 I hit go live and forgot to put myself on the screen Details details when you get started Good morning, and it is morning here in Detroit, but that means it's afternoon for at least some of you People have asked me to do more of the Saturday streams. So I said, hey, why not? I'm home already because it's Saturday. I should probably just schedule these though And if there's enough demand, maybe we'll do them on Sundays as well But I you know, I don't mind just It's kind of a fun hangout here where I just talk to a bunch of people go live Discuss some homelab things and do some Q&A and answer questions for people as always though for those more in-depth questions forums That Lawrence systems calm Because I try to check the forums Twice a day sometimes more sometimes because I'm a little obsessive. I might be there more often than that But nonetheless, I you know, there's a reason I push the forums as a place because well It's just a great place to have a discussion where people get in more in-depth about things Because there's always further questions. I guess you could say Actually, it's a pull up the forums real quick. There's always more questions people have and I don't mind answering them So the through the forums up on the screen so, you know, we're talking about here You can always just go to latest and see the latest things people are talking about because sometimes this pops up and I This was a silly one people somehow read and I don't understand I actually my comment is maybe some of you are non native English speakers I'll start with my comment before we talk what we're talking about And if you didn't see the title Chewbacca is gonna support IPv6 only no they said we're supporting We're adding support for IPv6 only networks so If you want to do IPv6 only now people just kept misconstruing this but I thought this was a funny topic To start with they're just like, ah really? I don't know people are Yeah, now Willie's right about this. This is one of the problems. I have with this cord is if you and Let's pull up some analytics. Let's actually talk some real business data In regards to the forums, let's give you some behind-the-scenes look at stuff Um Where do you find hold on I'll share with what I'm doing here in a second. I Just got to get it sorted. We're gonna say last month Share this tab instead hopefully that comes up here you can have a back-end look at the analytics for my forums and What you're looking at here is the fact that there's 33,000 visitors on here and this is only the visitors that chose not to block Google tracking. So It's pretty wild when you talk about just how How many hits I get on my forums I think I can share this data too for those of you wondering a little bit more behind the scenes for how things work We'll share this tab right here and I'll pull there we go. So right here is the daily users visiting my forums and These are people who sometimes have tracking disabled But this is actually my forum statistics and you can see the crawlers 12,000 crawlers visited on 47 so what two two days ago wait. Yeah, it's a ninth two days ago. So you have these You know people hitting it. I have logged in users each day almost a thousand Anonymous people who are just reading 4,202 and another 2,000 crawlers. Why does any of that matter cool time? You got stats but that what does that mean and what that means is frequently when people are searching for problems Because the problem and the question you're asking is frequently either been a answered before or more people have the same question It may not have asked it so by putting all of this within my forums people Find that question. Oh, look, this is how you do that thing or this is the answer to the question My staff have made a joke out of how many times they have searched for an answer for something and found the answer an Explanation in my forums. That's one of the reasons I use the forum so much more than discord because the problem Discord's a great communication platform a great, you know, hey, let's chat with people It is very very poor at problem-solving and That's where it just kind of falls short. It's like great for hey I got a question and maybe someone here can answer this question It's really bad for finding that posted question and looking for the responses In a concise way. So that is that's one of the reasons I talk about the forums so much So that's there. Hopefully that's a long-winded but good reason for to do this also Worth noting right here Willy how is a live stream? He's doing today. I will be ending mine. So when you say but Tom I want more live stream just head over to Willy. He's gonna be talking tech and Doing a live stream this morning as well after mine. So Where I'm doing it before his can depend on how you look at it, but is that coincidental? Yeah I mess this really I you know, we know there's a lot of the same people why you know Why didn't overlap them? I'll talk tech for a little while and then Willy's in a slightly different time zone And he'll start his a little bit later. So for those of you wondering check out Willy how Let's see here. Just started using neck eight units awesome Love the content Keith awesome and thank you very much Toledo Yes, Toledo, man, you're close. You're only about a 30 minute drive from me So maybe 45 to bet and I think to these like 45 minutes. It's not too far But you're in Ohio. So it's Ohio, but you got Ohio things there Sweden there's a cool place. Never been there. Looks cool though Tanzania Hey, no problem Willy next week, let's do a joint stream, you know Looking at calendars. Oh the the best day to do a joint stream would be a Wednesday in two weeks. I'll let people do the math on that one But sure Willy if you want you can even join in this one if you want Feel free to join in if you'd like I can send you a link just uh, you know how to message me. I Know Willy will know if he's got my phone number. So like my cell phone number Because this is StreamYard I can actually add more people in here so It's like you know nice thing about StreamYard is I just send links and people can join They can even join from their phones. So nonetheless Willy really found one of the internet funny numbers the internet funny numbers. We need more internet funny numbers Go to you from MacTelcom Networks. How are you doing today? Jack dangles and coffee. No, not really my thing You know I Jack is one of my drinks But I am not a day drinker at all in any measure or have any interest in doing it So Knocking out tickets. So be ready for next week. All right Absolutely Hey Cody I impromptu and if you're not busy you want to join the stream here I'm just throwing out invites, you know what I mean because why not? If if you're interested you can DM me Cody has my Twitter so he can DM me on Twitter if he's interested Florida man here. All right, we'll go with that. I'm all right with that Florida's where the fun stories come out people are going around riding crocodiles or whatever it is. They do there It's in Florida's an interesting place All right, we'll mess it can't work you right now, but message me and feel free to join me someday It's always fun to have more people on YouTube Morning everyone. How's it going? It is going well because I'm updating things. Oh look more things see I'm going through and I do manual updates at our infrastructure So here's our infrastructure at my office and we're going to update The lab switch, let's see what breaks if we do this I don't know if I shut everything down that's running on the lab. We'll find out so I'm doing that in the background the Unify updates, you know, if I had a bunch of firmware updates, so I'm updating all the firmware I update my infrastructure firmware and My staff updates all of our business firmware for outsiders. I still stay involved in our side of it as well Do it live hell. Yeah, absolutely Ray you want to join in here? I've been asking people if they want to join very impromptu, you know, no preparation There's no script here. This is just it's Saturday morning. Let's say hi to people and talk networking and You know, I'm actually I was doing this part. Anyways, I was updating firmware on unify stuff in our office We got quit it. It's always more and more unify stuff in our office. There's a lot of it now. I Have I have some real content. I'm working on for later But it's not later yet. And I said, you know, let's say hi to all the people on Saturday mornings That tell me they can't do the other ones Test in production, of course I test in production. Who doesn't production on Saturday morning I don't even think about updates until fry, you know, Friday's just you know, make sure my weekends here All right, give me a bit DM and link. No problem. I will fire off a link to you right now, Ray Weird Why was I overlooking Ray you changed your icon and I lost you for a minute. So For those you don't know Ray Orsini, he's joined me on the channel before he is also a fellow tech lover and owns a Rather large voice company. So he's got a lot of networking engineering expertise. So Do I update firmware on a regular schedule update firmware wonders firmware updates So the schedule isn't determined by me it is determined by well in this particular case unify But generally speaking we keep an eye on firmware updates of things That we run unifies easy to do firmware updates for generally speaking. I never have any problems doing firmware updates We unify they work pretty well not not much of a problem Is there a beta channel for unify wouldn't mind testing some bleeding edge stuff from my own Wi-Fi? I Don't know how to say this, but I'll just be honest it kind of feels like some of their stuff might be sometimes a little beta, but Overall, yes, they do have a beta channel. I never use it. Well, I can't say never. I don't use it often But they do you can go look for like pre-release things and you can get the pre-release version of a lot of stuff So still updating so lab switch, what can we update? This is running off the studio the Front port one is up to date. I can't break that one yet That one feeds that one Um This one might break something so I can't update that one yet. I have to shut down some VMs that run through those Womp-womp. Oh, I can update this one. There we go. That one can update This is rotate through them. All right Any records for asset tracking software in an SMB? So one of two ways you can really do this The problem is going to be How do you want to do this if you want to do it with your here? Let me find it So there is asset management with this. This is pretty cool software I don't use it and the reason we don't use it is because we're using our RMM tool to track all the software Because we're tracking with our RMM tool. We don't need this But if you're not this is a pretty cool program for doing it. It's called Snipe dash IT. It's an open source asset management tool But with us, you know, when you're managing at scale you need something that's constantly Agent driven updating and let me know the versions of all the software to all my clients have installed and that's going to be Our RMM tool does that we use Ninja one RMM Wireguard Question here. Hi Tom wire guard Windows 10 client behind three P not Handshaking to PF sense client works fine. If not behind you is she I Don't know why the USG block wire guard. I never use USG so I can't think of off the top of my head But their default config should allow ports to go through So I guess the other question is are your are you Having the port forwards if you're port forwarding make sure you're port forwarding UDP For what it's worth, but yeah Not really sure Do you have our system checking updates or just log in regularly enough? log in regularly daily hourly more than anything else I Don't have a RSS feed for everything on that I usually just kind of you know round robin my way through software all the time and check anything that we're running There's also things our clients run. So, you know like true NAS There's what I know when there's an update to true NAS because I look for the blog posts And I'm usually the one, you know and getting the notifications inside of true NAS, so We spent a lot of time in our lab looking at everything too There's actually a discussion I was in with another one of my tech friends is how many people don't have a lab that work in the tech business I'm like, why not we spend a lot of time testing things before we put them in production We even we're setting up a demo for something. It's there's a whole