 Okay, chair Fleming, I believe what you have all of our Our panelists so we're ready to start when you are ready Great. Thank you Hold on one moment, please and I'll bring us to order Well, I script here Hello and welcome to the February 8th meeting of the public safety subcommittee. I would like to bring this meeting to order and Ask Let's see Turn it over to the clerk for notes on Translation I need to take roll call first Okay, it has the the notes ahead of roll call. I'd like to ask the clerk to call the roll, please Councilmember Schwedhelm here vice mayor Rogers as it council member Fleming here Thank you all members let the record show members are present Okay, would you please then move on to the rink of the reconvening points. Thank you chair Interpreter services are being provided in Spanish for today's meeting For those just joining the meeting live translation in Spanish is available for members wishing to listen in Spanish Can join the Spanish channel to do so click on the interpretation icon and zoom tool Bar it looks like a globe once you join the Spanish channel. We recommend you shut off the main audio So all you only hear the Spanish translation Interpreter Pablo if you can translate that into Spanish for us, please For those who just joined the meeting Interpretation in vivo in Spanish is available and the members wishing to listen in Spanish can join the Spanish channel To do it click on the interpretation icon in the zoom tool bar Parece un globo terracco Una vez que según al canal en español le recomendamos que apague el audio principal para que solo escuche la interpretación a la español Thank you I'd like to ask the interpreter currently on the Spanish channel to commence translation of the meeting Live translation can be heard on the Spanish channel to join the Spanish channel click on the interpretation icon at the bottom Me gustaría pedirle al interpreter que se encuentra actualmente en el canal en español que comience la traducción de la reunión La interpretación en vivo se puede escuchar en el canal en español para unirse al canal en español haga click en el icono Interpretation en la barra de herramientas de zoom Thank you chair Fleming back to you for additional housekeeping items for today's meeting. Yes. Thank you One moment, please while I fold them up So as a reminder to the committee members, please keep your audio on mute unless you're speaking And staff will remain muted until needing to speak as members of the public can join the meeting You will be participating as an attendee your microphone and camera will be muted only today's panelists will be viewed during the meeting If you are calling from a telephone and choose to speak during public comment portion of today's agenda for privacy concerns The host will be renaming your viewable phone to resident in the last four digits of your phone number The city of santa rosa is committed to providing a safe inclusive Environment free from disruption and will not tolerate any hateful speech or actions And are well staffed to monitor that everyone is participating respectfully or they will be removed from this meeting If necessary, we will also immediately end the meeting um Madam clerk, could you please explain how public comments will be heard in today's meeting? Yes, thank you after each agenda item is presented the chair will ask for committee comments and then open it up for public comment The host in zoom will be lowering all hands until public comment is open for the agenda item Once the chair has called for public comment The chair will announce for the public to raise their hand if they wish to speak on a specific agenda item If you're calling in to listen to the meeting audibly You can dial star nine to raise your hand the chair will then call on the public who have raised their hands Public comment will be limited to three minutes and a timer will appear on screen for the committee and public to see Once all live comments have been heard the meeting host will play voicemail public comments If you provide a live public comment on an agenda item But also submitted an email or a recorded voice message public comment Your email or voice message public comment will not be duplicated read or played during the meeting Throughout today's agenda when the chair calls for public comment an interpreter will be prepared to assist anyone needing interpretation Those using interpreter Interpreter support will be afforded additional time for your public comment as required by the brown act We ask that those listening on the spanish channel, but wishing to make a public comment Turn off or leave the interpretation entirely at the time you hear your name called So you can join the main channel to make your public comment heard and translated into english You the icon may now look like a circle with an es in the middle and the word spanish underneath You can then rejoin the spanish channel at the conclusion of your comment to continue listening in spanish Thank you very much. Um, and now we have um announcements. Um, are there any announcements from the panelists? Seeing none. Um, I uh, su is this a um, okay time to make an announcement about uh, reordering the agenda Yes, this would be an appropriate time So it's my understanding that vice mayor rogers has a hard out at 3 p.m. Today. Um, does anybody else have a ending time? Okay, um, I have to leave around 3 30 so um given that we have limited time and The relative importance of the police auditor position. Um, if This committee deems it appropriate I would like to move that item to be the first item of business and then have take all of the other items in the order Which they are set forth in the agenda Um, what say you committee? I'm good with it. And this is probably a question for the city attorney. Is this a brand new Subcommittee meeting or continuation from the last meeting? Because if it's a continuation from the last meeting the next thing we'd be talking about is item 5.1 It is my understanding that the meeting I would have to look back at my notes But it's my understanding that that the last meeting was not formally continued to today So that it is a new meeting so But going forward anytime that we want to just continue it It would be announced at the end of the meeting as a continuance rather than a an adjournment of the meeting to start again Great. Thank you. So I'm finding a three order that she suggested Okay, I'll need a motion and a second, please I'll make a motion that first item. We re-prioritize or agendize and have a first item before discussion item 5.1 police auditor Okay, second Um, madam clerk, would you please call the roll? Yes, thank you Councilmember Schwedhelm. Hi Vice mayor rogers hi Chair Fleming hi Excellent. So now we will commence with um item 5.1 Police auditor Thank you chair Fleming. Uh, good afternoon. Good afternoon vice mayor rogers and councilmember Schwedhelm Uh, we have two items on the agenda today. The first one is police auditor and we have one shot uh one slide to share for you on that um The the police auditor Was a position that we had in place the city had in place for about four years between 2014 and 2018 The the police auditor was a position that was beneficial beneficial in helping us create and implement our professional standards team Which we've had in place since 2015 the police auditor Provides uh provided several advantages for us It included ongoing audits of our police department policies practices and records It uh, it was provided full access to body work camera footages And reports related to calls for service. So there were no restrictions As to what the police auditor could look at The police auditor uh in the past um had the ability to conduct independent investigations and um We uh, again, let me go back real quick. So this is more of a An idea or an example of what the scope was back when we had the auditor and so these are some of the things that uh that that uh Were were in place at the time Again, we had uh, they had the ability to conduct the independent investigations um We uh, we used the auditor to be able to um address allegations of employee misconduct and use of force. So For example, uh, you know any allegations that would have come in that would have come from the the community They could reach out to the police auditor and began an investigation that way Or if there was something that was seen or came through Internally the police auditor auditor was there to assist and help address those allegations The again the auditor was available to Respond to and assist with complaints from the community. So that was uh, it It worked in two ways number one The auditor provided both email and phone numbers For the for the community to respond to and then the auditor Had the ability to proactively reach out to community members and community groups to the check-in and basically Find out if there's anything of issue that that should be brought forward the The auditor was always apprised of critical incidents. So if we had a significant issue Whether it was a shooting or another You know a significant event The auditor was available for an immediate contact and let them know what was going on So they would be up to that that position would be up to speed immediately Again, they could take they could have regular meetings and Contacts with the community stakeholders And had the option of creating their own, you know meetings, whether it was one-on-one or with groups The police auditor was Or reported directly to the city manager and assisted The the chief's position and the police department would be more transparent accountable and responsible The police auditor in the past had Or did submit reports or was required through the Through the contract to submit reports to the city manager and city council on a regular basis To assist with that transparency and the Those reports help us also to continue to Improve and enhance ours our service to the community the The city currently does not have a police auditor. It's been out of contract with one for a few years now The the city decided not to renew the last contract The city is currently in the middle of community empowerment planned meetings, and we're waiting for feedback from the community So we are currently without an auditor. We we are looking to We're looking for more information on moving forward and We wanted to give you a quick update on where we were Both myself and captain eric litchfield who has been in charge of our Professional standards team over the last several years Are available for any questions that you might have And that is the end of our presentation Thank you chief navarro I'll open this up to The panel Who would like to go first? for questions Do we have any questions? Um, okay. I have some questions. Um, one is um, Can you give some background on why This position was not refilled after it was terminated? uh, the uh, the kind the contract expired, um, and this was a few years ago and the city council at the time Decided not to renew the renew the contract Was that through a formal action or was it just as um, it was just allowed to Go by the wayside the yes, so the um, the the auditor the contract expired and uh, and it was not renewed and so um and we Have been in the process again. There was a um At the time we were getting ready for uh, the retirement of the chief and uh, and then my position coming up And there were some changes and since then we've had several emergencies and We've been there's been some capacity issues from the city But we are currently again, um, you know, we we have uh We're currently in the process of looking to see what the direction is from this particular From from from this particular subcommittee Moving forward Okay. Um, thank you. Uh vice mayor rodgers. I see that your hand is up Hi, thank you. So chief it continues to be a line item in the budget where monies are allocated for that position Uh, yes, so the money is it's funded through the police department, but it reports directly to the city manager's office. Um, and we we use um We don't you we do not we have not used the general fund to pay for this. We've been paying for it through. Um I believe our um Some crime mitigation money that we had received in the past Okay, thank you. Um Any other further questions panel? Oh, kidoki Um, well, I'd like to open this up for public comment. Um, and I see a couple of hands raised I'll call them in the order in which they appear to me Um, our first caller today is samra Sam are you there? Hey, I'm here. Hi Please go ahead Okay, so um I went to further elaborate on like what victoria flumming said she asked why you guys didn't renew the independent auditor position It's been three years after all three years Where you fully knew that there was bias in the reports and that they would continue to go unchecked But none of you did anything and especially you in a borrow if you knew about this and you didn't push for it Then how is that just or how's that? Are I guess having the mentality of seeking justice? It doesn't exactly You didn't actually answer the question. You just said it didn't happen But you didn't give a reason as to why this position it expired and you guys didn't renew the contract Why didn't you renew the contract? Was there a specific reason and why didn't you seek for another one ASAP? It's been three years What what what form of like how is this oddity? How is this like caring about the community and on that note If the if the police auditor now that you get is Sponsored or like their their salary comes out of the police budget Then that creates incentive to keep the police budget as it is or it keeps incentive to like have them tied to the police What doesn't necessarily seem fair because if they're supposed to audit the police, but their salary comes from the police It's it's it's a it's a conflict of interests. So there should that should definitely change. Um Yeah, so, um, my main problem comes from the I guess the lack of transparency for you Uh, not saying that you know, like not giving us a reason as to why you got rid of the auditor Not giving not bringing forth another auditor, even though it's been three years And uh, I believe that this auditor if it's an individual they're still subject to their own bias So I believe that it'd be very important for you guys to have a community like board Uh checking in on them or working in like conjunction with them because if they are You know subject to their own bias. It's still just one person. Um It'd be important. It'd be genuinely important The police force is made up of more than one person But the auditor would just be an individual it would be it'd be very helpful if there was like I don't know if you have it in the budget to like have like maybe a group of auditors or have especially have like a community board just Checking in on the order or being able to like, you know have connections if there's a problem like if there is a Uh, say that like, you know, the auditor needs to check in with individuals They can potentially you know provide resources or you know provide like, you know, helpful information discussion and Basically keep the auditor from you know falling into their own bias that would be very very helpful And it's the least you can do after keeping us, you know without an auditor for three years I'm I I can't even understand why you did that Um Almost seems like you want to protect the police um, so I You know get rid of the rest of my time Thank you Evan followed by Susan I believe I'm ready if you can hear me. Yep go for it. All right. Uh, thank you for the time. Um Yeah, I think it's Should have to go without saying but I guess not it probably should be said a lot I guess the opposite the the length of time the lapse in this role Um exposes a few things Instead of getting from like some of like other maybe insinuated attacks on Departments, I think at the very least it's shown That administratively The process in which the hiring is taking place for the auditor Is not something that should fall under the purview of the police department and obviously additionally Um, there's really no credibility To an auditing program that would have this sort of connection to the police department at all Obviously, there needs to be some sort of working relationship And professional rapport there But that sort of defeats the purpose of an auditor. So what I'm really like to reemphasize the same points that were made before me along those lines, um but then also Request that the public safety committee that this committee Make an actual formal recommendation to the whole council To adopt a civilian oversight committee that does work in conjunction With the auditor, but you know, you've just seen a local mandate About a two-thirds vote for measure p passing on the county level And the time in the window for this, I don't understand why it's taking so long and we don't need an act Of local votes You already know what the landscape is. So it's in addition to actually bringing on this auditor Um Much sooner than this whole thing is you know, it should have already happened. So it needs to happen Obviously got to get the right hire So you don't you don't necessarily have to rush the candidacy, but obviously we need one. But what we really need is a much larger Um effort something that it does work More in the veins of something like ilero before the city um, yeah, so I also hope that The timing of this Was never intentional Uh, there's sort of been like this kind of punting and keep kicking it down kicking it down kicking it down Regarding the human rights commission, uh, in their report, which obviously was directly tied. I know that there's an independent investigation going on With an after action report related to that But I mean, I don't know how many different signs you need to see from both what's actually happening reality As well as community sentiment But this auditor needs to happen rapidly and you actually need to go much further in this committee I really hope you make the formal recommendation for an actual civilian oversight committee That is empowered with authority and I'll yield the rest of my time. Thank you Thank you, uh, susan followed by lee Susan lamont 30 year resident of santa rosa and long time law enforcement accountability activist More than two years ago the members of the santa rosa city council fired police auditor bob aronson Technically it didn't renew his contract Because he dared to lay bare the lack of a homeless policy in the city and its detrimental effects on the morale of local police officers Aronson made the city council a bit too uncomfortable In the intervening years despite the agitation here and around the country for local community oversight of law enforcement santa rosa has delayed committing itself to such oversight The auditor model is a flawed model Aronson was allowed to but not required to reach out to the community But he did so because he personally believed in it. We activists knew what was happening because bob met with us He predicted that he would lose his job over the no homeless policy police morale issue Santa rosa needs community oversight of its police force and it doesn't