 Okay, let's go ahead and get started and we're going to begin our second session, which is on the regional Aspects of long duration energy storage and we're very fortunate to have Anna Seifken from the USTOE technology transitions office So Mitra Saxena from KAUST, the King Abdul University of Science and Technology and Elizabeth Inler, Chief Scientist for Shell Energy Storage and Integration and finally our own Mark Thurber, the Associate Director for Research Energy and Sustainable Development and Bo Shen, a research scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab So it's going to be a fantastic Aspect here because almost all of the real execution would depend on the local conditions the geographies the Policies that are in place in particular and relevant regions. So Anna will be speaking with respect to the United States So Anna Good morning, everyone. It's good to see you all here I'm just going to go through a few slides this morning and talk about sort of the the national Perspective so now we're on a regional panel, but I wanted to make sure that we really sort of started at that global level for the United States So I'm going to give a quick quick introduction I do want to talk about Bill and Ira my two best friends because we're talking about setting the national stage And then a little bit of talk about the pathways for a commercial liftoff And a reminder or I'll tell you again But I'm going to tell you at the beginning that there's actually a webinar tomorrow at 1 p.m. Eastern Which is 10 o'clock California that's specifically focused on those reports And then I'm going to talk about a partnership that's come together over the past few months That could be particularly important for those of you in industry So the quick introduction my name is Anna I work for the office of technology transitions, which is a small office an enabling office much like ARPA E Within the department But we have gotten much larger recently and so I'm going to talk a little bit about that as well I have my LinkedIn here if you have not connected with me. I'd love to connect with you after I have some business cards as well If you have additional questions So We are on what I would call at the Department of Energy a sprint an absolute race right now So since President Biden was sworn into office We have been going about a hundred miles an hour On his first day in office He committed the United States to rejoining the Paris Climate Accord and to becoming a leader again an international Climate change reduction So in late April of that same year He convened a global leaders summit and pledged the US to a 50 percent greenhouse gas reduction by 2030 and we have continued to show leadership in the United States ever since and Really, it's because we're facing an unprecedented climate crisis of which I don't need to go into the details with you, but certainly coveted and the geopolitical Environment have disrupted global supply chain in ways that we haven't seen and they have directly impacted resources So the Biden administration in partnership with both my boss, Secretary Jennifer Granholm have set aside bold decarbonization goals with a new vision for an equitable transition that creates jobs And strengthens supply chains and domestic manufacturers Manufacturing in ways that we haven't seen before So it's estimated that we're going to need about 10 to 20 trillion dollars of Private investment in order to get all of this done by 2050 So there are new laws Which are very familiar to many of you, but I want to talk a little bit about what they mean to us So it's the most the inflation reduction act is the most wide ranging law That promises to aid in the nation's covet 19 recovery bolster the economy lower health care costs and address climate change But in fact, ira is the single largest investment in climate action in our nation's history So together ira and the bipartisan infrastructure law invest more than 450 billion dollars Into the nation's energy system at this really important moment in time So these three things we think about them in terms of the backbone Which is the bipartisan bipartisan infrastructure law Which makes the largest long-term investment in our nation's infrastructure in nearly a century The brain which is the chips and science act which invests in cutting-edge science and innovation to boost american competitiveness Including a lot of work on semiconductors and it brings jobs and supply chains back to the united states And then the lungs which are the inflation reduction act or ira Which breathes life into the clean energy economy by incentivizing deployment of clean energy technologies And lowering energy costs for american families So when you think about these altogether, we're saving consumers money We're creating quality jobs We're providing long-term stability for manufacturers and investors into the future We're improving public health And we're empowering disadvantaged communities to take advantage of this clean energy revolution So a snapshot of some of the funding impacts About 14 billion dollars for loans 9 billion for buildings 6 billion for manufacturing 3 billion for the electric grid 2 billion for national laboratory infrastructure and it goes on and on from there So the bills rebates and tax credits are providing unprecedented Degrees of certainty stability and prosperity to the clean energy market So rmi Has already put together very quickly this snapshot of investments And to talk specifically about long-duration energy storage. We have about 350 million dollars available For emerging long-duration energy storage demonstration projects Most of that coming from the office of clean energy demonstrations in partnership with the office of electricity It's capable of delivering electricity for 10 to 24 hours or longer So we talked earlier about what long duration means for us. It's 10 hours is really our goal So it's funded in part by the 2021 infrastructure law But it aims to make new renewable energy technologies easier for customers and communities to procure So my office specifically is the office of technology Transitions and as I mentioned many of you may not have heard of us except for some of the programs Listed on the right-hand side of the slide You might have heard of energy icor or you might have partnered with a national lab on a technology commercialization fund Call But these are some of the things that we work on But we've gone from an office that was about 30 to 40 million In funding to one that now has about 160 million dollars in funding And so that's meant a tremendous amount in terms of our ability to impact things In the market specifically things like long-duration energy storage So this is a slide that I love to show because people have a difficult It's it's hard to see from the outside Where you should be going for your funding where you should be thinking about in terms of pursuit of funding for different technologies So we of course talk in terms of trl levels And this very clearly shows you that the office of technology transitions sort of goes across the entire spectrum of a new emerging technology But oh said the office of clean energy demonstrations Fills an important gap between where the program offices and spir sttr programs An rpe dropped off and before you get to the loan programs office, which usually starts at 100 million dollars So in that middle gap is where the office of clean energy demonstrations And that's why this time is confusing in some ways because there's more funding than ever available But you never quite know where it's coming from So it's important to note that you need to sort of follow a lot of different offices That are new in the department So our priorities include um understanding capabilities of the market Ensuring that capital becomes more available Working on collaboration across the entire