 Back to think-tech. It's Wednesday. That means it's Trump week. I'm Jay Fiedel. We'd like to connect the dots on Donald Trump And there's certainly a lot of dots to connect. We have a lot of content to discuss with you and Tim Appichella is on the other side of this Tim. Good morning Good morning, Jay. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Well, we're obviously in an impeachment trial right now And it's it looks like it's going into You know the ninth inning without any witnesses although that hasn't been actually voted on yet Can you give us a pricey about the remarks that were made in the closing especially by the Republicans? And so far the questions that have been asked and answered in today's hearing Yeah, I would I also would like to just do a quick little summary of what a Thomas Friedman said About kind of where we've been for the last three days And I thought it was a really appropriate quote and I'm just gonna take a quick second Thomas Friedman He's well known of rights for the New York Times, I believe and he said the following How can the proof that Donald Trump use taxpayer funds? To try to force the president of Ukraine to solely the reputation of Joe Biden a political rival Possibly break through this unique trifecta of a president without shame Back by a party without spawning Reinforced by a network without integrity Boyd for me he hit it. He had a home run on the quotation. Yeah for me. It's an understatement That's my reaction to it nice Thomas, but it's still an understatement I won't go into the words that I might use for the same propositions. Anyway, so tell us what's been happening Well, we we've been hearing all sorts of them If you will a defense that's indefensible and that is they're they're talking about everything But the facts of the trial the facts of the case they're spending a huge amount of time on on Hunter Biden And again as we have said in previous programs What does Hunter Biden have with the impeachment articles against Donald Trump? They don't yet. That's where they're spending their time and energy on The other things is they're almost agreeing to the fact or the facts of the trial But they're just saying there's no crime here. Look at Dershowitz. I mean, he's basically saying nothing is seen as impeachable Well, how does he say that when it's a hundred percent reversal of what he said during the Clinton trial where he said these facts are Considered crimes. They are to be held as impeachable items So how do we get this big role reversal with Dershowitz and how do we get the the avoidance of the attorneys? That are glossed over the facts and just saying Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Um, you know, I it's extraordinary that they make such Inappropriate arguments they misstate the facts they mistake the law It's really an outrage that grown men, especially lawyers and United States senators and the lawyers for the Senate You know would would make those statements extraordinary and yet there they go every day And what and what strikes me is why? They're making cover. That's my short answer They're making cover for the Senate to rule that we don't need any further witnesses or evidence They're making cover for the Senate to acquit him and they're making cover for you know The people in the red states to his base to continue supporting Trump and all the while Trump is out and about looking like an unimpeachable president You know doing all these other things signing signing deals. Let's see just some of the things the MCA deal of Mexico and Canada has been cooking for a long time But he elects to have a big fancy signature ceremony now as if there was no impeachment going on and rallies in New Jersey Just as if there was no impeachment going on and trying to do a one-sided quote settlement and quote in Israel as if there was no impeachment going on and raising tariffs in China Against China as if we hadn't had a trade agreement Which he capitalized in two weeks ago now he's raised anything to get the needle off the impeachment hearing It's extraordinary how hard he tries to avoid, you know coming to grips with this proceeding And then of course he's tweeting I find it remarkable that he's tweeting facts that are alternative facts He's tweeting lies as he normally does. He must be in the 16,000 number already 16,000 yeah, yeah, and and he's tweeting lies, but he's not coming to testify under oath It's extraordinary how he throws this stuff under the on the roadway in front of you And you're supposed to listen to it The whole thing is calculated to confuse us and provide cover for these guys to do the wrong thing And indeed there's a fair chance they will do the wrong thing Anyway, what else do you take from it Tim? Well, I take a couple items number one is If it wasn't for the leak of Bolton's manuscript Um, we wouldn't even be having nearly the discussions we are about the possibility of having direct witness testimony from from Michael from Bolton and and or popular other documents Uh, the question is whether that's going to actually take place or not. We'll know in a few hours. I guess we'll know by tomorrow um That's an important part of this because if there is no direct witness testimony Then we're going to conclude this whole business And It'll be a sham as I said last week. It'll be a sham trial And the question is to what? What collective memory will the american voting public have that they just witnessed a sham trial? With no direct testimony or witness Well, a couple of thoughts on that if I might Um, number one is uh while he's tweeting all around. He's on a campaign against bolton Trying to attack bolton discredit bolton on talk about bolton's book. He's actually trying the case by twitter That's what he's doing and he's got all his friends around him doing the same thing It's a big move now is to discredit bolton in the possibility Uh, that that is going to leak about the book and the possibility that