process We use internally of setting up a series of computers even setting up an entire windows domain to tie things to Prior to the deployment of something so the Yeah, your lab is not just important if you're a home lab to me The lab is equally important if you're in critical business infrastructure because you want to do some testing with any of this Greetings from Australia awesome Unifies claiming that PF sense blocking unified talk even though devices working has exact 10 seconds of data error inbound calls before the phone rings There's all kinds of trickiness with VoIP going through firewalls The VoIP protocols were not written well to they're getting better But now that they more VoIP systems supporting at so it's better But any modern system should support it, but we live in the real world where sometimes they don't properly support it If you don't have a lab you're doing it wrong, right? Why test the lab we can do in production? That's the way our IT helper does it. Yeah Budget home lab for setup learning honestly independent. You have to start with what your goal is I mean, do you want a computer for your lab or do you want a bunch of networking gear for your lab? Do you want a server for your lab or a virtualization server for your lab? That's one of those broad topics We have the home lab show where we walk through people getting started But it still is very broad because it depends what you want to get started doing I mean, honestly getting you servers cheap way to get into it You know what I mean? It's not that's an easy place to start for a lot of it Hey, it's Ray Good morning. How you doing? I'm doing great man You know, I one of those I'm trying to do more live streams because I'm home and I'm like If not, I'm gonna screw around looking at memes on the internet. So I Was looking and said, okay Well, I can go wash the car and clean out the garage or I can jump on the live stream just sounded more fun So yeah, I'm with you man. Yeah, it's rainy day. So I can't you I have no desire to go outside It's it's cold and rainy here still in Michigan We've not we had like 70 degrees in a winter winter came winter went We had like a summer for four days and now it's back to 40s Nice nice. I'm really digging the Saturday live streams by the way. Yeah, I like it Look at all these people on here I get my European crowd because I get the US crowd Thursday nights Like how you do your tech bar and things like that you get those, you know The US people in the afternoon after work crowd, but I bet a lot I see a PC Australia Europe and everyone here in the comments. Oh, yeah, that's really cool I was looking I even saw some people like on the West Coast or say it was six in the morning Like that's not a bad way to do it. Yeah. Well, we're mean you are both early morning people. So oh, yeah My wife looks to me like who are you messaging it like six in the morning five in the morning. I'm like, oh Tommy's awake He's you know, this is that's when I get up and everything. So Exactly. Hey, we see this we see a good day from Australia. So how many European people do we have we got? Oh, we got some Canadians in here Germany Very cool Yeah, actually Australia is where tech tribe is from that's who said yeah, the nice swag You know a lot of people ask about Communities for the IT business world and tech tribes definitely one of the they Nigel's does not a great job with that Just hands off to him Or have a fantastic team the whole the whole team I did a webinar with their live stream with them a while back and Completely unprompted. He sent me a ton of swag He sent me like this nice yeti like they had my name on it and and stuff like But I've been in the group for a year and change and really nice people man. Just awesome group of people Yeah, we got Hungary Canary Islands Netherlands Portugal Sweden all of all this That is cool. That is just the novel does that internet is that Ireland or is Orlando something different? Oh Oh Looking at Raffaella Andrea Torrey Fonseca Vaselli. That's a mouthful. Yeah Bulgaria to wow all over the place South Africa all right. Oh What is the name of the group? Oh, let's pull that up a tech tribe We'll give a plug to him and We'll find Ray's video on This topic as well. I can throw it in the links here So this is tech tribe This is our site. It's um, I could probably put the URL in there, but it's the tech tribe calm Then all the people can't post links. That's the thing. Oh, and yes, it is a Ireland says that's pretty cool. I'm gonna have to Google that Yeah, but a tech tribes really cool. Let me find your video for real quick here on YouTube Oh Was it a technical deficit video? I'll start I'll send it to you in the private chat. Oh, perfect. Yeah, no, I'll paste the link in there Ray has the tech bar. He's got his new on The I just did a video that what is I'm sorry. I'm a MSP. Oh the MSP dispatch. Yeah, MSP dispatch Yeah, we're up to 14 shows right now. It's it's a little nuts Between dispatch so Mondays and Fridays with Tony Francisco We have technical deficits solving challenges partner first subject matter experts and thought leadership And MSP dispatch you did our launch episode Our breaking news with the octopus stuff. Yeah, it was fun So your video is frozen right is it really that's I mean, at least you weren't making a really weird face or something, right? When you're that mid sneeze look or something in the video freezes You know what it is. I normally do that, uh, which I'm called like before I go in a live stream I'll restart the PC. I'll make sure everything else is shut down and You know since this was impromptu. I didn't do any of that Let me let me drop off and I'll come back on in a few minutes. No problem. We'll do How do you clean data sets on Shredance Clial? You don't need to Clean them the ZFS scrub process that runs Log in to that for me here. We'll switch screen the second as we log in or not the scrub process that runs and This runs every 35 days on my system This is what actually scrubs and does data integrity checking. Whoops. Why didn't share that screen? We will fix that. There we go so Yeah, the scrub process is what uh, does the Verification checking and look for a bit rotten things like that Hello, I know you're from australia too You've said it before I'm not trying to reveal not that not that I uh, I never reveal people's details, but I'll say australia That's a pretty broad area um As it turns out kind of a thing I learned about australia from listening to a podcast and then Was also from my friend. I wonder well brett one of brett's siblings is in australia and Shipping things. There's quite expensive. We learned so sending things to australia that cost costs a lot of money right now So that's not as easy as I thought I was listening to a podcast They were talking about the logistics of getting things there in 2022 is a little bit more expensive than usual. So yes But snapshots from kubernetes pods aren't really auto-cleaned and will become more and more. Okay That's a kubernetes problem. Not a zfs or true nasch problem So Ah, yes the land down under that's clever What hardware do you run true nas on? We have a lot of different hardware um This particular system is actually a true nas mini So this is I'll zoom in a little bit the true nas mini 3.0 x With the fancy intel atom processor in there We have another we have we have numerous true nas servers um The other one is a 45 drives q30 server. That's this one here And uh, this one has a zion in there with 128 gigs of memory. So those are two of my true nas servers Uh wi-fi where the wild pings are yep Integrated kubernetes for scale. Well, I don't use integrated kubernetes with scale because I'm not running true nas scale in production So I don't have any idea That's probably a question to ask in their forums because I don't know Ah Your scrub task is 16 hours from now um So it's been released but um And I do have a system Let me find it I do have this system running DSM 7.1. I have a weird problem where one of my other systems doesn't want to load it I don't know why Uh, so that's kind of strange So yeah, I've been testing it. Uh, I have three three synologies and one of them doesn't want to load it And I'm not I I haven't really spent any time troubleshooting. It says it's not compatible with the uh beta I have of the Synology surveillance station. So for some reason it doesn't want to load on one of my systems Thanks for the great videos it general. Thank you for the donation much appreciated. Absolutely I still need to Uh add a nasa some kind of server for virtualization for my network I the two nasa's the most have been synology and true nas I mean, they're not the only ones in the market, but they're really popular. Uh, I have videos comparing them I made you an updated video. I really like the synology for all the amazing Easy integrated apps that come with it. I love the true nas for the high performance and the zfs So I use both they both have good use cases Yeah, it's a pain in the butt to get stuff over here. Um, you're also australian. Yeah nerd senses Wow, $565 for shipping. Yeah, that's true Buying a 60 terabyte ice systems for work excited. Yes They are a great system Good morning on the weekend And rey is not frozen anymore Yay, let's see how long this one lasts Yeah, you know technology uh, let's see Yeah, the dsm updates have been really interesting. Um, I like all the synology surveillance station stuff on them, but Some updated some didn't I like I said, I haven't really dove into that um Uh, I bought two synology servers based on your videos the platform tom big. Thanks. Yeah, and travis who's in here is uh He's got travis. How many do you have now like five different synologies across your network? Travis is one of our uh clientry and he's like the synology fan. He's He's built a five fight. He's got them all for different uses all different camera systems at the business and everything else All business stuff. So it's it's all production. It's pretty cool So what's the craziest thing you've ever seen on a Synology, I hear like vm's being run and dvr systems are pretty common But like what's the wildest thing you've seen? The use for you know, I'm actually been shocked because we've seen some old synologies Really, really out of date at a big company. Um running all of their uh virtual infrastructure And I was like it was a tar story target for vmware But I mean these things were like I didn't know I didn't even think about synology being bought like eight or nine years ago But they were still running Dust bunnies just hanging off of them the front was covered and I'm like you ever have a problem with these or like No, I says anyone consider cleaning them. They're like, I'm always afraid to touch them because they're so old And no one's ever turned them off Right, there's there's that inflection point where you're like, yeah, I'm gonna do daily mate or weekly monthly maintenance And then it's like it's been running. Let me not look at it. Let me not touch it. You know, you're just scared to do anything near it Yeah, that's that's how those were um It was I'm like, dude, you want new ones or like we we like these ones So yes, we'd like to purchase some new ones, but we're not sure we're scared to update turnies law for anything They've been the other IT guy set it up and he's left years ago No one ever touched it since so overall they've been pretty impressed with them For that. Oh, and here's the video. Um, I forgot throw in the chat earlier So that's on there. This was the I forgot which video we sent Oh, yeah, this is the um marketing tactics partner first and this is with, uh Tech tribe right nigel Yeah, with uh with nigel Um, they put out a ton of marketing content every month. It's ridiculous. It's pretty cool Yeah, so for those of you that are in 19, I do highly recommend tech tribe It's uh, yeah, I don't feel too bad that I have a ds 214 plus. I've been running for probably five or six years Uh, and it's sitting under my wife's desk Every once in a while when we clean, you know, we'll go out and I'll blow it out with a little hurricane canister or whatever But it's been running like a champ. It has a bunch of old plex videos and stuff like that so I'm not following um Best practice as we often preach to people so this which is actually odd because the sun is out It's you can it was raining the sun's out and supposed to rain again shortly, but um I say best practice because I wanted to load mine up with everything So this backs up my entire