 Good morning Morning, so it's like about 9 30 a.m. Here, so it's like 3 30 a.m. Back where I'm from in Jersey as Alex said Alex now lives where my hometown is of Brooklyn, so it's all the same area, and it's 3 30 a.m. So this is like the party hour or so Thank you so much for having me So Really excited to be here at full-stack fest. This is my first time in Barcelona It's been really beautiful so far even despite the jet lag When they asked me to keynote and the funny thing about keynoting is that you don't really tell anybody what you're talking about So none of you have any idea what I'm going to talk about But I want to speak to the theme of the conference so the motto is problems of today wonders from the future and The speaker hand, but they gave us was the goals We want to inspire people to try new things, which is pretty cool But like trying new things sounds like obvious like shouldn't we all want to try new things? Why should we have to be inspired? And that's because there are a lot of problems of today That combat us from being inspired to try new things and so thinking about that The the motto like trying new things would be the wonders of the future and The problems of today would be the barriers that are blocking us from trying those new things And some may interpret problems of today is like how to build a performant single-page client-side javascript web app, which is a problem of today But that is sort of intertwined with more of the social issues in the tech industry today And they're all sort of things that can lead to technical problems and many of us prefer to focus on things like performance But then we ignore things like accessibility that plays in line So these are the problems of today and they don't make for a nice t-shirt Even in cuter colors So how do we solve these problems? So that we can actually try new things all of us in the industry and who want to be into it I Don't know talk over I Think I think so like I can't solve all of these issues and neither can you individually But I think all together we can work on it And I think the first part is bringing awareness to it and admitting that these social problems exist And we're all engineers or most of us are engineers or people who are interested in using code to solve problems And so the first part of a problem is Specking it out finding the requirements Designing a plan and then implementing it and then testing Maintaining scaling and so forth and we can apply software engineering principles to social issues as we should And so we bring awareness to things by talking about it or if you're from Brooklyn like me talking about it And we could be more aware of everyone when we're designing and building software both for fun and for work So what I want to talk today talk to you today about our two products that I work on and how I think of these issues as we're working on them and It's both like a product that people they're both products people can use But one is my passion project my hobby and the other one is my job And I think that a lot of us who here is like passion projects or side projects Okay, and who here is working on a product that more than five people are using probably yeah So we all sort of fall into an envelope where we're building different kinds of things of different kinds of users Are we thinking about all of those users when we're building them? Even if it's not something we're being paid to do like a side project So my name is Jen Schiffer As Alex had said I come from New Jersey. I live in Jersey City It's a small north Jersey town across the river from Manhattan So it's like really really close some people jet ski from Jersey City Manhattan Which I think is weird because the river is kind of gross, so I won't do it, but it's very close If you're here tomorrow Steve Kinney the first speaker he too is originally from New Jersey So this is the Jersey takeover of Barcelona. I'm so sorry I Run a meet-up called Jersey script where we casually meet at a bar arcade on the last Tuesday of every month So if you're ever in the New York City area, and you're there during the last Tuesday of every month Please hit me up on Twitter. We would love to have you come and chat We don't do talks. We just hang out and socialize and it's really fun And I also co-MC Brooklyn JS where we do have talks. We're on the third Thursday of every month So again, if you're ever in New York at that time, let us know. We would love to have you So this is me about 15 years ago Well, no, it's a little later than 15 years ago. This is maybe about like eight years ago This is me at my first tech conference ever. I was having a blast. There's a chocolate fountain What are the speakers told me at the speaker dinner yesterday that they were out of there's like a fancy wedding They're going to and there's a chocolate fountain except the chocolate is gilded. It's gold And I was like, whoa, there's a chocolate fountain my talk, but it's not gold And I didn't have time to photoshop it to gold. So next time But before I entered tech I worked in academia. I went to college about 15 years ago I got two degrees my bachelor's and master's in computer science And then I became a department administrator in that computer science department where I did curriculum planning I did recruiting all sorts of fun bureaucratic stuff and I got bored and kind of tired of the sexism in the in that area and so When you get bored and tired of Bullshit that's going on and you want to try new things you think of a way to move on and so I did I Became a web developer at the NBA the National Basketball Association In about 2012 this is my former co-worker Luke He's really young and he's a good genius with what statistics and so I always like to leer over and watch him doing magical stuff with spreadsheets and and Helped him learn our so that he can program more stuff Which is pretty cool And it's at the NBA where with my good friend Nick. We started a CSS perverts, which