 I have another meeting at seven and I'm going to need to get some things done for it. We should be out of here by six 30 or maybe okay. I'm not making any promises, but. The efficient here. Okay. Shall I start? Yes. Okay. Good afternoon. The appointed hour at five o'clock PM has been reached and I welcome everybody to the meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. My name is Catherine Porter chair of the Amherst Design Review Board and I'm calling this meeting to order pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GLC 30 a section 18 and the governor's March 15 2020 order imposing strict limitations on the number of people that may gather in one place. This public hearing of the town of Amherst Design Review Board is being conducted via remote participation. This meeting will be held in person. No in-person audience, attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but the public can attend tonight's virtual meeting by using the zoom login information provided on the meeting agenda listed on the meeting calendar, which provided on the town of Amherst website. We will begin with our roll call of the members of the Design Review Board who have been impaneled for the meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. Let's move on to the agenda. Board members, would you please say I or yes to acknowledge your attendance for the record? Lindsay Schnarr. Yes. Okay. Janet Marquard. Yes. Erica Zecos. Yes. I'm Catherine Porter and Tom Long. The other member is not here. Also when attendees as Marine Pollock planner and staff are involved in the meeting, the design review board, DRB and its accompanying zoning regulations were created by town meeting on October 8, 1983. The charge and purpose of the design review board under section 3.2 of the zoning bylaw is to preserve and enhance the town's cultural, economic and historical resources by providing for a significant increase in land use, the appearance of structures and the appearance of sites which may affect these resources. The design review board exercises this responsibility by providing design review and recommendations to private applicants and permit granting boards within specific overlay zoning districts in the town center. The design review board overlay district and the town common design review overlaid district design review was also provided for town departments and permit granting boards with respect to town projects anywhere in Amherst, which will result in substantial alteration to the form or appearance of a structure or site. All design review board meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. Each meeting recording will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel for public viewing. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the board during the meeting after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information. After the board has completed its questions, the board will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board will have enough information and time, it will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board will type up the recommendations for distribution to the applicant, board applicable land use board and building commissioner. We will see if there are any, I think we're going to start with announcements. I'm looking at the agenda here. Are there any announcements? Is there any new business? Not anticipated. 48 hours prior to the meeting. If not, then we're going to go to applications. DRB FY 2021-09. Town of Amherst to review the proposed design alternatives for the Pomeroy village intersection project. Located at the intersection of west street, 116 and Pomeroy west Pomeroy streets. So who's going to present that to us? Is that going to be Chris? Yes. Yes. Marine's going to help me by showing the slides. Okay. One second. Let me pull that up. So that was, here we go. And this is a new slide show that's, or this is the slide show that's abridged from the January. 25th meeting. That's correct. Okay. Let's send it to you this afternoon. Okay. So go ahead and start on the first slide. Title slide. Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. So good evening. My name is Chris Brestrup and I'm the planning director for the town of Amherst. I'm the planning director for the town of Amherst. We're seeking input from the public and from boards and committees. About the Pomeroy village center intersection project. At this time, we don't really have a design to show you, but we're going to be talking to you about concepts. And for the designer view board, since this is a town project, we'll be coming back to you once the design has been. More. We're going to be talking about the design and the design. And we're going to be talking about the design and the design. And we're going to be talking about the design and the design and the design on the details, but at this time we're kind of at the. 10,000 foot. View. So may I have the next slide, please. As you know, this is a meeting of the design review board. Traveling around listening to traveling around via zoom. Listening to input from the public. As well as from boards and committees. And we did receive comments from the planning board. I think it was at their, one of the more recent meetings. So anyway, we're, we're really, you know, As I said, I'm Chris Brestrup and I'm going to be listening to what you're saying and Maureen and I will be taking notes. You have the next slide, please. I'm going to be talking to you about why this project is coming up now and then provide a brief background on this intersection project and then ask for your ideas, questions, concerns and comments. We're not going to get down to the level of, you know, how wide is the sidewalk and how many trees are going to be planted or anything like that. As I said, this is like a 10,000 foot. View. Next slide, please. So Pomeroy village center lies in South Amherst at the intersection of Pomeroy lane, West Pomeroy lane and route 116, which is also known as West street. It has a mix of single family home neighborhoods, apartments and condominiums, businesses, offices and schools. It's a high traffic intersection, especially during rush hours. Next slide, please. So what types of challenges does this intersection have? Well, it has a lack of pedestrian. Access. It's definitely a car centered design that lacks proper sidewalks. Sidewalks that are there are narrow and very bumpy and not well maintained. It lacks curb ramps for people to get down from the sidewalk into a place where they can cross the street. It lacks crosswalks. It doesn't have any bike lanes. And the existing traffic signals don't have pedestrian operated signals for crossing. So, I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good problem with cars backing up or queuing in the afternoon. As people come southbound to pick up their children at the preschools. And as people leave Amherst to drive home, South Adley and Grandley and point south. Next slide, please. The town of Amherst applied for and received $1.5 million from the straight is from the state in a mass works grant. The city of Amherst has been working with the city of Amherst to provide safety and efficiency. Pedestrian and bicycle safety. And we'll provide well designed bus stops for transit riders. The project is a collaboration between the department of public works and the planning department. With review and approval by the town council, which has jurisdiction over the public ways. Next slide, please. So the project has a long history. It began back in the 1990s. The city of Amherst has been working with the city of Amherst to improve the intersection. But they wanted to do it in a way that the residents of Amherst didn't think was appropriate. So the town asked to take over the road. And the town now owns the root one 16 from the intersection of root nine. And college street with South. South pleasant up in the center of town. All the way down to country corners road. So the city of Amherst has been working with the city of Amherst to provide safety and efficiency. So the city of Amherst has control of that stretch of road. In the early 2000s, the town installed traffic signals there prior to that, it had been a four way stop with stop signs. And these were meant