that bolton will will get a chance to testify And so he's trying the case He's trying the case for his base that rhymes He's trying the case for you know, the people in the senate who follow him blindly Robots or tomatons Okay, that's you know, that's one element here, but something else you said I would like to comment on You know, um They will likely quit because they're in lockstep with mcconnell and trump has Has been working behind the scenes to keep them in lockstep. Nobody's broken ranks yet. None of them 53 47 isn't it every single vote and you don't see anything different than that It's extraordinary that we pay their salaries. Give them all these perks We have the capital building. We allow them to run around the capital building and they do nothing Nothing and they just follow his instructions It is reminiscent of hitler and the enabling act in the rice dog in 1933 Where they voted the rice dog both houses voted to give hitler all the power It is chilling as a comparison But here's the thing you asked You know, whether the public will remember this the travesty of it the kangaroo court of it You'll remember they will they remember and the answer is we don't know for sure Because trump will try to distract them between now say february When this ends And november he'll try to get all kinds of other things on the plate Change the news cycle a hundred times Between now and he's very good at this and in november And the result he thinks will be the public will forget what happened And if they were angered by failure to put in evidence to allow evidence and witnesses and the total travesty of quitting him You know, he he may be right He he will try hard to do that And I think one of the things that he will do after the acquittal tim Is he's going to attack the press like crazy He's going to be attacking everything they say the new york times the washington post And you know, he'll be encouraged he'll be emboldened far more than before he'll be worse much worse After he's acquitted. I don't know why the republicans don't realize that And he's he's going to be Completely out of control and he's going to be attacking the media So the to change them What might otherwise be a concern about people remembering Travesty of this trial. Well, they may remember Nevertheless I think a number of people a lot of people will remember what happened here and I think Trump stands a good chance of losing congress in november elections He may even win as the president because of his machinations and is cheating on You know and suppressing voters and and bringing in other countries to manipulate our media But he may nevertheless and he may nevertheless win with all that And if he wins, he's got to face congress And if he faces congress, he may find congress is a different kettle of fish The democrats may wind up controlling the senate as well as the house Then he's a lame duck for the for that second term the whole second term This is you know, it's it's terrible to have him stay. It's terrible to have him win But if it happens, there's a fair chance He won't have the congress behind him anymore And we can take some distant comfort in that possibility I I would agree with a lot one of you just said but I I say look at the polls right now Let's look at the polling of Even republicans think that it's not a bad idea to have witnesses come in And those those numbers are in the highest evidence that there should be additional witnesses I think that's remarkable Again, I I think if witnesses are not allowed This will be enough of a staining for even those in the red states to remember. Hey, this wasn't a fair fight This wasn't a fair a fair trial As much as I know he has a loyal following I think americans still stay to themselves You know, let's have let's have fairness in our You know when it comes to justice and in a trial And I think without witnesses or documents, it'll be very very apparent to everyone That there's not fair and this thing was a complete champ So I think they will remember it and in your right j Donald Trump will do everything in his powers not only for him to discredit the media And change the subject But he's going to have his administration chiefs do it Pompeo comes to mind right now of how elam based there the npr reporter Mary louise kelly And trump is giving them nothing but accolades and praise for beating up the press. So you're dead spot on about his His his willingness to always throw the press under the bus and and and further throw them under the bus between now and the election You're absolutely right Well, don't forget dustin hoffman Dustin hoffman and the tail that wagged the dog Um, and that is a fabricated war a war that's generated for political or public relations purposes And uh, I think we've seen a certain amount of that already in this administration But you know the best way for a given Autocrat is to enhance his pat to enhance his power Is to create a war and then be a hero and You know and tell people that they need to get behind him In order to deal with the war This is very problematic because he's already demonstrated a kind of inclination to do those things So we have the middle east which is a tinderbox We have his kakamemi settlement deal with israel without without including the palestinians in the deal is extraordinary Um, I doubt that's going to work and in fact it may fan the flames It is fanning the flames And other things that he's doing on the international front that will fan the flames to say nothing to say nothing About the virus coronavirus and right after this break tim I want to talk about that. I want to talk about what he has done What the cdc has done And what chuck schumer had to say about it. We'll be right back after this short break Hello, ha i'm lillian cumick host of lillian's vegan world The show where we talk about veganism and the plant-based diet located in honolulu, hawaii I'm a vegan chef and cooking instructor and I have lots of