 Welcome back to Think Tech, I'm Jay Fidel. I'm so happy to be here. This is Global Connections. I'm going to talk about chat GBT and how it is going viral. How will it change the world with Rupmati Kandaka? Rupmati, welcome to the show, Rupmati. It's so nice to have you here. Aloha, Jay. Always my pleasure to be with you on this show. Today, we are really talking technical and talking about chat GBT, what's all the fuss about, isn't it? So let's go, Jay. Let's go. There's so much to talk about. We'll never finish on time, never, never, never. So how does this work? Because at the end of the day, it's technology, it's software, it's a database, and somebody has to program it. It doesn't happen by accident. It doesn't come down from space. It's right here among us. So I don't think people realize that there's a human being at the other end of the programming, right? Correct. The amazing show that you had two days back, where you explained the technical points of chat GBT, they were like a good foundation, which we had, isn't it? Now, the point that you made was, what are the values that you put into this technology? That what is the input that you get out? Who influences what is coming out? Who influences the language of the program? So these are very, very ethical questions that we have to ask in technology, Jay. And that's what makes technology feasible for humankind. If you have a rope technology, a lot of things are going to go wrong because technology can be used both ways for rope purposes and for progressive purposes. So when you have this technology, like you mentioned, playing the trump card in the Trump elections, so we don't want something like that. We don't want a disruptive technology. We want something which helps us to add on to our database, add on to our knowledge, give us knowledge at a faster pace. This is a natural language processing model, but how much can it interact with users depends on the values put into it. So that's what we have to be careful about. So because, like you mentioned, this chat box, as you call it, is not connected to the internet. It is still in the programming stage. It has data only up to 2021. So we are still in the lab stage, but the final product should be conducive to humanity. So, and now we have artificial intelligence which is just on a rise with every company that you find a panicking, even Google saying they might have to shut down in two years because their search engine might close under because of chat GPT. So you have them coming up with their own versions. Now what you choose is your own perception of it, like Firefox, Microsoft, what do you choose? It depends upon you, your needs, your output data, everything, you know? So choice is yours, but technology has to be good. That's it. Until this came out, you know, I was doing fine. I was doing fine. I would throw something on Google. I would get my answer. I would go on my Amazon box, Alexa, and I would get my answer. So is this really necessary for the human condition or is it too much? They say that we are on the right side of the development and we are seeing an exponential technological advancement in all fields. So Jay, if you say we are in that age, which is equivalent to the 1900s, when 1900s we had three huge things coming, telephone, automobile, and electricity. These were the bamboozled entire system. So now we have five innovation platforms. We have robotics, we have genome sequencing, we have storage, we have artificial intelligence and we have blockchain technology. These five innovation platforms are the ones which are going to shape our modern world. So artificial intelligence is one part of that innovation platform. We are talking of one dot, that GPT is one dot in artificial intelligence, robotic, genome sequencing. These are going to rock the world. I can give an example of this. We have these autonomous taxi services where you have a convergence of three platforms. You have the robotics, which is a vehicle. You have the artificial intelligence, which books your cab, which gets you the cab, which talks to you, which asks you your destination and you have the energy storage, which is the vehicle itself. So you see these innovation platforms are not single and not moving in one direction. You have convergence of these S-curves and they are feeding off each other. So it's like a sci-fi movie. We don't know where this is going to go. And J, this, for example, this autonomous vehicle is just accounting for seven to eight trillion dollars. It got it by 2030. Right now it's negligible, but by 2030 it's going to be eight trillion dollars. And these five total innovative platforms, if you say, if anybody's interested in the equity market, in the share market, these five platforms account for seven to eight trillion, that is around 10% of the share market globally, but say it's going to go up to $210 trillion. So can you imagine the leap that it's going to take? And this is a conservative figure or estimate that they're taking out because we are not taking in the artificial intelligence innovations. We are still talking at a conservative level, but if more come out something, this is going to just blow up. So imagine equity market like this. Now, J, see this, equity market is promising you a $210 trillion, but so many jobs are going every day because of technology. You mean going away? Yeah, going away. People are losing jobs because of technology. If you have one bot which does the job of a hundred people, you will lay them