 That is under dark and we're back Back on stream yard are recording for a serious 142 X and radio. They have pride of the Howard University Network My brother Katie for the Eric or is the Morganite tiff about to be thrown off the show We're about to try something different. I'm going to drop the link to this stream yard On our social medias and let's see what we come up with through the course of this show So brothers and sisters hopefully We won't get the best of the ratchets Mike On the right day So be ready for the questions Let's go ahead and get into it big Week as of today for the HPC community is going to be a zoom meeting between White House officials led by Senior advisor more house alumnus second Cedric Richmond With the HPC presidents this week now. There's not an official agenda on what they're going to talk about it is believed to be the first formal conversation between the leaders of the sector and The the White House officials and there's no word on if President Joe Biden will participate or vice president Kamala Harris will participate We only know so far. It's Cedric Richmond and whoever he does. He designates as his proxy. I Would ask you guys, what do you think the number one topics of discussion should be for this? What is believed to be the the initial meeting between the HPC community and the Biden administration? Eric you look in dubious bro All right, so like I'm just gonna Listen our schools need people to be able to make donations You know the easiest way people to be able to make donations if they don't have to pay their student loans My thought process is so what happened to this whole student loan plan? Because this whole always gonna pre freeze payments until September situation. Yeah, it's real cute but It doesn't just help us it helps a whole bunch of people correct So my thought process is it's like, you know first like that's the first thing that pops into my mind The second thing that pops into my mind is I Don't know what like the common agenda across the board is I mean we caught we often see that You know organizations such as you and CF because they do mostly they do with prior institutions And you have T Durga Marshall that deals with public institutions and there's The schools have different situations as far as what needs they have on a general basis But I think ultimately speaking my biggest question is prior to this meeting did all the representatives of these Schools decided to get together and have common conversations like what is our collective agenda? What do we need? Can we work sort of can we come in as a united front and say these are the things that we need? Not the things that I need as a president of this institution. That's just my general General question. I hope it happened But I would have hoped it happened prior years too. So Well before I say anything what Tiff, what do you think you look like you're in agreement that there should be consensus before The conversation and to be fair before you start I I got word of it through a UNCF communication So the appearances that at least UNCF and I'm assuming TNCF and Na'Fio are Sending out communications to say, you know be ready for this call and there may not be a collective agenda It may just be like, hey, you know I'm Joe Biden. Nice to meet you again, and I look forward to speaking with you but if there are opportunities for them to talk, what do you what do you think are our Focus areas particularly if you if you cannot have an opportunity for consensus so For the last what? Let's just say eight years Yeah, let's just start with eight We have or you have digest has Compared the Obama administration and what they did the negatively impacted HBCUs versus what what it is that we gained from the Trump administration and if I was a President or somebody that a President listened to I would be You know getting my you know Venn diagram T graph together to say this is what happened between these two administrations where Where can we put ourselves? Push ourselves forward to where we are in a better place Now that we're dealing with somebody who's familiar because this person has been In in an in a presidential administration before you're not you're not new to this you've been an elected official for a long time You know the needs that we had and you ran on a platform that That expressed all these things About knowing What our community needs? What does that look like in real life? So if I was a president or somebody that listened to That the president listened to I would be saying hey We need to compare contrast and come up with a collective plan if you will like I Think that What we saw throughout the Trump administration? I think people came together and Was like and we're like really up front and then people's faces about it because it was Trump And so I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to watch from from here and watch people do nothing or do less because this is a friendlier face or Friendlier administration, I don't want to watch that. I don't Or is do you think we should take a QAnon approach? To the to the White House and galvanize and say, you know what not storm the Capitol But at least have a grassroots a grassroots thing where it's not just presidents That pressure is being applied not just from administrative standpoint, but there are Alumni and students also active on social media saying the storm is coming Considering that you know the last administration forgave some loans from the storm that wouldn't be a bad That wouldn't be a bad hashtag to have but I think this is an indictment for the first of many diamonds on Kamala Harris Even if it's not her policy Straight to the vice president already Well, well just because again, you can't be you can't Announce your campaign for president Howard You can't have your most viral video be you marching with a marching band You can't have all these that it can use to the story like colleges you and Raphael warlock and so forth and so on There has to be in my opinion that concerted by her To make her place known in this as we all know people say like the most inconsequential position In government as vice president because they don't have a ton of power And they really get delegated to run different committees things of that nature But they don't necessarily have the power to really leave from a polity perspective To me she has to state it to Joe Biden Let me run this and then champion the things that happen from this I think that'll be a good first step for her but if she doesn't And she takes a more passive approach As obama did it won't it won't help and I think that it only will lead to more disdain Towards her because in many cases what we see is that we get more from people who We view as our enemies and those who will be allies and she's the biggest ally in the history of american politics So she has a very very very big platform. She's big shoes I mean But her goal has to be to reach that I don't think there's any way that she'll be able to do all the things that she probably we probably want to do You know alana of a historically black college, but She better try because if she doesn't Um We have sympathy for her because we already have a president separate one of them didn't do We have a president from what trump did and quite frankly except for it gonna be lucid or morosa right now Being us the more Right around the edges more local, you know, take a rich and local new alans the locals in the mix You know get busy time do i'm sure somebody gonna be bouncing So We're gonna need a bit more so i'm saying i'm gonna stop I'm turning red katie is a lot to unpack what or just said notably I do think that that there's something to be said about um Should should vice president harris be the face of it She almost and I think that he has a point she almost has to be because they talked it up that much So it would be it would be unusual if the president or the the secretary of education was kind of leading the hbc march And it wasn't her right it would almost seem disingenuous. Is that real? I think it's a fair critique But I also want to want everybody to understand because this has been coming up a lot if you pay attention to just Coverage in the national media it hasn't been a week. Has it been a week? It's been a week. Nope. Well, it has been it's been exactly that Right, right. You cannot solve all of the world's problems in a week. And so for me I just I appreciate that they're taking a measured approach to how They resolve issues in the community in general like he signed a ton of executive orders the day one of which Was it even the day yesterday one of which was to address racial equity? and so Just just hearing the president say out loud, yo We need to Not necessarily A lot of presidents just would not be bold enough to get use their platform to say, yo We have a problem with white america and we need to address it, right? So he's moving in the right direction and