 Welcome everyone to the February hyper ledger financial markets mortgage subgroup meeting that's always a mouthful. Before we get started, I always like to express our appreciation to the financial markets special industry group that we fall under the hyper ledger foundation for their ongoing support and making this group possible. As I said our speaker today is calm lash Nagwari will be discussing hybrid blockchain. So why don't we go ahead and get started and I will move on to the next slide. Sorry, just moving a little too fast this morning as always please note that this meeting is being recorded and is under the umbrella of the hyper ledger foundation. So we asked that everyone abide by the antitrust policy and the code of conduct. The antitrust policy that we're sharing states that we avoid discussions of companies specific products and projects. Don't make negative remarks about other companies or products and the code of conduct means that we treat each other with respect, never discriminate and communicate constructively. We fully support hyper ledger's policy of openness, equity and inclusion, and for new participants. We welcome you and if you'd like please introduce yourself on the chat. And let us know if there's any specific areas of interest or anything that you would like to add our agenda today will go through the introduction covers the hyper ledger community information. James will provide an update of blockchain in the mortgage industry, calm lash will go through the hybrid blockchain and then we'll have a Q&A. We always cover this slide at the beginning of each meeting and this is to reinforce that we're all on the same blockchain journey that but we may be at different points along that journey. This group is meant to help everyone on their blockchain journey and to demonstrate the feasibility of blockchain technology through mortgage industry use cases. Define potential implementation paths with mortgage industry. And what does a mortgage company need in order to implement blockchain and just to talk about the difficulty or challenges of implementing blockchain. Okay, the next three slides I always mentioned for those that are new to the group or would like more information. This slide provides links to different resources for the Linux Foundation hyper ledger foundation, the mortgage subgroup and second from the bottom. These are great resources and will reference several of them but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on these slides. If you do want to access these resources this slide tells you how to get a Linux foundation ID or LF ID so take a look at this take a look at the video. And then the last slide these are some links for those of you that are new to blockchain. This training is free. This is how I got knowledgeable about blockchain so this is excellent training and it's free. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to James Hendrick will walk us through the state of blockchain and the global mortgage industry. Excellent thank you very much Marvin welcome everybody. Let's go ahead and move on to the first slide. So we've got a couple great articles this time again all of these articles are excessive from the hyper ledger wiki site. But first off touching on the metaverse which we've talked about before so real estate's always been considered an investment for passive income. We're really a global audience interested in buying property within the metaverse, and given its perspective size there's a huge chance to generate passive income in this area. Owning real estate and running it out as among the most well known methods for generating additional income within the metaverse, you know previously we've talked about the central land and the sandbox as an example. Unfortunately, there isn't much available information on the earnings metaverse landlords are currently anticipating, since this data is not publicly disseminated. However, as businesses look to, you know hold events in the metaverse it is considered to be a very profitable market. And as the adoption of the metaverse grows the demand for experts and experienced professionals in this area will surely grow. And I thought that really was one of the biggest takeaways from this article. Coming from coin desk intane as a platform for trading tokenize asset back securities built as an avalanche subnet called intane markets. So a subnet is a sovereign network that defines its own rules, and is comprised of groups of validators that work together to reach consensus on one or more blockchains. Tokenization is a growing trend among financial institutions as it allows traditional financial players to attract more investors by using blockchain technology. According to a report from the Boston consulting group and Asia's private market exchange, the asset tokenization industry will expand to a 16.1 trillion dollar business opportunity by 2030. Intane's digital marketplace automates the function such as the verification of agent, underwriting, rating agencies, service or trustee and the investor. So according to the company, rather than replacing trust intermediaries intane markets integrates them into a singular platform and process to enable digital issuance and investment on chain. And the company's first platform intane admin currently administers over $5.5 billion in assets. And then lastly, we've got a new survey from Casper labs and so be analytics, really kind of revealing the sentiment around blockchain adoption, and how it is having, you know, a positive influence among enterprises. The poll was conducted with over 600 is positive. Excuse me. The coal is the poll was conducted with over 600 business enterprise decision makers in the US UK and China, and 90% of those businesses surveyed reported deploying blockchain technology and some capacity with 87% saying they plan to invest in blockchain in the next year. Over half of the respondents plan to invest in blockchain in 2023. So where do the enterprise leaders fall short. Blockchain is not crypto, the message that we've been carrying out for the last several months, despite 73% feeling confident in their knowledge of blockchain technology. 