 Okay. Good evening everybody. Welcome to Classic Tuesdays, the All About Eve edition. My name is Dan. I'm the Director of Development Programming for the Bedford Playhouse. I hope everybody is safe and well. Just a very, very quick announcement before we start tonight's program. For those of you who aren't familiar with Zoom, if you have a question that you'd like to pose to John at any point during the evening, there is a Q&A button. For those of you on laptops or computers, it's at the bottom of your screen. For those of you on iPads, I believe it's at the top of your screen. At any point during the evening, if you'd like to submit a question, there have been a few that have been submitted in advance. But we can take questions and John will answer them when he begins his talk. So without any further ado, we're going to turn it over to John virtually and talk about All About Eve. Hi everyone, it's John Farr again back with our second installment of Virtual Classic Tuesdays brought to you by the Bedford Playhouse in beautiful Bedford, New York. Tonight we salute the greatest film ever made about Broadway and the theater, All About Eve, which incredibly celebrates its 70th anniversary this year. Beyond its many other virtues, it boasts one of the cleverest scripts ever produced penned by its director, Bedford's own Joseph L. Manckowitz. It earned 14 Oscar nominations, a record that wouldn't be equaled for nearly half a century. The Genesis of All About Eve was a short story in the May 1946 issue of Cosmopolitan magazine called The Wisdom of Eve. Its author was Mary Orr, whose husband had directed then famous stage actress Elizabeth Bergner in a play called The Two Mrs. Carols back in 1943. Bergner had told Orr the true story of a star-struck young woman who hung around the stage door during the run of that play night after night. Eventually Bergner took pity on her and hired her as a secretary, but over time the young woman proved to be underhanded and definitely out for herself and Bergner had let her go. Orr was inspired to write a story about it, making the girl even more ruthless to the point of threatening her mentor's career. Three years after it appeared in Cosmopolitan, Orr adapted the story into a radio play which was broadcast on NBC. Well, it just so happened that someone at 20th Century Fox was listening. Fox promptly offered Mary Orr $5,000 for the film rights, a hefty sum at the time, so she accepted. Of course, she would later feel she'd settled too soon and for too little. Meanwhile, back at Fox, Joe Mankiewicz, one of the top writer-directors in the industry, was on a roll. His previous film, A Letter to Three Wives, had earned him double Oscars for both directing and writing. He'd also earned the respect of studio head Darrell F. Zanuck, who supervised all the A-pictures for 20th Century Fox. Mankiewicz read The Wisdom of Eve and lashed on to the idea of a young, calculating, aspiring actress methodically undermining an older star. He then wrote a first script draft, with Zanuck himself serving as a highly capable editor and sounding board. Mankiewicz's working title was Best Performance, but in the script, Zanuck had underlined a phrase of dialogue that's uttered by theater critic Addison DeWitt early on. That phrase? All about Eve. Now, as this new decade was starting out, the movie industry was undergoing a period of enormous upheaval with the Hollywood blacklist. And at the same time, it was turning its cameras back on itself. 1950 would see the release of Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard. 1952 would bring The Bad and the Beautiful. And in 1954, the first remake of A Star is Born. Just as these films showed the dark side of Hollywood, all about Eve would expose the underbelly of Broadway. Finally, Joe Mankiewicz finished his script for Eve and turned to casting. He soon decided on Claude Colbert for Margo and Anne Baxter for Eve. He'd noted that the two actresses actually resembled each other. And he wanted to use this resemblance to create the impression that Eve actually transforms into Margo over the course of the film. Well, Colbert, of course, would have been a very different Margo to the one we know and love. What Mankiewicz had in mind for her was a slightly world-weary pretentious elegance. The actress badly wanted to play this bitchy part. She'd been noble way too often in her career. That on the set of her current film, a war drama called Three Came Home, Colbert did a scene where she gets assaulted and ruptured a disc in her back. Suddenly, she was out and she was heartbroken. She later said she cried for years. But who to replace her? Well, at first, Xanax suggested Marlena Dietrich, but Mankiewicz felt she was all wrong for it. What about Betty Davis? Well, Xanax and Davis had had a nasty fight back in 1941 and hadn't spoken since. Well, now I had a very good reason to re-establish contact. Once arguably the biggest female star in Hollywood, Davis was now in a pronounced mid-career slump and she knew it. As Xanax briefed her, at first she thought it was put on, but when she heard him mention Colbert's serious back injury, she snapped to attention. She also knew Mankiewicz was brilliant, though she'd never worked with him. Betty could hardly wait to get off the set of the mediocre picture she was wrapping up. She rushed