I do appreciate the language he's using I want this to come from congress. I don't want to just bully this through because if we learn anything about american history If obama was a pinnacle for people of color in the black community trump was the white lash And so we we're also trying to avoid is more white lash from from progress, right? as president Right, and this was wrong. I'm kind of glad she's not sitting in that seat in hindsight because You see that they try to repeat one of these jack and one of these congresswomen Try to impeach impeach him on the first day Imagine if they this this this run to it with a white man Right somebody he she would be facing as the president. So For me, I just want them to hold themselves accountable for what they've said, especially because he'll lift the hbcu's today I mean big flex. You think kamala harris is ready coming from hbcu. That was his words, right? After he won he's been doing that like Throwing these signals out Let's talk about loan forgiveness. As you said talk about how you're going to steal the hbc's from community college and what that community are enrollment Are you going to talk about bill grant eligibility and increases in the amount? I would address things like, um You know bar just think and come out and say, you know, I got a degree, but I can't find a job You owe me money back, right? Here's a lot of stuff we got to do Right and for for me, I just want us to be included in the next Set of innovation, right? He's talking a lot about growing energy and renewables and I just want hbcu's to have direct involvement in that If I had to make one request involve our STEM programs Right, just make sure that we got a seat at tesla's table At g at general electric table at bell's table like everybody that has a seat at the big table and energy companies Make sure we got a seat suit That's the that's the best thing you can do for us right now and to your point 80 because it's an excellent one I don't think it's humanly possible. I don't think it's mathematically possible To catch each piece used up to where white predominantly white institutions are Billions of dollars that will probably fall Undue Generations of disparity, right? I don't think anybody's gonna spend that money So what does this actually look like what does equity look like if it's almost impossible? Hmm That don't mean that you don't try. I wasn't saying don't try I'm saying what does it look like because we're it'll never be equitable. It's been Yeah, I mean I think it's it's a combination of the money But also um the money as in This this money money being given but also um federal federal uh contracts Making sure that nobody is stealing From people because the money has to keep coming in. I I I'm not gonna just say that we'll never catch up We can catch up If we a get what's old B get these federal contracts uh In partnerships on the dotted line and go from there like It it can it could be done. It can be done, but that's only if we have equitable policies that are that are enforced In place um and not just people writing reports about saying what they've done But like that being it and and I think we want the federal government to solve issues That really are state issues and and it's more important for us is to make the state Penalize the states today. What do I read? Because Yeah Right while we're having this discussion, I think it is important to also include that When we're talking about fixing the sector of higher education that is hbcu's Unfortunately, a lot of the presidents of these institutions don't have the answers A lot of them are unwilling to change and progress things moving forward To actually move the sector of like move the sector ahead, right? So, you know, so what I'm saying is is that even when we're talking about things, I guess we want we want You know We want this from the top, right? We want Kamala to actually impact us at all too. Well, right But all I'm saying is is that sometimes you might need to go get some of these consultants who work in higher education That graduated from hbcu's at work in this field Sometimes you might have to go to some of these companies that do work in higher air policy that could see Oh, these are the really the things that need to take place to make these things progress forward Some of the answers you're not going to get are some of the answers you really need to get To really for us to really see the progress that we want are not going to come from the people who unfortunately In historically speaking don't last two positions beyond five years You are inside of positions in allowing things that Have always been to continue forward And people who take credit for the advances that were really put forward by the person that preceded them in that role As if it was something that they they brought they brought up themselves So if we're going to speak about, you know progress for the sector as a whole we have to recognize that just because somebody has a title Doesn't mean that they necessarily have the expertise to really push things forward in a way that we need our schools to be moved forward This is a fascinating conversation and just like on friday They will probably launch a series of discussions between the two sides That's something we're going to have to keep monitoring. Um, because I don't think for as much emphasis and attention people will pay to biden's work in education And as much as they will pay to hbcu's I don't think that people are conscious of okay policy for hbcu's We look at cosmetic stuff. Is he gonna go do a commencement speech? Is he hiring hbcu graduates? Um, are you you know, are you? Mentioning, you know hbcu excellence in your speeches and stuff will will be satisfied with that And that that won't even come close to the policy work that we need so we got to keep watching it um The next topic I want to get into now this is um I don't know if this is deserving of overtime, but we talk a lot about executive leadership at hbcu's And and just before we got on air we were talking about um, our dear brother kwami kill patrick It should should he lose his letters? Because of crimes committed um st. Augustine's university uh private private hbcu in in in uh, in raleigh Had a trustee suspended uh from his position on the board of bishops with the ame zion church Uh staccato pow um now the allegations against him are you know, mal financial malfeasance trying to force Uh churches under his pre uh prelate or prelate. I'm not sure how to pronounce it Either way either way. So churches under his jurisdiction to amend Deeds to their churches to help satisfy some issues with bankruptcy, which the the region went bankrupt Um, and the board of bishops suspended him over the summer. It's just now coming to light now Should that matter? In terms of his his leadership or his presence or his membership as an hbcu trustee Tiffany this is an extension of your church um Are you going are you gonna rant like you did on morris brown or are you going to defend the church? I'm pretty sure that absolutely Absalom john I'm pretty sure absalom would object to that characterization. Thank you very much. That's one two I would say As I said to you privately If he did it one He'll do it again. It's a pattern and if he did that In his district and The church didn't say nothing to The institution that is what under the church They weren't talking you deserve You deserve Fred brother looks worried about a conversation In other words, it's a it's a legitimate pattern. It's all connected. This is this is not a rant But this is something where he had the ability to do the thing and it happened more than once under his Watch, I don't know and I hear what you're saying I know no, but you don't know that in every case for example We got a lot of hbcu staff members faculty members administrators who like to get drunk That doesn't mean that they're in a president's office drunk That doesn't mean that they're in meetings drunk. I mean Hold up what somebody does with their own body is their business But when you have other people's money That you are responsible for In other words, I can't stand or make decisions As if it's your own Finances, okay, I don't I don't I don't know there's an open question. I understand the discussion But there's a question of it. What? What you do is a professional may not impact or should not impact your role as a volunteer on a on a board Not for this not for this because he's in that position because he is a bishop But But it's not a it's not a mandatory seat at the board, but he knows the rules I I understand katie. You were getting ready And so I don't have too much to add because I'm a Methodist So, you know, we don't I haven't dealt with this Methodist church I've never dealt with someone Christy knighting Methodist on Washington's trick and chase all of them Christy knighting Methodist So if you're not from Baltimore, you don't know what you sound