54% of the respondents still see the terms blockchain and crypto as interchangeable. And that's, you know, really what organizations like this is all about because education is the biggest challenge and barrier for those outside of the blockchain space wishing to interact with the technology and interact with their clients on an educated basis about it. A few other interesting stats out of this article, businesses already utilizing the tech are benefiting from two of its main capacities. And copy protection at 42% reporting in and it based operations are using blockchain for internal workflows at 40% supply chain efficiencies at 34% and software development at 30% among others. And next slide Marvin. Lastly, our esteemed Marvin van togan recently posted a blog in the blockchain industry group and actually since we've got him here Marvin do you want to talk about this a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks James so the intent of this article for the blockchain industry group was just to tell the reader about the ventes his own blockchain journey so this is to demonstrate that we actually do eat our own dog. It walks through how we assess the business opportunity, but within the mortgage industry, how we took a look at the different potential platforms and chose hyperledger fabric. And then how we utilize the different tools that hyperledger makes available, like for example the sample use cases we started off with those. That was a real great experience. It got our team up and running. It helped us set up our own blockchain lab. And then we started to take those wordings and apply it to specifically the mortgage industry we created our own proof of concept and we actually went through a series of proof of concepts. And that's one of the things we outlined within that article we went through our three different proof of concepts and then we talked about how we're now applying those learnings to our own blockchain mortgage application. A lot of the learnings are listed there take advantage of the open source community have a lot of discussions on architecture monitor your processing requirements, and of course test test test. And then when you're done test some more so I think this was a really good article I am putting my own horn a little bit. It was a lot of fun to write and please take a look at it and hopefully it helps you out. And you're definitely not tuning your horn loud enough on this. This is really a fantastic article if you're looking about hey, where should I start what are the things that I should be thinking about and you know what's that journey what's that road going to look like for us. Marvin does a fantastic job here of walking through what we've been doing. Next slide Marvin. And just as a reminder, here's a copy of our wiki site, along with the URL down at the bottom. I'll actually pop that into the chat right now for easy access. So all of the articles that we have covered including Marvin's you can access directly on the right hand side. As Marvin mentioned, we've got the minutes and the recordings from all of our previous presentations going back to 2021. So do you know take the opportunity to access them there. We also have down there near the bottom the previous mortgage blockchain research that we've been doing so articles that are about three to four months old I start moving over there and I keep the most recent right. We have curated a large library of articles, you know, we're probably running well over 200 now over the last year and a half. So if you guys are looking for information if you're looking for something to, you know, build case scenarios for yourself feel free to reach out and or if you guys have articles that you come across love for you to share them and we may feature them in these presentations. So back over to you Marvin. Hey, thanks James. Next, I would like to introduce you to Kamlesh Nagwari. He's the CTO of blockchain at snapper future tech. I had the pleasure of working with Kamlesh at the 2022 I triple e global emerging emerging technology conference. He has 12 years experience in software development it consulting and blockchain. He is among the top 30 most influential people in blockchain in India. He's also the co chair of hyper ledger India and a member of the hyper ledger technical steering committee. And he's also a TEDx speaker so we're very honored to have him on board and thank you Kamlesh for joining us today and I'll turn it over to you. Yeah, so thank you Marvin and James for inviting so I think you are kind enough to talk about my latest blog. So, as a, because every by the guy, every by the guy, I write some newsletter about the blockchain adoption and blockchain trends. And this week I wrote about hyper hybrid blockchain, because in the in the recent, I think, from last I think global forum there's lots of talk about the hybrid blockchain at the global forum and doubly 90 cent in the devos hyper ledger meetups and meeting. So I think hybrid blockchain is growing and there are there are maybe people are using but maybe they are not knowing. So, can I share my screen so I can talk presented. Yes, so I think it's my thought process and my. I'm not that much expert in the hybrid thing but at least what we are doing at the company level and what each actually so maybe you will get some idea. So, first I will talk like I just written this particular newsletter. The future is hybrid blockchain and this is on my thought process and how the blockchain is a moving toward public private to now hybrid and some use cases and kind of cases studies and I think, and I think this is recently also hyper ledger posted on the hyper ledger which is one of the foundations to LinkedIn to their handles. So, anyway, I have my presentation which I created just today only. And I think before that I just answered about this intent market so I think how the technology is measuring and becoming a production grade so even I, I was the first employee when they offered me to join that company, the intent. The founder and see