organization Providing context so that people understand exactly what we're trying to accomplish and what can be accomplished And also trying to figure out some contracting mechanisms that are easier for people to understand Um that we also have recently launched and I mentioned this at the beginning A set of reports and I'm going to speak about those more specifically So What we did was we decided to partner with The loan program office the office of clean energy demonstrations as I mentioned and the office of policy to put together Four different policy reports In fact the one at the bottom says carbon management forthcoming. It was actually released earlier this week maybe last week But these four reports they're each about 90 pages to 100 pages long with an executive summary But what we tried to do is capture Um Exactly where the market is right now at a point in time But we're intending to update these on a regular basis so that as new industry information comes in We're able to include that in our thinking So These methodology reports. We're looking at the current landscape We wanted to understand what would be required for lift off And then we wanted to understand the levers that could be used specifically to move products and technologies Into the marketplace more quickly We also wanted to create a shared incredible fact base So that we could be using the same language because we found that every office was talking about this slightly differently And we used these reports to align So again, it's brand new information tomorrow at one o'clock eastern 10 o'clock local time jiggershaw Vanessa chan david crane and i believe gene rodriguez Are going to be speaking about the long duration energy storage specific report. So a good thing to check in for tomorrow So quickly on long duration energy storage And we really wanted to look at the importance of domestic manufacture We wanted to really kind of align around specifics with Our goals in terms of looking at a 90 cost reduction for systems That deliver 10 or more hours within a decade. So that's really kind of the focus So with that, um, we did there's just a couple of key takeaways. All of this is included in the report which you can pull down at This address lift off dot energy dot gov So you can see exactly what we were looking at and what we'd love is to have feedback In fact, there is a feedback mechanism You can write notes and send them back and we'll make sure to include them in the next iteration of the report But what we were trying to do specifically was to figure out where lift off might happen related to technology and performance curves And the market Indicators so that when we're talking about long duration energy storage, we're thinking about it in a consistent way All right, so the last thing i'm really going to mention is an exciting partnership that's come together It's an mou that's come together with epri eai and the long duration energy storage council Um, and it's specifically to sort of look at this whole continuum around long duration energy storage So it not only promotes some of the earth shot related goals, but also the pathways And that group is looking specifically at setting goals Sharing knowledge Providing access to things like the lab partnering service and some of the national lab Capabilities as well as to engage with industry again to understand the barriers so that we can help Not only the department, but also industry to unpack those and help move through them With that Those are the end of my comments. Please do connect with me. I'd love to hear from you and I look forward to questions at the end Thank you Fantastic, uh, so now we're going to pivot to the Middle East and we'll have a picture of the Middle East from somitra Hello, everyone. Assalamu alaikum. I thought let me give it a regional touch for my talk And uh today i'm going to present a sort of snapshot of what's going on in middle east And my co-author my senior colleague Professor basim deli has also contributed to this work. So what you are looking at here is A picture of the latest announcement by kingdom of saudi arab the line which is part of Neom and essentially These are two buildings Parallel to each other 200 meter whites 500 meter high And 170 kilometers long So nothing like this has ever been accomplished ever in the world. So this is a major challenging project that Uh, our country has taken upon So i'm going to talk about this a little bit But let's move on I want to uh before I delve into the long duration storage I want to uh mention few unique points about climate in saudi arab and middle east So one of the key point is we still burn about 40 percent oil for our electricity That's for saudi arab in other neighboring countries. We may want more So what happens is the socks knocks and particulate matter are tremendous Uh, uh their emissions are tremendous So we cannot ignore while we talk about the climate change And the co2 and methane emissions and so on so forth And much of these pollutants they form something called Negative climate forcing as you can see over here on this chart and they compensate for the warming So essentially these Pollutants are cooling the climate rather than warming the climate And if you look in the global picture We can see the differences between different countries oacd countries majority of pollution is The methane and the carbon dioxide But as we move on to asia That's the figure changes. So we start having a lot of black carbon also And there are other reasons over here for example middle east and africa We have only 25 percent co2 And 18 percent Methane and a major part of it is a black carbon which is contributing to global warming and as you can see There is a Inner circle which is carved out of it. It is the offset created by negative negative radiative forcing so we can imagine as All these countries improve their air quality the requirements for reduction of greenhouse gases will be way too high And this is a air six report of ipcc that we need to focus on both co2 and non co2 emissions So i'll just move on there is another local factor, which is the dust Essentially half of the dust of the planet flows through sahara desert And over this land mass and it has major impact. It has major cooling impact on the climate Besides many devastating impacts So one of the Research areas I would think would be to understand the interaction of dust with the rest of the climate forces and sea How we can incorporate those things in our in our climate Mathematics And last but not the least I want to mention that now we have these scenarios available Share socio-economic scenarios with representative concentration pathways I would mention the ssp 1 1.9 and you can look up later. I won't go into much details So we do have these profiles available for not only co2, but pm 2.5 and ozone also Essentially all these criteria pollutants and several other pollutants can be grouped into Whether they impact pm or ozon. So if we track the greenhouse gases and pm and ozon We should be able to have a good handle on holistically handling the climate change problem, especially in these reasons So I put together this framework and I'll just go over this Well end goal is net zero plus air quality plus sustainability and health effect It's not net zero alone. It's not carbon dioxide and methane alone And this is where we need to have inventory of not only greenhouse gases, but also hydrogen leaks and also short-lived climate forces that I spoke about Once we have the inventory we can couple these and get the trajectory as I showed on the previous slide of greenhouse gases pm and ozon And then we put together our goals for for climate climate goals And then we go to the share of electricity hydrogen efficiency and storage Infrastructure and then finally we look at the impact of infrastructure on our our climate