company's g suite. This is also running surveillance station This also runs a bunch of movies with uh, mb. Um, and it's you know, uh, also doing a whole series of Time lapses and everything so I've got this thing It's running at peak all the time and it just doesn't fail So I mean, this is my my goal is actually to break this one to see if I could just like How long can it keep running at a really high rate? We usually when we plot something out for a client We'll say your surveillance station is here your other device is here for each function So you don't overlap them and overload them too much This sounds you for all their greatness when it comes to their Software their hardware is not quite beefy enough to always do everything you want it to do Yeah, I've I've heard that pretty much Um, I mean and I just use it for mass storage when I when I deploy them out So I don't push them too hard And thankfully they do the job really well at least for that This is what's kind of cool too. Let me find the video Uh, let's see drive way one minute per week search These are kind of cool It's going to play a little bit slow probably But it does um a week is one minute So it's going through like months of of changes and things like that. These are how I do those funny time It's a really cool feature That it has so you can just watch like snow or people coming and going They're kind of using the unify cameras with those or what what cameras are you using? No, I'm press cameras. They work really well with technology. They're cheap They have people detection so it notifies me if there's a car in a driveway If there's a person in my driveway or just motion detection because I don't trigger on motion I trigger on object because every squirrel sets off motion And I have a lot of squirrels because I feed them so Wander to my place I grabbed a few amp press a couple years ago. They were like super cheap But they were pts. They were really easy. Um, I put them outside my uh, my window and they worked really well for a long time Kind of go find those again Yeah, there's a Travis tech drive is great absolute plethora of knowledge and industry folks who want to help Yeah, it's just a great place to have a lot of conversation. So Yeah, gball asked, uh, what's happened? Why does my computer require somebody to restart? So at the start of coveted I did Something I haven't done in probably 10 years and I decided to build my own computer because why not? Yeah, uh, I don't get a lot of chance to game But I figured let me build a big honking gaming pc and then I connected, you know the pain I've connected every usb device imaginable, right like a bunch of stream decks and uh video capture and everything else Um, and it is nowhere near finely tuned as it needs to be so I get usb congestion every once in a while I get random, uh, driver errors And you know the story of the shoemakers Kids go without shoes. Yep. I just I never have to it's not my daily. It's not my I have other PCs if I need stuff to happen So I don't worry about it too much But uh and restarting every day is easier than just diving in event logs and seeing what exactly is going on So it's my fault. It's not the pc Yeah Oh, we can blame windows or something like that. So there we go. Yeah, let's blame windows So when um may have noticed this right here in that video, they're not wrong I the truck we always drive the tesla and me and my wife both work from home So we literally don't leave the house And if we do we take the tesla or I like yesterday I went to work twice I walked there both times because I'm relatively close to my office. So yeah, you're right I I have like yeah, people are complained about gas prices. I'm like, I don't drive like I don't go anywhere The store the grocery store if I'm feeling ambitious, I actually will walk to the grocery store It's only two miles and that way I've left the house Wow Yeah in miami, you don't walk anywhere because you get that whole, you know, it's sun sunshine one minute raining the next minute It's it's non-stop all the time Yeah, um if uh, I seen someone ask what cameras they're anchors cameras But if you look I did a synology video very recently this year Synology surveillance station and advanced motion detection with amcrest cameras. I don't just talk about the cameras They plugging them in doesn't make them work The advanced motion detection requires It synology doesn't have an automated setup for this. We'll just say that you can't just say, hey There's the camera. Tell me when a human walks by You have to log into the camera and then you have to set the analogy up to receive the data it's not hard to do but it's It is documented in synologies rtfm, but people don't rtfm. So I made a video Never never never Yeah, so nonetheless I have a video not just describing the cameras But how to use them and which which models support and which ones don't because I actually I did what not everyone wants to do And I don't blame them. I mean I I bought a bunch of cameras and figured out which ones worked and which ones didn't And so that was because that's not a well documented thing I mean that that's the right way to do it in my opinion just buy everything and then figure it out as we go my My wife was laughing at me because you know now with the new car I was trying to find like The the most comfortable way to mount my cell phone, right? Whether it's like the cup holder with the stick or like the air vents or the suction cup and so I Literally bought all three and I fear my wife's laughing at me. I'm like, I'll test it out and I'll return It's amazon I'll return whatever we don't use. It's not a big deal Exactly. That's it's as simple as that. So tom's tom's garden gnome is a truck pretty much that is uh Yeah, I I did drive it the other day. I mean my son wanted to go somewhere It was just pouring rain the brakes made that grinding noise because of all the rust I just drive this a little more often So Yeah, it's just Nature, you know when you work from home and then your office is closed and then the grocery store is also close And uh, I don't know. Oh, I know I know the pain. I I mean That's why I wasn't too too mad at buying a truck with low mileage or low mile per gallon because I drive maybe 15 miles a week on a busy week. So But then the disney trips make up for it. So Yeah, every night. Yeah, then when you go actually go somewhere. So how far are you from disney? Uh, about three and a half hours. So we go fairly often Yeah, and then we're doing a trip to New Orleans in May in the beginning of May. So we're gonna drive up there Oh, cool. And uh, I'm going there too. I don't know when I don't think it's May Things june, whatever my wife says we're going. It's in the calendar That that's exactly instead of me doing one of my conferences She has one for compliance. So I'm like, oh, let's I haven't been in New Orleans in 15 20 years. I'm like, let's drive up. Let's go, you know, it's a cool place to be Yeah, there's good food there. That's that's on my list of why I want to go somewhere. Anywhere is what's the food? Oh, yeah Do you check out like new hot sauces like when you go like I do that for bourbon, right? Like if I go visit a new city I'll go to the liquor stores and find like what's local to them So like do you do that for hot sauces too? Yes hot sauces and my other fascination is potato chips So if I travel I we see if they have a potato chip I haven't had So how cool I I'm a potato chip connoisseur. I eat way more than I should or one of my big bag of potato chips I'm just like But I and we have a better made here. So I went to Detroit and actually got I go to the better made place and get them fresh from the better made factory That's pretty awesome. They're slightly better They're better made Yeah, they're better. Yeah, they're they're really good My friends who used to live here that have moved on sometimes it's a care package They want is they want because they can't they're not very big outside of this region So they will pick up a few extra bags for the take back home to wherever they live now Oh, let's see. Oh, I've heard of that brand. Oh, okay. I'm better made.com. That's pretty cool The rs 1221 can take a 10 gig card that could work. Yes Sonology did a weird thing and kind of a dumb thing when I reviewed this It's a rack mount high end eight It's one of their first amd models was this one that I have the rs to do one And then sonology said, you know what? We're not going to put a 10 gig card in this and we're like, okay You're going to build a I think it's an eight bay rack mount high powered Yeah, but you're going to skip on that But they left the slot for you to put it in a Slot and they have no onboard mvme So sonology I was confused when I did this later They released a product to actually make a combo card that's 10 gig and has an mvme drive on it for caching So you have a combo card you put in so you can add the two features they neglected to build into the motherboard kind of a weird So you can do redundant power, but you can't do redundant 10 gig ethernet if you choose to go that path. Yeah, that's what's weird. I mean you they they didn't build us Because I'm looking at the page it talks about high availability high reliability, but You know you build this stuff out. You mean you need two of everything and that includes ethernet if you're doing 10 gig Yeah, it's just a weird design choice. Let me throw it up there. Oh, man products And the nix or one gig not two and a half gig Yep, not two and a half gig either. So just weird design choices Yeah Yeah, this and this is the one I have Here's a nice. Oh, this is a 36 21. Um, I wanted I clicked on the wrong one Let me figure out which one is it I have the two two one. Where's that one at? Is it gone already? Is it a discontinued model? There you go. That's the one I have But I mean look at that. It's a nice box. It's rack mounted. It's yeah You can you know hot swap power supplies with four one gig nicks really? Four one gig nicks. It's a shame. Yeah, you know, I look at the design because it's so shallow It would have been nice if they would have put the dry bays on top Like I've seen um super micro do that so that you could use You know, you could stack them on the same rail maybe put two or three on the same rail if there were top load Yes, I've always thought that was cool too when I like that. Um, the one advantage of being short throw is, uh, those rat those, uh smaller Racks that we put in. Um, it's actually will fit in some of those some of those ones that are It's just for network switches like your mdf switch in a closet You can actually provide there's no ventilation because these things run hot We can load them up like I do. I think just a blow dryer on the back And just with everything I have running on it I've been caught so many times using the little short boxes and then realize like I'll get a deep uh a deep switch Or ups that doesn't fit in It's like I I learned to measure afterward. Uh, this is why you do the cabling stuff and I don't do that anymore. So yeah So I see um Who was it somebody in the chat was saying that you can do dual 10 gig if you don't do the nvme Yes, you can get a card that has two 10 gig ports on it Yeah, but you know, you kind of want an nvme Controller speed. Yeah, exactly. I know it's not the same weird set of compromises And there's no internal at all for ssd or nvme at all. No, and that's what's weird. Why why it it was and I You know, I even told them when I reviewed the product and things like that They sent it to me early um for the review and then I flat out as soon as I seen the specs I'm like, this is cool. Wait, why is it missing these things? That was the next thing Like take back to that because you guys You're not going to need a drive slot just for caching. I mean, yeah Yeah, especially, um, I mean granted you can put ssds in there, but everyone wants the nvme cache I mean, especially right, I don't know we've sold some of these though is um You know, obviously one gig is fine when you're just doing a bunch of cameras But it's got a lot of power to just run cameras. So Kind of a weird design choice um Let me pull up the other thing the So this is what we use I really do like you're saying love the top loading And that's how these 45 drive servers are they're all top load That is so cool. I love that We've built these uh excel 60s. So I love we built one of these for a client. It is so cool It's got 60 drives in it. So 60 bays Yeah, so that's uh I don't even know what to do