 Hello everyone welcome to this enormous webinar with so I'm just sitting in my office talking to my camera it feels a little strange. Welcome to this this enormous webinar thanks to the Avala Institute for spiritual formation for helping us get the word out. But we are going to go pretty fast because there's a lot of information to cover and I want to make sure that we don't waste anyone's time who was kind enough and interested enough to join in with us today. Before we get started though and I want to also get to all the questions we had before we get started. I first want to welcome all of you to this webinar. I know it's it's an afternoon in the middle of the week. I was very, very felt blessed that so many people are interested in this issue and willing to give up their time your time to come and join us today. I have with us, of course, his Excellency Bishop Joseph Strickland, who is down the hall for me in his office. Hello, Bishop Strickland. Hello, Dr. Stacey. And, you know, he's, I'm the director of his Institute for catechesis and evangelization the St. Philip Institute. And we're here to have bishops back. We're, we're forming the teaching structure in his diocese and also reaching beyond the diocese to teach and evangelize with Catholics everywhere. This is an issue that Bishop Strickland is very passionate about. And if you follow him on Twitter, and if you don't, you should. And you, you know, if you follow him on Twitter that he's passionate about this, like so many people right now, this issue is just coming into the minds of the general public. Anyone who followed the childhood vaccine issue back in 2005 when the Pontifical Academy for Life gave us the instructions I had small children back then. So that's how I got to know Debbie vintage. We've been following this for some time but we have a unique opportunity in the middle of this COVID-19 crisis to right a wrong that's how we, that's how we refer to it writing a wrong that's been there for a long time a wrong the Vatican called on us to write. And so that's what we're trying to do. But if you haven't been following this issue for decades. You might not even know what it means to say that aborted remains are used in the development of vaccine. So that's the thing we want to clarify today. We want to make sure that everyone at least knows where to find the resources and to answer the basic questions so that more people feel confident about talking to others teaching and evangelizing on this issue so that if enough voices are out there, we can write this wrong and stand for truth in our society as decisions are being made as history is literally playing out in our time. So thank you for your interest in being here. Quick introductions then just to make sure everybody knows who everybody is. I'm Stacy Tresenko's director of the St Philip Institute, Debbie vintage is also on the camera. She is a very dear friend of mine, because of this issue because back in 2005 when I had small children I was a new convert I didn't actually I wasn't actually received into the church until 2006. But I was already open to the gift of life and thank the Lord I had four daughters and five years I have seven children total. I was trying my hardest to do with the church ask of me, and I wasn't sure where to turn like so many people are today I wasn't sure where to get reliable answers. And I found Debbie then, and as we'll explain in a minute and we get into the details more the Vatican said you may have to use the vaccines that are unethically produced in the moment, but you also have an obligation to speak up and I was very frustrated to speak up with a baby on my knee in the doctor's office, saying okay I'll get the vaccine but we really need to do something different it just felt like it fell on deaf ears and so ever since then I, I promised God that I would speak up whenever I got the chance to start writing about the issue. I became more and more trusting of Debbie's judgment in this matter, as I had questions, and kept turning to her and she, I have to warn everybody, Debbie doesn't just give you an answer to your question. She's two three ring binders full of information, and never since I have known her in all these years. Has she ever given me bad information she's given me links to scientific papers to federal documents to industry literature, and the chemist in me the chemist in me was always satisfied with what she sent me. She is in my opinion, the expert on this issue so we're privileged to have you here today. And I know everybody's just tickled that Bishop Strickland is here with us. So thank you both for being here. Thank you, Dr Stacy. I just want to thank you for that introduction and personally welcome those who care enough about life to be spending some time to learn more about the truth of this. I think it's, it's one of those inconvenient truths that it's easy to just sort of push it aside of that couldn't really be happening and this is just hyperbole. It's not. It's not. It's reality. And I feel the obligation to as a Bishop to do what I can to protect the sanctity of life, specifically for the unborn but really from conception to natural death. Before I get carried away talking, which I can, I want to just offer a prayer and a blessing for our efforts because prayer is the strongest tool that we have, especially turning to immaculate the immaculate Virgin Mary. So let me offer a blessing and then as any, you know, halfway smart man, I've got smart women that I'm working with, and they're going to mainly carry the ball. But as Bishop, I do want to ask God's blessing and the smartest woman of all the Blessed Virgin Mary to intercede powerfully for this effort because the world needs to wake up to to what has been done. What has been done so that we can stop it and begin truly being about the sanctity of life. So the Lord be with you. And your spirit. God, we ask your blessing for all gathered virtually for this very important effort to get to the truth to understand without hyperbole simply the reality of what we are dealing with and ignoring the beauty of the life that you offer us from conception to natural death. Thank you for all the individuals that are involved and I pray that each of them may be a seed of truth in their own sphere of influence to begin teaching the world this important truth about unborn children views and how we can stop it. How we can reverse this trend and how we can be always about the sanctity of life from conception to natural death. We gather on the day of St. Clair. May she intercede for us as a woman of great faith as a woman who knew the reality and the power of Jesus Christ and the Blessed Sacrament. We pray especially that the Blessed Virgin Mary might intercede for our efforts. Let us pray rosaries and pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary to honor the Immaculate Virgin Mary to be the mother of all humanity pleading for us to recognize the value of every person. May our efforts bear great fruit. We ask this blessing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you Bishop Debbie would you like to say hello to everyone. Well yes hi hello to everyone and I'm very very glad that you're joining us today and hopefully we'll get all of your questions answered there was a lot of them coming in and and it was kind of fun to go through them we saw a lot of duplicates out there didn't take see there were so many people asking the same thing so that that's good because that shows me that I have a lot more work to do. Yes. All right so I'm going to jump right in I have prepared just a short presentation I like to think of it like I'm standing up on a mountain top. Just pointing to a few things around the entire landscape there is much more information that we could get into but I want to give the general picture of the situation. And and I won't lie it's difficult for me to go through some of this stuff that the way I go at these bioethical issues. I am you know I guess it's true to the early church and St. Thomas Aquinas and the method the church has always used. I jump into the secular documents. Shielded in prayer and guarded by the truth. I jump into the secular documents because I want to see and to show to others what they in their own words are saying it's disturbing. But if you don't know then you can't you can't figure out what you're going to do it's part of practicing prudence in our time. All right. I need to share my screen. I'm assuming everybody can see the screen abortion and the COVID-19 vaccine answering questions. Okay, can we can we see Debbie can y'all see that. Yes. I know I can see it as make sure they out there can see it. All right. We got to I'm going to make this presentation available to everyone afterwards and so like I promised there's a lot of information here. I'm just going to go through it. I put three bullet points here just to give you the quick overview. The remains of aborted children and biomedical research. The first thing I want to impress on everyone. Many of you already know this some of you are just coming to this topic and may not realize it. This is not anything new. This is not anything that's just beginning. It's not something that we have to stop before it gets started. This is something that is ingrained in research throughout the world for many decades now. We can find literature going back as the early 1930s. Why is that the main reason for that is that's when scientific literature started being logged and shared. It doesn't mean there weren't there weren't these kind of experiments sooner but we can find it cited as early as the 1930s. In the much like times today the development of the polio vaccine. There were a board and I have some links I'm going to go to just let me go through these three points. There were abortions done on the feeble minded. There were government organizations that planned and organized this. That women who were termed feeble minded women who the organizations thought shouldn't be having children. There were four sterilizations. In some of those sterilizations there were abortions called hysterotomies that were done. A hysterotomy is kind of like a hysterectomy a word you might be more familiar with. In a hysterotomy it's like a C-section. They cut open the womb of the mother and they take the baby out through that incision. They can get an intact child out that way. There's a couple of reasons to do them that way. If you want a fully intact child so when a woman has a C-section of course that's what you want. You want the child to be safe but in a hysterotomy the reason is to keep the specimen intact so you don't tear it up going out the other way. The other reason is to sterilize the woman if you need to already get in there and sterilize so this was part of the forced sterilization. These babies in the literature were dissected while they were still alive. They were able to do if you're thinking like a scientist who wants to do this research you're doing research to find cures for humans. The best specimen is a human subject and one that's still alive that can be dissected and used French. And