goals So with this framework, I'll just start delving into the middle east Even within the middle east there is a group of countries we call as gulf cooperation council The total GDP is about 2.5 trillion dollars. These are very rich countries resourceful countries And that's where I showed you neom and there is one other project that is red sea project now CO2 emissions are roughly about seven percent of the global total And there are climate goals which are listed here in the interest of time I will only focus on saudi arab but my presentation will be there and saudi arab has declared that they are going to go net zero in 2060 Now the growth of renewables is extremely slow much of the renewables as we as we call The hydropower or pump storage are countries which have the rivers like iran, egypt and And iraq but other countries are actually struggling to have this kind of storage Now if you look at this, saudi arabia has committed 50 generation 2030 By renewables and rest 50 by By natural gas So that's one important goal. We need to consider and in terms of In terms of the storage There there is a growth in battery both lithium ion and sodium sulfur And also on the thermal side But we are also looking into molecules hydrogen ammonia and sector coupling Now some of the developments in In storage in saudi arabia. I'm just listing here some of the companies where Aramco has invested noon energy is one of them We are going to hear from their representative this afternoon And then in the neon we are building about 536 megawatt 600 megawatt hour battery system And that is sun grow from china, which is going to do that Red sea is another major project another 500 billion dollar investment in this And there is 1.3 gigawatt hour battery first phase is already complete and this is huawei fusion solar So what saudi arabia is doing to tackle the situation and in shulmal shake The minister of energy he laid down the pathway. So renewal energy as you can see 11 gigawatt is projects are under under development And then we want to have 30 percent of kingdoms land and sea covered by Covered green by 600 million trees And then we have hydrogen and ammonia To to support the growth of fuels carbon free fuels And one of the example I will give of carbon capture. We are going heavy on carbon capture This is the picture is from our group from caos And you see caos president and energy minister And this is a 30 30 Ton per day cryogenic carbon capture facility that we are building One of the important thing is the kingdom has announced that they are not going to have any power plant without carbon capture And this has been announced very recently They are going to go big on gas and also go big on oil for export So this is a situation in terms of power gen as I said much of the power today comes from natural gas and 40 percent oil But the oil will become zero And about 323 billion dollars of investment are planned One of the profile that we need to look at in terms of seasonal variation is We have almost double the requirement that we have in winter of the peak capacity So in in summer we need about 35 gigawatt in winter we need about 70 gigawatt So what we feel and this is us Not saudi government as authors we predict and and suggest that natural gas plus ccs fire dispatchable power of battery hybrids and long-term storage and also Hydrogen and energy careers are important in this case and One last thing I want to show here is the roadmap that we put together for hydrogen development And there are four distinct infrastructure paths And hydrogen is coupled with seawater desalination energy storage asset management material recycling and connectivity But blue hydrogen and green hydrogen are going to be the primary paths the kingdom has to take and this picture again from our work Shows the sector coupling and power to x that we are going to do And there is one enabling feature is the 25 ton giga storage that we have For co2 which will enable our blue hydrogen plus we have plenty of geological storage for hydrogen This is one project that our group is doing that we are looking into hydrogen peroxide as the key Renewal energy and oxygen career hydrogen peroxide does not have nitrogen So when it is used at oxidizer in a combustion process the co2 comes clean and concentrated This is one of the great advantages and we are building a whole program around this I saw some of the work in electro catalytic production of h2o2 here We would be very happy to collaborate and my last slide is Just want to summarize that we need integrated solutions for air pollution and gsc Natural gas is going to be the bridge and the backbone for energy transition in our part of the world And long duration storage We believe is the gas turbine is going to be an important important part of any long duration solution. Thank you very much Next we'll have mark give us his thoughts on india and africa mark please All right. Thank you jimmy. So so just uh south asia and uh in africa. So we'll cover that in 10 minutes Um, so i'm just going to give some perspectives especially on the renewables integration challenges in both places And what that means for for storage I'd like to start just by making a conceptual point Which is that it's the energy transition looks very different for geographies That are trying to do what we call a vertical transition versus a horizontal transition essentially Are you trying to dramatically expand your energy supply? As you decarbonize through renewables or in the horizontal case more like the us and in european situation Just trying to phase out high ghg technologies in favor of zero ghg technologies And so the one on the right the vertical transition that the places i'll be talking about today are undergoing It's like going from zero difficulty or well from novice difficulty in your electricity grid to the most expert difficulty Without anything in between because you're trying to Put in all these renewables just from the start and so it's it's challenging grids that already have a lot of challenges So i'm gonna from south asia and africa Just for for ease of thinking about it like obviously there are many countries in those regions And so i just want to single out two so india for obvious reasons its importance To the world, you know, it's it's population But then kenya for sub-saharan africa. It's not the largest country in sub-saharan africa population wise But it's the farthest along in trying to integrate variable renewables So so wind and solar so it's it's an interesting case to to look at because it's hitting some of the sharpest challenges right now with integration And so you can you can look on the left This is just eye data from india And so you can see in both cases wind and solar are on the bottom So this is electricity generation not capacity And so you can see in the indian case coal is the the backup and in general the the Capacity that's absorbing fluctuations kenya has an extremely interesting power mix So so hey, they've added a lot of of solar and especially wind But then beyond that most of their generation is from a mix of hydro and geothermal And then oil fired power is the effectively the swing generation source And just what uh, I was just talking to some kenyan colleagues a few days ago And they really wanted to emphasize Among their challenges what we see in the dark blue with hydro Which is hydro is great for renewables backup But it's also intermittent in its own way just on a longer time scale as you have Cycles of drought and that's something that that kenya at different points has really struggled with Another just high level point that I want to make is because In many of these countries sub-saharan africa there are big pushes for battery energy storage systems But realistically Because of the both the cost of those and then also market design issues It's going to be a while