with that Like I I know cat implementations and I've worked with video production companies before and they have these massive arrays of storage it's just I look that that would just be full of like scrubs episodes with the original music or something like I don't even know what to do with that Yeah, it's it can be a challenge. We still haven't filled ours up. Um we have This is my churn ass system This is we just built this one earlier this year. We still have 245 terabytes to throw stuff in so A few terabytes free We're only 16 terabytes in of data right now I said you're pretty good on space for now. Yeah, look at it. Um creating videos This is actually where my video archives go along with all of other stuff and we're building a big new lab For things. So we keep so many we're keeping more and more iterations because we have so much storage of all of our labs So we can spin things up on the fly like really quickly for demo purposes Yeah, that's that's pretty cool You got um, you got somebody here saying they have Pringles in their office. They have Pringles collections John from all around the world. That's pretty awesome. That is cool I didn't see that Oh, let's see Oh someone else said to PCI limitation to cpu choice. Uh, yeah, that's a that's a fun challenge I'm going to work on a video on is PCI lanes. Um They I have one of those cards that let me pull it up real quick So people know there are definite limitations and I learned them me And and going back to the the PC issue of why it reboots so often or I need to reboot so often I'm wondering if it's not that it's just a PCI lane between the 3080 and the Aver, you know, uh triple video card And all the usb ports. I'm wondering if I'm just exhausting my PCI lanes on my motherboard Yeah, you can also Controllers as well. Um, you have to oh, yeah one thing that ever media recommends with some of their input cards Is that you figure out look at the diagram of the motherboard? Figure out which usb ports go to which controller and some boards have dual usb controllers So you want to put them on separate controllers because there's a bunch of limitations based on that. Oh, yeah and uh So we did this in one of our Dell servers and this was setting up a bifurcation So you can have four mvmes on each card. Uh, we wanted to update our lab server to have a Um, we're doing raid zero on these because why not? It's a lab. So You take four one terabyte. Um drives you raid zero and you get nice four terabyte solid storage for your storage server with Less than it's actually negative four on you're not worried about a dry failing You got four times your probabilities now of losing everything, but that's what makes labs fun, right? Make sure you get them back Exactly. Um, see how fast you can go Yep, and there's a challenge with the way Dell handles bifurcation. We're able to get it to recognize all of them But we couldn't get the peak, uh Rates out of them. So that turned into exploration of and I didn't know this just how your network will negotiate a speed for PCI Uh or for network interfaces your PCI interface has a max potential and a negotiated Agreement and it can be driven by noise or data lanes based on which processor you have and it will negotiate down to lower speeds so we couldn't get the full speeds out of these mvme and There's like You can't manually assign the speeds like you can with the network. Wow. Yeah, it's really interesting. Um, so there's Yeah, there's a lot too. Um Going all that so it's definitely it's one of those deep dives into things PCI express lane limitations are super lame. Great question Um, we also learned with some of the emd processors sometimes the board has all the lanes enabled There's not enough lanes to the chip. So in certain model motherboards It really will depend on a combination of the motherboard and The processor having all the lanes and all the pins and where they're connected to so It's crazy to me that something with four nbme drives is only going to take you you only have a by eight instead of a by 16 Yeah, like, you know, they they can pack that much in there. That that is pretty awesome. Yeah, it's uh It's really neat how all that works at least it's fun. And this is some of the stuff that me and my staff are playing with um, actually here's the Picture of it inside the dell I gotta pull it back. I was just not working the way I wanted. We have a whole another motherboard set up We're setting it up in there. So Yeah, the and actually now that i'm looking at it I wonder who did that crimp because it's not the best crimp, but I guess it's good enough the jacket's in there Probably I did if it's not I do not crimp. Well, there's a reason I hire people That that happens in the office all the time. I bet if I would have had my pc built by one of my techs It would have been fine But like, you know, but you know how it is you spend so much time doing other stuff You kind of get out of the game of like I I used to when I first started Oh, this goes back way too long But like when I bring on interns and we bring on new staff We'd sit there and we'd lay out 20, you know pieces of uh cat 5 or whatever we had And we'd start timing each other like who could crimp 10 cables the fastest, right? Uh and all and then we'd break out the uh the tester or the uh The qualifier and make sure it was all the spec And I I kept my record. I kept the top spot through like 2015 Now I don't dare do it against my techs because They're not going to watch. I hope they don't watch this watch somebody's going to call me on Monday They're like, oh, I saw the live stream and uh, yeah, let's let's challenge right now. I guarantee I'll lose so Yeah, I am I've gotten I never got wonderful at crimping stuff I got I was better at it than I am now. I'm extremely out of practice out of it. Um You know, I always I remind people when I do these videos and things like that And it's also I feel guilty when I show up at a job site So I always bring food and things like that because they know I'm there to wander around with a camera in my face I'm not actually gonna Let them do the work you're just I mean, but that's nice. So you bring the food at least I mean that's cool I still try to be you know that way I'm doing stuff and uh, always ask them if there's any roadblocks Is there something I can do or someone I can talk to to make their job easier? um, you know Just kind of general good stuff to do on site because a lot of people don't realize In so much of what we do is offices with new construction. That's a big part of our uh project work So it's there's always a roadblock. There's a foreman who's aggravating here. There's There's the discovery the people made. I don't know why I didn't think about this the keys to the lifts It turns out if Both companies use the same lift rental company with the same brand lifts Don't even waste your time taking the keys out. They're all damn universal When someone you're like, how do our lifts get over there? We have the keys No, they're the same lifts. They they borrowed the electricians took our lifts one day That's awesome But like what you say is absolutely right like I used to do this uh back in my MSP days I always took somebody with me Um when there was like a major thing going on or major projects I would go they would do the work and then I'd be the buffer for them Right because you'd have that office manager the practice manager the you know Whoever your point of contact is and they'd want to hover or they'd have questions and You know the work needed to get done So I would act as that buffer so they could do their stuff and then the client felt that they weren't being ignored They got to talk and ask their questions, but the person doing the job was actually able to do what they were meant to do Um not enough can be said for that. I mean if you have the resources to do it if you're an IT shop You know what's I'm saying absolutely right? Please go do that Absolutely. Um, this is uh what I mentioned earlier. The I think it is the am4 is the one This is where I I always will I won't say it in a live stream with confidence I when I'm reading on my videos there are like notes, so I'm saying the right model numbers But this is what my employees pointed out that um one of the things I thought was interesting We have one of our amd boards that has two mb me slots on there But you can't use both of them if you set up the pcie lanes differently The settings and the bios will determine matter of fact some of them will even disable sata ports when you Turn on that second mb me. So you can't go. Oh cool. I got four sata ports and two mb me's You might not Oh, you know Says that I think that may be what I'm running against. I have some uh some state of uh SSDs and I have my two mb me's on my motherboard And I'm wondering if that's what I'm coming across right now because they don't all work And it's one of those things. They're just extra drives I'm your tour guide ray I'll walk around with the clipboard and you know start pointing out and we'll do like picture photo opportunities But yeah, I wonder if that's like that's what's going on. Um, that's this is um This is I I'm one of my uh Few years ago my son was watching one of the youtube gamers And uh, he had a video where he was talking about the heat he took for not building it himself in the computer And he's like look this stuff's complicated And I don't really have time to dive into What this is I'm here to play games. I have content producers really honest from a business standpoint Is um, I I have staff I have one staff member right now that is deeply fascinated with hardware way way more than me So that is his task because he enjoys that task. He enjoys telling me what PCI lanes work I just pair a lot of what you say it all the time. Yeah. No, and that's that's what I'm running I'm running a rise in nine. It's absolutely am for platform. Um, I'm building like like you just did it You're in your basement, which is phenomenal. I love it. I'm jealous. Um, but I'm doing the same thing in my office I'm building out another studio at my real office not my home office Um, you know, and so the PC that's going to be there. I'm just going to buy one. I'll buy one pre-built because I just did not run across the same issues again. I did this this was fun It's beautiful. It's rgb'd out like, you know, every 12 year old pc wants You know, every 12 year old wants to have their pc. I have rgb everything, but The next one i'll probably just buy from origin or from whoever, you know, whatever's the best deal at the time Yeah, and um, even like uh, do you have a micro center in florida? No, I wish we did we don't we don't have fries. We don't have micro center. Well, I don't fries close, but Yeah, nobody has fries to me either of them That was one of my favorite parts I went to california with my wife, uh, because she's from there and we went to la five six years ago And we did all the stuff we did the in and out and we did the hollywood sign We were in la and we did a bunch of other stuff But my favorite thing was she went to go do a bridesmaid thing. She was her best friend was getting married Um, and I went over to a fries like I spent like five hours at a fries It was my it was like disney world for me. It was the most coolest thing ever Yeah, it's it's I we make the pilgrimage. It's all of about 45 minute drive from here That is one of the places I do go It's I spend way too much time there My wife knows then she she's like where you going and she usually wants to go wherever I'm going just because it's like time to leave the house, but um The uh Trip there is always like do you want to go and she's like you won't leave if we go there You're just gonna look at everything and probably buy nothing. I'm like, well, I never know what I want I just want to go look at everything That's all I feel I'm doing some projects at the house and I'm telling michelle like, you know, I need to get some stuff at home Depot and um, she's like, well, why don't you just order so you can do curbs? I pick up like because I want to go walk around home depot I want to go look at stuff like that's that's half the fun of going Yeah, I want to touch all the keyboards Yes, exactly. I mean, there's only so many screwdrivers or so many like ryobi one plus tools you can get But you never know I want to go check And I got a fancy new keyboard. So i'm excited. It's the rocat. I got the model I love this keyboard though. It's probably got a model number not somewhere. You know, I like