 All right, how dare we being late? The pictures of milk like actual pictures It's a picture of water. There's like pictures of milk I didn't say pictures of milk. That was I miss reading that is very amusing All the time I went jay with you in the picture of the pizza Cardboard pizza I Guess I'd be interested Yeah, well imagine if there was an economy in the future where like I don't know We had some crazy tech where you could just print I guess I don't know why I'm going with printing at this point if we're in the future More impressive than that Which prints out the food and it has the flavor, but all of the nutrients in the piece of why would it be a picture? Like a block Like will building and you're like, why would it be this way? Like just getting little blocks of food that have all the correct nutrients, but a flavored like things that actually taste good Is there a slave around I Don't know if that's a particularly Marketable like name for the products. I think we'll have to try a little bit harder than that Because you're gonna upsell great cubes that people would want to eat. Oh remember a water. Yeah, you have to really sell those Yes, you I'm sure in the future They'll be able to flavor things that are very healthy for you. Whatever you'd like we'll have I mean it's very good probably yeah Or we'll have those what of the the from Star Trek the food maker things what are they called? They have a special name essentially they just they just make food I'm pretty sure I know that man. That's why it's frustrating me. Yeah. Yeah, like I should know what they are But they like tea Earl Gray hot and you tell the computer what you want and it just makes it steak Replicator. Yeah, something like that So I don't well, I guess they I guess they replicate Yeah, they replicate the food which implies that it's not Well, I guess that's how you take Replicating like normally when you say I'm going to replicate something It means you're gonna make like like a simulacrum of it You know like it's not gonna be the real thing Well, I guess to make the exact copy of whatever lacks Probably isn't something that would because it sounds like you're saying like you'll be missing something from the original well, I So I I don't know how the technology is supposed to work or if they just don't explain it But maybe the machine has this huge Supply of just raw Materials and the forms of like elements carbon and all that sort of thing And so when you tell it what to make it gets all the materials and assembles them So it could essentially make a steak out of just the raw particles and atoms and It like the cells and it assembles them together. Yeah, it puts all those together Without having to actually like grow the meat and to do it the natural way It's the it's the same thing as meat But it doesn't it isn't grown. It's assembled on a molecular level I Don't know. Well, Star Trek is one of those you can't think about some of the technology too hard inertial dampeners and universal translator because not every episode can be Darmak and And on that note welcome to e-fap 158 We're we're talking about all kinds of chat ins and topics and discussions But also a runy a video now the origin of this is a good old friend of mine sent me a video and was like I like this channel. They said some stuff in this video. There's very suss and I was like, hmm I listened some of it and I was like what in the fucking world is this advice for writing? Holy shit well and To further give context I'm not a fan of you cannot do a thing because it's been done too many times before Even though I'd probably casually bring that up as something about stuff in history You know like if someone said like we can't just have the good guy beat the bad guys too boring It'd be like all right I mean, you know, we should probably think about it a little bit more specifically than that Like instead of just be like he's got to do something different because it's like a trope at this point of the good guy wins Well, let me ask you this what is the difference between a trope and a cliche? That's not so I don't know And and should we sort of I guess agree on the two if there is a meaningful difference So I like definition wise. It might be worthwhile to figure that out Maybe if we talk about by Merriam Webster, which I'm citing because that makes you sound smarter Neat go on okay Probe a word or expression used in a figurative sense and be a common or overused theme or device So I like the first part of that. I like a commonly used one. I don't like overused Use me and that feels very And plus the good guy defeats the bad guy. Is that a trope? Sure. I like it though. I don't think it's overused I don't think we have too many stories for the good guy beats the bad guy in the end cliche is a lot more qualitative the number one a trite phrase or expression number two a hack need theme characterization or situation Three something such as a menu item that has become overly familiar or commonplace So when a trope goes too far it becomes a cliche Well, it seems like actually so cliche. So all cliche means is not original really Like that's like it's like I could see how a cheaply made or lazy movie would be full of cliche Days because they couldn't think of something original or interesting themselves, but a very cool Like I bet if you went through the father or pretty much basically any movie you'll find tropes You know, but that's right. It's a trope that everybody speaks English Yeah, it's Is it a trope that are like films obey the 180 degree rule when it comes to like cinematography? Fringy explain to the audience what the 180 degree rule is It's basically that if you've got like two characters talking to each other You know, like if you have one person framed on the left looking to the right the person They're talking to need to be on the right frame looking to the left You never want to put the camera on the opposite side Otherwise people get confused and like you can't tell where people are Kind of In terms of a lot of the camera often stands on one side of the train one side in the air It's particularly important in a movie like that because of the directionality of that set Yeah, if you only have left and right to go you really don't want to confuse them and go wait. Why are they going back? Right. Oh, that's the right way. Okay. Oh Okay, they're okay. Okay. They're not done. That's good I guess reading these definitions it feels like there is no difference between these two. It just means an overused thing I like I like the idea that a cliche is when it's it's overused and unoriginal and almost like lazy Like you're relying on a cliche, but tropes are just emergent almost I feel like cliches are almost Um, I think maybe with a cliche you have to if they're a little more specific maybe Um, like when a character is about like like when we're watching batwoman or some show like that Well, there's no show about woman And you watch it and right before characters say something You roll your eyes and you say their lines before they do because you know it's coming because it's just a cheap obvious thing to say Like that might be a cliche Um, or as tropes are more broad I guess the problem I I don't know if if one definition says a common or overused Theme or device and the other one says a trite phrase or expression trite means overused and unoriginal So like it feels like they're basically the same thing and the any distinction that we try to draw Is just going to be like the one that we prefer, you know I I enjoy my Yeah, sure. I mean I'm uh, um I'm like cool with that as a definition. I guess it's just um interesting because you often hear cliche Like I feel like both of them are tinged with negativity at this point like that. They're not the negative term trope more unfairly so I would say by my definition I think trope is uh, typically negative when it seems like It's actually it just means common So like for instance, is it a trope to say? Hi, how are you like is that a trope instead of just saying hi or how are you or Any other number of trope? Yeah Like a trope of small talk. That was the weather. Yeah Important to note though this this gets brought up every once in a while um Tropes are descriptive not prescriptive Absolutely things things are tropes because they pop up a lot They do not pop up a lot because they are tropes. No, they're definitely distinction. They're definitely descriptive I guess i'm just now you can make a film you can if you want to but now may oh maybe that is the difference, right? They're gonna say this that's a cliche. That's what people say, you know Maybe you can use that a little in the other way whereas tropes are more They just they just sort of tend to happen in storytelling and maybe cliches are more a little well, I guess uh What you just said is probably like the broad topic when it comes to tropes and cliches and storytelling is that You're gonna have them probably because like all creative work Is derived from like something that came before like it's it's It's kind of impossible not to write something that is not In some part influenced by something that came before it Which is part of the reason why there are tropes in the first place, right? Like people get inspired by a story that they like and then they do something similar They get inspired by you know, someone else gets inspired by their story and then it becomes similar And so like it just becomes just a common part of Like is the three act structure a trope is it you know is um Like uh, uh, is in media res a trope is I don't know like a linear story that starts at the beginning where it begins and then ends at the end Like is that a trope at this point? Oh, uh, in media in medius res means In in the midst of things or in the middle of yes, so what's when a story begins just sort of in the middle of Stuff occurring. You don't really get much. I don't know why you would say no fringy dot dot dot. I'm I'm This is a hype like I'm not actually asking like it's it's a topic um Uh, I guess it's just um I think that um like trope and cliche get thrown around a lot And I feel like we Probably worth like diving into it a bit more than that and then just saying that's a trope. Don't do that Yeah, plenty of tropes that I love I think they're used interchangeably a lot to me the line uh is between writing out of laziness and writing because you're reflecting some truism that can be reflected throughout history and patterns of behavior and uh, I don't know which is a trope which is a cliche Um, I'm inclined to say that the cliche is the lazy one And the tree was like it hears more to the truisms that you can I guess it's about history Like it's more okay Like if if if you said this this is a trope in the movie I'd be like, okay You know like tell me more if you said this is this this movie is really cliched. I'm like, oh, okay Like I'm less. I'm this movie is very tropey. Did you feel like a very tropey movie? Hey, awesome. I'm excited. It's tropey. It's tropical. I guess it's funny to think about because it's tropical I think it's it's interesting. I guess um, because I find that lately I'm starting to get a little bit like frustrated with um Almost this unwillingness to do straightforward simple stories anymore. You know, like it's gotta be different to be different I'm not like all those other writers It's it's kind of like um, like is the because someone could say at this point In fact, I'm pretty sure it would be the hero's journey is like a trope. It is just a it is a common recurring storytelling, um device but Like I don't I don't see that that is a good reason To not do it Like because because usually a lot of the the advice follows, right? Like this is a trope so avoid it or change it or don't don't do that Um, but I mean there's a lot of things that are just recurring elements of storytelling because they typically tend to work They just You know, if if you see if you feel like if everything's justified Generally, that's gonna be good as long as it all makes sense. Well, yeah It's just you ask the question of why is it that the hero's journey is often a is a very recurring storytelling device like why Do a lot of stories adhere to the three act structure? Why do a lot of stories have it? There's like the second act low point and then the hero comes back and then wins at the end of the day it's just like a I don't Just because something is common doesn't mean that you can ascribe any like level of quality to it Because something happens a lot it feels like um, we need to go further than that And any explanation we have for why you should avoid it will not come from because it be common But just that it's not a good choice Right Yeah, to me like that at three act structure is the most effective formula for an emotional catharsis And to deviate from that you're just gonna get a lesser effect. So I think you can be very broad structure too It is a broad structure. Yeah, there's so much freedom to operate within that skeleton. Yes I was thinking about a lot of operations take place in a skeleton actually I was thinking about one that I don't even know if you call it a trope or a cliche, but um Something you want as a writer a lot of time when you have a you're building up your villain and your hero at the same time You want to have them talk to each other before any kind of final confrontation typically We're not so different you and I Yeah You want to make a reason for them to have some kind of conversation and they found a solution to this In lots of different things and the dark knight did the joker was indeed caught which means that You know batman can talk to him directly and they have like a big old chattaroonie But he wanted to be caught. That's how he got in there and then he can get out and so that we can still have our third act payoff and then You fast forward to 2012 because a really really well thought out well constructed plan on how to get out They always do um you have 2012 then sky fallen avengers Both the villains in that both wanted to be captured in order to escape later So they both talk talk to the heroes if you know what I mean So we get that as well and now um because I've seen talk about this the batman trailer Riddler is caught and batman is talking to him people like oh, we're doing that again and it's like Well, I mean that again cat when the hero talks to the villain Well, just I like it when my hero gets the villain allows themselves to be caught because they always wanted to be and then they'll escape And they're just like oh we've seen this before and it's just like I mean surely it'll be about the execution uh Yeah Oh, I would say it's always about the execution. I guess it's just um There's also it's worth more thinking about like what are the payoffs that you can essentially get from just allowing a cliché to happen um because you know a lot of like that great drama that potent spicy drama Is when you've got people who are just like diametrically opposed having to talk to each other It's like usually you get some really good stuff from that um And of course like if you want a further like personal relationship between like the hero and the villain and not make them so disconnected you want them both together And it's not Like if that's a cliche that the hero cap like the villain is captured and then the hero talks to them and then the Villain gets away I don't I don't want to live in that world where apparently that's bad and we're not allowed to do that anymore I if I notice something like that and I'm like oh we did this before I am almost immediately I've seen in my brain has been like hey chill out. That's not a criticism Just because it's happened before yeah I like when that beat happens in an almost friendly context like the movie goldfinger Where like well bond is captured I guess but goldfinger's just like come on out for tea And they just they sit down. It's like yeah, here's my evil plan. What do you think? We had a lot of the time I had the villain the villain calls the hero and they'll just be like you're annoying me So they're just basically just beat up in the bar in movie heat and just have that conversation. Yep. Yeah, right Yeah, yeah, there's lots of that was like a really good conversation as well Lots of ways to do it and it's just that people are noticing things like a bunch of movies have done it already And it's like yeah, but they're all different So, I don't know but a bunch of movies have done that there's a guy who dresses up like a bat and fight people Is that Because we say we say oh he dresses up as a bat no no no no no Doesn't I want him to really fucking dress up that with The the the big ears and the snoot and the eyes and everything go all the way the big web wings underneath your arms Sounds like you want to have that ranks What maybe a guy to stitch human skin underneath his arms and fly around Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I human skin Well, it can be some web material, you know some we don't have to jump No, I thought I thought you said he needed to I thought you said he needed to fully commit Okay, sure. I'm reason. That's true. That that is a little bit unreasonable. I will say I don't want this vigilante to break the law Holy fuck. I'm just looking at images of man bat. Jesus Christ. He's a Man bat. Look at this. Look at this lad here. He's like roiding out That's cool Man bat. Oh boy. It's one of batman's villains Oh, it's a batman villain man bat Yes, he is actually I forget about him. Oh my goodness. It's like batman for the other way around That's right. He looks like he looks like one of the gargoyles, but with pants Yeah, I can see the gargoyle Do you have pants on or the gargoyles have pants you mean? Oh, no, he's wearing pants I don't think you got a shirt Do you think he had blue legs? All bats will have little denim jeans on God those fucking veins though, dude. He's just Look at those veins at his ears He's so muscular that he's bat the very angry Um See one I I want to bring up because it's going to line up similarly to the one that we'll be discussing in this video We're going to check out, but it's not the same and the one that has bothered me for a while is uh Barry a gaze. Have you guys heard of this one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got a whole graveyard. We don't like it when back in I don't know. I want to say like 80s 90s. I guess there was lots of things that had gay characters But they were getting killed and that's bad because it's that's you can't be doing that and um The trope like would line out that yeah a lot of shows decide to kill their gay characters, which is fucked up because it I don't know perpetuates a state that gay people It's so hard to like connect the dots just depending on like how because I think the I think the logic is that You have the characters who are representative of some like portion of the world and then they get killed Which means that they're no longer present in it. I think that's It's kind of like the the black guy not surviving until the end of the horror movie I think might be similar to that, you know, the the conceit that they raise is Those characters are less important and thus they are killed. Yeah, yeah, which something like that Depending on the content may or may not be true. It could be that the writer just gave up on the fucking gay characters Didn't know how to write them. We're like, I don't know. I'll just kill them. Um Unfortunately many things that I like quite a lot gets criticized for this when in the story It is like incredibly important and justified But it's like, yeah, but they're gay or they're whatever so you can't kill them Otherwise you'll you'll leave that trope Once once you hit that point, it's like, ah now this is the corrosive element of allowing Too much consideration for tropes and what other people do Influence your story because you may well have written a story Where committing to a certain story beat is the correct decision for the story But you might be like, uh, well, but like But people might say that this is like those other things and then it falls into a trope Ah, I don't know. I'm not going to do that. It's like awesome. So you've now made a decision that has hurt your story Based on basically peer pressure. I think the the first death in it chapter two, which is not a film I Particularly think it thought was great. Uh the fucking clown eats a gay guy Like and I remember people talking about like wow, so the gay guy dies first barrier gay I was like, it's fucking killer clown who's eating so many people eat a gay person suddenly It's like horrible. Like what is this? What are we doing? Do you want representation or not? To me, I see this the opposite. It's like It's a gay person gets eaten too because everyone gets eaten. It's like you don't get well You think the clown just draws the line of gay people I was like, oh, I'm an evil killer clown, but I'm like, I don't want to get you know I don't want to get tweeted at and I wonder if So it's say for example, you're writing your story and someone's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't kill your gay character And you go, oh, yeah I wouldn't want to be a part of that trope and then the next writer the next writer the next Until it's like it's a trope that gay people are invincible Yeah, that's bad when we go back to the beginning kill your strength We've sort of we've sort of crossed over the hump when it comes to like with this with women How um when that was the when feminism and that was kind of the thing that was in vogue that was the trendy thing more so Um, we need more female representation. We need more women in this more women in that and then Sure enough women would get killed in stories Because that's what happens in stories is characters can get killed and they have bitched and moaned Well, this is what this is. This is what happens when you want, you know, you're gonna be around. You're gonna get killed by clowns Yeah, and I feel the importance of a character shouldn't have anything to do with their sexuality or their duration in the film Like sometimes a really key character can be someone who like dies in the prologue or something and like sets up The whole line of action for the main characters Well, I mean it's been said before but like all of the story of game of thrones It all comes back to Ned Stark's death, which is he's in the show for like You know 10 percent But it's always that that's caused everything ultimately Yeah And that's the thing that that was like, um, that's the value I guess because it's it's not about actually the quality of writing It's just going to tell you whether or not you're it's almost like the um The reverse engineering of subversion because you're like how do I subvert and it's like well Look at what's often done and then do other things It's like so main characters usually survive so you can kill them Gay people don't get eaten by clowns enough or too much do the opposite Okay Surprise my audience Um, yeah, and I don't know I feel I feel like it got to a point as well where people will be like this show has this trope Such as barrio gays, so I'm out and it's like oh That's that's just seems really fucking strange instead of just pointing out that that happens a lot maybe Um, barry your gays as in bury them in a grave like to kill them. Yeah, it just refers to You have a gay or well an lgbt character in your show or movie or whatever and they end up dying That's barrio gays. Okay. No, right. It's barry So that's barry my uh, he's the the gay cover them in berries You'd want to The gay guy No, not the berries. No, I'm very That could that could be his gangster name Gaze He's in the he's in the mob and he's got really big eyes is like man This year, this is buggy malone and this is bury the gays And there you go, um, they got pinstripe suits and Yeah What was real name's bugsy bugsy Mola just wants normative values in films I don't even know what that has to do with anything really. I'm just talking about Half and things happen like whether or not that's a problem We just want to see dead Gays Part of the description says the problem isn't merely that gay characters are killed off The problem is the tendency that gay characters are killed off in a story full of mostly straight characters So I have some news And I might have to break to you It's that uh, there's not a lot of gay people compared to straight people The vast majority of people are straight. So if you have a mostly gay Setting where most that one was the characters are gay You will either have to come up with a an explanation for that or else it will be very strange Can we say that that woman is doing various traits? Can we say that? I think we can It's it's bury the whites It's doing um I was gonna say Luke Fox. He's still not gay yet, right? They haven't made him gay Um Yeah, because yeah, he's definitely still strikes. He almost fell for the clue master person's daughter or whatever, didn't he? Um, yeah, that's right. Yeah He's probably by Yeah, I would assume they'd want to do well. Yeah, but anyway, it's a funny world. Uh, Gotham and batwoman It's filled every every woman is basically a lesbian Well, I was about to say it's it's more accurate to say it's filled with lesbians rather than gays meaning that there's a shit ton of Women and they're all lesbian. Like that's just how it like seems to work I don't know where the people in this universe come from the gay world Either way, uh, that would be a show that completely bucks this trend and look how well written it is Case in point like that's the it doesn't guide you to good writing to avoid trope I don't think At least not strictly like it's um, I think that there's I think I certainly because we've been talking about like You know, I think that there is definitely an approach that you can take We look at something that is commonly done and you can find a way to twist it work it around Like find a find a way to change it a little bit Um, like there are multiple ways that you can subvert a trope. Like there's more than one option even um star wars That that first movie not having luke strike the emperor down instead His subordinate has a change of heart because it's like that that's pretty subversive That is subversive. Absolutely No, like you got you got ways to be subversive and of course it's funny, right Something that is subversive can eventually just become a trope anyway. Yeah, everybody does it Everybody's inspired by it doesn't so that's why it feels like it just tunes forever like Something that was great because we've I think you said it just earlier for you, but like, you know a simple story That's almost subversive right now. Like whoa Yeah, like It would almost be subversive to just have like i'm i'm like Coming of age and little medieval town. I'm gonna go on an adventure to like I don't know stop the dragon who's gonna come and destroy my town and I come back changed It's like that's it's like a really simple straightforward story But like as it stands right now that would honestly be pretty like Wrath now to have a story like that Yep I don't know if you were you gonna say spin rags I was just Maybe this was less of an issue back at you know back when Citizen Kane and stuff was coming out and there were far less So far less movies, you know, and that's what you get. He still had stories, of course But you have far less movies and cinema as a as a you know a medium was still kind of in its infancy and You didn't have all of the you didn't have so much baggage There wasn't the you didn't have as much in the way of you know, movie tropes and things as you do now That must have been I guess nice Experimental like Well now it's like very normal I guess it's also you probably less about like Now thanks to the internet you just have a good old database Like I mean there's tv tropes like a database of hey like that idea you have it's been done before Yeah, I know Every every single idea that you could ever possibly come up with there's probably something that exists that is similar Um, and then just reminding you and then of course course too That website used to piss me off. It doesn't anymore, but like back when I first discovered it I'm just like fuck. You can't do anything without this site going. Oh, it's the old such and such that you're doing Fuck you get like impossible to be original anymore. It is the internet version of the simpsons did it Yeah Your main character's going to sleep, huh? Yeah, and and they all have little nicknames too like each trope. They do yeah It's like awesome. I thought I was really smart Then again, that is kind of like a great ego killer when you're in your uh, your edgy phase when you try to write You're like, oh, i'm so smart. Look at me to all these crazy stories I'm so Insanely original and then it's just like all right, buddy. Sure the fuck out Whatever idea you thought was cool. It's not and somebody already did it better than you will And uh, it's like humbling your words since we'll be looking at the video about it What do you guys know about the stuffed into a fridge trope? It's origin Yeah, I know about the stuff. I assume that's referring to indiana jones, but I don't I didn't know that was It's not where my mind goes as well It originally It originates Well, you can do it Well, the problem is you probably because I vaguely know if you probably have it written down Someone tell me i'm at the edge of my seat. It originates with green lantern uh He makes a big green fridge and I was just going to read the actual heebie tropes thing to give you the Run down because I figured they'll have it better than I can say it as well A loved one is hurt killed maimed assaulted or otherwise traumatized in order to motivate another character or move their plot forward Uh, the term sometimes referred to as fridging was popularized by comic book writer gale Simone or simon. I think simon. I'm not sure Yeah, her website. Yeah Women in refrigerators on that site. Simone compiled a list of instances of female comic book characters who were killed off as a plot device It is named for a storyline in green lantern in which a villain major force Oh, is that his name? Okay Leaves the corpse. Yeah a major force Uh, he leaves the corpse of kyle reyner's girlfriend alexandra de witt Literally stuffed into a refrigerator for him to find years later major force repeated the gimmick with kyle's mother in an oven It was just a trick with a mannequin that time though Um, the term came to be used more broadly over time to refer to any character who was Targeted by an antagonist who has them killed off raped and or otherwise brutalized and Pacitated depowered or brainwashed for the sole purpose of affecting another character motivating them to take action Okay So you can probably see how it started and you can already see how this will unravel and start to become a bit fallacious in terms of Anybody who dies and it motivates anyone else to do anything. It's like, oh wow. Look at you frigid. It's like Yeah, I was like, man, that is just like That's like common Well, yeah, if you have generally Protagonists at least back to the day protagonists were normally like good-ish people A lot of the times our hero would be A good person. He would be upstanding. He wants to do the right thing or she of course And one of the ways that a protagonist can be compelled into righteous action um Or justified fury is if a loved one Suffers harm or is killed or there's some injustice that happens to them I mean, it just seems like a like I mean, that's what I mean It takes incadu dying For gilgamesh to get his shit together. I mean, this is like the I mean This is as tail as old as tails um Uh a film recently called the big ugly. I don't know. I think I mentioned it I would never fucking recommend it. Um, but it's it's about, uh rodin pilman is an oil man in america and um Fuck why am I forgetting his name? Uh clockwork orange main character Oh, you're talking about, um, alex the large No, I'm Was that not it the guy? He taught history and community Oh, okay Someone in chat's gonna tell me any any second now. I'm completely blank. Malcolm McDowell. That's his name So and he's like actor, right? Yeah, he's like an I think an english investor or something And he visits ron pilman with his like Malcolm McDowell Yeah, yeah All right So he visits ron pilman with his like top bodyguardie band vinny jones And uh, that's like the the hook of the film. I guess like these three doing Gun stuff maybe and it's like, okay Um, the deal goes great and they're gonna go home And I was watching it like so what's gonna fuck everything up then? Everyone has a girlfriend and ron pilman's son. It's like I want to fuck all their girlfriends It's like, okay Bit of a strange one, but fine and in my head I was thinking if he's successfully because he starts trying to Um Get with vinny jones's girlfriend And I was like so even if he sleeps with you that surely won't fuck the deal because that's just like Drama of hey you cheated on me. Ooh Um I was like, I wonder how this is gonna unravel uh She's like partially into it partially not and it gets out of hand. He kills it And I was like, oh So that'll be the motivation there because now that you've killed it that means everything's gonna fucking fall apart To a degree. I was like, oh, this is kind of like the fridging thing where We had to motivate the destruction of this deal And so he has to kill that girl I was gonna do it. It's like, uh, they try to sleep. He tries to sleep with her. She refuses. He kills her I guess it's like Yeah, I guess that'll be enough to make vinny jones do what he does um And what I'm getting at is just that when it's like a death that motivates them, but it comes from like A plot line as in we just mentioned game of thrones, uh, net stock's death You can see it coming a mile away Just because of how every character is characterized where he is what's happening. He's gonna die Um If someone said yeah, but it's fridging because it motivates everyone else in the storyline because he's the leader of How stocks sort of thing I should be like that's retarded like I Know You can't kill people Because you know what when people die, that's usually pretty upsetting and it can often change people's behavior Um, absolutely. If that if that is a trope that it's like man, like what what options like I'm not And generally your hero Well, I like we were talking about earlier most care most people on the planet are straight awful as it sounds And so if the the majority of your especially action heroes And action protagonists and things of that nature are men Then that means that they will have a female romantic interest Who will serve as The traumatic death It wouldn't even be seen It wouldn't need. No, it wouldn't even need to that's just presumably the other way around because they called it women in refrigerators But I know for a fact that that could apply to just anybody dying at this point Again, that's not the point rags. Oh, we're Yeah, it is That's what we're talking about the women thing It's an explanation for why remember how now if most like if we lived in a world where most people were gay Then the trope would be different I guess it's just um when it comes to because I I imagine what the trope was was like man Look at all these women who just get killed so that like I don't know our like Protagonist superhero guy goes and fights the bad guy and it feels like really Lazy and purposeless. Well, I assume Rags the point was just that you can see exactly how that happened. It's not like nefarious Oh, yeah, yeah, like it's it's I mean it follows right because what is what is like Very quick way to get to our to like drama. It's like for someone dies Yeah and then yeah, that's why like you've got your hero man Yeah, like it's exactly you've got like your hero man He probably has somebody really cares about you can't kill the hero man because a hero man is going to go on the adventure Right, so who's who's the next person then it's like well, probably the person they care about the most It's like, all right like straight to the drama of course, you know like The reason why I guess it's when you think about it is like yes, I think we can see how the the uh The recurring story element arises And I would imagine because this was came up with in 1999. It's like I imagine if you looked at in 1999 Probably would have been like man. This happens a lot. Um, that can't be it though in terms of the criticism That it happens a lot. Um Like there needs to be something If there was nuance at one point for a lot of these tropes they get boiled down because like it's interesting It's someone in chat just said that um That's not the barrier gaze trope. It's about token gay characters getting killed off once the author's done using them for representation That's a way better Criticism because that seems like you could actually get somewhere in terms of detailing how that is happening Unfortunately barrier days gets used on even characters that have been there the whole time and their death is like very specific I guess this is the thing right when it comes to because I could imagine that part of the criticism at some stage was that the women characters who got killed didn't have much Of a personality or really anything at all. They were just like, uh, I love you my girlfriend slash wife slash important person in my life Oh, no, you're dead Skeletor i'm gonna get you like I imagine that that was the criticism Um, but I guess at that point you're like, so what if I develop like a really well fleshed out character? Who is really easy to like and um You know, they're just a person they they have a life They clearly have a life in this story and then they die and then that motivates my main character to go forward And they're wearing an I love life t-shirt By the way, it's it's funny. I love being alive. That's a guy laugh That same person said for it to be fridging it has to be like a long term grief It can't just be short term And it's like the thing is what you're saying makes much more sense like these are actual criticisms That's not how the tropes used um believe me Uh, because it's it's unfortunate, but I don't know that it's it's not like I'm saying everyone doesn't use it wrong But that's what I think the trouble with tropes is um They get like Broadened actually. Um to the point where someone might just say Oh, look somebody died You're like, yeah, what it's like, I guess it's gonna motivate a bunch of other people now, isn't it? Yeah, there's definitely an overlap here with what we were talking about earlier about like laziness versus like what should happen in a story Because it's actually meaningful I mean to to kill off a character just for the sake of making someone angry to get some action going is so Lazy, right? They kill me rather now they're gonna pay But like what what constitutes a meaningful death, right to to bring up You're talking about it in the first part where the little kid's brother dies in the Prologue or opening scene or whatever That kind of shapes him and it makes him afraid And it's that fear that the clown ends up taking advantage of and he overcomes that fear Like that that would be an example where the the death actually means something Another one is I was thinking of the end of the third Indiana Jones movie where the place is breaking up and that That chick falls in the pit and she's trying to reach for the I can't remember her name, but she's reaching for the holy grail and like Her reach exceeded her grasp and she she fell to her death and she let She yeah, she was she's overwhelmed by the the intoxicating power of that Grail and she tried to grab it and she died as a result and that there's something to that It actually means something especially in the beat after that where indiana jones isn't the same perilous situation And you don't want him to make the same mistake And he doesn't that's good shoot Yeah She was you gotta make your deaths mean something else. It was just like i'm pissed off now. I gotta I gotta kill these bastards. She was that highlights the premise I guess that highlights the point though isn't it's like we need if we're gonna say that the trope is like When someone dies and then it motivates the character or if that's what it becomes it's like So we have missed something here like something's gone wrong um We've now we've now taken something where it's like, okay So maybe it'd be a good idea when you're writing a story not to just have like some really flat generic woman character Who dies and then it makes our main character go wrong. I'm gonna get you Like maybe you should actually try and give her a personality or like develop her or even think about other options that you have To make this story happen Um, but once it becomes like oh, so when you kill somebody and that motivates the character then it's a trope. It's like Oh, so like Many stories that are good. Like just I know Like this you just you just made this way too broad right, yeah Uh fridging is often given a very negative connotation as it is all too often a hallmark of supremely lazy writing Quickly hurting or killing an established character as cheap anger for the protagonist and devaluing the life of that character in the process That is what I completely agree with especially how characters feel Um, you know, like your can be their wife dies They kill the guy who killed the wife and then they're totally happy you'd be like No, that's not quite right, is it? It's like when you want to show that the bad guy's bad he like Kills a dog or something like that. Like how can we just quickly establish this guy's your dogs Fridging you don't fridge your dogs. Oh, I mean Yeah, but I guess that's interesting right because like you look at john wick It's like we're so it wasn't just about the dog. So it's like that's an interesting example of fridging your dog where You know, we haven't bridged your dog at all. That's actually a purpose behind it Yeah, the dog came from a specific place. It had exactly I guess that's the point though, right is that When when it's like, oh, that's a trope. It's like, well it Give it give it more thought, you know, like think about what else is going on in the story John wick and the green lantern. I haven't read the comic, but presumably it's the thinnest possible iteration. I imagine it is if they both qualify on the trope because because that's what people are going to be Saying right like to clarify it has to be that it's you know got these other errors to it but We may discover today That some other things get put under the umbrella the word maybe they fucking shouldn't be uh So, you know not foreshadowing it all there But uh, it's because I'll say devaluing the life that character in the process instead of giving the villain Something actually interesting to do that can involve all three characters and more emotions than simple anger and angst that feels a little bit like The person writing this Just involve their own writing advice, which is that Never kill the person. You can do more with three people, which is really stupid advice. I think like Is it I think it's just it's more complicated than that. It's like you could but you could kill them like that's it You do more with four or five Depending on your fucking writing abilities, you can do more with two than with three You know in terms of who they are where they come from and all that So just because there's more people doesn't necessarily mean you have more content to work with Um, no means more problems to solve potentially potentially Down with the writer Um, it should be noted that while the term mostly commonly applies to male characters female love interest It can be used for numerous different scenarios of all genders and different relations from romantic platonic and familial The core part is that one character is killed or at least has something very bad happen to them for the sake of causing emotional trauma For the target with said victim often acting as a plot device more than a real character in worst-case scenario So that's like I think the heart of the criticism. They weren't a person They were just a thing that was supposed to Um make a different character do something Yeah, which I think is fair, um I think that's totally fair because you could always think about it like let's Cause fridging doesn't mean killing it could also mean hurting So like I don't know let's imagine we have hero man And then I don't know his daughter like his turn is basically paralyzed by the villain on purpose And it's like how much time do we get to spend? Seeing the perspective of the daughter after that happens if it just happens and then she disappears to the side While like the dad goes off to kill everybody. It's like You know, you could do something with that character It'd be interesting to see what her perspective is and whether or not she feels like she still has agency How much she participates in the story? What influence she might have over like the main character's choices by interacting with them in the future? It's like Yeah, you do have options that are worth considering What about a story that is from the POV of the villain? And the villain needs hero man To get angry and try and attack him for whatever reason, you know, you can make it up And so we're seeing the villain and he's like, what can we do? And this villain has a lot of power and he's just like kill his wife if he has one Let's wipe her out and make sure he knows it was us And then you know that scene happens with the hitman doing that and then you know again POV villain So the hero is just trying to get to him at all times. It's like, well, that's that's the worst kind of the trope That woman wasn't even a character and it's like, but what if in that scenario Like the story isn't about that woman But you know that killing a wife of a person who loves them is going to motivate them to do stuff You know what I mean? Yeah If especially if it's from his perspective, he didn't care. Yeah, the villain doesn't give a fuck about it I don't care what her personality is. I don't care if he likes Jenga or whatever the fuck women do so I wonder If we because even the qualification of what you can tell if the woman really didn't have a character I'd be like, is that bad? Hmm all the time Every single very damn day I suppose someone could argue it's like, well, if you'd given a character I would have cared more about hero man And his relationship to her and stuff and I'd be like, sure, but does the story become bad? Especially when the POV of the villain You don't even necessarily have to care about her you have to care that he cares Yes, yeah, that's that is kind of yeah I'm trying to think if I know that there is there's got to be examples of this We're like stories start out and we get like very little In terms of the relationship of the character and the the people, you know, like, um, you guys see the tom jane punisher With john yeah, I have yeah, we get what like I don't know five ten minutes of him with his family members Hero, yeah Yeah, and like the person I think we get the most of is him with his dad And that's still like or his wife, I think his wife and his dad and it's like they're the ones that get a little bit more time But they're all wiped out And he doesn't forget that throughout the entire movie, right? And so the the two components of Just because they're avenged doesn't mean you stop caring Like I agree with that one But the other one of those people have to be characters on their own Like I wonder how far you would need to push that in order to make it meaningful when we all know that, um You have someone you love in your life It's gonna motivate you to do x do you have to know that person's character? I wonder I'm not sure I don't I I guess it's just what yeah, like and I mean we could even push it further What if the story begins with them already dead? And then you just entirely progress from there and that's the choice you've made It's like is that fridging and if so can you qualify that as being a necessarily bad choice? When it comes to that particular story Well, yeah, because uh, we kill Bill starts with uh Kill Bill starts with the brides That's why people are essentially dead Yeah, you're right. Uh, and we didn't really get Their relationship that much in terms of the two movies you get I think one scene of looking at them together You're just like I believe that she really loved this guy That's that is what is important Um Well, so that's funny because I'm pretty sure I'm not hundred percent I'd have to watch it again, but I think the point was less so being with that guy and it was more so getting away from bill because Um, even bill calls her out that he doesn't think that those two have a relationship that's meaningful It's that she doesn't want the baby to be brought up by bill There's that um But that doesn't I mean not knowing the relationship you have with that guy or the family around them or the town that she's in I don't think it makes it any less meaningful And so because a lot of people say in surely it's contextual like with all of these and it's like yeah I think so and I think that's how we should treat basically everything and so tropes can become Infectious in terms of it's like, uh Almost like shorthand for criticism, but it's like no no no no you need to do more work every time most of the time Every time 90% of the time Um anyway That's enough of us talking about it. Let's listen to someone else talk about it now this channel Um, I've already seen loads of people in chat saying have you guys not checked out here? Mary sue video apparently like I have not but people have said she said that rey doesn't qualify which That was so she does I mean She's almost made it so that she's the archetype now She's the poster child for Mary Suri. Yeah Like I don't necessarily care to use the