 welcome back. We are so glad you're here. It's another day and it's another episode of the nonprofit show. Today we have with us Hawa Muhammad and she is the CEO of pink trumpet talking with us today about celebrity philanthropy. So this is going to be here. I want to say like a juicy conversation, right? Like hopefully you're gonna hopefully you're gonna spill the tea because I think all of that is appropriate for today's conversation. But before we do have you spill the tea all about celebrity philanthropy. We want to remind all of you who we are. If you're hearing us or seeing us perhaps for the first time. So hello to you Julia. Julia Patrick is the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy and I'm Jarrett Ransom your nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven group. We are so extremely honored to have the ongoing support the investment the partnership from these amazing companies. So a shout out of gratitude goes to Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University, nonprofit thought leader, your part time controller. Also so much gratitude to staffing boutique as well as nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. Again, many of these companies have been marching with us on this journey since the beginning of March 2020. So we are in our fourth year and have produced now nearly 900 episodes. We are so grateful for their support and encourage you to check them out because they're just good people. They're good people with good missions that want to help you do more good. So please do give them give them a look and see what they might be able to help you with. And if you missed any of those episodes that I just mentioned almost 900 you can find them on these platforms. So you can download the app scan that QR code and in just a couple of hours after this conversation with Hawa, you will get a notification that the episode has been uploaded. We're also on broadcast so you can stream us on a variety of broadcast platforms as well as podcast platforms. So again, just a reminder no excuse wherever you want to consume your entertainment, you can find us just about anywhere. So please, you know, if you have an interest in a certain topic, go ahead and check us out on these platforms. Hawa, so glad to have you with us here today joining us for the nonprofit show. Again, those of you watching and listening, we have Hawa Mohamed. She is CEO at Pink Trumpet. Welcome to you. Yes. Hi. So happy to be here. I'm really excited to just share a lot of my journey. And I'll start by just talking through Pink Trumpet. What started it, what it's about. So Pink Trumpet is a company that I started back in 2015. So it's been quite some time now, but really 2019 is when I died in full time. And I started it because I realized that in the nonprofit sector, we are not short of ideas. I always like to say that. But I think where we fall short is the implementation and the muscle behind that. And so that's why I started Pink Trumpet. I really wanted to help fill that niche and really help any kind of organization or idea get off the ground and get off the ground in all of the right ways, especially in ways that help them stay sustained. So that's a little bit about why I started it. It's called Pink Trumpet because when you hear the sound of a trumpet, you feel like you're about to see or witness something really grand. And so that's how I wanted clients that I worked with to feel that when I gave them this product or when I unveiled, you know, report or findings that they would feel like they could trumpet that out into the communities that they work with. And then I added Pink in there because every quarter, I haven't been up to date with it this year, but every quarter, I like to donate to an organization that supports for many girls. I love it. That is amazing. I am never going to hear a trumpet park and not think about that. That's really cool. I love that story. And I think Jared and I, we get to hear a lot of origination stories and that's that's one of the better ones I think we've heard. Okay, so as we were teasing you in the green room, we don't think you're one of the long lost Kardashian sisters. Who knows? But why and how have you come to this place of knowing how to work with celebrities in a philanthropic partnership? Yeah, so I'll start by sharing a little bit about my journey in the social sector. I won't make it too long. I've been working in the social sector since 2009. 2008 was when I had my first exposure to it. And it was abroad during an internship at the African Women's Development Fund. And that's what really made me say I want to be in this space. I really want to learn more about why organizations give to some nonprofits or others. And so that led me to working with a myriad of organizations ranging from the Posse Foundation to Home See Charitable Trust, to a charter school in Newark to working with Girls Inc. So I've really been very grateful for all of the experiences that I've had. And most notably, I worked with the Carolina Foundation, which was a foundation started by Rihanna named after her grandparents. And so after that experience, what I decided to do was really focus full time on Pink Trumpet. And part of that knowledge that came from not only the experience of working with the Carolina Foundation, but my experiences throughout, you know, people would tap me to say, Hey, I'm thinking about starting a nonprofit. What should I think about? Or I'm thinking about giving to this nonprofit? What should I think about? So all of those experiences, I think to help inform how I think about celebrity philanthropy, and also just all of the in betweens of working in the social sector and in the space. Yeah, I bet you have tons of really fun stories, you know, like, working with celebrities, athletes, which I think are also, you know, seen as celebrities, there's so much there. So if you would, let's let's dive into the first topic for today. And, you know, our time goes by so quick. So, you know, if you can touch touch on the celebrity concepts when it comes to philanthropy and our nonprofit organizations. And you know, one of the things we talk about Julie and I on on the show often is there are 1.8 million nonprofits registered in the US alone. So we're talking about a lot of organizations and I guarantee you how every single organization at some point has or will