it's got a volume knob Yeah Really nice mechanical and I can do all the fancy colors with it See I and here's the just so we were watching videos last night and uh My son He got in trouble. So he's not allowed to watch tv So we were talking about the msp dispatch episodes because she brought up elon musk Getting put on the board of twitter and buying the 9.2 stock or whatever And so she's like she didn't know about it. She brought it up. I'm like, we just talked about this on friday So we decided to start watching and you know, gio's like, I can't watch tv and we're like, it's the news It doesn't it doesn't count. So we put it on and then she's looking at my camera She's like, didn't you do one of these with tom and we put on the video you and I did On the octa stuff and she goes His camera's so much nicer than yours And i'm like all you're telling me is I just need to go buy all the twiz tom has So I want to thank you for justifying and now with the keyboard i'll buy that too and I'm just going to use your episodes as justification for everything. Yeah, this rocat keyboard though So as much as I like it and I love that I can do full rgb programming colors and buttons and things like that And I don't usually there's not people doing keyboard reviews I don't need to contribute to that noise because i'm I like it I don't have much else to say I like it. My fingers feel good on it because the way the keys feel But um, it does have a feature that really made me laugh from a security standpoint and that is the fact that the um When you they have this cool feature so you can touch a key and it spiders out from that key all the different rgb colors So from a hacker movie Like if I wanted to do some b-roll to look like i'm really hacking, you know You gotta add that hollywood special effects But I also bought from a security standpoint. I said this is terrible You you can not you can soda surf me and watch the keys because every key I type it echoes out the colors like a splash And each one I'm like, why you know everything I'm typing How's the software because like I have a I have a corsair k 57 and the corsair software for management rgb is Absolutely horrible. I I can't stand it. I wish it had more features. Um, you can set some profiles You can set some custom colors. It's pretty basic, but it gets a job done and uh, it's been validated by huntress. So We I have huntress on my gaming computer that this is also attached to and uh, I I noticed when I looked the files they analyzed So and they don't analyze them if they don't know what they are so apparently before Uh, me having this they hadn't had anyone who had both huntress and a roket keyboard software That's awesome Those are good guys over there. Yeah, what was the um, it was a gaming company. What was it that you plugged in? Uh The usb or the mouse or something like that and you could use it. It was razor. Yeah that you could use it to control that Yeah That was nuts. Um, microsoft bavaria Isn't it a security topic here? Oh, we got what people from all over the place Yeah mega high from bavaria a part of germany Ah nice nice um So one of the weird things that uh, not everyone realized but it came out pretty fast So you probably remember the nvidia hack and then things getting signed with nvidia drivers You're like, oh certificate revocation should take care of signing with nvidia drivers But then the details came out and it turns out they had an expired nvidia driver So you don't even need certificate revocation But then the hacking reports came out where they installed using fake signed nvidia and now your head scratching going Wait a minute. How does certificates work in windows? Well, Steve Gibson did a deep dive into this turns out microsoft doesn't care about the dates on certificates It's irrelevant to them. How ridiculous is that? I saw that and it was you know talking about yeah I mean so crime chrome enforces certificate revocation Because he uses its own store or who was it firefox uses its own store It's what I know one of them uses their own and but it was like But windows is aware of the revocation. They're they're aware it exists. They know they just don't do anything about it It's not enforced. It's like mfa. If it's not enforced. It doesn't count, you know Yeah, it blows my mind that uh microsoft does not have that for their driver So their driver signing there's been so many problems around their driver signing To allow back doors into systems. It's mind-blowing They just and the reason for not doing it of course is compatibility and I kind of get it Let's say I have some five-year-old device and that device isn't supported But I have drivers for it and there are drivers for windows 10 for it now What do I do if no one will sign the new version because the company doesn't offer new support But I have the old drivers and they work to get this device working Do I abandon support for all those people and my answer really is put a checkbox on there that you have an unsupported device Check the box install it Because that way the enterprise environment where that's less likely to be a problem Because we have more cookie cutter standard installs We're not usually in the enterprise world attaching a bunch of rando stuff there and the ones that are those are Separate computers in some other area for some niche thing You know, we have a bunch of computers that we've locked down for a client because they don't want to replace their $200,000 cnc machines because it only works with windows 7. It doesn't like windows 10 I could tell them to upgrade but that also requires upgrade a cnc machine. They're like, yeah That's 200 grand for each one of our seven machines No, they work and produce parts and make us money So we're not replacing them because the company that wrote the software is hot garbage and says we don't support windows 10 Even though they still are in business their answer is keep running windows 7 But even though the cnc, I mean we had that with automotive, right? Like you have a ton of automotive Like we'd have that with automotive where um The machine the company sometimes would just be gone. The companies are 20 years old They they wouldn't exist anymore But that's a machine that you know that auto shop or that body shop needed daily to They'd be shut down without it and you know, it'd be 50 grand 100 grand to replace it And they just couldn't they couldn't they couldn't support it. So it's like it's a catch 22, right? You can airgap it you can You know, I've seen tons of times where like somebody or virtualize it and then you know start running it off Or dos box or running whatever, you know doing their thing Um, but it's like to know that a business If that's that single point of failure that it could all like just crumble if that one thing goes down You know, it's uh crazy. But then you have the opposite end, right? You have like, um What was it wise security now last week wise was uh, you know older models that were refusing to update Uh security patches for so it's like, what do you do? Like what's the catch 22? Oh, that is so cool But like it's it's the catch 22, right? Do you Require company to update old equipment knowing that it's out there with security patches Or do you just say this is end of life and it has to be replaced every five years 10 years or whatever? Yeah, and it's a valid question. It's a it's a challenge on there I mean this client this is actually one of our clients actively right now They still run this and I was there doing a check disk. That's what the screen is I'm zoomed in on and I took a picture. I make sure I You know redacted the company name in there, but I'm gonna say they're big enough You may or may not have some of the products in your house They're distributed to places like, you know lows and home depot They manufacture stuff that goes into large stores And is sold there and they're like, why would we replace them? They have rows of these things. They're not one this is a big factory in Detroit and It's interesting to see but they still don't know us to warp we clone drives for them to keep them going Because they're like ain't broke. Don't fix it. And in case you're wondering about the security implementations of that It's security through antiquity. It's so old None of the new privilege escalation methods can can breach it because you just can't use it You know, and uh, who was it alexander? I know dan l talking about, uh, the number of Customers that have web portals that need uh, ie to run is ridiculous and I agree I mean, and that's that's the same thing when I used to work at the police department. It was the same thing we had stuff for, uh For fdle and fcse and cse where we had to use, you know terminals or we had to use ie 10 or ie 9 to access stuff, um Which is mind-boggling to me. But yeah, what are you gonna do? Yeah, it's just like that and uh, I I've been at Travis. I said one of our clients in his place They're they have a big hfax system and uh, but yeah, it's these are real problems that uh, he has to really antiquated Um, what now what's really where that gets even more in depth is I learned all kinds of stuff about um picture Like 15 story office building type of hfax systems Those things are garbagely insecure. We've helped set up and we've been we have a client that's got a numerous buildings around Detroit, so we've been fixing and and segmenting networks. Um, well the other interesting thing is the reason there's so much control over them They have to uh, there's a law Osha says you have I think it's OSHA. I don't know who enforces it You have to recycle so much air because think about those office buildings the windows sound open so there's an air recirculation and uh during The pandemic they had to because no one's in the office. They're like well We can save money by not recirculating air because the the recirculation of air Varies based on number of people in building so to get more This system is being set up with people counters to determine how many people are in buildings So they can decide how much fresh air they bring in because with fresh air especially here in michigan It's either really cold or really hot out so Fresh air has an expense of conditioning it to be the office temperature. So this becomes a complicated machine Um, that has to be constantly monitored tuned and tied to things like people counters door counters and everything else So it is to think the hvex system is just a simple way. It just keeps it, you know a nice comfortable temperature It's insanely complex as we've gotten into this like the amount of network engineering and engineering in general that goes into this is wild And it's the whole world. I didn't know That is awesome. The uh, what was it my me uh international airport does that? They have a sensor set up so based on the number of people they have sensors set up at bathrooms Um at the doorways not inside the bathrooms, but at the doorways So they monitor for people the number of people to go in and out of the bathrooms and based on that They know how often they need to refill supplies Um, it is super cool and it's just like yes, you know because it's cheaper to do that than it is to send people staff I mean, it might be an international airport. It's several miles of walking all over it Um, then sending staff regularly to check supplies over and over again. Um, so they were able to reduce costs Yeah, pretty awesome. Uh Travis says myosha Has their version of that. Okay. They're the ones that enforce it. He would know because he's got to I'll tell you offline. He does some cool stuff. Um, they I've been to his facility so Understanding all that is uh, there's a lot just it's one of those things it's those you think that's a simple technology And then you're like, oh, there's a lot too that whole to making everything that works for that Um, it becomes very interesting. We had we had a interesting uh coffee company We didn't do the work my friend did the programming work for them and we just were discussing it Um, they were building a series of and this is just a chain of coffee stores But they're local But they also sell a lot of their coffee and they're really, you know that craft imported We roast your own stuff type of place But the thing they needed to do was they built a series of hoppers that had weight on every one of them That would determine the run rate So instead of trying to figure out how much left because that's actually harder to determine because it's very manual with employees Of how many bags