 This 10th year of Daily Tech News Show is made possible by you, the listener, big, warm, platonic hugs to all of you, including Daniel Dorado, Howard Yermish, and John Atwood. Coming up on DTNS AI might not take your job, because it's so darn expensive to run it. And a screenless smart device called Humane wants to be your future. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, April 21st, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Rebut, I'm Sarah Lane. From Columbus, Ohio, I'm Rob Dunmally. I'm drawing the top tech stories from Cleveland, I'm Len Peralta. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. We are in a very Friday frame of mind, folks. If you're not a patron, you want to be a patron, because I have no idea what's going to happen in the post-show, extended good day internet stuff. But let's start with the quick hits. People seem pretty excited that the Wall Street Journal sources say that Apple plans to Sherlock the day one journaling app. The supposed iPhone journaling app would be pitched as a way to address mental health, reportedly tracking your daily activity, providing prompts for you to journal, something on your mind, based on your activities and who you're interacting with. All data would be kept on device and its prompt suggestions would be deleted after four weeks. As 5G is becoming mainstream, even if it hasn't achieved its full potential yet, the telecom industry is planning for the next evolution of the spec, which, as you may have guessed, they're calling 6G. Representatives from Business, Academic, and Government Interests met Friday in the U.S. to set goals and strategies for 6G development. Millimeter wave and terahertz radiation are candidates to be used in 6G. But right now, the blank slate is there. You can turn it into whatever you want. So this is the very beginning of what 6G will be. Chinese telcos managed to take a leadership role in 5G development, so the U.S. is hoping to kind of steal that momentum back a little. A YouTube community manager posted in the YouTube TV subreddit that Multiview is now available for subscribers. Subscribers are also eligible for $100 off the NFL Sunday ticket, which is regularly $349. That's a limited offer through June 6th. YouTube TV version 1.13 also fixes a few things. An Apple TV black screen startup issue for some folks, a 4K playback issue, it now also supports HDR. YouTube TV also promises a bit rate increase for its 1080p content, although it's currently only being tested on devices with support for VP9 and high-speed internet. The Reddit post also mentions a 5.1 surround sound syncing issue that YouTube TV says it's preparing to fix. Now, you folks know electric vehicle companies are hot and competitions getting hotter. You know Chinese EV companies are in the forefront of that competition because we've talked about it here, but you'd be forgiven for thinking that those Chinese companies have retreated to listing their stocks on Hong Kong or Shanghai indexes since that seems to be what the news has been telling us. However, Chinese EV company Upower, that's the letter U, issued its IPO on the U.S. NASDAQ and shot up 620% Thursday. In fact, trading of Upower had to be stopped 22 times to make sure it stayed under control. Now, big percentage increases aren't really that unusual for small stocks. Upower listed at $6 after all, but it is interesting to note a tech IPO and one from China doing so well on the NASDAQ. WhatsApp has a new feature to keep disappearing messages from disappearing. If you're like, wait, why stay with us? If you get a disappearing message that you then want to keep, you can long press on it and ask to save it. The sender who sent the message that's supposed to disappear gets a notification and can choose to let you keep it or not and let it disappear like normal. Saved messages will be displayed in a kept messages folder. Yeah, I guess that could be like if you're having an ongoing conversation and part of it is like, well, this part didn't have to be disappearing. Yeah, we're like, maybe we forgot, you know, this sort of didn't turn into off the record chat after all. All right, I get that. Let's get humane. Let's do it. Humane is a startup founded by two ex-Apple employees, and they demoed a wearable personal assistant device that does not need to pair to a smartphone and it doesn't use a touchscreen. We don't know a whole lot about it except what we know. So here's what we know. In the demonstration, humane's president wore it in his breast pocket, so pocket on a shirt with a camera just peeking out over the top of the pocket. He tapped to wake it. He then showed it projecting a display onto his hand because the hand was in front of the display. When he answered a phone call during the demo, the display said that his wife was calling. He also pointed the camera at a candy bar and asked, should I eat it? The device told him and this is, he says, based on his dietary restrictions, maybe you want to avoid that candy bar. He then said he was going to eat it anyway and the device said okay, enjoy it. He also showed the device providing a summary of work activity and translating his words from English into French. Invisible devices should feel so natural to use that you almost forget about their existence. You'll note that's me and my voice speaking fluent French. This is my AI giving me the ability to speak any language and you, having a chance to hear me speak that language in my own emotion and my own voice. So this was all demonstrated during a TED Talk, excerpts of which were published on Twitter and collected by Inverse. The Verge says