home, scripted in hand, arming herself with a stiff scotch and a pack of cigarettes. She retired to her room to read it through. Well, within minutes she knew she was onto something special. The next morning she called Xanax and said, Darryl, I should very much like to play Margo Channing. And so it was done. About Joe Mankiewicz, she would later say, he resurrected me from the dead. Other key female roles were taken by Celeste Holm and Thelma Ritter, both of whom had worked on the director's prior picture, A Letter to Three Wives. Holm plays Karen Richards, the playwright's wife who ends up betraying Margo, while the Brooklyn-born Ritter is Margo Channing's maid, Bertie, the only one who immediately sees through Eve. Mankiewicz had to fight to use Holm as Xanax and she had just had a contentious contract dispute, which left a sour taste. Well, soon enough, Betty Davis would come to dislike her co-star every bit as much as Xanax did. By contrast, everybody loved the kind down to Earth Thelma Ritter. She'd been discovered after doing a walk-on part in 1947's Miracle on 34th Street. She'd go on to appear in more great films like Rear Window and Pillow Talk. The male roles were taken by George Sanders, playing theatre critic Addison DeWitt, Gary Merrill as Margo's fiancée Bill Simpson, and Hugh Marlow as the playwright Lloyd Richards, who's married to Celeste Holm's character. Finally, the small role of a sexy starlet on the arm of a fat cat producer went to a still unknown player named Marilyn Monroe. She was paid the princely sum of $500 a week. Now, notwithstanding the rip between Davis and Celeste Holm, shooting went really smoothly. Manquitz had been warned about how moody and demanding Betty could be, but he'd been really pleasantly surprised. Years later, he had the chance to ask her why she'd been so well-behaved. She replied that for her as an actress, there was nothing better than a truly wonderful script, plus a director who knows what he wants and how to ask for it. Indeed, the whole company recognized they were part of something really first-rate, and they all upped their games accordingly. The production was marked by a torrid romance between Gary Merrill and Betty Davis, both of whom were still married to other people, but not for long. They would tie the knot shortly after the production wrapped. Ten years later, they were divorced, realizing they'd fallen in love not with each other, but with their characters in this film. Seen today, beyond terrific performances from Anne Baxter, Thelma Ritter, and George Sanders, all about Eve really stands as a showcase for the singular talents of Betty Davis. Before shooting began, Davis had asked Manquitz for a key insight into her character, and he replied, Margo's the kind of woman who treats her mink coat like a poncho. Well, she took that direction to heart, giving Margo her cynical quality that manages to suggest both toughness and vulnerability. Her unusually husky voice in the film made some people assume she was basing her performance on flamboyant theater star Tallulah Bankhead. There was another reason to connect the two. Several roles that Tallulah had originated on Broadway, Betty had taken to the screen. Most memorably, the lead in Lillian Hellman's The Little Foxes. Anyhow, Tallulah herself bought into this theory, or pretended to, and used it to create a public feud that brought her a lot of publicity. She was no fool. Of course, the real source of Betty's gravely voice was a vocal cord injury as a result of screaming fights where there soon to be ex-husband William Grant Sherry. Daryl Zanuck was heavily involved in the editing process once shooting wrapped. Often to his director's annoyance, he further trimmed scenes and dialogue, cutting the film down from nearly three hours to 138 minutes. By this point, Zanuck was so confident they had a hit that he decided to forego audience previews. When All About Eve was released that October of 1950, the critics raved, and the film also performed well at the box office, grossing $3 million over its initial run. At Oscar time, beyond its record-breaking 14 nominations, it became the only film to draw four acting nods for women. Davis and Baxter for Best Actress, Home and Ritter for Supporting Actress, but none of them won. And Baxter lobbied hard for her Best Actress nomination. She'd won Best Supporting Actress back in 1947 for a film called The Razor's Edge. She didn't want to be in that category again. And believe it or not, she was favored at the time to win. Davis was older, had a reputation for being difficult, and had already won two Oscars, though she would later say for the wrong films. Regardless, Baxter's push divided the vote, and in the end, newcomer Judy Holliday won Best Actress for the comedy Born Yesterday. George Sanders did win Best Supporting Actor, and in a highly competitive field including Sunset Boulevard, Father of the Bride and Born Yesterday, all about Eve won Best Picture, which was a sweet victory for Daryl Zanuck and Fox. And Joe Mankiewicz pulled off a feat that's never been duplicated, picking up Oscars for his direction and screenplay for the second year in a row. So he won four major Oscars in two years. Twenty years later, all about Eve would be musicalized on Broadway as applause, with Lauren Bacall as Margo Channing. In a case of