 What's up everybody? I'm the hook, and I'm the blade, and I am the bracer, I suppose Together we're you know welcome to the adventures of hook blade and friends a show about all things Assassin's Creed With me as always is my co-host Tim. How are you doing today, Tim? Pretty great. How are you? I'm pretty great. How are you wait? Joining us as our first-ever guest host is none other than the moldy man the moldy myth the moldy legend himself first name putrid last name moldy man Thank you so much for joining us putrid. Yeah, thanks for having me on putrid. Tell me why does having you on as a guest Feel so wrong and yet so right Well it feels like our time and Remember back when we played a unity. Oh, yeah, and just talked shit for like an entire night Yeah, it was good times. That's how friendships are built is unity free roam co-op Experiencing I think probably 12 glitches per hour Yeah, it was really something like climbing up in the air. Yeah, good good stuff Putrid you've you've been around the Assassin's Creed fan community for a while You're kind of an og someone say someone would describe you as an og Probably yeah, I started posting on the subreddit Probably around the time a C3 came out and you were like you were top dog on the subject because they were like There were ranks you could achieve through being a prolific poster and commenter and you had the highest one And I think you were the first to yeah, were you not? Yeah, like they based the ranks on the amount of comment karma you had on the subreddit and I'm just I guess they assumed that I had the most because I commented all the time Basically, yeah, you're kind of a big deal. Yeah is what we're saying. I mean future was the first person I ever spoke to you in the community ever. Oh, that's that's like one-on-one. I didn't know that No, yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz you I in my eyes you were like this prolific community member and you you are still are Geez, why don't you co-host a podcast with him then Tim? But what it all look I'm gonna bring it home, okay? I was talking to putrid and him and I developed a friendship and that's how I met you Lawson Essentially, thank you Cuz I know that I messaged you separately But when we actually started talking was through putrid if I'm not mistaken. Oh, I don't remember any of this Honestly, we would have those Skype calls, you know, yeah, I do remember those believe me I just don't remember how I met people like I don't remember who the first person I talked to was I want to say Yeah, either Greg or aftermath. Yeah, I think it was putrid for me because I bought him on Twitter I believe and I sent him a DM. I was like, hey sexy I Tried also Also was a team member on the assassin's creed marathon, which you know, yep is my favorite thing and He was also a collaborator on the bureau and I think unlike Tim you actually managed to get on an episode of that, didn't you? Yeah, you lucky. Yeah, I think I got on Yeah, one episode I believe hey, that's that's one out of five. I mean My only goal for this show was that we beat the the bureau's record of episodes and we've done that so everyone pat yourselves On the back. Whoo So Tim last week we had some we asked we asked everybody to send us some hate mail Yes, I want you to to read us the hate mail so we can hate them back. All right So first up on the hate mail from Jace's Hobbes 018 Jace's Hobbes, you got to tell us how your username is pronounced because we gotta tell us keep saying it like this, but feature hate mail fan of the show The show I meant to say that that fan obviously whatever Incoming hate mail Unity's modern day is literally pointless and it tells you as much it is not better than origins because at least something happens You have crossed the line with that opinion I Have to say this is tough for me because like I get like unity's Present day is just unequivocally terrible and I agree at the same time. I feel like comparing it to origins Origins, there's like there's like 18 minutes of modern day content It's playable the expectations that you have when you see playable modern day You think it's gonna be like really great Desmond tear stuff, right? And it's so not it's so bad Whereas I think unity by the time I realized it was all gonna be cut scenes I kind of was like strapped in for terribleness and Origins, I didn't realize how fully how bad it was until I was done Yeah I mean I feel like I agree with you because at least with unity's once you see that first little bish up a bit You know what you're getting into you're like, oh that they made it they made it dog shit this time Yes, you think of your hopes up, you know, yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna stand strong on my opinion here, but but I don't know I'm open to changing my mind if I'm presented with facts and logic. I'm just kidding What else do we have on hate mail so also from bloody mayors This is a two of two on hate mail. She says oh, I guess he or she not They say they They say hate mail. I doubt you can say that syndicates modern day is the best We've ever seen when you compare a choreographed cutscene to the gameplay of Desmond wrecking shit in the episode There you go office and rescuing William brotherhood and AC3 modern day is still on top. Oh I'm actually going to change course entirely and say that the best modern day is a C1 But I think syndicate is easily the best we've had since AC1 I'm sorry, but the the playable stuff in AC3 really didn't do it for me No, I didn't do it didn't do it for me either. I Like the gameplay the fact that there's gameplay that's kind of a novelty I guess like oh, we're actually killing people in the modern day, which they did that in roughly every game I think other than maybe revelations out of those five. Yeah, but is the actual story content compelling? I don't know about that for for either AC3 or brotherhood. I feel like AC3's Modern day was pretty good In the sense that wait, hold on. I need to come up with a way to phrase this. Take your time. Take your time This is why we pay editors Pay them and kisses. Okay. So I feel like AC3's modern days good in concept But as with quite a few things in the story of that game the pacing was a bit of an issue Yeah, for sure. I I don't want to get too in the weeds on the hate mail We've got a big subject today because essentially what's happened is We got a letter from Eve Guillemot the CEO of Ubisoft and he was like he was like first off sorry about all the abuse and harassment and Misogyny allowed to happen under my nose for Decades and decades, but you guys have a really great show and I just want to know what you guys would do to save Assassin's Creed so our mission today is we need to save Assassin's Creed we have to come up with some ideas for what they could do next that would both Fit the vision that Ubisoft seems to have for the franchise But also make some you know crucial concessions to what hardcore fans are clamoring for or just really at the end of the day The things that we the three of us would want to see To be really happy about an Assassin's Creed game. Yeah, because it feels like now more than ever at this moment even Compared to when we started this show. There are some forces that are acting upon Ubisoft And on the next game in particular that seem to put it in a unique position Right, we're becoming aware of these sexist practices the chief creative officer has been ousted