is a Satirical blog about tech culture specifically web development, which nobody was really doing at the time It's kind if you've ever read the onion or any satirical things. It's like that but worse And so I was bored and frustrated at my job at the NBA and when I get bored I go to try new things and so I tried writing I left the NBA to go into consulting for a few years at this small company called Boku And then after three years I got bored of that and I wanted to try new things and that's where I ended up where I'm at today Which is that Fog Creek? So Fog Creek is a company headquartered in New York City. It's about 17 years old We've been making content and software to help developers do their best jobs with the best tools for a long time I use this digraph to explain Fog Creek because you probably use some of their products We co-created Stack Overflow who hears you Stack Overflow Anybody who codes right and we created Trello, which is now owned by Atlassian nice people We have Fogbugs, which is like the first bug tracking software ever And it all started from the co-founder of the company Jules Balski's blog Joel on software who here reads blogs So what we're currently working on right now is a product called Glitch that's at the end of this digraph here And Glitch we call it the friendly community where you'll build the app of your dreams But and this is this is our team. I love this photo We had our off-site in Cabo a couple of weeks ago and this is my co-worker will photo bombing the glitch team That's us there. It's me in the center And The team is really great. We've been working on Glitch for a while. We've launched under the name Glitch back in February I've been there for about seven months But by the time we had launched I had already built the app of my dreams before Glitch even was like an idea And about eight years ago that was make8bitart.com. I Was bored when I was an academia and I wanted to become a web developer, but I didn't know JavaScript. I was writing Java I was training Galaxy collision simulators and Java and Rubric generators and forums and PHP and I wanted to build cool fun stuff on the web and learn at the same time and Because new future ideas to me back then were JavaScript and the HTML 5 canvas API I decided to learn JavaScript and fulfill my other, you know future cool idea, which was quitting academia To be in the tech industry And so yeah, the app of my dreams was an in browser pixel editor where I can make art for free Portably and I can learn how to build web apps so that I can one day get paid to both make art and Build web applications and spoiler alert. That's what I do today Because at the end of the day I want like if you asked me and my CEO and Neela's asked me like What do you want to do when you grow up and I what do you want to be when you grow up? And I'm like, oh, I just want to like be happy and hang out with my friends Like that's who else wants to just be happy and hang out with their friends for the rest of their life Wouldn't that be a dream? So I spent a lot of my time trying to work on products and teach people and talk to people and learn from people so that the opportunities I have today that allow me to Be happy and hang out with my friends and do cool stuff. I want those opportunities to be open to everybody But they're not because of these barriers to entry like I mentioned before And it's very hard to get into the industry today Well, it's not hard to get in it's it's easy to find tools to learn But there's a sort of gap between the beginner just learning the code and the expert who Knows how to build a web application. There's sort of a lack of stuff in between both in terms of like learning materials and also just mentorship and like guidance from one end of the bridge to the other and Those are the problems of today that Are blocking us from using those wonders of the future to build cool stuff? Now I didn't enter the industry until about five years ago. This is the day Of my interview at the NBA and they immediately made an offer and I was at a bus stop waiting for my bus And I was really excited so I took a selfie So I didn't enter the industry until I was 27 about five years ago. That's pretty late to enter tech these days and Being a white woman in America I have a lot of privilege to enter and stay in the industry, but still it was very hard for me And so my barriers are a lot lower than others, but they still exist So I want to talk a little bit about like why it takes so long for some people to be able to get into the industry Let alone stay in it. So my main barriers entry were money Learning is very expensive. I ended up using what little of my savings I had because I was broke I was a graduate student. They don't really pay graduate students all that much I Just made whatever I left of my savings to go to Boku for a JavaScript workshop And it was super intense and I probably didn't learn all that much because there's so much happening all at once It was definitely not the level that I should have been at but I just wanted to go somewhere and talk to people Software is very expensive People who make pixel art are like use Photoshop Photoshop is expensive If your job gives it to you, that's great. I'm not really into pirating software But who here hasn't pirated software before because a lot of it's very expensive. So not and also not all people of credit cards You know, there are a lot of services that are free But in order to create an account you have to enter a credit card And there are a lot of people at least in the United States that don't have credit cards So that's a huge barrier to get people to Be able to use some sort of service or software Another barrier for me was time time is very expensive There are some people who have families and then there are people like me who had like three jobs to sort of sustain my Graduate school work and I was living on my own I Didn't have a family to pay for me and some people do and