say, how do we find a celebrity to champion to champion our cause. So what is it like? Yeah, such a great question. You know, I think being on the other end of, you know, having worked for an organization that was led by a celebrity. I have observed that they really look for organizations that are consistent and have a track record in the work that they're doing. But I will also say oftentimes celebrities will point or appoint someone to manage the foundation and really make those critical decisions about who they want to identify why and why. And so it's really up to that person or team, I should say, to do the due diligence work, because one of the one of the fears that celebrities have when they make any decision to give is that they're giving to an organization or group that may have some shady background or will really come back and negatively impact that celebrity's status or reputation. So celebrities often do I think a good job of building a team that is really thoughtful about doing the due diligence before identifying an organization to partner and work with. Yeah. It's so interesting. I think it goes both ways. And I also think that you're somewhat tragically asking somebody who's been very successful in a very small part of their life to then amplify that impact into an area that they may not know or understand. And so, I mean, I don't know, it's almost like you're setting them up for failure because you're doing something that's very public for the most part. People are watching on all sides, right? It's kind of something that can be fraught with a lot of drama. And yet I feel like it's something that everybody pretty much wants to do when they get to that point. And do you think that's true? Do you think that's like a natural extension of success for these people? You know, it's interesting. I do think it's true. But I think that it is true where the older celebrities get. And I think that when I envision an arc of becoming famous, you know, there's that, you know, moment and time where you do want to give and you want to support communities. But then when you get older, let's say, look at Bill and Melinda Gates, you think, what is the legacy that I really want to build? So I think that there are phases to celebrity philanthropy that feel more amplified, depending on the age and where they're at in their lives, you know, you know, I look at celebrities who recently have had kids and you know, you also start to see where how that impacts what they give to and what issue areas they start to care about, because then it becomes, how do I create a better world for my kids and, you know, their generation? Yeah, yeah, that mission alignment might change, you know, might start at one space or place and then kind of evolve depending as, as their own life and situations evolve. All of this is fascinating, right? And I'm really curious how you, how you, I'm back to this trumpet, right? But like, how do you really park in the trumpet as Julia and sell it so eloquently to deliver a precise and effective communication in support, right? And in alignment with these, you know, celebrity philanthropies. You know, one thing I will say about, and this is true not just with celebrity philanthropy, but I would say it's especially magnified with celebrity philanthropy is that you really have to be concise, and you really have to provide that education in a very, you know, filtered but quick, direct, give it to me straight kind of way. And that's because most celebrities, as you mentioned, Julia, like, they are very good at this one thing that they've done. They don't know too much about nonprofit sector, the nuances of it, like, you know, you and I will probably throw around acronyms in this conversation. Like, what is all of that? That it doesn't mean anything. And so in the context of celebrity philanthropy, it's so important to really paint that picture of the problem. And why a certain kind of nonprofit is best positioned or best voice to solve it. But most importantly, that's where you can really have such an impact in breaking down myths. Because you can really take the time to explain to a celebrity. Here's why it's actually a better idea to give an unrestricted grant or grant that pretty much allows them to do anything. And what I appreciate about celebrities is that when they give, it's like, they automatically come from this place of, yeah, let's just do it that way, because that makes sense anyway. So it's like, they don't come with all of the things, the burdens and the, you know, the things that we carry, inherently, but just communicating and distilling that information and breaking things down is so important because I think that that also unlocks the way in which they choose to give and how much. Are you seeing this as well with athletes? And I mentioned, you know, athletes and celebrities. And that's a lot of athletes as celebrities, right? And so I don't think it's either or. But are you seeing this? I mean, when I think celebrities, I think I originally think, you know, the Taylor Swift, the Beyonce's, you know, the artist, but I'm also thinking athletes. So is this like synonymous with with all people that have, you know, a certain affluence of money? What is what does that look like? Yeah, it's interesting with athletes, what I've seen is usually the management company that they're working with will kind of support that philanthropic journey. So they may start an organization, but it will, it won't be a 501c3. It'll just sit under the philanthropic arm of that management company. So I don't know exactly what that education looks like for athletes. But at least from what I've seen, there is that appetite, there is that desire to give. I think my wish in general when it comes to celebrity philanthropy is that more time is spent with the athlete with the celebrity, really taking them to the beginning, middle and end, if there ever is an end to projects or initiatives that they start and really creating a through line for them to also connect with other kinds of philanthropists. That to me is is something that I wish for and is hopefully I think some of why I do the work that I do too. I'm sorry, Julia, I've heard of so many, like just very generous individuals, even down to the AI writer strike, you know, an acting strike, like there's a lot going on in this space and so much philanthropy also being given and