phrase, but I mean if we're gonna talk about it like yeah We can go look at the qualifications and like rey I'm I'm wondering even if she didn't qualify originally she's changed what it means to be a Mary Sue at that point regardless But I'm pretty sure she does qualify I mean if she's not a Mary Sue, yeah name one Um, yeah, so I don't know uh Because this channel has been recommended in terms of like an e-fab gas before so this you know I'm pretty sure anyway. I'm sure people have asked to get them on and stuff and it's just like all right Well, you know still may be in future if they're up for it, but uh They put out this video like said a friend of mine was like Oh, man This isn't this bad. I was like well, let's Check it out. It's called. Um trope talk fridging And so we're gonna learn about fridging and how to how not to and stuff in a nice little presentation See if we agree or don't Already Oh, wait, is it paused? Oh your deaths are a big deal There's a case video was sponsored by world anvil 100 guaranteed to not do Yeah, okay. Is there is it working for everyone else because it was just doing yeah Yeah, yeah, it's on it. It's on a world envelope right now. All right. Let's turn to zero here we go Video was sponsored by world anvil 100 guaranteed to not do terrible things to supporting characters I don't want that So I was gonna say I hate I hate to pause already, but Doing horrible things to supporting characters. Is that bad? I don't yeah, sometimes supporting characters need to get fucked up. Yeah can happen Be horrible, but you know that could have meant anything. So we'll just let it continue This before its own trope talk, but character deaths are a big deal They're momentous occasions both in story and out. This is uh, this is a total tangent, but I would I'm trying to like I'm trying to So yeah, you've already jumped the gun a bit. I'm trying to listen to relaxing nintendo music And it's very hard to do that when the video that we're watching is going to have the Completely agree It's it's it's a topic for us all Uh, when you picked say you started out in 2008 Really early and you were like I do a show. Uh, well not a show a video series. I guess where It's always within a particular context or framing for example trope talk and you're like, yeah, I always use this track It's the trope talk track or something like that. I always I always dream scape my 009 sound systems Um, like uh, like how someone who said this song is a trope. It's like, yeah So I've heard that before there was like, yeah, but that's the that's the this tune And I just wonder sometimes I'm just like, but it wasn't at one point you made it that and now that's like almost an excuse so that you never have to think about the music Is that good? Like, uh, surely you want to pick the music a better associated with the content It's almost like don't need don't even pick music pick a pick a noise almost like just a like a It's barely even a melody. It's almost like a um like Like you can't because you don't want to have someone try and pay attention to a melody Instead of listening to you it's almost like Yeah, like an ambient sort of Tones or what barely constitutes as a melody something very simple and soft in the back Something that's uh, not too punchy um Because if someone's trying to be like, oh, what's that music in the back and their their mind is focused on identifying the notes of the melody Distracts from your words. I think uh, I think there's a lot of uh, hey, you could have well You can't have chill nintendo music that get in trouble But like, you know something similar to that like those donkey kong country sort of just like the underwater the chill ones that are pretty uh Like slow and and come you got options. Um, you don't need to always use Or the Do Like you can pick different ones. All right, then burn it to my head. They are a little bit. Yeah Well, I recommend against them because they um, they're like signals to you that this is a video of many if you know what I mean Rather than its own thing Uh, yeah, someone someone in chat said, oh like video gameplay rags No, it is not like video gameplay Because Because if you don't look at the video gameplay, it ceases to exist It cannot even possibly be a distraction if you don't even want to look at it We've talked about that on party faps because we the problem is music not all gameplay is made the same way Um A lot of people just throw gameplay in a lot of people choose gameplay to put in Difference being the interesting gameplay or not and that's definitely a um A choice as well because most people it seems consume youtube videos that even fucking looking at them these days, uh A lot too interesting and its actual relevancy to what you're talking about, right? Well, yeah, because this is all under the guise of like tropes, I guess because people say it are pausing the videotrope Yep Same old same old I want this video just for its music to just be fringy going Oh my god, should that be a um, should that be the next gadel background music fringy doing that? I could I could probably come one. Yeah, just record it for like a fella 30 seconds and then we can just loop it One Well now that you've thrown that out, that's definitely what's gonna be happening. I feel like all of chat. Well, yeah, there they go I'll have to let myself know where I found so this does this song have a name does anyone know Just maybe it's in the description of the video it could be from like a youtube library or something You never know I guess it is the uh, yeah, I wonder if anyone in chat knows the song name Sheaming weasel, uh, that's what scheming weasel. Sheaming scheming weasel I hate it. Is is that a that weasel is gonna sheam I hate it when my weasel's sheam Is there anything I would heaming weasel? That's the thing I would say The sheaming with what were you thinking weasel? Did you think it was like a tavern? You hadn't seen before or something. Why would you say? I don't know how I mistook sheaming and scheming I'll get a dive bar the sheaming weasel. It's very early. All right, let's be gentle be gentle Sheaming his machinations yes Hey, you should put that in godel sheaming Sheaming Oh, you think I haven't already there's a tight space. I have to sheam through There it is Moller that godel video is fucking hilarious man. There's four of them. There's gonna be a fifth one soon enough Okay, I gotta watch those They they basically just like a look back on the year of evap at this point, uh I'm fucking insane shit. We come out how many can you remember? Get your beef at pingo card Their momentous occasions both in story and out because the character dead which is obviously a bummer on its own But it also means the total loss of all future potential for a given character All there you say that that's not true. That's not true That's just flat out. Not true. I don't know if you'll try to be more funny there But I was I was specifically thinking about, you know ghosts resurrections They've left shapes and stuff behind or they've left messages or they've given instructions Like the impact of that character isn't gone when they die necessarily They get obi-wan. Yeah, I like I don't think I don't even know what he said. I was listening to the music because we were talking about it for so long She she said that what a character dies their impact is gone and it's like no No, that that's what it starts. That's that's that's that is I think she was saying like their ability to I think the I mean they can't do any more or what she said is that they can't do anything else Oh for sure, but it also isn't true. Yeah, which is also not true But even if they can't you could have a character who just keeps getting referenced and talked about that's dark Yeah, the idea being that their presence is still there even if they themselves are gone Like who they are Or just a die is the easy part. It's like, yeah, fucking green arrow and he died. He came back as a spooky ghost Yeah, he did the face laser so Listen, if infinititisms have taught us anything, it's that this video is wrong Obviously a bummer on its own But it also means the total loss of all future potential for a given character All their arcs dynamics relationships everything all lost in exchange. No, that's just wrong, but that's fine Now most authors recognize hefty loss for their story so they make damn sure the Also, not true either the one-shot gut punch. Uh, someone could have a slow lingering death. Yep Um, if you have a character who's who succumbs to an illness if that illness is a prolonged affair That can wear down on a character over time There is a there is a current reference that I can't use Joker exactly um Uh, you could you could argue the father a film is just he's deteriorating until he's gonna die. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely The entire story is just a portion of his transition from life to death pretty much Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm or that knight in montipython that gets his arms and legs cut off Last night its impact hasn't stopped just yet Oh, yeah, so eventually walter whites like I mean I guess so yeah because that's that's a The impact of that news as well, you know, yeah Recognize that this is a hefty loss for their stories Sure, the impact is worth the price true non fake out main character deaths are often heroic sacrifices protracted tragedies Or carefully woven resolutions to their arcs after all the loose ends have been tied up They're usually given time and narrative weight to reflect this cost The surviving characters will process their grief reflect on what the loss means to them and are often fundamentally changed by the experience Agreed with all of that Yeah, yeah, fair enough Maybe carrying on their legacy setting off on a lengthy quest showing their layered and complex life as a personal inspiration to guide Their way forward. This is not that trope Fridging is the cute shortened form of the full name of this trope stuffed in the fridge named for a now infamous issue of A green lantern comic where green lantern kyle reiner's girlfriend is murdered by the villain major force and stuff I guess it is. I don't know I've not read it. I don't know if it's like bad But like stuffing a person in a fridge doesn't you know to me. I'm just like that could still be good Sounds pretty fucking horrible. Like I don't know Yeah, good. Yeah Fridge for him to find when he gets home fridging is the very set of character deaths Where in a character is unceremoniously and brutally killed specifically and solely for the narrative purpose of hurting another Well, I didn't know it had to be brutal It was it's weird that she said that instead of just saying Because the important part I thought that what she was going to say was just that it's done specifically to make a character A bit more about so it's like however they die isn't relevant. Is it like if it's brutal or not if they just Yeah, what if it's like a cancer or a you know something like that I was actually about to say what is a non brutal death because brutal can be used to You know for chopping them up into tiny pieces or shot through the head like someone could call both of those brutal. So I'm just like Um, yeah, I guess a non brutal death would be like a Like passing away in your sleep, you know, yeah Which could happen to motivate a character to do xyz so like you I assume the brutality of the death is irrelevant Right, I would assume it's irrelevant as well That's my I think it's odd that that was brought up as a prerequisite for fridgery So is it possible to not have a brutal death at the hands of another person? Is it make it so they could inject you with something and you just slowly pass away or something? Yeah, I guess I mean it would be weird to describe that as brutal, but I guess someone might I don't know mm-hmm Brutally killed specifically and solely for the narrative purpose of hurting another more important character This motivation can be watsonian or doilist as an in-universe villain motivation or out of universe authorial intent In watsonian cases the killer is specifically motivated to kill the fridgy because it'll hurt the character who cares about them In doilist cases the killer might have all kinds of personal reasons to want to unceremoniously brutalize All right a character death that happens only to upset a more important character fridges or plant vices Don't get some experience there gravitas as a major character death would be given I think there's just an omen of practices If they die and then like that's the break in the story that causes the whole thing to happen that that's like significant Because a character can die unceremoniously, but that could have incredible impact to other people This is where we're going to get into a big problem Like you think about like in tarantino films one of like the big things in those is that characters just die Like the main characters will just die instantly Like unceremoniously because they don't spend much time on and they'll just die Is that bad? Pulp fiction is that what you're thinking of there? I guess that's probably the clearest example, right? It's like, yeah, he's there and then he's dead Like just like that and and that's it Well, um, yeah, because I don't need to justify it But like what was really cool about that is that we had him as pov for a while Then we switched to a different pov and that character is now completely unimportant to This new pov if you know what I mean, and so he can just be wiped out like any other thug Yeah, and and that's just um One of the reasons why that's like that's just I think that stories could honestly stand to have more unceremonious deaths rather than less I think that um Because people do just die like sometimes it happens and it's quick and it's sudden And like it, you know, there's there's not much of a reason for it. Oh, man. I just shot Marvin in the face It's more often than not that when there is like a death in a story that it is super important Then it gets a lot of focus and it gets um, you know And everybody's really sad or it happens really slow or they get to die really slowly whereas not important characters get shot in the head or something um Like that that is more of a thing that happens than characters I guess we'll have to see where where this argument goes Well, Quentin Tarantino does a good job of making sure all his characters in his films are properly motivated So if one person kills another person you usually understand why they were killed even if there's not much to it Like if if they're at least motivated to kill that person you'd be like, okay, he's dead now. I get it That's fine. Like I agree with this uh girl's first point here like a character death that happens only to upset If it's only too upset and that's it and that's the only element going into the screenplay to like To to make somebody kill someone else and it's not even motivated by character. It's just to like make things happen That's dumb. What is the villain's motive? um Well, hopefully there would be an extra layer to it Then just that if like because it should tie into the theme somehow I mean not not in every case like in in some key moment where like the main character is affected at the end of act two Or something. There's a death involved in that low point. Let's just call the opening of the film Villain needs hero to be angry and try and attack him in order to he's going to frame him for something He's like, how do we do it? It's like just fucking kill his wife. Whatever And that that happens off screen because we're doing like I said the villain pov So it just it would it would satisfy this definition And I don't know that we can just say oh well, that's bad It's like is it? right um because I was thinking about daredevil season two Uh, we see punisher in his like prime and then we find out later that like people were killed in in particular circumstances I don't know that we ever learn The meaningful relationship he had with his family, you know beyond sort of in in that show anyway In that show you don't know and so like I don't consider that bad And if someone said yeah, but they died just to motivate him to be to be this punisher character that everyone wants to see and I should be like, okay, but Is that bad? Or is it just neutral and like whether I guess into good or bad becomes a matter of execution specifically Because if someone said like, yeah, well, you still do find out bits and bobs about them and stuff And I'd be like, yeah, so I guess what makes it What crosses the line, you know, how how much information do you need to know about these characters that died before they get for it to be okay? um So to say it only happens to motivate a more important character. I should be like, I mean, yeah, that could work. I think um Some people are referencing uncle ben does that do you think that qualifies? The character death that only happens to motivate a more important character It's like to a degree and I you know, I think the uncle ben stuff is pretty damn good when it's executed. Well Well, here's one urskine is that fridging urskine because he dies specifically to motivate caps in america I imagine cap was motivated regardless, but it definitely But like yeah urskine death is specifically to to like instill fun a core like thing for him, right? I guess But then somebody would be like well urskine's death means there's no super soldier serum So it's like there was another reason for it Hmm That's well uncle ben's death is symbolic of the fact that spider-man had the capacity to do something and he didn't because he acted Selfishly, okay, that that was a real real meaningful And so what I would say but like, you know like the punisher one If all we ever knew about the people who died in his life that motivated him to become who he was Was that they were killed by a criminal who was set free after a certain amount of time and therefore matches punishers sort of perspective Is that enough To say that it now qualifies not as fridging right um Because I agree the uncle ben's death is supposed to relate thematically to the entire point of spider-man's Journeys like all of them to responsibility, but Um, you could still say it's still a death that motivates spider-man to do xyz Right Yeah, I guess the the lesson in the case of the punisher isn't So obvious or there's not really much to it other than my loved ones are gone. I'm going to make the criminals pay Um, but I don't think it's necessarily bad if it's shallow Um, I guess I guess that would be the thing is like even even if it's flat And and I guess at that point it's like so could you do it better? It's like, yeah, probably sure. I guess it's just um Bad Like at that point because if this is bad So a character death that happens only to upset a more important character it's like I I guess I I want to know what only means because if it means it can't have if it has nothing to do with the theme Then it's fridging and I should be like man. It does feel like that's an easy escape hatch All I have to do is make it like Um, you know like low keys someone reference low keys death and in infinity wall If someone said that's fridging and I go well, no, it's on theme because low key sacrificed himself In a sense to try and rescue Thor which is something that everyone's doing in that film They're giving up their lives and the stones in order to save individuals when the whole world is at stake And it's just it's a commentary on human nature and stuff Um, does that then make it not fridging? Some people are referencing Batman's parents. It's like were they fridged and it's like well thematically again Like it's all about uh crime and and what I could do to a person. I guess I It's a little bit complicated At that point could you develop a thematic through line for any example if you really wanted to Like even even the green lantern one is there something in the store? It's like, ah, see You know loved ones die and that that changes you that's the theme gotcha. So it wasn't it wasn't purposeless You know like so what you've seen Vincent from I am at one. It's Jensen not Vincent Jensen not Vincent Vincent he looks like a Vincent. I get but again if you if you looked at like Jensen you could just say um But like he helped build the suit so like there there is a there was a broader world impact that Jensen had Yeah, I guess that's he gives us. It's a very hard motivation in in a sentence, right? Like Yeah, sure. I I'll uh, even even if you I guess that's the thing is like it's very uncommon that you will have a person who exists in like reality Who will only affect one person? Um, or will only have relevance to one person In in a story like you could always find. Yeah I guess that's a problem with these like This particular definition is you're trying to figure i'm just trying to figure out ways that it breaks. It feels like there are a lot um Because like look don't get the same exploration death or gravitas as a major character death would be given It's like if a death of a character creates the story Does it not have much more gravitas than the death of the main character right at the end? Like the whole story doesn't happen without that. So is that it is odd that A part of this is they don't get the same gravitas as a major character. It's like that sounds categorical Yeah, if they are major they'll get a death that has more gravitas because and I guess here's the thing like given by whom Like what the gravitas by whom the story by the rito by who? Like who is the who is the what what do you mean when you say gravitas? Mm-hmm. I mean surely not every character Can be given not just for time and time constraints, but not every character's in there and their demise However, that may be is going to be given the same Yeah, I feel well. I mean now. I'm just thinking like here's one for you saving private ryan Did did ryan's brothers get fridge? Because they die specifically to kick off the plot to plot. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and like each of the members of the Yeah, each of their deaths last Longer and shorter not only based on how important they are but just the poignancy of their death in the storyline as well It's it's complicated Yeah, because I mean Because could you would you say like there is more gravitas given to uh wade's death compared to um Jackson because jackson just gets blown up in the in the church tower But but then it's like well, what do you mean gravitas because there's a difference wade's death is like really protracted and really sad It's just really really sad Whereas like jackson gets this crazy heroic last stand In the tower and then we get extra elements of his character the fact that he yells to the other guy to get out Because he's more concerned about him than his own life and it's like well, what is gravitas really? What does it mean when we're comparing these is complicated because I love see we're seeing prime ryan is one of the best movies ever made. Yeah. Yeah, but um Jackson's death to me it always matched because he's like an unstoppable force throughout the story He never gets hurt and he just fucking wrecks everybody. He's incredibly calm and yeah Yeah, it's straightforward and then it's just like he's winning winning with dead And just like yeah, fuck Well, yeah, you you get those um because I mean I I always think because just I you think about in that movie um Because you see it like in the in the opening battle where there are people who just die and they're dead And then there's not any thought given to them for like a very long time because it's just that's In this situation. You kind of can't do that Um, does that mean that this story is like Would we be saying that it's bad that like we have characters who um Because because one of the interesting things is like if you pan closer attention like saving private ryan There are characters who are like important in world who die in that sequence and you wouldn't know it because they just die and then that's it um Is that bad because that would have happened because in reality You're not a protagonist in reality. You're just like a person among other people in this world And it reality doesn't like recognize your significance um In a narrative sense like depending on who's peer over you or whatever Um, so yeah, some people are just gonna die and they're not gonna get as much exploration death or gravitas Somebody said you're thinking too much about it when you give people writing rules You better have fucking thought about them about it. I'm What do you mean with we've only talked about it for like 10 minutes Well, I I don't care if we talk about this for 10 hours. It doesn't fucking matter to me This is fundamental. We're talking about character deaths Do you know how important those are to storytelling? And and you know what when you're working on your story, you'd want to think about it as much or more like She really should Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm not a fan of her second fridging point because the implication seems to be that uh Like if if every death isn't treated with the same level of gravitas, then it's fridging This kind of reminds me of when we were talking about the orcs And like the representation of orcs and how it's like racist because they're always like evil Whatever that means, yeah Yeah, but it's this idea that every character needs to be like equally complex. Otherwise, it's racist because you're you're Prioritizing one character or a group of characters over another and uh, that's yeah The the the just just just one sec just just one sec sorry got two or three people already saying She gets into this for fuck's sake stop like let her speak like Welcome new viewer Maybe you're new here. No, no, no, no John like this happens every time we cover a Like content creator. They don't know that that's not how we do things here. We um, right We listen and say for example, she says everything on this list that you're seeing right now is bullshit We'll be like, oh, okay, cool That's that's what we'll say, but if she doesn't that just continue So yeah, welcome to eFap new viewers. Lovely to see you. We're gonna be talking about fridging today. Um And we're right now. We're just regarding these three points. She's got on this little slide that we're able to look at Uh Sorry, yeah go right ahead Yeah, the the point where a death bothers me and I think it would become fridging Is when I don't understand why somebody died or like usually it's a handsome another person And I don't understand why that person killed The other person like in the case of this green lantern fridge thing. I'm curious about the context of it like, you know, maybe uh If it was some kind of ice themed villain You know who like stuffs the the the girl in the fridge and like I wonder if there's something that happened Before this beat that kind of contextualized it makes it a little bit meaningful other than just like, ha I'm a bad guy and I killed someone close to you even though. I'm not really invested You know, like I had no reason to kill this person, but I just wanted to upset you Like that that would that would be a bad. There are a couple of John Wick clones now already And uh, I think that if we were all watching a movie And there's this character who's got a history of violence, but they've got a loving family and everything's great And like they have scenes that are just so poorly put together. It's like hello husband. Isn't it great? How happy we are. Hello child. Yes. Oh, I love you child It's been fun making pancakes parody of world war z And then yeah, someone burst in guns everything down everyone's killed except main character who severely wounded They're crying and then I killed your family come and get me I bet you love them loads. I bet I bet you thought your old life wasn't gonna catch up with you Yeah, you got uh, you got the McBain thing. Yep two days from retirement. Uh, just christen the boat. It's called live forever Yeah Just shoot some damn damn damn McBain. I'm not gonna make it. Don't don't talk crazy It's like just do one thing for me get man doza and McBain screaming to the app Doza Like that's a good article as well I don't want to hear McBain that that Kennedy yours is against regulations in this department. We don't buy the book Buy book. Sorry. I'll stop So the uh, yeah, the thing to come away with is We the this could have happened to us. We would see that shitty movie that I reference whatever it may be And we see like four of them in a row and then we go, you know what? This is a trope and this is bad and this is how it's qualified and then you accidentally include things that are actually fucking excellent Yeah, yeah, that seems to be how this this has happened Yeah, uh That last point I just realized all the things I had to say you you all mentioned while I was waiting for a gap for me to talk So I have nothing to add The third point is mostly afflicts secondary characters or characters that writer considers broadly unimportant to the story She said well Deaths that counters fritting mostly happen to non-main characters. It's just like yeah Well, so we're running into a few problems broadly unimportant if you kick off the plot you are very important Yeah, I was about to say that's the part that sticks out to me is almost like you you even highlighted it in red But that's kind of a contradiction to the whole point of fridging. Yeah, the whole point is that they are very important as a massive plot device Yeah, I do agree. No generally happens to secondary characters But that's just generality if we're being as kind as possible. Maybe she means excluding that portion of them They don't have any importance other than that Well, yeah, I guess excluding this extremely necessary important thing. Yes And I guess uh, also we need to figure out what our definitions of secondary are because Those definitions can vary because I would say that a villain is not secondary for the most part Like if like if you've got your primary characters, that's like your hero your villain Probably your judo dragon or something. There may be one more person then secondary is like the one below that Well, let's take um, let's on that note. Let's take a new hope You have uh, luke's parents potentially Luke's parents get fried up And you also have obi one So it can be both of them get killed to motivate luke true. Absolutely. Yeah, was alderaan fridged I don't know That's one she's thinking about because yeah, by the way, someone said that's what she means It's like so why didn't she write that? Why didn't she see it? So I'm not I'm no mind reader Uh But if if it's important see here's thing. I use a whiteboard in my videos now More of those coming soon. That's why they spend it the way. However Uh, that's that's what I really make sure that what goes on that whiteboard what I am highlighting Textually that I'm saying is it's doubly accurate Uh, if if you're gonna if you're gonna bring it up in this manner, it had better be Accurate if that's not what you mean Don't fucking put it on the whiteboard and highlight it as important because it's not only on the whiteboard It is in red as opposed to black text Which means it's extra important I think if a writer writes a story and they consider one or more of their characters is broadly Unimportant then maybe they made a mistake and that character shouldn't be there because like You don't put a character in a story unless they serve some role like they should all be important It's just they're they are of varying degrees of importance. Do you have an important character? They just shouldn't be there if we have just like an opening bossy That there's just this there's four couples all around and like just chilling out And we get to know like mainly one of them who's making a lot of jokes and blah blah And then someone comes in to fucking mug the place and he just shoots everywhere and His girlfriend gets shot in the head. We didn't even know it that much, but he's just like shocked and distraught And like does this if someone was like We didn't even know her fridging. I'm just like, well, wait, I don't even we don't even know this is going yet like I don't know. I would I would just say it's still relatable Like you still get you still can feel something about this Well, I think if you see some like you don't go out the street and someone in front of you gets shot in the face He's just like, I don't know that guy. Fuck this. I'm just gonna go home. It's like that's not how that works like this There's still a reaction you have to that kind of thing I think it's still relatable if some some character Reacts to this even if it's a secondary character that's unimportant to the story Which he then is not anymore because the character does do something about it. I guess Yeah It kind of reminds me that movie half baked where there's that that guy who like a roommate Who's just like constantly sleeps on the couch. He's always in the background He'll only like occasionally ever chime in on in some scenes and like I think he does have a role in the story At some point, but it's just like Just an unimportant background character. It's like, why is he even there? Like just get rid of him like they should all every character should like there's a reason for everything Being in a story every single element not just characters Um someone mentioned the girlfriend in the boys was fridged now. You talk about season one or two Because she technically dies twice in a sense um First death if we're talking about that it's we finally find out. Why is butcher doing everything that he's doing? He says his wife was raped and killed presumably by a homelander And like that for me when I was first watching it I don't need to know the relationship between butcher and his wife to know why he's motivated now And if someone said yeah, but that's fridging. I'd be like, I don't I don't know why I have to know Why is that a bad thing? Why do I have to know her exactly? I understand this person That just I think that's because I wonder if we're gonna talk about it in this video Like if it's gonna get brought up It's worthwhile to consider why it's such a common storytelling device to have somebody that a person cares about Diet and that motivate them like I Everyone's saying it's huge girlfriend. So there's more with his than with butchers in season one You get you get more they we get to see them together Yeah, they have scenes together whereas we have no we we have like we only get scenes In the flashbacks with uh butcher's wife People like not butchers like well butcher would be worse by this definition. So why aren't we talking about that one? Yeah It's you guys starting to see why like analyzing stories through the lens of tropes can be just like really difficult to be ass That's just us. Yeah It's because it's basically because she's a woman. Okay. I'm good. Well. What's going on in chat right now? What's what's happening here? because Yeah, Huey's uh, I love that one. I think it's great like these two normal people who just have a relationship the speeds to uh, which is something that Surprised me about the first episode. So it's just like yeah, that probably would happen eventually in a world of superheroes that shit's gonna happen It's horrifying if someone yeah, but she didn't really have a strong character. She's like, I don't know why she has to I don't know why That can't be the the exciting incident that we We have a whole story where like a whole episode where we spend with them and then it ends like that Is that necessarily better? Just because it's fridging doesn't mean it's bad. I'm pretty sure the whole point being made here is you shouldn't fridge And if people are saying you shouldn't do something like I don't know You got a lot of work ahead of you. Yeah I think the sentence you shouldn't fridge sounds funny to me. I don't know why Don't put stuff in the fridge Don't fridge you guys But it just got groceries. Let me get some help Label of fridgeed himself I wonder Author's motivation in killing the character is only to make the Character upset the only narrative role this death plays in story is hurting a different character and it's still framed as unceremonious and brisk fridging almost Not necessarily. I mean we've already disagreed with basically all of your points. So we'll just keep going Those are bad points moving on ways refers to character deaths But sometimes the character is instead subjected to some kind of horrible torture or fate worse than death with the victim survives But it's very badly hurt mentally and or physically focus is still on anyone but the victim Right, so the idea would be like you I don't know you have like some guys like my wife, you know Yeah, or like she you know something bad happened or she's like basically got PTSD and we don't focus on her at all I guess the problem is it's like I would prefer that you would actually give her something but is it necessarily Can you necessarily not tell a story where you don't focus, you know Well, let's go with a coma example. I don't know if I just want to watch someone line. Yeah Line in a coma. Yeah Well, I guess the thing is what if we had it where it was different and she's just like She's just got trauma like meant she's uh, she's not in a good place mentally And then we just go and follow our main hero man And we like don't see her until the end you could make that really meaningful in the the hero does all this stuff To rectify the situation without realizing that being being with her was the thing he should have done Yes, I was about to say what a grim ending that he like gets revenge. Everything's put right They're all safe and she's like fucking killed herself or something because he wasn't yeah Because he wasn't there and he was so focused on getting vengeance that he didn't think about how he could have Stuck around and that's the thing about tropes You can they can build easy subversions by making people think that's what you're doing Sort of thing. Yes. No, that's right tropes can be an opportunity Um, yeah, those people are just referencing all kinds of media right now asking if this couch is bridging And it's like this is what this conversation does. It's just confusing now Yeah, bridging everywhere Because he got no and she's like, please just call an ambulance It's a fridging epidemic in media Same overall impact the character that really people say did I just describe physique? So I've already seen season one. I don't think that's happened at it. So I might be just I don't know what I wasn't referencing that specifically, but if that's what happens in it than neat That isn't the one targeted for the horror But the hero who's in the fridges personal reaction to their awful situation is usually glossed over in favor of how much that Focus character suffers by proxy because of reasons fridging. Well, if they're the protagonist, exactly We're gonna be focusing So I already see I already see something I disagree with female characters often secondary supporting roles. I is that Is that true or is that in specific? Well, so we got two things is that bad but But but broadly the thing I find more disagreeable is that true because I'm pretty sure it's not like I'm pretty sure that if you put all stories together That like that that that it would balance out and that Yeah, um Are you doing the thing that a lot of people do when they talk about video games most Protagonists and males like well most games don't have protagonists Most games do not have a protagonist like most of them is just you Like you're interfacing with a puzzle or like you're in a forex strategy game and you're like the grand Like this feels to me like female characters are more often secondary in speculative fiction or like in action stories Or something like that. Is this true? What if we included like all the stories like there are so many books Like there are so many books that just feel like the shows where the protagonist is female I I just don't know that I even agree with this the like female characters are often secondary This feels to me like you're just reading in a genre where that's more often the case and you're not thinking about all stories Yeah, I am yeah, I I could not hazard a guess. Um, if that's actually true or not Yeah, I don't know really because I'm thinking like well a lot of characters That are driven by action from characters necessarily might be more likely to be male Especially if we go back to like including stories from as early as they started but at the same time Yeah, I guess but we've got a lot of female centric stories as well So Talk about narratively disposable I don't think you'll find anyone fitting that role more so than the average guy in the background thugs soldiers They all just get wiped out and no one gives a fuck Practically every mook is a guy Well, I mean, I mean we'll just do the common one in action stories and games and stuff You're shooting guys Easily I remember when you kill let me tell you I distinctly remember when I played black ops 3's campaign and they were like women soldiers And then you shot them and then you hear a woman yell out. I was like, wait, what like that was That was Well, I guess that's what yeah Black widow right all of the female foot soldiers for drake of are considered these these victims that we have to rescue All of the men are wiped out. No one gives a fuck They are well, I mean and that's it's funny because they're behind masks to make it even easier Yep, you're right. Yeah, and that's that's a common one. Give make the men faceless and you kill them Oh, yeah, you know in the beginning was like dude I remember when like the controversy in Grand Theft Auto 5 when they were talking about like Oh, you know women and stuff. It's like dude Like I'm pretty sure there's only like two deaths that must happen that involve a woman in that game Everybody else is a guy Like who dies all of the people that you're shooting a guy is like in these confrontations Or like the villains that get killed are guys It's like, yeah, but you don't even think about it because it's just that's just how it works Like men are the people that you fight and kill And they have no relevance in the story at all like they're entirely just there to be killed their photo Um So I said you've got derailed for the main topic hard. We're literally on it. Oh no, not even but we're on it right now Even if that was true. Yeah. Um, and someone said that was very characters are more narratively disposable So that was deliberate in Black Widow as if that's a counter. It's like it's not deliberate They tell us that the widows are mind controlled. They do not tell us the men aren't But everyone assumes that they aren't so they just kill us they die in yeah And the reason why you assume they aren't is because they die and the story doesn't give them any consideration That's why no character ever says wait are those guys mind controlled should we save them? That's not deliberate. That's an accident from the shitty writing. They didn't realize they were like no I just foot soldiers guys. Don't worry about them. I don't know Because that's normal. It's normal to have men in the background and get shot because no one cares Oh, absolutely. If if you want to look at movies like I don't know like the league of extraordinary gentleman, right You have all of the crew of the nautilus their men A lot of them die you have all of the baddies in the helmets. They're all dudes and they all die. I don't give us a fuck Nobody cares fine. They're just disposable soldier men if you had a female soldier I feel like even the audience would be like, oh, and then she gets shot in the head or something We'd be like, oh, shit. Well, she's yeah, okay. Wow. Oh, no, which I guess that maybe that opens another interesting Can of worms there though, if doesn't it yeah, no Should that be the way that it is is that the way that it is for a reason and does that inform these tropes too as a sort of Counterbalance, yeah Right and as and when we talk about like the whole female characters are often in secondary blah, blah, blah, blah Um, so first of all, we we we don't even know if that's true. If I don't know that's true That would be which I'm not yeah, I'm definitely not ready to make that claim Are you implying that if it was the other way around it would be better? I think does it need to be even oh just she wanted to even well the idea is she's explaining How we got here non maliciously I guess because she's saying secondary characters are more disposable Okay, female characters are often secondary characters. So she's like these are the reasons why we ended up here You know lots of women in fridges, but I uh, I don't know the I think it's going to be a little bit more complicated than that and I do wonder Doesn't that expose that it shouldn't even be about women? It should be about characters that this happens to secondary characters. Can we not fridge secondary characters? I guess you're blocking out a lot of Like flaws in in in writing that because if someone's like well, I did it to a guy. So whatever it's like well I mean, isn't the point that you shouldn't do it to a character. It doesn't matter if they're a girl or a guy Well, surely if we're if I if if the problem is killing secondary characters only to push the main character forward Then it should be an egalitarian thing. Yeah, don't kill people to propel the main character forward in general overall period Yeah, it's not worse because it's one gender over the other. It's about what it what's the point with the context of the story right Um, this this keeps overlapping. We want to go ahead go ahead This keeps overlapping with the orc thing for me Like extra as extra credits problems seem to be that it's an issue that movies are focused in one particular direction on one particular Character and it's bad that every character in the movie isn't treated with equal focus And complexity. It's like well the story's not about them Like sorry like movies are about like Individuals well not every movie but like you see it on a lot of posters, right? You got the big guy in the middle or the woman like the big head face genders doesn't matter right as characters, right? You got a big character in the middle And then you got a bunch of secondary characters surrounding them that are kind of smaller in the poster and that kind of Encapsulates the story right where it's telling you here's the character we're focusing on And the reason we're doing that is to make a more central point clear Like are we supposed like in the the latest halloween movie? Like every one of like michael's victims that survives or something are we supposed to then follow them? And we have an entire sequence about them dealing with their trauma And like you could do that infinitely, you know, like it's not about exactly that That's kind of the thing is stories. There is a limited amount of space in a story Yeah, and you need to make decisions about who you're gonna focus on and You know just in general when it comes to like people and uh and like, you know Stories usually In fact, you could say almost ubiquitously have a main character the person who is the most important Like the one who it is about Um, and and of course, you know, like stories will a lot of stories have like two characters who are Basically the main characters like wallace and grommet are both the main character And if uh, but then again, you could argue that grommet is really the main character In terms of like his role in the narrative. I guess that's that's where part I guess interesting to think about Defining a protagonist sort of thing. Yeah, I've got to put up with this fucking cheese a file all the time and Whoa, yeah Well, yeah, but I guess that's the thing is like and now I'm just thinking about British comedies in faulty talents It's like basal faulty is the main character, but that doesn't mean that civil isn't also like a main character. Yeah Right, or uh, or I can't believe I'm mad or Manuel Like these are all main characters. I guess that's that's the point, right? It's like where you draw the line in terms of significance or importance and how much focus you should be giving to somebody It's it's vague. It can be difficult to figure out um Which is why I find these sort of very prescriptive writing rules to be restrictive and I don't know Yeah, well, let's be you know, maybe she's got a point that we're leading up to and so we're gonna make sense Well, yeah, I mean depending on if this idea is that you need to stop doing this you're gonna have to come up with an alternative Yeah, and you're gonna have to come up with a lot of alternatives because fridging is very common This little book. This is Aristotle on it Does she it just has our why it's just Well, it's it's it's about Aristotle by Aristotle Yes One word just It's too blurry for me, uh Here I can I can go to the main video. Yeah, I don't I don't think watch together does 1080. It like reduces it Also, why is there like a white outline around the black outline on the uh, Character complete works of Shakespeare. I think Yeah Ah, okay. I got that Can I scroll before the the Odyssey the Aeneid that's I I can't pronounce that one correctly in the iliad Yeah, so we've got Machiavelli Just Machiavelli That's not what library. It's called the prince, but okay That's what is actually maybe well, maybe he wrote other, you know, he wrote a autobiography called Machiavelli Maybe he did it. I'm gonna look really stupid. Hold on. What this one says library library stacking for dummies And the the pit and the no The yeah the one on its side on the third or on the second row I can't or the second shelf. I can't quite in the third one either. I can't make that one out Or the little ones. Yeah, I look at the books and yes. Yeah Okay Yeah, it's weird that a lot many of them are