that was the thinking for doing this. And I'm going to show you this in just a minute and show you where you can read more about it. If you want to it's disturbing though and it's just in the scientific literature. In the development of infant formula another example these abortions were hysterotomies of mothers in good health. They were not done in the United States. They were done in Sweden. The reason for doing these experiments were that they were researching better ways to make infant formula for premature babies. So these mothers had hysterotomies done the mothers are under anesthesia they don't know what's going on and it's hard to imagine any woman would consent to this so maybe they didn't consent. They don't tell us. But in these abortions that the babies were taken out of the mother's womb but the umbilical cord was left intact. And amino acids were injected into the umbilical cord and the babies were held there for 10 minutes to allow the amino acids to be processed by the body so the scientists could determine if the premature baby needed those amino acids in the infant formula they were trying to develop. They cite in the literature that the hearts were still beating and babies were still moving during that experiment. That was in the 1970s. Since then. It's become considered ethical to use the bodies of aborted children. There've been over 50 million specimen if you want to consider the weight of legalizing abortion. The justification for using these children's bodies was that it is more ethical to use these specimen than to throw them away and ethicists have even not Catholic ones ethicists have even argued that it is immoral not to use these children's bodies for research to save the lives of the people who are wanted. I can hardly get through that without starting to shake myself because it's very it's very upsetting. If you want to see more about this. Debbie has written an essay. The link is here on the polio vaccine. It shows sites the literature where they were talking about doing these hysterotomy abortions. Human embryos of two and one half to five months gestation which we wouldn't call an embryo we call that a fetus we call it a child were obtained in a Toronto hospital here they were placed in a sterile container and promptly in the virus laboratory. Many of the embryos the heart was still beating at the time of receipt in the virus laboratory. I have in the. I have some of these papers that Debbie sites. I have them uploaded in the St. Philip Institute website. So that you can see them. This one's not moving. Here we go. The research for the polio vaccine was it won the Nobel Prize in medicine and physiology. This was not hidden. This was stuff that that was hailed as success in the scientific community. And you can see right here in the talk that was given to accept the Nobel Prize. They're talking about it. The decision was taken to use a mixture of human embryonic skin and muscle tissue. The tissue was taken from the extremities because they were checking the polio vaccine to see if it grew in tissues that had that that had nerves versus tissues that didn't have nerves they were looking for good ways to grow the polio vaccine. So they use a number of different tissues and test and liver kidney adrenal brain heart spleen and lung. So that is, again, in the scientific literature. This is a 1980 review of infectious diseases. There's another one milestones and early polio research 1840 to 1949 it references the 1930 experiments that Debbie talks about in her essay. This one is in nature, pediatric research nature is nature and science journal are to the two most prominent science journals in the entire world. And both of those magazine both of those journals talked about this research that I was talking about with research for infant formula they were studying whether this amino acid is an essential amino acid. In human fetuses, and they say right here in the paper, the amino acid was injected into the umbilical cord of six human fetuses. During the period the heart continued to beat and spontaneous movement was seen. Let's talk about before in the method section about the in vivo experiments here that they in vivo experiments each fetus immediately after removal from the uterus was injected with the amino acids. And they waited 10 minutes before severing the cord close to the fetus. And as much blood as possible was collected into a tube the fetal organs were quickly removed and dropped into liquid nitrogen so they could prepare them for study. So they literally use these children's bodies while they were still living as machines to process amino acid so they would know what to put an infant formula for pre term children. In the 1970s, that continued. I got this book before it disappeared. The same man who wrote that paper was hired by the Nestle Corporation, the chocolate milk Nestle Corporation to hold a conference on their findings to develop the infant formula and I have the proceedings from the Nestle nutrition series. So when we get to the present day, and we talk about aborted children and COVID-19 vaccine development, we are not entering this as something new. There are scientists out there today who have spent their entire careers doing this kind of research and they're not going to let it go easily. They don't think they should. And that's kind of the fight that's going on right now. For some specifics about what's happening, there are two main, and Debbie can say more about this, two main aborted fetal cell lines that are being used in the COVID-19 vaccine development. They're HEK 293. That is a human embryonic kidney. The specimen number was 293. The abortion was performed in the Netherlands. It was kidney tissue, and we don't know anything else about the child. P-E-R-C-6. It's documented that, and all of these documents are on Debbie's website, the Children of God for Life. The mother wanted to get rid of the fetus. The father was unknown. It was the 16 to 18 week gestation retinal tissue. Those are cell lines. Now, what a cell line is, it's, you hear people say, well, it doesn't matter. We can use the vaccine today because those children were aborted decades ago, and they're not doing any new abortions today. And so it's sad that we're in this situation, but we can still use them. These cell lines, that's only part of the story. These cell lines are, these cells are taken from these fetuses, and their cell lines meaning those cells taken. So they're not tissues, they're not entire brains or hearts or liver like we were talking about in the other ones. These are just cells taken from some tissues, and those cells being so young and not fully differentiated yet can multiply over time. So they're a medium in which the vaccines are grown. But that is not the only way aborted children are used in vaccine development. That's only part of the story. Moderna, many of you asked questions about that, and we will have more information on that. Moderna is an mRNA spike protein. Moderna says on its website, messenger RNA or mRNA plays a fundamental role in human biology, transferring the instructions stored in DNA to make the proteins required in every living cell. Moderna's approach is to use the mRNA medicines to instruct a patient's own cells to produce proteins that fight off COVID-19. So the mRNA is telling the body how to fight the COVID-19. So if you take this virus, you're getting mRNA into your body, it's going to tell your cells what to do and how to fight the virus if it comes to you. So it literally does change what's happening in your own body. Moderna has used mRNA for a long time. They've done research with it to know avail. They haven't found a successful vaccine using mRNA. And you will hear some Catholics, some Catholic ethicists, theologian, scientists say that Moderna's mRNA spike protein is ethically produced because Moderna buys the spike protein from another company. Moderna itself doesn't use aborted fetal cell lines. The thing is they buy the spike protein from another company and they know that other company produces the spike protein with the HEK 293 cell lines. So we disagree that it's ethical, that Moderna's vaccine is completely ethical. And the last thing is the vaccine testing. So not just the aborted fetal cell lines, not just the components in the vaccine itself like the mRNA, but also in the testing afterwards. Humanized mice are being used. And I wrote a summary of this situation for the National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly in their summer issue that just came out, summarizing the situation. But today, right now, 15 state attorneys general have signed a letter asking the president and his administration to allow humanized mice to be used in vaccine testing to hurry up this COVID-19 vaccine development. What is humanized mice? A human, and the link is right here in the heading, humanized mice to make them, they take, so people say there are no fresh abortions done for this research. Yes, there are. They buy, the producers buy these aborted bodies from the abortion facilities and they make arrangements to get them right away because they need them fresh. And they take lung tissue out of the baby. They dissect the baby and cut a little piece of lung tissue and they insert it in a baby mouse under the skin subcutaneously. And they allow that piece of human tissue to grow in the mouse for a time and it grafts into the mouse and there's a little bump on the mouse's back where you can feel it. That's how they monitor it. And what happens is the human tissue grows and produces all these different kinds of cells that are found in the human lungs. It's not just one kind of cell. We have many different kinds of cells in the human lungs. And then they use these mice that are humanized with lung tissue as test subjects. So when they have a new vaccine, they test it on the mouse to see if the mouse is inoculated from the COVID-19 vaccine. So they're producing these mice to be used. President Trump has said that won't be funded anymore, but state attorneys general are petitioning that it will be funded. The scientific community is promoting that the funding comes back. And even, you know, just to give you an idea of the scope of it in 1993 Congress legalized the practice of using fetal tissues, and it's grown ever since about 115 million in federal funding was spent in 19 on 173 projects in universities that use tissues taken from aborted fetuses. So any support of using the remains of aborted children in a vaccine in a COVID-19 vaccine, which is going to be globally available to everyone. Any support of this at all is only furthering this terrible situation that we find ourselves in today. So quickly now I want to go through what the Vatican has said about listed cooperation in evil. Okay, so that that's a confusing word. And this is what parents are told when they take their babies to get a vaccine and you're told that the only MMR vaccine available was grown using a fetal cell line, are you going to vaccinate your child, or are you not. And the Vatican said, we parents may vaccinate our children using those vaccines if