 Hi, my name is Remkus Defrius and I'm here today talking about how Gutenberg will change the WordPress landscape. Just in case you want to see a digitized version of me, that's me. I manage partnerships at Yoast and I'm co-founder of Workamp Netherlands and Workamp Europe. The first thing I like to do is kind of get an idea of who I have in the room. Can I get a show of hands who mostly develops with WordPress? Who creates content? Okay, who builds themes? Okay. Oh, there's a few waiting. They don't know they're building themes or are you still doubting or? Okay, we'll talk afterwards. Who here has heard of Gutenberg? And I do not mean in like in the 1500s but like so nowadays Gutenberg, show of hands? Okay, cool. So what is Gutenberg? I'll do a very short description because most hands were being raised. Gutenberg is the new way to create content within WordPress. At least that is the goal. Gutenberg is a project and it's a plugin. It's a project developed as a plugin with the goal to replace the current editor. It's a little more than that because it's not just the editor. It's taking over the entire admin screen when you create a new post. I will show you later on what it actually looks like. But imagine that whenever you create a new post or a custom post type or anything that resembles content, there will come a new experience. If you want to learn more about the project and its totality, you can find more at this address, WordPress.org slash Gutenberg. And this is what I think is the most important thing about it. It is about new possibilities. And if you think about the times that WordPress changed a lot, there's only been a few times. I don't know. Does anybody remember when the first version of WordPress came out that supported pages? Anybody have a clue when that was? 2005. End of 2005, over to 2006. So that was a big change because even though for years WordPress had the people thought that it's good for blogs and that's about it. But actually since 2006, it's been doing more than that with adding pages. You can call it a light CMS. But at that time, I was still building Mambo and Joomla websites for clients. I didn't like it very much, but it was the best thing I could use. Until pages became a thing. I was like, hey, this is actually much better. And I switched all of my clients for free to WordPress from Mambo or Joomla, whatever version they were stuck on because that's what it was. So that was a big shift. But there was a small crowd. So didn't get a lot of notice. The next big thing that I think that happened is WordPress 3.0, which was in 2010. And it introduced custom post types. It introduced custom taxonomies. It merged WordPress MU into WordPress. So you could create multi-site installations with the same installation as standalone version. That was a big change. And it brought a lot of possibilities. It brought a lot of options. Because at that point on, you could start creating more flexible types of content basically. It's also the beginning of the rise of solutions that allowed you to use custom fields. I'm a big fan of CNB2, but I think a lot of people use ACF. And this all started to change how people started using WordPress. A couple of years in, people started calling it more and more, working towards an app platform. I don't necessarily agree with that nomenclature. But I do think that was a big change. Gutenberg. And there's been a few changes in WordPress that were also pretty big. REST API is a big one. But that's a very under the hood type of thing. Not very visible unless you actually use it. Gutenberg will be a change. I think it will be the first change that is very visible for everyone. And not just visible, it will change your default experience that you have with WordPress. So this is an example of what the Gutenberg editor looks like. This is an example of how we at Yoast look at how we can integrate with it. Who here uses Yoast SEO, by the way? So for the record, that's everybody. One of the things that, so our motto is SEO for everyone. And we do that by analyzing your content to the best of our ability. Because we're somewhat limited in what we can do. But here's the nice thing. When we saw Gutenberg begin to introduce as a project and then realizing that every single element of content, which what is an element? Element is a heading, element is a paragraph, an image, quote, video, whatever you can think of that you want to put in there, is an element, is called the block. And those blocks give us the opportunity to zoom in per block. So right now, if you're trying to optimize your content, you'll have an option to rewrite in order to get everything green. I know a lot of people are desperate to get everything in the right color. So content is perfect. But we are still measuring the whole blob of content. There's no difference between the first paragraph or the third paragraph. We can kind and measure it, but not really. Now Gutenberg, as an editor, uses a very different foundation. So I'll explain a little bit how it will work, actually creating content. But one of the big opportunities that it will give us as Yoast, but we're not the only ones that can see options here, is that we can actually look at a particular paragraph