 Hello everyone, and welcome to the seventh event of the Safe Heavens Freedom Talk series. This time in collaboration with Shootershore. My name is Marta Möstürk and I'm a communications officer at Safe Heavens and Freedom Talks. Today I'm very happy to introduce Ahmedur Shavduri, also known as Tutu and Liza Irene Knight. Tutu is the publisher editor and co-director of Shootershore and Liza is the editor and co-director of Shootershore since 2018. In today's talk they will have a conversation on Shootershore's story and some challenges faced by exiled artists. And I will leave the word to Liza after we see the video of the editors of Shootershore. Hello, my name is Iqtasad and this is a great honour for me to be a member of Shootershore's editorial board. Shootershore and its founder Ahmedur Shavduri, or Tutu Liza as he's lovingly known to us, are inseparable. Tutu Liza is one of those rare individuals who believes truly and firmly in the power of words. It is even more remarkable in today's world where the cynic would suggest that words have next to no power as lies and depression have free rein. That has only made the fire burn even more fiercely within Tutu Pai. He and by extension his baby, Shootershore, waged a two and a half decade long war between free thinking and fundamentalism for the very soul of Bangladesh. They were the protagonists and they paid a heavy price for that. Fundamentalists wish to assassinate Tutu Pai and when the machetes fell on him that ended Shootershore as a publisher. Not to be deterred, this man whose idealism is a true inspiration. You only need to spend a minute in his presence to be overwhelmed by this man who remains optimistic and idealistic, who remains committed to free speech and free thinking even though they nearly cost his life. And by remaining committed against all odds, against all sense, he has taken that vision, that battle of his from being that of one for the soul of Bangladesh to a global commitment to free thinking, to progressivism, to allowing marginalised, vulnerable and depressed people to speak and be heard. Hello, my name is Ibtasam Ahmed. I am one of the contributing editors at Shootershore. I first got involved with Shootershore as a regular contributor for some of the magazine issues. The ethos of uplifting marginalised voices really spoke to me as a queer Bangladeshi. I come from a country where my sexuality continues to be a criminal offence. And knowing that Shootershore as a printing press, and then later on as an online magazine, continued to support the community and continues to support the community that is at risk, despite the risk that that then brings to Shootershore itself really touched me. And I was so fortunate to contribute to some pieces. I wrote for a few different issues and then I was fortunate enough to be asked to come on board as a full-time contributing editor and it is a decision I'm so glad I made when I said yes. It was a wonderful full circle moment when I got to help with the LGBTQ plus special issue. So going from someone who couldn't openly talk about my sexuality to then helping in my own small way, shaping a special issue on queer rights was amazing. And Shootershore continues to do that. It continues to be a space of empowerment for marginalised communities and for marginalised voices. And for that reason I am eternally grateful to the rest of my Shootershore colleagues. And I'm so grateful to have this opportunity to share this experience. And I hope, in spite of others, to support Shootershore and platforms like it, because we need more spaces like it. We need more protections. We need more freedoms. And this is the best way to do it. So thank you very much. I got involved with Shootershore by a happenstance. Iqizal Ahmad, a major writer, friend of ours, introduced me to Ahmad al-Shatidjul, who was looking for people to write for Shootershore. Now I realise that as an exam writer I was always meant to be a print of Shootershore, a magazine ran by an exam editor and publisher. Being a print of Shootershore means a lot to me. In a new country, in a new society, exam writers have to rediscover themselves. They have to motivate themselves to renew their sense of purpose, to continue with their intellectual endeavor. I'm thankful that Shootershore exists for it provides a platform for people like us considered various by their own countries. For it offers a virtual sanctuary to continue with our intellectual struggle. Readers who are interested in reading stories that remain unread and are not heard in the cacophony generated by social media platforms will find Shootershore publishing stories that address the human condition often from the perspective of those marginalised. This is what makes Shootershore unique and special. He brought us on board to assist him, not that he needs any assistance, but to participate I suppose in this journey of his. We hope to remain with him, knowing full well that as long as we are guided by his principles and his vision, we in Shootershore will remain a force for good in a world that desperately needs it. We welcome all of you to share in our journey to participate by reading us, by writing to and for us, by sharing with us not only the struggles that the world is up against but the beauty to be found within those, the pockets of progressivism and resistance that are springing up wherever the might of oppression seems to