you very well in my personal touch. So, he offered me to join his company this intent in 2017. And now we see like you know is featured and now having it in the production grade implementation. I think they are using the hyper ledger fabric and now exploring the other other blockchain. So we can see the this intent itself is a hybrid blockchain kind of because for a few of the component they are using the hyper ledger fabric. And now they this intent market is a part of the launch a blockchain. And they also doing with other public blocks. So, I think this kind of combination of blockchain solution is kind of hybrid blockchain. So, so I'm talking about hybrid blockchain via a bit blockchain and use cases. So typically is a combination of both actually so in the one solution in the some particular piece or the feature are you using the private blockchain permission blockchain like fabric R3 code or in either such kind of permission blockchain. And for few section or kind of because there's some features of the same problem. So all using the public blockchain. So this combination of using the public and private blockchain called a hybrid blockchain actually so you can utilize both both beauties of the both blockchain. So you can use the transparency and security of public blockchain and permission and permission and control and privacy of the private blockchain because in some organizations some use cases. We need the privacy and the security is a main goal and don't want to share the data outside to the particular organizations need and some of the data use cases. You need the want to utilize the public blockchain whether it's a liquidity purpose or maybe bringing the more transparency for the public goods or public. So like nowadays I think organization is using both kind of combination together for solving the problems even we are one of the solution we are using the same thing. So for end to end traceability of the product we are using the hyper the fabric and then tokenizing that assets and product information. We are using the polygon blockchain. So I think this is the kind of flavor we can say the hybrid blockchain. So why now hyper enterprise is going towards the hybrid blockchain. So my thought process is couple of point one is flexibility because couple of organization thing like they need the privacy and control but some point they also need some kind of transparency or allowing public participant to take in their business processes. So this is one reason. And another reason I have seen many organization even actually running a private blockchain in unknowingly now they even incorporating all kind of this public blockchain combination. Like I mentioned the supply chain perspective, like a traceability of the real word assets and then tokenizing the person in a in a public blockchain because I think when we see the public and private blockchain both word. Usability in the UI of public blockchain is very good like suppose if you want to do a tokenization then. Evian blockchain is best you come forward with direct wallet application good UI experience no need to be right about the infrastructure and infrastructure is a code deployment so you just need to write your smart contract and integrate with your front end and you're done. You do lots of governance and lots of things to be maintained. So this is why people are organization is moving toward the using of both technologies. Another is the security privacy. So some kind of like some organization enterprises want to control some data points whether even like we know like there are many block public blocks and also talk about the ZK page you know knowledge group. But still suppose if following some GDPR compliances or even even organization is not comfortable to share the data outside. So even currently we are discussing with one customer they want to utilize the same same same model like let's do my end to end data input using the some proper private permission blockchain. And then I want to share some specific field let's say five to six fields where we can use as a public domain available and many solutions. So I think there is a solution in Maharashtra they issuing some digital certificates on on blockchain and that is typically hyper laser fabric based digital certificate and then storing that proof of transaction on a public blockchain like polygon. So, and I think this is not new I think this is around one year old live in production in Maharashtra government in one of the Indian state. So, organization is trying this kind of tricks and some kind of way to bring the usability of this technical solution they they don't care whether the private blockchain is required or public blockchain required. If customer is happy and comfortable to and whatever customer need now they can customize using this both tools together. Another is scalability so sorry. So in when we have private permission blocks and then scalability in your control how many organization how many parties when you want to manage you couldn't govern that thing. So, in such solution where you require such kind of thing where you want public blockchain but also need the scalability of solution that you could enable this kind of solutions interoperability so that is another thing so let's say for example, there is a supply chain financing that I think where supply chain you are doing some interest ability of your material and then want to finance the particular supplier for the payment. So, that may be both are separate network could be there maybe on the same technology or maybe on this different from blockchain. So, and I think that's why this hypergeal cactus cake tie we were another interoperability blockchain products are is emerging because now, now for the interoperative perspective people are using the hybrid blocks and constant where they are taking some certain things you know one blockchain and then remaining in a different blockchain. Another is a comparison regulation so that that is about like the DPR or other kind of privacy data comparison regulation or other thing for example, still there are not clear