like the church and PlayStation. Um, nice plugs But just understanding like just the feeling of someone in your organization stealing from you, right You know, I understand why there's some pause With him being on the board because now you have to scrutinize All of his activity and I think as long as they're doing that with fidelity Even though they know he hasn't been operating with fidelity across the board. That's fair Beyond that, you know What you so He's supposed to be a man of faith. Why are you stealing from the people, you know And why they're not just stealing from the people you manipulate in the system so you can even steal By the way, he's also on the board at Livingston So he's on he's on two He's a CEO of a private company or a corporate a public corporation and he was placed on those boards He's in that position because he is a bishop of that church Not necessarily st. Augs. I understand Livingston, but not st. Augs Because that's not that's not Amy Zion church You understand what i'm saying But in terms of corporate governing I'm talking about the corporate government is like They're Therapy the person who manages your 401k plan at your individual employer got a drinking problem There's someone on that board who had issues. So I think That's the first thing is that Being a bishop in a church is an executive position. Like he's not Okay, he's an executive. He's he's but so so what i'm saying is that he's held to the in my opinion He's held to the same standard As the ceo palo was getting ready to resign Because of his connection to jeffrey eppstein so And and and he's not leaving the board. He's on the board of of paolo So he just lose he just losing. He's just resigning from his position. So I think you should be able to stay on the board um Because again It should be that the board members are checking each other should be some checks and balances I think the bigger problem with hbcu boards in general is that we have far Far too much of an influence from the black church on our boards And in my in my experience, it's those church leaders who are most of the issues It's not the people from the corporate world, but that's just me What was on fire tonight frat would you? I have I have a I have a couple of comments. First of all, y'all are hilarious. Um I typically when it comes to to leadership for institutions I like to um Use the mary and berry rule And and about the mary and berry rule I I specifically mean I do not care what they do from 5 p.m. Till 9 a.m. I care everything that they do between 9 a.m. To 5 p.m. May have a light right mere for life. I can't What do you do? Impact the school it loads of that city impact the city He was all right with me. All right, but that being said I believe this is the third consecutive year since we've had that is up the dark that I've had to ask this question Which is to say when it comes to the trustees of not just hbcu's but in higher education across the board Who do they answer to? The model is messed up because you get to a certain point where it's like all right, they make a decision on who's a like What is the leadership structure look like? We people appoint people members of board members and to Tiffany's point, right? He got that position by and large due to a position that he held If you can't maintain the position that you hold So you get it because you keep the position that you got You should be no way doing the volunteering work Just like if there's somebody somewhere who happens to be taking liberties With the people of the organization that they've been working with and saying improper things around them and whatnot Then they may not need to be you know on the board of multiple hbcu's Even though they've done a whole bunch of work regarding funding hbc. Oh my bad. She hasn't did anything to fund hbcu She's just got a bunch of money for it. I'm not inserting any names But you know who I'm talking about but that's that's not the point the point is We need to like this the the whole structure as it is is a problem And the part of that is that us is as alumni as stakeholders as those who care about the hbc community We have to have have to wield more of our influence in certain things because to me it extends even down to And it's not even a color thing if they're It's just hypothetical if there's a board of trustees member who has an active part In a voting precinct being removed from your hbcu campus, which allows in gerrymandering which which allows gerrymandering to take place That person needs to get removed from being a board of trustees because then you're actively working against One of the kind of tenants that that hbc's are kind of founded upon you know, so my question is He did something messed up. It should matter to the school But at the end of the day because of the messed up power structure who gets him out of it But see the issue is and I hear what y'all are saying. I really do But I think that we one thing that hbc's have to be careful about is slippery slopes So for example, he's accused at this point. He hasn't been accused of stealing He's been accused of trying to force people to you know sign your deed over so we can use this as collateral to get out of bankruptcy He ain't in jail He's facing a trial within the church but not a trial within the civic system or the municipal municipal or federal court So that's one thing the other thing is if we are going to start defining people And their board membership or leadership by what you do in your personal professional life Don't you think that there is a natural? There's a natural shift in saying what's wrong Today is staccato powell and he's mismanaging money with the church Tomorrow it could be a trustee who's in congress Like morgan states board chair choisean fumay Who works with a trump supporter? On a bill and then black folks say i don't like what you did get off the board You know i mean or let's say trump if trump was still in power And he's working with trump on something or agreeing with trump on something get off the hbc board because you're working with somebody We don't like like there's a or you have or you have an issue. You have a messy divorce You're you're not upholding the kid because because of infidelity get off the board because you can't be faithful You know, I mean there's a there's a slippery slope in some of these things Like once you say one thing is wrong at some point there's going to be other wrong that other people can define And what do you do then? The slippery slopes have always been applied to people who are not men So like you're saying all this but there are women who who are told these very same things simple simple simple Occurrences in their private lives. I don't have no sympathy for a man Who has been in leadership for how how long he's been in leadership Who knows what his job description is what it calls for who decides to do something contrary or or Try to finesse it in a way. I don't have no sympathy You know better Produciary and operating, um, you know in the best and financial interests of your institution a lot more seriously than those other cases Because that is the thing that can cave you the quickest Is not managing your money correctly at the very least they should look they should actually do an investigation to anything that he's done Right, right. That's why the term is suspended right not fired not right We just need to Investigate to see if you should be on our board at the very least at the table and that's fair We that is common practice in america now now to that point It is not unusual for boards to say you're a controversial figure We don't we want you off nothing about this and then that was the other thing I was thinking about branding right Because hbcu's left and right are getting all this bread from these Um, philanthropic efforts. You don't want to take yourself out there loop due to bad leadership And so that could be the other reaction and and we're talking about saying augustine, right? And they got some leadership issues, right? And they've had some money issues before this came out right they had money issues on the board Before this happened, you know, you're gonna throw him out for something that's happening outside of the school Let me say this the board members who were alleged have been involved with their money issues are still on the board So what standard have you said? Fair somebody got to be the example Somebody got to be destroyed a broke the camel's back. Listen, man. They're they're being corrupt trustees from jump fam you Has dealt with corrupt has dealt with corrupt trustees for a long time And you don't you rarely see people getting thrown off the board. So i'm not saying i'm not saying it's right I'm not making a decision one way or another. I'm just saying how should the hbcu community consider When somebody gets in trouble outside of of operational stuff That how much of an impact should it should it have on their board