as placeholders. They weren't really meant as a permanent solution. And. There was a recognition that a new design would have to be made of the intersection. So there was a sense of the. Well, actually, I should say the DPW and the planning department with the assistance of the design review board. Developed a design for the intersection with lots of public input, including meetings and surveys, but there wasn't any money to build the improvements. The design review board was very involved at that time. They held multiple public meetings. We issued a survey and it was really, you know, part of design review to work on this design. But we applied for a MassWorks grant to build that design in 2013 and we weren't successful in getting the money from MassWorks. So then this past year in 2020, we did apply again for the MassWorks grant and this time we were successful. Next slide, please. So I'm here to inform you about the project and to seek input from you to help the council decide what type of intersection to develop. The town council needs to make a decision by June as to whether to develop an enhanced signalized intersection or to develop a roundabout. And I'd like to tell you a little about those two types. So a signalized intersection is controlled or regulated by traffic signals or road signs. And this is the type of intersection that we're most familiar with. And you can see an image of what that looks like in this picture here. The roundabout is a circular intersection where drivers travel counterclockwise around a center island. There are usually no traffic signals or stop signs in a roundabout. Drivers yield as they approach the roundabout and then they enter the roundabout and exit at their desired street. This type of intersection is becoming more popular and more common here and elsewhere. Next slide, please. So the questions that we'd like you to focus on tonight, as I said, we don't really have a design that is to the point where you can give detailed comments, but we'd like you to tell us whether you, how you use the intersection, do you travel through it? And if you do, do you walk, drive, bike ride or travel by transit? What improvements would you like to see in Pomeray Village Center? What features are most important to you in the redesigned Pomeray Village intersection? How can we make the area more welcoming and how can we help to support businesses in the Village Center? Next slide, please. So what are the opportunities for public input? Town staff has been meeting with various groups, including Town Council, the TSO or Town Services and Outreach Committee, with the District 5 community where the project is located and we're contacting abutting property owners and meeting with business operators. We'll be contacting people who live in the area and there's also an interactive website, www.engageammers.org. The Town Council is holding committee meetings and they have hosted two open public meetings, one on Thursday, March 25th and another on Saturday, March 27th and they're soliciting written public comments. The TSO is meeting again on April 8th and April 22nd and they're hoping to make a recommendation to the Town Council at their meeting on April 22nd. So we'd like to hear from you, the design review board about your ideas and questions and concerns. And once the town has hired design engineers to design the project, this project will be coming back to the DRB for specific comments and recommendations on the design. So now we'd like to hear from you. Thank you. Thank you. Are there some thoughts that people would like to offer at this time? Erica, maybe you would since you've been somewhat familiar with it. Sure. Yeah, I am a South Emerson resident and I do travel through this intersection quite a bit, usually on my way through to pick up dinner at El Comolito Civis or Mission Cantina, all my favorite places. But I do also travel through here by bike from time to time in the warm months and I'm really mindful that this intersection is very, very car oriented and not at all oriented to the pedestrian or the cyclist. And I think that whatever we do, while I am leaning towards a roundabout for a couple of reasons that I'll explain in a minute, whatever we do, we really need to keep the pedestrian and the cyclist first in mind with things like wider sidewalks, better lighting, protected and maybe even signaled crossings, not pedestrian initiated light or audio signaled for crossings. I am leaning towards thinking that a rotary is the better choice here for a couple of reasons. One is that traffic calming is baked into the design. You must slow down. It's gonna be a single lane rotary. And so you slow down on a approach and you must continue to be slow upon the exit of a rotary. And I think that traffic calming is something I've heard. I've been to two public meetings about this intersection already and I've heard that from multiple people. And also a rotary is the more environmentally friendly solution. People simply don't idle as much. And so you're not admitting as pollution into the air. And so I think that as a town that's trying to be mindful of our carbon emissions, this is a better choice. So definitely wanna keep the pedestrian and the cyclist first in mind. I know that there are concerns about rotary safety, especially for visually impaired pedestrians. And I know that there also are design measures that can be taken to help that. And one of them is that islands, small islands between the lanes so that there's a kind of a safe place that divides the distance of the crossing in half. And I think that could be done with either a signal or a rotary, but wanted to suggest that as well. And then generally speaking, I think because this part of town is kind of emerged slowly over time that the architecture doesn't have a common voice and there's a lot of parking on the street instead of buildings on the street. And so that definition should be provided with landscaping. Landscape buffers and street trees to help unify that stretch that is within the purview of this project. I have a few other things on my list, but I'll cede to somebody else talk for a minute. Okay. Jan or Lindsey, either one of you have any thoughts on this? I do, I express them at some other meetings but I think Chris has heard, but it's been a while. I have pretty extensive experience with roundabouts in the British Isles, fewer on the European continent, but they're also there. And I think as a driver of a vehicle, they're great. They do slow you down. I hate them as a pedestrian or a cyclist. And I also think the intersection is too small for a proper roundabout. I think it's really hard if it's so small, like the one that's at Pleasant and what is that? Triangle Street. It's so tiny that you can't get in it and get out of it to know whether somebody else is getting in or getting out of it. There just isn't time to see the flow. I prefer the way that the British do it in small intersections when you're coming in from an open road that's faster like we have and they have all these small highways and then they go through a village and they keep going. The road narrows to just barely the two lanes for a few hundred feet. And then it opens into the multiple lanes that are necessary if there's a left turn or whatever. And then it closes up again until it opens back into the main road. And that slows people down, but it also allows pedestrian crossings that are safer because you've already slowed way down. There's signs that tell you you're entering our village. Please drive slowly, it's walked down to 25 or 20 miles per hour. And then there's clear crosswalks and bike lanes. And then it opens back out. And this to me works better than a roundabout which is really, I think for cars and trucks. I also would just have to say that I drive there, it's true a lot, but I also walk around it and I walk to and from it on Pomeroy and Pomeroy East is in terrible shape. That street really needs repaving. It's even walking, let alone driving on it. There's places where there's a bridge at one point and if it's icy, one whole side of the street is it's not cleared. And so it stays, the one that's in the shade stays iced over and there's no sidewalk on the other side. And it's really, you don't have to walk right in