about the some of the smaller ones have texts and some of the bigger ones don't Yeah, yeah, what's with the blue one being blank? I want to know what the blue one on the bottom right is come on Oh, that's uh, it's mark twain. Oh, right Disproportionately affects female characters often barely developed mons or love interests Who's only salient character traits are the hero likes them? So when they're brutalized or murdered often off No, usually that's right. They're like just a really good person. There's a normal good person. I have very thin but fine I still don't know that I would complain at that point. I need You know, like the example we gave it was like clunky as fuck dialogue and like a blatant Um, sort of yeah, we know exactly what they're doing, right? There's no You can see right through it. Yeah Yeah, also, it's not a trait of yours that somebody likes you That that's totally independent of you. So it's that's not a trait of yours Yeah, because they could like you even if you're a horrible person. So Well, I could like you would not even know you and you might not even want attributes Not what other people think of you. Yeah, I suppose someone could say you are you are likable. That's one of your traits Yeah, yeah, that's different from what she said though Okay, so now I'm getting a little bit annoyed because I feel like I should pause every time she brings up a new screen to read it first Would it hit the same if it happened off screen is the only audience impact how much subsets the character when they find out But I you've just highlighted a point in favor of like Yeah, I think this is the options that you have this attacks her point overall because is it bad for that to happen if someone dies off screen Do you know who died off screen? It was incredibly fucking meaningful I'm gonna Aunt Peru and Well, I guess you could say that's off screen, but you saw the corpses. What I'm saying is you don't even see the person at all ever Oh Uncle Ben and uh And spider-man homecoming war Civil war. I don't know. I mean to a degree. Okay. I just you know, my example is going to be Owen from Blymanna We all have examples. Yeah We're at uh, oh and from from what sorry Blymanna. Um his mom. Oh, okay. He talks about her a lot in the story And at one point she dies and it's done through a phone call and we never actually see her or anything. It's just like Damn Yeah, it hits really hard and so the law the logic of would it have been the same hit if it happened off screen I was like, I don't even know what you think you're proving with this Well, yeah, because deaths can happen on screen that are pretty like it's just like, okay But then you can have a death that happens off screen But because of the writing surrounding it it's just way more impactful Whether it happens on or off screen should not be determining your level of empathy necessarily It depends on the quality of the writing Mm-hmm. Yeah None of you getting the point of this video. This is like addressing individual points. It's like you're missing the overall point This happens every time we cover somebody for the first time or like whenever I remember specifically high top Let him finish his points on homecoming. It's like man. This level of charitability It was just a high top is a cloud level for efab now like nobody's gonna be defending anymore Especially after the fucking one to woman video but chat remember back then we got a shit ton of blowback for for being critical of high top Same for filmento. He's also in cloud territory now Um, it's silly boy And it's interesting to me because they do the whole you know, you're missing the forest for the trees It's like, you know what a forest is made of the forest. No, fuck that. Just say you know what a forest is made of It's made of trees that bitch has made of trees I No, I I like you missing the trees for the forest. I I like that one now. It's like look at this forest It's like but the trees were rotting and they're like falling down and they're just They're bleeding the trees are bleeding. You're missing the forest though. Oh, yeah Also random commenter feel free to let us know what the point it is that we're missing Instead of just saying we're missing the point Clearly you think that we don't know what the point is and you it would be helpful Yeah, you clearly know something that we do not know I would love to be imparted by uh with this knowledge that you have Please tell us the point that we are missing I'm very curious. They're not sure they're not sure if she's saying it's a bad thing. So Uh, she's saying to the trope talk like avoid this trope is the idea And then if you give us whether or not she even says it's good or bad That wouldn't change what our commentary. Yeah, you're still making a lot of statements about And also you have made statements about like shallow and and then stuff like yeah, our main conversations are about how her Um requirements are gonna make her have false positives Because we can't we already agreed that fridging is a thing We just don't think that she's done a very good job of identifying it Like the especially like this this I say especially it's kind of been throughout But you know would it hit the same if it happened off-screen? It's like that's not a good way to test this Mm-hmm And if she has some redeeming point at the end that ties all this together Maybe she should have opened with that to sort of frame the whole argument And then it's like like here's what I think but now let me like here's some let me offer some counter points Yeah But we can either do this where we dive into each point individually and keep pausing it or we can watch the entire video in its duration without pausing and then forget all the fucking points that we're talked about And then the whole discussion is a mess. So like which one do you want, you know? Uh, and I was gonna say you know like that that stupid fellow I was just describing where you know, like she's like I love you husband and kid and that's all walks in it goes. I hate all of you And then blood splatters everywhere and she's like Like like just going on screaming and if they go Yeah, would that have hit the same if she was just in the supermarket and had a phone call saying Your kid and your your husband died by the way I'd be like, well, I guess I guess it hits harder when we when we see it. So But they're both terrible Because she's saying like would it hit the same? It's like probably not because seeing people die Like that usually hits a little harder than seeing their grave But it depends because oh and his mom like that one hits harder then Yeah, like some onscreen ones because we have the Establishing elements and all that backstory and stuff Oh, that's actually yeah, it's a great example. Someone mentioned to John Aaron in Game of Thrones He's technically speaking the death that starts the show. He's the king's hand and when he dies It means that Ned Stark would be next to become the king's hand and him becoming the king's hand Is something many factions do not want Um, right and we find out John Aaron was killed eventually The idea is John Aaron's death motivates a whole bunch of things to happen and it's like We never even really find out much about him in the show. I don't think we get a couple of lines from a couple people about his life But like it's that would qualify. I'm pretty sure it's fridging But like if someone said oh, so I shouldn't do it. I'd be like no no Like no, I don't I don't know why we're taking that away Character death constitutes fridging or not if it could happen in offscreen and have just as much impact on the story Especially if it does happen offscreen. It's probably fridging. It's only oh god. What useless information it's probably fridging like So might not be why would it potentially not be we need to now I guess Because if I said like if the character dies It might be fridging, you know, like so we need more than that. So how do I know? Yeah, how do I know if it is or not? Yeah, the impact is how it bums out the more important characters with no exploration of how it affects the character Actually being brutalized or killed. So we are saying Uncle Owen and I am blue are fridging. Yeah Okay All right. Um, I understand that they shouldn't have been fridged that that was bad that they were fridged Presumably or I I assume they I sit there. It's like so how do we how do we do the story of Luke? Initially rejects the cold or you know adventure and then there he is motivated to do it Like what would be the thing his home is the whole point is that there is yeah The whole idea is there is an oppressive empire that is you know killing people and hurting people How do you? Oh, no, it's oppressive stop it. Um, but like how What what do you what do your options become then to motivate him? In terms of like fighting against this particular empire that is evil and like kills people who get in their way Um, what what how do we propel him without hurting other people? Um, unless would the idea be hurt him Instead and then that motivates him, but then you could be like well wait So he only cares when it affects him personally Like him personally Well, I was gonna say you can easily make the thematic argument for them their deaths They're a microcosm of the the damage the empire is doing to the universe Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so in that sense, it's not fridging because they're representative of other people more. Um, I suppose Uh, they're not I don't think they're even mentioned by name ever after that scene I don't think so. No, so maybe The original film could be tweaked name afterward. Yeah. Yeah, because if you remember when when obi-wan dies luke is like pretty depressed in In the ship afterward and then of course that gets obi-wan has mentioned many times because it was so influential And it's just like, yeah, you know luke spent his whole life with our bro and Uncle Owen, so you think that maybe they should get some more lines at the same time I don't know that they qualify as being fridged. I don't know. I don't think so I don't know I'm not certain if she's saying if she's uh, saying that this scene from star wars is an off-screen death I wouldn't constitute this as an off-screen death because I mean, are we supposed to see like his parents flaming skulls? I don't know Holding on it gratuitously like I don't think we need just either Well, we don't need to see it. I would still consider it an off-screen death if you discovering corpse afterwards Yeah, it is it is an off-screen death. We see an on-screen corpse. What's being identified is We this was a time where we we don't need to see them get flamethrowered, right? Like with That would be like because she's almost saying yeah, we don't see it's off-screen. I'm like, yeah, it is off. Yeah I don't know if this should have been on screen The there is no way There's an argument to be made about what exactly is an off-screen death But I just I think there's a difference between this and say Luke just being told Yeah, so you mean seeing the body Versus being the dead They're seeing their their bodies. I don't know if he sees the bodies, but he knows they're dead. He does he does things right He says it's left of them. Yeah. Yeah, definitely a difference. It's more impactful to see the bodies Yeah, then then him being told on the fucking like a radio like are you your uncle or not a dead by the way Yeah, how'd they die? Oh They I they died in their sleep. It's really tragic. Um The empire did it Yeah, I'm part of it Can imagine Obi-Wan did it and he's like, oh my god, look what the empire did. Oh You have to come Holy Is how it bums out the more important characters with no exploration of how it affects the character actually being brutalized or killed Getting killed off-screen is such a dismissive. I don't you to a character. No, it isn't absolutely What you can't do it. What an incredibly stupid thing to say We just brought up the the Bly example It is so well handled that we never actually met her We just get Owens perspective of her and then we just know that she's not got long left The idea that she's like, well, that's a fuck you to that character. I'd be like, okay, you're insane How many stories have you fucking consumed to say that if ever a character dies off-screen? It's a fuck you to them Yeah, in some cases like this It's the opposite of a fuck you where you're kind of giving some dignity to the death by not like portraying it and all it's Or to it like I mean, it's just It's terrible death that they suffered you don't really I don't know if it was it'd be more effective to see that I just find this confusing because like guess what in your life There's probably gonna be people who die who you weren't there Yeah, like that. You know, Thanos snaps away half of the universe. That was a fuck you to half the universe What a did oh, what a what a dumb thing to say also Jojo Rabbit Yeah And that that is handled fucking perfectly. I wouldn't change a thing about that What a I just don't know what else to say other than what an incredibly stupid thing to say Yeah I wanted to see Darth Vader stuff his parents into that fridge into the fridge you go Someone said those weren't secondary characters. So it applies to no matter what character you are what we just said It doesn't matter if you're second real or not Yes, she just has an offscreen death is like fuck you so that was not a secondary character's death offscreen Like like imagine a character was like the main character for three movies in a series the fourth one They're in the first half and then they're like, you know, they fall ill or something and then there's this big victory Everyone's happy. He was really influential and then you just find out he passed away during it We didn't see it or something like the idea is like, well, that's a fuck you to them It's like, well, no, it could be poignant for many reasons. Yes Yeah, what if the point is that they died offscreen and like the character wasn't there Yeah, exactly or you're just living your life and you're really happy And then it's just like, oh, somebody, you know, just yeah, sorry. It was an accident something happened And then that's like the point So I said, yeah, Bambi's mom died offscreen. That's right. No country for me I'm not gonna say anything more specific than that. All right, because I haven't seen it The younglings got Some sometimes the appropriate thing is to let the audience fill in the gaps in their head Right where you show them one shot and another shot and it's like, okay I I can visualize what the death probably was. It's not good. I don't need to well There was an example in the show that you made kind of isn't there Of an offscreen death Which in a certain sense, I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. Well, you don't see it happen You hear it, but you don't see it. Oh, I see. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. I mean Because you didn't see it It's a bloody money shot Exactly. I would argue it makes me more powerful without. Yeah, exactly So what's it? Bambi's mom definitely ended up in a free Oh Nice I would say the the genre has something to say about whether or not you see those gory money shots You know, like if it's a grindhouse sort of movie Where like you want to see the guys some guys head explode Whatever, I mean, we just expect that in that genre Well, I mean we just watched squid game. I mean, there's countless examples of You know that happening. Oh, you're right headshots. Yeah And to clarify they've seen up to episode six or no spoiler in us, but yes With knowing what happens in episode six, I'm not going to say anything specific But anyone who does you know one of the very significant deaths is done while just showing a character's reaction not the actual event Yeah, in fact, we got a couple of those two of them at least. Yeah from memory Yeah Well, that was a fuck you to them. That was a fuck even though like Even though it was like the most important scene in the whole some people are saying though If you hear it, I don't think that would it still qualifies as It's off screen. It is it is off screen. Well, it is literally off screen I wonder if off screen refers to just uh, you have no context for any bit You're simply told by someone else that it happened and use a different definition Say something else to say off screen Yeah, no, I understand So a lot of people got fringed in titanic by that iceberg Dude imagine somebody when that happened jumped onto the iceberg to be like, this is probably safer, right? Like I'm I'm glad you brought up titanic because titanic has an example of like A very quick sub I can't remember his name is the uh You remember the part where like they've got the guns and they're trying to stop the poor people from getting onto the uh Yeah, the um onto the boat and then he accidentally shoots one of the guys who gets pushed and then he's just like Nope, sorry, and then shoots himself in the head and then that's it for him Like are you gonna say that that was like just uns like is there a problem with that the fact that it was so sudden Well, I mean this this is the problem is the if this video was meant to make something clear It's muddied it completely at this point Yeah, because now because somebody said that apparently my take is all deaths and books are off screen because books have pages so we're talking about Can I just say first of all great argument actually true nothing happens on a fucking book You cannot refute that I love the gotcha for freaking but like yeah books on on screens like what Yes, they are on screen. Well, I guess you could put a book on a screen You could put a book on a screen and then it becomes all right. That's right. That's uh, yeah That's right. Saxon the books in mist have screens. It's very true Sirus and akinar. That's right Um, so yeah, let's uh, well actually I'm gonna use the little real quick and top off my that might have been a joke I will say when somebody says apparently I don't think that I think that that means they're like, ha fucking idiot All right Use of boats use of boats. Yes Wait, what are you writing down? All right, so There you go. I feel this isn't even representative of what they said in chat I just think it's a really funny quote if it's bad for someone to die on screen that all books are bad because nothing It happens on screen Brilliant I like it. Oh wait, so so did I off screen soda on screen there you go That's right off screen And if and if the if the idea is like this is taking it too literally The problem is that I think that if we actually have the conversation about what it means to be on or off screen We're gonna start disagreeing and at that point I'm probably gonna be frustrated with you for saying that it was taking it too literally because we will Absolutely will The how far you can take this though because if I go you're gonna want to only kill people who are like Developed like undead to the audience. Okay, this one could be like when I mean yeah, but Like no, there's only like, okay, you're taking it way too far He's not saying every single character has to be fully developed and you're like, no, no I'm taking what he said literally if I said it's better to have a character who's developed Die than non-developed die. Okay. That's my advice It's just like that's kind of useless actually because it's just there's so many circumstances that this Just you shouldn't have said anything to begin with You probably shouldn't get upset if somebody says but what if and then it fucks with what you just said That means that there's probably something there that needs reconciling in terms of your position Sounds like at this point. These videos are just designed to make you go. That's kind of true Yeah Yeah, which you know, that's uh, and if that changes the way that you approach writing stories It's like uh-oh like you could be diving down some rabbit holes. You don't want to dive down Yeah, imagine that you want to you know Someone bursts in the room and wants to kill the main hero and shoots and you're like I can't have them hit the wife. I haven't given her enough development yet. You're like Yeah, that's yeah, totally What a penalty too I cannot kill this character until I give them all of this development. It's like fuck. I do not have enough time Yeah, I just could just be that's not what the story is fucking about this. This just seems to me There's such a weird restriction Remember, we're not a fan of restrictions. Here we have Yeah contrary to popular opinion. I know She's not saying that All right, well, you know what everything she says that we say that she says she didn't say We're just talking about a mystical other person with all these quotes. So don't worry about it No admission of tragedy the character becomes nothing more than a plot else's angst side character or not Nobody deserves that now the off-screen test isn't quite enough to say if a death is written or not See while fridging is intended solely to upset another character well-written character Wait, so are you saying this isn't fridging this one here castlevania? I don't know this one. I'm not familiar I haven't watched this in a while because I think it's But um, I'm pretty sure the idea is that Dracula meets this lady and then they get along really well and they're like Ah, she's like a witch or something and then they burn her and that is the whole like that kicks off the whole story The whole story is kicked off by he's really mad that they did this to her And then he just goes on a rage field revenge. It's like dude that like that that you say that's fridging Well, we'll see I guess But she's saying it's well written. It's like wait, so here's the thing about fridging then This follows the rules of anime where if it's if it's done in an anime, it's all right Also, what was this slide this test isn't perfect this relates to the whole off-screen on-screen thing So no, I guess the dead character is too dead to experience complex consequences. So the survivors are always focused on longer So yeah, that's not always true, but that is generally true, but how do you get around that? That's yeah when you're alive you are conscious and you can experience things Yeah, you can you make a bit more impact on your environment Oh, she's saying these these are examples of how her point has floored in it basically Oh, I would say that that one on the left is like pretty fundamental if you're dead You can't experience anything anymore. So of course you focus on the people who are still alive unless you're a forced ghost Unless you're a ghost. Yeah, unless you're a ghost Um And an on-screen death can be used to torment the main the more important character when is Still fridging if that's only framing I'm sorry while what word is that w h k and which is still which is still fridging. Oh, is it which? Oh, right? Okay. Yes Yeah, yeah Um an on-screen death can be used to torment the more important character Which is still fridging if That's it's only framing Okay, if that is it's only Um, okay. Yeah, I don't mean anything. Sure But like But what if I what if the is it is that meant to be like sephiroth or something there? He's got like long hair Right See while fridging is intended solely to upset another character well-written character deaths almost always upset the other characters too And since the character themselves is usually too dead to care most of the lingering well written character deaths Almost always upset everyone else too If you have a room full of blank characters and then I walk into it and shoot one of them in the head And then walk out that upsets all of them that upsets everybody Even if you don't know that person, you don't even know them. So they're not more written to you They're just a person who like again these yeah, that's what I was casually earlier. Yeah Casually said things. I'm just like but no though Yeah But do tell us how that we got that wrong and that wasn't what we said just Set the other characters too and since the character themselves is usually too dead to care Most of the lingering ramifications of their death only affect the other character character themselves. Sorry. Hold on themselves Yes, all right fine I always mix if it's just themselves if that's like the only option Self is usually too dead to care most of the lingering ramifications of the only affect the other characters Typically by upsetting them so the distinction between a fridging death and a non-fridging death isn't immediately obvious from justice So that is not fridging then you're saying that Castlevania is not fridging Yeah, but the fucking requirement because she said it's not immediately obvious It's like that is what I have learned very clearly the line between fridging and not fridging is fucking blurry Yeah, very blurry. Yes definition the key difference is a fridging usually makes the other character briefly and shallowly While a solid character that makes the other character that was briefly and shallow. Wait, what? Wait, so a good death mix. Okay. Okay. So I'm just gonna do a story where I have Hi wife, and then she gets shot in the face and we spend the next 10 minutes with him grieving And then the story goes on from there. That's not fridging anymore Right because we saw I thought the whole point of why fridging is bad is that there is no focus on the person The person who was actually suffered. I thought that was a problem, right? But now she said that well if they grieve about it like the other characters if they Mentally anguish over it then that's good. I thought the whole point was that that's that it does Um getting very lost and the other problem is like for how long must they grieve What is the adequate amount of time to grieve? Yeah, and I'm not trying to do this like appeal to the the blurry line Or I'm literally just like no way But if if they like have a scene where they acknowledge and deal with it and that's it Is that is that not enough because it sounds like that's not enough people are like that Some people are like that. That's this it's just complicated as hell. Like I don't know that we can just um Because it sounds like she would say something like you know, it needs to go forward at least into another act Maybe she's like What about like if if the whole thing is now i'm thinking about 24 like season 3 It's kind of different but like at the end of that season jack bow just starts crying for like a minute After having saved the day and it's like, okay, so imagine. I don't know. We have a story where like main character's wife dies Well, his wife does die now But yeah, like main character's wife dies and he goes on his adventure and then right at the end He just breaks down into tears. Yeah And then Thor would be wondering why the more mainstream example, right in infinity war He's like, oh, yeah, of course Paul's not giving off an emotional reaction to a lot of stuff in ways that we might expect But then once he once everything's calm, we have to wait and he's so low and he's thinking about it It's like there it is Yeah So it's complicated, man Yeah If rince's a fridging usually makes the other characters upset Shallowly while a solid character death makes the other characters grieve Frequently fridged characters are never spoken of again. I was like, I'm pretty sure luke grieved over his parents dying, but She she's rather than ever referenced again. I just don't know that is that because it's it's such a like Like typically the punisher references his wife again So does he not count as fridging anymore that he often references as well? I was going to say you could reverse engineer this and we just have it be that they never actually Grieve but they do mention them by name like they died and this made me upset Well, this reminds me of a scene in the league of extraordinary gentleman Where we learned that alan quarter mains son was killed His son was fridged and his he does he he he doesn't like to Like have it mentioned To him and it's a it's an Like is that like he's fridged there But the way that it's brought up and his grieving for his son Is very it happens in certain circumstances You know depending on how it is brought up Not even a situation Yeah, so in that situation Is alan's alan corner mains son was he fridged or not? Oh, I got so many examples of coming into my head now of things And there is one thing about them is because the grand theft auto trilogy is getting remastered So we got a few examples I want to go through So in grand theft auto 3 when Claude gets shot by catalina in the chest And then that's like the whole motivations. He wants to get revenge on her for shooting him Would that be preferable to fridging because it happened to him personally And we and despite the fact that he never seems to express any clear feelings on like You know whether or not he's pissed off about that except he's trying to get revenge Is that preferable or is that a whole different problem? Yeah, because by this logic, we could fridge somebody and have a great story. So Yes Now we can have a story where we don't fridge somebody our main character gets shot And then he goes on this revenge story and there isn't like much to him at all Um, and then we're gonna do another one Um in vice city Lance's brother gets killed in the opening and that's like a big point for lance specifically Um, he is not a character in that game at all So you could say that he got fridgeed for lance, but then retroactively he gets a game that is all about him Has he been unfriaged? Because he got a whole game where we get to learn about him and who he is Well, is that vice city stories? Yes, that's the one right. Is he unfriaged? Is it possible to unfringe somebody by giving them a prequel that tells us everything we need to know about them? Uh, and thereby retroactively make them non-fridge There's a thought Fridges can be opened and closed Well, do you remember um To to re-reference high top I'm pretty sure point in his video was the you can't have peter parka grieving the death of tony stark and trying to uh interact with mary mj As a form of trying to start a relationship you can't do that and his comment section he'll be in like i'm sorry like you can't Grieve at the same time as trying to form a new relationship with somebody Like what the hell? Yeah, the and you get into the whole like you I don't know how definitive you can be about grieving with a human being It is complicated. Everybody's different Yeah, especially if it's a shared grief. Oh, you knew my father as well at his funeral Oh, well, uh, yeah, I knew your father too and we've never met before he would you know I'm a son and oh, I was his friend from da da da da da And literally someone's death and a shared grieving over a person can literally create relationships Because they'll talk about what they both knew Exactly Look we're referencing All these references This is one of them This is one of them is what you find out all the shit that we've seen because we'll just reference all Yeah, I was thinking about the star wars example like Can we not assume that luke is grieving his parents by in his fighting of the empire Throughout the movie like we need to get like him crying in front of the bathroom mirror or something like we don't Really need that we can assume but yeah, he's sad and this is why he's fighting to clarify for you some I've seen some people say they're not his parents. They are his parents. Okay They're his parents just because they're not blood Even though they are blood technically because they're all cold. Yeah, so there is parents. They're not his mum and dad Well, even though you probably would have called them Okay, it's not important the point is that they raised him Um, so yeah true Action through or character through action You know, but I guess the big thing though would be um if we are gonna say that it's a problem that luke doesn't react The criticism would be more so that it is inconsistent with who he is that he wouldn't be upset that his parents died Not well, this is fridging like they didn't get enough time on screen They're just there to motivate him like the criticism would be more character centric than it would be um Some meta. Hey, this is a trope. Don't do it. You know Yeah, yeah Okay, I wouldn't sorry. I wouldn't watch star wars and think like oh, well, it's been a while since they mentioned his parents Maybe he just doesn't care anymore. Yeah, that would I think that's just the fighting the empire for the fuck of it Yeah, you would pack it into the general motivation. He has to get the empire out of here the pieces of shit Yeah Grieve frequently fridgeed characters are never spoken of again after the arc They died in his resolve or even before it's resolved try and convince me that luke skywalker was still bummed about a glow in an Outbrew 10 minutes later It would be it would be bizarre human behavior if he wasn't I think it's pretty clear that especially when you give people that's why one of the things you do when someone's grieving Give them things to do You know to keep their mind off of that grief a lot of the times if you're in a bar and someone's hassling you Maybe you have more pressing concerns or i'm gonna take my grief and i'm gonna channel that into fighting against the empire right Also, you can go You can take this too far as well. There there's a character. So guild wars 2 this story and characters are basically shit Uh, there there's a character whose mom dies And for like season after season after season this fucking asshole won't just shut up about it And he's just mopes around all the time forever and ever and ever and everyone fucking hates him for it So you can you could absolutely take this too far. This will be very very characters specific Mm-hmm. Um, I hate this next slide. I've just read it Oh Would it hit the same if it killed their favorite possession? Is it sadder more profound or more profoundly impactful than no my prized collection So the implication here being that the person couldn't have been that meaningful if their death is no more meaningful than them losing like You know a particular item of this but the problem with this is If I lost a ring that was passed down through my entire family versus, uh, bob my neighbor who i've met three times Like it's yeah, i'm probably gonna feel more for the ring or alternatively if your house gets burnt down and you didn't have home insurance It's like, you know, you know what like you might be sadder about that than that one guy you met that one time seven years ago There are stories about this. I can't believe it. I think this kind of counts But um in god of war The two main characters are put in serious danger for the sake of getting ashes to a particular place Like they will go through almost getting killed many times specifically because of something meaningful They want to do not they what i'm almost saying is they almost value that shit above all of those kinds of very earthly very realistic risks What about macguffins and stuff like or some sword that has a legacy or some crazy power You know something like that Yeah, like people possessions can be valued. Um, and they can be valued significantly in a narrative I once said that's what she's saying like yeah, but she's saying it like it's a bad thing Like that's a bad thing. Yeah, it's like to know you got fridgen is when they die and it's no more impactful than a possession And you're like well, but that can be meaningful. So what do you mean? What if what if the point of the story is that this guy is so obsessed with his Value valuables that characters die around him and that kind of motivates him But then when like I don't know someone breaks his playstation. It's like i'm gonna kill you Like you're gonna die. I can't get another one. The scalp is this too. They cost too much Yeah, the infinity war is like all about that is like the lives or the possessions more important Yeah, that's right vision the the stone versus his life. That's right Yeah, yeah Paging litmus test I'd like to propose a corollary of the iconic sexy lamp test Which explores if a story would meaningfully change if a character is replaced with a sexy lamp This is the property damage test if a dead character could be replaced by someone's prized pokemon card collection And their loss would have the same or more emotional impact on the plot What if the pokemon cards were collected by many people who eventually died of cancer and passed it down? Yeah, I was about to say like what if it was his dad? It was like a cherished elwin John wick the dog was given to him by his wife. That's what gave it me. It matters to him Yeah, and that's what got stolen from him. Oh, there's so many counter examples that just like break these rules Mm-hmm. Ah Do you remember a hateful eight when she spits on his letter from Lincoln? He just fucking punches it She flings out of the frame and then you have kit Russell just looking at her looking back at sam jackson's like What the fuck that he's pulled out too because of the chain. I love that bit. It's fucking great Yeah This reminds me one of my my classes in film school where they showed us like a shot of a coffee cup And the teacher was just like just a coffee cup, right? It doesn't mean anything or you can you in the context of a film you can make this coffee cup mean Mean anything you can charge it with a bunch of meaning your sentimentality With a bunch of scenes that preceded and then all of a sudden when you see that cup on the screen You're like, oh, I really care about that thing like it just depends how you Exactly Yeah, you can have an item that is incredibly important to the survival of characters that is Extremely like importance like we need this thing to get us to this to safety We need this thing to get us out of here And if a character destroys that the others might be like They could be enraged and kill them because of it Yeah, you have a lot of fun with it too. Like dude, where's my car or something like that? Yeah Dramatically it's it's explicit in infinity wall. He's like I will not hesitate to choose the stone over you and spider-man It's not even It's almost like oh wow, so their deaths mean less than a fucking item getting just like yes I don't know what else to say. It's like well, that's pretty. That's very addictive of fridging. I feel like oh no And so you should avoid it. You should not tell this story Yeah, yeah, you're missing out Yeah, I think when she thought of this she thought like mundane little items trinkets like my wallet or something Yeah Or a lamp or sexy lamp. What if we're telling a story? What about luxo junior and the story about him and a lamp? He's a lamp and he's a person You can make a lamp a person You can make a toaster a person you you can make anything You can make anything Toy story their possessions. They were the infinity lamps like suddenly Oh And if the ultimate point here is actually no a meaningless item It's like well, then the problem isn't the comparison with an item. Is it it's the meaningless relationship You don't need to bring in what if it means less than a meaningless item like Well, yeah A character was probably fridged now. This is kind of a joke, but fridging is a bad Oh, no, oh, no, sorry all those people in chat. Bye. Bye. Yep What happens when a character dies is like this Maybe she's saying what's here on the screen and text is not what I think Oh, yeah, she could still say that I doubt it's gonna happen, but So what happens when a character dies is mishandled drastically reducing its emotional impact on the audience. That's an interesting As a statement. Hmm. All right Because remember by definition she's decided that Owen's mother's death was mishandled Which good luck arguing that yeah by dramatically reducing its emotional impact on the audience Yeah, because if she was on this call right now and said yeah, but had we seen her with Owen It would have been more impactful. I'd be like you can't you can't be definitive about that. You just can't No It's not a frequently misused trope or a hard day. It's bad writing character It's bad writing. It's bad writing. That is an interesting statement. Oh, fuck me. Here we go. Bad writing. It's bad writing. Bad writing. And see this is a big problem because she's been so nebulous up to this point that Like we've we've given you guys so many examples of things that apparently are now bad under her definition Jeez do not take her writing advice. Fuck me. It's only not this video I'm gonna say the same. I said for high top. I'm fulfillment. Just one. I don't know. Just this is just the one video Maybe it's just the one. Yeah, maybe maybe this is their one shitty video Are not bad trope wise but fridging specifically in respect for the fridge character and their narrative potential fridging ways a character Doesn't necessarily that's the problem Who gets a fuck about narrative potential if the story's not about them Yeah, if you're like, wow, you could have told the story of that guy you're like I didn't tell that story. I chose to tell this story. Yeah, you could tell a story about any fucking character in the movie. Yep, exactly The story and concludes that all their future potential and growth and dynamics in the narrative are worth less than another character feeling Okay, you feeling kind of bad Wow, this is really bad faith right here. I was about to say like To clarify she's saying that whenever a character dies the writer has decided that their death means More than anything they would have done in life. And that's why I've chosen it Which is not how it works Yeah, this is insane. Well Ned Stark's death he could have as often I've talked about before because I really like the idea If he doesn't die there to see how everything plays out But his death is incredibly meaningful But his life would have been too the idea that the writer said no I'm doing it because it would be like more meaning comes out of him dying than living It's like that's not how stories work. No, this is this is the story that I have chosen to tell I could have told a different one, but I didn't because I wanted to tell this specific narrative Yeah, that's wrong. Just just straight up. It's not a zero. It's not a zero Something of this has more value than this. It's like they have a different value. They are different stories With different meaning. I don't know what can be a main character We need some secondary characters. We need supporting characters. Someone just said I doubt she would consider Ned Stark's death a bad one. It's like, I know that's the problem He counts But carry on. Sorry. A lot of a lot of stories are good Metal Wait, I was done. I was done. I was finished. Oh, sorry. I thought I cut you off. Um Yeah, just it this is frustrating because um, I know she wouldn't consider Ned Stark's death bad Nobody does it's fucking great. Um, the the unfortunate thing is that there's lots of boxes that one ticks Including but not limited to you can argue that there's more meaning in him living in that universe with the political's positions for everybody Tywin literally says You shouldn't shouldn't have been killed because he was a really good fucking hostage So we we you know, it would have been much better for us And and and then you always have the chance of his what I'm saying is his death Gives you story a his life gives you story b, but you can always go to story a at any point as well So technically speaking you can argue. Ah more meaning, but I'd be like, I don't know. I don't know. That's how we categorize fucking I don't know that's I don't think it's that simple. No In any change in what happens or who lives and dies that will just create a new story I don't have to tell any story Right. I have no obligation to tell a story where this character lives It's interesting because you know with us when someone's writing a story and they're like, all right My hero's in this room someone bursts in with a minigun and unloads into them And they're in like a steel corridor and they're really good at aiming. It is the stabiles. So we're like, oh, so they die And they're like, well, no, that wouldn't be meaningful. So they're gonna survive And you're like, well Okay, but you need to change it so that they're not in that scenario then because that scenario kills them Like you need to do something else Right. Yeah Um to the drawing board instead of simply being because to be fair advice like this I think leads to what we end up getting it's like Kind of black widow die When she jumps off the facility in the third act. So just give her a parachute. Oh, she lives. Yeah We'll spawn a parachute next to her. It's like you can't that's It's like, yeah, but it would have been less meaningful if she died. It's like which by the way That's not necessarily true. It's just been funny because remember Reality does not recognize the existence of tropes Doesn't give a fuck about tropes. Yeah, there is no protagonist. There are just things that happen Right Y'all are deliberately interpreting what she's saying like four-year-olds. Like may I literally said it She said it's bad writing like come on Come on Add for a little while. This is reflected both outside of the story since this character's killer Be it the character who kills them or the author who makes the call demonstrably couldn't give a About them in their own right instead choosing to focus on time. You can't say that. You can't. No, no, no You can't say that. This is who are trying to insert yourself into the mind of every story That's that is actually a pretty significant. Why would you say that they don't care that the writer doesn't care? They clearly don't care. It's like how the fuck could you know? You can't know that you can't possibly know that This is this is wrong. That's just a weird character judgment to make if you kill them. That means you didn't care for them It's like wrong Fucking wrong. This is wrong You know George Lucas didn't give a fuck about Vader. Did he Yeah If we're talking about characters who are fridged even then if she's saying if you if you basically Fridge a character by killing them like this And denying them life in this fictional world that you don't care about them like that's if It's it's fucking ridiculous Agreed like I When i'm writing stuff and i'm coming up with characters like I even if it's just a tiny one-off thing Where that character only appears in one episode for like one scene I care about that character And I think I think a lot about that character and like trying to realize it as like a real Person even if it's just that they're only there for like a little blip In terms of screen time relative to other characters. I do care about the characters I think a lot about them and but the story's not about them. It's about the other people Can you kill so? Yeah, I'm just I I guess it goes back to the whole if fridging is just bad writing You are gonna have to come up with some serious alternatives for motivating protagonists Or you're gonna have to completely restructure entire story so that we have these characters get all this depth and background and I I Yeah, that that ain't happening Maybe it's more accurate to say the story doesn't care about the character rather than the writer It's like but again Ned Stark He his death basically forms all of the events to come to say the story doesn't care about him at that point I'd be like, I mean I don't know about that. You don't borrow me his death Like when it's brought up in ministerious and everything. It's like, well the story doesn't care about him He's dead now. I was like no it does his death still Permiates through the characters fucking journeys like I don't know what else to say about that and the idea that tolki Didn't care about barbie because he killed him or something. Oh god. Okay No, Boromir is crucial because he represents what the ring can do to a bad or a good man Yeah, well, if we want to I I think she's referring to the characters who are fridged So I assume that's the problem. They wouldn't count people Well, remember she said whenever a writer chooses to kill someone that means that they believe their death means more has more meaning than their life So like already that's a problem. And that's like, I don't even know that's necessarily connected at all to fridging her overall thing The general story stuff you're saying the decision to have them die Will yield greater utility in the opinion of the writer than their life Um, and that it is like that that seems to be what the point is And that is an interesting statement. That's all like And Barney is death motivates the fuck out of Aragorn. So Yes, it does as well as uh Pippin And Frodo as well because all of a sudden he's acutely aware of like the burden he's carrying so fuck I better be careful. Otherwise, I might go down the same path. That was another thing She made it clear to say one character at one point here And I was just curious like if it motivates more than one is it not fridging Yeah, if it motivates two people Because she said about the castle venue when it motivated like everybody or something. It's like wait, but surely you could still go to fridging Well, let's stick with two. What if what if a kid uh, The death of a child and that the parents are the protagonists and the child has died offscreen or before the The story begins or at the beginning of a story the child dies and therefore that impacts the parents Because it's two people and assumedly the rest of the family, but primarily two people Is that not fridging? Right It's it's confusing again Since this character's killer be it the character who kills them or makes the call demonstrably couldn't give a shit about them in their own Right instead choosing the focus entirely on how ending this character's life will make another character upset for an arc or two Their own life and death isn't just an arc or two as if those are like