before those are going to have a big impact and just one specific market issue Is if you think about the us for example a big early application for batteries is ancillary services So batteries are fantastic for short response adjustment to to keep the grid regulated And we have we have ancillary services markets that can compensate that and and that kind of You know that that just doesn't exist in in many of these emerging markets yet So as I mentioned with kenya is is really the the rubbers hitting the road with with Integrating renewables. So they'll have times when At night wind might be 40 or 50 percent of total generation. This is their giant wind facility. So lake turcana So 300 megawatts of wind capacity out of a total generation capacity in kenya of about about three gigawatts So this is a huge Kind of concentrate. Sorry keep bumping them like but a huge concentrated intermittent renewable source And so as we think about long-term Long duration storage this will definitely be an issue In a lot of these places But it's not issue number one right now, which is just dealing with massive problems of renewable curtailment Because you you can't absorb the power in the system And just general reliability transmission distribution challenges in in emerging markets So As I thought this was great elizabeth brought this up right now In the vast majority of rich countries natural gas is this very long swing energy capacity Not just electricity but but heating, you know, and so I thought her chart was was great showing gas storage inventory Seasonally, so I just thought it's it's useful to to think about this And and this is a nice Chart from from a paper looking at kenya and senegal and so I'll just direct Attention to the the lower three charts. So on the left it's seasonal variation of of wind The middle is is seasonal variation of solar and then the right is is seasonal variation of the combination given The sites that we have in kenya right now and actually you can see it's kenya is relatively tractable seasonal variation of renewables Kind of problem other places are much much more challenging california We have more like a 2x higher renewables in the summer than we have in the winter senegal, which is the other Country that this paper treated has like a 3x peak to trough Problem so this is going to be as we really try to decarbonize all the way these seasonal variations will be very challenging This is an example. This was a paper for india This is in this case instead of capacity factor. It's plotting wind speed There's a dark blue which is actual and then they this paper was actually modeling How wind and solar will might be expected to change as the climate changes But again, you get into these same kinds of questions You can look like just for me eyeballing it looking at wind on the left and solar on the right It looks like there's some degree of complementarity where where you get places where there's more solar when there's less wind But but it's imperfect and and that's going to be typical of a lot of places So when we come to Long duration storage, this has also been been mentioned by by a few other folks the The incumbent where there's the largest capacity is is Well of any storage in fact is is pumped hydro And so india is significantly Expanding pumped hydro to in part to respond to renewable variations As far as sub-saharan africa goes south africa is the only location with significant amounts of pumped hydro But but there's potential other places. So a place like kenya Once they can start to prioritize a little more thinking about long duration energy storage once they get through Just the immediate shorter term problems with renewable energy integration There's certainly some potential here So I thought I'd end by just sketching out one of many possible visions for For for renewables integration in emerging markets And the first thing I want to highlight is job one and sometimes multilateral banks and donor agencies Don't do a very good job of paying attention to this but job one is All the stuff you need to do just Just immediately to integrate high shares of wind and solar And so in a lot of these places, there's so much more attention needs to be paid to Grid infrastructure. So so transmission distribution is often a big bottleneck But but also kind of you need telemetry you need automated response And and you need grid management capability So I'd like to see a lot more attention to not just how many renewables we can we build But what sort of infrastructure can we put in to ensure that that these grids can manage this this sudden expert level grid management that we're that they're getting And and then number two I don't see any alternative, but for in the the near term at least to develop Probably flexible gas fire generation would I think be the ideal to to manage all these this renewable variability This is probably open cycle gas turbines instead of combined cycle gas turbines You really in this role you want to prioritize Cheap and in very very quick response. So so this is I think going to be just a requirement in the near term But then longer term as we build out gas infrastructure to serve this reliability services function Maybe to serve a Industrial fuels function, which could be cleaner than alternatives That we could think about how do we make this compatible longer term with with a zero carbon Scenario and so you know thinking about okay are these gas fired units that can be extendable to to other fuels Where possibilities for pipeline and other infrastructure to to support something like power to gas And then finally I think maximizing use of pump storage is is going to be important in a lower hanging fruit So thank you very much and look forward to conversation Okay for our final speaker. We're going to have bo tell us about china. Okay. Good morning. Um, so I I would like to talk about china I think it's a critical player in the global ifer to Fighting the climate change. Uh, so first, um, I would like to Share some information About where china is in term of capacity and also What the pledge? The china is making To reach that goal And in Right now in china the total power installed capacity right now stand at the 2,560 gigawatt Uh wind power, uh, which of which, uh, wind power capacity is seven 700 370 gigawatt and solar power is 390 gigawatt And also the country has developed a lot of pump hydro The storage capacity right now have a 60 36 gigawatt that nearly 30 percent of the world total Um and install capacity of other new energy storage Beyond the pump hydro non pump hydro is about 13 13 gigawatt And mostly is the battery storage short duration and Also, uh, the country has developed this concentrated solar thermal Storage, uh with the capacity at the 538 megawatt Of course china makes some pledge, uh in the uh several occasion And the the pledge include by 2025 That will decrease energy consumption per unit of gdp the energy intensity by Six 13 13.5 percent That compared to 2020 and the reduced co2 emission per unit of gdp by 18 percent compared with 2020 And also the non fossil energy share were increased to 20 by 20 percent And the new energy storage non hydro power Will be reached 30 gigawatt And by 2030 a co2 emission per unit gdp reduced by more than a 65 percent Compared to 25 That she and the non fossil energy share will be reaching a 25 percent and total capacity for wind and solar will be a 1200 Gigawatt And also they want to reach a carbon peak before 2030 and by 2060 they will achieve carbon neutrality and share of non fossil energy consumption will be reached 80 percent so And in order to achieve those goals, uh the country Have developed some kind of action plan And that include basically we call is a one plus n The the scheme the program Basically is a one in the total overall plan plus n sectors different sectors plan And