and Ghost of Sushima just proved that you can make a classic Assassin's Creed game and make money with it So it feels like we have an opportunity for things to change for the better so we've each kind of made our own lists of things that we want to see and Tim why don't you get us started with the first thing you want to see to save Assassin's Creed for sure So something that's been apparent to me probably since the yet to do games is the lack of Multiple games from one assassin or main character So that would be the and I don't necessarily have a particular order in this obviously some things I would I would pick over other things but I think this is very important and why I have a number one on my list is because I think It's you're you're let you're missing so much opportunity to not include an assassin over multiple games I mean you and I were just talking about how That like little graphic that they put out every year adding in new characters and new assassins that thing is so filled up right now It's because everyone in that graphic is gonna get coronavirus because they're not But it's just it's filled to the brim because yeah, it's like if Connor had two or three games Then it would just be Connor there for three years worth of assassins creeds But you know so it would feel more momentous to have a new character to exactly wow I can't wait to see who the new assassin is which is how it felt when they started talking about Connor after Etsy It was like oh my god new protagonists. This is amazing right and and then once once they had Connor in an actual game it was just that game and then No word on him and then they just kind of dropped casually on the side somewhere else Oh, yeah, he had a kid, but his wife left him and he died alone and that that's all we have I mean actually I think they've retconned that by now They have conned it in the comic really they put out a comic about Connor one of the I think assassins creed reflections issues Yes, and part of the story of that is that the I may be talking out of my ass here But I know that part of the implication is that when the Abstergo employee handbook said he died alone It was like it was Templar propaganda wasn't the truth. Oh Yeah, also though I mean the future makes a good point that for a while before we had read a fucking comic about it Connor was just forgotten, you know, and he's like fuck. Absolutely, you know, so and that is pretty much what's happened with Almost every other protagonist. I see a new game coming out like we see a vor It's hard to be really excited because I know that pretty much the entirety of a vor content I'm ever going to see in my life will be over at the end of the hundred hours or so that I spend playing the game Yeah, like it's hard to Really get invested and I mean obviously you can get invested in a character and there have been some great Protagonist Edward was awesome, right? I would even settle though like like for an a Kenway style family saga over multiple games Like I would be cool with that Especially if they were smart about it and they allowed those other games to answer questions about You know to conclude the stories of some of those characters outside of their own games, you know Have them be side characters wouldn't it be great if like Someone from a game we've already played shows up as a you know Cameo in another game or actually as a side character or mentor figure Like there's a lot you can do if you stay within the same story world for a couple of titles And and I mean that that yeah, that's a big part of like why I think it's important to just stick with a main Character or multiple throughout a few games because you can see the same cast of characters again. I mean mm-hmm I think it's I think what makes the etio games in particular very compelling is Because you see the same people who etio has been fighting with for decades You see them throughout the games you see them age with him and it's and I think and so when something tragic happens to one of them You you feel it and so it's yeah, it's hard to wrap my head around Like oh who an a force life am I never gonna see again when I've spent maybe two hours three hours playing with them before they Before they bite the dust, you know Yeah, and and I think that the the other thing the bigger thing Is that it sort of robs them of the opportunity to create iconic and memorable Long-lasting characters. I mean I do think that The reason etio the primary reason etio is heralded as the the greatest character in Assassin's creed what I'll say is that if etio had only gotten one game. I don't think that would be the case Um and that if other characters had gotten multiple games They might be in that spot not that it's because etio is not a great character, but you know, there are things about him where He is kind of a stock character Like it's just the fact that we get to spend so much time with him And we get to see him through multiple stages of his life that we form this attachment to him And we consider him this epic legendary Not just in the assassin's creed world, but in gaming culture as a whole Yeah, he's definitely just like a sort of Standard likable character If you look down on it, but they were able to flesh him out so much due to all that time Absolutely, and then to go back to Characters being in multiple games If you played rogue, you would assume that she would show up right unity But I guess they Didn't think to do that or Arno doesn't care about his dad dying My thing like the number one thing on my list I think follows on pretty Pretty logically from your thing tim Which is that I want to see in the next game a single female protagonist No gender choices Just here's a woman play as her if you don't like it Deal with it. That's what I want to see because I think that if there's going to be a time that that will happen It's now Ubisoft is going to want to be seen as progressive and not be you know derided by The games industry for their sexist practices And I think that that means that not only is the likeliness at an all-time high. I think it's Necessity is at an all-time high. I want to see it and Yeah, all the problems that we have with the gender choice setup. I think are pretty well litigated in the sense that It kind of robs the character of an ability to have a distinct identity If you could just swap to be a completely different character model and voice actor And retain all the same personality traits It just it weakens the character in terms of how you perceive it as the player. I think for sure. Yeah and one thing that was very apparent in Odyssey and I'm sure it'll be in Valhalla to an extent as well Having so much choice in who you are and what the character is It changes how the characters interact and talk to the protagonist So they might say in Odyssey they would say Eagle Bearer. Yeah at the very least they'll say Evar now, but yeah, they still can't interact in a more proper way That was actually one of my points too because it's just like let these Let the creative people stick to their guns and actually write a story with an actual character For sure. I mean we are seeing though in some Valhalla footage that uh, they sometimes will refer to at the very least female avar as Wolf kissed So expect a bunch of that. Huh? Oh boy. Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that I mean, I can't say in my list or I can't like I because like I said part of the premise is that we are Asking for things that feel like Ubisoft could do them next year and it wouldn't be completely out of the You know blue So like I don't think we're going to get rid of dialogue choices as much as I might think they should Uh, but I think at least giving us a character that is Fully embodied as one character with one design one performer And one story. I think that that would be that would be that'd be beautiful Especially if they get multiple games like tim wants That really would be the opportunity if you're creating a next gen You know only assassins creed saga With multiple games with a single protagonist where each game is getting the development time that they need and each game is getting Uh, you know a well orchestrated story Uh, that is the opportunity to create an etio level iconic character for all time for sure and keep in mind that Because we know pretty much like at the moment right now as we're talking There are three assassin screed games that are in development. There's by holla the one after that the one after that So if there is one single protagonist that might inject some You know coherence and they can all be like, okay So like this game is what happens to this person and then the next game this happens to the same person again and like I feel like you could have a lot of You know just Precision because yeah writing is flexible Yeah, like you're not worried about the third like the third game in development because they're doing because they're not going to be dealing with a new protagonist in new world they're dealing with the same protagonist and you know, so anyway, so uh Putrid what's number one on your list? Um, that can change by the second but uh But one thing that I really would like to see is for the games to be Or at least in the future to be uh a bit more grounded into reality for longer periods of time Because if you look back at say ac1 and ac2 you have stuff It's somewhat realistically going on and then you have over the top piece of Eden fight at the very end and that feels like very Rewarded. Yeah. Oh, yeah for sure Yeah, it just it just comes out of nowhere And it feels really cool But then you go to odyssey and you have a piece of Eden on you at all times Yeah And so it doesn't have the same impact if you're just going to stay over the top At all times. Yeah, if you're fighting a Cyclops every 12 minutes It doesn't it isn't going to feel rewarding or exciting to do any of that No, I yeah, I mean you're so right putrid because you're so right. You're so right Because like back in the day like the pieces of the pieces of Eden used to be like these mysterious objects And now we have like a thousand of them that we know of It was so cool to learn about a new one. Exactly like it was like, oh my god. There's an apple. Yeah Oh my god, you know, oh, there's a staff like it was just it was exciting to learn more about to uncover the pieces and now it's like Oh, we made an assassin's creed game. We should probably put a piece of Eden in there somewhere I guess they like pieces of Eden in their assassin's creed game I don't know. What's this one a blanket? Maybe this one's a sword This one's a building Man And yeah, when it comes to stuff like fighting a Cyclops that that was It's it's stretching it. It's really stretching reality because But now we know that's gonna be in fucking vahala because you fight a big fucking timber wolf That's like twice the three times your size. You fight a witch. Yeah Ah Yeah, that I I was very I was pretty surprised to see that they were keeping that stuff in after Yeah, so was I some of the things they were saying too at the time I feel like any it's like they it seems like they were implying in interviews and stuff that they were gonna draw back on that Maybe they will. I mean, it's not gonna be maybe it's not gonna be like odyssey where you're fighting a fucking you know mythical creature all the time, but Still it's like it's just so out of place in a universe that has existed for well over a decade To be like well also in some times in some places there was magic It's not about like suspension of this belief so much because I mean you can point at anything and be like You think genetic memory is cool, but now magic is out of the question But the the thing is less about that more about Does the universe follow the rules that it has already established for itself? Right now the answer is right for sure. Yes 100% That's one thing that I always really liked about the series that it stayed in its own rules And it had a sort of explanation for why things happened even like why you couldn't swim. Oh, it's Right, dude. You're so right you're so right and and that was on my list too as I said Keep magic and mysticism Out of the main game and then go fucking nuts on a dlc Yeah, they talked about doing a dlc for for black flag that would have had you like fighting crackens and skeletons and like mystical pirate Yeah, that was and I was like, oh, that's amazing because a dlc you can keep itself contained You can explain it somehow like I never played tyranny of king washington all the way through but I presume it was like There's a reason why you're turning into an eagle, you know It was an alternate universe too A good example of that in another game is like red dead zombie mode or or far cry blood dragon Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean you could have a king arthur dlc for val howlin That'd be fantastic But if I see like a lady of the lake in the main game, I'm gonna be like This is bullshit Yeah, but putrid What you were saying I I I I completely agree because Like even just swimming in the first game is explained somehow and so Like I I don't need everything over the explain to me But I think it's important to keep in mind That the mysticism used to be Very subtle and very like ambiguous And now they just use the mysticism just to explain everything because it's it's in your face all the time Like as far as I am aware in the odyssey dlc Uh and in an odyssey dlc, like you are literally like in first siv Atlantis and you're just interacting with them and and like that takes away all of the mystery Yeah, it's a sort of thing where Earlier on in the series You wouldn't imagine that you'd ever see right straight up what the first Yeah, that's a good point. Like I don't know. It's like the mystery is gone Tim, what else you got so uh number two on my list I've got Encourage expiration A kin to maybe syndicate's World war one rift I think um And it's funny because that's a more recent like that's a more modern assassin screed game as we would consider it But it's still yeah kind of nailed the um like the intrigue of Exploration for that reason. So I think there needs to be a a greater focus on like why am I bothering exploring? There needs to be things that populate this world that make me want to go out and I think in more recent games They kind of they don't like to give you a good reason. They just give you a reason I would like to see like things that respect the player and respect my time to go out and explore So finding like it's kind of like what we talked about earlier in the podcast of like the mysteries and secrets Yeah, how about they are just mysteries and secrets and I find them on my own You know, I actually think Valhalla could do a pretty good job with this Like the animus anomalies seem interesting and they could be very rewarding things to discover If