life-imitating art, when Bacall left the cast, she was replaced by none other than Ann Baxter. Next week, we're featuring a serious drama from 1960 called, Tunes of Glory, directed by Ronald Neane. This is the story of two very different military officers competing for the loyalty of a Scottish battalion. It features the brilliant Alec Guinness in a very atypical role, as well as a superb John Mills. We'll discuss the film itself and also the careers of these two fabulous actors who'd worked together before. And now I'm ready for any questions or comments on all about Eve. Thanks for watching, everybody, and see you next week. Okay, and now we turn it over to John for your questions. John, I know you've got a few that were submitted in advance, so why don't you take it away with them? I will, I will, I will. Hello, everybody. Hold on just a second. I'm getting myself adjusted here. Can everybody see me? I trust they can. All right. The first question. Can you talk a little more about Mankiewicz since he is not as much of a name as some of his peers? And what happened to him after Cleopatra? Well, the thing about Joe Mankiewicz was that he did a lot of different things in the movie business. He was always a writer, but he was not always a director. And for a long time, he was a producer. And two of the movies, I mean, he produced, he was a very big producer at MGM in the 30s and early 40s. And that's what he was focused on. He didn't get a chance to direct until 1946. But he produced two movies that you may remember. One is the Philadelphia story. And the other is Woman of the Year with Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn. And the famous story I always love to tell about Joe Mankiewicz was that he introduced Tracy and Hepburn. And Hepburn had adored Tracy from afar because she, not that it was, you know, she desired him, but she thought he was the most brilliant film actor she'd ever seen. And he made it look so easy. But he didn't know her at all. They meet and she's so nervous to meet him that she says, well, Mr. Tracy, I'm a bit, I'm a bit tall for you. Because she was five nine and he was five 10 and a half. And he just looked at her like what, what, what is this what you're saying to me. And Joe Mankiewicz looked, but it looked at both of them said, don't worry, Kate, he'll cut you down to size. So that was, that was a famous story by Joe Mankiewicz when he was a producer. And then he became a director later on and did very well as a director. He was fired from Cleopatra. I think he was probably grateful to be fired. But he went on to do a couple more things by the time he was fired from Cleopatra. He was in his early fifties and he went on to do, in my opinion, one more really great film called, I wonder how many of you have seen it called sluth. With, with Michael Cain and Lawrence Olivier, and that is the fabulous from 1972. And by that time he's in his sixties, he's 62, 63. And after that, he did some TV, but he didn't, I don't think he, I don't actually add that then he was done. I think he'd had enough, but he done very well. Mankiewicz had a very rich career as a writer, a director and a producer, which not many people know. Also, some of you may know this, but his older brother by 11 years was Herman Mankiewicz, who was also was never a director but very much a writer, and wrote co-wrote Citizen Cain with Orson Welles. So the next question is, since the film starts with Eve receiving an award, doesn't that make the entire backstory ironic since we know that's where she's going to end up? I don't think the point of the movie is whether or not Eve is successful in her career or not. The way I've always read it is she's going to be successful. I mean, there's no doubt about it. She's ruthless as hell. The fact is that she's an empty human being and not loved. And then at the end of the day, what we all want to be is loved. She's not loved and wouldn't be loved. And people understand what she is. And so her comeuppance is that she is a person who will do anything to get ahead and her career is everything to her and she's got very little else. And that's hardly alive. So that's the way I've always read that. It's not about, oh, well, why is Eve successful? Eve is successful because that's all she cares about. That's all she has. And she'll do anything to get there. But over the course of the film, there are enough people who basically tell her where to go, including Margo in a famous line, that you don't sense that, oh, I'm jealous of where Eve has ended up because even if she's extremely successful, she's not a very happy person. But anyway, that's the way I read it. Now, oh, here's a juicy one. Were there any catfights behind the scenes between Celeste Holman, Betty Davis, or Betty Davis and Marilyn Monroe? The answer is yes. There were lots of catfights. Betty Davis, as I said, was very well behaved on the set, but she could not stand Celeste Holm. I don't know what it is about Celeste Holm. A lot of people could not stand a woman. Supposedly Celeste Holm came on the set and in a very formal way said, oh, hello, Miss Davis. It's a nice day, isn't it, or whatever she said. And Betty Davis looked up and said, oh, shit, good manners. And Celeste Holm was so offended that she wouldn't, they basically didn't talk for the rest of the shoot. That was that. And