that including a green transformation Comprehensive plan of low carbon development and regional planning for promoting low carbon development and promote green production and the consumptions And in the industry sector, uh try to curbing This growth of energy intensive industry iron steel cement those industry and promoting low carbon industry new business new industry sectors and They also promote this low carbon building development And promote low carbon building optimizing building energy usage integrate energy Renewable energy in the building and also Accelerate the building electrification and promoting district heating and cooling system And also for the clean energy clean power system And the energy system create this they promote this Kind of a due control a policy, which is Set up a control limit for both total energy consumption and energy intensity And restricting restrict co-consumption in In the residential sector and also in the In the industry sector And accelerate the non fossil energy and scale up energy storage And also develop some kind of price mechanism mechanism to promote renewable energy And that's including the feeding tariff And also try to reform the power market to make that more competitive And they also have this low carbon transportation system And with all the structure change and promoting energy saving low carbon transportation method vehicle And expanding EV charging and battery swapping network And enhancing fuel efficiency standard for vehicle and ships And promoting low carbon travel behavior and also in improving urban traffic congestion management So in terms of energy storage development Actually they most effort focus on The supply side generator side the source and the source of course with also some growth in the The transmission side and also The annual side for storage They kind of a mandating this annual energy storage development plan in each province So each province have to develop their own plan And Basically in China what happens in the northwest? There's a lot of a curtailment renewable curtailment. So There's a Right now a program developing they call a big In the desert area to develop a big this renewable power base But they want to do this a bundling a bundling the wind solar and a thermal coal and storage together And the province Now is have a Monday this kind of share of a storage in this renewable plus storage project So every renewable project need to be have some storage kind of a percentage That ranging from 10 to 15 percent And also, there's Incentive for renewable energy development A renewable plus storage including you know project approval great connections You know guaranteed utilization hour So and so on and also encouraging the creation of independent energy storage provider That is separate from you know the renewable project And And encourage them to participate in the long medium long term The market and also the small market And also They compensate this independent storage Provider with they call a dual payment scheme Capacity payment and energy payment And they wave the tnd price government fees regulatory fees and a surcharge for those independent storage providers If they are sending power to the power grid And also they are promoting a new business model such as a share energy storage multiple user can use the same same system And also the energy storage aggregation. They build up this kind of a national national level energy storage platform so that it can You can put your system into that the national platform to be aggregated use So now so far there is a 216 energy storage project non hydropower and energy storage project plan Of which 92 percent is this kind of shared a model Finally, I would like to share some information about the long duration energy storage development And First the country is try to promoting those technology That's including a flow battery super capacitors compressed air molten salt And hydrogen storage. So that's basically in their plan is what the try to push for those technology And several projects now underway. That is kind of a try to go in that direction And one is a lead carbon facility in zhejiang province. That's 100 megawatt that's about It's like a 10 hour kind of storage capacity And then the energy vault right now and also there is a kind of a building the first in the world about this 1 gigawatt compressed air energy storage Utilizing abandon coal mine underground abandoned coal mine in shanxi province And there is a 25 megawatt a four hour duration The gravity energy storage as shown in the pictures That is building in shanghai near shanghai That is above can carry four hour storage And And similar program, but it's larger size a two gigawatt hour system to be built in in the mongolia to support this goby desert renewable initiative And They also developed this a solid state Hydrogen storage system that first time they transmit the power between the guangdong and yunnan province And that system really store hydrogen Under normal temperature conditions Through this chemical reaction with Alloy material and so one You know the temperature the alloy alloy material temperature go up The hydrogen released to for use So with that, thank you very much and I'm looking forward to a more discussion. Thank you Okay, fantastic. So, uh, I'll start off with a few moderated discussion questions to get it going and then we'll open it up to the audience q&a So mark We'll start with the develop emerging economies I think it's fascinating that one of the biggest challenges is just integrating renewable energy and making it available with with the grid that's in a very early stage and In these emerging economies, are they thinking about micro grids and then linking, you know, how are they thinking of Progressing through this journey, you know, and then are there elements of what you're hearing today like you can't create generation without storage In china and stuff, you know, how how do you see this evolving? Yeah, no, no great great question. So Looking at the So so there's central grid Approach to things and then there's micro grid approach to things my my own bias in this area is I think just from a technical management perspective Everything related to intermittent renewables is easier to do With a larger grid than it is with a smaller grid just because you're You know, you're you have kind of averaging over space where the usage is you could have a Resource either a load or a storage resource, you know anywhere on this grid And if you have enough transmission, you know, that can help balance the renewables so I think and and so especially given that I tend to think about Energy for can this create jobs? Can this be used for an industrial concern or a commercial concern? Which often you struggle more as you get to the smaller smaller scale I think where the smaller scale has appeal Is that there are places where people feel like institutionally things are so broken at the utility level at the Large grid level that they're thinking. Well, you know if if I am Despairing in Nigeria that I'm going to get reliable power. Well, let's build out either a captive Generation system to just power, you know, certain industry Let's build those things together. So one is kind of top down one is bottom up And and I think just I think micro grids or mini grids have have a lot of Challenges just can you can you make money on them? Can you, you know balance them? But but but I that's where I see the space so I'd love to make the big grids work But I also totally understand where people are kind of despairing Institutionally if can I can I really make this work at a big scale. So yeah fantastic So let's pivot a little bit to the larger established economies now actually in China and the u.s So one of the things that China has and I'm not so sure this is well known is a national grid They have