devastate communities and societies. Thanks to the freedom talk team and Safe Muse, Fredric, Meltem and Yon for inviting Shootershore to speak about our journey. Listening to our editorial board, I am emotionally moved and inspired. I am very grateful for the efforts and great ideas from Iktisha Ahmed, Iktisha Ahmed and Siddhartha Thar. Thank you everyone for joining us today. I also want to thank the freedom talk team and Safe Muse for this opportunity. Tutu, I want to start with asking you a question. This journey of yours, this journey of Shootershore, has been a long and winding road. You didn't expect to be here or you are now in Norway working on an online Shootershore platform to what has now become a wide and diverse international audience. So tell us something about how you started this journey. Thank you, Lisa. My childhood was not very colorful. I grew up mostly alone, which was unusual in Bangladesh. Today things are different. There's a different type of being alone today. When I look at my own children and their mobile-centric lonely lives, I cannot no longer think of my childhood as lonely. So whatever the reason, maybe it was due to a lack of opportunity to keep busy or I just got addicted to reading the newspaper. I don't know. Each evening, newspapers used to come to our district town and I would rush to look for the newspaper. So I think that's how my acquaintance with politics, literature, and other writings began. These things were in the newspapers and I found more opportunities to gain more knowledge. I love that image of you rushing after school to compete with your father to get to the newspaper first. It's a real evocative kind of image. It's also around this time that you became acquainted with the Little Magazine movement. And this is really important for understanding not just them, but also its current mission and practices today. So for those listeners who aren't familiar with Little Magazine, this is a term that refers to literary periodicals that became especially popular in the early 1900s in cities like London, Paris, and some major U.S. cities like Chicago and New York. In the 1950s, the Little Magazine also became popular in South Asia where you had numerous Little Magazines popping up in different regional languages. Little Magazines produced some very significant writers and people who became famous later, but the magazines themselves often didn't last very long because they were more focused on experimentation and political and social criticism than about commercial success. Yes. So just through this kind of open school or curiosity that I came to know about the Little Magazine, I was then in the 11th grade, just then the idea of Shuddhashur came to my mind. I didn't know how to publish a magazine, so without any experience, I planned the magazine. At the young age, I used to think of poetry as meditation, as love, philosophy, and everything. So there's the first issue with the issue of poems. So however, the most difficult task was to collect ads. We needed ads, but after the magazine was published, most of the advertiser would not pay the money. So eventually I sold my favorite camera to cover the cost of printing. So this is the beginning of Shuddhashur. So I want to return to this financial aspect again later, but first let's talk about the philosophy of Shuddhashur when you started the Little Magazine. Initially, the philosophy was not very organized. We were very young. Just finished our secondary school. We were attracted to the Little Magazine platform as a free independent platform. Through Little Magazine, we could practice political theory and debate outside the normal partisan politics. We were able to experiment with ideas and different forms of writing. So Little Magazine also clarified our position about discourse and analysis, because we were not limited by mainstream commercial media. Shuddhashur's slogan says something important about our philosophy. Our slogan is to inspire, not to impress. So Little Magazine is never a commercially driven platform. So it is usually not a large platform at all. Yeah, that's not true. But nonetheless, Shuddhashur eventually did become established. It became established as a publication house. And some of the photos that will be shown shortly from the Shuddhashur's book launches and annual Ekushi Book Festival in Dhaka, these were very festive events, very exciting events that brought together many new established writers, women writers, LGBTQ writers, and lots of interested and curious readers. So Shuddhashur did become quite significant in Bangladesh as a publication house. So since exile, since restarting Shuddhashur online, what has changed in that original philosophy? You know, Lisa, Shuddhashur is still being conducted based on these same concepts. First of all, we have been committed from the very beginning to promote new and young writers. We're excited to invite and encourage young writers with good, interesting ideas and give them a chance to develop their thinking. Yes, and I think that is so important. From my own personal experience and as a teacher, I find that writing is such an excellent process for thinking. So when I start to write something, for example, usually my ideas are all over the place. Maybe I have a couple of good ideas here and there, but they don't really make any sense together or make any significant contribution until I start