a public release is intended to happen on Saturday, April 22nd. That's tomorrow. It's unclear how the humane device works, what the interface actually is, or what the tech specs are. It obviously uses some kind of language model and deep learning, but those were, there were light on details on that as well. It's a fancy demo as TED Talk's off to our time, but is this something we should be excited about or should we just be excited about? I can't tell yet. I tend to avoid watching TED Talks because I feel like video demonstrations kind of play on your emotions and get past your natural critical faculties and make you feel something is more real than it is. And I think a little bit of that is going on with this and why it's getting so much attention because you can really make something sound great if you're a good presenter, which the president of humane absolutely is. I'm less impressed by the technology which is kind of a bulky thing in a shirt pocket that if you have a thin shirt is going to fall out than I am by the idea, by the concept of, hey, what if we get rid of the screen? How is that going to work? And that's where I'm like, oh, okay, how do you activate it? How does it respond to you? And you get none of that in the TED Talk. He doesn't explain, other than tapping on his breast pocket every once in a while, he doesn't explain what the interface is yet. So I don't know what other questions you have, but that is one of the big ones that I have so many questions. At first glance, I was like, well, this is interesting. Okay, so you're not pairing with a smartphone. So it's pulling data from some sort of cloud service. I mean, it's pulling data from somewhere. It's probably got a built-in modem or something. Something like that. Yeah. And the whole sort of, you know, he's wearing a jacket, you know, that has a breast pocket. And, you know, I'm just thinking like, okay, well, I'm wearing a t-shirt right now that also has a pocket. It's kind of flimsy. And like, would something like that work in this? You know, is this a, you know, a type of clothing that you'd have to wear? Okay. So take the clothing part aside. Yeah. Maybe that's not the final form factor, right? Yeah. But the fact that this is supposed to, the idea, and I think it is worth looking at least some of the excerpts from the TED Talk because it could be a little confusing otherwise is the idea is that you don't have to have something that is you pull out and look at. It's part of your body and you can project things onto your person or a wall or whatever and make things a little bit more seamless. Now, I don't know about y'all, but if somebody calls me and I'm realizing that I'm getting a notification, holding my hand out to see that my wife is calling because his wife is calling in that situation is not easier for me than to pull my phone out of my pocket and see the same thing. Oh, I disagree. It's easier to hold your hand at the dig in and pull the phone out. I mean, the pocket is on that cavernous. I mean, it's right there. Maybe yours are. I'm almost Sarah on this one. I don't necessarily know that I want another device because I'm still going to have my smartphone with me. So I'm thinking that make the smartphone be the brains of this and just give me a very, very small camera potentially that I would clip to my pocket. That would be quite small, but all the brain work is being done in the phone that I'm already carrying with me. To me, that seems like that would just be a much more easy to use type of device. If you're talking about an either or, right, then yes, I totally see what you're saying. But I think where they're going with this is this is an example of ambient technology. We want to have technology where you don't have to have a screen. So yeah, this could be built into a phone, but it also could be built into glasses. It could be, you know, an earring. There's all kinds of other things that you could do with it where I start to see like, all right, yeah, I don't need to have a screen all the time to interact. But that's where the TED Talk fell down for me is like he's showing me the effect of not having a screen and making that very compelling. But he's not showing me how that works. Like other than a couple of taps here and there, which I'm like, I'm not sure tapping on my breast pocket is the best way to interact. He answered that phone call, like it just rang and he said hello and it picked up. Am I meant to infer that saying hello when a phone rings, it'll by context pick that up? Or there might have been a gesture that wasn't explained. Yeah, maybe there was that's that's the thing. It's like, I want to know how that works. So maybe we're going to get more stuff, you know, maybe by now, if you're listening to our episode, you already know more because they announced it on April 22. But I would like to have a few more, few more details about this. I am willing to say I like this as a concept. I like what it's pointing to and I think there's a lot of possibilities. Yeah, I mean, I guess the thing I was trying to compare to the most and that would be a smart watch. My Apple Watch, for example, I tried to, you know, I gave it cell service. And so I tried to, you know, just live my life and leave my phone behind in certain instances where I really didn't think I would need the phone, you know, I can answer a phone call on the watch, etc, etc. And it's possible. All that stuff is possible. But in the end, I kind of was like, you know, it's better that they're just paired together. It's just, I'm just gonna need my phone for stuff. That may not always be true, though. That may