dismissively a whole character Can you see this she's got like an image of oh they they maybe invent something They're doing something with powers. They're defending the innocent. They're getting an item. They're falling in love Apparently all of that is irrelevant compared to their death. Like that's what she's saying We have to have they have to have this we have to focus on them having the sadds and i'm like I I just I I would even say that generally them having the sadds is just the default of what you'd expect It's just amazing. We're gonna apply this to literally every character that's ever died Yeah The argument extends beyond fridging. Uh, oh, yeah Important or deserving of focus as hurting the hero by This successfully indicates that the killer is a terrible person But it also reflects a level of dismissiveness from the author a love interest slash beloved character can be killed or deeply Deeply hurt in a way that predominantly affects the plot by hurting another character without it feeling like fridging This is largely It doesn't feel like fridging here Useful real fucking useful execution pun intended if the death is unceremonious and quick and off screen That's a pretty bad sign since it doesn't really give the character their due It doesn't highlight the tragedy of their life Interesting she's using x-men origins when this was all this is what I was talking about before This is the villain wanted it to be this way. So you look at the events in isolation You're like see this fits fridging. It's like but what if in narrative The villain wants to kill this character to motivate the main character to do something This is exactly what I was talking about. Actually, I can't believe I didn't think about it The idea here is that if they kill the wife, they'll make wolverine angry enough that he will start trying to fight And you'll you'll opt into the adamantium program Uh, it turns out she's not dead by the way. She works with the villain So I don't know why you're using this this can't possibly be considered fridging Like she's in on the plan Right Maybe if it maybe counts as fridging if the protagonist believes the death is real That still counts. But so what I'm saying is defy the criteria that she said She's the character the person who dies quote unquote the wife They have a relationship and then she has to address this with him later that she faked her own death to make him do what he did Yeah, so how would that qualify if she is relevant later in the plot? Yeah Quite relevant her definition was specifically that they're not relevant anymore. Like that's it. I guess I'm Like this film is not good by the way, but And that's kind of the irony here, right? Because it's like bad writing fridging. It's like this film doesn't qualify yet. It's still bad so like It just focuses on why and how this will make the main character is the hero Screaming in the sky I skipped a bit for me. Sorry. I'm gonna roll it back. You did. Potential lost It just focuses on why and how this character Every character is the hero of their own story and if they died just to further someone else's story Feeling fridging feels bad because the dead character isn't being treated like a character. So their death impacts The death's impact is limited to the other better written characters feeling bad not the audience mourning So she's putting the cart before the horse a bit by saying that their death's impact is limited to other better written characters Um, so a lot of the times a protagonist will be better written because The story is about them. Therefore they will have more material. They'll be better written. They'll be expanded upon um But the idea that every Like every character is the hero of their own story. I was like so I find interesting she's using pat may doesn't care as an example because the problem wasn't at all that she Wasn't her own character. She had the fucking three movies of characterization. Like She's just not very well written In like she's not very well characterized in general the audience doesn't Like how much did people really care when pad may died? I remember I was just like there she goes She's dead. Yeah Okay, that happened and um now say liar and saying that like Her death is only going to be motivating Anakin or whatever I guess you because but there's a hell of a lot going on for Anakin and the prequels more so than just pad may's death um All the threat of her life, right? Because he does I don't think they do a very good job of this But he definitely believes in a lot of what the empire represents. He makes that clear in the second and third movie um But like the the motive Being like pad may was fridged. I'd be like, I don't know if she's gonna qualify this so many She's had she has so much fucking screen time and she impacts so much of the story Yeah, this is the thing I think it's a huge mistake for this video to say that pad may gets fridged because that disqualifies So many characters or at least it it well it it does it sorry It does the opposite of a spoke it it lumps in So many characters despite like if pad may gets three movies Of existing and being a part of the plot importantly so And she dies And that's fridging I just you I don't think you're not prepared to be consistent with this thing that you've established not at all You are just not you're not you're not going to if we press you on the amount of characters But this goes past fridging. This is just this video is just like characters dying Yeah, um, I would go as far as saying she's she's getting closer eventually to what we actually take issue with Which is just the pad may wasn't very well Characterized or endearing I guess and we would try and fix that by Giving him because like if you think about her in phantom menace She's like a young queen of naboo that's trying to Boster some peace while the trade federation attack her people There's something this some stuff that you can work with and then attack the clone. She's like a hands-on politician You know this again this stuff, but like I think the third one is kind of where she's like she's anakin's pregnant wife That's who she is almost This is open up a whole conversation about the fucking prequels, but like it's um I think you're missing the point by saying the problem with her is she got fridged I'd be like no it's much more about how she's written as a person and uh Because she has so much screen time and she's so important to the blood I don't know that she could ever qualify as being fridged. I don't think that's the problem I mean if she counts as being fridged Hey Is it just any woman who dies? Is that just what this is about? Some people in childhood say that it's like clearly at this point. It's just when women died It's like I mean I'm I wasn't ready to say that but with the Padme thing. I'm really starting to lean towards that All the examples tend to be women. I mean Padme is a very stride Does Arthur fridge himself in the Joker? Yes He does Denies that character the basic dignity of being their own persists is more than just a Padme was a person. She was yeah, she was queen of a planet. Fuck off Well, I would just go this is the thing I don't want to under undermine like because I do have loads of issues with the prequels But like there's a lot of she gets a lot of characterizations a lot of things she does a lot of things she believes in like I don't want to take that away from it. Um I was never particularly invested in it, but I mean you can definitely have references for her character Else's story it denies that character the basic dignity of being their own person who exists is more than just a prop in someone else's life It takes their death She does stuff in her own storyline doesn't have fucking nothing to do with Anakin necessarily like she makes her own decisions I'm very confused. I don't even know what to say Because of the implication is that everything she does everything she exists for is to relate to Anakin But it's just like I don't think Padme that doesn't count The loss of their entire future life and minimizes a short brief emotional impact on another character It's dismissed. I wouldn't call the impact of the death that had a kid brief This is kind of a I I just what what do these words mean to you when you say them, you know, I feel like we're speaking different languages How could that be if Padme's death? Has an influence that you don't feel is good enough Fuck me We're in trouble. Isn't it 19 you can't kill anybody It's like 19 years plus another is it nine for the span of the ot's just like that was a that was a while Darth Vader, you know, he's not getting over it, buddy Also, what if characters just don't get dignified ends like that's a Some kids just some some care. Oh Yep, yep So for reference For reference everybody there's two factoids. I want to tell you about one the person who sent me this video This was the reason two We've said many times on eFap one of the scenes that we actually think is pretty damn strong an end game was black widow's death Absolutely So it's the best it's the best part of the the story Everyone is like, oh no No It's on screen. I I know it's on screen. I've seen it with my eyes So I don't know what this is going to be about. Yeah, I'm sorry, but this is where we're going now Okay, well, maybe she's saying that this is a character death done right Even if it stands in opposition to all of her previous stuff Maybe maybe she's really inconsistent and she just thinks that this one is good, but the other one's definitely weren't ever Maybe that's what she says I was gonna say we could briefly review that scene and what what meanings though But I feel like we're gonna be prompted to so don't worry death and the loss of their entire future life and minimize Into a short brief emotional impact on another character. It's dismissive now We're about to enter the spicy take zone because you know the mcu is my old favorite punching bag But personally hey same for us Yeah, yeah This is how I felt about most of the major character Lady warren endgame, especially gamora and black widow. Loki and vision do die fairly quickly and unceremoniously Primarily to hurt the characters invested in them, but they're given narrative weight and some dignity. I mean, it's a huge payoff Pay off for Loki as a character over Ah Okay, I just find that interesting. They die for other people, but it's like hmm I give a narrative weight and meaning. You see what what does now? What does that mean? What does that mean? The reason I bring that up is that that means black widow and gamora's deaths do not have narrative weight Narrative weight and meaning despite the fact that they are Fucking significant like hugely significant deaths that have major repercussions Yeah, and in terms of like consequences on existence black widows is more consequential than loki To be fair. So is gamora's So is gamora's too. Yeah, they're both incredibly consequential Dude, gamora's death is the reason why Thanos wins because Black widow's death is the reason why the good guys win They win She's the reason why they won because she did it to to bring the family together That was her way of that was her and so that means we've nailed narrative weight now We just need to nail meaning and it's like not hard to talk about They had a that dude all of the original adventures are sitting there talking about how they have to make sure that they win for her They have to do it for her to make sure that it's So, yeah, we've barely begun and it feels as though she's drawn a line that's very I was gonna say arbitrary but in reality, it's just a very inaccurate line She separated loki and vision from gamora and black widow by saying one side has narrative weight and meaning while the other does not Which is just an interesting thing to say Yeah, doesn't red skull say on that cliff if you want the soul stone a woman must be fridged Oh, yeah, nothing Oh, shit. Yeah, I'll take it back Unfair and tragic in universe that they couldn't be sailing like bad writing But gamora, well, it's actually kind of fascinating in the two movies She'd been in her entire arc had centered on escaping thanos and his deeply fucked up abusive parenting situation Healing and growing as a person and learning to trust and even love her new friends Her dynamic with nebula was following that same track realizing they weren't enemies but victims of the same terrible situation Correct so far I'm worried though And the same manipulative tortuous narcissist Fanos is large over gamora's arc is the root cause of all the pain and suffering in her life And the thing that scares her most that she's constantly fighting to escape in infinity war Fanos is told by red skull that in order to get the soul stone He has to sacrifice something he loves so he kills gamora like permanently. She's dead. Now. That's bad enough It's worse that it's bad enough Why We've come across this argument before e-fap number three and we're gonna have to let her finish it because you guys are like it Like permanently. She's dead now. That's bad enough. It's worse that it works gamora believes that thanos is incapable of love And quite frankly by every indication. She is right He's a raging narcissist who can't see past his own chins And this should have been the test of character that screwed him over and also Meaning why why so so how dare this movie function The problem that you've encountered here is that it is not Thanos believes that he loves her. It's not even that he does He loves her. Yeah, he does There's no belief doesn't come into it. He love that's what love is. It's it's a similar to believe it is something That's happening regardless of your choice. He loves her. Yeah That's what I'm saying is from his perspective and that is how he gets this that it No, so What i'm addressing is what her point is she's saying the film much like movies with mickey did confirms Thanos loves her. It's not about whether or not he believes it. It is true that he loves her in the universe Yes, and that is the issue she takes. She's like you shouldn't be presenting. This is love Which is what movies with mickey said juvenile opinion. Yes 100 percent I hate to pull rick and morty, but even hitler love germany or something Evil people can legitimately love things. It's not like oh, you're a bad person Which means that you're just disqualified from being able to love stuff The history is full of horrific tyrants and dictators who loved their families or they loved their spouses or their You know, whatever To address this specific point in the film the film is acknowledging that like what thanos has is like wrong Toxic it's fucked up And conversely in endgame we see what it actually looks like what it should look like Which is that these people are trying to sacrifice themselves for some great parallel. Yeah It's a great parallel So like you cannot make the argument that in universe that like infinity were saying yeah that thanos man This is this is ideal relationship right here. Like that is not the point Well, yeah, like Look at the abusive dad who just fucking hits his kid every day If that kid is then hit by a bully at school while the dad is there You can fucking guarantee that dad is probably going to knock out the kid who did it Like that's my son. I love him and you're like you love him, but you hit him like It's it's amazing to me that you're so you love is that love is when you're really nice to people Simple as that just like love can never be An influence that leads you to do horrible things Passionate thing like it's so dumb that it's like Thanos didn't love Gamora. He was abusive. It's funny because if you watch him in the film This is probably the most healthy their relationship has been he basically just comments on how impressed he is with her And like yeah, thanos his idea of like raising a person is obviously fucking horrible He gives them body modifications if they fail battles But from his perspective, he's improving them Like it's you know, he loves them. He's he's perfecting them. He's training them He's just like the idea is like that's not love bro. You're like, all right Yeah Well, there's a devouring aspect to love. It's not positive in every regard. It can make you blind to atrocity You can love something too much This is literally we just talked about Padme. That's what that is Yeah, yeah, the whole idea is it or the shadows like all of these other um, you know Objectives she'll I will do all of these things because I love her to be fair. She also said he's narcissistic Right Do you think narcissistic people can't love other people like at all? Even like narcissistic traits You can love yourself and also love other things. Love isn't some zero some economy. Like I have to divvy up my love points Um What a just what a what a really just horrifically bad point. It's super juvenile. It is extremely Uh, I just I'm trying to think of the word it like two dimensional levels of analysis That these are very complex things Love is an extremely complex thing Yeah, I don't I just don't think being a narcissist makes it impossible for you to care about someone else It'll it'll lead to that Um, and I don't know that he's a strict narcissist because Thanos clearly cares about people beyond himself Mm-hmm. Um, it's what makes him much more interesting than a lot of Absolutely. He's still a bad person He thinks Thanos can't love What? Well, that would be a mistake, right? You gotta remember. Yeah, that's wrong. It's pov. It's what he it's it's his perspective Yeah, because if you remember the perspective This is what I think the film's point was because Gamora's like lol you can't win because you don't love anything And then Thanos is like tearing up Yeah, because he knows what he's gonna do. The logic of the soulstone is it's something that you value personally That you're that um that is being given up Um, so there is no like objective arbiter looming overhead like well No, you don't actually love her like that's this is not how it works And again when we just talk about the broader story it is a parallel because his version of love is absolutely twisted Whereas the version of love between uh, Nat and Clint It's like that's They're willing to sacrifice themselves for the other Let's see where she goes with this point. I just because i'm thinking about it more and more and i'm like Thanos is like characterized specifically as looking to save the world and you can be like Yeah, you can still be a narcissist if that's what you believe. It's like no, but I mean specifically He's almost he's willing to die to make sure that everyone else can now live Because i'm ignoring endgame for a second because he becomes a fucking crazy person in that film Um Infinity war he's talking about how like he's trying to save everybody and that he's motivated because he tried to do it Before he was prevented and everyone died Like the idea that he doesn't care about anyone else is like uh fucking I don't think so and even if you could apply that to particular interactions He has with people he still loves Gamora. I'm sorry. He does Remember like the test he ran to see if she would kill him Yeah, yeah, he did that because he doesn't give a shit about what she feels and what she would do Only himself come on Large over Gamora's arc is the root cause of all the pain and suffering in her life And the thing that scares her most that she's constantly fighting to escape in infinity war Thanos is told by red skull that in order to get the soul stone He has to sacrifice something he loves so he kills Gamora like permanently if she's dead now. That's bad enough It's worse that it works. Gamora believes that Thanos is incapable of love and quite frankly by every indication She's right. No. No, just that just seems so fucking immature to me. I'm sorry I just do not take fucking writing advice from this person. Don't fucking do it It will lead you nowhere good. Thanos is incapable of love. Why because he's mean Because he beats people up He's a raging narcissist. You can't see past his own chins and this Not true actually. It's literally like what a child thinks. Also. Yeah, but this is not true Like the idea that he has no he's characterized as big picture man Everyone else is not like in the film. That's the problem. Yeah That's what he keeps saying like, you know, if they didn't listen to me They said I was mad and then everything went wrong No, no, just uh, Tony at some point when they absolutely I'm starting to remember your name. I've almost completely flipped up my position over the past like half an hour I'm done. I'm starting was like, is he a narcissist at all? Like because No, I don't think he qualifies because it's not about him. No, I don't think so It's not really about well I mean remember his logic is that he is willing to basically destroy himself in order to achieve this goal Well, if it was all about him Then he just gather up a bunch of shit and just fuck off somewhere to take care of Why would his object? Yeah, why would his objective be about saving the universe even? Yeah, the universe and going to a little farm where he lives alone and nobody knows who he is and what he did Like exactly and he's like In the far he's like pretty much a piece that they're gonna fucking kill him because he's like my job's done And remember endgame that is does actually say like he's not upset when he sees that he's like my job was done Yeah, mm-hmm I don't think he qualifies and even if he did qualify that doesn't mean he's incapable of love Yeah, I don't think this person knows what narcissism is clearly not they're just or they're really bad at analyzing characters Something's up. They really don't like him. So because I find that not really narcissists can be thrown out But like anybody you think is a piece of shit basically I mean Tony is a narcissist, but he cares about people exactly clearly Clearly you can say the same for dr. Strange You could say the same for Loki. Yeah And I'm not talking about shitty Loki from the tv show like even before that He's one said he's less obsessed with saving the universe more obsessed with proving his plan was correct It's like I don't know that you can see that that's true Eva by the way Proving that your plan is correct is how you save the universe I was gonna say like how could we even how do you even determine this like he's got His goal is to do it. He's like no his goal is to prove his plan was correct I don't think we find him going around the universe saying see I was right when he does it We find him as Fringe just said on a farm making some food on his own. Yeah, yeah, there's no way We can't make that argument None of you know what narcissism is. Please stop talking. So here's a big fun fact rags me to clear earlier If you want to just add with the extra characters what we missed on your call bed, that would be great Yeah, if you if you if you're brilliant addition to this conversation is nuh, uh Maybe put a little bit more work into it You're wrong. I was I looked at the definition by the way like that was one of the things that I was doing You probably didn't hear it But I was looking up the definition to be sure I mean, I haven't clearly doesn't fucking know What narcissism is if you if she thinks that nano says a narcissist and she just doesn't know what it is Once again, she's using a word that she doesn't know the definition of there are several qualifications as far as I'm concerned Um in terms of definitively making it without looking at the definition I'm pretty sure like it involves just caring about yourself more than basically anybody and like a You result in basically not caring about what other people think and feel They don't that doesn't get taken into account into your actions. The thing is I think infinity will actually take steps to show that's not the case with anus He does a lot of things that are unnecessary to his goals that only tell him things about other people because he's interested Exactly. I want to see what this person's going to do I I want to be impressed by other people Yeah, will star lord kill gamora. I want to see if he does And then he says, uh, I like you I think before he leaves. It's like how how is that? I It just doesn't seem to be I'm more than happy to say you might have tendencies. I'd have to rewatch it but like She's saying it to the point where he doesn't love anything but himself or he's not even capable of love But at that point when I'm even talking about narcissism, isn't that just like psychopathy at that point? Is it sociopathic at that point or associate? I thought I I mix them up Yeah You guys words mean whatever you need them to mean at the time so you can win the art Oh, that's the definition of words It's just definition of words. It's just kind of funny that what she's essentially doing here is pointing out a plot hole It's like you're supposed to have to love the person but you did plot hole But it's really hard to prove this one Leaves the Thanos is incapable of love and quite frankly by every indication. She's right He's a raging narcissist who can't see past his own chins and this should have been the test of character that screwed him over And also like you must see three wrong things in a row She's almost suggested like see that would have been The way the story should have gone is that he realizes damn because I don't love anything I can't even get the stuff There's like isn't it more meaningful to be like this horrible monster that you've been trying to hate? He actually loves somebody And then the universe confirms it meaning like oh, fuck. How does that make you frame him as a person? He loves someone and you just gave them a and then of course he's like, what did you lose to do this? And he says everything he loved Gamora. I'm sorry. He really did Kill your loved ones to get this powerful MacGuffin and become strong is like baby's first Obvious secret test of moral character and it's frankly Yeah, you have no room to be saying baby's first anything you analyze media with the mind of a child That's all that I've been able to really soak up from this You're not capable of complex analysis of these things. I thought you said tropes were bad But now you're saying that what they probably should have done is the trope of the the the test where you do something evil It's actually a trick and by not doing the evil thing you become a hero You've just identified that as a common trope and now you're saying that that would have been a preferable alternative Well, if she did she did say that Gamora's death on its own is bad Yes, she did. She said that's bad enough Um, which means it's even worse than that Obvious secret test of moral character criminal that killing your loved ones was actually the only way to get the stone That's just lazy writing How is that lazy writing? Why why why? You had the grimdark option and you had the actually option and you picked grimdark because you thought grimdark was automatically more interesting That's just disappointed. Oh, hey, look. I thought you said that the alternative was baby's first And she said hey look marvel used killing is bad as a secret test of character all the way back in the first avenger And cap passed because he's a good person. He says he'll kill You just said he doesn't want to but he will And he does cap kills a lot of people a lot of people like in the tri skill in and all those people who are on this side Yeah, you can't yeah We try to avoid that You had the grimdark option and you had the actually interest you picked grimdark because you thought grimdark was Oh, so we've identified now one is grimdark. One is interesting Yeah, as if grimdark is inherently uninteresting I you can call warhammer a lot of things but an interesting is not one of them Just it's the amount of stuff that gets said without being explicit by her Automatically more interesting. That's just disappointing Bad enough if they just undercut gamora's whole personal arc by saying that the irredeemably evil overarching Is this not tragic as fuck that gamora spends her whole life trying to Like mend wounds from the the abuse she's faced from thanas convincing herself every day that he was just this horrible monster never loved her And she's trying to make it all better Then she finds out that not only is she gonna die here But that she was the only person in the universe that would allow him to get that stone Because he loved her like how is that not incredibly meaningful? Gamora is a great character This was a harsh ending to her story that I don't think Undercuts like what the potential other stories you can tell I think this is a great ending and we're gonna have to see what they do It's a great ending for her and it's also a really good piece of development for thanos in this film I'm starting to think the issue really is we can't give these bad tragic endings to female characters They just they're you you get to the point This has no weight though like she said that the other two had weight thereby implying this one doesn't this one has weight This one has huge amounts of weight She's decided that it's almost contradictory like oh you spend your whole life being like oh he is abusive But he loves you okay like Why have you it that way For villain who slaughtered her people and tortured her in nebula for decades. We loved her all along Yes, yeah, yes Truly i'm a tragic hero Okay, see this is no he okay This feels uh, this feels bad He's the villain you're bad at your job. He is he is the villain And he's got look what you made me do It's it's it's it's bad. It's bad and the story recognizes that it's bad Yeah, and and they're so complicated too because that is a sitting here like the fuck like I had to kill Because he was gonna keep her alive through everything seemingly now. It's his plan He's just gonna he was gonna protect it because he fucking loves her by the way. That's why He's trying to appeal to her the scene where he offers her food remember. She's like fuck off. He's like Like yeah, I know you don't like me Um Okay, whatever. He's just the hero. What the Well, he believes He believes that But the story doesn't That's Okay villain who slaughtered her people and tortured her in nebula for decades Truly loved her all along it crosses the line twice by having him prove that he loved her by murdering her Gamora's entire arc and place Is that a cross line? Why is that a cross line? Crossing the line to confirm it Why is that crossing the line? I don't get it. I don't know. I have no clue It's hard to follow because she's I she's saying all of this is though We've already agreed with it But I'm still like I need bonus information because I'm just so far away from agreeing with her Twice by having him prove that he loved her by murdering her Gamora's entire arc and place in the narrative is undercut and sacrificed to give them No, that's so it's a little bit of a bit of a he didn't he didn't the proof that he He I'm trying to think of how to phrase this. That's the thing. Um It didn't he loved her Despite killing her that's the thing Well, if he happened to have killed her here, he would still have loved her Right. It wasn't he he didn't love her because he killed her. Oh, I see what you're saying The logic was well because his logic was uh, this is more important though Well, yeah, that's the thing. I love her I would imagine I have to kill her his priorities are probably his life Then the plan and then her because obviously he can't do the plan if he dies But if the plan cost his life, I believe he would do it. I believe he would have done it. Yeah Yeah, cuz I mean using that. I mean remember he used the stones that hurt him enough And then when he destroyed them it almost killed him. Yep And I do that he's doing that because he values himself over everything else. Like I don't believe you Um, and yeah, I think he valued her like as number three like everything else came below her and then the plan and then him Just to make sure that he could do the plan. Well, yeah, because I don't mean to miss it Explain that the plan is first But not if like his life is what makes the plan happen. So he needs to be alive. So of course he values being alive Yeah, but like I said, if his death made the plan happen, he would have done it If red skull had said like you got to toss yourself off this cliff and everything you want to happen will happen And he knew that to be true. I could see him doing it. Yeah. Yeah, I could see him doing that So I said I'm coining the character term ragging kruger effect It's when rags google something for 12 seconds and thinks he knows what he's talking about Well, again, feel free to display that. I don't know what I'm talking about And we gave many many examples of how he is not a no early rags does this So I was about to say all four of us have not disagreed with rags take all five of us know what narcissism is Like and to be fair, I'd be like she probably does too I just don't know that she's thought whether or not clearly that Thanos actually qualifies Because as you can see she's very much she hates him as a character to the point where it's muddied her ability to judge him in terms of his characteristics I think that person might be underestimating the value of looking up the definition of something Or you look up the definition of a word and all of a sudden, you know what it means, do you? It's like, yeah I did it That's pretty much why I did it. Yeah Yes, it's just you get the broad understanding of the word. It's gonna be fucking useful It's it's a meme but seriously if you just like look at wikipedia articles You'll end up being more informed on a lot of things like on a lot of topics that you talk about That a lot of people a lot of people don't even look up things on wikipedia So doctor if you'd like to explain to us what narcissism is Feel fucking free otherwise shut the fuck up Yeah, the more his entire arc and place in the narrative is under his to give Thanos a character trait that makes no sense for him And to make star lord sad, so he makes no sense to him So So he just said make star lord act dumb for the finale, but that is a huge consequence. It means that he wins It's a massive consequence. I I don't like her depth contributes to the Destruction of half the universe's lies. You can't have it both ways. I'm sorry. You can't and I'm also excited. It's dumb though I find it really frustrating as well that it's like I'm pretty sure that of all of the characters in the film Gamora has some of the most As some of the most screen time in the whole film I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that she might be like second or third in terms of total amount of screen time I just don't like the idea that's like, oh we're tossing Gamora to the side like her stuff doesn't matter She's got her stuff going on with peter that's all that's all happening for her That's a story that's happening with her hold on infinity war screen time for characters I need to know I need to know because You can't be calling it fridging if she ended up. Yeah, she has the She has the second most screen time. Who's first jeez behind Thanos Then then Gamora then iron man and then Thor then dr. Strange and star lord at 10 Yeah, I yeah, so she has the second most screen time. That is it I thought the whole idea with fridging is that you just like toss them to the side and they got nothing Yeah, we really deviated. I feel a whole bunch from the original concept where she's really broadened fridging out She is cramming this square peg into a circle hole. She's just like grip. Yeah Fuck in there Well, if Padme as a if Padme was the that was the setup right for oh Fridging to you just means some batshit insane thing. Now we're going to Gamora And I'm like you we're we're just in crazy land now You should you are not the kind of person who needs to be making a video on the subject of fridging You're a terrible at it Well, we we push back on a lot of her rulings and then we push back on the examples And then when we got to Padme just complete disagreement and now we're in Actually dangerous territory of like so this is actually really good. You don't you have no idea why? Yeah, again, do not take this person's writing advice Don't fucking do it. I'll say don't take this video I don't know Just I don't know why I haven't seen her on the stop. Oh, yeah, maybe your other videos aren't shit. It's very true Probably not. Yeah, because she she she said that it cuts off Gamora's story What I think it gives it a very tragic ending considering how the perception that Gamora has had her whole life She doesn't even want to believe that Thanos loved it because of what he did to her It poisons your perception of how awesome love is Like yeah, love's complicated Makes you wonder when it's was like it makes you wonder when you have permission to kill a character at that point That's like a character just ends their story. Like are you ever allowed to kill a character? Like when is it acceptable? Yeah, that's an example of how it's done. Well, yeah examples. Yeah I need I need a dichotomy here. That's what would be very useful Loved her by murdering her Gamora is in mark and placing the narrative is undercut and sacrificed to give Thanos a character trait That makes no sense for him and to make star lord sad I love that she said a person has a character trait of can love which makes no It's like I don't even know that I can say that there is no character that can't have that trait It's like you'd have to be literally a Associate path or a psychopath. I also get them confused. Yeah, maybe I could do it for 12 seconds and I'll know the answer Like like Michael Myers type where they're just like they're just They are singular in their goal of just they like to tear people to shreds or something It's like can this person love is like seemingly not seemingly not Terminator, I don't know that. Yeah, I mean obviously You know, I mean like we have to go to some extremes to be able to get to those Like Thanos is a fully on he's like a person He's got all the the person stuff going on for him the idea that you've just been like he can't love It's like oh man, okay Dumb in the finale. Oh and to make Thanos sad, which is given more focus and weight than oh, yeah Look at the hood death. It makes a bunch of it makes nebula sad Thanos sad starlo sad and it fucks up an entire plot line and it allows him to get that stone see fridging It's like, I don't know these It seems like a lot of consequences. I don't know Yeah, it's like I thought if a lot of people were Motivated or yeah, I thought that was good Are we also because we've already had contradictions. Shall we shall we add this to the pile? It's certainly affecting more than one person And it affects the world This needed this needed a lot of redrafts this video script needed a lot of redrafts This is something that bugs me with a bunch of youtubers where like they They're it's not Like them me disagreeing with them isn't the problem. It's like when they're so certain about their position And then on top of that it's like they're sitting on their fucking armchair Which is ironically a trope In front of the fireplace And it's like what why am I listening to you? Like have you written anything? Do you did you study? What it is you're talking about like not necessarily that you you have to have like do you know what the words mean that you're using? Right. Yeah basic stuff Like if she had framed this whole argument at the beginning with just like well I'm experimenting and writing and I'm you know, I watch a lot of movies and here's what I think I've noticed some patterns. Yeah Yeah, yeah, and just like even if she's wrong it wouldn't be such a big deal But like she's just so certain to be like this is how it is you guys, okay? Yeah, well, maybe this isn't how it is. Maybe you're just a little too certain of yourself that bugs me Maybe love is a little bit more complex Yeah, good people do it all you All you need is a fucking webcam and all of a sudden you're an authority on on something I gotta tell the world Yeah I have a webcam. I'm authority of something then, right? Make star lord sad so he acts dumb in the finale Oh and to make thanos sad which is given more focus and weight than star lord being sad because obviously Making the pure evil villain kind of bummed out was where he's not pure evil. You've just called him pure evil I don't even think it's possible to be pure evil That's like one of those lovecraftian things where I'm just like you just you just it's one of those made up things Like no one's pure evil I don't think it's possible unless they've got some kind of weird specific definition like they're a person who mainly does horrible things Yeah, that's just being mostly evil. Yeah, um She's like it was given more weight to thanos than it was to the guy who's dating her and I'm just like I don't know the story is very much about thanos We it's the star lord is still Starlers given a moment here that like changes everything As a result of gamora's death like it's not exactly insignificant Remember Yeah, I guess we can continue worth the cost of one of marvel's most interesting heroines like We're going for so she's pissed that gamora died heroin is what yeah Yeah, I it adds. I think it is the fact. She's a woman. I'm just fucking convinced of it She's annoyed because she liked gamora a lot and gamora was killed. That's that's it Yeah, I liked her a lot too. Like this used to happen all the time When I was in my single digits and double digits Basically zero to 20. Yeah, I used to get angry when characters. I like died. I yeah It sometimes we grew up. Yeah, you you have to sort of look at the story a bit more It sucks, you know, you know when antony hoffing died in mascazaro. I remember being really fucking upset I was like, no, yeah, I liked him a lot But the fact is like you can't it's a very meaningful death story. Like, uh, whatever I tell someone you really care about dies fucking hell. I'm just but like The cope, you know, make a whole video about how this is a trope in storytelling. I have to stop is like All right, calm down What's the date on this video? This might be a video made of copium I'm not sure if this is if this is right after Like in-game or something. No, this is relatively near actually. Yeah, but she's clearly It's clearly a position. She's upset with But it it didn't work well It was a bad idea and it completely undercut everything gamora had had in the previous movies So not only was it a good idea it really brings into focus exactly what gamora's story was It was a person who was convinced That the Thanos this creature is everything that's bad about her life was him And he was a monster and he ruined everything and as much as she did absolutely find love with all of these new people She comes back to Thanos to be able to address him personally Just this horrific realization That he did actually love her and that that was the nature of their relationship That's just I don't know why she can't find any meaning in that. I find that quite like it's just classic tragedy right there And it just recontextualized everything she knew Um Which is very disappointing. Meanwhile black widow's death similar to gamora's but is bad for different reasons Everybody strap it While the woman dies, um, I'm think what else could it be What the same argument be made here if it was hawkeye that died No, this is clearly a female-centric thing It was it was so so at first but now i'm thoroughly convinced but seriously they'll put your helmets on and stuff okay She's gonna say something in here And if you've been watching all of our coverage of black widow related stuff, especially the video I made a black widow. She's gonna say somebody that's gonna trigger the hell out of us Oh I'm holding on to my controller. Oh god Because unlike gamora who had too much character weight and potential to warrant her on ceremony's death black widow was She had too much They worked too hard on her to kill her. I feel like no, no, no He just said she just said she had too much character. So I think it's clear what she's about to just oppose Right what she's saying is that gamora was killed when she had so much potential, right? I get it now. I think I see what the setup. Where are we? Where are we going? Meanwhile, black widow's death is similar to bad for different reasons because unlike gamora who had too much character weight And potential to warrant her on ceremony's death black widow was completely underutilized by every other movie She's been in with the arguable exception of winter soldier. We had this franchise for Right then wrong So a lot of the people that we cover right You do wonder Why have you decided this is your vocation? What are you doing? Why do you why do you maybe the problem? Is that you feel like you're qualified to talk about these things when you have No clue. She's sitting in an armchair in front of a fireplace You must have this person has no fucking clue I don't I don't know how you get to this point because if you watch the mcu, right? She does start out pretty thin. She is Defected person who is agent who works for fury and is good at fighting like okay fine Then avengers basically drops an anvil on her character's development. There's so much It's this huge bulk of like okay. She's a full-on person now um Age of ultron does the same thing Tries to add to what we already knew while pushing it forward and winter soldier That's like my favorite part of winter soldier at this point is all the stuff to do a black widow Civil war is incredibly important for black widow Oh, you know And then absolutely all of these films through line Is that she's desperately trying to create that family that she wants To to be able to trust people again because she's just learned her whole life not to And to save the world which is going to undo all the damage. She's done in her past lives That is black widow in the mcu. She's very well characterized. She's very well fleshed out And i'm very tired of people saying she's not Um just pay attention to her scenes. It's all there and so making her last scene She kills herself so that hawkeye doesn't have to so that the avengers can save the world and so that the family can remain intact Is incredibly meaningful. It tops off all of the payoffs of what she's been running through in this whole storyline Full circle is what that's called Great death. You don't need any more black widow after that. You've completed the story Ignore her fucking solo movie We have let's say we have Someone's saying rags the qualified. Yes. I am far more qualified to discuss this than she is. I think that should be pretty obvious Um, I don't care what qualified like if what are we talking about like whether or not you've read to books or trained or whatever Basic level understanding of the material i'm talking about If that's the qualification you're low Yeah, we'll start so it's at the bar low Because generally that's kind of all we really ask for an efap is this are you just have do you just have a Decent understanding of what you're talking about because a lot of the times just be pretty You don't have to be like super familiar But they'll decently familiar and then the rest is sort of you and how your thoughts put that all together Um, we have this is an interesting one fringy since you're our moral compass. You'll like this one Yeah, all right. This guy said is I said rags is wrong If someone can't be pure evil Then can someone be pure good? It's pretty doubtful I don't think so. I do not think that a human being in their current state has the capacity to be pure good With the idea that purity is 100 without blemish flawless. Um, you know, I guess all right Wouldn't you just just put them in a difficult situation where they have a choice that's very morally ambiguous and see what they do I just don't I just don't get to the point. We can't even achieve it necessarily because Perfectly good. None of us all agree on what perfect goodness exactly. Yeah, what if what is good? That's complicated But then there's also the fact that you know how when we're referring to like perfect evil or pure evil We were going to robots and psychopaths that only stab Meaning like like meanwhile pure good. We're looking at essentially the same the other direction It's going to be like a robot that only does perfectly good things all the time You know what I mean? It's like they almost don't have a character. What does it mean? What does it mean if you're a robot? You don't have any free wills potentially right So the fact that you do good things as a part of a pre-programmed script mean anything. Yeah. What does that mean? I mean something to the person who made you, you know Well, are you even can you even commit acts that have a moral component? Yeah, that's kind of the point I'm getting. Yeah, like my toaster doesn't do something moral when it pops the toast out You know, it's not like I can send that morally right things very toast toaster didn't burn your house down See to the moral good Uh, yeah, so let me see Decade and we never got an arc for widow that was deeper than she's hot or she's boning the hulk That's a problem, I think like I don't see how you There's a whole What was when we rewatched age of ultron and you just like even in that Movie, you're like, hey, there's like there is something going on here a lot of black. So she's she's talked about that stuff So I think it's just easy to acknowledge Just you do realize that there was an arc going on for a civil war that has nothing to with like romantic relationships Or what she looks like right? There was a whole arc there about trying to maintain this family And they're basically that she's going to try and take the most pragmatic approach possible In terms of what's happening externally in terms of this conflict to try and keep the group together That is her art that has nothing to do with her being attractive