 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa. We have a guest set for a first major conversation this morning quite a controversial one But I we believe they would be justice to this this particular issue well the Nigerian opposition parties under the ages of a coalition of United political parties have raised the alarm over What their ledger moves to use secret court secret court in court to stop the use of the bimodal voter accreditation system be vast machine in the 2023 general elections the coalition also claimed that it has uncovered a Massive voter registration fraud and a plot to sack the chairman of the independent National Electrical Commission if he fails to stop the use of be vast All right a statement made available on Wednesday the spokesman for the coalition and lawyer Ikenga Imo O'Gochinge While addressing the press conference said the vigilance team of the CUPP Following what it calls credible intelligence Discovered the suit at the very federal high court where it was filed on August 24 this year interesting To say to him user word discovered well the lawyer in this particular suit whose stamp and seal was used is saying that He knows nothing about this case and that one of his Lawyers use his stamp and seal without his knowledge. Well, the coalition also Displayed extracts of a national voter registration Register which the claim were a part of at least 10 million fake registrations done by one of the political parties But it did not disclose the name of the political party according to the coalition The names were sourced from both within and outside Nigeria including some African countries such as Ghana, Cameroon, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Togo, Guinea, Gambia and countries outside Africa like Jamaica, Brazil and New Zealand. The opposition parties say they have evidence of several registrations which were captured from passport photographs and other photos or yesterday I like released a statement in Response to this saying that it was still going through the processes of cleaning up the voter's registrar now It's a truly a grand plan to reignit your as forthcoming general elections In the favor of the all-progressive Congress political analyst Mark Adebayo joins us from Abuja Glad to have you on the program this morning, Mark Also, we have Ambrose Bokeh who's also a public affairs analyst joining us from the peaceful and beautiful city of Edugu gentlemen. Thank you very much for your time All right, do you going by what the CUPP has put out? I'll start with you Mark Adebayo Do you believe that all this information and this evidence that Has been put out do you believe it consists of substitutes constitutes Enough evidence to prove that there's a grand plan to rig the elections in favor of the all-progressive Congress Well, thank you so much. You see even a little indiscretion in the photos register is more than enough to raise alarm Like the aphorism goes Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. I will not extend that also To to democracy now, especially in the Africa context, you know, we are elections Are desperately manipulated by parts that be to ensure a preferred outcome It is essential. It is very important for all political stakeholders So to be very vigilant in these times and climbs. It's extremely important And you know that I neck has not come out in the response the response of I neck to The CUPP press conference. Yeah, Nick has not said I've not thrown it out. I'll try to they said in that particular you know Location in Nemo states that was used as an example of where the massive for photo register fraud As the perpetrator they said you have clean up out over three thousand names there many that Mean that something something was going wrong badly there, but that the commission is you know It is it's an ongoing process is clean up the register. It has continued to clean it off So when that was what was discovered by the CBP it be hoops On CBP as an organization of the Armagam of opposition political parties to go public with that for For the commission to make sure that those job very well I'm for the public to know that that's why I'm the mountain and for the relevant security agencies to be On their feet to make sure that they investigate this matter and bring it out and make sure that the political perpetrators Punished according to the law and if a lawyer says my seal has been used without my knowledge You know, you take responsibility nobody can just take your seal and go and use them use it to make that kind of a suit That is extremely Crucial to the determine to the conduct of the 2020 General elections, so you said somebody took your your stamp and seal and went to To sue to to to to register in suit without your Your knowledge. Okay. Yeah, Makadeva. Let's bring in Ambrose Igbo. Okay. That's what Ambrose. What's your take? I'll ask you the same question. Do you believe that we have a preponderance of evidence as put out by? Ikega Imo Ongochinere to assume or to conclude that this Means there is a plan a grandeur is the plan to rig the elections in favor of the APC next year Hello, yes, I'm Bruce. Are you there? I'm Bruce. Okay. Can you hear me, please? Okay, I hear you now. What did you say? Okay? I'm