 Hello, and welcome to another of what is becoming a series of discussions about the Palestinians' efforts to achieve their full legal, political, and human rights under international law from the Israeli government. My name is Bob Scheibel. I am the chair of Main Voices for Palestinian Rights, an organization which is dedicated to trying to educate the public and our leaders about what is happening in Israel and Palestine in order to bring about a just peace there. We have a website that you can find, Main Voices for Palestinian Rights. We also have a Facebook page, and we urge you to go like that page and to keep up with current events and analyses on that page. You can also find resources on our website. Now today, let me briefly introduce our panel, and then I'll ask them each to tell you a little bit about how it is that they happen to know what they know about this conflict. To my immediate right is Amos Libby. Amos is an adjunct faculty of the arts at both Bates and Bowdoin colleges. He's an excellent musician, and he speaks fluent Arabic. Next to Amos is Kathy Kenitz, and Kathy is an attorney of elder law and an activist for Palestinian Rights. Next to Kathy is Sally Bowdoin Scheibel, is a mental health counselor and a Buddhist activist. So let me start by asking each of you in turn just how it is that you know what you know about this issue. Okay, me first, I'm assuming you're looking at it. I'm looking at you, yes. I started traveling to the West Bank specifically in 2014 to work as a volunteer educator. I was motivated to go there by my desire to experience the reality of Palestinian living under occupation firsthand so that I could talk about it from the position of experience here as well as to be of service. So I've gone back, I've been back there three times since then for extended periods to continue working as a volunteer. I mean most of the time you were in Hebron, is that right, or Hebron? Yes, yes specifically in this largest city in the West Bank. I lived in a village, well continue to when I'm there in a place called Beik Umar which is about 15 kilometers north of the city. So my trips include a certain amount of activism, I'm not affiliated with any particular organization that's completely independent but I'm primarily there to be of service and to tell the truth about the situation then when I come back home. Can I believe you both teach music, you teach music there in some English? I haven't taught music there, I've been teaching English specifically but music is a big part of what I do while I'm there. Okay. Kathy how do you know anything about this? My story is similar to Amos's although I first became sort of entrenched in learning about the issues maybe ten years ago when it occurred to me one day that this situation, we hear the Israeli side all the time as Americans and I never heard the Palestinian side except that there are terrorists and horrible people. And it just sort of occurred to me one day that as an attorney I know there's always two sides of the story and it occurred to me one day that we are not hearing the other side and I started digging and delving and the more I read from many many sources including from Israeli historians that we've really been kind of brainwashed in this country about what's going on in Palestine and I've always been a person who looks out for the underdog. I used to think that Israel was the underdog, I don't anymore. And so my passion has become speaking out on behalf of Palestinians because they're so misrepresented in this country. So I was first there on a tour with a church group in 2014 I believe or 13 I can't remember and that was just to get my feet wet. It was just a ten day tour and I decided from then that I wanted to go back to do something of use. So I found a job, a temporary job, doing legal research for an NGO located in Hebron. I went the following year and spent a month working there and living in Bethlehem. And again, you know, coming back even more convicted in the fact and my passion that we need to educate people here and particularly our politicians. Sally, what about you? My interest began in the early 2000s when my daughter was an undergraduate student at Suffolk University and was studying international government. And she came home one weekend and was telling us about the situation in Israel-Palestine and it said, we have not been hearing the whole story. So we went, you and I went to the library, the local library at USM on that next Saturday and we did research. And as we did the research, much like what Kathy was saying, we were astounded at what we were discovering and that was that we were not being told the story. So we have been several times now, four times. The first time was when our daughter was doing an internship in the region. The second time was with the Interfaith Peace Builder Delegation out of Washington, D.C. The next time was with a good friend of ours, a Palestinian man who was a teacher and he had invited us to come. And then the last time was as Kathy and Amos are describing an opportunity to be of service. So we went with the Olive Picking Harvest with the YAWCA and Joint Advocacy Initiative. Okay, thank you. Amos, would you sort of set the stage for us? We know that there's a, maybe some people don't even know it, that there's a real conflict right now. I don't really call it a conflict. There is a shooting of innocent people. Israel snipers are shooting at Gazans along the border. Would you tell us how that all got started? Sure, I'll do my best anyway