a 3000 miles of auto high voltage That spans from the east to from the west of the east, you know, and One of the questions that I actually have and I may be in comment on this is What would be the things that could be alleviated in long-duration energy storage if we had such a grid and why wouldn't we Necessarily embark on that versus putting in a lot of long-duration energy storage. Do you have any thoughts on that? So do you want me to start on that one? Yeah, all right, so The idea of having a national grid is interesting But we might be further along like we might be past that right. We already have a system of grids Be it as it may not perfect, right? We have certain areas of the country that are actually pulling back So that they're less connected. So i'm not sure that going in the direction of a national grid is um It's feasible right now in the united states, of course that is not like I mean that's not an official statement like I I can actually make a true comment on that But I think that um, there are benefits to having national But I also see that that we're we're we are where we are right now I'd much rather focus efforts on Figuring out what the much like how we've talked about how long-duration energy storage varies by geography I think that our needs vary by geography Um, and I'd much rather see us looking at best practices across the different isos Then trying to figure out how to tie everyone together in a in a system where we're already moving at different speeds, so I'm not trying to exactly answer the question But there are so many like I'm you know, even just the idea of how we would tie it all together at this point seems pretty Pretty unmanageable. Yeah Different needs across the country california is very different than pjm is very different. There's just a lot of differences. Yeah Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for that It's been one of the things that's that's been since dark contrast with a strategy and approach to To to energy and power and transmission So I actually have a question for elizabeth in europe So they're betting all in or pretty heavily in on hydrogen and We know that we've stored huge amounts of energy with natural gas Do these plans? Envision the ability to store hydrogen at that level to to to meet the demands Yeah, in terms of hydrogen goals that are there in place today They really are focused on production and they're focused on uptake in different sectors In particular industry is is the big place where there are stated ambitions for that Given that we in the region have still very small amounts of production relative to The targets and goals that have been set Storage official storage targets are not part of the current frameworks that are there. Certainly as you look forward and I would say Part of the part of the piece that reason for bringing that up is The reason the gas storage peaks look like they do is because of winter peaking energy loads That are in those northern climates and that is a difference. I think especially as we think about electrification We typically think of peak loads coming in august September on the grid and as we transition in I think we're going to get start to get a lot more clarity around What we need where and how some of that shift might look as we go forward, but it's still very early days Okay, fantastic. So mitra. So in the middle east, I think it's One of the remarkable things that there's the oil there, but then there's all the solar That's widely available and in many cases, you know, there are statements made that we could just Put all that solar and you know the amount of electricity available would be enormous out of curiosity when They're thinking about that trade-off in the decarbonization plan Why is there a preferred focus for sort of, you know, Peaker plants with natural gas and stuff out of curiosity. What was the thinking behind that trade-off? Saudi Arabia is a country which is very differently populated. There are three Metropolitan areas which have almost 80 percent of the population and rest of the land mass is very scattered So all sorts of solutions are needed Focus centralized solutions for metropolitan areas and then more decentralized solutions for rest of the areas So, uh, historically the east coast of Saudi Saudi Arabia has been the hub for the oil and gas industry Whereas on the west coast, which is closer to this on this side towards Africa is more Has more solar and wind combined. So the capacity factor of solar and wind combined is almost like 55 percent So that makes this area More suitable where neom is coming where red sea project is coming So this is how and on the on the east coast These are more going to be a natural gas run power plants with with the ccs Okay, fantastic. That's that's a great picture and description of the considerations. In fact within Subregions within the Middle East, right? Okay, so bow It's amazing those numbers every time I see the numbers that are, you know, renewable and in fact curtailment and these other things those are just amazing numbers What do you see as the I mean Professor Steven she was talking about the amount of hydro they were going to be putting in right, which is he said what goes into the next building, right? How do you see um, how do you see the things that china is doing? So this is kind of controversial I just how do you think see the things that china is doing the rate at which they're advancing and other things as potential Lessons learn or best practices in a very different political environment like the u.s So I'm just if you say declining answer, that's fine. I understand that right, but I just curious how you see that Well, I yeah, I think the Although the country has made a lot of plan, uh, you know pushing this forward um, and of course there is a lot of challenge ahead and for example like, uh, uh, you know right now for Uh, the northwest when they send power renewable power, uh, they have to uh, the system have to be set up this abundantly, right? So the coal with the coal is uh, uh, the storage together with wane and solar But the problem with the storage is that it's not It's costly still costly And also is and not meet that requirement So basically what happened is the coal play a bigger role in this supporting So in that sense there could be a you know the locking potential co-locking That prevent, you know, you look at the other alternative So that could be a challenge ahead So that's those things need to be a really kind of a Find a solution to address those Yeah Well, fantastic. I like to open Up to q&a from the audience. You have another people that are very familiar with the various regions around the world So the floor is open. Thank you. Uh, one question for bo for the china update, uh, you shared 95 of the projects are shared In the business value, uh, can you please elaborate like what kind of sharing is happening there and What what's the implication to the business models of energy storage being deployed? Yeah, it's uh, it's 92 percent That's it's kind of the overall new project planned Of which 92 percent is shared Model they use shared model the share model basically is a multiple multiple party can invest To come in to invest and use that the system to share that system So in that sense you avoid some kind of waste For example, if you know, uh, this user does not use that another user can use that. Uh, so that's kind of The share economy model Yeah So actually a follow-up on that. So how do they if if there's over subscription or How do they manage that? Yeah, that's that's a good question. Uh, I'm not sure Is is I think it's a kind of a new model It's still in the in the process being tested and developed it so we don't know what's you know the future what looks like so, yeah Hi, this question could be for any of you, but maybe especially for the Africa and india