 Let's get into it first opening question. If you were on the 2017 Astros, what would your slash line have been? Oh my gosh. We kind of talked about this before like, you just can't quantify how much knowing what pitch is coming helps you, you know? So I know we've done like the home and away splits and some of them are good, some of them aren't that good, which I don't really understand. All we can, all I can think of is a lot of the guys, maybe there were times where they wanted it, times they didn't want it, cause that does happen. Sometimes you'd be like, yeah, give me that pitch. I want to know everything. And there's some guys you face, like I don't need it. So it was for the 2017 slash line that I actually had because that was probably the worst year baseball I've ever played. I have it up here, but I wasn't going to read it. Cause yeah, it's, it's really, it was, it was going to be a bounce back year for me. And then I didn't bounce back. You forgot the bounce back. Yeah. Yeah, I forgot that part. The Astros cheated. The banging is real and all the other stuff for you Astros fans, I don't think it's proven yet. I don't think the whistles are proven. I don't think the eyeliner, the buzzers, they're all just rumors and maybe they didn't happen. But the banging in 2017 is very real. It was banging before pitches. And the only reason you would bang to let a batter know the pitch is because of cameras. Right? Is that like, is there any way that the banging would make sense without cameras? They wouldn't need it, right? It's just, it was too often and too quick for it to be from a generic regular old, I have a tip on you type of thing because it was going from pitcher to pitcher and it was so accurate happen unless you're literally looking at the signs. So we know that that's real. That's like, you can't even, if there's any Astros fans out there that are still questioning, if they cheated and stole signs in 2017 and banged on trash can, you're delusional. Like that happens. Like that's 100% true. So we'll see what happens with that. The other stuff, I thought you said the whistling was proven. I, you know, I read some articles on that. You can kind of get the sound here and there, but it's the definitive proof is the banging. Yeah. Now they're saying like, they were changing the whistling and then there's that charge whistle and a lot of Astros fans said like, no, that dude's a staple in the stadium. Like the broadcast asked them to be quiet. So I'm backpelling a little on the whistling, even though I never was that too deep. I thought for sure it's something, I think the Yankees heard it and they were going into Houston, like listening, like active ears, like let's figure out what they're doing. So, but the banging is real. And then logically, just like deductive reasoning, if you win the world series with the method in place and you think the rest of the league is doing stuff like this as well, well, you're not gonna just morally be like, okay, we're done, you're gonna change the relay system. So their culture has guided them into this type of mindset, like it starts from up top. We saw the email that came out asking the scouts and the events, scouts to do whatever they could to get signed. So it was coming from the top, leaking down to the players. And like you said, you start to have success with something. Maybe you start to rely on it and then all of a sudden it just becomes commonplace and you go from there. So I went to Houston twice in 2000s. I'm pretty sure, we'd have to look this up. I'm pretty sure I went there with both Oakland and Tampa and I do not remember the banging, which now when you go back and look at the games, it seems like how could you not hear that? Yeah. So I wanted to ask you because this is something that me and Jim haven't been fully able to wrap our heads around and we don't know if we're giving too much respect or not enough, but when we thought about this and we thought about the Houston Astros and the players, we're baseball dudes. I don't know. There's something that hurts your soul when you actually hear they were using the cameras and stuff like that. Like that's so not baseball. It hurts. And we were thinking about the guys in the Houston organization and it really was all these young guys that came up through Houston or like Gurriel, that Houston's his only team he knew and you go through the main guy, Springer, Altuve, Bregman, et cetera, et cetera, that we've kind of give them a little bit of a pass just because like, hey, if this is all you know, this is all you know. So I mean, is that where people should be thinking or do you think these guys kind of need to be thrown in front of the bus a little more? I see what you're saying there. Like, you know, you're, oh, hey there. I see what you're saying. When you come up, you're a young guy, like you're gonna listen to who the older guys are. No matter what, like, you know, the ass shows a lot of these teams now, they're letting the young guys, you know, hitting the middle of the lineup, they're letting them kind of do a lot of things that maybe necessarily didn't happen, you know, even five, six, seven years ago where it was mostly veterans making all these decisions. So like, there are teams that do that, but I'm telling you right now, there's no way that one of those guys, those young guys came in and said, like let's implement this. It was definitely an older guy and I think the reports have been saying that as well. I don't want, you can't really necessarily name a name of who it was, but, you know, in my thinking, if I came and, you know, Justin Morneau, or a Josh Willingham type figure for me, it was like, hey, this is what we're doing. I gotta be honest with you, man. I probably