and be very specific what is good about that paragraph or what needs improvement. So here you see an example of where LEGO bricks is, hey, you've created a post before about LEGO. Why not link it? Why not connect it here? Because that's a great thing to do, right? Make sure that your content is just not standalone, but you link inwards to other pieces of content as well. So this is another example of, this is what it currently looks like. So as you can see, it's a very different experience. There's not a lot that looks the same from your current editor, other than there's a title and there's a piece of text. But the sidebar to the right is displaying different information. This particularly is the Yoast SEO meta box. But any and all meta boxes that you have will be on the right hand side. Instead of at the bottom. That doesn't mean that there won't be meta boxes at the bottom anymore. But the default location would be the right hand side. So that's quite a big difference to your normal editing experience. Out of curiosity, how many people have actually activated and installed the Gutenberg plugin? And who has actually created pages with it? So for the record that it was, there was a few hands, the first question, there were a couple of hands, the second. So Gutenberg as a plugin is still limited. I'm going to show you a little bit. I'm not going to do an actual demo demo, but just kind of switch to the browser and wonderful. So this is an example of what Gutenberg currently allows you to do. When you activate the Gutenberg plugin, it will sort of take over your, when you create posts, it will sort of take over the entire experience. And it will show you one demo, which is what we're looking at right now. So the demo, as you can see, I have a side bar, which has two different tabs. So on block level, I can do certain things. And on document level, I can do certain things. And this will probably look the most familiar because it's just re-style what we currently have. But the interesting becomes when you click on certain blocks. So it will now display what this is. So this is a cover image. And when you click on it, you will immediately see the options that you have. It will tell you. And you can even change. Like if I want to use a different image, I can. Without having to go through ad media, click on it, edit it, then select it. So a lot has been done to make that whole experience that we have in creating content is, it has been put into, let's make this easier. So this is a block. And as you can see, this is just a paragraph. And this paragraph has options. You can see them right here on top when I click on it. These are your default editor things that you, I'm sure you've used them before. Align left, center, bold, italics and stuff like that. But when I click here on the block, settings for this particular block. So it's a paragraph block. It'll tell you what it is. If you want to change things, it's exactly that. You just click on it and it will adjust to what you have set. If you'd like to use a drop cap, you can. You want to change the background color, you can. And per theme, you can actually assign those type of colors. So when you have a theme that has a certain color variation settings added to it, like the branding colors, and you would create a site for your client and your client has specific type of colors, you add them into the theme and they become available for you, for your client. So there's a whole bunch of things that you can do here. But what I find interesting is that there's also funny things like this. So with one click, I moved that paragraph that we were looking at. I've moved it down. I can move it back up again, just as easy. And here, for instance, this is a very simple text block that is right aligned. Now, if I prefer that on the left, it's just simple as that. But if, like, hey, wait, I kind of want it here. I want it centered. That's all you need to do. So especially when you look at content that's a little longer than, let's say, two or three paragraphs, it becomes a lot easier to play around with it. I don't know how, for those of you creating content, I don't know how you guys work, but when I have an idea of a blog post in my head, I start ramming down every single word that I come up with and sort of sort it out later. Like maybe that sentence needs to go up there. Maybe that paragraph should reformat it to this. So moving around those types of content is going to be a big change. Images, now images become, in my experience, a lot easier to integrate. So this is a very straightforward image that is set as a line center. It's full size, pretty straightforward. If we scroll down, here's another example. This is an image block, and from the moment you decide, wait, I'm kind of limiting myself here with just one image, I want to add two more. You can convert an image block to a gallery block. So that's one click. And then the next click is you adding those images that you want to have added. So the layout that you see is what Gutenberg does on its own. So you don't have to float left, float right. I advise you to not use floats at all anyway, but that's a different topic. But imagine the ease. This brings the clients that are