it's giving you some modern day content and some parkour content Hopefully, yeah, and I have a point that kind of goes off of that. Yeah I'd like to see the parkour Very much changed from what it is right now number two on my list behind single female protagonist is revive and revitalize parkour because In odyssey, I'm not it seems very similar in Valhalla. Yeah, but in odyssey it is just run and hold x And once you get to a certain level, there's no fall damage It's completely mindless When you get to that point and it's just like you could Climb anything without needing to worry about anything. It sucks. There's no need to think about navigation This was something that occurred to me a lot when I was playing ghost of sushima because It is a big open world and there's not necessarily parkour to be doing Uh, but to navigate the world you do have to find the areas That you can climb the whole climb anything system in odyssey origins valhalla It seemed like a good idea, but it really just takes the fun out of exploring and navigating for me Yeah, it makes navigation Somewhat it it can even feel like a hindrance at times because it's just oh I've got to go to this other place in this huge world And you're gonna spend 90% of your time on a fucking horse anyway. That's true. Yeah, and also boring. I really like Yeah, I I really enjoyed in the older games You had to look to see Where you could climb It it kept your mind going as you were going from place to place and it was a lot of fun You had to like kind of find the routes and pathways you could take Yeah, I mean right now. Sorry go ahead. No you Uh, just uh, well right now I I'm in the middle of ac1 again and While the parkour isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination It or great. I I I do find myself like Being on a rooftop and I'm like, okay So I'm gonna go this way because that's where the buildings connect the best and all that and and so It does keep your mind active and also I think What goes hand in hand with revitalizing parkour is also revitalizing areas in the map that can house parkour well Yeah, because Even in even in parts of ac3 Parkour isn't exactly the most fun to do because the streets are very wide and the buildings are far apart and So slopey and you'll get shot right even like rogue doing new york did a better job of it than AC3 by a significant margin So it wasn't impossible to make that area Fun to parkour right just happened that way Once you get to unity At that point in the series, it feels like the way you moved in parkour Was a lot more just luck. Yeah 100 rather than knowing how far you could jump and being able to There is some element of that. I agree Grab onto ledges like grabbing onto ledges Manually in a consistent way because I believe it's still technically possible. Yeah, but yeah I mean what I what I think has not really known how to do it as much I think what adds to this problem is having like an automatic sprint I know Lawson would disagree with me on this, but I think removing the need for rt and a at the same time No, I don't I don't disagree. I prefer I I think I may have misspoke what I when we were arguing about this the other day I prefer the the style of walking by default but holding the trigger to run I do like that I don't like how the the one thing that I was criticizing about assassin's creed one Is that the speed changes too? Like if I'm going forward and holding the right trigger I should be at maximum speed The a button should just be to indicate that I want to climb something But in assassin's creed you have to hold the trigger and the a button to sprint Holding the trigger without holding the a button is faster than walking, but not the fastest you can go That's my only complaint because yeah, so I think it was that way until like well I think three changed it officially, right? I think three made it just a trigger or am I wrong at least three by three But I it wouldn't surprise me if that happened earlier I think well because I remember revelations essentially that is a very similar in rt and a but I remember alex amansio specifically being like We used to call it the assassin's claw when he wanted to change it for unity He was like yeah holding you're holding holding down three buttons at once, but you like to call it the assassin's claw So you didn't change X button to indicate that you're free running up. Yeah, but I I think just general movement You did I don't know I'll have to pull up the clip to make sure I know what you're talking about if I'm remembering correctly it was holding the right trigger The legs button and trying to move the camera at the same time Yeah, that's the claw because you had to basically put your thumb on the the joystick And put your pointer finger on the a button if you wanted to control the camera while sprinting That shit sucks But yeah, like running at full speed all the time is I don't I don't know how I feel about that Yeah, I I would prefer to walk by default especially if the walk was a little faster than it is in some of these fucking games because I mean sometimes I just want to like walk and take in the the beauty of the streets of paris and unity But you pretty much walk like an inch per second. It's like There's no middle ground either Which again like I don't think there should be in the way that there is in Assassin's Creed 1 But it's like either walk at a snail's pace or run blazing fast through the fucking I'm not an expert on controls control design I just know that I want our core to be good and fun and the only real way to do that is designing a system Which encourages you to actually look around and think about where you're moving and then Create a set of animations that are, you know, beautiful flow into each other well The way that I think unities and syndicates animations do I do think they should be new and more realistic and more You know detailed because they can they should if they want to revitalize parkour I'm tired of looking at the same set of animations for the last five games but also Giving you just a little bit of control over the actual process of parkour Such that you feel like you're doing something because the the more automatic it is the less fun it is Yeah, I mean, I think we could agree that no matter if it's if it's like SEO games version of parkour or ken way or unity I think we can all agree that either one of those we just want it to be present and enjoyable for everyone so and focused on and made a part of the the gameplay design because I mean a lot of people I feel like the ubisoft teams They they have lost sight of the fact that for a lot of the general public and especially the people playing these games parkour and assassin's creed like parkour is the first thing you think about I was playing uh, I think origins on my on my ps4 the other day and um, my My brother-in-law was was at our house and he was like Oh, what game is this and I was like this is assassin's creed and he was like really because I was in a fucking desert He was like, where's the parkour and I was like dude exactly Dude, that's that's that's so like accurate Yeah, we're like we're first thing the first thing I think of when I think of assassin's creed is is parkour Yeah, it's like, where's the city? Yeah one of the things that excited me so much uh, and the build up to unity is just the fact that they were talking about Hey, we're we're doing all this parkour stuff. We're We're