 weapon in the game, right? Dude, the brick is so consistent as well. Yeah, the problem is, that's what you want it to do. Like, maybe Polar would have used his guns more if he would have just unloaded them and thrown them at the enemies. Yeah, dude. I should have been like breaking the bricks down into little you know, crumbs and stuff, and they put that into the gun. Shoot the pieces of brick at enemies. It's like a slight, unimportant question I have. Why don't they just have, like, bayonets on their weapons, I guess? Like ramshackle bayonets? Wouldn't that be kind of useful? This comes into, I guess, the mechanics of video games as well, but you do have the many people we kill throughout the game who have better weapons than us, and we don't grab them. Oh, yeah. Of course, body armour regularly found which is really frustrating. And it's a damn shame such horrible luck that they run out of ammo right, right when you're killing them. It's like, man. They're like, you pick up the thing and it's like, one bullet. You're like, what, really? Do you remember Tommy just unloading warehouses of shots on you? Yeah. Remember when Tommy has Abbey dead to rights, but instead of shooting her he uses the rifle to buck her with it. That shit's great. And then Ellie at the end, you have to follow Ellie at the end through the curtains, and if that was me, I'd be like oh, I'm just going to wait for you to walk through the curtains. Oh, okay, that was it. I played video games. It's funny because I was so done at that point in the game I sprinted after her. She'd just pass through the curtain and she'd teleported through the next door, and I was like, excuse me. You're not allowed to do that. Hello chat. We're live. Howdy doody. Hi, everyone. We're discussing some awesome video games. Yeah. Game of the Year. It took me some time to play it but I got there and everyone here is let's just say explored the shit out of it and knows pretty much all of the context, so we're going to have a lot of fun talking about the... I was going to say pros and cons but that would be unfair. It implies an even ratio, so... Cons and cons? We'll be discussing the cons and cons. We'll go around and discuss each our favorite con. Oh. That's a question. What do you think is the worst thing that happens in the game and if we disqualify Joel's death? I was going to... Release the release of it. Yeah. I think the worst part about it is that they went about... Sorry, I thought you were going to mean. Do you mean the marketing? They actually release in the damn game in the first place. Yeah, I thought... Carry on. I think the worst part about the game is that they sacrifice cohesive narrative for a theme that's so dumb and simple. That's what I hate about the game. And they thank their hot shit for doing it. That's what I hate about it. If only we had precedent for that. Has anyone had to sacrifice the shit out of storytelling in order to be like but moth-leaves? I don't know. It's so weird how it just keeps on slotting right in. Can we have people fail in different ways now, please? It keeps happening. No, it's especially obvious in the first part of the game when you really dissect it. When you really think about that sequence the game is like banking on you to be emotionally invested in it so that you don't notice it. But your brain did. Oh, for sure. This is the thing. You also chose to kick your investment in the nuts in the first two hours, which is kind of weird. Oh, they do that more than once, though. Every single time. You play as Ellie for that long and you're like oh, I did actually manage to kill a lot of the WLF and we got Abby left. You're like, okay, okay. You go home. You're like, wait, what? And then fucking Jesse is shot in the face. You're like, oh, my God. And then it's like now to play as Abby. You're like, oh, my God, Gabe, really? I think that would probably be my pick for like the worst con about it other than Joel's death is people just randomly dying. I get what you're trying to say again, but there's nothing really to it and it doesn't really do anything. It became so just so repetitive in that it no longer was a surprise. I get it. People die senselessly. You understood that probably nobody was going to get out of this or very, very, very few people were going to get out of this. And you're like, okay, so all about Abby's friends are going to die. Probably all of Ellie's friends are going to die and it's just going to be Abby and Ellie and one of those are going to die. It kind of looked like. I find it funny how many people are speculating on what's going to happen in the third game already. Is it going to be Abby building a whole community built on love and acceptance and then Ellie comes back to kill more because she's so stupid wrong. We just need a fat Geralt prequel. I think that's what the fans want at this point. Yeah. It says a lot about your game that all a guy has to do is punch a bitch and he's the beloved new character. People just so happy is like that's all it takes. Our standards are so low at this point. It was a very special user. He was a legend. Okay. He stops them from beating her up once they've captured them. He helped his teammates by keeping their backs by flanking the enemy. He immediately gets the arrow out and tells the guy, you know, this is when you get that sorted looking after his teammates. He's got these traps set and he personally right. He goes and looks at these traps. He doesn't send his man out. He even comes with them. You know, and when the guy might have gotten bitten, he checks on him straight away. It's like, wait man, keep stuff safe and stuff. And then of course he gives the information that Ellie needs and then she kills him. The guy was clearly the most altruistic character. Yeah. Ellie was obviously being portrayed as the villain in that scene. In fact, Geralt was just trying to help her. Terrible. Terrible. What a good guy. I think there's a lot of story there. I think we need a series where we open with him like in a forest looking for his dad and then we find his dad is like some kind of, you know, animal protector of some kind. Like a hedgehog. Like, oh, I freed a hedgehog. Yeah, he's a hedgehog tank cheery owner. I want that to be how everybody first talks about making someone look good now. It's like, did they save a zebra? I don't know. That shit was so manipulative. I rolled my eyes out like Jesus Christ. If only Hitler would have saved a zebra when he was younger. Games not even trying. Not even trying. Look, he saved a zebra. Look how incredibly nice he is. The halo above his head. I just, it was those cliches because obviously he was nameless talk to man in the first game and in the second they have the seed where he's like, damn it, I don't want a loser but we have no choice. Oh, the sacrifices I have to make to save the whole world. I've never lost a zebra before and I'm not going to start now, damn it. Doctor, if you're so concerned, why didn't you train somebody else to do what you can do? Exactly. There's not a zebra to go around for two doctors. That's the spooky undertone. He doesn't teach anyone his skills because he wants to be seen as the best player. Not to mention he says something like it'll make all the fireflies have lost their lives with something. It's like, do you remember the first game you all were terrorists? You blew shit up to your political goals. It's also about the second game. Well, of course they think they're the heroes and stuff. It's just funny that the second game is absolutely on that team. It's like, yeah, they are the heroes. You're like, hey, I don't know. He's a fucking piece of shit. I also didn't like that the second game, the lack of ambiguity. Yeah, this is what I meant about a D-rated character. Joel, I would actually argue, is never strictly in the first game presented as just Rey, what a good person, what a great person. He's quite disgruntled and he does a lot of... The first significant choice we see and make in terms of a moral one is, look at this innocent family who need help and he goes, leave them. Just leave them. Yeah, fuck them. And you'd be like, damn. You could be in the writer's room and you'd be like, do we really want to open with that? We want people to be in deer towards Joel. And it's like, this is who Joel is. And they're like, who? Who? And then in the second game... They went too far. They went way too far. He's become the Moses. It's... This will be the first game. The first game wanted to tell a story about a character. The second game is like, you will think this about this character, okay? You're like, no, no, I don't think I will. I think... Any of the subtle touch that the last of us one had is just, it's not there. Which is very, very funny. Everyone's going to talk in the same kind of tone of voice. When it's just Ellie and Dina talking, it's hard to tell who's even talking. Yeah. It's funny as well because you look at the ending choice in the last of us one and it's a lot of people condemn it, describe it as monstrous. But, you know, of the people who defend it as being something either neutral or even a good choice, something that they would do, everyone agrees it was in character. They were like, yeah. That's something that they would do. There's a great ending. Well, that's the thing. I honestly think that's what usually is going to make your narrative choice survive the ages. It's just make sure it was in character. You'll be okay. This one, it's like doing the reverse of can we justify Abby's choices in the opening of the game by showing you her life? And I'm just like, every single second more of you showing me her pulls me further away from believing this is what she would do. It has the exact opposite effect of now I know that she's invested in all the things that I want to rip away from her. Yeah. But what was even more jarring is that every single solitary flashback she's in she's just a normal girl looking like a normal girl and then when it jumps to the present day suddenly she's Mr. T and she's like, whoa why haven't we seen this transformation where this came from? Well, yeah, I think that's the more interesting story how she interacted with the WLF and eventually went on some outpost scouting and then found Owen and then eventually killed Joel. I mean, most of that could be in food, you know? I feel like I got it. Dude, the scene where they go, oh no Danny's dead. Everyone is like, who's Danny? Oh, did you watch the recent shoutouts to Internet Historian? Did you watch his recent video about the thing? He had a line there. I've got it queued up, I haven't seen it yet. Yeah, yeah. He says something nice about Neil Druckman. I'm going to assume it's backhanded. Oh, I haven't seen it yet, no. Just watch, it's a fun video anyway. Just watch it for the kill shot. It's so hilarious. Shoutouts to Internet Historian. He's a really good video maker. He was fucking in some of my streams for the game but just the sarcastic comments constantly is so fucking funny. Yeah. Have you considered Neil Druckman's feelings? I was like, oh man. If only we had a prequel of Neil Druckman in his house saving kittens and then we were like, oh see, he's a good man. Oh, but what about the cat? Oh no. And yeah, I think it's, you know, like Joel shooting people and getting to just to save a girl, and all of them, by the way, are shooting at him with assault rifles and in groups and talking about how he needs to be stuffed. The one with the doctor, of course, pulling a knife on him. Which, by the way, canonically you don't necessarily have to kill. There's a kill, I found this out from Southport, there's a kill counter in the game and if you shoot the man in the foot he falls over unconscious and it doesn't get registered as a kill. Oh, really? Yeah, so, well there are multiple ways to decadadize the last of us too. I love the idea of Abby running in the room and he's sitting there going, ouch, geez, my foot. My foot sees it. Oh my god, it already sees. Ow. I'm gonna be able to re-surge it again. I'll tell you didn't. Maybe Abby just shot him then because you're so, you know, set. My dad has to be dead for to plot to make sense. Yeah, my life is nothing if you're alive, father. I must kill you. Wait, what? What? No. You don't get to rush this, you stupid old man. It's like, thank you, Abby. You're really a... Yeah, way to endure your character. The lesson here is the way you it's not the way you want to endear your player or reader or whatever to a character they've seen do something terrible that they hate isn't to then just show them doing good things. Yeah, I know. It's so childish. That's not gonna... The smart way to do it is to tell us exactly why she made those decisions. But like I said, all I ever get is more and more reason to think she wouldn't make that decision. I would downright call Abby out of character when she kills Joel. If someone wanted to say... It would be more interesting if she was, if her story started off and she's literally in the thick of it. She's, you know, outnumbered, outgunned, outclassed. She's just desperately trying to survive with all these, you know, weirdo shits going on around her. She's forced to drink, kill, murder. She's never had that sort of support network or anything like that. And then you'd be more inclined to believe the kind of savagery that she has against Joel. Because Joel just shoots her dad. But Abby takes her time and golf clubs him for ages. That takes off her jacket. That's a special kind of brutal, you know? That's not an eye for an eye. That's like... There are suggestions. There are hundreds of suggestions to change how it all works, but still results in Joel's death. I prefer them all. Imagine she finds out his name. A lot of people have suggested that she finds it out because Tommy calls for him during a fight where he's got a clicker on him. Perfectly natural. And then they get to the lodge and he sits down with her and he's like, I'm gonna keep that he's saved or even though I have issues with all of it. But you can have her just start crying. And you'd be like, wait, why? And we know that's like because this is the guy who killed her dad and he's showing her loads of care and empathy. So now she's just completely broken what the hell is she supposed to do now. And you know, another suggestion is that she never found out it was Joel and she worked with him for even half the game or some shit. Which by the way is still contrived or more like character conflict that's more interesting than now golf club lull by. It's like, oh, all right. Every suggestion is just so much better. It's frustrating. And of course, the answer is that you didn't get it. You didn't get the perspective. That was part of the idea of the game. It's like I don't know that anyone not have noticed what the zebra thing happened. I think everyone clued in. They were like, oh, that's so obvious. I laugh when I saw the zebra. I'm like, oh, it's too pure. It's so fucking pure. What this saint over here. Oh my god. It's time to go to church now. Let's go. You are very where it's Bible to he made Bible to and yet that we found to black Jesus. And of course, there's just the discourse right now is so polarized. It's insane if you check out the like load them up on two halves of your monitor. The last of us one subreddit and the last of us two subreddit. One is like unequivocal love and loads of posts about how haters are so wrong and they have no idea what they're talking about. The primary argument being people who hate this game just hate that Joel died, which is like not even close to the discourse. I mean, that maybe if we keep repeating it enough, people will believe that's the case. You hate it because Luke wasn't running around blowing up 80 80s with lasers. That's not what I first off that would be better than what we got. Excuse me. Yeah, and I'm not I don't want to imply that there's no straw manning of the people who defend the game. It's just that you get these comments that are like, Oh, man, you know, I wish I could just enjoy a piece of media without people hounding me. And it's like, I mean, what exactly is required to enjoy a piece of media? Your existence? You just existing? I suppose they want to talk about how they want to express it. And as soon as you express it, you're going to make claims because you're going to be like, beyond saying I like X, you will then explain Y. And as soon as you say Y, you're going to make some claims about what happens in the game. And as soon as you make claims people disagree with, they're going to want to counter it. That's simply how it works. Like, I love the fact that, you know, Joel was essentially criticized by the game more so than the first one instead of being held up as a hero. Someone's going to read that and be like, excuse me, I have a fucking thing. And then if they're like, wow, you can't let me enjoy it. This is what I mean about the discourse being toxic and confusing. And both subreddits hate each other. There's regular posts about how wrong the other subreddit is and I find it all very amusing. That's funny. That's hilarious. They screen shot each other and then they go, look how stupid the other is. And it's like, oh man. Oh, but guys, don't you see you have to forgive the other person or they're wrong because they don't know survivors. This happened before with of course free folk versus Game of Thrones. Free folk is the subreddit that basically talks as much as they can about all elements of everything, including leaks. They will not only search out and share leaks, but they'll discuss the ever-loving crap out of them. Game of Thrones was spoiler free for the most part discussion of each episode as it came out. Those were the two sort of atmospheres. Free folk was really freeform and Game of Thrones wasn't. When Season 8 was airing, Game of Thrones was doing its best to remain positive, talk constructively, et cetera, et cetera, while free folk was like now fuck this, this is garbage, set on fire, post all the posts about how terrible this are. The two subreddits fucking hated each other. And then before that you have the Star Wars subreddit against the prequel meme. The prequel meme subreddit became like a haven for people who hated the sequels naturally because the prequels are better than the sequels just saying. I don't think that's a hot take for anyone here. And it's just crazy to see it play out over and over again. And the thing in common I would say every time is they assassinate the fuck out of characters that are beloved for years. Jon got completely assassinated in the character. He was sacrificed up. And if the game, particularly at the end, if the game was all about it's all futile anyway, and you need to learn to kind of move on or get over it then why was Joel the only one who didn't get forgiven? I mean he moved on. Yeah, he did. Poor guy. I feel really bad for him. That's what he says in the last game. We find reasons to keep on living without having to go out of my way to kill someone. Yeah. This is a good, we're starting off great guys. Evan said he would say Tommy was done dirtier than Joel. Really though? Really? I think you could actually make an argument for that but I think Joel was done the dirtiest either way. I guess it really depends on if we're specifically talking about the actions and things that that character would do and say versus what was done to them. I don't know, I feel like Joel got it the worst out of everybody in terms of what was done to them. The game didn't have like active hatred for Tommy in the way it had for Joel. Yeah, but they still did it dirtier. They could do that next game. I do want to clarify Tommy was absolutely shot on. That's true. He goes like why don't you kill her for me? It's like do it yourself you fucker. People in chat were like he's got a libs like I don't care, I do not care. You can still do it. Tommy was the one telling them we've killed enough people let's leave Seattle now and just go back home. Hey Tommy why not kill Abby though? She's the last one. Why does everyone keep not killing all of the last of them? They sent me a link and I asked that question in the stream we had the heel stream afterwards smaller like I asked why doesn't Tommy just stay and he showed me the clip where Maria just goes find Tommy and give him back to me something like that. But I say like what everyone's been saying you go ahead and get Dina out I'll stay here and kill Abby he could have done that that's what I thought was going to happen I was like great we found Tommy so now Jesse can take Dina back Tommy and I will go and kill Abby but they're like no Dina's pregnant let's all go back wait what no Dina's such a retard I'm going to come on you to this revenge mission also I'm pregnant you won't make this difficult Dina exists to be a liability in the game and I'm sure well it's the whole thing with we saw this in pregnant lady on the front lines with her assault rifle big ass Tommy chucking grenades killing Nazis nothing stopping this powerful woman I think it's also because they try and do a lot of mirror they try and do a lot of reflectiveness between Abby and Ellie so they try and reflect their lives they're essentially trying to say their lives are virtually the same we're not so different you and me but mell is pregnant so Dina has to be pregnant because Dina has to balance mell's pregnancy so when mell gets killed and then Ellie says to Abby don't kill Dina she's pregnant then Abby goes good because it's going to balance the death of oh god it's so fucking which by the way mell and Abby were not on good terms you might even say they were on awful terms her final words were you're a piece of shit Abby going to hell or something like that it was such a great line oh it was really satisfying I'm supposed to feel bad for Abby because sad music is playing no that was one of the best moments in the game they do that when you find the weed stash they play sad music it's really weird no not the weed did anyone else find the romance between Ellie and Dina so unbelievable it's not a romance it's just not there it's like when you're walking around in real life and you see another couple on the sidewalk not on your side but on the other side of the road there's two people and you're like okay I guess they see something in each other yeah I mean they're probably together I guess yeah it's true we skipped over the history and their journey the majority of their journey it's like why gay what are you doing they're now together but we're not going to give you any development between these two characters okay game doesn't understand the lesson we're in they're in love and Dina's prepared to go to Seattle to die with Ellie if necessary at even sacrificing her unborn child yeah yeah it's it's half Asian though this makes no sense what the fuck oh I said one edgy joke and everyone's like oh you get laughed at bro don't worry about it there's a lot of character interactions in that game that you're just like man we could be spending time with literally fucking any other two people and it would probably be a bit better oh do you know the funny thing about the whole day one of Ellie and Dina there's a lecture about the holocaust oh right oh I remember I messaged Mahler about that when they were in the Jew I messaged Mahler like what the hell's up with this Jew stuff like this is weird this is an honest question would what's her name also know her heritage by that point so we've had how long has it been since the outbreak 25 years yeah so she she is an outbreak baby baby yeah so it seems of low likelihood she would have a lot of knowledge that goes outside of just outbreak world stuff really I mean I could believe she knows about the holocaust I suppose and her parents may have told her about it but it always odd to me whenever people talk about details from history where I'm just like Google and it's not really up and running and neither is schooling but alright I guess schooling is up and running because they have those all places where they teach people but I doubt she would have gotten that because that seems like a relatively new you know thing that they did in Jacksonville or at least from the events of the holocaust too but yeah you find a synagogue and you go in there and I'm looking around looking for resources and then I'm like wait I should be listening to the dialogue and then like the holocaust people survived it and I'm like I mean yeah allegedly we we do the fucking numbers shit it's just the it's just cut when being self-indulgent I thought it was I was trying to draw some kind of parallel there but I don't understand why the inquisition they survived the holocaust they could have survived there's all the apocalypse stuff like it's weird that that was your goal to explain such horrible things have been survived do you want to talk about like hunter-gatherer stage of humanity we survived a lot of horrible fucking shit back then imagine being in the writing room and they were going over the holocaust is bad thing in their story and you're like you know this fungal outbreak thingy it is worse than the holocaust though the dirty eye you're not allowed I'll fucking dare you I'll fucking dare you say that weird and then I think that was a bad move because it distracts you is like wait so Dina's like that's her thing is she just Dina's thing was just being fucking annoying in there after a while there's like a moment in the game where I'm searching through some building and I bump into her and I'm like why are you here it's like what do we have to go off for Dina what they want from us I guess is the question I'd ask when you're running around as Joel collecting stuff in the last of us one it's like oh there's Ellie every once in a while it's like my package essentially to deliver and as the game progressed because that's what I mean about how the endearment to the characters couched inside something else while that's all the last of us who is trying to do it's not really couched in anything it's just this is what we need it because fucking hell the world is filled with just lameness like the zombies are clearly an afterthought or the infected whatever yeah that's an impression I got from watching it and I'm like man these zombies are just like they're still around it's weird they're mainly for set pieces of just getting in the way and they always turn up when you just yeah they would a child card for the story we need something to happen zombies ooh yes they're around still I guess like when you're running to capture that girl and then she's like oh no a sudden drop into spores and zombies like oh damn that's inconvenient and yeah so you have that and then you have this religious cult that are hunting down a trans person you're like wow that's like wow what a strange decision and um yeah in the first game it just felt a lot more natural it's just a world that's dangerous because there are bandits around also there are zombies pretty much everywhere and there's spores pretty much everywhere and that we learn about the outbreak about how it affected everybody how the world has turned upside down as you move all the way through and you're like oh shit we finally did it this is actually the whole point was to get Ellie to this place and we did it we're here that sort of thing like the goal sort of fades away and then it comes back in just to hit you like a sledgehammer at the end because you're like oh this is where they separate I guess now you're like and then you're like wait I don't want that to happen and then all the drama happens but this game from the outset it's like you will like Abby and you're like okay I'll give you a chance game then 10 hours later you're like still not quite there you will be invested in Dina and Ellie's relationship no we will not show you it yeah that's the first thing what we told them about it you may not see it no the frustrating thing about it is that they're flirting they had sex and now they have this strong romantic relationship it's so abrupt it's it's like what the fuck I don't want to make too much for Collins but like it feels very superficial yes it is as James has just highlighted the game shows that women don't shave under their armpits after the apocalypse that is debt is it even worth saving humanity at that point no it's not worth shaving humanity James just mentioned in chat it's not actually clear that they're hunting Lev because trans rather they imply several times that as far as they're aware as cultists it's simply because well a shave that's about it he shaved his head yeah like that actually because like obviously the cultists probably aren't even aware of the concept of trans person so they're probably like oh you shaved your hair and you ran away you are therefore like the person we actually want to fucking hunt down and murder that's just weird yeah I think yeah I remember that dialogue like the ARS says that only the warriors or some men do that something like that like what Lev did was extra bad something if you notice with the seraphites all the females hairs are in a certain style the women were meant to grow their hair out to be put into that style and all the men shaved their heads but Lev shaved their head because they're identified as male post apocalyptic world 25 years in and then decided to try and get everyone killed by going back to the seraphite to talk to their mum about it and then they kill them yeah and then kill her yeah that made me mad that made me mad like we don't even get to see like any how do I something about that scene frustrates me it's like we don't get to worry yet that whole sequence is because you never see it through the eyes of Lev you just get to see everything that's one part and the other thing I'm on the cusp of it why does Lev go back when everything they've been doing is escape the hardcore religious folk they have to save mum even though mum fucking hates Lev as far as we can tell you might be like yeah but Lev wasn't convinced of that Lev killed her yeah Lev killed her and it led to Yara dying yep dude the whole bit is so you can see it coming a mile away you're like oh Abby's gonna take him there and there's gonna be some big conflict and try to get them out and then you'll have to turn on her own team and they make her turn on Isaac himself he turns up you're like wow the fucking leader is here can we talk about that scene can we talk about that thing guys why doesn't Isaac go okay you can have these two weirdos and we'll just kill everyone else on the island why did he say that yeah all Abby needed to say like no no no these are two defectors they're friends of mine I can vouch for them they give us information about the seraphites they've been hunted they're nearly killed by them they save my life like there's no we can use them like I think Abby says something like that well yeah of course they portray Isaac as being like a hardcore like nah all scars die sort of person mm-hmm how convenient for the plot I know because then she's like I am not moving and then he gets shot and it's so like I was half expecting the camera to pad left and just some other character that we've never seen before just just did it and I was just like yeah okay this is happening now but no it was I am Joel brother it was Joel I'm back, bitch Joel source code and he's half cyborg he's half cyborg Joel red eyes and everything I would like that come with me if you want to live Abby Abby we do get out of here I think I would like that actually that would have been a fun I know now why you cry yeah Joel the O is a zero Joel by I am Joel by J-zero 3L that's what it'll be J-zero 3L and at the end of the story she leads to forgive Joel bot yeah Joel bot sacrifices himself at the end to save everyone yeah I'll still have Easter Joel's character at least we got Joel bot Joel at least we got Joel bot we can't even say we got fat Gerald because they killed him off it was too good for this game I'll admit in terms of ratio of screen time to an amazingness through the roof move over Boba Fett everybody's favorite I also like when he like all the times he was on screen he had this presence and leadership quality about him I don't know man it's like maybe we should talk about that guys let's follow him yeah see what he got imagine Ellie says like I need you to show me where the place is and get me through security and I won't kill you and he's like okay and the game turns out the game's got another 20 hours and it's like the last of us but with those two and then eventually they like learn to work with each other and he becomes like a main character and he beats the face off Abby when you find them or what if we get DLC where he's the main torturer of Abby like I would pay for that press F for fat Gerald yeah he was too good for it he left should be dead that's all I'm going to say Lev should be fucking dead fuck your first world problems bitch yeah what's with the slavers doing crucifixion shit what's with that I got bored I guess it's just really I don't know it's just evil yeah because you know who else was a Jew Jesus and guess who else was a Jew Tina so I mean to Jews got him persecution porn it's Kirkman's persecution porn because the idea is like they tried to escape so they're being punished or whatever it looks like they're going to be killed it's just a really slow way of doing it which I mean I guess but yeah you know Abby was sacrificed for our sins and of course Ellie was able to see that Ellie's choice to commit to revenge ended up saving her life how incredible is that choice to commit and again so many endings she lost two fingers and she can't play guitar anymore right after she puts down her bag the supplies it's like no I have to do this and then leaves the bag well have you seen all the alternate endings people coming up with one of the ones I really liked was that Lev is unconscious and Ellie only takes down Lev and carries well just carries him away and leaves Abby so Abby can know that like you could have Ellie bring up Lev saying that Abby died and that she came to save them it's so unfortunate that uh Lev just shoots her with a bow well this is the thing there are lots of ideas about well Ellie could just kill them both Ellie could burn Abby while she's stuck to the fucking thing killing them both they're going home and just losing her fucking mind which by the way I quite like as a big old finish to just this is the result of all of this death is that she's partially losing it or going insane because I mean with everything Ellie's been through I think it probably would do some damage to your brain you know yeah she had PTSD in the barn exactly so we got precedent we'll just develop it into and then she could be a supervillain in the third one because fuck it whatever and then Joel could come smash okay maybe one of them I just really want Joel botten last was three I feel like we put out the suggestion it should ripple through the waves of the internet and eventually reach Neil Druckmann and he'll do it hey Joel bot can battle Dr. Druckmann brains 100 right all the fucking cards just have brains over brawn yeah most of them most of them did but it's just funny that if ever you insert yourself into a thing try to avoid giving yourself back stats on a desirable trade yeah he's physically weak right or not I don't remember I just remember that he put himself there I didn't actually find the card in game so I almost missed it and then I was like no you need to see a certain card there's a card you need to see and I was like alright and yeah I think most people read it and they are scared immediately to Druckmann brains 100 ooh yeah not for this game no not for this one you haven't earned that I can believe it though I can believe he believes it oh yeah I can totally believe I bet he thinks he is so fucking smart for this game he just got so defensive when the actual game came out and people like regular people started criticizing the shit out of it he just got so defensive online it's like how dare they how dare they talk about my masterpiece like this I can't see anything other than embarrassing they're shooting their ideas back and forth in their little boardroom and he's like we gotta get people to like Abby's dad pretty quickly like in the first five minutes he saves a zebra that could be a good way to do it fucking clever idea dude this would you say it out loud like that it's so silly we would all laugh at each other we'd be like what a goofy idea we shouldn't do that that would be really stupid ugh what if you saved a woman from a group of outcasts being raped and they said no what about saves a zebra and everyone's like oh I'm half picturing I like zebras too they're like cute aren't they imagine there were scenes where let's just pretend they had the stadium at the time and he was there too they're slaughtering a pig ready to feed people and he's just standing there disapprovingly like shouldn't hear animals I think that's wrong we're like okay I'm a vegan in the post you just be really funny and he if he opens it he just rips off his shirt and he's just got a massive tattoo saying vegan spelt with the three because he's also a robot he and Joe will battle in the third game watch out it's the clash it's the clash we deserve I saw some people wanting us to acknowledge did you see the book Abby was reading was written by the lead writer for Game of Thrones season 8 well Game of Thrones as a whole that's some coded right there I really hope someone else made that decision as in someone was like I gotta give them a clue like Abby's inspired by this okay you're like oh my god they don't even care that was an unfortunate decision there's a building up all these good all this goodwill points seven years of goodwill how can we fuck it up in just a matter of seconds let's kill Joe I think it was PewDiePie but they said something like I was like a clip I saw when Last of Us 2 to Last of Us 1 is like when you see a trailer that's just not even close to the same thing as the movie this seems so drastically disconnected the alike way I don't remember that this is what I was signing up for like what's going on you know who's teaching us some stuff Neil Kotlin has it do you think he masturbates about Alan Payne I always, yeah I always go mixed up with Edward Payne I think Abby is probably the one that you know like in no I think he'd be intimidated by Abby that's why it gets him off that's his fetish bro he's like yeah I only wish all women were stronger than men I only wish men could be useless so yeah I wanted to I guess just line it out quickly in terms of the the trail of bodies if we argue it starts with no sorry let's go from where it ends right so Ellie ends up sparing Abby and you're like that was after Ellie decided to kill Abby and that was after Ellie decided to spare Abby because Abby had decided to spare Ellie because Lev had criticized Abby for about to kill an unborn child and that all happened because Ellie had killed Abby's friends and that had happened in the space of 30 seconds Ellie decided to save Abby then had a vision of Joel I missed one out sorry then decided to kill Abby then had a fight and then had another vision of Joel which was a bit nicer then decided then decided to save Abby wow it's a historian's like this force ghost Joel trying to give a conflicting advice he's like no you must defeat your enemies then no you must spare your enemies anyone I don't know what you wanted guys I have a question if you see the person that if you see the one that killed the person in front of you and you're having hallucinations of the event would you spare the person no that's what I wanted to know what's the game trying to tell you and you know what in a perfect world right where she's about to spare and then she remembers Joel and kills her and it's as simple as that I would be like man it was pretty overt the way they flashed Joel's corpse on screen I was like I get it I could have got that myself I don't know this game flashes all kinds of shit it's like I don't know make it up yourself what do you think she's thinking he's playing the guitar like what the fuck is that yeah I was playing the guitar myself like yeah she's dead I'm getting flashbacks of happy Joel on a porch playing the guitar yeah this bitch is so fucking dead yeah exactly you are so fucking dead but I guess the opposite happened this is what Joel would want I don't know kill that fucking bitch I wonder if Tommy told Ellie that Abby did that to Joel after Joel had saved her life but Tommy was there for the kill so Tommy clearly thought that revenge was the right answer and he was wrong and look at him he's a twisted husk of a man now who lost his wife and his leg partially in his eye what a dumbass should have known better what a stupid wanker you see what vengeance does it consumes you and then you're like but what about Abby it's like well that was that was Ellie that was being mean to her she would have been fired if not for Ellie fucking it up as the game you wasted your life I don't think there's a single person consumed by vengeance in the game I mean well they tried right Abby hitting the girl over and over again for information which by the way was so fucking bad what else wanted to get I keep getting frustrated the people aren't as good as Joel when it comes to torturing information I was talking to Rags about this yesterday so Joel is like I need to know where Ellie is I've captured two dudes what I'll do is string them up put a map in front of them have one of them point to one and have the other one point to the other and then if it doesn't match up I will hit them simple while Ellie is like stay away from me also I'm going to move toward you while you're free and then one of them grabs her and she's like oh no oh shit shoots him he dies really fucking quick by the way but I guess he was shot in his yeah like artery or super important part of the body and of course when she overpowers pregonanto she decides to stab it right in the throat and it's like no no no she needs she had information like what oh another thing like he stabs Mel in the neck but when Abby is choking Ellie out she stabs Abby in the knee or some shit it's like yeah but in the whole scene the whole thing about when you go back onto Abby's side it's hey Mel's pregnant Mel's pregnant Mel's with Owen's there pregnant having a baby she's big preggers belly big big preggers belly belly preggers then when it gets to that aquarium scene where Ellie comes in suddenly she's wearing a big coat to hide that she's pregnant from Ellie because it needs to have that contrived scene that she kills so she's pregnant and none of them say don't hurt her she's fucking pregnant oh yeah that's a good point holy shit if you're a pregnant person you may choose to say I'm pregnant to protect yourself but a lot of mothers will be like please don't kill me because it will kill this child yes holy shit and Owen would be like don't hurt her you can hurt me don't hurt her she's pregnant yeah and then of course the scene should become I will kill her if you don't give me the correct answer yes yes but no we had to have the reveal bum bum bum bum that would mean the plot makes sense and would probably it's also pretty funny that um had uh Jesse and Tommy arrived a minute earlier they would have been able to get the information they needed guaranteed because there's three of them with guns versus two and one of them is fucking pregnant unarmed if they'd arrived a second later or a minute later sorry there's a good chance Ellie would have gotten that map because they pull her away and get her out straight away and it's just like damn they arrived like the way as possible fucking time you know what I also don't get why doesn't Mel just fucking tell where Abby is like she hates her right that's the context of where we are she says I'm not going to give up my no wait she doesn't say that right she just says no but oh Nora says that yeah Nora says she's a good friend but Mel is like hesitating like why well if you remember she says well she's probably dead anyway wait which means that what they were going to tell Ellie was that the fucking island right island yeah which by the way I would argue like Owen let's just tell her that she's at the island like what luck is this person going to have against all of the WLF like yeah that's dangerous for Abby but no more dangerous than her fucking everyday life like let's just tell her oh yeah it'll save my fucking baby it's the big island it's not like she's just gonna get me oh there she is right there let's go get it and then you know what's more interesting for us to see then is they give her that information and then she backs up and we're like right what are you gonna do now Ellie are you gonna kill them yeah like I want to see that I don't want to see oh you grabbed me boo boo boo boo boo boo ugh okay self-defense I guess it's nice and easy for people to be tracked down as well in apocalypse which is somewhat distracting but you know what I also like the map dropping and the hideout circled conveniently for anyone who could pick it up yeah we are here it's I do wonder about all this kind of shit like if the five of us were on a track and we have our map we set out from like New York City and we're going to just somewhere else and we have our map it's like should we put a circle around New York City because that's where we came from I'd be like why like I don't know circled Boston instead or something I don't know it just seems like a waste to put a circle around that because we all know that it's what you're going to call it in case on the way back we need to know where we're from if we forget where we're from then like how could we ever get back home exactly how does anyone remember where we're from oh no I like knew knew something at least like was it a theater was it a sleigh only we had circled it on the map well we talked about this before but let's also talk about how the names of the fucking targets are on the fucking pictures dude the Polaroids that shit's hilarious I've seen people be like I take photos of my friends and put my name on it it's like right I don't believe you I don't believe you so my family will put dates on photos sure like we know who people are I was going to say the reason we take the photo is to be like oh what a nice memory of that person that I can now trigger I put lamina on some photos depending on what I want to do with it it's just uh well it's not even just that right because let's just let it happen we're in a world where everyone does that all the time let's just say we all agree with that it's like damn she found that and they created that like that's yep a lot of things have to keep slotting in place for them to get their story which by the way is the part that I think is actually hard about being a writer it's not the let's come up with an idea where because that's what everyone's doing on the internet right now it's like wait what if the story had this though or what if the story did this instead these are all ideas the execution part is the bit the TARD you gotta get the actors to do their job you gotta get the animators to do their job the music to do their job and the writer to do his job slash here in this case it was written by more than just Neil Druckmann right it wasn't just him or was it just him I think there were two of them really gross I think well yeah writers were Neil Druckmann and Halle Gross yeah my last name was Gross I'd fucking change it that's a gross ending that's really like I'm sorry she also says something very interesting in the podcast I watched like they were after the themes first something wait I have my notes somewhere I really took a notice of that I've been prep I'm in the earlier stage of making a video my notes are scattered all over there's just so many random and just thoughts everywhere across my pages because there's just so much to collect what she says is we start with theme more than anything else like the 37 minute mark like well that worked out but the thing is there were writers who actually use that advice but create good shit because they don't give up after theme you know maybe we should have good execution because there are some writers who will let's just say you go you can choose your fighter you know you can go theme character plot or world you're gonna focus one and then you'll focus as much as you want on the rest some writers will be like no all are important some will be like it's important to get the theme and world right the characters will make themselves some people will be like no characters only just make everything else and someone's like well you got to get the plot line strong otherwise people won't be invested however good your character is you get all kinds of advice across the fucking spectrum but this one I can't even say the themes intact it's not it's destroyed by the narrative over and over again oh yeah it's like the opposite it almost efficiently is against itself in a way that I've never seen like not even last Jedi I think was so obvious in the way that what we see doesn't match with the theme this game seems to be finished a fucking job well I mean even the characters the character of Abby at the beginning of the game isn't the same character when we go to Abby's portion of the game neither has any of her friends I think the only character which remains relatively consistent throughout is Owen I think he's the only person which shows the same sort of concern from start to finish but Abby's just a completely different character when we pick her back up yeah she's she's not the same person at all and it's a really interesting attempt to make you sympathize with her exactly well there's no zebras to save what do we fucking do and that's like I can imagine that's in their office that's all along that's what they that's what they use to show that people are good just the zebra strats every fucking time like well we can't do the zebra sat strats twice in one game and then I don't know what to do I mean Owen sold he's saved three zebras and Mal saved two so I mean I guess she's the next to go what level of zebra savior are you on my dude they're all around like a writing a writing table and there's a whiteboard in the back with the words ever on it and it's just crossed out and everyone's got their heads in the hands like what do we do their favorite movie is racing stripes yeah bet it's been a long fucking time since you heard racing stripes referenced I don't even know what that is it's about a zebra who's a racehorse and he talks oh if the game is trying to sort of argue that all of the violence has an origin point and that is when Joel killed the doctor I would be like but that wasn't done for vengeance I mean you could certainly argue it was done when because the guy says you can't take her we need her to save the world or whatever that Joel is like now fuck you and kills him in a violent way but that's not a vengeance kill and so you can't you can't label him as the beginning of the violence cycle that would be abby but if you wanted to say that no it still counts because it's like a wrong thing to do or whatever it'd be like I don't know that specific kill itself he wants to get Ellie out of there Ellie hasn't consented to this operation this guy is threatening to kill Joel if he comes nearer it's like hmm that isolated incident the dad's not entirely free of free of blametisms there but I also find the aspect of the game interesting that it kind of tells us or at least it seems to imply and this is some of the Nolan North has echoed about a different part of the game but if Joel had just casually bumped into abby during the going through the hospital and killed her then the hospice too wouldn't even happen it'll be over but it clearly shows they had no idea for the last two because if they wanted to put that idea in the brain then maybe Ellie should have been consulted and you know Ellie if we go ahead with the operation you will die well it's funny internet historian argued that I'm watching his play through and the opening prediction he has is that what they'll reveal is that Ellie actually knew the whole time she understood Joel's actions and that this game will be about the fact that she's going to finally bring up the fact that she knew because she had consented it's just that they hadn't told Joel or something and as much as I would that would have been interesting it has been implied at the end of the first game that Ellie really knew that Joel had pulled her out but the interesting conversation is that she knows because of what they've been through how much he fucking cares about her and so she's like how do I deal with this and vice versa oh absolutely yeah and it's just every time someone suggests and I'm like ooh you get some really interesting dialogue going there like a really interesting back and forth everybody she's known her mother, her friends her little girlfriend everybody she's known has died and died and gone and died Joel is the first person that has actually killed and saved her and not died so he's the kind of like the exception to the rule he's the person that's bucking the trend so instead of everyone dying somebody is now protecting her, saving her keeping her alive, keeping them alive and that's why she doesn't say anything because she's felt family for the first time since you know I don't know how long maybe even all her life there are issues that come with all these things this is why I mentioned the execution thing having your idea at the core is then it really matters how you build everything around it so for example someone in a room that says hey what if someone hated what Joel did to the Firefly so much they kill him in the fucking opening of the Last of Us 2 and the rest of the game is about dealing with repercussions of violence and vengeance and stuff I'd be like hmm could work, I would caution you killing Joel early because a lot of players really find him engaging and so on like an emotional level you could be risking stuff there and then we get this, I'd be like no, not like no, no, no, no try again not like this not like this you're gonna have to try something else I think a lot of people really dislike the way they killed Joel I think that's really what it's not that he died it's just how they did it I think Joel is an incredibly easy character to happily kill off and have your player base be fine with it just because of the kind of person he is there's so many people who would want Joel dead you know when the camera pans to who after he says y'all seem like you recognize us when she says we do all some shit imagine like she was like her voice was breaking the fuck apart and she had tears all over her face and she just struck him in the head with the shotgun shot so he's just instant dead and he falls to the ground quite shocking and we can already I feel like that's just a dramatic improvement because we could be like she clearly found that painful and then she falls to a knee sort of thing and Tommy starts to wrestle them that they just tie him up they don't kill him they don't hurt him they're just like look but even then I want I don't know why they would have skipped on this why not have Abby and Joel talk it's like great to do a conversation I still want to see that conversation I don't like Abby surely based on the circumstances like how could she not know consistently Abby's been shown to be hypocritical and not self-reflective that's the problem with the character and it's like I don't even see her having a conversation she's just that into herself so much I'd love to see that conversation and then still see what decision she makes I don't mind the conversation ending nah I can't let it go he makes it clear that he did kill her dad and he did it for reasons that aren't necessarily altruistic like there are issues to it and then she's like you know what happens next and you have Joel say something like yes I do it would just be like shit and um yeah I don't know there's so many conversations that we don't get to have like I want to see just hours of dialogue between Tommy and Ellie after Joel dies well you got about 30 now that involves screen time with Tommy with Ellie and Dina to talk about old films and the holocaust you know it would cheer you up I know it cheers you up wanna talk about the holocaust yeah thanks no I got a girlfriend now it's okay I'm all for some downtime dialogue like that would be you know Ellie and Dina just chatting about nonsense but when it's actually building on a relationship that's gonna last and not one you're gonna kinda just ignore for most of the game cause it's not really a large part of it they didn't develop any of that relationship whatsoever no it just kinda starts is a thing they chat which would not really I don't really have any reason to be interested by this because I don't really know this relationship at all and then they kinda just flashbacks they didn't even do it in flashbacks either they have all these flashbacks and you hear Dina's name twice the flashbacks are worse because Dina is mentioned in the journal like remember the museum there was like Dina was mentioned in the journal she talks about how she's hanging out with these different people and these different relationships starting and it's all just written casually as spark it out to the journal and we're supposed to derive from that that Ellie and Dina are having this like secret love for each other or some shit like that's what they were banking on picking up that journal but then it means that nothing happened between them for five years until the which is just the stupidest fucking thing for there again that is consistent with how stupid the writing is in this story so agreed, agreed it's staggering and the fact that it's established in the flashbacks as well that Dina and Jesse are always on and off and on and off so they've been bonking for fucking years I think what Dina was trying to do in that whole party was like trying to get a rise out of Jesse and Jesse just went oh fuck off bitch I'm done with your drama that's why Jesse gave away Dina because he doesn't give a fuck anymore he's like I'm done with your bullshit he's trying to talk about synagogues and shit you're just reminding me of pregnant front lines when Abby's like wait is Owen okay with you about the pregnancy she's like why would he get like a say or why would he decide it I don't know it's his kid oh yeah he's like oh well I can see who wrote this but realistically I think the father of the kid might Alex went on a bit of a rant about this it would actually infuriate him if he was around a bunch of men allowing a woman who's pregnant to go and fight soldiers in a war when we've got all these able-bodied men he'd be like what the fuck are you all doing he's like well but Dina's just like the bestest ever and she's been killing zombies did Joel make no friends in Jacksonville too I feel like we should have all these characters Joel got fucking killed for rescuing someone he'd be crushing pussy in that fucking place we should have a fellowship let's go fucking avenge Joel we should just have all these different quicky characters one of them's like a really big fat dude who likes drinking beer but he's like you know fuck this we have our demolition expert he should have been fat Gerald fat Gerald should have been part of Joel's sand club yeah that would be a winner he's eating bigot sandwiches he's eating the bigot sandwich in the synagogue while Dina's explaining all of it we've lived to hear the phrase sandwich in the synagogue be uttered and then Dina's like we're speaking in that sandwich I don't give a fuck bitch she finishes his sentence about the horrors of the holocaust then you just hear a huge bip and he's like so we leave it what are we doing here is this like a Jesus place or something Jesus is Jewish wouldn't he we should get whatever we have here just go fuck this place yeah holocaust is that something you could eat like holocaust we used to have it brought to the bar two types of people that come into synagogues cheers and okay let's carry on everyone the scar on the back goes yeah back out should have been the whole game confirmed would have made us so much better imagine if he was in your group all game well yeah he doesn't have any weapons it's only his fists and all of his upgrade tree is just fist upgrades he power bombs people he clotheslines them like it would be fun punchy the harder that great tree is just like the exodia cards or something for his fingers like the thumb the right thumb of the forbidden one the ring finger of the forbidden one if you unlock the omega punch did you get all kinds of gauntlets rings and knuckle dust is the final upgrade being the infinity gauntlet he doesn't have he doesn't have a sneak skill tree he has a skill tree that gets him stronger the more people notice him something like that he gets upgrades like bayonetta or devil may cry style where he buys new moves you know how abby can teleport two meters forward to hit people he can teleport like the whole map to hit someone oh yeah he stands still your character model remains where it is the whole world just moves and it seems like you're in a different position it's like a final fantasy summon going down from the fucking sky I'm like fat gerald everybody wants fat gerald in like all fighter games now he needs to be yeah I love him I miss him I miss him too I didn't when I was enjoying his time I was like oh cause everyone's loving this I was like he must be in this game until the end then it's like no I guess killed I was like oh he was the best that's real cause that's when you get the best gun of the fucking game right at the end this silenced mp5 it's just like yeah god she has shit weapons throughout the whole game doesn't she it's like poetry it rhymes like when joel gets the rifle at the end of the game oh god what what did you think though when you when you heard big at sandwich for the first time I think I said what the fuck the game I knew what kind of people wrote the game cause I knew when I was watching the stream replay and we got to the apology aspect where he was sorry and he made her steak same which is which would be incredibly value in the value of apocalypse you know like cow meat with all the resource intensive aspect that goes into raising cows and stuff like these he probably could have sold that for a lot of cash or whatever they use as currency and that thing and like that's like that's a big apology and he says he's sorry I was drunk I didn't mean it you know I hope you come back safe I don't want anything bad to happen to you here's some fucking steak ass sandwiches yeah these are expensive I'm not going to brag about it and and and deli's like you have fuck you piece of shit and he gives it away and like wow ellie you're already a fucking asshole well in fairness if he if Seth had killed her father figure and killed one of the best friends and beaten the shit out of her and her and who's pregnant if you might have forgiven him then that seems to be her requirement oh yeah yeah can I also point out that the scene when you actually see Seth say the bad word it's like 20 hours in the game and you don't really care like well because the steaks have been raised way higher than someone saying something mean like okay what did he say was it was it I'm not sure no loud mouth like but at that point like the player has already seen Abby try to kill Dina has already seen ellie kill a whole lot of people and by that time you got an old guy that says it's like oh how quaint what's doubly bad about that scene I message smaller today when I was re watching the stream because I got so so mad at ellie when Joel comes up to defend her and then she's like piss off you know I need you to do and I'm like wow I just I don't care if you die like you're a shitty person I don't like you I have no investment in you ellie and this is just all getting shit on again interestingly Joel's in character as a response of just being a wounded puppy dog because he loves it he's like why yeah why it's so all I've ever wanted to do is do good things for you all I continually do is do good things for you and you just shed all over me I