saying do you believe that the evidence put out by Ikega Ongochinere is enough to Conclude that I neck will rig the elections next year in favor of the APC well in Nigeria political when it comes to electionary campaign and You cannot rule out anything. Actually, it's a contest of rigging and not rigging and votes buying by all political parties involved, but the 23rd election That's kind of paradigm shift in terms of awareness And the way Nigerians are, you know looking at the election as a way of liberating them from the economic hardships They are countering. So the passion the will the desire And the you know concerted efforts to ensure that 23rd election is not like any other election It's in the offing. So people are not trying with it because they know that they are future And their destiny is live with that 23rd election. So for many Nigerians it is make or ma hence it is Unusual, you know interest in the 23rd election having said that Through the introduction, I want you to introduce some technologies into our electionary campaign before then it has always been manual And a lot of manipulation that is why we hear a lot of ballot snatching Comprinting people going to write different resource sheets and the rest and by what John attendee what we tried to do was The technology was not awesome There was to the issue of what you call incident form that if a machine refuses to work Then you use incident form But that was also abused and used for rigging because in many places they would just conclude that it didn't work and That's I happen to speak to a lot of youth corpus in 2015 who said that even the power Which is another issue we should look at the beaver's the power the electricity the energy to power the The technology on most cases were not there There was a case of a local government chairman When he refused to work in the polling center asked them to come to his house and he used the generator to power the devices He happened in so many places. So this also cost for concern about the beavers Now the beavers are taking it a much higher Which means that Everything about the election From the capturing to the sourcing of the names to an actual voting is going to be done under the technology platform so that If it fails for example, they'll use your face Your facial capture to be able to match their database That's so a lot of political parties who depended On reading becoming afraid of becoming uncomfortable with the beavers Hence I would not be surprised at all that there are you know, nicodemons efforts to you know Try to remove it from the Electoral process Nogen has to resist it. We thank God for the c up people that have come to You know, bring this to the fore Nogen has to resist it and ensure that such nocturnal Uh, you know escapades The tool was truncating a transparent election does not have the light of day. Uh, then when you talk of the INEC, I am surprised That in a very particular polling units a word a polling people could manipulate from 4600 to for more than 40 something thousand Within one election cycle and I did not raise a lamp even at that When I net discover 3000 You know On the registered people that were not valid. What did I net do? Just cleaned up went to sleep. Who are those responsible for such action? From to have 3000 in a single polling unit. Who are those responsible for that? Who are those? Brought to book as anybody been Prosecuted for that action I mean, let's have Mike Adebayo now I'm okay Let's bring in Mike. Uh, Mike Adebayo into the conversation Mike Adebayo, can you hear us? I'm hearing you loud. I'm clear. All right then. I like to share your thoughts on the response of you know INEC on the situation and you know the issues that were raised by the CUPP For instance, you see on corresponding data pictures and gender There's not much and all of that and with the you know the explanation that INEC has actually made I'd like to share your thoughts on this. Do you think that you know, there's any element of truth in it? Absolutely, I mean She is a train lawyer Uh, he knows what you can do within the limits of the law So you wouldn't go public with fake stories and this and of course, you know that INEC has not Denied any of these allegations. What they have said is that they are There's an ongoing process to clean up the electoral register So they have not done in that particular area. They said they have cleaned up about 3132 names Which means there's a lot there's a lot for them to do there So for the mere fact that we have INEC saying that look that place that you're talking about that location You're talking about that police, you know, you're talking about that world you're talking about We have already discovered over 3,000 Victitious names and we are cleaning them out. The question is how do those names get into the register? That's what the fact we are using we are using technology to register. I I have gone to to Renew my pvc. I was captured You know directly I didn't go there with my passport or anything I was caught directly my data everything was entered into the technology outcome that we are now seeing faces of people with What you call passport photographs outcome we are seeing Name from Germany from Jamaica from Sambia