are sold and things like that. What if someone spills a bag? They would always just measure all the beans in the weight And that's how they would constantly know when they were stopped What rates they were burned going through coffee at and what rate they were selling at and when they needed to replenish When the bag got certain levels these are like 200 pound hoppers. They were pulling out of in the back Area to go to the front for packaging He's really slick system when it was all done because then you had dashboards to say all right How many pounds do we have of every coffee at any given moment? No one has to measure it anymore No one has to monitor it. It's monitored from the source and then the back end people make decisions based on that and predictions So it's kind of kind of cool stuff to get into that So on the micro scale of that there's a coffee sir I I use I have a coffee service that delivers beans at the house monthly, but Because you know everything is a service today, right? But there's a coffee service somebody in the uk told me about that actually Has it's an internet connected scale and when you put your coffee bags on the scale based on the weight it knows when it needs to reorder and I like the idea of a service that just seems like the most complicated way to accomplish that Like I could you know, there's so many other ways I I think that's just like a solution in need of a problem kind of thing Yeah, but um at a giant scale. I think that's pretty awesome Yeah, it's kind of it kind of neat giant scale for each one of them. Um, here's an odd cushion I wanted to address this though. I was too got a bad rap like bos. Did you ever use bos, right? Do you ever hear of it? No, I used os too. I never I never used bos So bos was I sure remember the people behind it. They made an they were basically making an uh open I think it was open source Um on mac like operating system before mac was what it was and this is like 90s stuff It was all object So instead of having even command line everything was drag and drop object that you even like when you wanted a little Drivers you would copy the driver files as objects and drag them around everything had this cool icon interface So it was really advanced for the time. Um, and brilliant people were behind it They just couldn't beat microsoft at it. So it was like a competitor in some ways to linux But it had this weird niche because it didn't run linux binaries either it ran bos and its operating system So it was adoption like I mean was it enthusiast like me Okay, fair enough I was like it's so excited someone recognized bos, but that's it. That's where it's I think tom like It wasn't before tom could run around on youtube telling you how exciting it was I was just informed so there was at least two people at minimum. There was at least two people Yeah, there's this guy in tom who liked it Yeah, that's always good, uh Oh, this is um, I think you talked about this and me and my friends talked about this. Did you did you see um Which is named quinn something he did uh write up on this as well I referenced this because I think he he covered some of the topics on there too It's it's a topic that's really interesting. Um, because I don't think it puts ubiquity in a good light. I You feel the same way essentially right right. It's kind of like ego. Yeah, absolutely I mean and that's that's kind of the thing right like we talked about it the the angle we talked about it on dispatch was that you know it was It was an employee with beef, right? It wasn't it wasn't krebs has a ridiculously Like he is meticulous about the research. He does the background. He does You know making sure that he has he is widely respected by every single community And this is not a guy that just screams the sky is falling every time he puts something this guy is he knows his stuff and This was a pissed off employee at a ubiquity that went out and started spreading false things and I can't fault krebs for it You know, he was duped as much as as unify was right or as everybody else was Um, I think they're trying to save face, but I think it's going to do more damage publicly than anything else I mean, you know, we went from sympathetic like oh, he had an inside threat That's a hard thing to protect against that sucks And now you're like wait you're going for krebs And krebs is an awkward position because you know, he called the person adam We can defer that adam was or inferred at adam was rick Uh, but or nick I mean, but it's one of those weird things that he doesn't want to violate any journalistic integrity so of course, he doesn't want to say who his source was and But krebs if he did validate someone on the inside, he did his due diligence and confirmed the person worked for unify So I I don't put him at fault for this. Um It's a it's a silly thing But one of the things that's going to come out of it I think is what are the controls that they were missing inside They're going to bring that to the surface because we went from feeling bad to one But uh the fact that anyone has access the person who has access to change settings in ab us should not have access And this can be set up uh to do any log changes So the log system should have some immutable place it goes to For security reasons that no one can touch and When he did the log trigger that should have triggered something they also should have had some triggers when um, You know the vpns the public privacy vpns surf shark being a popular one Those are on a list somewhere. I have a list of those You should trigger on why did one of my employees log in with a privacy vpn? That's an unusual login What they they usually don't log in what because they're working from home But why would they privacy vpn in that should at least trigger an audit? Oh Lost audio ray Always always muted at least once for live stream But your your your org's going to have their own authentication methods their own vpn methods, right? Whether using tail scale or whatever else that they're going to have their own methods for off-site access So to sit there and say there there's always something and that's that you're you're exactly right This is the thing that they're going to come back and they're you know It's going to have a harsh or light looking at a unit a ubiquity and saying What could have been done here? um, I wonder if they would have I I was thinking about this this week after doing the story I wonder if they would have gone after the times or the post or the journal if they had done this um And they did they all reported on it, right? And I think they would have I I think they would have Because that's pretty standard fair going after a newspaper if they call it, you know libelous or whatever it is um It's just it feels weird for them to go after a security researcher. You know what I mean It's going to be harsh on them because uh Right here discovery is almost always going to trip lots of things craig knows what questions to ask He's going to ask a lot They're going to bring in in the juxtaposition to be your security controls were inadequate and that's going to be the angle they're going to come at them with and It's the ubiquity. This is all going to become public records. So we're going to find out Oh, yeah, how good their security was or was not and that's That's going to do more damage in a lot of tech people's eyes if they weren't doing adequate security controls I don't see this ending well. Yeah No, and then and then the opposite side I sent you a link in private chat. It was um You know, you had fox that linked leaked 13 million records and that was just an open folder and open the internet Internet accessible folder. They didn't say it was s3. But you know, so but we've all heard about the s3 buckets with like bad permissions and or default permissions back in the day, but this was 13 million records of uh newscasters staff Famous people, you know, guests that have been on their employee IDs Stuff that's going to be used like the mail chimp breach Stuff that'll be used to fish right because that that's you know, that's the best use for this stuff. Um, or I mean this And I but and then fox doesn't get the same coverage, right? It was very hard to find This coverage on it on the other news sources But yet unify is is plaster all over the place and I wonder what's the difference right fox is much bigger So what's the yeah Why you know, I think I think unified because us tech YouTubers have talked so much about it. It's a popular product. It's got a 10 billion dollar or 12 billion dollar. Well, actually since krebs at one time They were like 14 billion dollars now they're at like that, you know, because of krebs allegedly So Their market cap Yeah, I think that's uh, it's the same reason that um anything that happens in elan musk the the tech People take to the keyboards get their caps lock ready and hammer outwards just I think that's a big part of it. Um, so when other non technical companies get breached, it's less You know, I mean like of course they don't know what they're doing. Yeah, like this Oh, look a company that's not Tech by nature did something right that goofed up They're getting a pass even though. I mean fox. I mean they have to have some significant IT infrastructure But I think you're right. They're getting a pass because they're not a tech company Right at at its core. Um, I remember the sony breach a couple years ago, right the sony Where they they knew about what was going on, right? They they uh, what was it the um Their cto said, yeah, we we knew we had these these glaring holes But it was cheaper to pay the insurance if something happened that it was to protect against, you know, something happening um, so so it was a thought out risk and Of course they got popped I had a friend uh that worked for sisco at the time and uh, I wonder if he could share his war stories I'm sure he's wrapped up in legal Stuff but uh, I know over a beer We shared stories about just how bad that sony hack was because he was the one Um, un-messing it all up. He says he'd never seen someone set up stuff. So wrong He's like there there's best practices and there's what these people did was was worse practices like everywhere I looked it just one more thing set up wrong So just any any I like astro cats, uh comment it like dns. It's always s3 It's always s3 Uh You're not wrong uh You know, it's funny. We um Speaking of s3 buckets. They're the reason it's s3 buckets is because permissions is hard and the We were at we we held some will will infer what may have occurred here We will not say anything that violates anything that wasn't set in a public forum And I'll let everyone put pieces together if they want to spend some time googling But basically someone shows up and I know who this someone is personally and we had these hacking events that we did you know dc 313 def count 313 their local hacking groups here in detroit and They're if anyone's never heard in the best I this person did save themselves And I I contribute the people that are talking to this person to saving their uh career a little bit Even though the breach still happened The argument was given because after they did a presentation of what pen testing is and some differ reports and going through Scenarios and things like that. Uh, you know, we all just hang out with pizza and beer and discussion afterwards Someone come up and I know where they work and they said so uh hypothetically I've been uh trying to get better aws training. We kind of have buckets exposed We kind of have everyone with the same permissions with around 90 developers And I'm like and I just right away stopped so I know your work and I know you're going with this So, uh, what is the real question you're asking here? And he goes well, how do I cover myself? And so we went through the entire prudent man argument Which is a legal position you put yourself into Not only document that you said to do these things make these changes But also emailed it all in writing And if you were not trained on something getting training and writing getting all that stuff and writing And also taking those emails and printing them stapling them and having them in another meal server because the day It hits the fan You maybe find yourself blamed and locked out of your mail server with all the evidence that you tried to do something And about a year later, there was a news report What happened it was all of that. Yeah, they found some aws buckets completely not configured and linked a bunch of data And