it's the only alternative and it's necessary to protect the rest of the public and to protect the child. And the Vatican also said, we have to protest it, which is what we're doing now. Let me explain the terminology. What does it mean to have listed that means permissible cooperation in evil, because that doesn't seem to make sense here, here's how it's explained. Cooperation can be material or formal formal cooperation means that you are actually making the decisions to do it, it means you support using the aborted children and research, and you're ready to plan experiments and funded and you're all in your you're in support of it. Material means you in some way are using the materials from it, even if you don't necessarily formally approve of it. Material cooperation then meaning that you're cooperating by using the products even if you don't agree with them being produced. Material cooperation can be done either immediate or immediate immediate means direct immediate directly immediate would be like the people who are making the decisions to use it even if they're not actually touching the material the materials. It is indirect, meaning you're using your buying the materials but you didn't make any of the decisions and you didn't touch any of the development. Immediate material cooperation is always proximate meaning close you are close to the situation, you're making decisions. Immediate material cooperation can either be proximate or remote and this is all in the Pontifical Academy for Life document. The research and development people are formal formal cooperation that is wrong. It's immoral it's unethical. The people who participate in immediate proximate material cooperation like the manufacturing and the marketing people who support this also wrong. To doctors and parents, parents, not parents, over here and immediate material cooperation, you can be more proximate and you can be more remote. So when the Vatican says the parent sitting with the baby on her knee in the doctor's office, you're the most remote, immediate meaning indirect material because you're using the vaccine you're using the material cooperation and evil. So it is the most remote, your father is removed from it as you can doctors are a step closer doctors are actually also involved in making the decisions to buy these vaccines from the manufacturers and the marketing so they're they're not as remote as the parents are. But that's how we that's how we think about the different responsibilities here and that's what the Vatican means when the parents. When they have no alternative. We have a grave responsibility ability to use alternative vaccines and to make a conscious conscientious objection with regard to those which have moral problem those vaccines which have moral problems. If there's no alternative. It is lawful to use the vaccine. If there is a serious risk for your own child, or perhaps the population as a whole, but it should not be missed this lawfulness should not be misinterpreted as a declaration of the lawfulness of the marketing and use. It is a passive material cooperation, and in its remotest sense, also active, it's morally justified as a extreme rato, the necessity to provide the good of one's children what that means is when I was sitting in the doctor's office with my child and I said, you have to make a decision and I allowed my child to be vaccinated with a vaccine that I knew was produced using the remains of an important child. I sat there in tears, angry that I had to be put in this position, but you can tell the doctor. I suppose this and as many parents can tell you, it kind of falls on deaf ears because the doctor just heard you say okay I'll accept the vaccination, you vaccinate the child, go on with your life you try to protest it you try to speak up. It doesn't do much good and that's kind of where things were left in 2005. It's been a long way since then, but we always have a responsibility a grave responsibility to use alternative vaccines where they are when we have them and to express an outcry against this moral coercion of the conscience of parents forced into this position. And it must be eliminated as soon as possible. I'm explaining that because today in the COVID-19 vaccine situation. We are not parents in a doctor's office, helpless, trying to make a decision. We are part of the decision today. Our voices on social media with our friends and family can be heard by the pharmaceutical industry and the government officials who have to make decisions. They can be heard just like Bishop Strickland said on Twitter. I won't kill children to live. And the reason we're talking about this right now is none of us want to be a year from now with a COVID-19 vaccine produced, tested and sold all over the world and maybe even mandated who knows we don't know, but if it is mandated. And if we're a year from now and that vaccine is mandated that was developed using the remains of aborted children, and we're all in a position where we might have to accept it because there's no other alternative. If we didn't speak up when we had the chance which is now, then we did not do our responsibility. We did not take the responsibility serious so that's why that's why we're talking about now that's why I'm so grateful that all of you are here. Okay, that what I just presented is to answer it's in response to a lot of the questions we got. I now have a series of questions up here and I'm going to ask Debbie and Bishop Strickland to chime in here. We got over. I stopped counting at 80 but they were still coming in this morning we got about 80 questions from a lot of people and a lot of them were very similar to others so I've tried to pull some representative questions. But if you feel like your question didn't get answered satisfactory email us and let me know and we'll get you an answer and point you to where you can go. I want to show you whoops. I want you to know that in answer to the question about which vaccines are being are produced using which COVID-19 vaccines are being developed with aborted children which are not Debbie has a list on the website and I'll pull it up here in a minute when I stop talking. But Debbie vintage is the woman who wrote I mean she's my hero. She's the woman who wrote to the pontifical she wrote to the Vatican back in 2005 before 2005 but when they issued the letter with this guidance, they were writing to her. Okay, so that's who she is she she followed through with this all the way to the top and said we need guidance and they gave her this guidance and she's been following it ever since then that's why I say she is the best expert on this issue. Okay, now to some of the questions and I'm going to put some information up. Question number one. In the event of vaccine mandate for all is instituted by the state because I know that's all on all our minds. Without possibility of exemption and the vaccine is morally acceptable unacceptable. Would the faithful be right to resist this mandate. Are there any conditions where it would be acceptable to accept this vaccine. Debbie do you want to answer that one. Well, I can tell you right now. Stacy that I can answer this if it was me that was going to be put in this position for example okay. Would I accept a vaccine that was produced using abortive fetal cell lines. If there was nothing else out there and the answer for me would be no. And there's more reasons and one for that. Okay, that might my first the first most obvious reason is and you touched on this earlier. Let's let's assume it's Moderna. And because that seems to be the most popular one out there right now and happens to be one using the fetal cells. Number one Moderna's technology that they're using MRNA has never ever been used in a vaccine successfully anywhere in the world. So it's brand new technology that's number one. To date, in the history of vaccine production and testing, there has not been a single vaccine that ever came to market in five or six months, you know, or a year even the the shortest period of time was four years. That was months. Every other vaccine takes at least five to six years. So you're putting out a vaccine here that has improper testing that uses abortive fetal cells. I don't think that the obligation to put yourself in danger as a test experiment for a pharmaceutical company is something you have to do. You know, there are other ways that you can protect yourself and those are things that I think we would look into. I just think this is very dangerous, very dangerous. I'll chime in and I think it's fairly obvious from my tweets, but I would not accept such a vaccine. I think whether I mean the question was, I think morally, whether it would be permissible, could a person who wants to be faithful to Christ and his teachings in the sanctity of life. Can they accept such a vaccine? I think it's, it's definitely takes you into dangerous territory. And I think Debbie alludes to some of just the very rational scientific reasons. It's probably marginally effective. Who knows what long term consequences it may have. And certainly, so all of those are real moral issues. I mean, our bodies are gifts from God. Mine is, yours is every human being. That's what we're talking about. So we have an obligation to care for our own lives and to not recklessly allow anything into our bodies that is going to be harmful. So they're, they're probably multiple reasons why I would say no, I'm not going to accept a vaccine that for one thing, you're injecting another person's DNA into your body. What does that do to you? It definitely must have consequences that I'm no scientist, but I think all that does need to be considered. But truly, my fervor with all of this really just sort of tries to capture everything we heard from the 1930s to 2020. We have been on this track of disrespecting the life of the unborn and using them and I mean, it sounds to me, it's not ironic that it or it is ironic, I guess, but it's not maybe it's tragically diabolically unreasonable in a sad way. When did this develop in the 1930s? What else was going on in the 1930s? Hitler and Nazis and using people for lampshades? That's, that's not just made up stories. We all know the atrocities of Nazi Germany. And sadly, I think those atrocities are something that have infected the human reality since then. So if it would, and I would be relying on Debbie and to accept a vaccine, you're going to have to really show me that this came from caterpillars or this came from some other source, because frankly like the Moderna, I think that where we find ourselves with so much misinformation, so much fake news, so much distortion, I would recommend as one bishop, and I don't have a lot of supporters, but among the bishops, but, you know, to me, it is, it is one of the critical issues of our age. And if we fold on the idea, oh, well, it's, it's remote enough, and there aren't other alternatives. I'm simply not going to accept a vaccine that can't be very well vetted and that I can hear is truly has an ethical production from the very beginning. I'm skeptical about being able to prove that, but that's