not always be true, for sure. And maybe humane can can help, you know, change our minds, we will see. Well, so many of our listeners have been concerned about password managers with good reason, and you still are. So the news of Proton launching its own password manager caught our eye on Thursday and we wanted to pass it along. Proton is a Swiss company founded in 2014 by scientist from CERN to create a secure private mail service called Proton Mail. We've talked about it before. Over the years, Proton has expanded privacy products to include a VPN, a calendar, a cloud storage service, and it receives funding from users through subscriptions. And also funding by a nonprofit startup incubator, Fongit, or Fongit, that stands for, I'm going to try to do my best Geneva French here. Fondation, Genovois pour l'innovation technologique. Yeah, that was great. Bien, sir. Its latest product is called Proton Pass. That's the password manager available to top subscribers in beta right now, though Proton says it'll make it free to use eventually for everybody and open source. Along with your username, password and notes, you can add randomly generated email addresses to use as a replacement for your real email address. That's something Apple does with Apple ID. Everything is end to end encrypted with key generation encryption happening on the device, as you would expect Proton is, you know, right in there with the rest of them and and having the right security things. Paskies aren't on aren't in there yet. They say they're on the roadmap, but they're not going to know those anytime soon. So that is a little bit of a downside when you compare them. But having this news made me think it was a good time to check in. So let's let's start with Rob. Where are you on your password manager journey? It's a journey, Tom. So I was a huge last pass proponent. I still have last pass. I also have one password. I also have bit warden. Oh, man, but if I'm completely honest, I probably use last pass the most. And here's the reason why it was I was such a fan of it that it wasn't just me, but I have a family plan and only do I have a family plan. My parents have a family plan and only do my parents have a family plan. My aunt and uncle has a family plan and I am tech support for all of them. So trying to get them to move to something else when for them last pass, it took years for them to get on it. It's working. It's kind of do you do you really have them stop using last pass to go to another, you know, to another platform and risk not actually having a password manager because I think that that's probably where they would be. They weren't really super gung-ho about getting on last pass in the first place. It was just me, whatever I would have to share a password with them, telling them you really need to be using a password vault and password or last pass was the one that I actually use. So I'm all over the place. And, you know, I would like to get off of last pass. It's just going to be really difficult because I have other people that I've got to bring along with me. And that's why you're doing one password at bit warden, right? Is because of trying the other ones and seeing how they work. I just can't believe that, Rob. After what last pass did, I know that they're actually very secure still, but they lost my trust in December with the way they handled it, which is why, of course, I am still on last pass. I was about to be like, where are you going with this, Tom? We use it as a family plan. It's the same problem. It's the same problem as Rob. I keep thinking like, all right, we need to move the team over to a new password manager. And every time I think about that, I get a headache. And as the details came out about last pass, it's like, well, they didn't communicate it very well. I don't love the way they handled it. But I don't feel like the product itself is insecure right now. I just, I'm a little nervous about what's going to happen in the future. But that allows me to rationalize kicking the can down the road, unfortunately, which I know, I know it's that that is not how it should work. But when you talk about like the same thing that Rob's talking about, I got to move Joe and Roger and Sarah and all of our company passwords off. And then I've got Eileen, you know, and it's it starts to become a whole thing. Well, and you know, I used to use one password and managed to lock myself out of it, which by the way, if you really lock yourself out of one password, it doesn't matter how much you plead to the company, they say, no, you locked yourself out and by design, you can never get back in. That's why it's secure. But then we were using last pass for DTNS, which I started using for, you know, a lot of other personal things. Last pass works, not seamlessly, but for the most part, pretty well for me. I was not thrilled about the, you know, the the the breach from a few months ago either as nobody would be. But that's the it's kind of like, I think we're so used to in this day and age being like, you know, this service doesn't work for me. If a company is cool, they give you like a really good, I'm gonna, you know, port all my data over to, you know, someone else, you know, good faith type thing. We can't do that with password managers. You have to start over. And maybe that's not a bad thing. It depends on what, you know, what you're going for. But yeah, for me, I'm like, oh, you know, like sometimes if I have a spare hour in a day, I go, all right, let's go in and change some passwords. And I have like 600 of them. I mean, it's not that you can't export your passwords and bring