about the crypto regulations digital asset regulation in a mostly most countries. So, in that kind of scenarios you can go with customer to implement the private blocks and for example, and it is not a regulatory concern for example, because there's no crypto involved, and for the other step you can use the public blockchain. So, I think this, these are the few reasons where I think my enterprises are looking at the hybrid blockchain kind of solution. So, because we are talking in the financial services working group so why I put some point like how the blockchain could be beneficial and became changer for financial services because in financial services are is a very complex word. There are there are many regulate regulations there are lots of different compliances come in the picture and mostly a blockchain nowadays using the financial services sectors. So, there is also the liquidity is neat. And so, so public blockchain could bring the liquidity in the this kind of digital asset or kind of kind of ecosystem and permission private blockchain to record the transaction proof at the or the traceability of any transaction. And it will also bring the interoperability because different financial services are building on different blockchain protocols and this kind of hybrid blockchain could enable the that interoperability in easy way. So, this is the reason, and I mentioned couple of use cases where some of the production something is happening like suppose there is a XDC network from Zilfin. So, they're having a some interoperable blockchain network for global trading finance. So, there are digitization and other digital transformation process happening on the column blockchain. And then tokenization and other other related liquidity perspective part piece happening on the public blockchain on Ethereum. So, this is one of the kind of case study there I think there are many such another kind of use CBDC. So, I think there are CBDC there are multiple, I think, almost 100 and 1114 countries working on CBDC and there are different different architecture different different business model they are working. So, CBDC could also be one of the use cases where hybrid blockchain could be used even I, I just go through the particular IEEE newspaper news article. And this is paper how how the CBDC could be leveraged the public and private blockchain combination together. So, I think this is very interesting like how some piece maybe you can take care about on a like commercial banking and financial institution onboarding on a private blockchain for their customer and then as a consumer facing site, you could have a some kind of public blockchain. Another is tokenization and digital asset of this thing so I think typically like what even we are doing with our product where we are entering traceability of the any asset we are doing on a private permission blockchain, because we are a participant in the organization only want to see the traceability of thing, but in the at the customer side, maybe you could create a NFT of this token, this particular information and could be And so this kind of solution is part of the this kind of initiatives. Another kind of insurance use cases so even I think before yesterday I joined the climate as an accounting SIG so there's a kind of agriculture insurance where I think they are they are kind of using a both combination where they are using a private blockchain in somewhere to record the transaction details and then carbon credit or insurance settlement happening on a public blockchain like Polygon and even this payment settlement process also they have enablement on to use the both kind of blockchain. If suppose your customer and your consumer want to use the fiat currency kind of thing so they can use the permission blockchain to do that enablement and if consumer interest is okay to use the crypto and other token kind of mechanism then they are using a public blockchain with Polygon. Another use cases in like KYC, ML kind of thing where where can storing and sharing the KYC details can be done on a privacy and kind of control environment at the banks and institutions site and then maybe for bringing the KYC, you can say that at the broader level is a common KYC ML model. It could be open as a public blockchain model. So is not public blockchain is like a public blockchain like Polygon or Ethereum maybe you can save the governance of your private blockchain or construction blockchain is an open network where you can open some kind of APIs and then other participant can access the network. So is not necessarily like hybrid blockchain is always public blockchain and private blockchain. It could be private blockchain, framework, but in the governance side you could set up in whatever way you want to set up. Certain part of the network or certain part of the solution in the completely controlled and permission environment and some of the transaction and the processes in a publicly domain kind of thing. So I think this I have taken from this Capsar, Capsar Labs and the same study they did like so how the currently the blockchain wise adoption is happening. So if you see this hybrid blockchain is not new right. If you see this blue color I think I think 38% organization already using the hybrid kind of blockchain in their use cases and is globally US, UK and China and then private blockchain part and then public blockchain but majority of using the hybrid blockchain. And this is done the survey on the 600 organizations globally by Capsar Labs. So I think and that's why I think like hybrid blockchain is going to the going to be the game changer for adoption of technology because because now even there are many customers even I faced in my life where where customer don't care about the decentralization and other thing maybe they need the mutability for example smart contract. So this kind of thing can be can be can be implemented by the future of kind of hybrid blockchain kind of setups. So you could use the public private blockchain or private blockchain in both permission or permissionless setup way to create the customer