that's like really great again. That's another form of privilege but You have to think that not everyone has the time to like sit down and double down and read like a book about JavaScript And then move on from there timing is a huge issue and So also culture was another thing the factor of the matter is in this industry You have to basically look a certain way and looking at the audience I'm sure you all are very nice but a lot of you look a certain way and that has gotten you pretty far and a lot of other people have to work even Harder and have to pretend in order to be acknowledged in some sort of way when I worked in academia I went by JJ in my email so that I would get responses because when people saw Jen There didn't take me seriously and that's just literally an experience of mine that has happened and cannot be taken away from me So I always think of that when I move on to other places and so Tech culture today not only has issues of misogyny and you know all those other sort of stuff is that We have these fake ideas that I love to talk about fake ideas fake ideas are Ideas that are not real, but we say them in order to project our insecurities onto other people I have said these fake ideas. I used to be an educator I used to teach these fake ideas and I'm trying to bring awareness to them by talking about them and admitting that One of those fake ideas is that building for the web is easy. It's simple You could just do it just throw together all this sort of packaged JSON Files and throw in like all that other stuff and then you're good to go and MPM install and walk away and get a coffee for a Half-hour and then come back and all those sort of stuff like that That's a good fake idea. I am self-taught I Told people I'm self-taught, but then when you say that you're self-taught you sort of Forget that there is someone who has helped you along the way be it someone who's written a book that you read Or someone who has guided you in some sort of way I Went to a lot of college. So I definitely wasn't self-taught Everything is going great all of the time Coding has never made me cry ever These are all very fake ideas and the problem with fake ideas Besides them being fake We have to all be real to ourselves is that they raise those barriers of entry into web development Into the web development industry raises them a little bit higher because a lot of people are looking in they're like I'm interested in this field and everybody's like this is really great It's just so easy sobbing at the same time like it's not a space that anybody wants to enter And especially if you're like a woman like we deal with enough stuff just Existing in the world. Why would we want to compound that by entering an industry where there's even more stress? And you have to work even harder to prove yourself and this falls in line with the issue of inclusivity and diversity Because when you have a lack of Diversity inclusivity on a team working on your product. There's a lack of products that work for everyone And there's also a lack of products that are actually created to solve problems We have I mean how often have you heard about a new startup and you're like Who's gonna use that and then it fails like six months later, and you're all like I could have told you that was gonna happen That's not a real problem that society has a real problem society has for example Is that there are a lot of cities even in the United States that don't have clean water? How can we how can we use technology to give clean water to people all over the world? Like it blows my mind that we're not using our resources for that. I'm not gonna list Startups that I'm thinking of in mind, but like there's plenty of things out there though Those aren't problems that we need to solve. They're more impressing issues And if we had more diversity in companies building products and coming up with these ideas and getting funding Then I feel like we would be solving a lot of actual problems faster And again, I think we need to bring awareness to these fake ideas and talk more about real ideas like Building for the web is kind of hard Especially as we're moving things more from server to front-end and now we're trying to do things back to server side As we realize that maybe building all of our apps in the front on the client side is a little slow and not performant We don't learn it alone as I mentioned before There's always somebody out there has created some sort of tool to help us Just like we are not born knowing how to code there needs to be some sort of environment that nurtures that and so We have to be aware of making sure that people who feel like they're alone shouldn't be alone and help those out Our tools are far from perfect. I don't think anybody would disagree with me on that Which is why I think who here for like their main gig builds tools for developers Yeah, I think like a lot of people do and and it's because they're far from perfect and also we're human we have to think about those barriers and Software is for humans humans are using it in some sort of way And so we have to remember that when we're making decisions both about who we're putting on our teams who we're hiring What we're building for and so forth So I think that we should think about barriers to entry when building and designing products Both hobby and professional Because both your side projects and your professional work Are important and probably and hopefully used by humans and I don't think that regardless of whether your side project makes money or not I don't think that capitalism should be a factor in how we combat social problems in our work And so my hobby is make a bit art calm and my professional product Fog Creek with my team there is glitch calm and regardless of their differences in beginnings There are a lot of parallels in the product's missions I think that's why the team we get along so well as we have the same idea of like solving problems And thinking of