membership? Like if you had a if you had a owner of a company and the company folded Would you be able to say like throw this guy out? He might make the school fold. Is that fair? I'll say this The conversation has to start with HBCU stakeholders need to start caring more about who Encompassed the board or trustee members or the board of regent members that actually Impact their institution because those are the ones that are selecting presidents or chancellors if you will Those are the ones that are influencing the decisions of your university in ways that you don't even see You can't and I think to a degree like and there's a bunch of reasons as to why we don't right? Like we got real lives. We got regular lives about our own personal lives to worry about But ultimately speaking if we start to care more about who gets in those positions, then they already know Oh, let me let me be a little bit more careful with this because this title that I hold people are watching me Nine times out of ten. We really ain't watching nobody on that level We didn't even have any conversations as it pertains to who was up to in those in those actual seats Influenced that things going on so Yes, we should care. Yes, we should we should raise alarm to it But also we got to be involved and at least considering what's going on and thinking about it Long before something arises. I'm talking about people are being selected I think it has to start there. All right. Maybe these boards need to get a little bit younger, right? Say that sir They look like the senate as far as average age These boards never get old never get younger because The whole point of them is to find someone who's seasoned and but the the the the bigger issue I beg you for as people start to die off People start to die off is that the traditional way the agency boards were filled was again was majority clergy And then people had businesses that interacted with the school's contractors But as we start to see business get disrupted and the higher education model get disrupted Are we going to be the ones inviting these tech people onto our boards? Are we going to be the ones who who create We're starting to see that a little bit because if you look at the the clafflin zoom partnership, for example One of the conditions of that partnership is Clafflin CEO, I'm sorry zoom CEO has a seat on clafflin's board. So now we're starting official These big these big companies start to put some skin in the game, right? Like okay, we'll we'll we will work with you and we'll give you money and we'll create pipelines for workforce development But we got to be at the table seeing how you're creating how these these programs are being developed and how they're being Enhanced and what are your trends on faculty retention and student performance and University advancement and even athletics what opportunities do we have to leverage athletics to benefit us? So it's starting to happen Maybe this agile business model because they one they don't waste 10 million dollars a year on football to Their entire alumni engagement model is on the things that the school gave to them Not a figurative and symbolic marching band homecoming experience I'm not just not to say that by the school But their business model is Not athletics Listen I'll say I'll say this Maybe the solution for our institution should be that Board of trustee Membership should have term lengths Maybe Maybe each board should be these board sheets should be for a particular person You've been saying that for a while represented for technology representative as a pertain to athletics represented as it pertains to curriculum As it pertains to donations and funding and like workforce development, etc You won't have these board members only and you get a whole bunch of people from business We need a more we need more balanced boards And we need boards that the board 10 years to have limits Almost every almost every position that we talk about people who are given like volunteer positions If the president can only be the president for eight years And why the heck can you've been on the board for 30? Like somebody needs to get you out of there But what I would say is if you look at it look at the government model y'all just brought it up look at congress What's the term limits? Judges need everybody And here's another question gotta I would ask before we move on to that Ores has a terrific point. It's difficult to get younger when the self The self promotion or the self I guess Stability of the board is driven by older people Even as they die off they appoint themselves they appoint their friends. They appoint contacts. They appoint You know political, you know people and governors appoint people young people don't really run for governor It's always middle-aged to older people who run for governor They appoint trustees at state hbc us when you when you talk about private hbc us Who do I know? I know the funeral home director I know the past of the largest church in the city You know, I mean I know the dude that owns six gas stations or three walmarts That's who's gonna be on the board. That's not that's not gonna be a young person. You're right It's not gonna be a young person. So, you know that I get it and I agree But I'm just saying how do you how do you infuse that particularly because younger people even when they're successful Aren't typically the ones that are making sizable donations to a governor And they aren't writing hundred thousand dollar checks to say make me a trustee. I'm about my way in You don't like the governor has a campaign team. His campaign team is like 30 and under We are the people on the ground. We know what's happening. We know how to connect We you're just a voice box. You're just a representative of the people So maybe you need to bring one of your people that's used to being on the ground in that seat Or at least had some experience on the ground because that's a lot of what happens. It's like you don't have your um Your change makers in those seats you have people that have just made a lot of money And making a lot of money isn't all about being smart all the time. Sometimes you're just lucky And well, not just that making a lot of money ain't the subject and the ending and the ending agreement of how to make a strong school Even if you're donating a million dollars a year, that that doesn't mean that you know anything about higher education You could be given a million dollars a year and they could be blowing it right under your nose and you never do it So it's a lot to unpack with that one. Let's move to the next topic. Um, I think this week and there there never was published A date or a time on this But hbcu presidents were scheduled to or are scheduled to meet with the ceo of google Uh to discuss racism Uh alleged by former google employees particularly on under the auspices of I was a hbcu, you know, kind of coordinator for a development talent and getting people from black houses into this pipeline And y'all got rid of me So you got the presidents of the five, you know, the big five hbcu engineering schools So that's prairie view bam you a and t morgan. Um, I'm missing one Howard and and they were supposed to And they were supposed to meet with the google ceo My perspective on this is that You're you're talking above the problem the google ceo and the hbcu presidents don't manage the hiring Right, you don't manage the talent acquisition Right So what what do you think do you guys agree with that or do you think that the executive influence can create A atmosphere for the hiring managers to do the right thing in terms of not only bringing in talent What bringing talent along in the organization? First of all to your point Having people at the top discuss What has happened doesn't necessarily make sense unless They talk to the lower people who are responsible for the operations of the program. So that's one Do we know? I don't know. I haven't seen anything to that effect number two if they can't get it right Then maybe tmcf needs to manage that because they seem to know how to do it So That's one of their offerings they seem to know how to do it. They just need to cut to check the tmcf and let tmcf place these these uh stem stem educated hbcu People alumni and people who are current students as interns. Let them handle this as you can't get it right So let's put that to the go. Google would never Google never do that for too long. How The problem is that Google's a big ass company And in big ass companies you have layers and layers and layers of management and leadership and staff who make decisions So in order to speak to the CEO because the CEO sets the strategic vision of the company He also has the ability to make things happen a lot faster in middle management The third thing is that A company is google size would never allow tmcf anybody else to select where they're on the higher because Again, like they have what they're looking