have to reinvent the wheel The national association of civilian oversight of law enforcement nacole lays it all out They explain exactly what policies and principles are needed for effective oversight Most important is extensive involvement by the community including a community board And to make that a reality whoever runs the agency must be committed to working with the community even when it is uncomfortable It is time for this city to commit to this and to give it more than lip service The resources and principles are out there. The only thing we need now is the political will And i'll note that just the other day police officer police chief navarro said exactly what aronson said That problem still festers homelessness. Thank you Thank you lee followed by cecilia Hi, can you hear me? We can thank you Hi, thank you for um Thank you for listening today Hearing that our city representatives have not chosen To have an independent auditor for the last three years and considering the human rights violations reported this summer is very concerning The overwhelming support of measure p and the change that we are seeing all over the country should indicate to you Our current representatives that the time is now for complete independent oversight I don't have much to add besides what other people have spoken about Um One of the things I had just heard from the previous speaker was there's no need to reinvent the wheel And we know that is true. We see it all over the country. Um these independent oversight and transparency is being demanded um by the constituents of local Representatives and that's happening here now and we are asking you Once again to consider the human rights violations report the the the transparency requested by people from all over the country and the overwhelming support of measure p right here at home and Again, the time is now. Thank you so much and I yield my time Thank you. Cecilia followed by Allegra Hi, my name is Cecilia. I've been a resident of Sonoma county for over 20 years Um, I wanted to voice my strong support for an oversight committee and auditor um anything to displace the Incredible imbalance of power that we have going on across the nation across the world and especially here in santa rosa Being involved in the activist movement over the past year has shown me A significant amount of what is actually going on in my home county and as a white person I'm ashamed to say that I did not know much of it But as we've seen and as you have heard from many people calling in Meeting after meeting taking time out of our days to try to make our voices heard We are asking you to please Change things Change them where we've asked over and over again. We will continue to ask We are passionate and strongly fiercely Sure that the power imbalance is not correct. It is not okay for police for cops for law enforcement officials To continuously use the power given to them by the government and by our society in our system To continue to harm people There's so much harm that's happened. There's so many lives that has been lost I think the only reason why this isn't happening faster Is because maybe none of you have experienced the loss of somebody or the hardship that happens when you know Someone who's been harmed by the police and by the system Please listen to the voices that are calling in today that have called in For many many months now as we ask you to take the power away from the police Take some of this power away because they should not be able to get away with everything that they're able to do Please get an auditor in here. This is negligence. It's harming the people of santa rosa. Please hear me again This is negligence. It is harming the people of santa rosa Please keep us safe and please consider getting an oversight committee listening reading the human rights report You have to get that out there. There's some really important information in there Please listen to the people. Thank you so much today. I yield my time Thank you. Allegra followed by lives Hi, good afternoon. Um, I just want to echo. Um, basically what others have already said but add my voice um I question why this position was vacant for so long. Um, I also I think what I heard Navarro say was that there's the funding has been in the budget So I wonder about where that money has been going during this gap Um, I also again you guys um have heard other people say it But I I would hope to see anyone in this position and and and even before you're able to hire this position a review A public review of the human rights commission report Um, we can see the need for this police auditor position because there are these homeless sweeps going on against CDC recommendations Violence taken against protesters including minors over the summer And other things that we likely don't even really know about because they aren't coming to light Um, and that's really scary to me like what aren't what don't we know about if these are the things that we have seen um I would like to see this position filled as soon as possible I would like to see them be fully independent and not linked to the police department But having the ability to subpoena their records and have funding committed to enable them to do the work that they need to do including any um Any positions that are needed for support? I would like to see this funding taken directly from the police budget and move to support these efforts So again, there's not that conflict of interest that link um And I would just I also wonder if there might be a way for a um Including a community advisory board And to see if these teams can work with the new cahoots team So that that oversight committee can make sure that the cahoots team needs are supported And if they can identify additional tasks that have been done, um By the police for the cahoots team to do instead as a um more social model a less punitive model And so that's that's kind of what I have to say. Thank you. Have a great day Thank you. That's followed by melissa Can you hear me? Yes Cool, uh, thanks for having this meeting today. I'm glad that we're talking about this auditor position But I do take issue with the fact that there's only one person that supposed to have this position Uh with the amount of bias that one person can have I think it's more advantageous and much more honest to have a community formed uh board of auditors to be completely honest And if you want to avoid that conflict of interest the person If there's only going to be one person should not be really involved with the police But that money should come from elsewhere to avoid that conflict of interest The fact that you haven't had an auditor at all over three years looks really bad To the community like it looks bad for you. It looks bad to us Not having that position filled means we can't trust We really can't trust you to have our best interest in mind If you want to repair your relationship with the public To be transparent about what that's about what's going on and actually listen to what we're saying Same with the other people that were talking for me. They all have amazing Amazing points that you should be listening to and taking very seriously And again, we don't have to reinvent the wheel like a previous speaker said These structures exist. We just have to commit to them If we want to see something better, we have to commit to these alternatives new like anti-racist anti-white supremacist Processes you know like we can't just keep using the same forces over and over and over to accept and to expect something different. It's just not going to happen So again, if you're going to have an auditor make sure it's a group of people And make sure it's community formed and community led Because frankly, I don't trust that I don't trust the city council except for Natalie Rogers I don't trust the rest of y'all to have somebody that's on there to That's not good. I don't trust all I have some on there. It's not going to be related to the cops because They've already gotten away with a bunch of other stuff the past three years and even more when we had one before so Do this right please and Before you do any of that Make time to read the human rights report as soon as possible I'm talking next week or even earlier if you can Because frankly that's been pushed off for way too long and people have been talking about it for months And at this point it really seems like you're just trying not to talk about it And that's a huge issue so Listen to what other people are saying and yield the rest of my time Thank you Kelsey followed by jerry Uh barely Oh, hi. Sorry my microphone's not so great. How about now? Uh still pretty muffled. Can you get a little closer? With the computer, um, I just want to amplify what other people have been saying Um, that the vacant auditor position is really alarming and not only is it bad, but it also looks really bad um In other words to have the community involved in trying to track down What is happening with what it's a kind of oversight we already have Uh, what is happening with it? Who is in control of it and where have our elected officials been? During this process when oversight was left empty that what little we have um basically we have the uh Fox guarding the henhouse in that situation and especially as others have mentioned the overwhelming support for measure he shows the direction in terms of the community support for effective and community based oversight and putting more resources into that and having more transparency and I think a lot of folks who aren't very involved Really have no idea about this other position and have limited understanding of the difference between the county and the city situation. Um I am assuming a lot of folks think that measure p has covered all of it and it really hasn't so need some clarity need more um People in the actual positions and you know, we can't figure out um What to do differently in the future if we can't even understand clearly what has already been happening Um, so yeah, we're watching to see those changes be made Especially when there's been so much conversation around trust While this position has been purposefully left vacant and I yield the rest of my time. Thanks Thank you. Jerry followed by michael Hello, can you hear me? Yes, okay. My name is Jerry three. I'm an attorney and consultant on police accountability and civilian oversight issues here in the county I was the founding director of Ilaros the civilian oversight office was a sheriff's office and was involved in the passage of measure p this last November And i'm the current chair of the commission on human rights for the county There's no question In my mind that senator rose should hire a new police officer and once again engage with civilian oversight of its police department after a pause of several years In my opinion, it's really confusing and Hard to understand that the city has waited this long to replace its police auditor As that position would have played a key role in recent controversies like the black lives matter protest policing and the thin blue line flag Controversy that's currently in front of you today um As well as the question on many people's minds after the capital insurrection Which is are any members of our local police departments associated with white supremacists or extremist groups So given the clear public sentiment for effective civilian oversight of your police department This is really an opportune moment to ensure you get it right Yes, please hire a new police auditor But also make sure that the auditor model actually delivers on increased accountability and transparency And that its primary purpose is to serve the community The last auditor model was set up as an internal department coaching function Where the auditor gave feedback directly to officers in particular incidents, but never reported out to the public what he found about those incidents The auditor should be independent of the police department and the chief report directly to the council publish public reports on findings about individual investigations And on the general internal affairs system of the department And be able to audit systemic issues within the department wherever they see it And they should also have unfettered direct access to police staff and records More important from my perspective an auditor is not enough Santa Rosa needs to add a community advisory committee to complement the work of the police auditor A group of community members representative of the true diversity of the city But predominantly BIPOC community members is essential to facilitate engagement between the community and the police department Such a body can bring the voice of the community into the process by which the council And SRPD decides when and how to police their communities Community involvement in these decisions is a key part of and provides legitimacy to community policing The best way to achieve that community involvement is by formalizing it with a community review panel of some kind Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you Thank you Michael followed by Noah Hi, can you hear me? Yes So I am out speaking in Favor of filling this position, but really strongly asking for stronger community oversight of the Santa Rosa police department Not only because of the incidents we've seen With officer abuse, especially of protesters this summer But of the numerous Raids of homeless encampments that are going to be carried out and there's one that I understand is scheduled for tomorrow at industrial It's so important that we have community oversight Of the police so that we have a say in what's happening As well as we actually know what's happening It's not enough to have someone inside the police department checking basically, you know Trying to police when with inside the department. Um, that doesn't add to community trust It's not a legitimate model for oversight And It's something that will just make us, you know, we're gonna have to keep coming back to this if we don't get it Right. We're just going to keep pushing on. Hey, well. Yeah, you have this auditor Do we know anything about what's going on? We have very limited information and We would rather have an actual voice in the process. So I'm in favor of community review boards or an advisory council Um, not keeping information confidential that points to that that could actually Endanger the community about who is actually serving in our law enforcement And keeping all the funding independent from the police department I am, you know, really disappointed about how the last auditor was fired Um, basically for for questioning the homeless policies in the city based on Uh, the accounts of officer morale Um, you know, this isn't just a problem with SRPD. It's a problem with the way the city treats homeless people And everyone needs to be accountable for that. But we need an auditor who Is willing to speak to those issues as well And I'm going to yield the rest of my time, but I strongly encourage An even stronger auditing position an oversight position of the SRPD Thank you Noah followed by melissa Can you hear me? Yes A professional auditor must be independent and must prioritize prioritize the communities being actively brutalized Being on the same payroll as the brutalizers is an inherent conflict of interest as was stated before And three years is an egregious time to keep such a position vacant An independent auditing board made up from people who reflect the marginalized communities in this city Would tell you that the police have repeatedly violated the venucian junction and evicted unsheltered people against public health orders An independent auditing board would prioritize the human rights report and hold police accountable for the attacks and arrests of protesters supporting black lives While giving a little more than a slap on the wrist to the multiple drivers who threatened and accelerated vehicles into crowds Including miners And this auditing board would have actual power beyond internal arbitration and unenforced recommendations It is clear that the police don't keep us safe. They fly racist racist flags and prioritize property over people The police fired the last person for bruising their morale You carry guns Yet when you were when there are paid millions when unsheltered people need housing and rosalind has to fight to get support for a library Oversight is the bare minimum It is step one in a trajectory that leads to disarm defund dismantle and redistribute those resources Into black and indigenous people of color communities who are subject to the worst of disinvestment and police violence The experiences held by many over this past summer are clear The video evidence is clear people's injuries where they had to raise money on go fund me campaigns for were clear The lack of available shelter is clear and yet where did these millions of dollars go? especially to an unaccountable agency I feel like the rest of it speaks for itself. I yield the rest of my time Thank you, melissa. Um, did you already speak or Um, did you get moved to the bottom of the list? I got moved to the bottom. Okay. Go ahead then, please Hi, my name is melissa. I'm a lifelong resident of Santa Rosa. I'm an educator and community organizer um Yeah, I definitely share sentiments with everyone who's spoken before I think That since building trust between the community and the police department is a priority for our city right now I think the very first and most important step is filling this auditor position um, and also having making sure that that there is full separation between the auditor and the police department So there's no conflict of interest and also having some kind of community board Informing that position because I think there needs to be a really strong link Between our community and this auditor position. So they feel like they have some kind of A power balance between The community and our law enforcement and that there's accountability because that's really what has been lacking is how to How is there accountability for actions that are taking, you know The last couple speakers spoke about The treatment of our houseless neighbors and how they just keep getting shuffled And you know their possessions thrown away and their vehicles impounded and it's just It's not how we should be treating our citizens Especially our citizens that need the most help So I absolutely support Filling the auditor position making sure it's a strong Independent position and that there is community input And i'm also curious to where the money has gone Since this position hasn't been funded for three years and there's been money put aside. So hopefully it's still there. Um Yeah, so that's pretty much all just to support what other people have said and I uh yield the rest of my time Thank you very much. Um, that now concludes our live public comment. We will now move on to voicemail public comment Pulling that up just one moment, please. Thank you. This is related to item 5.1 My name is terry and I believe there needs to be an independent auditor in place for the police department It provides an unbiased view of the actions and work the police department does within our