 Kia ora. Kia ora. Paula, what next made a big effort to engage its audience online? Is this the future of live TV? I hope it's something like this and not reality TV or something like The Bachelor where we have a live rose ceremony or some other show where we see people being sent home or taken away crying in a limo. It's something that encourages people to engage imaginatively and intellectually with the issues of the day, I think is a great thing. The show created a particular narrative around the future. How important is storytelling in the way that we come to view the future? It's important to know that whoever is telling the story controls the narrative. So if we're discussing our country, our society, the political spectrum, the future, who is controlling the narrative or who is joining in with the narrative is really essential. But at the same time, the more talk, the more narratives, the more conflicting narratives going on, the better. In many ways, I think in this country, we need more discordant narratives. We need people stepping up to disagree with each other, backing up what they think, not resorting to abuse or vitriol, but bringing their different points of view because that's when the story becomes really rich and multifaceted. But is that kind of complexity in a story? Does that turn some people off? Are we at risk of having people switch off doing something that's complicated and multifaceted? Clearly a lot of people do think that complexity is a bad thing. I'm reminded of this every time I watch International House Hunters, which follows a really, really strict narrative form. And after every break, you have a massive recap as to what has already happened in case you've forgotten during the commercials or I guess in case you're just tuning in. And I think it's maybe received wisdom that this is how information needs to be delivered to the populace, told us, told to us, reinforced, repeated, made as simple as possible. And it's quite possibly that that's how some people prefer to receive information, where everything is black and white and you're either for or against. However, we don't really live in a black and white world. We live in a world of great complexity. And while it's true that a lot of people don't want to negotiate with complexity, it doesn't let us off the hook in terms of provoking discussion and trying to change people's minds. We'll just suggest a range of different options because otherwise do we have independent will? Do we live in a democracy? Do we live in the kind of society in New Zealand that we want? I mean, one great thing about New Zealand, I think, is that we've been small and nimble as a society. We've been able to affect social change when other larger, older or traditional countries could not. So Maori MPs, women getting the vote, social welfare system. We've been able to really enact social change here and you don't do that by presenting black and white pictures to the populace. One of the stories that was told as part of what next was around the importance of technology and the fact that artificial intelligence and robots are coming and they're going to be stealing people's jobs. People are talking about accountants and lawyers. Those types of jobs are disappearing. But does this mean that what's the role of creativity and say an arts degree in the future? I think it's funny when it's always accountants and lawyers sort of disliked professions by others. Can we do without doctors? It's something else beyond a skill set. It's also about intuition and empathy and gut feelings, playing on instinct. Or just a wild thought that's part of the glory of a great doctor and a great medical system. In an arts degree, the death of which has been predicted since I was in high school in the 70s, why are you doing that? Do you want to be a teacher? That's the only possible use for it. Of course, I think it's ridiculous to think that any sort of degree training that teaches you to be a critical thinker, an excellent writer and to be imaginative and intellectually curious, as we talked about before, that intellectual and imaginative curiosity is essential to our humanity. When people say, where can an arts degree lead you, I say it can lead you anywhere you want to go. What's crucial that you develop on routes through university are critical faculties and an enormous curiosity about how things work and the skills to read, to disseminate information, to understand, to articulate. That's what's really important about a university. It's about being better readers, writers, thinkers, dreamers, experimenters who understand how creativity involves experiment and failure.