the only kind of vaccine I'm going to accept. And I think we need to stand up for life and simply say, that's, you know, to just if enough voices tell the governments and the everyone who has power over this, if we stand up and say, I won't accept something that has been used, developed by using the lives of others that were given life by God as I was. And so, talking too long, I apologize, but I get a little overheated by all of this. But I think we've got to put our foot down collectively as believers, and where does life come from. And the science and the religion and all of the ethical aspects we've got to demand as the 2005 letter from the Vatican basically said we have to get busy demanding alternatives. And from what Debbie has said, the alternatives are there. I think one of the main things that I hope we can do is I think an awful lot of people, including a lot of people wanting to be faithful Catholics and believing in the sanctity of life. I think a lot of people are discounting this vaccine issue, whether it's COVID-19 vaccine or the vaccines that are presently being used for our children. I think a lot of people are discounting it as fake news, as something that a few people, it's hyperbole. I think we've got to cut through that and let people know real human beings have been slaughtered in order to use their parts to produce these vaccines. And we've got to demand a stop to it. I don't care who calls me crazy or who, you know, says, oh, you're overreacting, or the morally proper thing to do is just kind of keep pushing this under the rug and in pretending that it's okay because it would just be too disruptive to society to bring this issue into the light. So, hogwash, as far as I'm concerned, it's hogwash, and I know I'm not being very academic and, but I get overheated about this like I said, so I'll be quiet, but my simple answer, I will not. They can take me to jail, they can shoot me. I'm not going to accept a vaccine that I can't be proven is not sacrificing another person's life so that I can live and, you know, I'll hush. I'm going to go ahead, Debbie, but I'm just letting everybody know I'm going to put to jump off of what Bishop just said. I'm going to put Debbie's website up here because a lot of questions we got were how do we know which ones are being developed ethically and which ones are not what's what I'm doing everyone. Children of God for life.org COG for life.org vaccines. COVID-19. Go ahead, Debbie. Before you do. Whoops. That's okay. Where you just were on that screen, go drop down there again. The second one down is the vaccine chart. See that that if you click on that, you'll notice there's COVID-19 development. So you can click on it from there too. So a lot of times somebody's going in and they want to find if a certain vaccine uses aborted fetal cells or not. So they go to this chart. So if you happen to do that, you're going to get the COVID information from here too. So that's all I just wanted to point both out. So go ahead down there you go. Yeah, and so either place. And debt. No, like I said, Debbie gives you links with information. You're going to need you're going to use set aside like half a day to go through all this. You have to do that because people, the first thing you tell someone just like Bishop Strickland just said, and he's so right. Oh, that's impossible. They can't use aborted babies. It's impossible. That's baloney. That's not true. For the last 20 years of the work that I've been doing in this issue, I have documented everything to prove. I don't, you know, I can read something. And in science journal, and I guarantee you that the all the information on that science journal and if there's a hyperlink to it online, it's going into my computer. I saved everything because of the very fact I knew what I can tell you this for people out there who don't know this about me. It was in year 2000 when Children of God for Life was formed because of this issue specifically, and it was because as a mom. I knew my when I read this article that said abort fetal cells were used in certain vaccines and it was put out by one of the Catholic newspapers and when I read it, I was horrified because I didn't know and I knew that my children had some of those vaccines and I thought as a parent I had a right to know. And so that's really, well, there was a lot more involved in that a lot of like, I can't do this Lord, you know, kind of effort, but I, I, of course, I caved into the Lord and did what I knew I had to do. But in any, any event, the information needs to be known for the people that say, you know, maybe I do want a vaccine, so I still I can say this to whether it's morally produced or not I do, I am very, very, very much against using a vaccine in the next couple of months, or, you know, by the end of the year or early 2021 only because of the danger involved in the technology. There is, for example, on this list if you go down the yellow on the left hand side are the ones that are morally produced, and in font on the other side. There's a vaccine that's put out by. Oh, now I'm going to forget the name of the. Oh, it's bio and tech. It's on the last page bio and tech and Pfizer, and they are using mRNA also, but they instead of using the ATK abortive fetal cell lines for their RNA to do for the proteins they used what's called the K 562 cells. These, this came from an adult female cancer patient who made the decision to donate some of her cells for research purposes so this is a morally obtained cell line and it's a human cell line so that's, you know, that's in bio and tech favor. If you are really excited about the mRNA vaccines, I personally have a lot of concerns about those vaccines. I think we'll get into that a little bit later and some of the other information. So she's clicking on these links. I in some cases I've downloaded the patents. I've downloaded information. In fact, very, very recently, I was challenged a lot on Moderna's use of abortive fetal cells. You can go right in on their website under publications, and they have two beautiful new documents up one is dated July 2020 and one is dated July, August 2020. I'll go up to the top, and you'll see publications we'll see it up there and then yeah right there click on publications. And as you go down here it is July 2020 and there's another one down low further that's August 2020. But when you click on this, it's going to take you to the New England Journal of Medicines. mRNA article all about how they did this. You can go through it and there's supplemental information is where you'll find the information on the supplementary appendix and then you go through. It's a lot of research to do, but you can go through this information and find where they're using the ATK 293. There you go. It's easier when you download it, which is what I do I download it and then I can do a search function on it from my computer I love doing it and I can see how many times I mean one of Moderna's just to give you an example one of Moderna's papers that they have done because they've been doing this type of vaccine research for many years. And one big data back in 2015 show the use of the ATK 293 Abordinate Petyl-Somine 76 times it's brought up in the document in their patents so it's not something when someone says no it's not no it's not true yes it is it's very true it's been black and white. So I just wanted to bring that up because it's like been a thorn in my side face there and it's in black and white. Yeah and you can all verify it anyone can verify it for yourself and I do I mean as much as I trust Debbie I always check because I'm a you know what if Debbie misses something. And I want to let her know but you can click on these and I just do a control F on my computer and you can search 293 if that's what you're looking for and and you'll see that they they use something they called it a little bit different in the paper that I just looked up. Yeah, that's right. But EXPI 293. Yes, it's a modified HKK. Yeah, and you can you can just highlight that and start look it up and if you look it up on the computer. You'll see that those are the HKK 293 cells sometimes they change the name of them in their catalogs the industry that sells them they change the name sometimes, but the key is 293. That's right, because that's the name. Yeah, human embryonic kidney. Okay. Let's go to the next question. This, there were a lot of questions along the lines of this, like, would we be, is there any condition where it would be acceptable. If it were already developed and it was a critical need, there was a need to protect yourself and the population. And then it said that it would be lawful in those very narrow circumstances but we're not at that point right now. We have a chance to say, give us an acceptable alternative and if enough people say what Bishop Strickland said the industry will listen and it already is Debbie could you could you tell them a little bit about what happened already with the one wrong that was righted about the company who is actually using ethical sources now. Sure. It's actually it's bigger than this but let's start with a small news which was this one so no he passed your. I actually found this out on a complete fluke but someone had called and said something's wrong. You know there's something going on so no he passed your has a new vaccine that's using Vero cell lines, which is monkey cells not not fetal in their polio and I said that's impossible. It's not. It's impossible. So I went in to pull up the package insert and low and behold it was updated December 2019. And there was links to the record actually go in and look at the FDA paperwork where they submitted the request to switch from a board of fetal cell lines back to using Vero cell lines which are used in other polio vaccines. They're morally produced. You could stop right there. I think if you go on. Yeah, you're looking at pencil. So that's good stuff on the first page anyway, if you go down to the section that gives the description. You'll you'll find it up. That's okay. Anyway, it said December 2019 and the very first page, but when you get down to description. You would find the use of the Vero cells there and there is the letter that was sent December 19. Yeah, so nice. Yeah, and that was a wonderful thing that they've done. In the meantime, they've also done on the COVID vaccines. This is really a big deal. So no fee past or recently in the last few years anyway purchased a company called protein sciences protein sciences was a company that I loved. We want them to make moral vaccines for everything we wanted them to make chicken pox and everything we could we talked to them at length. They were really just kind of starting up and they were focusing on flu vaccines first and that's where what their goal was. And they did put flu vaccines on the market using caterpillar cells they didn't need to use chicken eggs which is good because chicken eggs take a long time to hatch and grow and that's what always is a mess up on. I'm getting a timely vaccine on the market so the company said well let's you know some of them wanted