not very savvy with having to do inline HTML just to make sure that two images align next to each other and one below that. So as you can imagine, this becomes a much more stable version of creating content. Media rich. So there's an interesting way and mind you, your theme needs to allow for this. So it's not just activating your theme, sorry, activating your plug-in, and then your theme works perfectly. There's a little bit more to it. But the options that the Gutenberg plug-in allows for your theme is to create what we call wide or full wide aligns with gallery. So you can create what you see here, which is the image bleeding left and right outside of the content. I'm sure if you've ever looked at a post that was on medium.com you've seen something similar. By just adding one CSS class you change a default image into a much nicer way of integrating an image. It gives you a lot more options. So this, for instance, is how a two-image gallery would look like. And as you can see, I cannot only select two images side by side. I can also say this gallery is going full width and therefore creating a nicer, a different type of layout of how I display two images next to each other. And mind you, everything that you see here is default Gutenberg. So any of those blocks that we currently have available inside the Gutenberg plug-in, any of those blocks, you can copy and paste that into a new block, change what you would like to change in that block, and you will have custom blocks on your own. You can be as creative as you can possibly be with that. If you say like, let's just say, for instance, you have a client who has a team page and a bunch of team members on there. Now what is the most used solution for that? Create a custom post type, add some meta boxes, make sure that the client just fills in what he needs to fill in and you take care of everything on the CSS end so it looks good the way you intended it. Right? We all know that solution. So with Gutenberg, we have a different option. We have an option where a team page where not everybody necessarily has to have a single page, a URL that says slash teams at Emkos de Fris, for instance. You don't need that, then you have an option to do it different. You can change that by creating a team member block. And in that block, you basically get whatever you see here when you go to the advanced settings that you see on the right here. You can change whatever you would like in that block to, oh there's no more options in this one, but as you can see with a paragraph, you have a few other options. Now all of these options you can create. So instead of just having an input field that adds an additional CSS class, you can make that input the name of the person or select the image or give him his Twitter ID or whatever you want to make of that. You can be as creative as you like. You don't necessarily need to do a custom post-op anymore just because there's no better way of, you know, housing that content. So all these options and possibilities make it a lot easier to create more interesting content. This is a very simple poll quote. A poll quote is nothing other than a quote nicer style, maybe left-aligned breaking out of the content or having a nicer type of style. You can have more variations in a thick line above, small line below, for instance. All of those things you could make as an option. So this is just the short demo. The only thing I'd like to show you is what happens if I want to create a block. So this is basically all your options that you have. So whatever you would like to add is available here. Now I know this one for instance a table is one of those things that you prefer not to have your clients work with, right? Who here has had to fix table layouts before? See way too many hands. So what if you have a block that just takes care of all of that? So all the client needs to do, or you, if you're the content created for yourself, is put stuff in the fields. That's it. Save and be done. Code, if you want to add code, if you want to add custom HTML. Columns, more tag, and here's a funny thing. Widgets. So if you want to, you can actually integrate widgets. Now if you're accustomed to using a page builder, who here is using a page builder? Okay, there's a fair amount of hands. So a page builder kind of does this already. And you'd be, you'd be right to say that Gutenberg kind of takes a little bit of the functionality that page builders offer and makes it whippers native. You'd also be right in to start wondering, is there a future for page builders? If this is the first iteration of what Gutenberg does, you know, three, four versions down the line, are we still going to need page builders? And I think we do. For starters, Gutenberg, in his current iteration, only allows you to style your content. That's it. No header, no footer, no widget areas in your footer, or sidebars and stuff like that. No fancy fancy stuff. But on the other hand, there's not a lot stopping you from integrating a Gutenberg solution inside the customizer combination and you kind of have your page builder already. So what this does allow is a lot of options, a lot of opportunities for those of you creating content. Because what we're getting here