or her liking hulk Hulk is not even in that story or do you think that she had nothing happening in that film at all? I don't know how you could possibly come away with that interpretation, but It's just so hideously bad faith because like how the hell did you watch all the scenes with her get it? You remember when it's very bad when endgame starts up and you have her basically Organizing the whole discussion between all these different characters across the world They all go and then she starts tearing up. I was like man, this is awesome that we're giving her so much focus She's playing the scene the scene where that happens and where she talks about her values and what she's lost All of it though is informed by the prior films Yes, it is. It doesn't come out of nowhere. All the work they put into her. Yeah. Yeah Decade and we never got an arc for widow that was deeper than she's hot or she's boning the hulk This made her narratively disposable, but you can tell no no She's not disposable She's not narratively disposable. She's one of the main characters Well, we'll think about what she's been saying before this In terms of characters who are at first fridgeed, but now it just seems to be female characters who are killed period If you kill a character as she said then I then the author thinks that character is disposable that their story is not worthy of continuation This as wrong as it is This is it slots right into the other stuff. She's been saying Right There's an irony there though that if disposable means like Disposed of once They've completed their use is like well technically that should be the case for everything actually What's just gonna say that should probably be the case you should probably stop showing and doing things that aren't relevant to anything If you're done. Yeah But uh, no disposable I think kind of means that they can be discarded at any time. Yeah, that's what I think That's what it makes me think of and it's just like she isn't that she's not that at all. No, absolutely not Absolutely not maybe an Iron Man 2 maybe But not by this stage no The writers realized she was too disposable for it to be because for the first half of endgame They speed run the whole characterization process by suddenly giving her some character focus No, no It's almost a payoff rather than a setup at the beginning of endgame This is a payoff because all the family has been torn to shreds. Half of them are dead How's the speed running She's arguing that she didn't have character to the point where they had to just show a bunch of character in order to kill her Right, which is something that um It does tend to happen in in a lot of like Classically bad movies what I mean by that is like we have a new kind of bad these days that we deal with but Older bad ones would be like character We've never met before is suddenly getting loads of focus at a scene. You're like wait, what are you gonna die? You're gonna die. Yeah And she's arguing that that's that that's the case of black widow So she's getting loads of focus right now in endgame because they're gonna kill her because they realize She didn't have any meaning before that. It's like you weren't watching the movies apparently I don't want to tell you Yeah Dynamic with the other heroes and an alleged personal arc about chris is a found family She literally says in civil war staying together is more important than how we stay together like I don't know what more Alleged it's hilarious. Alleged. Yeah, it's not really No, it's not really It's wild you or that you just need I think maybe it's just purely operating from memory Like these movies are years these movies could be years old at this point Then we watch them for the video if you're gonna make you should yeah, um or or get or I don't know like you have the footage of the scenes and they're and they're always in different aspect ratios But you have the footage of these scenes You should watch them and you should listen with your ear holes Hmm Not a bad idea Allegedly it's amazing all the all the scenes they put in and it's just like yeah whatever It was an attempt to make up for lost time So we'd be sold on her heroics, but it was clearly token the fact that the movie completely stopped acknowledging her death five minutes After they got back is what that's not What I mean? I wanted more acknowledgement, but it is acknowledged in the funeral and is acknowledged. Yeah And I mean, I don't know if five minutes after so they have the scene where they The hulkers the bench and talk about yeah, but like to be perfectly honest with you Isn't it soon after that we end up with the we're actually doing the plan and then the war happens Yeah, and what how are you going to be able to acknowledge her during the middle of a giant battle? I mean like this movie is really stupid by the way like there's a lot of problems with all that But like oh my oh I can't deal with this This is sad. It's frustrating. Really just kind of indicative of how little she actually met Sacrificed every hero with the mcu paying their respects a protracted funeral scene and an entire movie about how hard I meant is the main like he is the protagonist of the series Um, I think I uh, I don't agree with the because of the it's weird that she's bringing up far from home It's like yeah, it's fucking spider-man surrogate dad. Of course. He has he's relevant to spider-man solo film Blackwood I got her own fucking movie as well But um the important part of a little dinky grave for some reason Well, I was gonna say the important part of the point that I actually Think is true to a degree is that uh, she made essentially the same sacrifice tony did But didn't get as much. No, and I do think that's a mistake Um, because of course, I would agree but the funeral scene for tony is is not just in will It's also meta. It's like if you remember the feeling of endgame. It's like we started with iron man and here we are Yeah, definitely like he he gave the shot for everyone else in the mcu. That's what that funeral represents beyond the narrative stuff Um, so I can agree with her to a degree to a degree, but I don't like this whole argument The mcu to move on without him. Tasha got a bench in a lake and a solo movie a year and a half after Just a bench in a lake that's it. Why is she why is she saying it's a year and a half after as if the amount of time It took to release means it's less meaningful It's a really weird way to look at storytelling I don't know a year and a half. Also. I mean flawed point is Yeah, that's not that long. Well, actually, yeah, you're right And but what if I said like, oh, yeah, you know the the effects and ultimate things of uh, I don't know Empire it's like three years. We had to wait till we see that. I was just about to be starwars as an example That's really that's a really odd thing to say three years Hard it is for the mcu to move on without him Tasha got a bench in a lake and a solo movie a year and a half after she died So, yeah, she no offense to black widow. Iron man was more important to that will than she was Yeah, the guy revolutionized technology. He's I He organized the avengers I don't know why he's just saying this like she should have had the same impact as a loss of the world that he should have It's like, well, no, that would be uh bad writing An entire movie about how hard it is for the mcu to move on Got a bench in a lake and a solo movie a year and a half after she died If we were supposed to believe she really mattered the story should have acted like it Well, you mean like because her death saved the fucking universe like that kind of means that she mattered I guess if you look at it beyond whether or not someone was crying an hour later Jesus If we're supposed to believe she matters then she should be brought up in far from home like Which by the way, she was in the opening, right? She was yeah, like like visions. This is unbelievable like she didn't really matter. Did she it's only the soul stone What do you should have acted like it for longer than just like the hour-long dying to advance the plot for stupid contrived So do you want character development or don't you I need you to make up your mind I So she's calling the acquisition of this whole stone stupid and contrived by the way Just the aspect of you have to sacrifice something Sure, but I mean the whole time heist was stupid and contrived. Well, but you're not talking about the whole time heist Are you I don't know that I I hate the whole like vormir is this Thing that was presumably created in the universe that if you want to collect these stones if you want to get this one We can put like a curse on it You know mystically that you have to give up something you love in order to get it Which is going to be hard if someone to do typically like yeah, I don't I don't hate that The the time travel bullshit is way stupider than that Absolutely it is To hurt dying to advance the plot for stupid contrived reasons Was she just getting too expensive? Is that what the problem was? No, it matches her story lines perfectly Yeah, this will the explanation for this Involves you being familiar with the character, which you clearly are not. Yeah, so Well, of course, it doesn't mean anything to you because you didn't watch any of the black widow scenes Like we don't care. Yeah, I'm back. What did I miss everything and nothing Perfect I mean come on guys and it's kind of telling that the mcu or undercut all four of those deaths in one way or another Loki and gamora have time-displaced versions with zero character development running around to replace their more interesting dead versions Vision got an actual. Yep. No, okay. So yeah, it's yeah, but they're new characters. Yeah, so Um I was gonna say this is opening a huge kind of whims I don't even want to get into she's like talking about how these deaths are kind of undercut by the fact that people are Returning like that was actually an issue that we had But loki isn't loki. So no loki's just a just a completely new part Yeah, whereas gamora literally is a new person. Yeah, and then you have Just a weird pseudo same person and then first he's changed inexplicably We don't know what they're doing with vision yet. We'll see Because he's come robot right now It's and then yeah, and then we've got black widow got her own movie, but I'm guessing that's Let's see what she says vision and want to got to actually grieve plus he's got his own Not quite happy running around now for future appearances. And of course black widow is finally getting that So they're the thing where all the clip all of the clips are Especially on the white board. They're all different Sizes and ratio, you know aspect ratio some have black bars on the top and bottom some don't and it's all in front of a white background Like uh, to be fair, some masking some of these movies are in different aspect ratios And that's just at that point. That's a matter of I don't I don't like it myself. I like to force aspect ratio But if some people are like no, I want to use the original aspect ratio for all clips in their native, you know things like yeah Okay, yeah, it's all just Solo movie we will proper send off in Wanda vision and Wanda got to actually grieve Plus he's got his own not quite the same copy running around now for future appearances And of course black widow is finally getting that solo movie We were promised which is a damn hard sell at this point now that she's already it wouldn't have been if it was good Right I mean, isn't metalgear soloed five like the best selling game in the series and the main character of that Well, nobody wanted to see the prequel. I can be one better. I god damn it moller Nobody wanted to see how anything got to the way that it was I think I used to be like, oh, that's that's kind of a point there now. I'm like, nah There's no point really at all like it doesn't I mean, I think part of it Part of it might be what that ending is if the character is just like had a ruinous terrible Like ending and everything it's almost it's it's kind of like Like game of thrones in a in a way where if you saw the final season first It'd be like, do you want to see how it all got here? I would be Someone would be like Red Dead Ramshin too most of the characters that you focus on are dead and you know it All right, most of them are dead Like Dutch is dead Arthur. It's pretty safe When you're playing it to assume that he's gonna die Bill is dead Javier is dead. It's like lots of them are dead But like you're still interested in the story because you want to see how they got there It's it's it's not an argument. Oh, they're dead. It's like, yeah, but they could be really interesting people Yeah, that's done. You'll find that loads of people have been arguing This movie should have been about her and Hawkeye their history like this. Yep Not this insane fucking plot line they went with It's like, no the problem was that she died. It's like, no, it wasn't Yeah, make me appreciate her even more retroactively We're promised, which is a damn hard sell at this point out already dead and thus frankly irrelevant if the deaths had been Mind of a child mind of a child irrelevant I thought one of the points you were making was that when characters are dead They can still be really relevant and that that's like good writing Well, now you're saying that she is just we said that she didn't I thought she did she said that when you kill a character Their impact is gone, right? And we had an awesome. Yeah, but then she talked about Castlevania and how like that Oh, would she is still relevant because it informs everybody else So it's possible. Yeah It was also weird because this is a prequel as well. So Yeah, sorry Her being dead. It's like, what do you mean? Oh, yeah, she's she's almost doubly wrong because this is a time where she was alive So she's there still things that she could do that could make us go. Oh, wow She did that now that she's already dead and thus frankly irrelevant If the deaths had been properly impactful and narratively worth the cost None of this rollback would have been necessary I think I'm curious. I needed I need examples of good characters You know that are done well with good deaths and good endings I need to get the comparison Between the bad and the good from her that that'll probably be the only thing that'll help me just Understand what the hell she's talking about Because here we've got no standard other than gender. We got no kind of set of criteria Now In fairness, okay, some characters really are plot devices in the stories and arcs are more important people white But that okay, wait, but that just destroys everything Yeah Yeah, but not all those other ones, but some are but not all the ones that I've mentioned or that I've ever Really halfway you make a ruler that just make the opposite rule Can we just play gothic phone? No In fairness the fact of the matter is that characters are not real people Characters are parts of a story and they exist to further a narrative and some of them You could say that every character everybody is a plot device. Yeah in some sense A plot is their existence. I mean, yeah Really are not real people characters are parts of a story They exist to further a narrative and some of them really are just props in other characters lives And that's not a morally bad thing Whoa, so she's saying that prior to this she really was saying it's morally bad to do Like the fridging. It's not it's not even just bad writing. It's morally bad Um Morally bad like like if I'm making a share wrong the carpenter isn't just like you know You're not just fucking it up in terms of like, you know, how you make a chair This is also a morally bad thing you're doing like you shouldn't be attacking the wood. Did she really say that? Well, so it's an implication if you listen to what she says Yeah, let me see characters are parts of a story To further a narrative and some of them really are just props in other characters lives And that's not a morally bad thing Yeah, there was an implication It's not a morally bad thing that some people some characters are props to other characters Yeah, meaning there are times where it is morally bad meaning the stuff that she's been over That's because now we're in the portion of okay now time to talk about characters that are fridged Technically speaking, but it's not a bad thing Not a morally bad thing The story probably shouldn't make you think that sure we the audience may be able to guess that the hero's small peaceful town And stern but fair father figure just exists to get torched by the dark lord in episode one to set up the inciting incident And set them on the hero's journey But the hero doesn't know that and that's what's supposed to be important about Wow sure, but but that isn't Go ahead the hero almost never knows that like the like the matter of the story They were only kill because actually x-men origin's wolverine is probably the only example I can come up with Where they are aware that the person was killed or in that case framed to be faked to be killed to motivate them to do a particular thing So now is she she's suggesting that when they are aware it is bad But the 99.9 of stories they aren't aware I think I think the idea is in universe The hero was not aware that they that they are like on a hero's journey and that their family is going to get fridged When are they? I think that That's what I think that's what I think she's saying she's saying that the hero doesn't know that all these things are going to happen Which is like of course because if they knew it was going to happen, they'd be like let's go Yeah, but so that's the point. Yes, that's you're right. They don't know that obviously like of course they don't know that Yeah And she's and she's saying like that's the preferable thing. It's like that is the the the thing That is the norm Yeah, and now now i'm confused Let us listen to her again because that shit is confusing People to guess that the hero's small peaceful town in stern But fair fair just exists to get torched by the dark lord at episode one to set up the inciting incident And set them on the hero's journey But the hero doesn't know that and that's what's supposed to be important about this to the hero That's their whole world torching that town and icing that father figure off screen Just tells the audience that the hero might theoretically care But we don't have to and the story won't really convince you that the hero does What does that have to do wait? Sorry that that is totally disconnected from what you just said That's like a totally different point This is this is a totally different point. I mean this point essentially gets into you are now talking about meadow I'm lost. I'd have to listen to it again. I got lost. Yeah, me too. Yeah, go for it I'm rolling back even further because I'm really trying to see what her point is here The story probably shouldn't make you think that sure we the audience may be able to guess that the hero's small peaceful town in stern But fair father figure just exists to get torched by the dark lord at episode one to set up the inciting incident And set them on the hero's journey But the hero doesn't know that and that's what's supposed to be important about this So I want to pause you there just for a sec because you hear that whole point right? She said that maybe we will be able to guess it But the important part is that the character doesn't Yeah, so that is the whole story of the stories that you yeah, because characters don't know that they're in a story They don't know that there are sounds like a story. We're fine now that fridging isn't even a thing Because it's all fine But anyway, let's let it continue The hero that's their whole world torching that town other figure off screen just tells the audience that the hero might Theoretically care, but we don't have to and the story won't really convince you that the hero does care It disconnects us from So this is More execution of the idea Yeah, this is how this is all execution of the concept Some things do it well some things do it poorly some things do it in the middle This is all in execution because the concept is there's nothing wrong with this concept It's about how do you convey this information to? Us the audience so you've totally shifted from the character who he's kind of removed from this now Now we're talking totally meta is about us. You started talking about the protagonist now. You're talking about us And am I misreading this she just said that If like if we see it all happen Then we know like it's meaningful to them if we see if it happens off-screen they're told then Theoretically it matters to them, but it won't be impactful to the story because otherwise we would have seen it Which is just wrong Absolutely, that's just wrong. I mean we've already talked about the impactful off-screen deaths And what is like that was one of the That was one of the early things that just got us to just go and what about us seeing all around explode But obi-wan not seeing it Like it's super meaningful to him. Yeah Well, it would be meaningful to him whether or not you like felt it through the force as well You know Safe for Luke as well, right? Like it's it's a whole planet and the idea is like, yeah, but they We weren't shown them watching it. So it's probably not going to be impactful to the story Like i'm curious exactly how this works I feel like that curiosity is not going to be rewarded. No Someone we're supposed to be relating to and it undercut of the death when the emotional impact of the death is the only thing This trope has now if the father figure had been with us No, the emotional impact of the death can be presented information wise to the audience in a very Meaningful way again. That that's execution of the idea. Also. It's not the only thing that it has What if I have a story where um the character who gets bridged is like, wow, I mean we got Ned Stark, right? His death is significant in terms of just politics Like the world it's not just the emotional impact. It's his place within the world. So what if I fridge your character? Then it's not strictly the emotional impact necessarily. It could also just be logistics Well, John Aaron's world operated John Aaron's the one that people were referencing at the beginning of episode one a game of thrones He's that he begins with his death and we don't really know anything about him In the show We know a little bit about his relationships with some people, but ultimately it's strictly a political death He dies and it forces a bunch of politics things to happen I see And so yeah, but this yeah, we can create so many different examples of um Sort of these of it because it's like it's implied. There's a key component So you got to have that it's like so what if we didn't and it worked like that's basically all we've been doing this whole video Say two seasons are the first actor two of a movie serving as a mentor figure For instance, we would expect him to die with some fanfare and we'd be weirded out and upset if he didn't A heroic sacrifice a dying monologue, but again if we do that, right? Um, you know like, uh Uh, it's gotta be movies I could reference here, but I'm just gonna make one up I guess because I can't think of one but if you do that like the Anthony Hopkins for example in Zorro Or someone else just um, if the death is quick After they've been so meaningful and so Introspectful and they've helped the heroes so much And they've told them like all about war and death and stuff especially if they talk about how death is so quick and stuff like that And you know, it's just something tragic happens in the middle of the next fight They have and they're gone. You don't even get to say goodbye sort of thing That can be really really meaningful. I don't know why we're blocking out sudden death Yeah, I don't know why we would either when if anything sudden deaths are actually uncommon Well, yeah, Obi-Wan the Tarantino or a sudden death is uncommon Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan, that's a sudden death. Yeah And that made me think of uh, good fellas when Joe Pesci gets shot. It's very quick and it's like that's kind of reflective Of well, yeah, and it gets into the question of what does she mean by fanfare? Because did Obi-Wan's death have fanfare technically? I don't know Serious black. Yeah That's actually a great fucking example Serious black because it's in the middle of like they're almost having fun Uh, when they're fighting back against the death eaters and then the right spells cast and he's just gone I don't even like Harry Potter that much Admission that the hero made him a better man and so very proud dies So we remember how he affected the hero's journey if we didn't get that kind of thing We'd feel cheated, but just because no because it's honest Think about that. What they do all the all these things beforehand. This reminds me of like the training is done They did the things it's done and does that they just okay Tempt to go to the big evil and then the big evil is no i'm way stronger I'm just gonna snap you out of existence This feels super childish to me because it's like wait Why didn't I get to have the characters talk to each other for a while as he bled out? That's way better. It's like no, it's not necessarily better Because the beating can come from the fact that their death was sudden like why are you doing this? It is on us as then the audience to talk about what that death meant being so quick Because remember Boromir's death to Gimli was in an instant He would have been like he's just gone the last time I saw him he was alive Yeah, Gimli shows up with Legolas at the end and he's just kind of he's Dying and like you can talk about what the meaning that has for them Meanwhile Aragorn was with him when he died and Marion Pippin didn't even see him die Because they were pulled away like this is all different experiences for all these different people Yeah Frodo learns about it in the Two Towers when he meets up with Farim Exactly and we've we've talked about how you can kill main characters off-screen It's gonna be about execution. It's got nothing to do with those specific elements happening or not Yeah, and we're fresh off a great example of that happening in media So yeah, this was poor timing on that aspect for her at least I'm blanking right now. What are you referring to? Squid Game Ah Anyway After he dies so we remember how he affected the hero I thought you meant movies. Do you know what I actually thought you meant which lead an extraordinary gentleman? Oh I often I guess I sort of it's kind of like how I like especially when it comes to Like these mini series kind of things where my mind's just like yeah, this is a long movie Journey if we didn't get that kind of thing we'd feel cheated We the audience haven't seen the chapter one dead dad for very long The author feels comfortable just torching the place off-screen after a single expository line of dialogue And then expects us to feel for the hero when the story hasn't made this death feel meaningful in this Yeah, this sounds like I don't like it when this idea is executed poorly. I think it's worse than that She's practically she's practically got us to the point where we can't even disagree She's like it is less meaningful because of the last meaning that is in it and you're like wait, but yeah That's it's that's it's not a logical. Yeah And because it's like I didn't I didn't agree the last meaning in this. I didn't worry. Yeah Yeah, just because we don't see it exactly doesn't mean it's less meaning Forcing us to think about it, you know not providing us with the visuals and making us do that well That is something Dead dad for very long The author feels comfortable just torching screen after a single expository line of dialogue And then expects us to feel for the hero when the story hasn't made this death feel meaningful in this structure The amount of weight a character death is given is not proportionate to how important the character is It's proportioned up how much screen time the character was given which you keep saying this is if it's true Dang that. Yeah, but you just the formula is not there. You just said it's true Also, is it all screen time is equal There are characters like let's take harley quinn harley quinn has gotten her own full movie and has been Significantly in two other movies Yeah, and I still know basically nothing about her. She's still practically blank slate level after all of that screen time Then I don't take you take a look at boremere. You're like, I know so much about boremere Yeah, for how much she appears I don't mind what she's written on this slate here. It's just I just think her examples are poor This one said if that once again demanding that she say in my opinion. No, not this time I'm asking that she say something So qualify something you just point something out interesting is that what she's got on screen is actually not what she's talking about at the moment Because this is true Like it yeah the screen time will not determine how much the character cares about them But that's not what she's saying. She's saying that the screen time indicates How much they should be cared about Which is a different that's like that's not the same point that you have up on screen Yeah Nothing to do with how the characters should be reacting to this clutching is a very disliked trope for several reasons Some character deaths have um aviates that reduce how tragic such unpleasant they are her Contentment and then Fridging never does never Wait, fridging never does these Never or that it fridging never has caveats that reduce how tragic and unpleasant they are So wait, but she said thinking of her loved one when she died black widow. She said that that's that's like the prime example And she's only thinking about all of her loved ones family That's why she's dying remember. She's not falling while screaming. She smiles at horgai She's black widow is doing all three. Oh, she's doing all three of them. Yeah It is a heroic sacrifice personal contentment man. That is wow. What a fail. That is poetic That is poetic. You can't hear her screaming because she's in the fridge Yeah, black widow is She is sacrificed for herself for her loved ones. It is the ultimate This is insane. This this we are approaching levels of mean This video might be a joke and we're just now discovering it That's insane. That's that's not it right That is unbelievable. I can't believe that It rhymes just like a stads or it rhymes That's crazy. That's amazing Fridging is a very disliked treasons for one thing you'll be hard-pressed to find a heroic death trope that people like heroic sacrifices are basically Heroic death people like heroic sacrifices. What an iron man. I love them. I love heroic sacrifices Wait, I'm confused. Why is she saying that now that that feels like that's not been the point at all We got a Wait, but honestly, I'm I'm so bewildered that she said that I need more like I don't believe that's what she thinks Fridging is a very disliked treasons for one thing You'll be hard-pressed to find a heroic death trope that people like heroic sacrifices are basically the only one That's even halfway appreciated since for the most part killing a character is gonna feel bad But more importantly fridge. What the fuck are you talking about? What are you on about? I didn't feel bad when Darth Vader died. What is she talking about? Heroic sacrifices Like what are the most obvious ways to get someone to be happy with a storyline? They love heroic sacrifices It is it is the greatest way that you could basically die. It is she's so it pretty much is the best way that you could die She's so wrong In in Christianity, right? If you sacrifice yourself to save another person that's like a free ticket to heaven And it's like everyone's just going to be referencing all kinds of ones in chat It's like yeah, do you understand how some of the most popular moments for characters are heroic sacrifices? Iron man in endgame the highest grossing film of all the world second highest grossing Of all time Well, hey, you know what's number one is avatar, right? Is there a heroic sacrifice in that? Kind of isn't there like doesn't he uh, doesn't there are a lot of heroic sacrifices in that movie? Yeah, you're right. Why don't I fight? Well, you think every soldier who goes out there and dies fighting for a noble cause As you can say it's heroic sacrifice And then you go Like i'm just thinking the most popular movies all time is like titanic jack sacrifices himself for real Sacrifice. Absolutely. That was a one person train to Busan Talk about heroic sacrifice Jesus Christ. Yeah I'll just look up the list of the highest grossing movies How far down do we have to go until there's not a heroic sacrifice We just got done with one of the stupidest things that she said she contradicted herself hardcore But now it's like I think it's been trumped. She just said like people don't like heroic sacrifices People halfway tolerate them. Yeah, they tolerate heroic. No people love them. They want them. I love them. Wally. Wally heroic sacrifice Well any kind of act of good involves some sacrifice to some degree typically Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, absolutely I mean Christ is an avatar of sacrifice the ultimate sacrifice. Well, well, not really, but He's the trouble thing. What do you mean? No, he had a bad weekend so he could go back to being the ruler of the cosmos Man This is unreal Ugh It's a trope that people like heroic sacrifices are basically halfway appreciated since for the most part killing a character is gonna feel bad But more importantly fridging lacks the counter balancing qualities that can make a character death feel satisfying or earned like blackboarders Oh, well, we'll wait Usually usually when we talk about fridging we are talking about We're at a point where the story is unresolved where there is more story to come So are we gonna say that any device that is something that is unresolved or it is creating something We had a resolve and then it has been broken that like any trope that breaks that is That I nah, it's just funny because she's got fridging never does above the three traits Because there's just no way to interpret anything other than she's just wrong. Unfortunately, basically I love the fucking salt in the comments because my jesus comment fucking Trying to be objective once in your goddamn life fending their loved ones Which is heartwarming the heroic with an element of free will and choice or fully at peace with their fate making Yeah, the iron giant. He was fridging. He was fridged. No, he was fridged. Well, no, I think she's saying this is a heroic No, I'm saying she was he was fridged because of his stupid rules. I'm like, no, he was fridged He died to make our main character sad and learn all the valuable lesson about about friendship A hero might die gallantly defending their loved one heroic with an element of free will and choice Or fully at peace with their fate making their death a natural conclusion to their arc or with some other caveat that makes Yeah, but when we're talking about natural conclusion to their arc Like is the idea that basically we can't have any deaths until the ending like the third act We can only kill people at the end of the story or what? Yeah, we've kind of been asking that this whole time like when is it acceptable to kill characters seemingly at the end Otherwise, they need to live forever and if they die it still needs to be like some level of you know There needs to be some counterbalance that I it's weird if it was like the appeal is no sad things, please I know Yeah, it fits in with the juvenile aspect of the rest of the video Nobody should die in any movie ever because it it gets rid of their storytelling potential I want more it's like I want more You know you get that you get oh we this character is dead so we can't get more of them And I just want more more more more more Yeah stories shouldn't end characters shouldn't end they should just keep going on and on and on and on Well, that is an extension of your prior logic with the whole like when you decide that a character dies It's worth more as a death in their life. And it's like, okay. Does that apply to ending stories? You have decided that the characters Sort of having the stories end here couldn't is more meaningful than going on It's like this weird thing that most rides would be like what no I've told my story. I didn't think I'm not saying that nothing meaningful ever happens. What are you talking about? Leave me alone go away Death works to end their personal arc and if their death is tragic It'll often be tortuously prolonged to really drive home to the audience that yeah, sorry a tragic like a tragic ending to a life Doesn't have to be it could be one second Yeah, why are you talking about that? She's like it's usually prolonged. You're like, uh, well Why are you saying this stop it? Sorry, I felt the problem with fridging is it's often unceremonious and like quick I'm I'm assuming she's saying like a quality of being able to spot it is that it will be extended Most of the time when in reality like a lot of them are very quick Yeah Some other caveat that makes the audience believe that their death works to end their personal arc And if their death is tragic and unfair it'll often be tortuously prolonged to really drive home to the audience that Yes, sorry, it's not a fluke or a fake out. The character isn't making it through this one Yeah, like fucking jackson. That was a really drawn out scene wasn't it and save him A classic film allowed missed example spoiler alert mays Hughes professional funny man and sweetheart is unexpectedly killed Fairly early in the series because he figured out the overarching plot way too early So the villains needed him out of the way His death serves as a major motivation for most of the heroes most notably roi mustang But I see so he was fridged interesting telling you man is the fucking anime rule I hate to say it. Well, I don't believe I don't agree with her What fridging is I'm just saying that it qualifies under her crazy rules It's not just a token heroic motivator to get the protagonists in gear. It feels awful. It feels awful. It feels awful What It's anime so you paid attention like I don't know what to say What are you even why are you not what about the other examples where you're just you just don't They're they're more than this and you just don't Know The reason frustrated because I don't care or you're not familiar with it You know what else felt awful watching. Good morning. Get killed by that. So watching black widow give up her own life to save everyone Come on feels though my feels I only want to feel good things I go to the theater and have fun. Okay you guys. Mm-hmm. I don't want to feel sad Tragic it's unfair. He fights very hard to stop it from happening all of these things apply that. Oh my god Like this is so bad So I'm like, well, I'm so here's the thing. I'm actually familiar with this material Not only in video form because I've watched the show or at least this part to the show I've also read it in the manga form Read this ain't that this is just it's it's it's wild that this gets all the fanfare and the other ones are just like Nah, if I can like win oakimora, then I'll Yeah, I'd agree with you. I I cared a lot about macy's death, but uh at the same time Yeah, I don't understand how he qualifies while the others don't She's like it fought hard. It's like, did you watch the scene with black widow? She fucking fights hawkeye It is a is way longer way more prolonged God, what are we doing? His wife and daughter are devastated and the ramifications are felt This death would not work the same if it happened off-screen I can replace all of these visuals with people reacting to black widow's death Yeah Didn't you die off-screen? He's in a phone booth, right? I can't remember Yeah, I I can't remember if he dies off-screen or if it cuts to the subtle imagery of his blood washing over his family photograph I don't think you see it. I don't yeah. I don't I think that's an off-screen death Yeah Um and by the way, whether or not it was off-screen it could totally function off if it happened off-screen Absolutely. It's a good. It's good. Yeah. It was a sad thing. I hated seeing it It could not be replaced by a binder of pokemon cards. No, but neither could black widow's death Yeah, if you dropped a binder of pokemon cards, it wouldn't be To be sure that would be a hilarious scene You need to sacrifice hopefully you'll laugh and he just gets his pokemon card collection Frozen down the red skull is like the first edition charizard Like man, you loved them a lot, didn't you? He's like, yeah. Yeah, I really did I really did. Yes, but they're first editions the sacrifice must be made Can I just throw one of them? He's like, no the binder the entire binder Not the holographic charizard, please Maybe here's a here's a slightly It is sort of related My most pri- I guess in terms of sentimental value My most prized pokemon card because I kept all my old shit I kept all my old pokemon cards magic card saw that It is a A humble cat her pee Um, it's a card that I got It was the first trading card that I ever got It was an extra that my best friend growing up gave to me That has the most sentimental value of all the cards So There you go. There's there's your example right there I would be upset if someone destroyed that particularly In front of my face or if it had an off-screen death and then I learned about it. Well It's a harsh reality You're gonna care more about someone destroying that and then finding out Jim Bob jr. Died yesterday in some country. He'd be like, oh that sucks But the card is probably gonna fuck you up a little bit more because of how much it means to you The reality of human beings I hate human beings. I know me too Good. Yeah, they're lame And it could not be replaced by a binder of pokemon cards It means too much to the story so it's not fridging Fridge characters do not get this kind of treatment and frankly, they're lucky if they get personal arcs at all They die Well, that's the thing you think this is, you know, if gamora got fridged and if It undivides Like widow got fridge. Yeah, it's just it's wild. I mean with this image of black widow doing literally all three of these guys It's and then saying like it has to have an impact on the story. It's like, yeah, black widows didn't Nope To make another more important character feels sad or mad. It's not a heroic sacrifice. They have no agency in it They're not at peace with no agency. She literally like forced his Hawkeye to have it die Yeah, are we not gonna have any story? So can we not have characters who die in and not cool with it? Well, so this is the problem She's she's basically said a pizza is and then she said it is cheese. It is tomato It is and we're like, well, it doesn't have to have cheese on it. You can have Other things to qualify. It's like the bread one complicated Uh tomorrow she said like pineapple. We'd be like, okay Why does it have to have pineapple on it? And that's what we're doing. She's she's given us components So we're like, well, no, not really that she's like, well, no, that's just more of an indicator If you see a slice of bread with cheese on it, you're more than likely a pizza and you're like No And their personal arcs if they get them aren't neatly resolved in time for it Their death or brutalization is cruel and unfair because it's designed to feel cruel and unfair to the character They're supposed to hurt or motivate Also to the audience can also be Yeah, it could also be legitimately those things and the frame of the story It can be cruel It really can't be cruel and unfair and that could be part of the tragedy. The interesting thing here is that She's fucked up in the Black widow's death isn't what motivates anyone to do anything in particular They were already in motion. Yeah, who death doesn't make anyone do anything that they weren't already doing Yeah So that blackwit that was like the worst fucking example because every single thing she says that qualifies it as fridging It doesn't qualify As a result it undercuts the only semi-ok parts of makes the experience relentlessly unpleasant and catharsis free for the audience Now this is not a mistake This is an intentional part of the trope because it essentially sets up an unstable narrative situation The protagonist must now work to stabilize and resolve usually by hunting down It's called an inciting incident When things aren't good and then the character needs to go and make things right The problem here is the she said like fridging intentionally does this like so does not fridging them. So there's a lot of things. Yeah, yeah It's useless Why would any writer write something that's intentionally narratively unsatisfying? Yeah, why would you want to do that ryan johnson? I want to write a bad story ryan johnson does it a lot. Yeah, I I would just say ryan johnson. Why would you write something that's so intentionally unsatisfying? I share the sentiment. I just know who to direct this question to really Why I work to stabilize and resolve usually by hunting down and stopping the killer This is a motivation that starts an arc. So it's not meant to feel like an arc resolution Which is often the only part of a character that the audience halfway appreciates But it betrays a fundamental dismissal of the fridged character Which undercuts the very emotional impact they're trying to invoke as an example. I just I disagree but carry on Joke Barbara Gordon aka batgirl is shot paralyzed and brutalized by the joker Entirely to upset jim gordon and batman and kickoff. So I don't believe you is the problem I'd have to read it. Yeah, I I no longer believe you You cannot be trusted to accurately convey information to me if I'm not familiar with it. So let's just Coast ahead. Yeah One last terrible joke. She's not even killed but how it affects her is entirely glossed over in story In fact, all she says to batman afterwards from her hospital bed is how worried she is about what the joker's gonna do to her dad It's heroic of her to be concerned, but that's not why her reaction was But that that's that's character writing, isn't it? I was gonna say that's interesting That she's condemning the fact that Barbara's more concerned about what might happen to her father after what's happened to her Which is really great character building. Yeah, she even said that was character work. So I'm confused Is this I uh, is it because she's a woman and her father is a man Uh Well, um someone in chat said this is actually considered an example of fridging. So it's like the thing is she's saying it So I just like I don't know if it's true. I hate it when we we concede on content We haven't seen that this comments like guys. That's not at all what that story is about. It's like, well, I Unfortunately, I haven't read this. I'm just have to go on what she's saying That way Barbara didn't matter to this story actually said he kind of regrets treating her that way He thinks his editor probably should have reigned him in instead of responding with and I am apparently quoting. Yeah, okay Cripple the bitch that fundamental I feel like there's a lot more going on there that we don't have context for let's just put it that way The dismissiveness on the part of the creator really does drive home that fridging is a fundamentally broken trope If the author fundamentally interesting. What's a broken trope compared to a functional trope? An unbroken trope. Yeah I'm guessing Is what is what she's suggesting that The there are tropes that are almost like good and then there are tropes that are bad and this is one of the bad ones Then the idea that it's fundamentally broken implies that there is no version of this that is good It is like intrinsic to what it is A bad thing which by the way the people who said in the first like hour of this fucking stream We she's not saying it's bad. It's like, where are you now? Mentally and morally broken I don't like the term fridging. It's stupid Like there's a bit of an overlap with like gas lighting where it's a term that has a very specific Origin in like a play and like a woman was driven crazy by her husband who like made the candles You know dim and flare up and it drove her crazy and so the term gas lighting is relevant to that phenomenon but with in the case of fridging like the fridge In that green lantern comic that has nothing to do with why that You know that story element is bad like The the fridging kind of makes you focus on the fridge. That's not the important thing. The important thing is if A death is like unmotivated and forced like why are you calling it fridging? I don't get it You can all give a show again. I'm curious about that green lantern example Like what maybe it actually makes sense in context, you know that that fridge. Yeah, someone was looking for that after this A body was put into a fridge Yeah, if if we went as far as finding out because none of us read that presumably um If we found out that it made sense that the villain did that and that his green lanterns reaction to it makes sense It's like at that point I'd be struggling to criticize it outside of just yeah, but it's The girl deserved more or something like that because we come back to the whole leg Well, is the story about these things or not? Um, is it about knowing her well before she's killed? Uh, so yeah fridging I can understand what you mean by it, but obviously I assume it's shawhand and Videos like this are supposed to explain to a wider audience What it means to say someone is fridged so that we can then improve the speed of communication All this is done is fuck it up completely though It's a quick single word identifier for a trope. I guess it's fine and as far as