to try to use the border fetal cells for flu vaccine that fell apart. And they they continued to use moral cell lines for flu. Well so when Sonofi Pasteur bought out protein sciences, they also inherited their technology. And so what the good news is is going forward. They have teamed up with Glaxo Smith Klein and they are going to be producing the COVID-19 using those insect cells. This is a tremendous thing for them to have done. It's also tremendous that Sonofi and Glaxo Smith Klein which are two of the three largest pharmaceutical companies in the country and probably the world have chosen the moral route. The number one of the other one of those three is Merck and they have also chosen the moral route. Don't pay attention to Stacey right there, back up, back where you were. Merck is listed, says Merck, Germany that's not the same as Merck USA so I don't want to confuse people when you look at the list. But if you go down, keep going down, you'll come to the Merck vaccine. There it is, right there. And what they did is Merck actually used a unique platform in making their Ebola vaccine. They are the only company in the United States to have the Ebola vaccine approved. It was approved in February of 2020. And it uses the viral cell lines. So we're really excited that we have all three of the biggest companies on our side. Yes. And you'll notice there are, if you're counting them and you can also see the list is longer. There are more companies trying to produce ethical COVID-19 vaccines than there are in the bad guys column. That's right. So that is good news. That is a reason to all the more keep speaking up because it does make a difference. That's right. Let's look at another. I know we spent all that time on that one question. Here's another question. Quickly, if I was given my normal childhood vaccines and had no idea whether the vaccine was made with products of aborted children, am I culpable? The answer is no. There were several questions like this. You're not, and the parents would have had to know what they were doing to have even been culpable. However, the Pontifical Academy for Life does tell us, as Debbie points out, we have a grave responsibility to use alternatives and to demand alternatives. So we can't, I mean, when you hear some people talk about this issue, the feeling that it seems to be, they, and they do say this a lot. I mean, Science Journal published an opinion piece just last month saying, I don't know why people are getting so upset about using fetal cell lines and in the development of the COVID-19 vaccine because the Vatican already said it's okay. That's not what the Vatican said. They didn't say that, and you'll hear Catholics say that as well, beware, because that's kind of a, it might be the easy way out, but you know, the truth is the easy way out, even if it seems harder in the moment. Well, God doesn't care about the easy way out. No, really. No. And in the long term, the easy way is the right way, but it may not be in the short term. Are there actions being taken to eliminate the use of fetal cells in future vaccine developments? We just covered that, and there's a link there that you can read that essay that Debbie wrote in more depth. Where do I find accurate Catholic up-to-date information? We had many, many, many questions wanting to know, and so again, go to that vaccine list that is right here. This is not just, notice that it says updated August 7th. She does update it regularly. I can just picture you getting up in the morning and doing a literature search and updating your document. So that's the answer to that. Next question. Bishop, you may want to chime in here. We had a lot of questions like this, so I do want to give some air to this concern. Why doesn't the church as a whole speak out on the moral issue? Well, first of all, the Vatican has given us very clear guidance. It's just that some people don't give the full story. All that I went through with the remote, listed, cooperation, immediate cooperation in evil, we've been given clear instructions. If there's no other alternative, yes, keep your child and your population safe, but you can't be done there. You can't just walk away and say, hey, the Vatican said it's okay. You have to demand ethical alternatives. Debbie has on the Children of God for Life website a whole page with links about documents that have come out since 2005 and conversations going on more theological consideration. The USCCP recently urged the FDA to develop ethical vaccines. The Catholic Medical Association has spoken out about this and Bishop Strickland also has a letter and all these are links that you can get to. But Bishop, did you want to say more about this? Yes. As you indicate, the church has spoken and it really is not a controversial issue. As far as the church is concerned, it's very clear. But we live in a time when clear truth can easily not be put out there, even in the St. Philip Institute. Some of our videos have not been taken down from social media because we're living in a time where it's hard to get to the truth. And it's very complicated, but I think that the church has spoken out. The church certainly needs to speak out more. And honestly, as a Bishop, I think we have to acknowledge that the authority of the church has been undermined and I see that as part of a whole pattern that fits with, you know, the issue of using children, aborted children to produce medicines, vaccines, cosmetics, whatever. The church is not in a strong place right now. The truth of Christ is as strong as ever. The light of Christ is as bright as ever, but the church has been weakened by the abuse scandal, which is a scandal. Many people, Catholic and not, when I speak out the first responses, well, why should I listen to you? You're one of those Catholic bishops who's allowed children to be abused. Even when I've spoken out directly about this issue of having vaccines that have used aborted children, many times people will respond. Why should I listen to you? You're just about abusing children, which is, you know, that it's not accurate. The vast majority of bishops and priests are about the sanctity of life, but sadly, the church is, I think a word is beleaguered at this moment. But, you know, we can get into what has caused that. I honestly believe a lot of compromise, and it's easy to compromise. And kind of like you said with parents that just say, well, you know, the Vatican said it's okay. Actually, the Vatican said this, if you just have to, it's remote participation. If there's no other alternative. But if you take that path, then you're morally obligated to fight against it and to demand ethical vaccines for children and for people. I think that's where, in our modern world, the moral fabric of things has been weakened. Just because I'm a sinner, we all are. And in too many people are ignoring the reality of sin in the world today. So there's a whole, I like to use the image of a machine. There's a whole machine that is, that we're fighting. And that machine has affected the church, for sure, because the church is made up of human beings. It's holy, guided by the Holy Spirit, but it's made up of human beings, very fallible people like myself. And it's easy for us to compromise and then compromise again and then compromise one more time. And we find ourselves in the dark. We find ourselves having compromised ourselves away from the light of Christ. Thankfully, and I would want to emphasize as people are listening and maybe outraged and maybe despairing, we should never despair. The church is about light and truth and joy. But we have a responsibility to share that light and truth and joy with every child that's conceived, with every person that's been born, with every person that is still alive until natural death. That's a huge mandate that God has given us, but we have to joyfully embrace it. So I would encourage everyone listening to when working, wondering, why isn't the church been more clear? Well, certainly the church could have been more clear. What the church has said is accurate and needs to be listened to, and certainly needs to be repeated. Hopefully, at some point, we'll get an update to the 2005 letter that Debbie worked so hard to get an answer. It's an answer. And it gives some basic moral guidance for how do we navigate an evil and broken world. But one of the things that hasn't happened, the way I'm sure Debbie wishes it has, is a resounding cry from Catholic people, from people who believe in the sanctity of life. It shouldn't be just Catholics, but everyone who believes that life comes from God and it's sacred from the moment of conception. If all the people who believe that would finally speak up, whether it's a bishop or it's a mom and a pew or it's a dad or it's a single person, whether it's a young person or an old person. If all who believe that life is sacred would finally join our voices. And I think that's what this is about, a grassroots effort to say, we wish this wasn't true. It's horrible, as Dr. Stacey said, to go through some of this and to be reminded that living, functioning human children were used and basically dissected in vivo. As they were alive, I mean, it doesn't get more mad scientist and evil than that, but that's part of the story. And again, that shouldn't suck the joy out of us. It shouldn't suck the energy, but it should charge us even more forcefully with saying, we will not sit by and allow this to just continue and say, well, there are other things to be addressed because we're too focused on helping people survive COVID-19. We need to just get a vaccine of whatever kind. I say no, we have to stand up and say this is what we believe in and trust that the light of Christ is with us. And if enough voices speak out, even the most atheistic big pharma company that could care less about the sanctity of life, there's something called the, you know, the almighty dollar that people do pay attention to. And so another, I'm sorry, long winded answer, but I would say yes, the church has spoken and spoken accurately. Certainly the church needs to continue to speak out in this country and around the world. And really, as is COVID-19, it's a global issue. It's not just something for the American bishops or something for this group or that group. All I can do is speak out and try to educate the people of the diocese of Tyler and beyond as is possible. But all of us collectively just acknowledging that this is a real evil and doing our best to speak up against it. We have to trust that the light of Christ in its power, the greatest power on earth is Jesus Christ. His light will bring about healing and strength and a more life respecting future for the people of God. But we have to demand, I think that's the proper word, we have to demand that life be respected as COVID-19 vaccines are being developed and looking at the whole vaccine issue. We demand that thankfully Debbie's done the work and thankfully some big companies are already on board. But I know that all of us would love to see that report updated so that one day there are no, no longer are aborted children being used