rather than later can i just mention though that a great grandfather of mine has three different places of birth in censuses and they are official records and he's down as having been born in three different places but i i've i've come across people that every almost pretty much every census something slightly different sometimes it's because they want to they they say something more specific so they might tell you that they were born in somewhere which is a little hamlet of a parish and then another census might say the parish or the nearest town i mean sometimes but you know sometimes sometimes it can be widely different because it depends who who gave the information to the enumerator if all you've got is enumerators books whereas if you've got something that they wrote down themselves yes again it still remember it still depends on who wrote it down it still depends on who gave the information if it was enumerators sometimes make mistakes because i've found um census forms with spelling mistake of somebody in my family an artist is written as alice and i know it was artist uh when you know somebody in your family has had that name and then it's written wrongly and you're trying to say to people look that's wrong yeah yeah yeah i mean it's it's hard to conceive now but i mean literacy was and spelling were not where they are now you know hundred 150 years yeah and um yeah i mean i think at least on a death certificate there's the name of the informant is you can kind of you know guess you know like how likely is this person to have accurate information yeah but in the case of the census i always keep that in mind that the person providing the information could have been um a child in the family it could have been the neighbor even yeah um yes yes my favorite so the wedding and the marriage certificates because those they're amazing that they the absolute rubbish you come across in them people just put down what they wanted other people to believe uh yeah they're worse than the burial certificates and and and yes and the birth certificates and the baptism register yeah there's a there's a marriage record for my my maternal grandparents and my grandmother was uh 17 when they married and if you look at the marriage certificate they said she was 22 quite common yeah all the all the father when the person when when you've when you've got the birth record and they were obviously illegitimate because they didn't give any mother's maiden name so you think well yes and you can't find any father and yeah well in the people and this this same set of grandparents we only found out when when my grandfather died that he and my grandmother had both been married before they married and and it was something that wasn't hope i mean i think my maybe my my mother and her sisters knew it but they didn't tell all the great children well i've got i've got a one place study and recently i was going through trying to find um people in the some of the earlier censuses and things and i found somebody had married in my one place study is a village where i live in well somebody had married in this village i then found a newspaper report that this person was being charged with bigger b he had married a few years before between the censuses between the previous census and that and and the census i had him on and he'd actually married in the place where i come from in england which which quite amused me so i've now i've now i've now i did a bit more information to his profile so and i need to add his um his first wife but his first wife um by the time of this census record that i had she had remarried but she's got children with her that were obviously from her first marriage and his name was different in all sorts of things but i actually came across it in the newspaper so it you just don't know what you're going to come across yeah i think bigamy was a big deal wasn't it yeah my family had had bigamous marriages um very difficult for people to get divorced in those days of course so yeah probably a lot more than than we like to think can i ask a question uh because i'm quite new to wiki really i'm really enjoying it because i i love the way that you have to put a source for everything that anybody otherwise you get challenged brilliant so you always you know it's much more trustworthy than any anything else i've come across but i do have a problem because i would very much like to put actual copies of documents that i've um garnered and i figure out how to put anything like that on our photograph is there a way of doing that well we can go over how to add a photograph yeah ah yes um uh no you want to yeah because people do put op documents what i would do is um i mean a lot of my documents are pdf'd but i i would convert that into a jpeg i think that would be easy yeah um hillary do you have any photos to add um not at the moment no i don't actually have a lot of um photographs that i uh that i need to i think i've i have added some to my some of my tree i have added um certificates actually um but um i i don't have any that i need to add i have certainly got um uh profiles that i've already added things right right well what i'll do um i i will pretend i will pretend to add a photograph and then i'll stop short of the final the final step um so let's see if i go to myself and let's just go to um oh that's still to her okay to me my father and his brother okay um right so you can see i have two two photographs already um and so you would um to add uh you know something uh jpeg of a document it would be exactly the same process actually i do i have a photo of him to add so i have no idea i'm not following this how do i go into images go into yes so i'm in the profile that is you know you're interested in and now go to the images tab yeah and then it says uh do you have a photo or click to upload uh right i have missed this then that's that sounds really easy many thanks yes yeah and then you just choose the fall actually