working them into a piece of writing. And it's probably also because of this process. It can be a painful process. It's a challenging process, but I also really, really love working with students and our interns who write for Shuddhashur just to see them develop as well. Yes, that's right. Also as before, Shuddhashur is working to increase the scope of what I like to call the third eye, the scope of clear human vision and thinking. People can acquire the ability to make good decisions if they can look at any issue multidimensionally and consider it from different perspectives. So we believe that such a multidimensional view of people, a sense of consideration will promote democratic, humanistic and a fair and just society. So multidimensional thinking will motivate to frame all kinds of conflicts. That's a really interesting concept about multidimensional thinking. And it makes me think about the themed issues that we publish, which are focused on a single topic, like exile or racism or authoritarianism. And each of these issues, we have something around 20 or so writers, students, academics, activists, you know, everyday people who focus on that one topic from their different perspectives. And it's never that all perspectives are presented. That's not possible. And we've talked, we've often talked about how some voices are missing in a particular issue. But we've tried to highlight marginalized voices to encourage that multidimensional thinking that you're describing about a particular subject. So, but before dig in a little bit more into the current magazine, let's make sure we discuss what led you into exile. This is a story I know you've told many times and some of our listeners are familiar with us already. But it continues to be really important for understanding your current situation and also the situation of Shudashwar as well as its current mission. So if you don't mind, for those who don't know your story, could you say a few words about why you had to leave Bangladesh? You know, Lisa, actually, I do not feel good to repeat the situation. But for your request, I'm telling now, you know, in 2013 to 2016 in Bangladesh, many bloggers, writers, publishers, activists were killed by Islamic extremist group. That time was also the tragedy at the Holy Artisan Cafe in Dhaka where many people, including many foreigners, were killed by extremists. As a progressive and controversial book publisher, I also received many threats. In 2015's October 26th, one of the Shudashwar's writers, Abhijith Roy, everybody knows him, was attending a book launch program in our bookstore during a very popular annual month-long acoustic book fair. After the program, when he left the book fair by his side entrance, he was attacked and killed by an extremist group. In the same year, another of our writers, Anant Abhijay, was also hacked and killed. On 31st October 2015, I and two writers were discussing in my office. At this time, some extremists attacked my office and tried to kill me. Two writers tried to stop them. They were also severely injured. Extremists left my office and locked all of the gates. But luckily, we survived and were hospitalized. When I was in the hospital, I got the invitation from ICON. Due to security concerns, I and my family played to the neighboring country. Then two and a half months later, we came to Norway. It's such a difficult narrative to try to put yourself into the shoes of what you were going through at that time. What you and your family were going through. Others and your friends and colleagues were facing. I know it was a very, very traumatic and frightful time. When you came to visit my university, you came and talked to students in my class. I remember very well one of the statements that you made that day when a student asked a question about whether or not you would want to go back to Bangladesh. Do you remember this? Yes. You replied, very simply, you just replied, my bags are packed. That really affected them. It helped them to understand that exile, you're leaving Bangladesh, leaving Bangladesh, that wasn't a choice. It wasn't something that you planned on or envisioned for your future. Naturally, the place where people grow up is a comfortable place for them to work and also for their family and social life. For me, everything was based in and about Bangladesh. So my activities were based in Bangladesh, my poetry, all of my connections, all the books we wrote and published, those were in Bangladesh. So that was everything we worked on. It was really painful to leave. It still is painful. So yes, if I get an opportunity, I want to go back there. So my suitcase is ready. But at the same time, I think of myself as a world citizen. I think my present place is also my place. So Lisa, I have a question to you. You have been doing lots of research work on exile. So what have you learned? Yeah, thanks for that question. And I appreciate also just your last statement about how your present place is also your home that you feel an identification to where you are now. So when I was interviewing you and many others and when we published that exile issue, one very clear theme that emerged was that exile isn't really a choice, right? Like what we were just saying. So many of the writers in our magazine issue are people who are in exile because their lives are in danger at home, whether it's because of their identity, their LGBTQ or other