for any vaccine for anything. I mean hopefully, you know, we stopped the abortion period, but certainly we don't make the further crime against humanity to use the aborted children. The child's been killed or about to be killed and to use them for our purposes. That's truly diabolical. So let's work toward a time where that the two sides of that the two columns, the bad column just disappears and all the efforts that are the wonderful science that God has given us. One of the efforts are about using ethical means to bring vaccines and medications and things that help humanity that help the poor that help all kinds of issues in humanity that are ethical and not built on the backs of other people other children that never had a chance to breathe, you know, to, to work toward that and to trust that my one voice and our single voices collectively can make a difference. Thank you Bishop. I'm going to go to the next question. We had several questions about the mRNA that Moderna uses we and I, you know, I, I put the things in the opening presentation to answer most of the questions in general. The mRNA is not being used in all vaccines. This Debbie was explaining this. It, it's not being used in all the vaccines that are being developed for COVID-19. And it can be done morally using the K 562 cells from an adult female donor. So I want to make sure that everybody has that answer. And here's some other language that we see the Vatican has exonerated Catholics from any guilt and taking the vaccines that have been derived from the Board of Babies. Why regarding the COVID-19 vaccine can we refuse it based on religious grounds. So we are not exonerated from our duty to protest to end this injustice. And I just want to turn it around a little bit because here we sit today, August 11, 2020. And abortion is legal in our country. And it might seem like, well, how are we going to stop them if the rationale and I had this book linked early and one of the earlier slides. This is a book from the 1970s, 1975, but it explains the ethics from their viewpoint. This is not a Catholic book. But it explains the ethics and like I said, the ethics are in their minds. If abortions legal, and you're going to have all these millions of babies being aborted specimen. The moral thing to do is to use them more than to throw them away. That that's what they say. That's not what I'm saying. That's what that's what is said sometimes. And you might think, well, if abortion is legal, that sounds like the real issue. It sounds like using fetal tissues and fetal cells and research is never going to end until abortion ends. True. But it could also be the other way. If we protest enough and enough pharmaceutical companies like Bishop said disappear from the bad guy column and appear in the good guy column because we're speaking out that that's what we will use. We won't use the other ones. Then people will be more aware that, hey, these are children that are being killed. This is wrong. This is not what our society should stand for. And in our protest and the movement of these pharmaceutical companies in the right direction could cause our whole country to start to move in that direction. So it does get bigger than just the vaccine issue. Oh, I was just going to add something Stacy that I first should have brought this up earlier but in the church speaking out one of something that happened to two years ago. It was 2018 actually when Glaxo Smith Klein produced the first moral shingles vaccine we have had to live with a board of fetal shingles vaccine and chicken pox vaccine. Day one, for instance 1995 Merck did it, and they were had no competition and all of a sudden we came out. Glaxo Smith Klein came out with this morally produced vaccine. And what happened is as a result, we went to the US Conference of Bishops office and said look, this is exactly what we have wanted. We need to let them know how grateful we are that they have stopped and have chosen to use a moral so on and and ask them to produce a moral chicken pox vaccine as well. So we petitioned everyone we went to FDA we went to. I mean sorry to the Catholic Medical Association, the US CCB. And at the time, it wasn't Archbishop Norman that was there was Cardinal Dolan, and he agreed this letter should go out to all diocese in the country asking them to write and thank Glaxo Smith Klein. I know that in Florida, the entire Florida bishops did it. And as a result, we're hearing, and this is rumor, but we're hearing that this is the route that Glaxo Smith Klein will take in the future for all vaccines, because they appreciate it they can see what's happening. And, and from as a result of them doing that and I think for those people out there who have never heard me bring out this wonderful fact. In 2017 Merck sales of their shingle vaccine was 422 million. In 2018 after Glaxo took the market in January and began with their moral that at the end of 2018 Merck's total sales dropped to 20 million. That's a loss of over $400 million in sales in one year. And if you don't think Merck got that message loud and clear and Glaxo Smith Klein did think again they certainly did. And I was about to bring up the dollar issue because I think it's, it's part of the sinister machine that abortion is at the center of. There's a lot of money in abortion. And we know that organizations profit from that. You know, it may not be the most pure ethical motivation, but I mean we're human. I think to hit the pocketbook is, I mean that is probably one, you know that we need to get to people's hearts into what they believe and to respect the sanctity of life. We can do that certainly using only ethical means but just exactly what would Debbie just illustrated. Abortion is an industry in the world and in this nation. And if we can help to deflate the profitability of that industry and one of the ways to do that. If we could just snap our fingers and say no more parts of aborted children will be sold ever that, you know, it certainly probably won't eliminate abortion. But it's one of those sinister evil rationales that keeps abortion going that we need to unplug. We can do that. The more we can say absolutely we respect the life of the woman carrying the child as we respect the life of the child. But I think the dollar aspect of it is is significant. And as you everything that's illustrated and what we've gone through all of that talking about, you know, chopping up a piece of an aborted child's long, putting it on a mouse and all of that. I mean, it sounds like mad scientists at work, but their dollars involved in all of that. That company had to pay for those pieces of that child in order to use them. And so the dollar aspect of it, I think is significant. And I think it's part of what can help to hopefully, most importantly, change hearts to believe we can't sell parts of people anymore. And even if those people are just are only unborn children that have no voice, never had a chance to vote, never had a chance to do anything. If we can respect that life and not sell it, then we've taken a big step in the whole abortion machine that operates in the world. Here's the next question. And some of these we've already answered. It's my understanding that Catholic theologians are divided on the use of abortion cell lines for vaccines. Some say remote material cooperation allows for use. There can be prudential. Can there be prudential judgment in this? What is the truth? Some of us can't comprehend using them. But we have children. That's why I like this question we have children growing up and and they want to know what to do. They need guidance. What one way I've heard this or something I use to explain it and because I heard it and I liked it and I think it's effective. And change it from, change it from an embryo or a fetus and just say two year olds if we lived in a country where two year old children were being killed. Because they weren't wanted because their parents decided they didn't want to take care of them and they couldn't handle it. Psychological or social stress or the mother sick or say that two year olds are being killed because they weren't wanted, which is why unborn children are killed. And then someone said hey instead of throwing away their bodies let's use them for research. And then someone said hey let's not just hey if we're going to use them for research let's not rip them apart when we kill them let's just try to kill them and keep them whole. And somebody said wait we could even do better research if we could do experiments on these children before they're killed since they're going to be killed anyway since they're marked for death anyway. If it got to that point and we found ourselves in a situation where that was happening, we wouldn't just shrug our shoulders and say whatever it's legal. What can we do to stop it. We have to stand against that being terrible and wrong, and, and show some dignity for those, those children that died and pray for them. So, that you know that's the thing I tell my own, my own children are pretty pro life. And I can tell you that they, they were very disturbed when they heard about this stuff going on in our country. But they're just know have this question. You, Debbie and Bishop can please chime in but I chose this question because I want people to know that there is some differences of opinion right now in our time and you may hear that that's part of the reason we're providing some guidance. We're telling you where we come out very clearly. Well, absolutely there differences of opinion, but I think the science is there. And it's, and I think that's where Debbie is so helpful. I mean, I know Dr Stacy and I are both are. It's a it's a it's a gift from Evan that I didn't know Debbie months. It hasn't even been a year that we've been in touch with each other. But you give us facts and data, and we're a we're a data driven society. I mean companies make huge but dollars knowing whether I like chocolate better than strawberry. I mean, that's how companies run these days they know our data and data is for sale. And the data that shows us how this has been how parts of people, little people, unborn people have been used. And I think it's just, it's not opinion. It's not. Well, is it ethical or it's simply the data shows that we're as a society we're using certain people for the betterment of other people. And in the end doesn't justify the means. I mean, I think that as, as we continue 15 years is a fairly, you know, significant. Think about many children have been born in the 15 years since Debbie wrote the letter received the response from the Vatican. I think that grave moral obligation to change this is, you know, it's long overdue. I would hope that whoever wrote that letter, and it wasn't, you know, it wasn't from the Pope. At that time, I guess was Pope Benedict, I think was 2005 or right around the time that John Paul II died. But it wasn't from the Pope it was from a, a part of the Vatican, certainly with authority. But I think that I guess my point is, we have to acknowledge that a lot of time has gone past. Since this said that this is a grave