feel like this is developing into another abusive relationship and she'd never told Joel that she was gay because Joel in the previous flashback was talking about getting my guy you know Jesse on and settling down maybe and she's like no no no I'm also saying Joel lady didn't know so when Joel found out that she was gay because of that guy calling her a loudmouth dike in the dance and him coming to a defense with that she tells him to fuck I'm like wow Joel is so Joel should have saved that fucking zebra is yeah I agree to that you start to when you zoom out enough and then you start to like change the whole premise of the fucking game and remove all of their ideas about what they wanted to do imagine just concepts of like you fast forwarded like 10 15 years and they're still you know fighting together at least maintaining stuff they have to go on some adventure and she's built herself up she's she's fit she's relatively strong and she's essentially taking the role like like he's going with it for this adventure whatever but he's in his what like being his late fifties sixties yeah and so yeah he's going with it because he loves her and stuff but like she's the she would be the essentially the fighter while he's more trying to keep up you know in a respectful way because a 60 year old can still fucking pack a punch probably but I like like we could have gotten that game and like the you know the campaign is essentially her making sure he's okay as opposed to the reverse like there's just different ideas you can run with but they they went with that one one of the most interesting ideas I think that they could have run with with Abby especially at the beginning is we saw the world that Abby comes from the Seattle that she comes from and outside of the stadium it's just death so what would it be like for somebody to come out into a rural area where a bunch of survivors are banding together and creating a community that is working in harmony with each other safe electricity meat water clothing food sandwiches the biggest sandwiches for everyone sandwiches they can't get rid of them yeah but seeing how these people aren't savages in her savage world and then exploring that element of this sort of society has grown away from her violent world away from her revenge written world and you know crazy religious cult world but no let's just club into death with a golf club in the first two hours. Some people would be like why are the golf clubs in the mountains it seems like a weird place so they can play golf on the slopes it's always like well when it's summer it would make sense right it's like I don't know that place to I don't know it seems very mountainy but yeah okay this just golf club is fine I don't know why they needed it to be a golf club you know it's like did you think they really wanted to just hole in one Joel that was like a really big desire just punch him to death like Abbey has been punching people to death he should literally pop heads off to him there's theories about the golf the why it was a golf club from it's you know it's kind of like a symbol of you know affluent male power to Trump being you know particularly into his golf and that's I don't know about that I think some of it might be reaching I think it was just a weapon to use but you just never know when you got a bunch of fucking lefties I wanted to do it with a really awkward sort of item like a tennis racket cheese grater cheeseburger yeah can you imagine like Abbey with a cheese grater you stupid old man what what are you going to do with those looking ball in a cup she has to kill him with that like okay I've only got this rubber baseball bat it's just squeaks every time she hits him okay um we should probably get on cover in videos I think we're actually already two hours already it's just yeah this is a lot of this is what we call holy shit time fucking flies because there's so much to go over oh I just have to say again the last of us do is a shit onion like every layer you peel there is more shit like but I have to say that it has to be said like I'm reviewing footage of for my script it's like I didn't notice that and people in the chat here are saying like what Az said about Mel being pregnant it's like oh shit he's right Mel suddenly inflated and like three weeks yeah yeah Mel wasn't pregnant when they killed Joe she had a top on it with she had a flat stomach three weeks seven months pregnant so someone said they didn't believe bigot sandwich was real it's real it's real folks it's real it gets sandwiches it gets sandwiches I thought the funny thing is when she gave Jesse the bigot sandwiches is like cool I love this fucking steak it's like we mentioned earlier that seems like pristine content that's the kind of thing you really want but it came from a bad person so no oh ok then there's several problems with that statement I mean a lot of people make decisions like that yeah people can be I mean the fact that he actually apologized the next day and wasn't like hey I meant what I said the other night do I want to crack open this can of worms again oh do you want to say what do you want to say come on Theo come on I don't like the apology I can see why not Abby fucking Ellie same person wouldn't buy it I'm not saying it was necessarily a terrible apology but I can absolutely see the rationale of saying no fuck your apology that's like the two modes that we all run at though right like there's the outward courtesy and then there's do you actually think they believed it like that's that's a and he did the first part and what she's supposed to do in response the first part is do courtesy like alright I acknowledge that that was the action you just committed to in public like it's it's the kind of thing that you're supposed to whether or not she believes in his heart of hearts that he's actually apologizing for what he did because that's what we all do again courtesy is the word that I think I would be going with and it only makes you as an audience be like oh alright she's just like now fucking for we know I'm gonna play devil I'm gonna play devil's advocate just because but for all we know he could be like god dammit we're trying to create a civilization here and now we've got two women off the market this well I mean as much as that could be a reason doesn't mean he has to call it loudmouth bags hmm yeah he should have rented ladies you're diminishing the gene pool or something he should be going alright more for us no less for us oh damn he's fucked the opposite effect would happen shouldn't she reject the sandwiches if she's rejecting the apology she takes them for the sake of Tommy's wife tells her to take Tommy's wife takes up for her sake not for his yeah she grew up I think she takes the sandwiches and just sticks throws you know basically rams them on Ellie and then Ellie just dumps someone to Jesse but I don't know I don't I'd have to rewatch the scene but I got the impression that he felt a little bit embarrassed because he was drunk I thought I was earnest and it's certainly the act of him giving sandwiches that are valuable is you know that's I mean that means something that's an action but Rags is it really that valuable when at the farm like Dina and Ellie have so many fucking sheep well listen if it was a zebra sandwich we would have known very fucking the tradition of giving a zebra sandwich maybe it was zebra that's just it it could have been a zebra sandwich and that's what it meant he misspoke he meant to say stripe sandwiches instead of because as we know zebra meat is striped oh my god I mean that only makes sense anyway let's do it alright because otherwise we're gonna watch today guys hey the first one's seven minutes and I think there's probably gonna be more than one stream on the last of us I think this one will be the fun laid back one because we're not covering any provocative videos from what I understand these ones are just like hey this is why I liked it and so we can we can discuss but I know I've already been shown the title of Cosmodor Sword and I was like oh oh yeah uh oh we will cover that one eventually oh my god so remember that unlike the people who wrote the last of us too we here on EFAP we know how to structure things that's why we began this video explaining exactly why we hate the game and all the horrible horrible things about it right at least some of them oh there's definitely more we haven't mentioned yet oh yes so now we just keep that in mind as we progress forward yeah obviously there'll be some points that maybe we'll just go oh refer to the conversation we've already had so there you go uh is everyone jumping in I only see three names what the fuck I'm in oh wait let me click the link wow it's okay I'm in daddy you'll forgive me that's the lesson of the last of us too right you haven't killed anyone like I don't have to give small things like bigot sandwiches he's eating bigot sandwiches cats versus invisible wall oh it's a thrilling video have you got a problem with cats the fuck I do no because they're not killing my family and they have to forgive them afterwards here take these these are cat sandwiches aww hey that was a jewish they's a jewish cat so here we go is everyone in because this has full name it doesn't mean oh yeah I'm seeing full hey the good things coming up oh no it's the dog oh my god already can everyone see the videos come up I got a black screen hold up there I got a title I think it's loading it's being a little slow slow I got it Mar I'm just going to say the aftermath of this is going to be interesting already before we start the video I'll do a little preamble to make sure we understand what's happening hopefully the video do you say it was up for you rags or just a black screen um I've got it I've got the last of us part 2 dunk view so I mean it was in the title of this stream I don't know how you missed it in week ed war I guess he did look he likes to joke like yeah dunk my my view of dunky was back in the day playing legal legends he'd be a fun dude to watch some videos about legal legends on who would just do ones on different I guess characters just funny gameplay and stuff it's a fun rat song thingamajigs yeah it was all very lighthearted but then do you remember the specifics on this theory like why did he did he get banned temporarily from the game yeah he got banned because you know flaming and chat constantly kind of deal yeah I know chat you can't see the video because we're not fucking looking at it yet we're talking can't see video that is being played you're right okay chill out I'll get it on screen as soon as we start but uh yeah he got he got banned did he get him unbanned but he took it as like a too much of a slight sort of thing um I don't know if he ever got unbanned I don't remember so long ago now well um I didn't ask if you guys could see I was asking if everyone in the fucking coal could see it you gotta get that set up first that's the way your voice inflection was on you guys I just didn't even know my bad you'll see it in a moment don't worry uh so yeah so then he moved into just doing any content he wanted to do which was it was pretty cool made lots of different videos he's very comedy focused but um a lot of people started to appreciate that um under the comedy it was a lot of really good points he would make some points that were like oh shit that's actually very true like about how and why we enjoy games and what the game is achieving this is what it's not but um unfortunately as time went on uh you if he was appreciated for really like potentially insightful point everyone would would cheer and then if everyone was like oh that point was kind of lacking because it kind of ignores both of us and people would be like uh it's a comedy channel yeah it's like oh comedy channel but like a lot of people usually talk about how comedy is usually derived from like a truth often time they a lot of comedy is based on us going like oh fuck that is true yeah oh yeah airplane food is bad yeah I can relate to that and so um you know I'm sure there's gonna be jokes in the video that may not be funny but there's also gonna be points and unfortunately for donkey oh fortunately just point of view uh this video got uh downvoted more so than I think ever usually happens for his video the ratio really surprised me because donkey that that sort of aspect of like it's just for fun usually uh gets him through just fine but like this I think this one's just too much of a controversial subject uh obviously I've covered him previously with uh with ukulele I thought he did a really bad job covering that game but at once again I got comments like you do get the donkeys a comedy channel right it's like all right well so doesn't that mean I should be laughing then oh well and this is the thing uh we're having fun here too so if anyone says wow you have took him seriously I'd be like no you're taking us seriously we're here for comedy so uh how you lose we win got him lol lol um and yeah that's about it it'll be interesting to see his perspective on the game it's only seven minutes and it's uh I guess pissed off a couple people so let's just see what he says I suppose oh my god now it's on screen chat can you see it can you lol punishing chat or are you like for the shave chat chat is peepo peepo sad face like all good things come in twos jaws to garfield to neck to so obviously last was destined to be a masterpiece until the plot got leaked then the internet decided that this game was no good these spoilers basically show you that the game yeah the plot leaks were fucking shit yeah so like they were I could absolutely see why people hated the fuck out of the leaks absolutely this will be turned into number one I guess the nature of leaks and the nature of judging a thing based on leaks like hmm yeah the cause I think people oh yeah sorry moller go ahead well I'll let you go after this I swear there's like unfortunately we're in a climate right now where um the game of thrones leaks if anyone remembers those I read out some of them after episode 4 and 5 I believe and then I read all of them and I was like there's no way this is fucking true and then it was and it was worse in the actual show it was like Jesus Christ then Rise of Skywalker we read all of them it was pretty bad saw the film and it was arguably worse than the leaks again but the leaks were pretty fucking bad too there was some stuff they didn't keep from the leaks um and then of course we have this and as far as I'm aware the leaks are 100% one to one like there's no mistakes anything that was leaked was pretty much just like well not I mean narrative wise I don't I don't but as far as I'm aware I think the only just not discrepancy but the only thing was people weren't sure if Ellie died at the fight with Abby in the theatre right right and they thought Dina did die but that was the only kind of little wobble in the leaks and so um if you're a person who's like we should wait until it comes out and the leak says you know in the new episode of Simpsons Homer fucking shoots himself in the head because he's tired of being hungry you'd be like that sounds really fucking stupid and someone says wait for the episode to come out it's like I don't have to wait for the episode to come out to say that sounds really fucking stupid yeah I think we're judging the leaks not the product I think people can absolutely go I'm not going to play this game because they killed off a character I think they're totally justified in that um and or like not playing through the story or judging the story being bad because of that particular aspect I don't really have to go I would caution being like it is bad and then he's like you are talking about the leaks right because you can't be talking about the game yet the leaks yeah but I mean if someone typologically was like this is apparently what the leaks are so I'm fucking not buying this game it sounds like shit like that's that's like I guess my limit because if someone was like no the game is definitely bad and you're like based on what the leaks is like but they might not be true there's always a chance oh yeah and I don't know if anyone I don't think if you pressed anybody on you know so the game itself is bad and you know that for certain they'd be like no it's based on the leaks yeah but the leaks I was there when 4chan leaked it I really had the fun time with the golf edits like Jesus Christ that when I saw what they were doing with the character in that way I was like I don't really have any hopes for this game I think people are justified in not buying it because of the leaks and it's also how trustworthy the sources are I think you do have a point that judging the whole game based on the leak I think that's a fair thing to say yeah yeah and of course it depends on who's leaking it and if it's an ex disgruntled employee like oh god we're very concerned now because that's probably very credible I mean my initial reaction was I'm not happy with the leaks I'm not gonna buy the game at the moment if somebody that I trust plays the game reviews the game and says yeah you know although these leaks are true you've got to play it because the manner in which it happens actually is really good then I would you know then I would get the game and then you know ended up getting it because bloody critical drinker wanted me to do it but but otherwise I wasn't you know just wouldn't have purchased the game at all just would not have purchased it just to make sure what point he's making specifically because I might actually agree with him at this point I'm not sure and the internet decided that this game was no good these spoilers basically show you that the game is not worth buying this game is shaping up to be a complete dumpster fire dude like people are canceling their pre-orders left and right I won't I think that's fair yeah that sounds accurate yeah yeah you're a you're more welcome in my mind to cancel it when you've got huge concerns over it being something you would never fucking enjoy like that's perfectly reasonable I think yeah the leakers a goddamn hero who saved a lot of people money well unfortunately we live in a culture that's just like bye bye bye bye bye like it's like wait give it a day maybe see see how everyone's reacting to it I don't know give it two days three maybe yeah you know like pre-ordering is all over the fucking place and it's pre-order games by the way yeah don't stop stop fucking doing that and stop it's really times like this where I think it sobs up the consumer a little bit like oh fuck the thing I've already purchased might not be something I enjoy and you sit in there like mm-hmm maybe you should wait for the product and say yeah how about that yeah we won't be buying Last of Us 2 you have betrayed the fan base I don't even that I think is a pretty reasonable statement too based on if the as long as you clarify if the leaks are true the thing I would signpost is the in the case of leaks things like reading or plot synopsis and like scenes out of context or full context is not the same experience as like the first-hand thing it's intended for sure I guess it depends on how how detailed the leaks were because I don't I haven't actually seen them I don't know what exactly was leaked was it just was it clips was it script there was clips of some scenes and I remember seeing like just people posting synopsis of what goes down throughout the entire game the entire game but there were misinformation there as well like they thought you know it was killed people thought that Abby was the trans person but that's kind of interesting to think about right because I heard that another piece of misinformation was that I need to suck easy and worked on the game in any way shape or form Neil Druckman said that's not true I think it was that he was inspired like he was a fan of her well either way right they're not cleaning this like no dog don't get to be like see those rumors they were false therefore this whole thing is like but you guys false advertised so yeah that's let's be honest you saw that picture of Abby where she's holding the golf club you could easily be forgiven for thinking that was the trans character oh yeah yeah because doesn't look like a woman that does not look like a fucking woman I agree I agree with that if he people thought that I think that's the least of the fucking gotchas that they could use on people and I think when very purposely made Abby completely asexual and non-feminine and so it falls advertising aspect that's really should be super concerning for a lot of people with how things were portrayed and advertised in detail all of these things and I really don't want to understate it fucking bad I was shocked when I saw it because I didn't know anything about the marketing I stayed away from it specifically because I kind of like doing that with a lot of content I consume with exceptions of course Rise of Skywalker I thought it was fucking hilarious to explore it with everything we do because how could the sequel trilogy even end well at this point but of course the angle of just like you leakers and you Chinese whisperer sort of situation where everybody goes like oh this thing happens because I heard this thing happens and then embellishes it and so on I'll be like you still don't get to be on the high horse for it with the fucking way that at one point they apparently confirm that you only play as Ellie in the game well before the game was released Druckmann did say in an interview about two years before the game that Ellie's the only playable character in the game like damn really okay and the fact that the game and he even said himself the game wouldn't work without Ellie and Joel that's why they're bringing both the characters back funny I mean I guess you're technically correct you can't really have Joel getting beaten by a goldblub without Joel so true but again in the end when Joel was gone the game didn't work so yeah correct I suppose let's continue with these clips I don't want to fucking play it anymore and it's quite fitting that both Halo 5 is dark shit and so is Last of Us 2 so if someone says it's true we've done it Last of Us 2 is shit I'd be like we don't know that yet it looks silly but they might nail it it's almost semantics at this point because I imagine if I said that I'm assuming this was made about the leaks and if I said that to him he'd be like oh yeah I mean if it is one to one with the leaks then it's gonna be shit and that's I guess the only clarification you really need and this is why you have to actually play a video game before you start talking yeah I don't give a shit what critics say I just don't really give a shit so yeah what's the implication there that because the critics have given it an average score of 95 that all those people were wrong is that what you're saying yeah also I haven't played it I haven't played it and I think I have a lot of very valid criticisms so that's Metacritic Last of Us 2 I'm actually glad that Drinker made me play it because I thought it was gonna be bad and was correct but you just don't appreciate how fucking miserable the game is unless you play it no color me is misery absolute misery to play color me cynical but I think there's a reason why he cropped that image you know I'm thinking that there is as well maybe we'll show it like later I don't know maybe yeah I mean obviously I'm just reacting as we go but if the like I said the argument the implication of the argument there is that you have like you know five people saying this game will be shit based on the leaks which like I said will be reasonable you can conclude some stuff but you have to have caveats like if it turns out to be accurate to this but then he's like ha you were all wrong I'd be like well now what bothers me about this is donkey made a video shitting on critics I guess that oh wait wait the critic review video is about people actually having to play video okay it's consistent yeah yeah yeah I think he was shitting on Crash Bandicoot review and it says at the end the guy didn't finish playing Crash Bandicoot no of course and if someone said to me do you think someone should play a game before judging a game I'd be like well yes and then it's like simultaneously though do you think someone can actually talk about the writing ideas of a story in a game without having played the game rather they've only consumed the entire story through some other medium I'd be like I mean why not yeah and what's the difference between like if you had someone who made a review of a game and instead of playing it for 50 hours they watched 50 hours of gameplay hmm how would that affect their perception of they should be able to comment on mechanics but I suppose game feel is something that they would have trouble being able to yeah there's some things that they probably wouldn't be able to get accurate but I bet the vast majority of it they get spot on make some accurate calls he army the video about life is strange and he never played it he just got footage about and he talked about the story I remember that and so and by the way I want to clarify his point is bad either way because if he had shown a score of let's say 10 metascore from all critics would he then have to concede ah you see you shouldn't play a game before reviewing it because it probably will turn out to be accurate I'd be like no even if the game turned out to be godawful which it did it wouldn't matter that those people were saying the game will be awful guaranteed based on leaks like either way that's not exactly the best way to go about it like in terms of talking about what the final product is versus what the leaks were it reminds me of all the fact that some of the reviewers have actually come out and said we were under pressure to give it a good score Oh absolutely absolutely there are yeah I wholeheartedly believe that trust a fucking word anyone on these sites says not the players or the metascore from the critics because if someone's like I trust the players more than the critics or the critics more than the player I just be like I just find them interesting pieces of information I try not to take them too much into account when it comes to whether or not a thing is good I do find it interesting when a critic and audience score is very split I hate the lot of it I hate all of the sites like this because a player can just come along never touch the game watched maybe like a couple of cutscenes goes on this gives it a 0 out of 10 or a 10 out of 10 and yeah I wanted to bring up that if you remember one of the Twitter back and forth arguments I had with Cosmo he said that all the stormtroopers act stupid in A New Hope and I was like they're trying to let the heroes escape the whole time and then his response to that was in the original draft that wasn't actually the case and so if the original draft was leaked I was like oh my god there was a stupid elements in the story and then the completed version shows up the whole script and of course that would result in something like well you'd say something as stupid as Cosmonaut said and you would be creating some kind of inaccuracy but it's so bizarre that we're trying to clarify all of these things like well yeah it's not about make sure you play the game before you talk about the game it's just make sure you know what you're talking about right that's it just do your best to know what you're talking about know what you don't know as well we all make these mistakes and a lot of people are very unhappy with the leaks I guess it's the point and also keep in mind I think there there might be something to say the fact that everybody is calling the easiest mode game journalist mode how we arrived at the point where that's what people call it so what point that out by stream what I called it journalist mode so many times over and I kind of forgotten that that's not what it's called yeah that's a meme sorry I have never seen a group so openly reviled as game journalists like seriously we played that clip of the spongebob thing on when John CJGK was so fucking awkward it's like this puzzle is impossible like I can't complete it so plucky it's like dude just walk backwards just a little bit how do any of them have jobs anyway of course these guys are small potatoes now me I'm the dude off of Ratatouille you can get past these guys but the only way to get past me is to put Donkey Kong in the game what sucks about always putting out great stuff is that people come to expect the impossible from you the original last about okay that's the real last one great chill out yeah this was a very good game one that has been very influential on this generation of story driven games however compared to this game it is like a dog's chew toy uncharted 4 took last of us and slam dunked it into the fucking garbage can bigger more interesting story with better acting performances better combat music puzzles crash bandicoot and all of these different types of traversal so how do you top uncharted 4 well you don't in that game you get a grapple hook and last of us part 2 you open 155 I know we're all quiet because I'm trying to pull what I'm supposed to get out of this because none of us are laughing so I can really gathers he's saying there was a lot of expectation which I agree with but I'm not going to allow that as an excuse much like I wouldn't allow TLJ to get away with well it was the sequel to TFA you know that's a tough thing to be I'm rather suspicious of his opinion on child 4 but yeah it's like how do I turn the words he's saying into like useful thoughts in my brain and I don't really know how to do that also is he saying the uncharted 4 is like unbeatable I don't know I think it's pretty good I guess yeah yeah he likes it I haven't played it so I can't really comment on anything he's saying yeah I hope the game is fucking great I haven't played it but I'm very biased against games like that incredibly biased the funny thing is I bought MAPS 4 right and uncharted 4 comes with it and I never touched it it's just I guess we'll see what he has to say here alright uncharted is mysterious and exciting oh what did you say sorry I was just setting this laugh a minute video well I mean what might be said we might get 7 but he's gonna have to make up for a lost time someone someone could argue well you're already biased against this you're not gonna find it funny I was like well okay I mean no I don't give a shit about Donkey I'm just well that's why I was set up like I don't know this person this is the first video I've ever seen of that this is my first I mean I would advocate that Donkey first can be funny that's all I'm reasonably entertained by this his old videos are still funny man there you go rounding approval there open 150 filing cabinets uncharted is mysterious and exciting with a knockout ending last of us is gross and horrific it is a barrage of violence and screaming and cruelty is that what the game looks like is this like I don't remember your footage looking this bad maybe it was because I was playing it at like 480p or something so I could play games and stuff and watch it without a framerate hit and so it learned how bad it looked or at least a good looking game is lost I mean yeah I thought lots of it looked good yeah maybe it's just clip in particular just like that I don't think it looks very good when the player has control and is animating well it depends what his capture rate would be in the bit rate on the capture as well these are like textures and like look at the anti-aliasing around the character and the lighting of the Zed zombies as they're rushing to her I was if someone told me this is no this was pre-alpha footage she was like oh okay I explained that but I just don't remember your stream looking this bad it might just be the lighting on something I don't know pretty damn fun Naughty Dog continues to build upon their hide and seek style of combat you can now crawl through grass set traps trick zombies into attacking your enemies and head can you trick zombies to attacking enemies in the first game I think so I'm not sure yeah you'd throw a bottle don't you I could have sworn that was a thing also watching this gameplay 30fps hurts my brain crank up that fidelity yeah I mean the prone thing never impressed me I was just like oh okay I can prone I mean some of that market features were prone and a jump got them like come on yeah it's not as if prone's new to us that's just it I mean they were just like oh we've got great new features for Lost of Us 2 you can jump someone's taking jump yeah I think just like that people are saying you could in the Lost of Us 1 DLC but not in the main game that's right it's just like these but these anyway regardless these aren't new for gaming I don't think someone would say the DLC doesn't count I'd be like well of course it does so yeah it seems like a progression they're like yeah okay let's add this mechanic we'll carry it on to the second game it seems like what you do is back people with your silenced pistol this isn't Metal Gear 5 levels of flexibility it's a far more game like game than the original it's a far more game like game than the original do you say there's more mechanics in it? I guess that's true I just think the mechanics aren't as smooth I guess maybe they've scaled up their ambition but a lot of it I feel like my playthrough I just spot loads of mechanics fighting each other at different times and obviously the the AI but so for example it would be like is it more of a game than Tetris because Tetris is kind of limited on its mechanics I don't know about that I don't know that's how we do that is that how we do that? I would just be like okay moving on levels are massive with tons of branching paths some of the encounters in this game that's not true there's not that many there's a couple of open spaces there's that one open area and that is it other than that it's linear absolutely 100% linear let's just think of a grid of 3x3 houses you start on the bottom right and you have to get to the top left and it's like look how interesting you can approach that top left place from multiple angles I'd be like okay like why are we praising that for something that's like some of the most basic shit like oh you can go through all the bottom row of houses all the top row of houses wow 2020 it's one of those like okay you know like we had this back in decades ago so like yeah good I guess you could explore a little bit but the game just seemed very very linear it's just that at the start of the game when you arrived in Seattle it teased a more open sort of game because you found little things in buildings which sent you to the synagogue to pray to Neil Cokman and then when you went on past that area as soon as you went past that area it went as linear as you can get it just went one route one way to get there any sort of branching avenue you just run down dead end stop and over back you go straight down the linear progression so no it it didn't it didn't open up at all well I don't even know that this is the kind of game that lends itself to that anyway when I was playing it just felt like faux open world it's like I know that there's one thing I'm supposed to do and then I go back on my linear trail like this is all bullshit of course you go into each building you open up each of the cabinets you find you know a holster or you know I'm talking about significant upgrades that will happen but again it just I'm just like there's some bits I think I missed because I wasn't sure where the the game sort of invisible walls where I just sort of guess I was like oh I probably can't go out there which I did a couple of times in all fairness to this game I was like oh this is not gonna let me do this and I was like oh it did let me do this wow but there were plenty of times where I was like you fucking serious I can't do this and it happens in a lot of games like this where say for example it's like we need to get over there it's like oh I can step over that it's like no like oh okay I'm gonna I'm gonna take the take the position that Gears of War 5 did open world better than the last of us too did no question about it I Gears of War 5 had two large open world sections open-ish world sections where you had this this sailboat skimmer and you could go around to different places doing all kinds of optional objectives and getting the upgrades from them which gave you meaningful rewards and excellent upgrades and abilities and it was a gorgeous looking game it ran well and I think they executed these sequences really uh really excellently we get it Ellie's gay we get it fucking how we get it gee I would also argue it's detrimental to the game because a lot of people are just like I want to know what happens next where am I supposed to go as opposed to I will search out this whole area and naturally find the items I need and then proceed to the next place I need to go because I found the you know searching takes a fucking while the one I was referring to is there was this place where there was a street and then there was a building on the left and a building on the right and if you had just gone forward it activated a cutscene but I went to the left and it was this building where I cleared out all the bottom rooms, went up a staircase cleared out the top rooms and there was a cutscene where I went to the workbench and got attacked by four like bandits killed them, went into another room and the room had a safe and the safe was like oh you can get the code by looking at um the date of our anniversary negative well obviously negative the years that it's been since get the code open the thing and then I went outside I checked uh there was another way to get into the building and I was like oh interesting I guess you could have come in this way I wonder how that would have worked with the bandits or whatever open up every drawer they go to the side of the street search out that building I was like right now to move forward cutscene I was like wow so someone could have skipped like 50 minutes of the game just by walking forward it's kind of amazing to me I guess I don't know how I feel about it in terms of like I don't know if it was detrimental for them yeah but what did what you got out of that was just um pick up more resources well that's the thing I was overflowing with resources for the whole game so nothing interesting to to there's no there was no incentive to explore because there was nothing good to explore and fine I had to quite push myself to explore back to gears five when I when I played that game with a co-op buddy especially I said listen we need to go and do these objection objection stuff optional objective these optional objectives optional objectives you get legit really good rewards for doing them and on high difficulties they they they legitimately make the game easier because they give you useful abilities for your robot guy to do so I'm like yeah we're gonna we're gonna do these they're nice and short they're not really that far away and you know it's fun to fight people so wow I didn't though I didn't think this would turn into me kind of praising gears five but you know thanks last of it here we are sprawling and complicated that they hate the word sprawling people rely on it all the time to describe a map that goes in multiple directions sprawling it's accurate over a large area in an untidy or irregular way yeah I guess that wouldn't apply to um untidy but not irregular because it is a city but if you're talking about design I thought by untidy it means like you splash buildings and all over the place as opposed to the as they would be in real life you know and if you mean literally like the rooms are untidy supposed to apocalypse I'd be like well yeah yeah that's I'd say aesthetically untidy because this is a really weird brainwave but I believe many people describe the casino level in ukulele and their reviews as sprawling and I was like the casino is neither untidy or irregular it's very much like it's exactly as a casino would be but it's such a it's a nice word to throw into video to describe something as sprawling it's just like damn that sounds cool it like it's one of those words that you're not I feel like it's not necessarily being used for its actual like definition it's being used for the sense it provides and like yeah what person would like you hear that something is sprawling and that puts a picture in your mind as to what it will be like to navigate in terms of large in scale and complex like that's what people consider sprawling to almost mean easy to get lost in like in either sense I guess lost in as in literally don't know where to go or lost in as in you know immersed yeah I guess that was just a pet peeve could be tackled in 20 different ways eventually though you are going to get caught enemies can spot you pretty easily and that's when you gotta throw a mile at them enemies can spot you pretty easily they can also lose you pretty easily they seem to lose you shockingly easily especially humans the human NPCs are dumb as a well yeah I mean I would argue the humans have worse sight than the fucking zombies do they were blind where did he go it must have been the wind cause when I feel um cause I think about when I think about my fondest stealth game experiences this game I don't just watching it now by playing it and I'm like man like this ain't anything like a day sex human revolution this isn't anything like fuck even Metal Gear Solid 5 or another good example would be or a Splinter Cell oh well the less people searching for it the easier it is to wait sorry what no it's just one of those weird things I see where someone's pointing a gun at you and they just don't pull the trigger oh there's a lot of that in this game do you guys see the pot where I was coming at somebody with the fucking pickaxe and he had a gun and he went don't something like that oh no oh yeah I saw that I was just like what in the world dude someone asked a question should it be like those games rags like well if by those games good then yeah it should it doesn't have to be yeah that kind of it should be good like those other games are it needs to do the right things to properly create the kind of fantasy it's trying to sell and it doesn't because it's AAA game there's an interest in that sort of thing yeah and if you're trying to sell me on a very realistic world that has you know graphics of this caliber and is trying to present a story like this then if I think man these enemies are idiotic NPCs or a Stumbas Bricks boom there's your disconnect sure that's when you gotta throw a mile at someone and run for cover the less people searching for you the easier it is oh she just she's like don't that's not a good animation I wouldn't have cleared that this is why I would often shoot everybody looking for me the combat is fucking brutal when you stab somebody blood squirts out of their neck the shotgun will just destroy someone's entire body man have you ever played a game not like that guy you showed oddly yeah have you guys ever played a game when you shoot an enemy with a shotgun and it destroys them like it just together the other day true but I feel like this you're more pressed to find a game that doesn't do that because even if you go back to resident evil for the shotguns felt so powerful yeah oh well why would you use dynamite bow and fucking randy what a waste you needed a clip wanted to see what it does okay maybe the clip yeah I agree I actually needed a clip enemies cry out for their fallen camera to beg for their lives enemies cry out if all the combat all right I guess this will be our um yeah I guess this could be our discussion about those two mechanics so it got funny it got funny though I've mentioned this I feel like this will be the third time for people who've watched all the last two stuff I did but this is free fap so it's different um we'll take the calling out names first I guess so if you don't know whenever you kill an NPC it's like a one out of three chance or some shit that another NPC will shout their name and the one that most people remember from the playthrough was Aber yeah uh yeah they just they shouted it of course the one I definitely remember was where they went Chris I was just saying Chris I feel like damn it they got Chris and you know all that stuff oh poor Chris and so this tied with the other thing we're going to talk about is uh more of an indication to me of paying lip service to a sense of depth they specifically put these in at very low effort to have people like donkey comment on it as such a like really great mechanic something that just man they are breaking rules they are pushing gaming forward um because it doesn't go further than that they simply shout their name and then they die there's nothing else to it and we've had a few suggestions over the course of saying imagine a group of five if you kill one and the other one you know shouts their name and then starts like crying and panicking and shout saying no and then grabs their body and picks them up even though like their head could be fucking blown off doesn't matter and they're just sitting there distraught while the actual fight continues and you'll just that's what you could see if you want to you could look over it and be like Jesus another person gets mad and just charges you or something yeah you motherfucker that would be good but the thing is if that were present I still think we would have criticisms in terms of how it all functions it would probably be mistakes but it would be like this is a pretty good step forward having them shout their name I can see what they're going for and it seems more inventive and creative from you know a design perspective instead of just they just shockingly obviously always call out people's names and that's that the wind it stood out to me while I was watching how often it happened yeah it started to get really funny I know what you guys are doing you're just lazy with it well it's like the zebra it's the zebra there's a lot in this game that I think can have its own section on what's probably going to end up in my video right like the emotional manipulation and the shallow as a puddle but trying to look as deep as an ocean that's their goal yes I said this on the after party stream but if you're going to do something like this for that kind of effect I think your game needs to be a lot more structured and like even more on rails like you can't have you cannot have big open sandboxy segments where you're taking out big groups because that adds redundancy to the kind of up to that element and that cheapens it immensely because they're going to be able to take it seriously past that point they needed some development of the main character because Ellie in this game is a fucking wet blanket agreed she doesn't feel shit she just constantly looks like a deer in the headlight this is why the first game works so well we've got an odd couple in that Ellie is this cocky and fun loving you know little ass of a teenage girl who's teamed up with this gruff silent no-nonsense veteran man and so you put them together and she's chipping away at him in the whole game and it's the most endearing shit in this game you have hey babe the holocaust is bad and then silence on the other end you're like okay and then out of the game and in in the last of us two is there any difference narratively or statistically for what you get and stuff if you don't kill people as opposed to if you do I don't think so because I feel like sometimes they'll drop a bullet but of course you would have spent a bullet to do that so you know and I'm thinking from a narrative perspective if you had the option to stealth past everybody and you did the extra time and effort and work to stealth around everybody who wasn't especially who wasn't like a direct threat to you or you didn't have any sort of conflict with or maybe something yeah and this is what cuckman sort of teased that because there's like there'll be consequences to your actions and as much as could you know if you hear somebody crying out the name of person that you've killed how will that affect you and all that kind of stuff but the game didn't allow you to make that choice the game didn't want you to kill everybody well I can imagine I know this is nuts and this is never gonna happen but imagine halfway through the game if you had stealthed up to that point there's a narrative reason to be captured by the scars or whatever you have several scars advocating that we should just let this fucker go they've only been moving through our camps they haven't done anything apparently they're looking to someone like it's fine and of course you get let go they give you supplies and you move on and they're like look just you know spread the word the scars aren't as bad as they made out to be so you get like an endearing sort of section with them as well as benefits to the narrative and then of course if you'd killed everybody up to that point they do their best I guess I was gonna say I don't know if they can kill you there's gonna have to be something else narratively you can cause to happen maybe they jail you maybe you break out you know you can do lots of different things but yeah the game goes on two different branches one that's going very dark one's going very light and the way games used to do it back in the day was a good ending a neutral ending and a bad ending these choices matter right in the last portions of the game because they don't work too hard on it but these days it's like no rails rails for life baby yeah if I if I was in charge of one of these groups that had like captured Ellie and like you said we found that you know it was like everyone's accounted for we're all good yeah they steal our supplies no they didn't hurt us steal our supplies they just slink and through and be like who are you and what do you want where are you trying to get like what what's your deal what's your story you know but that would have involved you not having to I don't know I guess they really wanted I guess they really felt like they needed to have gameplay with lots of bloody visceral combat in it I don't know games like winter cell and they will reward you the most you're doing the difficult thing which is getting through the level without being seen and without killing anybody they reward you with the most points and stuff for it well I saw someone saying that they were a fan of the last was too pushing me play they were getting really fucking annoyed that I kept getting rewarded for garbage gameplay like I would just be like I'm gonna run in here and kill you boom I'm gonna attack this wall because I know the game will put me on tracks with my melee to immediately teleport to you and kill you and I did that like seven times and I knew that when I first did the strike that hits the wall I was like people gonna think I'm insane and then I do the second strike and it drags me to the but I kill them but I'm just like yay I'm rewarded for being retarded but of course stealth you should definitely be incentivizing the player for stealth that's kind of the point with the choice of approaches run and gun is usually in itself very rewarding because it's just exciting and thrilling to just like reacting to everything on the spot while stealth is like right figure out the patterns make use of resources move very carefully very meticulously and then some guys just like firing a melee minigun while running down the corridor just like and he gets to go through the game faster possibly with more rewards while you get to be like well I'll get there just it takes a lot longer and then you have people be like your consequences well you will experience consequences for your actions like yeah not really the game's core is horrible middle ground of being like both on rails and not on rails in that sense there is a consequence for actions guys it's called playing the last of us in part too well yeah and getting tricked into thinking there's an ending but it's like nope and then you're like oh this is it no oh this is nope you're like oh Jesus I don't have any more of these I can take and there's another thing about the gameplay it's like the gameplay that it's either you hide or you kill people there is no like other option like rags and everyone who's played it know what this is oh so now we're addressing like fundamentals of these types of games dare I say because take like a lot of people's reviews of like the early Fallout games it's like you have about 7000 approaches including talking people down subverting other people into killing people for you guns blazing, stealth everything you can imagine basically and nowadays it's you have one option really but I guess you can do it in slightly different ways but they're going to get you through the game in the exact same way and I'd be fine with that honestly if you sell me on getting me into the character's headspace such that they are wanting to do this and I'm aligned with them and you could argue Doom is another one that's like there's only really one way to go about it but that's fine because Doom is designed to chip everything in a way that just makes that particular line of gameplay the most satisfying it can well this is a game that everything's at odds with itself and it's like you can stealth everywhere why would I though? like imagine Doom had a stealth option where you could hide behind everything and shoot things with silences on I'd just be like why though why on earth could you do this I liked in Wolfenstein the New Order there was a stealth component to it and you could do it if you wanted to it totally optional I liked doing it for a while until you know I messed up or you just wanted to go out guns blazing all of a sudden it worked really well there's a way there are ways to do these but that's where the talent comes in oh we didn't even get to the other part so what he's also displaying is someone's cowering right now this happens in the game when you've I think wiped out everybody in the section except one I'm not sure if you can trigger it in any other way but they basically go like please don't kill me don't do it and if you aim your gun or prepare your weapon they'll trigger themselves into more dialogue like oh god like no please and this again is considered like oh how in depth you're having an NPC beg for their life like that's amazing and first of all I feel like I could probably name a whole bunch of games that have this in casual dialogue like people slowly dying saying oh please no just standard NPC sort of things but um and again I've explained this before but this is eFap so anybody who's only watching these episodes wouldn't have heard this there were two instances that I specifically remember these happening the second instance is the less funny ones I'll do it first the the person entered into this sort of mode and because I didn't believe the game had the balls to back up what it was trying to offer like we can go over this in a second all of you can give you different ideas I didn't expect anything interesting to happen I was like but I'm just gonna go start looking for stuff because whatever I'll reload I'll do whatever I want because I don't believe anything interesting is happening over there and then the guy just went and fell over I was like that tells you everything you need to know about the game and its priorities yeah I was just like yeah wait that's incredibly telling wait wait I never left and I always killed the remaining guy so if you leave him alone he kills himself no no is that some of them right when you're about to kill them like either drop their weapon or they do something they just go please don't kill me and every time that happened I was always stunned for a second because there's one portion of my brain that's like oh is this a video game just gay they don't kill themselves they die he run out of a timer they just die he just fell over he's dead the first encounter was I think even funnier though because they were like this guy it was a girl in the news center or the tv station or whatever and they're on a staircase and again baiting me with depth that I knew it didn't have I aimed my gun at her and she was like oh shit like oh please don't please don't please don't and um I said you can see it in my playthrough I say give me useful information like as if the game could support this like that I would let it go if she gave me something useful and of course nothing happens nothing happens I put the gun down I move back a bit I'm like what now like what are you gonna do game and then she just like stops being in that mode and enters it back into normal NPC mode and she pulls out a pistol and starts shooting again someone in chat guyrim did this I mean maybe to yeah maybe to a basic level and that's that's kind of what I'm getting at that that's all this is stop celebrating games forgiving lip service to depth it's not actual depth it's nothing it's actually kind of worse because it confirms that they were thinking about it and just half-assed it instead of the thought just never occurring they're not interested in the gameplay aspects of that game this is a quarter yeah like theme theme of the story guys let me explore your themes through the gameplay because you can do that gameplay someone might be like well what the fuck would you do mr. genius developer and I'd be like so you can have them hand you like you could bring up a set of four options this is like the next level of complexity option one kill option to tell them to run off like I spare you option three like give me something useful and they could either be like look you know and say whatever your current objective is let's say it's getting Abby it's like I think Abby like went this way she often hangs around in this area it's like I've never you know followed her I don't want anything to do with this just please let me go another option could be like give me resources have you got any ammo have you got anything is there a secret in this area can you take me somewhere that it could be something useful and of course the NBC reacts accordingly to all of these different options if you tell them to run away they just they just simply are told in a path-finding way to exit as far away from the players possible once there's three walls between you and them they can disappear I look option I don't know tell them I'm not looking for a fight yeah like this this is like instead of just being like oh please don't kill me okay I'm killing you again like if you want the pacifist route as an option that's the way you can go but well but like what I just suggested is even hard is it like that's not yeah no not at all that right away like there's something there for the game and the game isn't discussing me that's the frustrating thing about the game it's like it keeps saying that revenge is bad and violence doesn't really solve anything but all you can do in the game is kill people it's as soon as that twigs into your brain you don't care anymore yeah all of this all of this carrying and and foe mercy it's irrelevant because once you understand that the game won't trigger an event without you wiping out the area or won't won't allow you to progress without everyone being killed all this stuff's meaningless yeah so it's just like I don't care if you're screaming out for Dave or Mary or Allison because you're the last eight guys one yeah I need to fucking kill them so that it's just like la la la la la la la kill bang bang bang bang bang bang bang kill now can progress fine you know if you really waste your time I'd probably say the first step as a game designer if you're a game designer and you want to have the player feel bad about killing NPCs is to not have the NPCs be the villains not have the NPCs trying to kill you I mean like that's like I know this is a fucking Nobel last thought but um it's a Nobel no balance of novel I thought you were going to say a Nobel prize or something this game's got me befuddled up in the brain area I just don't have your enemies be evil and terrible I also thought I also thought to eat am I supposed to feel bad about the people that are trying to kill me like it's so yeah so people like to do this argument you feel bad for Joel and Ellie and Abby they've killed hundreds of people in this game so we ignored the context for all of these kills is that what we're doing I guess so it doesn't matter if it was a hundred or one if all of them were in definitive self-defense I don't see why the number would matter if it was all in self-defense game really wants to tell you that these people, they're people too you see they have names and friends but when they're all the best of buddies that really harms it and the game needs to work a fuckload harder to really sell that but you can jump in the game this is why rags fucking hates the game they put less emphasis on jumping which is jumping is such a contextual thing what was the last time you jumped yesterday for what I was walking on the pavement and there was a big line and I got scared by it so I jumped over it no you did, you stepped over it it was too big to step, the long man's legs were not long enough for this particular line it was a chasm you're so long, why didn't you just plank over the top of it or something I jumped yesterday at the gym I was at the gym and I jumped I don't know about that why are we using that argument though you could say that for a lot of people this isn't the argument I'd use jumping is such a ubiquitous thing in games and I think about how many times people jump in real life I mean yeah I just found it a bit awkward in The Last of Us 2 a lot of the jumps I don't know if chat do you remember some of the jumps like auto-track away from where you wanted to jump onto things they thought you wanted to jump on and then they can kill you like that shit was they look really jank and super heavy like the jump is so heavy excuse me but yeah, so I live how long that tangent was and I explained this earlier we start with Donkey saying I like this game and we're all like thumbs up that's cool that is absolutely fine and he goes do you know why and we're like because of how in depth you have these elements where they actually try and make you feel for the enemies you have them calling out for each other as they die you have them cowering in fear when they're the last remaining one and you're still there and then we're like well I don't know how shallow all of this is and then the response to that will often be Jesus Christ guys he was just sharing his opinion well I was just sharing mine so go fight yourself well pretty much I wouldn't want people to take this as like you just can't take that he's got a point I just don't think his point is very accurate or it's not properly representing what we're dealing with in the game and again welcome to like the game I just think that this is a bit of a shallow reason I'd call the point shallow you ask yourself honestly you can put what you want you can play contrarian that's great that's fine it's fun but you've got to ask yourself what? but you've got to ask yourself honestly do you really fucking care that some NPC cries out that Dan's had his fucking dick cut if they've been shooting at me for the past 10 minutes I do struggle to be like oh well I think that's what they were trying to go for like everyone is the hero in their mind that's why you shift to Ellie at the most worstest time ever like in the climax of your game you play another 10 hours to get to that point again like but it's so executed poorly I think I mean I agree with CEO it's like if you're going to do that you're going to try to get the audience to think about what evil they're doing don't make the killing portion of the game the best part of your fucking game like like I don't there was what I showed this clip and I'll show this clip in my video I get a guy and I'm holding him hostage and the dog doesn't do anything to me it's so funny that that shit is funny to me it's like they're what they're doing is actually desensitizing the player to the enemy NPCs who are supposedly also valid that's why they're crying out Amber no not my friend and when you're in like a fist fight sometimes you'll