community An independent auditor will not be subjected to the politics of city council or the manipulation of the city manager The auditor needs to be untethered third party so that the information obtained is transparent. Thank you Thank you. Um saying no additional public comment that now concludes the public comment portion of this item I bring it back to the subcommittee For your uh questions first and then we'll move into conversation Any additional questions from You guys all right then, um I have a question for the city attorney Um today if we so choose, um, madam city attorney, can we discuss how the auditor role might work for the citizen oversight work? Yes, you can uh discuss that in general. Um, wouldn't get too far into the details of what of how assistant oversight committee or commission might operate That would have to be agendized as an agenda item But in terms of talking about um on the on the higher level of what you're looking for If you are interested in continuing the auditor position what you're looking for in that And then just generally how it might collaborate or coordinate with the citizen oversight. That would be fine Thank you. And I have one more question which is um probably for the chief or One of your deputies which would be um What types of models have proven most effective in other? jurisdictions And what if anything, you know Would you do differently then I know you weren't the chief when um, mr. Aronson was our auditor But what would you do differently? Um given um what you know now So, uh captain Eric glitchfield has been in charge of our uh professional standards team, uh for the last Uh three years. Uh, he was also a lieutenant. Um overseeing that prior to being a captain I'll have him Provide some of the answers to those uh different models. Thank you. Yeah, so in regards to which model is most effective The model that's most effective is the one you build around the needs of your Government entity your department in your community So there's really not um There's not anything that's going to tell you model x is the most effective model and will work in your community There are communities that have had really good success with their models. There's a really good one in denver And a lot of them Are auditor based models. So like iolero like the model we have Uh, those are called um Investigative and quality assurance models is the term you might hear those under And those models generally involve An independent auditor or auditor group Who oversees? Who oversees everything in general And then one weakness of that model is the fact that it's one person you heard that pointed out and So much like iolero sometimes you'll see a community review panel connected to that model to represent the wider community and to give input On auditor reports and policies and procedures from a community perspective In my opinion with the research i've done those are very effective models for most communities because It leaves an auditor Who's you know specifically auditing your use of force incidents your personnel investigations They have the ability to work with the professional standards team Which i'm going to call it because that's what we call it in santa rosa You might hear it referred to as an ia or an internal affairs team most agencies now have switched to professional standards Just because it's more encompassing of a larger mission, but anyways They will work closely with that team To monitor these complaints and monitor these investigations from start to finish And the auditor we had was very effective in that role They will help the team learn They will make sure that the investigations are complete and encompass everything that's required They generally and our auditor as well as iolero Had the power to take over an investigation If need be if they felt that the department was not responsive and was not producing a proper product That never happened here. We worked very closely with that person So the auditor has to work closely with the police department As far as where you put the budget money, that's a council decision. That's a city finance decision It can be where you want it to be I did not ever hear our auditor say that where he you know, which pot he got paid from Changed his opinion on anything he had very strong opinions and was happy to share them good or bad Which is what a good auditor does So that it is a very strong model the kind of the review and appellate model is generally a panel of civilians selected by a political body counselor board of supervisors In my opinion, it's not a very strong model because it has really no power. It looks at investigations at the end It's not involved up front. It doesn't have investigative authority investigative power It doesn't get involved early It doesn't look at policies and procedures or department performance as a whole because in order To identify a systemic problem Which is a good thing about an auditor model You have to be fully involved with all the complaints all the use of force And all the investigations so you can identify a systemic problem. It's part of their job to do that Which is where the assurance portion of the assurance model comes in It's a quality assurance and a consistency job that they have to do You don't get that in in the review and appellate model And the other model Is the evaluate and performance based model? That's what san francisco has and what that is It is a entirely separate investigative body That basically Conducts all the almost all the investigations removes the department in large part from that process And while it it seems to be a very independent model, which it is What it tends to do is remove the department from personal responsibility Because the chief is no longer making decisions. There's no longer an investigative component in the department So what it tends to do is allow a police department to say Not my problem. We have a body for that I think that's a very poor model. You have to in my opinion Have the police department invested and responsible and accountable For holding their officers accountable that model It takes that away. It's also a very expensive model and Because you have to create a whole new bureaucracy for that So a good strong model Has a good strong auditor There's nothing wrong or resisted to us about community input into it Much like iolero has It's a good model. It really is and From what i've seen and and the research i've done you can read dr. Sam Walker He's at University of Nebraska. He does a lot of research into that. I have some resources I'd be happy to share with any council member who would like to see a wide variety of research done On these models and how they work But I would say having worked closely with the auditor for many years He he was largely independent He had to work with the police department. He had to have relationships here Additionally that auditor had access to everything. He reviewed every piece of body one camera footage He had his own account into our system. He had access to all the police reports He did coach Individual sergeants and individual supervisors. That's part of an auditor role Is to coach people That he sees on how to do better We used him extensively before interviews to review interview questions To give input on Are we going down the right road? Do we have everything covered here? So he was he was very very involved in the process I called him at home many times as you know, he was not a full-time auditor in the sense that he was there 40 hours a week He visited the police department on a set schedule However, he was available anytime and I definitely used him as a resource several times To ask him questions to to inform him about An incident or something that has come up And Additionally, I'd just like to point out, you know The auditor has to work within the confines of confidentiality law. So one strong Auditor trait that you want is someone who fully understands that Because there's actually quite a bit that can be said and and put into transparency and made public But that just has to be done a certain way. So an experienced auditor who's been doing this for a long time Is is very important Someone who really understands all these facets because it is personnel is extremely complicated Across the board for everyone no matter what profession you're in. There's many hr and confidentiality and personality rules It's especially complicated complicated in police work So I hope I've kind of answered your question And and I'd also say the three models I gave you are the most common I can sit here all day and give you a dozen others But I I know we have a hard time and I'm sure you don't want to hear right here that I do appreciate your comprehensive question But what I was wondering Additionally is like what you you touched on this that the last auditor was full time Clearly there are things that are beyond, you know, they're we're going to pick an auditor The auditor will you know have their own personal peccadillos and be you know great in some areas and have areas to work on Like how we all do but what is within Our control in terms of the conditions that you had set forth different from what we did before Or the previous council did before that you would like to see Set forth so that this auditor can be better set up for even more success In my opinion, and I think some former council members this was also an issue for them was The auditor His reporting out his public reporting his reporting to council Was not sufficient. It was not in depth enough detailed enough timely enough It was an annual report And so the community by and large and even the council really Didn't get to see how involved he was and how much he was doing How many investigations and the outcomes of those investigations for accountability I I could tell you we do hold people accountable. We hold people accountable often. We do we do investigations and I felt and I think it was kind of a wider feeling That that didn't come out to the community as the information piece to let the community and the council know Everything that was being done in accountability and investigations under use of force personnel and other areas So in addition all the things I mentioned where they need to be strong I think we need more reporting out I don't think an annual report Is really sufficient. I think it could go to quarterly or minimally by annual So that the community can hear what that we're doing the work we're putting in and the work the auditor's putting in and How the auditor is helping how they're making recommendations You can read there's some really good auditor groups out there right now They publish their reports on their websites and you can see The lengths they go through to point out the work that's being done the recommendations they've made How the department's doing That quality assurance are there systemic issues? Did we identify and address them? I feel a lot of that was missing and if if I had any input for a more successful model It would be better more in depth reporting out Okay. Thank you. Um, and last question. Um, hopefully I'll we can get this quick so we can get on to the the other panelists, but um, my last question is um Do um, do we have any confidentiality rules in place locally? I understand their state and federal rules that protect officers um from a lot of um, you know things in terms of Or modify how things can and cannot be reported out Is there anything that we do as a jurisdiction either? through ordinance or through um bargaining that would impede our ability to shed daylight on what what goes on? it through an auditor's report No, our mo you the police there's two mo use that cover police and neither one of those has any specific restrictions or additional restrictions and I know there are mo use like that out there much like you I've heard of those and seen some of them and some of them are pretty incredible. Um But at any rate, no we follow pro bar and the state confidentiality laws and under You know the pra laws and such so po bar pra and regular state confidentiality and hr investigations And I am not aware of any ordinance at all that um provides any extra or additional protection Thank you very much. That's the extent of my questions So now open it up for comments. Who wants to go first? councilmember schwedhelm Thanks, uh Eric, could you just let everyone know what po bar is before I go into my comments? I know what it is, but So po bar is the police officer bill of rights And just commonly referred to as po bar because police Love acronyms and will give one to anything All that is it's a it's a set of rules that we have to use to engage personnel investigations and it covers What is confidential and what is not? It covers how and when we can interview officers It really what it does is just lays out the basic rules. It doesn't impede us From conducting an investigation or completing one or completing one in a timely fashion It just basically sets the ground rules. And that's california state law, correct? Yes. Yeah. Thank you Uh, so my comments on this is yeah, let's let's get her moving. Um looking at the Back in december council talked with the seed collaborative and one of their deliverables is the equitable placing plan Because if we want to go a different route with oversight, I think that's a discussion for the entire council that maybe we May need to have on the 18th and 19th when we're all together So I think we need to get the police auditor on board here That person will be working with the seed collaborative. Uh, and we can start moving forward So as quickly as we can do that I'm also and I think this is the case anyway That there would be a representative from the city council on that selection process And I think that does give a voice from the council who can then he or she can update us Where appropriate? Um, and again for the biased questions that came up. That's where I really think the seed collaborative We're gonna be learning this as an organization together. Um, and the timing of this is actually quite beneficial. Thanks Thank you Uh, miss rogers. Do you have any comments? Um, I am definitely in support of getting that position filled When I brought it up previously, I was told that we were waiting for seed to complete its work and I am not in support of Waiting for seed collaborative to complete their their work with us in order to To fill that position. So I just would like to make that know Thank you So I too am in support of us moving forward with this quickly One of the things that I would like to talk about is some of the conditions that we do move forward with it I would like for this to be um as apolitical and independent as possible and to that end What I'd like to see is something like a term Contract that you know something like a five-year or a 10-year term on a contract I understand, you know, we may not be able to retain someone for that long but something wherein an auditor could produce work that was very disfavorable to the council or the or the police department and Not lose their position over it. Obviously their contract would have You know off ramps for you know misconduct or whatever the case might be, you know, they It's not like they'd be getting diplomatic plates or something but But that we would You know make this something that goes beyond one in or you know one council in particular and something that Would be more durable and resilient and add more protections for the opinions of that person I'd also like to see it be a full-time position and And evaluate the resources needed to retain that person So those are a couple of things that I saw as I wasn't on the council. So it's obviously not really fair to Monday morning quarterback what went on then but Those were a couple of the things that I thought might be useful to us moving forward The other thing too is I would like to recommend that this body Recommends the charter review committee when it comes through that We put it into the charter as a term length again to reduce the Political nature of it and make it a more of an institution that that has to be filled rather than one that Can be filled or or not filled as the case has been lately Um So with that any further comments or thoughts from the panel um, I would also like to see that the the community the council and PD Have a chance to I guess audit the auditor But just to say what their experiences are thus far Uh with the auditor Um, even if it is a term contract, I find sometimes when we have long-term contracts We're not getting what we want from a position But it continues to roll because that is the status quo So whatever we can put in place to get input From the community and everyone else as we as we go along Periodically Thank you And if I could just add too because something that's missing here and it seems like The former auditor is no longer employed by the city because of what he was said And for me it was a deliverable and the only person who could clarify the expectations is the person he reported to Who happens to be the city manager who's not here? So if we want to have that discussion about timing and expectations I would love to see what was a former what did the former contract look like and then we could provide feedback on the totality of the contract versus just some single points Thank you. Yeah, clearly. We don't have all of the information about, you know, the specific conditions My thoughts on having it be a term Sort of came out not just about a reaction or response to that but thinking about what we do At the judicial level in order to give our justices Some amount of leeway to exercise their professional opinions and so My mind a term wouldn't mean that they weren't or without oversight or Not that they wouldn't answer to the community and not that their contract couldn't be terminated But that there would be very specific cause and if a cause was that they didn't deliver on their contract then That that would be reason to terminate them. Just like you can, you know, get a judge out For, you know, in many cases for for misconduct. It's not as Um, it's not as though I'm saying we should have like a free Free lunch ticket to whoever gets this thing. It should be highly watched and and so forth. I just don't want it being subject to political whim because For example, you know, we could get a whole bunch of people on the council who have Much more conservative or much more liberal views than that person does and it could Turn out that that person loses their job over What might have otherwise been fair or reasonable assessments of our department in our city So that's one of that Chair just to clarify I just meant this would be something that was in place that would be ongoing not to say that they're doing anything wrong But maybe to give positive feedback That the community is experiencing but just having the chance that is already scheduled for the community and other people to give uh feedback Of what they what they think the auditor is doing you're not doing Okay, so at this time, um Mr. Litchfield and chief navarro Do you have any specific questions for us in terms of direction that you need to move forward? Uh, no