off. Why will you pay for this? So it's such a balancing game, also going on. It brings in money in the equity market, but it lays off jobs. So economy is going to be affected by chatGPT, by innovation platforms. Where did I see the number that something over 50% of the jobs in the global economy can be retired because of chatGPT. It will do their work for them. And it's really, really interesting. It's going global, right? We know that. That's why we're having this discussion. It's everywhere. And it's going to be everywhere. And the disruptive quality of this technology means that those who adopted or on one side of the disparity line and those who don't are on the other side. And the disparity line is huge. And that means in terms of countries and communities and individuals and businesses, of course. So if I, and I can see clearly that if I adopt this, I'll be ahead of my competitor who doesn't. If I use this in my national economy or whatever national initiative I have, I'll be ahead of other countries. I'll be better off. So I'd better get about it. I'd better start right now because it's moving so fast. You agree? I agree, Jay, but all this technology is possible only when you have access to the internet. When you have access to computers, when you have access, there are still countries in the world which do not have access to basic telephone lines. So how much are you going to sell this technology? How much are you going to sell this to them? And outsourcing which takes place. You have countries which have outsourcing which is done. And if these innovation platforms take over that, the joblessness leads to a direct effect on the GDP of a country. GDP of a country affects the global market. It spirals into a different situation. We are in an interconnected world. So when you see these things playing the disparity that we are seeing, it will be more acute. The haves will have more haves than the have nots will have nothing left to them. Because see now, chat GPT in its innovative research stage garnered around a million followers in one week or something like that, that was the figure that was given. So the kind of response that people give is phenomenal. And when you see that this technology has no barrier or no limitation to the extent that it reaches people, we understand that no industry can be immune to this. We can use it to anything. And responsive, Jay, how responsive is the technology? You have had an interaction with it. How did you feel about that? Yeah, I went with millions, tens of millions of others all in the past couple of weeks and everybody jumping on this thing to have a trial copy. And I have it on my machine and I can go and ask it questions all day and all night. And I have learned that whatever question I can think of, it will answer. And whatever area of inquiry I can use to think of it will have more. So for example, I asked it to write a poem and it did. I asked it whether I should buy a new chair and it did. And then I asked it, are there any considerations about not buying a new chair? And it came up with the negative on buying a new chair. What I mean is it can argue both sides, all sides of a given proposition. This sounds like lawyers in court, doesn't it? One lawyer is using it to say, I advanced this idea, another one is saying, I oppose this idea. And then you can give what I call an open AI. You can give that to the judge. You don't need a judge anymore. But it evaluates both lawyer's briefs and it makes a decision. So this changes our world. The problem is right now, it's kind of in chaos. What I mean, I would like to talk to you about that. There are some, if you go and you go on your phone, go on your phone and go look at the play store on your phone and ask it about what kinds of programs there are that will give you chat GBT. Okay, it'll come up with dozens, many dozens. It's not just one program. And then of course, some programs are better than other programs, they're competing. You mentioned that, I did the primary one, the one that I'm on, which is the openai.com, does not have information after 2021. And that's because it's a test. But Microsoft Bing, the search engine Bing is supposed to be folding in current events right till today into its database on an automated basis. So your answer is going to have the latest and greatest on everything, according to the news that's being reported. This will give Bing a tremendous advantage. And then they'll all be following that, won't they? I mean, the competition is clear, the competition is growing, competition is global. Correct, Jay. Now we have a character and Claude coming up. This is chat GBT we are discussing. Character and Claude are going to come up. But Jay, still now, this chat box knows how to please the master. If you say, no, I feel the answer is this. It'll say, I apologize. And I think you may be right. You know, we wait for the point when the chat box will say, no, I think I am right. If you say, no, my house is this way. And if the chat box starts saying, no, I think you should be going this way, we are in trouble, Jay. So that guy, who will control them? Humans, you can control through jails, through judicial processes. How can you control technology? How can you control technology? There was a little story about some young 22-year-old who had invented a program to identify when the text was being written by a chat box. That's very interesting because you know, you're an academician. The professor is always going to ask you to write