is competition. So there's a lot of page builders out there. I'm not a fan of most, but I do enjoy beaver builder or Elementor. And for the main reason is that they try to solve their stuff as woodprissy as possible instead of reinventing everything. With Gutenberg, we get competition. So that makes all of those three products better in due time. And that will allow you to reap the benefits basically. So there's embeds as well. These are all available for you now, if you're not aware, but you can paste any of those URLs of a tweet or an Instagram post or a Spotify song. You can use those right now, but Gutenberg makes it in a more shiny interface. And I haven't added any shared blocks, but let's just say you create a particular type of block in a particular post. And two weeks later you realize, hey, that was a good one I created. I kind of want to use it again. So you can take a configured block. You could turn it into a reusable block, which means you can use it in other pages and posts as well. And that gives a whole different dynamic to how you treat content. Because now, for instance, if you have products somewhere or services, and you create a service block, which where you shortly describe what your service is and give a little bit of blurb, how easy would that be if you could use that blurb anywhere else on your entire site? So again, opportunities. So when you start fresh, this is it. Nothing special here to do other than add the plus and start creating your content. So this is what Gutenberg is now. And this is a small video where it interactively shows you what you can do with the block. This is a WooCommerce integration. And as you can see, you can just easily switch columns, how many products you want to see per row, number of rows. So what this allows you to do is think outside the box, because your box has been removed. The box that you're currently using is called the default editor, TinyMCE. It's being, well, not removed, removed yet, but definitely pushed back. And when Gutenberg is integrated into WordPress, you will see a lot of options coming out. There's already quite a few plugins that are working on integrating for Gutenberg, and it's only going to get better. So you might wonder, wonderful idea this Gutenberg thing, but what might break? Because that looks like a completely different editor than I'm currently using. And you'll be right. There is a lot of stuff that can break, because there's a lot of points of integration. We currently use when we're using the editor. If you use WooCommerce, if you use GravityForms, if you use SEO local, for instance, you have those nice buttons on top of the editor that allow you to insert a forum or a store location or a product, whatever you can think of. There's a ton of integrations out there already. So naturally, those working inside the WordPress ecosphere that are aware of what Gutenberg does are already working on how to integrate it. So ACF, for instance, is, I believe in their latest version, have some sort of integration. And I say some sort of, because I think to the best of my knowledge, it's currently kind of a wrapper around their current custom fields and making them available inside of Gutenberg, but they're not necessarily solving it the right way just yet. So there's a lot of plug-in and theme developers working on solutions that will bridge whatever they're building into Gutenberg. So what might break? Well, this is, for instance, something that you might see when you open your editor. So anything at the top, so the medium map address opening our store locator, for instance, the advanced tiny MCE toolbar, anything. Not a lot of people use that one, but there's a few plugins that do this. Advanced tiny MC, for instance. Any tools that are on the net. Simple things like enter a subtitle here. Those are integrations on a custom field type of level. Usually what you see on the right-hand side for our particular plug-in, the Yoast SEO, everything changes. There's nothing that is going to work if we would switch tomorrow. You need to integrate your products into Gutenberg. There's no way around it. So that's what when I said like a big change that we had in WordPress was 3.0, it was mostly on the hood. Only developers started using the custom post types and the custom taxonomies. And once we did, once we activated it, clients just saw extra options, but basically they looked the same like they would create a page or a post. Nothing different there. This changes everything. So the main issues that we currently see as Gutenberg is slated to be merged into WordPress for version 5.0. In case you were wondering why we're still on the 4.9.x branch, this is why. 5.0. When will it be released? Your guess is as good as mine. There were rumors last year of April-May. I don't think we're going to make that. I think there's still a lot of work that needs to be done, particularly when you look at extensibility, accessibility, usability, and backwards compatibility. That's a lot of ill-ease. And it shouldn't make you ill. But it definitely means that you have work to do if you are looking for how to integrate this the best way possible with your current setup, with your client setup. Now for instance if you