oriented use cases. And I think that's I believe like heavy blockchain is going to be next thing. And I think I think that's why even Hyperlegia Foundation and many other blockchain communities now started talking about hybrid blockchain. So yeah, thank you. So any question. Thank you, Kamala said that was a great presentation. Excellent information on hybrid blockchains. And I think we do have a couple questions. So let me turn it over to the team. Kamala should I have a question. So you know, with this group in the past we've talked about consortiums, you know groups of banks or other institutions coming together and, you know, working on a solution and I think your case studies that you showed here are an excellent way of demonstrating that. You know, when you think about consortiums you think about companies coming together to do this what are some of the biggest challenges they can, you know, anticipate that they need to address when developing a hybrid blockchain. So I think main challenge I believe is about the ROI. I think if you see the example of trade lens and the V dot trade and other other implementation, so if there's a not right incentive model to the all the participants in the network, then I think whatever the technology is good is not going to be adopted. So, so I think I mean and that's why this hybrid kind of blockchain is going to be beneficial because you could bring the incentivization and using the public blocks in my liquidity on some tokenization kind of kind of instruments. Excellent. And, you know, in the chat Daniel if you want to come off you mute feel free your questions a little bit lengthy and you've got some color to add to it. Yeah, how do you build up an operator hybrid block system sorting and hyper ledger. I think we have a project called like hyper tech test. So, I think this is the, I think best framework and protocol to implement such kind of thing. So, because in hyper tech I support the multiple blocks in framework fabric. Bezu, I think or Ethereum or other and then forget about them so and the same. This must be so this hyper ledger we were labs. It also offered the some other kind of interoperability API is kind of kind of driven so I think this kind of tech tech could be combined together. So I think I believe like high so there are multiple things one is hybrid blockchain where you are using a separate to blockchain in the same solution to some certain pieces. Another thing maybe you are using hybrid blockchain in terms of interoperability perspective where you are doing some certain piece on one block and then using that data information and using in some other blockchain via the API or the business or any other kind of interoperability mechanisms available. So I think Kekta is the right protocol to implement such kind of thing. But I think there are like Polkadot, there is a Zinfane and I think couple of solution provider are there in this but I think Kekta is the right protocol to implement and even like Firefly in the hyper ecosystem. I'm glad you mentioned Firefly in response to Daniels question. Daniel I highly recommend using Firefly because it sets up quote unquote the plumbing for hyper ledger fabric. When we switched to Firefly, it made our proof of concepts that we were building so much easier it really helps you get to that next level if you've already done Ethereum by hand and you want to build something larger with Firefly. Definitely do so. If you want to reach out to me afterwards or if you want to join the Firefly community group, they're very helpful. There's a ton of different ways that you can do this that will make it a lot easier. Kamlesh, I did have a question for you because one of the things that we've been starting to hear especially within the financial services industry is increased interest in tokenization. You spoke a little bit about tokenization being used in the hybrid blockchain. Can you speak a little bit more about that because when I think about tokenization in the hybrid blockchain, some of the questions that pop into my mind and maybe they're not appropriate questions is, does the token live on the private blockchain, on the permission, where is it created, how does it transition from one to another, or are those really questions that are not appropriate for a hybrid model? So I think it depends on the use cases to use cases where I think maybe tokenization, I think tokenization is some kind of way of digital representation of your asset so protocol doesn't matter, it's a public or private, you could do that thing. If your customer or your client is okay to having a permission blockchain because even we face sometimes when the customer wants tokenization on the public, permission blockchain too. So that can be done also, but I think mostly tokenization people use mostly part they are going to have liquidity kind of settlement kind of thing. So on that I think public blockchain is the right thing to do. But sometimes tokenization you are also using internally for your business process perspective. So on that time it doesn't matter whether you're using a permission or a public blockchain. But if your tokenization is for the public or consumer facing side then I think public blockchain is the right thing. Because I just mentioned in the starting like user interface and the simplicity user experiences I think is still challenging for the permission kind of blockchain because you need to take care all the things about the transaction signing to the wallet and digital signature all need to be taken care by the developer. But in the public blockchain all is there you just need the wallet extension in your browser and can manage it. Okay, so where would I create the token first would I create it in the private blockchain and then expose it to the public, or does it depend upon the use case, I think that's But let's say for example, let's say suppose you're doing some kind of carbon accounting and then tokenization. So carbon accounting information you could do on a your permission hyper ledger fabric kind of any kind of very good regarding some data points about the