have enemies in the background waiting for it to end and if there are humans you might be able to make the argument of being like well he doesn't want to get in the way of his friend or he might let you know collateral damage but when it's zombie things in fact it's like like what are they waiting for oh no Andy dude that would be fucking great with it the infected going Eric no he was two days away from retirement oh no he's gonna get the high sport or comparison I think is what's your character gonna do your character's gonna come out and go I'm sorry guys can we all sit down and have a chat about this well this is the thing right it's like ooh the game is positing that I might not just kill people what have you got game and the game goes nothing it just it's hand immediately like I didn't think I'd get this far it's your college friend who's just started getting into philosophy it's like you know the NPCs in all the games you play and you're like yeah it's like maybe we like isn't it bad that we just kill them without thinking about it it's like oh I think about it they're trying to kill me and then the guy's immediately like I guess and you know we're enemy soldiers in a war like it's not personal and then of course you make the jokes about like damn is the next Mario game gonna open Mario getting beaten the fuck out by like some Goomba mother and then the rest of the game is the history of this Goomba mother and how her kids were all stomped on by Mario and we're like oh my god see you don't think about the lives of NPCs do you player yeah I do I spent quite a lot of time considering who or what everything was in Dark Souls by his kind of an interesting comparison if you stand still on a Mario land and a Goomba is heading towards you in business reading the newspaper he walks into you dead he violated the NAP some fucking had to do it yeah Mario is really a game about vengeance it's a game about revenge all the grotesque gore that people desire from this type of being taken to such a degree where you go I like the idea that he's talking about like how this is such a cool and a devil that he kills the guy immediately well it's so cool this game is so deep it's so amazing it's like oh that black life didn't matter did it not that one he was trying to kill you so don't count jesus christ in a stroke of absolute why is he shocked at his own actions look at that freestream you can tell which one's the protagonist by how much effort was put into the model oh unfortunate oh oh you big american son joe oh i thought of you honey god do you think you're special oh please danibin danibin muskundiven this is the fucking goofball game isn't it the one where uh this is like a notoriously bad game like renegade or something like that i can't remember rogue warrior or that could be a mickey roe mickey roe voiced it like it is just a notoriously hilarious fucking game we need to play it even though it's probably not double play of it still into such a degree where you go jesus christ in a stroke of absolute jesus they have taken inspiration from the classic game of rogue warrior when ellie kills somebody she'll sometimes call them a swear word dick sleepy time you fucking motherfucker it can't live up to it's mind blowing okay one of the best looking games out there the story is heavily reliant on actors and animators alike to bring these characters to life and yes the actors and animators did a good job i will agree it's a shame that all of that work was wasted in the service of nothing they do some incredible work we've seen all sorts of us cities and video games new york, boston, san francisco kong kong, chicago, los angeles even new york is in some games but it's cool to see a place i'm actually familiar with realized in the game of this caliber seattle you're not familiar with those other places i guess he means like does he live in seattle? i don't know maybe i don't know what he he must mean like he lives there i don't actually know maybe i don't know hey where does he live what the fuck that's supposed to be cheesecake factory this game is ruined blizzards and thunderstorms heighten the tension sunlight pierces through windows of abandoned storefronts trees and currents tear through the city and reinforce imagery of yeah sound design is pretty on point i suppose sounded pretty good apart from the enemy noises they sounded all over the place do you mean because i had an issue with the level of volume and the extent to which they scream oh yeah sometimes that was like weird like louder than gunshots of course yeah and it would just put me on it like ah shut up stop annoying but of course that's explained by the overall goal with the design of this game to be like look it's pain you've caused pain how do you feel here's a mirror it's okay you did this you did the player did this you had no option but you did it well as people pointed out you can't actually complete this game without killing either humans or dogs at some point so because there's a cutscene kill for a dog well a QTE kill for a dog and obviously if you don't do it you lose so like what are you doing game well you're a bad person for that you're bad person for trying to play this game you're like oh okay i guess i will do more all in on abby's mindset if it wants me to kill everyone and not worry a little bit about my character life and beauty slowly rising out of this world of darkness people aren't mad about graphics or gameplay though they're mad about the story so what do i think about this story huh you want to know what i think it's a pretty good story i haven't been this engaged by a video game story since red dead 2 and god of oh the engagement is so difficult to maintain oh yeah i was ready for all these characters to fucking die in a fire and i got i got bored watching you yeah like it's five hours between anything that's that's non just looking in rooms and picking things up like every time and every time that i was like jesus christ game can i have a cutscene now after the cutscene i'd be like oh god like that was yeah less was too devolved into just a collection simulator there's so much collecting just picking shit up picking shit up picking shit up picking shit up it's like fuck off well wait you forgot the part where you read a note that says day one we're surviving day two oh no my mother is ill day three we're all dead yeah there's a lot of notes that basically just run out the same thing we're like we are surviving then we didn't sad face yeah i waited for you you never came i died no that's bad didn't you shed a tear here's a safe combination which is right next to the fucking note okay that's great for there are some bold twist in here but they're all in service story that is still very faithful the spirit of the original it's faithful to the spirit of the original oh i just want to love it tell me what you mean monkey if any means in the most broad surface level way possible people in an apocalypse drama because i can't really do anything with this what you just said how is it yeah well i was just gonna say how can you say it's a good story when none of the fucking characters have been developed well thank you or they're the character what's even worse is when you when you go to abbey the game is in such a fucking rush to go he's abbey he's owing he's owing's girlfriend male male's here but here's look at money man he's got friends friends daddy's here daddy's here oh seraphine here comes the two kids two kids and the two kids just like fucking just calm the fuck down and can we concentrate on just one fucking person like abbey or owing as a couple or whatever yeah that's another thing i hate about the game like every character from abbey side i didn't give a fuck that they died oh me neither i was happy i was pretty elated male was a fucking cunt she could go any fucking time she wanted man so i actually like male just because for the fact that she called out abbey for being a piece of shit every time i saw male i just remember uncle buck where he's just like here's a nickel hire a rat to gnaw that thing off your face all i fucking thought that's all i thought when i saw her man he's just running around going hey i'm a man i am a fucking crossing everyone's the pussy can we talk quickly about man so like chat pretend you know nothing about the last was two i'll so there's this guy and he spits on the corpse of someone you feel a lot for and he he goes you put the peddler fuck you you're like okay so okay so that's you know not off to a great start but what if i told you this man had a dad that he loved and this dad is unable to grab things efficiently because he might have arthritis and so this character looks into it he's like can we get him some help also he's friendly to some people don't you think now that he doesn't deserve to die first it's like yeah you got me he's like oh my god it's just like it's it's the default that people have friends and relatives you know like you're not wowing me by saying that all these people have relatives again like shit i just the university friend who was like don't you realize all these npcs of people and be like dude where have you been loads of fucking meteors covered this already like what do you you have to do something more interesting than oh they're a human it's like yeah you know that the frustrating thing is like when you play through the last of us one and i actually give a shit about the side characters in that game yeah like bill quite a bit yeah i like like henry and sam that that shit got to me like that's the first time that joel actually reacted in a human way i think he related to a loved one dying so the side characters are fucking leagues ahead of the main characters in this game it's like like i also found it funny like when abby like norah was like i'll show you something and you see the corpse of the dead guy that you don't give a fuck about and they're like oh no what's happening it's like what dandy oh no not yeah thank you dany oh no what's his name is dead oh no dany was like my favorite character what the fuck yeah after the last of us two we've we've done this one already many times not dany not not him i am i think if you watch my play through i i assume we killed him as ellie i'm like oh is this one of the people like from wherever or whatever it's like they're all they're like no oh it killed him you're like oh we killed him yeah oh okay i don't know and you know what that is another highlight of abby as a character she doesn't really give a fuck about anyone unless you're live or oh and yeah but friendship with lev is so manufactured it doesn't make a liquor sense because she doesn't give a shit about anyone and then she leaves the kids after they've escaped she's just like yeah here fucking stay in this caravan get out in the morning because there'll be patrols fox off back to to where she wants to be with oh and and shit goes to bed has a dream that the kids are hanging in the fucking forest and wakes up and goes do you know what i think i'm gonna go back and say those kids fuck off not remotely your character in the game at all but what i hate also is that abby is questioning what am i doing here why am i going back probably you shouldn't like it's it's a thing they do about abby like when in the first part of the game when she was like this is a bad idea abby and she goes through with the trying to go to jackson anyway it doesn't endear me when the character knows what she's doing is dumb or she knows what is what she's doing is wrong or weird and she does it anyway it's like she could have got killed by that seraphat patrol it was so big she would have seen all of those people gone oh well fucking dude it's fucking unreal and just turn back that uh they put a knife to her belly ready to cut her intestines out and at the same time some randy was discovered and they had to deal with her first it's like you fucking kidding me right now i told you about interrupting me when we're doing the stomach cut thing smaller smaller they didn't know this is the plot armor is hella thick yeah you know you're absolutely right i thought ellie's plot armor was bad i i knew nothing abby's plot armor is incredible i kind of want to do like a supercut of stacking up everything that happens to her across the game and how she's still fucking lives at the end it's like okay not only is she alive moller she is able to fight off someone in that weakened state that is how much bullshit people are just unstoppable the ellie doesn't kill her as in like execution style and she doesn't fight her with her weapons she wants to seem she seems to want to have some kind of brawl but she keeps her knife yeah it's like ellie you seem to jump into some weird middle ground here like what's your go if you were to say no she wants to have a fair bare knuckle fight you're like okay um that's weird but i guess i don't know i could try and try and justify that but it's like she didn't do that it's like yeah but she also wants to kill abby you know definitively get a revenge i'd be like so why'd you drop all your fucking amazing weapons just go but yeah just go back to your fucking boat get them out and say right bitch here's a fucking gun in your face yeah just the usey right silence just your just kill it the fuck no rags people aren't unstoppable in this game people die when it's convenient to the yeah basically yeah they can get that last cut up and beat beat down but if they're in a cut scene or if they're plot important they will just keep going and going like energizing money like lev should be fucking dead like fucking like that hit she should be oh my god remember when abby was hitting the head with a hammer you remember that shit i probably hurt a bunch it was enough to knock her out but not enough to do anything else okay well standard fair for fucking media i mean in things you could clock up all the times all the times the character is knocked out in the last of us one and two put together probably annoying you'd be like dab yeah but yeah tom he did get shot in the fucking head no he got knocked out he got knocked out from a head wound knocked out from a head wound man they really wanted the emotional payoff of his death without committee jesse got knocked out as well by head wound he didn't get up to me yeah i think it was said in the heel stream moller like jesse you were shot in the cheek that is more survivable than what happened to tom so much more likely to survive your shot in fact if you're shot through the cheek and you make enough noise as you fall to the ground and you sort of you know you're moving a little bit i think the audience could be like oh they might not be dead like they might be able to survive that if they get medical attention while shot in the back of the head the back of the fucking skull like no they're dead it's just that's not that's right it's like no it's gone you can survive that i just like a fuck off the likelihood that's what's obviously being referenced the funny thing also is that they had they were talking about how they're going back to jackson right they're going through so many states and everyone is injured how the fuck did they get back it's like cut cut to the future it's like oh my god i hate this game i hate we get so focused on how could they possibly survive that that head wound well ellies ellies had her arm broken yeah abby snapped her fucking arm in the fight and then smashed her fucking head to pulp she would have multiple concussions she was bleeding from a fucking eye for christ sake uh dina who's pregnant had her head smashed in the fucking floor three or four times her nose would be perforated to fuck she probably would have had multiple concussions and those two girlies managed to get a guy who was shot in the fucking head back to fucking jackson fuck out here with a nice little house to boo fuck off i remember talking about donkey's video well see what you all failed to realize is that the last of us two isn't a medical lesson okay it's not nothing on anything really it's about the family so this is a family it's about family it takes it's time setting the stage and getting you invested in it's characters it literally did the opposite it killed them all it gave us all the payoffs before the investment it's designed specifically to do that even the developers want to do that way so what you just said is just wrong it's crazy the example i think about to refute that statement is the dina relationship you're just supposed to accept that they're already in love and and that's it the best i could give him is interested to see where these people will go but like the whole idea is can we make you understand an event that is fucking horrific after the fact but like they bungled it and so what i'm suggesting is like they get you invested first and then they do the thing and i'm just like i mean you could argue that in like a small sense with showing us joel and ellie chilling out at first before all that shit happens but in terms of abbey the entire goal is to invest you in her after the payoff because that's an interesting challenge as a writer it's an interesting challenge it's just they did i want to recontextualize her actions i'm going to say that later well like the big problem is that what she does is fucking hideous like it's sadistic so it's really like if you're going to go with that level it's really hard to bring that back and all they do it should shot him once just shot him once, executed him let's go it's over i don't even consider that would be in character from what i've learned about abbey it would be her pushing to a very limit she will execute a person but it's like how do you justify a person who does what she does in that scene i don't even know that we can create an endearing character that did what she did in the opening like i think you have to make them disturbed the best thing to do is just understand how they got there but they didn't do that they created someone else and they were like please like it's weird because it's such a natural fit to the revenge story thing they decided not to go with it there was no repercussion from it it wasn't as if we went to that abbey and she was kind of like maybe this is how abbey normally is and then we never saw any sort of thoughts or questioning herself as regards to what she did what happened with joe the best you get the best you get is that she says she feels guilt and she's very nonspecific about this guilt it doesn't necessarily have to do with joe it could be about scar treatment it could be about the wrongs that the wlf have done but i think the game was trying to get at you that she doesn't feel 100% great about what she did to joe and it's like wow why don't you explore that explore that give me time with that yeah they'd never explored anything with any character the class we got was owin almost called her out and same with mel by the way they consider what she did in the ski lodge to be fucking messed up and he's like what would i do go find the guy who killed my parents and beat the shit out of her with a golf loop and then they have sex and it's like oh look okay seems like we would go in somewhere with that but never mind that's another thing that bothers me about this whole forgiving abbey shit doesn't feel like she earns the redemption because she's not sorry no that's another thing that bothers me that she's doing to joe what joe technically tried to so she's killing joe because he killed her her dad joe killed her dad because the dad threatened to kill ellie like i don't understand how you can once you know that abbey it's like isn't this a little difficult to call justice because you're doing the exact fucking thing really yeah they were going to kill a 14 year old girl on the hope that they could culture a vaccine without her knowledge 100% in charge of so do you think they're just going to start skipping around planet earth going here's some vaccine for you and here's some vaccine for you it's worth mentioning canonically didn't torture the doctor so people bring it up in chat it's like so he just shot her once joe should have known ahead of time what would happen so he needs to torture that doctor to make sure he gets the motivation right for abbey he's like i better torture this person otherwise and the last of us two won't make sense gotta do it oh man if they were operating off the function of an eye for an eye then when joe saved abbey's life then abbey would have had a conflict of interest because technically she owes joe that's the thing man that's the perfect set up for actual like a meaningful conflict in your head drama you can get out of that i know but did he no but i tell you what he got a transsexual teenager and a couple of gay girls in it so that's alright then can i tell you an example of this so i was thinking of a scene and then my brain was like wait you've seen this scene and i was like oh my god it's in that film so um but it's such a different context but it's still very applicable so i see like you know abbey joe and tommy are moving through buildings and something and uh there's a part where joe has like fallen on something and he's grabbing onto a ledge and she's the only one that can pick him back up or she could kick him off it and you know she sits there for a little bit staring at him and he's like help you know what's going on he doesn't realize he's looking around he's just trying to make sure he's okay and then she grabs him pulls him up and the camera's just sitting on her face where she's like almost blank it's just like it's something she had to do but is that the thing she wanted to do i don't know fucking lord of the rings does it with golem when uh he sees the ring coming off frodo's uh uh chain and frodo's struggling yeah that's right when they're climbing up at menace morgill and he could push him he could push him and take it but he doesn't again different context but these are the kinds of payoffs we could have had we're constantly stressed out that this girl wants to kill joel but she can't quite justify it she's having trouble and then she spends time with that decision yeah she doesn't have any problem like that i keep saying it it's like the perspective is not interesting that's the problem with abby it's like it's she's not an interesting character no she got her revenge she felt bad and now she's trying to make up for it in some unrelated plot it's so she got her revenge she said she felt bad in the throwaway line never to be mentioned again yeah well like imagine the third quarter of the game because joel's still again i say this like it's just impossible to do but fuck it we're throwing out everything that lust was too actually is and you know uh ellie could be on her own adventure it doesn't it doesn't really matter i'm just i'm just focusing on different ideas for payoffs you know like they get through loads of stuff joel and abby and then eventually they're in a room relatively safe and she just breaks down she's just tearing her just crying her eyes out and she tells him everything all the context that he's unaware of and uh i just i wonder how that information would sit with him you know because she's not saying i'm gonna kill you she's just sitting there crying because she doesn't know how to deal with it and he's just like fuck especially if they've become you know relative allies if not friends interesting position to put joel in as well because i imagine he'd be on the side of the fence of i'd do it and then yeah go in the root of your standard sort of affair instead of a subversive one you could then have your scene where someone has to stay behind to do something to let other people escape and he like is absolutely the one and you know he sees it as a sort of like recompense and you could have it that abby doesn't want him to do it but uh that's the arc if you will even though i think that's a little bit you could have even have had a in that sense you could have had this relationship with them built up you could have had the uh the the the admittance of it all of what happened what joel's you know responsible for you could have even had abby broken down crying with the gun in a hand and then you could have even done the gunshot you could have done the gunshot with black i mean it would have worked in that phase and then he would have gone did she kill him did she just shoot did she not kill him and then you have abby leave and the camera sort of comes and then the camera just slowly sort of follows the pathway into the house and down the stairs and into the room and then he could have had joel dead on the floor and like i said my idea sounds like in that scenario and yours there's all problems that can come with them and there's lots of ideas being like oh that's of course the story you go with it's so generic hollywood or something like that yeah but i don't know how about we have one of them instead this time we keep getting subversive stories that land like a fucking ton of bricks i just don't think that i don't think we should throw out the whole like hey how about a normal standard issue story that just teaches a lesson about the complexity of humanity how about that a bit lighter a bit lighter in this aspect than you guys i think because like one thing i want to be clear about from my perspective is i don't think the setup they have is unworkable and i think i'm very interested to see it made work i think that can make like a really good story but yeah there's all kinds of incredibly ham-handedly it's the problem i mean we've been going through that i think along this stream as well trying to chip away at all different kinds of fixes one of the first things we said was like execute joel instead of torturing him because it makes it really hard for us to understand you as a character when you seem to be more interested in causing pain than getting justice or revenge that's the funny thing they make abby consistent remember when she was going to kill dina and she found out she was pregnant you know what she says good good people keep saying that oh that's because ellie killed what's her what's her name again mel yeah but she didn't give a fuck about mel she cried about warwin shut the fuck up about that about that male shit in regards to her killing joel i don't know if this is just me being like it's probably mostly the fact that i'm just very uncomfortable with definitive statements about what you can and cannot do in media anyway is like i think you can have her torture him but like every decision you make early on about how she handles that scene is going to inform how you tell your story later and that's my contention was if we keep all the abby flashbacks in gameplay the same we can't have her torturing him if you want to keep the torturing the same we're going to have to change her as a character yeah i completely agree if she does the torturing like she does then the story of revenge has got to be ellie systematically goes through her friends and kills them in increasingly horrific ways i quite like quite like the one where she watches someone cough their fucking lungs out because of the spores while she stands over them immune that shit's cool as an idea yeah oh yeah very very much so but it's got to be it's the sum of its parts and it can't just be a singular cog and if the revenge story was told through that lens then you've got to get rid of this daft notion of trying to get you on to abby side because ultimately at the end of the game you need this big cocky butch fucking woman that smashed joe's head in with a golf club to be broken down and beaten psychologically by this fucking wispy girl who has gone through and annihilated her friends because of it it feels like a very like mistake and ambition because i don't need to be on abby's side to understand what she's like i don't need to back abby morally 100% to like understand or perhaps sympathize or get something compelling out of what she does i'd apply the same kind of logic to joel like joel isn't a character 100% morally behind at all times necessarily he's done horrible things we know that so like yeah that's what i say it's like it's not that deep it's not that deep guys stop saying that it is it's not really complicated oh she has another perspective oh so does every fucking else everyone else in reality it's like that's not really the extreme that we came up with before i think the stream started was you watch hitler do all of his worst things and then you have a flashback to hitler when he was 10 he's mr rogers which is that for 10 hours and you're like okay this isn't doing anything for me this isn't telling me anything about the things that are actually going to like give me anything to go with on this character yeah they had hitler gassing the juice at the beginning and then halfway through the game they had hitler drawing some painting some pictures of his dogs playing fetch with his dog in an unskippable on the rails fucking scenario oh that bit is so bad it's like play fetch with the fucking dog okay and you will like it oh i have a question about that people say that that scene is skippable is that true i couldn't skip it i tried i tried to get out of the room it wouldn't let me until i play fetched oh my god the camera is like the camera tilted to the dog right there's an other thing there's two doors that lead to the rest of the game and they don't become openable until you finish the fetching oh fuck me that's how story works in those fucking games why make it interactable if it means nothing to interact yeah that's another thing the game is afraid of being a game for sure yeah they have to rely on you it's absolutely afraid of giving you choice yeah if you don't choose the right things they don't think the narrative will work so you have to do those things at which point why is this a game it's a movie but the narrative didn't work in their mind they it's what they thought we paused on 420 oh god oh god we sad music because of dead weed oh it's time setting the stage and getting you invested in its characters and then they all start killing each other oh no nobody told me there'd be spoilers yeah sorry we're doing a spoiler free stream as you could tell from everything we've discussed so far I'm upset that he's now spoiling it turns out we got bamboozled you don't play as the giraffe instead you play it as a girl called Abby and she kills Joel with a golf club how are you gonna kill off the main guy that's everybody's favorite guy honestly I think Ellie should try to kill her see how she likes it now that would be a good story wait a minute I kind of miss what he said there what do you say oh wow this person killed Joel the person we like what we should do is have Ellie track them down and kill them show them what I mean I feel like there's a lot more thoughts going on at that point that's a good starting point complex in terms of the players feelings I seriously I think it's a lot more complicated than just she killed Joel we gotta kill her now more so what the fuck is going on how did this happen this way if we're talking in high concept then yeah that's probably what they want from you as a player that's fine but execution execution execution maybe they should have remembered why we like Joel so much it's probably the surface of the surface take of the game right that's what it's a revenge story of Joel avenging his father figure's death you're like okay but then you dig one layer deeper and then another layer and then another layer and then you hit bottom because that was as far as they went maybe he'll get to that kills Joel with a golf club how are you gonna kill off the main guy that's everybody's favorite guy honestly I think Ellie should track down this abby character and kill her see how she likes it now that would be a good storyline the truth is I don't know why people are mad at this game because they don't know why they're mad fans are obviously very very clear why we're mad well yeah oh we made oppositions clear on the mad yeah very very clear very concise plenty of videos plenty of discussion very attached to Joel as a character and that's why killing him off is such a powerful way to ignite a revenge story I don't know anything about this abby person but you fucking kill Joel with golf of all sports no way this big dumb muscle bitch and that's exactly what Ellie does like Uncharted last of us two uses do well yeah she gives up on abby which is really not informed or explained at all she just sort of was like then she goes back and then she goes back and then she gives up yeah I saw a funny thing like the original darker ending was abby getting killed and I'm like that makes sense yeah that's a happy ending yeah it's like it actually makes sense that ending actually makes sense I really think that abby is like Neil Druckmann's masterpiece in his mind that's why he doesn't want her to be killed I bet he had an idea for a third game which involved abby and so he didn't kill her at the end probably a fucking place ever again unless it's dead this fucking christ man the idea that in seven years I will be playing on stream the last of us three and it's all about abby oh god and abby doesn't get killed well she's gone in search of the remaining fireflies who are grouping up so what was dunkey saying the firefly revenge to her coming yeah we'll roll him back it's alright an attempt is made I was gonna say I'm using that as an argument for how shallow the game is when I think even in my footage when I'm walking through the areas I'm like oh my god the school they had in the nice people area do you get it do you get it top of each other they're intersecting, eldy's story is uncharted for and abby's story is last of us one just like nathan drinks which is bad I think that there are a lot of people I saw this kotaku article that says that abby's story people didn't like characters the playfruits of the early drafts of the game and I think that's abby's part of the game and what they did was they just copy pasted the last of us without understanding what made that story good which is funny because they made that fucking game oh there's a whole bunch of like misreading of and misunderstanding of the last of us one in this game very simple the core of the last of us is alien joe it's a family it's a father who's coming to terms or managed to come to terms with his lost dead daughter from outbreak it's reconnecting with one's humanity in a situation like this that causes people to like you could see it as turning to animalistic kind of ways and what is great about the last of us is it took a year before joe will actually crack like half a year it took months before joe will actually connect with ellie and in this game it took abby three days it's like fuck off game well it took us three days to suddenly decide to save the lives of two people who she doesn't even fucking know just because they don't waste time with the alien joe's dialogue all of it is like this one huge arc the fact that like the second you don't have tess anymore and the first thing ellie wants to talk to joe about is tess like the person she was what it means that she's dead and joe just fucking stonewalls her straight away he's like nope he's not talking about that nope no feelings fuck off feelings and so in your head you're already like man i really hope that ellie can get that out of him at some point i really hope that they can you know open up from the moment it started well with the lev and abby i don't know i remember being like i don't even know how long lev will be here for i'm assuming you know it could be it's so hard to get invested in people's stories when there's problems that just detonated at random so to speak you couldn't even connect with lev because they were like a fucking robot because they were just like what do you mean by the word cool oh yeah there's loads of that and it's just like oh it's just tons of fucking data from fucking next generation bullshit fish out of what i don't is this what you humans call love type of bollocks but as he loves his mom so that makes him deep right yeah kind of gets his sister killed and then he goes back to meet his mom who he loves and kills her okay great off camera as well off fucking camera as well yeah great stuff there's just a dead person like oh god i killed okay anyway move it on 10 out of 10 story telling well done mate oh no your sister's dead congrats treasure elie suicidal revenge mission puts her friends lives in constant danger and yet she's a suicidal um is it i don't think that they were intended to be suicidal no the funny thing is the at the le part of the story is actually like a well crafted machine they're not really intolerable until abby gets to them and then everyone dies in terms of their resources and approach they're pretty much golden like they've got all the advantages they need unfortunately tommy ran off without them for no fucking reason at all they don't ever claim that do they nope they never discuss it which is a huge deal i remember like the first thing i thought we need information on this like why are you acting him to say like i'm gonna get it done and so you don't have to be involved because this shit is like traumatizing but nope nothing he's just like yeah i mean i went ahead and the funny thing is like when tommy was talking to elie the night before he was like we gotta be smart about this this is what we're going to do and then he doesn't do the thing they were talking about it's so dumb it's so fucking dumb well like just whenever there's no reason you start to have to look to matter like what could there be a reason for to keep tommy out of the story it's like because they wanted elie and dina that was it yeah because they just jumped from jackson straight to seattle so we didn't even get character development yeah did nothing happen nothing what to have happened in this world this couple that just got together the night fucking before and nothing right okay and now they're off on their fucking whirlwind roam yeah they're fucking honeymoon to seattle fuck off i find donkeys framing of like what elie's doing in this whole revenge mission kind of suspect as well he frames it as like oh elie's doing this and it's getting everyone she knows and cares about her but everyone's like fully behind her not to mention she doesn't get a chance to address tommy he's going off on his own and as soon as she finds out that dina is no longer fighting to just one she has a stay behind yeah no and they bail yeah she actually chooses to leave the way to address like the only time you could really use this example is when uh jesse is like oh that's probably tommy and elie's like fuck him we're gonna go kill abby but which by the way would have been fine with me if not for the fact that later on she's like okay let's all leave now it's like wait no you're obsessed with killing abby that was terrible and i don't think it's really informed by much she's obsessed with killing abby but also not and it's like what the fuck that tommy could be in trouble and she just doesn't give a fuck about him at all and it's actually jesse that says well i'm gonna go and jesse goes after tommy and as we saw from the later on tommy could have done with some help yeah the crazy part is if you were gonna go kill someone in seattle and your choices of partner are dita the pregnant lady elie the inconsistent psychopath or tommy the legendary sniper i'd be like the fact that he shot at the cars to try and get zombies to eat the people he hates i was just like damn yeah she's smart as fuck why could we play with him why could he be in the campaign what the fuck she was really sad when i first started playing it i thought that the first big event in the game was going to be us catching up with him so after a few hours that's the first thing that happens that's pretty big i was wrong now tommy was there to get his head blown off and be alive yeah the whole revenge destroys everything understanding of both of these characters doesn't really work given that everyone's kinda fully behind them the whole way yeah and then they repeatedly decide against pursuing revenge and then they go back to it and then they decide against it again and then they go back again and then they start against it at the end as well if you're gonna have the flip-flop it needs to be informed by stuff which as far as i'm i can tell maybe i missed stuff it's not really informed by a whole lot other than just basic human concerns that aren't really to do with who each character is as a person but rather just who people are 10 out of 10 masterpiece game of a generation oh yeah game of a generation then half way through the game everything resets the clock turns back wait can we pause here i just wanna say that kills the pacing it's the second time it killed the pacing because when i saw everything joel dying people screaming and then going through his house having to deal with everything just happened and then it's like now it's time to begin the adventure across seattle i was like i don't i'm not oh is that what we're doing now and then we work through 10 hours of bullshit to finally get to the big payoff in the theater with our characters and then it cuts it right in the middle of the drama and goes time for another brand new adventure when i found out all my resources had been reset i was like oh no gamers love it can i also say that when i played through abby that is the moment they were really trying to make him her joel when her weapons are an analog to what joel uses in the game ellie chooses not to pick up weapons that are better than the one she's holding but abby abby gets the hunting pistol which is el diablo abby gets the fucking flamethrower abby gets the rifle at the end of joel's campaign as the default fucking weapon i love how they give her a crossbow too she's gonna have arrows too okay oh it's different because it's a crossbow and she punches people to death oh no and she also has the fucking shivs you know joel's thing it's like so fucking blatant you mentioned shivs so how come you need a scissors and a band the duct tape right to make a shiv you don't need the tape you just need this in fact a scissors will make two shivs the tape is for the handle i don't fucking know but a scissors comes with handles oh yeah why did you just stop him with the fucking scissors well no because then that would be easy and reasonable but really a scissors is two shivs they're connected together it's scissors so you're like okay oh no no no it's because the scissoring is left between dina and ellie i see that's where the scissoring needs to happen i'm afraid so there you go it was me i'm pretty sure that i could just use scissors and stab people and kill them with it instead of like combining it with something else that's not necessary and adds nothing to it this seems kind of odd friends lives in constant danger and yet she keeps taking it further then halfway through the game everything resets the clock i like that he says she keeps taking it further when up in climax she takes it back to zero she actually retreats right like they decide to retreat if you would say like she's pushing it the only time she really pushes it was when she chooses to go out to abbey instead of tommy that's like the only instance i can think of or it's like oh wow she's losing sight of the real important things but then you know soon after she's like no let's go home yeah let's go home now it's inconsistent so it sounds good you're okay we're going home when she lives yeah this is what i mean what dunkey said sounds good but it doesn't really represent what happens in the game turns back three days and now you play as the velly abbey who is a hearted killer that starts to reconnect with her lost humanity thanks to the innocence of her child companions sound like anybody you know it's obvious yeah well no like no it's it's so funny that that's all it takes the the theme of this stream has clearly been commenting on how shallow the game is and when you have people reviewing it this way it's like you're like joel but you're abbey it's so good like oh can we talk about like what's so meaningful about each of these characters and why it's like no no yeah you know how the the one character of ellie that was always wisecracky and funny and amusing and trying to break down joel's defenses throughout the whole of the first game is now a transsexual robot that says fuck all you like them yeah no i think we all understand that the key to making any dynamic well any arc and interaction like that is their dynamic with the characters around them and for that you need much better dialogue writers than you have on hand apparently well yeah because everything is cliche as hell in abbey's opening scenes it's it's all handcrafted to be like hey show them stuff i'll make them like her okay what's in our list like uh she likes animals she's nice to friends she looks after people have a walk past people who are like hey abbey you're awesome it's so handhandedly how her walk past a gym that says look she's walked past a gym that's why she's massive like a fucking roided up steroid using portuguese shop putter they also say that if they do have a gym like how come abbey is the only one who's jacked exactly that's another thing that where's the steroids yeah yeah that's another thing why isn't she eating seven meals a day of high protein why isn't she sleeping 10 hours a day to maintain why doesn't she do any fucking lifting whatsoever in the whole fucking thing i mean do you want a gritty realistic world or just want to look like that and you don't want to commit but it was just so dumb the way they did her anyway like i said because in all the flashbacks she's just a regular girl so why did they feel the necessity between the last flashback and this to suddenly turn her into a fucking roided up mr fucking universe they actually feebly set it up right like in the aquarium i think abbey goes oh i benched 185 and and oh and doesn't believe her and something like that well the argument i've heard is that you know she saw a dad die and she vows to you know become a super strongman to be able to you know fight bad people from now on and it's like okay why didn't we see that like story yeah that's another thing i don't see abbey becoming i didn't see abbey deciding to be evil does that make sense yeah we've never seen her drive there's no drive with this fucking character no we just see her dad die and i don't see the point where i'll be evil just my dad the the strangeness of like so when they gave me abbey and i saw all of this i got it i was like oh i see what you're doing so first of all you're going to establish she's a she's a good person right and these are all good people sure i get it then you cycle outside of the base and you're attacked by the the warring faction and you end up in some warehouse and you have to fight zombies and i remember being like what are we doing like why don't guys need to use your time a bit better you need to endear me to her instead of just yeah like why are we wasting our time on this like i don't care you have your work cut out for you endearing player to a character who's killed probably one of that player's favorite characters if not favorite in the game well yeah there's an argument i've heard flowing around where it's like people didn't love joel that much does like you fucking nuts like joel uh joel's beloved as fuck for what i what i remember like you really got to get on that and you need to not be so ham-handed about it did you see that any of you see the guy the korean streamer that cut this dish yeah immediately after he saw the fucking joel died well i'm done i don't agree with the perspective fully like that's i can see that's what that does to some a lot of a lot of people's investment just that happens so brutally and well contrivedly and you just like i don't want to i don't want to play anymore it's a hard ask yeah it's like why go on what's so somebody in chat asked joel shouldn't have died i think you could do a brutal joel death properly the opposite version inside joel absolutely should die i would have killed him if it was my last of us too yeah i don't think he should have or shouldn't have either way yeah you can have a story work with him being alive or dead that's not really the important part the problem is the way they did it the way they did it they ignored everything that made joel a good character they ignored everything that made tommy interesting and they just killed him off so they rely on the good love and happiness that you have with these old characters so they can just fucking shit on him to use him as nothing more than ammunition apparently the stream you were talking about apparently his dad had died recently and apparently joel reminded him of yeah well i mean that's not something we can hold the developers responsible for but that's very unfortunate yeah it just sucks people were saying that like several people said so i'm assuming this is true but i don't fucking know but cosmonaut is the one who said people don't like joel joel's not beloved because i already saw it at the discord someone said that like this is an argument that uh that's a lot of absolute bollocks well yeah like that's just not true joel's pretty beloved i would argue he's one of the most beloved characters on the playstation yeah especially given how massively influential the last of us was well we'll be covering cosmonaut another time your protagonist from the last game just gets horrifically murdered in the first two hours and then barely used again so this is the argument that i think they think that we're talking about all the mechanics that led to it and how broken it is but they think what we're talking about is the mere act of him dying so early no well that's the thing if we let's say all the mechanics made complete sense in the boardroom like i've said this on stream before but it's like i would caution the developers or the writers you might not want to kill him that early it's gonna upset people cos they really like him that's all and if they were like yeah i don't care i'd be like alright that's yeah you'd definitely go that way but then of course my next argument would be hey guys i checked out the marketing what the fuck you might want to not lie to people just put it out there yeah yeah yeah we're gonna take the things that you liked and you love and you're connected with and we're gonna just use that it's just a resource for us to use yeah the trailers make it look like Joel is coming along Ellie's revenge trip that's the thing that bothered me when you look back Ellie's got something to do and Joel's with her to do it they very purposely set it up to look like Deena was the one that was killed yeah and then of course with Joel on a revenge mission for Deena's death and of course with how the game begins Joel and Ellie are clearly there's something between them that's bad blood and of course you can use the lie as part of their drama that's gonna be dealt with over the journey of the game of them getting revenge for Deena and you couldn't already it's like whoa we got lots to work with lots to work with but no that's not what we got well that's the thing none of these are what we got we got this thing and if if you like again it can work but this thing does not work that's the problem they're going to try and humanize and develop all these characters now looking from the other side and at first you reject them you go fuck these guys and at first and at second and at third yeah for the rest of the fucking game it's only until they're killed that you feel happy like yeah yeah you feel good you're glad when they die you celebrate when they're dead after what they did like I hate to put it like this but you pretty much have to trick your players into liking them yeah it's tough I mean the zebra if anything else is the most hilarious when you see stuff like that because you know exactly what they're doing you can't be that on the nose about it because we're going to see it coming a while away and we're going to be offended I mean I don't know it's childish and I just don't understand I don't know how it like I don't want to insult people by calling them as the world's greatest dad in the world Abby come here we need to save the zebra I thought that Terminator 2 was the seminal piece of media to teach writers this lesson it's not actually about like oh they like zebras why was everyone crying when the stupid robot died because it's a lot more complicated than just oh they're a nice person though but they're a nice person it's not about that look at all the interactions look at what they do for a person I feel like Joel should have been the easy archetype for them to understand this from people who condemn other people for liking him or think he's a good person we're probably going to have words about that when we cover the cosmonaut one apparently I imagine whether or not someone's a good person is not what defines how much you'll enjoy them or like them this is some writing 101 shit a lot of my favorite characters are not good people in fiction no I don't have to morally align with a character to like be committed to what they're doing in some way or immersed in their actions and understanding of them and compelled them that's what's going on with T2 the ultimate example of that everyone in that thing is a horrible terrible person and people love it and they're rooting for characters and they're totally diving in that's what I meant with T2 he's not human he can't share his moral system he doesn't have one and so what do you think that tells you that Joel with golf except for the dog I like him but as you keep playing I know that was a tiny comment but seriously that's entirely what it's there to do I don't, yeah you hear people talk about the game like this and you're like how simple is your mind I don't feel like a who I'm enlightened by my own intelligence kind of tight but you hear people talk about stuff like this and you're standards are just subterranean I don't want to reference this too hard because I want everyone to go see it a film called The Hunt from 2013 I'm going to try and remain as spoiler free as possible in here there's a dog that is simply a dog that is in the house and it's a part of a guy's life because the guy has a pet which is pretty common and let's just say story relevant to the dog isn't exactly overt or on the nose it's just a time simply that he has a dog you like dogs cool because there's a dog it's just a dog that scene is like this is the scene in which you will like the dog good we have completed the scene in which you will like the dog next scene is the scene in which you will like this particular character this is the scene in which Manny will share that he likes his father you will now like Manny you're sitting there like what the fuck and couldn't drive this is ridiculous this is why companies do it because because people like Dunkey are just going to be all on board with it's incredibly simplistic just paint by number style of presentation I'm not trying to assume too much about him he was like I like the dog and I'm like damn that's exactly what they want you just go like yeah I like the dog part with the dog because it was specifically designed to make you fucking say that that's exactly the problem here we're already predisposed against this character very heavily right so the split second we're made aware they want me to like them and they're being quite clear about that effect we're just going to recoil even harder against the character yes because it's so it feels so this game is extremely artificial yes none of this is natural steps away from the characters all walking through and then someone goes hey Abby and she goes what we rescued orphans from a building that was on fire I do remember that and this is why I related it to our talk about the dawn I was like that was for memes we did that for memes not to make an actual hard hitting dramatic story and the funny thing about the Abby flashback the first fucking day I even hate her more because Mel talks about how uncomfortable she was killing kids and Abby's like fuck them kids it's so what is this game trying to do I don't understand it's like it's probably worth bringing up as well because I was just thinking about the time when Manny Mel and Abby are all talking to each other I'm assuming you guys remember this pop but they do the theme but it's really hammering it into your fucking cerebral cortex they go and write for it so they're like X killed Y yeah but Y killed Z but Z killed A yeah but B killed Z and it's like game I get it I get it it's so fucking bad stop game Naruto did a better show come on try harder yeah it's a funny story Naruto did it better I think that's funny because it's true it's fucking true man what is the name of this video how dare you distract me with the name of the last of us two is a masterpiece and one sec you should be ashamed for not liking it oh wow I'm assuming that's a meme wait wait the top comment says you had me in the first half not gonna lie I'll have to check that one out that sounds like it could be fun I hope so maybe he hates it anyway except for the dog I like him but as you keep playing eventually you find yourself getting wrapped up in their drama the moment when they really got me was this sniper fight this battle goes on for so long that you really come to hate this fucking sniper guy but by the time you pause not really I feel totally oh I think I know where he's going I think I know where he's going like oh my god the sniper stop me oh my god it changes your perspective entirely it's funny when I was playing it I was just like oh thank fuck like finally Tommy I haven't seen you for the whole fucking game dude I give a shit about kind of because of how cool they try and make him in this doesn't it just like indeed you more to tell me what a comedy of errors right because first of all this is a well known sequence in lots of games that's fucking annoying I think most people find sniper sequences where you have to jump from piece of cover to piece of cover to piece of cover to piece of cover it's not that exciting in fact you just like please get to the end secondly no one likes them stop doing them he's immune to damage you can't keep him from wherever you are it's impossible so it's like that's a fun element cool because your game can't support that of course if it did it would be more of a game just say thirdly that of course when you find out that this is a sequence in which Manny is finally back you're like I don't want us to survive this yeah and hindsight you're like man I really wish Tommy would have fucking posted these two oh god yeah well that's the thing you can do that you can let him kill you like oh but then the game is like no that's non-catted you're like no no the funny thing is like I think what donkey is gonna do is he's gonna act surprised that it's Tommy and like oh the perspective do you guys get it and I'm like dude we know that it's Tommy like who the fuck else could it be right like if you would ask me who do you think the sniper is when I was playing it I would have actually probably told you I'm not sure and then if someone said think about it who could that be I would have been like oh shit is it Tommy that would make sense actually I guess true because of course it could be a scar theoretically but why would it be you know it's such a grand sequence for just a random yeah but I was happy somebody's made a jailbot for us by the way oh my goodness oh if you want to just paste it in our little chat thing I can throw it up I threw up one earlier was it the Terminator one yeah yeah yeah the Terminator one I've never shown that I always thought it was Tommy because I thought that the place where Abby and Manny were I think I thought that was where Jesse was going so that's why I thought it was Tommy I just want Tommy's Bandolier okay it's a fucking it's one of them clown cars but of Bandoliers I just want Tommy to kill everyone there is that too much to add I know well I could remake The Last of Us 2 call it The Last of Us 2.5 and the whole campaign is you see Ellie and you're like keep it in canon right you're playing as Tommy you see Ellie and then you're like fuck it and you do a montage of loading up all the weapons and armor you burst out of the town in a Mercedes and you go down to Seattle instantly and you just mow down everyone there there you go fix it I would get behind that I would get behind that no I really like that Ellie's side of the story is very focused and simple wait I'm sorry what he liked Manny that was the thing he liked Manny no I think he said what about Tommy so oh that's Tommy I like that but I thought he was gonna go I thought he was gonna say a little more about like I thought he was gonna do what you said where he was gonna go don't you see the game is like making you hate someone that you previously loved or something like that he's like implying that he's not gonna like spend time on it I guess these guys I don't care about them they kill Joel with golf except for the dog I like him but as you keep playing eventually you can find yourself getting wrapped up in their drama the moment where they really got me was this sniper fight this battle goes on for so long that you really come to hate fucking sniper guy but by the time you reach him you realize wait a minute no I really like that Ellie's side of the story is very yeah that's it wait he doesn't even say who that guy is I thought this was spoiler time yeah well whatever I guess it's like a half a spoiler nice buddy it's not that complicated I'm happy to agree with him that it's messy yeah but it's not I don't see it's complicated to be honest I guess he means it's introducing all kinds of other nonsense probably yeah it's sprawling yeah I wish donkey explains why it's complicated so like it's just one line well for anybody who's been listening we've only got like 30 seconds left probably with how everything else works of this video does that mean donkey sort of plays with commentary but doesn't quite go much further than just sort of his ideas on a thing and it's like okay a character you've already encountered why would I want to see all this happen it's the bsp girl oh I remember her how did anyone miss that cause they make a point to point out the music in both times you meet her and plus she looks the fucking same look she reminds me of roast fucking Tico so I was happy to slit her fucking throat well her death scene is retarded she's at the fucking mercy of Ellie and then she decides to try and quickly pull a knife on her and I want to point that this happens in John Wick all the time so she's got one hand with the knife one hand free Ellie's got one hand with a knife one hand free you as roast Tico you try to plunge the knife into Ellie and Ellie blocks it with her free hand so now you're thinking as bad guy shit she's got a knife hand and I've got one free hand so I gotta nail this and she decides to put her second hand on her first hand to attempt to push the knife and then Ellie has this moment of wait but I have a free hand with a knife and then she just stabs it she's like okay I stab you and then the girl's like oh my god you had a free hand with a knife fuck the funny thing is like Ellie goes that was stupid she even goes that was stupid it's the kind of fight where I was just like why did you do that it's a deep game look it's a 10 out of 10 masterpiece it's a game for generation for fuck's sake Mola come on she was playing hard why couldn't we pick up that and play it it would have been bad show up in the back half of the game and you go hey I remember that guy characters will do things you won't agree with and you'll have to turn your brain not killing Abby yeah I don't agree with that yeah he is right we disagree with a lot of the choices the characters make I agree in the world of Last of Us part 2 one hateful act begets another but a selfless act it wasn't even hateful I disagree with that it was like oh you're in my if you don't do anything the guards will shoot you it's that fucking like it's not hateful yeah that's I think that's what he's implying so when analyzing right was what Joel did