with the time that we have. And Gazan isn't really a word that I typically use. They're all Palestinians. Gaza is inseparable from the rest of Palestine. So in this particular incarnation of Israeli violence against the blockaded population of Gaza, we're talking about a protest movement that started on the 30th of March, that's referred to as the Great March of Return or the Great Return March. And Arabic translates roughly to about that. Which is started as a grassroots protest movement by individual activists and individual activist groups, but that has since been co-opted by political organizations within Gaza that seeks to express the desire for the majority of the population of Gaza, which are descendants of refugees that were expelled through the ethnic cleansing of the founding of the State of Israel in 1948. It's the return march, because they were forced out of their homes in southern Israel. Yes, exactly. So these protest movements that we're seeing happening now that started at the end of March coincided with Land Day, which, again, we don't have time to get into all of the history here. But this particular protest movement has been met with extremely violent responses by the Israeli army. Specifically, as you mentioned, snipers, also artillery and other weapons being used against largely completely unarmed protesters that are expressing a desire to return to the homes that they were expelled from and that their ancestors were expelled from. So it's being framed as if there are tens of thousands of demonstrators near what's being referred to as a border. There is no border between Gaza and Israel, because only states have borders. There's a fence, and that's it. So what's been being presented is that there's thousands of Palestinians that are threatening to overrun the border and somehow threaten the safety of Israelis in the State of Israel when, realistically, not a single Israeli soldier or a civilian has been injured during these protests. And it's an expression of a desire to exercise their right to be treated as any other refugee is in the world. So there hasn't been an attempt. If there was an attempt for tens of thousands of Palestinians to destroy the fence between Gaza and territorial Israel, they could do that in seconds. They could overrun the fence if they wanted to. What this is, is an expression, again, of a desire to return home. It's a largely symbolic expression, and an effort to call the world's attention to the fact that they are being kept from their original homes and they're being locked up inside what has been called, correctly, I think, an open-air prison. And I think right now, like the latest figure I saw, some 50 Palestinians have been shot dead. It's around 50. It's impossible for us to know exactly the numbers. Around 50,000 have been injured both with live ammunition and other munitions that are used by the Israeli army against protesters all over occupied Palestine. In this case, it's important to remember that this isn't something that poses an actual threat, but that Israel doesn't know how to respond to nonviolent protests other than through violence. They know how to fight wars against people with deadly weapons, but they don't know how to manage this, and so they've managed the same way that they always do, which is through violence. And it's been disastrous. One like question, whether or not they want to know how to do it nonviolently. Karen, go ahead. I was going to add that I don't think they want to know, and they've used the term mowing the lawn, and they, since the disengagement of Israel from Gaza in 2005, which was touted as this wonderful thing, they're finally freeing up Gaza. Well, as soon as Hamas was democratically elected, they erected the fence, they basically created a siege. And you know, it's worth pointing out that Jimmy Carter himself in the Carter Center went over to the West Bank to oversee that election in 2006, an election that George Bush had demanded that there be. And then when Hamas won the most of the seats to the council, the legislative council, then of course we come in and say, well, no, and I think Israel went right in and arrested quite a few of the Hamas leaders who had been elected to that council. So I just wanted to give a little background on that, so go ahead. So I just wanted to point out that the mowing the lawn, which is a term that has been widely used in Israel, means going in with their industrialized military and indiscriminately devastating the place. So there's been three so far, up until now, what's going on. In 2008, Operation Cast Lead, I love the euphemisms that they use to make it sound very heroic. About 1,400 people were killed, many, many thousands more maimed, many buildings destroyed, and infrastructure. 2012, Pillar of Defense, over 1,200 people killed. Again, devastation of infrastructure, many, many people injured. 