others and that's because we sort of shifted our focus from what We individually need to a bigger picture of what's best for all of us and that's Basically anybody who wants to make stuff And that could be developers non developers There are people who use code to solve problems who aren't developers just like I fixed my toilet once, but I'm not a plumber You know, so it's like a perspective to think of and we do that by sort of focusing on both Tools and community because I think those are the two pain points in the industry is that our tools aren't that great and Neither is our community Tools I think are the easiest part. It's just software Any level of developer artists like fresher experience in a nutshell Wants to primarily do two things and that's the first thing is make something who here likes making things Cool, that's like sort of we want to try new things make things. That's why we're all here So years ago, I wanted to make pixel art in the browser for free I didn't want to pay for Photoshop It's just a lot of software to do like a small very lo-fi thing Photoshop otherwise is great. So I made a pixel art editor in the browser for free Well, I made it free and that became make a bit art, which was a lot uglier back then And that's basically it I wanted to make something and so I did and it took a long time because I was kind of by Myself I used the internet and read a lot of blogs about CSS because I was new to CSS PHP developers typically don't do like styling and Yeah, and and the hardest part for me wasn't making the software it was figuring out the problem I need to solve when I wanted to learn something And if that's hard for you to finding out like a project to choose to learn something I really highly recommend art. There's just so much creative stuff out there that you create recreate using code and it's a great sort of foundation for learning With glitch we wanted to foster app building and learning like in the browser And we also wanted to think of the socio socioeconomic diversity of like there are people who don't have credit cards that so do we want to like Make people pay to use it and and so forth And so the team built a web IDE Let's see if this is gonna start playing No, so we built an ID Or code editor that works in the browser. You can build static apps or you can build full stack node apps And much like make a bit art and myself. It's very cute looking And it's also very powerful much like myself So the great thing about building code in the browser is that it's very portable This is what's great about JavaScript when I was teaching Java You had to teach students how to set up a JVM Java virtual machine And then if they built something in the computer lab and then brought it home It usually didn't work at home because they usually didn't have the JVM on their home machine But with JavaScript all you need to do is a browser This is like blowing my mind as an educator back then and so then the idea when all these sort of code editors In the browser came out. It was like, oh great now We don't even have to like teach students how to install like J grasp or eclipse and stuff like that At home. This is just like a portable thing that they can do and this is what's great about JS fiddle and codepen and glitch and so forth We also because we don't learn alone on some of us pair program like I do with my cat Jeffrey there It is a multi-user editor. So multiple people could go in at once and Program together We support node, but because you basically get a container or a VM you can use kind of any language We've mostly focused on node and I really like how we use library stat.io to Search and add packages to your package JSON file or if you just type it it will like add it in there I think that's pretty fun and we really like people using APIs with glitch and it's really powerful for that And we also use it too on our end So like once you make something you want to show something off This is the great thing about making art with code is that a lot of people appreciate art Not a lot of people might appreciate your npm module that counts How many seconds have passed towards a certain point? Developers may appreciate it, but like my grandpa might not and so art is a great way to enter that space But you also want to show it somehow with make-a-bit art We basically just use social media People email me all the time that they've like there are people who've made games using make-a-bit art There are kids who use it I love I was going through tweets for screenshots of this and I started to cry because that was like one super jet lag It was just very nice And with glitch we also provide a way for people to showcase the apps that they're making that you can view the source Remember viewing source Who here's learned viewing source of other people's websites? You can't really do that today because we obfuscate all of our code Behind like JavaScript frameworks and build processes and sometimes we'll put some sort of source map up there But with glitch you can not only view the client-side source, but you can also view the node source Which is pretty great Viewing source on the server side. That's new 2017 And Yesterday we launched user profile pages like maybe like right before we went to the speaker dinner last night I was like on slack. This is how I typed and So we launched user profile pages so you can show off Your favorite projects you've created and worked on lately I've been working on a lot of starter apps for people to get into something Like if you wanted to get started with HTML I have a starter HTML app and you can sort of clone it and work on it But the important part and bonus to all this is Owning your work. I think owning your work is one of the most important things for me as an engineer and also as an artist With glitch when you when you build a product in glitch if you build a product make it but are you own it? You're using the platform, but we're not sort of tying you to any