moral obligation to see that this has changed. So to just, I would use the word coast on the Vatican document saying, okay, if you must, this is only media cooperation at this point, back in 2005. If you must use it. Then we can allow that but you have a grave obligation to change this. I think the clock is ticking on our demanding under that grave obligation and I feel that grave obligation as much as anyone as a bishop, who's teaching the truth and trying to help people understand how do we respect what God has given us. So, I think we have to acknowledge that too much time has passed. And especially with the COVID-19 vaccine, we have to let our voice be heard and demand that ethical vaccines be produced. And I think with that step, we can continue to address the broader issues that we've discussed this afternoon. Another question about modern as you can see, I want, we still have questions coming in by the way there are lots of questions, and we're trying to get them all I've got them all in a document. Another one about the moral teaching being confusing. Another one about the principle of double effect which gets at the language I was talking about before with remote passive material cooperation in evil. What Bishop was just saying that abortion is a lucrative industry. Here's a good one maybe you can comment on. How do we talk so and I and this is this is good to get to this point because we're in the last 30 minutes, and I was hoping that we would we would get here. So look everyone. I'm sitting here in Tyler Texas with Bishop Debbie's over in Florida. What do we do from here so you know it's talking about this with my husband. We talk about it a lot actually but we're talking about it last night. It's not really it does help to voice objections it does help to talk about it with friends and family and to post things about it on social media. It does help to share the information Debbie Debbie has provided to learn it yourself to share it with other people. If someone asks you questions and you can't answer them go look on the website and find the links and learn it that that's how I learned a lot of it just trying to answer questions. What should we actually do to change things I mean, there are. There is the biomedical advanced research and development authority and warp speed, which the administration had those are teams the administration has defined, which are at warp speed trying to get us a coven 19 vaccine. It's obviously an election year that same Philip Institute doesn't get into politics. I mean we're here to teach and evangelize the Catholic faith to help build civilization, but we don't really have the ability to knock on the doors and Washington DC to get things changed I think Debbie Debbie is able to affect change obviously because she has. As everyone goes forward from here in prayer and discernment. What do we do like what what do we do to keep going in the right direction. This specific question was. You don't want to come across as combative or accusing to the pediatricians and healthcare professionals who are just trying to help and serve and I know a lot of people deal with this and we really are going to deal with it. If there's a vaccine available and we're we're trying to say no in charity and how do we talk about this Debbie Bishop. Well, I can tell you that first of all, the doctors are key. So if you're talking to your pediatrician, you might want to remind them if at least if you have a good pediatrician you know there are some pediatricians are just, you can't there's no dealing with them there's just the way some people are. But if you have a pediatrician who genuinely cares and wants to help in some way or another, remind him of the fact that he is the first blind customer of the pharmaceutical industry. He has the buying power. He has the persuasion ability to collectively groups like the Catholic Medical Association, the Christian Medical and dental Association. The solution of pro life nurses these are huge companies organizations out there that are stepping forward and are writing and are you know trying to let their voices be heard through the pharmaceutical companies. So I say if you're talking to other healthcare professionals, you want to mind your side start by thanking them, you know for what they do. It's really important they hear a lot of garbage, you know, from a lot of people all the time. So it's kind of nice if they get to hear something nice and to tell them how they can truly make a difference if they let their voices be heard. And I would think just piggybacking on what Debbie said, share the website. They need data. I mean doctors are busy people and nurses as well. They're busy, especially with all this COVID. I'm sure that many of them have hardly a time to relax and just live life. They're busy. And so I would encourage, I mean Debbie is the source of data that helps them to know what they're dealing with. And, and certainly to be accusatory and combative isn't helpful. And it's not, you know, it's not the Christian ethic. I think one thing that I always try to remind myself and it's, you know, it's, I certainly fail at times, but we have to remember the whatever person we're dealing with is beloved of God. Even the people doing this horrible research and working on vaccines that are immoral, all of the people are beloved of God and that, you know, I think that's a guiding principle that hopefully reminds us not to get combative or accusatory, but to simply share information and encourage and, you know, it sounds sort of, you know, I guess you'd expect the bishop to say pray. But I think we do need to pray. I think we need to recognize that this is beyond me. It's beyond any of us participating in this. We haven't made these decisions so we can pray that those who do make decisions are guided by the light of truth. But I think the, to me, in this age, especially and with these issues, the data is what hopefully the data is truth. And it hopefully can help people to see the truth. I've known physicians that have come to change their practices because of the truth that's been presented to them. Certainly it needs to be presented in a positive way from people that are reasonable in understanding. And as Debbie said, I think to simply appreciate the sacrifices, especially these days, people in healthcare are making to put their lives on the line to care for other people, especially in this context to approach physicians with a care for them and to share information and to pray that they can come to see what is the clear evident truth to all of us. This is a question we haven't really covered this yet. Debbie can say more about this. A podcast recently said something about the DNA and the vaccine, talking about the mRNA vaccine that Moderna uses. The mRNA, as I read from the Moderna website, works by, you know, the mRNA is in the vaccine, you take the vaccine, the vaccine goes into your body and it tells your DNA to do something different when it makes proteins that will, if the COVID-19 virus comes to you, it'll keep that virus from attaching to your cells and infecting you. So the question here is, is there a concern about safety in taking genetic material as a vaccine that might change your own DNA? I think that's what this question is getting at. That's correct. And obviously it will change your DNA because your DNA is sitting there, minding its own business, and along comes this messenger saying, hey, I want you to start, you know, creating antibodies to the COVID virus. And so it is changing your DNA in that respect. Is it a permanent change? Yes. Is it a problem? Yes, because for a number of reasons. One, and this is one that I don't have an answer for, but I would like to know how, when they set this up with this RNA, how is it that, and maybe why the vaccine is failing so badly? I mean, why they're saying they think it might be 50% effective. Okay, so how does the original RNA, how does that compatible with everybody's DNA? Remember, every single person has their own unique DNA. It's not like we're all, you know, sheep here that are just, you know, I don't know, whatever identical or not. And so if you're using some other source of RNA, and that is mRNA, the M stands for messenger, by the way. And so the messenger RNA is literally delivering that message to your DNA. And the problem is, is we don't have the answers to this. We do not know if there's long term permanent damage that can be done. I will say that it, even if it does alter your DNA, it should not. And I'm going to say this with caution, it should not alter future generations of yours. In other words, that DNA, because it didn't affect what are called the germ cells, which are your, you know, the sperm or egg, it doesn't affect the germline part of your DNA. Then it should not, it wouldn't be passed on like a permanent, you know, whole thing. That's something that we talk about in human cloning, you know, if you've done something wrong, and you mess it up. It's a genetic change that's going to be passed on generations. This, this should not, shouldn't, but, but we'll wait and see. There's too many unanswered questions about it. Yeah. And I really don't think we're not going to get any answer on this before the vaccine comes out. And that's, that's like we're all going to be little guinea pigs. I don't, I just pray that it, that we have other things options out there. Right. Because Moderna is in the news right now, because they seem to be ahead of everybody else in the human trials, but that that doesn't just because they're out ahead right now doesn't mean they're going to stay out ahead. Right. And it matters what the results of those human trials are. If they're 50% of the time or more, and you're seeing horrible adverse reactions to these vaccines, they're not going to move anywhere. Yeah. Thank you. There are some questions. We had a lot of questions about exemptions. Okay, so the thing to remember right now is none of us knows what's going to happen with mandates and exemptions. Okay. The government at either the federal, the state, the local, your school, your employer at different levels, there can be mandates that say you can't come here unless you have received the let's say there is a COVID-19 vaccine produced. You can't come here unless you're vaccinated. Is that that already happens in schools with the childhood vaccines. There could be mandates. They're most likely will be exemptions to the mandates. What exactly will those be? No one knows. No one knows right now at all. I mean, ideally it will be an ethical vaccine, an effective vaccine, and it can be, you know, sent globally to everyone and will have no more COVID-19 and we can go back to things as usual. We're not anywhere close to that point right now. So Bishop and Debbie, what do you have to say about exemptions in general and exemptions with the COVID-19 vaccine? What guidance for conscientious objections? Let's use the aborted fetal for a moment because that's the easiest one to address. If there's a vaccine out there that has been made using aborted fetal cell lines and you know this is the argument