front of right in the lane with traffic in the winter along there. Pomeroy East, some treatment as well. I realized that this grant doesn't extend that far but it's maybe something that will be collateral DPW, you know, project. So thank you. Let's see, Lindsey. Hi, I don't live right there but I do drive that way a lot and it does provide a lot of access through to, well, lots of places but I, so I am very familiar with it. I tend to think that while I appreciate the some of the points that Erica made about kind of the conscientious nature of roundabouts, I think that I do have some concern about it for pedestrian use specifically. So I don't, I guess that's, you know, the question of like how, what are some good examples of ways in which roundabouts have been introduced with high kind of like focus on pedestrian safety. So I think that area in particular is very active for pedestrians, both in terms of people that are just kind of dashing between parking lots. I know that Mission Cantina often gets overflowed in their parking. And so people park on the other side, people are crossing at night often. I know I have, and there's not a lot of traffic so I don't worry as much but I do know that I even will admit to the fact that with some of the new roundabouts that have gone into town that I don't know, there's just a tendency to kind of like move a little faster partly because you're trying to get in line and, you know, get in queue, but also it's just, there's an expectation that there's not as much of a delay. So I worry a little bit about that, like people just kind of like moving more quickly through that intersection, especially with the tendency for it to be a high kind of foot traffic or bike traffic area. Then I know there's the Amherst Montessori School there. I don't know how much that really gets a lot of kid traffic but there are just so many restaurants that are in that little area that it feels like a place where it could be a really lovely pedestrian intersection. But I guess I just, I feel like the Rotary is more about like moving people, moving cars through quickly versus like giving the focus to the slowed down pedestrian pace. That's just kind of a personal take though. The data is irrefutable that it's, Rotaries are slower and safer for cars. And I've been my friend Tracy Zafian, who's on the Transportation Advisory Committee, forwarded me some links about pedestrian safety and there are a lot of things that can be done. And I think regardless of which direction the town goes with this intersection that they'll want to take those design methods into consideration. But Rotary does slow the car down. And so whether that ends up being safer for pedestrians because the car never fully stops, is it's harder to gauge how to cross. So. Ms. Porter, if I may, I just want to point out to clarify just one or two things. So I've heard members talk about Rotaries and then sometimes roundabouts. They're actually two distinctly different designs, which is very common sometimes I interchange them but they are very different. So a Rotary is typically large with entry speeds of 40 miles per hour or higher. A roundabout is generally small. Speeds are rarely more than 25 miles per hour. And so a roundabout is designed to slow down vehicular traffic and a Rotary you often see along highways, particularly if you've been into Boston, Sullivan Square would be a perfect example of a very unsafe Rotary, a classic Rotary and like mass DOT and DOTs across the country are trying to actually get away from Rotaries that are designed to speed traffic, masses of traffic. And roundabouts are about, they're intended to slow down vehicular traffic. I just wanted to clarify that. Okay. Thank you. Why does that have a couple of thoughts? I know that roundabout there's something sort of, I don't know, peaceful to me. I've gotten used to them but first I wasn't so happy about them. I do have that same concern about pedestrians because I go through the triangle roundabout quite a bit and see people trying to cross the street and they sort of jump from one curb to the island. And that couldn't be the once people get used to it and it's designed in such a way that it gives people that feeling that they can make it through the roundabout or navigate the roundabout that might not be such a big thing. I think the whatever we do will improve the aesthetics of that intersection. It's really not a very, it's not a good looking intersection. And I think that if we just had the traditional new traffic lights with new curbing and landscaping, it would give it a much better look with some thought to the aesthetics of that area and probably I would hope we would get the same feeling from a roundabout. To me, when I get on the roundabout, I'm on a mission to get up to get on and get off and go someplace. And I'm not sure if that's conducive for people to come down there and then go to Mission Cantina or the other Mexican restaurant or Montessori school as maybe as easily as if they were doing, if they were going through an intersection, they might feel more apt to make a turn to do one of those things where it's a roundabout once you get in it's like a gerbil and a wheel. But I mean, I wouldn't vote definitely against it. I find myself sort of sitting on the fence about it, but and again, I don't know how it's gonna be a probably a relatively small area, but I think whatever we do, it will definitely improve the aesthetics of that intersection, which is getting to be more and more important. So I guess I think everybody said with a few exceptions. So those are my thoughts. So Chris, are you wanting just people's input or at this point is too early to make a recommendation of sort of a formal design review recommendation. What would be most helpful for you? Well, we're really looking for people's input, but if the board wants to make a recommendation, you're welcome to do that, but that's not really what we're seeking or most of the comments. Oh, also I believe Ms. Marquette has raised her hand. Oh, okay. I can't see it. Jan? Yeah, Marquette, not Marquette. Marquette, sorry. I knew it. I just wanted to say that whether you do a roundabout or a signaled intersection, I think that the crosswalk should be way far back from where the roads intersect. It's much safer. Never try and cross a roundabout. There should be a crosswalk long before it. And even if people have to walk over a little bit and then back, it's much safer. And I think that's true of an intersection as well. They shouldn't be right where the corners of the street come. So that would work for either one, but it allows people also, as they're crossing that a little bit further over, they look at the businesses. They pay attention to what's around them and waiting at a signal. Some of you see things you wouldn't have if there weren't one, whether it's in driving or biking or whatever. So that's an advantage to making it feel like a little town center. Any other thoughts from anybody? I have a comment I'd like Tony to share if it's okay. So one of the things that came up a while ago, not about this particular intersection but about another intersection was that a signalized intersection where you have two roads coming at right angles to one another makes it easier to develop the land on the corners. So you end up with four sort of rectangular shaped properties that you could conceivably develop. And this intersection, the one that we're talking about right now, even though it's got sort of haphazard development and the parking is towards the front of the buildings and the buildings are not what you would necessarily call a cohesive design. I think there's going to be development there in the future. And I guess my question for you all is what do you think about that? What do you think about the issue of a roundabout versus a standard intersection with regard to potential development of the corner properties? That's something that's been sort of gnawing at me. May I? Yes, go ahead. So one of the things I've heard is that like, I really appreciate your question, Chris. And one of the things that I've heard is that traffic numbers here are likely to instigate a need for turning lanes, which may erode those corner conditions that you're referring to. So I guess that's something