them into a new tool. It's that then I have to make sure that I've reshared them and that everybody else is on the new thing. The interface is a little bit different. It doesn't work quite exactly the same way. And you know, it makes you get into that, you know, into that, that tech, you know, area of, well, it was as bad as it possibly could have been, right? They're not going to be dumb enough to do that. Yeah, it's time to rise. No, I don't believe in the same headspaces. Tech racialization. So it's like, I just, I don't know that I want to move. I do. It's just, it's so hard. I don't know if the trouble is worth the effort. I mean, it's worth the effort. If you think it is, you'd be hacked, right? But it's like, we all kind of go, well, are we going to be there? And that's always the death. That's an anti security arrangement. When you go, well, then you shouldn't be doing that. I know. I know. It's like, maybe I'm just lucky. No. Yeah, that's maybe I'm just lucky is not good security. It really isn't. Now, if you get to that point of rationalization, change your password manager. Well, folks, if you like Daily Tech News Show, which I hope you do, there's lots of ways to get it. If you stumbled across it, maybe in audio, there is a video RSS feed. It's available at DailyTechNewsShow.com. We're on YouTube. You can just subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash Daily Tech News Show and get the show there. In fact, our YouTube channel also features Tom's Top 5 where I count down cool tech related stuff every week this week. Cult tech movies you need to watch. It's going to already had one person on Twitter tell me, this has set my viewing for the weekend. Thank you very much. So get in there and watch Tom's Top 5 Cult Tech Movies at YouTube.com slash Daily Tech News Show. Generative AI News never stops these days. For instance, Google updated its barred chat bot to generate, explain, and even debug code in 20 programming languages, Python, JavaScript, Java, C++. You can also write functions for Google Sheets. So we all know you've been listening to this show. The race is on between Google and the dynamic duo of open AI and Microsoft. We also know Meta's got AI chops lurking back there. There's rumblings from Amazon, even Apple. While most tech outlets talk about the ethics and biases of these tools, us included, which is important, there's also cost. The sudden popularity of chat GPT means open AI servers are running at full capacity. Semi-analysis chief analyst Dylan Patel told the information that he estimates it cost in the past open AI around $700,000 a day to run GPT-3 and it's not getting any cheaper to run GPT-4. That's on top of the tens of millions of dollars to train the models. Microsoft's Athena chip that we talked about before is partly meant to bring that cost down. That's why they're designing it, but other costs are about to go up, right? Indeed. Stack Overflow has joined Reddit in planning to charge companies to use its data for training. Stack Overflow runs a forum where more than 20 million developers can ask and answer questions and it's good info. Stack Overflow doesn't allow posters to use code generated by chat GPT, however. Before we get to the question of should we, should we are going to get to the question of can we afford to do this? Rob, knowing the prices here, what do you think? I am reminded of a fat Joe quote, today's price is not yesterday's price and I say that because I think where this really gets expensive, you hear $700,000 a day, well let's knock that up to a million. So you're talking $365 million for this thing to be able to run, but the cost of getting data to train it, I think you're going to see pretty much every company that has a large vault of data saying that we want money every time you access our API in order to get this data to train your bot. So I think at some point price is going to really dictate everything. I think we're going to see, company saying is the price of this, can we continue to make money on this? The question has always been asked, why don't you make the entire airplane out of which you make the black box out of? Because every airplane will literally be a multi-billion dollar vehicle flying through the air, it's just too expensive to do. So I think that if the expense outweighs the poor here, so to speak, that you might see some things start to slow down. That being said, I don't see this slowing down anytime soon because I think these companies are going to figure out very quickly how to monetize this and charge people for literally being able to ask AI any question and get back a legitimate answer from it. Yeah, Nick Walton is the CEO of a startup that does a dungeon game that uses open AI's models, or did. They were spending $200,000 a month to answer millions of queries, so they switched to another lab, AI2ILabs, and cut that cost in half, but it's still $100,000, and he told CMBC, we joked that we had human employees and we had AI employees and we spent about as much on each of them. So I don't think it's going to come down much in cost, and it's going to be expensive. Open AI has been running this at a loss to develop it, and they're not going to be able to do that forever. They're already charging for GPT4 with open AI, Microsoft is charging for things through Microsoft 365 and Azure. I don't know where that cost line is. I mean, I guess that if you were to compare what you're spending on AI to human employees and saying, well, we're spending the same, so don't worry humans, we're not really making money. You could argue that the AI doesn't have to sleep or take lunch