from Ghana from Cameroon from Sierra Leone How come we are seeing male faces and Female gender written under them. How come we are seeing all those all those there? So which means that there's a lot to be done before the elections If you you are already discovered over three thousand in one word it shows that And that that's just in one word. That's just in one state. That's just in one One pulley unit area. And then what about The 77 before local governments we have in this country. What about over 8,000? Over 8,000 pulley units you have you have what do you know has gone wrong there? So that is why You see people needs to be commended for coming out with this All Nigerians know that the last seven and a half years have not been easy in this country that the way this country has been Nigerians are tired and Nigerians are poorer Makadebayo, sorry Sir Praveen to come in and ask you a follow-up question In your face, in a show, yeah It seems you know people are maybe Getting ahead of themselves as far as this whole situation is concerned. I want to ask you and What's the possibility of Ikenga Ogochinere Being able to identify the nationalities of these names that um that he's talking about You know, because you know, I I sensed a lot of uh Guesswork at play indeed. Nobody is saying that we'll have a perfect system But for god's sake, how are you able to know that someone is Jamaican or Zimbabwe? Can you can you maybe guess how Ogochinere was able to get the nationalities of these people he's talking about? No, I cannot guess against the guesswork you are suggesting The issue is that it came that Ikenga Ogochinere is a trained lawyer And he knows what you can do with the limits of the law. There is no guesswork there No, no, I'm saying you mark. I can't I can't sit down here and know where you're from I see Makadebayo will I say you're from Lagos So I'm saying where where did where did Ogochinere meet these people to yeah, where did Ogochinere meet these people to get their nationalities from Then what what constitutes a Jamaican name? I assume that you're Nigerian And if you are Nigerian once somebody calls me Adebayo, you know, I'm Yoruba. You know, I'm from the southwest So if somebody say is uh, Ken Green or You know, you have you have names that excuse me Makadebayo I'm sure you know your namesake who is Adebayo the footballer who comes from togo What are we talking about sir? And he's I can't believe this. You know Adebayo who is your namesake Adebayo is some togo If I sit back and I say I see shea Adebayo playing for us now and he must be a Nigerian as you Adebayo originated from Oshun stage and you know what what passport does he carry? What passport does he carry? What's important is that in Yoruba the passport is there are people in this country who have multiple passports in this country So that is not an excuse. Adebayo knows is from Oshun state I'm asking you sir. I'm asking you said so He carries So how did Ogochinere meet these people to know where they are from? I mean Because even in law you can't as a lawyer you he should know that you can't just sit back and assume who is from where By just a name not engaging guesswork. This is not guesswork. Let let the people the relevant authorities come out and say Is it is not true? They cannot say that but they've come out. Okay. Okay. You hear names You know where they are from it doesn't take local science to know where you are from when you hear your name But that is not true. I just give you an example sir. I just give you an example My name my name my name can be found. Sorry, sir. My name can be found in multiple countries around the world So I'm I'm asking you is it possible for a lawyer as qualified as Ikenga Ogochinere To wake up and then say that he's seeing names on and then assume Where they are from which countries he are from And I'm saying that we have a lot of Inaki saying that people are taking you know are making points that are verifying or trying to understand I don't know. I don't know how much of technology You know the kind of experience you have in terms of technology. I don't know the knowledge you have in terms of technology But you see a picture you can you can actually search for people and look and I know where they are from Do you do you know sir? There are some names that that you can find in Zimbabwe that you see inside Let one of these people that have been sent came from Germany or from Jamaica come out and say they are from Nigeria In the in the locality we have people we are in Kechi. We have people we are Ogochinere Now you begin to see people names like green Cannot thing you begin to see people who are born in 19 00 people who are born in 1901 Are in the electoral register of Nigeria? Just a follow-up question to to I guess apologies mercy and I like this is lawyer. I'm Rosie. He's this lawyer For all this qualification. He's telling us that he has discovered A, B, C, D, E in the voter's register Ambrose. I like he's saying they have not even published the voter's register yet I like he's saying they have not even published the voter's register yet There is no but these are names of the fresh registrants from last year. I think June or July 2021 to 14 January 2022 they were published and they were