that I hear all the time. Well, the Catholic Church says it's okay so you can't have an exemption. Well, the Catholic Church doesn't exactly say that to begin with. Number one. And number two, what the Catholic Church does do is fully support as a tenant of our faith is the right and the duty of moral conscience. It is explicit in Catholic Church teaching and it is one of the most important rights that our bishops across the world fight for. Because we do not want that our bishops do not want to see, for example, the government stepping in and trying to mandate that you provide birth control, you know, in your healthcare plans and by conscience, the bishops can step back and say no, our doctors can't do that or our doctors won't perform abortions, you know. There's so many aspects that the bishops have fought for the right of moral conscience and it is a tenant of our faith. So I always tell parents, you know, if this is what you have and if the state allows it, let's be better. We've got to, got to look at that right now right 45 of 50 states allow religious extensions to vaccines. If they keep on that trend with COVID and they just say we're going to, you know, put this vaccine out there. We want it to be added to the schedule of vaccines without saying, you know, no exemptions if they say no exemptions there's not anything you can do. But if they do allow what the state allows, then you would have the religious right in and I honestly have told Catholics we're very, very blessed because other other denominations do not have the type of teaching and the depth of the teaching that we have on moral conscience. It's been the catechism is in papal and cyclicals and it is a long fought for and one teaching that we that we honor and hold up as a tenant of our faith. But the Bishop knows this. Well, I just echo everything that the Debbie said and you know you're you're getting into legal situations and legal means the civil society and laws and certainly we know that laws can be allow things or even mandate things that are immoral. We have to to work and to to speak out and to vote in ways that do our best to make sure that the freedom of conscience in all of our freedoms are respected. So, it is, I mean it kind of brings up the the election this year that is that is important and we need to have well formed consciousness as Debbie said it, it gets to the very basis of who the human person is created in the image and likeness of God, we can choose right and wrong goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, they blew it, but we still have that ability to choose right and wrong that's part of being created in the likeness and image of God so we hope and pray and we need to work to ensure that the state never eliminates that ability to make a moral choice and to be exempt from whatever because we morally choose the right thing and we know the right thing. But we've got a lot of work to do to make sure that the legal aspects of our country and the world continue to move in the right direction. And so, we have, as Debbie said 45 out of 50 states, allow the the conscience exemption for vaccines, we need to ensure that, I mean, as as Dr Stacy said if you know we want a coven 19 vaccine that is morally founded and available to everyone. If it's immoral, we want the ability for a conscience exemption. And we all, as Dr Stacy said earlier, now it's all what ifs and maybes and could happen. We need to speak out now in order to ensure that we have the freedoms the essential freedom of conscience that, as St. Paul said, no power on earth can take away from us, but we, we need to do everything we can to ensure that the the legal systems and the governments that continue to to respect that freedom of conscience, and then to take up our own moral obligation to form that conscience well, which is exactly what this afternoon has been about. Okay, a few more questions here that I pulled from the long list we had how to respond to someone who's excited about vaccines using I don't see anybody's excited but some people are it's the truth there are people that out there that express excitement. And again, you see this kind of thinking they're already aborting the babies so why not. I've literally seen I've seen young women post comments to abortion clinics, thanking them for giving them the option to at least donate their babies to medical research. And that's how bad it's gotten. So it's not something that's hush hush they tell women this when they're going, going to have abortions. This is another question about the church's final decision on vaccines vaccinations and the intrinsic evil of abortion someone else struggling with how to reconcile that abortion is evil and and using vaccines that that are produced using those remains. Again, just like we said and I feel like we're repeating ourselves a lot but this is a very big confusion that people have so encourage you to go to Children of God for life and and look at those answers. We're getting ready to wrap up. It's for 15 here central time it's 15 after the hour. And we are not able to take questions real time right now but in the if you go to the St. Philip Institute website. There was. Let's see. It's st philip Institute.org website. And there was this there well it's not there now, there will be posted so the events already happening so it's not there, but there was a Google form that we used to take questions and it's already got like I said over 80. And some people have responded by email to me personally because my email address for the St. Philip Institute is on the website here. You can find Debbie's email address. Please don't email Bishop Strickland with all your questions. But you can continue to ask questions we are reading them I was just looking on Facebook live where Dan Burke. Thankfully, thank you so much Dan Burke and the people who work with you at the Avala Institute for spiritual direction. They are hosting this for us to help get the word out to more people. And people are posting questions on Facebook even we are going to be reading those and we're trying to answer them as you know try to answer there are so many questions that are very much the same so we're trying to answer those all at once. If there's anything we haven't covered yet though please go ahead and email us I'm trying to put all those together so we can put all the stuff that you've heard today will be put out there and writing Debbie may put it on her website will definitely put it on the St. Philip Institute website and I'm sure that Dan Burke will help us continue to get the word out. Debbie Bishop anything else. I can't think of anything right now but you know at people are free to email me to, it's best to go through email rather than maybe on Facebook because Facebook is got too much. They're, they're, you know, hiding too much they're deleting too much and so you know it's, it's too, it's too, it's not private, let's put it that way so probably best to email. I would firstly just thank especially Debbie and Dr Stacy and Dan Burke and all the Avala Institute that has supported this. And everyone participating. I would encourage you to continue to be educated. I guess the bottom line for me in in a lot of people that I've interacted with. I think we're sort of numb with all the stuff that's gone on this past few months. And I think a lot of people are just discounting this as one of those things you hear about on the internet one of those, they're discounting it as all that can be true. It's a different reality these people are just there. It's all hyperbole. Maybe once they did this but they can't be doing it anymore. I hopefully you it's clear to you it's sadly clear that this is real and a board of children have been in continue to be used to develop for scientific research of all kinds. I think I've highlighted the vaccine issue. I would just encourage all of us to do not again not get depressed about it, not to feel devastated maybe maybe that's appropriate but take that devastation back to Christian hope and encourage everyone that you to go to the Children of God for Life website to look at these charts to be aware if you know of anyone who's about to go get a vaccine or to get their children vaccinated. Encourage them to go to these websites, go to the website and get the information that's right there it's real data. I guess that's the final thing that I would want to say there's an ongoing tendency to discount this as this Bishop's just out there or this is just somebody's agenda and it's not real and I'm going to get back to my busy schedule. It's real. All of us need to speak up. We need to do so with Christian joy and the light of Christ to defeat this darkness, but we need to ourselves accept that it is real. This sinister work has been done and continues to be in the more good people I still trust in this nation and around the world. Most of the people are good hearted, wanting to do the right things, and to form our businesses to know the truth of this. I think we all have to be on a mission to right this wrong and to get the word out that this is real and to do everything we can as Debbie is spent a good chunk of her life, doing her best to get the truth out of here. I encourage all of us to continue on this mission of knowing that it's true, not being, you know, lacking hope, but knowing our hope is in addressing this, and helping others to know this is real, and it needs to be stopped. Thank you, everyone for sticking through this with us. I hope that that all your questions were answered. Like I said, let us know if they're not. Thanks again to Dan Burke for broadcasting this for us on. I learned how to use webinars because of COVID-19, which is not entirely a bad thing. But yay for human innovation, we can do the right thing when it comes to these vaccines as well. Thanks everyone for being here, Bishop, could you please close us out with a prayer. Sure. The Lord be with you. And with your spirit. God, we thank you for the gift of life. We thank you for every child newly conceived and every person living out there, their natural gift of life until it ends according to your will help us to joyfully embrace the gift of life is the most sacred gift we have created in your likeness and image help us to joyfully respect our own lives and the lives of others and help us to be on this mission and the light of your son, help others see the light into transform our culture in all the darkness that we face now guided by the light of your truth by your hopes and dreams for each of us as you hold us in your heart of love. May the Blessed Virgin Mary intercede for this nation and for all humanity at this time. And may the United States be a leader in these efforts to uphold the sanctity of life and to move away from any use of aborted children but especially with the vaccine issue that all vaccines one day may be ethically produced and that our great nation may help be in the forefront of that movement. We ask your blessing for all who participated in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Okay. Thanks everyone. God bless you. Bless you too.