for and tmcf tmcf they find a great student from fan They'll fit once in terms of culture What we're missing here is that So So that's what you're saying this Oh, I'm about to put the randler on you So the last thing this is right there are great hbcu alumni. We're going to be engineering degrees or finance degrees But there's seven degrees don't fit google culture Because even today the culture of the organization is one in which We can say There are tons of people who are skilled who have the skills Who don't get jobs and finance, you know, who aren't they working for Goldman Sachs because they just don't fit And it's someone who's working for america five days a week and has since I graduated I can tell you who had better grades than me who were smarter than me who Did not get the jobs that I got because they just didn't fit and I'm trying to get too deep into The cultural differences But the issue with google and hbcu is that we have a pipeline of talent to people I don't know how well all of us fit into that culture, which is why in many cases most organizations We're tokenized And we're tokenized because some of the last And I'll give one prime example I never gave my first day. I was working at medical recorders fresh out of school Before they see you graduate in my position, but I don't say with pride. I say with the same but I was going to Morgan's on coming and my co-worker looked over for me said you're going to paint I said paint. I'm like, I'm going to I mean you don't paint. I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, you're gonna. You're gonna paint your body. You're gonna paint your body. I was like nah We don't do that And he was so he was someone and we and culturally People hire people who are like them And they mean people who are like them at our school And the consistent challenge will be the fact that we're asking to go and join majority white companies Because companies because we don't have the capacity And I just think that it's it's going to consistently be a cultural issue because We'd be a qualified want to be If we don't fit what they're looking for and we don't relate to we don't know the office jokes and office space jokes and watch parks and rec It's it's going to be a consistent challenge. So if you can't do it Nor can actually your president's do it And I'll give you I'll give you even a better example I had a president a conversation with a president about this and this president told me a story about a previous stop where they served in leadership And one of their strong programs was accounting And they had a pipeline for students going into an accounting firm a regional accounting firm The students were stellar. They were top-notch accounting accounting or accountants The challenge was the students would get there for internship or even for a job Do the job inside and out we're we're among the best people there. They didn't know the software And at some point the the the employer was saying I can't do anything with you because we don't have time to teach you the software Because at this other school pwi They're learning how to do this on the software that we're using So even to or is this point not even just a cultural fit. Sometimes it's just an infrastructure fit And then you ask the question if this comes up in a meeting with google or marriott or The washington post or whatever else like you you know, you're a great writer. You're a great reporter, but you don't You don't have sources You don't you don't have good relationships on capitol hill or you don't have good relationships with the wizards Like I need somebody that can do this today. I can't wait till you get ready. I can't wait till you learn the software I can't wait till you learn the culture. We got to move today so To the point that these leaders are talking about this thing eric Where where where does this conversation legitimately go because we can see the five of us can see That there's an infrastructure problem. We got to deal with There's a talent problem We got to deal with in terms of exposing these students Having them be top-notch and competitive with everybody else including mit and stanford and india and china We got we got a talent thing. We got to address We got a culture thing. We got to address and get an infrastructure infrastructure thing We got to address What what good is the is the leadership saying we got problems. We got to address when we already know that I'm going to say you What I've learned in My various stops in higher education When you start to involve Deccanol and executive leadership and trying to address issues at a company or an institution and I'm making the point of saying institution because Whether we like it or not Every single higher education president and or chancellor Including hbcu presidents and or chancellors. They do this as well They will install a plan from a strategic Campus wide or business wide or organizational wide perspective And they will try to implement it from the top down And change don't take place from top down If you don't install a plan In which each department That may or may not have that issue but needs to improve upon that issue can fix itself Let's say it's a diversity and inclusion issue. Let's say it's a finance issue Let's say it's any any you can name any issue What did you want unless you figure out how to fix that on a departmental level from the grassroots up You will not change the institutional culture. It doesn't work from top down It just doesn't which is you can talk about businesses. You can talk about the entire government It is literally the same thing across the board So my biggest issue is is that you're going to have these hbcu presidents of these five institutions And they mean well and they're going to go talk to google and try to figure out what's going on And that's all going in great But the question ultimately comes back to With those issues as it pertains to those students may or may not be able to get those positions and being unprepared on their individual campuses Are you implementing a strategic campus? Why perspective on trying to address it? Or are you attacking the issue from a grassroots level with the people that actually talk directly to the students? and From the bottom And improving them as they grow because if you really want to change your institution structure To make sure that people are even if they're even if it's an elevator level of code switching Or fitting in or playing the game. However, you want to call it and or is it spoke to it? You have to fix it On a very small level where the students are located Or like you oh it's an institution level This is what we stand for as an institution and it makes you as a president look good It makes you as a chancellor look good because it's what you've implemented But there's no real way for anybody to go in and assess that you created change on every single level That makes your students better And so my biggest thing is is that? yes, we culturally speaking like we have to understand like Work in their world, but living yours like figuring out the way to like make have that that real bounce It's every day, but the truth of it all is that We don't teach that enough of hbc us we do very much teach the be your authentic self and all of your authentic blackness and that's a great thing, but Part of that is learning how to code switch because this is what we do Right and a lot of it is a A lot of us need to learn a different way of code switching so that when we do get to that position And we take that veil off then we open up the floodgates for those of us Behind us, but we got to get there first now the fortunate part is that you you are starting to see because of COVID because of the murder of george floyd companies are starting to take the veil off and say all right We want to do better by black folks who work here And a whole bunch of industries and a whole bunch of industries But katie your stem graduate You know what it's like to feel in in a graduate program or in a work setting like Oh, I've been doing this since you know, I was undergrad at coppin and there may have been moments where you're like damn I've never seen this before You know, I mean like oh, yeah, I mean let me like let me jump in because The young lady that we're referencing that kind of started this issue About her treatment at google had nothing to do with The idea of carrying talent within google She couldn't get people in the door Like she said the hr was going out of their way to ensure the hbcu graduates did not get an opportunity So we can't even talk about if we're talented enough. You don't know right That's what I'm gonna say And so maybe this time if the ceo can take a look at it and say damn these notes really do Throw this person out the window because it says Howard university instead of mit Is that's literally what was happening? She would she would read the notes and then she would say hey How'd