for people to go see and then say, okay These are discrepancies and they'll take it through their ABIS ABIS system to clean it up Then from 15 January to the end of the last Continuous voter registration They are going to publish the names and then when people go and say, okay They make complaints and all that they will now finish everything then clean it up They have not even added this to the voter's register. So even lawyer says the voter's register has been compromised. What is he talking about? Well, first of all You are a journalist and as a journalist Forget the kind of journalism we are present to the cost So the bottle journalists when we sit down to receive a press release this from people They call journalists does what we call investigative journalism So the journalists I'm even ashamed that is a lawyer that brought me that you're supposed to be the journalist during their work I hear you are here. I'm getting what I don't know The first of all the journalists are supposed to investigate that there are what you call I have the news to investigate the state secretive as a covert operation So the journalists have the capacity people have the capacity to to investigate things and to preempt things from happening We don't need to wait for Inet to publish that is a lazy mass approach And that's what journalism has done to in Nigeria Where we sit down and wait for press releases We are supposed to dig into and find out what Inet is a public institution We don't need to wait for them to give us a Publish something before we investigate what they are doing So with whatever means and as a journalist you also have your means what they're supposed to call sources technology is also there to investigate these things If we were asking Ambrose part of part of not being Yes, part of part of part of being a good journalist Ambrose and part of not not being a feeling bottomed journalist like you want to see us be Is to not take everything everyone says and to question everything you hear I'm asking you a simple question If the lawyer says that the voter's register has been compromised But yeah, these names that he's talking about have not even been added to the voter's register I'm just asking you if that makes sense to you It is there in the voter's register It is there These names have not yet been added to the voter's register I think at this point in time we need to move away from this Ambrose For Okay But it's it's in the press release I speak to these guys every day. I ask them questions every day and it's in the press. It's even the press release I don't need I don't need to be the PR And ask you for your response I'm just saying the lawyer said the voter's register has been compromised and we say but where asks you a simple question If the lawyer says the voter's register has been compromised. Yeah, go on And I think that You know, I'm brosik. Okay. I'm brosik. Okay. Let's come back, you know to other issues So these are the issues and so we have a response I mean you have the c upp are coming up with a situation and you have aina kondia Unfortunately fastest aqua you cannot be here with us this morning because he has to attend to, you know, the other issues that consents the Electoral umpire very urgent Hopefully we're able to have him, you know to clarify this because she'll be part of the conversation But however in the response aina k is not, you know, really Said that this is what it is. They're only saying that well, we're going through a process So it's not like they've said that this didn't happen. No, like, oh, that's impossible So it's also possible that that could have happened that you have Names imputed and what have you but the big question that everyone is asking is how did you get into the system? Now, it brings me to the question that i'm asking because we have been very positive I know a lot of persons stakeholders governors differ including the president Everyone seemed to be excited with the electoral act that has been signed I mean they say with this one it's impossible to read the election Do you think that this is still a thing or this should still be upheld by Nigerians? And we should believe that you know with this new electoral act and the fact that you're going to have Introduction of this new technology would be impossible to read the election Should we still believe this statement, especially the president making it and all the quarters? First of all, there is no technology that is foolproof Every technology has little gaps for manipulation And we even remember what happened to WikiLeaks and how he was downloading documents secret documents from The most sophisticated governments in the world with the most powerful technologies He was able to hack into their system So we should know that it is no hundred percent But what we are saying that is a big departure from what we used to have And some of those things for example In this 2023 election if we go back what we have snatching of ballot buses will just be in vain Because you cannot longer because election is no longer manual where election results are transmitted from the polling unit straight to the INET database So what INET should be doing is that to have mailwares To prevent fusing to prevent hacking to house powerful You know systems in place to anti hacking systems in this way they can be able to you know manage it better Even in the last election of the one that brought him down a truck united states There was a lot of acquisition that it was uh, it was somebody it was act So if that can be done to america, why not? All right. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, so sorry, sir. Sorry, sir. We have Okay, we have we have to go we have to go Yes, yes, if a final one a final one to to ugem, that's very quickly Please mark at it very quickly and this court case that we're talking about it can go in the watching area Talked about a secret a secret court And are you is are you to you? Is there anything like a secret court known to you in nigerian legal system secret court? Secondly, yes, secondly, sir. Secondly, is there anything that stops any nigerian who feels Agreed by the use of beavers from going to court to seek to stop it And is there anything that also prevents people who are against such a move from also seeking to be joined in such a process? So the word your second question is uh, it's a no no for me and it's a no no for democracy It's a negative for democracy for anybody to seek to stop the beaver the use of beavers It shows that as a premeditated Plan to to rig the elections. Why would anybody not want to? Is a no no a nigerian that does that is a patriotic is This kind of practice and behavior is it very common in our judicial system? Is it possible? No, you know, he asked he asked he asked two questions So the second part is what I've answered that whether anything stopping a nigerian from who is supposed to use of beavers To go to court. That's what I'm saying. No. No, that person cannot Is not a preacher anybody that tries to do that I ask if if if there's any law that prevents an aggrieved nigerian from seeking redress if they feel and that's the morning If there's any law that stops people who are against that person from also seeking to be joined There's no law known to law known to the concern of nigeria that's suddenly nigerian from going ahead to To do anything but when you do doing this secretly, you know, that's what again I call it secret court that why doing this secretly without letting the public know, you know This is you know when people want to throw out their tenants without their knowledge They go to courts beyond the same of change judgment and then they just without the guys knowledge I don't come and throw him out of the house brandishing A court judgment it has happened separately in our political process And then coming to the issue of the lawyer that said What you should also think about is that the lawyer has not said that he didn't go to court He said somebody else used his stamp or seal to go to court So that is to tell you that the king knows what he's saying and when the irony came out to say that look That place is complaining about they have cleaned out three thousand one hundred thirty six names from the from that particular place That's to tell you that there is there is something to to to see about in that place It's not as if you think I just woke up one day and began to tabulate and bring Names and figures or myself even if it's only one that they have discovered Where it came guys complaining that something has happened You should let us appreciate the fact that you know, he has done a good job Not that to say that he's doing the guest work or something about it came guy You don't know him if you know him, you know that it's not somebody that is frightful also Or jobless to the extent that you just sit down and begin to to want to it's also a Stakeholder and you cannot blame him. He's contesting in this election. You cannot blame him for being very vigilant I'm bringing that thank you so much. He should be appreciated I don't come out to say that he lied they said Thank you very much that number. Well, the fact is that we don't have these names added to the voters register yet You cannot say that Please go and read the statement they've said it In that place, they said they have removed three thousand one and thirty two names No, those are registrants. In fact, the first phase of cleanup, they removed more than one million names So after we have claims and Uh, uh, uh, uh Challenges from people who grieve maybe or my name didn't come up When they finish to add all these to the final voters register that goes back to what is important to me This revelation this is for say we have everybody to sit here. Thank you will be more vigilant. I agree I agree Will be more. But we need to question everybody This is the most important Factor in this situation. Everybody will now be more vigilant and郵ans will be more interested Thank you gentlemen. Maka Deba, your Angbrosi Bokeh, thank you so much. You have accused us of film bono. It's all part of the passion you have for the country and you want to see the best happening for Nigeria. Tomorrow you will say I became like a PDP member. Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Hope to have you again soon. Alright. Merci. We have to move on. Quite interesting. What I said, we take a break now and when we return we will be looking at a second conversation. Please stay with us.