something up. The business community, your boss at work is always gonna, you have to be able to write things up. Well, I'm here to tell you that you could go on chat at GBT and you could say, write me a story about the border dispute between India and China. Okay? And you were meaning- In spirit language, in spirit language. Yeah. And it will do that. And so if I'm a student, how can I not? So I go and I know some professors who believe that they have already received written work that was written by a bot. Anyway, so the countervailing proposition is that there are bots that can identify the other bots. And likewise, and this came up in that show I was telling you about called The Global Debate, which is actually interesting enough, an Indian program emanating from India where they had a bunch of scientists and technology people in various countries. And they're talking about the technology behind that WPG. WGW. TPT. TPT. And there are programs that will identify when the bot is giving you misinformation. Okay, so now it's getting to be a little chaotic, isn't it? Correct. Correct, Jay. I mean, what you talk about, that when the bot starts telling you that it's going to give you misinformation or this is wrong, this is falsely implied. When we see the possibilities that we can have with this box in essay writing, it's particularly good for engineers where they can develop a full scale model of the building that the structure that they want to build. So that is one advantage that this one has, designing the designers might go out of job, a site engineer can just pick up and build the site. So you see how much the chat box will develop. This is model 3.5. There's a new model coming in, which is chat GPT-5, okay? That is close to the human brain. But Jay, I feel it's a miracle that our brain is functioned so well to process and to feel so much technology, so much innovation, but still this chat box does not feel as yet. We should appreciate the human machine more, I feel. The machine innovation technology that we put in still does not have feelings, still does not have the mind of its own. It is programmed to work under human supervision. But you see, what it output it gives is very vague in the sense that we don't know where it can be, what do you say, manipulated. Like we go back to the first point that we made, it can go to suit or influence a person's thinking, inclination. You know, there was some game which was going on on that video game. And it was a simulation game and it played on the minds of the people's, the game was so much, it had a negative effect, psychological effect. So, I mean, you get dependent on this technology. And once you start getting dependent on this technology, it becomes difficult to live a sane life. It begins to own you. It begins to run you. Yes. You know, a couple of things come out of your comments that are very provocative. I mean, it sounds like, it sounds like that we are not far from machines that are self-aware, that have a consciousness. And is there a rule in the, but you know, our brains, which are really well-designed compared, our brains are only electronic machines at the end of the day and we have consciousness. You can enter religion and all that, but consciousness can be quantified. Consciousness can be, this is my view, can be created or something close to it. And people want this, they want to see how far we can go. Every technology person, every programmer wants to push the barrier here. They want to push the cutting edge and they're going to be looking for that. And maybe in our lifetimes, maybe soon we can reach machines that are almost conscious, almost have self-awareness. Of course they're programmed, but they can program themselves and they can appreciate, you know, how smart they are, what they know, what they don't know, who's asking. I mean, why not? This is, you know, technology, it's electronics. I believe it and be done, it will be done incrementally over the next few years. The scary part is I can say, what couch should I buy or should I buy a chair or all that, now get some reasonable advice. I can also say, I can also say how exactly do I conquer the world? You know, Vladimir Putin has this too, you ask this program any question and it will give you a very knowledgeable answer. So he puts in, how do I conquer the world? How do I beat the Ukrainians? And he will get an answer, a very sophisticated answer. This is very impressive, isn't it? If you bring it in politics, I think the chat box will just keep quiet and say, I think it's a mad world, I don't want to go into that place. The maniacs that we see in the political world are just too much, even for the chat box to handle. But... You have to program the chat box, not to handle that. I have to say, you know, you can't answer that question and you don't want to go there, but as I mentioned, this is very competitive. It's open source in a sense. And I can program it to not deal with politics, not deal with taking over the world, or not. I can take those guardrails off just as easily. And so my competitive chat box is something that Vladimir Putin can use. And so where does this end? And it's not just that you can write text for you. It can have a conversation. It can have a conversation with a live person in spoken language, any language in the world. It can draw. It can design. It can create art. I can say, show me how to build a 20 story hospital with all the gear in it, and it will do that. And it will give me instructions on