you come up with this conclusion and then they would just shut her down She um, she talked about it on twitter and I think she did something else Um kind of spoke to her experience there and why she had to eventually leave while they got rid of her Because she was she was seen as combative because she was fighting the battle for us from within And if you recall she was the fiber call this correct She was the first hbcu graduate to get a job at google and they brought her in to bring in more hbcu graduates But it just wasn't happening because of that hr and whatever the logistics are about hiring people at google So they have a five billion dollar campus. It's a plus 100 billion dollar business. They could afford You know what I mean? They could afford to take some risk for students They're not going to lose any money over some hbcu graduates. So it's a it's a Like tech in general It's 75 white right now still in 2021 75 percent white mostly men So them like trying to give up space so that we have opportunities is hard in itself. You know what I mean? dealing with that It conversations like this can be helpful, but somebody has to take an active stance on yo Maybe we do need to bring in more talent From other sectors It's two points that I want to make one. I don't want hbcu's to unfair We we talking about black colleges where advocates for them But I don't want them to get the unfair burden of The only people who have a problem with this are hbcu's as a whole bunch of state schools It's a whole bunch of mid-level predominantly white schools that have the same problem the kids come out If they're ready to get blocked at the door or if they get let in they're not ready A whole bunch of schools have that problem hbcu's just have the unfair burden because we're historically black number two And I I promise you Tiffany. I don't mean any shade by this How does this happen at google when three years ago we were heralding howard west How did we say we got a partnership? That's exclusive to howard that other hbcu's will be able to backdoor their way in Where we're gonna where we're gonna have a specific microscope placed on graduates from hbcu's and we're here talking about this Isn't it like what you said About well a few years ago about how people People will say that they did a thing to say that they did the thing Mm-hmm To that point we're talking about A partnership that Sets the tone for for for the direction that they said they wanted to go in but again How what does that look like on an operational daily level? It looks like what's this exposed? Which is why I said if they can't do it if they won't do it They should not be responsible for it because they clearly can't do it So if we like katie said in in opposition to or's We can't even discuss cultural fit if you don't have a body to judge what the experience has been They're outside of what's to say it you can't the evidence is not there because they're not there. We are not there I'm still like Company's of that large can invest capacity if they want to They're not But they're not Right now we're in the world We're in the world right now. We're in a world of clothing for companies are Growing their share price by cutting costs and doing different things all the D all the D and I sound good But again, it's important to consistently remind us ourselves understand that Even when we get these lanes These lanes are not meant for the whole company. This line might be meant for five people over five years Like but you know what? I wonder if it's to katie's point that this is a specific symptom of this particular industry For example today, we just found out that Let's find this too What what i'm saying is I wrote an article about this right and one of the industries where you don't see this where you see active pipelines from hbc Us getting bigger and bigger by the year is health care Is health care because there's the lewis stokes Help sciences alliance they're sending out hundreds of graduates to medical school And those graduates are leaving medical school at the top medical schools in the country from hbc us you got kids People don't know tougaloo is a major producer of black doctors. You wouldn't know it They don't we don't talk about it a lot But that is a pipeline g and and nobody has a problem finding a black doctor from the undergraduate level Xavier tougaloo howard morgan you you looking for a black doctor. There's 10 11 12 hbc's and get you one today jackson state There's 10 11 of them that can get you one today. I know i know these i've interviewed them and they've had no problems They've gotten to medical school. They've gone on to lucrative careers health health care seems to have gotten it right Education seems to have gotten it right journalism seems to have gotten it right We just lost the brother from jackson say seku smith who was writing for tnt We don't we don't have a problem getting hbc graduates in some of these industries But tech seems to be the one whipping is so you know why you know why specifically because they don't value education They only value skill Right and so when you got an industry that is antagonistic towards colleges Literally by and large antagonistic like if you talk to some of these dudes that were in it been in the field for the past 20 years I didn't go to college I just learned how to do And now i'm in this position It's like yo, I mean i'm talking about chief of it terrible at business management doesn't know a A mouse from a keyboard but is in charge of the entire department from development to infrastructure to customer service Like and i mean that is that it is a symptom of the field i'm that i can assure you of that point to that point Then that means that that we won't ever get there because we're not set up to be able to To just pull that card and be like oh, I didn't go And I we can get we can get there But we're going to know it was bullshit Either that we got to create our own to be able to do and we don't have that privilege Like in space we we don't have that so that's one but going back to to to the point about um What or is it saying that the hbc you press like it's just not going to happen google's not going to do it when people say stuff like that Then what are we here for why are you wasting my time? We shouldn't be talking if if if this is for if this is for the photo op We good at calling people out on photo ops. Why are we meeting? Then this means we need to play hardball because I can say I can't say that. Why are we here? No I'll bet I'll bet right now in two years in two years We'll have the same conversation about how they had this meeting and the problems exist Because again, there is no incentive for these companies to hire us. We look good We look good, but we have no impact on their bottom line Google google google get more applications and any other company on earth with our behind tesla They don't need us We want to be there. We fulfill a corporate public relations need for them But we are What they need in terms of terms of their pml. We do not affect their business model We don't want because google deals with it. They get most of what most of us are free anyway And they sell your data and then sell them businesses, which we don't have I mean To me it's laughable. Even the hbc you left me. I'm probably on red sand and laughable at the time I find it funny because we have a much better chance Like gary said to get with more local and regional organizations create better pipelines and fulfill those jobs Instead, we try to come at LVM And you don't hire many people we try to go at jp morgan chase and the google and they're hiring us Well, and let me let me actually jump into that because part of the blame Rest on our own hbc use Utilizing these big name companies As a pr stunt to say, oh look who we have access to Look who we have relationships with Even if they're not leading to no fruition because It's like, oh, yeah, we got all these people that are working these places days Not a care in the world on what they experience of working in these places even looks like We don't we there's no follow up with our alum. Oh, you got a job with with jp morgan great We're gonna report that in the in the alumni newsletter and we're gonna send that out We ain't gonna follow it with you to see if they actually treated you well We're gonna follow what you to see if you actually were able to advance going forward Because at the end of the day, we all we only care about bragging about the fact that We were able to prepare our student to go to this big name fortune 500 company To because we still care about our proximity to whiteness as a hbcu and who we actually can get employed True, but let me add one there is a point for us being there though Now they may not need us and it is debatable whether or not we need them But in the tech space a lot of these more Successful startup companies have roots and a group of facebook or tesla They have