then with Marilyn Monroe, even then Marilyn Monroe, who was an unknown at the time, was extremely nervous to work with Betty Davis, who was a total professional, knew her lines, knew her marks. You know, if you were going to work with Betty Davis, don't muck it up. And of course Marilyn Monroe, even then, had issues with being on time, had issues with remembering her lines, would get nervous, would blow up, as they used to say. And at one point, I think Betty Davis was very cruel to her and said, listen, you wiggle your ass, excuse my language, and you have your little breathy voice, but that's not acting. It was very, very mean, but just gave it to her. And of course Marilyn ran away in tears and vomited in her dressing room, and it was not a nice thing. At the same time, again, Betty Davis was like, you know, let's get on with it here. And Marilyn always had issues, and they persisted throughout her career. Nobody could have imagined that Betty, sorry, that Marilyn would go on to become the superstar that she did. But as you can see in this film, the camera loves her. I mean, when you see her, in any scene she's in, you have to be looking at her. And she's actually wonderful in this film. The other movie she made that same year with John Houston directing was The Asphalt Jungle, which is a very different movie. But, and she plays the mistress of a much older man played by Louis Calhoun. If any of you haven't seen The Asphalt Jungle, it's wonderful. It's a crime drama. It's one of the really great movies. Those were the two movies she made in 1950. So she was on the way up, because those were both absolutely fabulous movies and, hey, productions completely. Now, who are the actresses? Here's the next question. Who are the actresses who either passed up the role of Eve Harrington or Margot Channing, who lived to regret it? Well, Anne Baxter got it right away. And she was a fox. She was under contract to fox. So that worked out great. In those days, you had, they called it a stable. That sounds demeaning today, but it was a stable. It was, you know, people who were under contract. Daryl Zanuck was all too happy to use Anne Baxter because she was under contract to fox and had been. So there was no doubt that she was going to be Eve. Margot Channing was going to go to Claudette Colbert, who I adore, by the way. I love Claudette Colbert. If you all go on our site Best Movies By Far and look up her name, there are many wonderful movies that she did. She would have been very different from Betty Davis. She badly wanted to play this part. But there she was on that other film. And she basically, I guess, got tackled or something. There was a moment and she, I mean, imagine, I've actually heard a disc in my back and I know how debilitating it is. That poor lady and to think she knew she was not stupid. She knew this was a great part. And she was just miss, you know, gonna miss out on it. But she was always very gracious in saying that Betty did a great job, which of course everybody knows she did. And, you know, she was a classy lady. So she was nice about it. And it's very cool about Betty Davis that she knew what this part meant to her and that she needed it, that her career needed it. I mean, to say, you know, Joe Manquitt's resurrected me from the dead. She knew her career was like, that wasn't good. She was making some crappy movies. And then this thing just happened to her. And it, and it gave her a whole new life. And it is the, frankly, it is the movie that she is, well, among two or three others that she's best known for. I'll just do a quick plug for a film called The Letter. If any of you haven't seen Betty Davis in that movie, and that was directed by William Weiler, one of the greatest directors of that period. And they were, they were having a bit of a love affair together, but it's, that's 1940 and it's as good as it gets. She is absolutely fabulous in that. But the, but the movie that people think of when they think of Betty Davis is all about Eve. And for good reason. By the way, I saw today that there were all, there was another New York Times piece, or there was a New York, yes, it was a New York Times, it's about all about Eve. I don't know what the hell is going on. We had his girl Friday all scheduled months in advance, and they do a piece on that. And now we do all about Eve and they do, they do another piece. Somebody at the New York Times is spying on us. I'm convinced because I cannot believe that both of our selections have been covered in the New York Times. But anyway, I suppose worse, worse things could happen. Now, I have another question here. No, we just did that one. Now, given that it won Best Picture in 1951 at the Academy Awards, was it a sure thing when Zanik and Mankiewicz started plotting it, or did it have a lot of bumps before it was turned into film titanium? What a wonderful question. Look, Joe Mankiewicz had won double Oscars the year before, and people for writing and directing. I mean, he was, he was white hot in Hollywood. And he just picked up the story. He had in mind an idea about, he had in mind already an idea about an actress, aging actress. But then when he read The Wisdom of Eve, it all came together for him. And Daryl Zanik read that first draft and I think he knew that they had something really good. Did they know it would be as