revamping it and I would love to have that excitement again of Knowing that the parkour is being worked on again because yeah, yeah, I'm right with you on that Let's see whose turn is it next. I forget so I think well because putrid was adding on to something that I think I don't know who was saying it and then you would like yeah, that's I think it was There's a lot of overlap in our lists if you couldn't tell yeah, yeah And that's fine. That's good. I think that means yeah. Yeah, that's preferable I'll go ahead and throw out something that was occurring to me, you know tim and I talk a lot about making targets and and gameplay moments memorable and I feel like they kind of threw the baby out with the bathwater when they Sort of forgot about the whole black box mission thing Because I get that what they tried to do with origins is they said well the world is your black box, right? We give you a target and we tell you things about them and you go to the place where they are And they're doing something and you kill them however you want to but By removing all of the sort of handcrafted elements that used to go into a black box mission of like Here are your opportunities. Here are your points of interest here your points of entry distractions things like that You lose the Idea that there's actually something handcrafted happening at all and so every time you kill anybody in any of these last couple games There's nothing memorable about the circumstance the location the design the story Because you are pretty much for hours and hours just showing up at a copy and paste fort And stabbing some guy who might as well be any other guy Yeah, that happened to me time and time again in odyssey I was just free roaming and I killed someone who turned out to be a cultist and it's like oh Guess i'm a step closer to upgrading my sphere Yeah, that's a great point. I mean no, I mean I mean that's that's such a good point because That was one of the best things that unity kind of introduced was the black box missions And they were like, okay, never mind. They still had a long way to go I think I mean syndicate for sure did a lot of great stuff with them But it still felt like oh, it's the same checklist you do in the open world But but smaller like I think that if they Approach the idea of a black box mission with a couple of new ideas, right? One being expanding the area so that maybe instead of a single building being your black box You might be in a whole village or town or fort or whatever and the other thing would be Integrating those opportunities in a way that you have to more naturally Discover them find them on your own have strategies you can use to look for them The more that you have to exert your own player agency to discover those things The more rewarding it's going to be to unlock. Oh, this is a really cool assassination cutscene Like, you know, we all remember that if you know in that Notre Dame black box mission If you do the confessional kill you are stabbing that motherfucker through a confessional That's cool. You could have just air assassinated that dude and knowing that you could have done it the cool way and you could have done it A normal pedestrian way Made it more rewarding when you did it the cool way now. There's no cool ways. Yeah, everything's dumb There's no Fun way to do anything because they have to all be systemic and open and Oh and piss. I mean, yeah, I really really feel like some of those black box Like unique kills Were some of the most memorable moments in their respective games in unity and syndicate like the Notre Dame one in unity and then The one in the medical facility in syndicate where you like Pretended to be dead and stab the doctor like and those characters a lot of them were memorable too I'll never forget the Maxwell Roth stuff in syndicate Um ac1 subrand was a really memorable one. Oh my gosh every like that's the one where I think I don't know. I'm mixing it up. Whatever the one is where everyone's poisoned. That was cool. Yeah. Yeah, dude That's the one I just did. Oh, yeah That's what I just did last night and that's like it was so great because and that's a thing Ah, that's the thing about the black box shit is like even in that game specifically You like can do investigations as All of them if you would like you only need three to access the mission But you can do six total investigations and they give you new information So for instance in this one specifically the informant tells you hey the fountain in the middle of the of the courtyard You can scale it And so I knew that once it was time to pursue him I could scale the fucking fountain and And it doesn't matter if I just didn't know that and took the stairs But I was able to access information That helped the kill be cooler and more enjoyable and whatever so and the main thing is The reason they did the black box missions because they wanted to get back to the core fantasy of that And we have strayed so far from that core fantasy That like they can show me a hidden blade and I'll get an interaction like we were so far off course that That like any element of anything which I didn't even write this down on my list for some reason But my main thing Above all above anything else Is that I want to be playing as an assassin if they give me Even like the dumbest like jacob fry tear Bumbling idiot character, but he's an assassin and there's a real brotherhood and they do assassinations Even if it's an rpg with wizards and monsters and shit. I will enjoy that so much more I would really love to see an assassin's order And a protagonist with a beaked hood. Yeah Yeah, honestly the big hood man big hood that that's the thing is is even in This is blood into the like the comics too is like the the one that we just fucking read conspiracies like the assassin order Is in literally two pages of that fucking book and it like they don't and it made my nipples harder when I saw them I know, but then they don't but then they're gone. I know I know And it's like it's like It feels like sometimes that they forget that the beat hood Exists and is an iconic thing You you know, it's bad when the first trailer for an assassin's creed game comes out I'm talking about fohalla and it's just like at the very end. Oh my god. It's a hidden blade. Yeah social stuff That's the reaction You know what this means and this is the other side that we have to look at is Now that we've been deprived of these things for so long Whichever brave soul that ubi soft says oh, that's what I want to do I want to get back to that as soon as that happens We're all going to lose our collective minds and it's like It'll have been built up to yeah I kind of give a shit about being a viking. I really don't They want to make the the world's foremost viking simulator and that's fine but Put me in that beat hood put me in those mossy off robes Mwah Mwah Mwah Speaking of where where the legacy outfits. Yeah Yeah, ubi soft. Where the fuck are the legacy outfits? You just give us etio every game and expect us to care about that shit Oh, wow. I'm running around ancient Greece looking like motherfucking etio. That's so cool Why why not why not every other protagonist who's ever existed because you have 17 of them And some of them look really cool and I just want to be them. Okay. It's not that big a deal I don't even think there are legacy outfits I don't even think there are legacy outfits and There is an etio unlockable. I'm