Information to share with you about how awesome this plant-based diet is so do tune in every second thursday from 1 p.m. Aloha Aloha i'm dale and yanagita one of our hosts of our business in hawaii talk show on the think tech hawaii The theme of business in hawaii is to share with you stories of local businesses by local people And our guests share with us their journey to building a successful business right here at home We are streamed live on think tech weekly at 2 p.m. On thursdays. Thank you so much for watching our show I am dale and yanagita and we'll look forward to seeing you then Yeah, so I I am seriously worrying that trump will create an international incident controversy confrontation Or even if he doesn't him even if he doesn't create an international Confrontation fact is things are in place already to have one Even if he didn't there'd be things happening such as iran Who knows with a north korea? Just waiting for an opportunity to make trouble So, you know, we we have a serious problem I think it's true. I I agree that he has a pre-planned strategy But it's not working as you might imagine or anyone Let's just one example this attack on bolton All right, I think everyone under estimate just how powerful and respected Bolton is not only as a republican, but as a conservative And as try as they might throw bolton under the bus Um, that may not work so well with a lot of these republicans Well, you know, let me let me offer an alternative possibility Maybe one that is compelling So bolton doesn't get thrown under the bus at least he is permitted to testify And mcconnell has suggested that and the polls show that As you said 75 of the country wants to see witnesses and documents, although I think that really means 75 of the country wants to see bolton They want to see confirmation affirmation of what they have heard is in his book Regardless of, you know, trump's campaign to discredit him, maybe because of it Okay, so there's a fair chance that mcconnell can't stop that That there's there are people leaving the ranks In the senate and demanding that he allow bolton to testify And then what happens is there's a vote on bolton Not on all of them, but on bolton Uh, I I I would I had to take to think what would happen if we got into a thing about the biden's That would be just ridiculous But bolton so bolton testifies and there's a lot of cross examination and they try to discredit him In his testimony in the senate and they make all kinds of stink about him and what a bad person he is and How he's disloyal trump trump called him, um, a, um Um, uh What's the most what's the most The strongest possible term, uh, anyway, he's he's called them all kinds of names in the last day or so Reason is some trader a trader. Thank you. Uh, and so, you know, um It's not clear that even if bolton testified in a way The democrats would like to see him testify in a way that's consistent with his forthcoming book That his testimony will get through unscathed It'd be subject to some blistering cross examination in that hearing Okay, so then We have that And 75 of the country can say they had their way We had a witness. He was an important witness and that's over and now Bolton who is, you know, was he's got bandages all over from the blistering cross examination Um, has been heard Okay, the vote goes forward the vote to acquit or to impeach What do you think's going to happen? You know, do you think mcconnell is going to lose his moxie there? Uh, is he going to you know, is he going to lose control of that vote the vote to impeach or acquit? What do you think because I don't think he's going to lose that that leverage I think you'll be able to control that and the result is that even after bolton testifies He'll be an acquittal. What do you think? Well, I think that's being played out right now with mcconnell. That's why he announced early About the fact that he doesn't have the votes to overturn or your block Potential republicans who want to vote for witnesses His strategy is to let these poor republicans that might have just started to grow a spine Get completely bludgeoned By their constituents and and from the news media And from fox news and from trump and from everyone So he's he's starting to implement that strategy early on. So yes, he's definitely going to try it again You say don't even think about voting for impeachment and removal of office And I think you'll be successful at that. I don't think we have a prayer that don't comes going to be removed from office Yeah, right because he's got control on that issue And uh, you know, you won't get 75 to say That trump should be acquitted impeached You'll get you know a much smaller percentage maybe just over half when you go on that question But anyway, I mean this is you know, this is a historical moment We're talking about the making of a dictator. We're talking about the emergence of an Hitler-esque type character running the whole government as a sole proprietorship and doing what he wants If he is acquitted I think we're going to see that and it will be very scary and it will affect everybody in this country I don't think people fully understand how it will affect them But every federal rule Every possible statute Every possible executive order Is something that it could affect you And on top of that he's messing things up globally Um, and uh, you know that will affect us too I don't think we can assume anymore that today will that tomorrow will be like today and it'll all be just fine Even though that's what trump said Um, you know after the uh, the attack on an american base in iraq. He said sleep well tonight really In fact, he was lying 34 soldiers were were wounded from a shell shocked as a result of that he lied to us again on a critical thing I wonder how the military guys feel about that and now most recently he said the same thing With regard to um the coronavirus He said he said not to be concerned Uh, don't have to worry Really? You