or have a family, so there's a little bit of that going on. But yeah, if cost aren't expected to come down, or at least not significantly based on the technology that we have to run all this stuff currently, then yeah, I don't know how worried I would be. I think that it's very difficult to charge people for things that they perceived as being free before. So although chat GPT is kind of a new thing, and just full disclosure, I just signed up the $20 a month account for this because I want to try some really cool things. I want to be able to play with the 4.0 version. But it's $20 a month. If they tell me, oh, it's too grand a month, well, I'm just not testing that kind of stuff out anymore. I don't have that type of appetite to go and learn it. Now, clearly there will be some who will, but if it gets too expensive to where they can't offer a lot for free because that's what people are used to, then I don't think that it's going to go away. It just becomes a very expensive tool, which people who need it, they use expensive tools. So it's going to be around. I just don't know it will be around at the level and the veracity of what people are talking about it right now. They did a smart thing in leaving chat GPT on 3.5 for free. And that made it compelling to be like, hey, you want the better model? You got to pay. That makes sense. But like you say, they can't do that forever. I'm not saying that AI is going to get priced out of the market or anything. But I think it is important in our conversation is underlining that there's a limit to how fast these models can get good because it costs a lot of money to train them. That's why Sam Altman has said we haven't even begun training GPT 5. We're just working on GPT 4 right now. So there's a limit to what they'll be able to do well. And there's a cost to it. This is not free. Even though chat GPT launched for free, it kind of put it in our heads that like, oh, it's going to be like any web service like search or whatever. It's not. There's a cost to it. And so that's going to limit what it can be used for as well. I don't think it kills it. I just think it limits it. Well, I don't know what everyone's travel schedule looks like this summer. I'm traveling a bunch. Well, then you might be considering travel insurance. Some people don't think it's worth it. But if you do think it's worth it, you have a few options and you might want to figure out how to pick the company to trust the best. You don't want to spend money on insurance that doesn't end up helping you when you need it because insurance sucks when it doesn't help you. Chris Christensen has a good resource, if so. This is Chris Christensen from Amateur Traveler with another tech in travel minute. I'm heading back to Europe pretty soon. And with the trip that I'm going on, we're going with friends. And I think they were just a little wrapped around the axle in terms of how do you find the best travel insurance? Knowing that we're traveling in a time that someone might get COVID and get stuck and there might be additional expenses or trips might get canceled, they wanted travel insurance. That's a good thing to think about. But how do you find the right one? And I want to repeat something we talked about once in tech and travel and that is squaremouth.com. It doesn't list all the different travel insurance options, but it lists quite a few of them. And it's a fairly simple site to compare different plans and find ones that have the coverage that you're wanting, for the duration that you're wanting, for the country that you want, at the price that you need. Squaremouth.com. This is Chris Christensen from Amateur Traveler. I think a lot of people don't realize, especially because the airlines are really good at like selling you the insurance at the checkout, that you can add another one. You don't have to use the one the airline gives you. I bought travel insurance exactly once, but it was for a very long term, like a year of travel. And it made sense. And it did cover some stuff that was stolen, like electronics during that time. So that was worth it. But for shorter trips, yeah, I'd be curious to know if anybody has an insurance company that they have had good success with. Speaking of telling us things by email, let's check out the mailbag. Yeah, let's do it. Charles had a thought about whether or not Netflix's increased subscriptions in Canada, which we talked about the other day, can really be tied to its efforts to crack down on account sharing, Charles says. Certainly if a notice was sent and one more share add-ons came about for that account, you could say that the crackdown helped Netflix in that case. However, if a notice is sent and sometime later someone signs up for a new independent account, there isn't an easy way to know one way or another if it was a result of the crackdown. Yeah, so if you're still like, wait, what is he talking about? We talked about the fact that Netflix said that in Canada, where it did launch its paid account service, that's where they try to crack down on password sharing and off you the option of adding people to your account for an extra few, I think it was like $6.99 a month, $7.99 a month, that they saw growth in accounts in Canada faster than growth in the U.S. And Charles is pointing out like, yeah, but that could be for any reason. And yes, you're right, Charles, but the point is they still saw growth. Everybody had been saying, well, when they do password sharing, everybody's going to cancel their accounts and they'll lose. They didn't lose. Now, maybe they just added more new people than they lost people from password