parts of their identity, or their political views or their attempts, maybe as journalists or poets or writers to write and speak freely against authoritarian regimes. So several of our writers come from ICORN, which is International Cities Refuge Network and PEM. Both of these are organizations that specifically aim to protect writers and artists at risk. So that's a network that we've worked quite a lot with. So also what I've learned is how precarious and uncertain life in exile continues to be. So yes, sure, people are safe, which is great. But that hasn't solved the problems of trauma, of dislocation, of losing everything and having to start all over again in a new country with new social expectations, new language. So simple things like knowing how to, what to say to people, how to behave, how to make contacts or friends. These are really hard things, especially as adults. So it's one thing if you're a younger person going, you know, moving into a different country. But as adults, it's a harder thing for sure. So there's a lot of anxiety around trying to understand simple things like why there's no invitation for a cup of coffee or why people don't reply to emails. These kinds of things, which normally would just be annoying to most of us, can be really enormous and add to the experience of trauma and worry. And the last thing I'll mention too is how surprised people I've met are at being called refugees. And I think a lot about these different categories and what they mean to people, both the people who are labeled to those categories and what they mean to outsiders, whether it's, you know, with people in the community or in the state structure. So those in exile can't believe that they're categorized and viewed as refugees, that they're in this kind of situation at all because this wasn't their life plan. For them, like for all of us who have homes and lives, refugees are other people. So it's really disorienting to be called a refugee. For exiled writers and artists that you and I've been talking with, they were, and I think it's so important to remember, they were somebody back home, right? They had jobs, prestige, network. But now not only are they struggling to find their way in society in a new country, but many also face discrimination such as racism or Islamophobia in their daily lives or in the systems that are supposed to support them. So these kinds of challenges are really what motivated us as we worked on that exile issue. And we definitely, definitely plan on having more issues focusing on other aspects of exile. But for that issue, we wanted to focus on the pain of being an artist in exile. So we were asking questions in our minds because a lot of people were asking these questions too. Why doesn't the exiled person continue writing or doing the artwork or journalism? What's preventing that person, right? That creative person who was really very, very active in their previous life, what's preventing them from doing their creative work? How can we help motivate them? So we really wanted to hear those stories and their social problems, depression, trauma. We also hoped that readers would listen to these stories, have some empathy, try to understand things more fully, hopefully take action even in small ways to help exiled artists and writers come out of their difficulties so that they can be productive again because that is what they want to be, right? They were productive previously and that is definitely what they want to be now. So let's talk about some of the other magazine issues. We've published many themed issues on topics like authoritarianism, racism, feminism, LGBTQ, and many other subjects. What we found is that people are really worried about the direction of the world and the ongoing challenges. And as an editor for me, it's really exciting to see that people have things that they want to say about these topics. And many of them are saying interesting and provocative things. So each time we published something, I always learned something new and that's very exciting. Now Shoot the Shore has published two magazine issues on poetry, one in December 2019 and now, just now this month, we published another issue on poetry. Now, I know that publishing poetry is personally very meaningful to you, Tutu. You, as you said earlier, you inaugurated your very, very first issue of The Little Magazine in 1990 with poetry. You write poetry yourself. A book of your own poetry was published by another publisher. You also refer to yourself as a poetry activist. But say something about some of your thinking about this particular, these issues that we've published. What was your reason for asking poets to reflect on their motivations and their writing and to respond to predetermined interview questions? Why not just publish their poetry? Yeah, we published poetry and also related questions. So I consider myself a student of the world and I strongly believe people can gain more ideas when they read. But I know that not everyone likes to read poetry. So it's a very practical. But if they read the interviews, I hope they will understand how poetry relates to politics, philosophy, and everyday life. So I hope they will become curious about also the poetry. So for that, actually, we decided we will publish poetry with interviews. I love that. And I know that these kinds of interviews and responses to these questions also can be very inspiring