supported during this time. But that brings us to is all of it positive, right? Like are we looking at the positive and the negative and I want to call out for both sides, you know, the celebrity as well as the charity. So how do we drive this positive media exposure for all parties involved? You know, it's so important that I think to your point, it happens on both sides, right? Not just the philanthropist that's able to say, hey, I did this really great thing, but also for the organization to be able to leverage that and turn that ideally into more dollars, more support in other forms. So I think it works both ways. I think that and maybe this speaks to something that I wish could happen more in the sector. But I think that more communication, ideally, and more transparency between the intent of the philanthropists, what do they really want? You know, as noble as their intentions are, sometimes there is also a strategy behind why they're doing what they're doing and how that fits with their bottom line. And so being upfront about that, but also identifying the right kinds of organizations that would benefit not just from that one time hit of we got money from this person, but what's deeper strategy to sustain that, you know, what's the follow through that will happen once that donation occurs. And so I think in an ideal world, you know, there would be more communication. There would be, you know, a way for nonprofits to actually get the attention of some of the celebrities that they really want in creative ways to start that conversation and then to keep that conversation going. And to be quite honest, you know, you might not want to be affiliated with certain celebrities at the same time, you know. So there's always a fine line that you have to maintain or strike. You know, who was to say that, you know, a big celebrity now won't go. I mean, who could have predicted some of the things that I think about Kanye West, for example, you know, would have done or said, and, you know, if you were an organization that received a lot of money, would you still want that affiliation? So I think that as a nonprofit, you always have to be cautious, but you always have to, I think, be reexamining and examining the partnerships that you have and are there ways to improve or should this be something that you step away from? And similarly, as a celebrity or athlete, you also have to be asking yourself that same question as well. You know, it's so interesting. I was just talking with a nonprofit probably in the last two weeks who has had a musician who's done a celebrity benefit concert for their organization for a number of years. And the team, the staff, the nonprofit staff, it stresses them out. They have, they're asked to do all these things. There's all these demands. The teams surrounding the celebrity, very hard to work with. And they kind of had a, as they say in my family, a Vanga Jesus moment, a Come to Jesus moment, where they said, what is the ROI on this and should we turn away from this particular celebrity? And my advice to them was, well, don't just stop it, but be exactly what you said transparent and have the chat and say, this is what our ecosystem is like. And this is what our talent pool is like. And this is what our costs are. And we, we don't know if we can move forward or can you help us to determine a path forward that works for everyone. And the celebrity was dumbfounded that his team behaved the same way as they did with like the concert venues. So like, you know, the old joke, you know, I only went the green M&Ms, you know, and the silver bowl, you know, that's kind of what they were doing to this nonprofit. And so by having this conversation, they kind of saved the marriage, if you will, and kind of came back around. Now, we will see as they move forward, you know, what happens. But it was a communication issue at the end of the day. I felt, you know, I felt it's a fascinating, fascinating thing. I've got to ask you one of the things that we all, this Jared said when we got started, we all think, oh my gosh, if we just had this one slab, then everything would be, you know, solved. But how do we begin? How do we even get in contact with somebody? I feel like everyone's going, I want Sarah McLaughlin too. Like why get Sarah? True. I mean, give us some wisdom here. We're lying. You know, believe it or not, social media can really be such a powerful tool in attracting the right celebrity. But I think what comes with social media and here's where I think organizations and people included might, you know, not heed that advice so much is that you have to be consistent and you have to show up. And I think that what attracts in my experience, what attracts, you know, what makes organizations or teams say, hey, celebrity, look at this person is the ability to point to that track record to say they've been doing all of these great things. They have, you know, checked all of the boxes in terms of, you know, the communities that they support, the outreach that they do, you know, they have a consistent habit of showing up, not just on social but for the communities. So I think that there's being present on social media and showing up, but then there's also, you know, being, I think, a little bit bold and, you know, saying, hey, celebrity, you know, we used to get a lot of, you know, people who would sing Brianna songs and like try and tie that into an appeal. But I think that there's that aspect. So there's the creativity there. But I think there's also just the creativity and saying, you know, I'm just going to make this bold ask. I'm going to tie it into what I think they're interested in. It's almost like a creative pitch for a job, you know, but to a celebrity or philanthropy. So I think using social though is a really great tool in that. Yeah, I'm curious about the influencer status now. Is an influencer a celebrity? Like are those synonymous or are they separate? And then where does that fall into the the service that you're offering and seeing in this space? Good question. Yeah, that's such a good question. Because I've seen a lot of companies that manage people who become influencers on YouTube. I'm seeing them also start to manage their philanthropic goals and help guide their giving strategies. So it's really, really fascinating. Personally, I I don't know if I ever if I would consider them celebrities, I think in