pretty sure but that's so annoying That's so annoying. Like look, I don't want alexis or anyone to fucking wear etio's robes. They they will disgrace them But it shows you that ubi soft knows the only character they've ever created worth a damn in this franchise is etio Like so why not do the same things that made etio great? You can do them. You're allowed No one's stopping you from making a great character and giving us multiple games It's like it's like they perceive etio as like a fluke Like yeah, it's like they themselves are like oops. We made an iconic character. Whoops Damn, let's go ahead and do the opposite of what made that character work for the next 10 years If if in Valhalla I could wear every legacy character outfit I feel like that'd be cool even though I would not do it just to be clear I wouldn't wear any of them. I would just like to know that they're there if I want to it would make it the best game ever made Here's a little random one I've got I've been paying a lot of attention to HUD designs lately because something that really Really got me going about Ghost of Tsushima is that 90% of the time if you're navigating and exploring There's no heads up display whatsoever And I just I love that because I could just sit there writing my horse through the hills of Tsushima and Not see any shit on the screen that was distracting. I played a bit of The Witcher 3 the other day There are so many useless HUD elements In that game. I don't know why I have to have a big old bar at the bottom of the screen that says horse stamina over it When I'm writing my horse Like just let it slow down when it gets tired. I'll notice then there's literally an icon in the upper right hand corner That never goes away that tells you what time of day it is. I'm like dog. I can see the sky I can tell what the weather is. There's an icon like showing you an icon that says, oh, this is what a sunset looks like Yeah, I know the sun setting in front of me I can see it It seems that having a limited HUD is something that they've been scared to do ever since the first game They're scared to do it. I mean, I know we heard recently that sorry Yeah, they they want to treat us like babies is what you're well Yeah, well, they're scared of you not finding a fucking view point five minutes into the game And let's be clear This is a game series that for most of its existence up until the last few years Has literally had HUD elements that just tell you what the buttons do Think about that. Oh, yeah the puppeteer Like it's a cool concept But if I get three hours in the game I don't need to be reminded what the buttons do and we've just let them have that on screen for like eight games What the fuck you're telling me I can press square and it attacks or assassinates Whoa, that is that is a level of hand holding is what that is honestly and they clearly they've realized that they got rid of it in origins But I remember them. I feel like I heard someone say I don't know if it was an interview or a leak That it was like okay in Valhalla. They want to have a cleaner HUD. They want to have like more You know as as as small amount of HUD as possible. That's clearly not true it's got Just as much HUD as any other Assassin's Creed game of the last three years, so This is like a weird tangent, but I needed to bring it up. The puppeteer is really really silly Yeah, I mean, it's kind of crazy how the first game of the series did that pretty like retroactively Like allowed you to play the game without the HUD like if you're going through The uh, like the world not the wilderness, but if you're going through in between cities There's little signs that say this way the Jerusalem or this way the opera and Then if you the point of a viewpoint is to get high enough to be able to see what buildings you have to go to It sounds like ac1 was designed to be played exactly that way And then Ubisoft was like people are dummies. You need to put big ol icons on everything. I think that's what happened I think I think that's exactly. Yeah, I think that's exactly what they did I think the game was about like was going to ship that way and they were like, okay. Well, hold on We need to make sure that people wait dawg you want them to look at signs. Are you fucking stupid really? So, uh future what what's next on your list? It's okay if you don't have a list. Fuck you can admit it. I I do I do have a list He's just trying to figure out which one he wants to say next Oh, I just felt like I maybe didn't send you the memo that we were gonna make lists and then I was like, oh god Are we spending this whole episode asking future what's next on his list and he's sitting there like fuck I have a list No, no, you you told me about the list. So I'm not just like trying to pull these out of my ass. I wasn't sure I forgot that I told you. It's fine. We're also at an hour of recording. This episode's gonna be massive It might but we'll be fine. There's stuff I can edit out I've pretty much covered everything in my list at this point. Yeah, I've got three more in mind Oh god I I would really like for both I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead Share with the class. What are you laughing about? No, just what the way you're like, oh god All right, go ahead Not just for the next game, but kind of going forward. I would really like for the stories to be Good independently. Well, yeah, I would like these stories to be good We said I didn't think we were gonna say that at the same time But I want them to be like good independently regardless of the rest of the series because So like especially in the context of the modern day It's always kind of like stringing us along But then like oh, we're gonna have the major story beat that was introduced after Desmond's death We're just gonna relegate it to a fucking comic Yeah And we're not gonna mention that in the game or make that very clear at all Yeah, no, that's a great point. So it's just if maybe I don't know the best way to handle that but right Well, I I do know that Say, I know that this has been meant this game has been mentioned a few times before but and like I think red dead redemption 2 was a great They did a great job at having a story that's really good on its own But if you played the first game, there's a lot of stuff that you would be able to pick up on and know about To make the experience a lot better I really like what you're saying because I feel like that's kind of a sentiment that I shared in the brahman episode that we did Because brahman is a good story on its own and there are nice little, you know, easter eggs and stuff for the assassin's creed universe But it feels like instead of devoting Hours on hours just like what can we put in here that fans are going to recognize? They after they good story in the universe You know, like you can read brahman or read the fall or the chain And you can enjoy them without having played every single assassin's creed mobile game that's came out You know in all that stuff I completely agree with what you're saying. Yeah, it it feels like Maybe like have a plan, you know in this in this game This will happen and the next game this will happen and then do that I don't know but no, I mean you're completely right. It would be better than what they're doing Or what they have been doing for the past few years of We're gonna use We're just gonna string you along With the idea that something is going to happen But