yeah Yeah, the etymology of it is On the part of the creator really does drop it honestly I'm not trying to be mean, but she's made it so that black widow was fridged So now like how much does that fuck up the conversation? Yeah, this is this is not good It reminds me of the Mary Sue thing because like I instead of saying someone is a Mary Sue I will instead comment on the components Of their characterization that are flawed That could qualify them as Mary Sue, but that's irrelevant It's like whether or not they are or not it doesn't matter whether or not a character's fridge is not as irrelevant We're gonna talk about the actual relationships the meaning the you know That's just let's just do that instead because shit like this just makes it so no one can fucking understand each other At home that fridging is a fundamentally broken trope If the author doesn't care about the character enough to give their pain narrative weight They'll have a very hard time convincing the audience to care when they suffer the only way the author So this is this irony Absolutely, if um If a character Has a wife that I don't really know and they die or husband, whatever Um, I still depending on what I know about them. I'm still gonna feel something for them Because I know them What's interesting about this for me is that there is A couple of examples in Look, it's been Four hours and 20 minutes. I don't think I mentioned it at all last stream. Okay, so I'm allowed at least one Surely one per stream In Buffy Some of the deaths are not actually really about the person who died it's about what they meant to other people Like like your your the tragedy and your sadness may not really come from them being gone necessarily It's just more so focused on what does this mean for those other people um Which in a sense I find interesting because like she's practically said like it's like what were they who were they blah blah blah It's like they could theoretically die without any characterization Beyond the relationship they had with the person and then we just look at what that means for the person I don't know that it's an impossibility or that it's a missed opportunity even Buffy spoilers I was vague You can make the audience care in the situation is by making this unimportant another more important character But since the author doesn't care about the fridge character They'll have a hard time writing the more important characters reaction to their fridging the more important characters See what I mean? She's almost angling it So it's like if we don't care about them and only what it meant to the other people Like that's like why would we care and I'm like there's loads of reasons we care I mean I'll you could you could not care about the character who died But you could care significantly about who it impacted and that could influence your writing and you could do an excellent job Like all of these characters are invented anyway Um, I guess Dom's wife could be an example of this We didn't see her or the relationship he had with her It was uh, we already learned about her for ages of that when you get to the conclusion of that All we have is his reaction to it You know, and you'd be like we didn't fucking know anything about it really I'm not saying that that's some kind of narrative masterpiece. I'm just saying you can make it work that way There's more about the fridge character than the author does So write their grief when they clearly can't even imagine it It comes across as shallow and hollow because no you can imagine about something and not care about it Hope streams any traits that aren't about them. It's like you don't have to Yeah, I I just I wish we knew about John Wick's wife Yeah, I think she got sick and died. That's all Each other very much. That's all we had and it's safe to say nobody cared about like the story in John Wick, right? No, nobody liked John Wick one. I don't think But maybe Well, but that's that's almost a problem, right? If she does classify that as fridging And inherently bad despite the fact that it's thoroughly worked with audiences. It's like so what's happening then? Yeah, I thought this yeah, I thought that this was are we all just wrong and why? Yeah, I'd like you to square that away because she's advocating a lot of the time that this is why people don't like this And it's just like k But they do Yeah, yeah, and when we got when we got 90 minutes two hours or so I mean if we have a protagonist, I expect that protagonist to get a lot more development and work put into them Then I do you know a fridged character like there you just got to be pragmatic about a lot of this right It is a fridging isn't just lacking in resolution. It's really lacking in real emotional weight. We're lucky real emotional. That's like saying That's like saying the first quarter of a basketball game is lacking resolution Like this is the beginning. This is like part of the setup the fridge the the fridged character is supposed to set up Another character's journey or a plot that isn't the resolution. Of course. This isn't the resolution part This isn't going to create resolution all the things that occur after it will I feel like you're just looking for something in the wrong place I just don't like saying real emotional weight triggers me I you know, I hate that fake emotional way fake emotional white We really know the character who dies and if we don't then really affects us by how it affects the characters who care about them And there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. That's fine You know, there are people who have died in real life that I've never met That I don't know anything about But someone that I do care about did know that person And that impacts me Yeah, I don't even want to reference it specifically, right? But like yes, they're yes 100% Yeah And only if we care about those characters in turn killing off not invested in tells us that character was never going to matter on their own Merit They do matter though because it propels the character forward. So they do matter because at this point, of course What does it mean to matter? What does matter mean that you exist in the story and that like you're there and you're doing stuff? Rags Hitler died off screen He died he died in bunker Yeah, what's very sad about that. I wasn't there but it was pretty sad The story is a whole so opening a story by fridging some clear message to the audience that most characters don't matter Look at the um Look at the because this is look at the the the the fire effect And you could see the line at the bottom where it's oh sure But I mean, I I wasn't sure if we're gonna comment on it, but I'm not super thrilled with the uh, the aesthetic Yeah, I know I'm not good It gets because it runs in extra credits It's not very fringy. Here's what we're gonna do what I'm gonna do fringies I'm gonna point out that the bookcase is three-dimensional, but the books are two-dimensional Well, yeah, because that's a And now you will never be able to say rags. I hadn't seen that yet. Why did you do that? You're gonna That is a perspective thing where if you've got books that are bigger We need to see the books gone. It's funny because I probably did this, but I don't have a million subscribers Thanks a lot. Like now it looks like a fake bookcase. Well, you know like what was got fake Things on it to try to look like a bookcase And we're not done think of all that space behind that bookcase. Yeah, I know it's that though. Yes You just can't it just can't use You know, it's not you can't use it though. Admittedly, I would say the more fundamental thing is that there is It is super inconsistent and so like the the the the bricks or the stones that they've got for the um for the black outlined Fireplace, they're like a texture sample And not drawn And so it looks really inconsistent with other drawn elements back. Yeah. Yeah It's like it's like a like a cheap indie game and they use a pre-bought Pre-bought asset from a store that doesn't fit anything else in their game And I guess normally I wouldn't say anything But I guess it's just weird because your channel is big enough that I would presume that you could just commission somebody to Do absolutely And plus like I have like that's one of the things it's cause plays I have I have commissioned a whole bunch of new art and it's getting sketched out and everything and I care about it and I'm like no to change this change that change this All of that shit that you commission for your channel You can write that off on your taxes because that's a work expense. It's business expense. Yeah But even if it wasn't you know what though, even if it wasn't you should just still be doing it anyway because like yeah Proves the look of the videos So we just said are they seriously commenting on the background? We spent four hours. Yes, we are four hours talking about the script Yes, we're gonna talk a little bit about the aesthetic Well, I mean it's it's part of the video It's part of the video It's all we needed to do to debunk the video. Those those books aren't in three dimensions I uh, I wasn't gonna bring it up. Um Bragg's mentioned it's like, all right, well Yeah, now I can I those books man those books are the ones that are actually throwing me off now Yeah, rags nearly did when he said it. He knew he knew what he was doing when he brought it out Oh, no, yeah, absolutely Every time I look at them now I acknowledge the 3d 2d thing It's like um, it's kind of like in a video game like oh, we have the the bookshelf is 3d But we have like a texture on the front of books You know that sort of thing Something I am surprised about is that there is a very few expressions on the character the character doesn't move around much and like There aren't many I'm pretty sure there have only been three expressions. I think or four Which sounds like a very yeah, yeah It does feel weird character that is not colored in You know, like it's and not shaded it It's not like an issue of creating the assets. It's not like that hard Well, I'd fully recommend she got herself loads of assets. I would recommend it. Yeah, it looks awesome. Look at rags Absolutely, it's just even more to come But y'all are gonna be blown away by some of the stuff you'll be seeing soon But in terms like you there's no, um, like artistic it doesn't Everything is its own thing The pillar of the chair that look at the board that comes down from the bottom right It's it's it's like a it's not drawn. It's a picture that comes down. You can see by the handle Um, it doesn't fit with anything else in here It's not because if I was doing it and you want to go with the The the fireplace big sofa armchair thing then you would have it on an easel It would be like you set up I think that's a projective thing that's going on there, right? Well, yeah, it is. Yeah, this is the kind of yeah You pull it down from the ceiling. It's all rolled up up there But it doesn't fit with everything else here Why isn't the background in a kitchen where we can see the fridge? Oh Fridge That wasn't even the joke I was making but sure Well, I feel like you could have just have a fridge sit and sit on top of the fridge while you're talking about this topic Yeah, and then at the end of the video you get inside it and a nuke goes off But I was gonna say honestly it seems like many elements of this image are done in different art styles and we're assuming that's the point Is that the point? I don't know. Well, it's so disparate Look at the logs than the bricks than the chair than her than the bookcase. It's like man. These are all very different Well, so I feel like the simpler explanation is this was made a while ago and it just hasn't been updated Could be that yeah, because you have it so like you just use it Maybe but still is like because you think about well, I have to make it So why not just make it? Like not look like shit Yeah, is I am more invested in your script. Unfortunately the script is fucking ass. So here's another one So look at the back right leg of the chair. No, no, no, we're doing The first the front two are like the the cut the you're right it is is that like you miss something No, but that's a chair thing where the the front two legs are actually Okay, sure, but it's it's the back right leg where the right side is actually red Could it be the front side is brown? Could it be there's a reddish light off to the right side of the room that's reflecting off it rags? Is that possible? Definitely. Why wouldn't it be reflecting off of her? Because it's it's a little it's a little laser light that's pointing directly at the chair leg It's not reflecting off the pillar though Yeah, because like I said, it's it's a it's a basically a cylinder light that only shines on that part of the leg of the chair to create the aesthetic Okay, also when like when you have the so like because I'm doing this too here and there and this new video you see it more But with you have the the for me I use a white board with markers of different colors and Like the the last color that's being used. I have different images for the one that the dog's holding, right? but But with here This is a drawing that's being on a on one of these pull sheet things, but it's framed in gray And it just sort of stops where the image ends, you know, he's like, uh, that's just uh He's hating and the white the white of the image doesn't match the white of the board. It's just like, uh These are a little touches It's just because I'm just I just need a little break That's the thing if all of this was just I just needed a little break If um if the video was top notch and a friend showed you this I imagine you'd be saying all of this stuff because you'd be like You're so close to greatness just get all these things tweaked and then yeah Like these are the final details for you to ascend into godhood. This is all that you need But I'm saying this is just because this has been an exhausting video. Yeah, and like every sentence is wrong um So it's nice to just You know point out the The fire peon they're like the little gif of the fire and the bottom of it cuts off on the fireplace and the Different dimensions of the product. It's just we're just enjoying it. You know, it's all adjourning the all the joke Just having fun. It's just a joke Yeah, it's just a joke and if you don't you just don't get it This is high brow humor. But we're doing here. We are Yeah Fuck sake now you pointed out that fire thing I can't not see it. This is a distinct line where it cuts. Yeah I saw that out hours ago. It was like, I'm just just not gonna mention it. I'm just gonna Torture myself Heroic sacrifice you could have at least Put it in line with the two bottom logs. You know what I mean? Just put it a little bit further down and those lines kind of match them a little bit so it would look a little better Yeah, or you you make a drawing with that line in mind You know Um, or you mask the bottom of the image to where it's more blurred So you don't get a straight line the fire just sort of appears It could even have done in it now like a cartoon fire to get the gift Where they did like, you know, like six frames of a fire just repeating like to make papery fires They could have done that. Yeah, it's this looks like a fire and aquatine hunger force where everything's a cartoon But fire is like a real fire effect that's occurring on something. Yeah Like south park this video isn't written as well as aquatine hunger force. No, of course not Matter which speed runs the disengaged audience problem. Fun fact, this is how supernatural begins I tried watching it way back when and lost interest after the first season or so But I remember the pilot because it's burned into my brain That's it's not I don't have criticisms of supernatural. It's not a problem. The story begins with, um Uh, Jeffrey Dean Morgan's wife getting like I think she's possessed by Azazel And she gets killed horribly And it motivates him to become a hunter of demons So like it's pretty much exactly what we were saying is like that's not necessarily bad You don't I think you find out more about her as time goes on and I know from the latest season Some significant developments happen in relation to the mum, but um I remember liking the pilot of supernatural quite a bit actually, so Yeah, I have not seen it. There's your setup First season or so, but I remember the pilot because it's burned into my brain Even at the time I could kind of tell the writing wasn't working first scene We meet our protagonist as young children in an idyllic home with their father and mother Smash cut to the night Their father wakes up to see his wife stuck to the ceiling with a horrified expression Then she explodes and the house burns down smash cut to the main plot It's a couple decades later Brother one is in college and has a girlfriend Brother two shows up and tries to give him a call to adventure to make the actual plot happen Brother one is reluctant because he's got so much going on for him in his personal life right now Then brother one's girlfriend gets has this been a 15 minute has the music been going on this whole time I think yes Yes, it has been and I'm assuming you don't know the answer to that because like me You've tried to just fucking block it out Yeah, it's just it it popped up again. I'm just I mean my brain is just like oh music. I know that song By the way, that's been there this whole time. Just want to point out. Okay She summarized most of episode one, but she did it in a voice that makes it sound like all the plot points are just bad like It just be like, you know Oh, yeah, there's a character who lives in a fucking happy little place And then his uncle has a ring and apparently this ring is apparently just an evil ring And he's going to hand it down to him and then the crazy wizard who's locally he is sometimes is like Oh, it's a big spooky ring And so he ends up going to a different place with a bunch of elves until he ends up and he's just like why What are you doing? He's just saying the whole story Stuck to the ceiling it explodes so it's time for a road trip happened It was kind of spooky the second time it happened. I actually laughed I looked this up to make sure I was remembering the details right and apparently in the plot Both of these women were killed specifically because the bad guy had plans for the protagonist And in the case of the girlfriend, he's the one who introduced them in the first place specifically so we could manipulate the protagonist by killing her That's just I mean god. That's so funny. So self like that's what it's like. She's pointing out. See it's fridging But it's like, well, but wait, it has an in narrative justification. There's a reason the villain is doing this to them Yeah, what's the funny part? I missed it. Yeah You just explained the reason for the thing But I guess Okay, I guess That's the pilot no wonder death is meaningless in this show tries to write about that Um, everybody dies in that show and then often comes back and stuff. It's a bit a bit flimpy. Yeah happens Clearly disposable Yeah, you go ahead for it. Okay On there to focus Put on other character equals audience is not made to mourn the character who actually died. Yes. That is correct I mean job Move on not made to audience is not made to mourn the character odd wording, but it's just Just goes back to yes. We you're not supposed to mourn that character. We're supposed to care about the character. You have to work for it Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm assuming you were gonna say we don't mourn that character We feel for the the person who's lost them. Yeah, and that's fine beginning of god of war 2018 That's fine. That's not this is what I mean. I don't just that where the problem is that it's fine Whether or not they're a girl or boy that is fine Yeah How she's defining disposable Oh dies It would dispose. It's so post-op like if they died, they would dispose of what I'm leaning to at this point Uh, yeah, especially she described like what was disposable Yeah, if you kill a character that means that their death is worth more than the things that they could do in life That that means disposable all deaths are But um, yeah, we're definitely we're out again because she's like Talking about how obvious it is like the audience isn't gonna connect Oh, that's supernatural was hyper popular. It only continued because people just kept wanting more of it. So Like you can't appeal to the audience with this one. It worked for them Uh, you know on average, I guess I just think The audience is made to mourn the character who actually is not made to mourn them And I'm just like, I don't know. Is that a problem? Is it a problem when someone dies and we didn't we didn't know them Just so we've been with the whole thing. Do I have to know everybody in a story? Tries to have things both ways it gives us a character who clearly doesn't matter on their own And then kills them in a way that highlights that they didn't matter. What makes a character matter on their own Matter on their own. She said like a character who clearly doesn't matter on their own. It's like, what does that mean? Yeah. Yeah I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to think um If she's just like she works in a diner or something she's just doing it day to day She hangs out with her friends and family Like maybe she means that if the protagonist didn't exist with the character matter But again, but if the protagonist didn't exist and we're talking about a whole different story. Yeah, it's just a different story The character matters to themselves like they care about themselves Like I'm sure they're not thrilled about dying probably so But they don't have to How they feel about it is kind of irrelevant oftentimes Especially to how the protagonist feels about it I think a character mattering should be like tied Thematically to the story somehow and not just be like that I liked that character therefore that character matters like a comic relief character. So oh that guy made me laugh And then they die. It's like, oh, I really care about that character. He's he mattered so much But if I would just go into the pragmatic aspect of If you are introducing a character that does not matter would not that screen time and effort and money Go better into a character who Does matter who does have some influence on the plot or something So here's a question It's basically been defined that if a character dies and it motivates a main character to do something That's bad because they weren't a character on their own They were just a thing that makes the character do something else Like so characters who die and don't motivate a character to do anything Is that like the most catastrophic thing ever? Or is it fine because It's whatever like someone just gets killed and a character doesn't care about yeah I feel with her logic. You could justify it both ways. Yeah, I don't know what she would say about that I don't know. Yeah, we've had we've had 16 minutes of this and I'm still just sort of baffled at The I don't I don't I was about to call it a process, but I don't think it's a process This is one of those efeb acting dumb to make a point bits If you said any of them this character doesn't matter on their own, I absolutely guarantee that's the highest by that word you You know what they mean. No, okay. So because you're a bit slow I'll help you out when you say does a character matter, right? You've got when they died and they motivate someone to do it Oh, so they matter. It's like no, that's not mattering to the story. It's like, oh So you mean like they had their own characters like yes, and I'm like well, but that doesn't mean they matter to anything They just had a character. It's like maybe it means they mattered if they have an impact on the world around them Like no, no, it means that they have to have a character to matter I should be like I have no fucking clue what you mean when you say they have to matter I have no idea. I'm trying to find out because otherwise I can't figure out your stupid formula I think a character does matter if their death motivates somebody. I think they mattered Yeah, they influence change within the story. Maybe it's a matter of some all the more that it's necessary They spur agency and other characters Story by their own merit But then tries to tell us that they're really mattered to the character we're supposed to sympathize with It's like the worst kind of damsel in distress a character in trouble Who's only how is it care about is that they're in trouble? It's all the funny things I don't I don't think damsel distress is a bad thing. I'm fine with yeah, I'm fine with damsel's being in distress I'm fine with men being distressed as well. Like it's yeah This is what I have a place into the cons Mario goes to get princess peach is the problem She's a damsel in distress until she has her own game, then it's okay Well, I mean she was in super mara 3d world. You can play us her. She's helping out in the adventure I just like tropes fucking annoy me because it's just like if you have your female character being something The man wants to save and she doesn't really have a character on her own your story's bad It's like, no, it's not you just said it was no I mean it's damsel What's the male equivalent of a damsel? I probably still would be cold damsel in distress I imagine it's the same as you can call some male characters mary sews depending on because gary stews a different sort of thing If I see a girl locked in a tower and she's like, please help me I'm stuck in this tower and I want to get out and I'm being trapped here against my will Um, how do I have to be like? Yeah, but what's your backstory? Oh my god, what do you like? Dude the definition of damsel in distress Bring you fucking Like the Whole of the world's whole of the world qualifies. Yeah Yes, the fucking Yeah, that is that I don't care if it does. That's what I mean It's like what you see a fucking tropes at this point Avoid them doing so you get great stories even if they kill a whole bunch of good stories all the way The epitome of tell don't show if we don't care about the character in unceremoniously We'd never have a reason to care if we do care about the character and they die quickly and unceremoniously And all we focus on is how bad that makes someone else feel it feels like a bad use of their How bad it makes Thanos feel star lord feel nebula feel the lack of her existence in the storyline And what that means for ongoing consequences and then the fact that it ends the world two degrees yes Is all of that other than that nothing And She's compensating hardcore here because she just said like if we don't know the person then why are we gonna care? We know gamora well and she's like, yeah, but it's framed as though it's only sad for the purple guy I think this lady needs to understand that women are going to die In stories and you're going to have to fucking grow up and get over it I like it. This was an incel that we got great characters like gamora and black widow Be thankful save the incel save the world And she'll and it makes us aware of the hand of the author, which is never a good Some authors recognize this without really recognizing the problem for anyone else. Yeah. Um, I don't know if I missed anything, but we can throw it back Yeah, it might have ever happened here If we do care about the character and they die quickly and unceremoniously and all we focus on is how bad that makes Someone else feel it feels like a bad use of their potential and it makes us aware of the hand of the author Which is never a good thing now some authors recognize this without really recognizing the problem And we'll try to play it one of two ways in one school of thought the soon to be fridged character Will suddenly be given an unprecedented amount of on-screen folks So this is closer to how we recognize it and yeah our rules are very simple to the point We don't even require fridging as the colloquial. We'll just be like no It's just a character that's just poorly characterized or essentially meaningless because there's just nothing blah blah blah Her rules have involved she's now saying like these are things that they try and compensate with Meanwhile, we usually identify it with these Yeah And a handful of purposefully heartwarming or cute character traits being invested in this hitherto non-character So it feels halfway momentous when they die. I like to call this the weed in school of fridging or the colson Wrong wrong wrong wrong The colson had loads of screen time All the collective emcee up to this point he gets loads of this He's consistently characterized at his death is very meaningful because it's an attempt to help out the heroes even though he's completely outmatched I like that she's the weed in school of thought. It's not even Weedons are fucking legend at killing people. He's like relatively famous for it And chat's gonna know what i'm referencing Fucking firefly has one of the most referenced Well, I say firefly is more so serenity, but you know what i'm talking about chat Then um, certainly buffy and angel's death scenes. Holy fuck. These are not characters that you don't know and only knew But for one seed before where they talked a lot. That's not at all what weed does Weedon as a legend at killing that's a sentence. He is so is you know, george our mom is really good at it too I'm more than happy to say um This is this is bullshit. Like this is this is the worst way to kill characters when you're like The example she gives pretty good. It's like, uh, the little joy was like i'm this close to retirement and I love my wife Yep, off you go Fucking um The resident evil movies would do that that we watched him, you know, it's like Be like, oh this this character. He's nice. We like them. Oh the dead Oh If you're if you're if you're just existing and alice shows up get the fuck out You got a timer on you you get out of that story all three of the men she shows a love interested. They all die Some of them die twice. Yeah Like the groups that she comes across She her arrival will spell your doom leave I don't even know that she knows that colson was in other movies Like I don't I don't even know that she knows I could believe that she doesn't remember or she never even saw it's hard to tell When you're just wrong about everything it's hard to tell whether or not you don't remember or you've never even saw it to forget it This is the author's attempt to speed run the getting the audience process without having to actually make the character It's such a bad example because colson was the perfect person to kill in terms of we can't kill any main characters But we need to kill someone that's more meaningful than literally giving them one scene of going. Ha, I'm a nice person It's like, yeah, this guy has been in all the other movies He's been really friendly with everybody. He's just trying to make everything work and he's competent at his job And he's also got some courage in there. So like it really it works. It's probably why we didn't chose to kill him Obviously he comes back in the show, but that's fine. We were doing that right now Stand on their own or like matter side sometimes a fridge character will give this is she saying colson didn't matter Okay, colson absolutely mattered Okay Oh boy All right strategy two suddenly tonally at peace. Have I told you guys I finished my bucket list the last thing with All right How was that any different from the first one where you said two days from retirement in your little fucking like is that or is that Because oh was that there nearly at peace and inverses? I am at peace and those are your two strategies I think you can separate these Enough in the you can have a character that just I don't know their goals are complete, but they're not they don't have to be Old or young, right? Yeah, that's right Some kind of token justification for why their death is okay act usually along the lines of I'm at peace now or I already Have everything I wanted or the real treasure was our friendship or something This is an attempt to cluj together a satisfying character resolution So it doesn't feel completely unceremonious But it suffers from the fact that the fridgeed character definitely didn't have an arc leading up to it It doesn't fully counterbalance the disengagement arc. You don't have to have an arc. How does she not know this? How does she not know this? You need a whole arc before you die everybody We've got Get everything that they want before they there's like like lady. I got places to be We're so close to the end that I'm less invested in And she's referencing somebody that I haven't seen so On ceremonies character death because it feels token and diskin if the character's arc was oh my god This is mortal engines. We have to see mortal engines. We I'm on board with seeing that Do we have to yeah? What do you mean? Yeah, we Perfect free fat movies. It looks Yeah, I think mortal engines. It's like the biggest bomb in history So I know that much An arc of the biggest bombs just all of the biggest box office bombs. Yeah I think watching this Understanding that it lost more money than like anything Will really be I think it'll be interesting watching it knowing it'll be interesting to think about why you would do this Movie, I guess because probably we're watching me like this was never going to make that much money Yeah, I I think it's It's it I I would love to do any fat movies with it I saw it and I was one of the three people who went to theaters and saw it Yeah 150 million dollar budget Um, and it earned 83.7 million. It is estimated to have lost 175 million dollars. Oh neat By the way, if you look at the thing she says earlier in the story fully unprompted Dialogue presumably from this character who's dying when this body is done throw my ashes to the wind and I can Face anything even death as long as my spirit is free You could subvert that and they don't die Like that would be that would be a beat, you know, it's like they talk about how they're ready for death And then they don't die Like that's you know, she's saying like it's obvious They're gonna die because they've talked about how they're happy to die It's like no that could be that it's obviously not gonna die because they're the only character that's comfortable with it Like the you don't know It's not an indicator. It's not a strong an indicator as character. We've never met before going. Oh boy. I love livid Hey, everyone I hope I'll die. Oh my my grandma gave me My boot today. It's a real nice one. I'm gonna wear it loads I actually would like a character like that be funniest Fuck you just never dies keeps talking about how great everything keeps To hear them say it out loud seconds before they die It shouldn't need to hear the characters say I love you to know they're in love You know, I love you shouldn't be a surprise coming from the person who said they have to have like a speech before they die to make It ceremonial it can't be quick You know what I think there are certain people who just I don't think I've ever told anyone that I love them You know Like I just have never said the words so sometimes once a character says it It's very meaningful because they said it and it's not cheap. It's valuable that they said it Agreed The ad is coming. It's so close. We only probably have a minute left before the ad Yeah, just want to make make sure that the example is given the empire strikes back Is that basically one of those famous movies will tie but it does that The audience and neither should I'm totes cool with death now Both just end up feeling like a way to compensate for inadequate writing last minute. You may recall But see the problem What does death and end game did both of these things and it was bad because neither of these writing tricks make up for wasted character I didn't actually do either of those things because she has a huge fucking stuff It's so bizarre to pick her At least I could understand picking colson because she hasn't seen the other movies, but End game like like going after black widow while referencing the other movies. Like you must have seen his scenes, right? Just one of them Avoiding fridging is a matter of Ooh, how do not fetch a lot of text. Okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, this is great treat the character like a main character Do you know how fucking dumb that statement is? What if what if they aren't treat the character like a main character implies there is more than main characters That are characters. Therefore. Do I treat everyone like a main character or only the ones who die? Yeah At least I don't love a secretary character. Well, you mean like black widow the concept of a main character Yeah, it does doesn't it if you treat. Yeah Also, let's be frank people have a hard enough time writing one main character Let's pump the brakes on that one. All right. Let's walk before we can fly Give them a character beyond their relationship with the hero Hope streams agency other relationships Give them a character beyond their relationship the hero. It's so funny because I just think about how black widow qualifies with all of these I'm just like, oh you mean how she's got her own red at a ledger But simultaneously wants to build a family relationship with the people meaning she has Oh no Give the death time and wait to have an impact on the characters not just one scene or a couple wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong Remember the off-screen and property damage test when handling the emotional way. No those tests are shit regardless tests Disregard the test forget they exist. This is just not particularly valuable advice at all You haven't helped me treat them like a main character. What if they're not? I don't have time for that I have one main character who I'm focusing on. So that's what we got that out the window Give them a character beyond their relationships. It's like, yeah, sure But I could do that and still qualify as fridging Under your definitions. So that's kind of worthless here. Give their time death and wait. No, that's the point It's abrupt It's it's okay. Awesome. So have I now written a bad story because of all of these things Yes, you have she said that's what I mean free. You've done worse than that. You've been morally bad Being morally bad. That's right. Yeah, you've been the moral one this whole time and now it's Yeah, you're with us. You're with us. Get it out both free you take my hand Maybe more than any claim that was ever made in this video that one required the most like Substantiation and we just got none for it. Yeah This is another example of like just it's the certainty that bugs me like these rules are written like commandments And I'm looking at these rules and it's like I've I've studied Uh writing I've never seen these points anywhere in any books Or like and you're not even paying attention to your own terminology Like you say treat every character like the main character. Well, if you did that then there wouldn't be any main characters To be fair, I think she's referring to any character that dies Must be treated like a main character, which is still That is just like I don't know what to do with that It's absurd this is the thing um The capozo being the first one to go in same part ryan. He's probably when we knew the least about Is that a problem? It's like well, he just that's just the nature of the story What happened we got to spend at least time the other guys are gonna get more time because they are alive for a longer amount of time in the story Yeah Is it fridging when like other people who don't even have names are getting killed or is that just irrelevant? Like that's nothing. Well, if they don't matter to the person, that's better. That seems to be the implication Did the cat in civil war when uh wonder like blew up and threw the thing up and it killed those people Were they fridged for the sake of the adventures? Yes Because we didn't know them and it motivated everyone to do things. Oh my god. This these rules. They're just they just They're infectious now. Shall not fridge Wait, does this mean that um Oh I I forget his name in suicide squad. Uh, milton He wasn't fridged or was he not fridged. Well, no, he died quickly and unceremoniously. So he was only Eight oh, so only all right Let's remember they rushed his character development. They gave him they rushed it. They rushed him to get it to You know become a superhero and find his purpose More he just helped them with plot stuff Only one of the suicide squad cared when he died. He was killed unceremoniously And they tried to cheat you by expediting character development right before he died Wait, what do you mean or or after he died? I'm being facetious. I don't believe that they did No, no, because I don't I'd agree with rags. It was after I thought I was just getting confused. Yeah Yeah, so it's so does that mean by oh, sorry, I'm mixing them up not milton. I'm mixing I'm mixing what polka dot man Yeah, rags the guy who got shot So I'm trying to think I'm trying to think if by her criteria Many insert quotation marks is needed. Does he count as being fridged? He does he has to Well, but so nobody did anything as a result of his death in terms of like other than polka dot man complaining about something for a bit, right? Yeah, we got some care. We got some character about him And I guess we also got character on the rest of them because they are of their responses and So we only care about milton in relation to the suicide squad We don't know what his hopes and dreams are and we don't care because they're not relevant All we care about is how our heroes use his death It seems like she would walk up to james gotta be like this whole milton character is all wrong You got to get us to know him and then james goes like no the point is we don't know him Yeah, we didn't even know slip not the man who can climb anything and he had the most impactful death and Possibly all of content. What about all of the people who died on the beach? They all got the the the the man with the spear. He got fridged for harley Yeah, all that we care about is his spear in relation to how it propels her journey forward He got fridged he did Boomerang got through oh and although someone might be able to some of might argue that rick flag got fridged if they were being really stupid It's where you got fridged because all that matters is his what this does to peacemaker Yeah, you can argue it with these flimsy rules for sure Yeah character potential avoiding fridging is a matter of giving the do it's about treating them like they really are the hero of their own Story and writing their death or brutalization as if that's where the story actually ends How much more impact I mean that for them it does that is what it was for black widow Yeah, yeah, that is I mean a character's end is often I mean like that's that's what death is That's the end of you I think what she means in terms of an end of the story is that the death has a relevance in terms of what their journey was As opposed to just like say for example, you're learning all about sword fighting and then you just hit by a train Who'd be like oh okay Meanwhile, if you've learned about sword fighting you defeated some evil sword master person You got really old then you were defeated by uh, you know a new villain who's younger and faster And just like oh there's some I can see the through line there as opposed to suddenly hit by train I assume that's what she means and like I said black widows. That is just 100 in line with everything that's happened to her in her story. So I just don't understand What a fridging be if the story actually acted like an important story With their death and how many riots would there be if an actually important main character was iced as unceremoniously as these fridging victims are Well, that's how many times does that happen? That's happened a lot of times That's a thing important characters can just fucking die A lot of times an unceremonious in is what it can add to the tragedy. I'll just go back to How they do it like it's Like what like you're gonna act like all of this like does she understand that for almost a decade a show called game of thrones Dominated popular culture killing main characters and beloved characters left right and center unceremoniously Like did she just forget that existed like she forgot about black widow Like damn, I didn't even watch the show and I know about it If captain america had gone over that cliff with a token little half piece now There would have been fucking riots in the street. No, um, had he gone to vormia with them too That was his task And he concluded that both of you need to live that no one's sacrificing themselves And then he fucking knocks them out or pushes them away and throws himself off I think fans would be like Right. Well, I mean it's in line with um A lot of what we believe to be true about him, but I don't know that like there would be riots Like in frustration over the death not be like I think people would would say that this was uh An ending that matches his storyline for the most part, but um, I think we would be actually discussing it Maybe would have made more sense for black widow to do it Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely maybe But um cap's already done this he did it in his first movie. It's just that he ended up getting frozen He fridgeed himself. So it's it's just funny that she's like literally people be so sad to see cap Fucking do something like that. It's like we've seen him do something like that, but okay And you know it I guess this is just another trope that you know it better to write Actual characters with agency and actual characters. You see actual characters. Not like black widow. Not like Black widow Come on. Just bring on the ad. Come on. Just no goals instead of people shaped plot devices. It's funny. How often that happens Just say women. Yeah, that's what you mean. Thanks again to world anvil for Yeah Help organize your world building making the whole process easier for writers They can help you organize all the characters That looks on No, maybe there's really Custom wikis you can use for the music still going Built in word processor and the scrivener like it is. Yeah story timelines They also recently added a new tool called chronos that lets you create multiple visual timelines Which also connects to a math view or more than one map that is cool. Yeah changing the story over time You can use it to navigate events wars character lives the spread of a religion pretty much anything that Feels like it's gonna haunt me in my dreams Yeah, how many characters you get a fridge in that war? Yeah, all of them. That's what I want to know How many people die in that war For a cause that impacts history greatly that we'll never know about That software is pretty pimp. I'm gonna look into that. Yeah, it's nifty. So some good came of this video. Yeah, there you go I'm just trying to get us a lot of 30 seconds. Okay. We need a day Yeah, come on if you don't end up subscribing to world anvil, it'll be fridged Oh, no, you're gonna fridge it if you don't if you don't subscribe All that sounds interesting An annual membership you can now get 30% off with the promo code overly sarcastic Oh, she disappeared Oh my goodness gracious. I didn't see I'm looking at world anvil. Uh Do I have to where's the buy button? Create your own world now. Do I have to click here? No, I don't want to create an account. Just I don't want to know. All right I'll just look up world anvil without going through the the link See Yeah, I just want to No, stop saying create your free account. Just tell me how much it costs Yeah, tell me how much the fucking money it costs I've I've scrolled down and seen the same thing many times Create your own world now Pricing there we go pricing. It's it's right there. I found it. Yeah. Yeah, I found it We've got So there's three there's different plans. Yeah, that is that's kind of expensive So if you want the lowest plan it's $50 for 12 months so 50 bucks a year You get a gigabyte of uploads Yes, um You get unlimited articles. I don't know what articles are you get five universes of slash worlds You're gonna have two editors five subscribers and then you have article templates And so but you don't have manuscripts You don't have interactive tables family trees Advanced map features markers journey line marker um advanced access I man This a lot of features Is there no lifetime license for like a one-time payment? No, they're all Subscription everything subscription now. Yeah, this is yearly. Yeah, so this will be the cheapest yearly But though there is a grand master world. That is 160 australian dollars It's 105 american right and it only comes with five gigs of storage I mean, I guess Doesn't google chrome. Yeah, that's the highest gigs Like google drive gives you like 15 gigabytes for nothing Well, let me check how much steam gives you steam storage. Yeah, you got 15 gig for nothing on on a drive Uh How does steam storage? I forget I used to know A steam profile storage Um I don't know I it it's not that important. I just feel like you'd I I guess if it's mostly word documents and stuff and pictures It'll you have to upload a shit ton to get to five gigs, but still Well, I don't know man. Fuck it depends like how many pictures you got like yeah, that's the thing Yeah, and if especially if you're talking about like maps and stuff and you went really good stuff I feel like if you're paying a hundred and five dollars a month You're gonna you should get more than You should yeah, you should get more than five gigs. I mean, let's be it's 2021 storage ain't exactly expensive Um The the yeah the free yeah, if you spend 50 bucks a month you only get one gig of storage Um, funny enough. I was just looking at the top comments And