access to people that can invest in their small business So there is value in us creating that economic bridge from hbcu to google and the other big tech companies. However We also need to understand that we don't we don't need them to be great But if we'll hit a there's a wall we'll hit right because then they could just take whatever we do Copy it and then sell it for much cheaper So is so many industries that seem to get it right and and tech and computer science Remember tech and this is another thing. This is why me and jerry had this conversation and he doesn't understand my point Tech is also the other one that is ungoverned Every industry has some sort of governance from the federal from the federal level It doesn't so they have no rules to abide by Wild west Absolutely none and this is why the federal government also needs to institute a department of technology for two reasons one for defense Because the next the next war is fought on the computer And it's fought on the computer, but I do but to regulate these jagged asses They have entirely too much power over politics over commerce over every ready just messed up ready. Just stop game stop stock And the thought used to be that pilot that the kingdom stuff on the computer couldn't affect the real world Right. That's gone. Listen. I'm gonna take that straight up the fourth diehard movie I'm a hood Yeah, oh definitely the fourth die that literally in diehard when your man shut down the whole federal government was like, oh, yeah Go ahead and have to see where we right now. We thought that was a joke My charge is to those hbcs and some others especially ones Down in places like huntsville, alabama, which is turning into silicon valley south anybody who's paying attention Oh, bro, if you Or it's probably no do do some look into what they got going on that in huntsville, alabama in the area of the state Exactly Because it's a wild wild west We gotta Listen because it's a wild west a lot of our schools have to stop looking at these companies that are already like Established and start empowering our students Right because if you create a disruptive the to the industry You can do whatever you want to We don't empower our own students to actually go and do it their own You need to start looking at whether the other places they're stationed like uh teslas and buffalo new york Hey, we need to look at that campus more so than palo alto and I think that you made a critical point before we get into the last topic er We are thinking more in terms of integration. We need to think more in terms of disruption Like change the bit change the model like you keep thinking let's be a part of the model Let's no let's break that bitch and make a new one So let's get into the the last topic of the evening. Um, this is tiffany's favorite topic sports. Um There is a report There's a report There's a report that the mba uh in in uh negotiation with the uh pro basketball players association That is looking to have the this year's all-star game mba all-star game in atlanta With the possibility because of covet. Um of having it in an hbcu gym Good look or bad look? Okay All right Listen I'm gonna say this i'm gonna say this and it's not gonna be fair but it like the entire city of valentine like come at me I don't care There is not any school Any hbcu in atlanta or the state of georgia Anything basketball wise Point blank period y'all are better off coming up to one So say them going to get going to games and actually getting that energy, right? Like i'm so like what school in atlanta? Do you even think about? Because there is a vacant gym in atlanta. Um, let me stop it. Don't Don't Oh wait To that point. All right, this might be an opportunity for the hbcu to get a new gym. No, no, no, here we up. No You're right The atlanta hawks can't feel their own stadium when the world's open up to get people to watch basketball You talk about going to atlanta They can't get a sold out game to watch tre young i'm not trying to hear them So here so here is what appears to be the details behind this And I can respect it because chris paul is one of the architects behind this idea Sure If we're going to be playing in front of no fans anyway because of cove it If we're not going to have fans Why not give the promotion to an hbcu by saying hey 2021 mba all-star game live from morehouse or clock atlanta. They need to go to Durham Don't even don't even go to houston to go to hexa southern the second Well, they got it. They got a gym. That's legit for that if we had fans. They had Would you say it was He was a very very nice jam It's not nice when you wait for the very night Straight to the gym. It's the best The second the second thing that I would say is Is that we've seen this before even with fans when there was a lockout and Lebron and carmelo organ and chris paul again organized the tour where they were playing at Did they play at winsome? They played it? They played it was one of it was one of the best program games They played at clarkin. They played at clarkin land. I believe we're morehouse So they they've had fans pack in hbcu gym Well beyond capacity. I'm sure the fire marshal was worried But I'm saying they've had an nba style game At a smaller venue particularly at an hbcu But because you're not going to have fans. You're not going to have Crazy, you know parking requests. You're not going to have so much of the infrastructure that you would typically need for for an all-star game like fireworks and and Heavy av and all that stuff. You just need a place to play and where they can televise it That stuff is in how much will it cost to televise it though to an nba little So here's a problem, right? Why do we care? For the money, but see right here's the thing though It's going to require a lot of advocacy from someone to say spend this extra 50 grand To run to make sure the sound works throughout the whole gym Pay this extra money to make sure we have all the cameras. We need because No This is why it's about to play like another championship game for college basketball Usually it'd be their nba arena or at large stadium It is because they those other angles that you can't get in smaller gyms So, I mean i'm all for them doing this. I really don't care. I feel like a landing gets far too much credit for hbcu It happens in far more places in Atlanta That is not the hbcu capital like Atlanta I'm going to go on record and say this and this is going to be rude, but it is what it is and this washington dc and atlanta are not Places you should go to to highlight hbcu football basketball or bands at all None of those locations And I have the only email address Listen, you can include my you can include my twitter on this. I do not care. Listen. I'm Fair about it. All right, like people had drum drum line. I had people messed up There is no band in atlanta on the level of atlanta ant from drum line and it has not been for 20 years Are you thinking that? 22 22 years 22 years Like let's call let's let's stop lying. Okay. We should think of these places because there's a lot of black people There's a lot of black power in those areas and that's great But when it comes to hbcu's like like let's stop lying to people. Yo You do not go to these locations to see a great hbcu football game. Well, you can send it to the city Listen But people could well, you can see the point that people align Hbcu culture with those things you just mentioned black power and infrastructure And then the development of the city, that's why is atlanta is charlotte is dc That's what charlotte is Solid For nothing. Yeah, double a bro. Listen. I'm gonna tell you straight up Where the hbcu graduates go does not necessarily it's not a good model for what where hbcu culture is is actually Performed and look at him the best sentiment. I agree to stop doing that Like yeah, blame how it Blame how it it's not how You can't Running into they ban on these sports, but it's not they fault. We've had this conversation before More than a game, sir That's the model it's more than a game But the but the larger point is this Is that a is that a good look and katie to your point or actually or see your point or I forgot who made the point but the investment in Having it at an hbcu gym and whatever the cost would be that would be the cost of a commercial they would run For black history month, that would be the cost of a commercial, you know Some kind of campaign they would do to say we support, you know black lives matter or another stuff So that investment in in outfitting the gym to accommodate the all-star game Okay in kind, you know, I mean like that and that'll go to support the hbcu, but I think that the belief is This will be such a marketing a heavy marketing investment for the black colleges We saw this at the super bowl like you bought out all the hbcu hall of famers Them brothers retired 30 years ago Some um, some of the best ones are dead Right, but you still said we're