would have bought into it. And it's just because they're, they're essentially the boss, you know, like, these older guys on the team, you listen to those guys, you know, you're gonna do whatever they tell you to do, especially your first couple of years, you know, you start to get your identity a little bit later in your career, but, so it's, I do see where you're coming from, but it's definitely still, they're still fault there. You know, they're not, they're not just like, hey, like those guys didn't have anything to do with it because they're young guys. Like they still went along with it and we knew, definitely know what happened in 2017. We don't know about 2018, 2019 definitively, but you gotta let them, you know, wear some of the responsibility as well. Yeah, we, I heard some people say this to me and it's on the same thing, like maybe like these guys actually thought everyone was doing it to this extent. And a lot of Astros are saying, we're not the only ones that are doing this. And a lot of the reporters said, you know, they're not the only team doing this as well, which I believe to an extent, because why are all the fingers being pointed at the Astros if there's more teams that are doing it to this extent? This is honestly just my opinion. I think maybe these younger guys did think, hey, this is league wide. Like we're just trying to do it better than everyone else. So do you think this is league wide? Like I know that teams go to lengths to steal signs. We've seen it with the Red Sox, with the iPad. That was core after we left the Astros. There was something interesting there. The Yankees got fined for misusing their bullpen phone, which every Astro fan has sent me my way, but they didn't use it to steal signs. They just fucking misused the bullpen phone. Is this rampant? Do you think every team is like trying to this extent, top-down operation? I think teams are trying to do whatever they can to pick up on either the catcher sequences, you know, kind of like the regular stuff, like what pictures are doing, where they're coming set and whatnot. I do not think that there are multiple teams using cameras, like a live feed direct to somebody relaying signs. I don't think that's league wide. Is it just the Astros? Obviously you can't say that definitively, but I've now played in five organizations and that's never even come up. So I had a scout reach out to me when that email leaked and he was like, dude, I've been a scout for 20 years. I'm with, he gave me this team and proved he was a scout, he asked me to stay quiet, but he was like, that email is fucking crazy. That is not normal to ask scouts to help install cameras or binocular spots. Old school, yeah, scouts do not want any part of that, you know, like. Yeah. You can argue that the new age type of front offices, the guys, I don't wanna, you know, categorize guys just as Ivy Leagueers, but, you know, those kind of front offices coming in, you know, you have like the Wall Street guys type numbers type guys, you know, maybe they don't have that type of love for the game or the history of the game. So it could be more of like, these guys come in and say, this is, we could win like this and this is gonna make us better and implement it, that's kind of what happened. And if that's the case, then you kind of gotta look around the league because there are a lot of these front offices that are built the same way now. Yeah, dude, it's crazy. I have to ask you this because people will tell me, why didn't you ask? But I hate when people ask me this, so you can give whatever bullshit answer you want. What do you think the punishment should be? Yeah, that's a tough one. Yeah, I thought about it a lot. I think if it comes back and it's a 2017 thing where it's like, hey, this is isolated to this year, I think that you can do the draft picks if it's one, if it's two. I think there's gotta be some suspension of their manager and possibly the general manager. I think those are kind of, I think everyone's almost like an agreement with that. But if it extends to 2018 and 2019, then I think we gotta start talking about, something a little bit different, possibly a postseason ban or something like that. Yeah. Something, it's crazy if you say one year, I get it, you did this thing and maybe MLB got wind of it and you shut it down. But if you start doing it for multiple years, I think there's gotta be like a huge punishment because they're trying to deter other teams. That's basically, I think all you want, all I want, is you just, all we want is just the game to not have this anymore. It's terrible for the game if every time someone hits a home run or they're on a pitch that we think like, oh shit, maybe this team's doing it too. My thing is, at this point, I'm so fed up with the Astros fans coming at me every single day that if the MLB comes out and said, we did a full investigation, we are 100% positive they cheated, I'll be like, fine, that's punishment enough for me because you guys can't say dick to me anymore, shut up. I just think they need to make it harsh for the future, right? So I don't know. But what is that though? Like what's harsh? Yeah, I mean, Jake said this once and it kind of sounds hot takies, but like, if they did it for three seasons, it's a fucking ban hinge. Look, I mean, on the table, I guarantee you that's on the table, not only hinge, but the front office as well, like they're looking at, it's not just a suspension bans. Yeah. So I've heard like, Luna's gonna step down and be blackballed and then hinge might be suspended. But if it's a three years, if everything that's alleged comes out to be true and who knows, the buzzers, they seem crazy enough that maybe I hope they're not true because that's fucking