we probably want to know more about as the design comes together. And of course, we are thinking that Hickory Ridge will, that property will be developed someday down the road. So maybe we need turning lanes in all directions. I don't know. But I do think it's an interesting idea. It's like if you could do something cohesive at the corners, you could begin to create some kind of an identity, an aesthetic identity. I just wanted to remind people about the possibility of turning lanes. Do you have any thoughts on that, Chris? Well, so when I first started talking about this with people back then, back when, and Jonathan Tucker was the planning director, he talked about this building that is right across from 500 courtyard and it is right on the street. And it's just the one north of R&P Liquor. It's a new building. And I think it was designed by Laura Fitch. Yeah. Anyway. Up here. School down. Further down. Oh, sure. It's in Cantina. It's a building that's kind of that one. Yeah. So that's a mixed-use building and that is up close to the street and it's got its parking behind it. And that was kind of the first, what should I say, line in the sand or something like that to make it, here is where we're going to form a village center. And we want it to be like this. We want it to be buildings close to the road, sidewalks in front of the buildings, parking behind. And I just feel like I question whether a roundabout is conducive to that type of development, to making this more of a village center as each of these corner parcels is developed in the future. We may not always have a gas station at that corner. We may not always have, you know, the slow buddy building that's surrounded by parking on the northwest corner or the seven Pomeranian lane that has parking right out in front. They may be designed in different ways. So I'm just feeling like that has to be brought into consideration when we're thinking about what configuration we want here. So anyway, that's just a thought. Chris, I think it actually argues again against the roundabout. I think you're absolutely right. It just doesn't feel as much of a village gathering place with buildings that could be close and interaction between them easily if you have the roundabout. And I would like to see that where there are a number of businesses or shops close together with parking not just obstructing access to them. And I think that would go nicely with sidewalk setback, signals that allow people to linger a little bit. Yeah, I'm going to agree with Jan and Chris on this. If you, as I've pondered this for a while because I know the planning board's been talking about it. And I really think for a center that the opportunity to have the intersection is better for creating a feeling of sort of a grounding of a center, of upon a more village center there. Whereas the roundabout, once you get on it, you're missing the corners or if you do, it could be more awkward, yeah. So I'm going to weigh in on an improved intersection, which could be very lovely and give a feeling of a community or a village center that people can manage in so many ways, bikes and walkways. So Chris, is there a parallel effort by the town to encourage new businesses to go in or anything, like say a coffee house or anything? Are we looking at getting more in here at the same time or is that completely something? It sort of grows by itself. It's sort of organic. And we don't have an economic development director right now. So we're not, you know, the town is not out seeking businesses to go here. I would say perhaps the Chamber of Commerce is. But the town as a body is not seeking particular businesses. But I'm hoping eventually we do get an economic development director and that he or she would do that. I wonder if it might be possible as part of the ongoing decision-making and research portion of this to collect some precedents of both cases at similar scales and other locations around the country even, where it might be that, because I tend to lean toward the same conclusion that the roundabout may not be as conducive to the type of community that may be envisioned for this location. But I also don't know that that's based on perhaps not knowing of examples that exist in which it has been conducive. So it might be true that if I were to see some examples of models for this type of design that my feelings would change. So I'd be curious to see what's out there in terms of examples at this scale that are images of intersections that do achieve the overall goals. Any other thoughts from the group? So Chris, are you OK with the seems more in favor of the roundabout? Is that correct? What's the impression I'm getting? So Chris, what would you like? I think this is good. She's in favor of the roundabout. OK, all right. Lots of different ideas. And I think this is probably what we're looking at at this time. I mean, if you wanted to take a vote, you could. But I'm not looking for a vote. So I suggest we not take a vote at this point. And if you're coming back with one or the other, unless others, I don't know that, firstly, that we need a vote. Is that anybody want to have a vote? Or can we just let Chris take our suggestions and take them on to the next group? And do more research. Right. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Chris. Very helpful here. Bye bye. Goodbye. So our next, do you want me to pull up the agenda? Yes, yes, right. It's the redo of the restaurant. Yes. OK. So let me make that would be Federico. OK. Let me make Federico a panelist. So bear with me for a minute. OK. Federico, OK. Hi, Federico. How are you? Hi. How are you? So welcome. Do you need help sharing your screen? Or I'm happy to share the screen with you for you. You don't mind. Yeah, sure. No problem. OK. And just give me one second. Let me open it because we made. OK, hold on. No, I thought about me here. I can share it. Oh, OK. Because that way we have questions that can show you different things. Yeah. And so this is your first time coming before the Design Review Board. So I'll just explain. So you'll give a presentation of what you're proposing and just walk the board members through that. And then the board will likely have questions and they'll be a back and forth. And if they have all the information they need, they'll make recommendations. Sure. So my name is Federico Mendiola and I am a restaurant tour. I have all the restaurants in Massachusetts. And we have one in Connecticut. The name of the restaurant is Frontera Grill, of those restaurants that I have. And the one coming to Amherst, it will be called Garcia's. It will be like the Frontera's, but with some additions and subtractions because of the folks at Amherst, students, maybe a little more salads with more protein. And my chef has been working on the menu to bring it to Amherst. So it's not going to be the one at Frontera, but it will be something very similar with the same ingredients, same proteins. And the Project Garcia's, we are looking to just remodel and get it ready, do a lot of cosmetic changes, bringing a lot of tile in there. This is pretty big, so we have to bring a lot of tile in there. We have two patios, and we're planning to bring furniture for the patios that is kind of vending. It is coming from Mexico, and it's going to be metal chairs that have ceiling tiles in them. And they'll be covered with this epoxy. And the sizes will be standard sizes of tables and chairs. The table will measure 35 by 35 by 35 with four chairs, and the same with, I think, a 14, what's coming up that are six tops. So the same specs, they're probably going to be five feet by 30 in these six chairs. And that is to give us some life to the patio and hopefully change the previous days that we had in Amherst with any businesses that came in before we came and to give it a positive energy to the town. And it will be a casual dining restaurant just like the Frontera Grills. And if you haven't been to Frontera Grills, it is a casual dining Mexican restaurant that has the typical burritos, fajitas, tacos, enchiladas that are typical. And we'll have margaritas. We'll have a beer tap. We'll have night spatials with food only, not with any drinks, because we've got to follow the law of Massachusetts. You cannot have any happy hour special