successful as it, as it became? No, no, but you know, that's rare. How do you know? You don't know. That's the beauty of the business. But the script was so damn good. I do want to mention again, I said it in my talk, but as good as Mankiewicz was, Zanik was terrific at editing because I was able to go back and look at things that were cut in the script. And what it shows is that, I mean, it was all very clever, but it wasn't absolutely necessary. So Zanik was good about saying, you don't need this, you don't need this, cut this, cut this, cut this, or be careful here, etc. And, and to Mankiewicz's credit, he listened to him. And they had a, they were never, I don't think they were very close personally, but they had a very good professional relationship and mutual respect for each other. And so that's what led to this. And it holds up so beautifully. And in this day and age, I don't, I don't like, I shouldn't trash new movies. I don't mean to trash new movies because new movies, there's some great new movies. And what movies can do visually and graphically is incredible today. But what I love about this movie is to be reminded what an amazing script sounds like. Because it is about the script. The script is unbelievable, in my view. So anyhow, those are the questions that I have been given. Are there any others that, that you have that I can answer now? All right, John, we do have a couple more questions. There's a couple of people who have asked this slightly different ways, but it's the same thing. Do you think the film could succeed as a remake? You know, I got to tell you something. Hollywood has learned the hard way that doing remakes of great movies is tough because you have such a high bar to meet and you're going to be compared to this high bar. The thing, I think it was Michael Cain who said it, who said, well, why the hell did they do that? Why don't they make remakes of bad movies? Why don't they make remakes of movies that could have been better, but the casting was wrong, or it was, you know, there were other issues and make it better? Why do you take a movie that is so perfect? Perfect is a strong word, but so wonderful. And try to do it again. I agree with that. That said, you could take something like this. I mean, but this is about the theater and so much of it is, you know, this was the day when Broadway was still, you know, this very glamorous profession, noble profession, in quotes. It's different today. How would you say, well, we're going to put all about Eve in present day? You could do it. You could do it. But it's such an iconic film that everyone would know you were doing it, and it would be compared. So to me, if I were the producer, I would pause. But that's just me. Okay, the next question we have is, do you consider Addison DeWitt to be a good guy or a villain? Oh, I love Addison. I'm the American Addison DeWitt. No, I'm not. But, but Addison DeWitt is the ultimate cynic. He sees everything through his gimlet eyes. He sees through everybody. And that's his shield to be able to live in this world of the, the world of the theater where everyone is jockeying for position. And people are going up and people are going down. The way he deals with it is to have a certain distance and a remove from it so that he can comment on it. And that's what the film gives you. It's really all through him. So I love him. I feel sorry for him because he's not a happy man. He's not a hopeful man. He is a cynical. The word cynical is a word that's used a lot when this movie is discussed. And he is cynical. He sees it as it is. And, but you have to love him. He's charming and he's smart. And he's not going to be fooled around with. And that wonderful scene where he just basically tells Eve where to get off. Don't mess with me sweetheart. You know, you know, look, I'm not as into it. Do you know who you're dealing with here? His whole deal is that he, he is two steps ahead of everybody else. And he's chic. And he is sophisticated. And he's not a warm and fuzzy character. But you got to love Addison DeWitt. So yeah, I'm, I'm, and it was so lovely that George Sanders, who was a wonderful actor, got the Oscar for this. He deserved it. He was fantastic. Next question we have is, I guess this is sort of less is more, more is less. Why didn't it win more awards if it's the best film about Broadway ever made? I mean, you know, the Academy Awards, if you ever studied the Academy Awards and how they make decisions, I mean, I've done several pieces on when the Academy has gotten it wrong. There are, there are movies that do very well in the moment that don't age well. And there are other movies that do okay in the moment that age really well. And that really is the key here. There are other movies from that year that did better than all about Eve, cheaper by the dozen, Samson and Delilah. You know, Cecil B DeMille. I would not be on here with all respect to Cecil B DeMille. It was one of the great pioneers of film. We would not be talking about Samson and Delilah on this, on this chat we're having. But it made a lot more money than all about Eve did. And it's here. So it's the movies that do well when they come out. And it's the movies that do even better over time. And that grow all about Eve. I mean, the movies that I tend to champion are the movies that actually get better over