what I must do first to build my hospital. The power of this is incredible. And as we go forward, we're going to see it play out more and more. The motivation that these innovators have in creating these devices and these platforms, Jay, is phenomenal because you see what Ellen Musk did with the Starlink satellites. Today, Ukraine is surviving on that internet access. Even the chat, GPT has Ellen Musk as a investor. So, they think out of the box into the future and we are able to visualize. They're like looking into space. There is no limit to what they think about. They don't keep boundaries. We may think that maybe it should stop here. Maybe it should not go ahead. But they think beyond this. Well, for example, let me go out of the topic. After two, James Cameron took seven years to just create a camera so that he could have his visualization come on the big screen. So, when you have that kind of motivation and when you have that kind of outlook, you can create. So, people who have come to this chat box, GPT, artificial intelligence as a whole, chat GPT is a small part of it, but artificial intelligence as a whole, when it asks you what you want to order and what would you, it suggests to you what it would feel suits your palate. I mean, that is something like they are like, like you said, they're like psychologists to us. Psychiatrists, they think for us. They influence our thinking. So, this kind of technology when it goes, it is mutually symbiotic. It is going to make the world a better place. Also, you know, I mean, for example, I could say, what color tie should I wear today or what should I have for lunch? Where should I, what movie should I see? You know, I mean, I could ask it to guide me in my daily life. It would be my best buddy. And I would not need other people. I mean, I'll always talk to you, Rupani. Somebody asked. Somebody asked. Go ahead. Somebody asked chat box GPT 4 plus 4 is 7. My wife says so. She said, no, it's 8. But maybe if your wife says it, your wife is always right. So it's kind of that much of an adjustment. So it's amazing to see what can be done with it. Well, different people are going to have different approaches. You know, it's like social media. You know, you have to be smart about using it. You can't ask it a question that, you know, that it's not going to be able to give you a good answer on. And you have to appreciate its answer. It may have the reservation. You know, if your wife says it's 7, it's 7. You know, that's pretty smart. You know what I mean? Life is always right. You know, I was in, where was I? In Australia at a museum. And I gave the lady a bill of bailing money. And she gave me change. And the change dropped all over the floor. It was her fault. It was her fault that it dropped all over the floor. So I said the very civilized thing. I said, I'm sorry. She said, you're telling me you're sorry when I dropped the money? She said, you must be married. No. I mean, happy life is the goal, isn't it? So what about regulation, Group Madi? I mean, you know, we have different governments that are going to have different views and different officials and representatives and so forth that might regulate this differently. In the United States, we don't even understand these tech companies now. We don't have a clue. We have not regulated them. They have done terrible things to the First Amendment and so forth. But we have not regulated. We have not given them any guidelines on when they're damaging the country and when they're not. How can we possibly regulate chat GBT? It sounds like we're not even close to that. And if we don't regulate them, what happens? The corporate laws, the technological laws, you know, like the pharmaceutical companies, we don't have clauses for vaccines. They cannot be held accountable for the side effects of the vaccine. Same goes with technology. We can't hold them accountable. So if something goes wrong, I mean, we can complain. But we can't hold them accountable, that they are responsible for the damage caused. That clause is not there effectively in any government in the world. What about the United Nations, Rukmati? I always ask you about the United Nations. Is this something the United Nations could be effective at regulating? I hope so. It's a neutral area that they can work on and get something. We have a section known as Global Compact, where they work about these issues which they need global understanding. Technology can be part of that. But I hope they work on better things like Ukraine before they work on chat GBT. Who knows? Maybe there's a connection. Maybe somebody in the United Nations how do we stop the Russians? Give us an answer. Tell me what we must do. I mean, Jay, it's playing all over, isn't it? We don't want conferences later on in life saying that we should have done this. We want action right now. So use all the technology that you have to stop the war. That is the message that has to be repeated every day. It's just become a part of the news and people forget. It's a sad part of this. You get it to your tablet, to your mobile, to your laptop, but you ignore it. But there's a full-fledged war going on. Yes. And so we all have to see the possibilities and the advantages. So my question to you is recognizing this, listening to this show and other shows that we at ThinkTech will do to try to understand. And that Indian show I mentioned, which I was very impressed with, the global debate. Oh, you can find it on YouTube. You can find everything on