then it doesn't or if it does it's in a comic. I was gonna say this earlier There is nothing about the To my knowledge, there's nothing about the development process and what it requires That would stop them from saying, okay here. Here's our team. Here's our people That are going to oversee the assassin's creed, uh, you know the brand the franchise and Then creating a plan to say, okay, this is the narrative arc We want to tell over multiple games whether that's in the modern day or that's in the present day Wow, um Whether that's in the modern day or the past, uh, you can Make things overarching and I think the only thing that gets in the way is actually ubisoft's corporate structure, right? They don't have like a dedicated lore master for assassin's creed at all and they don't have Like I think that really what happens is There are developers and teams that they pitch to the the creative executives at ubisoft And they say oh, this is the game we want to make and then ubisoft says yes or no That process happens independently for every assassin's creed game that happens So no one is saying oh the next three games we're going to make we're going to hit egypt Uh grease and and you know viking right they're just these three separate teams that are going Oh, you know what I'd really like to do is make a viking game and then ubisoft says cool But yeah, it's not like this would be impossible. The very first assassin's creed games was You know patrice desi lay and jade ramond and those people saying okay Here's a roadmap ubisoft said do more and they said okay. We'll go from three games to five games. That's cool And then now we're in this place where it's a free-for-all But I really feel like the dividends that they would make from in terms of like fan engagement and series Goodwill in in the public and in the gaming community For just putting that effort in would be immense. Yeah, I completely agree. Thank you tim me too Thank you future. What was next on your list? If I had to pick multiple distinct cities behind a loading screen and with next gen technology It'll be less likely but still or one big map. I would pick the former So do you want me to argue with you about this because I'm ready to argue with you about oh, yeah Sure. Um, so I'll just lay out like why I think so like go for it because especially with playing ac1 just now like every city feels distinct and has a dialect and The people look different the buildings look different the atmosphere the color of the sky everything looks so much different and new when you would go between cities And I feel like that is lost on games like syndicate or unity And unity I'm not saying these games do a bad job of differentiating different neighborhoods or boroughs or what have you but nothing to me Beats the uniqueness of those cities or ac2 cities And I think it's because you can't just waltz from one end to one city to another city and I think Excuse me. I mean you can just there's gonna be a loading screen It's not just the loading screens obviously that make that so excuse me they make that so I think it's the philosophy of that Okay, so venice Is going to be a lot different to play in Than florins and I think as they've even and like I think this is why rome is considered like the best city in the in in in the games because it was the first game To go away from the multiple different cities that you would travel to and so even in ac2 When you go between oh, sorry ac3 when you go between the frontier and in boston and all that like There still is a distinction between the two even though I don't love those particular maps as much I love constantinople revelations, but I don't think the games have hit on That kind of distinction between the maps since the first two games I have a I have an idea that's like kind of similar um One thing that I really enjoyed is how um Especially in the first two games Which was also somewhat present in brotherhood revelations and three less so on three More of the map opened up as you progress through the story And I actually really liked that because it helped you You get more content and you don't feel like there's so much. Yeah, you don't get overwhelmed meanwhile in origins and odyssey After capa docha, I believe it's called you just have the whole World open and it just feels like there's oh kefalonia too much Kefalonia that capa docha is the burn. Yeah, but those are the grounds that he in revelation. Yeah. Yeah The cave city That was so cool Right. Well, so you see what I mean being able to travel between distinct areas like that is and hey The hell is doing that because you're gonna have some are they the action You're gonna you're gonna have norway and it's gonna be completely like separate from the map of everything else I suppose but like being able to go between versailles and in paris like that's kind of what i'm talking about even though I don't think it's as it's it's obviously not as different as what i'm saying, but I I don't Like here's my thing I don't think the loading screens are necessary in the in the next gen world like They'll still happen mind you if you're going to go from norway to england I'm sure there's some sort of transition there even if it's a cute animation of you being on a boat It's not going to be like you you're you know, it's not going to be seamless, right? Yes, but my thinking is this like You can have All of the goodness like you can have everything you want It doesn't have to be the the old way or the current way like I think that I would be okay with a big open fuck-off map like the ones of the last few games if the cities in it were really like content hubs and were were substantially sized and That the majority of the content of the game could be you know enjoyed in those cities that would do it for me like I'm okay with having an open world like frontier-esque area that can be exciting Um, especially if there's meaningful content to do in it But it really feels like even in origins in odyssey though They make a big deal about the fact like oh you can go to alexandria or oh Memphis or whatever these there's big hub cities those cities are like 10 percent not even 10 percent of the stuff you'll do in the game So like that's the problem more than anything else with that approach to me But I do think that I fully agree with you on the level that if we could get back to a zone where We have like Different distinct cities I would be cool with that As long as and I do think they should use the whole aesthetic trappings that they have available to them They should change the color of the sky. They should make the npcs look unique They should do everything they used to do in those games right So and I want to get to hung up on the fact that like they there needs to be a loading screen separating them I just feel like lately in these big fuck-off maps The cities aren't given up attention And I think it's because they spread themselves too thin they spread the world too thin So if I had to pick between an ac2 style of like three to four cities going between them all the time I would prefer that over here's giant world with a couple cities peppered throughout Yeah, that's fair. What was next on your list? My thing is like if they're if there are any boss like enemies in the game They should be like the Templar Knights from ac1. I agree. That's it. That's a cool idea Look because ac1 combat to me is the best and it's most It's most challenging