examples What are the opportunities for regional or local micro grids or mini grids To kind of avoid the need to have a huge regional grid Managed supply and man on a more local basis Uh, yeah, I guess I guess I could come in on that. Um I mean, there's certainly a lot of people working to to try to develop smaller grids and and uh, you know again to me it's Probably makes the most sense where you're having trouble developing larger grids successfully from an institutional perspective Um And I certainly think I mean so just just the trade-off is for Intermittency, right? You really like to be able to have well first the geographical extent, right? You know like like that's a big advantage for china, right? If you have a huge Transmission network because when the sun sets it's not like california where we're sort of in north south state when it sets in one place It sets everywhere So there's just a lot of advantages to So connecting and and but but I think one some people have the model of well Let's make these smaller grids with the idea that we will sort of bottom up connect those and that's not Something where there's a lot of uh existing track record to to look at um But to me it seems as good an idea as any if if you're really running into roadblocks Uh institutionally with with doing something through the central grid A lot of utilities in emerging markets are very troubled. Um, it's not always their fault often It's the structure of how things are priced. It's losses in the distribution network um, so I you know, I'm all for trying to experiment and and I think mini grids are are An example of that and it's just that as with everything that wind and solar makes that expert level versus if you're just doing a diesel mini grid or a gas fired mini grid. Yeah, actually, let me just Take that one step further as Clyde was just speaking managing a very large grid can be very complex It has its own challenges with that absolutely and uh one I hear off in the case that perhaps there's more resilience You know if you link micro grids together as a you know as a as a strategy and I'm just curious if you had any Thoughts on sort of that those kind of considerations. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I you know, I think and there's a there's sort of a long history in um emerging market energy, not just in electricity, but other things as well when you have sort of a intractable Sometimes state directed, you know apparatus that just isn't isn't working That it's also not very resilient. I mean like to your point you can have a central grid But if it's not well managed if it, you know, I mean Nigeria is sort of a classic example of there's There's a big central grid, but your hours of day of reliable electricity is quite low, right? So And and and it's it's it's a fixable problem from an engineering, you know, kind of perspective But it's institutionally really hard because oh you have all the distribution companies that have their Spheres and you have dysfunctional pricing and so so absolutely. I mean, I I think that the experimentation where you think Okay, we're just gonna Side step that a little we're gonna try something else We'll build that bottom up and and maybe you know, there's some model where that starts to To displace some of the dysfunctional top-down Yeah So the the word that we haven't used even at all today. I don't think is risk Yeah, and so I think that what we're trying to do is create a reliable resilient grid Reliability included But this idea of managing risk So when we talk specifically about long-duration energy storage and emerging technologies I mean, we're looking at some 30 different technologies across 80 to 150 companies at any given time Plus the national labs and the universities So I think that there's a diversification that actually is helpful To to make sure that we are as reliable as we can be because I don't know about you all but constituents like to turn on the switch and have the lights come on And so I just want to make sure that we're really thinking about that in terms of managing and mitigating risk Um on the grid whether it's a micro grid or a larger grid or an entire iso I just think We just need to be really cautious Because we have this window of time right now in particular where we I mean, we're running out of time And yet we have this opportunity around funding and financing that's new As well as industry and political will and so testing and Like de-risking technologies right now is very important Yeah, that's a great way to frame it and Speaking of So we've had plenty of blackouts this this year so far actually within even at stanford And so that's one of the things that actually comes Front of mind and in parts of the peninsula here some of the blackouts were up to five days So And you know one can say that that's well, that's an atmospheric river, etc but this climate induced changes that are causing impacts is becoming Much more routine now it seems so that is that is top of mind Well, it's why I got into energy in the first place I was working at home depot and orange county was having the issues And so the fact that we're actually sitting and looking at the exact same things that are happening in california Just regardless of what's happening the rest of the world right is Scary yeah, right that we haven't resolved it yet. Yeah, honestly. I think that long-duration energy storage is our best bet Yeah, I mean it was like There was no candles People were searching for candles Yeah, fantastic any other questions Yes um, I make the opinion from the panel. So what do you think's the most? The final winner of the long duration Energy storage in the market and why just in the end What do you think is the most popular way of store energy? in terms of All the considerations Well, so there's very much That that question at least from my opinion is very hard to answer because of the various differences You know as we found within the panel right now each of the geographic differences and and constraints are are Making some more suitable for one region versus another That's my sense, but I'd be curious for the panel to address that question. So I love that question. Thank you We are looking at all solutions So it's an all of the above approach. I think and so as the as the department We aren't choosing winners on purpose because we have no idea Well, we have some idea But we we don't have a definitive idea about what's going to do the most for the most people at the right times And so the experimentation that's happening right now across all of the different technologies in different areas And in many cases boosted by industry, right? So we need the new ideas and technologies and the boost from industry Because even for the funding that I talked about the somewhere between 350 to 400 billion dollars in funding in the federal government It's only intended to catalyze All of these technologies as many as possible as quickly as possible But it's it's meant to encourage about 23 trillion dollars. If not more in investment So I think that All of the solutions particularly geographically based They all need to be winners If I may chime in on this question This question may look like a generic question But it is very important to answer at some point of time Because we have to look into the back end infrastructure that we have to build To take these technologies forward. I'll give you an example From some of the work we identified three four important pillars Based on which we can answer some of the questions One was Emissions are we handling the co2 and non co2 emissions With those technologies if the answer is yes, great now in our case We are a legacy oil and gas economy. We have trillions of dollars of assets So we can't have them stranded. So we have to have a transition plan So the technologies which help us transition to greener