have projects that you are managing them for your clients still, that will be work for you to do. There's no way around it. It might just be activate an update and make sure you double check everything is working as intended still. But it's possible that the plugging that you're using or that your client is using is just not up to date just yet. Hasn't actually given it thought on how to integrate inside of the Gutenberg editor. So now is the time to be starting to think about how do I solve this? What does it even do? What does it allow me to do? So because it's a plug-in that is very much in the works as we're trying to figure out when and where and what to integrate, there's a whole lot of discussion on what Gutenberg should do out of the box, what it shouldn't do out of the box, how it should work, how to best approach building these blocks, all of that. Most of it is starting to solidify. But if you're looking at software versions, we haven't entered a beta stage yet. So we're technically still in alpha. It's a relatively stable alpha, but 2.5 version a week ago brought in some issues which 2.6 which I think was released yesterday the day before yesterday fixed. So there's stuff that you can break. So my advice wouldn't necessarily go and activate this on your live site and play with it as in let's just see what happens. You know, if you're the adventurous type, go for it. Personally, I play with it. But I play with it a lot because I want to understand the editor. It really really works differently. So the blocks, you can ignore the whole idea. You don't have to understand that you're working with blocks. If you have a client that just likes to type or copy paste this stuff that he created in Word and then paste it in and be done with it, hit a few enters, add an image and he can do that. Or she can do that. It's not about making it more complex, but because there are way more options and possibilities once you start clicking around, you do have more options, right? So there's a lot of ways that you can provide an environment where somebody is possibly screwing it up a little bit. Now, ideally you don't do that on a live site. You could, but I wouldn't recommend to do it. So on the road map currently is a commenting UI, meaning we could have comments per block, as in feedback. Think about content editing teams, right? There's a beautiful article written about Gutenberg and there's a new version out that says 2.5 and right before it launches, or the publish, press publish is almost, you know, somebody's hovering the button already, you have the ability to add a comment to that particular paragraph that says 2.5 and say, hey dude, did you see that 2.6 just released yesterday? Might want to change that paragraph. So things like that become a nice option. UX improvements, so that's for those you not know that UX is user experience, so the entire user experience should be, the focus should be that it doesn't add another layer of complexity. The focus should be, this makes it more nice to play and work with. Now that's not an easy one to do when you're introducing an entire new interface. And it's one that still needs a lot of work. Plug-in APIs, so that's for instance to make it possible to have a proper metabox integration or the integrations that Yoast SEO needs for instance. Accessibility, so unfortunately the current state on accessibility means that Gutenberg, as it stands now, is a step backwards with regards to accessibility. But on the other hand it's very much on the radar of the developers and the people working in the accessibility field as well are incredibly on top of this and I have no doubt that everything will be fixed before it actually is integrated. But it's a big issue currently. And there's ideas for mitigating compatibility as in there's a general consensus of how to solve this. But it's not there yet. So this is a very, very legitimate question by Riyadh. What happens to my custom fields? So who here has used custom fields in their integrations? So that's a lot of hands. I would say 80%. So obviously this is something that needs to be solved. ACF uses that, about the same percentage. So it's a very high percentage of people actually using ACF. So it's a good thing to know that Elliot is very much aware, the developer for ACF, of what needs to happen. But there's still a lot of work to be done. So it kind of boils down to this. Ask not what workers can do for you, but what you can do for workers. So that's a reference to Morton Rondendrickson's talk at Workamp US. And he basically said, hey, if you want this editor thing that we are improving, which we are changing, if you want to have it work as you intended to, then you need to start helping out in making it so. So this is a time, if you haven't yet, to start looking at Gutenberg, activate it and actually use it. Now a simple way would be to create a copy of your life site and activate it and convert every single page into a Gutenberg page and see what that does. Play with it. That's current content that you already have. You can fill it around with it. It doesn't hurt if it breaks. And then the next step could be that you do use it on your life site. And then you can choose per post that you