certain philosophies on how to program with make 8 bit art Yeah, you have to draw a pixel art. It's a pixel art editor But you can lower the pixel size to one and draw as if it were MS paint But at the end of the day make 8 bit art you can save your images and you own them I don't own anything people email me asking if they can use it. I'm like, yes Go ahead and use it with glitch you can like export your projects as a zip file or export to github And it will work if you deploy it on basically any node server and it just works and that's great Because I don't want people to use something that I'm making and then me have any ownership over it This is just I think whenever you're Using a new tool on your team or for any of your side projects You really need to make sure that like what you're putting into it is all yours and you can get it back in some sort of way And Ownership is overall like a big theme in the open source community who here is involved in open source in any way Whether you consume it or you give back to the community I think it's really important to ask yourself when you're building products. Am I consuming open source? If I'm not why not and if I am how am I giving back? make 8 bit art is a It's an open source project Anybody can go and make a PR or At an issue or feature requests and stuff like that. It's on github. I Have about 12 contributors and one of my things is that when you? Create a feature for make 8 bit art and it gets merged you become a committer I just like give you commit access and I trust you and I feel like the more that we trust ourselves in these smaller projects The best and because of that make 8 bit art is a lot faster, especially the paint fill tool There's a lot of math that goes into pixel art whether you like it or not With glitch glitch the product itself is not open source But we facilitate the creation of open source apps and glitch calm the the website and is itself an open source app If you're interested in listening to me from a few years ago Talk for about 45 minutes about my philosophies on open source Specifically how sometimes it's very lonely and aggro. You can check out my talk from Thunder Plains JS I basically talked about how I built make 8 bit art and Develop it with the idea that most of my users are not developers And so for example with make 8 bit art. I commit my build files I don't require you to download the project or clone the project and then run MPM install because some people are Downloading it and they don't have node on their computer So if you want to check that out, it's called your grandpa may not have no And if so all if he does all the power to him But the hardest part tools are easy is community So the community The questions I get from them working as a community engineer and glitch is like what do I make like I don't know what to do as I mentioned before usually like I Looked towards art for inspiration And you could look towards like new things and you you might be like oh, I want to try this cool New thing, but I don't know what I'm gonna make with it. I hear this all the time With make 8 bit art. I was learning software Using art and then I sort of a few years later flip the switch and was like I want to learn about art like Using software and so I created vart of art Institute, which is a site where you can See me talk about fine art that I learned through studying it and also I've made little JavaScript apps that either build inspired generative Versions of fine art or art facilitating tools that allow you to create your own And so that's like a thing that is now people I see a lot of people doing now They're taking artists like Joseph Albers and encoding versions of his homage to the square Like if you see a piece of art that you really like think how can I digitize this and it's a good small like time box way to Learn some sort of web thing and if you have an idea like oh, I want to do something with react Like how can you incorporate react into an art app? With glitch we want to be a source of inspiration For making anything in code and so we showcase the things that you make on our site We have lots of categories like building blocks. Hello worlds Oh off is like a thing that who here loves to roll their own oh off on every project I don't want to see anyone raise their hands no one So imagine going to glitch calm and going to building blocks and finding a bunch of all off apps Implemented that you can then just remix and build on top of no one has to do all off again. You're welcome I love taking credit for that But yeah, you can like instead of writing a bot from scratch you can see an existing bot Remix it and then have it going on your own account in like a minute And glitch.com itself as I mentioned is an app you can go down and view the source of it and you know as soon as you Remix a project or create a project it auto deploys You don't have to worry about DevOps Which is a huge barrier to learning how to code because you might have like your first index.html file And then you're like, okay, how do I get this on the web and when students ask that to me? I'm kind of like oh, that's like a whole other like two semesters like of teaching So glitch takes that barrier down by auto deploying all your apps if you've remixed an app You get a new URL which you can change it deploys as you edit it which is pretty fun Because we don't learn alone. We always want to think of a way that we can allow our users to get help When we were younger and when I was younger I was always hesitant to raise my hand to ask for help and I was also hesitant to raise my hand when I had the answer So I'm always thinking like Why isn't there a space online like where we can do that and the team has sort of created that with glitch Where if you're having issues you can sort of highlight your code snippet and you can ask the community for help and It's Asking for help and like helping is like a chicken and egg problem people want to help But