when you're facing enemies like that It's like a really good thing about the Templar Knights is that You are pretty much forced to like stealth them. Yeah, and it's a perfect example of If you can't stealth correctly, you're going to be in for a bad time because it's very difficult to kill them Outside of it because they're very strong and very skilled warriors So you need like a you need a perfect hidden blade counter and an ac1 the window for that is very tiny But also some of them are Impossible to stealth because some of them are like up against a rock. You can't like quite get that's true And there's not a lot of room to air assassinate in like the In the space between the cities, there's not a lot to climb I think if you're talking more like, you know, if you have like smoke bombs in the whistle and all that then yeah Now we're talking. Yeah Like not Medusa Templar Knights. Yeah, so I so my last point really is just to encourage side content Completion licking it to the main objective So I think Brotherhood is the prime example of how to do side content in these games Because oh, yeah, it's all very Um fun and enjoyable and there's a and there's a lot of it. There's a lot of there's a lot to it For just from a quantity sense But it's all like linked to your time in Rome and with characters that you've Spent with in previous games and stuff. So it all is linked to like for instance There's like 50 para stories Not one of them I ever did and felt like wow, Paris is a better place because I've done that Even in Brotherhood, you can renovate the city itself like you can help the city itself There's a quest line in Brotherhood where you are just playing flashbacks of ac2 All of Brotherhood's side content feels meticulously crafted and rewards you for doing it. Whether it's a gameplay or a um story reward because wow, I know more about et'sio's life And if you do yeah, if you do the the Leonardo da Vinci war machine side missions Yeah, it's like wow I get to play with all these war machines again You know some of them are a little tricky to handle but you get my point Yeah, and you get the you get more exactly the more you do by doing it. Yeah, exactly like that You get your crossbow and stuff like exactly that's exactly what i'm saying like there is this there's this um tangible progression while um, you are doing all the side content and It also happens that with some of the side content you're interacting with characters Who haven't fleshed out throughout the previous game in this game, right? And you're doing stuff like for the factions that Within the main story you're partnering up with So it is a perfect balance and I think because um I think because like your mission as soon as you step foot in Rome is to liberate it and to make it a Better place all the side content for the most part is linked the objective the closest we got From to that was syndicate because it was also jephew jephew. Heylem But I think that was but I don't think syndicate nailed it But it had a similar like Philosophy and so I would like to see that again And it doesn't have to be like a liberation story or I am liberating the city But I want my side content To like whenever i'm taking a break from the main quest line I want to feel like what i'm doing on the side is still worth my time and effort and you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure like There was some kind of motivation to do stuff in odyssey, but literally it was just I'm a mercenary and want money Yeah, they had to go the witcher three route because it's like okay Well, if you create a character who does things for money, then you have a really interesting Well, not interesting really easy system to be like well, you're gonna help this fucking guy either way The only question is are you gonna get paid for it or not? Are you a really good guy who's just gonna do it for the good of your heart? Or are you gonna make the money and I always choose to make the money because It's more fun and just but yeah and just last thing like I I know I talked a lot about like I just I do think brotherhood has that has done it the best because There's a ton of shit to do in that game But like even just going back to like getting like the brutus armor like all of that feels like necessary You know because you go and do all those romulus tombs and guess what you get a reward for it It's not like in in the paris stories you complete all of them and to my knowledge You get nothing for doing 50 repetitive side quests in terms of yeah It's just for paris stories. You just get some exclusive gear sometimes which ultimately isn't the best stuff By a milestone watch all the murder for me and you can grab a gun out the bin So yeah, we just keep a lot of weapons in here. Just grab one So that's essentially like I think bringing back like narrative length gameplay progression Would be attractive because like and while AC one doesn't necessarily handle it perfectly because the game is kind of hard to play without certain mechanics But I do like how over time you get new weapons and better weapons and new skills and stuff So if they could do that in a more streamlined way, I'd appreciate it and also you have ac2 Where etio learns the climb leap through a character in the story, you know And I'm pretty sure it's like four sequences in that that happens It's not like it's the start of the game, you know, and it's like It it keeps you on your toes and I think it keeps the player involved and I like the idea of like The gameplay staying fresh By new things coming at you new mechanics and stuff like and just like putrid mentioned But in terms of the brotherhood side content with you helping leo You get upgrades and stuff through it. You're able to purchase upgrades again. So I don't know I think it's worth I think it'd be a worthwhile effort Yeah, in terms of applying all of this stuff to you know, the future games These are all just things that would bring the games back around to feeling Like they're at least accomplishing goals that the assassin's creed franchise had set for itself I think there's a really interesting discussion to be had about how we make these things fit with the Ubisoft MO of like, okay, they have to fit microtransactions into these things. Where does that come into play? But we've talked for two hours about this now and we've got a lot that we've said Hopefully listeners it all makes sense as a conversation about you know, what our ideal version of assassin's creed is I think that's going to wrap it up for this week As always guys, there are things you can do to support us if you like listening to this podcast Like or subscribe to our youtube channel leave us a comment on our youtube video Um recommend the podcast to your friends who love assassin's creed Or who just think it might be cool to listen to a couple of uh, of funny and smart guys talk about a video game Don't forget handsome, you know, don't forget Ridiculously handsome at least in the case of tim and putrid. Yeah You're you're the most handsome over the three of us Disagree tim you're you're a vision of beauty. I have to say um No offense putrid. You're also beautiful. Thank you so much putrid for joining us. Thank you putrid on the podcast Yeah, so Thanks for having me and we hope uh, you you join us many more times in the future Oh for sure. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Thanks for having me on We will uh, see you next week