motivated out of love or hate I think love he killed people he killed a guy who had a gun to his head and he's trying to protect someone from having their brain fucking taken out of their skull against the necessary consent not gonna say against her will because the Last of Us 2 was decided it was canon that she wanted that and I know a lot of people trying to use the line where she says like she wants the lives of people who have come before her to matter and stuff but there's loads of ways to interpret exactly what she meant by that and she makes plans with Joel for post cure she talks about all the things she wants to do so it doesn't sound like she wants to die okay so we've concluded a hateful act begets another it's like no that starts with Abby so I guess Abby's no if anything a merciful act begets hateful acts yeah yeah okay I think that's a fair point actually Rags it's frustrating this is all framed this way so on the one hand have all these characters make decisions that we'd find questionable morally or otherwise but on the other hand try and just endear us to them in a moral sense through like you know look how good of a person they and the people around them are I feel like that's not the way you go about it those two are pretty disjointed with each other that's pretty and also that's the most basic human shit you're good to people that are good to you I mean it's not that deep yeah I'm sure I mean Hitler had friends I don't care if they're a good person or just let me know them a bit more hey I remember that guy characters will do things you won't agree with and you'll have to turn your brain on and attempt to empathize with them oh this is big well this is Malomis Cortex level gaming here this is rick and marty shit this is rick and marty shit it's too deep for you guys turn on your fucking brain really? yeah Malo you need to turn on your fucking brain to get this his last of his two goodness it's not that deep though the game is not that deep sorry yeah my bad I missed that first time around but okay till you break it on yeah but what Ryan said being good and merciful actually leads to more violence like the stupidest decision everyone has in the first part is letting Ellie and Tommy live yeah absolutely this is said by the character in the game the part where she said you wasted it is funny to me however all of the death that came as a result of it it's like damn I want to know with the game being oriented around this purpose what does having characters unceremoniously and randomly just killed with and then dropped serve especially because those characters don't know why they died a lot of times they just die so they don't even know it's coming they just don't exist anymore so there's no like sudden realization of what they've done it's pretty funny that they're not coming to understanding with anything yeah like Manny Manny's perspective was there's a fucking psycho sniper trying to shoot at us I'm not even sure what the fuck's going on could be a scar could be what oh I'm dead okay Ellie and Jesse yeah they run through a pair of doors and he just dies what's that doing for us it's because it's in a narrative sense it's meant to tell you that oh my god your life can be snuffed away at any moment I'm well familiar with the concept of senseless violence and I don't think you need to do this multiple times to necessarily demonstrate that point well Kirkman thought you do and I don't think you ever should really do that before like giving me some understanding of this person so I have reason to care when they're killed Manny is going to care after the fact is that's a doable but why make things hard on yourself big bold Manny likes his dad so that's all we need to do you can make it hard on yourself like that but ideally with some intent behind it like do it that way if you need to in service of something else not just now it's pregnant why not I guess when are we getting this movie coming out I'm supposed to make you want to see it for sure looks awesome seriously it's going to work by the way for a tissue it's like yep so thank you alright I think we're almost at the end got this I'm glad you've established they had an idea it's the execution that faulted it's like I'm glad you agree with basically everyone who has a problem with this no they don't even know why they don't like it you remember oh shit sorry how would they know you're just gonna kill that you have to switch your brain on we are on brain off mode but they sniff each other and they say oh your stinky face let's go broad and pretend none of this ever happened this is actually hard to do but pretend none of this ever happened and I said what if the second game was about someone getting revenge on Joel and actually being successful and Ellie having to deal with that as a repercussion and explore his history in a more blatant way and find out more about this guy that she loves almost unconditionally well that sounds like you could make it work conceptually maybe not the right I'd take but there's lots of different options you can go with and I think we've said this before that the phrasing we're coming up with is there's no such thing as a bad idea it's rich ideas versus dull ideas and then they're all on a big scale it's hard to make the dullest ideas work but it's always possible you've got to have a more coherent vision behind what you're going for than this you can't be shit yeah that's a 4 out of 5 don't go that's too high that's 3 points too high yeah 4 points too high 4 out of 5 what does that cover what does that tell me about the game it's about Ellie but no it's not white female rage blood on her face and everything as well oh he said shut the fuck up leafy did leafy review this game who the fuck is leafy he's the commentator funny guy a 4 out of 5 shut the fuck up leafy I don't know what leafy said about the game probably shot on it that's because it was shit well that's the thing when you find a shit in the wild most people will take a shit on it that's just what you do I'm curious if there's some kind of sticker no he doesn't usually have stickers well well that was and so begins our foray into the world of what it's like to like the game that was not a great start it's just gonna be the brick and mortar of video games like you gotta have a high IQ to understand the last of us part 2 is this gonna be that shit it's just funny that that's all they need is someone to say it's about family and that's what's so powerful about it automatically they're like well it's immune to criticism now yeah we're just a comedy podcast after all yeah if you disagree with anything we've said by the way we are comedy focused so just a comedy podcast don't think about it guys it's beyond reproach don't worry about it all the points we make we're just not they're just no time no reason to get they don't even know why they've been mad anyway no oh yeah everyone ready to explore another point of view in relation to this game oh wait can we see you watching the abbey sex scene first please can we not I'd rather not see it again I want to see more of this reaction to the abbey love scene again fuck what's hang on talk amongst yourselves you disgusting bigots alright anyway that synagogue look lovely didn't it I really did very um how'd they get the money that well we um what are you talking about oh my goodness gracious that could open a can of worms that everyone's there oh hey hey is this big is it what is it called um are these bigot sandwiches kosher oh oh no no no no I just want to be respectful to other cultures they're steak aren't they so they're not they're two hours I mean I played for like one hour 13 minutes in Ramona yes wait as you you remember we did on Friday night tights last night no no no no no no no no oh jeez no no no oh my god no no no no no no I really think that muscle girls are you know no I really do think that wait um a peepo was sacrificed in order for me to keep seeing some shit he subverted peepo's expectation oh yeah he didn't know he was informed peepo could you take the bag and he was like okay oh oh my god finally I get to see what video games are like oh no he went rarer than a fucking freshly cut steak where's the rarer than a bigot sandwich oh my god when does when does Manny die like uh when um is that before yeah when thomas feeds him in the head is that before or after the sex scene after after yarrow is with you like after yarrow gets her arm taken out wait is the giant blob creature called the rat king what like I think I know what people would call it that that was the kind of a nifty idea for a monster but they didn't really do much with it well they don't do a lot of things they could maybe have done with the concept and that about the whole game they just want it to be zombies so okay I guess they're not really interested in the core deceptive angle it is just kind of dressing even they are just like second right they might even thaw down this one that you know he's right he's a good person mell is right mell is absolutely fucking right mell is right you go fuck yourself yeah mell is fucking right there you go yay yes yes why do you why do you do this to your character's game I don't think that's the what Kirkman 1 did the response oh okay and the last one because everyone's fucking gonna ask for it is where is fat gerald my hero Ellie arrives in Santa Barbara I missed it I fell back asleep for the fat gerald so I missed it I woke up just as gerald was getting shot yeah so it's a nightmare scene that one holy shit Matthew Matosa's not up yeah Matthew Matosa's put out a video on it holy fuck oh shit I can't wait I hope he hates it is that a weird thing to say I hope Matthew Matosa hates it I hope he hates it I'm gonna watch that after this oh my god he woke up Matthew Matosa holy shit something to do with all the stuff yeah something to do with mega micro videos and little stuff about little games which is generally how he operates I think something in the games either he liked or he did not like for him to have made a video that's that's his usually that's how he usually does things well he could have just probably was just a last of his fan like a lot of people were and he's had this happen I think he hated it I'm gonna guess that he hated it I'll be watching this stream yeah can we just watch his stream I feel like enemies won't shoot a baby wait oh here we go absolute king okay Constance Mahler is this when you realize you're gonna have to play as Abby again I swear they came to end that's like the big thing they just did not know when to end this fucking game my resources which I'm assuming they've done again yeah so let's let's just play the way the game wants me to why is the game still going this might be the worst ordered narrative I think I've ever experienced you know it's a strange problem to have like most stories you talk about continuity mainly or at least we often do and then how it made you feel but this story like I don't even know where to begin you gotta find a far-fetched based out it's like the death it's about to skip to it I could have sworn I read that it was 154 really trying to sap my investment cut to it at any point not just investment characters or story but just to play oh god how much of this is there valid questions the last of us two on repeat in hell I'd like to visit just to find out really Mola's apathy is not earned I don't particularly enjoy watching Joel get shat on again and again and again all valid points imagine someone else telling you your apathy is not earned yes I'll tell you your emotional experience is not allowed definitely something that saps me I kind of just want to have the ending Abby from Santa Barbara all the fireflies are gone distanced, removed this is like that scene where the firefly is supposed to be just hope for humanity Abby's name should be pretty well known oh here we go psycho I am not unhappy about this the fucking size of that absolutely oh it's so good it is so fucking good what else could you say can we replay that part sure nice beautiful nice thing of beauty right there dead you can almost seem like warming up for it offscreen yeah just in the corner of the screen you can see him like okay here's my shot here we go I mean this dude knew there was a fight going on but he had his fists so he's like no I'm that I'm ready what were they thinking that freeze is perfect by the way that's basically the meme that's the meme I saw the following meme of it is this where you put the jojo music is this where we have the jojo music coming out do do do do do do oh god the matthew reto's video is 37 minutes not even like super long damn I like the top comment finally matthew can tell me by opinion of the game I've been there I've been there yeah but he's so good though yeah matthew matthew really articulates his points very well how can you not have your mind changed he's insane yeah I like that he's good shit how can anyone stop him do you remember like his legend of celda videos it was so good like I like his dark souls videos dark souls videos dark souls videos dark souls dark souls you can't go wrong listening to matthew even for 7000 hours in a row his videos are really cozy I like them especially his commentaries yeah yeah so it's time for a legend to return to the stream for coverage anyway good old absolutely right my arch nemesis video why I liked last of us part 2 I swear to god if I see philosophy in this video oh look he's already covered his ass okay this is why he liked it so disagreements are kind of unwarranted because this is simply his opinion and why he liked it can you please take that into consideration okay good alien dialectics for this one for this one oh shit oh boy oh here we go hands in the air I shoot this one too halfway through the last of us part 2 the story seems to reach its climax when it takes yeah I know where it should have fucking ended yeah yeah but normally climaxes leave me feeling good oh the story seems to reach its climax when it takes a risky turn for 10 or so hours oh that's what it takes a risky turn I mean yeah I'd say this turns throughout that I would absolutely have considered risky as if it was bringing them up like oof beating the fuck out of the beloved character it's a bit risky good luck selling that I kind of appreciate the provider but good fucking luck Jesus yeah be ready to private your twitter account because people could send mean things main characters from the previous game she is seeking revenge against this character Abbey who brutally murdered her sort of adopted father Joel as Ellie you track Abbey to Seattle where she's part of a militant group called the wolves and for three days you go on a war path through the city in an attempt to find her it's set up exactly like a traditional revenge story with Ellie hunting down everyone responsible for Joel's death while growing increasingly obsessive erratic and bloodthirsty but then that's true no again it's not erratic and bloodthirsty but you can't really listen if we call it from A to B to C to D it's like um super angry B is like yeah pretty angry C is like yeah most angry now and then D is let's go back I don't I don't think we can call that like a rising blood vengeance fury I'd be like I can't tell what he's referencing that's probably I always have with these people why don't they reference things I'd like you to tell me exactly where this comes from because I can't see it I assume that like we can guess where they got it from which was that it kind of feels that way things are getting more stripped away as time goes on but it's like it doesn't actually if you think about the events they don't quite actually go that way to put it to put it cynically or yeah I feel like they're tricked by the high concept of the game I mean when you're writing script I think that feels like the thing to say a revenge story and that's how revenge stories go so that's how this one is going when the facts of the matter don't really support that the funny thing is if they played through the game but you know you'd notice that Ellie actually hangs back and like what Mahler said the time that she goes like oh maybe vengeance is wrong is when she chose Abby over Tommy that's the only time I went oh no we get a few lines every now and then in conversations of her being I guess like vaguely disturbed in that regard I mean they obviously the scene is the spores and everything is covered in red obviously like look how bad she's become guys but then you get to really though well you get to the aftermath where she's like kind of freaking out about what she's done and she's got loads of wounds and stuff and then you move on to yeah let's go home okay let's do it let's go home and then Abby trundles in and you're like oh so yeah I don't know it's just a weird way to look at it I don't think that's what actually is in the thing but people keep saying it is and I think it's being tricked by the high concept it looks like a revenge story so it's probably gonna play out like a revenge story right and that's how they usually go yeah they usually just keep cranking up every time but you look at Ali in the opening where she's like oh what a fucking girl yeah I would be like that's probably pretty high on the scale actually you know yeah and then she's answering around with Dina hideout and has the upper hand when the game smash cuts to black rewinds the clock placing yeah the game fucks off oh what you had something interesting well we can't have any of that look Zebra if people were curious about like why this is such a problem it's like you're both watching you know revenge is endgame and the three you know Thor, Iron Man and Cap engage with Thanos then someone hits pause and goes do you want to watch an episode of The Simpsons and you're like no not right now you're like well okay we'll come back to endgame it'll always be there for us I think a better analogy would be like just before they fight Thanos we cut to the guy driving Thanos's vehicle and how they got to that point before the fight starts well can you argue I guess the most app would actually be you start watching Iron Man from start to finish at the moment they're about to battle Thanos it's like let's get some history on this Tony Stark guy you're like I mean okay yeah let's see how Tony Stark became the hero known as Iron Man oh fuck I hate it see you to play the next 10 hours from the villains perspective leading up to this showdown I don't even know that you can say it's from the villains perspective in a literal sense because what I feel that he's trying to get across is that you watch all of Infinity War technically a lot of the scenes are from Thanos's perspective and they could have done it so that it's exclusively from the heroes no scenes with him and then you release a second movie and we follow him so the opening is him attacking the ship that Thor and Loki are on and then as soon as he teleports out we follow him to wherever he ended up and we follow him throughout the whole thing that would be that what we see in The Last of Us 2 is not necessarily her perspective on the same events as Ellie it's just what she's getting up to in the day that Ellie's getting up to stuff too it's just like okay there's no recontextualization to be has that because yeah everything that happens to her has nothing to do with Ellie really yeah this scene is the only time that they cross that's it that's the only time that they actually other than that you know the hospital scene Abby's already kind of like done her stuff so nothing that you're particularly doing is having any effect on Abby what he's describing makes it sound a lot more clever than it actually is the second time he's done it it's like damn okay this has been a very contentious decision hasn't it it's not for everyone but in this video I want to talk about why the switch worked for me and what I got out of that experience part one play don't show how can it not be shown what to show also most of the dramatic shit in this game is shown so trying to do an it's trying to do an expansion on show don't tell but I surely it's play don't tell right I wouldn't play with how it's going yeah I would classify playing under showing yeah I agree with you guys I think you should have said play don't tell post commonly repeated piece of writing advice is show don't tell you can't tell your audience how to feel you have to show them how to feel well the shit you like can tell us how to feel also what is he talking about they have several characters express how good Abby is to us it tries very hard to tell me how to feel yeah I couldn't disagree with it it's obnoxious yeah that's part of why everyone fucking hates it like we get really annoyed with having the tell us how to feel yeah this is an M rated game stop treating me like I'm 12 not to mention the first games ending they do not tell you how to feel about Joel's decision it's very up in the air yeah couldn't really blame me for being revived this game has an example of the difference because it does both for the same scene at the beginning of the game we are told about the events of a dance that happened the previous night let me see if I got this right you kissed Dina she kissed me which triggered set to call you a not so nice word I can't believe that is the word that he wasn't gonna say like I thought it was especially like guys to be honest if you're friends and you're talking about some insult someone through at you you'll just be like he called you a dyke damn can't believe he called you a dyke he called you a mean word you know that remember you're dealing with a 25 year old apocalypse with a writer who wants to write as if it's 2020 sensibility and also it doesn't work the whole fucking dialogue between so many of these people don't work because you can't have one day dialogue one day sensibility in a 25 deep apocalypse and if you're Jesse here that's Jesse right yeah it's kind of more dickish to not just say dyke because now you're forcing her to go through her memories to pick out the word that was said so that she knows what he's referring to instead of him just saying it well Joel Dexton and then you got mad at Joel that part confused me yeah Joel did something for me and you got mad at Joel that part confused it's like the game knows ahead of time confused by this so he's set it up well early on like look I know you're going to be confused by but trust us it makes total sense that it doesn't poor Joel yeah yeah just rename the game poor Joel yeah Joel got done dirty you take in the information but you don't feel the emotion of the scene but then later in one of the games many flashbacks you get to see the scene in full we don't learn much of anything new because it's right at the end of the game and it was watching this scene that made me you know message to Mahler while I was watching the streams like dude fuck Ellie and also why is this game still fucking going why is this scene this scene at this part of the game I don't give a fuck they don't know how brains work because they don't have any I'm genuinely curious what did they want from placing it this way oh I think what they were trying to do is that they were trying to show that Ellie is still bothered by letting Abby live so she's remembering the good quote-unquote good memories or whatever memory she has of Joel like the whole flashbacks are Ellie being angry at Joel and coming to grips with trying to forgive him and Abby is the person that took that away from her that is the whole purpose of the flashbacks but they are told in such a bad way the last flashback she says I want to start to try and forgive you the point the game is trying to make is that's the big tragedy that was taken away is that those two could have healed their relationship but Abby stopped it which again in a border of like guys is that actually what you want to do tell the fans that their relationship was broken and they couldn't have healed it before he was fucking brutally murdered is that what you want to do hooray why would that memory be the impetus for forgiveness also that is such a fucking hey if she can forgive Joel then surely she can forgive Abby seems to work against the way they play Ellie in this Ellie fucking horrible she is just said show don't tell then read 6 billion pages of diary entries yeah to the beats are the same but this time we really feel the emotion we can't just be told that Joel yeah that's another thing it's so late in the game that I don't really care that says said dike no I don't the stakes are way too high to care about something like that yeah exactly exactly I have to scrape so deep for character development on Dina at least I could put one guy called her a dike as a character trait because I just desperate for something Joel's had his head smashed in with a golf club and tortured every fucking person Tommy's had his fucking head shot he's had his knee shot Dina's preggers and puking Jesse's dead Manny's dead Mel's dead Owen's dead Danny's dead Dave everyone's dead Dave and you're meant to be fucking worried because some guy goes hey Ellie you're a dike oh fuck off none gives a fuck sticks and stones I like that he's implying that first we understand the events and then we understand the emotion and it's like no when you explained to me in simple terms she was called a mean word Joel stood up for her and her and Joel got into some kind of you know tussle whatever my brain went to like oh is it are we doing a kind of like he's protecting her indefinitely and she's like I'm not a little girl anymore that sort of thing but though they don't do that what's happening here is she's just like go away and he's like oh and my god you see his face and you see him like curl away oh yeah and you're just like this makes it so much fucking worse oh it could have been okay nope what is wrong with you he had no right and you do this is awesome this was the part in the stream I yelled out audibly that there was someone else here they would have gone I was randomly going what the hell Ellie it's like why is Naughty Dog trying to make her the most insufferable cunt they possibly could because Abby needed competition is a fucking leftist twat bucket how are you right great great intersectional fucking characters they're just twats oh so bad why shit man if someone did that for me I would be like I'd be like I appreciate it you don't need to do that for me it's really okay I appreciate that you are willing to do that for me in front of everybody it shows that you care he saved her life remember he saved her life and she didn't want that well yeah that's what the subtext is but she's being a fucking cunt there's just no way around it if you break apart the literal meaning you got he had no right and what he's referring to is he has no right to like you know mismatch your sexuality that's some fucked up shit and then she's like you have no right to and you're sitting there like what that doesn't even make sense and then of course you're like yeah but she's referring to him having saved her without her permission and it's like what do you mean they were killing you without your permission what he did was save you like you can now make the choice thanks to him you couldn't back then fucking millenials it's insane that like because it's what she wanted apparently that means he took the choice away from her that's not how that works and the fucking if you replay that scene joel was trying to revive ellie and the fireflies just knocked him the fuck out joel was supposed to believe these upstanding individuals fuck off like he doesn't even explain that shit you know what ellie my first impression of your firefight friends they're not really good they knocked me out they were just trying to revive you and I thought that was the last time I'd ever fucking see you again I don't know why you would conclude anything else if you really pay attention to everything that happens at the end of that first game it's like damn they seem almost like dr frankenstein levels of spooky these people yeah fireflies are assholes that's the impression I got and these are the good guys really he's taved to zebra for fuck's sake I just love him fuck off game what was just right oh right we'll roll him back we have so many issues with so many pots this game and they all keep getting built up in different points during one of the game's many flashbacks you get to see the scene in full we don't learn much of anything new by seeing it play out the beats are the same but this time we really feel the emotion we can't just be told that ellie is mad at joel I was angry that they're killing basically character assassinating somebody but I don't think that was the emotion that they were going for I would agree with him that I felt joel maybe way more upset poor joel because of the thing he's not exclusively out of character in this game joel there are a couple of moments where you're like that's joel hmm yeah there he is he did a nice thing and he's getting shot on for it oh yeah by the way unlike kylo ren he had a pretty badass last line yeah if you're gonna do what you want and just fucking do it it he's shown he had no right and you do this is also why you can't just need to leak spoilers for a story and decide whether you like it or not without actually experiencing the game yourself okay except the game was really fucking trash what does it mean decide whether you like it I don't think that's really much of a choice yeah I don't think that's how that works like if you read the leaks and you're given good reason to think they're real you're probably gonna then react what a lot of people do they just react and it's gonna be like a lot of people reacted to the leaks and the leaks were really fucking terrible and he turns out games with terrible too he's showing this screenshot as if it bolsters his point does it not fight his point yeah I don't care about 110 fucking game critics why are we still doing this this is like a fucking joke to people like us on eFap they bring this up all the fucking what do you mean are we gonna just decide that you can't play it both ways you can't dance around oh well when critics scores are good I can bring it up oh when critics scores are bad I'm not gonna talk about it do they matter or not I just need to know just so we're consistent on this because I think this is a super interesting set of numbers to look at and I wonder why that is I'll be correct me if I'm wrong but what did TLJs look like was it close to this with a meta score the critic score was high and the user score was like split 50-50 yeah basically let me double check well maybe he's trying to find out that some of the user reviews are just like disgruntled people I don't know maybe that was just we're also 10 out of 10 non-sense defenses yeah I don't trust that equalizes with people who love it blindly so what so how do we find out which one's right well we analyze what happens in the game just that we have to just play and talk about it because these fucking scores are beating less don't tell you anything because it's just a bunch of people who never touched it giving it either a 10 or a 1 out of 10 and I'll tell you what if we're gonna get super cynical here it's the critics who have a financial interest in giving this game a good score yeah and like I said if so if we reviewed something and we said it was amazing and both the critic and critic and audience score was zeros I'd be like I don't care and if I reviewed something I thought was terrible and both the critic and user scores were 100 I'd be like yep don't care huh after the stream do you guys want to say fuck Matthew Matosis you want to go see a MILF ooh yeah you guys you want to go check out MILF what a great of course the audience score is high of the critic score wait I have to see that so what this means is that only one film reviewer gave this a thumbs up of all the critics he stands out from everyone else he said it's kind of sweet and moving I liked it a lot oh thanks Tim thanks sweet and moving or when it comes to the villain character you want to humanize the story can't just tell me I should feel bad for them I need to be but that's what they were doing that's what they almost specifically did they tried to make her such a perfect wonderful angel and her father too at little time they had with them it was like I said it's super artificial none of this game felt natural this game felt like you could see all the strings on the puppets while you were watching this game I didn't even tell me why I should feel bad it's telling me why I should like her it was like yeah I feel like by the way probably you go out in the real world and your strategy is I'm just going to tell you why you should like also yeah Theo they do definitely do the whole you should feel bad the scene where they slowly just tighten up on her face as she cries over a dad's corpse I mean yeah the game is like feel bad for her the god of zebras has been defeated yeah I only wanted to save zebras you will save them now he's into care but showing scenes from the villain's perspective isn't just what we're talking about in The Last of Us 2 in an interactive medium the game designers having much more powerful weapon at their disposal they're just showing us the game yeah and this weapon blew up in their face I don't really utilize that weapon this game has some really have has a usage of interactivity I was going to say I'm assuming he's appealing to interactivity in which case I'm like oh please go there you got to throw the little chew toy the dog he picks it up is so adorable don't you like her now guys when you feel bad that the girl are like dogs her zebra saving father dies it's like yep that's a sad that's such a sad story that moment please cry yeah that's a good word for it this game does force really really all the time it feels forced yeah that's a perfect way to describe this game you will like this person or else or else yeah from her perspective earlier when I was talking about Ellie's section of the game I was using the word you because whoever you're playing in a video game you feel as if you are that no no no no no that's the ideal in some circumstances they don't come close amnesia half life games where they do so little to have the character on screen like characterize that you essentially imprint yourself you're just playing it games heavy with choice will often do that but there are loads of games you're like nah I'm playing and then name character yeah this game is a perfect example I'd say you know you're not I'm not Joel that's Joel I'm not Ellie that's Ellie especially when every time it's something meaningful to do they take controls away from you like really like for me the gold standard of games like this and any game with like a narrative with an established character that isn't like a player self-insert is you want the player to be able to like you want the player to be in synchronicity with the character in terms of what they want like you need to get your player into the characters headspace it's not enough to just make you physically move them that is by giving them choices and this game doesn't give you choices which is you down a set pathway I don't think you necessarily even need choices though that is very helpful a lot of the time I think the important aspect is making sure that what I want and what the character I'm playing as once are the same thing somehow you've got to get me into that shoes like killing abby yeah they're a good job making me want to kill abby imagine like you're playing the game through and you'll directly sit next to you and you get to the point where you're about to start the big brawl you know like your game is a fucking masterpiece oh thank you it's like I've got nothing other than the feeling of it's the right choice to kill the cycle of violence needs to end here you're so fucking deep and he's like well part 2, Naughty Dog wants to fuck with you I found myself humming they did I don't know why they really felt like that should be the goal above all else I did subverted expectations guys so it has to be good it means it's good I'm playing the song that played at the dance long after the game and doing so careful I don't know if that music is I can't even remember what the music was I couldn't even tell what genre the music was I got copyrights to claim for the music in the barn so be careful oh did you stream it I did a playthrough for my members oh cool any highlights with the AI already? but I had this music cut out hmm immediately brought me back to that bitter sweetness in that case we're gonna have to I gotta be careful then I found out that the song is a cover of Little Sadie by Crooked Still I don't care I don't care there's gonna be a really deep connection oh yeah but yeah there's gonna be a deep connection that nobody knows yeah but yeah but if it's such a deep connection that nobody knows it sounds like what I'll be honest with you I like shit like this but I would never use it as like a crux for why why it's good cause you can only learn about it in in retrospect while you're playing the game it's either you have this knowledge in your head already or you don't it's not something you can figure out yeah stop with the music I mean it takes like 3 seconds of music yeah but his it's not a stream cause they have different rules with youtube sometimes you can get taken down instantly with playing music Little Sadie is a folk song about a man or in this version a woman who matter of factly tells us she killed the woman she's with and tried to escape got caught and was thrown in jail we don't really know why the singer wanted to kill Sadie and she doesn't appear to have any remorse about it either but the heavy subject matter contrasts with the upbeat melody and the bright feeling of the story at that moment oh but can we pause you only know that like what ragn said if you knew the song either beforehand or you googled it just because you wanted to google the song after I mean like they're at a dance they're not gonna be playing slow ass somber sad music you know but is he going to say that oh but it mirrors Ellie's perspective later on in the game perfectly oh I don't know yeah I'd imagine so that's the way this is not he's one of the like this fucking archetypal video essayist this is one of the many common formats you just like look for the meaning and obviously me saying that is almost considered like completely unreasonable from a lot of these people but I'm just like oh well what I mean is like you fucking yank it from the depths of the abyss and then try to make it seem as though the whole game is excused in terms of execution for this piece of like these several lines you've connected across a crazy man board it's just like okay let's just ignore everything else then the violence that is about to happen seems to be seeping into the scene and that's exactly this game's MO but the problem is you know because it happened after it happened at the end it's not the beginning it happened at the end it's meaningless the violence is seeping into the scene it's already happened it's already happened in the fucking game by then yeah the game it's points fucking mute yeah it takes the difficult road of trying to get you as a player to modify your memories basically which is really difficult to do yeah because first impressions are you know so important and we latch on to those and stuff of that nature so you're already fighting an uphill mental battle and as disjointed as the story is and as forced as it is little things like this they ain't helping well but we get it you're super smart he turned on his brain no he googled something I turned on this I let yeah I googled the song and I extrapolated from that some kind of a deep meaning about that that is I guess it all works out it's already happened in the game therefore meaningless by this time yeah and also if it's Ellie here then it doesn't even reflect on Ellie because that would mean that she would have killed Dina and she didn't kill Dina and she didn't kill Abby and she didn't kill so what was the point of this fucking thing so the song is about a person who did something that could be perceived as an evil act but is playing upbeat music and so there's a juxtaposition and then he tries to transpose and say the scene is very upbeat but the violence is slowly seeping in and it's like well not really it's very sudden everything's really happy and they're kissing and they're dancing and some guy goes hey you're a dyke oh and it's not even that fucking violent I'm sorry words are violence watch this hey rags you suck oh my god I'm gonna kill you now there's blood look at the blood everywhere there's blood on the discord oh that's a cute blood on the discord sounds like an album yeah it wants to fuck with you it wants to make you feel contradictory emotions as often as possible but you only the only you can only feel the contradictory emotion if you knew what the song was I'm curious if it just means that in general in the game you can only have conflictory emotion if you empathize with the person that you're performing these acts with Ellie is a fucking dickhead and Abby is a fucking cunt so there's never any contrary emotions you just want to smash everyone's fucking head in but I don't understand you go from being chill let's just pretend that you get what you want from the scene which is we see Ellie and Dina they kiss she's like aww that's cute and then dude comes in you don't then feel aww that is cute and simultaneously frustrating you switch to frustrating and then Joel covers for her and you go this is cool and then she's like fuck you Joel and you're like okay the idea that you experience all four of those together I'd be like well no there's clear gaps it's just how tone works I don't know I don't really know how to explain it like I need him to be specific about what are the contradictory emotions in which scene exactly just tell me just right you can do it it wants to fuck with you it wants to make you feel contradictory emotions as often as possible mostly it does this by putting the player at odds with the character no I wanted to kill Nora I'm sorry I wanted the information I was more than willing to beat the shit out of it to get the information and at that point Nora said I will scream like a bitch oh no yeah that did not help I'm conflicted in beating her up for info oh no which made me hate her even more coming at that point which I was quite happy to smash the fucking head in this is the conflicting emotion part really so we're making the player oppose the character right that's the idea here okay right so why then are you making me hit square to proceed because that's the conflict will you press square dice I don't have another option the game can't continue without it so yes my other option is to quit the game out of protest that's not what I would call conflict that's just there's nothing to do and if they actually argued you could have turned the game off I'd be like wow good job guys yeah it's very meta solution the last game did this too but only at the end in this game I don't agree with that a lot of players will be absolutely on board with Joel at the end of the game absolutely I failed most people were I think they were too I think a lot of players would be like oh jeez I'm killing a lot of the quote unquote good guys however all of these gameplay sections are playing out just like they do with all the bad factions that's kind of interesting and of course you don't have to do it for the same reasons as Joel does if you're playing it you can be like you know what I think this is the right thing to do but maybe for different reasons but that's why I'm on board with this decision and if they were so great why did I knock them out and check them out they're far from great if they were trying to portray the fireflies as ambiguously as possible why portray them as pieces of shit that's my question to them because they didn't expect to make a sequel oh that's a good I think that that answer actually makes sense and then the double whammy is that once they decided they were going to make a sequel they for whatever fucking reason decided to try and make the fireflies out to be a totally good amazing faction with lots of great wonderful people yee that saved zinbra's strategy kind of contrast with what we're shown multiple times but okay play don't show or whatever it is right the last game did this too but only at the end in this game we're constantly reexamining how we feel about Ellie we like her from the previous game but now she's on a quest for revenge that is way over I can like people who are on a quest for revenge her being on a quest for revenge he described the quest for revenge as way over the top I'd be like please be specific what you mean by that the bride kill bill yes all the way through but god damn it so she wants to kill abby that is the revenge in order to get to abby she has to get through all these other people who are trying to kill her she kills them oh now you've gone far over the line I'd be like what do you mean what are you talking about what are you referring to specifically please tell me and if it's simply a number of people killed I'd be like so when in war once you've passed a certain line it's like no you need to go home this is going a bit far yeah there's the quota oh you got 10 kills good job but your kill streak allows you to your kill streak is you get to go fucking home the implication is that the revenge story was okay up until enough people died and I'd be like so what's the number Manny's head I mean but that was a good thing it was a very good thing we understand her anger but she's avenging someone who single-handedly did more damage to this world than anyone possible we need them all possibly possibly yeah that's a big possibly too a faction that knocks him out trucks him outside is going to get the power to inoculate who they want and they're going to become altruistic and and distribute it evenly amongst everyone they welched on the deal with him too the whole only went through fucking fire and water they went through everything you could imagine to get her here oh and I think southpaw said this they you think they wouldn't leverage the vaccine to gain more power for their faction all the issues we're bringing up are all contingent on the idea that they could save the world with this thing which is not true that is not true the world is fucked whether or not you get a cure yeah they could only inoculate living people at the moment that is it which yeah we're all of the how many people are dying to spawns right now between the factions well we're all of the issues with the faction in fighting wars do they have anything to do with the infection no it was just getting resources it means you're still going to happen not to mention the only thing this helps with is people walking into spores or surviving bites that's the only thing this helps with and those two things are not killing that many people these days it is but if you want to look at the kill count tied to faction warfare or to the infected ripping you to shreds the numbers are much higher they'd be a lot lower if you sent out people to deal with the infected and gave them stuff like armor you can't earn this and you can lay this at the feet of the vassifist one or two but it's two that decided to condemn Joel as having destroyed the world it's like okay well that's not true they didn't think this through because they want to be childish and say it's a cure all just chop off your head like okay simply could I did it was pretty good how many people are dead because those people are dead because they got bit by infected he's not the reason why they're dead well unless she's referring to all the people in the building that were shooting at Joel in which case I feel like they signed their death warrants at that point yeah I feel like if you shoot somebody you gotta kind of expect at least to a degree maybe they're gonna shoot back maybe they'll fly back with a flamethrower yeah literally every death that happens after the first game is Joel's fault no wow are you fucking away what is going on there's your take ladies okay they didn't switch the brain on the day they didn't switch it on how could you say that shit that's amazing we have completely removed agency from every other fucking character now no guys Joel off switch Joel the zombies still attack I'm sorry what does just right think would have happened had Joel let Ellie die what exactly does he think would have happened no everyone will get along and the zombies won't bite people but the world still exists the scars still exist like what the fuck I'm happy to leverage like the best possible like the most fucking idealistic outcome for that of okay the cure the cure would be instrumental in rebuilding the world I could agree to that even though there's a lot of you know land mines along the road there but why do people feel the need to frame what happened at the end of the game like this because it would make killing Joel justified in their version of the game even if it's a long shot the ambiguity is there but what about that worth Ellie's life so on and so forth but you've got one person how much vaccine are you going to be able to create and then you've got to try and distribute that vaccine world fucking wide yeah that's not gonna happen the vaccine might only take care of those fucking ten firefly people that they can get from Ellie the amount of death anytime anyone goes on any adventure we have to deal with hundreds of fucking clickers trying to rip our faces off but no it'll be easy to get this cure to everybody in the world nobody thought about this they don't care even though we've got two fucking vials of it and that's all that we can use the loo I'm sorry we will appreciate this poster fat Geralt what a fucking legend look at him I like how this image implies he needs a sword no sir now he's putting his sword away so he can get his fists out oh yeah I'll take that interpretation yeah that's that's how I see fat Geralt whoa fat Geralt why do you think he said that why do you think just right said that shit like I think he's pre-loading how much Joel's a bad man to help deal with the games narrative that is a poor take and like if you says it as if it's an understood fact so for example it's like when people go pose journey and TLJ was really interesting considering the huge mistake he made in the opening and then they move on to the next point like wait wait wait whoa whoa whoa let's go back to that what do you what do you mean by that and then they're like I don't want to talk about that I can find reservations about what Joel did without having to go for yep the cure would be instant guaranteed turn on the switch and everything's back to normal they'd be able to get it everywhere they'd be able to make as much as they want well this is the fundamental problem right to like question his actions we've had to deal with this before when people use the canon of the sequel trilogy to defend the sequel trilogy but some people are like Joel's motivation wasn't that in the second game though he makes that clear and it's like that's the second game you can absolutely decide post that this is that everything went through Joel's head and all at once he decided this is the thing he's going to do and you can have him admit that really none of that even matters because he's not going to let his daughter die again that's the ultimate yeah right but the idea that the game says Joel didn't think about any of these motivations it's like okay I disagree the idea that he had to go into his head isn't coming into his thought process like nah fuck off you find these things in the game you're playing as Joel yeah Joel is not taking it easy these decisions ergo Joel knows these things nah he just killed everyone it's Joel's fault the world's burning I think someone asked me a legitimate question in chat I just can't help but see Keari Mundi what about the fireflies attack on the military but yes the fireflies are not saints the second game seems to believe they are yeah and like the abby call it seems so hopeful like oh the fireflies can't rebuild the future that was the framing which really annoyed me what's with all the emotes in this post five guys sitting talking about someone else's video because these five wrote a lot of movies and games holy fuck you haven't wrote very much what movie and game did he write I do it as a hobby I've done anything and we're better at it so what now well the only response is like yeah but what about my arguments though yeah also just right hasn't so I don't know if he has actually maybe oh surely not because of how terrible he is the rags we're talking about a project that was horribly written by someone who wrote it oh yeah but we didn't write something else so ha I don't show this I'm more interested in the arguments please I was gonna say our dubbers are a little higher than usual I think we probably got a few randies in here who've not seen stuff before to a pretty pissed and that's okay you're welcome to like this game it is okay yeah you can like it it's just a shitty game oh no you can't say that I mean how did you your catharsis is your own I don't have any investment in it yeah this is the opposite of catharsis it's sister attack I just like the whole we can worry that sort of chair it breaks that he's like what the fuck this stupid chair what are you a carpenter shut the fuck up yeah yeah like a restaurant you can say that the food is shitty like are you are you a fucking cook like did you make a chair did you make a fucking chair no it's on one though oh it doesn't work can you tell me the mechanics of making a fucking chair work there's a counter we've had writers come on this show who do agree with our points of view on a lot of stuff so they go argument from authority we win god fucking got him drinker on drinker you wrote something that means your value is higher than ours do it do it do it oh I see her is that Harry oh yeah I saw it I see his amounts my good job fucking wrecking me with the most Adam so great can we go back to the other idiot that's talking we can listen to what he said again we're gonna do it here one could think about what he did I did it's fine it's justified doesn't matter not everyone that fucking died is Joe's fault okay bitch the fact that he said literally as well it's like no that means there's no room no room for discussion more damage no the zombie that bit the person is because of Joel fuck off than anyone possibly could think about what he did the turf warfare between the seraphites and the wolves in the second game is Joel's fault surely he's gonna justify it right because what the fuck you don't have to frame it like this to call Joel a shitty person no yeah you can make it very this is what's so beautiful about it writing why you can talk about how it's fully informed by his fucking loss of his child it's like come on because of him literally every death that happens after the first game is Joel's fault literally every single person all those people you saw strung up and had their stomachs cut open Joel's fault someone dies in space it's like Joel Joel the shoelaces there's two globs fight each other odds back at us nine and they die Joel back at us nine it's a huge boxing match I got syphilis from fucking that whore in that alley Joel fucking Joel well for brimley guys no Joel he stops getting low cost affordable diabetes medicine delivered straight to my door damn you Joel damn you Joel no does that mean all life is thanks to Joel too nope just the death just the death dude Joel is at the core of everything anything that happens it's Joel god damn Joel dude if you make him a good character also we've played this part like seven times but we can't play it without getting fucking pissed let's see if we can do it this time okay much to this world than anyone possibly could think about what he did how many people are dead because of him literally every death that happens after the first game is Joel's fault and every single person in the world has caused a shot pun it Joel just shot there as Joel's fault he said something after it I'm going to find out what it is one of these playthroughs is going to happen no no those houses on fire Joel is fire he's the god of fire just like orc yoda summoned lightning and burned down the sacred yoda sacred Jedi tree stump so too did Joel come back and lightening to all of those huts do you think these people who are a fan of just writing listen to that and thought yeah that's true yeah Joel is responsible for all of this let's pretend for a second the cure was as simple as they had a machine that takes a brain and generates infinite cure that spreads through the air all over earth instantly right and they let that happen it does it and then everyone is like how many times they start dancing with flowers and bunnies everywhere and it's just the best wouldn't prevent any of the conflicts that happen I want to know if the far flies of all of the research that goes involved you know that's involved in extracting this potential cure from Ali how is the surgeon the only person that can perform it surely if the research is there other surgeons would be able to perform it why if he was the only one who could as soon as they found Ali he was like shit I better make plans that in case anything should happen to me we can have someone else perform this yeah and how come afterwards no one else got that research and did something with it remember how long they've known that Ali exists it's been a fucking while yeah half a year or more than a year we'd say and I don't even know if it might be when was she infected cause Marlene knew about it really early on so like early in the game spring time early year whenever that was she was about 13 when she got bit yeah so it's been it's been more than long enough literally I'm only allowing him like a week of time before I would be like okay now I'm getting annoyed that you haven't prepared for this think about what he did yes it's still bad and if she was so precious why the fuck didn't they go to Ali and not vice versa and also some yeah of course we'll get to there eventually I don't know maybe we're sparing yourself from a worse fate but how couldn't you just frame it and say everything that happens in this game it's Abby's fault we're doing this the meme it's like it's no it's Abby's parents no it's Joel's parents no it's their parents no it's their parents it's just like the cause and effect chain we're going a little bit far with the cause and effect chain I would say Adam and Eve's fault Abby had no choice but to trek from Washington to Wyoming or wherever the fuck and do all that no choice here we go let's do it we can do it this time I swear literally every death that happens after the first game is Joel's fault and every single person in the world has caused to see him punished all right I'm going to take a bathroom break real quick every person in the world every person in the world has reason to see him really really though yeah I don't agree that might be best but every person in the world has reason to see him punished I'd really want to explore that with him because I'd be like you suggesting that everything would be better had he allowed what happened to Ali to happen because I don't really know that imagine the faction was the context of why Joel did everything you'd think that's a big fucking part of it you know well the surely somebody the element we keep kind of you know jumping on is like so the fireflies become the dominant faction because they own the cure but you know what happens when the WLF find out that in the hospital where the fireflies are holed up they have a cure and they're holding it they're going to attack them no everyone's going to get along because there's a cure like what a fucking naive perspective that the whole world should be angry at him because everybody would have been better off had he let what happened happen there's a simple answer to that it's we are the world we are children we are the one Joel did night 11 he was just fucking Joel I kind of fucked up that he did that Joel look off and yeah if he's appealing to the idea that Joel did an immoral act therefore people have a reason to kill him I'd be like yeah so that means people have a reason to kill basically fucking everybody in this world like everybody's been killing shit out of people that's kind of part of the point of the game isn't it sacrifice my daughter well then yeah Ellie has generated about a thousand abbeys in the course of the campaign all the daughters of all the men she's killed well the women too and the children too and the babies and so it's also hypocritical it's also tiresome literally every death that happens after the first game is Joel's fault and every single person in the world has caused it again because that makes it true Abby just has extra personal reasons to hate him but why how come her reasons are extra and personal compared to the others that was her dad he was her dad he saved zebras Abby doesn't have any special reason she's just the protagonist of the half protagonist of this game that's it I'm assuming he's appealing to the fact that she cared about him on a personal level rather than a general level she's an antagonist unlike anyone else well this is the thing they all love that guy they obviously portrayed it that way because he's a fucking golden god they were like oh my god he's such a good guy we just wanted to kidnap this person and take him away from the caretaker and basically throw him out to the world without any supplies and operate without a consent to kill her that's all we wanted to do why didn't he just leave well enough alone what an asshole Joel's such a dick it's fascinating to me that she's of course pissed at Joel for killing her dad and will thus kill him and if someone said wow I'm gonna kill you Abby for killing Joel for example with Tommy and then I could just picture it being like do you know why I killed him and then you'd be like do you know why I killed your dad do you we never find out if Abby actually knows why as far as I remember is there a reference to that I don't think so it was part of my issues that she never discusses that with Joel and I don't think she discusses it in general yeah like she's a part of this father-daughter relationship that's incredibly important and she can't possibly empathize with the idea that a dad doesn't want to sacrifice their daughter for the world fascinating to me yeah like what if your dad you know didn't want you to get killed like that like what would you do no but Abby's okay with it she says like if dad if I was a girl I'd be okay would you just kill him yeah people are saying she knows but like what the circumstances surrounding it is very kind of me like exploring because the Nora in the hospital realizes who she is of course yeah but people are saying she knew that the girl was gonna die and that she would do it in her place that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about why Joel killed her dad specifically like and also discussing yeah does she know that Joel was basically her father was cast away attacked by them not given any answers left in the dark yeah and of course it's not even just does she know it was it ever addressed and discussed or was it simply just yeah I knew whatever okay and if she knew and did it anyway you're making it harder on yourself for me to sympathize yeah it's really hard to sympathize with it but of course they threw in a dog they threw in some stuff hopefully it'll work kitchen sink there was a dog a while there's that moment where she says I'm the one that Joel killed your father to save or whatever she reveals it to her in the theater so she couldn't have known but it was so quick no that's what I'm saying the important thing is that she knew before she killed Joel was my point I want her to know why this is the big thing we've all talked about it why the fuck wasn't she curious if you meet the person who you know executed your father in a hospital setting wouldn't you want to be like why did you do it because it would cause this type of