i can go all through the uh through the process so let's see i have his wedding photo um and it is important wiki tree puts a really high priority on um not violating copyright issues so um like here i'm going to say scans from family collection um now like on ancestry you'll see all the time that you are um uh sharing sharing photos and copying you know just oh i'll take that for my my profile of so and so um and that's a no no on wiki tree so what i do when i see a cool photo on ancestry is i send them a message and explain you know all i work on wiki tree here's the profile this person may i have your permission to your photo and then they very often say yes uh and then what i would put here it um shared with permission of ancestry user joe smith do you ever ask them what their how they obtained it um sometimes yes yeah because you do you do sort of you know i mean you're taking their they may have copied it from someone else yeah yeah but i think on an ancestry it does say who the original share was oh okay yeah although it's not always the person that actually has the photo i know from experience myself so we do have to be you know if you're not sure you're safe or not to put things up i've i've basically put things up that i know i have scanned myself or i have the photograph that i've taken myself or that i know from the person that's given it to me that they have it yeah don't you wish everybody in the last well how long have we had almost 200 years that we've had photography that everybody put names on the back yes yes you got piles of photographs and you don't know who they are okay so i've um put in location and dates and um okay this is a photograph so i can leave that as photo and then upload wow lovely that's a lovely photo yeah thank you and then um so what i i don't have is my aunt um she doesn't have a profile in wiki tree but if she did i could just add her wiki tree id here so that i don't have to upload to her profile as well it will be linked to them both so now when i go back to his profile there it is oh yes so and there's also a way if you want to um if you recall with my um aunt my great-grandmother's um her profile i had inserted the photos within the biography and that can be a nice way to do it it's very easy like if i go to this photo and yes down here there are these helpful hints so it says to use this image inside the text of a profile you just copy exactly copy this text and put it inside the bio and when you save the photo will be oh that's really helpful yeah so i have a question yes i have a family biography you know um genealogy and i want to list that as a source and then reference it in the people that i'm adding okay uh well i think i now i remember now that you uh you mentioned this in the in your reply to the g2g post i think what you'd have to do is construct a a citation uh the way you would you know in any sort of research paper um with you know title author um public so what i had in mine was more like um i've seen where people set up a separate reference page and they they actually copied the text out this was copyrighted in 1908 so it's expired and i wanted to take more information that's in the front uh of it that explains about the family yeah um the board and family before in in addition to the reference so it was um i know people that put up pages of information that then gets referenced through multiple profiles a free space page probably i wouldn't say yeah you can create you don't have not all pages on wiki tree have to be um profiles of a person you can create a page that's what what we call a free space page which is um well projects use free space pages but um also um you can create your own free space uh free space yes that's what i was wondering about yeah yeah um so for for well first of all um if you go to your watch list um that will show you all your profile all the the profiles that you're managing you're a profile manager of but on this other tab here are my free space pages i don't have that many but um you can see that recently i created this one um to to sort of lay out um a conundrum that i have on one of my lines your project question yes yes that's right um so um these are really flexible um templates that you can you can easily create the way to do it is to go under the add menu and then you would add a new thing create a page for anything um um and it it's sort of you can look through this list of four things um number two would be the way you would relate um you know very often when we're adding profiles we know the relationship it's it's already you know oh this is um a pro an existing profile's sister mother brother and but if you want to add someone who's completely unrelated to the tree you would do it oh so like your fan club yes yeah friends friends associates and neighbors yes yeah those people that appear in the census records that are not relative that servants or uh just businesses to marriages and things like that yes this could be someone you think might be related but you can't prove it yeah could play yeah so you can't connect it to the family yet but you could create the person and you'd you'd actually be yeah yes and and over here we have examples of you if you're curious you can look at these examples um as you can see it's a wide range of interests model ships uh I know people have done them for pets and family recipes and you know as Hilary said one one place studies one name studies projects um but what you would probably want is um a free space profile that's uh the most flexible um and you would go here oh that I'm sorry that was in the drop down menu yes under under my tree no add add add new thing yeah add new thing yeah it's uh it's it's I'm not going to go through it but it's very it's very easy okay and then if I wanted to see if I could find a um free space that somebody else has done where they're taking a reference book and using that as something that they're connecting to um I guess I