2014, Protective Edge, over 2,100 people killed. And in all of these incursions, you can't even call them conflicts, you can't call them wars, it's Goliath against David, I'm sorry. An industrialized military, the biggest one in the Middle East, really one of the biggest militaries in the world, up against a bunch of unarmed people. And with the population, is it two thirds of the people in Gaza, our children? I read recently, I think, 58% are under age 18. If I could add something before we move on. When we were discussing elections, I think it's really important not to talk about a political process in occupied Palestine as if it's something that's normal, or that it's functioning as if a political process functions in any other part of the world. There is no political process that's allowed in the West Bank and in Gaza in any normal sense of the word. The closest that you can get to it as a metaphor is if prisoners in a jail are allowed to elect a council that decides what you can eat for lunch on Fridays, but they're not allowed to have any determination over their destiny. So when we talk about elections in occupied Palestine, I think it's very important that we not normalize it and act like it was functioning like it does in any other part of the world. Until there's a state, there is no political process. Only people that have a state can have a democracy and until that's the case, it doesn't exist. Well, one of the things that was important about that election though is that Hamas is not just unifold and there's a more militaristic aspect to it group and then there's a more diplomatic and based upon what I read the diplomatic side had been saying for a while let us try the electoral process. Let's see if we can get elected and then once we'll do that then we can have some kind of representation for the Palestinian people and then we will deal with Israel in negotiations. But once that happened, of course, Israel and our government just completely went in and arrested the people which told the militants of Gaza to give them room to say, we told you so. They're not going to pay any attention to any elections. They won't do it. So it just further makes us understand what you were saying, the sham of thinking that you're having no democratic process at all. Sally, you are a mental health counselor and Buddhist activist. So what can you tell us about your perceptions of what's happening to children in Gaza? Well, as soon as you say that, my heart just thinks because the children are on a daily basis traumatized, significantly traumatized. And trauma doesn't just occur and go away. The effects of trauma, psychological trauma are lifelong and there is not adequate treatment. Their funding has been removed to provide appropriate needed care and the truth is too that only when there is safety can there be healing and the truth is that there has not been safety. There is no safety there. There is no sense of future, of hope, of perceived hope. So these children are living in this perpetual traumatic environment. They're witnessing things that no one should ever witness. And so there's an increase in traumatic responses or behaviors, nightmares, bedwetting, anger, isolation, numbing out and it goes on and on. The fear is profound. I think I read somewhere that it was as of 2012 and I just didn't have time to get more recent data but I'm sure things have only gotten worse since 2012 but at that time 10%, according to World Health Organization 10% of Palestinian children under age five were suffering from stunted growth due to malnutrition and 20%, that's one in five children were suffering from PTSD. 20%, that was in 2012. I would imagine that number is probably higher. Just to be really clear is post-traumatic stress disorder. And it's just that it's a chronic condition. It's extended. It affects development. Healthy, normal lifespan development. So these children are their opportunity, their likelihood of growing into healthy functioning adults is also compromised. And isn't our mental health professionals pretty clear on the fact that the more desperate people feel the more hopeless they feel the less rational they may become the more they are likely to act out. Yes, that's true. And I think again, depending on the particular individual it may manifest in different ways. So you're going to have some people that are going to perhaps express anger and frustration more externally then you're going to have other people who are going to turn it towards themselves. There will be increased domestic difficulties. It's you know, I work with trauma in this country with adults who have been traumatized as children. We're talking about a culture a whole society that has been harmed. And again, I just want to emphasize that unless there is safety healing cannot happen in any significant way. It's a matter of putting a bandaid on and hoping that things can be stopped a little bit. Let me say that people watching this show right now will see a number of photographs. And these photographs are coming from the Middle East Children's Alliance MECA. They are trying to do work in Gaza and in other refugee camps in the area to help the children. And one of the programs they have is a water project because there's so little Kathy, I think you know something about that, right? Why aren't you talking about the water situation? A report in Haaretz which is a major Israeli newspaper just reported in January that currently 97% of the water in Gaza is not drinkable. It's contaminated by sewer and salt. And let me say that water is contaminated because of Israeli attacks and they deliberately attack their water treatment system. The infrastructure is destroyed. Every time there's been one of these onslaughts the infrastructure has been destroyed. So they try to build desalinization plants, they get destroyed. And so that's the water. The UN did a report in 2012 I believe saying that by 2020 Gaza would not be livable. And so one other thing I wanted to address is the food situation. The malnutrition. That's the result of the fact that nothing gets into Gaza without Israeli's control. They absolutely with iron control control the borders. And another little