conversation it would actually cause questions to be asked and Kirkman didn't want that because we can't have the plot I want revenge begets revenge begets I know that people might be like well you don't want to complicate it right you just want to kill that person you want to get revenge well no actually I would way prefer to know the why especially because there could be a good reason to kill my dad there could be because something could have happened I know he's not the best of dudes he's not the zebra saver of there's people in the world who are perfect I know that but if I got a knock on my door and the police said hey we just got there's like a shooting at your parents house turns out your dad was like a serial killer and he kept kids and like orphans locked up in the basement and he'd eat them and stuff like that and I'm like holy shit it's like yeah we had to kill him because he got into a gunfight with us I'd be like oh well shit like I'm not upset at you I just have a lot to consider about our relationship like I'm not mad at you you know you can convince me some crazy happen you acknowledge that image there fucking episode six is because of there's a thing man everyone who dies in loss of us three when it eventually comes out as old Joel's fault too yeah do you think we're actually ever gonna see last year was three I'm not I don't fucking hope not dude holy shit they honestly I don't think so I don't think so I think we're done I think this is it I think after all this shite the last of us is not star wars I don't think it can recover because the core of the last of us was Joel and Ellie and they fucking obliterated both of them you could argue a true element was Tommy he's been obliterated so it's just like well everyone's talk but I mean he can't play the guitar so if the last of us three comes out it'll probably be marketed as please give us a chance please yeah please play the game guys we fired all those old guys I promise please we're a whole new team we're not even naughty dog they got shelved whole new team it's a woman now called Nigella Buckman world has caused to see him punished Abby just has extra personal reasons to hate him but on some level we want to see Joel avenged because the first game made us feel attached to him too and I mean Ellie doesn't know about all the bad stuff that he did so we understand she knows about a lot of it he was explicit with her he said that he would even capture unknowing victims and take shit from them oh and the ambush but I'll give it to him she doesn't know all the specifics and I think that's a way more interesting to explore but we never did oh wait she knows she knew the whole time this is what I mean when I say no this is I mean this is before the events of the game in like a sense of chronology but there's plenty of scenes in the game where she doesn't know about this the naughty dog wants to fuck with you the first class of us knowing what he did at the end of the last of us is not comparable to what he's done in an immoral sense throughout his life the implication is that he's much more immoral before he meets her as a survivor so I don't know about that because like man if he really did just beat the shit out of random people and take this stuff that would make it a lot harder for me to like him but that was apparently the history that he had and it was all about surviving that's why he's like number one veteran survivor in a post apocalypse he knows his shit and he finds humanity to be pretty fucking distasteful which you can imagine was informed by not only the events of the game but everything that came before it and that's why when faced with the choice of allial humanity he's like hmm maybe I'm a woman game had a much easier task all that game had to do was get you invested in Joel and Ellie's relationship to work the last of us two by the way he says that very matter of fact like all they had to do like yeah cause it's just that easy to get you invested in characters if it was that easy people wouldn't hate the last of us part 2 if it was that easy everybody would love all stories because this basic shit is tried all this fucking time it's a joke like how do you make people like Kate gay like I don't know give her a puppy I don't do puppies they did it was called Luke Fox true last of us two doesn't just want you to be invested but conflicted about your investment part three cultivating conflicted about our investment is that my fault or the games fault the thing is when you're exiting your investment as in you're invested and then you start to get pushed away I like that he considers that a conflict of interest rather than just the process of losing interest yeah it's a really deep emotional experience to have in a piece of high art you're just like right right right right cause so that brings us to Abby a character whose story feels like it was constructed on a bet like hey we're Naughty Dog we're one of the most successful game studios in the world everyone seems to like our story so let's challenge ourselves and do the most difficult thing possible let's get the players to low the character just absolutely despise them and then let's feed that rage for 10 hours of gameplay but turn it all on its head force the players to actually play that character and use every trick to make them why is he celebrating them for using tricks instead of using writing he's actually using the dog here why would you celebrate this you should be encouraging people to do way better than this no no show a dog her dad saved zebras look she petted the dog you have to play fetch you with the dog to proceed in the story do you care about Abby yet dare I say this is like the most fundamental like lesson 101 in writing characters how do you get them to be liked put a dog there that's probably the biggest biggest meme for writing I don't know that there's anything else like what's more fundamental than that you just accessorize them within the environment around them look they got a friend that they like ooh they petted the dog ooh a zebra I'm disappointed it's insane that this is being praised when it's the most lazy bullshit nonsense the most artificially contrived shit I've ever seen in a video game and what we've already been over who all of this whether or not it worked on you doesn't make sense of the scene we saw at the beginning it only conflicts with it it's confusing it's well adjusted kind like altruistic defender of innocent people after four years was it of not finding a father's killer just went fucking Hulk smash on him when it like the daughter figures screaming in the room to please spare his life this what we'd like we've described it several times there are several ways to run that scene where Joel still dies and you can still have it be relatively brutal because blowing his face off with a fucking shotgun is more than enough to create some horrifying images but instead they have it brutally torture him and thoroughly enjoy it while calling him a stupid old man why would you call someone stupid before you even knew why they killed your father and that they just saved your life you he was stupid that would help me save you yeah oh shit this guy I came to kill he saved my life I'd be dead if it wasn't for him wow I feel so stupid old man just like huh lucky dumb yes and that's just what I'm like just right setting it up to be like isn't it so amazing that they took such a hard challenge on board and I'm just like yeah they failed they this is not congruent with what we saw and the content itself was very strong okay and also guys what do you know Occam's razor the simplest explanation is the most likely one what do you think happened they like the story and they thought it was great or they set this up as some sort of challenge I mean Occam's razor only applies when everything else is equal but I think for this I think that it's just they really thought they were hot shit yeah okay I thought they they thought that they were such incredibly good talented writers and they were so big fucking brained that they could do all of this time skip emotional manipulation dog tossing zebra savor narrative nonsense and get away with it because they're so damn good because we're naughty dog and everyone loves naughty dog nobody doesn't like our games we're the best of the best we made the last of us seven years ago but we've made lots of games they're all beloved and I think they just got high off their own off their own farts yeah they were in a fart sauna that's how it kind of works but like the uh they put out shit like the interesting thing is if they like if it was literally like I want to fucking beat the shit out of Joel beginning the game and I know fans won't like it but we're gonna make them like it all right that's the goal even still I'd be like all right I mean are you good enough to be able to make that a thing I wonder like what I'm trying to say is whether or not it was this retarded fucking idea at the beginning of them just being like I want to do something this crazy rather than how do you think this story would unfold with these characters in this world I don't either way they bungled it yeah I really truly believe that they thought they were so fucking clever that they could take a character that killed the beloved character from the first game and make you like them by the end of the game I really think they thought that I got a question Mahler remember of the guy from Game of Thrones what oh fuck I forgot the names already David Bennoff no no the swordsman guy there's a lot of swordsman guys the guy fucking his sister this is embarrassing Jamie had a better arc even though in the beginning people didn't like him so I was thinking how did that work but Abby doesn't well yeah that's the thing that is what the idea I think with Jamie was but the point was that you can justify all of his choices from the angle of him being a good man all of his perceived negative choices well with Abby we're like she was really upset though and like I said when you take a good person and make them really upset to the point of killing someone how they kill the person is very addictive of the character that they are yes and that's why seeing her do all of this which by the way I don't even know that this was the best idea I don't know that it would have been better to have her spending time with her father rather than showing how great her life is with all these survivors and how good of a person she is I don't care how good she is doesn't help explain that scene it just it takes it away but how much she loved her father and the relationship they had that will help something else that will help is for her to understand perfectly what Joel did and condemn it instead of just going I don't care why you did it I'm going to kill you which by the way I only think they avoided as said because they don't want to have to deal with justifying her choice to kill him after she knows all the facts because that would be hard come to empathize with them and not only that but we'll write it in a way to empathize with her at least a little bit then they're the ones being hypocrites because she'll have become more morally defensible than any of the characters the audience likes no because we know what you're doing you made it so transparent while you're doing it this isn't even about Abby it's about us and Naughty Dog and Abby is the I don't know it's the ball in the court that's being tossed around we don't buy your shit this game is super artificial people don't even think of it as in-game universe a lot of the time it's like oh this is a game company trying to tell me something we saw what was going on and anyone who already wasn't on Abby's team as most people probably wouldn't be considering she killed Joel brutally then goes no I'm out fuck this did you catch the last thing you said before I hit pause there hypocritical yeah something about hypocritical well not only that the audience will be looked at as hypocritical but morally defensible something like that Abby became more justifiable than any of the other characters that the audience likes that's a bold statement to make like holy shit just right you seem so sure of this seems like something you'd explain but of course video's getting long so you don't want to do that okay if they don't empathize with her at least a little bit then they're the ones being hypocrites because she'll have become more morally defensible than any of the characters the audience likes and doesn't that make I mean putting inside of course that they tried to make every character would do like horrible right how is torture morally defensible this is the thing I don't know if I'm hot taking it here with the five of us but I don't think she's more morally justifiable than Ellie no because if you're if you're going to talk to somebody you're torturing them for something for information etc but she's torturing she's torturing Joel for pleasure satisfaction for pleasure for personal satisfaction to yeah and we that is never explored either yeah and remember remember when when Ellie tortured Nora she was conflicted afterwards yeah and how could you say that Abby is more moral than Ellie it's it's so weird someone suggested could he be being sarcastic possible no I don't think so I didn't unless he keeps playing well because I want to remind you guys killed a pregnant lady Ellie starts experiencing the horrors of PTSD yeah and then the prospect of killing a pregnant lady to Abby is pleasurable yes so who's really more morally justifiable just right I'm curious okay well I wouldn't use develop PTSD as a moral gauge choose to have PTSD isn't linked to like one's character well I mean figure of speech was the fact that she completely regrets it filled with guilt yeah absolutely yeah it's not something she wanted whatsoever and it implies if she had known then she wouldn't have made that choice which is interesting because as everyone's pointed out before she puts her fucking prega belly on display in every other second we see her in the game except that moment and she chooses not to mention that she's pregnant neither does Owen yeah in the way of the plot the whole fucking story is built this way and this is what we fight regularly for an EFAT we get annoyed that everybody has all these grand ideas but no one cares about the scaffolding you place to build your fucking house they just build it with paper and sticks and then they walk on it and they fall they get impaled on a piece of rebar and it's like wait there you go and do you know whose fault that is Joel's fault he got impaled by a piece of rebar in the first game see it all comes together Joel's fault I know someone mentioned Ellie does it in self-defense while Abby has defeated her two enemies and chooses to execute one of them yeah lots in Abby's but of course you see this scene where Abby's like la la la I am happy with Lev we're gonna make it to the fireflies woo it's like yeah she's such a good character look at look at Ellie she's sacrificing a family life to come and pursue revenge what an awful disgusting human yeah don't show the scenes of Abby being kind of friendly, mystic cause that wouldn't make sense if she was trying to stay nope never mind about Abby killing all of her fucking friends in the walls on the island as well to get off so that she could save somebody she met fucking 12 hours ago yeah it's just ridiculous shit congratulations okay what do I mean by every trick in the book well the first trick is itself the name of a book save the cat which is a book I have a lot of reservations about because it advocates for writing formulas but is also famous for the save the cat idea which is an early scene in a movie where the main character does something unambiguously good or at least impressive to get the audience on their side can we talk about the game that is the key point the first thing the player should have seen was Abby being a good person and this is like hours in the fucking game yeah that's why if it was done in reverse it wouldn't seem contrived and it wouldn't seem artificial and we could get behind it we wouldn't feel like we were being tricked exactly this is just and I don't care about the stupid fucking cat book yeah this is just right I was going to say like in fairness this is like his whole he can't make a video with that reference according to this book well according to the lyrics of this song according to the 18th century philosopher Figgled Forgledork and actually uses post transcendental congenitalness herpes to create no one cares tell me about the thing let's look at the thing we're talking about do it see she's not so bad the save the cat type of scene can sometimes be a little cheap but it is extremely cheap cheaper than cheap it's doubly triple mega cheap it's actually cheap when you've seen a smasher guy's fucking head in with a golf club no remorse for it what's the fucking ever I'm thinking about it and I think I'd probably call it cheap in the reverse order to but I'm not certain because I wouldn't like I can't say that for sure well it's the obvious question we have to deal with guys are you saying that no one can ever save an animal no no and into someone chat I'm not anti-book it's that I'm anti you like in a video like this is just stuff you put into you throw in this stuff to be look how smart I am that I know about this book you don't use the knowledge from the book that you've gained what you do is in your video you you don't just use the knowledge from the book you've gained you make sure that everybody else knows that you read a book in order to get the knowledge that you're going to use to present right it's like the intellectual version of virtue signaling well yeah it's not just doing the thing think of all the things we've learned from each other right and then if I quoted any of you every single time I used an analogy or thought process that any of you have enlightened me to every single time you know people wouldn't do that because who cares however if you're dealing with a quote from the great Ergelman Schausen from you know 1970s Germany you'd be like whoa that's what does he look like a big beard he sits in a chair he's got a glass of wine nice well what I just said was all a quote from him and that makes me look smart he's my favorite he's my favorite too and yeah I've heard of this book was referenced in I want to say the closer look looks video apparently it's one of like first books people tend to read in relation to screenwriting and stuff which is not a hit at it it's just that god damn it just use your video to teach instead of being like this is where I go let's just keep going I guess let's see where he goes with it save the cat alright to get the audience on their side so in Abby's first flashback she saves a zebra see she's not so bad the save the cat type of scene can sometimes be a little cheap but it is effective like I just want to remind everybody that they live in Washington state United States of America and they've come across a talking zebra in the woods to save from a trap mm-hmm just to remind everybody what we're talking about here right and this is what and also in this video do you nothing was gained by him talking about the book that time could have been better explored exploring the concept right which would have been useful because you're trying to defend a game that's really shitty let the most contrived bullshit ludo narrative dissonant game I have ever seen in my life this is going to be like one of those primo examples of how not to do video game stories how not to develop characters and how not to set a sequence of events or how to do so in an attempt to emotionally manipulate the viewer people are not going to let this one go this one's going to stick around and I'm a good way the exact opposite reason the first last of us will just want to ask a little question about this last little sentence of his how can like with a scene like this specifically of this kind of type just because of what it's trying to do I don't think it can be cheap and effective I'm glad you brought that up because I was about to as well right so why do you call something cheap like well usually because it achieves what something else achieves but it does it in a way that you didn't have to work in any way hard to do extremely low effort so the effectiveness of it doesn't actually change how cheap or rich it was that's not like so he says it's cheap but it's effective it's like well yeah we're calling it cheap because they're trying to achieve something that it takes a lot more work to normally do but they're trying to shortcut to it and he should know that it's fucking right it's not excusable it's fucking embarrassing especially with especially with things like this with such a hard sell you've made with abby you can't you can't be taking like the cheap way out seriously just surprising in the why the fuck would the designers also give her a relatable and empathetic motivation she loses everything because of joel not just her father the idea the idealism of the fireflies the idealism of the fireflies is gone what does that mean the fireflies were okay if my parents died I wouldn't lose everything in my world I'm not saying it wouldn't be a big hit but and I feel like the fireflies aspect what does she know about all that the fireflies did because they have to try and ret con a bunch of stuff about the first game to try and make you feel sympathetic for the fireflies and make them look like they're good and they're great and wonderful so I guess that creates confusion as to what she knew and then we as the viewers we have to process this sort of quote new canon about who they are because it's being reframed in a way that's just contradictory to what we used to know it's just it's not true before we carry on seems that somebody has been made aware of of that quote and wishes to share some thoughts and of course I'm going to give you no clue as to who it is oh here we go who could it be who could it be who could it be who could it be oh don't get this structure copyright someone said that someone said rags that's cold about your parents is like no it isn't it's the opposite because I would never insult my parents by saying that if my parents died I would have nothing left of value in this world I'd like to think that my parents raised me a little better in fairness I feel like we're conflating a figurative use of the you word world versus what rags is talking about so if someone said my world is gone when my parents are killed in front of me I can understand what they mean by that however literally everything about your world is gone when your parents are dead it's like well no no one would be right to say that there's plenty left including yourself it's a difference it's just conflating I almost I would actually argue that just right as being emotionally manipulative right now is to describe it as her world oh him? no no anyway yeah free what's going on buddy oh thank you so so I very recently woke up and Moorla directed my attention to the quote just right said that every death in this game is Joel's fault so oh can we just like talk yeah so fat okay so has just right at any point really discussed the whole fact that what the fireflies are attempting to do is is fruitless and that they're very much in the wrong in many ways okay right so Joel travels halfway across the country and then when he gets there the fireflies just wake him up and like hey yo someone we're gonna kill Ellie we didn't ask her and we're not gonna let you see it and we're not gonna give you your guns or your gear fuck off bye and apparently he's in the wrong for being a little bit peamed about that putting to one side the fact that a cure is not gonna fix anything it can't it's over like it can't fix the people who've already been infected and if you get the cure it's like oh cool is that gonna help you when a bloater rips your face off is that gonna help you when a clicker rips your jugular out is that gonna help you with any of the people in the world who are hostile to you how how like what's your plan for distributing this cure what do you have no infrastructure like and this is all assuming that the cure would actually work which I'm inclined to believe that some random doctor in the middle of a post apocalypse taking somebody's brain out and getting like these like I don't see how it could possibly work and and again like can we trust that the fireflies are going to actually use this benevolently or are they gonna use it as leverage are they gonna use it to manipulate the government are they gonna use it to usurp power there's there's so many things they're like working against this cure and the fact that the fireflies have demonstrated themselves to be ethically dubious that would be like Joel like hey how can you just paint it as an unequivocably incorrect decision I don't understand and like how is it Joel's fault that the wolves and the seraphite whatever the fuck they were called what why is it his fault that those two decided to obliterate each other why was it his fault that what every every single death that's happened since he died is his fault like I can't I can't take it he's wrong and I'm guessing this is the only wrong thing he said just wrong automatically fixed if the cure existed you see yeah I just like the idea of hey you're cured and then a bloater comes up to it's like yo whoa whoa whoa um um you can't get me dude and then the bloater is just like ah shucks and it just walks off I guess that's just the end of the apocalypse I've I've been scrolling through the memes and the e-fap podcast talk about Joel being evil and some of these are amazing any other ones you post in um in our channel on screen oh there's so I yeah sure I'll go through some yeah yeah I could do that yeah I'll get some of these and show them I'll get the good ones I like how the end of the game um it is revealed that the main problem that Ellie has is that she thought her death would have mattered and it's like sorry it wouldn't have helped anything really you're getting upset over nothing well well yeah oh oh shit hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha it's all Joel man it all comes back to Joel what the hell's wrong dude can we have a chat about how Joel caused the great depression can we have a chat about how Joel started uh the war in Afghanistan the black plague it was Joel yeah um that meteor that killed all the dinosaurs I mean you know if Joel hadn't just had just you know taken it like a man the way without his gear hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha I want it highlighted that just right scored incredibly high on meme factor when we were judging the creators and he's not failed hahahaha Joel you're the Joel Wilkes breathe Joel Wilkes breathe hahahaha hahahaha oh it copied that one a second time that's weird uh give me a second it like resets these every time I oh Matthew Matos has just uploaded a review for the wasps too I'm excited I like that all of us are probably going to watch that as soon as the stream ends hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha I've heard he's not as hard on the game as one might expect but that's just from looking at people's reactions yeah I think he's like he looks at it objectively I mean he rarely actually says this game is really good or this game is really bad in his videos he just breaks it down hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha Joel just screaming find the halflings hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha someone doesn't watch this fucking show it's going to be like why is somebody memes Joel killing people what's the idea of it hahahaha oh god the ultimate one hahahaha no Joel no Joel stop oh no oh no why oh no how could you have done this hahahaha Joel killed Joel well every death was his own even his own oh fuck off it's so dumb why would you say that he said literally too he's dead literally I just like the idea that once Joel dies it's like dude that guy who stubbed his toe and then I don't know got some crazy infection Joel if only he hadn't been such a dick look at Joel man just ruining everybody's day fucking Joel hahahaha oh my god that's amazing hahahaha fucking some next generation knife out memes Jesus some next gen Joel except there won't be y'all did this like he wasn't saying Joel she was saying y'all did this y'all did this she has that southern drawl you know like some kind of shit what do you you guys excited for knives out too oh who isn't you like knives out guys no we thought it was really bad hahahaha hahahaha damn it Joel somebody Joel memes I just saw that one that's pretty funny just right why why must you always provide us with such entertainment by accident hahahaha so this is one it's nice it's just funny hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha for the last of us two for the last of us two all the problems that it has is that the memes that have come out of the last of us two are insanely insanely good insanely excellent maybe really good hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha and the spelling is I'm big excited hahahaha so hahahaha oh yeah it wasn't a particularly good point was it for you yeah for you loaded there Jesus well guys just woke up to deal with this shit so I guess we'll carry on hahahaha hahahaha brings laughter brings me life man like hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha do you want it or are you gonna I'm gonna hop out I'm gonna yeah hahahaha I'm gonna get some food that was yeah thanks thanks for uh showing me that clip no problem that's exactly how I want to start the day every death is Joel's fault just play totally straight not a hint of irony maybe this is like the absolute wrong perspective nothing of the sort just play totally straight hahahaha that is wild so Joel how many more minutes do you have of the video left we are six and a half into fourteen and a half sorry there's more to come dude this is one of I've already got stacked up to there's gonna be three faps on the last of us two at least so it's just gonna go on for a while and this is the tame one guys this is the tame one this is the these are the people who don't aggravate their audiences we got next time will be the aggravation ones what is what is the plan that you want to make a video on this game or yeah or not oh yeah I haven't told you that haven't told me no I guess for you and for the audience after I had finished the second stream I went to bed like annoyed and then I woke up annoyed and I was like why am I annoyed exactly and I was like it's a fucking game that fucking game like still thinking about it and then I played the third part the third part was filled with so many fucking shenanigans like from the games mechanics and the story and then I was just like yeah this is happening and then I looked into like the sort of separate elements that make a game and I was like I have issues with every single fucking one of them outside of things I guess like I guess the acting is the stuff that really is coming to you I mean the graphics are nice yeah but I do want to ask you like we are talking in console land right like we're like yeah yeah like it's nice for a Playstation 4 there's a lot of fancy aliasing little gimmicks things going on it's fine for a console I mean it's always cute to see and try well I guess it's that thing of like when I play games on consoles I'm always surprised by just how much anti-aliasing there isn't there there isn't really anti-aliasing at all or at least it doesn't feel like it and also the frame rate drops a lot in this game just watching people's footage of this game is painful to watch it drops big time like if you've got five or more enemies like on screen at once trying to get you like yeah my game froze so I like it it's hard to say it's hard to say that it's fully a technical achievement when like the AI is part of the tech and the AI is deficient oh that's actually what I meant to say rather than I got someone to say on all of the technical parts I had someone to say on all of the set pieces rather like every significant part of the game I've got problems with did you have because I don't think I've talked to you about it yet the the whole wolves seraphite battle what do you think of that you know what we need to we need to hang out and I need to show you a bunch of things that happened in my play through doing that because that that part has some of the funniest AI moments in the whole game well I saw the one where the AI was standing on top of the cliff and kept getting shot it's like why are you I'm coming to find you you're dead dude that man had bowls of steel he was like I don't care if he shooted me I will stand here and I will stay you down I think the more that I think about it I remember in that that suburban area there's a I was playing in that level and there's just one choke point you have to get through like a house and then there's a well on the other side I ran through and hid behind the well and they lost me um like where is he but there was only one place like where is she there was only one place I could have gone and now I'm just thinking about when I'm playing this game like huh maybe the AI was like worse than I remember it was because when I played it the first time I thought it was better now I'm not so sure you felt like the on mechanically the game had just simply improved from the first one right yeah not a lot but a little bit I felt I feel like it's a downgrade and there's there's a couple that are definitive downgrades because they're not even like inconsistent they're just a strict like the bottle brick system is actually worse than it was in the first game and I don't know why or you always want to have a brick or a bottle with you yes yes but the bricks are better than the bottles they do everything bottles do but they can set up they can do insta kills themselves southpaw is a better explanation you can use the bricks to like beat people up of course the layered brain mechanics are that if you are holding a brick and you have a ball beneath you and you're in a room with a guy you can be like hmm if I replace my brick for a bottle and I can kill him with the ball and then have a brick or I could use it as a distraction but this game requires that you destroy the one you're holding to pick up another one which so I always want to destroy the really just removes options like why why would you do that because um yeah I couldn't tell you I don't know why that would be the case yeah you just said bricks can stealth kill clickers oh that's uh that's nice and handy and so yeah yeah it's all it's all very fucking stupid it's the point it's kind of it's kind of like disappointing because there are things about the design at least you know the whole idea the the the crafting system is pretty nifty I've always thought it was pretty nifty but it almost feels like it's a minimal you know like they could always they could always have been more but again it's console third person action game that's kind of the problem you know you have to combine you have to combine what is it is it is it rags you have to combine with scissors to make a shift yeah I think so yeah you have to you see as I said before scissors you can't just use those as a you have to combine cloth with it and then it becomes a deadly stabbing weapon but only for a little bit and then it breaks but it requires the cloth it's very important you have cloth with those scissors you have I stand by the worst example of that sort of gamey game fucking with reality is that you can only hold two batteries and outlast on the hardest difficulty because anymore will fucking break your your pocket obviously it would be nice if the game lets you carry more than three of each item though because it's often that you have more than three and then you just have to leave stuff behind or you could just carry a lot but the requirements for items are just higher so it's not like how come I can carry three of this extremely yeah any light object it feels very annoying to have an item there and just be like well I guess I gotta leave it here awesome also I the game has these little like I remember I was watching a developer thing with a like you can sneak past all these enemies but it's like but can you though really or have you set this up to where it's basically impossible I'm inclined to say that most of the time it's it's basically impossible to sneak past all the enemies I'm sure there's a game had people who can do well I mean all I'll all I'll say is that they don't allow it for every sequence for sure they don't allow it for every sequence but it's also like when you want to get past you can't just like it's not like Deus Ex like a good stealth game where you can just get past them you get to a door and yeah like you get to a door and you have to hold triangle which gives the enemies an opportunity to see you so it's a little bit annoying and then often if you close the door behind you even if you haven't a lot of them the door starts banging as if they know where you are like I remember sneaking past a group they didn't know where I was and then I close the door like boom she's on the other side get her it's really awkward it's a door you're opening up in like some building relatively late into the game or mid fucking whatever it's early or it could be abby I really can't remember the point is that they as you're pushing the door open the area is clean but then suddenly it starts running at you and I'm like oh I'll attack it and then I got myself killed or something because you can't leave the sequence you have to keep pushing the door open it's like no no I'll attack it why would you do that two more turned ups like I can handle three clickers I can handle ten clickers honestly Ludo narrative dissonance is off the charts in this game because there are so many instances where it's like I could win if I was playing but you've decided that I'm not so now I don't get to win well dude when do you remember the sequence where you open a red door and a giant dude grabs you and he has it's the first introduction of the pickaxe people where they like double health bar yeah I remember that when he grabbed it I just started laughing at my play through because I knew what it meant like as a game I knew that this guy will have more health and he'll hit harder but he'll be slow yeah he's he's big I mean that's that's uh that's enemy design 101 the fat guy has more health what we're discovering is like in a Mario game that works so fucking well it's just perfect in a game we're like we're becoming a real mature people games like you can't keep this shit when you go that way well I remember uh what what I I guess it's like frustrating that arbitrarily the game will make you lose you know it's like you can't win you compare it to Ghost of Tsushima where there's only one instance like right at the beginning of the game where it does that and never again will it make it to where you can't win through being able to play the game I don't know I just well now this is just gonna be me praising that game because I just finished it yesterday and I think it's kind of great it's really good and like story wise it's it's a lot simpler but it works wait wait wait wait wait wait I gotta fucking seriously chat like really and there's a super chat about it so because rag said you have a shiv whether or not you have tape attached to it they're like rags don't you know about grip do you know anything about grip okay allow me to explain to you what the fucking hell Jesus Christ is so obvious what his point is to ever send you to ever send that super chat thanks for the money you fucking Jesus when you have I want you to go and Google a picture of a pair of scissors right and I want you to notice that one of those is the pointy end and the other end is the fucking part that's specifically designed for your hands to hold like I don't know how to explain this in a way that doesn't make you feel like an idiot I'm sorry if you're upset about that then I think that you should only blame yourself hahaha so I want to what I said you have to combine cloth with scissors to make a shiv that's a joke because that's obviously stupid and nonsensical even if you only have one of the the blades of the scissors right you still have a loop a circle that you can hold on to and yeah you just look like a what's it called a carambit the one that's what you just used it as a thing you poke people with yeah yeah point they use every pair of scissors is two shivs that are connected on a hinge they used in movies and in real life to kill people okay yeah I don't it's a real object is like this is what that's one of those ludonarrative dissonance things really clearly a game game or that it's because the pair of scissors and combine it with cloth to make a shiv and I'm like no no no that's like saying you have to combine a shotgun shell with a piece of barbed wire to create a shotgun shell you know it's it doesn't make any sense you're adding extra ingredients to make it less effective and there's more than like free correct me for wrong first game you need alcohol and rags to make a med kit or a molotov right I think that's the case yeah rags and alcohol do not give you a molotov that's not how that works no you need a bottle to make a molotov however I will still give that more props than the shiv because at least you are combining things that are necessary to make a molotov even if you don't go all the way also that's better James just said in fairness they're called blades in the game and the image is a scissors but in fairness again when you pick them up in the game they are just a pair of scissors so like you want to combine this with cloth to make it also most most blades have handles like knives household knives things like exactly they're literally meant to be held while cutting things they're meant to be used by people yeah people are just distribute shards of metal that you can't hold with that so here's the razor blade for this it's like it was thrown out as a casual thing by rags and that he's called out for being wrong about like not understanding the value of a handle it's like it's just I'm not actually upset whoever you are I'm not upset I'm just having fun at your expense I'm just poking at you but like seriously come on now come on now this is like I was born at night but it wasn't last night okay I like it what was uh what were you talking about I think I was saying that I thought Ghost of Tsushima was pretty great I've heard good things I've really not heard any criticism yet well I mean I mean it's um I guess the cameras a little bit I also guess I don't know if this is like a complaint but more so of like a I guess I could have used more combat options but it's you know I guess that's again that's one of the problems but like I like what it does I wonder this is funny right because this is made by Infamous which had a morality system which I was never I really like Infamous but I don't think the morality system is helpful in this game I kind of almost feel like I would have preferred it if they let you decide whether you wanted to directly pursue the samurai path or the shinobi path um the game kind of decides what you're gonna do or at least it judges you as though you've made the same choices consistently throughout the game but still I think it works for the story that they're trying to tell um and I was really impressed by how it ended um it's it's a really good ending oh springy isn't that great that you could choose the ending also well I I don't want to say the shitty ending revenge is bad mk yeah well it's uh it's funny though because I've been watching people talk about the ending I'm like I don't know guys I feel like I feel like you just don't understand some people making one of the choices oh well there you are there's choices in the end all right that's fine um but yeah what were you about to say rags I was saying is it like um because I expect it'll probably be out on pc in the future if uh things are to be believed maybe oh really well I mean you've got right and stuff like that um death stranding uh so is it like a souls game or is it just an action basically there's it's it's kind of like yeah but with far great open world shit so basically it's it's like a open world game where you explore and it has like outposts and stuff because open world games have outposts and everything but it's more like uh from a gameplay perspective like a moment to moment I'd say it's less dark souls and more like it leans more into sort of the action you know like kind of like not like devil may cry but more like that with the whole idea of you can tell when somebody's about to stab at you and then you try and parry them and then dodging and then trying to uh I guess Assassin's Creed might be because a lot of people have described it as the Assassin's Creed game that they never made because a lot of people wanted if like a feudal Japan or China based one and um then it just never happened and so they made it and also has a lot of really cool like features because um it has a Japanese voice dub out of the box and also has a I keep forgetting the director's name Kurosawa uh I butchering it aren't I the where it has like a black and white uh it's a lot windier yeah it's a lot windier in that one too and the camera the camera tools like an old Kurosawa film yeah exactly because the game is very clearly inspired by those films I think that sounds pretty cool someday I'll give it a look and visually it's stunning visually it's um it's it's kind of it's incredible it's soup it is stylized it's got lots of like fields of uh like yellow trees with these petals dropping a lot of the battlegrounds are really like cinematic looking but they actually let you play the game so it's nice so everyone remember stylized is better than trying to be super realistic because you can actually do stylized I think I think that's an example of uh where video games have a lot of advantages over film because they couldn't have done a lot of what they did in this game visually if it wasn't a game um which I think is better I think uh at least as a way of doing and also something that I think is really nifty is that uh the game doesn't use waypoints it has it has like dynamic wind and you follow the wind to find out where you need to go hmm it's like we'll never tell you exactly where to go but if you like sweep up on the controller then the wind will gust in a direction and then you just follow the wind to where you need to go there's a nice there's a nice like idea in the game that like the natural world is on your side and trying to help you like you can run into a fox and it will lead you to a place where you can like honor a shrine and then get extra uh yeah to put bonuses in or you can follow like a bird that will just fly over your head and it will lead you to a hot spring where you can like write a haiku and stuff you can make haiku in this game it's very Japanese and I like it a lot you should have gone for fucking show I really love the game too guys that's why I'm trying to butt in it's just a great game I also like the ludu narrative resonance the opposite of the last one yeah because at the beginning the characters like a rigid samurai but so when you have encounters you can wander into open world but there are options that don't open to you until you reach a certain story chapter and after that there's a cutscene oh I want to talk about it it's a bit I think you know what I'm talking about right you mean the whole idea of how like tears it's sort of story so that everything is kind of like contained and then it moves you into the next section and then it opens up and then it moves you into the next section after a big critical story point yeah and it opens up really great gameplay options like can I spoil it a little bit I wouldn't I wouldn't guys it's a really fun game I encourage that everyone plays it that's all I can say if you don't want to get spoiled I really love it I think that's a fair thing to say about you like I really enjoyed it I might be biased though because I think Sucker Punch in general is pretty underrated like I really like I don't care about that movie do you think that movie is underrated oh no I don't think it's generally known as being bad so I was just taking the name and having like I could frame this in a way that Fringy is defending the movie Sucker Punch is older than the movie Sucker Punch I don't think so I don't think so they came up with it they invented it for their crazy amazing story about this has been a nice break from the the tisms in the video but yeah I will go get my food now alright I'll see you guys later bye bye bye see ya bye bye baby also hi as are you doing oh I'm good you still live you're still kicking you're still doing this so I know how long have we been going for who's the timekeeper nearly six hours that's like eFab one through 20 time you know that's terrible we're all gonna be upset at us we don't at least get to 10 anyway just right take it away oh my god she loses everything because of Joel not just her father but the idea of a better world all the idealism of the fireflies is organized as an organization and is forced to find safety the bigger goals of the organization also or she just really loves her dad that's a question I have I mean this is the kind of stuff I think they should have explored in her campaign instead of just dealing with the everyday stuff of the WLF but she's got muscles now oh she does mention that something about the fireflies were all about rebuilding society I think she mentions that at some point that's what I mean that's the problem we should be exploring all of it it's all just horseshit when you hear these things and in the first game you get a completely different contrary notion and you've actually experienced it physically in the game then it just sounds like bollocks it does yeah yeah well what are you gonna believe you're lying eyes because we don't it would be interesting just to know that if she was just spouting the ideology of the fireflies and then you know you got to the fact that this wasn't actually what they truly were who they truly were but no I think the game I think the game was trying to retroactively go back and try and paint the fireflies as a much more realistic sort of group which again makes it really hard to empathize her world is gone and the fireflies wasn't a particularly good world so slow leading her to become a ruthless soldier in a pointless guerrilla war pointless guerrilla war I don't know about pointless, I don't know about that well they explained the point the peace treaty was betrayed it's not um something that you can tread lightly on so pointless is interesting but alright not what I'd call it because that would be wrong if I said it to deal with her trauma she has physically transformed herself becoming as strong as possible so that she can avenge her father no no no that is an assumption that's not a definite fact at all and it can also be contradicted by the fact that she isn't the one that goes to go after Joel she takes all of her friends with her so they're going in as a mob mentality not an individual and it was like it was nothing that uh she spends what was it like four years just she's doing her own thing and then she's like oh we have a lead as if to imply the building up the strength thing was sort of just I guess what she wanted for the post-apocalypse just your everyday survival was good to have big old gun guns mmm like the idea that it's all getting hardened by the experiences and stuff I'm like yeah that's the part of the game I think should have been in there but it wasn't and it's like you can imagine good things about things you know what he said show don't tell at the beginning of his video well that's what he thinks that's how that is no it's telling not showing I mean he's telling us and well well he's making assumptions and not showing things that being shown that she has tree trunks uh after her dad died and she was sad means that we can infer she's doing it to avenge anyone who should ever cause pain to her and her own again and I'm just I'll never look at a strong person every time I see someone who's really buff I'll just put a hand on their shoulder and say I'm sorry if you're lost yeah because I hope I hope you get what you're looking for because it takes a very specific thing into like training fine you know you can train yourself to be agile you can train yourself to be faster you can train yourself to be a better shot all these types of things putting muscle mass on slows you down makes you stronger yes but where has it been shown that Abby has been about physical strength in any of the flashbacks well this is why I was talking about training if she were prevented from doing anything about the fireflies in the hospital and her father she was prevented by something in relation to strength as in she couldn't lift something it would be much more relatable if you saw her training to be quicker training to use firearms you know that sort of training this muscle business is fucking dumb as fuck that's a polite way of putting it you know imagine someone's someone actually in this place has placed a whole bunch of cabinets and shelves in front of a set of double doors that she needs to open to get to her dad because she has gunfire and she's trying to push them all away but she's not quite strong enough to get there in time you know it's cliche but it's something for us to work with you never wants to be in that position again you're like okay but yeah you can build physical strength without actual massive muscle mass yeah I know you mean it's all it feels like it was the car before the horse they wanted to have super strong lady and then they were like how do we ah fuck it it's such a distracting thing to do though I could never take this character seriously looking like this oh well the second I saw her I was like wow Ben flashbacks you can take her seriously because she looks like a normal fucking thing I'll be honest with you man the day to day people I see in the real world not many guys have arms that big no no because it's really tough and it takes a lot of training and dedication and consistency and a caloric intake and before anyone says it's a post apocalypse that's different I'd be like most the fucking characters in this game have three arms of theirs can fit inside hers I mean I'd say the fact that it's a post apocalyptic makes it less believable because of the insane caloric intake you'd need to do to be able to expend the calories and exercise that it takes to do that should never be out in the world should just be in the gym and eating and sleeping I will say though my issues with this game that one's lower on the list compared to a lot of other things I think believability and the relatability are very important aspects and when you got fucking Hulk smash running around this makes it look farcical I was so out at that point that I was loving running around slapping people's heads into the ground I thought it was so fucking funny if someone was like you're enjoying the game I'd look at them like you could call it that I guess in a pointless guerrilla war we get to see what her coping mechanisms are to deal with her trauma she has physically transformed herself becoming as strong do you imagine we had scenes where she's punching like like Avengers where Cap is punching the um bag and he's having flashes to being frozen and waking up and stuff just just again cliche but this is way better than having a broken scene that doesn't work at all where she's just spending her life constantly training because she can't handle the thought of not being able to fight back but like where was that yeah it's like someone can even say abby you know you're working out again for the 8th 12th time today or whatever you're like come on you need to relax you need to chill this is all you're doing it's like no I have to get strong you know stuff like that you know you could have this would this could have a relationship built up between her and another character where the you know they do think two different people and we could learn about our character and stuff like that but we didn't get that I think as far as the as Naughty Dog went they just wanted her to be the protagonist and they're like we gotta have her be super buff and strong if this is gonna be even close to believable so that was just the end of it apparently Neil Druckmann thinks this criticism specifically is dumb but I it immediately says to me like what about the other ones Neil do you want to address that why is this criticism dumb it's not a dumb criticism like he thinks that it's more than possible he's taught look at him he could get fucking blown over by a strong wind for fuck's sake this guy's got no fucking idea about getting this size maintaining this size as far as I'm concerned you just needed to push a lot of the narrative onto it to you have all these scenes that are designed to tell us more about her and her relationships and the struggle of being in the WLF and in the meantime in all these scenes she can take place in the gym she can be in her room and using a dumbbell while she's talking to somebody it almost gets to cartoonish levels but we've gotta earn these muscles it has to be cartoonish in order to justify what we're looking at you gotta live and breathe fucking training we can avenge her father a great parallel to ellie whose body withers as her quest takes its toll on her it's a contrast to illustrate what meaning if that's supposed to be all about themes and thematic aspects what is that supposed to mean how come one withers by the other is remaining super buff and incredible and it's this shit again where it's like but just right she's been skinny throughout all of the two games and in this scene abby is withered even more so than she is what the fuck do you mean you can't just use and pick and choose whatever the fuck you want to fit you now it's so annoying like you're ignoring all this shit oh but it sounded good yeah it sure did it sounded great and you put a visual with it to trick people into thinking it was the truth because you're not actually good oh and it doesn't really show let's say that ellie's body does wither throughout the game we don't see the muscle building part she's just thick at the beginning there's no contrast there's no this thing he's saying it's not happening in the game I love the idea that she spears abby and then suddenly she gets like fully ingrown into like this healthy fit, muscley woman and ellie's like oh my god thematically this is very relevant oh my goodness they both look at the camera revenge they both look like fucking males they both look like one looks like a boy and one looks like a man can they have sex I think gay would it's just this thing about de-feminising females every woman in the game is you know de-feminised to such a degree well you just want naked women running around that's what you want I would yeah I just would like a woman to look like a woman and I think you know when you look at the way that they took the face the face actress for Deena and then you look at the you compare what her body was like compared to the body she was curvy yeah she was curvy she had you know nice body and then they put her face on to Deena and Deena is pretty much got the same body type as ellie and then abby looks like a butch man just like you know what is it with what is the notion you know you don't have to you can have a normal woman non-sexualised you know it's just such a bizarre kind of attitude that they have nowadays I just don't understand it I don't understand why they're so keen to to try and turn because abby is very much meant to be a man that's what she's meant to be in this game she's meant to be the physical presence of a man she's carrying the weaponry of a man well as it's often said her story is supposed to mirror jolts in the last of us one yeah but he wanted a female to do it and then ellie looks like a boy her girlfriend looks like a boy they have a terrible stone of dialogue there's no chemistry between the characters i think it's my biggest criticism he hasn't spent any time whatsoever to make them talk to make us understand why they like each other there's such a disconnect with this game because all the foundations all the stuff that it should have been built on which is characterisation doesn't exist it's all superficial everything is superficial in this game from the pretty graphics down to the storytelling everything's superficial looks good looks nice, nice lighting but then you get onto the tough part which is the characterisation and the story you can't just pump money into it you need good writing and you need good characterisation ellie barely says a fucking word in this game she's just like yeah i think we could have used a lot more discussion on just all of the issues throughout the game from the characters i mean so when you get like dina saying i'm pregnant it comes across as laughable and stupid because first of all she put it in competition with ellie and confessing that she's actually immune to the virus but when dina says well i'm pregnant it's just like why are you playing a game of one upmanship with each other oh my god that's exactly what i fucking said when i was watching it i was like oh i was like oh no dude to brag it's not a contest but i said that as a joke just like why aren't you fucking discussing it wasn't the dialogue here and then jesse comes along sperm donor as i like to call him because he's just a fucking sperm donor in the game he's got no personality it is nothing to him he's just vanilla there's nothing to dislike about him but there's nothing to particularly like about him he's just there to be another fucking victim being shot in the face quickly barely makes an appearance yeah he gets forgotten by all the characters just and then when he dies no one gives no talks about him after he dies never mentioned again apart from that if you read the if you read the fucking letter from the parents and it's all it's done is in service to give ellie and dina a baby so they can have their family unit well obviously you can't have a family unit with two females unless you have a male to provide a fucking offspring with so it's everything so fucking contrived and laid up for this relationship that is never ever fucking built on in this game it is never enough yeah i have to agree with that it's not really built upon yeah that's why i didn't really care that's the problem it tries to be very realistic but it's the most gamey game like i've ever seen like it's all so fake it's all so fake it's like a play like you're ready for the curtains to pull out i cannot give you i cannot give you one reason why they like each other i can't i can't give you your own reason why i like him never feels like that invested in like talking to one another yeah it's very non-committal just casual small talk which i i'm down like i've said last time i'm down for some casual small talk scenes because generally they can give us time with characters you know in a funny learn a relationship or whatever how did you rate this like that degree come on that is that is so fucking inane how do you rate our fucking kiss like in and imagine a version of this game that's good where you have ellie going and leaving their farm or whatever to go and get revenge again and we actually really were cared and invested in these characters relationship or like no don't go what you have here is amazing and that's that don't leave it like uh well i think that was meant to be the point yeah that was supposed to be the point but nobody nobody cared yeah i'm just like i don't know i don't fucking care i just go kill stuff stuff things happen funny though the um the flashback she has when she's reminded that she needs to kill abby is of joe that jesse doesn't show up at all he fucked she put a bullet through his skull but you don't even yeah it's joe but it's joe and it's not dina and it's not it's no it's no it's joe none of the other characters mean anything that's why they're meaningless