your accounting of the particular information. And then tokenization you could read this data via the any interoperable framework like a guy or other thing and read this data and pass to the your public blockchain endpoint tokenization. To tokenize it this way. Okay. Okay. Thank you. There's another question in the chat from Elma. Are there examples of hybrid blockchain in the mortgage industry that you know of. No, I don't know but I but but I believe I think obviously it was recently study that there are 38 to 40% of companies are using the hybrid blockchain combination so I think definitely we can find out something. Okay, great. Are there any other questions from the group for Kamlesh on hybrid blockchain. Okay, I do have one last question Kamlesh, and it regards the processing costs because what we found in our proof of concept is the processing costs can be significant either from an AWS perspective if you if you have your blockchain or if you're using one of third party providers of different blockchain technology, and there can be a licensing and processing costs from that perspective. It are processing costs expected to be higher for hybrid blockchains because now you have public and permission. So, what are your thoughts on that. No, I think I don't think so thing processing cost, I think in the public side it may be depend on the as your gaze fees. Maybe you are using the same same thing, or maybe less for example suppose if you're completely solution in a private blockchain so maybe you are maybe needing the more infrastructure. In the public blockchain maybe certain people doing in the public blocks and then you are just being the case is but about the viability of this thing depend on the gaze fees and the transaction fees on the public blocks inside. Okay. If I can say recently an example like suppose recently there's the IPV IPV e IPW e I think they have done some kind of hybrid blockchain for 25 million NFTs. So they are doing I think is available and recently announced in the devos meeting. So, they are they have minted around 25 NFTs public blockchain and they are using this information on some hybrid fabric based blockchain. I think this kind of examples are many where companies are using this kind of setups. Okay, great. And I think someone put the IPW e in the chat. Thank you. I think this is the biggest NFT minted so far in any of the blocking 25 million patents tokenize as NFTs using the hyper laser and public blockchain together. Okay, great. Yeah, thank you very much. Are there any other questions for Kamlesh from the team. Okay, I think that's all the questions. Kamlesh thank you for joining our group. And your contact information is in that presentation will share with the rest of the team afterwards so if anyone would like to contact Kamlesh with any other questions or just to exchange information that will be available. And thank you again Kamlesh we appreciate you speaking with us today. Yeah absolutely Kamlesh thank you for taking the opportunity to join our group. Yes. Okay, so the next item on the agenda was just to go over. Let's see here if I can go back to the presentation is just to go over any potential future topics. I don't know if there's any future topics that people in the audience would like us to address in the future but I just want to open it up to the team so if there are any topics that you would like us to address by all means let us know. And we can definitely add those to the agenda I'm reaching out to additional speakers that can join us in the future. We'll continue to talk about business cases. We'll have technical demonstrations knowledge sharing. One of the items from last year that we didn't get a chance to address is getting someone from one of the regulatory bodies or compliance agencies to come speak with us. I'm still working on that and that's at the top of my list if anyone on this call has any contacts that we could speak to by all means, let me know, and we will add that to the future. I just want to open it up to the rest of the team to just see if there are any additional questions either for myself, James, anyone else on this event as team or calm lash. So just one last query for any questions. So I'll come off mute and ask a question. Lucas waley I'm at Lima one capital. We're a private business purpose lender. Are we seeing any movement or use in the in in blockchain for, I guess, dealing with counterparty complexity with whole loan sales so from from warehouse to, you know, other counterparties ultimately do securitization. There are a couple companies that I've heard of that are starting to look at that. I thought one of them was actually going to be on the call today. Have you ever heard of lender blocks. I have not know. Yeah, lender blocks does full loan securitization, and they were actually taking a look at using blockchain technology. And an additional question on that I guess within the hyper hyper ledger community. Within the hyper ledger community. I don't know if anyone is actually using hyper ledger specifically for that so I can double check but the closest that I've heard of was lender blocks they're up in the Bay Area. Their CEO is Paul Bowen, and he joins us on occasion so I can put you in touch with him if you'd like. Okay Marvin I guess I've got your content info as well follow up off call. Okay, cool. Thanks. Thanks. Okay, anyone else have any questions. I know that there are some questions. There's some chats. I don't know if there are any additional questions in there. Come let's put it's contact information there so one last query for questions. Okay guys, I think that that's it. Thank you very much for joining us in this session here is our contact information for anyone that would like to contact us with any questions, or any additional comments. Let us know, please join us for the next hyper ledger session. This takes place the second Thursday of every month. And with that, I will end it. Thank you for attending. Give you guys 15 minutes back to your day and come lash again thank you for joining us. Yeah, thank you. Bye bye. Bye everyone thank you.