euphemism that they've used is that they put Gaza on a diet. And what that means is that they calculated per capita how many calories were needed to keep someone just above the malnutrition level. And we know that because of the leaked internal document of the military which someone got a hold of. Right. So and the other thing is farming. During the 2008 onslaught over 6,000 acres of farmland destroyed. All along the border of Gaza between Gaza and Israel one to three kilometers are a buffer zone. This used to be fertile farming land which is now inaccessible to the farmers who own the land. Let me say that some people think that well these three people they're just who are they and they're just obviously they're on the Palestinian side they're sort of radical I suppose. So I want to just list humanizations in the planet and in this country who are saying that what Israel is doing is not right and particularly right now. Human Rights Watch. Amnesty International. Chief representative was just deported. Oh that's right. Chief representative of Human Rights Watch. International Red Cross the Council of Foreign Ministers of EU and then I want to read you a list of churches and church groups that just recently roundly condemned what Israel is doing at this present time. The Alliance of Baptists, the American Friends Service Committee, the Christian Church or the Disciples of Christ, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Friends Committee on National Legislation, Mary Novel Offices for Global Concerns, Mennonite Central Committee Global Ministries of the Christian Church Disciples of Christ and United Church of Christ. The National Council of Churches, Pax Christi International, Pax Christi USA, those of course Catholic organizations, Presbyterian Church, USA, Reformed Church in America, the United Methodist Church, General Board of Church and Society, the United Church of Christ. It is not just a few outliers who are saying that what's going on in Israel right now is wrong. The vast majority of world organizations who pay attention to this kind of thing, including groups inside Israel like Beth Selam, like the rabbis for Human Justice, Human Rights in Israel and that same organization in the U.S. have been roundly critical of Israel. I'd like to just mention too that in our travels we have become friends with some Israeli Jews who are doing what they can do and are feeling incredibly despairing about what their government is doing to the Palestinian people. One of the individuals talks about how she was amazed when she was talking with people here in this country at how little there was of communication between the human rights activist community in Israel, what we would call Israel proper, and what's going on here in this country with human rights organizations such as Jewish Voice for Peace and other organizations. I just think at the same time it's important not to whitewash the reality in Israel which is the majority of the population is fine with the occupation. There is a resistance to it for sure but that there's a large majority of people that are not part of a resistance to it. And I would say about that too that there are people that just kind of shut down and become violent and then there are these people who are trying to do the right thing. So I think remembering that there are individual personalities and such. And the reason they feel that despair you were talking about is that they do feel themselves increasingly isolated in that group. In fact one of them told us that it had gotten so in Israel that you found yourself almost afraid to be talking out too much. You're afraid somebody, even a neighbor, somebody over the phone might be recording you and then if that information were to get to some of the hard right people then you start getting threatening phone calls, this kind of thing. So it's a very, very dire situation. A lot of the more liberal and younger Israelis are actually leaving the country and ironically going to places like Berlin. Well I met a young Jewish man who comes to our sangha, Buddhist sangha in Westbrook and he told me recently that he did not know, he did not know personally a single young Jew who was still supporting Israel. I'm sure there are some but he doesn't know, he doesn't know of any. So Israel is losing that battle for hearts and minds. Unfortunately they continue to have an enormous amount of control over governments. Can I add one thing and I think it's so important and it's one of the reasons that I'm so passionate about this issue. It's because we in the United States support Israel without any questions. We give them more military, more aid than any other country over five billion dollars a year and it's growing and without that support they couldn't be continuing the occupation, the siege and all of the horrible things that are happening there. They would have to reckon with the fact that they need to integrate this population that they've disenfranchised. So I feel like it's my duty as a U.S. citizen to try to change the narrative and start educating our politicians who continue allowing this huge amount of money to flow to Israel without any questions asked. Well I want to thank all three of you for coming out today and talking with us about this and if you have questions please go to MVPR's website. You can get a phone number, you can get an e-mail address, you can get on to our e-list and find out how to be part of protest and Palestinian support rallies. That kind of thing and thank you for joining us today.