people in this in this fucking game yes i was like tommy didn't even get a shit about tommy he's like who am i i don't know i used to be somebody now i'm just somebody that you used to know abby also has a relatable fear she's afraid of heights and at a critical moment oh who could give a flying fuck about this i'm afraid of her not falling from heights that's what i'm afraid of i feel like most people just jumped it right off as soon as they could this just but it didn't this didn't connect either it's sort of fear of heights is the thing well i mean let's hear his argument i guess well yeah i mean if hitler was afraid of heights then i think history would have played out a little differently i just feel like our memory of him he withers as her quest takes its toll on her abby also has a relatable fear she's afraid of heights and at a critical moment in the story she has to face that fear and overcome it again getting the audience on her side what you do is the game yeah the player does it the player of the game yeah i mean if it were a cutscene i guess she would be able to argue she did it but like i don't you take my agency away from me and it kind of improves a little bit but why would she the getting over her fear of heights have anything to do with helping me understand why she killed joan how i should feel for her the effort's all in the wrong place yeah like this doesn't like air about again it's all in the superficial it's all in the superficial it feels like they're trying to achieve a different goal at this point she's a human it's like i get it i already knew that actually i knew it before you should be any of this yeah it means i'll know she'll be sad when i kill all of her friends are you scared of spiders abby's scared of heights hashtag relatable have you got a vagina so is abby maybe we're not actually sure call these things tricks they're just solid techniques that cultivate empathy for a care you said you could call these tricks for their solid techniques it's like no there are tricks but it's like no let me stop you right there yeah copy a trick and a solid technique yeah unless you're a magician no i'd like her to not make a video on the difference between a writing trick and a writing technique go ahead because i'd be curious how this doesn't fall into the trick category to create this moment they had to have a magical crane fall between two skyscrapers i don't understand how you could possibly call us anything but contrived it's just a basic attempt at manipulation but i don't think it would have even worked on many people i don't care she has a few of heights and she's trying to get over it okay and as someone's pointing out didn't he call it a trick earlier yes with the dogs it's like yes so what are you doing yeah if you have a character who does good deeds sometimes has clear fears weaknesses and traumas chances are the audience is going to connect with them oh no wouldn't no fuck off no that's not true at all in a neutral setting he might be right but we're not dealing with a neutral setting yeah yeah means like oh this is Ralph Ralph likes lasagna i like lasagna too wait he's basically saying if there's no context then you might relate to them but there's there's context here and context has got to be taken into consideration we'll just bring up Hitler again if you saw all this with Hitler how do you feel it's probably not going to do much for you what if Hitler was wrapped up in barbed wire and we cut Hitler away Hitler prances off into the far it's a Hitler he's like oh nine years old oh nine years old barbed wire my head thank you first the fungus men but most importantly though is that the game designers give abby a completely impossible desire she has all of these conflicting emotions for Owen who she's definitely in love with but who she rejected because she's still not over her father's death which is that why or is it because what wait what I thought it was the love triangle yeah I thought it was because he was in a relationship with someone else who he had gotten pregnant and she knew that if she pursued him further that would create some huge issues there I think that's that's kind of how it was framed with Mel that's her name right with Mel yeah so I didn't I don't amazingly amazing baby which just suddenly appeared I'm confused I'm not sure exactly where he's getting that from I feel like he'd show us a visual of the scene that that came from if he had one yeah I'm curious too I'm thinking maybe I miss something he was present for making him a constant reminder of it but then when she gets her revenge and is finally move on with her life getting together when is that when through that I am getting lost I don't remember the game doing this I I don't want to be cruel right but if I had to look at that fucking face every day well I'd fucking want to get killed by Ellie as well Jesus Christ look at it she's always so annoyed as well throughout the game just resting each face every fucking minute with that with Mel she's definitely this is max volume on just right we do with but who she rejected because she's still not over her father's death which he was present for making him a constant reminder of it but then I don't know about that she gets her revenge and we can't we can't I can't love you we can't be a thing you remind me too much of my dead but like I don't remember wow thing though I don't remember that at all I need a reference but I don't think I have one why is she wearing the most unappealing fucking shirt in the history of humanity in this scene because you can't sexualize women yeah and she also loves to watch Dexter's favorite TV show I'm very lost on this reference father's death which he was present for making him a constant reminder of it but then she gets her revenge and is able to finally move on with her life getting together with him I'm sorry are you framing it as a good thing that she got the revenge so she can finally move on what the fuck no and it the point of the game is that that's not the case yeah woke up this morning feeling fine dragged all across my head on my mind she even has the nightmares and she's not satisfied after killing Joel this is why people fucking hate this game because it actually implies that Abby did the right thing and she was gonna get a good life except for Ellie ruining it because of the cycle of violence and it's like what how the fuck because it's okay when Abby gets the cycle of violence but when are Ellie the person you care about when she does the cycle of violence is super no good very bad by our product him is impossible because by the way that is a 20-20 20-20 break can she I haven't always done the right thing you're a piece of shit Abby yes thank you yes I'm on hashtag team mel um yes so his argument is she wanted to hook up with Owen but she couldn't because he reminded her too much of the trauma that was her father's death but once she'd gotten closure on that with Joel she wanted to pursue him but she couldn't because now Owen was with Mel that's what he just said I don't remember that being a thing in the game oh me neither I never remember that did we ever get any scene between Owen and Mel talking about her or was that just never something that I'll have to watch him again because again I'm lost I'm waiting for him to provide me the reference because I I don't know what it is there was there was some scene between Owen and Abby where Owen's just like that's let's just fucking go yeah let's do it and it was it was right before this wasn't or it was it was it was right before this wasn't it just before this yes yeah that's the funny thing right before this we were obviously highlighting it didn't stop it did it it's okay I did not aww step by step the game has built empathy for Abby no no okay okay step by step the game has tried to build empathy it's funny because the developers told us to feel empathy it's like on the scale she went from on the scale she went from zero to negative 100 that they were like we just chipped in one and one done it's like no she's negative 97 still you might want to do something about that I guess yeah taking her from the simply drawn villain of the prologue to a multi-dimensional dynamic character that you can actually dynamic as an inconsistent sure very dynamic yeah I would I would argue that they did damage to our understanding of the opening scene with all the context they provided this which wasn't even a lot of context it's more so just understanding her everyday sort of life for in the back half of the game if this character was presented to us using all of these techniques before we saw her kill Joel I'm pretty sure it'd be less controversial of me to claim that she earners the player's empathy but she was introduced to killing Joel so there's this massive hurdle stopping people from caring about the character yeah but that's a problem of their own making and it baffles me and it will continue to baffle me why they decided they needed to make that hard on themselves I also want to dispel this bullshit let's pretend it was the other way around so we got to like like her we got to see all of her life and then we follow her into this scene and then she does that to Joel in front of Ellie while saying he deserves it and then her friend spits on him I'd be like yeah okay I don't give a fuck about you anymore it doesn't work either way I just think it's a really stupid way to have done it regardless like if you're going to choose one out of the two there's one I'd recommend the important part is the disconnect between this and what she's doing here and the fact between like this scene and all of the informative background of like Abby she's a good person because they're not related to each other and one doesn't inform the other so one can't really change an emotional reaction to the other yeah and that really gets into why this game is so interesting to me there you go there's Mel without baby huh no I think as it's just pointing out that her stomach doesn't really indicate that she's gonna blow up in three weeks yeah I'm gonna fucking squeeze a little and that really gets into my interesting to me because the hurdle is there no and she was talking with dummy yeah you could yeah and the game is entirely about perspective part four I hate that sniper oh my god he's gonna do the thing I thought donkey was gonna do right yeah he'll actually do it it's just right he'll do it the section of the game where you're pinned down by a sniper you can't try to shoot back or you'll just take damage so you have to run between cover and crawl through the mud just to get close to him yeah yeah it's fucking annoying as mechanic that you've played a thousand times before you know why it's here your inability to fight back makes you quickly resent your opponent motivating you to defeat them no I love her he it's the opposite I wanted him to succeed I wanted the sniper to win yeah unfortunately there's dissonance because every time I get shot through the head my fucking mallet explodes I get told that's gay hey wait a minute we've been gave over is it the game over then haven't we won well when you win that is game over didn't shoot at her yeah no it's Tommy Joel's brother one of Ellie's friends and the character that you probably like it's incredible emotional whiplash and I know it's not well it's funny because I was so on board when I found out it was Tommy if you look at the clip I say something like please give me control of him like I just want to be able to kill her please it's so exciting as well because he's already killed one of them so it makes you feel like it's possible even though you know it doesn't happen because she turns up in the theater there's that fleeting moment where you're like he can kill her too he can kill her too please do it do it in the cycle I think it's trying to make you self-aware of how easily your emotions can be manipulated by no well first off insanely ironic thing to say I know one of those ironic things I've ever heard a human being utter in their life so easy to manipulate your audience huh what a puppy fucking hell come on that's like the number one it's a very interesting look the game is teaching you that it is interestingly easy to manipulate you it's like why do you speak this way because I love Abby because she saw her father save a zebra in Seattle and because she had a little dog I heard about dogs from the 1794 novelization of the game from 1627 Edgar Rice Burroughs adaptation of What Doth Life yeah sounds like you got manipulated just right I'm so sorry you're in a frame because the designers framed the scene with Abby as the protagonist we hated Tommy for a moment he was the hero that we all needed never a point where I hated Tommy I might have been frustrated with the sniper but it's not even the sniper's fault it's the fucking mechanics he's impossible to stop and he shoots a million bullets a second for forever no it's also like yeah and he never runs out of ammunition also yeah yeah he does when Abby goes through the door right because he decides suddenly that he's had the advantage the whole time and you'll give it up for no reason it's like cool well this is the second time it happens in the game because Ellie does it with Abby instead of just waiting for her to walk through the door and fucking plug that cunt she just decides no I'm just gonna hit her with this something I'm just gonna hit her with a club and Tommy the fucking brilliant ass Tommy does the same thing I'm just gonna maybe hit her instead makes sense it's genius and I'm just helping the word manipulate in a derogatory sense because stories are inherently manipulative define manipulative no it's the same shit as everything is political so there's a fucking scale okay the idea that everything in a story is designed to manipulate you because the ultimate goal of a story is to make you feel or something like that it'd be like yeah where did the fucking Lara just come Yara come up from at that point that's what I mean there is a difference between someone earning a payoff and someone just contriving it because they just want the feels he's like well hey everything is manipulation so shut up it's like oh fuck off he's supposed to teach people how to change a time he's supposed to teach people how to write that's his whole fucking thing and he's like you know what it's all manipulation lol when someone's calling something manipulative they're like clearly appealing to something else yeah it doesn't take a genius to figure that out then all appealing to the fact cheap why is he now it seems like he's welching on it because he knows that it'll damage his assessment of this game being strong well really all stories are manipulation so there yeah thanks for that that's super useful it doesn't make the last of us two any higher but it does drag all other stories down yay went there and I'm not using the word manipulate in a derogatory sense because stories then don't use that word don't use the word the whole point of language is to convey thoughts to as many people as accurately as you can so don't use that fucking word when I describe you as a complete come to the derogatory term well it's like that video we covered from the person in the last video they said it could be hyperbolic but this film is perfect it's like okay so words do have shared understandings keep that in mind when you use them because the designers framed the scene with abby as the protagonist we hated tommy for a moment there and I'm not using the word manipulate in a derogatory sense because stories are inherently manipulative that is what they are trying to do that scene forces us to experience in microcosm but the game is trying to make us feel as a whole both of the main characters are in the kill the sniper mindset for most of the game just blind rage against their enemies they have entrenched world views where no my rage against these characters is very well informed I'll have you know it's not blind I I was not all revenge is blind not how hatred is blind the facts about reality inform what my emotions are more others that first year uni student again like yes hello I know it's another person that person I want to get revenge on well if anything you could you could argue that abby's was blind because the fact alone that if father was killed by this man is why the man has to die be like wait should we get more facts meanwhile Ellie knows all the details and she's chosen that abby has to die I I just I just I just and bad guys on the other the wolves as entirely evil which in her mind justifies her extreme violence against all of them when dina question the wolves are going to war with the seraphites and there doesn't seem to be much it's not like Ellie's hunting down all of the wolves simply because well wolves must be bad they were all complicit in the room yeah so she has reason to fucking hate them not to mention that most of them are trying to kill her in each of these scenes I don't know without any questions feels really weird is this line of thinking by pointing out that the wolves have shown mercy being hunted down by the wolves certainly wait what's the point is bringing up bad guys on the other Ellie sees the wolves as entirely evil which in her mind justifies her extreme violence against all of them when dina questions this line of thinking I don't know I think that's the problem with the game the game really forces you into getting into these combat sections with them when there's not really a reason when the game is offering us a chance to spare an enemy the enemy either falls over dead or pulls a gun not to mention this is the fact that for some reason has put our kill on site order to everyone yeah like the most pathetic part is the jordan guy debating with another guy to torture Ellie first or just kill her that's the most ambiguity we get from these fucks it's like yeah it's such a fucking he's ignoring so much of the game just to narrow it on exactly what he thought that is you can do this but good god do you miss out on so much sorry I'm not sure he's playing the fucking game based on her extreme violence against all of them we say the same thing about movies here of you oh yeah well we said about most people on e-files you're so wrong we're just like curious if you watch the source material for no reason out that the wolves have shown mercy Ellie shuts her down why didn't they kill you and tell me when they had the chance because we needed a game to happen yeah but why do you think that they didn't finish this in a similar way yeah it doesn't matter whether or not they spared her she's getting justice for Joel's fucking horrific murder no and like okay let's find and we find out the reason in game it's like it's like Abby has this misguided sense of superiority and morality it's like we'll let you live and you both wasted it if I burst into rags fucking house and blow his parents away and then I leave him alone and he comes back to kill me and I'm like rags you didn't even think why I left you alive did you like so like what that's not really relevant I have an issue with you for another reason but even if Abby said to Ellie before they knocked her out they said look we came here for Joel not you that's it yeah that would have been way better by the way another thing they missed out on yeah so you couldn't oh god this fucking thing you have to give us stuff to work with our brains need most functioning brains need material actually in the game to inform our decisions in the way that we feel and if you don't provide us with that stuff and I don't what do you want us to think we're just going to go by what you give and if what you give isn't sufficient for what you want and I mean what do you want us to do I can't believe Joel forced you to kill rags parents we're seeing Abby sees the seraphites the religious cult that her faction has been at war with for years as entirely at fault for all of the violence between the two groups another much like any faction war yeah I don't think that's big brain that's just normal their secondary character questions this belief early on oh god is he about to reference the incredibly over it scene yeah but that's a bad thing that makes Abby look bad oh my god the scenes awful though it's it's the it starts with this but this but this but this and it comes all the way down to some kids messing around and the point of the game is wow don't you see all this violence is for no good reason like well done game you did it you did it excellent job the story and just like Ellie Abby initially shoots her down we let her guard down and they strung up an entire squad that was in retaliation to us shooting those kids many their kids it's not their fault not our fault either those deaths are on them we don't even know the context how old are these kids what happened exactly no it just shows it just shows how it's fucking hateful and selfish and hypocritical Abby is and that's the point though yeah but you should empathize with her but she's selfish yeah but you should empathize with her so fucking oh my god this is a character's perspective that is worth playing through the game for another 10 fucking hours okay thanks game not our fault either those deaths are on them it's always the seraphite's fault that the wolves have to annihilate them but the arc of Abby's story is basically pretty fucking shit yeah they're awful like they seem really bad to the point where I'm getting the I'm getting the fallout new vegas vibes it's like great game but there's clearly a good faction clearly an evil faction yeah everyone should have to go to the Caesar's Legion they're the good guys right it's like if the seraphite here's the thing and what did we talk about earlier is like if you want to feel bad about killing people have those people be not evil for starters not evil not to mention the WLF are all these normal people walking around the seraphites are like hyper cultists with the whistling and the preg to this statue made of like whoever it is and it's just always the larger girl they're obviously portraying them as the crazy ones that's why it would have been really interesting to have Abby then go to Jackson and see a fucking normal society then suddenly your world view gets turned on its head because you've got these your crazy fucking ultra violent faction you've got your religious nut jobs and then suddenly you're going out on your revenge mission but you come across this settlement and people are normal and of course the other how do you play with your idea of life another idea for the game that could have happened but again not necessarily superior ideas it's all about execution but you know she worryingly arrives when looking to kill Joel cause she for some stupid reason goes to try and attack a patrol on her own at night in the middle of a blizzard with armies zombies everywhere either way she gets taken back to Jackson and she actually has to live with them until she can get away from them and we actually have to watch her interact with the person she knows to be Joel which again is another piss-puppies around they could have had her get injured fall down break her legs something like that you know in some way that would have kept her at least with them for a few months or so and yeah of course you'd have to have her be treated well by all of these reasonable normal people that are a reflection of the place that she came from and considers home and strong and so that creates loads of conflict for her Abby could have been a really great character oh well she's got muscles huh huh she didn't save a zebra why would I care about her yeah exactly fuck you non-zebra saving me zebra GTFO Joel went on in the first game someone who the world has beat down into an amoral monster who eventually restores their own humanity by caring for a child in need by helping Lev she comes to acknowledge okay so amoral and immoral aren't the same thing earlier on you said he was extremely immoral hmm and I want justifications for all of these things besides I think he was referring to her in this instance oh he's talking about Joel well no I'll throw it back I'm pretty sure he's talking about her he said like Joel at the beginning I think I'm not sure and they strung up an entire squad that was in retaliation to us shooting those kids it's not their fault not our fault either those deaths are on them and you know what's the worst thing about that scene the scene after that when you're just controlling Abby and it's just Mel uncomfortable with what happened in Jackson with how Abby tortured him and Abby gets mad at Mel for oh I'm sorry I killed the person we hate or some shit like that it's so fucking dumb that would be another way to actually endear me or explain the situation get me footage of the Trek back with this entire team of WLF with them all acting really awkward around her and then you get a big payoff scene with one of them it's like what the fuck did you do back there what the hell was that what the fuck is wrong with you yeah we wanted to kill him but geez dude this is not who we are why the hell would you do and again that's more so the characters highlighting how nonsensical her choice was but it's something blind rage anything like the flashbacks we watched it was funny with like you got some of us hurt and got us in trouble by taking so fucking long dude that would be really funny if one of them were like how could you do this we're all so friendly almost doesn't make any fucking sense yeah we're shockingly good and likable we gotta go take care of Matty's dad he has arthritis very cool Zebra recently someone said that Joel was probably the one who set up the Zebra trap yeah it only makes sense he made me if you watch that scene again he's in the background behind a bush he's like me he set up the Zebra trap almost had Zebra stakes for a month annihilate them taste like victory make sure we catch the names our fights fault that the wolves have to annihilate them but the arch of abbey story is basically the arc that Joel went on in the first game someone who the world has beat down into an amoral monster he's describing both of them at the same time so Joel is definitely included who eventually restores their own humanity by caring for a child in need by helping Lev oh no no no no no no no no no no no no the first game actually had some fucking character building and a great story Lev has turned up being fucking data from Star Trek not understanding fucking basic words no relation it's super official again I think it restores your humanity it's generous a moral detached monster well this is the problem there's only one scene you can describe it that way I wouldn't, yeah I wouldn't well maybe do it's not what I'd call that again that's the problem every scene we see her in outside of the theater ending and of course when she kills Joel she is this pretty nice girl, pretty reasonable you know outside of the cheating thing she's, I would say she's a pretty stand up citizen she's quite intelligent resourceful like she's got a lot of good traits she's got issues with her people like as a character we've got stuff to work with I would say she's not like a ray or anything but then you put those two scenes on top and you're like well now I'm confused yeah who he is you just don't go away well yeah I don't see how all this blends together and it's like don't you see society has whittled it down into an amoral monster that's not present at all outside of those scenes I didn't do that to her dad well he says he was to acknowledge the humanity in her enemies, renounce her previous loyalties she acknowledges the humanity in her enemies but she don't renounce her previous loyalties for if anything other than misunderstanding and because of an alternative it's like she where was the scene of her talking about how terrible the WLF was yeah cause she, it's very it's very gamey the way that the hell happens running through rooms and rooms killing Sarah fights and then suddenly WLF's like I guess I kill them now there's no like she desperate like the way I would probably do it with the limits of this shit I would have a cutscene first when she tries to get past one of them one of them spots her you run they shoot her and then she runs into a safety room and she's panicking she's like they fucking shot at us I don't understand like what is that allowed the point you have to you have to do it by degrees you can't just have a walk from room to room being like well I guess all these people that I've been friends with for my life are people I gotta kill now alright yeah you have Lev being like wait why aren't you treating them then she screams Rey and then she runs in and starts blowing them up in fairness he's pretty good at shouting Rey a lot of people make fun of him for it but he nails it I really get the sense that he's using a three letter word to really take a long time you know I mean he makes the three letter word sound like a ten letter word no everyone is memeing in chat about all the horrible things Joel has done Joel killed MLK Joel raised Catholic Kennedy oh my god Joel cancelled the sequel to the Mad Max reboot oh Joel Joel went on a plane with two girls is that really cancelled now they're not gonna make another one I guess not if they said that I mean I thought everyone loved it they made a lot of money I guess not the Mad Max sequelated years back Joel did season 8 oh no oh no I mean like he's a monster but calm down perspective he's and try to lead a more noble life come on those were your fucking people you're my people yeah that part really fucking confused me because I was like Lev we've just gotten done killing like hundreds of your people yeah like what about all the friends you had like surely like some people you like Lev you've been a part of a faction that's been fighting our people for like years there's so much to say about that moment what is happening there these are your people killed one of my people it's like yes there's a normal faction war happening right now also we have killed like 6000 of your people it doesn't really mean I don't get it oh but you know both factions are shooting at her at this moment it's the weirdest time to call out Abby you know maybe she's just saying transvestites transsexuals are my people well even then even then she should hate the what are they called WLF because they're all bigoted and stuff they're all bigoted do you think it was like a line they thought was clever but it was actually just dumb as fuck yeah probably bless but in playing as her for 10 hours the game asks the player to basically go on the same transformative arc with how they view Abby yeah but the thing is also the difference between Joel and Abby is that the joel journey is not in free days also it's like in the fucking year it's Abby's journey as an emotional roller coaster for free days and she just goes oh I'm going with this kid so dumb so fucking dumb this game is fucking dumb so rude turmoil all of this all 20 hours of it is really there to build up to one big payoff the showdown at the theater it's a violent confrontation between oh wait he's going to praise it because the thing doesn't happen well I want to show you something that I saw on the subreddit okay so we're going to play the video in really slowtisms keep an eye on Abby's finger and the well the shots from the gun okay oh it's real shit back to the beginning 10 hours the game asks the player to basically go on the same transformative arc all they view Abby okay maybe before a little bit of this alright here we go all 20 hours of it Jesus got a slow nulled him we're really there to build up to one big payoff the showdown at the theater it's so violent it's not even on the trigger not even on the trigger that's what you get for good trigger discipline this is the kind of things you catch in the 12 hours it takes for you to brain the thing that you're going to you just think as slow as you make animations you catch stuff like that really there to build up just it's weird to me I don't know how it happened but yeah but I did notice that it's something I look media something I notice like is your finger actually on the trigger or why the fuck is your finger on the trigger you're like sprinting through a building with people everywhere hey chat yeah do you know who was the programmer for that no Joel oh Joel was the Joel was the animator for that fucking asshole Joel is at the root of all evil for everything that ever happened in any way ever Joel was the first to big payoff theater it's a violent confrontation between a group of characters where we know everything about them it's fucking baffling that that didn't kill me why didn't you just shoot her yeah Ellie doesn't do fuck all in that hole oh so annoying oh shit you're right oh my god that's another thing that's I think it's consistent the game is consistently you know what else if she's not in the camera she's not gonna do anything that gun is not her revolver yes right that's not the revolver meaning it's not the gun that she would have grabbed that she threw away so you can't even use the excuse that it would have taken her time to get the revolver back could have been could have been Jesse's well it doesn't matter she would have had the gun on it like we're gonna meet her of it what the fuck was she doing with her time with the both of them I don't expect them to know like proper tactics but they're saying how you clear a room she's dropping down did Jesse even have a gun that's probably a good question I don't know I'm not sure but she has a gun from somewhere she just pulled it out of her pocket or something I guess maybe she ran after it while they were fighting well there's a bit of detail to go over in terms of when you play as her do you have equipment or do they not let you check I'd be curious to know if you have all of your equipment or if you just for some reason have one revolver I don't know well doesn't she go after you with the bow and arrow at one point during the fight in the final phase yeah it feels like she has all of her equipment at that point or at least a lot yeah wait so I mean she has a fucking machete yeah I hate her she doesn't defend Tommy Tommy sacrifices himself for her she doesn't do shit all if she's got the machete why didn't she use the machete instead of it's because when she hits Abby going through the door why did you not use your machete you have it why did you not use it yeah because she has the pistol and the revolver right so she's dropped the revolver she still has the pistol which would explain why she has it in her hand right there but also that means what the fuck took you so long oh my god if a character is off screen we can excuse how useless they are all of a sudden that goes back to Joel's death yeah that was gonna say it reflects to Tommy during Joel's death as well yeah and Tommy just watches Abby grab the shotgun and shoot Joel it's so dumb it's only after the blast and he falls over is he like Joel you're not reacting to the woman holding the shotgun moving toward your brother seems like something you might want to do these two here it's like they couldn't see Abby because the camera didn't have Abby in shot yeah it's the logic of whenever you're not on screen you're on pause yeah so they kind of just walk into the room and stand there for a second and one of them gets rightfully shot for it let's roll it back so as soon as there right from this moment Ellie can act let's see how long she takes it's a violent confrontation between a group of characters where we know everything about them but they that's the first action she takes he shoots she shoots but she completely fluffs yeah and she's looking to run when she's it's like Ellie you've got the perfect fucking chance to kill her also just wait on the other side of the door for them to go to it and then fucking blast them if you had control of her they'd both be dead you'd shoot Abby right through the fucking face and then you tackle Lev and beat the shit out of her with your machete it would be great but never mind they know nothing about each other each has been well characterised and has built enough empathy for this audience then you just burst right open through that door and just eat a fucking bullet through the face if by well characterised he means each have been assassinated by what we understand for them as they're core characteristics I would agree with him also they character assassinated them but not with this shooting oh yeah also that is that is one chunky drumstick right there look at that oh my god fucking hell I feel like you could actually use that as a club pretty successfully kind of what a punch is that we don't know who we're actually rooting for more than anything what we want Ellie yeah it's funny that they're trying to put ambiguity when Abby is just an asshole yeah like listen I'm on team Ellie it ain't much at this point but it's all we got also she says for Lev to stay back in case she tries to escape and then Lev just turns up Leia what's that about we need to have her be there because she resolves a moment of tension that's his and Yara's special power if Abby is in trouble they'll show up out of nowhere for both of the characters to stop fighting when I am Abby fighting Ellie I don't want to press the buttons that keep the fight going but the game forces me to how is that a plus yeah otherwise I'd be killed and I'd have to do it again and I just want to get this fucking mess over with otherwise a story that the game developers didn't want to happen would happen how is that a plus how is that a plus the people who play the game they want a completely different story than the one they're forced to do by the devs it starts to make you wonder hey maybe this should have been a fucking movie if you want to do that shit why give us a choice in the matter when I am Ellie fighting Abby later on I feel the same way he didn't want to kill Abby in the finals honestly I wanted to kill him more than ever to end the fucking suffering along with the fact that I want revenge but alright both characters in such detail that it puts the players emotions in turmoil I do also want to acknowledge that there are parts of the game that work against what I feel oh parts let's come on was it the part at the start and did it finish right at the end of the game I think that's the part he's talking about but let's give him the microphone come on just right you can come through on this I swear this is your moment story is trying to do because in order to accept any of this you do sort of have to accept the jarring shifts between the gameplay and the narrative the story is concerned with how violence tears us apart but the gameplay tells us to have fun with a bow and arrow that shoots dynamite you kill an absurd number of people with absolutely no remorse on your way to fighting Abby but then the story kicks in and suddenly this death is one too many thank you yeah correct high five he did it do you not think that this is a what we call colloquially a huge fucking issue this wasn't as big an issue in the previous game where everything except the final chapter had this larger justification of saving the world here the desires are more personal and selfish so the fact that ellie is just okay with killing hundreds of people can I just pause here this is the wrong section because these are all fucking slavers like even out of context I'm fine with killing them so that is the worst section video to show at this point I'm just saying there are better better times to show like the PSP the PSP lady even though again that was self-defense but it's still something that should affect her because she threatened to kill the person in the first place the fact that ellie is just okay with killing hundreds of people to avenge one person distances us from her more than it did previously when you look at the last of us our desires for their relationship are they work in perfect harmony with what the game is trying to do and in this game it's the opposite I don't want at least what half of the characters want and I'm constantly rooting for the wrong side and I take joy when Abby dies when I'm not supposed to that's the issue I mean the distance is it's okay that she's killing them because really it's Joel killing them yep we are supposed to disagree with what ellie wants as I've been talking about earlier not really no that's the biggest problem that would be the case if she was going in like if she was after as hard as people seem to believe she was but she backs out twice and then Tommy kind of just goats her in it's painful all of it is so very painful that's from her more than it did previously I mean the distance is supposed to be there to an extent we are supposed to disagree with what ellie wants as I've been talking about earlier we were on a team for a while then we started to wonder what the fuck her team even was mm-hmm gameplay takes this to absurd extremes this game might single-handedly be responsible for reviving the use of the phrase ludonarrative dissonance it first off never left never left in this game well this is the blossoming perfect example of it perfecting the fucking phrase isn't it yes it was almost scientifically engineered in a lab to be the perfect example of ludonarrative dissonance and I think it's made a lot of people a lot of people don't know what the words are but they know exactly what the concept is and I bet a lot of people felt it with this game oh I knew it ever since ff7 I'll find the original definition like in ff7 when your party mates come out of clouds body it's like why aren't they just following cloud it's like one of those things or when airs dies why didn't you just use phoenix down some shit like that it's not that uncommon a concept I agree with rags it's what I'm trying to say mm-hmm yeah this game might single-handedly be responsible for reviving the use of the phrase ludonarrative dissonance taking as a whole though I think it's possible to acknowledge that contradiction without throwing away what the narrative is doing successfully oh the themes are the most important guys but it fights the theme it literally battles the theme yeah it doesn't leave you with anything else if you have ludonarrative dissonance in a game that's trying to present a theme then what the fuck do you have I don't understand how can we argue with the it's a cohesive theme and he's like yeah but the idea of it really though and I'm like yeah I do well shit the idea of any shitty thing is good so what now that's what I mean that's what they start with before they make the fucking game yeah because the idea is just revenge revenge isn't good that's that's the idea but the concept and the implementation of it is what's fucked up and that's the most important fucking aspect of it that was what they were doing that was the whole point and also I guess we haven't even really even gotten into it but I don't agree that revenge isn't good yeah I don't even buy the theme this has all been under the assumption that we're fine with the thing I ain't even fine with that I'll go along with it for the game telling you message but no I don't agree that revenge is bad and you shouldn't do it revenge properly done is okay anything it's also like violence begets violence well I mean World War 2 but the game doesn't do that the game says that an act of violence would solve the problem yeah it's like it's one of those it's the kind of message you'd get from like a kids show on Saturday morning where you're trying to introduce these kinds of concepts to small developing brains that can't handle nuance and complexity and you're like yeah you should always be nice sharing is caring and all this stuff that's really generally good things to tell small budding young minds but actually it's very complicated remember these are the dumbasses that went on a revenge bush and with fucking badges of where they came from oh god for fuck's sake yeah and the photographs with their names on it and Ellie leaving the map is like you pile all this stuff up and I'm like oh my god these people are too stupid to care about wait this is alive what fuck we talk about the death of a thousand cuts in lots of media this one is absolutely qualifying it's like shitty slashes yeah of course I don't want to understate the cuts there's significant cuts but there's so many of them it's insane in particular abby's half of the game uses the basic techniques for cultivating empathy and the unique tools of video game storytelling to get the player I agree they are the basic ones and you really need to move on the fuck from them if you want to make it a more meaningful experience the game doesn't use the unique aspects of video games as a narrative medium well and we've been over that thoroughly it's you have to play the guitar maul or it's important that you every time they offered it after I did I was like no no no no no I'm good thank you now I love that she just bumps into a pristine fucking guitar in the middle of the ruined city like cool everything else is like molded and destroyed but this is this perfect guitar I was so ready for the guitars to be like bonfires can we also say that the song at the beginning is so on the fucking nose about the foreshadowing of the fucking game if I lose you I'll lose myself oh no what is the game going to be about especially considering the fucking cover up what to go on the same arc of change as the character and if you're able to reconsider your emotions while you play then I think the game has accomplished something if you're able to reconsider your emotions while playing well if you just pretend that you like it then maybe you'll like it yeah if you're able to not consider your emotions that's what it is thinking about why you feel what you feel I'm just like what a worthless thing to say if you just reconsider your emotions well then now that's emotions are most you want them to be natural I don't know that I've ever consumed a piece of media without being cognizant of my emotional state have any of you ever done that because he's saying we should praise the game a little for making ourselves reevaluate our emotional state and I'm just like I don't know that I've ever not done that I feel like my emotional state I can't separate it from like what I am you know at that moment especially it's part of the language I use and the way that I speak and what I think it's too integral to what I'm doing and if you're telling me to just re-examine that then I'm already quote-unquote not myself anymore it's I feel like I shouldn't have to do this you know you want emotions to when they arise to be natural to be the product of something that's reasonable something that doesn't feel artificial and contrived I think that's why a lot of people love the first last of us is because when they felt the emotion of their connection to the characters they didn't feel like they were being fooled into it they felt it was real and they felt it was earned they do it the hard way like I said he stonewalls her at first they don't get to have their I really missed tears tears was my favourite I wanted you to continue and he's like instead he's like no we're not talking about it moving on you have to break him down first you can't just have it and you know you don't have a dog run on the screen and go Joel I'm so happy to see you I am Rover let me give you a bone for me to throw and he's like that is very cute Rover I am Rover I love anyone until I've seen you you're everything in the world to me Abby and I am everything in the world to you I hope nothing bad happens to us then you're the dog to say like the dog should have said like I would hate it if I was stabbed by like a butterfly knife she have thing in my throat that would suck it would be great if the dog came went through and the pattern just went I love you that's another one that we we barely talk about we mentioned it once at some point but they have a dog carded or something what the fuck is the dog they have a dog on guard since you've been gone Abby I love you I am not an animal the dog starts playing a little guitar dude and then it just flips like Toy Story 4 style where it just goes what does it mean to feel alive the dog and everyone's like I have achieved sentience but my fellow canines have not why wow and it's like anyway back to Abby like okay but I was just gonna bring up the dog fucking roaring its ass off at Ellie when she enters the building and she's shouting and kills it and um they don't fucking notice it's like yeah that's another good point Mallory oh my god I mean that's what the dog's there for right so who cares they were just too far away they were discussing things really loudly so they were discussing how much of a bitch Mal is oh that was the end of the video fuck one of the most heartfelt scenes in The Last of Us part 2 is Joel and Ellie's visit to the museum of science and history yeah cause it's the only time in the game it fucking felt like The Last of Us that's why yeah that scene was good if you're as much a fan of dinosaurs and space exploration as Ellie is then you can do the yeah it was it was bad I mean it's what he does he takes a piece and pulls everything that could get in the way of a narrative out of it and then reviews it at least he didn't quite get away with it this time in his own head he was like I have to acknowledge that this is kind of dumb at the end if I throw in a little bit you know that'll be the last thing they remember so maybe they'll cut me some slack Jack he's like nope suck up and so it's like yeah I understand why you liked it just right but it must be annoying for you to have to ignore all of the things that get in the way of a lot I'm not trying to be contrained but I don't understand why he liked it because he said the reasons why he liked it then he kept having to put disclaimers by saying which is you know tricks and basic manipulation and basically he was saying I'm a stupid idiot and I fell for all the crap he went on to say it was effective so well other people are saying cover cause for naught now he is only manipulated by superficial acts of trickery people are saying cover cause for naught now it's like we could have done a fucking 24 hour it's not all the last of his videos but we would die oh my god somebody just said that Joel is Raid Shadow Legends oh no oh my god I am curious what he's uh I'm curious what he's going to say about the dinosaur scene though they'll probably agree with it the next best thing by checking out curiosity stream oh he's just chilling he's just chilling for money yeah I think that's okay at least it's in the end of the video I was just I was expecting something else from my bad expecting it to go somewhere else but I thought cause cause look at the rest of the video we got I didn't realize all of that would be ad space yeah okay there's a lot of patrons on the side that scroll through so um I guess should we say that we're done with the Mr. Raid then yes the video wasn't very good we often watch the ads but I feel like the video definitely has ended so there's not much point in carrying on but yeah that's it Donkey and Just Right um how many good videos no hmm there was one thing like if I was a teacher with my red pen and these were like essays on my desk the one thing I would write is give me more references yeah you say that Hitler was evil but you always say example question mark example question mark yeah do better well it's the apply yourself apply yourself hmm what a journey your argument lacked support and examples you need to back up your claims with evidence you tell me that the game is doing x y and z just show me show me where in the game it's all I want I might believe you if you're good enough at it I probably won't think you have enough evidence but you know you might the second video very much sounded like he'd listened to an interview with Kuckman who was explaining the thought process behind the game hmm of all the videos you want to put a lot of work in to change people's minds this probably should have been one of those videos probably should should have worked well worked on this one because just playing random often totally unrelated clips is just not convincing to me in terms of visuals and stuff is like oh you read a book one time it's great it's fucking stellar talk about the game Abby is terrified and she has to deal with that later which makes you empathize with her now comment from the video finally someone who gets it most of the haters who hate on the game haven't even played it through or have just heard about the major spoiler and decided to dislike it and suddenly and suddenly everyone is the world's best couch writer I've not even heard that expression before it's obviously in reference to like armchair psychologists but with writing the thing with writing is that you can get some of the best writers with absolutely no professional experience whatsoever they can come from anywhere while the psychologist needs a lot of fucking training the orville's been cancelled what really no it's gonna be the final season well who who has decided to cancel the orville after three season but we still have fucking Star Trek oh fuck that shit star shite yeah I actually checked out the Rotten Tomatoes on the orville that's interesting oh boy where have I seen this one before the audience love it the critics don't don't listen to either it's always interesting though that split if anything it's almost like if you could only watch the films that had 80% plus from either the critics or the audience from now on what would it be probably audience more inclined to listen to the audience yeah so anyway that leads us to the end of coverage for videos and I suppose now we're gonna be jumping into superchance but of course I want to give everyone a chance to exit off and possibly sleep or eat or whatever they wish to do yeah it's 9 30 am Philippine time nice and early so you're gonna stay here for a while I suppose hell yeah it was a fun I like the first two hours of the streamer we just shat on the last of us but I really didn't notice that we were ragging on the game for two hours like Jesus Christ really fuck wow I thought it was like half an hour or so maybe one hour it was lengthy it took a while before we got to the first video you might even say we created a long man yeah well I will it's 2 30 am so I will bid you farewell as well I hate to leave it just the two of you because I'm probably gonna run off as well I hate it for just being the one of me but I have to no I can stay one at a time we will get you your outros who wants to run away first let's go left or right so I think as can go first alright thank you thank you very much indeed for inviting me back on absolutely it is a pleasure to do this with you you don't say no tomorrow and it was a lot of fun taking the piss out of a terrible terrible terrible game and quite good fun taking the piss out of terrible videos about a terrible game as well so I had a very good night thank you very much indeed and the audience for a lot of fun as well which is great oh yeah nice and engaged lots of discussion tonight seven hours worth so far I think it is I must say it's an exceptionally quick seven hours it is weird as hell sometimes my body is currently broken I am going back to the gym and I am absolutely exhausted and might even curl up and cry did somebody beat your father figure to death with a golf club like why are you doing this yes they did they were I don't know what they were called Joel that's it they were called Joel oh my god yeah check out heal vs babyface makes lots of fucking good videos entertaining engaging of course as an intro they can check out your video that you made with Jay Longbone myself Rags the Thorious the Raius I always forget the Raius all about Batwoman start there if you want to because Rags will be there and then get lost in the world of heal vs babyface oh thank you sir thank you panel as well you've all been awesome too so an awesome night a very enjoyable night yeah thank you yeah I liked your captain Mark re Larson video the sudden drop in her views that was a good video yeah it's cause she's horrible and very very unlikable yeah did you see the the thing where she said if you like this video please leave a like if you disliked it keep your pity to yourself oh my god that's the that's what you're supposed to do yeah oh my god really you know you're only making us want to do it more now come on darlin yeah she's she's so obnoxious yeah and if you're in a desert island with Brie Larson you'd be more inclined to think how do I kill her as opposed to what method should I kill her and just bury her body somewhere and look her into the sea and there she's kind of like that kind of person really I'll just like chill out here on my own you know maybe make some sound castles was Brie with you oh yeah she she went for a wee and never came back aww she said she was gonna swen for the mainland and fingers crush you aww someone said look at Matthew Matosa's video people complaining about you there like why what did I do yeah someone made a comment in before edgebomb makes a video then you make a video defending Matt's video and then the comments start flaming you and it's a shit show we like Matthew Matosa's but we don't like Mahler somehow I defended him in my videos yeah that's what I said that's the original post it's like yeah for Mahler to defend Matthew Matosa's from fucking H-bomb again and everyone's like yeah Mahler's fucking stupid aww because of his stuff that the reasons things stuff is wasn't like any kind of objective metric or unit of measurement of any kind is evil or whatever measuring things is bad yes by destroyer rulers team of people by Ghost of Shashim it's got much better characters it's got much better story you actually get invested in the people you go through highs you go through lows and it's exceptionally well done well told it's got some diverse stories which are actually handled very well indeed it makes you think so it's just a fucking great game gameplay is absolutely fantastic and I'm balls deep in it I love it I can't play enough of it that's what I'm saying but I can't I can't play it because I'm doing the fucking video for the last of us too right I'll let the next person speak and thank you very much indeed guys and I'll catch you all soon see you later bye bye next up Theo you want to go sure I guess I'm Theo I'm a mod on Mauler's discord and that's about it I might make a video about 50 years from now at this rate yeah that's me don't subscribe fuck off dude chill out I'm telling you something way too hard yeah it's been it's been good fun coming back on I like talking about video games I prefer talking about I guess more interesting ones though well that's the thing when we talk about certain mechanics we can be like so hey this is how you could do it let's start talking about other games I have sneaked the conversation it does something else we can talk about how you can do there's ideas here but ideas aren't worth all that much yeah it's all about that execution man that's where it's at yeah it's thank you for coming on of course and one day when everyone subscribed to you you'll release a video who the fuck is this it should be around 3 hours long if it ever gets made yeah hopefully it happens someday and you'll have a good night enjoy the super chats oh yeah we will do our best goodbye bye bye and finally hi guys hi guys it's me the weekend warrior and I'm going to make a video just shitting on the last of us too that's it that's the tweet I hate this fucking game I think you're among many like-minded fellows yes I agree with that can I just say that I can't believe that so many people are trying to justify that this game is some sort of fucking masterpiece it's just so weird it is strange but I think this is one of those games that it's just kind of constructed in a way where some people know they're not allowed to not like it or you have to open your brain it's on a higher level playing field shut up only an intel acutal will understand the deep that are very very subtle in the last of us too no I got it yeah chat is right they got to turn on my brain oh don't worry guys I'm going to turn on my brain don't worry I'll do it yeah dude if the key to understanding the last of us too is to turn on your brain just like I don't oh gosh this whole time was us not having turned it on jeez that's definitely not what we're constantly criticized for is being way too critical all the time about everything no worries about that alright guys I think that I really have to take extra coffee looking forward to your video this was really fun though I liked hanging out as usual the eFAP is always a fun experience if we're not talking about the videos we're talking about oh it's like that it's like a just right justification Jesus Christ anyway have a good day guys catch you later I'll catch you later alright peace out what a nerd alright alright do your outro alright I know I don't think so I think I'm being manipulated you can find me into leaving when I don't want to you can find me at Quinton reviews I check out all kinds of media be it Garfield or Star Wars or Nostalgia Critic oh no wait who reviewed Nostalgia Critic recently I think it was Ralph the Movie Maker that was interesting I love people reviewing Nostalgia Critic's old stuff which is fair you know did you ever see any of their movies ranks the channel awesome movies no I didn't I thought that was half of each of their videos kind of they used to do yearly celebration ones and they were special huh I think most people probably know what I'm talking about you're in there give me a second lads I shall get things move a loo anyone hear Mastodon's new song it's great rat I'm afraid I don't listen to Mastodon I'm going to guess that Raghuz does not as well no I don't know who the Mastodon is I'm vaguely familiar with the name great I don't hardly recognize it yeah Theo so there's a Theo fan in the superchats that's wonderful what's your favorite song and why is it Land of Confusion because it makes me forget myself and everything that goes on it's like a mental reset button that I could whip out whenever I play The Last of Us 2 I can play Land of Confusion and I just don't even really know what the hell is going on and so I feel fresh fucking fresh smooth why am I not able to not show up the thing well I'm going to keep clicking to find and figure out the problem anytime I'm just going to keep reading these out it'll be fine Shad is making castles what the fuck dude he's so cool have you heard about that he's making his own castle really like stone and everything I haven't watched the video yet but that seems to be what the vibe is right now best of luck to him getting some land for it but then at that point once you build the castle he's surely going to want someone to attack it just to really get the experience you know maybe some people are willing to be heard in some way a little bit yeah I guess I'm curious what the end goals are and what the process is to keep it is this going to be like a new house he's getting he's going to live there because remember as I learned from Shad diversity it's not a castle unless people live in it so you know it's got to be a dwelling gotta be moving in there Shad yeah that's what I'm thinking very very good I found out how to get it to work there we go um how would you define a satire um what I assume about a satire is like you try and maintain the overall like experience of the thing but you're going to accentuate parts to try and make a point about where they're either falling apart or are ridiculous but what is the official well the first result of satire say let's have a look the use of humor, irony exaggeration or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues there you go far better usage of the definition than I probably give oh that's that's how I describe it myself I've always used that just like that and that order wonderful if I may say so myself uh yes it's a difficult thing to nail though you know like anyone who satirizes my channel and then does a 10 minute video the first question everyone's like maybe even if it's just black screen surely you want