know, how did he does he have information? We haven't seen that he can say such a thing And senator chuck schumer got up and made a statement in the middle of the impeachment Um proceedings a couple days ago To remind us that the cdc has the power to declare a health emergency and immediately spill 85 million dollars into healthcare and protection against the epidemics But the cdc and that's another way of saying trump hasn't done that It didn't do it up to that point when schumer made his statement and it hasn't done it since So trump still takes the same position small stuff Don't worry about it. I worry about it. We've had several shows here on You know and think tech which make me worry a lot about it And the numbers who read every day in the new york times of washington post Makes me worry about it. What is trump going to do about that? He's not doing anything He's not even releasing the funds to declare an emergency and take, you know health health You know steps to protect the country I find that quite remarkable I I think I see a Kind of a polarization here on one hand. You're right. He's now releasing 85 million But on the other hand, I've never seen the cdc act with such speed to start Monitoring people at all these these airports In the in the country. I mean lightning speed to start Basically testing people as they're you know coming into the airport We haven't seen that before even with the ebola here during the obama Administration they moved kind of clumsy clumsily and slow not this time So something's really going on here as far as i'm concerned because I don't see my my federal government move with this kind of speed and efficiency and it is happening now and I just have to ask the question is nothing to worry about Well, I don't agree with that and don't trump as usual Is beyond 16 000 lives and I think it's just one more to add to the list Right, you know on top of you know his dismissal of the earthquake damage and the storm damage in portorico and all those other humanitarian issues He's really not doing and the 85 million it wouldn't go to closing airports or You know taking temperature of arrivals It would go to looking at the genome What's what I find interesting is the chinese although their health system is in many ways You know below western standards their science isn't and their scientists have mapped the genome for this virus Immediately and they have it and more than that they have shared the genome with the world And and it's kind of a race to find a vaccine to you know to take a look at this genome And find a vaccine that will save people from from the scourge which is going faster every day I mean the the you know since yesterday a thousand more people in china have caught the disease and a number of people have died Over it. Uh, it's it's getting way up there We the world needs to take Strong action that 85 million would help the united states Stay at the top of the of the medical research You know community Fact is I think other nations are moving faster Novartis was recently quoted to say With given the current, you know efforts, it's going to take a year Before any vaccine will be will be Created and so I don't think trump understands that maybe it's ignorance But more likely it's just not caring about people not caring about this issue and only caring about himself Oh, come on. He's worried about the stock market flowing because On the first real day of the announcement the stock market fell 400 points as a concern about what's going on in china and You know possible ramifications of that Secondly is how rare is it? How rare is it That china has been forthcoming to share information And share with everybody that is really an anomaly And I that again is this one more piece of evidence to say this thing is a lot more serious than we're led to believe Yeah, and so there's another mouse that roared issue Um, maybe up its sleeve. Is it, you know, if and when and I think it's mostly when this gets to be clearly a world epidemic uh, then uh, he can he can rise to greater power and Take over as more of a more of an autocrat in order to You know step in and solve the problem, which I think you'll have a lot of trouble doing This is what Cynthia and I'm sorry. We we haven't had her on the program lately. She's you know, Hasn't been able to come in But this is what Cynthia was concerned about is he would find stomach use To declare a national emergency And basically to spend all sorts of constitutional provisions Right over the wall But not this You know, I guess, you know what we have a minute left him and I just want to cover one other thing and get your reaction That is history is unfolding History is unfolding in the senate right now today those guys lying and you know using contorted inappropriate arguments to try to confuse the senators um Parley trump's Arguments through their mouths to confuse everyone and to distract everyone And the senate will probably vote to acquit They will be judged by history. Unfortunately, they'll be out of office by the time it takes it takes effect But I think you know in the years to come United States will be judged by what happens in the senate now And certainly the people who make this vote will be judged by what happens in the senate now And the judgment will not be kind At the same time We the people who live under this government We will be judged also And we will suffer mightily every one of us by virtue of what happens Comment you have 20 seconds Common is I couldn't agree with you more and where are where are the uh, the people out this street? Where did they go? Where is the protest that is still badly needed? Where are the calls to their to their senators and their congressmen saying knock this off? They're deaf. They're mute. They're not saying a word All right, Tim. Thank you for having me on all right next week I really enjoy these conversations. I think they are important for the public discourse. Aloha Aloha