to young writers. And I hope that viewers, even people who don't think that they like poetry, will check out the amazing poetry that we've published in these issues. Because many of them are very thought-provoking. Many of them are original compositions that have just, you know, this is the first time they've been published. So really, please check them out even if you don't think you like poetry. So Kutul, this month's issue is specifically on political poetry. There's a long history, as you, of course, know of Bengali political poetry. Yeah, you're right. Historically poetry is Bangladesh. It's very political. Poets have been vocal about all kinds of human rights. Sometimes these political messages are very direct, but sometimes the messages are indirect, abstract, you know? Yes, right. So in fact, this is very similar to folk songs, folk tradition in the Bengal, the greater Bengal region. So I'm thinking, like, for example, of the songs of Lalonsha. Lalonsha. Or Lalonsha here. In these songs, there are always these, you know, external meanings as well as internal meanings. And so when taken at face value, if you listen to a song, it may sound like it's about God or about everyday life, but under the layers, there the songs are about other subjects like women's rights or critiques about religious conventions and taboos or about discrimination and caste system. And this to me is really the beauty of Bengali poetry and songs, right? Is that there are these multiple layers of meaning, the evocative imagery from everyday life and the intense passion, whether that passion is for a human, a country, the divine or the divine within all humanity. It's just a beautiful part of Bengali poetry. But the poetry that you help select in political poetry issue in that last article in particular, those were not abstract kinds of songs. They were very direct and strong. And that's true also with the very first poem by Qazi Nazrul Islam, right? So say something about why you and Iqtishad selected the poems for that last article that she worked on. Actually, we selected some modern political poetry that are strong and resonate with us personally. The eight poems in that last article, which Iqtishad translated so wonderfully, they're very significant. So they are about political events in Bangladesh and the Greater Bengal, the language movement, 52's language movement, 69's people movement, 71's independence war, martial law and the dream for an equal and just society. So these statements are very direct. Only Shukanta Bhattacharyas is not so contemporary. His poetry deals with the British period before 1947. So his poems were against colonialism. Lisa, I have another question to you. Can you tell our viewers about Shuddhushar's other activities? Yeah, of course. So we've talked a lot about the magazine issues. And so that's definitely a very important part of the platform, the Shuddhushar platform, but Shuddhushar has grown in many ways. So we have other sections too. We have essays with long form podcasts, the image on the screen there is of our most recent podcast, which was with Lila Byers who published an article on for the body politics issue, which was the previous magazine issue. We also contribute statements to express solidarity with an individual or group that is under threat. So for instance, we just posted a statement about Afghanistan expressing concern and solidarity for the Afghan people. We also have a section on book and film reviews that are relevant to the kind of overall message of Shuddhushar. And I'll add that recently the editorial board made a, what I think is a really great decision about our four annual being based issues, right? So we published four issues for the magazine each year. And so what we've decided is that one issue is going to focus on creative work like poetry or short stories and things of that nature. Another issue. So each year we'll focus on something that's a bit more abstract, like what we did with the body politics and a future one we'll be doing is going to be on public art. And then the other two issues per year will focus on, I guess you could say more tangible political subjects like authoritarianism, blasphemy and so on. So related to that, then our next issue is going to focus on the climate crisis. And that would be published in November, November 1st. We plan these issues ahead about six or nine months. So please be sure to look at our social media and definitely visit our Shuddhushar platform regularly because there's all kinds of things that we're doing all the time. We have also interesting section. It's an interview and we already published some interesting interview. Yes, that's right. Thank you for that's absolutely right. We have had some great interviews and are looking forward to more of those. Now Tutu, I know that one of your dreams has been to return to publishing books. Say something about that. Yeah, since October 31st, when I was attacked. 