they're not sure if they're like overstepping their boundaries So we're trying to think of ways and again, this is beta we're trying to think of ways to facilitate that sort of relationship and If you're more advanced and you want to help we built it on glitch.com where you can see people who've asked for help and if You go to their editor, they'll say like oh I've asked for help at a certain point and Then they can let you in and If they help you out because against a multi-user editor, they can remove you the project or thank you Every project has a dot ENV file that you put your secrets in and if someone goes into the project to help you They still don't see your secrets So it's still secure and someone remixes your project that has secrets. They don't get those secrets And if they help you and they thank you you the person who helped them see little hearts over your icon Which I think is really cute I Think that feeling good and like getting positive reinforcement is really important in our industry especially with all the negative feedback the internet tends to give us and so if you're building a tool where feedback Can be part of that you should build that into it Just like the ability to thank someone or be like great job is is really cool github sort of out of this Maybe like a year or so ago where it was beyond like just doing thumbs up you can add the celebration emoji and stuff like that but we can take it even further because It's just it's nice to be thanked once in a while. I think And I feel like these cute celebrations are great for people of all ages and levels of dev experience I mean who here regardless of your age likes fun celebrations Yeah If we're gonna sit in front of a computer all day We might as well be looking at something fun and happy even if the code itself is not necessarily fun and happy Because having fun. I think it's a major bonus for being a developer if you can get done so With make a bit art I showed I had a kiosk at the game on 2.0 exist in Toronto This is my first art show I was in And there are kids that were using it and making their avatars and they were smiling and again I'm gonna cry it's so fun and and because make a bit art is open source People can take that source simple how to hackathon and one of their developers I think she was a support person and now she's an engineer Incorporated make a bit art into their support software They couldn't have done that if Mickey a bit art was an open source because they couldn't build it in like a day So that's super fun and cool. They have the lyrics to shaggy's angel up there in case you're a shaggy fan And also like Make a bit arts source code has dinosaur ascii are in it which is pretty rad And there have been a lot of parents who said that their kids have gotten excited about it because they're like Oh, you can do that in code. You can put drawings and stuff like that. I feel the same way And because we tell people that glitches the place to build after their dreams We see a lot of fun stuff. It turns out a lot of people have really great dreams You can have fun while working on cutting edge web technology This is an a-frame project tomorrow there's gonna be a talk about a frame so stick around and this is a glitch app and a frame their education materials they use glitch a sort of a platform because Again, all the features that we have right now are free and those features will remain free So it's really great for education and just building really awesome VR experiences Could you imagine five years ago if there was VR in the browser? That's why when we talk about performant client-side apps It's like if we can do this in the browser, we really should be able to do anything And if your project's not private you can allow people to remix them which leads to a lot of fun One of my favorite projects Glitch projects is by this guy Dan Reeves He made this thing called face moji where it's using cutting edge a chrome browser technology I think I think it was chrome. Yeah chrome canary technology to Detect your face and add emoji pieces to it and I fell in love and I knew being me that I can make this even creepier So I remixed it and added my own face pieces to it And then here's Dan with my face pieces on him And it was as soon as I remixed his project and it auto deployed So people are able to use it and then I just had to add my assets to it So it took me about two minutes And then my friend Ben made it even creepier by remixing it and adding the mouths for eyes. So So, yeah, the the Features and like making it part eight make a bit our English and the things that I work on on the side as well I try to think of making them low cost or having some sort of free features again thinking about socioeconomic diversity Make them portable time-saving and community focused Which makes a much nicer looking t-shirt, I think Especially in that color I might buy it So I want you to go away today just remembering that that software was made for humans We can use code to build tools But we have to focus on the community because that's the hardest part Because we want to lower barriers to get more people into the industry and to stay in the industry because we're ultimately going to build Better products and have more users That way you want your users to be diverse So you want the people who are building those projects to be diverse and reflect our user base it just seems like a non-issue to me, but it happens to be one and We want to make making things easier, but we can't do alone. We all have to work together We all have to have conversations about these things of conversations with people that don't look like us. I Also want I also think that make apid art is a great case study for open source in a world of both developers and non-developers And it wouldn't exist without my contributors and my users who simply want to like try new things and use future things to do that For glitch if you work at a company that has an open API