uh, there was an infamous breach by the big company And so nonetheless, it was fun because he did he actually did everything. Uh, we said it was fun talking to him He made his exit because he says he actually exited just before the breach But he was so realized even after you exit they're gonna point to the person left. Oh, yeah I did all my stuff. I documented everything you guys should have been doing. I put it all in writing I left I got a job offer and I ran and I had a folder that says in case you call What did they say when you uh, when you getting ready to leave an it job You have the three envelopes, right? One that one that blames the next guy when the blames the last guy and one that's uh, you're you're quitting or whatever it is Yeah Yeah, steven hit it on the head. I s3 is more than check boxes when permission policy is done Uh, you know, steve gibson calls a tyranny of the defaults and s3 Uh, I don't remember they changed it last year or when was it but it used to be just default open Everybody and their mother could just open, you know browse a directory, you know, uh, pull up the listing download any file I don't think you could post to the bucket by default, but you could definitely read from the bucket Um, and they changed those rules, uh, it I think it definitely less than 18 months ago Um, but they changed it. So now it's a little more secure not enough. You still need to go through and fine tune But you know people it's so easy to just click click click and you have an s3 bucket And then it's like 40 more clicks or scripting or a yaml config if you're doing it, right? Um to actually, you know secure it Um, that's the part that gets skipped. Yep. If crev's himself was duped, I think he'll re rethinking his own vetting method I don't think so Um, and that's because it's really hard if someone says they work somewhere you can easily vet that they work somewhere The the weirdness is When an inside actor Who's the one performing the bad actions also context journalists? That's a that's a rare case and also a great way to get caught and have more evidence against you So, um, I hopefully there's not that many more stupid people and I kind of have an anecdote I'll leave you with because this is I remember it as being one of the funniest but horrible things that had happened when I worked in Trucking is uh, we had a truck that wasn't I used to be it manager for a big transportation company We had a fleet of over like 600 trucks one of them wasn't moving and uh, we found out we we had you know Call driver. Hey, uh, you're supposed to do something. You're not doing like driving the truck And he's like well part of a police scene and we're like was there a rack we didn't hear about a rack He's like, uh, it was a shooting scene. We're like, oh, okay That's um, what does that mean exactly? You're like well the police are here and it got everything taped off until they clear the scene I my truck is in a parking lot where the shooting scene happened And then we just never heard from the guy for a long time like then we had to go get the truck And uh, we found out it had been towed and uh, turns out he was absolutely right There was a shooting scene. He was doing a shooting and just didn't tell us Leaving a minor detail so it was Minor detail it was like it was such a confusing thing because he had called us after this and I don't Know what it was. It was a type of some type of domestic dispute people didn't die He just shot someone in a domestic dispute, but somehow still They didn't I don't know the details and we couldn't find anything out there Like the police definitely thinks it's out of state and they're like, well your truck's here That's what we can tell you come get it I'm like, okay, but that was like We're like, is he gonna be like we're gonna have him for a while Don't expect him to make any deliveries is all we'll tell you He can't make bail and we can tell you that too So we we thought it was involved but like trying to figure it out turns out I mean he was accurate in what he said Yeah, I mean he didn't lie about it. He you know may have held a few things but No, but like Travis is right though. So and that's standard fair right like you talk to any journalist Finding out if the person giving you the information has any kind of Vendetta or any kind of gripes with who they're reporting You know leaking on um, that sounds weird who they're disclosing information on That's standard fair for journalists. They they absolutely do that and I'm positive now Will Krebs take this back and maybe think of ways he could prevent it in the future Maybe I mean we're all like that, right? We want to just strive for perfection But you know as far as like I I'm confident to say without knowing whatever his methods were I'm confident in saying If they got him that same information, I would have been got to yeah Like you know, I'm giving him the benefit of that. He's earned it up to this point Yeah, the good news inside um as as much as people who've never hired employees have this Big worry about trust of their staff Honestly though in the long-term business the more you realize and just the statistics are there to back it all up Statistically people just come in and do their jobs and don't want to even when they're angry at their employers They rarely want to go all the way to doing something that could land them I mean, hey, he's this guy's this dude's facing some prison time not a little bit either Like this is going to be a life changing event for him He probably especially think about the taint this leaves on his record in general Do you think he'll ever get hired at a tech company again? No Who's going to hire him period like with any any any amount of access So like sitting there and saying, okay I've dedicated my life to learning this and I built up my career and that's gone I mean you have the jail the prison time You have your loss of career going forward and all this because you have a gripe against your employer That like you said it is I was there. You're right. My first company is when I first hire employees It's like do I give them access to this and we do that to a good bit now? Even though we exercise zero trust and all the other things we still stagger depending on the employees Their maturity in our company, right? So as they We have our onboarding process and as they go through each phase of their onboarding process They're given access to different things during their onboarding process So they only have access to the things they need at that phase of the onboarding process So even with that and that's never bit us in the ass. It might at some point, but It's it's it's protected us and I want to say it's been unnecessary Because like you said employees want to come in and do their jobs, especially new employees But we just do this out of an extra layer of care And it's worked But you know at the end of the day the information leakage is more from Dumb, you know forgetting to set security permissions than it is from malicious employees At least in my experience. Yeah, it's just principles of least privilege. I mean, I've talked about Brett a lot Brett It's funny Brett runs the company Brett has signing authority on things and pays bills Brett has no access to our documentation because it's why would he need it? It's not necessary Even with our RMM tools We Brett has a read only account because only thing he needs to know if something's in there Maybe when he's talking to a client for and it's how he gets access to reports But that's it. He can see reports, but he can't make any changes at all So because he doesn't need to and it's not that I don't trust him Just there's not a need for him to have access to those aspects. So we don't grant it even though he is at a Executive level permission at my company in terms of what he actually functionally does he can make payroll changes You know, but that's a perfect example. Yeah, so payroll I'm the CEO of the company. My wife's CFO. We have other executive leadership team Most of the ELT doesn't have access I have access to network and infrastructure tools because I also serve on the technical side I oversee the technical teams, but even that there's certain things. I purposely don't have access to We have break class accounts, of course and multiple people But on the finance side, I don't have access to run payroll nor do I know how there's documentation on how to do it But I don't have access to the systems Everything we do if I were to need access to a payroll system We have a documented change management process for requesting access And I do it on purpose. I'm not going to run payroll. I'm never going to run payroll So why do we need access that I can have credentials that could possibly be compromised to go? You know do something bad. There's no need and it's weird, right from a small business owner It's weird to say I don't have access to something we own Um, yeah, there's something mentally that doesn't click with that But at the end of the day, it's not necessary. You know what I mean? It's it's better for the protection of everybody Yeah, it's just it's almost one of those things you have to like set egos aside sometimes as hard as that is to do And just say hey, that's this is how we're going to do this. Also. I'm going to mention We're going for about 10 more minutes. Um, so I told willy. I wouldn't cut too much Willie's starting his live stream soon. I told the audience I'd send them over to my friend Willie We try we have a big audience of overlap. So I was like go so watch Willie's live stream in about 10 minutes But I think he's starting a little bit after 10 And I'm actually get I'm actually going to do a couple real videos It's on my to-do list today is to sit down and finish a couple I'm like have so many things started right now, you know the the typical entrepreneur thing I started five projects. I should probably put one of them out Oh, you don't want to see my right list my uh, we use right for project management All the blogs I want to write all the videos I want to make like all like all the content pieces besides all the other business stuff Like I have a private list and right just for that and that list. I think it's 300 or 400 items now at this point You know, it's it's ridiculous. It's uh Yeah, but you actually get stuff done. I my my stuff stays at like 40 at this point Which is why I just keep hiring people. I'm like, uh, they'll they'll do the work. So yeah, but uh, no, I'm uh Yeah, making more Inroads accomplishing more though. I've been trying to I realized this guy is the one that keeps starting more projects So I've been trying to focus on finishing and moving forward before I start the next one and things like that That's an important thing Um, but before we go, let's talk about where to find all race stuff At least so notice you got msp distraps You got the tech bar and all the other stuff. That's at the oit void channel. So Yep, definitely, uh, so raise channels So everywhere we're sending now, uh, let's see if I don't screw it up. Um We're sending everybody to youtube.com slash uh msp media network. Um, I'll send you the chat if you want a third of the Yeah, uh Um, so we're sitting there that way. It's I mean, yes, I run my void company But we're doing the media stuff separately. Um, and you know, just trying to get content for the it world out there Uh, Ray, do I do do I do music? Uh, yeah, I used to back in a previous life. I did DJing. I did, um Which I'm calling a lot of sound reinforcements studio engineering Uh public speaking That kind of fun stuff. You couldn't tell by Ray's voice and a nice Mikey's cat Yeah, but uh, yeah, um, but msp media and we're always looking for shows and new content and topics So follow us and you know, absolutely me me ray and you know There's a few others like I mentioned willy and learn linux tv. All of us are uh trying to put out there We're all coming from the perspective of real world experience and uh, you know, raise in that list because he's actively CEO of business Involved in other projects related to tech advisory roles and things like that So you're you're not someone who's just trying to become a content creator because I've seen a few people do that Like they exit the business and just want to create content I think the content comes best when you're in the business because people have asked me You know, is there a subscriber count which I I sell my company or leave it? I'm like no It's that's my my content is driven by what I'm