there's one of the ones that I find most interesting is like Well, this in fairness this trope would work if you were writing a comedy and it's just like That alone destroys the whole video Like before you even have anything that we said and it would it works for more than just comedy absolutely, but Another what I spotted is that Red just thought I'd tell you you're currently being covered by every frame of pause and they're ripping this video apart They've just gone through your black widow section It's pretty clear you didn't watch any scene in the mcu involving black widow because the whole the avengers of my family thing Was something established as far back as age of ultron. It's a core motivation in civil war Uh and quite frankly the reason they didn't bring up now after a bench in a lake By the way, which is an incredibly disingenuous as to what happened in that scene Was because they did the snap then Thanos came back to kill them Kind of hard to mourn someone in the middle of a battlefield trying to save the universe and quite frankly trying to say that Nat's death which gives the avengers the soul stone and allows them to undo the snap Has no narrative weight or stake in the plot as a flat-out lie to push the idea that Nat was fridged I'm sorry red, but you're wrong about this entire video and it sounds because I didn't even know her name was Is that like I'm guessing red and blue are their names Red and there's two of them. Yeah, there's uh because there's a blue guy. Oh, I Oh, well I don't know, but maybe it's like a writer narrator Or artist. Maybe he does the little doodles, but I'm like, I think anyone could do that. Um But honestly, um, I think I mean, I I I'm glad that there was an effort made to have like little illustrations that Are about the point that you're doing Um, I think the video is not only bad. It's just really bad advice, especially for people going Yeah, I think I think it's really bad advice. So I think it'll throw you off and I think that's the problem is like I don't like I feel like I don't like the the the sort of like this type of writing advice where it's like We'll see you need to be hyper aware of like what other people are doing Generally, and that that should inform the decisions you're making for the story that you're trying to tell But if you've got an idea That you think is really cool I don't think that you should be allowing that to be warped and twisted based on like General perceptions at the moment of things that you should be doing and shouldn't be doing in terms of narrative structure Or the types of characters you have Um, or like the the kind of themes that you can look for fundamentally Doesn't make sense that your characters are going to behave this way Does it tie into your theme really well? Does it make sense? Does it follow once you get that? That's that's kind of it Like in anything else you can start adding on and thinking about a bit more in terms of enhancing it or pushing it further When you have like 10 people and they're like it should be a 10 second death scene. No three minutes No one minute with many things said no nothing sad, but one minute. It's like all of you kill Yeah, because the actual advice should be well, just think about what you want to achieve with this story Um, think about think about the goals you have In terms of the story you want to tell and the themes you want to hit out and the character payoffs You want and if it follows and if it makes sense and if it feels right to you That that's it. Like that's it. You shouldn't be encumbered with all of this baggage of like, well, you know But generally there are these types of storytelling devices and you know, it's really it's just immoral like to Characters get killed unceremoniously. So you shouldn't be doing that I just I don't know how you could possibly hope to sit down and tell a story that you want to tell If like you're trying because the reality is is that these rules bend back on themselves and there will often be Examples that defy these rules Where it just the rule it's like well, it doesn't apply there, but most of the time it's like that's not helpful That's really not helpful at all. There's got to be something more fundamental that you're trying to appeal to in terms of good and bad right Doesn't uh, let's see sounds it doesn't rags do the same stuff in a white background with maybe better points lull Well, I'm glad you brought it up because I thought through this quite a bit I do have fairly recently Relatively to videos introduced a whiteboard that I can use to display things or make tools and whatnot, but I had the whiteboard Drawn that was a commission to have the whiteboard drawn I Got a font I downloaded a font that looks like someone wrote on a whiteboard Right, I have different versions of the whiteboard and the dog on the chair Of the dog on the chair. I got commissioned for that so that He has different colors for the markers So I have different marker colors and I'll use corresponding text colors so that I can I even have them In my folder. I have them. So if I go to Blue in my folder Then I have my whiteboard with no blue marker on the tray because the markers are on the tray And it also brings up the dog with the blue marker in his hand because if it's in his hand, it won't be on the tray And I can draw on top of it so that it fits with itself Right, it's not like I drew an image and just pasted it onto the whiteboard I just draw on the whiteboard and that is an image and I save it and I could put that on there And also the whiteboard will show up in a different image that I'm getting of the dog at a desk This is going to be really top level shit. It's like a 3d render It looks insanely good and you could see in the corner the edge of the whiteboard So there's a little continuity there and the chair that the dog season coming up to the whiteboard is the same Chair that he uses when it's pulled up out to the at the desk in the right universe Look at there is there is there is lore here So I put a lot of thought into this because I like it when everything just all sort of comes together and it makes sense Go get in this and I was like, ah Are these markers? Yeah, it doesn't make sense if You know the dogs hold in a colored marker and that marker also exists on the whiteboard because the dog in a whiteboard Those are two different images and one will just be on top of the other and they could slide in and move if they need to Those are the details I got like oh, that's that's the thing That's I need this going to a theater need the rags verse raggle this right, yeah Yeah, I'm getting some art of Me pulling it down. So when it when it slides down from the top, I'll be pulling it down And when it goes away or when I need to have it pushed in from the side Um, I have one of him pushing it So that it's not just the board appearing I can have I have the option to have the dog actually making it move It's the little things that add up I want it to look nice um, so that's the difference Yeah, and just um, I saw it mentioned. It's like, well, it was one of the worst videos you've covered. It's like This is one of them. It was pretty bad keep saying that that's the problem We keep saying well because it's I remember I said the cinema sins when we watched last time about train to Busan that was like Bizarre yeah, it was bizarre and straight But this one like the reason why I would probably go as far as saying this one's pretty bad Is because it's just bad advice as well as just horribly worked out and then misrepresenting loads of media Like man, this really does take a lot of bad boxes. I get what you mean It's like it's a it's an amalgamation of a lot of frustrating, uh Things And it yeah, it's very got worse as it went along. It's like yeah, the black widow part really right Yeah, like at some point it wasn't it did it wasn't just like wrong It was a relative. It was a pretty long video and it was Wrong for like the whole video almost every point made was wrong and unhelpful And someone who legitimately followed this advice Their stories would not improve It's almost like it was getting You know like you're getting you're getting lost like you've been given this map and you're like, all right So the village is through this way. Oh wait, maybe turn left make maybe turn maybe but right could work also maybe it's like Okay left and then it's like but but remember like you don't want to walk too fast All right, you you want to get you don't want to get to the town before sunset or maybe you do You know it's up to you really but it would be morally wrong if you got there before sunset It's like But also watch out in the forest because the monsters come out at night So you might want to keep a weapon on you but then again, you know, like it's their land But then again, they will kill you and it's like, okay And then before you know in the middle of the night, there are packing walls to setting on you it's like a a map that's just taking you to a bad place is worse than no map Yeah, because with no map you might end up going to the right place anyway You figure it out for yourself You'd be like, maybe I shouldn't walk off this cliff as opposed to the map that says do it. It's fine. You'll you there's a bridge here It's invisible. You'll be all right I do think this was one of the worst Yeah, I wasn't do the Mary Sue video no more short e-fabs. We're at five hours 20 minutes. Really doesn't seem to be chat So but I'll keep it in mind this Whatever maybe we'll come back to it one day for the Mary Sue one But I'll be honest with you guys like I find Mary Sue discussion. It's fucking boring as hell I I don't really care. They told me more. It reminds me of genre where they talk so much about what qualifies or not Rather than just you get the point right that they they've really badly characterized. That's the point Yeah, or you can't do this in the movie. It's not this genre or you need to do this in your movie because it's this genre It's crap like that. I'm like, you know, maybe we'll check it out at some point. But yeah, um Video bad. We're probably going to move into the super shawms now So was there anything else you guys wanted to talk about in relation to this before we do? No, it was shit I just want to see a bunch of scenes reshot with like fridges in them now We're like uh hawk eye and black widow get to the top of that cliff and there's just the fridge there And they're kind of awkwardly fighting over trying to climb into the fridge hawk eye pulls her out He climbs in she she pulls him out And then he she finally kind of finds her way in and then the the fridge falls And then it does that pov over the cliff shot where you see the fridge at the bottom And it's sad what I thought you were gonna say is I would like to see all of these famous and incredible scenes In you know cinema reshot with her rules quote unquote in mind to see how much shittier they are Sure, that sounds great that too No, um, I guess if there was Because I feel like that when it comes to the writing advice stuff and the takeaway I think the big actual piece of advice is whenever you hear something like that was in that video It's worthwhile to immediately Even if you don't have a specific Question in mind to counter it you could just be like hmm. What if this is wrong and that might like help you sort of uh Take more of an approach of what ways do I think that this rule breaks? because you know if the rule breaks then at that point it's We're dealing with something a little bit different from a rule It's more like a suggestion and a suggestion can have value as well But if it's a suggestion you'd be more willing to accept that it would be contextual Like it depends whether or not this is a suggestion of the work for me But if there's like a rule of like this is just bad, it's always worthwhile to go Mate, what if you're wrong like what if what if it isn't bad? And even if you don't quite know why you think that or even if you don't necessarily think that might be worthwhile to just Bring that question up and then explore it And then maybe you might find that there is an actual underlying truth That you can get at that is super helpful for your writing adventures That would be the thing don't just accept it wholesale read it and then think Let me think about it and then uh, and then you know just go from there and then hopefully you'll arrive at some rules that are working for you right It makes me think of the because we kind of did the same thing here We did with the the extra credits one about um, you can't have evil factions remember that Yeah, we just spend most of it talking about all this great media that is beloved by many that is doing the thing She's talking about but she just like happens to avoid talking about those ones specifically. It's like And that's the thing is if you can bring up examples to the contrary and they work If you can figure out why they work You're probably going to be able to hit at some underlying point that is way more valuable to you Um when it comes to writing like if you can figure out why is it that this works despite falling into this archetype or trope Then maybe you'll be like oh, so really the fundamental thing that I want to achieve here is this Rather than avoid this because other people have done it a lot. This is not helpful right This is a video that You could tell when they were making this They just they never considered when they were writing it out What could someone say in opposition to this or should I double check what I just said? Right when you have to forget game of thrones existed You probably need to think a bit more Right. Yeah, because I guess The problem is it's like you might run into the issue of if you think about counters You might find a really good one and it's like oh But then at that point it should be oh, maybe I don't believe this and I should uh Maybe there's a different thing that I believe when it comes to writing instead of just disregarding it I doubt she'll talk to us at all But I would just be like I genuinely think you're very mistaken And and I to the point where I'd be confident that if we gave her Particularly pieces of information. She would have to clarify and rethink the entire position because it's especially on black widow. That's the big one He's clearly not Um registered a lot of what makes black widow story. His story. Yeah And I um, I you know, it's a little bit It's just like it seems to me you really like to and you really like the mora and you were like no Don't die. Okay. Now. I'm gonna make a video about how it's a trope to kill them It's morally evil to do so Wow, yeah Tell me you care about someone without telling me you care about somebody I guess Yeah, bizarre terrible video Not a fan of the video It was interesting because like informed bad advice juvenile I think it was really good for us because like it just got us to talk about so many things to do with story telling I find interesting that most of the time when we criticize stuff or praise it We don't typically talk about tropes like ever No, I don't like to talk about tropes or genre or things like that because I find that Getting stuck in the weeds because it's all big broad definitions of things that people think they agree on But then when you start talking about it, we find that we disagree on a lot of the Underlying things so yeah Just try and take the story for what it is because like how much you've experienced in terms of media is gonna differ from somebody else and we're trying to Have a conversation. We kind of need to get on the same page Oh, and yeah, because I just saw I don't know if it was an old or new comment It doesn't really matter, but it's more mentioning. Um, I feel like Clint is much poorer characterization than He's much flatter I mean we talk about characters in that film like black widow is the strongest Yeah, I would say so Oh, yeah Yeah, uh john metal you you both you lads want to stay or do you want to maybe uh go do life things I'll hang out for a bit. I don't mind I just got myself another kind of beer. I'm I'm around very well uh All righty then because that seems about that but if I'm talking about yeah a wonderful video um What I took away the good thing is we can it's We can do away with words like kill murder and death and just say fridge for everything Like you hear about that guy who frigged all those people. It does make the conversation quicker We'll say yeah less words to remember just replace them all with fridge double dash. We talked about Wait, this is not I just saw the warning thing That looks like the double dash one. Oh, no, you're playing mario party, aren't you? I'm on six now. Yeah, it's mario party Um, and I don't mind that she's wrong about shit everybody's wrong about something. Nobody has all The answers. I just don't dig the certainty Speaking from this top down place of authority. This is how it needs to be done and there's no kind of investigation into what The the proper way of doing things might be like if she could have framed this all differently with the same points and it wouldn't come off as pretentious, you know, I mean god the The armchair and and uh fireplace. It's just it's done Unironically, I wonder if it is on purpose. I thought it all figured out and here's how it is. Are you supposed to put that with Yeah, overly sarcastic. Is it supposed to be we're not we're not supposed to be taking that seriously I don't think there is any sarcasm. I'm not sure why like that's the name of the account You mentioned that because there aren't many jokes in that video. It's very straight Like it's actually very incredibly straight. There's not many jokes at all Yeah, and she feels frustrated at points in the video that she's had to deal with this because these stories are bullshit sort of thing Yeah, this was totally a serious video. Absolutely So anyway Anyway, all right, uh, the first one says molly. I finished squid game and then it says some things that I can't read out All right, so if you didn't know person who sent that as well as everyone in chat Wednesday We're doing a squid game efap Probably gonna be a long boy So we're gonna talk all about it and hopefully we'll cover everyone's grievances as well as praises I imagine it'll be uh, it'll be a fun and so, yeah, there you go Ringy, what do you think of the contentious political topic that may get you cancelled? I don't I I I am caffeine deficient right now, so Oh, yeah, that thing that particularly. Yeah, I'm that thing Um, I agree with you. It's bad Very bad. I agree Sent me this. He said he fixed it for me Oh, did it Oh, he fixed them nicer. Wait, what he fixed did he make the white match? Well, I mean like all of it essentially. Oh, oh, right because he's repain that looks way nicer. Yeah, it does That's nice. Um, but the main reason being that it's more cohesive as an image That's yeah the the light the fire light. Oh the bookcase goes all the way back The books the 3d he added three shadows Did forget about the red log, uh, the bottom there the the red rid of it Oh, oh, yeah, he did. That's all right. This is a huge improvement I like this a lot better. It looks more cozy That looks yeah, like it's um Seriously though, like I would say to like it tells of the original creator might be worthwhile to just like Yeah, you gotta you gotta you can keep the same headache as well Like I actually like the fire and the logs and the like I like that. I just yeah Make it all nice and cohesive um also high ranks Hello I haven't seen this one But you should also look at the overly sarcastic video on Mary Sue an absolute trash video going as far to say Beowulf is a Mary Sue and Ray isn't I mean, I'm not familiar with Beowulf. So yeah, I don't know if I'm familiar with Beowulf So maybe I'm not sure I've seen the weird animated one That was with Anthony Hopkins. The one by uh, Zennecky Zennecky's So I don't think I've seen that Yeah, I I can't remember enough of it to know if it would qualify, but I don't know the ray isn't part That was interesting. Um, also to show I mean no harm high rags Hello Uh, good luck fringe of fridging is a funny trope Some I don't even know what I think in total of it. I find it frustrating All this told me is that it's all about execution like she gives a fucking shit That's good. It's good. We'll kiss if it's a trope cliché whatever Well, yeah, because if someone if I said like never gloompa character and you're like, what does that mean? It's like it's when you kill them in an environment with um, you know Fucking the main villain hit them with something when they shouldn't have been able to It's like that just sounds like something else. Why are you calling that gloom? Why why doesn't need a name? It's like I don't don't gleam. It's like what's gleam So it's when you establish one thing and then contradict it later on and it doesn't make sense. It's like, oh, so Yeah, it's gleaming don't gleam Why do you keep saying that gleaming? Yeah, you definitely don't want to uh Gibby did it which is when you do a handstand in a triangular room We don't want to do that. That's a bad thing That is a bad thing now. I'm thinking about like like if you have tropes in video games, right? Not not the uh, not the the video series like just actual things that are just recurring elements in games Yeah, it's like I think every time you try and qualify one of those You'd be able to qualify it without relying on um Like the fact that it's done by other things It would always be some sort of mechanical issue in the game or some problem that doesn't line up with the other mechanics I don't know. Just can we I I guess the focus on them being tropes feels like a waste of time Like what we're actually complaining about is that it's just a bad thing in this particular story I find it beyond frustrating if you spend so much time identifying it telling people not to do it and then you go But sometimes it's okay. It's like, oh my god So there are some other things I feel do you ever feel like that's sort of almost basic just deduction stuff that we need to work on there like You'll understand that if you say but sometimes it's okay then what you're talking There are something else that is the problem then It's not what you've just talked about. It's something else unless it's wasted time general advice like don't Fucking go to the edge of a cliff because you might fall like well. Yeah. Yeah Yeah I guess you can do it with store because again like I think it's just framing it as advice like hey, buddy You've never written a story before maybe just do three acts. Okay You can start messing around with other stuff later on but like for the first time around Maybe just focus on making sure that like there is a beginning middle and end Just do the basics or like hey, I know like you've only written a couple of stories It might be worthwhile to just like Have a main character who goes on an arc and it's just the standard He he thought he wanted this but really he wanted this nice basic Simple story and then it's like but but again, it's like there's a difference between that saying so never Never deviate from the standard like the hero. I think he wants this and then he actually wants something else That is fundamentally you have to do that um Yeah, I don't I don't know. It's too restrictive. It's just too restrictive. I think Less rules, please Um, yeah boy here from the start hoping to edge for at least nine hours Oh, we're at five and a half. So, uh, good luck Um, I mean no harm. I submit to you a very peaceful high rags and too fair to prove my harmless I submit a high fringy. So Oh, hi That's like super peace at that point That is very Um Can you say what but your role my real friends this meme doesn't make sense. Okay, um We do want everyone to say that or just me I guess I'll do it and then that should hopefully be enough What but you're all my real friends this meme doesn't make sense There you go Also high rags. Well, maybe it's like the inflection like like, uh What but you're all my real friends this meme doesn't make sense There you go another like the meme it One of them is your real friend, but you're like no all of them are my real friends So this meme doesn't make sense because of it. Hmm Bringing in molly watch foughtman for efat movies, please. I assume they mean fat man Thought man Mel Gibson one, right? Is that to mean pig or is that a different thing? No, mel Gibson santa claus in fat man. Oh, right, right, right? Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm mixing them up completely. Um, yeah, uh, it's a potential christmas movie. I'm not, uh For efat, I'm not sure if we'll do it. We'll uh, we'll figure it out Um from us train to boost on I thought the main guy at the start of the movie was being told to sell off the bio company's stocks The big wigs know what's coming and want to get out loved it watched it last night because of you. Um I specifically I can't remember exactly what was uh sold or sorted I I think he was I think that was the idea. He could see what was coming. So he wanted to sell Right because they're the price was about to tank I Wanted to get rid of them and get their values. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what was happening. Yeah, I couldn't remember the specifics They're like what stocks if not all And it was just the ones related to that Um, if ever you met someone who's never watched a movie before which movie would you recommend them first also? Who's never seen a movie before yeah, so I feel like we want to do fundamental something super fundamental Probably non fantasy or sci-fi probably um, I Serbian film light hearted and Maybe a light heart Yeah, like a like a disney one of those disney classic movies, you know, that's really approachable Like maybe snow white the seven dwarves or something lion king. That could be a good Maybe like a lion king. Yeah. No people. Let's do let's do people actually like, um, really? Um I feel if they've never seen a movie before I feel like it's a good way to introduce them to how because it'll be a fun Journey right to start giving them like I want a movie with talking animals and they're like, what? You know what someone said 12 angry men. That's a good choice. I like that one. Yeah, good movie. Yeah And you know, if you want any other information on why it's such a great movie 12 angry men video on my channel. Go check it out made a video on that I did It's the best example of blocking I can think of in a film. Well in terms of like cinematography and stuff Yeah, that's what blocking. Yeah. No, it's it's cinematography Right as if the lost art could be fun as like an adventure, you know, this is what an adventure movie is Yeah, I don't know about a human centipede. I'm gonna vote no on that one. I think Yeah An animated disney sort of classic or maybe one of the pics are something that's super approachable from all different kinds of people it's very kind of vibrant and Like you they do they could understand all the messages. It's not super complex. I guess Something like that. I think that would be a really good first movie for someone. Yeah, I don't know who If they've never seen a movie ever Like you'd want to show them like a good movie that's like the movieist movie ever like good will hunting or something like that That movie is the movieist movie And then you'd be like right time to expand your brain. I'm gonna go Also high rags Hello Um sup john high rags and hello all my n-words. Hello. Hi started Um, hello moorla fringy metal and rags Hello. Hello. Have you guys seen dune yet? Any non-spoiler thoughts? Not yet. I'm planning to see that with my dad. He had a he had a minor surgery on his foot So he's hanging out at the house for a while until he could start walking around again So that is that once he's up and about that is going to be our return to theater movie Now that those are kind of back in the swing of things and the normal So we're going to go see dune of the theater once we can Looking forward to it. It should be uh should be nifty. I kind of want to go see it Um, I've seen it and I feel like I'll wait for a little bit before saying anything about it In fact, you'll probably hear me say stuff about it on real bbc for e-fab I know that fringy metal and rags are intending to see it. So I'd rather not say anything um, yeah I'll I'll talk to people have seen it. Yeah V shall see Also just tell me how it ends Look on my twitter you can see what I said about the ending Um Also, would it be better to have AI or human supercomputers? What would it be a human super computer? Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure human is capable of it, but if you had a human who also had the thought power of a supercomputer versus an AI I don't know it depends on the AI and depends on the human. That's the thing I feel like both could go either way I do kind of wonder if you had a human with the potential of like a huge amazing supercomputer like well beyond what it is It's like does that Are they human at that point or they like I wonder if they'd alter everything about them, you know Yeah, if something is truly an AI in the sense that it's indistinguishable from a person Uh, or a human mind, but you give both a human and an AI the same Like thought power. I don't know if there's really a meaningful distinction between the two at that point Um What is Michael Bay's best objectively best movie? If I could I don't even know I'd have to look at the list I'm sure he's made some bangers. I think The rock is a dope movie Michael Bay movies Is it his movie though? Or is he just a producer? Yeah He directed it didn't write it. I can never remember if he did Yeah, no, you're right. He did yet because there's a lot of uh visuals in that film in a very Michael way That's my favorite of his that's probably my favorite of his. Yeah, I wouldn't I don't know if anything's gonna be done the wrong Yeah, that's a good one Not welcome to the wrongers Uh age of extinction No, I thought about it It's a close one, but I think I go with the rock. Have you guys seen the rock? I know I have not no That's that's what we eat on movies potential. I'd say hell. Yeah It's good stuff. Yeah He I press a robot out of hell too Picture show that was a music video That was a good one. Actually, I didn't Hey fringled, I didn't mean to get you so riled up with a smash question I didn't know that argument was so common also thoughts on saura and high rags Hello I wasn't actually that riled up. That was uh, like I just find it Annoying but as for saura, that's an I find this is interesting when people talk about characters who they want in smash because you know I don't care about kingdom hearts. I don't care, but um Yeah, that feels like a fair choice In terms of a character to include in smash brothers, you know, it's like a well-known character from a popular franchise that to some extent has been relevant on nintendo platforms Um, that feels like a fair choice So I would the s games, right? I think there were. Yeah, like um dream drop distance or something. I remember hearing that Yeah, like it it feels like a fair choice So I can look at that and be well, it's not a character that I personally would have wanted but That's that's cool. I mean, I feel like it's the same for minecraft minecraft feels like a perfectly In fact, minecraft is a more than apt. That's like a really great idea to have a minecraft character in smash Um, conversely bileth that that's I don't think that's a good choice This character from this game that came out when you already have like nine characters from this franchise. No Like no, that's taken up slots that could have been taken up by a rep for a whole lot of franchise Like yeah, somebody said leon kennedy. It's like that feels like a much better choice than bileth Especially considering that like resin evil 4 came out on gamecube originally get a yeah that was very in there Because we don't we don't persona 5 like that character. I'm pretty sure was only in play session But that's fine if we're gonna do that at that point. Yeah, get don't say in there get crash or spyro Just get whoever put him in there. Yeah, but I mean they got a good relationship with microsoft by the sounds Cheap in there john halo. Yeah I don't know how people tolerate I don't know how people tolerate the online multiplayer with that input lag I keep I keep like on our smash. I'm like, yeah, I own smash I never fucking play this this game. I don't know why and then I played it recently in the the input lag is so dreadful Like I don't know how this is I mean, I guess most people just do the couch. Oh, that's why he has spoiled you or Uh, I'm assuming other console games have better Input delay. The lag is pretty bad. Smash has always been Shit online like every single one of them. Oh, yeah The the wee one was even brawl was even worse. Yeah brawl was a disaster on some online Yeah, because it used like the frame sync methods. Everything was choppy as fuck every single match Again from your satirized bias towards fire emblem. Yeah, well, sure. Maybe that's an explanation, but it's not an excuse. It's um I mean like Because I know that there's a bit of a curbie bias But like that that makes way more sense to me to have a curbie bias like curbie is a long running nintendo franchise I mean look at that curbie only has three characters And it's like curbie's always super important like in terms of these games and stuff But um, I'm totally fine with that I mean really if anything there should be a mario bias like they're ought to be a mario bias if there is one but Yeah, ideally no bias though. That'd be nice Yeah Um, yeah, how much are the dlc characters? Do we have like a pack or something? Or they all individual pricey they're 110 coins each How much microsoft points? or Fringy fire room goes all the way back to the nes. Okay, so i'm just go let me look up sales figures for these franchises I'm getting tired of these points like I i'm pretty sure that fire emblem has not sold as well as Hold on Let's look up the best selling games on nintendo switch just to put things into perspective, you know Just how popular these franchises really are um nintendo switch Give me a minute here Gold post moved Sorry, well, I i'm pretty sure that in the last stream if you remember my point one of the big things is how popular they are Like I think that that is a relevant factor All right Best selling game on nintendo switch is mario kart 8 deluxe 37 million copies The next one is animal crossing at 33 million copies. So animal crossing. I would say deserves more than two characters You know what legend is out of breath of super smash bros ultimate 24 million copies Breath of the wild 23 million copies. You know what zelda could stand to have another character. I think pokemon sword and shield 21 million copies man Look at these games splatoon 2 12.45. I am jumping a bit now 12.45 million copies. God damn. Where's fire emblem? Hmm, hold on. Where is it? Where is fire emblem the the best selling one in the series 2.87 million? Man, you know what three million. That's like a tenth of 37 million Everyone's asking how popular is it in japan I don't this is worldwide sales. Oh there you go I don't I don't mean so the number is going to be lower If you have to go yeah, the number will be lower Dude, like i'm pretty sure As you just look through this list It's like man if it was like you ring for the adventure you probably did a rep for ring for the adventure Why the hate for fire emblem? I don't hate fire emblem. I think it's a cool game But there are like 10 fire emblem characters in ultimate There's like as many fire emblem characters as there are mario characters and that is bullshit That is absolute bullshit when we're talking about the legacy of these franchises Like that there's no arguing around that one. Kill myself I Fridge myself no Why they're three metric characters in smash it was just about sales figures. Okay, so like three versus 10 And I didn't say it was just about that either when we're talking about diversity of characters Samus and ridley are nothing alike But like I don't know if you can sit there and be like, you know what I can moth like they're very different And they're like the most different if you compare them in terms of one being heavy attacks and one being light attacks You're making it into it. I said it was one factor Samus and zero suit samus are totally different too. That's right Oy moly cinemas in civil war video too spoopy for you Um, we could cover that someday I guess No, I mean since this is you know, don't take too much in a row is what they say, right? Be careful It's no dody on cinema sense Um, are you massive is planning to play the next game from super massive games house of ashes this halloween? Coming to you in three or four days. Yes Mm-hmm I took a day off of that That is the way to spend your life. Yeah Yeah, that's great Um Go be so shit It'll be great. What are you talking about? Oh God bows his mini game. Oh I agree with your criticism of atla, but still love it So I was wondering if there's anything you remember from the show that they did really well high raggle daggle So in front of say hi back Um, yeah, that's me. Hi Oh raggle daggle Oh, okay Okay, fine. Just he's having to pee or something. It's fine. Um, yeah, iro. I think I would argue that you've done really well There's um, like a character that is a part of the sort of evil empire in a way, but um, doesn't believe in their goals But at the same time his whole family are Into it And so it's only uh, he's like building a force in the background to try and undermine it eventually but also try to get his family to Come with him sort of thing. I think there's there's lots of good stuff there There's too many characters that use fists in that game with free stupid logic of smash inclusion Okay, I feel like that's just bad faith right there. They're just like oh specifically that they have swords I guess do we all right? Let's lay it out from the beginning So I think that the decisions that you make in terms of adding characters into smash brothers should be determined by a variety of factors Including but not limited to how popular is the franchise? What is the significance in terms of its legacy to nintendo? Um also also um like how diverse is uh the roster in terms of Characters that are very different in terms of how big they are how fast they move. What are their primary weapons that they have? um You have a ton of these factors By that metric I do not think that there should be 10 fire emblem characters who fight with swords That's basically it. That's the take seems like overkill. Yeah There's like 10 characters There's representation like every single game. Yeah, but meanwhile Waluigi who would be very different. I would imagine from every other mario character that they've added Man feels like a really great choice that we don't have in this game I never knew about like mm-hmm When I played her plays I never knew about ice climbers or nest or um Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like these these are some really cool choices in terms of pulling characters pit is another one Yeah, I never knew about it a lot of these little mac is kind of reaching back a bit too. Um, and also, uh Like the the duck hunt characters It's like this is kind of fun picking characters who had a history With nintendo and it feels like there have to be more than that who haven't gotten a chance But bilith gets one I Damn the spider passes are pricey They are pricey. Yeah 25 So this camp in japanese culture dude if they even got like eight characters What I don't is this actually an argument that like fire emblems more popular in japan Therefore, that's the reason why they're in there because like I don't know if that's an that's an exponent That's an explanation. That's not really a justification And plus like I don't even have a problem with that because I'm pretty sure dragon quest. That's not Like dragon quest is more popular in japan Well, that's the thing, right? It's not super popular here, but really popular in japan and that guy that uh Franchise got a character added in that's cool But like that's because he's from a different franchise like you're giving other characters from other franchises a chance to be in it Because that's a reality of it when one character gets a slot. That's somebody who doesn't get to be part of the game Somebody who people would like it would be cool to have I think it would be cooler to have like some indie because you got holonite skins You should put like a holonite. No, there is a holonite skin But you could put holonite in the game or shovel night that'd be really cool That'd be really cool if you could add those guys in there There's the holonite spirits like those supporting I think they're off. I think this is pretty sure. I'd love one earlier today I'm playing smash at the moment actually Yeah, I I guess the problem is like I don't know um That I I'm not sure why someone would be like, okay So presented the option between the ninth fire emblem character and somebody who is from a different franchise entirely I don't know why you would say yeah ninth fire emblem character Let's add them in because frankly I'd be cool with not adding any more Mario characters either But like I would soon add another Mario character than I would have a fire emblem character Yeah because they're there's just way more diversity in terms of like the roster of Mario characters in terms of size how fast they move what weapons they use All right, but yeah, I'm happy to stop talking I'm actually not that invested Clearly not that invested. Yeah. No, I don't I don't I don't I don't actually All right I wish I could stay and watch but I have to go to work. I'll definitely check out soon though. Also higher eggs Hi Hope you have fun when you finally go through this um presumably nine hour stream That's that's where I assume we'll get to but who knows um Oh boy an edap when I'm operating a million dollar printing press. Let's go Oh, all right careful Yeah million million dollar printing press sounds interesting Um, if y'all think the reddit isms is bad, you should check out the discord more often Mainly trash chat the mods themselves argue objectivity doesn't exist. No, I know that's fine Trust me. Everyone in the discord is allowed to believe whatever they want about objectivity. It's objectivity seems to the the Um the discord the reddit the the twitter the dreaded twitter still a collection of people that really like storytelling and um What I've gathered is what is true effaps value isn't in uh agreeing on any particular framework It's that yeah people should be behaving in in line with who they are in their stories Things should make sense You don't have to be compelled that that is the thing that should happen You just have to want that to be the case yourself as long as you have that value yourself Then everything we do here is useful to you um So yeah, it's totally fine I think it's not fine. Mel doesn't think it's going to beat up all the mods Yeah beat it up Y'all should check out inscription an incredibly unique creepy card puzzle game Hmm at least try out the demo on steam also high rags and everyone else. I guess Hello, hello Never heard of it, but sounds interesting Uh EFAP increases game luck in destiny 2 can verify I don't understand Say that one more time. It's a grindy game Destiny 2 We have a super chat that probably got some good drops while farming some weapons If everyone's different no one is I'm not sure what that's referencing in terms of the video All individuals I'm not What are the greatest quotes ever Uh, the snap is all his steve's fault because at the end of the day, you should have just sacrificed vision the marvel's director thoughts Um, she did say that She's not wrong that Like that but that was a choice that he made that's that's the thing and it's the choice I understand might make it Talk about it consequentially that that is what happened as a result But it is in line with steve's beliefs and it's not something I condemn like in a moral sense rather I'd just be like it's unfortunate That he couldn't bring himself to do that And I wonder if he would make the same decision if he could do it again I did wonder I think he would probably um I mean is a consequentialist man, you know like as I'm sure but you know at the point of everybody initially dying if you were like Steve this can all be undone if vision dies and he's already dead so You know you'd have to assume that you probably commit Oh, yeah But um, yeah to sort of clarify though. It's not like it's all steve's fault There's a lot of things that had to happen to make it all happen, right? But Um, I don't know that the context of exactly what she would have said. I'm just saying that Yeah, it's Steve's decision to do that Was very important and it would have been fucking hard as hell to be like let's kill him We got to And I don't know that it would have made sense for steve to say let's kill him Oh Yeah, sorry vision you gotta go As you get suppliers out of the you know, it's like it's on the foot of a lot of characters like gamora couldn't sustain watching Nebula get tortured Loki couldn't allow Thor to keep getting tortured you know A lot of people give up the stones for different reasons, uh Doctor strange Um, oh, I actually like osp. Sometimes they do have bad takes though. I haven't seen this video though Well, well, it wasn't a great one Now you have now you have an excruciating detail um So is superman, but evil a trope or cliche? Iraq's Hello um Maybe it depends on how the origin begins, right? How do you get an evil superman? um Then again, I I'm not sure is it a trope Maybe because it applies like are we talking specifically Superman fighting an evil version of himself or are we talking about the idea that a superhero or a protagonist Might often have to face off against someone who's just like they're moral inverse Um, I'm assuming it just refers to doing superman, but evil Yeah, and there's a difference between evil superman and superman being the opposition like the dark knight returns Yeah, yeah Yeah, I don't know I I guess I guess as it's currently been presented I'll say trope because it's sort of broad enough and you could do different things with it But I'm not particularly certain. I don't know really Yeah, I'm I'm not sure what I would Categorize it as but it is like if someone was to make a brand new superman They're like this time we're gonna make it so that he doesn't end up being so wholesome and uh all about the american way We all be like, uh-huh He's gonna be more nihilistic or Disenfranchised with the hero worker. It's just like it's fine. I'd give it a chance could be amazing, but like the After the snider stuff, it's kind of like all right. Can we Want a good guy just want a great superman. I want a good superman He's just a super dare. I say a super hero No, that's cringe. No, stop stop right there Hola, bonjour, howdy mola, fringy metal and guest. Hello. Hola, kata Hi It is an embarrassment of riches this weekend wednesday friday and now again today. Woohoo You Well, there's there's even more on the way in terms of compact for e-fap stuff. So prep your bum bum Grab the bums always is um Watching grace randall's dune review so racist Yeah, she's got some racist tendencies. She says some weird shit Oh, that is okay. This is an interesting little minigame They like reveal to you what is in the box a further back from when it actually is then you got to keep it in mind It's kind of neat Um Is it though? Ah, shite. I forgot to say higher rags Oh, hey Um, don't forget the dead space three playthrough november 2nd what Dead space dead space three playthrough like have we That's a potential for an e-fap Well, yeah, it always has been but I don't remember it. Yeah, I was gonna say when did we make a fucking schedule for that? Yeah, I don't like me super chat. I can't have that Yeah Um Rags look up stan lee's batman Stan lee's batman. Let's see Oh, it's it's like a man bat person he Oh, let me see um This is I'll show you a picture Show you a couple pictures actually All right, come down Wait, that's batman from stan lee I guess that's when he Okay, um Yeah, I don't know Maybe that's closer to what you were uh, say about committing with a costume version Yeah, I'm think yeah, I'm thinking so I guess that was stan lee's version of batman That's lcr Definitely, uh, definitely a batman. Hmm Um, I'm gay and I'm not offended by it eating gay Well, how about that? You can watch you're wrong the evil clown munch munch munch on a on a gay gay and then it's apparently fine. Okay I think it's a really bad trope And you're offended that a clown was made to eat a gay person Yeah, like as a clown you're like they should only eat married people who are straight Yeah, something like that like in the clown lore different people just taste different So I assumed they would but I don't know if being gay would have any influence on that, you know The next one is do the gays taste different from the dog gays? It's like Maybe Um I 100 support barry de gaze. I think I mean barry de gaze but uh I guess that man if your character is dying for very meaningful reasons. I don't fucking care if they're gay or not Fridging let's use the I refuse Do you think that world building could be more important than the plot? You can have a story with basically no plot, but the world will have a large part in what characters believe in how they act So what they act is What I was gonna. Yeah, I I think that um I mean, I don't I don't know what a story is without a plot because even if even if the story is Hi, jim. Hi bill. I'm going home by the plot is jim goes home. Like that's the yeah You have to have a plot your world building can be like a result of the well Well, there's always a world building to a certain extent. Well, I yeah, yeah That's more important. I