some ways they are. My 13 year old absolutely does, right? Like it's because of reach. The reach that the influencer. Yeah, the influencer status is celebrity status to so many people. Yeah, it's crazy. And when you when I look at people like Mr. V's and how he's really just doing so much with philanthropy, then it's really fun to see that kind of celebrity influencer engage in philanthropy because I feel like that's where they really experiment in ways that feel exciting and in ways that you don't traditionally see in nonprofit organizations. You just made our executive producers day because he for four years has been saying, we need Mr. Beast, we need Mr. Beast. Same same as my son, who's 13, right? And so he has trained me on Mr. Beast and even so much so Hala that he says, Mom, if I ever ask you to take me somewhere and I don't exactly know the address, please, will you just take me because it's a Mr. Beast challenge? And so yeah, like looking at this from so many different angles, I feel like celebrity influencer, all of this, you know, it knows no age. It is really across demographics, you know, and and as it relates to organizations and it knows there's so many missions out there that I feel, you know, celebrities are tied to at any given time as we started earlier in the conversation. Hawa, you were so grateful to say, you know, and these missions might adjust ever so slightly or tremendous adjustments depending on what's what's happened in their life. Yeah, it's it's been amazing to to have you on and to kind of give us a different look into how this works. And I don't know about you, Jared, but it kind of Hawa's advice seems like it has made it more manageable, more organized and not so serendipity, not with not so much serendipity. Like, oh, my God, XYZ Rockstar happened to see this. And now we have something. It seems like you could really, you know, cultivate and curate how you want to go about this and not just hope that something falls in your lap. Right. Very interesting. Hawa, I'm curious what the work you do. And I know Julie is going to pull up your contact information. Are you and don't let me put words in your mouth, but are you a bit of a matchmaker where like if an organization says we're looking for this type of of individual to really champion our cause, do you serve in that role or how do you serve in this in this connection and do you? Yeah, good question. That's a great question. It's something that I've challenged myself to answer. How can I be effective at that? What does that look like? So I'm still kind of figuring that out. The closest that I've come is having a conversation with the organization to create that avatar, to create that ideal person and then say, OK, what are the tools that we can create on your end to make sure that you get that reach and you get that, hopefully, you know, support from the person that you're seeking help from. So yeah, thank you for that. I feel like, you know, we've all sat through many, many board meetings and a couple of things come up like we need more rich people, right? How do we find rich people and we need a celebrity? We need a celebrity to champion our cause. I mean, there's there's more kind of heinous things that are thrown out, right? But I feel like those are thrown out as if they're achievable overnight and they're not, right? And I also want to echo what I feel you've been saying, Hawa, during this time is like this is there's a method to this and there's a strategy and we want to take it seriously and maybe not have that commitment or marriage, if you will, to a celebrity overnight. We really want to vet for both parties, you know, for, again, all stakeholders involved. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I'll add to that is that while it's great to have the appeal and the name of a celebrity, that's sometimes where the buck stops only in the name, we have to remind these are really busy professionals. And so, you know, it's not like they may come to every gala or every event or things like that. So sometimes what I really encourage organizations do is to really leverage a grassroots approach to giving that can actually yield more money over a longer period of time. We know from giving USA that, you know, the largest influx of donations and support comes from individuals. And so there's really something to be said about if you really do want a celebrity, maybe there's a way to kind of engage them that can unlock those sustained dollars over time. But otherwise, there's also a need to really think through and optimize a grass a grassroots approach. Fascinating. Thank you for shining your light and the light on this conversation today. Again, those of you watching and listening, we've had the pleasure of Hawa Muhammad joining us today. She is CEO of Pink trumpet. Pink trumpet dot co is the website. And if you miss the origin story, you're going to have to go back and listen to it because it is nominal and you can find it on all of our broadcast channels in just a few hours later, it will be up as long as our executive producer is not hunting down Mr. Beast at this moment because he might be. But Julia, this was this was a great conversation. Always always excited to have gosh, so many different conversations, different angles and even in our almost 900 episodes, I don't think we we've talked about influencers, but we haven't died like really dove deep Hawa into this celebrity conversation. So thank you. Yeah, thank you. This is great. It's been a lot of fun. I mean, I think, Jared, to your point, you know, we've skirted around it and it's almost like if wishes were fishes, we'd all have a fry kind of thing. You know, yeah, that's what we need to solve all our problems. But it goes deeper than that is how it helped, you know, illuminate for us. Again, another piece of the illumination are our partners and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out so we can have really interesting conversations like we had today with Hawa. Join us again tomorrow. We have amazing guests on every day, as Jared said, never the same, you know, two days in a row or a week week after week. It always is so different. So really, really exciting. Hey, we're going to let you join in with us, you know, on our sign off and it goes like this. To stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here. Hawa, thank you so much. Yes, thank you.