technologies are important Another important factor was are we dependent on supply of critical minerals and materials So are we restricted by supply chain issues? So This I'll give you an example between PAM and Alkaline electrolyzers I would any day go with the alkaline because PAM has certain issues at least at the present. So the same Logic can apply to picking up technologies for for storage also. Thank you Mark Yeah, just just a high level point that maybe I'll add in as well, which is not strictly technological But you know as we talk about A different suitability of different kinds of technologies It's going to depend a little bit on what the Market structure is where you are as well and and when I compare, you know China versus, you know, the u.s. Or california like like I think I mean it was very interesting in bo's talk like sort of how There's this effort to bundle together, you know, like coal and storage and renewables and you know, or whatever the bundling is Is going to be and so that's kind of a good Like china may be in a very good position to build very large scale storage to control it a little bit more centrally or You know couple it with other capital intensive things Other places might be in a better position to build much more distributed kind of small responsive storage You know because if I think about california I think about What you want to do is you want to send kind of price signals to everybody to this is a new paradigm I mean this is no longer the grid Where you just you knew how much energy someone was going to use you all your power plants are controllable Things are going to be extremely dynamic in the future because of renewable intermittency And so, you know, I think here is a place where we maybe have more of a comparative advantage trying Experimentation with storage in people's homes, you know smaller scale things that respond to price signals And that's just not going to work so well at this point in china So, you know that they're different places because of their market structure may have Different kinds of technologies that are most suitable Yeah, I mean that's a fantastic point because given the blackouts Given the blackouts, I think a lot of people that are looking at residential storage. It has really gone up And that's that was already going up during the safety power shutdowns and other things that we're already seeing Fantastic any other questions? I'm going back to the keynote from Tuesday where we talked about or Arun talked about Developing the so-called developing world Places that don't have all established grids and all this sort of thing having the opportunity to leapfrog So mark, you mentioned this vertical Transition thing, but it's interesting. I haven't heard a lot about leapfrogging I like I'm hearing the same kinds of technologies that we've used to establish grids in north america for instance And and so my question is going back to that keynote. Where do you see the opportunities for leapfrogging? in in In terms of moving more painlessly, maybe through these vertical transitions So that we're we're not forcing other parts of the world into the same Path that we've been on and then you know making that more complex. So that's my question I just I I've thought a little bit about that and and I think One thing I would say where we should not expect leapfrogging Is on sort of cutting-edge very capital intensive technologies. I mean like like you're not gonna even batteries, right? Those aren't going to be led by sub-saharan africa and certainly, you know hydrogen economy I mean those are they're just too expensive, you know kind of leading edge But but I think maybe there can be leapfrogging in Systems in some ways like like if we're discovering things You know about how to to better integrate renewables, you know kind of maybe they're more system level things more than like kind of technologies that jump ahead Anybody want to I'll give you an example of The green hydrogen project of neom At that time two three years ago when it was announced. It was the biggest green hydrogen project in the world Five billion dollars four gigawatt So the the inherent technology is involved weren't new But the integration of these technologies at this scale was certainly unprecedented and so I don't think we For solving the climate change problem. We really need to look at our existing solutions also and scaling them up and Not really all the time depend on new technologies or new solutions And actually sorry, I just wanted to add one very specific thing Maybe maybe emerging markets leapfrog combine cycle gas turbine to open cycle gas turbine, which sounds super weird Because combined cycle gas turbine is a more sophisticated machine But open cycle might be better for if in this reliability services role So that's a weird, you know leapfrog that might sound backwards, but to me it's not Okay Last question I haven't heard people talking about using machine learning and artificial intelligence In managing the complexity of all these different dimensions, and I'm wondering if what you're seeing in that respect I can take a little bit at that because in and it actually ties in a little bit to the previous question When we start to think about things like virtual power plants and you start to think about controllable devices Not just say the one way signals that are demand management, but also the ability to absorb excess electricity So where a lot of the computational pieces come into play is around this provision of flexibility services broadly Different locations are more advanced at doing that sometimes the Key is to be able to do the aggregation of small scale elements because in Most markets there is a minimum size And so we're now starting to see tools and techniques to be able to aggregate smaller resources to pull those in And all of these come back to the storage Point because Flexibility actually is the name of the game and for example in The eu I mentioned very briefly this energy market redesign One of the big things there is that Starting in 2025 and then every two years after There needs to be a plan for that has a five-year horizon around flexibility the provision of flexibility and this gets I think also back to some of the questions around technology because Because we're going to be adding so many different types of resources That time horizon gives you a shot at really saying, okay, what is that mix of hardware? How might software help deal with some of this as well? And so that's actually and shout out to bits and wants one of the big things that that's being done on campus as well Bringing in some of not just the the techniques and the applications, but really trying to pull that together from a system perspective I would add to that that we're we're using AI. I think in terms of moving Through the trl levels more quickly so that we're using it for scale up So if you're looking at a new a new chemistry or a new You know 3d model, you know Moving it from something that fits in the size of your hand to something the size of a building is what we can do with AI So that's just another example virtual power plants is also a really good one and this systems of systems approach to New technologies and testing I think From application standpoint, we are looking into application of AI For example, we recently have a project in the steel industry Where there are a lot of scale losses because the oxygen level in the furnace is they fluctuate So if we can monitor those oxygen levels using AI, we can count that tremendously. So I think Uh Integration is very important But looking at specific applications where efficiencies can be increased The fuel consumptions can cut down and emissions can be reduced. This has to propagate To to very low levels and then Have an impact Well fantastic, please join me and thank you our speakers again