not at this time. We will work with the city manager give him all of the I we've written down all of the feedback and again this This position does report to the city manager and is um out of the city manager's office So all the decisions come out of that but we will work with him to frame up The rfp and um give him that information And once the thank you once the rfp has been Created will that item come to council for review So on behalf of the city manager, uh council member of fleming City manager is prepared to release a solicitation within the next 30 days I will get reviewed by a council member and that council member is per standard policy So which whichever council member's name comes up during the time during the specific month And then the uh council will be responsible for awarding the the final contract Once that particular individual has been selected Okay, would it be possible for the rfp um to at least um be presented not in um For a vote, but just be presented to the council as a report out Or um an agenda or some sort of copy of it so that we can review it So you'd like to review the solicitation before it goes out on the street? um I'm I'm open to um hearing from other people I don't want to gum up the works too much and I get that what I'm asking for could delay this But I also want us to be able to have eyes on it. So um does anybody have an opinion on on this besides me Just speak up I I don't want to necessarily see it. I would just say that I would like it to be somewhat flexible because we will be receiving additional direction from seed collaborative So that should be known within this Solicitation that we are going to you know Some things could be changing but that would be the only thing that I would think would be a problem Okay, thank you And for me the only thing goes back to the expectations. So I'd invite, you know, and I would hope all council members Would share information with the city manager about the expectations of this position I know I think the second slide listed the deliverables That's where I think we give that input and then that gets incorporated in the rfp I don't necessarily need to see the final review of the rfp I've I've already clarified my expectations with the city manager Okay, so then we will proceed as planned with that um And I have been taking notes council member Fleming on the comments that you that each of the council members been taking Been making here. Um, also I would just suggest That the city manager will likely be having one-on-one conversations with each of the council members in order to try to solicit the type of feedback that You would each like to have incorporated into the into the final solicitation. So, um, you know, I don't I I'm hoping that we'll be able to put together a document that meets the tenor and the needs As you have reflected at this point Thank you very much. Mr. Nutt. I appreciate it With that we conclude item 5.1. Let me pull up the agenda here and backtrack to find out Where we were before I decided with my subcommittee to Make everything confusing. All right. We are on the item 3 public comment On non-agendized items This is a time when any person may address matters Not listed on the agenda But which are within the subject matter of this jurisdiction The public may comment on agenda items when the item is called each speaker is allowed three minutes And We will begin with um Melissa Melissa, are you able to hear me? Hi, I'm sorry. I meant to comment on 5.2 Ah, we will be taking up 5.2. Um after we uh Do um item 4 This item 4. Thank you. Um Seeing no additional um comments Matt. Oh, there we go. Uh, samra followed by brie ann Oh, can you hear me? I can yes So I kind of further want to uh Push the necessity of having a community group attached to the independent auditor Like I I heard you like saying like, oh, we don't want to keep it political and like, you know, like Hey, we don't want to influence by somebody that may be more liberal or like, you know Look more conservative But like in all actuality like you still have to admit That they're still going to be subject to their own bias and like if it's another white man then like come on You're still going to have those like, you know, uh personal biases that just like come with growing up and a Like a community group can help provide another perspective to this person that is necessary That's like gen like genuinely necessary Like it is very important for people to have like, you know Other other voices like, you know, other like, you know other influences that just that aren't only white people And also by the way that like what his name eric was talking about it He seems like he kind of got a little chummy with the auditor or at least at least he was one of the persons that the auditor Communicated with a lot. So that that's still like that's still grounds for bias like Like if you perceive somebody in a good or like, you know Good light to which he might have perceived eric and that's still going to cause some bias And if you don't have any group of like brown people that you can perceive in a good light Then how are you going to like how are you going to be able to like remain unbiased? How are you going to be able to like get like a diverse like array of expite like understand a diverse array of people And like a diverse array of experiences It's it's not fair and like if somebody from that community like, you know are like black and brown black and brown community like experience something that's bad Uh, they can potentially communicate that with the auditor and on that note Eric you were talking about like how Your auditor preferred like the auditor performed very well and how they kind of like, you know called you out when necessary But like you're still kind of relying on like independent like goodness of this auditor like hey This one did great therefore The other ones don't need to be overseeing or anything But that's still a line that it's subjective like how how much a person's going to like bring to the table or how much a person's going to pursue It's still subjective Yeah, you don't really you don't necessarily know if this person's going to like push to like Hey, I'm going to like get every single aspect of this or they might omit certain things But if they have no one really watching them as they work, they're just one guy It's not like anybody's forcing them to do this It's not like anybody else is going to know What's happening to the depths that they do so it's not like they have to do any of it Like honestly the only thing the only information that you get is from the auditor So you don't know if they've omitted something or didn't so that just presents more and more bias and like on like in on that note Like we cannot wait on we we cannot wait on this like you need more people like You need more people like, you know, at least like, you know diverse like a diverse array of voices like Like like around this like auditor like helping like helping them understand these like, you know Views and like opinions and on that note, like I'm still Still like waiting for like, you know, maybe tom or the varro to say hey, why hasn't this position been filled? You know like at least like an apology like come on guys. It's been three years and you knew this Three years and you knew we didn't have an auditor which is and like for For the for the city council and like the police claiming that you're serving the communities And like, you know that you're not self-serving and then you turn around and do this Because you knew well and good. We didn't have an auditor and you don't even have the gall to apologize is just cruel Like the cruel and like the purest sense of the word and now you're here and now you're doing this At least at the very least you could apologize or at the very least like Prove that you're worthy of like, you know staying here and actually like being here and staying on these put like staying on this committee Like honestly Thank you Brienne followed by Melissa Can you hear me? Yes Okay, great. Thanks First and foremost, I want to say to chief navarro That you have more supporters than not I truly respect you and Your staff and I just think you're doing an incredible job with what you have and so I think you are being transparent I've heard that word. I don't know how many times now and I just don't I don't agree with people who say that santa rosa police department is not being transparent The officers I have talked to are actually pro auditor The previous auditor did did ride alongs and spoke with officers and did call them on staff In the conversations I have had City council is the one who has to hire him It's not just renavaro who's like I just don't feel like hiring an auditor today, you know, so I feel like we're looking at the wrong person Santa rosa is the head of national police reform and the You know This goes back even to the last meeting The recent high-profile cases That have been brought up, you know, santa rosa police department wasn't involved and had it happened here I feel confident as a resident as a lifetime resident that The men and women of santa rosa police department would have handled things differently. They are well trained and they are true professionals Um, I don't uh understand Some of the things that are being talked about are police officers. I've seen them wave to people. I've seen them at schools um, you know, I just It makes me sad that this is a constant topic And everybody wants to blame ray for something that's going on when we all have Responsibility in this and the disrespect that is being talked about Such as victoria last week man. I was so disappointed to hear you say that I hear I am white I pay taxes I have privilege, you know talk about offensive And I don't understand why you haven't taken santa rosa up on a ride along They've offered you ride alongs and you haven't done it. Are you afraid that they're going to Your your mind is going to be changed um And for people who think they can do the job better than the people we currently have On the department they're hiring so put in an application put your boots on the ground and make a difference Thank you, um melissa followed by kimmy Can you hear me? Yes Oh, let me Okay. Hi, um, I just um want to make a quick comment A couple of things one is even if we are um ahead in police reform. I feel like Um as the largest city in the north bay, we should be kind of a beacon We should be setting an example so can we we can always do better And also, uh not on topic of that. I really uh would like to bring attention to Our homelessness situation and the way that they are constantly being shuffled from one place to another their possessions tossed in Dumpsters their vehicles impounded. They're only You know that they live in um, so I just Want to bring attention to I want to talk about it I want it to be known that these things are happening and we need to do better because we need to stop terrorizing um Our most vulnerable folks are folks who don't have homes. So that is pretty much all my comment. I yield the rest of my time Thank you We have evan followed by kimmy I would just like to reemphasize that it sounded like an actual recommendation I think it's from officer litchfield. I hope i'm pronouncing his name correctly eric um, you know, even from within the center of the police department your professional standards Uh representation there if i'm interpreting correctly Is that you would have an auditor With an additional, um, you know sort of civilian boards and community Driven boards And I think you have mutuality there in a sense that I don't think anyone's trying to say that You don't need this relationship You know to have some sort of direct interaction with the with the police department There's a certain level of just functionality that that requires that but there has to be actual empowered community oversight and the In addition to that and when you asked, uh, you know, council member fleming you asked for recommendations or opinions or what you could do better. I just that's how I heard Him speaking on it and that sounds like that's coming on behalf of the police department I hope our council is ready to move Um in light of everything this is not really a controversial Or even a politicized issue to talk about best practices for accountability And transparency this benefits the public and it benefits the police department because whatever is the truth is the truth And if we do have the finest officers that a lot of their supporters like to stake their claims to Transparency only reveals that is so so there's really no need for resistance. Uh, whether that's from You know voting uh electorate or through our representatives that we've elected here for the council This is an obvious time. So in addition to how important this auditor is and how rapidly That role is filled the expansion that wasn't just that's not just the sentiments you're getting from The public and a you know and a loud group of an activist community You also have just now heard it whether it was regarding cahoots the presentation given or um officer Litchfield when he was just speaking People that I think are genuinely concerned With professional standards and providing the best service for the community as possible All signs point to the same thing. So You know kind of beating a dead horse, but you're gonna hear keep hearing from us until there's something tangible That shows Progress that's not ahead of what other other cities and municipalities are doing in the country But what's the right thing to do? Um, I appreciate that we may be further ahead and more progressive than this average police department But from a historical context that is completely insufficient And from just a community benefit perspective that is insufficient and this doesn't need to be a point of controversy This is just about getting it right for a community. It's in the best interest of everyone. Thank you Thank you libs followed by kimmy Hi there. Can you hear me? indeed I want to echo evan's points about The truth is just the best thing for everybody in this instance One of the reasons why the public doesn't have a great relationship with the police department is not of the public's fault Its law enforcement has not been transparent about what they're doing has not been transparent about how they're funding their things Have not been transparent about the relationships with power in this county so How can you expect us to trust you if You won't tell us what's actually going on How can you expect us to trust you if you don't go over the things that we keep asking you to go over? I understand that some of you want to actually do things to the better serve your community I understand that some of you may not know what that is But frankly the things that people have been saying about Defunding the police and reallocating some of those funds to better serve Libs um for some reason we can no longer hear you Okay, why don't we go on to kimmy and then libs if you um figure out your Stuff we will uh let you finish your two minutes Kimmy Hi, can you hear me? Yes Hi, sorry, I kept raising my hand and bring it back down because I really wanted to speak to item the office item, but um I did also want to Bring to the attention that speaking to transparency and trust I really want to draw attention to the fact that there are two lived realities in this county You know after hearing some other folks speak saying that they have such high trust You know in our officials and our law enforcement You know there is a whole nother reality of folks who absolutely don't don't and and as liby was saying a second ago You know, I do believe that everyone has the best intentions to serve But that is constructed from your own lived experiences, right? So these two realities in um county essentially are the folks who you know are you know doing all right You have enough money. You probably have never had an interaction that was negative law enforcement And then there's the other you know lived reality where you're struggling You are shelterless or homeless or on the brink of that you haven't had a good interaction with law enforcement That has shaped your views in your life, right because incarceration subsequently makes us second class citizens Um being known as law enforcement puts us on edge being on the verge of poverty or shelterless it Shelterlessness, you know brings our interactions with law enforcement as well And and the shelterless in this community Frankly are not treated as part of our community people I hear on on these public safety comments all the time that oh, they're not even from this area Well, how many folks are transplants here, right? Quote transplants here may moved up from san francisco or moved up from san diego And yet they're still greeted as part of this community that now they live here because they have the privilege of having a roof over their head Right, so there there is a stark difference in how we treat people in this community based on this class status and the the wealth and equality Year is so drastic It's so disgusting and then we bring in public safety. Okay, so our shelterlessness Our shelterless folks are getting rated There we could reallocate funding to support people Same thing our undocumented folks are treated as second class that is our second class residents, right Are treated as less than similar to our shelterless folks And then on top of that two folks struggling with mental health and disabilities are also highly affected with By law enforcement because maybe there isn't the ability to um react to commands You know the way that law enforcement wants you to or whatever causes that or whatever causes that um Then the brutality be used against someone who's experiencing mental health crisis Which happens a lot in this county regardless if it's our local police department or our sheriffs The fact is that people have been harmed by law enforcement due to mental health Right, so so one thing I really hope that this subcommittee really looks like is how we treat our shelterless folks and how we treat our folks Um suffering with disabilities and mental illness in this county in in this city Because right now all we are doing is rating people and in times of covet That's even more detrimental because you are spreading covet by moving people around instead of providing them with basic resources And using the police as a tool to bully folks who are impoverished is absolutely unethical Um, oh, that's my time Thank you and lives. Um, I see that your hand is back up. I do believe you had two remaining minutes. Uh, would you like to um continue Can you hear me? Indeed Okay, I would like to continue. I'd like to also piggyback off of what Kenny is saying that The whole response to that to our houses neighbors has been abhorrent has been very disingenuous to building trust with community members and is just downright shameful People are dying on the streets and so many people are saying like So many people are saying that they're just dirty and that they don't deserve what they have or They don't deserve anything like they're treated like second-class citizens or even worse