you want people to use it get in touch with us because we want to help You inspire and get people to try your new things so in conclusion Problems exist we should talk about them Unapologetically, it's very hard to get on stage in front of 550 people in a foreign country if I can do it any of you can We could use code to solve those problems as we should it's most of our jobs to do that And use your voice to solve those problems as well by having those conversations Aim to inspire We want to get others to try new things and obviously it's hard for a lot of people to do even though the phrase Try new things sounds like an easy thing to do. It's hard work You could be met with harassment loss of work and a lot of stress take my word for it But it's really important to work hard I think that taking the path of most resistance Makes that path easier for the people that are behind us And so there's two people kinds of people in this industry those who take that path of most resistance and those who pull up the ladder Behind them don't be the one who pulls the ladder up behind them. It's not cool Again have fun because I think fun is inclusive most of us want to have fun Make art build up your dreams and enjoy the rest of full-stack fest. Thank you Come back out here for some Q&A. I was like, oh, I think I took too much time That was really fantastic and inspiring and I have a few questions from the audience here We have a few minutes So thank you for talking about the importance of building technology around the idea of access and removing barriers to entry It's clear that the tools that you build are centered around that idea What are some more ways that you would want to make glitch or 8-bit art even more accessible? I think Well, one thing that we're that I'm working on with both make 8-bit art, which is in my free time Which is very little of and with glitch is actual accessibility When we launch user profiles, we did an accessibility audit of the community site glitch calm And we found things like oh when we had a modal window pop up It didn't focus and so how is someone supposed to tab through that? Someone who normally doesn't use your keyboard to browse might not like notice that and so we're like we have to make sure that the very Least is keyboard accessible screen reader accessible Turns out it's not that hard to do you just have to like make a task for it made a Trello card for it like Accessibility audit and then update it and now we're at a task with doing that with the editor Which is a bigger ordeal We use code mirror as like the code editor part And so that has its own accessibility issues. Fortunately, it's an open-source project so any work that we do on that We can sort of upstream to them The WordPress core community is using code mirror on I think Gutenberg And so they're also interested in what we're doing because we're all kind of like we need to make this all accessible for Our users, so that's just always constantly thinking of how we can improve that. That's awesome How are you planning to monetize glitch? Ah so My and this is my own philosophy, but I think it matches the team We can First of all the features that we have glitched right now are free and those features will remain free We have constraints that we publicize in the site like you have 128 megabyte disk space limit We might in the future have an off-ramp premium feature where you can expand that space But we're not going to lower that space from you again anything. That's on the site right now is free We don't want to screw that up We are working with we have glitch comm slash for platforms We're working with big companies who want to use glitch in order to get their example apps and documentation out to you And so we want like companies to sort of pay to support glitch to support their documentation So if you have documentation that involves code you should be using glitch Because one it's full stack so you can do like API documentation with ease and embed it And if you want analytics and stuff like that and want to know what people are making with your with your project Like I think that's super powerful So that's what we're thinking of in terms of of money nice That's awesome, and then last question you mentioned some general advice for how people can lower barriers to entry within their project So you said free portable community oriented. Are there some specific like low hanging fruit? Things that like people can do on their apps almost immediately. I think the problem I see right now is the whole trend of payment plans and requiring that credit card to use your service even if it's free AWS does this And when people want to get their site online, then usually the next step is like, okay Let me set you up with hosting you can use AWS for free for a year or something like that But you have to enter a credit card and I was in a space where I was teaching and I did that and the student They were like, I don't have a credit card. I don't have any money and it was incredibly it was I'm getting like emotional thing about it like it's like It's you don't want to put anybody into an embarrassing situation where you're showing them like look you don't belong here You know me and there are people who think like oh if you don't have five dollars to like host a website Then you don't belong here and it's like they're just trying to enter the industry and make as much money as we do like Let's give them that so I think that the the the socio-economic Diversity issue is a big problem that a lot of us it's easy for us to forget because a lot of us are making really good money So thinking of that Other than that I mean again I really think that the if you can get your teams diversity to reflect what your user base wants to be if you're Not sure what your team diversity should be look at your user base and see who's using it, you know, yeah It's so true. So true. Yeah, thank you so much Jen. Thank you another round of applause, please