create if that's easy to do in Gutenberg, yes or no. Because that's currently how the editor works. You can choose per post, per new post, whether you do use Gutenberg or not. So you're not screwing up if you were to use it. And in other instances decide not to do it. So the way going forward is that all of you, to some level, should find a way how to help WordPress as a project. So what can you do? That's it. Test. Test, test, test. And once you're done testing, test again. Because that really is the only thing that you can do. Now if you just test in your silo and you don't mention what you're actually testing what you're breaking and what you're expecting to work and it doesn't work the way you expected to do, then you do need to share your feedback, right? Not everybody here is a developer nor do you need to be, but it's not about just the developers. This is a content creation thing so that means basically everyone in this room is going to come across what the changes are in the new editor for you, for every single one of you. Which means that even though I'm I'm the one standing between you and lunch so I can see that you may be like you know just finish up so we can eat but I do like to stress out that the very best thing that you can do is actually test and actually share your feedback. So where can you do that? So Gutenberg is developed as a plug-in on GitHub. This is the address and you will find, and this is an old screen shot on the right, there's way more issues now. All of them. Also a pull request, way more pull requests as well, which means it's been getting traction. It's been getting traction a lot more than when Matt Mullinwick introduced it. And that's a good thing. And if all of you started testing and reporting at the same time that might be even be a little bit too much as well. But I would like you to encourage you to between now and WorkCamp Europe because you're all going to WorkCamp Europe, right? Yeah, see? Silence is golden so. You have done your fair share of testing. And anything that you come across that is like, wait, I expected it to do this, but that's not even close to what I'm seeing. Why is it not working? Maybe it's a feature, maybe it's a bug, I don't know. But you're going to want to confirm what is actually the issue. So go to github.com if you don't already have an account. Create one, it's very simple, very straightforward. And with that it gives you a voice. It gives you a voice to be heard. You are the one that is helping determine this future of not just Gutenberg but WorkPrice as a project. So there's more than testing that you can do. When you go to meet-ups, WorkPrice meet-ups, when you come across people not here today but working with WorkPrice, you need to spread the word. And I don't need to as if you don't, I'll come find you. But I do mean it as you should have that concern for yourself and by having that concern for yourself, you also have that concern for your neighbors. Spread the word. Start integrating. For those of you wanting to play with it in a live environment, you can. There's a few things. If you go to whippers.org slash Gutenberg, I don't know where that happened. That project page explains you how to best integrate. It links up the Wikipedia page on github for Gutenberg and it'll explain all the different options that you currently have in how to integrate. So the very straightforward things are that your CSS classes that you add for the cover images for instance and the full wide and those types of things. You need to physically add CSS classes for that in your theme. So without those your theme is going to break. You can ask for help for whenever you come across something that is confusing to you or you'd like to have more better explanation or you'd like to know the decision behind why is it working like this and why are we not doing that. I'll make this presentation available later on but I'd like to invite you to actually use these resources even if you end up just using it for content creation. It gives you a good idea of what the ideas are behind it and it's a good way to get a little more in depth than me highlighting here. These two videos are definitely well worth watching because the first one more than he explains very very beautifully how to best approach like how do I make this WordPress thing better. How do I prepare what kind of mindset do I use and the second video is Matt Mullenweig at the state of the word in 2017 which was in Nashville. There's a very long demo by Matthias one of the lead developers of the Gutenberg plugin in which they explain in depth what type of options there are. So you saw me show a little demo of the blocks that you have available but he'll actually show you think it's about 15 minutes what the options are and how you can actually think about using it. So that's it that's all I have to say about Gutenberg. Test, integrate and feedback that's basically where it comes down to and realize that this is not something you can escape this is going to happen. So the classic editor as you see it now will be available even after WordPress 5.0 launches but you will have to turn it on most likely. So there's still debate about how that's going to work but know that