time. And that get get better every time you watch them. And all about Eve is one of those movies. And indeed again, today there's the New York Times talking about all about Eve. What the hell is going on? It's a 70-year-old movie that is really quite extraordinary. And I hope that you all felt that. And I hope that I'm not wrong in saying that those of you, and I'm sure most of you here have seen the film before. But when you go back and you watch it again, that you don't feel this magic. That it's something that doesn't matter what you've seen it before. You're seeing something else now. Because even though, as I always say, Robert Altman said it to me, even though the movie hasn't changed, you have. And you always see something new. All about Eve is a perfect example of that. And the joy of that script and the joy of that performance from Betty Davis and George Sanders and Anne Baxter and Thelma Ritter. How much do we love Thelma Ritter? That woman, she was so fantastic. I just loved her and everybody loved her, as I told you. Okay, we have a few more. This one says, I was particularly impressed by Betty Davis's courage and willingness to appear with her face, revealing her age and lack of natural beauty. Was she very conscious of this? Well, but in those days, in those days, because everyone drank a lot and smoked a lot. Now we still drink, but we don't smoke. And we're into our health and nutrition and everything else. When an actress turned 40, they were old. And she had never held back. Betty loved to drink and smoke. And she looked older than she was and she knew it. And so for her, she also was all about the performance and the character. The character is an older actress who is past her prime. And so she had to play that character. And she said, Hey, I can play that character because, but the thing about Betty Davis was also that was a gift is that she was never young. Even when she was young, she wasn't young. Even when you see her in Jezebel in 1938 when she was 29 or 30, she was beyond her years. So that didn't bother her at all. I don't think it bothered her. I think I think that was what the part required. You're talking about an actress who I'm getting older. I don't have the looks anymore. I'm getting older. All the smoking partying is taking its toll. And I have this young woman who's young and fresh, you know, snapping at my heels. That was the whole point of it. But Betty Davis, she was not easy. But if that's what the part called for, that's what she did. Here's an interesting one. Could you comment on the intersection of the Hollywood blacklist and the theme of sociopathic behavior and all about Eve? How did the blacklist dominate the thinking and behavior of people in the industry in that period? And how did that shape the subsequent development of American cinema? Jesus. That's a very academic question. And I think about the fact that the Hollywood blacklist was happening at that very moment. I have to honestly tell you that I'm not sure how that impacted Mancowicz and what he was trying to do or say. I think, first of all, it was, I don't really know the answer to the question because I can't discern from my looking at the film any kind of message that would inform, you know, what is this all about with regard to the Hollywood blacklist? We have this situation where people are being, or careers are being ruined. And this awful time of paranoia and accusation and a really dark moment in the history of our country as well as Hollywood. But when I look at it all about Eve, I'm struggling to see, well, is there some message in there that I can link to it? I can. And I do think it's interesting. Others, other scholars may have the answer. I don't have it. But it's interesting that at the same time the blacklist was happening, that that Hollywood was sort of looking back on itself. Somebody said that it was like, Hollywood didn't like to do that in the past. It didn't like to do, well, let's do some movies about how the movie business works. Didn't like to do it. It was, it was soiling your own laundry. I mean, it was not what they wanted to do, but all of a sudden it started happening in the early 50s. Yeah, it had happened with the first Star is Born and in 1932 with a film called What Price Hollywood, but those were, those were isolated. So at the same time, this, the blacklist was, was occurring. That's the moment when Hollywood decides, Oh, well, we'll do some movies that really look at, you know, what our business is like. I don't know the answer to that. I really don't understand it, but I did think it was interesting that that's happening at the same time. The follow up question that John is from the perspective of people being asked to stab each other in the back. I think that's the context of, you know, having it against the shadow. But that's that but honestly, and I get that that's a good point. But that blacklist or no blacklist. That's Hollywood. And that's the theater. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about who's up and who's down. And the blacklist, now maybe that's a good point that the blacklist might have, you know, increased everyone's consciousness of that. But it was the same before the blacklist. I mean, it is the nature of the business. I want that part. You know, she's getting old. She shouldn't be getting those parts. She should be going down. She should retire. She should do character parts. I want to take her place. That's not that didn't come in with the blacklist. That that's much more timeless and universal and that's true in Hollywood. And it's true in Broadway. And the Times piece at all. Well, it was so great that, you know, the Hollywood was pleased to do it for Broadway would have been done for to them but it's all the same thing it's show business. It's it is people jockeying for fame for money for fame and for power. And, you know, but the stabbing in the back angle is something to me. Unfortunately, that's not that didn't come in with the blacklist. We have two more john so first one is why did and Baxter or the director allow the character of Eve to be so clearly and obviously lying or suspicious from the first moment for acting style vocal energy performance feels like a different world. Well, I don't see that. I see. Part of the reason the movie works is that that Eve is quite the guideline. I mean, there's something very charismatic about her. You have to believe there's something really charismatic about Eve. She could make the movie work if she wasn't charismatic. Then, and had no possibility of talent. I mean, then it wouldn't the thing wouldn't hold. And Baxter, I thought played it very well she is. She appears to be suggesting I will do anything to honor you miss Channing. And I would do anything to be in this world of the theater, because I want to be in this world of the theater is nothing else for me. There's nothing else that matters. And, you know, I do think and Baxter was really quite superb and she underplays it. And you can see. You hate Eve all the way along. You don't. I didn't. I think this is a woman who wants something. She wants it really badly and she's got nothing. So it's all, you know, everything is up from here. And you kind of admire that in the beginning it's only when you start to see that she is evil. And without scruples that you begin to really see her true colors. But in the beginning this is sort of a very romantic thing. Elizabeth Bergner that wonderful stage actress. Why would she have hired that lady? That young woman in the red raincoat who's sitting out in the rain night after night at the stage door waiting for her because she's got a dream. And she wants to go somewhere and she loves the theater and she needs to be part of that world of the theater. That's not something that you hate you admire that you your heart goes out to it. It's only when you realize what Eve will do and is willing to do to get where she wants to go that you then say, ah, this woman's pretty bad. Right. So here's one. I think this is probably the capper for the evening, John. Tough choice sunset boulevard versus all about you for best picture. Did they make the right choice. I think they did. You know, it's so funny. Some in some years, you have only one movie that really should win and then sometimes it doesn't. There have been years where there's only there have been years in the academy history where there's only there's only really one movie that that lasts. I mean, that's clearly better than all the others that are that are being nominated. That year. There were there were two. Well, I'm going to say three. I'm going to say three because that's my opinion. Sunset Boulevard and all about Eve. I happen to love father the bride. I'm a big Spencer Tracy fan. I adore that movie. It wasn't going to win. It's not up to that to that level. But when you look at Sunset Boulevard and all about Eve. They are both movies that have that entered the zeitgeist when they came out and that have never really left. Dan, I know you're asking the questions. I know that is your favorite movie. I swear I didn't plant this one. This is not. No, I believe that you didn't and Sunset Boulevard is a movie I adore. I love I love Billy Wilder. I love Bill Holden. That movie gave Bill Holden a whole new lease on life. His whole career was resuscitated by that movie as it should have been. Gloria Swanson was an amazing star from the silent era. Eric von Strahm. I mean, I mean, Sunset Boulevard to ask me to choose between the two is very tough. I just go back to the script of all buddy. I think it is one of the greatest scripts ever written for movies. This is by far the greatest movie ever made about about the theater. And you can and so I give it a slight edge but you're talking about 99 and a half versus 100. So, what everybody should do. Tonight is go off run watch Sunset Boulevard and then decide how they feel they're very different movies, but they're both wonderful and they both hold on beautifully. I think that pretty much puts a wrap on it, John. Thank you very much. Thank you to everybody who tuned in to attend. We hope we'll see you back next week for as John mentioned, we're doing tunes of glory. If you are so inclined, you might want to visit our website, which is bedforplayoffs.org. There's all of our program is listed there on the page. And if you wouldn't mind consider making a donation to help us out while we are shuttered. John is working from his home. As you can see, we all are sort of virtual programming these days so every little bit helps and it's very, very much appreciated. So thanks again. Thanks, John. Thank you all. See you next week. Have a good night. Bye.