 Nigeria has a new president, Bola Tinubu, and his tenure has gotten off to quiet a rocky start. On May 29th, the day he was inaugurated, he said very suddenly it seemed in a speech that fuel subsidies would go, and there was massive chaos in the country, people forming queues. Fuel subsidies are a very important part of Nigeria's economy at this point of time. But also, who is Bola Tinubu? What is his agenda? He came to power after a controversial election. We'll be discussing all this with Chiro Anuma, a very prominent Nigerian journalist. Thank you so much for speaking to us. It's a pleasure to be here. Right. So to begin with, let's get a controversial speech when he said that fuel subsidies must go and the reports say that there were huge queues, there was a lot of uncertainty about what would happen. So could you maybe just give us a context of why did he say that fuel subsidies must go? That too in his inaugural speech. And what is the politics around that? Well, thank you. The whole concept of fuel subsidy in Nigeria has been a very controversial one. Economist, public analyst, commentators, Nigerian citizens in general have over the years discussed and debated it. It's just a reflection of the sad state of both the Nigerian state itself, but also the problem, the prices of leadership. So for me, when you talk about fuel subsidy, you need to understand the dynamics of. So why do we have subsidy? Mr. Buari, who was president from 2015 to just a few days ago, he was president for two times for eight years. Incidentally, he was the minister of petroleum. Before he came to power in 2015, he had announced publicly was one of the things on his campaign trail that fuel subsidy was a scam. And that there was no anything like fuel subsidy. And then he came to power and then debate started all over again. It's just part of the elite control of both the Nigerian economy and the Nigerian state. And you don't understand. So when you ask the question, why do you have fuel subsidy? They say it's because Nigeria imports fuel. We have crude oil. So why do we import fuel? We have four refineries in the country. None is working. If you look at the political economy of subsidy and fuel importation, you ask yourself how much trillions of Naira that goes into importing fuel, much of this fuel is diverted. It's the same cronies in big men, in government, elite capture of the state. They are the ones in control of the state and the ones in control of the petroleum sector and so on. So you spend trillions of Naira according to them in subsidizing petrol. How much does it cost to build a refinery? How much does it cost to fix one or two of the four refineries we have? Because every year the NNPC, the national oil company, incurs debts for turnaround maintenance of these refineries for staff salaries and so on, for not doing anything basically, not producing oil. So I think the whole fuel subsidy thing is just, it's difficult to understand. And then when they talk about petrol being subsidized, making allusion to how much is a liter of fuel in countries like, say, the United States or Canada, you begin to wonder. Fuel subsidy here is not about cars. Fuel in Nigeria is not about fueling your vehicle. Fuel in Nigeria is about the barber, the hair salon, the market women, the hotels because everything needs generator, alternative source of power to function. So even when you increase fuel, you are not just targeting the middle class who own cars. You're targeting the average Nigerian who needs fuel at every juncture in his interaction with the state, his interaction with other citizens, whether there are no efficient public transport system in the country, there are no alternative transport system like rail, sky train and even bus effective public buses to transport people. So it's a difficult period for most Nigerians, for a majority of Nigerians. People are already beginning to feel the impact, prices of the cost of transportation has tripled. And that means the prices of goods and services will triple in the next one week. If not earlier than that, labor has threatened to call a nationwide strike by when as they meet next week. Nobody is certain how all of this is going to pan out. But it's really a difficult period for Nigerians and it's hard to understand why a government that came to power in the midst of general national chaos and discomfort after eight years of terrible rule, misrule of Mr. Buhari would in the middle of your inaugural speech, which for me should be a feel good speech and welcoming you to the country, the governance of the country and all of that should in the middle of that statement announce that fuel subsidy would go. Right. And this brings us to a very interesting question, which is of the current president himself, the new president, who he came to power, of course, in elections. It is a very, you know, hotly contested elections, three candidates, including Peter Obey, who was seen as a candidate of the trade unions and was also, according to media reports, very popular among the youth. But we see Bola Thinubu, who's, I believe, also perceived as an establishment candidate, someone who's very deeply entrenched in the political establishment of Nigeria. So could you maybe tell us a bit about who the new president is, what his agenda is, what is really, what really has he been promising Nigerians and what contributed to his victory in the elections? Well, it's a very controversial election and you're right in saying that the case is still in court. So we don't know how that's going to pan out through of the major position candidates, Peter Obey of the Labour Party and Atiku Avibaka of the People's Democratic Party are in court. I think the electoral law says