you cannot escape this one. Thank you. We have time for questions if there are any which I can't imagine but yeah. Sorry I didn't catch the first part of your question. I think there will still be a need for it but definitely less than currently is available. Yeah so sorry the question was do we do I think if custom fields options are still going to be required or necessary once Gutenberg launches. I think yes but definitely not the way we see it now. There are ways of doing it in a smarter way than coding everything from scratch but there's no UI currently available to create a block like that. So there's a GitHub I forgot his name. I'm at Hawaii's I think I think I think his name is. He has created a command line tool that says create Gutenblock and it'll pull in everything have your file hierarchy and everything is in place and then you start building the the Gutenblock itself. I think I forgot to mention that Gutenberg as a plugin and as an editor solution is almost entirely built inside of JavaScript React to be specific. So we are making a big switch from PHP to JavaScript once Gutenberg launches. So if you want to actually really integrate into Gutenberg you're going to have to learn JavaScript deeply. I want to go one step further in that direction. I think that API is completely missing for for Henry and block 7.4 there's nothing like the data structure. It's just on the top of it it's more or less like it's encapsulating it and from the outside it's pretty hard to get to the options and to be the same things So I'm not going to repeat that entire question. But I think the TLDR version is Gutenberg currently is lacking an API to integrate with easily on a block level. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Or any API? Yeah. Well, to use what it produces itself in the data structure. Right. To use what you create in Gutenberg as a data structure in other parts of where you may need it. Correct? Yeah. So there's a lot of debate about it. And there's a lot of ideas about it. It just hasn't finalized yet. But it's something that the developers are aware of. And so currently we have an API for the sidebar, which is a very beautiful solution for something very simple. But in my mind that should have been allowed to do way earlier. And I think you kind of have to look at in that perspective. It's still alpha. It's not better. It's definitely not even a release candidate. So whatever we currently see is moving towards what it will end up being. But the developers are aware that there's a lot of stuff that needs to be added to make it a complete solution. Yeah. When and how and which version? I have no idea. All the way in the back. As soon as I'm using the Gutenberg I cannot access the code view anymore. You cannot access what? The code view of the computer next to you. Yeah, you can. Per block. Per block. Every single block has an option to the right, the three dots. And there's an option to select the advanced view or edit the HTML directly. Yeah. I saw another. Yeah. So the question is... I'm following the debate for a long time now. Yeah. And there's still so many questions. And you said that if I can explore that alpha state. Yeah. So the question is, do I think WordPress 5.0 will actually launch this year? That's a wonderful question. And I'm not trying to be political correct here because... But I have no idea. So the thing is, I don't think Gutenberg has hit critical mass yet in acceptance. And people actually looking at it and start helping out with it. If that were to start with you guys and then that spreads out. I think there's an opportunity that we can actually see 5.0 ship this year. But it just needs a lot of work still. APIs and stuff like that kind of needs to be in there, in my opinion. I can see it's being shipped without it. But what I think it needs most now is a clear decision of what needs to be in the 5.0 version. And I don't think there's a clear vision just yet. There's ideas and there's been a lot of talk about it. But it's still a bit of a guess from the outside looking in. But it has the potential of being launched this year. Yes. Don't ask me about the percentage. All the way in the back. You're asking about custom fields? Yes. And whether you will have to rebuild all of your sites to integrate? All templates. Yeah. So custom fields are data points that are there still after Gutenberg will launch. So if you're using default solutions to create custom metaboxes for custom fields and stuff like that, be that CNB2 or ACF or any of the other solutions out there? Sorry? So if you just use the whippers default custom fields, that is also considered being backwards compatible. So that should just work. That is the goal. So it shouldn't be that just because whippers updates, just because it changes to a different editor, that your site breaks. That is not the goal. That has never been the goal. And I don't see that changing. It shouldn't change. That doesn't change. It doesn't change. That's all backwards compatible. Maybe there comes a better solution and it becomes a deprecated function and you need to upgrade at some point. But it's not going to break. I don't think of any time anymore. Plus again, me, food, you. Thank you all.