YouTube. I suppose you can ask GPT, chat GPT about the global debate and it will tell you everything you want to know and more about the global debate. But given the fact that we are somewhat aware, we've looked at this, we've studied it, we've talked to people about it. We've used it, we've tried it. We've asked the questions and seen the answers. We understand the power of it, OK? And we are in a little group, but there's a disparity between us and people in countries that don't have broadband. So what do we do? What do we do individually and as a group in our companies? With our elected representatives, what do we do to use this and not abuse this? Boil down to personal choice and personal use, Jay. How do you use this? I mean, it's going to be very helpful and safe because the impersonal nature of this artificial intelligence makes sure that you interact on a neutral platform. You don't have somebody who has a bias against you. So if somebody doesn't know how to interact or how to get feedback and expects an impartial assessment, it can go to this chat box. If I want to understand some issue without any prejudice, I can ask the chat box for two different views or what I... I can program it to suit my direction. So that's the way to go, Jay. I mean, using this technology to suit our needs is the main thing, but I'm still saying because this chat box is still not connected to the internet. The moment it gets connected to the internet, it will have up-to-date information. It will have a vast array of information which was not there till now. When we tell it to write a poem about you as Shakespeare would have written it, it will have access to more data, more perspectives. So that becomes fruitful for us. But how do we bring it on to... I mean, for me, technology does not have to displace the human usefulness. That is the value of technology that I feel should be limited to just that, that human usefulness should not go. I always thought you were a Renaissance woman. Now, what about this, body? Hearing you explain these things makes me think of China. It makes me think of the social score system in China. If you're the kind of person who, Jay walks, not to use my name in vain, but if you're the person who Jay walks or violates the rules or sheets in some way, your social score is really low. And for that reason, you can't get on the bullet train. You're not going to be considered for this job or that job. Your life is limited because your social score is low. Now, some people say that's not fair and it's an imperfect way of rating people and giving them benefits in the society. But that's what happens in China. That's the way it works. Okay, suppose I said to you, Rumani, that if you are a person with a good, and I'll call it social score, although that may not be the best term, then you can have access to chat GBT. And if you have abused that GBT, if you have done things in the community that are not community oriented, that are not the benefit of all people, altruistic things, if your social score is low, you don't get a chance to use chat GBT. It's a special thing. It's like driving a car. It's a privilege granted by the licensing organization, whatever it is, and it's not a matter of right. This has a certain appeal, doesn't it? True, Jay, this carrot and stick policy that we have, we can use, it's social media in China is usually monitored, so many websites are blocked. Websites are blocked. So like in India also, apps like TikTok and when we had an argument, we blocked applications which were Chinese. So this kind of technological warfare keeps on going on when Russia attacks Ukraine, they shut down the internet. So you have technological barriers that are put in. But personal barriers to what extent you can put in, we have VPNs going on, we have social media which can be misused to a tremendous level, Jay, the harassment that goes on social media accounts. There is, when you are alone with social media, there is only your personal self-discipline that is your barrier. That is exactly what we have in technology. Nobody will tell you not to use this unless it's your personal self-discipline or monetary barriers that you are going to charge for the chat box. So that can be a delimiting factor. If you're really useful, then you buy it and you use it. Well, that's the output of word, buy it, buy it. Because what I've seen is that open AI is free now, it's a trial, but when it goes connected to the internet, it's going to be a different situation. Something about a monthly cost of belonging, of using, of having the right to use of 40 bucks or something close to that. And that means 500 bucks a year to do that. And you can see that if that comes to pass, A, there's going to be much more powerful programs because it has to justify that cost. And B, probably the price will go up from $40 to who knows what depending on who you are and what you need from it. So my question, my last question, Roopmati, is would you spend the $40 right now? And how much would you pay to have this enormous leverage in your life? I would keep my $40 and use the free version till it's available. Okay. All right, well, we have to stay in touch. And maybe your view will change when we see the technology change. Thank you so much, Roopmati. Roopmati Kandekar joining us from New York and talking about the global impact of chat GBT. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Jay. Always, always a pleasure. The same. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.