and that's not okay They are our neighbors. They are also our community. We have to be taking care of everybody using law enforcement to bully them and discredit them during a during a pandemic is Ah Honestly, it's really heartbreaking and it's so infuriating because When when law enforcement says they're here protect and serve They are literally not doing that. They're doing the exact opposite of that to our houses neighbors That's unforgivable And the fact that people want to call them heroes. I mean, I understand that you may have your own Live experiences with that might that may have been positive with law enforcement But again, the other side of that coin is that so many people are brutalized by them And the people that are being most vocal about it Are people that also probably been brutalized or or been abused by cops before in their lives So I would really urge all to consider Really just do this completely differently There are dozens of empty houses right now. There are dozens of places that actually could be made into liveable Great shelters for a houseless neighbor or a houseless neighbors. What is being offered right now is abysmal Now I haven't talked to that many of that that many of our neighbors myself But I know from up from the few that I've talked to they don't like the family park place They don't like the shelters that have been provided. They're not humane We can do better y'all can do better. So why don't you? Is it because you hate houses folks too? Because that's what it's looking like to me and so into so many of the rest of us You have an opportunity to take care of everybody. So do that I yield my time Thank you very much Judy and gray urbis Hi, can you hear me? Okay. Yes, please go on. Good. Uh, first of all, I would like to thank, uh captain, uh fredlin for illiterate excuse me for uh Answering some of the questions uh in a conversation that he and my wife had a little while ago, but uh, I'm calling in maybe shift the conversation just a little bit about What is a what is a possible path forward in some of the issues that that we're facing? I mean and not just us but people who live in the greater santa rosa area I can't tell you how many times I've seen Three or four maybe even sometimes a fifth car go through a red light at north doton and west college I mean I have become so cautious And sometimes people honk at me because I'm not moving in the intersection the second the light turns green because I can't see clearly. I'm not doing that because of traffic concerns um Just in in general, uh, we know that there is a lack of staff and the cities The answers have taken a major hit uh given the pandemic and the fires uh, but We have talked we have talked to the police. We've talked to code enforcement We have a situation our neighborhood where we have a house across street from us where loud noises boom boxes people working on cars on the street Uh, the jacked up small pickup truck that's been on stands for two weeks. It finally came down Things are just their code violations and code enforcement doesn't have the staff to deal with the hangers This is really discouraging and it's getting you know, we moved up here to be closer to our family and we accomplished that We came up here the year that 60 inches of rain was logged at the airport We weren't planning on that but we thought oh my god. This is so much better in san diego We love it up here Every once in a while. We're wondering did we do the right thing? um for all of the The difficulties the city is facing and again, I am not falling The police department in one bit. Um staffing is um A problem In a letter I wrote to chief navara. I said it would be really interesting if the department would be able to Say we need 15 more officers and this is what it's going to cost for the next 20 years you want more police Vote yes on proposition xyz and we'll hire the officers we need and we'll deal with the traffic issues We'll deal with the speeders We'll help code enforcement and we'll start doing some things that make san rizza A fine great place to live not that it's not That now but it seems like it's slipped a little bit in almost five years that we've been up here. So That's my two cents worth Thank you. Um, susan Uh, just in response to the uh, the last commenter I would say that if we had a cahoots model or anything like that We would not need all the policemen to be doing some of the things they are doing and they'd be available to do traffic Uh, but that was not what I wanted to talk about. I just want to say to those Who have trouble imagining That police are anything but good because they have only had good experiences with them I would simply say that Try to listen Listen to people who have had a different experience than you have had I'm I'm a white woman who has never had a bad experience with a police officer But I have been working on this for years because I believe what people are telling me And I believe what I see And I don't say the world is based upon only what I have experienced So I would simply say to everybody Listen to each other, please. Thank you Thank you seeing no, uh further, um live public comment who will now turn to voicemail public comment Chair Fleming, there's no voicemail public comment on public comment from non-agenda matters Okay, thank you. Um, so that now concludes public comment on agenda non-agendized items Seeing that we have no, um Let me pull up item four here Seeing that we have no, um minutes to approve we move on to item 5.2 Then blue line post social media post and This will be an opportunity for the subcommittee to ask questions of staff So Do we have any questions from our subcommittee? Do we have anything that staff would like to add about this? I have a question then. Um, I'm curious to know You know where we now stand with the I don't know chief you call it an insignia. I know this is not a flag originally a symbol or a decal What is the best way to refer to the symbol that we all know we're talking about? Well, I think it's um, I mean It's the thin blue line. So I think you call it what it is right, okay, so, um Does the could you um express for um the listening public and subcommittee what the current city policy is on the use of that image, um in in this In the city Yes, so um So there is no actual policy that says anything specifically about the thin blue line We uh, you know if I can provide use uh or could provide the uh the committee with a brief explanation of what happened and if if you'd like, but um the basically um the there was So basically a um in back in january we there was a post and included a banner which included the um, um a flag with a blue line in it That uh that banner was given to us by members of the community Uh to basically show their appreciation and support uh the initial The initial post uh generated A lot of reactions a lot of likes, um, which were positive. However, there were Most of the comments were negative We um Well, us as a department wanted to thank the community members who made the banner and the community who continues to Support us and are in the work that we do. It did offend some people who did view it so we um in order to try to eliminate barriers with uh, with any segment of our um of our community Uh, chose to uh remove remove it Uh, that is not made lightly or in a vacuum. Um, or without serious thought Um, you know, whenever there's a potential obstacle to positive engagement Uh, uh with any group, uh, we need to think about it and um and think about how we can communicate more effectively um for uh For me the the thin blue line is uh It is a symbol that has historically been uh one that is um that shows A line between uh peace and chaos and in the line In and what we do and the work that we do and it's used to honor Those who've uh been killed in the line of duty but um And it reflects everything that we do on a daily basis. Uh, however, um You know, this is uh, it has been Co-opted. Uh, there are uh people who have who view it uh in a in a divisive manner rather than the positive connotation That it is meant to represent Uh, so for us, you know, this is a difficult time for our our nation and our community Uh and for law enforcement and we need to uh understand the uh, you know the the role where we need to be um in in this particular um Conversation. So for us, uh, you know the men and women of the Santa Rosa police department. We're continued Uh continuing uh to be committed to improving the relationship and the trust with the community Um, you know, I do want to thank the community for their continued support and the department who have shown their support in In in our decisions, uh, we are steadfast in our mission to make this city a safe place to live work and play and to Continue to strive to be an organization That is uh committed to Setting the benchmark of policing of excellence in policing. So uh with that The decision was made to uh take take it off of the social media Post and not use it on the on the post anymore Um, and so that was an internal discussion The city of Santa Rosa as a whole, uh, I did speak with our mark mark comms director The social media policy for the city is being reviewed and um, as we Current it's currently being reviewed Thank you. So, um, I guess I was incorrect in um thinking that there had been um an agreement with the the city and the police department to discontinue the use of that image on in city operations Yeah, so the the decision is uh, we are not using it on social media. Um We are not using the timble line in social media. Okay. Thank you for the information Natalie and the banner itself chief Uh, the banner was removed from the department Thank you Um, do we have any additional uh questions from the subcommittee? Okay, seeing none. I will thank you chief for your explanation. Um, I will open this up for public comment on item 5.2 Melissa followed by Evan. Can you hear me? Indeed. Thank you Okay, thank you My name is Melissa I am a white woman Who sees that systemic racism exists? Also poverty and mental illness My husband and I bought my santa rosa home In 1977 Raised my child here and helped raise my grandchildren I'm a retired long time santa rosa city public school teacher I thoroughly appreciate police chief navarro's comments In the press democrat after taking down the thin blue line flag The comments showed me that he is a wise leader Not only smart but wise So thank you chief navarro Not displaying this political flag Is one small thing we need In these times when we must improve our society towards a goal of true equality for all It's destructive to polarize people and issues As some letter writers on this topic Have attempted Not supporting the thin blue line flag Does not mean that we do not support good police practices and wise officers I also want to thank a previous commenter Who like myself has not had any negative experience with police or sheriff But I well know people who have because of Being a person of color And not doing anything wrong had negative experiences not just here but other places And her comment to try to think about the others I totally agree with So thank you and I'll yield my remaining time Thank you Evan followed by susan Uh, thank you again for the time, um You know a lot for this these agenda items and uh the the prior meeting continuing to this meeting You know we're policy based and very substantive and I know this is somewhat policy based but it's really Cultural and I think you have to frame things in a way that people are able to understand and relate to them Otherwise, we don't really have a productive Conversation and people tend to get defensive and misunderstand each other when they're only operating From their own experience without empathy for other people has been pointed out by the cost to college performing I've been trying to find you know, you know something to relate it to and you know If we were interacting and I'm standing on your foot And I don't know that I'm doing that It still hurts your for your foot hurts the same Regardless if you then inform me That i'm standing on your foot and I still don't think that I am and I'm a denial that I am that's another point in the conversation Uh, that's still very rude and inconsiderate of me to not listen to somebody telling me they're standing on On the foot and the point is it hurt either way whether it was intentional or not so You know symbols are literally representations of figurative meetings. That's by definition, you know what a symbol is Without their meetings. They serve all no purpose. So for you know, I'd say like this there are Countless ways to publicly show support for police and law enforcement That don't have to use symbols imagery that also devalue others lives their basic rights to exist um And actively opposing wide spread efforts for criminal justice reform So I ask anyone who's going to call in in support or who thinks they're in support to ask themselves why they're voluntarily choosing to associate with something that dehumanizes and uh people and could be cruelty As part of your show of support. Why would you insist on continuing to do so when you've been made aware Of what you're doing even if not intended by you or not your personal interpretation once you've been made aware of that And this isn't even like a fringe opinion I mean it's maybe not a majority of the public but is a very substantial amount of the public and it's very simple There are so many ways you can express support for the police officers Why would you volunteer one? That's hurtful. Um, and I would also really compare this that Denying systemic racism is very similar Uh, to holocaust denial And the fact that we would actually even allow and validate public debate for we would never do that for somebody denying the holocaust We have to take that same attitude when it regards Basic human rights and conditions. It's both sidesism is a complete false equivalence that that's what the divide is It should not be a matter of disagreement about human dignity in life And you don't have to voluntarily opt into things that are cruel to other people. So you really the ending part I know I just have a few seconds Because I really hope there's a different pr protocol, which it sounds like there is because again There's a theme of preventative practices versus responsive And we need a lot of improvement there and this never should have happened in the first place. Thank you Thank you. Susan followed by michael first off Kevin I want to thank you very much for that comment. I really appreciate it um There's considerable disagreement as to what the thin blue flag blue line flag originally meant Um chief navarro says that there though is one of those in law enforcement Who says it represents the police officers who stand between the public and lawlessness Other in the others in the community say that has always stood as a symbol sort of us versus them For those who don't understand whatever it once meant no longer matters Today after years of violent trump rhetoric and plenty before that It now most definitely stands for us versus them And for some in law enforcement A virulently racist version With that new meaning a terrible message is sent to the community When a thin blue line flag is flown Even those in law enforcement who do not intend a message of hate should understand why that is the message that others receive I'll repeat what I said earlier. It is necessary for those who have only had good interactions with law enforcement To listen to those who have not believe them This flag has never been necessary And now it can literally be traumatic It's time to reply retire this flag forever. Thank you Thank you. Michael followed by samra Hi, I'd like to um express that This flag should not be used in any form With the senator of the police department any other police department The message that this flag portrays is extremely portrays the police the audience Michael we can no longer hear you Police and that are overly brutalized and sometimes killed for for for people who are Who communities who are brutalized and often killed by police The question is are we the anarchy in this metaphor? um Is black lives matter the anarchy and it's interesting to me that that this flag um Was not nearly as popular as it is today before the black lives matter movement Why is that? Is it because actually yes, the many of the people who've used this flag see black lives matter as anarchy Is that a way to address the wounds that exist in this community in any shape way shape or form? I'm really shocked that the police department subscribes to this idea that That they're somehow protecting the community from anarchy at the same time that they're they're you know brutalizing people who are responding to The lack of accountability the lack of actual, you know, lawfulness within the police department That doesn't make any sense to me. That doesn't add up If we're going to actually restore order to society It can't be an order based on police brutality As something that's normal or accepted And you know, it's not surprising that the white supremacists fly this flag because it is That's exactly what they subscribe to the belief that That it's okay for Community such as the black community to be overpoliced and to be brutalized and to be held the higher standards than white communities I don't believe that this flag should be used in any form not just on social media This flag is so divisive and it's toxic. It's absolutely toxic in this community. It should be there shouldn't be them You know, it's it's good that there wasn't a public apology for the flag, but it's a little bit too late, you know We need to be Going into the we need to think about how we're actually going to make up for this horrible incident And that's my time Thank you Samra followed by a laborer Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Okay. So Navarro, it really seems like you don't While you did have this flag taken down, it doesn't seem like you necessarily opposed this flag slash you Still kind of stand by it as in like you don't see the problem with it Even though like, you know, hey, we don't want to be like the you know device, you know We don't want to cause a vision. We're going to take it down But I still kind of like it as in like you um And honestly the thin blue line flag it's it's just thinly veiled racism. That's it like Like blue lives it's it's a symbol It's it's in symbols have meaning and the thin blue line has the arrogant nature of saying that the police are the only thing Preventing society from descending into mass chaos and anarchy Um, it's commonly used by those who oppose BLM and aggressively support the police regardless of anything the police have done Raising them above scrutiny and above doubt So a weird sense of culty nationalism. So supporting the police There's no doubt no scrutiny despite all odds It's no surprise that this flag was flown at the white supremacist attack on the nation's capital Because really that's all it is blue lives don't exist stop drawing equivalents between a racial identity and a job And this blue lives matter flag. It's all it's done is like tear people apart It's meant to promote