to get a like a four hour mark satirizing Hitler for example and you're like you have him petting dogs like no you might make him likeable imagine the pain caused by such things um I wasn't even a Last of Us fan when I played the second and I still loathed how it treated the characters from the first yeah I think that's the case for a lot of people they um some of them hadn't even experienced it some of them had but didn't care too much about it and yet uh much like TLJ shitting on a bunch of characters or certainly Luke it sort of reignites the sense of like oh shit that's what I actually felt and I didn't even really notice it damn that's kind of sad when you think about it they took something you didn't even know you had of course as the old adage goes don't be sad that it's gone be happy that you had it in the first place or whatever right that's what we're supposed to say when horrible pieces of media come out um I'm not I don't feel happy that I got this stuff yeah no I it's not that effective isn't it I feel the opposite of happy I get the sads um I watched Captain America Civil War again Black Panther has a pretty good arc about revenge compared to the last of us two yes Black Panther is cooler in Civil War than he is in Black Panther he's like straight up nifty like I really like him in Civil War he's watching people go nuts over trying to exact revenge and he decides that it's not worth pursuing um I don't even know what the fuck his arc was in the second film that he's in check out the upper ash alarm review for the game it's probably among the most accurate takes on it fair enough in your estimation what specific aspects of a work should be objectively assessed and what aspects are primarily purely a matter of subjectivity so I mean you can almost tell from the statement you'll make about the thing um but we've been doing it today actually to a to a degree right like you know that the the route in which the game was going to take be it will Joel be in the whole thing will Joel be in one hour will Joel be in half an hour which is objectively superior and inferior and it's like well I don't think we can really do that we can only talk about what we can assume it'll have as a as an effect on the most of the audience and the like I said I've only ever described it as possibly unwise to kill him early and if someone was like unwise how and I'd be like you might just follow the audience go be careful um but maybe if you really build up a justification for it could work out um and of course all of that is essentially just subjective I'm just arguing about averages and how things kind of maybe do sort of work but then you have stuff like um we can't outrun the zombies we have to go to the outposts like you're on horses and you cannot run zombies what do you mean like you've definitively shown that shit and it's like well that's just your opinion it's like no no we have references so you know anything that is just definitively provable beyond a shadow of a doubt sort of shit and then anything that's entirely feelings based would be the extremes but then there's some stuff probably floating around in the middle being stuff like how long does it take for a human to die when stabbed through the forearm for example I'd be like I don't know I'd have to go search that and then there's different results based on exactly how much flashes hit the state of the person you know all these things and so it's like you probably could be objective assuming you had every single piece of information but I don't think you ever will so you have to kind of like eyeball it and see if it's reasonable so guys stab through the forearm and dies instantly we'd all be like wait what I don't think that makes sense but then of course if you stab through the forearm and survive 100 days without having done anything to it we would all again be really confused and uh yes you do your best to try to find all the references you can in relation to the criticism you're trying to deliver and of course like I said with Joel I think we gotta made it work with him being in very little of the game but I don't think they really tried unfortunately a move that can't be counter attacked I feel like I should have been putting more points into other things move that ignores enemy armor a move that delays an enemies next attack hmm that'd be it well anyway let's kill some more stuff why couldn't they just take their stupid story and themes and insert it into a whole other game just sad we had to have lost franchise after franchise well that's probably what a lot of people would argue happens in all kinds of media it starts with an idea and then they run with it and that's how the last of us one would have happened so it can't be that bad unfortunately hello oh hello also do any of you massive use overclocking is the juice with the squeeze I don't myself but I hear many many people do I think my old ones were just a little bit but I never had any issues with it myself some people swear by it some people do it pretty regularly but I hear that yeah it's a generally helpful thing to do depends on what card you have and what you can get away with yeah I um all of my friends that have overclocked it just reduces the lifespan of the PC typically but they usually come out saying it was worth it so it's I'm not entirely sure how I feel I don't do it but I'm not sure that I would say you shouldn't do it just look into everything about it I pretty much always hear good things about people who do it but it's not like it's going to give you generally not going to be a huge difference but it depends on the cards you have a lot of cards are very overclocking friendly so to keep in mind not going to lie the last of us two made my depression worse lol well you know any media can obviously have that effect both ways it's unfortunate though because that game is not one of good feels I would argue yeah it's like you didn't have to make a game that makes people feel like shit when they're done with it I mean you didn't have to like take soma for example it'd be like oh is that a good feels game I'd be like I suppose it depends on your understanding of everything in the game not to say like you need a big brain to be happy I'm saying like honestly it's like how you interpret everything and what makes you think of everything it's complicated it probably won't leave you feeling great but you learn a lot and I think walking away from that being with the understanding that you've learned things is really it's a really big part of it and why it feels good to finish it and why I feel glad that I did however with the last of us two you didn't learn shit from that well I don't think I would actually pause it you can't because any lesson that someone comes up with there's gonna be problems in the game and like fuck it up and then at that point that's just a lesson they gave like they gained themselves they didn't necessarily get it from the game because the game bungles the shit out of all of these like points it's trying to make and I don't even agree with the message anyway so well the game doesn't agree with the message there's several points in which if you had committed to more violence violence would have been ended yeah if anyone thinks that violence only begets more violence if there's anyone who's out there who's naive enough to actually believe that then I don't know I think we I don't think that well you're on the level to be playing this kind of stuff we gotta go back to the basics like I said I don't think the game agrees with that it's such a weird situation where it critical says I learned how to make a big hit sandwich critical says oh my goodness oh wait maybe that could be tonald's new video on his cooking show because how to make a big hit sandwich oh my god that shit oh that is hilarious oh I don't even I hope you would do that I would watch the shit out of how to make a big hit sandwich fit for a fat girl you gotta throw some insults into the meat he's like stop screaming at the meat to give it power really beat that meat oh yes um critical says the bullet erased jesse from existence since he only named one more time after in my opinion more amusing than thinking the writers forgot about him oh like canonically the bullets erase people from existence he was an afterthought of a character there's no there's nothing else to it unfortunately he's only there to save the this is why he's being called a sperm donor I am pretty sure because that's really all he's there for unfortunately yeah I even forgot that they forgot yeah I mean there's a lot going on like I said it was only this stream I think that I said it for the first time out of all the streams um she's very concerned about killing abby to avenge joel and she's not even considered that jesse was killed by abby not even on your mind like that guy pretty amazing do do do um so I hear Theo has an interesting opinion on halo MCC I'm afraid he's gone so I don't know what it is if Theo if you're in chat your hot take assuming you have one on halo MCC is is desired sigh I miss Jimmy yeah Jimmy was kind of what held the games together you know he's gone oh wow two critical hits well done barathol now don't you love that abby gets a happy ending and ali gets PTSD for the rest of her life well it's thus this is a part of how everything doesn't quite make sense like are they suggesting that her PTSD would have been solved if she had killed abby or was it solved by her trying to and failing to you know like is that what are they trying to say I am very curious all he is he's going to be careful with stuff like this because everyone is of course talking about the lessons of the game and so now we have to start taking a lot of what happens in it to mean like that's what they're trying to say is rather than you know could his hot take is that halo was never particularly good I don't know if that's going to get me killed or not yeah it's probably going to get you killed wait it's going to what now Theo said that halo's never been particularly good oh yeah that's not a correct opinion the fires of hell a comic view don't you oh wait the last of us two didn't need to exist they made it for money I could believe they made it to sort of spread their ideas of it he'll advise that was I don't necessarily have to believe it was made for money but I mean I can see why people would think that it does seem like they packaged everything in that game to really deliver something they believe in whatever that was hi rags hi did you hear the Mongols occupied Tsushima in a mostly peaceful protest also watch Vinland Saga oh um Vinland Saga maybe Anuma May Grand immunity to stun let's just do that um and watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes it's long so you should like it that's not how it works um Joel's moral ambiguity was also shown when he killed Jimmy I cry every time down Jimmy goes there was a struggle to really understand the character on you notice could we really back him up after he'd done something that horrible I don't know complicated big ups one day invite me on for weeb stuff I feel like if we said who should we invite for weeb stuff um from chat I feel like we honestly would get like 90% of chat being like I could I could do it yeah me everybody watches weeb stuff what do we do rags we don't this is our fate doomed to it forever and ever and if only we like the last of course you start EFAP when I have to go to my little cousin's birthday party also hi rags you never said whether or not you'd bang Abby Shapiro uh let me take a look also uh surely your cousin's birthday party is ended by now I would imagine you'll be fine we're still here Abby Kiro Abby Shapiro uh yeah absolutely she's got yeah big old tits geez very large breasts yeah I'd fuck the shit out of her before I go mind you I am not calling halo bad good night chat alright there you go oh my god not bad just gay also also have any of you seen Waterloo I've heard good things heard Waterloo I am I is it the war movie that's really long that's what I've heard no it's the song by Abba I've heard that song yes but um not the movie though but I've heard it's good would you fuck Amy Schumer or Neil Druckmann uh let me see probably Amy Schumer need an attack that always hits damn I need to I need to get ore of the valour otherwise we're just we're doomed can I check how far away I am from it I guess not alright I can keep hitting it with crippling smash that doesn't seem fair I think this game might be on balance tracks you think so just maybe a little bit oh here give me just I gotta be back alright Waterloo there we go um if Batman was invested in killing Superman hard call why would Superman saying save my mom keep Batman from thinking another kryptonite Kryptonian to kill because it would humanize the alien the alien has a mother too and Batman is all about parents so I think it would fuck with him a little bit and make him stutter but save Martha is weird and I can kind of see him flinching on it but then he says why would you say that right instead of who's Martha like what do you mean he like flips out and it almost implies that he's like half convinced he's talking about his mom and it's just like dude very weird scene and uh yeah I think there are better ways to do ooh we got war call now check out lads war call it makes them do things mountain rage oh careful I don't want to kill the enemy I want to make friends with the enemy oh and loud water fury how about that I feel like that's the third loud water fury we've used in this whole game which is very very weird just letting you know mm-hmm just joined your patreon mohler hope it helps thank you very much I appreciate um all the support from all you lads it's definitely allowing everything to keep on trucking strong of course the next project being the last of us two um which is both being covered by myself and uh e fapping right now it's such cohesive it's like a theme wonderful that's how you know the podcasts are good okay he's to the else where am I if it makes you better it's confirmed that the wlf ended up getting slaughtered in the end battle on the island so at least those idiots are dead really I guess once Isaac died they didn't know what to do it's kind of amazing though is that something you can find out in the game or is that something else all right apparently the wlf lost to the scars right really if it makes you any better I guess it was supposed to say if it makes you feel any better it's confirmed that the wlf ended up getting slaughtered really yeah against the oh okay I don't really care they're both I mean no course the problem is that the scars just are horrible yeah I would prefer the wlf win scars seem super culty and weird and stuff that wlf seem way better organized and everything he hmm Pewdiepie hates the last of us two to he got good taste yeah I've seen some of his uh his reaction stuff is funny as if you're still here can you tell these dumboes to watch Hardcore Henry who am I kidding this is being right on super chat catch up 15 isn't it no it's on the very stream the very same probably you had faith company might do do um it's about time you massives cover a donkey video people seem to ignore the annoying issues they have and blindly follow his words salutations rags hello pretty decent job weren't you mean to him and I think I highlighted exactly what like my issues usually are with his work and the response to it um yeah I don't think his video was all that great at conveying what uh was working about the game without having to ignore significant parts to it uh yeah has anyone ever considered that the zebra that the dad saved probably died of blood loss hours later yeah it got torn up um yeah it got turned up so whether it was infection or probably when blood loss is probably just infection so I would guess infection phase because the the wounds look like they could have been sealed eventually uh maybe he was okay maybe not I don't know I imagine that just because he touched it and made contact with it he's purified it so germs are unable to you know get in there and it will leave forever yeah he's too pure he wouldn't let that happen wait is Neil the embodiment of men writing women the subreddit uh I wonder if they have an issue with his writing so I've always felt that's a very sexist fucking subreddit in in creation surely the idea is that they show and share like women or female characters that are badly written but they always happen to be written by a guy in the case of the ones that are being bad that's the goal of it and it just seems weird to me it's like fucking men look at them writing women it's like what about all the really well written women were written by men no subreddit for that I don't know what if I told you that it doesn't matter what the gender of the writer is they can write both genders well or shittily or shittily we know we know that's the case how amazing um and subtle too a zebra an African savannah animal just like giraffes Joel and Ellie bonded over in the first game get it get it I mean it was it was pretty obvious it's just the last of us one had it as a cool moment where they passed it by this game is trying to use it as a sort of like look this man is so fucking good you there's a point where they're like sir we need you to blow on he's like hey come over here we gotta save this animal it's like oh man look you'll ignore things that are going on in hopes of saying I'm not going to lose another daughter this zebra has to be saved hmm see now you also realize many of those random faceless grunts you killed were women too and they also could have been pregnant yep so it's the big problem with the game and even just right highlighted it so good on him for doing that we should all be very very thankful yeah he paid lip service to the concept of criticism the concept of fucking integrity it's like I might have to mention all of this I guess just finished rewatching Lord of the Rings recently I can't carry it for you but I can carry you that line chokes me up every time screw cinematic venom raw get the roof yeah that movie is fucking so yeah it's like a huge climax for their fucking relationship like motherfucker I'm gonna we're gonna win you understand we're doing this oh oh you're still alive what a good little troll I read a worrying IGN article yesterday called HBO the last of a series will enhance the original where they implied wokeness and said the TV series won't be ruined because druckman is working on it oh well I mean it was already ruined anyway dude we'll check that out we will check that series I'm very curious but that's the thing I was telling earlier druckman will still get jobs companies will still have them write their big stuff they won't give a shit that he ruined the last of us that he they just won't care at all I don't give a shit mmm Ellie no don't kill her she's pregnant zelda from the cdi games good I mean zelda of course especially from the cdi games would feel that way there's no there's just no way about it have you watched any abby death compilations yet I think I've seen one and it was it was it was couched in something else but yes the answer is yes two points why did fat gerald tell Ellie where abby was thus losing his bargaining chip for survival well the whole idea is that if he told her that then she wouldn't kill him because he complied with her does she threaten to hurt him I can't remember I don't want to see Nova I don't think she like explicitly lies oh well I'm suggesting that she's like tell me or I'll fucking shoot you even more sort of shit I can't remember if that's what it is though I think oh like she definitely knows exactly what like what what he's doing because you know he because he uses that as like oh no don't kill me I'll give you this knowledge you're talking about this one girl that sort of thing so she Ellie took advantage of the fact that he was giving her that even though she didn't explicitly say I'll save you but you know he was a I'm not going to say fat girl was a bad person but he was with some unsaver he probably just caught up in it and you know his peer pressure and he wasn't really a bad guy and the other point was what kind of snacks survived 25 years in a vending machine without spoiling I don't I don't I think a lot of chocolate 20s do they I have to google it because obviously sell by dates aren't definitively like when you can like up until you can eat them but there is like a bit of a limit on that too yeah like food isn't going to last forever I mean honey lasts forever as far as I know but yeah I don't know a lot of other stuff I'm not sure what are the longest lasting foods I mean canned foods and stuff will last for years but this is decades after the apocrypits so who knows in the apocalypse I don't think the acquisition of food will be difficult because by the time all the perishable stuff runs out you've already supplied your own as long as you have the knowledge so I think organizational groups I think it'll just be medical supplies stuff that is perishable in that sense that'd be the big deal people influence stuff of that nature I got me a new helmet and it ends with have fun high rags hello and we give it a best give it a best love that you're covering this love that you're covering this playing crash of a game have you had or are you willing to have mandalore gaming on I can't wait for episode 100 sure I don't know anything about him though yeah I'm not he was mentioned earlier I think or she I think pretty sure it's a he actually I just can't yeah it is a he picture I'm pretty sure I would have seen something from them at some point but yeah maybe in the future and yeah efap 100 is is lurching closer and closer terrifying stuff hello Mola hello rags is hey and guests they all say hello from the vast reaches of the internet credit to DJ M voices remember when Joel was looking for anyone to take Ali off his hands and by the end she's like a daughter to him that was gay just have all the development off screen well this is a lot of them yeah there you go this is why people don't care about the the dinner and Ali relationship because all of it that led to their kiss was off screen and Bailey described and then the relationship going from Jacksonville to Seattle was also off screen which is pretty insane if you ask me I go wow I can drain inspiration with both my sword and my okay you all retreat enhances attack momentum of your group for a short time well I'm about to fight the Balrog see and now I'm very concerned I don't have all the stuff I probably need to beat it so spooky to say the least because I don't even know if I can but I'll just go save the little fight out just gonna be great Moly you liar you said you were going to use this stream to convince everyone why Iron Man 3 is Kino and Civil War is trash not gush over the last of us to I feel as though that was filled with lies I give it several thumbs down all of the thumbs all the way down two thumbs all that I have rags once again you've made derogatory comments toward racial minorities here's some money oh thank you very much I mean it's a lesser man might say that you're establishing a pattern of bad behavior but where's the bad behavior honestly a man of low spirit may make such criticisms this one says Venus oh I like this I'm just sitting here waiting for the donkey fans attempt to dismiss the criticisms as critiquing a comedy video that's all a joke while completely ignoring the actual takes donkey made in the video it's fine honestly it's fine if they were never going to listen in the first place it's fine yeah I'll get this shit also rags look at this shit what the fuck I don't remember this happening in the movie where's the fellowship I don't see him there's a fucking battle going on oh yeah that's right it doesn't look amazing or anything but pretty cool to have in the game as like a background thing yeah that is kind of cool that is really nifty like I was there and I'm like can I just you get I was there shirts and they have this image on it can I just throw stones at the bow rock from here like doi you're mean can I give stone shield to Gandalf I could but does stone really effect fire I don't think so I think so no wood does I learned that from the last of us too oh yeah that's right they make this fucking ovens out of wood I was I was busy dealing with so many other tisms of that point that when someone brought up a child seriously I can't deal with this case to the elves on myself I guess I need idrills you gotta turn quickly I feel like the bow rocks gonna kill us all instantly this is gonna be interesting very interesting did you guys know that there are actually Christian crosses cross says in the synagogue you visit interesting if I don't know if that's an accident or not sneaky Jews man trying to spread the Christian tisms in there what should I do here can't even trust the Jews to be Jewish still upset though that they never explained why they needed to remove Ellie's whole brain and not just scrape a sample of the fungus off so this is another problem they don't even try the many different options they have that are non-lethal first and of course if they risk if they killed her at any point during any of these tests and they would be like well we can still do the thing that we plan to do that killed her anyway but no they just immediately run to well fuck it so it's a little interesting for sure hey endure shadow fucking come at me bro let's do endure flame as well oh oh shadows and flames don't do as much to us now so it's pretty useful when we're dealing with a shadowy flamey thing do you agree with that this is probably one of the harder fights to actually I don't know what I'd agree with in this game I want to think grant immunity to stun for the battle can the balrog stun people not anymore let's increase our likelihood of dodging the balrog that's the way um I don't understand why people keep saying Lev is trans when the reason they decided to appear more masculine was so they could become a soldier to protect her mother and sister if anything she's a poor man's moulon oh yeah that's the thing like it's this weird implication that I thought that's what it was going for that she was trans yeah I thought so but um I think that's fair actually there's yeah that is fair but you know with everything else on top of this and the way that it's said you're like that's lazy to that conclusion but um but yeah that's one way to yeah for the whole goal with it was just to or him was to defend the family no it is trans because there he called him yeah and they changed the name well and there's the whole dead naming aspect so yeah I'm pretty sure it is trans yeah because moulon was always uh you know that sort of thing a woman green spirit for me does that give it to my whole party let's try it oh yeah I don't need it fuck it bolt of the valour sure swatang bolt of the valour don't fuck with grandow it's a thousand damage you jealous? I thought so what did I do alright how's everyone's health I'm gonna heal grandow love you um granda finally a video about rags and his effects on the last of us too also hi rags dude ferno takes a thousand health of everybody and 500 magic of everybody which actually reduces most of my characters to zero why because it's supposed to be just you and gandalf what the fuck why is that that's just the move you should always use jesus uh hmm well well yeah I think the fight is supposed to be you know the party fights against the balrog but it's too strong and only gandalf can survive and I'm like at this point just have it be those two and they get separated in a cutscene or they want to fight but they can't because a column of stone falls or a boulder or something any gift of gladreal stat alright dream spirit for many let's see if this does it for my whole team I will drain you with the power of a wizard oh it does there you go that's a counter as counters go anyway um rip fat gerald and not manny of course manny can rot in hell it's going to be great I'll give myself oh wait I gave myself this already um I've been having a really bad few days thank you for your streams honestly if not for you guys I'll be losing my shit right now thanks massives no problem oh absolutely happy to help it's good to hear that sort of thing yeah especially if you're feeling help me out here weird or down or whatever and you just a bunch of chisms having their having their back and forth it can sometimes make the day go by a little faster that sort of thing like I said I was surprised to see we'd actually managed to go into the 7 hour mark at the end of those two videos but it happens good ol efap do I want to use stone shield I guess I do put it on idreal protect that lady we will need her oh barithel's about to die I probably should have put it on him barithel quickly use a defensiveness man it's a move increase attack damage of all party members there you go can't wait for the last of us three where ellie is doing devil may cry combos to zombies I feel like that might be an improvement at least you know we can admire her for that I'm just curious if abby will be the main character give us seven years guys give us seven years lev excuse me while I shave my head subsequently getting my entire family killed even after we spent two plus hours of gameplay trying to save yara yeah lev is young is probably the excuse still have for all the stupid decisions because lev gets the sister in trouble quite a bit well I mean she dies so yeah but again lev is young lev doesn't quite understand here comes another bolt of the valet I'm annoyed that gandalf only has like three moves he should have 17 and they should all be awesome I should have fireworks he spent all of us thousands of years of wizard training into those three moves some called his strat madness he called it min maxing uh oh pillar of wrath this is the one I remember he's gonna kill all of my fucking characters instantly oh he killed one of them but that takes magic off me as well why okay now I'm starting to get curious as to like is it actually possible to win this without the fucking revive mechanics because jesus christ um I guess we'll revive barathol Seth did nothing wrong I mean certainly to scale I don't really care about someone saying a mean thing to somebody I just don't care I just don't give a shit with all the other problems going on in this world I just don't care where the fuck's my other abilities oh gif the glad reel on had hold I guess oh this is gonna be a nightmare fight but we'll do it I'm sure a bid to put zero three L in the next Star Wars movie yeah we'll see they might do it but I hope alright my party's back up to almost full but I'm pretty sure the Balrog's gonna use the exact same move and we're all gonna get fucked here comes won't you do it bali won't you do it oh this uh takes a while for him to get his turn going oh flaming sword on Gandalf that's probably a waste of a turn sweet yay that was the thing with the AI we knew how powerful their moves were dude that did a thousand damage to Gandalf alone like that shit compared to all of his other moves just saying stone shield on Barathol in yeah I should have just cast some stone shields if when he had mountain shield if I focused my actual proper moves instead of having fun I'm naughty of me how does Lev even know what transgenderism is how did he become trans girl to boy by the way and why does he want to become trans during the apocalypse I think there are bigger worries Lev just confuses me um well they said was it literally the shaving of the head that made Lev become an outcast yeah I guess because that was a very outward thing to do impossible to hide but of course Lev doesn't want to become an elder concubine so I assume the plan is to leave then you just sort of hunted at that point it's kind of confusing the sequence of events for that one but of course if it was as simple as referring to Lev as male or female and the choice was going to get them all killed I think Lev could have re-put up with the decision but well shaving the head was probably a big mistake he was trans but not like gay trans so you know it seems kind of rush looking back on it right I think it's all it's like oh what, what is all this yeah I would have come up with a much better reason than that I feel like they could have done way better uh can't wait to see J031 B183N Debate Trump oh Joel Biden Ivan I'm not sure but yes he's a very good debate bot blessed be the fallen saint fat Geralt who walked the path of the dawn may he save zebras in a better game wait was it Geralt who's saving zeros too I mean I can believe it a good person saves zebras okay that's how it works anybody who thinks differently name one bad person who saved zebras yeah I didn't think so yeah it's done Joel Biden lol yeah he's a candidate blessed abby smash that's reasonable did anyone else think the fireflies abby contacted in Santa Barbara were actually the slavers you know since they attacked her right after abby was stupid enough to say the exact address she was at true I thought that's um I asked someone what it was I asked if it was a coincidence and they said they might have heard a radio transmission and I was like oh okay I didn't know if that's what they were going for or not oh I thought their slavers was they were doing that to like a trap like yeah I suppose yeah I mean I could believe it I don't know the either they overheard it or they saw her going into the thing and just waited for her to come back out or they they heard the thing the place had been ransacked right I think I don't know but yeah I don't know this seems to be that's the case don't you hurt me mr. Balrog I'm gonna fuck you up do you know um I'm pretty sure ore of the valour actually restores them on full health and ap as well oh my god like elf medicine brings you back at half like damn dude something that isn't as good as wow something a drill does yeah I know uh remember when Jason Shryer commented on the game and Tyre Trio Baker Troy Baker probably replied with a Theodore Roosevelt even though it wasn't about him yeah um I think Jim Stirling covered that as well I can't remember who was the Theodore Roosevelt quote that was just used something that it wasn't fucking about at all it was really awkward um and uh preferably we shouldn't be seeing it again ever because it was just like oh why would you why did you do that oh so I need uh we need better returns on the oh here we go say goodbye to everybody's ap again we need wizard drain Gandalf where you at bro oh Barathos stone shields down too it's all coming down for Millhouse uh all the wolves everywhere instantly know Abby as a traitor how did Isaac post that on the WLF Facebook a tweet it's not like they use radios um I mean they don't they don't know that she's a traitor they know that she's she's gone a wall a couple of times right that's the intention of course when they find her they put a pistol on it but they don't like kill us right away mm-hmm I don't know it seemed relatively reasonable to me I'm gonna run out of things to be able to use yeah I have mountain shield all of my essentially cheats I would have oh wizard drain it's too late for that now just keep going Gandalf you can do it keep zapping him I'll show you guys as soon as we complete this I'll get the evil mode and the battle rock fight is fucking super easy um Abby as a traitor just picking up CTR and I'm watching my favorite long man thanks for the massive content high rags hello a little problem uh Theo as the resident philosopher do you have any books you would recommend to people wanting to learn about higher thinking and concepts well I'll grab that question and hopefully we can grab an answer from Mr. Theo at some point in the future also I would recommend personally I would say go for one fish two fish red fish blue fish okay that's my that's my suggestion there's a lot of knowledge right maybe I should use a knife at times shit stunning yeah wounding elven raging weakening a little strength of a foe he's gonna be immune isn't it watching it really run at the battle rock to attack him looks funny hmm just like what are you gonna do I'll go hit him with my sword it's gonna work it's weird also why don't they use radios they have military equipment they can't find some walkie-talkies those would be useful to the to warn the WLF there are dozens of scars a couple blocks from the HQ um that's what I think I mentioned that when I was playing the game I was like you need to tell you HQ you just bumped into a shit ton of them looks like they're starting off like a ambush or a war or something you gotta be careful do they ever explain why the salt lake crew went to washington state that's quite a trip and a half on foot or were they not actually there uh I don't know I'm not entirely sure what the references are for that I have forgotten or I don't quite uh know what it's referring to at all um when Ellie lost her fingers she could just learn to fret God a good hand so it'll help learning to use her other hand but nah true um and I think that there's a better message in that as well the fact that she would have forgiven uh Abby gone back to realize she can't play the guitar as she always has learned from Joel and instead would have to learn another way or get a new kind of guitar which can help symbolize moving on yeah moving on but instead she just ditches the guitar it's like what I don't know exactly what they're going for with that ending and I suppose that's the part where you can just interpret away are you saying she shouldn't have speared her or what she'd never pursued her she'd never would have lost her fingers it's like yes but Abby would be dead and I don't know if you're advocating for that game doesn't sound like that's what you're advocating for um Druckmann comes across as the kind of guy who thinks he has Hideo Kojima reputation when he's really David Cage with somehow less charm he's definitely big brain he gave himself a big brain in the game and I think that's the biggest implication of big brain you could possibly have it's not unreasonable that Lev wants to be a man and identifies the role of a man as protector and the post world needs that. Lev's plight should have been I'll never be strong enough as a man I mean this I don't even I've never even thought to talk about how to fix all the shit with Lev because it's so quick and just like it feels distant from the conflicts in the game and I when I think I first met Lev I was just like how long until they're gone because um I didn't realize that's what they were aiming for to just make like a whole campaign based around like the scars the seraphites and Lev getting caught in between with Abby and stuff it's all very what are your thoughts on imitation game I liked it but I've heard a lot of criticisms for it none that I've sort of watched like videos watched I just heard people say that it's pretty shit though so I'd have to like check those out and maybe re-watch it but um I had fun with it also Fellowship Grace is really giving shit all AP back isn't it I don't even say it upsets me to load the strength let's do continuous damage to foe it's probably gonna do like five damage but still this thing is the kind of info that I'd like to have but my uh disposal so I can understand what I'm doing before I spend my turn on it you know no it's fine like no I just sort of guess and hope you remember oh no Barathol's gonna die don't do it oh oh stone shield I guess sweet uh L Y Mola rags Theo and weekly heart oh hi as damn well hello to you hello to you too do war call let's see what happens imagine a will war two game where there's a flashback to Hitler saving a zebra boom he's a great guy now that's what we would call a cheap tactic but it's effective I don't know why you would say that it's just like okay movesly I'm still trying to catch up on you the last of us to play through also high rags Theo weekend war hello hello wow I can get a war call mountain rage going that seems unfair but I'm not gonna complain hi rags hi I'm probably moving to Johnsboro borough Arkansas on Wednesday is there is there anything you can tell me about the city or the state that I need to know before I go I'm fleeing California and it's SJW oh it's a it's a great laid back state the town itself I don't know too much about it's nicknamed Jones boring it is a college sort of town the ASU was up there but people are generally laid back and friendly over here things aren't very expensive other than that I don't know I guess you'd have to ask for more specific stuff I suppose I don't really know if to talk them ahead I mean you you know yeah I think so definitely absolutely they could be a nice nice little change nice change I really like here I do like living here in Arkansas I really do enjoy it get people therapy well I think people's under constant therapy that's why you can see so many emotions in people he's constantly exploring all of them many of them pure distress and anguish but he smiles every once in a while you know people are doing and looking for those smiles StoneShield Idreal high rags and usually hello hey just rewatched EFAP 50 in prep for 100 1.2 billion memes have their origin there oh yes it was quite a ride EFAP 50 okay YouTube if you fail to notify me of one or more live streams I will never pet my female pit bull ever again I will give you ghosting a bitch a whole new meaning oh my god oh my goodness gracious well there you go I wouldn't want you to not pet the dog yeah I mean it's only true but I do understand that YouTube is pretty shit on the notifications missed how do you miss the Balrog god damn it he's standing still too it's like come on now oh an extract is 150 oh I don't understand the only reason I'm lasting as long as I am is that he hasn't randomized into using two of his four moves more often which is pretty silly if you ask me yeah well have you ever Balrogged have you ever been a Balrogged yes so who are you to criticize him B Roring Inferno there it goes ooh alright my turn now shut up Balrog my turn my turn my turn wait everybody's lost all AP not even Gandalf has it now yeah likely story have I got give AP to some of my there you go oh 150 that was not bad uh let's get stone shield on dude I got that he is pretty shit you know Doctor Tamal congrats you're pregnant you'll be sent to the front line tomorrow that's the reward see it's pretty awesome you'll fight extra fierce to protect the baby in you it encourages you to be more protective it's out wizard's train I guess yeah give me all that juice look at that everyone's full now and it'll get taken away the second he does any move oh I should probably use perfect mode I guess hmm I shall consider this this whole match is me recovering from all the damage he does every time it's his turn that's all it is fuck it let's use perfect mode oh rags I'm gonna have a tree throw a rock at the Balrog you ready oh shit a tree throw a rock here we go come on tree I can't wait till it shows up on my end oh my god you throw it boy you are you wow gondorians oh I will gladly go and do what the gondorian guy says wait it said he was immune but it stopped his turn which was the goal of earthbarrow yeah he's stunned it said he was immune but he's clearly stunned rags what's going on here well he's immune to maybe he's immune to the damage but not the stun no they did 7000 damage yeah but maybe he's immune to the theme but not the screen see now that makes more sense because what was being said before didn't make any sense it's an end to you bigots no tree tree tree tree tree tree tree 100% tree can't be anything else damaging shield it creates a shield that damages melee attackers wha I fucking stole shields gotta protect my peoples efap movies racing stripes like snoop dog was in that I think snoop dog is in so many movies it's so weird you just like pops up all over the place I think it's just goes direct to like yeah I'll have snoop dog in the movie I never played the last of us one but it seems to me that most people like it because it does two or three things very very well and I see nothing wrong with that the second one seems to do nothing very well it just kind of happens I mean yeah I fully agree with that statement the last of us one does do a couple of things really well the second one it does acting and graphics well do we all agree with that yeah okay good it does have those graphics happen in the game man I'm just narrowly surviving against this Balrog I'm liking it oh Barathol's gonna tank a flaming sword this is gonna be great he's got a stone shield that's why he's a guard of the Citadel because he could that that's like part of their initiation lift the shield buddy I think that wipes out the whole stone shield it's like yeah can you redo that one please okay and the abbey skywalker yeah bruh Ellie forgave abbey but not Seth and Joel yeah that's what she learned what she thought about Joel was you gotta forgive otherwise you'll have violence forever don't you see don't you see it's sad that you guys don't see you refuse to see nope we're just blinded by our hatred for women damn it uh did you know you can donate one or more of your vital organs to the aperture science esteem fund for long men it's true also how do you everyone yeah long men suffer you know you gotta gotta help out again um what dragons from pop culture would you fuck mary kill hmm um I guess if I if I was presented with a list to operate from I could probably come up with better answers because off the top of my head just like thinking of dragons um because some of them are just too big to fuck unless I was doing the fucking but maybe I want to daddy dragon and take care of me you know um like like draco from uh dragonheart you know he'd make good husband uh husband material you make good daddy husband material um I don't know anything about spyro's personality so I don't know I guess he's fuckable uh I'd kill smog of course he's evil and he's super greedy and he kills dwarves but maybe if he's married to you you'll help you out you know I don't know I feel like his greed would be incompatible with a proper marriage setup you know uh yeah I don't know about other dragons I'd have to get suggestions from the chat uh dragon yeah I'm trying to get dragons from chat um shrek dragon oh I fucked the shit out of shrek drag absolutely she thick shit man big lips wiping my team out with that one gay move so you can fix him rags you can fix him um some of these I don't know dragons from kubayashi I don't know what that is cinder oh is that the other um is that the other one let me google that cinder dragon oh yeah he's fine I guess I don't know anything about her um he's like a dragon tails alright I remember dragon tails um okay dragon tails dragons images okay so we've got um I'm assuming all of these dragons are I've reached the age of consent uh there's the blue one uh yeah I'd fuck him he's he's a daddy absolutely there's a smallish pink one I don't know she looks like a Karen there's one with two heads and I'm not down with that I feel like that's a slew that is a racist uh no sexist and racist slew you can't say well that's that's okay because that's what I meant it as oh good for a moment I wouldn't want to throw away that you know frivolously I want that to want it to keep its bite you know uh let me see yeah I the two headed thing isn't isn't quite it for me so toothless from how to train your dragon um I don't know I think he's all right he's too quiet I need I need one that talks you know if we were going to be in a relationship because I need to know what he's thinking you know what he's thinking you know whatever you know I'm accepting of all is that a few dragons yeah that's it for the the dragon question yeah all right uh fellowship of the golf club Joel had some old contacts and I you know if Joel was uh if Joel was an optometrist then he'd be able to use all of his old contacts I get it and I'm almost certain chat got it too we did it um the typical uniform of a disnoid drone consists of a black coat red trousers yellow boots white gloves and a face mask along with a black helmet and two circular ear like protrusion interesting we need to know more about the disnoid drones you know there is an important element of uh all of the things so I'm gonna fuck him up with elven rage here we go whoa fucking flipping that's just Lord of the Rings is like I'm just gonna fuck things up with elven rage just how it goes yeah that's just just you know just Lord of the Rings again all I'm having a hard hot do is cast stone shield like every turn if I had learned mountain shield do you understand how much more efficient I would be a lot more okay a lot more that's what I'm getting at it would be the efficiency of a lot but more aren't mountains made of stone um yeah but they're bigger hmm see because it's like you lift a mountain in front of the team yeah a mountain implies a lot of stone so maybe it's one of the quantity you know it's the quantity aspect of it dude I'm immune to flaming sword what do you mean what did you do how is that a thing like I have endure flame right on him but how could that how could it make me immune like that seems a bit much well does the does the sword thingy does it um does it stun so maybe the stun protection extends to the damage this is the retarded part of this game right let me let me let me try to figure it out let me throw something right so you have a move that hits one of your four enemies and then you have a move that hits all four of them which one do you think should do more damage probably though one that hits four should do less damage spread out to multiple targets and the one that does one target should do more damage because it's only focused on a single you know yeah they do the opposite way in this game interesting it makes the group attacks terrifying interesting you're saying he has high fire resistance yeah but immune oh yeah if you attacked a ball rock with fire I don't know what to tell you man no the ball rock can be immune to fire I'm fine with that but um what about you I had hodds I don't they need to get had hodd regularly fighting fire enemies that man yeah who knows what he can't do uh this is the fat Geralt support group we needed weekend and Theo are the best oh hi heal wow we didn't get highs at all it was just them what's that about rags huh I don't know I every dog gets a bone thrown his way everyone so while I suppose it's okay so we were supposed to sympathize with a cult that wanted to kill an eight-year-old because she didn't want to be married to an elder I don't think we were supposed to sympathize with that I think we were supposed to consider them kind of nuts yeah and who'd want who'd want to be married to her exactly not this guy I hope someone proves the multi-universe true only because that means there's an alt-right the last of us two we're abbey we're Adolf abbey goose steps Joel to death I mean yeah who knows all kinds of last of us twos could have been made not just the poopy one deal loads of damage Barathor you can do it oh wow the Balrog didn't even seem to notice he was there but that's still a decent chunk of damage you know it's not nothing I believe in you Stone Shield on Gandalf I think I finally cast Stone Shield on all of them now so just wait for the Balrog to fuck everyone up do it coward you'd think water would work really well on the Balrog right yeah like if you use some of the massive bucket of water and just in this game it's a horde of horses I believe is that what's a what's a what's a large amount of horses called it wouldn't be a herd right what a group of horses as called a a team a harass a rag for cults we got stampede a murder I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to horses and then four different herds looks like a murder of horses it's not actually a murder of horses right that's a really weird one a murder of something you know it just throws everyone off a murder of crows a bunch of horses that's what it is definitely I'm starting to realize that all my moves from my other people kind of suck it's mainly Gandalf's bolt of the valour that matters bolt of the valour oh valour halla did I kill the Balrog the baleroog is it over is it gonna play a cutscene easy to over for the baleroog oh here's a cutscene you cannot pass and it's like look at all these characters in the background that wait in the movie it's not congress with the fucking movie it's terrible oh god it's playing the movie yeah I always felt like when I was younger watching this I'm like ah this is clearly not like the movie it's just like a little fun thing to go along with them it's not like an alt hit I like they play the clip of the movie showing they weren't actually there it's just like wait what is this what do you want me to believe why didn't Joel use the space stone to escape no idea it's never explained that zebra was never saved it still got bob wire lodged all through its back that's not gonna heal and dark daddy would have known maybe he was gonna heal it up a little later you don't know you do not know I really want to buy a bigot sandwich at a restaurant now hell yeah I want to taste a bigot sandwich don't you yummy tastes like steak I will put the game back on screen as soon as it stops showing the movie right now it's just showing Gandalf fucking annihilating the baleroog which of course it would show that because it's like fucking badass part of the movie it only makes sense the last one is too it's like an onion it stinks and makes people cry yeah yeah I like it can we get some F's in the chat for those absolute legends Jimmy and fat Geralt yeah yeah poor one out for fat Geralt absolutely Gustav Clint excellent Mola the last of T. Louis the second memes I think I follow T. Louis yeah that's what they'd rather called it I love it that's good I like it T. Louis even better because you call it T. Louis the second T. Louis the second that was an accident by the way this one makes it even better he didn't need to call it like he thought that's what they bet oh that's funny should have just cut the pretense and had Abbey fist Joel in his rear until he died Joel got done dirty so I don't think it's drastically different yeah that's fair enough you know may as well just go all the way you know hey dude I like that you have 49,440 XP for Had-Hodd Barathorn Idrial and then Elagost gets like a cut in half share of that and it's like dude you didn't do anything why are you taking credit stop it nobody cares about you Elagost where's about you Elagost who Elagost um more like where Elagost in the fight oh fucking more movie clips damn it oh I guess are we doing am on ahead next I can't remember how this game goes actually here yes in the chat a bit of bear a Unicron nice revenge is bad also Abbey gets her revenge twice and she is saved because of revenge revenge yes yeah it's an odd message with an very odd execution I'm updating the lore bigot sandwiches are made of freshly rescued zebra they also could have fixed Abbey's gains in the end sequence like Popeye she eats it just bulking up instantly the actors for Abbey slash Fat Geralt are married in real life gotta imagine the conversations at home considering the death threats for the Abbey's actor yeah but it's also yeah but the life threats for him the life threats I will fucking resurrect you do you understand me I will never let you die oh we're going to East Emmett gullies I don't even know what that is oh that's the worst side of Emmett yeah I was gonna say if you guys are gonna go to East Emmett avoid the East End man it's it's rough I got some bad shit going on over there the east end of the east that doesn't sound right to me I'm calling out to them also that's just embedded into the ground at this point that's a terrible placement bad game design maybe this will be the game that finally kills Cosmonaut's channel I seriously doubt that nothing will kill his channel he's always been of the perspective that he just sort of talks there's people who are fans of him do you think they're just gonna wisen up well this is the thing I would be like I don't know what there to be interested in since it's more so every video is just him being like I kinda like this or I kinda don't like this and of course if you try and keep track of it it ends up getting very confusing but there is no take I think he could have on his youtube channel that would tank his youtube channel I don't I mean not like within reason of course not like something fucking nuts can't wait to hear how great he thinks the last of us who is yeah that will be next defat that's what we're we're up for I think oh really? oh I had no idea but you know it goes to show yeah I got two last of us streams in a row it's gonna be terrifying huh oh yeah he made that video he's like you guys are just like dumb or something that's why I described the next one is probably gonna be pretty incendiary because why would you call it that I think even the top comment says you should rename it I think he's pinned the comment saying you should rename it so also what I have two moves that do the exact same thing there's not much choice in this I'm just gonna keep pressing A and hope they don't kill me before I kill them bam bam bam bam bam I killed their healer that means I win right yep more crimes updating the law fat girl maybe just pretend the last of us two is what you wanted see if you like it clearly some of us can do it way better than others it's when you said that I actually took that to mean a couple of things at first it's like you're referring to reviewing because of course all you have to say in your video is pretend you like it and maybe you will and apparently that's passes for a fucking point anyone can do it but uh no you bet anyone can pretend to like it even if they realize that a lot of the game is incongruent with itself like damn just don't think about it and watch the graphics listen to the things and look their actors in the video games hooray don't think don't be critical am I able to recommend a guest via discord dm's who too super chats don't give enough characters from an explanation of why without breaking the bank oh also playlists need updating again mutually I shall get on it and um I mean you don't really have to worry too much about recommending guests beyond well you don't have to do it at all first of all but if you wanted to be like oh check out this channel maybe we can and you know it will throw an invite out like it's not guests aren't like determined by ifa viewers or something there's a lot of things that come into it and oftentimes it's tough because it's not just about finding out whether or not they want to come on it's also getting them on an episode that they can you know thoroughly contribute to and that they would feel enticed to the last thing rags and I want to do is bring on someone who knows fuck all about the subject and sits there like well this was fun um so yeah we've had a couple uh quiet boys and we want to avoid that you're on and you don't talk the fuck are you here it ruins it for them and ruins it for people who wanted to see them interact and stuff so I wouldn't want to do that so sometimes you might think like wait have they ignored the the idea of bringing blah blah blah and it's like it could be that it's just taking a long time um one of who's one of the longest ones remember it was like someone relative I want to say someone within the last like ten ifas we brought on who hadn't come on since that had been invited like a billion years ago I'm sure it was um hack fraud media I had invited him like around about the time eFab had started and I just like fucking fumbled getting the right time and place for him to jump on it was a it was a mess my bad but um you know sometimes it happens and we've got a lot of people on the way so don't worry too much about like recommendations and stuff um and it's cool because not only do we get new people on but then we start to mix it up like having different people on at the same time as other different people because it's so cool yeah all right go do I have a female bodybuilder friend looks nothing like Abby like I said there's a couple of posts like that on the subreddit that go over how she's not possible for a lot of different reasons it's become a contentious topic uh with a lot of people online and on twitter and stuff and I think that we should just kind of move away from it when we're trying to talk about the the writing in The Last of Us 2 because there's a lot of things that are just so fundamentally fucking broken and I think that it's a distraction to focus on that because everyone tries to turn the conversation into you hate women which frustrates the hell out of me because it's like goddammit guys can we just not talk about the fact that it's ridiculous we're just like no gotta be you hate women and then you're like you didn't realize that's what you got drawn into like oh I didn't sign up for that discussion I was actually and not to mention by the way you play as Ali in The Last of Us 1 there's a whole section on playing as a girl so kinda awkward to try and go that route I'd imagine um but yeah talking about it you know like if you had like an Arnold Schwarzenegger type um I feel like we'd all be commenting on it still if you had that in the game we'd be like damn how the fuck does he keep that up in the post apocalypse I think it would benefit hugely from exploring more of Hygiene with that specifically I found out a lot about her as well as the you know the fact that she pursued it but yeah I was just saying like you don't want to get to um conversations about the flawed writing in the game and then you realize 10 threads down or some shit that all you're talking about is whether or not she could maintain that amount of muscle with that amount of time that amount of machinery and that amount of protein so I feel like you're in the weeds not that it's not a valid point just that nobody's listening at that point I don't think but for the record I think it's dumb I do it fat reed Todd oh reed Todd gets married evolves into gay fat reed Todd I'm not sure who you're referring to it's better not be fat garrel that man's a legend yeah donkey don't listen to critics they're not the end all be all also donkey look the critics are right they prove my point you're just wrong again I'm not entirely certain of what the fuck his point was there you don't need the scores from the critics at all to make the point that you shouldn't judge a game before having played it you know as a full complete project but even that can be a flawed statement depending on what you're talking about yeah I don't know what his point is I don't know if the critics what the fuck does that have to do with anything yeah I don't care how many critics are wrong how many of those critic high schools are the ones who played the game on journalism mode and there's a reason people call that shit journalist mode you know I think it's interesting that that's what it's called I watched someone play monster hunter wield and thought it was pretty bad but when I started playing it for myself it was so much better all right I quite liked it I thought it was awesome from what I played I haven't gotten back into it though well can you please have drinker read this the next time he is on you look like a sweaty octopus trying to unhook a bra I'll keep that in a note do octopuses sweat I thought most octopuses normally look wet anyway because they live in the water and stuff um whenever there's something like that you know like you look like a balrog that's on fire you'd be like it already kind of is like I guess they mean like more so than what you normally see is that the double fire also I'm about to play as a balrog I think and I'll show you this retarded shit okay the last of us two is the spaghetti bolognese of steak houses well that was a question uh no it's not about steak houses it's not about getting something that was good that wasn't what was on the tin if you will because the point there is that um you ordered something you got something else it's like it's it's not so say for example you went to the cinema looking to watch star wars and you got spider-man and it's like is that enough reason