time price on drinks in Massachusetts. So we are trying to bring in a good concept to Amherst. And we are not going to change anything on the outside. We are redoing the paving because he has to be done. It's been pre-beat up over the years. And there was a lot of cracks on the parking lot that they will get fixed. And the lighting will remain the same. We're not really touching anything outside. We're just trying to paint. And I'm going to scroll down to show you the paint that I projected. And I have also other options. If you feel that is maybe something that is too bright or different, this right here, the painting will be yellow. And the letters will be the letters Garcia's that will be on the front. Just like the picture shows. They will be on each side of the doors. And the letters will be placed in the space on top of the doors on a six-foot space. And the letters average probably 9, 10 inches each for the eye to be organized in that six-foot space on both sides. And they are LED lights. The letters are red on the front. And they're black on the side. And there will be time when they come on and come off. Probably automatic with time savings light. And that's pretty much what we're trying to do. And we're looking for any comments or questions that you might have for us. OK. Thank you. Thank you. Did you want to, Federico, did you want to show them? You had some photos of the outdoor patio? Yeah, the patio. Now, this would not be your, this is a bigger patio from another restaurant. But this is the idea that. Yeah, correct. Yeah, this is probably one and a half the size of, we have on the side of the faces, the inside of the parking lot. But this is the idea also the umbrellas will be probably something different provided by us and put out there with heavy footing that will stand the wind. And we have done that in Chicopee. We did that last year during the pandemic when we were allowed to open. We put tables that were six feet apart and we provided umbrellas that were put on the ground with the 25 foot base made of steel that we purchased at a local store. And we put two sandbags of 25 pounds each on each one of them to secure them to the ground. So this probably will be the same in that way. It doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't hurt anybody. And besides the tables, we're looking to put nine to 10 tables. There's going to be four and six, nine to 10 tables on both sides. So they will not be close to any tables when we put them in because we're not looking to put a lot of people on the patio. It's just going to be something that's going to accentuate the ethnicity of the restaurant from the outside when people are driving by or walking by or visiting the restaurant. OK. Did you say you have a restaurant in Chicopee? Is that what you said? Yes, ma'am. Is this the Grille of the Rotary of Memorial Drive on James Street? Oh, OK. Do you have a side entrance? A directs from here? They do. Yeah, it's a side entrance. It's an extricate people coming from some place in there. Excuse me. Do you repeat the question? Yeah, do you have a side exit or an entrance on this window side? I think. Oh, on the patio side, the door that would serve us. OK. The service come out through the door. OK. Yeah, actually, could you scroll to like the beginning of this, I think? And that's you provided the site plan and floor plan from used for Porta. And are you using the same layout as before? For Porta in our restaurant? Yeah, this was part of your application. This is what you had submitted with your application. So is there, if you scroll up one more, I wonder if it shows the outdoor dining? Whoop. Oh, no, it doesn't. Oh, yeah. So here it shows to the right. It shows that there's outdoor dining. Yeah. Can I, OK. Let's see here that there's outdoor dining in the front along East Pleasant Street and then. So this is what we're talking about. And there's the exit from the restaurant. And there is a little larger. And there are two doors on this one because it's a little bit larger. And this goes towards the bathroom. So we'll make sure that when we direct people, folks that come to visit the restaurant for for the general safety, we'll probably ask them to use this door to go towards the bathroom because it's not going to be the one that has the most traffic because this one will be the one where servers will be coming from the bar area in the kitchen to exit through the door. Yeah. All right. So design review board members, your comments or questions. Who would like to start? Anybody have thoughts? Well, I just say one thing that not having the purple will be a great relief to, I think, most people in Amherst. This would be a major color. I don't know. But one other thought, you have the same amount of parking space that was originally associated with Bertucci's. Can you also park around near the spoke? Or is your parking limited to your? No, absolutely. I believe the last time I checked the parking spots, there was 12 and 62 parking spots plus four handicapped spaces right in front of the restaurant by the door, by the front door. So if you try to cross the patio from the restaurant doors spoke, those will be the first four spaces that are marked as handicapped. And when we get done with the paving, they will remain the same first four spots for accessibility. And the spots behind the spoke, those are common spaces between the spoke and ours. So I'm going to try to have my staff, the best I can, to have them park those spots first. That way, the customers and patrons that come, they are a little bit closer to the restaurants because most of the employees will be in there for several hours. And people that come into the restaurant, they're probably average maybe an hour and 20 minutes of the restaurant. OK. So questions, comments from anybody? Shall I just go down? Lindsay? Yeah, I mean, I think this all looks really good. So I think my only concern is I think the color looks nice. And I don't think it's too bright necessarily, at least in the first rendering. But color is funny in that it can change depending on the lighting. And so I think you're working with Cunadol on this. Yeah. So I'm sure they'll then are they managing the exterior color? No, this render I had it done with defaults that I'm working with in Mexico. Cunadol offered to do it, but this was already done. If I may, and I understand about the color that might fade over time, I have some options that I would like to run by you and get your input. And because these are going to be colors also that could be the ones that we could change the building's colors too. I was prepared and I picked different colors to see what you would envision being as the best choice for the restaurant. And if I can share out, please don't know. I like this. This yellow is a little subdued. And I like that. If it can be held true to that, not turn out to be like a way. The next slide of the patio, even you can see it already here, is much yellow. That really is too bright. Yeah, this is almost a globe. That would be the shade of the sun. So when the sun heats it, it's going to get its full potential. And when it has a little shade, it's going to be seen as a little darker. But the code that you follow with paints, you go to the, if I can share here in a moment, you go to the people and you pick a color that is the one that is going to be on the building. OK. Let me see how I can share. OK. So you could stop the share and open the file that you want to show. Yeah. Thank you. So I go, do I go share screen or no? Yeah, sure. Share screen. And so that will show everything that you have open on your computer. Yeah. And how do I go to my desktop? Well, is the file, is it open? Is the file open with the files in it? Oh, OK. Then you need to change your view so that you don't see the whole screen presume at the top. Yeah. Well, he might have, sometimes when you have multiple PDFs open, it can kind of get a little wonky. Would you want to email it to me if you're not able to? Yeah. Let me see if I can change from here. I'm going to try to share the screen because in that folder I have like five, six different colors. And I have a render with one potential favorite color that we chose that you can see the building that is painted with it. OK. I'm going to assume. I don't have some calls. Well, you're doing great, especially for your first time. So sorry. Let's see here. I'll probably just take a couple of seconds, probably take a few seconds for it to get to my email. We didn't get it on the original application. And I submitted it to Jennifer Mullins with the original application. But when I got the link, when she sent me the link a few days ago, it's not on there. It's not attached to it. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, I'm glad that you're bringing it up. So sorry that didn't. I wouldn't. It just happens. There are so many moving parts that it's hard to keep track of everything at the time. Sure. So did you send that to my email, which is PollockM? And it's going to be fast if I do it from my phone. What is your email again? Pollock, P-O-L-L-O-C-K, M as in Maureen. So it's PollockM. OK. OK. All right. Maureen sent. He just sent. Great. Yeah. If it was a consensus that you guys overall thought this gel would be too bright or too not good enough for the building, please feel free to tell me if one of the colors is more appropriate. I have my lead more towards the one color that's a little more on the dark orange side. In every color that I submit, he has a name on top of the swatch that I chose from the Home Depot. So that way, you can see that that color is not going to change. So if I was able to paint the building, that would be the code that we will buy. So it's going to be darker and lighter on another side. OK. So let me start over. OK. OK. This is what I have. OK. OK. It's orange. Here's what I'm saying. With sort of a gray trim, is that right? Yeah. Looking at the trim, I think we're just looking at the paint color. OK. Which one here? Let me see. Let me look at the screen again. Is that the question? Which one is one of these? Yeah. Is it one or the other? I wasn't watching the screen because I was trying to navigate through the other screens. So that's a laser lemon or some English daisy? The laser lemon is to turn it down and make it a little dark so it's not as bright and light that will fade away too easy over time. Yeah. The laser lemon. Uh-huh. And the name of the one that I sent, if you can look at the picture there. Is there another one? Oh, hold on a second. Is it one that is called English daisy? Right. Yeah, they're both up. Yeah, we've got those. And was there another one? I think that was it. Oh, did we? I think we saw it. Invento. And if you look at the building, it has a render with that. Oh, dear. Right there. Yeah. Don't mind the sign because that was very early. Yeah, right. So that's not going to be a sign. Would you, did we see a sign proposed for facing the road here? Not there. No, I was going to have only signs over the door on both sides. This. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yep, yep. That right there. OK. Then I have a green one. But I believe those will be brighter. I have two green ones that I sent in also. Yeah, I think maybe not green. Yeah. Oh, I have a question about the, you know, I think the color, as I said before, it's its own science, right? And so I don't know that there's a tendency to me to do at least a mock up if not have the architects oversee this because there's a lot to take into consideration. I mean, I definitely leaned for the laser lemon in terms of the options that are provided for a number of reasons. I think the green is too bright and I think the orangey red, while in its own face could be fine, I think in the context of against some of these other buildings that have this kind of reddish orange brick might be a question of how well those either match or contrast in a way that you may not anticipate. So I lean toward the gold, but I also question if this laser lemon is going to read more like gold or read more like mustard colored. And I think, again, in certain locations, a mustard can be fine, but it can also be really loud. And given that this building has already kind of become an eyesore in terms of its color, I just I hope that you'll be able to land on a color that really works well here. And I do think that that kind of like gold, the more muted gold could look really nice the way it's shown in this rendering. But I agree that in some of the follow-up images, it starts to read a little too yellow, like a little too yellow mustardy. So I think it's a question both of finding that right, finding that right color, but also perhaps having a designer's eye on it might not be a bad idea. And certainly doing a mock-up, like a patch on the wall, maybe even like a whole swath of a wall, given that it's against that blue and it's gonna be really hard to tell before getting the whole painting, the whole building. And I think that's what the architects would oversee as well. And advise us to do some kind of portioned mock-up to make sure that the color really reads the way that it's intended. So I don't know what the reasoning is for not having them manage that part, but I think that they certainly would be a good candidate for ensuring that the color is handled appropriately. And if they don't handle it, I think it might be a question of finding a way to make sure that the mock-up is done and certain kind of reviews are perhaps done as well to just check on it. Because like I said, I think it could be really lovely and it could be a miss, right? So. I agree with that. And I've also learned over the years that the color that you pick on the swatch always is more intense and brighter when it gets on the wall out in the light, particularly outdoor. So it may look fine in the store or just on the swatch itself, but it's gonna really intensify over a large wall. And our light in the Northeast is very different from the light in Mexico or in California where I grew up and colors come across very differently here than they do in that light. So I agree that getting a sample tin of paint and even painting white behind it around it so that that blue is offset and painting a considerable section of wall to see how it appears in the light here. And with the surrounding buildings would be important. I would 100% agree with getting some paint and painting a wall. But so about, so Lindsay and Jan, let's suppose he does this, what would be the, do we wanna see it? Do we wanna go down and take a look at it? Or how will we ever make the decision about the color if we don't personally go and take a look at it? Cause we'll get another. Well, just suggesting that he consult with Creme Riddle and if they were involved, I feel for people involved. If he doesn't want Creme Riddle to be involved in this, then I mean, if he wants us, I don't know, but I think there should be more people viewing it with sort of a disinterested idea. Yeah, I think my recommendation is to have Creme Riddle be the agent that reviews it because they have a lot of experience in managing color on buildings and knowing both how to select a color but also how to review it properly. So that's my recommendation. As kind of the most straightforward professional approach and also probably when I say straightforward, like you don't have to come back to us and figure out another pathway. I think it's the most obvious path. Yeah, it's a really big building and it's really exposed. There's gonna be a lot of that color with multiple sides visible at once from a distance. It's not like a small storefront that's sandwiched between other buildings and other storefronts. There's gonna be a lot of that color. So it's really important to get it right. You can see what happens when you get it wrong from the previous people, you know. I do like the black trim. Are you gonna put any party plans or anything in that front patio that we're seeing here? It looks really arid. That actually was my comment because I know that I'm gonna try to do a quick draw on the screen. There is a big, whoop. Oh, sorry, I was trying to make it bigger. Here, I'll make it bigger, hold on a second. Sorry. Okay, we're frozen. There's a big square right now of plantar there now and you said you were gonna rework the paving, but are you gonna maintain that square that is planted at the moment? And there's also, I think, plantings along the edges of those half walls, those low walls that separate the patio areas. So that's my thought. I