this sense of camaraderie. It's like it creates like a sense of family community like we The I guess us versus them But us is like it's a group the police are a group and it's meant as a symbol It's supposed to you know, identify that group and you know support that group And in that and due to that like the police become less like this is a job and more like this is a family And we have to watch each other's back and it promotes that notion And that's all it's done and that's all it's been used for it's promoted The notion of oh, we're a family. Oh, we deserve like we deserve support and it's been used by people racists to support the police Despite anything the police have ever done Even though it's a job and that's all it should be viewed as and I remember when tom schwedhelm wore that like The yarder thing or gator what I don't know the mass thing with the you know, blue like the blue lives matter symbol or whatever um, and it really it really goes to show that like people do not view this as a job and It's and it's harmful. That's why it's harmful The police have the position of having to like, you know Being able to enforce like, you know violent order on whoever they see fit and get away with and get away with many things since they are They are they're the ones executing the law so That camaraderie is dangerous it dangerous for us all and we're telling you this and for that one woman who came after me, um The world doesn't revolve around you like just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean that it's not real Thank you. The labor followed by noon um I I think samra said it really well I think everyone so far has pretty much had this same message but And if you're flying a flag that white supremacists and racists and neo nazis are flying You probably need to rethink that like Supporting symbols that people with violent tendencies and racist opinions hold um Usually means you're in the wrong. I think that it's it's a it's a clear symbol to at least like reevaluate and they think for a minute and um also that that um interpretation that the thin blue line is a line between Basically peace and chaos or good and bad good and evil That's um, that's super divisive what you're saying at at that point is that Officers in are infallible and into anybody being policed is automatically a criminal um, so for A police department that has put a lot of lip service into public perception and Community building over the past few months I would say that's a really poor tactic to take because it's not it's not building community It's dividing community It's further separating law enforcement away from the community And saying that there are some people who are good and the rest of the people are really um, you know closer to animals or closer to um somebody who needs who just needs needs um Needs authority over them and I just I think that's wrong I think you're sending the wrong message and I think um The fact that it was posted to social media in the first place was embarrassing And the fact that you're now kind of like apologizing while still defending it is um It's a mixed message at best and um also still kind of embarrassing. So thank you Thank you. No, I'll follow up by leslie Can you hear me? Yes, please go ahead This symbol was always racist I will say that again This symbol was always racist There were no good intentions to corrupt No initial good use that was then later co-opted. This symbol was always racist Even the language that was used to describe its supposed good intentions Saying that there is a thin blue line between total lawlessness Comes from the same origins Origins in racism as police themselves For those who do not know police originated as white slave catching vigilantes And this word lawlessness this word used to scare and to Like this word used to scare and to garner support from People of great privilege predominantly people of white privilege and people of financial privilege Into supporting violent institutions has had a long history They might as well have projected the willy horton ad on the office on loop This word lawlessness is almost always applied to black people to indigenous people and to communities of color And the law and the supposed laws police uphold are violent traumatic and racist in their origin and application And we know what symbol that flag accompanies How many times have people seen that flag next to the confederate flag next to flagrant neo-nazi symbols We know what that symbol means and comes from so why is it more acceptable? Why is it allowed and why is it not viewed with the same revulsion? There's no honor in upholding systemic oppression No good intentions to flout The places that seem to be the most lawful are the places with no police presence It was once spoken by a number of progressive senators that what does a world that police look like a white suburb I will take pause to ensure that this is translated adequately for 10 more seconds And then I will yield the rest of my time At the mark of 20 Thank you Leslie followed by demitra. Hi. Thank you so much for this time and for addressing this topic um, I want to appreciate some of the comments and sentiments of the other public comments as well as the comments that were made by council member victoria phleming at the council meeting a couple weeks ago as well as vice mayor roger's and council member Shwell to help me. I know that this is a difficult issue, but I really want to point out specifics in that The thin blue line has been posted on social media before by the city of sienna rosa Unfortunately, that was done in april and it was april 21st 2020 There were public comments that were made about it appearing in a video And it was taken down And those comments were about it being a Resist symbol a symbol of white supremacy and a symbol that was inappropriate on a city site I want to speak to the fact that social media is powerful I know that council member soyer Spoke a couple weeks ago in that, you know, he just doesn't go on it And that is one way to do it But there are a lot of people that are watching and are listening And it does affect people's lives. I think in this instance, obviously, we've seen how emotional this topic is But it speaks to the fact that it can bring about an unsafe situation for community members and That is something that I know Chief Navarro has said that he wants to bring about safety for all community members So we have to really pay attention to what we put on social media um And because it was taken down once before In response to community I think that it speaks to a very dire need to have social media standards operations and procedures As well and policies for all departments and consistency of all departments and also someone Looking at social media and monitoring it And that all departments actually are posting in some similar format And not necessarily having just a number of a department posting But there's actually a pr marketing someone who is skilled in that way And that will use the proper Symbols or images and not the ones that are said that they're not to be used so I just want that to be known that that was equal 21st 2020. Thank you Thank you Dimitra followed by resident eight five eight eight Hello, can you hear me? Yes Hello, can you hear me? Yes, yeah Can you hear us? Oops All right. Dimitra if you come back we'll get you in after resident eight five eight eight Can you hear me? Yes Okay, great. My name is Pamela Van Helsima and I just wanted to um Save how concerned I was and and really disappointed when I came upon the post of the thin blue landslide in fact I understand that there was an anonymous gift Of this banner and I'm not sure why anonymous is kind of weird to me to the police To show appreciation. It was a it was a strange flag. It was a flag that had not the right number of stars The number of stars was similar to the number of stars around the civil war time Not sure what that was supposed to mean these details matter um symbols matter and the thin blue lag flag has I read all about the history of that symbol. It's kind of uh interesting It's been used as a badge of honor in policing and to stand up for one another But what we've learned especially over this last year is that kind of standing up for one another is sometimes hiding injustices and hiding Poor police practices police practices that oppress people especially people of color and Since that has been so widely understood I mean everyone not just in the nation, but the world is understanding that It is really shocking that the judgment of what was appropriate to post publicly that way um That's especially an MLK weekend. I mean At any time, but I don't I'm okay weekend to be that the symbol that you're celebrating the judgment was really shocking so I watched and waited really quite a long time watching a lot of comments come in about it until finally Chief Navarro made a wise decision to remove it and post some comments And they were comments of of careful and measured leadership and and leadership about listening And I I appreciate that and I'd like us to move in that direction because I to me the thin blue line is drawing lines And creating us versus them situations And our our communities are not going to be safer when it's us versus them Our communities want it safer when it's we all together when we partner with not just police, but health care schools individual community members like me caring deeply about Having everyone live in dignity and harmony together and giving people what they need to have A good existence and to communicate well together. I mean that's what our vision should be and anytime we're drawing line between us versus them um I think that's divisive and that's not helpful. So Let's let's not use this flag anymore And then we can honor individuals. I don't like anyone dying a police officer Or or a black or brown body or anybody but let's let's celebrate life and and eliminate this kind of divisive symbol um Dimitra Hi, thank you. I had a little technical difficulty there Hi, I'm Dimitra Smith. I don't live in in uh, Santa Rosa, but I have been called to Santa Rosa um, I have heard um The tears I have seen the um injuries um, I have heard the people that were too afraid to be included in the human rights report Um, I'm not going to get into semantics. I'm going to give a few facts fact law enforcement is an outgrowth of the institution of slavery in this country fact I grew up during Rodney king and the central park five I grew up before the cameras were there fact I spent 10 years doing anti-racist work and warning folks about what was coming While I was being attacked on social media And in my community by people who said but don't you think it's better now That we have a black president Don't you think we have made some improvements Are you still not satisfied the thin blue line Being the line between chaos and law enforcement We are telling you that law enforcement is the chaos law enforcement is the lawlessness When you are allowed to harm maim and kill people with immunity That is chaos What you are doing by utilizing this flag is you are signaling to white supremacists We are with you We feel you We stand with you and if that's not the intention and I certainly hope it's not It should be so clear by now What this flag means I'm going to tell everyone right now that legislation is about to be introduced in this state To address white supremacists in law enforcement We're not going to be pleading for our humanity and messing around with jurisdictions here and there We are going to the state and we will be addressing this Do not use this flag This is an insult To black lives to indigenous lives to latinx lives to asian lives. This is an insult This is insult to injury This should never have happened Never We have to do better Black lives matter. I yield my time. Thank you Thank you Seeing no additional live public comment. We will now move on. Oops Kimmy Hi, so sorry. I thought I had my hand up. Can you hear me? Hi So I just want to say that I mean so many people already has have eloquently spoke about this and you know not to keep Nailing this home or hammering this home But this flag to communities who are affected does not mean support for law enforcement rather A support for perpetuating racial injustice via the criminal justice system For every cry for our police to please stop killing ground and black siblings There has been an argument to support what is known as blue lives We have seen this flag flying alongside other racist imagery at the state capital and all throughout the summer's protests against police Brutality. So this is not a phenomenon. This is very well known Imagery speaks volumes and the fact that SRPD was so tone-deaf to this issue really highlights the Disconnection between law enforcement and this community, especially including communities affected by over policing The virulent supporters of this flag on the facebook page also shows why communities color do not feel safe here Your threads are riddled with low-key and high-key racism Classism and white supremacy And I see the comments of the supporters of law enforcement cheering the use of force against people who are struggling with homelessness And public health issues such as addiction and mental health They're cheering you on to harm people who need help And then the jokes that you also post on your on your pages You know when someone is arrested for drug use or for drug possession That is dehumanizing. This is not funny. No one wakes up Wanting to be addicted to drugs or wanting to have to hustle like that, right? So so i'm a formerly incarcerated youth and I had addiction as a teenager It was a high school dropout and then you know miraculously through the support of mentors not law enforcement at all Not the juvenile justice system at all But through the help of mentors and counselors I was able to get clean and then get my masters in public policy And one thing I do every year is go back to My my old rehab and talk to the youth there and really validate that I know you didn't want to wake up and be in the situation And they cry because that is the first time that people have humanized them instead of calling them bad youth or bad adults Which eventually is what happens, right and say I know you didn't want to be like this And there's some external circumstances and it's I'm so sorry that instead of getting help you're treated as a bad person Right. So you have people on your threads who are just jumping on this and also expressing their happiness against the way you dehumanize other people So it's disgusting. It's inhuman and it's wrong And if your desire is to build community begin by truly listening to those who don't trust you And listen to why they don't trust you and be accountable for that regardless if you were the direct actor or not There is value to being humble and self-reflective And I know you have many officers who feel that they individually are good people and that may be true But when you all wear the same uniform and no one is held accountable for misdeeds Then you will all have to carry the brunt of that distrust and you need to reconcile with that And I mean to include dehumanizing traumatic actions regardless if they are within your policies or not Because and this is really important a lot of your policies do do allow for misuse of force and power And chief Navarro, I cannot express enough how painful it was to wash tear gas out of the eyes of teenagers this last summer I cannot express the rage it brought me to see you all blaming This now concludes the The live public comment portion before we move on to voicemail public comment. I want to note I have I can extend until 4 p.m. But I we can't go beyond that. So if your comment is not Played today. It is because we will lose our forum at 4 p.m Um, madame clerk, would you please commence with voicemail public comment? I'm the hometown resident of Santa Rosa and I'm calling about the agenda item regarding the blue line flag facebook post On march 31st 2020 the Santa Rosa police department mourned the loss of one of their own Mary Lou armor who died from complications due to covet 19 Santa Rosa residents and the surrounding community mourned with them In the tubs fire as well as subsequent fires over these last few years We praised our police officers For their sacrifice and service as they left their homes and their families to serve our communities and save lives We made signs And taped them to fences we cheered for them and thanked them How quickly we forget in recent events It has become apparent that the mayor and city council May have pressured the Santa Rosa police department to remove a photo of a thin blue line flag That was gifted to them in support of their servants I am saddened and disappointed that our community leaders feel that the opinions of the community they represent Have become so divisive That we cannot post a picture of a flag which is meant to support those who keep us safe on a daily basis And commemorate officers like Mary Lou who have died in so doing To the mayor and city council I implore you to represent the majority of citizens in Santa Rosa who respect and support the Santa Rosa police department Hello there. I'm calling for the feedback on the blue line flag post removal item on the public safety subcommittee on Wednesday My name is Kenneth Clark. I've been a Santa Rosa resident for 11 years living in rink and valley And it's a beautiful part of the country. I'm like any other I would hate to see it spoiled but unfortunately what I've been seeing in our city is that it's significantly losing its shine The level of homelessness is disgusting allied with the crime that comes along with it Last year itself was shocking for Santa Rosa To have rights and see local businesses demolished These things are something I thought I'd never see here in Santa Rosa However, worse than that if you can imagine it is the absolute lack of support From the local city government for our police department and the police who are tasked to meet these issues head on The facebook post removal for the thin blue line flag was disgusting I originally found it hard to even accept that this is something our council actively supported Chief of police Ray Navarro and his team have proven themselves to be trustworthy dependable and honorable Fulfilling their obligations to the community and the council The very least the council can do is to provide full support for our first responders And provide them with the necessary funding and staffing levels to do their job properly It just seems like the council are simply bowing to the liberal progressive agenda from a localized minority of supporters And shockingly agreeing to police defunding and advertising the movable of their support for its police officers and social media This is a dangerous move by local officials and will create issues for our officers on the streets The council have a responsibility to ensure that we the public are protected and the laws upheld The council have the responsibility to staff our police force with appropriately trained individuals Who can teach and train new officers providing a consistent staffing