 Brian Grace Lee with Wikibon. We're here with theCUBE, live at DevOps Enterprise Summit here in San Francisco. Excited to have Kavina Finn-Bron, Director of Site Reliability Engineering for Salesforce, salesforce.com. How are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. You just gave a talk. You were here speaking. Talking about feedback loops. How do you deal with failures, not so much site failures, but just when things go wrong, talk about the types of things that you're trying to share with people from an experienced perspective. We're trying to get people to really think about how they view failures, learn from the failures, how they interact with each other when they're talking about failure. A lot of times as we spoke about in our presentation, there's the concept of blame. We're trying to push for blameless. You can't be completely blameless, but you can talk to each other, behave with each other, help each other a little bit more, and more of that how and why as opposed to the what happened. We go to so many technology companies that are very technology centric. The DevOps Enterprise Summit is very soft skills, and they're sometimes hard to quantify. They're sometimes hard for type A engineers to wrap their heads around. How are you guys dealing with being able to say, look, we're a group, we're a team. We're trying to service our customers as well as we can. How do you deal with that shift to get them to feel like we can experiment, we can be creative? Salesforce has got a little bit of a maverick mentality. You guys are out trying to change the world. Yes, we are. One of the things that we did specifically around that point was came up with this, the Stryphus model. The idea of there's novice, there's beginner, there's competent, proficient, and expert, and there's all those mixes of people, and all of those people together can actually help solve the problem. You're going to have people in a retrospective or a post-mortem, if you will, that are an expert. You're going to have people who've never done it before that are novices to the process. The idea is helping each other, helping each other learn, making sure that we are aware of our biases. We pointed out that there are some folks in the room, if they've been involved in a post-mortem before, they've worked in a complex system, they have this skill set where they can see that they have a bias, and maybe the people in the room have a bias. So it's more applying those soft skills to the technology to help solve the problems that we see in the technology. Now, you're an executive. As you're talking to your team, there's probably one set of language you're going to use to solve the problem, get things back up and running. How's it different when you're talking to your staff, your chain of command? How do you have to change the language so they understand what you're trying to do? It's funny, I actually don't change the language because I want my staff to understand that how we talk about the problem is how we should be just consistently talking about the problem. So the work that Jay Paul and I did when we went to and I talked to our executives, I used the same language. I actually had my team come and actually helped form some of the presentations in the deck that we used to show them and got the buy in that way. The reason that I do that and the reason I think that it's a good idea is because it's got to go from the top down and the bottom up. So it can't be, it's not a one and it's not a down. It's all of us together solving the problem. So I want everybody to be consistent in what they're saying and what they're hearing. So one of the big things this week, this whole show is very community oriented. There's a lot of sharing. There's a lot of stories being told. How do we get there? But every company's got a little bit of a unique culture. You talked about building your own maturity model. We've heard that. How much of the Salesforce culture impacts what that looks like? I mean, is there an example you can share that say, hey, I heard somebody else talk about theirs and this is ours and they're a little different because of that? Well, I think you pointed out the start of our little chat here that Salesforce is a bit of a maverick. We are very focused on customer success. We're very focused on doing the right thing and supporting our customers. I think that you're going to find that same value set with any company with Etsy. Etsy has a very, I would say a little bit more of a mature process in doing retrospectives than we do. Netflix has a process, Yahoo has a process. But at the end of the day, there's still that same base level idea of how you run a retrospective. Jay Paul talked a little bit about it in our deck. And you take that basis and then you kind of overlay the company culture on top of that basis and that's sort of where you come up with your own model. Thank you, Fed. Salesforce is a little bit unique in that you've got some direct to customer, you've got some where customers use your platform. How much do they come to you and say, hey, we're a technology company too, we're building software and what can we learn from you? I mean, is there a mechanism for you to share some of your experience with your customers? I know sometimes vendors have, you know, customer advice. Is there something that you guys do to share that from a community perspective as well? We do have Dream Forest, which was actually a couple of weeks ago. We do get a lot of customer feedback there. We also have Chatter. Mark Benioff, our CEO is big on Twitter. If you tweet him something, he will respond to you. We're very open with our customers. There's a customer trust is our main value. And there's also a level of transparency there. So we do have customer outreach. We do have our customer support group, our customers for life group, where we are actually interacting with our customers on a daily basis. So, you know, Salesforce, you know, Silicon Valley DNA, you know, looked at one of the big leaders really driving change. A lot of companies here will tell you we're 75 years old, we're 150 years old. What would you say to them if they said, hey, what can we learn from Salesforce? What can I take back to Cleveland, Ohio or, you know, middle of the country or something? And, you know, take some of the goodness that you guys are learning and take it back to their space. I think you heard pre-touch on it a little bit. I think in a lot of these technology companies, these big Silicon Valley companies, we tend to look at the bottom line, the P&L. Salesforce, of course, we look at that. We have shareholders, we have stock and customers. But at the end of the day, it's about our customers. And I think that if more companies take the approach of if we make our customers successful, by doing that, we're automatically gonna be successful, almost flip it on its side. It's really about customer success. If you have customer success, you have business success. Yeah, and I think that's a great point for us to wrap up on. We heard so many companies, we're not talking about technology this week. We're talking about, you know, what are the products that we're delivering? How do we make those customers successful? And I think we're seeing over and over again, just the metrics of DevOps and Agile that are saying doing it this way is gonna help improve that customer interaction, help improve the profitability of the company as a byproduct. So thank you so much for being on. We're gonna wrap up with that. Here at DevOps Enterprise Summit, here in San Francisco, all the videos will be on siliconangle.tv. Thanks for watching.