to complain it's like well yes but whether or not spider-man was good is another question and so the idea is like is the last of us too good in its own right it's just not what the fans of last of us were asking for I'd be like no I think it fails in both not really what the fans wanted also it's really bad at trying to do what it wanted guys the guy just right said he really liked it and not even he could agree that it's like you know thematically consistent what you think would be the killer for him which makes me wonder it you know we say all the time that there's no standard at all that these people are operating on so they don't even like there's no there's just no consistent through line with these people critics be like hmm if this game succeeds it'll be a win for fascists how can we tank it it's the same exact crap they tried with Joker you talking about Ghost of Tsushima I have heard that that is the comparison people are making just like jeez really what's their problem with Ghost of Tsushima I heard casually that it's cultural appropriation is a part of it yeah I'm not you know it was made by western studio I don't even want to make any claims because I don't know I only heard stuff from like yeah like it very well could be that I just don't know if that's what it was speed you up Donkey also bashed Octopath Traveler after only playing 25% of it and playing the game poorly on purpose he's a hypocrite by his own standards we've actually brought that up on EFAT before he uh he shows a portion of gameplay where it's taking forever he's using like a basic attack against an enemy and the enemy can barely hurt him and he's ran out of I guess mana to do anything else and um I think someone established in a counter video like the he had to create that scenario himself like it's actually tough to do it yeah or something like that and I remember just being like damn dude because this is the thing about Donkey if you want to find out whether or not a game is strong or weak you can't rely on Donkey and I think he would even he might even agree with that himself he might be like yeah because my videos are supposed to be fun and I'll be like the problem is uh I don't know that a lot of people know that a lot of people are just like wait so this is what the game is and so it can sometimes create complications also I guess I was supposed to heal yeah I healed the right one okay um and of course like I said I was annoyed with his ukulele video I thought that he misrepresented the game pretty hardcore and there's the element of like fuck the the engine unity and he's like that's the game that you make fucking Donald Trump simulator on it's like stupid and it also got a Hollow Knight on it which is like one of his favorites so it's just frustrating stuff sometimes but the Octopath thing yeah he got in some trouble for that one so close to e-fap 100 keep up the good work oh yes almost there frightening in its own way can you imagine Ryze we'll be up to triple digits 100 can't believe we've done this that many times not counting the batwomans and all that stuff which kind of feel like little mini e-faps oh yeah and it's funny because let's say it's easy I don't know what the average time for an e-fapping is but you just like quick math of like I don't know like let's just call it 600 hours fucking hell crazy um of course the counter on e-fap.me is probably a better representation of such things let's have a look how to refer to it to the professionals the real fans 33 days worth I guess 33 times 24 that'll get you your hours been a been a fapping for a month it's it's long amount of faps yet there's a lot of fappage the fappening oh yeah 800 hours of e-fap see you can get through that in like a day just put it on double speed you'll be fine you're like oh I can't complete all that it'll only take you it'll only take you 16 days 15 days yeah uh donkey read Todd voice haha wee wee donggy gong I think that's raw I think he doesn't like donkey you like donkey rags I mean I don't know enough about him I don't think of all I've never thought his videos are funny or clever or anything like that there's gotta be some people like about him I'm just I guess I'm just not as target audience I just don't like the humor or something y'all better be fucking with us what is this in chat one minute oh you fucking kidding me what you gonna say what let's see no way I how no but today no no oh no how is this possible he chunks along for 85 fucking years and he just he just happens to die now no no something mate right here something's on there's some shenanigans going on here like seriously I feel like I'm being trolled by the universe this can't be real this TMZ are they reliable I don't know I think so for some I feel like something like this would be hard to fake and get away with I'm just like wow wow this actually upset me that's kind of insane wow I made a Wolver brimley is a live joke this stream and sure fucking enough wow what do you like what can you even say we created a meme like a month ago all about how he can't be killed that's annoying I actually like thought there was a possible chance because he saw like a beat on Twitter that we could actually have him on eFap in some way shape or form this is like a dream that is lame man wonder if I well my Twitter is going to be filled with stuff about this I'm upset yeah I do I am upset yeah the last thing he said on Twitter was two days ago the last tweet he put out was him acknowledging his favorite suggested names of being a wrestler and they include and a quaker the brimstone killford brimley and the diabetes this also again I just can't get over the cosmic fucking coincidence it's kind of nuts I guess we'll carry on that sucks I guess somehow if we can I mean 85 very least he got to do a shit ton but it's still unfortunate he's insane he got diabetes in 1979 or at least that's what I just read it could be inaccurate but he makes it seem like it's not a big deal to get diabetes honestly yeah I mean he champed it and he was totally on board with the whole raising awareness stuff for it so it's not like we can fucking mean people to death that's never been the media probably going to have to acknowledge this they'll be upset about it brimstone pile driver yeah we could have cast will for brimley as fat gerald in the movie adaptation of The Last of Us 2 but never mind we get it universe you don't like fun yeah you don't like memes jeez we didn't hope the actor for the dawn is safe I think there's too much Last of Us in Uncharted 4 due to drachman and straley's involvement very technically impressive but does away with the tone of the first three and that was kind of a bummer yeah I only have a completed Uncharted one I don't think I ever got through um like the rest of them just because I was just never that into the Uncharted series have you uh played them no never have I hear people say mostly good things about them but I've never played them expectations too high is such a bad argument these companies count on building high experiences is why they post multiple trailers six months to a year from release yeah like I said I don't consider that to be the issue a lot of people argue like so if your game was about you know killing a group people in a building it's like oh so the next one better be about a fucking warehouse and the next one's gotta be about an enormous country and then about space remember remember call duty did that I remember space I heard the I heard the campaign for uh call of duty what was it infinite or call of duty yeah infinite warfare yeah I heard it was good I heard the campaign was good is that the one where you go to space no I just didn't I couldn't remember the name of it oh I mean I just because I don't know I don't know that the space one is bad I just thought it was funny that they were in space yeah I don't think it's nonsensical but yeah I'm like of course we're going further you know that thing no one wanted by the way hit the announcement of him dying while we're streaming an EFAP episode oh shit yeah like come on world you don't need to be so poorly written pretty contrived that you're making this happen the way it's happening like I see right through you um a little off topic here but have any of you seen have any of you guys seen the platform yes I actually mentioned it on stream I haven't that's the one with the food that comes down and stuff yeah oh yeah that's the one you were talking about yeah I like it and concept execution was those couple things I'm not a huge fan of but overall I probably recommend it have some fun with a movie that is unconventional official it's uh it'll grab you within the opening of it you'll be like holy fuck what a strange movie I like it as seems to be on every stream going on at all times how is he still alive I'll never know bless you sir yeah he uh he streams a fuck ton it's kind of amazing because um I kind of did a bit of that this past week and to be honest with you I am looking forward to I was gonna say a week uh next defap will be Thursday next week so a little uh a little bit earlier but right I love this um you know they show the turn the turns on the top right you have uh all these troll faces at the right of the middle it's just hard hard like hello the problem is that it's had hard so you have to double take and make sure that it's not just another troll make sure it's not a troll you're like who this third troll come from oh I'm sorry had hard he's like wow now you guys should watch the spoiler cast interview with Neil Druckmann constant Nor's spoiler cast I will make a note who knows perhaps some of it will uh enter into this this the eventual script it really depends on what's said what's discussed legitimate question after hearing the yelling of yelling of we get it Ellie's gay does that actually negate negatively affect anything I don't like it when it's forced in but does that mean they can't ever show any of it it's annoying all the time constantly over and over so for me it's whenever we're wasting time establishing she's gay and how awesome it is that they're very openly gay and being gay when we could be doing character stuff things that are useful I don't give a fuck if you what whatever thing you like to suck on all right it's just it's that's all on you that's just great you enjoy it but um I'd like to know more about how you you're feeling right now about all the events of the game and uh yeah a lot of it is just like these tools big gay the the big loudmouth dykes gosh Seth how could you you get sandwiches man um but yeah that's all I've ever thought that it means when you say like yeah we get it they're gay because you're just wasting time which that game does a fucking lot of man a lot of plodding around a lot of just useless segments I want to see that boxed copy of uh use of all five game of the year edition it's not the last of us two rags it's how they market it it's not the last of us two I mean why not yeah I mean ultimately I mean ultimately I think Gears of War Gears 5 does some good stuff I do I would highly recommend if you are interested give it a look be careful of copyrighted newsy we were only playing the clip uh I played on stream so the stream didn't go down for it so I assumed that we'd be fine oh oh I had a sneeze uh Malcolm Amber Sarah Jamie oh that must have been the wind yeah it's so in depth it's so wonderful to hear your characters NPC's names be said as if that's such a it's just like what the fuck why are we praising it for that I don't understand I feel like we should have higher bars in this game when you you walk outside the door makes a sound that's much more like a door than often door sounds are it's very door like door okay hey guys you see this shit okay so I'm the bell rock I got whip of fire roaring inferno pillar of wrath flaming sword and it's like so the only move what's the move that does the most damage pillar of wrath what's the move that hits all enemies roaring inferno and pillar of wrath what takes the most magic roaring inferno and pillar of wrath huh I guess we'll use pillar of wrath curious how long it's gonna take me to win I feel like it'll be two of these moves and then it's just Gandalf do it marathon's dead oh nice seems unfair I'm gonna be honest with you oh Gandalf firing lasers at me jeez throw the brick at the prick now that's a neat trick gameplay isn't slick Abby a buff chick getting that oh and dick make me want to stab my eyes with a nice pick gonna watch the rest of the last of us HBO flick it's a tv show not a flick so you fucked it all up yeah we'll watch it we'll do it we'll have a look see and then we'll tell you guys all about it it's gonna be great dude we go like two months until Mandalorian season 2 comes out I feel like that's gonna be really good time because everything should have cooled down by then with all this last of us stuff you know 90 fat 100 will be done we can focus on things like the Mandalorian wow he's still 400 AP from me what a bastard also everyone's dead by the way except Gandalf I'm gonna use my sword on him now if killing an NPC doesn't matter why does it matter that they have a name yeah I agree I don't know what else to say about that isn't it so in depth that they call out their names just like what do you feel like whatever depth you're pulling out of that is you not the game it's the game making the human part of you try and draw a connection here in Shadow of the Hedgehog whenever you killed one of the agents they would shout they got Bob me see that sounds like they might be trying to make a joke in Shadow of the Hedgehog yeah and it's just like yeah they did it for real in this game it's like and it was weird how much they did it well yeah cause that's what we were talking about it became funny and it's like oh you don't want to you don't want to make it funny oh no in the first fear game the shotguns were devastating well this is kind of what we were getting at I don't understand this the shotguns really hit hard it's like do they ever not find me a game where you hit someone with a shotgun and it doesn't do anything it would be a weird one sure I can find something even um you know cause we were talking about this before but you know BioShock the enemies don't really react to your weapons that much they do with a good hit with a shotgun cause they'll usually kill you and of course they'll fly across the room or something of course there will be games that exist that fuck up the shotgun but that's kind of what I'm getting at is those are the ones of interest like wow they fucked up the shotgun the game needed to be more handcrafted and small rather than making all these systems the game is too big and should have scaled back the mechanics completely agreed the game is high in scale and they couldn't handle it for sure yeah I remember that shit's OP this blade is binding it's beating my feet horrible take me longer to beat the third age than it did to take me the last of us two what do you reckon hmm but 10 hours on this game apparently already i'm gonna go with longer for third age we shall see what takes longer completing the last of us two or traveling across fucking middle earth i guess we'll find out which one will feel longer hmm hi as mohler bowing oh hello there how do you still are you still up as thought i was the only daywalker that that man lots of stamina shotguns in game should sound like god slamming his car door well i mean don't hurt your players yeah that's that's all but yes you uh it's surprising how much um how much mute gun sounds get i suppose this was distracting and among other things about how they scream so loud in the uh in the game like oh that sound out of every other fucking sound is really loud why is that hmm they really want you to hear this and then you have people in the little video essays being like they make it so that people scream and that should tell you a lot about yourself like uh huh uh huh oh a vicious blade wrought in the foundries of the dark lord damn blade of morgul i'm on board with that oh alagost has new equipment how exciting all right we made it past the balrog without aura of the valor all it cost me was just using my heels and refill items a lot oh i think what i've discovered is the having aura of the valor means you cannot lose while not having it means it's unlikely you'll lose hmm so yeah and again we're on the hard difficulty balanced you know they call this difficulty hard i don't think they know what that word means uh the game has open world elements but it's not an open world game in the slightest i agree i don't think you could call the the part of the game that they like yeah like hey we did this one section you could wander around in so the game is open world i'm like yeah you're gonna have to linear but bigger and it's always like that is what open world is i'd be like not to that scale no like you add another fucking set of tiles to tetris you're like now it's open world you're like no i'm so bad i don't know about that moley your videos are awesome can you check your discord inbox for trock just send a meme regarding the last was two dialogue oh uh previate that was offensive and uh yeah i'll have a look see we um i might have shown it already i don't know uh metal gear solid three did consequential actions better 16 years ago it's funny how many people i think a lot again we're all referencing things that did everything better and it should reveal to you pretty fucking quickly that having an idea on its own isn't going to get you very far because what we've been doing for years and years and years is trying to do better ways of expressing all these different ideas or different version like you could argue that the whatever point is made thematically in lord the rings of which you could pull lots of different things like well let's do it but in a star wars world why not well you will will try and explore the message slightly differently and do all these different but yeah they're like but we did it you know isn't that enough like no but the idea is there appreciate that the idea is there nah you're gonna have to work a lot in that participation trophy come on oven rage on this man down you go uh good day muppets greetings from down under champs it's 4 a.m. here time to start drinking it's the law oh well drink it 4 a.m. down all right fine the theme would have been more meaningful if the player could choose to forgive abby and make other choices like that i absolutely agree i think if the game is focusing around what humans decide to do when perpetuating or generating violence and how to stop it sounds like you got prime material to start letting the player choose what they think is right and what they can learn from that it's why why must they do the thing with the thing that's that's my that's my big insight for today why must they do the thing with the thing i don't think anyone can disagree with that they flit them with the tism yeah that's kind of what i'm getting that yeah i think i think you get what i mean the last of us too is is a lot of flitism tism funny if on the beach at the end with a next to abby and lev tied to big pillars is a third pillar with a zebra tied to it now i'm thinking a half buried statue of liberty you blow it up damn you i found two dooms wait i too found dooms diplomacy to be its best aspect listen okay you can play doom in all kinds of ways that's gonna be one of them if you don't like it that's on you every time an injured npc started begging for their life i immediately killed them before they could get one sentence out could i care that much i would have done that but i was i was i was happily gonna be like let's do it game come on let's do it you said you can do it i want to see it or i can you lie into me like i said and pretty sure it simply was choosing choosing mercy destroyed abby and ellie's lives yep well this is something the game doesn't address it's like if if abby had simply killed tommy and ellie none of this would happen and this is something that you have to account for in your story about how the correct moral decision is this thing because we're all just sitting here like but there's less pain with the other thing yeah but this thing means that i get to like live and the people that i like get to live so i don't know i feel like they're bullshitting me game explain explain to me game why this thing is bad and it's like i'd rather not like oh oh just take our word for it don't actually explore it and its consequences i'll be boring wait what is the enemy here oh there we go the theme of the game is violence bad the only way to progress is with violence if you cared about the theme of the game you wouldn't play it awesome you know that might actually be the foundational criticism of your experience in the game which of course is brought up by a lot of people i just i just think that it's important to echo that that is the fundamental and this is why their idea is an interesting idea that can lead to games that are built around the idea but instead they were like let's throw this into a game that already has all these mechanics it's like but these mechanics involve killing hundreds and hundreds of people it's like yeah you don't think that that doesn't fit it's like shut up okay dr uckman do you feel bad yet me i don't know you didn't give me a choice or anything it's like yeah if anything you're just confused always confused Jesus Christ you want to miss more i hate it real now forcing the player to do something and then taking them on a guilt trip is super cheap hi spec ops everyone always references spec ops um yes they do it's funny again bringing up the whole like things that did your thing but better and then you'll be like yeah but you have to appreciate them all for trying like that's not go on leech inspiration with no vaccine in sight ellie's best course of action would have been to have children to eventually make humanity immune through her genes uh that is something they avoid addressing and again i feel if we were making this narrative i would want that to be uh an option presented to her and then we'd have to account for how she why she would have refused it hopefully in a more meaningful way than no um i don't know how you would test that though without being unethical right like ellie have as many children as you can to spread the immunity and it's like do you know that that would spread the immunity though it's like well i guess there's only one way to try it and it's like ooh that's gonna be it's gonna suck or if she fell in love with someone and had a kid and you know that was approached you know she was approached with that and like well you said you'd sacrifice yourself but you know yeah this is what i mean it needs to be addressed and that's a really tough moral quandary that i think again in the world of the post apocalypse trying to get a cure going or people who are immune we should uh look into it what does everyone think what does the game think i want to say it was the last of us to play through but i remember moeller jumping and getting tracked right into a landmine or off a broken highway and dying yep that was definitely me i wanted to jump on something that looked very easy to attain in terms of like a piece of land or the game was like no you want to die and i was like oh fucking hate that that was where i had a big like rant about um just how the game is on tracks i don't feel like i'm free which frustrates the hell out of me in games and it's always about the scope because take the last no the third age for example you'd be like you can't even move around in these fights and you have to use one of these set moves and i'd be like but yeah but that's that's the game um it was never pretending to be anything more than that it's a tin based rpg that's that's exactly what what is on the tin the last of us two you saw from the videos people are arguing there are open world elements it's like what do you do in game you try to pretend to be something completely different what we all know kind of pathetic and uh yeah it's annoying and so every time they offer this sense of freedom and choice you just sit there as a cynical little player go in really though is that what you're doing do you want to try it go ahead let's see what you can do and then it fucking cries and sits down because it had no idea what it was doing it just wanted to pretend to be like the cool kids like the other games that do try and do that for you which is interesting because they had their reputations go down in history then i'd reference fallout uh earlier a game the the original one i mean that that's always references one of the peak games in terms of just choices and the game changing according to everything the player wants to try and do themselves uh deus axe is often referenced um there are for every element in terms of mechanics or storytelling there there are going to be examples of it being done stronger which is which would probably explain a lot of vitriol that ever came to the last of us one but that has been removed pretty much entirely now because of this one because it can get much worse is the uh the conclusion i swear to god the last of us three will be even worse again i'm sure of it if they make it which maybe don't you know i highly encourage them not to it's like you murdered it this is where a bit of a star wars can just keep going because just move to a different part of the universe fuck it there's someone said can you do that with the last of us i'd be like the last of us was built on those two characters not not the world the world was fine the cool thing about the world was it was a cool new kind of zombie right oh it's like flower zombies fungal zombies neat mushroom zombies and and they were they made creepy sounds and it was like uh but it's just like yeah if you want to make something now you might want to try something else and of course the suggestion of decanonizing it sure um have we even got many examples of that except dark fate dark fate's like the only thing that i know of in mainstream big shit that actually decanonize shitty shit is there any other do you know of any of the decanonizations in in media i'm trying to think like genesis because it reset the timeline right genesis reset the timeline in narrative though it was like it acknowledged the terminator one two three and four happened but now it's gonna change the course of history itself so that's kind of different dark fate pretends they never happened like that to me is a more thorough decanonization like even in the marketing they said this film is a sequel to terminator two it's ignoring the rest of the films it's like oh okay oh ghostbusters after afterlife the thing is that ghostbusters 2016 is a different wasn't part of one and two yeah so it's not necessarily in the ghostbusters canon anyway that was something i guess i was i was mistaken on until we watched the extended vision stars did it and so did the witty the poo universe damn halloween ignored it sequels true that's another example yeah we need more of that i would say and i think if it's become well actually what's the negative of that do you think if it becomes normalized to start decanonizing shit it's just everything gets decanonized because no one likes anyone's work oh i just go it back it's all decanonized even the first one they're all just no canon they never happen it eventually becomes choose your own adventure but with films and canon i think you can pick which one's a canon uh attack on titan does a fantastic job of portraying the cycle of bloodshed themes certainly better than this overrated trash i already agree with you this this what do you think this scores in terms of representing the troubles of vengeance and violence i'd be like um i don't know a zero there's nothing i can get out of it that's coherent just right tweeted the last of us is good i was blocked by him for applying in your subjective opinion right what a snowflake he probably knows that you like my stuff hates you i don't know um i hate how in the last of us two people live in a city 20 years after the infection the city is full of crumbling buildings sinkholes spores zombies and it turns into a massive river when it rains for two days yeah i i don't really know how it works i never even questioned that shit i was so taken away by the um the cranes i never stopped thinking about them i i almost felt like i was just missing a part of my brain bridge the crane bridges yeah there's more than one there's more than one crazy there's more than one and they made him so rickety and unsafe they must be losing they must be losing people every other day because a gust of wind comes along and just blows someone off fucking nuts uh in contrast the typical uniform of an e-fap soldier simply consists of a surplus bdus and a gas mask the great long man allows his minions to equip themselves with they deem necessary oh wow if you're in the long man army you get to use whatever weapon you want now that is true freedom and choice water bricks urgent bigot sandwich whistle yes that's um uh i could see that coming up in the subtitles for sure it's cool to see a place i'm familiar with seattle no it isn't i live in washington trust me if i never saw that place again i would be it would be too soon uh i am i am fine with bringing up that it's cool to see stuff you know from real life in a game i just i don't i'd like why would any of us care you know yeah all right i guess it's cool i guess sure um the story's pretty good huh it's fans are right he is hilarious and shouldn't be taken seriously oh oh my goodness right west completed i'm so very happy um the story is faithful to the original crusade time from uh axis oh that makes sense because he's got a little crusade man as an icon yeah uh interesting choice to say that it was faithful to the original i would i would like to explore that with him i suppose because uh something we've brought up before i don't know if i don't know if we brought up this stream it doesn't it doesn't matter if we didn't because i am now but right at the end of the game marlene is like please spare my life and i'll let you go i won't tell anyone it all says nah you're gonna come after it's pretty obvious and so he kills it which to me is quite a definitive point about the nature of not only revenge but but also what uh marlene wants to do with ali and what he considers it personally and it's a complete counter argument if you will to uh the second game like the second game is like nah just leave everyone alive they won't come after you and they do again and again and again but again it's like damn game i'm not entirely certain of what you're trying to say um the story faithful to the original oh wait i read that one sorry some of the worst war crimes in history had families and were probably friendly to some people exactly which is why it doesn't work you had to make her kill a lot cleaner and then you had to tell us all about how she felt about her father and their relationship they did that wrong on both accounts instead they showed you how much of a nice lady she is with a bunch of people and decided that's more than enough which to me is fucking weird go bereth all heal up but whoa idril can fully heal that's just idril's not op or any i didn't even know that's well i'm gonna stone shield idril i guess that's a nice thing to do probably how much ap does that cast to fully heal well it doesn't matter because bereth was going to move the regions everybody's ap anyway and she's got two different moves that regenerate her ap jeez brain action points from foe yeah i could just do that one let's do this sword one i guess it's like notes journals in skyrim day one this place is nice day four there's some weird noises day 12 someone eight ragnars face off yeah that's what a lot of them fall into and i just don't i got bored of that pretty quickly it happened yeah it happens all the time and where where you come with the journals things started in video games have come across journals that are done by days i just read like only the last two because i know what they do is like things start off normal then a spooky thing happens and then it's oh my goodness i can't believe this happened and you know it all goes to shit in the last entry or two and so that's when i this those elements even bother reading and um i suppose the other element being that uh you'd be like so how's it done well and stuff then i was like i always want to reference bio shock i always remember finding the audio entry so interesting yeah they were each of them such such thorough characters and the old they could they could talk about anything it could be like working on the fucking pipes for riot but he doesn't care it's like we're spread leaks all over fucking rapture we have got the buddy or the resources to fix it it's just you know it's supposed to be commentary not only getting you to know this character but also the state of rapture and how andrew ryan's dream world is falling the fuck apart there's lots of purpose it can serve and i don't know i feel like we're missing a lot of that in all these entries they waste a lot of time but then again maybe i'm wrong because i really wasn't invested anyway so it's tough to you know look at it and be like wow how insightful oh fuck i just healed myself by accident oh well there goes the elf accidentally giving themselves full health um out of curiosity how does the last of us two compare to speckops the line you know speckops the lines creators think exiting the game and never playing it again is valid of course it's valid yeah who thinks that you have to like i guess we need to be specific with our terms here so if the last of us point is like we're trying to get you to stop playing the game i'd be like wow that's a really uh subversive sort of attempt at giving to the medium but um i would say that all the shit that happens in that game kind of counters that point doesn't it like that you need to see through to see it through to the end to see the points they're making about revenge i hope that's a trend that doesn't catch on what games and games and films encouraging you to stop consuming them it's like damn yeah like i feel i just feel like that's a little self-destructive i'm doing really bad against these now it's cool yeah speckops the line is through the roof better than um the last of us two but i really i do have an issue with with bringing stuff like that up because it's just like it's not a high bar we all know it why are we even doing this and fast god everyone's so low on ap i hate you all well almost a thousand damage per hit let's you know it could be worse also why are there three Nazgul here i just realized that's probably a bad thing for me look at our Frodo like Frodo where are you like why do you talk that way i'm sorry sorry it was just a little sore there and the doctor said i should just whisper the guys like you really spook people when you do this you spoke to my wife yesterday and she's terrified he's like i'm sorry what's up with those outfits yeah like pull the hood down let's you know get some sun what are you doing you're fucking weirdo you know we're stabbing so all of the characters in your party get to go to the gray havens and everything because they were stabbed by morgoblade and they get ptsc and they don't heal quite well oh shit Barothel's dead that's something that you on the left often end up saying uh in this little game you know cleaving wound dwarven cleave i'm so look fuck this i need ap give me lembas that's like ap all right well i can't resurrect him now so that's awkward i guess we'll just use loud water fury on somebody because they don't like water the last of us two should have revolved solely around abbey starting from the aftermath of joel's rampage at the hospital to her trying to round off the last of the fireflies to search for joel and ellie over the course of the game um there's there's a lot of ideas that involve that sort of one i'm okay with it too i'm okay with lots of uh lots of ideas to be honest with you even as theo brought up i'm okay with the one in this game i just think that there's so many better ways to fucking organize it hate my life and everything you're saying they pull a sicario two in the last of us two morley yep done and done they do not give a fuck mountain rage that's better getting some more ap oh wait i should have done a stone shield well everyone's probably gonna die it's fine this reminds me of carl mox yep that's what everyone should have been expecting from the get go it was only a matter of time punisher was shot in the head but that was the beginning of his character journey yeah again this is the same as the likelihood of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning these are things that if your story starts with that that's you know you just found that incredible event sets off a narrative in a story but if these things are constantly happening you know anything can happen at any time so fuck it no rules no state investment yeah i'll even kill my characters they're trying though okay this is getting dodgy how many moves of the Nazgul had like fucking four outrageous please react to girlfriend reviews the last of us two video also hi rags you handsome dog oh hello well we've done donkey and just right which are two highly requested ones so give us seriously they've had like six moves what is this fucking cheetahs i'll tell you can't handle this playing this bullshit Nazgul the best you can do is make them disturbed and understand why they did it oh hey look something berserk did and did better i want to i want to do a fucking tally of the amount of people who are suggesting media that does what this thing is trying to do but better it's so telling all the things just say everybody's like i've experienced stories like this before that taught me better lessons last was to where have you been like what the fuck hey guys my first super chat movie drive movie drive with the rock did revenge and shot to the head much better than last was too but it was set up and pay off so see what i mean about the categorizing movie drive with the rock golem is more moral than abby confirmed well golem only wants the ring like he he i don't think he cares whether Frodo experiences pain or not necessarily i'm gonna go with a strong yes and that Frodo should be president i think just saying no it's not a golem no Frodo either way uh mani is the kind of latino that has to uh has to remind you he's latino by saying a Spanish word every couple of minutes yeah it's a really lame stereotype um and it seems like that's just bled into like how many times have you seen that just happens all the fucking time that's all the time um i i don't know a Spanish guy or a Hispanic person anything that i've met who does that well like you don't metal when he gets all angry doesn't stop going hymen shlime environment this is like afligen hagen flugen hegen it's like man he should be i guess yeah as roger said hey let's say let's say fucking say it all the time pendejo oh so lame why did they make him spit on him dude why what was why would you do that what were you thinking i'm only gonna piss people off they want you to stop imagine if joel was bitten saving abby and ellie shows up in the distance just in time to see abby shoot joel a better idea in six minutes than six years oh so like abby is sparing joel from turning into like one of them and abby on uh ellie only sees the results of that i mean i would still probably have problems with that in terms of contrivance because it's a to make all of that happen that way is tough but um again another idea i'd like to explore and uh potentially go with which is why by the way i'm totally on board with the idea of multiple sequels to one piece of content which is essentially what dark fate tried to be like let's try it again it's like there's no shame in failing and you know realizing that you failed and trying to do better but i think we we haven't gotten there yet and we're far away from it because everything has to be the definitive thing otherwise i think it'll maybe encourage a mindset of picking and choosing and uh it feeling less special and thus maybe making less money i don't know it's all got to be the biggest the baddest the most ultimate the the sequel to end all sequels the biggest blockbuster the world's ever seen and then if you're told like this is just one of the different story lines though it's not that not that big an event maybe people are like uh abby is well written though at the end of the game her muscles have effort atrophied back down to normal that's good character progression right right yes as just right put it she's with it at the end oh wait he was talking about the other one well close enough does neil not know why the glen co massacre was infamous slaughter under trust what did abs do led her savior to a trap and painful death um well i i mean i don't i don't even know why they decided to do that like why did they have it so that joel rescuer it just makes everything even harder to swallow yeah especially considering she doesn't seem to have any like that doesn't affect her at all and you'd think it would like i know if the person i was going to go kill turns out he ended up saving my life i'd be like oh it's like one of those fundamental things you're supposed to be conflicted now because you're like the way it all almost works is i owe you my life i was coming after you because you owed me a life damn damn those call now it's just i mean and then now it's just like nope nothing changes not even gonna stop and pause and think about it like oh you're a horrible person what a shame about that whole being a horrible person like uh jj baby looks like the son of the guy dina was dancing with with jessie jessie was a c i don't know what that was gonna end up being but i can only imagine derogatory terms uh they don't see another one from that account but um the baby looks more like the son of the guy dina was dancing with than jessie i guess okay i mean you know i don't really remember to be honest with you i wasn't i i couldn't care less about the baby it's like whatever uh high rags mola will you play doxels live um i think there was a plan at some point for metal to play doxels too if he does uh i could stream at the same time i suppose maybe we'll we'll do some meming with that that'll be funny um but as for streaming doxels 103 at any point i mean plausible also rags you're gonna say hi back or won't oh hello i'm sorry i didn't catch that in there john wick only needs a pencil not a scissors well i still feel like your fists as john wick probably more effective than using a pencil pencil that crazy john wick plot armor you can use whatever you want use a spoon fucking pencil the game always tries to make abby sympathetic after she does the most horrible things i mean that's their goal right so can you really criticize them when that's their goal obviously not i focus on the worst things you've done well then you're just missing the point aren't you you racializer joel journey across america with ellie some roided aow wfl becoming besties with two asian trannies in one night oh right well yeah of course the timeline and the the first game focuses on two people's relationship the other game focuses on all kinds of relationships all over the place and gets a little bit confusing uh which one do you think was more successful it's like we are we are totally losing this team i'm disappointed in all of you break their legs raw oh my goodness oh i'll give them compartment syndrome all right jesus the violence must be stopped too much oh whoops i missed the intro and i need you to go out for groceries hey molla can you cover amy hennig's writing she was ousted before the last of us two eye wags hello i've heard people say that she was like possibly the reason why the last of us one was well written um i don't know anything for sure about that but uh i mean something was fucking missing from the second game wasn't it because as people have pointed out it's not just a matter of uh the ideas themselves it's even like the tiniest things like just just how people are talking to each other or something is wrong very wrong we're gonna give me a stone shield or probably a drill i guess everyone else can die it's fine can fact gerald be the next dawn let's make his history or his story oh well we've already uh commented on a lot of it right that was that was part of my uh my goal back there was just trying to think of all the small amounts of things we got from him and what can you really determine about his character got some stuff going there is there any gripers in here don't know what that is uh but joel brutally shot poor jimmy before starting his redemption clearly he's worse than abby killing joel and being redeemed by some random kids yeah jimmy didn't even get to go on his redemption off that is kind of fucked up thinking about it that's true nope poor jimmy man my favorite he got down dirty fat gerald's daughter will seek revenge oh my god fat gerald will return in avenger is infinity uh siren did a better job of having you go through a sniper level only to find out the sniper is someone you know partly because you had hints as to who it was see again everybody is non-stop talking about things that are better and you can't blame them just how they feel well it makes you appreciate other games oh yeah oh biting blade is the health one weeping blade is one that hurts them over time nice yeah uh i guess we'll heal one of you losers had hard he's better than barathorn i'm sorry like i said i don't have the ap benefit anymore or if it's just really shit that must be what it is yeah just be down to normal attacks now damn should get us some bonuses uh you like dex what you like dex oh dogs that is a snatch reference good shit dex dex the last of us 2.5 revenge is mine i shall repay seath tommy oh i know right i wonder what deal see the release for the last of us too i feel like it'll be bad people don't like the game because a character they like died he's one of those idiots uh star wars episode five starring talk in junior as he avenges his dad's death by bashing in luke skull shooting on in the head he survives and is almost drowned by leia who has a second last change of heart well the second last change of heart uh sorry last second change of heart you're only saying that as if it's a bad thing because you wouldn't understand that story if someone made it tell me i'm wrong because i'm not okay awesome action points the party there we go man this fight with a ring race it's been going on for a while i hope i win yeah hasn't been going on for a while it they came out of nowhere what can i say um complete with flashbacks that recontextualized talking as the best dad ever who saved wamp rats and wanted peace and security for the empire you make fun of it as if it's some kind of bad idea when you know for a fucking fact it's the greatest thing you've ever heard so i'm outraged that you'd even suggest otherwise um the last of us two should be jimmy's kid getting revenge on joe through but they decided to go a different direction what can you really say let's please kill the ring wraith it did not very well so he was referring to oh it did but he was referring to grithith griffin gaming since griffin sounded pretty much like a leafy clone and sort of acts like a leafy clone and uh in and in criticism of last of us two oh okay so the because i've always assumed that uh like leafy was the one who did the cs go surfing stuff i guess that's stupid because obviously more than one person's probably doing it um but yeah i guess he was the joke is that he's referring to someone when when uh they like a leafy clone whatever all right you dissing on muscle girls weekend suppose we will never know the true answer to that question also oh died that's that's unfortunate loud what a fury it is i found the rat king to be just a typical tank boss fight yeah he seemed like he'd be more interesting than he actually was like that's lame dare i say it was the best thing in the game mechanic wise though and it's not a high praise it's something it makes use of all of your work because when you have an enemy that is a bullet sponge but like you know i don't i'm trying not to mean that derogatorily like they are weak to all of your weapons technically speaking they will lose health to all of them that means you can do whatever you want to lower that overall health bar the fact that things come off it and so that like changes up the fight halfway through in terms of you've been learning how to dodge him and stay around him um and then it's like oh we've got a variable something else is running around and then the area is filled with guns and ammo and it and it can get caught around all the edges like dare i say it's probably the best thing in the game in terms of its goal to create a fight that doesn't fuck itself over with all its shitty mechanics it's weird that we never kind of we never saw that enemy again well i think are even smaller versions of it i think the point was that we went to patient zero area that was locked off and so it's been the longest amount of time in that area meaning that maybe this happens eventually to like yeah but after decades go by you'd think that's time you know i think it could have been really cool like you go into different areas and the there's a different fungal thing like it's not always the same everywhere it's just you know similar but there might be different strains here in this area in that area and they do weird shit they could be really creepy like the little ones coming out of the big ones is like that's fucking creepy and disgusting and nasty that seems kind of cool and they don't do anything with it okay and of course they go to the patient take it from someone who's into buff women any sex scene with that troblodyte should be grounds for nuclear war oh my goodness i just as i've said before i don't fucking want a sex scene why give me a sex scene oh i don't need a sex scene like it was it felt so had a fucking place like why why are you doing this to me who told you to do this to me i need the name um the bonk on the garage door is my favorite part it's amazing the whole thing was fucking basic it's just no way about it do you think the people who love the game find that really confusing like why people like that so much they're like what is it with you guys why do you keep saying how good that is terrible this character that you love and you've been with her so long is getting punched in me man like oh you oh you well see that's kind of what i if i could get just right in a call i probably try and explain i could generate this whole history and using some things that are actually true about fat garrel to say he's possibly the greatest and most altruistic character in the universe and i'd be like do you understand what i just did and then if he was like well that's just your opinion that's fine or if he said well someone that's not true i'd be like oh oh is that yeah do you think i'd just be like where does that take us hmm it's like we're going somewhere else move that can't be counted i don't know what i want to do somebody might fuck it we'll use attacks from now on uh all of the deus ex games except the original hr can be beaten without killing anyone and dialogue can get really awkward if you do kill people yeah but those games are probably good though that's not fair start talking about games to suck and then we can have a like a fair conversation i hate people who do that so rude metosis just put out his last of us two review oh my god i'll have to watch it tomorrow because i'll be oof right on fumes here we've been going for a while talking about the last of us too we're actually we're clocking up to that 10 hour limit soon i think we'll probably stop around then actually because i am desperately in needs of some foodisms wow time really went by fast uh um they literally just talked about that hi rags hello i don't know exactly they're referring to but all right i believe him how do we know the fireflies vaccine wouldn't have had bill gates nanobots in it true i think that's something we need to really be careful about bill gates fucking nanobots son do weekend warrior can you be my wife i can't i can't speak for him so maybe one day i love dunk but his last of us two take made me want to excrete uric acid on his wife's cranial epidermis oh my that's very detailed it seems like it was planned as for as soon as he came up with the take that you didn't like and that shows how truly pathetic you are disgusting horrifying uh matthew mitosis has released his review of the loss of it too yes yo matthew mitosis just dropped his review of the game also hi rags hello i think the best way to successfully implement themes into media to allow the audience to interpret them freely rather than try to force a certain viewpoint onto the audience and brow beat them to agree with it agreed uh i think it's best to show the pros and cons of all of the different answers as best you can and then uh but but of course there are some things that like are really fundamental and some might say it's reckless not to try and dissuade someone from something that's particularly bad like say for example a story was like you should always pursue money even if like the cost of lives around you could be like that's a strange hmm odd you know it's like it's helping on it it's like killing animals can be good you're like what do you mean by that but what's going on there it's like i don't know just killable our how else are you supposed to make your bigots true bigot sandwiches are not going to be made on their own they require the death of animals my god ellie i should have died by drowning joel well that's her life may not have been meaningful that way i'll forbid for god's sake molla please play kotor one and two is legit the best styles content next to the ot i i'm sure it is perhaps one day also review embargoes prevented talking about abbey oh fuck that shit specifically seems weird wow so they thought it'd be like an amazing reveal when you take control of abbey why fuck that people would have the same reaction either way first off which is no why how could this happen like this is like a little this is like a little section right so i'm really short oh no it's like oh yeah someone showed me that clip where beauty pie is like i play as if for 10 hours what are you talking about it's like oh no beauty bad you poor soul he just didn't know i am i i got used to it pretty quickly uh i'll be honest with you because i was just i already knew the game was miserable at that point so i was just like yeah i suppose it makes sense you'll make me play as this person for the fucking rest of the game like anything you could think of in terms of um a bad choice oh dude fucking barithel just leveled up almost three times after that fight what the hell was this fight it came out of nowhere it's like given all my team triple levels oh so if had had doesn't live he doesn't get the xp oh is that true so what just happened i might have missed it wait can you double check he's got four he's level 33 back out and check on barithelor because if that's the case i mean i don't know it all seemed i didn't all right i mean maybe i just didn't see it dude idril is totally balanced look at that shit man definitely should be oh you got unbalanced sir yeah i know i had to i had no choice i'm sorry that i'm sorry all right good if you'll probably save my game now because i'm spooked about dying so how about that matthew mitosis video odd to see such a bad take from him oh no why are you saying it what did he say who did he who did he kill the couple of scenes in f m a b between scar and winery oh full metal alchemist brotherhood of course uh did the endless cycle of violence seems so much better than this entire game again another comparison probably i would say kind of unfair to even bring up since we're out with a lot of these hashtag seth was right to make zebra steak sandwiches agreed have you guys seen martyrs played hunt showdown i've no not really i only played it like a game or two in the pre alpha and it was it's interesting i watched most of super bunny hops video on i think it was the hunt showdown and i was pretty impressed with how he explained all the different mechanics in that game um and that apparently it was better to not have played it in any of the earlier stages because it's at its best right now and it's like a relative gem like no one really cares about it but it's pretty good that's what i have heard could be wrong oh people have heard good things people saying f it's uh we're not down right we're still going was it would you say was it would it would it and as for martyrs i recognize that name i don't know if i've seen the film or not but i definitely oh is it f's for brimley that uh yeah of course for anybody who doesn't know wilford brimley has passed away which is pretty fucking ridiculous um and i do point a finger at the universe for that one being pretty mean uh but yeah uh we did we found out i want to say an hour ago or so i'm not sure the irony that the last of us two says sympathize with others when it's closed minded bigots is uh sickening they're really saying sympathize with me hypocrites do it they wait they want you to feel more empathy for the psycho murderer than the person who calls someone a dyke well if we're talking about levels of evil don't you think the man who makes a sandwich for someone is kind of just top class yeah i think he's just trying to lure her in closer so we could punch him in a garage door oh my god i knew it he takes yeah he walks into the the bar the tavern whatever it is one day it was just a random garage door pulled halfway down he's like what's this for he's like oh no no no no reason no reason no reason can you stand here like yeah okay here and look this way please randomly what pow for so dull uh press square to advance to the next super chat ah i shall press square boom the last of us three plot daughter of the soldier that shot joel and killed sarah at the start of the apocalypse guest revenge on tommy for killing his dad yep and then tommy's son that we hadn't met yet gets revenge on all the people involved that did that it's gonna be great ten out of video game shut up press j to say joel did nothing wrong there you go folks press j if you believe joel did nothing wrong let's go even further back it's all test's fault because test convinced joel to go on the journey with ellie or was it marlene's fault robert's fault yeah this is the thing fucking just right the stupid he's his his fault everyone died uh billions have been granted to multiple highly advanced biotechs to find a cure for covid but abby's dad in a rundown hospital was guaranteed to cure the spores sure game sure i can't remember who i was talking to about this but um if we were tasked with making this a possibility when we get told one no such thing as a vaccine for fungal infections yet they're all in early stages nothing is concrete or complete two it's very unlikely we'll be able to generate a cure for this thing while it's simultaneously being able to ravage the entire world and three that uh if a cure was made all of the ways in which to create something that was sure that could get around and everything it was like these these are all things that can get in the way i'd be like right guys we need someone who knows how cures are made and distributed we need to bring them into the writer's room and we need to work on this for a long time okay it'll be tough but you can skip out on all of that if you just do what they did so just do that now just say it the cure wouldn't fucking fix the rat king boss no it wouldn't fix any of them it's too late for all of them all the infected will remain infected it doesn't it's not like someone dying of cancer and then you give them the cancer cure and the cells can actually regenerate and fix them not it's not the same thing they they're fucking gonzo okay they are creatures of of of dead in it was it reminds me of the walking dead when uh season two there's a character who's like we can we can bring him back one day we can save up it's like they're fucking everything's falling off them okay you know you know really comes a reality on this one remember the remember the clickers there's not even a face in there it's just yeah i don't i don't know but i would be curious to see what happens if you inject on a cure into them maybe they just fucking explode as i'm sure i don't know uh skelosia predicted this efap praise jimmy skelosia was uh third best character behind seith and uh fat gerald of course when the fireflies the terrorist even before society totally collapsed so i don't have all of the facts about the fireflies um but i remember the game opens with being like holy shit the fireflies are assholes and they give you lots of reason to think so very interesting um but yeah i would say we'll probably cut off there about two minutes from 10 hours obviously rags and i've got to catch up on quite a few super chats i think what we'll try and do is uh no batwoman release on wednesday instead we'll try and do a long long stream all for super chats if possible um i will make sure to stay free on friday or wednesday yeah we will uh we'll try like i said try and make it a long one in fact i'll even turn on sound on the third age for it because uh howard shore is welcome to have it you know the super chat catch up if he really wants to i i know he's into our show wow it'll howard why howard why um but thank you thank you all so much for tuning in the last was to is quite a disaster it's going to take a while to get through all of the arguments being made in favor of it to see if we were being a little bit too far up our own wrongness nah but so far we're not very convinced uh these arguments yeah hopefully that wasn't the best of uh what's on offer because those were both pretty bad not that we expected too much from them but it doesn't give one hope i mean just right thank you for the memes and dunke oh yeah golden i mean dunke keep at it i guess uh if the goal is to try and make some jokes then you'll you know he does hit sometimes just that one wasn't too uh fantabulous and of course thank you for allowing us to have an opinion as we allowed you to have yours you know that's that's the that's what it's all about that's what's so powerful about it um so yeah uh what else is there i guess i will collect up these ready for wetness day there is a playlist you can find of me playing through all of the last of us two if you weren't already aware of such things um and work has begun on what is essentially the last of us two video uh i'll be able to tell you more as time goes on because i'm still in the earliest stage of splattering notes everywhere uh any updates rags work wise you know just kind of going along as i can to add them to it so it's coming and it'll be out when it's out we have we have a meme take a look oh my god let's see saving pregnant zebras and doggas oh my god oh my god an orphan puppy he's from becoming bigot sand which is a pack girl scary as zebra in the dawn oh my goodness oh look at all those little rags oh there's so many there's so many of them we are a new race we won't prevail yeah that's a straight up movie oh and it was written by competent writers damn but it wasn't directed by ryan johnson oh my god this looks like it could be good just the arms of the dawn yeah uh thank you very much beowyn some awesome shit that's incredible uh i gotta get both sliced one yeah we will catch you on wednesday and uh again that oh fucking hell i just realized the ethap will be maybe we'll do it tuesday because the ethap will be thursday ethap is thursday guys two days earlier than normal and that of course uh we will be able to well whatever whatever happens thank you all for hanging out with us thank you very much for the very kind donations as i said we will catch up with them as soon as permits uh and thank you to our guests for hanging out for so long it's been fun and the coverage of the last was too is not over good night all good night everybody yeah i'll uh i'll see you later bye