that the case has to be, has to end within 180 days from when it starts. So we're hoping that that would happen in the next six months, maximum. But having said that, the man is president, when you look at the speech he gave on Monday, the 29th of May, just was just full of platitudes, you know, general thing will do this, will do this. There weren't any concrete takeaways as far as I'm concerned. In part because of the work I do, which which intersects with doing governance and anti-corruption and accountability, we were looking at very clear statements in terms of his anti-corruption posture and position because corruption, as many people who are interested in Nigeria know, is a high hydra-headed monster, which has really caused a lot of havoc, both in terms of governance and in terms of development and so on. So there wasn't any clear blueprint. He mentioned something to the effect that they would activate a credit system to tackle corruption and develop the support of the anti-corruption agency. We were looking, in fact, one of the most influential newspapers in the country, the Punch Newspapers, came out with the editorial ZE Studio two days ago tackling him on the needs to come out clearly to tackle corruption. He met with the head of the foremost anti-corruption agency in Nigeria, the Economic and Financial Client Commission, two days ago. Beyond the photo ops, we don't know concretely what the outcome of the meeting is. So that then plays into the man himself very little is known. And we as an organization, and when I say we, the organization that I supervise the African Center for Media and Information Literacy, Africa, we also, a day or two after that inaugural address, we had issued a press statement asking him to publicly declare his assets. Constitutionally, every public officer in the country is supposed to declare his asset, which is domiciled with the Code of Conduct Bureau. So we've gone a step further to say he should make his asset publicly. They haven't, nobody has responded to that thing. It's not likely they would. We did the same for Mr. Buwari, and they did not ask our request. We did the same for Mr. Goodluck, Jonathan, the man who was president between 2010 and 2015. In fact, in the case of Mr. Jonathan, if I remember correctly, we had written directly to the Code of Conduct Bureau requesting, using the Freedom of Information Act, requesting for that information, and they wrote back to say, oh, they couldn't provide that because the Constitution or the law of the land doesn't permit that, even though the law says there is no clear law that says you have to make the Code of Conduct or the asset declaration form of public officers, you have to make it public. But it says public officers are supposed to submit their assets. Then there is a Freedom of Information Law, which empowers citizens to make requests, to make a FOI request to government institutions. So there was no breach, but they ignored us. So we are not sure, then, if it's not able to do something as simple as declaring its assets or making it public, how transparent this regime is going to be, and if the regime is not transparent in terms of its, well, in terms of accountability, it's going to be difficult to know how we can ensure good governance, other than the fact that he was involved in the pro-democracy movement during the Abacha period of 1993 and 1998. When Abacha died, then he would return to democracy in 1999, and he became governor. So he became governor for two terms between 1999 and 2007, and the fact that he's been very active politically, that's the much we know about the man who is president today. Very little is known about his background, the primary school he attended, the secondary school he attended, his university education. There is a lot of doubt about that, the source of wealth. Before joining in politics, there is a lot of doubt about that. So there is so much uncertainty around surrounding him, that people do not know. And of course, the most important being his health, he's been in and out of Europe for medical treatment, and he looks quite frail, even at inauguration. Very many people saw pictures and videos of him, and it's really caused a lot of debate and conversation in the country. So we don't know how all of this is going to affect governance, but yeah, as I said, when I started, it's really, it caused for a lot of worry and Nigerians are concerned. Right, of course, like you started off by saying there's definitely a crisis in the country. I believe the unemployment rate is around 33%. Like you yourself mentioned, the kind of impact fuel prices, for instance, or the increase in fuel prices might have on the vast majority of citizens is quite severe. There have been reports of, I believe, migration of workers as well. People's dispatch itself has done quite a bit on health workers there in Nigeria who are facing a lot of crisis. So from the government side, from the new government side, has there been any kind, either during the election campaign or after, has there been any kind of vision of how they want to address some of these issues in a sustainable manner? Not at all, and perhaps who may need to do many more interviews in the days and weeks ahead, because the expectation, looking at the eight years of Mr. Buhari and how slow things were, the expectation was that this government would throw a different path. So the government was sworn in on Monday, the 29th of May, it was not just yesterday until yesterday that it announced its first major appointment. So the chief of staff who is currently the speaker of the National Assembly who is not likely to resume office until the National Assembly is dissolved later this month and then a former