sharing crackdown, but that's still a win for Netflix, right? As long as the number is going up and you've got an apples to apples comparison when you're like, well, the U.S. didn't have password sharing crackdown and it didn't grow as fast. Again, it's not for sure, but you can say, well, there's a greater likelihood now that password sharing did help us increase. Yeah, I'm sure Netflix would love to know if Tom was sharing a password with me, no longer does, and I sign up for one of the share add-ons, then the company has information like, oh, okay, what a nice activation. But then if I just sign up for Netflix later, Netflix is like, new user. I could be completely making this up, but I am certain that someone in accounting at Netflix asks the question, why are we making more money? And the response was, because we're awesome. Wait, you sound like somebody who's worked in a company before. In a few. So yeah, someone is really trying to look at where is the money coming from, but at the end of the day, the shareholders are concerned about, we're making more money today than we made yesterday. And that's ultimately what they really care about. Yeah, that's what they're going to, they're going to point at that growth for sure. Yeah. Speaking of growth, I don't know how I'm going to make this one work. Okay. My appreciation for Len Peralta continues to grow. Very good, Tom. Very good. Love that. Thank you. Len Peralta, you've been illustrating today's show. What have you drawn for us? Good old fashioned AI. It's been in my mind all this week with the Adobe Firefly Beta that's out there. Also, just, you know, it's very interesting. Just had a conversation yesterday about chat GPT and programming. So yes, I don't really know what's going to happen, but this might be what sort of puts the brakes on it. This is, I call this code in, money out. It's just open AI working some Python. And meanwhile, all the money is sort of just piling out from the programmer. You think you got it all worked out? Yes, you're living the dream. But really, you're losing a lot of money. So I don't know. I mean, there's obviously upsides and downsides to open AI. Oh, so the money going out isn't going into his pocket. It's just going out the door. It's going out the door. Yeah, exactly. It's not a great situation. So I don't know if you're interested in this, but it is available right now at my Patreon, patreon.com, forward slash learn. If you're back at the DTNS lover level, you get this right now. Or if you like the old fashioned way, you like to download or get a prince signed by me. Even you go to LenPeraltaStore.com, where I'm currently taking commission. So think about that as well as we enter in the graduation grad, dad, mom, birthdays, all those good times. I think great, unique gifts are always on the horizon there. Indeed. Also a dad and also one of our favorite people to join us on the show, Rob Dunwood. Rob, tell people where to keep up with your lead us. Well, you can find me pretty much all around the web. I am at the SMR podcast. That is smrpodcast.com. I'm at the Tech John. That is the Tech John, the Tech J A W N. And I'm pretty much everywhere at Rob Dunwood. I'm looking here. It's like, you know, at Rob Dunwood, if you go to Twitter, I do have a blue check bar. Don't don't think less of me. Oh, I am. I am on mastodon. Are you a bot? I bought it for a year and I can't turn it off. Oh, I wonder how many people are like, Oh, man, just there and now I have to deal with all this. Anyway, go on, please. Or I'll go on. Well, good, good, good on you, Rob, for being with us today. Checkmark or not, we'll have you. We'll also have Marlon Thompson, one of our top lifetime supporters for DTNS. I guess Marlon is having us really. Marlon, thank you for all the years of support. Indeed, Marlon and all the patrons, stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet. We're going to be talking about mad scientists, heroes of our time, or both. Our Friday quiz, test the panel's knowledge of the entire history of modern medicine. The quiz doctor is in, folks, stick around. You can catch our show live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern, that's 2100 UTC, and you can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. We hope you have a wonderful weekend. We'll be back on Monday talking about if gamers over 50 are overlooked with Scott Johnson and Brian Ibbitt joining us. Talk to you then. This week's episodes of Daily Tech News Show were created by the following people, host producer and writer, Tom Merritt, host producer and writer, Sarah Lane, executive producer and Booker, Roger Chang, producer, writer and host, Rich Strafolino, video producer and Twitch producer, Joe Koontz, technical producer, Anthony Lemos, Spanish language host, writer and producer, Dan Campos, news host, writer and producer, Jen Cutter, science correspondent, Dr. Nikki Ackermans, social media producer and moderator, Zoe Dettarding, our mods, Beatmaster, W.S. Goddus 1, BioCow, Captain Kipper, Steve Godorama, Paul Reese, Matthew J. Stevens, a.k.a. Gadget Virtuoso and J.D. Galloway, mod and video hosting by Dan Christensen, music and art provided by Martin Bell, Dan Looters, Mustafa A, Acast and Len Peralta, live art performed by Len Peralta, Acast ad support from Tatiana Matias. Contributors in this week's show included Justin Robert Young, Scott Johnson, Megan Maroney, Rob Dunwood and Chris Christensen. Our guests this week were Annalie Newitz and Ruby Justice Thalo and thanks to all our patrons who make the show possible. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this brover.