doing in the company because if I become a full-time youtuber You you go and look at the content you create you sort by most views and most money made and you just keep making more of that And I tell you watch channels Nitched down into only popular content on their channel That gets the most people and the most views because that's what you sell to advertisers Because I'm not beholden to advertisers and I'm trying to get content out there in general It gives a better mix and of course I stay relevant because two years out of the business and tech You're like I remember the tools we used two years ago. Yeah, the company I remember when we we were crimping cap three and you're like what what yeah No, I I agree 100 it's the same reason I every once in a while I know I'm not supposed to but I do it because it's it's a nice release Everyone so I'll dive into some tech tickets. I don't need to be doing it But it's a way to keep touch with it. It's we run the business so I can talk about things that are relevant And I never want to have my employees I never want to manage employees that do things that I don't know how to do myself I don't need to be the expert. I don't need to be the best person at it I just need to not my concern is always I don't want to ask them something that I don't know That I'm talking out of my butt right like I don't want to ask them something that's impossible Just because I think it should be doable and it's not But keeping touch with that running the business You know talking with clients talking with partners every day keeps you in tune and the content really does come from there I can tell you first hand. I've talked with tom And we talked about content and he's like, yeah, but these get the views and these get you know the watch time and blah blah But it's never I'm going to make a video because of that it's I'm going to make a video because this is really cool stuff Yeah, it's you know and I appreciate crowd tech video. I knew wasn't going to be the most viewed video on my channel But I think crowd sex amazing and I'm working with them. I'll be a black hat there with them Like I'm really behind that as a project, but it's not for everyone. It's not not everyone even needs it This is not the tool that everyone needs to run. It's it's niche. Do you host servers? Do servers uh that you host run wordpress or apache or nginx or other services publicly exposed Well, those are that niche audience that should use crowd sec It's not a home user thing. It's not even really a home lab thing So I know it's not going to get the views once people understand what it is But it doesn't mean I don't think it's important and better to bolster security. So I'm excited about it as a product Definitely that that's how I found your videos how I found tail scale Actually, you told me about tail scale a little before you did the videos, but um That you know and you didn't invite me on today because we planned this I woke up and you know I was looking at in your the thing popped up and I'm like, oh, it's time. Let me watch see what's going on So, you know, I I know it's always appreciated. I I agree with you steven crowd sec will be a big thing Um, I think it's very very smart people doing very smart things Yeah, which is cool. Yeah, they're they're really smart. Um, I've already met with some of the executive team I for those you didn't know I and I made sure it was full disclosure I was already signed up for their partner committee before they announced and before I did the video So I already knew all that was coming because I got I I've been working on the back end Understanding some of their business model and things like that. So um a great tool that's Like once I seen what they're doing I'm like my my first thing is how did you guys the first one to make this happen? That was when I really dove into it. I'm like there's a simplicity in it is why it's so good Uh, it's so easy to use and so I mean granted There's a lot of engineering that made it easy to deploy But the concept is relatively easy for how they're doing it So just but those are the best tools, right? The the ones that you know that that focus on the need and then make it easy to use it because if it's not easy to use You're limiting your potential audience. I think you have a new um A new niche if you wanted to start a new thing brian's talking about you doing asmr Astor cat says you can do installing ram crimping cables like rj45 There's got to be an audience for that. I'm positive there is I but I'm not there. That's not my thing I'm driven nuts. I I have to yeah, I'm not big on any to asmr stuff that actually purposely annoys me It's it's annoying. Yeah, uh, steve jobs that I know of never did them And I don't know that it's true, but there is that old thing that um bill gates did that a couple times I don't know how true that is I I've seen the same Things floating around the internet uh that he would use customer service calls every once in a while or he would sit on On desks every once in a while steve jobs. I can't imagine he would be the best cs rep So I think what's what was it one of see but someone that wrote a book about uh Steve jobs and I one of the funniest things they interviewed a lot of people that interact with him And they had an ex-girlfriend in there granted take a great assault ex-girlfriend. Um, but they said yeah, he may have been a Enlightened buddhist, but he was still an asshole. I love that quote. Yeah, but I love that like steve jobs Like there's a lot I I'd like to follow these people and and learn from like steve jobs Uh was notorious for if you didn't have a purpose in the meeting. He wanted you the hell out of the room Um, and we we practice that internally now Um, he did a lot of other stuff. We didn't follow but or we don't follow I would love to get a new car every 30 days. So I don't have to get a tag. That'd be freaking awesome. Yeah But you know, there's stuff to take away Yeah Exactly my idea is in between. I mean, it's you know, I'm us is the same way some easy eccentric He says some smart things. He says some really dumb things. Sometimes we just wish he'd shut up so You know, but uh, yeah, steve jobs was probably the uh the gordon ramsey of tech calling people donuts and Someone had said you didn't know his reactions made you unsure when you showed him something new Whether you're gonna get a hug or something thrown at you. Both of those are common reactions from steve There wasn't a lot of middle ground But one of the things I loved reading about I forgot which book it was talked about the steve jobs effect where He would walk in and you know, this is the you know, the the uh, the catch for a true leader He would walk in and he would talk to you about accomplishing these things that seemed impossible But he was so passionate. He was so Energized on it. He got you ramped in there. So when he left the room You were on board saying i'm gonna do this impossible thing. We're gonna get it done And then he leaves and you realize wait, how the hell are we gonna do that? But it was known as the steve jobs effect. I think it was awesome Yeah, I thought that was cool. I've heard that same thing talked about him It's it's interesting because he was just really like that. Um, It's funny because uh, I will I'll leave you guys with this some more humor I answered a customer service call today. I got a couple staff on vacation So I went and hung out the office for a little while. That's why I walked there the other day And uh, I said the answer to the first call that came in I regretted that. Um, this is I don't even know how to describe some calls So they didn't want to open a ticket, of course They called and it says you should have had your ticket ready That's actually part of our voicemail prompt just have your ticket number ready But they didn't have a ticket for this reason We you know, we get computers set them up for clients and ship them to them because all of our clients are local We'll prep them and ship them first problem They had was the laptop the nice new Lenovo laptop that we set up and preloaded all their configuration on so they can just log into it They said we didn't do the job. I'm like, we didn't do it and I'm like, huh, we didn't set it up Yeah, I don't think it's been set up. Wait, you don't think it's been set up. Why well I cut the tape and it still says Lenovo on it and what my staff had done with the box was they Cut the Lenovo we always use razor blades where my staff takes care of taking anything out of boxes So they cut their Lenovo tape they then put clear tape over it. So it still look like the Lenovo tape So that's nice, you know the clear tape we use whatever and uh because of that when they cut it They thought they were cutting the Lenovo tape then when they unboxed it It still looked like brand new and I'm like, yeah My staff take and put all the packaging back and wrap it back in the Lenovo thing And we're just if you watch a couple of them work. They're just meticulous people who clean things So it was took together too well But she didn't turn it on because she was mad that it was so well kept There's no way we actually did the things we said and she wanted to really talk to the technician and I'm like Well, he's not available right now. He's busy and he was actually standing over there because he's like, what is Say on speakerphone. I'm like, this is the weird argument and I'm like I don't want to turn on talk to the tech to make sure he did his work and I'm like But you can answer yourself right there. Just turn it on I don't want to do it I And I'm looking he goes don't pass it to me I'm just like, I love it. Turn it on if it's not the way that we said call back Okay, I will I will call back. Okay. I'm positive you will But there's value to that when we used to unbox phones in the office and prep them Like I would get on my staff like put them back in the little sleeves Like make sure like we don't need to use the the hands the handset cords Leave them in the box. We use our own like because there's a joy that comes with unpacking something and it's pristine state You know, it's like Christmas, right? And we all love to open those boxes and you know, everything's nice And if it's nice not nice packaging we complained about it a little bit So I I love that you take that kind of care. Um putting stuff together Yeah, and matter of fact, we don't even unbox your power supplies because a lot of times we have We we almost always are getting the same Lenovo laptops So we have a power supply sitting on the desk We take the minimal amount of the box because then we don't want to put it back or accidentally forget something, you know It's also a self preservation skill here at some point of no one wants to ship something and go You know, you forgot to put the power supply back in the box because that means you have to go through the process again so New policy place a note on the box that says yes, you did your job actually Um, we should put something in there put candy in the box There you go. Um, which we call we used to not chocolate though So we used to do uh, actually we do that now So we get our phone shipped from our distributor, but they have oit voice stickers on the phone that seals the box So they know it's still it's been prepped and everything's all brand new in brand new state But it has our sticker on it. So they know, you know, it came from us Yeah, that makes sense We maybe we'll have to revise that a little bit But I don't want to make rules for the exception because this is the first time anyone's heard a call like this And this person was emphatic about it And I'm like, I don't even I'm not even sure how to address this because they don't want to turn on your own computer And I'm like, I got nothing you're nicer than me. I'd be petty I would have called back and be like, so did it turn on? Was it everything? Yeah All right for that, I'm gonna wind it down I see my wife is messaging me going I would like breakfast now because it's I don't know breakfast time or something. It's 11. Yeah I got the same thing. So I'm an hour It's 10 o'clock here, but I need to do some breakfast too. So yep All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining. I showed you where to find ray head over to willy's thing He should be live now and uh, so you can keep live stream going all morning. It's like Saturday morning cartoons with youtubers It's not bad actually not a bad idea. So I'm gonna end it here. Thanks everyone for joining Thanks guys