just need to browse and find one right um is this a free space page that you know exists um so I was sort of mentored for a little bit by um Randy Beebe and he had created one for one of our mutual ancestors um Martin Beebe who Martin Beebe yeah well uh let's try in the Revolutionary War um do you know his do you think I could well maybe I could find his profile and get to the is it yeah maybe because I don't know his number it's uh two E's on the end okay all right let's see what we've got um and what is his date of birth approximate uh just roughly if you see major or um major Martin Beebe major Martin Beebe military officer so control f for fine just and put major let me go to mine and see if I can find him oh not there I think no no mate it's not showing up was uh uh that's why I would just give me I've sorted by birth year so if you knew approximately when he was yeah I'm looking for him through my tree in my well here is a Martin Beebe senior managed by Randy Beebe yeah yeah um so he was born 1738 um 17 earlier one yeah I wonder if it's uh 1738 oh there he is first one William William Martin Beebe no you it was the one right below that there we go yeah yeah major Martin Beebe yeah third time's the charm um okay so I'm looking so this is Beebe 1313 and so we're looking for this free space page yeah I thought that he had shown me this is secondary oh monograph of descendants of family of Beebe he just posted yeah there yeah biographies secondary source Clarence Beebe is his book oh okay aha there we go okay so that would give me something to follow in terms of creating this yes and notice how he oh sorry Hilary I just wanted to point out you can you can tag like in this case and I did this with my Mcmurray family mystery page I tagged the surname I tagged the location you know it can help other people find it yeah okay yeah do you just want to see how um how how he links to this page I was just thinking how on that pro on that profile he linked to the free space yes please sure yeah um no so once you create it and then you want to link it to multiple um do you do you mean go into Hilary do you mean go into go into the edit and just show how they how you can create the the link in the profile let's see oh goodness it'll be it's a secondary source his sourcing looks so nice and I think how will I ever learn how to do all that there we go it's it's a lovely profile yeah yeah so you can see that that this is how you uh this is how you hyperlink to a profile so if you do the double square brackets with a wiki tree id and then the vertical line and then the name it's going to show up just as a hyperlink that says clouds bb yeah or you can just copy what if you go to a profile there's a bit at the top that says link and you can just copy and paste that it'll paste that into the profile for you so you don't have to do all the typing but it's useful to know both mm-hmm and then similarly down here this is a hyperlink again the double square brackets and it's so it's space because it's a free space page and then the title of the free space page the the vertical line and then afterwards is how it's going to come up as the hyperlink and then what's the reference name equal monograph that's the citation yeah the last bit the bit after the bit the bit after the line is is what what shows in the text and you can put whatever you like in there you can you could just put one word in there and if you clicked on that one word it would take you to the page you don't have to it doesn't have to be exactly the same as as the the name of the page the important bit is the first bit of the of that within that square brackets and the bit after the i'm trying to think what it's called that that that line is is the um the bit after that is what is just what shows in that that on the on the actual profile and it won't it but it won't show the space and all that because it because of how you've got it linked there right but you were asking about this right shelly yes yeah so this this is just the citation this is standard for any inline citation where you would have ref and then at the end you would have ref but with this backward slash and oh now so the way this has been created um is for a repeating citation so that you don't have to put in all of the gobbledygook every time you just put in ref equals monograph that's the way this has been set up um if you have a size that you continually cite a source that you continually cite yeah and that that was what i was thinking because there's a lot of bbs in here this book i want to put one reference and then just keep cross referencing right right so this is this is the way you would want to do that ref name equals whatever you want to call it monograph or you know whatever makes sense to you it doesn't have okay and when you repeat it you just take the first bit the ref name equals monograph or whatever you put in there and then you just put a a uh was it a forward slash or a backslash i kind of remember which i'm seeing if i can find yeah it should be somewhere where he repeats it yeah exactly so well since i've used a repeat thing so yes well i'm not sure but yeah but you can you just you just so you don't have to put the whole of the rest of the reference stuff in it's just that first name with a oh i'm trying to find it see if i can find a one of my profiles that's got it on yeah healer i've made it so you can screen share yeah yeah let's see if i can find one that i've done it on trying to think who i might have put it on thank you that was that what helps me understand how i get to creating those free spaces and what are my options are yeah this is going to help me meet that 2023 challenge oh are you doing the 15 for 15 yes yes great good well as a matter of fact you can create a free space page to track your pride progress if somebody commented about taking that list and putting it in notes and that's what i did that's where my checklist is yep yep it's a good good