2015. So I have been looking for a way to get back into book publishing. So despite many attempts, I was unable to continue publishing in Bangladesh. Personally, I have had to face extreme economic losses also. But publishing is more than a business for me. It is also a passion. So I believe text is the most powerful weapon. Yeah, I feel like that's another one of our mottos, right? Is the pen or the text as a powerful weapon to fight discrimination and to have a voice in all these debates. So I should add also that it's no coincidence that the LGBTQ e-book is your first choice in this upcoming, maybe hopefully series. So why, I mean, I know why, but for our viewers, say something about why this particular issue is important to you. You're right. There are many misconceptions regarding LGBTQ even in developed countries. The people of this group are subjected to hatred, discrimination and torture. The situation in South Asian countries is even worse. Unless the general public as a whole has rational knowledge about this topic, nothing will work. So this was basically the purpose of our full magazine issue dedicated to LGBTQ. In addition to this, Shuddhushar published a book on homosexuality and love by Objit Roy. Because of those books, the author was killed and I was threatened as a publisher. So as an individual and as an organization, we feel a responsibility for these topics and this community. So all of this is a continuation of our sense of responsibility. So I think that's so important, right? Shuddhushar plans to start the book journey again by publishing a book on the subject about which you were attacked and which caused Shuddhushar, or at least was one of the contributing reasons for Shuddhushar to stop all activities in Bangladesh. That book is tentatively called reimagining queer utopias voices from South Asia. One of the previous slides showed the call that Shuddhushar was talking about earlier. We have a really great team of experts working on this now. It's going to be, I'm really excited. It's going to be a unique and important contribution to understanding the views and hopes of the queer community in South Asia from their varied perspectives, right? Because we have to remember that there's not a monolithic group that we're talking about, and they are indeed very varied. So it would be interesting to look at this book. And then, I think, and Tutu, we're working on a few other books. Is that right? No, we're also working on a few more books. Initially the books will be published in e-book form. Then we'll try to take initiative to make a print version. So we've talked about Shuddhushar's history, philosophy, magazine issues, and future plans. I'm sure when you started this online journey, people, in 2017, you did not know where the journey would go. Yes. Actually, I was worried. I was confused. I was scared. At the same time, I made a promise to myself. So I was ready to face any kind of obstacle, any kind of resistance or non-cooperation. After one year, I convinced you, means Lisa Knight to write for Shuddhushar. By the time I invited many people, I made to contribute an article. In 2018, you, means Lisa Knight, made with me for research work with many long, long questions. You interviewed me with many different angles, with many cross-questions. You also talked to my family members. Then you understood my thinking, my plan, philosophy about Shuddhushar. After that, you, Lisa Knight kindly agreed to become involved with Shuddhushar. Yeah. I have to admit, working with Shuddhushar was not part of my original plan. Not at all. My research, as you know, because of all the questions that I was asking you, and the many other exiled Bangladeshis, was really focused on everyday lives of exiled Bangladeshis and sort of their visions for continuing their work and their connections with Bangladesh and their current circumstances. Can you tell us how are you motivated and influenced to join Shuddhushar? That's such a great question. I think some of this goes back to the spirit of the little magazine and the way that you work to try to motivate and activate people to think. So, you asked me to write an article about American politics. And this was in 2018. And I was a little bit dumbfounded. I didn't know how I was going to write this article. I didn't know, I wanted to say no. This is not my area of expertise. But even more than that, it was also really a frustrating and challenging subject. So, it took me a long time to write. It was really difficult to write. I wanted to explain things from different perspectives. But I really struggled also with my audience. And I don't worry about this with a lot of the writings that I have to do for my own work. But in this case, because it was Shuddhushar, it was an international platform, I had to grapple with how to explain US political situation to people who were in Norway, in South Asia and in America and elsewhere. And that made me think hard, right? And in general, writing just really makes me think hard. And in teaching, I know how important writing is. Writing clarifies your ideas or reveals holes in your thinking, inconsistencies in your thinking. But so that was, you know, sort of the first steps like, wow, okay, this is really interesting, getting challenged to write about these kinds of topics. But the idea of encouraging people, whether it's young people or experienced people, to write for this platform, not for a class assignment, which I do all the time. It was exciting. I saw how you pushed people to write, because that's what I experienced. And it was great. It's like making people eat their vegetables for their good health. And so really, more people to eat vegetables. So that was great. And I also have to say, I resonated with the ideals of Shudasur. In my early research, which you know about, I had worked for several years with the