minister in the Buhari administration who was appointed secretary to the government of the Federation. Two, three days after he was sworn in, there were lots of materials flying around concerning who would be who, ministerial list, nobody was sure there were statements coming from his party people, coming from some of his clothes associates about the nature of the removal of fuel subsidies. Some people were saying, no, fuel subsidy wasn't removed, it wasn't immediate and so on. So it's also shaking the confidence of Nigerians in the new government, the expectation was that by now, almost a week after there would have been the list of ministers, as I speak, there's yet to be a spokesperson named for the government so you don't even know who to approach when you want to get information or when you see certain information in the media who to confirm it or to be sure the source of that information. We don't know how long it's going to last. Once you don't do that immediately, the expectation is that we would need to see more of the government, he's met with the service chief, according to the news, got briefing on the security situation in the country, we don't know what the plans are. So to answer your question directly, there's no clear blueprint in terms of general. Okay, the only major announcement that has come has been that for those who are seeking foreign exchange, for example, you need to present your tax clearance certificate for three years preceding when you would apply. So perhaps it's one way, maybe the whole idea of generating revenue for the states. And again, going back to the economy, there was the news report that they were going to have a unified exchange rate, that caused a lot of stone. Nobody, the central bank came out to deny the statement, the newspaper that reported it said, is stood by story and so on. So there is no clarity really where the nation is heading, what specific policy programs and actions the government is going to take on any particular issue, whether it's on health, whether it's on education, whether it's on foreign policy, whether it's on internal security or the economy. In general, we're hoping, expecting that maybe perhaps in the days, maybe weeks ahead, that those pro-landsmen will be made. Right, Gideon, finally, of course, a quick question on the overall political climate in the sense that there was a sense during the election and even in the previous years, especially after the Ansar's protest and then we had the elections in which there was a general interest among the youth, that's what a lot of reports and sources we spoke to said there was a general interest and rise in, would it be accurate to say that there was a rise in political consciousness and involvement? And if so, what does that imply? Yes, those who see that are quite right, I don't think and have been involved in the political process around here for about three decades. I don't think maybe perhaps also with the emergence of social media and new information and communication technology, but for some reason, I think Mr. Buhari failed a lot of Nigerians, those who had so much hope in the government. And once after the first four years that the signs were terrible, people began to shift position and started looking up to a new government. And that was the period of the Ansar's thing and young people wanted to take their future and the future of the country in their hands. So there is great interest in the political process in the country, how it's governed, who is doing what, the electoral election case is still in court. People, young people participate actively when the case comes up in court and people are still, there are many people who are still hopeful that the courts would decide in the favor of the opposition candidate, Mr. Peter Albi, who they think won the election. So it's a bit measured now in terms of there's some sense of stability, but how long this is going to last. As the very fractured nation, the society is divided and I've said this repeatedly, not since the Civil War have we seen the level of division we see in the country today. The expectation was that Mr. Tunibu would start immediately to heal these wounds. People have called for the release of Nandikalu, for example, the head of the grouping from the south is part of the country that's calling for an independent state of Biafra that hasn't happened, there hasn't been any statement either to that effect. There hasn't been any kind of rapprochement in itself, reaching out to opposition candidates or other people from other parts of the country who feel equally aggrieved or concerned about the outcome of the election. So it's difficult to say how all of this is going to play out, but people are worried, they are concerned, they are interested in the outcome of the current government, but also in the general political outlook of the country. So for example, we'd have to see what, when is the, when labor goes on strike, if it does, what that means. So for me, the uncertainty, you can really feel it in terms, when you also look at news stories, you look at social media, you look at the conversations that go on in public buses or public space and so on. But yeah, we just wait and see how all of this comes together, but certainly there is reason to be concerned and a lot is going to change around here, whether positively or negatively, or to what extent it's what we don't know. Right. Thank you, Omar Chidro, for talking to us, for giving us an insight into the very fractious, like you described, political situation in Nigeria. We'll definitely be tracking the workers' strike on Wednesday as well as talking, as well as doing reports on that. Thank you for watching People's Dispatch as well.