level appropriate for our growing town into the future The police force needs to be supported financially and vocally by this council I implore you to allow the repost of the thin blue line flag And raise awareness for your full support of our officers in this community I implore you to refund the one million dollars that were removed from the budget for this s rpd And I implore you to allow staffing levels of the police to be increased to account for future attrition And aging out of the current police officers to teach and train new recruits as needed for the future The country gently for our officers with the current lack of city support Is such that all our officers will either age out or leave and santa rosa will be left with no tenable force to protect the city or its citizens Please do not let the council's current lack of support for our police department become the beginning of the end for our city Thank you for your time Yes, I am calling to provide input on the police staffing study session. My name is kelly allers I am a resident And homeowner in santa rosa for the last six years I love our community. I have great confidence in the police force and staff and the sheriff's department I'm in support of chief navarro and the rest of the officers who continue to do their work every day and keep us safe And I want to continue to support them And make sure that they are funded to do the work that keeps our community safe. Thank you My name is barbra buoy and i'm calling about agenda item 6.5 I've worked for the city of santa rosa for the past two decades I'm calling to say how appalled and embarrassed i am at our city council for reportedly forcing the police department to remove a facebook post Detecting a thin blue line banner and then having them issue a public apology A banner that was given to the police department as a thank you gift for their dedicated service to the community the community in which I work and live I hold our police department in the highest regard and for santa rosa council members to take such an unnecessary action is shameful This thin blue line was the symbol that was represented when detective mary lou armor was taken away from the community last march I don't remember the police department removing that social media post. What was so different about that post Council how dare you disparage her name and all the other men and women who have sacrificed their lives for their communities Please show some respect for those that protect you I refuse to call any of you city leaders as none of you have demonstrated any leadership qualities How can you effectively run a city without publicly supporting your police department? Chief Navarro was hired for a reason let him run his department If the council members are in the mood to publicly remove things. Why don't you start with garbage man? I mean council member eddie alvarez in what world does the city council member publicly refer to their police department as trash Yes, eddie your community has seen your social media posts and your edited version too When do we get to see your heart felt public apology? I'm guessing you won't be forced to do that Council if you want to do something effective for our police department How about you ensure that they have the resources they need to do a good job to protect their community? Or maybe something as simple as publicly thanking them for the difficult job they're doing As the saying goes praise them public and criticize them private Maybe you all should give it a try and want to thank the santa rosa police department for all their hard work And I fully support the thin blue line Hi, my name is kelly and i'm calling in regards to agenda items 6.5 I'm the wife of a santa rosa pd officer and i'm extremely angry and embarrassed by the way the city council is treating and Trash talking some of the hardest working men and women I've ever had the pleasure to know these women and women have dedicated their lives to helping others within the city of santa rosa And deserve far more respect than you guys were giving them My husband has had a very successful career with the santa rosa police department and he loves what he does He goes to work every day not knowing if he'll come home that night, but he does it to keep you and the city safe Lately the morale station has been at all time low due to the media's push of hate for law enforcement And the hate stems in deep as your own city council members and that's just absolutely disturbing Just yesterday your very own mr. Eddie alvarez made a public post on facebook to which a follower replied sr pd is trash and mr Alvarez replied in quotes I won't deny the city council is elected by the people of the city and therefore expected to be held to a higher standard Mr. Alvarez's behavior in his comments is embarrassing and downright disturbing I am baffled this man holds a seat on the city council And I highly encourage all of you who sit next to him to ask yourself Is this the kind of person I want to associate myself with and am I proud of the way he chooses to represent the city of santa rosa Let's talk about the word trash for a second since mr. Alvarez seems to think he's been in women at santa rosa pdr Of such my husband has seen more in his life on time on patrol that i'm sure all of you guys have combined My husband has comforted fathers and mothers why they've held their dead child He has placed his own fingers into a gunshot wound to save someone from bleeding out He has saved so many men and women from domestic situations Some of which still reach out to thank him or update them him on their life currently He has sat on scene of many homicides and murders and has sat with a woman Who had a medical emergency while driving and all he could do was comfort her while she passed right in front of them The list goes on my husband has received many awards and recognition for his hard work while to sit with Santa Rosa pd He has this many holidays birthdays and celebrations He works days night swings weekends on call and at time He will go a day or about a week or more without a single day off He attends trainings on his days off to be the best officer he can And mr. Alvarez, this is the man you're referring to as trash Not to detract from the original issue at hand here Which is the thin blue line flag that was kindly donated to Santa Rosa pd The flag is a symbol in a way we honor the men and women who have paid the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty The thin blue line represents these men and women is the line these men and women walk every single day to protect society from Anarchy this is a symbol we proudly fly in our home in a way we honor the hard work The hard work my husband does it is the way we honor and respect a friend of my husband who gave her life in the line of duty It is the way we honor all of my husband's fallen brothers and sisters I've seen my husband at more than one occasion come home from a fallen officer's funeral in tears And I know what that symbol is and behind the thin blue line means to him and every single officer I would encourage each Of and every one of our city council members to reach church into the true meaning of the thin blue line flag And what it represents before making such rash decisions in the future There is not a single symbol in the world that someone could not find a reason or a way to be offended by What the thin blue line represents is far bigger Hi, my name's Sharon Bailey. I called earlier, but I did not put the agenda So this is agenda three the police staffing study session and I will just repeat what I said My name's Sharon Bailey. I live in Santa Rosa for 43 years. I love our city and I'm grateful for all you who serve Thank you But I'm so disappointed in the lack support for the Santa Rose police officers from our city council and the city manager I'm asking that you refund the million dollars to the police department budget Hire more officers to keep our community safe and pay our officers appropriately The safety our community depends upon it. I ask and I urge you that our city council and city managers start to support Public safety, please remember you represent us. I ask you to hear our plead Why would an officer work for a city that fails to support them? Why please get some backbone and let's do the right thing and support the man and women who lay down their light for us Your work is not laying down your light nor is my work. So let's appreciate those who do I get the next door app and every time I read a police report the officer of the uses email I emailed them back subject line. Thank you And then with a short note to say please disregard the hate of the mainstream media And know this and know the majority of this town wants and we need you I thank them for their service and for making our city a safe place And you know what the majority of them send me back a quick little note saying thank you for your kind words So please take care of our police so they can do their job We all reap the benefits and we are the people that support you and we are the ones paying our taxes Again, thank you for your service to our community and thank you for listening to the people of Santa Rosa, California Thank you a lot again, Sharon Bailey Hello, my name is matt bough this message is in regards to the city council public safety subcommittee Subcommittee meeting on January 27th and specifically the blue line flag social media posts I live in rink and valley. I have raised my family here in santa rosa And have been a sonoma county resident for the majority of my life My neighborhood has seen an uptick of property crime in the past few months I have been a victim of this crime twice recently and 100 support the police that have come and helped me We need to have law and order and security in our city if people don't feel safe, they will leave Please do not take any more financial support away from our vital police services And restore any funding that you have previously taken away Our police officers need more funding not less Security must be a top priority of our city council We the people of santa rosa will be watching your actions and we will remember when it comes time for reelection All of my friends and family 100 support our police officers Remember people that want security and support police officers are the majority Don't cave into the demands of a vocal minority The blue line flag only shows support of the law We love renavaro as our police chief and we do not appreciate when he has feet when He is made to feel that he can't show support for his own officers out there putting their lives on the line to protect us Thank you Hi, my name is santa and demand and i'm calling um to support our santa rosa city police And we feel that they're very crucial and important to the safety of our town as well as our school And i'm just calling to um see what we can do about supporting the continued staff and the necessary Solutions for our city to remain safe as well as their presence at school And if you have any questions, please feel free to give me a call again. We're very thankful um for our police presence in the community And in stores and schools and um events and all the following And we would like to continue seeing the support from our city for our center of the police. Thank you so much. Bye-bye Yeah, i'm calling about the police staff staffing study session. Uh, my name is joe vertarco I've lived in Tobelstone above the old county hospital for 16 years and in santa rosa for 67 years My family's been here since 1882 on one side in 1925 on the other um I'm just calling I want to make sure our police officers are taken care of The funding is given to them. I know there was a cut made Uh back in june. I said in a letter to our district representative. She knows who she is Uh the police chief and our mayor Received response from chief navarro only Up here and cobblestone were faced with constant homeless issues because of the hospital And it's just I just feel sorry for the police nowadays because they work so hard and get no respect I've been in this town known many police officers Sheriffs and city cops. I went to school with and grew up with and they were all great guys And it just upsets me now To be seen what these cops are going through now and all they're trying to do is do their job I just appreciate the city council If they would stop trying to defund the police and I think there is a silent majority I know people hate to hear that but a silent majority out there who really doesn't like the way santa rosa is going It used to be the city designed for living And uh, it's no longer that way The homeless issues. I mean you meet people now somebody recently said go down industrial. It's a mess I drove down industrial just to see and it was a mess. So The cops are I just feel like their hands are tight. I know the city council denies it But I I know for a fact they are so please help the police give them the money they need I know you took money because of minority groups are complaining about The the police defund the police by antifa black lives matter We don't want the police to fund it. So I'm just calling to let you know that And uh, I hope you listen to the police That the the people of santa rosa. Thank you Hi, this is gary olson calling. Um, I'm calling in regards to the police staffing study session Um, I lived in uh rincon valley area of santa rosa for the last 20 years And I wanted to voice my uh displeasure and lack of support That santa rosa police officers are getting from both the city manager and city council. I think it's absolutely ridiculous Uh, I find it very hard to believe that uh police officers Working without the support of city manager and city council Uh, it makes their job extremely difficult. I'm also asking that you refund the million dollars or Or reallocate the million dollars that was uh taken away from the police department's budget Which is uh shown a decrease in The staff and the high and low officers to keep our community safe um The safety of santa rosa depends on it And I also um asking slash demanding that city Council and the city manager especially Start to support public safety. That's uh, it's why we live where we live Again, my name is gary olson And uh, I appreciate uh the opportunity to voice my opinion Good evening. I am calling regarding agenda item 6.5 on the thin blue lion's leg posts and issues surrounding that So over the past year, I've watched what's been happening Around our community and even as far as san francisco and I've honestly thought to myself how lucky I am to live in this community in a way from the politics of other counties where police officers are afraid to do their jobs and Fear being charged criminally just for going to work It seems the santa rosa pd has always been a step above that and one of the most professional organizations in the region I've formed a lot of friendships with officers and have heard of the horrible morality suffer from it work every day Frankly, given the events I've seen unfold over the past week I'm considering moving away from santa rosa And i'm not sure that I want to live in a community where our city council members do not openly support The hardest working men and women in the entire city The thin blue lion's leg post that was made on the department's facebook Was not offensive to the silent majority of us who quietly and humbly support and appreciate the hard work and Sacrifices that your police officers make every day in the city It was pretty offensive that the chief took down the post to his officers and other officers It was disrespectful to mary lou the officer who gave her life to the city It was almost more offensive that he felt compelled to issue an apology to the same people who just a few months ago were smashing windows downtown In a lawless rampage that forced Hardworking citizens to pay for and clean the disaster that they left behind Those people don't need an apology Come up this where's the apology from city council member eddie alvarez A citizen comments on this facebook post the srpd is trash and he responds. I won't deny That's completely unacceptable behavior and disgusting How could the city council demand that the chief of police issue a pathetic and embarrassing apology to some anarchists? While their own members are trash talking the hardest working employees in the city with no recourse I've seen at least one response That alvarez sent to an email where he acted as though he was a victim and didn't even apologize or accept any responsibility for his hurtful words If the chief was pressured by the city council to take down the thin blue line flag Perhaps the city council should step up and accept responsibility for their role Making the chief to be the face of evil while council members or the city manager hides in the shadows Unwilling to face the officers who they are openly disrespectful is a poor leadership strategy I'd be curious how the city council would feel if srpd officers started openly posting on their own social media accounts that city council members were trash We know exactly what would happen officers would be ordered to tape down the posts Investigated internally and punished for violating one of the many policies that I read online under the transparent page on the srpd website There's a word that comes to mind when I consider all of this hypocrisy Your council has demonstrated that the officers in the community leadership style do what I say and not what I do Frankly they're police officers. They arrest people. Everyone's not going to like them every day, but they work hard. Thank you for your time I am calling to provide input for the police staffing study session My name is Lisa Olson and I have lived in santa rosa for the past 20 years And sonoma county for 23 years. I just wanted to say I'm so disappointed in the lack of support for the santa rosa police officers From our city council and the city manager I am asking that you refund one million dollars to the police department budget Hire more officers to keep our community safe and pay our officers appropriately The safety of our community depends upon it. I demand that our city council and city manager start to support public safety Why would an officer want to work for a city that fails to support them? Again, my name is lisa olson and I just Wanted to call and voice my support. Thank you Hi, my name is robert cantrell and I am a fit of santa rosa And I would like to provide input on agenda item Number three and I think it said it's three dot one and I'm I'm calling to provide some input for the police staffing study session I've lived in rincon valley for um over 20 years now And I am very supportive of the santa rosa police department And the safety and security that they have provided to us here In santa rosa and I would really like our city council and our city manager to provide Support and to provide some encouragement to our police officers and to our police department who have been through some very very challenging and difficult times Very difficult to navigate I'm also asking specifically that you restore the budget To the full amount. It's my understanding that