Bowels in West Bengal and Bangladesh. So I already adopted a concern for marginalized voices, which Bowels seek to support through their songs and other ways. And Shudasur is concerned with marginalized voices also, and seeks to work toward a more egalitarian, just and democratic society by providing a space for those voices and to inspire each other and inspire readers. So now, you know, this wasn't part of my earlier research. It was about the voices that I'm concerned with that is the concern of Shudasur includes the voices of exiles. So that's been a meaningful experience for me. I have to admit, it's been probably one of the most meaningful activities that I've been involved with. So thank you for making me talk. Thank you. Yes. So we want to now hear from you about our viewers, our means of the shows and other progress activities. Great. Okay, so since January 2017 until now, August 2021, we've published nearly 700 pieces. That means mostly articles, but also statements and podcasts and interviews and reviews and so on and so forth. We have had the privilege to include writers that are some of them who are really widely known, academics, scholars, activists, poets. So some names I just bring to mind are like Wendy Doniger, Gayatri Chakravartis-Vivak, Mariam Helé-Lucas, Jean-Fabrie Sada, Sajed Kamal, Sindhra Bangstad, Aldrid Engelston-Brud, Eldrid Lundin, Mubashor Hassan, Michael D. Jackson and many more. So that's been a very exciting thing for us to be able to feature articles from them and as an aside, what I lost love is being able to feature these awesome scholars next to students and activists and people from different parts of the world, and it's a great combination. Anyway, judo tours become also very international, right? So our readers are located in 56 countries, which is pretty cool. Our writers come from many different countries. So Norway, of course, Denmark, Sweden, UK, Canada, US, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Congo, Eritrea, Syria, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, India, Cambodia, Australia and others. So we have writers coming from all over the place. Another thing I'll say about where we are is we've heard from many academics and other readers about how unique Shudashor is as a magazine of articles centered on a theme, right? So an issue centered on a theme and written by writers of various ages and perspectives in different countries. So combining academics, artists, activists and regular people who are just trying to figure things out, it's a really, really fantastic thing that we have been told that we're doing. And I often assign articles from Shudashor to students, and I know my colleagues do the same thing, because they're well written. These articles are well written and they address important topics. And they're like these little windows, like I'm thinking right now about the issue on exile or the issue on racism. They're like these little windows into another world and to a different perspective. These little gems that people can hold on to and look at the world through that gem for a period of time. And that helps people to think, have had students browse through and analyze a particular theme-based magazine in order to come to their own conclusions about that topic. So these I think are really great indicators of where we are and in areas which I think we're going to continue to grow in. We are also really fortunate that we have a board of advisors and three superb editors that you heard from in the very, very beginning. So our editors, Siddhartha, Ifisam, Ifisad have ideas and insights that are incredibly important for our contemporary moment. They have their fingers on the pulse of our changing complex global world. So it's really exciting to involve them. We've also had four interns, including one, Drew Davis, who proposed our special issue on body politics. And another Mvali Chlubi, who is in South Africa and who is now a regular columnist for our essay section. So we've been doing a lot. And in many ways, you know, when you step back and listen to all of this, it looks and sounds like a tremendous success story. And I think in many ways it really is. And we have done so much. And you know, you know, in the very beginning first, big chunk of those, these few years, everybody's been doing this as a volunteer, on a volunteer basis. So we've been very successful, but it has also and continues to be a struggle. Some of this connects to just the challenges of being in exile. So you've, you have had to reestablish yourself and make new connections, but there's also the financial aspect to this, right? So we're incredibly grateful for Fleetwood Foundation and the Norwegian Cultural Council who have helped to support writers and support the infrastructure. And that has been indispensable, really. But of course, we're constantly worried about funding. It's the insecurity of this kind of, kind of work that we're doing that I think a lot of colleagues in similar kinds of fields are also doing, who are focusing on exile writers and artists. So I have to ask Tutuol to put you on the spot here. Most magazines use advertisements or subscriptions to support the production cost of their publishing. So why have you wanted to avoid these options? Actually, right now we don't have any commercial approach and we don't have any advertising contacts in Norway. And also we don't want to do any