way to do it too i'm trying to find the page that actually says about repeat um repeating citations but i can't find it now yeah i know i've used it before but i can't it was a while ago um actually hmm you know what here's what i could show uh i'll go back here merton bb so i created um uh wiki tree cheat sheets there we go wiki tree citation cheat sheet um and i learned when you are citing the same sources repeatedly okay so so i'm okay citing the 1901 census over and over so then the first time i would do this whole thing and then the second time they're all times thereafter i would so it's the backslash yes yeah yeah last name equals whatever it is in quotes backslash yeah nice cheat sheet yeah it's open at all times on my computer i used to have things set up but now i use that i use because i use um a lot of the time i'm just updating things with using sorcerer i very rarely use a lot of the things i used to have yes yes so well we're coming up on an hour do we have um any last burning questions Bernita we didn't get a chance to say hello welcome thank you um well what i'm gonna do i'm gonna put my user id in the chat um this is how you can find me and if you have questions feel free to send me a put a comment on my page my profile page or send me a personal private message you have her however you like and those of you who are interested in england um you can find the project and the projects on the on from the from the drop down there um and you can easily contact me through the project anyway because i'm on uh because i'm on the main page for the projects for the england project so if you look at on there i understand a lot of my ancestors came from england but i i can't find my original immigrant we keep going back generation generation and we're still here in the colonies i'll tell you a quick funny story at the end you know that we're now toward the end i was doing some i was doing some physical genealogy research in texas and i i knew the town where my uh where my great grandfather was was born and uh my grandfather had 14 brothers and sisters and my great and his father had about that many and um and we have a picture of them that uh and they were all boys except one girl there was about 12 boys and one girl and they they really do like look like outlaws and so we went i went to this little town where they were from and i went to the post office and asked the the post it was a woman who was the postmistress there and and i was in my 30s and i thought she was old so i so she was probably in her 60s but anyway i asked her i said are there any charaters that still live in this area and she said well the old home place burned several years ago but i think one of those brother's wives still lives in the county seat which is about 10 miles away so i drove over there and uh most texas towns the county courthouses in the center of the square and then the the downtown stores are built around that square and there was a drugstore there and i went in and again who i thought was an older lady and i said can you tell me do any charaters still live in this part of the area she said oh honey you don't want to be related to them and i and i said well it's a bit late for that so you shouldn't own that ownership attraction well that's one way to do genealogy just you know like on that's boots on the ground genealogy i hope to do some of that this year i'm doing several location books to learn more about locations and i'm going to go visit them wonderful yeah that's great before we break could i just put something in about the Tudor ancestry yes of course Tudor is obviously a welsh name a lot of welsh names are actually patronymics which means that there is no common descent from a meta ancestor it's just people who had that particular name as a first name who passed it down their line so an awful lot of tutors in wales that i've come across but very few of them i imagine were related in any genealogical sense to henry the seventh but a lot of them claimed it yes it's why we've got such in wales we've got so many common surnames because they were very popular first names of the williams and jones and all those sort of things were slight changes from the first names weren't they jenith here's my yorkie waving at you adorable well this has been a really interesting hour i i i love these zoom sessions because they're always different um you know just depending on what people are curious about so um thank you for coming and um thank you to hillary we were um for for teaming up with me today and we hope that you'll all come back next month yeah thank you thank you i'm gonna dig in and have a lot of questions next month okay all right wonderful thanks bye bye thank you bye thank you bye bye bye bye bye by benita can't see a bunch of that bye all right just the two of us yeah and i just just stayed the chat um these these sunday sessions are always so much more relaxed than thursday thursdays i just like you know it's just like so many people and um it does seem to make more sense for me to be around for the sunday one because we seem to have got a few people that were more interested in this either they're either in the states wanting to obviously think they could might link to over here which is i thought was might use quite useful because i think one o'clock in the morning is a bit too much for for most bit for unless you're very very keen yes i mean that's that's why aowyn and i decided that we really needed to offer a second session that was um hospitable for people across the public so yeah yeah yeah i know i was trying to encourage somebody that i've been mentoring to come to one of these when you first started doing them but i don't think um it probably doesn't suit them for whatever reason so yeah yeah so anyway um we'll see what see what next next month holds right exactly so yeah the first whatever that first sunday in uh february is yeah yeah see okay yeah i'll see you then if not before bye