you have reduced their budget by a million dollars What what the specifics are i'm not sure But I would like to ask that you would restore their budget so that they can maintain The proper staffing and the proper police department Officer count so that they can continue to take good care of our safety and security The safety of our community is very important obviously to me and I know it is to you And I would really ask you all on the city council and our city manager To continue to do everything you can to support public safety And I don't really think that that means that we would defund the police department and reduce the number of officers Thank you so much for listening and thank you for your service to our city Hi, I am calling about the staffing and the cutback of our police department So can we pause the public comment please and santa rosa. I live in the jc neighbor um I'm noticing that um a lot of these comments are not in any type of reference to item 5.2 Um, but are in reference to the staffing study that was heard Um, so i'm wondering if we can move um past those ones to the given our limited time to the items um for the um at hand Thank you. Okay. Some of these are are from They were added from our meeting last week, and I don't have any way of knowing Which ones are which without playing them? Okay. I'm sorry. Okay good and I am absolutely sick and tired of the unbelievable amount of damage and vandalism and theft that is rampant and are Which used to be a very nice neighborhood in the city of santa rosa This is Almost unbelievable. I am tired of sitting at stop lights and watching two three four cars go through because Running through on red lights because there are not enough officers as it is to stop any kind of traffic violations i'm tired of being You know every time I call the police department. It's like yeah, um You know, we don't have an officer to come out unless it's an emergency Just has to stop the city designed for living is no more designed for living period and I mean period My family of you know three kids and all their husbands wives and children Are all looking to move out of santa rosa out of california But especially out of santa rosa because they can also no longer Stand the amount of people creeping around your houses at night. I've had prowlers in my backyard I've had to lock my garage because people have gone in my garage I mean it's enough is enough and the fact that People in the city chose to cut back on the budget for policemen. We're so short staffed anyway as I understand it Uh, I don't know how you could possibly cut back Anyway, my voice is to get some money back into the police department hire as many officers as it takes So that we can actually live in a safe environment in the city again Or you will lose the tax base alone is going to have to kill you guys. I just I tell you I don't know how you're going to be able to support any salaries at all when all these tax You know the people who work and pay taxes will leave the city So, um, I hope you listen because you need to listen and thank you very much Hi, my name is santa into mon I am calling to provide input for the police staffing study session. My name is toddy DeVries and I've lived in Longtime resident of santa rosa and I'm calling about the agenda item regarding the blue line flag facebook post On march 31st 2020 the santa rosa police department mourned the loss of one of their own Mary lou armor who died from complications due to covet 19 santa rosa residents and the surrounding community mourned with them In the tubs fire as well as the police department Fires over these last few years We praised our police officers For their sacrifice and service as they left their homes and their families to serve our communities and save lives We made signs and taped them to fences. We cheered for them and thanked them How quickly we forget in recent events? It has become apparent that the mayor and city council may have pressured the santa rosa police department to serve their families May have pressured the santa rosa police department to remove a photo of a thin blue line flag That was gifted to them in support of their service I am saddened and disappointed that our community leaders feel that the opinions of the community they represent Have become so divisive that we cannot post a picture of a flag Which is meant to support those who keep us safe on a daily basis And commemorate officers like mary lou who have died in so doing To the mayor and city council I implore you to represent the majority of citizens in santa rosa who respect and support the santa rosa police department uh Used our dog whistle to call up our dogs to make Comments and support of the police officers. I don't believe anybody. I know is a dog I also don't feel that just because you live in a certain area of santa rosa makes you a racist Which is something else that miss plumbing alluded to I would like to say that there were many people who called and commented and didn't say where they live Who are in support of the police officers? I am open to hear everyone's concerns and everyone's thoughts on this process But I think just as there should be no bias with the police officers There should also be no bias with our city council people and to have a clear And open mind to everything These are officers that were highly regarded. I don't think they're any different Today that they were three years ago. I think they still hold up and do a great job for our community Many of them Long to get to know their community to help their community. This is what they do. They've done this for years They have put family things on hold for their community and they continue to do that Thank you and have a good night Hello, my name is manual and i'm calling regarding agenda item 5.2 that's in blue line And i'm calling to voice my support for that in blue line and in particular to denounce Victoria Fleming's comments about The flag or anybody who supports that flag is being racist Looking at the recent past. You see people like Natalie corona Mary Lou armor and most recently Sacramento Sacramento deputy adam gibson Who's funeral the flag flew center stage behind the podium? This flag doesn't represent What people who demonize it Tend to make it out to be Those who are trying to deconstruct the flag and deconstruct law enforcement It means what it means to the people whom it represents which is law enforcement Which means the ultimate sacrifice that people like Mary Lou and Natalie and adam made and means Courage it means that they're standing between good and evil And they pay the ultimate price for what they do. So that's what it means to law enforcement and it's sad to see people like Victoria Fleming Demonize it and demonize officers and demonize anybody who Supports them and so I'd encourage City leadership and city council To have some courage To stand up for your troops to stand up for The people who are doing their best to protect the city And to support them as best you can Thank you Wanted to help thank you I'm My name is Greg and I'm calling regarding the thin blue line flag. I think it's 5.2 And I am a city employee and my brother Was killed in the line of duty and the thin blue line flag is a representation of the honor that he had We're giving his life to the community that he worked for And wanted to be a part of and wanted to help It gives us support as family and survivors from police departments from ordinary citizens That we will never forget The officers who've lost their lives in the line of duty Our officers who have given their lives Knew that that could someday happen and for you guys to show the lack of compassion is too outstanding and Very dismissive of the community members that support us that want to remember Not only my brother other officers who died And one of our very own Mary Lou Hernandez who gave her life in the line of duty All their lives are worth remembering and the way you guys talk and act Makes it feel for survivors And those effective that our lives do not matter And this gift that was given to the police department was a gift from the community And we should Thank the community for that. We should thank our officers and be supportive because our officers go Every part of the city to support any citizen or any person in our city My name is Aaron General item 5.2. I would like to comment on the thin blue line symbol I have many friends and family that serve in law enforcement I view the thin blue line flag as a representation of the sacrifices that are made on the daily basis to keep our community safe I couldn't imagine working in a field where I wasn't sure if I would make it home from work that day Because I was called to arrest a violent criminal who didn't want to surrender A perfect example is to be on the lookout that was sent out this week on a real white supremacist Who's reported to have an unknown amount of stolen firearms here in the north bay? We all rely on the police to take care of these tough situations Nowadays, I think they're taken for granted I hope we all remember that it hasn't just been the firefighters that work on an insane amount of hours during the last several years That's devastating wildfires Police from all over california have come up here to help protect our property from looters And drive around to alertness as those who don't have up-to-date technology or people who are unable to evacuate without assistance Um, I thank you for your time. And I hope you are taken and can just take this into consideration. Thank you Hello, my name is manual and I'm calling Hi, my name is Laura and I am calling sabbage and lime We're in the thin blue line and I'm calling boys by support to the thin blue line This is for item agenda 5.2. My name is terry and I live in district four. Uh, miss victoria plumbing district Our police department deserves the right to display the thin blue line symbol It represents the countless sacrifices and lives lost in the profession It represents sacramental county deputy sheriff adam gibson's life who's laid to rest on wednesday The larger issue related to the thin blue line symbol is ignorance and prejudice Some people need to be educated as to what the symbol stands for For not Not what others are making it out to be The underlying meaning of the symbol is solidarity and professional pride within a dangerous difficult profession And a solemn tribute to fallen officers The fact that some people in society want to morph the simple symbol into something it is not is wrong To add additional meanings to a symbol so that it fits an agenda is wrong The symbol was not a racist symbol or one devised to be divided It is there to honor and respect those who gave the ultimate sacrifice Some like victoria plumbing are just plain prejudice They see only what they want and ignore the whole miss plumbing has judged all members of law enforcement on a few acts Miss plumbing I live in your district. I am not from benet valley or rink and valley I am in your district and I would support our law enforcement How can you spew hatred and ignorance about those who called it in support of law enforcement racist Dogs and at the same time you completely discounted the tinos who called it in support of law enforcement You miss plumbing are part of the problem not the solution You and your rhetoric are driving groups apart not towards a common understanding You may be my council member, but you do not represent me Yes, this is bonnie maloof goodman calling regarding item 5.2 the thin blue line and i'm a native of santa rosa and Have witnessed many many changes Trying to eliminate the thin blue line is a slap in the face to all law enforcement everywhere Our community needs to stand behind the santa rosa pd They risk their lives daily for you and so don't let a handful of thugs dictate their pathetic needs And that's all it is. We need to stand behind the police department Support the thin blue line. It's for law enforcement everywhere their families the fallen It just needs to be supported. So please don't respect our police department Give them your support and keep that thin blue line. I always will. Thank you My name is susan hall agenda number 5 point 2 I'm a native santa rosen and I will support my police department in the thin blue line for fallen officers 100 These brave people put their lives on the line for us every day The very least we can do is stand beside them in support Only a disgusting city council would choose not to honor them and support them in every way If you have any emergency, who would you want coming to your rescue? I want my santa rosa police department Not the cowardly city council that hides behind their desk And makes disparaging remarks about a group of brave and dedicated people who protect and service The mayor and especially council member victoria fleming are a disgrace to this city They should never hold any office again I want to counsel that stands with my police department honors them and the thin blue line Thank you All right, my name is tom. I'm calling on agenda agenda item number 5.2 the thin blue line I just want to start off quickly by reading A brief history or with the definition of what the flag stands for to back up my later comments The stars and stripes of the american flag are in black and white There's a blue line that runs underneath the stars and the stars represent representative of the citizenry that the police protect And then the the darkness represents potentially anarchy chaos Or symbolizes the death of the death of law officers who have perished in the line of duty um, I think that's important because Nowadays we've seen in the current environment people have co-opted the symbol or different symbols throughout the nation to um, either Take over our request allies or or movements to further push their goals And I've also we've also seen you know the opposition of those uh Entities or groups trying to define what their their opposing symbol means to deflect hatred or put but unfortunate comments or Symbols or meanings towards those people It's it's kind of part of the campbell culture instead of listening and and understanding the two different sides and taking it all in and working for common ground It's it's become more of defining symbols as patriotic or I guess ways to to vilify your enemies and i'm sorry for Kind of stumbling along here. I'm not used to this process, but I just think it's really unfortunate that it's come to this time where um, a symbol of police officers who have potentially fallen in the line of duty or or just what their job is Today has now been created or turned into uh, such a unfortunate evil placeholder symbol for the opposition of What the country stands for and law and order? I think they're important members of society and I think they're people that need to be treated as such So I appreciate your time and thank you for listening My name is Peggy and this is in reference to the thin blue line agenda 5.2 I mean support of our law enforcement and the thin blue line symbol You need to stop thinking that you need to make changes or bow down to others when they are clearly misinformed And want to be offended by just about anything and everything anymore Enough is enough It's time to stand up for and support our law enforcement and the thin blue line The thin blue line represents courage strength Bravery and sacrifice Instead of removing the symbol because a few people are offended How about instead making a statement to the community and explain a true meaning and what it really does and has always stood for Show them that we won't allow them the power to disgrace it We won't allow them to make up new ignorant meanings for symbols that already have an established meaning and purpose A symbol that has always been positive by not supporting our officers in the thin blue line You are contributing to a divide in our community How do you intend to keep the officers? We do have and find more to join srpd when it's clear you aren't giving them the support that they deserve enough My name is jan cunningham, and I just wanted to comment on the thin blue line Being removed that flag and I just really appreciate the sensitivity that you guys are taking especially when it comes to police brutality and white supremacy I appreciate and or as I have lived for my whole life I'm just really glad that the police chief is taking it seriously. It's a really important topic And it's something that we all need to be sensitive to because this is a diverse population and My friends are people of color and I want to be sensitive to that topic And you should never change the flag and I'm really glad that you guys are taking it serious even though our police are the best and Maybe we don't have as much police brutality here, but we are taking it serious I'm really proud of our srpd for doing that. Thank you so much. Bye Hi, this is ryan speaking on i have number 5.2 I'm a law lifelong senator as a resident. I want to express my support for the senator as a police department I do not believe that it should be Defunded at all our city's following part of the seams with homelessness low quality life violence and crime The police department's an integral part of our city and we need to show them that we love them and so we support their work They also need to allow them to do their jobs effectively by giving them the tools training And the personnel that they need to do their job uh council Councilman victoria fleming is uh doing an incredibly poor job and representing her constituency and her city She knows that we are lucky to have such a hardworking and professional department And she thinks that they treat anyone within a kingdom anything but Uh dignity and respect and professionalism and she needs to go on a ride along and run the truth. So Thank you very much and I support the senator's police department Thank you, um for all of the public comment. Um, and thank you so much to um the zoom host for adjusting that for us So we are out of time for today. Um, I ask um the city attorney your advice on how we ought to To Should we continue this or should we adjourn the meeting? What is the the most effective way of stopping in the middle of something Um We've gotten through all the public comments, correct? That's correct Okay, so now it's if if the if the council members want to have an opportunity to discuss Then you should continue it to your next meeting Okay, um Let's continue it then So, um with that and do we know do we have a date yet for the next meeting? Or do you want to simply continue it to the next meeting when that meeting is Continue it to the next meeting and take it up when we have an agenda for additional items You feel like we worked through a lot of this and heard a lot of things and we can probably move on Yes, and I and I will just note for the public That because the public comment period has been completed there will not be an additional Comment period on this item at the next meeting Understood. Thank you. Um, okay. So with that, um having no additional items today Um, or no additional time today rather. I adjourn this meeting of the public safety subcommittee. Thank you very much for your time. Bye bye