going to invest in the market value of saying Hbcu on a super bowl stage I look at it that way and to that point if you look at it as a marketing tool And you look at it specifically for somebody like chris paul who's trying to who for a year now on the low So for for years past but in overdrive in the last couple years has been saying yo align hbcu's with this brand I'm a bully. I'ma make sure that that these schools get free commercials while i'm playing They didn't pay you for jack and every time they show my shoes Is the hbcu commercial That was a he brody Like 10 or 12 schools. Yo marketing space, you know, I mean he just did a state phone commercial Where he was walking to support black colleges See what i'm saying like Athletes could find for that and he did not catch one fine for it because they knew what time it was It was black lives matter season We were you were fine chris paul from where hbcu's were in shoes. You don't want that smoke not at this point Not last summer for wearing pink shoes like yes, nba's that petty It's open now though About two years ago So i'm saying to that if you look at it from that perspective as a market employee Is it a is it a good look? Or would you expect more it's a more substantive synergy between the league and the school to say okay? That looks good, but can we get a coaching? Uh workforce development pipeline or can we get a sports management? But it's a look Then that's just taking for what it is Okay, it's it's a good look because black folks are easily impressed by representative politics Is that What am i wrong? Okay, like like i hear what you're saying, but we get no you know like It's rude, but it's also not incorrect, right? Like i literally had a cold conversation with a whole bunch of brothers like last week talking about it was like I wish i would have seen more blackness to celebrate kamala's First time as a as a vice president. I was just like my dude. It ain't even her inauguration You want to be you want to be impressed about how many black people up here singing stuff and and performing Man, we got policies to worry about you appear to talk about. I wish it was more black singers Like i'm sorry. I'm sorry at some point. It's like, okay good like y'all can do a reverse is why not? I did don't you want to impress me build up like in this You put me on record saying this you want to impress me? Y'all going to Atlanta Build and it's like build up five different buildings on the campus of moors brown Give it to the give it to the school to cool in the basketball gym and then actually had to all start You impressed me do that We already did that first of all, we already did that with the olympics the olympics did just that And then create a matter of fact and then after that double down and create a whole program to create like Envy like an mba or a business administration degree that focuses on working in the athletic field For people that moors brown so that then they can actually find pipelines into the mba They like really do it do something that doesn't matter. Don't give me this like representative ds, man I got Do you think it's just is just for show or do you think it's something that can lead to something The all-star game is just a showcase man. Just leave it as a showcase. Yo, we as hpc You don't have time to just be a showcase. We got real issues to deal with Sorry myself with the philanthropic efforts of the mba. Let them do that's just extra that's icing on the cake Like we have other Cake before we can get some icing. We ain't getting no cake Tiffany can the mba give us some cake I'm in here in perspective Hold let me put the camera just on her because she doesn't want to talk about sports So I need you to talk about this. Do you? I'm going to say this And this is slightly aligned with what or is the thing about google In that If they wanted to then they could In terms of what making more substantive partnerships Oh, yes, and i'm saying this is somebody who has had many meetings with Detroit pistons vice presidents former and current um If they wanted to then they would that was a flex right away No, no It's the reality If they wanted to make a substantive change and substantive difference then they would for instance I don't know when this whole all star whatever whatever is is it february? Okay, so great february the pistons has a whole black history month slash equity um platform I'm interested to see what it looks like. I know what it's looked like in the past shape Amen, if they wanted to make a difference Then they would we have so many things in an hvcu state if they wanted to make a difference Then they would there are nba players who can only do what they can do as individuals They that does not compare to the people that write they checks if they wanted to do it Then they would I don't think they care too much to do it and do it right. Otherwise it will be done Let's take a look at the if you look at the companies that these people made their money with to buy the nba team That explains everything. I mean we talk about seaman ross And the money he owns the miami dolphins. He also has the university of michigan business school later after him um I mean you look at a lot of these guys who own teams like they're not There's no gonna be the nba and the players driven league people people to players They go to watch the players mainly mainly because it's less players on the on the floor And they don't they'll leave the nba careers are much much longer than i think the nfl or even baseball But I think that the the the thing that the nba players in my opinion should be doing Is they really should be looking to develop better pipelines in general for college basketball Because as you as I've been as I said before college basketball is a wasted system They should just send the kids who are good to the league everybody else can go and play primarily Get their degrees and if they're good enough then maybe go to the draft after three or four years but I think that I think that what nba players should be doing is to help hbcu It's putting in a barrier to entry because the only sport that the only two sports that actually Send players consistently to drafts and make money from smaller schools Are baseball and hockey because they have a three-year minimum And when you play baseball you have to play college baseball for three years where you get to draft Either over high school or three years. So kids come from Um sticks in in florida in the middle of nowhere kids come from These random d2 schools in california and arizona because there's no There's no there's a barrier to entry you have to Play three years if you go to college unless you get to that at high school And I think that type of model will benefit hbcu because then it would force Many of the top talent to go to school and have to stay for longer because everyone can go to kentucky In kansas and duke because we don't stay in one year until there's never a There's never too much talent there at one time So they want to recreate equity And it's not a good topic at all Everyone could equity then you would you would push to have a system where either Well, well where the top kid is like brawn don't waste a spot in college But then also the kids that do go to college have three years So a top kid who's a freshman or sophomore you're not going to go to that school He's going to be there another two years possibly you would look at a school like Morgan or fam or a different way and it would create more equity within college basketball for our school And because basketball and baseball are both sports that don't have a qualifier in terms of fbs or fcs like football We can really make more money off of it. But again, no one wants to talk about How mba policy affects what happens in college athletic so the mb said we're going to make y'all wait three years Like baseball does I guarantee you we'd have more teams from hbcu's in the meack In the slack and the schools that chose to go to white conferences we don't speak about them But the schools in the meack and the slack would have would have a better They would they would have a better chance of making the tournament being a higher seed Hosting games who would create a whole new ecosystem of money But then they don't care about that they want to symbolize themselves Are we gonna go to ot because i'm over this First of all we're like 20 minutes over time anyway I'm gonna take a shower because we we were Thank you family. I appreciate y'all. This is a wonderful conversation on the on the wide range of stuff This is this is a way to come back in the new year. Um with some with some heavy topics I appreciate y'all with the insight and the intelligence Um series xm 142 hbc radio. This has been digest at the dark. Check us out hbcu digest You can follow me at jerry carter senior on all social media And thank you for putting up with me sounding like mike thyson on mike We will see you again