was thinking that maintaining those planting areas and providing some green in a way to break up all of that pavement would be a nice thing to keep rather than to pave over. Yes, and will help tone down the walls. Yeah. So you're saying planters on the half wall there? I think that it currently, Mr. Manila, I think that there already is a bit of a direct in front of in front of this wall and in front of the other. Let me erase all my. Sorry, let's see if that pops up. I wish I had a photo. I have a photo right now. I have plenty of pictures. Oh, right. Yeah, Google Earth will show you. Well, if it's up to date, if it's up to date, let's see here, give me a second. Oh, it would be up here, yeah. Yeah. Start with the aerial view, because I think it's on there. Oh, okay. Oh, sorry. Oh, so there's this this planter right here. And then just on the edges of each of the patio walls, I believe that's a planted edge. It's like a carpet. Maybe it's just grass, but and then that's a little bit of a dirt edge as well. Oh, yeah, you could put more there. Yeah, yeah, better. But definitely to do something pretty lush in that center would really help. Yeah, the center, definitely you are able to do something. The side on the half wall there, there is just a trim of grass looks like. I have to consult with a landscaper to see what is something we could put there. The idea is not to block the view to the patio, but really to enhance it. So in the corners of both ends, I could probably put some really nice plants that are flourish up on top of there, but I really wouldn't be looking to block the patio from the general view. No, but you could have low pots that are filled with colorful flowers. Like you said, that would really enhance the entrance. That too, yeah. Hopefully they will last, they will last being outside. Yep. It would be weather on things. Yeah, well, you have to water them. You might also consider, as some people I think suggested, widening that area in front of the half wall on the north side by simply removing, I say simply because I'm not a landscape architect and I don't know what might be involved in that, but presumably you might be able to remove some of those, what would appear to be like two by two pavers along that north edge and perhaps still not block the passageway into the double doors. So that's one potential option for giving a little more green space, but I also don't know that you necessarily need it. I do agree with Erica that maybe utilizing that square that's existing would be a nice way to introduce a bit more life to the corner. Yeah, we're not changing anything that's out there. Any green space that's outside, we're gonna continue to fix it and do something nice with it. Okay, so it's not in your rendering in that, but you do intend to keep it? Yes. Okay, that's good. That's nice. And as far as the Q and Rital going back to answer that, they were not involved in the render because we needed something that showed the sign on the building. The render just happened to be there and what the company in Mexico, they just mounted digitally the signs on the building. So I had that done, but I can easily just ask them to give me two or three of the max renders of colors. But I just wanna bring up that no matter what Q and Rital will do, it will be the same expectation in the same result when I present it to you. So I'll present you something with a certain shade and it's not gonna be down to perfection. Oh, I understand that. And I don't expect it to be anything different necessarily. It's more about ensuring that there are professional eyes on it, that there's someone that can check to make sure that the color meets the expectation. Yeah, so the only real way to get it done and see what the color is gonna look like, I'll paint some lines, some white lines on the walls and really see it live or take some pictures on daylight and see how they contrast. But the renders are not gonna be down to what we are looking for. We can have them overlooking, which is not a problem, but I will show up when the building is painted. Like I think someone mentioned that when you paint on some areas, it may look dark because of the shade. Sure. Like it's different up here. Yeah. And I think that the goal is to find a way to the one I say having professional eyes on it, there's an understanding from architects and interior designers of how color might look in a rendering versus when applied in the field. And so there will be that control of having the mockup and having the designer's eye to say, okay, this mockup does or does not agree with the rendering that was approved. And if it does not agree with it, then let's go back and see if we can find a color that does. And that's the process that they would be able to manage for you. And that would help to make sure that the color doesn't become something it wasn't intended to be. Of course. I can just, I'll ask them to help me on it. They couldn't be on the meeting tonight because they have prior arrangements, but I'll ask them to be part of the process. I'll come in with the rendering. So that way, even if we can communicate by email and pass it to a group of people, you can see it faster than coming down to see it first. Absolutely. I just wanted to mention that Federico is submitting article 14 application to the building commissioner and the planning director for, as a result of COVID, the planning, the town of Amherst has tried to provide relief for retail and restaurants that would normally require a special permit review and approval. And to instead go through an administrative approval through the building commissioner, they would be providing the same sorts of application submissions that would be required for a site plan review or a special permit review. And would meet all the relevant, you know, zoning bylaw requirements and whatnot. But this would just speed up the process which takes, you know, at least three, four months. So I just wanted to point that out. So, you know, in regards of the color, you know, the building commissioner would want to still see what is the final color. So I just wanted to clarify that. And I think there's consensus in this group that everybody likes the golden yellow tone that we see on this exterior. And I think the question is, how does it look in real life? Like, so we trust the render only so much. And it would be, I think, wise to see it in person before you make a commitment to the whole building to do that sample swatch that Lindsay Schnar was suggesting. So, yeah, I also like this yellow. I like it better where it's in the shade. That color with lots of gray in it. I would rather see that on the whole thing than where the light turns it very, very yellow. I prefer it more sort of mustardy or darker. We're talking yellow and we're talking gold. And it seems like what we're really looking for is gold as opposed to yellow. And so, yeah, I think I'll agree that we like the gray or darker perspective. Okay, so I know our time's getting a little tight here. Any other suggestions or thoughts? We've zoned in on the color. I don't know what it'd be fair to ask for a little more specific landscaping plan because right now, if we want something, I think it might be helpful to see exactly what the proposal would look like. But I don't know if I'm wondering if the agreement is to keep what's there and plant it, if we need to see another plan, I would hate to fold up. Yeah, well, yeah, I do too. On the other hand, there's planting and there's planting. So unless somebody gets some help and putting something in that spot that has some significance and a sort of attractive and maybe last all year round, what's there now looks pretty pathetic. So definitely we see potential. So yeah, we just encourage it, okay? And then you can always put pots of flowers around, which would be very nice. Yeah, I can do that. Even if it was seasonal summer plant things, which would add a nice pop. Okay, any other thoughts? Are we ready then to make a recommendation? I just say overall, I think it looks really nice. And so it's exciting to think about this happening and I think this rendering is a great goal for the design overall, but especially the colors and with the caveat of having that existing planter provide that extra landscaping