negotiation only for money. So but if anyone want to support us, we will welcome them. Tutuol, we are working very hard to continue our work, fulfill our vision and mission. We are capable to doing even more important work. And certainly if we had more financial support resources, we could do more work for the community for inspiring writers and exiles and promoting multidimensional critical thinking also. Yeah, and we have, we've talked about many future plans, right? And so we've mentioned some of them here already. Other plans that we have discussed and hope to do is to organize workshops in communities, organize poetry readings, especially poetry reading. Poetry festival. Poetry festival. Poetry festival. Poetry festival, exactly. Especially ones featuring exiled poets. We also want to build more connections with universities, hoping to create some opportunities to work with academics and students through various sessions, maybe organizing a panel round of topic that's critical today. So there are a lot of things that we are interested in doing as we look ahead. Our response so far has been very, very strong and positive, and that certainly motivates us to do better in our work and to support freedom of thinking and expression. So yeah, we have many ideas and plans. We're capable of doing more work as a teacher, as an academic writer. I feel like if we can get more connections, more support, we can also encourage more exiles and more students as well to engage with students. And I think that would be great for all people involved. So Tutu, would you like to say something to conclude this for our audience? Yes. I want to request to our audience, stay with us and please subscribe and support should be sure. So we welcome your any kind of participation. Thank you. So thank you everyone. In our conclusion, we are going to shift over to show a short video of poetry. This comes from the Bergen Literature Festival in 2019. I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure you will. And I hope it also inspires you to read poetry. If that's not your area, come visit our website. See our current issue. And definitely, definitely, definitely stay in touch and subscribe and read and write for us. Thank you. Thank you everybody. All of the late night passenger of poetry train. Greetings, love and solidarity. Molin and Dhamshaprakto Jacket in Pokhati Ujjal. Damikadam Neh Ghori Bhaira Chhe. Shama Shamsa Gokil Gokil. Baddhun Madh Podichair. Ghori Aalofota Aapcha Amdokare. Phuleotta Tantan Ek Pohamanshra. Ghori Shamsa Bhaira Alada Ram. Alada Aavek. Alada Prakash. And as much as Prakash does, as much as he does, there is no one else in the audience. Sensations with a sparkling, expensive pen in the pocket of a soiled, tattered jacket, a taut, flowing current, inflated in the dim darkness of emerging dawn, known to be stark, raving mad, excluded from society and the world, is wondering about. Its colors are different in morning and in evening. Its emotions difference, its expressions different. And all those, all those unexposed sensations, those sensations are seeming like a secret personal tunnel in the belly of a fish memory. When evening downs its shutters, my glasses mist over like a poetry notebook and the fog brights. I am drowning in the sea, I am flying in the air, I am drowning in the darkness of the castles, I am drowning in the sea, I am drowning in the sea, Privately I wrap my rights, launch them on a river, throw them to the winds. With a plaster on my mouth, I blind my eyes, still my blood won't obey, leaping up to swim across the ocean, petrified. Look, these are the eloquences, the falling leaves of autumn love. I've strung up masks of silence on the wall, as though there are no sounds besides this wondrous wall art, we are beyond all shrieking and wailing today. The walls are filled with streaks of red, the artists have gone back, for there is no room for slogans. You say it by mistake, I know. I know you say it by mistake, still every time you say hello, shallow and jingling like I live up, I leap within myself, riding on my own shoulder, where does it start and where does it go? The horse, oh the horse, a bouquet on the white crane's wings, yet it can be called love, yet again, though it's a debt, two airy sounds, all of it. Mark it. She did it for me about that. Then yourself, a dressed up silk grout, fire on display within a showcase, I'm a failed customer, my pockets loaded with the shed leaps of winter. Back to me. First, I have to say that we are really sorry for the technical problems, but I want to assure you that the recording will be published on Home Run's website later today. So, I want to thank you, Visya and Tutu, for this wonderful conversation and I'm sure everyone learned a lot about the Shuttushor's story and the challenges. Thank you Shuttushor, Allround and Safe Muse for hosting this Freedom Talk. The Freedom Talk series is a concept closely connected to the annual Safe Heavens conference It focuses on the issues regarding threats towards artistic freedom, free press and intangible heritage. And earlier this year, a new international NGO called SHIFT was established with Safe Muse as fiscal sponsor to secure the Safe Heavens conference and Freedom Talk's initiatives. And the next Freedom Talk will be in collaboration with Amani on Friday, 1st of October and thank you again for joining us today and please stay safe.