terrible. But if those come out to be true, they need, it needs to be big. What do you do with the players too, then? You know, like... Dude, I don't know, I don't know how you handle the players. Because I don't know how you handle the players. I don't think you can do that. But I think if you ban hinge, no one cares. He's not, like no one cares besides hinge and his family and friends because he's not fucking Pete Rose, Hall of Famer. He's not Shula's Joe Jackson, who was one of the best players in the league at the time. You know what I mean? I know he's well respected before this, but... I understand what you're saying. It's pretty easy to do. And same thing with the general manager. Like, you know, no offense to either of those guys, but, you know, if you're at the helm, you got to take responsibility. I mean, they say it after every loss. Oh, I got to wear this one, this one's on me, whatever. Well, now you're getting accused of something, you know, that's game changing. Like history is going to remember this if they get convicted, you know, maybe forever, you know, at least big point. It's a big story. If this is, if it's all true and they get in trouble, this is the Astros identity for like 20 years. Like they would have to, it'd be a long time before the Astros aren't known. You think they care if they take a World Series title away. Just say this, hey, we're going to strip them of this title. Like, obviously you don't get to hang the flag. None of these guys, I mean, ask you, do you think these guys get to call themselves World Series champions? Not publicly, like in even fans, like you're not going to brag about it because everyone's just going to respond and be like, well... It's the scene from Semi-Pro. It's what's his name on the back of the bus and he turns to Monix and he goes, yeah, ride in the bench like a bitch. Like it's going to be like, you guys, like I think when you guys said players like, no, I think these players are going to have stink on them for life, like that's their punishment. Like, and I think the other thing, Trevor, I'm not saying this to hit your core, but baseball is a young person's sport. I mean, the only time we've really seen old dudes thrive in baseball was the steroids era. Baseball is a young person's sport that like, you know what, Springer, he's going to hit free agency next year. And you know, Bregman's going to, Altuve's getting older and he's got a small body. Like look what happened to Padrella. Like baseball falls off quickly and I think these guys' careers are naturally kind of start going downhill and everyone's going to say, oh yeah, it's a lot tougher Springer when you don't know what bitch is coming on. And I think that's what they're getting. They're going to get that for, you know, the next 10 years. However long they play, that's all anyone's ever going to say to them. The funny thing that I think about with this situation is they paid a lot of these guys, right? Yeah, that's the weird part. Like when a seven-year, $100 million, is that what it was, something like that? Yeah. It turns out they were cheating for three years of your like reference on him. Like that's not a very smart, you know, business move for you. Like you maybe don't know what this guy's like without. And I'll say this, I think he's a hell of a player and I don't think he needs the pitches. I think he's that good. But I mean, you're basing what you're paying this guy of what he has done for you. And maybe Bregman says, hey, I'm going to rat you out. Pay me my money. I mean, look dude. It's such a, like there's so many caveats with this situation. I mean, we just tend to talk about the cheating and then what's going to happen to the organization or what are the punishments going to be? But like stuff like that, like players who aren't that good or we're on the team for a little bit, I think if this comes out, you're going to start seeing more and more people just come give little bit more tidbits of information here, tidbits of information there. And we're going to start to see the whole picture. Like there's no doubt about it. Apparently the MLB offered like amnesty to any player that was on the Astros that comes out. Like you won't get in trouble, but... They're going to have people lining up for their amnesty. I promise you that because they don't, no one wants to deal with this. I mean, if you get suspended as a player, I mean, these guys are making big money and you're going to lose four, five, six, seven million dollars. What about this punishment that I thought of the other day? What if on opening day 2020 for the Astros before the game starts, they have to take down the flag in front of the full stadium and then they have to put up a flag that says 2017 cheated and they have to slowly pull it up and then they do the national anthem. Then they start the 2020 season. That's pretty good punishment. That's really bad. And the camera crews, they have to scan the entire audience as the, it's got to be picture in picture. The flag going up and they just need to scan all the Astros fans faces, watching the cheated flag go up. And then I'll make a breakdown of all their faces. They should do that anyway. Go to catch buddies so often. If it's like proactively, they did that at the start of 2020, just like drop the flag down. Oh man. They all had their rings and like gave the box back. Yeah. They just all had to open up their hands and then one by one, a guy walked down and like a few lashings, like a guy behind that with like a snack. Yeah. Shame. Shame. But there was no, they would do that. They'd start proactively prepare. That's pretty good though. I don't like that one. Joe Tori taking all the rings off the players as a pretty good image in my head.