and hope that that gets, like you said, maintained to your round in some capacity. Okay, any other thoughts on that? Erica, are you okay with it? So if I may, let me just sort of recap, let me just go through this one second, sorry. So everyone agreed that a mockup of colors should be provided on the building wall itself and that the color should be selected by the owner, but in coordination with Cune Riddle and that the selection and review of the colors of the building wall should be done in collaboration with Cune Riddle. Let's see here, could there be an opportunity, I guess I have a question, could there be an opportunity for board members to go take a peek at the sample of colors? Could board members be interested in something like that or not? Okay, all right, okay. Let's see here, maintain the planting area in the center of the pavement that we saw in the other screen from the Google map. And I know Jan had suggested having planters along, I don't know if this shows, but along the patio, I didn't know if that was, if the whole board was suggesting. There's the two walls that we were all talking about. And Lindsay's idea to take out some of the pavers and plant directly into the ground, or you could set planters on top of it, just something else besides the square. Got it. You're responsible. Yeah, just on the front patio, not the side patio. Right. Is that right, yeah. Right, I mean, it's up to them if they want to do more. Okay, and then. I should say, I don't know what it looks like these days, but for teachers used to maintain plantings all down the side, you can see that there's space for it on the outside, right, it's been a long time, it's been a long time, but there's lots of opportunities for planting. Yeah. Okay, and I think that was it. Yeah, okay. Well, I'll move that we approve the application based upon the notes that Maureen has taken as recommendations from us. All right, it's been moved a second. Okay, Erica seconded. All in, let me do a roll call. Erica, all in favor? Aye. Aye, Lindsay? Aye. Okay, Jan? Aye. Catherine, aye. Okay, so we four to zero, this is our recommendation. Okay, anything else that we want to pass along at this time before we get ready to adjourn the meeting? So when will you be opening? How long or when? When? Yeah, well, I hope to have the restaurant ready between two and three months. Okay, very good. To get it done, I think Amherst is a great area. It needs a spot with positive energy with people very careful on how you serve people, not only students, but everybody else that comes in and we are hoping to be that place because we do it on all the restaurants that we are now established and the students coming back hopefully in the next few months, hopefully everybody vaccinated. I got my vaccine yesterday and I feel very positive that I can contaminate anyone if I get it. That's great to have. And I think in a few months, all the students I wanna go back to being themselves and the town of Amherst will come back to be the town of Amherst and we hope to contribute to the economy there and to the culture. We wanna bring a nice and happy restaurant so that people can come to it. Right. You need it. Sounds great. Excited. Let's hope that it was true. I will have a quinoa riddle. I'll have Brad help me on the project. I'll have him do me two renders with two different shades of yellow and what I'll do is I'm gonna go ahead and paint six to eight feet by two or three. Yes, good. And then we'll let you know by email when it's done and after he submits the renders, you can take a drive by and take a look at it and then take a unanimous vote and let us know which one will you rather see and we'll go for that one. Great. Very good. We'll have a formal meeting the first night you open. Oh no. That'd be great. Okay. Thank you. All right. Good luck. Thank you. Appreciate it. So Maureen, do we have any public comments? We do. Hilda Greenbaum. Okay, Hilda. I thought you weren't gonna call me. I sent my comments to Chris and it was basically my experiences with the rotary at Triangle Street and the trucks trying to avoid it at all costs and go down the jug handle. That was one of my comments. And then the other thing was about signage because people who drive in this town don't understand the protocols for rotaries and I'm always getting cut off. Namely, the person in the rotary has the right away and they can't cut them off. So, I mean, things like that, there needs to be signage if you're gonna go that route. But I really worry about the trucks that wanna go north and south on 116, which is a highway north and south that they won't be able to negotiate that circle. I don't think this is off from there. And that runs into the same issue as trying to put a rotary or a roundabout in North Amherst up here. The trucks can't get around it. So, I just wanted to make those couple of points and I sent them to Chris. All right, very good. Thank you, Hilda. Thanks, Hilda. Anybody else, any other public comments? Let's see here, no. All right, okay. Any further discussion? Now that our next meeting is? We didn't get through. You didn't get stuff in, that's right. Yeah, so about we will be holding a meeting for the mixed use building located at 15 East Pleasant Street, as well as looking at the temporary staging area and permanent use located at the adjacent lot where the pub is currently located. I'll be sending out a doodle poll and the submissions likely tomorrow. And those submissions will be found on the, once the meeting is scheduled, it'll be found on the town calendar for the DRB meeting posting as well as located on the DRB webpage under board packets. Okay. And probably going forward, we're gonna get more specific about using the design review board principles and standards, which apparently are in the mail to many of you. I don't know, Jan, if you have one of these, this gold copy that you do have. If I've got it pulled up, I was ready to go through that. I mean, we can do like we have a circle commission and go through point by point, yeah. Yeah. I kept on reading the standards while you were reviewing the restaurant. And I was thinking about suggesting that you guys go through that, but I think that you covered them. Yeah, I think we covered it since this is not, this is pretty much our building. So there was a lot that didn't apply on it. Yeah, yeah, but with the new building, I think we'll have to, so. But just to point out though, so standards that you did apply for the restaurant, for example, we're related to, let's see here at landscaping, signs and architectural and site details, such as colors and stuff. So yeah, it's just, I think we did. Yep. Yeah, as a building had already been approved before, except for the color. So I think we're okay on that. So okay, any other business before we, I know we had some minutes in there, Maureen. We did, which was from the last meeting, which was last month, which would have been March. I don't know if folks got a chance to read that, read the draft. Well, actually you did, because they were based on the memos for the library, the North Amherst Library and the Bang Center project. I sent your corrections to the, do we sent, have you given us then the final version? I have. Okay. I have sent that. That's fine. So I don't know if you guys wanted to take a motion, make a motion for the minutes. I probably should find out what meeting date that was. Let's see here. I think it was March 8th. Yeah, March 8th. Which of your emails were the minutes attached to? I'm coming out, I remember seeing them. So it would be in the email that I announced that I will be posting meeting materials on the calendar. And so there would have been a link to the town cap. Oh, they were on that link. Can you share the screen? Oh, sure. Yep. Give me a minute. Haven't done our homework. No, that's okay. And of course, we could do it next time if we are running it. We need to go. Yeah, we'll do it next. Yeah, that's fine. All right. Then by that time, everybody will have a chance to review them. And you're saying during this meeting. Okay, good. I'm on favor. You guys. Hi. Okay, you're getting good at that, Jan. God, it's one of my specialties. Andy, you did. Okay, very good. Well, we'll have a new Mexican restaurant and that will be bolder.