think I think that we're talking about things in general like if the four pillars are character plot world and theme like World building is lost. Um, I think that I think the character plot and theme are all more important um But I think it's just that um world building Can only ever be relevant through plot and character Um, and it's more emergent. I feel I think it is well. Yeah I mean think about it this way ncis that's set in the modern world. It has world building. It's just not yeah Like the world building is this is the modern world and there is ncis Which is an agency of the government and they like invest in crime. Yeah There can exist a plot that just doesn't have a theme really at all But there has to be world building because all of these events take place within like space Like there there has to be some level of world building uh It is but the plot is deaf plot is king when it comes to the those three Um, I would say a story is a meaningful sequence of events So there's a couple of ingredients there plot being one of them You need a sequence of events to have a story whether it means something is it is another thing Trying to envision this stuff happening But it doesn't really go anywhere trying to envision this story is like is it Like a lot of us are just sitting in a room watching tv and like the world's events are sort of happening You know and we're just sort of like world But then even that the synopsis of the plot would be four friends, you know five friends Whatever they stay in their little blah blah house watching the world's unfold and You know that that that would just be that would be the plot And then presumably there's going to be some kind of meaningful ending to that like Um makes you think about a tank level field lane where It's like they're all in that place, but the it's the world's changing around them that makes them The decide to do certain things within the place they're in without actually going outside Right, yeah, I guess But again, it's like it's possible to not have plot because that means you You can't really have characters that don't have any interests or goals which generates plots Thoughts on the scream franchise I remember like in the first two and that's about it I think it's the same for me They would need little movies to try and shake up Um the horror genre by being aware of The fact that some of the characters are kind of aware that they're kind of in this horror story And they they talk about it as real people probably would Okay, like this Um It just came in a time where slashers were just so fucking boring and dead that scream is like What would people do if they were enough slash a movie? But like kind of recognized it in the same way that we would if you know We were all in some kind of fucking Situation we couldn't necessarily get out of but we know there's some guy running around killing people with a knife. We'd be like Interesting, um, but yeah, I remember like in the first two I'd have to re-watch him I guess Will the Karen if that movies come out next Halloween or next black history month All we Halloween Karen for the black history month Uh Overly sarcastic productions doesn't tell people to avoid tropes But talks about how they are executed both well and poorly a little late. So not sure if you knew I'm afraid that she's outdated information. She is explicit, but it is inherently bad broken and immoral This is inherently bad and immoral. Yeah Maybe she doesn't normally tell people to avoid tropes, but this time she did Yeah, who knows Maybe just waiting for the time to pull that card. Who knows Who knows I did see some people saying this this video was unusual. Um, so maybe it is just an unusual one Maybe yeah, right. That was just a bad first impression than in that case, I guess Uh The problem with trying to avoid tropes that a lot of people don't realize is they are inevitably in storytelling and subverting tropes as a trope, too I can't become a chore. It is frustrating. I guess Okay It's thinking frustrates me to categorize it this way if someone said like I don't fucking want to see a story where Oh boy grows up in some farm and eventually becomes strong and heroic and saves the princess from the evil warlock That's got her in a castle. That's boring. I'd be like we can still make that really good. What the hell Yep, nope No, I've seen it before it's like maybe you haven't maybe I'm gonna bring in a character with a Fish on his head. You haven't seen that before Damn all fish had Larry Mm-hmm. What if the hero dies? Whoa, that's great That's what pissed me off about film school surrounded by people who are like They want to reinvent filmmaking because they're all so ambitious, right? And it's all these prod Pitching all these extreme ideas like the protagonist getting killed I feel like you outgrow that phase at some stage, you know Like you have that edgy phase where you want to do all this crazy shit and then you're like, actually this is retarded Yeah right Have you seen any videos by film courage? I don't recognize the name so presumably not Uh Resident Evil dead aim had a man named Morpheus who became a tyrant But the tyrant had more x and a lot less y when it came to chromosomes I haven't was was resident evil dead aim I don't get is that a one of the animated movies? Maybe. Oh, maybe yeah It was like a on rail shooter for I can't remember which one it was for maybe I was thinking a survivor. That's playstation 2. I think that's playstation one Is playstation one, right? Yeah, I had that game as a when I was younger and I played it all the way through It was very short and it's pretty shit, but I love Yeah The we had one or two on rail resident evil games as well. We had a lot of on rail games. Yeah Survivors a weird one looks like an arcade shooter. You could use a light gun with but you can't Fun fact major force can't die So green lantern cut his head off and held it into space So the man would suffer the void of space forever. Jesus. Oh, wow. That's uh, that's dark That's terrible That's rough Uh reminder that the great linkara referred to black widow sacrifice an endgame as a woman in refrigerator moment fucking Did any people watch the movies? No, but they just it they just remember it as marvel sludge. They don't actually remember What happened? It's just oh, yeah, those were just those marvel sludgy movies that I saw that one time I see this um The awful thing of seeing like maybe a black person in a role and being like, oh no Super diversity. I see this is the reverse. We're like a woman died. Oh, no fridging What no classic fridging It was the great linkara that said it though Uh, hello from ketchikan alaska hello Hi Women in fridges. It's a hackneyed criticism made up by gale. Simone to get a job in comics and used by people that never read comics With all the examples she gave I can believe it's used by people who aren't familiar with source material. I can believe that now Yes Uh, watch the last duel. It's not woke but great. Hi. I don't What did that caught away? Uh, I've heard of it. I don't know. Uh, that's um ridley scott, right? Yeah, more like Sridley Yeah, jill and priss are in fortnite. I just saw that on twitter Hey guys, if you haven't uh, if you haven't played it yet god of war is on sale. So now's the time to pick it up Oh Oh, man down from 49 99 to 49 99 It's on sale. Yeah, that's a Super war is that steam or the epic game? So it's not out on steam yet. I don't think Oh, it's got a page on steam. I didn't know if it's on sale. Yeah No, no, it doesn't even have a price attached what I think What is that store? I don't know. I just saw it So I'm guessing it's playstation store of some sorts On a scale from mootl to just felled trees alone in the rain How masculine are you feeling today? Because the only thing I didn't do to earn my man card is colonize some lands and kill the natives Oh my How come metal gets singled out as the person who's the zero Spectrum for virility. How'd that happen? I don't know. I feel like it was obvious. That seems you think it would Like you think they picked me So, um Yeah, we were totally manly today. We took down a waman's video That's uh, we did And we could get any more trouble for this one because she's more popular than um, the one I've already forgotten about the The black widow one Oh my goodness, maybe I don't know. I just feel like I'm just numb to that now I'm just like, uh, just like argue with us Like listen to the things we said, please we made ideas. We thought about it We gave us genuine thought, please And it comes from a place of liking the stuff that you were saying a shit. Okay, not just hating you or anything Metal I'm dutch and I want my bicycle back. I You took some of the bicycle Again, I I I have my own one. I don't need your shitty bicycle I I think you guys are really gonna like this. So zigzor he made this a few days ago. He said Wait, I'll get it on screen Oh my god, that's huge Damn fringy, you're looking good, man. He's looking jacked, bro If I got a little antenna You do you have an antenna. I like this. I like this like almost robotic take on you What does that mean sausage and schnitzel man Ah Dog-sized dog a new shirt normal sized german man Oxides not good j normal size german man. German man. Human hybrid giga chat Australian emu human hybrid giga chat I like the idea that once the mass comes off, there's just a green beat That's really funny But I'm pretty sure the official law is that that it is just a mask as the writer. I'm pretty sure the official The problem is that I'm I'm currently like almost building up the fringy myth. Oh, so it's getting very confused already Like it's already started Yeah, your belt buckle says no No, it does it does say that. Yeah This is great. I'm saving this one It's a little folder like everyone has a something something size and j has just as j Five hour dr. Who video Oh, yeah, because we're sized in what it is meters Yeah, for a second there. I thought it was going to be like in video length or something. Oh wait I'm over two meters tall. Jeez. Nice. I am so I'm So a meter is what like about 2.2 feet, right? I'm pretty sure a meter is three feet or something like that 3.3 meter 3.3 feet. Yeah, okay, so yeah, that's uh Yeah, you're you're a biggin Yeah Um, was barba gordon fridged for jim gordon iraq's well that can Do come up Yeah, I I don't know. I need to read it. I guess and then be much more clear on exactly what we would classify as being fridged The tropes slash cliche argument is a false dichotomy. There are cliche tropes and there are tropes that are frankly unavoidable But tropes are not bad I mean we pretty much acquire that point. I don't really have an issue with something having been a trope or is it Yeah, I'm just like, okay Um When you finish with fridging you should look up the pandora's box video It's like a red stumbled on the legend and got super butt hit over it. Hi rags Hello Well, like the legend that it's like the curiosity of man or you know, just like needing to Why what is the original story of pandora's box? Well, it's that um pandora opened the box And released all the evils into the world. I know that maybe she has an issue with the fact It was a woman who did it much like how it was a well much like how it was a woman who Took a who was tricked by the serpent in the garden of Eden. So I don't I don't know. I women are up to I'm telling you man. Oh, okay. So the myth is That her curiosity led her to open a container left in the care of her husband Thus releasing physical and emotional curses upon mankind Which isn't fair. I feel if you're just like, oh, I wonder what's in that box. Oh, no, I've created No, I know. That's no fucking looking boxes. That's what you've learned That's why you don't open pandora's fridge exactly Pandora's fridge Lots of bodies in there Pandora's Lots of skeletons in that fridge. Yeah If you tried to live your writing career avoiding any and all tropes ever made ever Could you even write and finish a story at all seems impossible Um with how many tropes there are yeah, you're not avoiding them all You are not avoiding them. You're just not there's too many and again They are descriptive of things that arise from stories. They're just there's just gonna. Yeah, I don't think it's possible Maybe but I mean You'd also be intentionally avoiding a lot of the good ones. So One of the issues with this trope is it starts from the lens of the gender politics of gale samoon She can't help but see everything as sexism Well, it is weird because we noticed straight away that it's not about the person. It's about women and it's like Oh, that's strange Because uh the ruling would obviously apply to women who have a husband who dies in order to fucking motivate them or whatever It's like well Doesn't happen as often. You're like, yeah, but that's not it's like okay, but that's not how we define. Yeah, that's not how it works Um, are you gonna check out osp's video on the merry suit? Maybe one day. No, I don't I don't want to I don't want to But maybe we will Hey, y'all, are you ready for the sex scene in marvel's eternals? I know I'm ready to shell out more money to corporate overlords consume product. Do you have a sex scene in it? Do they oh boy, how do we know that hasn't has only been shown to the press or something? Somebody like, I don't think something on twitter. I don't know. Oh, maybe yeah Yeah Was joel fridged for ellie or was the zebra saviour fridged for abbey? Wow, they were the zebra was definitely a fridged. So like if we're using this definition What would have zebra saviour be the dad? She this yeah, yeah So this is the thing if you were in the call right now and I as she knew Last was too well and to be honest with you. She probably likes last was too because it's so subversive, but If I said was joel fridge for her She'd probably say something like well No, because they had an entirely meaningful relationship that separates him as a character But also their relationship together. I'd be like, oh like black widow and she'd be like no I'd be like no like black though. Yeah I must say I am a little bit confused um Was joel. Oh wait. Yeah that woman's pot plant was fridged Yeah, man Just knocked right out just to motivate that woman to Scream and then hit hush in the face. Yeah, so hard that his face fell off The writers probably forgot that she didn't know that that was a breath that was I I was Quite happy when that happened. It's like yes, we're not gonna have to deal with the evil bruce wayne I couldn't deal with that I thought we're gonna get a whole season of that. No, it's not ready for that Yeah, because that was the big like cliffhanger stinger of the end of season one and then season two first episode No, it's done. They just get rid of him. Yeah, because I guess there's no relation to kate, right? So it's not that significant Mm-hmm Sewing this is she sewing them Okay, yeah, sorry ruby rose ruby rose is she sewing them? I don't know someone brought that I don't know I don't know if that's is that the development I guess you could just google news the newest thing. I am Well, everything's from two days ago. So I guess nothing's really developed since Hmm Oh, by the what that would be really cool if if the show is really well written the idea that an imposter bruce wayne Suspects that he's batman and is constantly trying to find the bat cave Yeah, while while trying to play it cool and everything in front of everybody, you know Uh, that that could be that could be comedic. It's funny almost He's frustrated. He can't find the bat cave and he has the full run of the place because it's just hidden Um, but that I think that would be really uh, that could be really good former batwoman employees are responding to ruby roses allegations Well, I yeah, there was that one where the woman said that she was like basically really mean to the monstret and often late That was that was a claim. Which is amusing. Yeah, just do grace scott. Definitely. Well, do grace scott said Yeah, and he said I absolutely and completely refute the defamatory and damaging claim. I could hear it in his voice Made uh against me by ruby rose. They are entirely made up and never happened as warner bros television has stated They decided not to exercise the option to engage ruby for season two based on multiple complaints about her workplace behavior We'll just have to see how it pans out. I guess I absolutely condemn All the claims made by batwoman and we will take her down Dude cameras johnson who plays um, luke. He um, he tweeted out this Bat fam, you know, I couldn't go the whole day without saying something I love y'all. Don't think I haven't seen all the love today But yeah, fam. She was fired and it is very hard to be fired when you're the lead Imagine what you have to do for that happen cameras. Johnson plays. Oh, the guy plays luke right? Yeah Like one of the only two actors who can act on the show Damn, he's like, yeah imagine what you have to do to get fired if you're the lead Damn both hit both him and do grace scott. So that's that's the question is if if um If more people who are in the I don't know the crew start talking about these mishaps on set and all of these injuries and everything like that Then I guess we'll see like at that point, but um I don't know. I mean does she maybe she knows that There's like something preventing the real info from getting out. So she's engaging in this He said she said kind of thing. Maybe she feels that's the best Kind of war that she can wage. Um, I guess so right because if you're not Part of the because it may well be that there are people who are still employed on that show who you know want to keep their jobs Yeah, I don't know. We just have to see we'll have to see how maybe I mean, who knows if it's who knows who's right, but I think it's interesting how both scott and her are uh To be fair they're both people she shout on right? Yeah, by name she yeah All right, I'm just saying like the reason why maybe we haven't heard from jevisia leslie about anything is because it's just like Probably better. I don't say anything But if she was called out personally she'd probably be like, uh, fuck you Um, if bowser killed luigi would that motivate mario more Well, yeah this part of the Requirement I guess of this criticism is that it does motivate them, but it's it makes It makes a character's own value meaningless ultimately that's like the implication Like they would just used to be killed for someone else's story when they have their own story Without realizing how much that fucks with like loads of good stories and that's definitely a thing that happens Like barmy's story ends in amon hen for him. You know, I mean like that is his film It doesn't mean that he's reduced because he's just being used to motivate a bunch of other people to do things No They fridged him. Hey fridged him. Dab it Uh, just some guy made a good video about the Uh, wi r trope wi women and refrigerators I kept thinking of fridges not refrigerators. I was like, it's supposed to be an f surely Women and refrigerators. It's a website created in 1999 by a group of feminist comic book fans That lists examples of the superhero comic book trope. So they just list every time a woman died Where are my female characters are affected by injury rape killed or depowered? Uh, fridging, uh Okay I don't care Fun thing is I've seen it. Oh, go ahead That's god. I just feel like people who make lists like that are not people that I should pay attention mm-hmm Fun thing is I've seen it criticize both ways people call it fridging to have a long running main character Just killed off but also for introducing a new character just to kill them off Gotta get that middle ground And then you'll you'll make them happy Uh last year I hadn't come out when red sedge rey wasn't a Mary Sue. Oh That helps. Okay. That does help. Yeah, especially not the truss is probably the worst of the three to be fair Yeah, it's still it's not good and it's not good in the first but it definitely doesn't get better I Have been going through your tremendous backlog of podcasts from the beginning and I'm really enjoying the journey Your discussions have helped me look at all aspects of my life more objectively also high ranks Hello, oh well I'm glad you're having fun with it. There are a bazillion episodes at this point Because adam and sitch will like ha ha we have more episodes than you now and I was like you guys You number everything you do we don't half of our content is fucking minis You gotta get that Minis and movies and yeah Oh yes Mubelstein, please play the Henry sikman collection. It's hilarious and I'd love to hear your comments out on it in a stream Henry sikman was that Henry sikman Yeah Henry sikman I mean Henry sikman It says sikman, but if this is sikman then that's probably it. Yeah There's a Henry sikman He's got the he's a sikman with a really big black line eyes Hmm. Um, yeah, maybe I don't know Bringy, I agree with most of what you said about fe and smash But if you say that Roy is a clone of math, I will strangle you through the monitor Uh, I don't think I ever said that there is a point. They are similar though Roy they're not the same um because uh, well Yeah, I I mean, I guess that's the thing is it's funny because when I think about brawl It's like I was cool with that when you had like two or three of them. That was kind of Then it just went off the rails Um, no, but I mean some of them are explicitly clones, but they're nevertheless part of the roster, so Mm-hmm Um, I'd love to see lianna k guest on efap one day I don't know that name Very well Let me just put it youtube Okay, I want to say I have Heard of her before but I don't know anything about Yeah, I don't know anything about her. Um Oh, she was on south podcast. She hates the lost of us too Oh Well, uh, yeah, maybe I don't know it's art Um OST one said ray not mary sue. That was before episode seven Uh would be tlj, right? No wait tlj is eight Yes, so she must have said it after tfa before tlj. Yeah True, but it happens who otherwise otherwise I don't sound Weird uh overly sarcastic productions was better, but now it's like they have a minimum of one stupid take per video That's not just restricted to rad blue says weird and wrong stuff too I don't know if it was one stupid thing in a video those those uh That was that was a lot of stupid things a lot of stupid things That was impressive How many wrong things were said? Um I'm commander shepard and this is my favorite stream on the citadel Oh That's good. There's probably a lot of streams on the citadel. Yeah probably, uh I watched knd's video on the moose Episode seven critique. He makes me he makes an insane efap hole of shame First pace worthy line in the first five minutes react to it. Hi rags Hello knd knd This is what it says. I'm all I watched knd uh Knd bid on the moose episodes says So I guess maybe the moo is the episode seven critique. So that's You is the moo you I could be moo. I guess i'm not sure you could be moo episode seven critique he makes An insane efap hole of shame first Place worthy line in the first five minutes react to it. Hi rags. Oh, hello Watch knd Hey chat, who's knd? D well I I'll keep it on. I thought k like k and d I guess that's a channel k and d. Oh, it's next door is what people are saying Well, that would be knd Oh, right. Yeah, this is k and d So I guess what they say will sound the same. Which is probably why they're saying it knowledge. Oh knowledge and defense That would match Yeah, I've only ever seen clips and it's hilarious. He's like a weirdo. Yeah, he's just like a weird loser Um Was stormfront fridge for homelander. Hi rags Oh, hi there. I'm not gonna pretend to know at this point, you know It's like the rules are confusing Uh efap season 10 rags is fridge to motivate mohler. No No Put in a little doggo fridge Um, alec bouldwin cold dog alec bouldwin fridge to clinton foundation slash epstein lawyer by killing his wife That's strange That's a that's a strange super chat. Yeah I got no context for any of that at all um I rags which is better tomboy's or fanboys Uh tomboy's I mean, yeah, this says mohler. Please passionately argue against him, but I agree so Yeah, I agree as well Fringy what simpsons is this remind you of? Uh what this one this is particular Um this episode, hmm Uh Oh, oh, it was the best of times. It was the worst of times you stupid monkey Oh You know because they were all monkeys of the typewriter working on the next great american novel ah Have you that that is an interesting thought experiment if you just get a bunch of monkeys sitting down at a typewriter One of them will inevitably write a masterpiece Just by virtue of you know if you give them enough time I'm not sure that that's gonna take a long time Oh, yeah They they will yeah, it's just like it's an interesting idea. It's like it's not feasible right now I find it really interesting that's all just that a monkey will write the best book ever just because he's typing We don't even need the monkey. You just make an ai at that point, right? Sure, but then ai's not as interesting as if it's a monkey This monkey has written the greatest book of all time and he couldn't tell you shit about it Well, I feel like you wouldn't have to simulate it because it's just Going to happen because of the nature of infinity But I mean we talk about reader response. Yeah, fuck me death of the author We're talking about death of the author. That's a real interesting one Death of the monkey So what what did you what did you mean when you you know, what were you getting at when you wrote this particular plot? We It's like, oh very interesting Um I find Jerry's arc really interesting in terms of you know, what would you say that this is a critique on capitalism? Okay, I never thought about it like that. Thank you, uh monkey All right, uh Next up on our panel. Um, I don't know a fucking octopus that also wrote the greatest novel ever If you're getting in a tight run it for a long time Mr. Octopus, you know What's the first thing the monkey's right is twilight, but it gets better from there And even they recognize what they've done and burn it Get around it with blight stairs watching it fry Um, it's groting me with booger balls. Well, that would be a good reference in terms of scroting the booger balls So I you have a what's out park. So there was an episode where um The kids were forced to read catcher in the rye for their book report And they were told like this book was banned like this book was banned. And of course they're like, holy shit This is gonna be awesome. And then they read it. They're just like that was lame We should write our own band book. And so they write a book called, uh, the tale of scrotivist scrotivist booger balls The whole idea is that they are just writing a book that is bullshit. Like it is just meant to be offensive. Um And then their parents find it And they can't read it without vomiting They finish it and it's funny because it's like it's like ready rudeness. So then scrotie he shoved it up is infected. Oh, man. Ah this This is they're all vomiting. But then the whole idea is oh, but this is like the greatest book ever written The characters are so vivid and like the themes Yeah Oh, it's so good, but you have to follow it You have to It's the most disgusting book ever, but it's it's incredible in terms of its commentary and um Like the whole idea is they frame butters because they don't want to get in trouble and butters becomes like this icon of literature Um, and everybody just keeps talking about this book and what it means and the kids are just like, dude It was bullshit. Like the whole point was that it's bullshit Um, but then butters has to write a his own book Um, but of course butters isn't as lewd as the other kids So the book is called the poop that took a pee It's just like You know the poop and then uh, I think morgan freeman narrowed it and nobody was walking but they're like, oh, this book is incredible That's amazing. It's like the greatest thing ever. Um And it's just the whole idea of like, dude, you guys are just looking for reasons for why this is brilliant It's bullshit. Like sometimes it's just bullshit So I guess that this video made me think of that for some reason I think the other kids they They pin it on butters because they think they're gonna get in trouble. They're gonna get in trouble. Yeah Then he gets the funny thing is a great author Butters still gets grounded. He has to write his book in uh It is bedroom because he still got grounded for the language. Yeah And I remember there was there was like a gag of uh A game show how long can you listen to the book and not evolve it and they just put him in a little box Now I'm just thinking about touch the stove Well now back to touch the stove So like jerry, I hear you're uh, I don't know you work working like automotive. Yeah, and I'll start it when touch the stove Just a game show where you're standing next to an oven You don't even think maybe they're gonna put my hand on the stove There you go chat. We'll give him the simpsons reference Yeah, yeah All like schlimpsies This ended with metal. Oh, yeah Out of context Metal oh, yeah, any thoughts on the 2017 prey game also hyrax Uh, it's really oh first off. Hello. I really like the 2017 prey game I would highly recommend it to people who like Like a survival exploration Uh action sort of game. It's got decent, uh Just I I I would highly recommend I won't go too much further. I really I really enjoyed Nope, I got I said I wouldn't go any further. I really highly recommend it. I gotta stick to my guns Now that's that's really cool and I'm gonna let you finish but let me tell you it is a crying shame The prey too got cancelled. Yep. I'm sorry It just it still upsets me Ripper only Um, I haven't played it, but I plan to at some point I will too It is the good It's I won't he's just normal blue my bad. He's not got a crown you fucking idiot Hey Sorry, I gotta call it out where I see it Uh, would Jinnison's death in Iron Man be considered fridged also hyrax? I certainly am not in the talked about it. I wouldn't know Yeah Like yeah fridging is a box best serve cold Well, the closest we would probably get to calling 20 fridging is when someone dies And it doesn't make any fucking sense. The only thing that comes out of it is forcing someone else to do a thing Um, yeah, and as much as they may be correctly motivated by it The nature of the death is fucking absurd and we were like, yeah, so We would just be talking about how stupid that is. We wouldn't then say this Ifab chat is an example of fridging We don't usually do it that way No Tropes a story shortcuts that can be both good or bad um Yeah, they're neutral. I just think they're neutral Well, it's saying they can be good or bad So at that point is the tropes aren't good or bad. It's just the execution of them can be good or bad Yeah, so tropes are neutral Yes, what ideas do you think that I think aren't shown enough stuff like main character a secret villain trying to sabotage the group and side characters becoming hero I mean, yeah, um Yeah, that's those are some examples the main character who you thought was the main character dying and it was actually not them at all That's uh the fun one That is a character just behaving with basic levels of intelligence I don't think I really miss that But like tropes Well, so that's sort of tropey I assume you're referring to the fact that so many incompetent writers Can't write people properly and so they just end up being really stupid Well, well, I think yeah, that's the stupid ball right who's holding the stupid ball I really hate the stupid ball No one should hold it Well, yeah, I don't think that's what they're after Yes, we we want people to not be stupid tropes. We want to see more. I don't know that it's just what are what are story Situations that are just not common that you would like to see like people being intelligent I guess is what you're saying. It's just like obviously that's not something that's not Yeah, seed is just something that they badly execute is intelligent people That's such a tired cliche intelligent people, yeah If you badly execute intelligent people, that's like having no intelligent people, right? Are they stupid? Yeah, so they're asking stuff that's just not even attempted usually Not even attempted Yeah, so their example was uh your main protagonist turns out to be the villain Yeah Which is very unusual The bad guy has a point trope I like some level of justification for why the bad guy is doing what he's doing He's not just bad for the sake of bad And it's not just power for the sake of power It's the there really is some kind of a point or a purpose or he is informed by things that are happening And so he's trying to do something about it We need more zemos I would agree with that. Yeah, I won't just I just want better villains in general I consider that an upgrade from a villain who's like I want to take over the world. It's like, okay Yeah power for its own sake is It's fine, but it's just like the it's it's the one tiny step above evil because evil You know you can just be boring Which can be boring But yeah, I want to Either no true Um, you know what? I want to be more of uh Unhappy endings where the the resolution is kind of like not right things don't pan out Or maybe just the pyrrhic victories externally you bitters tweet endings. Uh, yeah. Yeah, basically you won but a blind mannered kind of Um, I yeah, blimey. I think that could count. I just I would call that bittersweet. Yeah I guess the thing is it's bittersweet. I'm trying to figure out if I actually mean something different Where like I like in endgame the good guys lose and it's like yep that happens I mean i'm finna see one. I don't know if I went. I don't know if I want any more of that Um, I mean I I just you don't see a lot of it. That's all you don't you don't see a lot of it. Yeah But I'm definitely down with the more We won at a cost or we had to learn like this this we we learned some valuable lesson kind of thing where it's not just everything's just Punky dory dandy at the very end. There's some aspect of I mean it's good that we won But man shame about that's that's that Yeah bittersweet. I was going to say free is up rolled on in part by a kid detective or I really like that ending. Um that felt honest to me and I uh Yeah, I I think it's just um Whether good guys win and it's all really happy. It's like that is just so much the common thing That I do like when the ending actually give a little bit of consideration to Maybe things didn't work out as well as you wanted I think in wrecks don't like happy endings. No, I do I prefer happy Why would they say that? Why? That is not my that is not my take I do like happy endings. I just would like to see a few more stories that uh That are like 100 percent Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Where things are a little bit like You could still have a happy ending that isn't ideal. Yeah, of course Hi mubes frongo and raggles. Hello Hello Hey Self-shame time. I'm 31 and I've never seen pulp fiction. What movie the uh What movie have you yet to see that's passed you by I think is what they're trying to ask Pulp fiction Wait, you haven't seen pulp fiction No, I haven't actually Wow Fair enough What's your answer for that would read? Um, I mentioned I've started reading 2001 the book. I have not seen 2001 the film and that's one that I want to see I have see that um I know plenty about it just through like pop culture references and everything so I basically already know what the movie is and full I uh I think I was asked this on real bbc finally enough and I I went to just IMDb's top movies of all time and the first one I hadn't seen the list I think was city of god. I've not seen that Like in the top 30 or something Because I'm not sure It's probably something more obvious Um, but I'm just not sure exactly which one. I haven't seen that. I've seen a lot of movies. I'm a big old movie nerd I was saying the decent chunk of movies um Can we make fridging synonyms with killing please someone is a serial fridger or someone goes on a fridging spree And then they fridge themselves Fridging spree I could see how we could use fridging themselves that could that could be useful stop here Fridging is an epidemic has to be stopped Tear it out from the roots White the slate clean burn it down. Nobody's gonna get that right Yes, um, it's uh pirates of caribbean Hey, no, it's not you know, it's not I meant uh office space See he's silent because that was right. Oh wait. Okay. Stop it It's um, so the mario movie with bob hoskins, right? No, it's okay. You don't It's um the whale movie jules Uh, that's a shark like you're just messing with me now. All right. I think that's uh, that's a shark. That's a unicorn Unishark Sharky corn Um broke i'm the protagonist of my life woke i'm the villain of my life bespoke reject modernity embrace nbc mpc sir Uh, while I don't always agree with everything as p says I think the videos provide interesting talking points But in her video about kaiju. She says king kong is super racist Due to him being an allegory for black people high rags I never thought that I I don't think I've ever heard that before that's new to me. So that's the opposite take Also, I have no idea rags. Are you about to say you've never do you know the connection for king kong and black people? just In terms of like the the villagers I would assume that the racist part would come from the villagers On skull island might be depicted as racist. Um, oh no, I mean I've never heard that king kong was an allegory for black people Yeah, the story itself the those people made this connection of like it's Uh, a bunch of americans go to a particular place Pull him out of his homeland and then chain him up for their own benefit He goes nuts and then he gets killed by them for you know being aggressive or whatever is like There's there's elements there to connect and i'm pretty sure yeah, like i'm not sure if we race it Well, no, so i'm gonna what my point here is that king kong is trying to make a particular point to say to flip it To be like it's actually right. So i'm trying to think of how this would translate for something You know, like if someone was to say blah blah blah as anti-capitalist That you like it's actually cruel to capitalists Capitalism it's immoral or something usually like wait by being that Um, yeah, because I remember that when in peter jackson's kong that the the whole idea is it's tragic Like this animal with living here in its home it got pulled out of its home and they got killed for it Um, like it's unfortunate. It shouldn't be here Then again, I guess that one doesn't have the Well, it seems yeah, I don't know I'm assuming she's like she's almost like reversed engineered it instead like it's because you can connect it It's racist rather than what isn't it's a condom it based on what you've said It sounds like it's a condemnation of The idea being it's not king times fault He was dragged out of his home and then strung up and so yeah, he rages out and they kill him And it's like wow what a fucking angry monkey thing and it's like well, but You did this. Yeah, I would I would have jumped to something else before that like Like like colonialism no one benefits from it Like you might think that you do like the people did like the the white people did But they didn't actually benefit from it, you know, it's it's like, uh That would be what I would go to first, but there's probably a number of messages you could pull from it Um It's just like the the aspect of you can't control nature Um, you know things of that things of that nature don't punch above your weight class essentially um, but Yeah, I I never I never ever watched that and And and thought it was racist or had racist messages If someone said like the fact that there's allegorically a connection to slavery or something and that It's a gorilla. Therefore racist. I should be like that seems like a pretty shallow reading And plus like the original king kong was made in 1933 if they wanted to be racist They would have just been racist You give me just straight forward about Like they just you didn't have to hide it back in 1933 Um But no, I mean, I I don't know what she has definitely said on that subject But that sounds a little awkward and stupid, but who knows Archduke Franz Ferdinand was largely unimportant to the plot of world war one He was fridge. God damn it Someone uh, someone said isn't it racist to compare black people to grills in the first place So the the idea here, too Is that you've kind of almost trapped yourself out of an option Because when it comes to like animals that you could use to portray something else because Animals are very symbolic depending on cultures and whatnot The idea that you want to say, okay I want to portray this group of people this race this culture this kingdom this whatever Using an animal and that animal needs to be super strong, right? You might think oh a gorilla would be a perfect option for that where it's It's strong. It could have brutish force and that sort of thing And you're sort of because of the connotations you're excluded from using that as a symbolic way to represent certain people So you it's been locked out of use essentially in a way If you had a film full of animals that talk and stuff and the and the free spirited sort of Patriotic one is an eagle. You're like, oh, yeah, that lines up, but then like, I don't know the one who's aggressive and uh Is the only character there that came from I don't know fucking the jungle But he's also just a gorilla that you can easily see people being like, wait, what are you trying to say? It's like yeah, people Instantly they're like, oh a gorilla that means a black person and you're like, whoa fucking calm the hell down Mate, you know like fucking chill People who are looking to problematize anything It's like the whole false positives thing they develop a system that system produces these all results These results have a pattern of having these things you look at those patterns you find those things those things get spotted Something else you assume it's one of those one of the examples and it's like no And actually it just has Superficial elements kind of like with the um the video today. She was identifying all these things that come with The trope, but they're also in good things. So it's like, uh A little confused here I know this isn't appropriate, but I But it still kind of is since it is was my money being spent on you dumbo So do super chats get shared with rags and fringy? Yes that means for every Every dollar that you send to e-fap dot a e-fap limited uh e-fap and co e-fap limited uh e-fap uh Incorporated We all get LLC Yeah, so if you hate one of us, but love the other two Then you're just gonna have to bite the bullet and understand that every dollar goes to One of the people you hate, but at least two people you like it. So It's like, yeah, freeing rags can have the sandwich. I guess I'm only you can have one too Jesus damage Um uncle own and aunt baru were fridged via barbecue ice burn With poor lads Fridge via barbecue Um, if so, what of the percentages also play ddlc Fucking you'd be dreaming if I'm going to tell you all the things that go on to the background of e-fap It'd be in frigging rags. Fuck that Forgot to say hi to metal give us a hot take Oh, yeah Uh Uh, uh, I didn't like breath the wild that much. Oh, shit Oh my goodness gracious dare you the hot take isn't that you didn't like you got to say it's bad Oh, no, I wouldn't say I wouldn't go that far Our coward chat go on the coward No, why it's Colossus blur I mean, I know it's not the best game ever made like the last of us too, but it is pretty good. Oh, no Oh my god A lot of people say in coward metal you got to do it You're a chat metal. I think they meant to say chat. We called you a chat I'm a chat. I'm a window that scrolls chat on it Well, there you go. Mel said breath the wild is a terrible game. Damn That's not I'm I'm expecting lots of reddit threads. Oh, maybe I wouldn't say it if the game wouldn't be so shit Damn Dara fucking said it Um Grace Randolph said black widow and gamora were fridged in infinity war and endgame. I think whatever See the average simple explanation for today That's because grace randolph is an idiot a little bit. Yeah for what I saw Dude that one video for suicide swan. Holy shit the amount of stuff. She said not expecting that That was that was uh, my expectations That was pretty funny that was the hell Remember when she just like it almost exclusively talked about rating the movie through fucking tomatoes Like just you know, there's some movies that I refuse to give um a fresh tomato because of how I will Shut the fuck up. Just tell me whether or not it's any good She's like if an alien made an algorithm to pretend to be a person Uh, yes, I will give you the tomatoes for your movie score. You know, it just has that vibe to it They push tomatoes towards you other when you ask them. How good is my movie? She just had a little basket but some of the tomatoes down like what what what are we what? What what's happening? Don't you understand? No, actually. No, I actually don't care Uh fridges had their chance Kind of No, she's in that fuck now. She's dead Oh Um blanket on popcorn popped e-fap covering female. Yep. It's misogyny time Hey, there. Welcome to misogyny time Uh, you watch bazook, which one the 1997 series of 2016 one? Oh the good one at least by comparing those two Uh, or did you watch the 2012 movie trilogy? No, no, no, no, no No, no No Uh, despite only making up 15 percent of characters women account for nearly 50 percent of fridging incidents also high rags Oh my goodness. Hello Rags you're straight get to the bottom of this Oh, wait. Oh, no, I'm not. No, sorry. I made a mistake. They said hi rat. It's the way the line broke up Longo, you're straight. All right. I'm straight for now. I guess And uh frongo give me your and it just ends No Oh, sorry, buddy. I don't want to give you that beat Give me that no It's his Um on almost all characters secondary the argument is of less female primary character doesn't change how many secondary characters are women Oh, yeah, I think she says at one point like typically there are less primary characters that are women And it's just like at that point it's probably negligible in terms of all secondary characters Like changing out how many primary or women That's fair When I'm outlining stories if I have like a main character and a villain I refer to them as like the a plot and b plot respectively when I'm outlining But um, I don't consider One to be like of less importance than the other like Heroine I kind of see me like yeah secondary usually just means they just don't have as much time Or it's not as much about them like it's never you it doesn't mean like they're fucking worthless or anything Yeah, I only use a and b to like distinguish them on paper Mm-hmm Um mohler racism and unbridled praise when Christmas Uh mohler you've been a little short lately. I just wanted to ask if everything is okay I need my long e-faps to get through the workdays high rags Well, I mean, you're still getting um, obviously you've had what was it four e-fap movies this month So that's probably uh, and we're still dropping them minis and you got double e-faps this week Yes, we had I think we had two five hour e-faps in a row Um, we're just terrifying for the audience. I know but um I mean, I because I'm doing a couple more shows lately on different channels. Um So like it's just a little bit stretch for the thin, but I am all right. I am a okay I'm always too busy working on the polio vaccine and unbridled catastrophe Yes, my magnum opus Um Women's rights and unbridled catastrophe. All right. This is minor buffy spoilers And then it says a thing that um, yes, that makes complete sense and um That is indeed the episode that goes from I think it'll be the episode Hopefully the rags of mel will both be like, oh the show isn't entirely shit anymore. I'll be like, yay That's usually the one where it kind of changes it up Been enjoying the show a lot really looking forward to the great seasons. Oh, yes Let's just say if you're on board by season three, you're in for a real fun, right? Um, some people take a little longer though. That's all right Being a bligh when you're gonna bring drinker to justice for his crimes against good rat Like I'll I'll make him watch a series of videos I'll eventually make for bligh and then I will poke him with hot Poke a rod things and be like say bligh good do it. They're good Uh, hey mola rags and fringy. Hello Hello there of these adult video game characters. Fuck mary kill say nijima Say deo kawakama and ty. Wait, didn't we do this one? I recognize these names you did it last time didn't you rags you looked at them you looked them up Which ones Uh, no, these are oh, yeah, I remember that even yeah Uh, well, let me let me the first one. I don't remember say Nijima And said don't be racism And then we have Yeah, it's not popping up in my search. Uh, so yeah, said die. Yo kawakami And the next one is tai takemi Oh, whoops tai takemi. My right hand was off one position All right, so these appear to be lady Lady characters looks like they're from persona five um So let me see I guess based on looks Hmm more weeb stuff. Mm-hmm. It seems to be more it definitely seems to be more weebbery I think I might go with Hmm Fuck Mary kill uh I think I might want to I want to marry stedio. She looks wholesome Uh, I'm gonna May I'm gonna fuck sign a jima and kill tai takemi I'll second that I'll trust your ratings ranks Yeah, I have no idea who these people are, but I feel like that's my My my extremely moderate thought process that went into that So, yeah, very the teacher. Yeah, she seemed teachery. She seemed like the most normal and wholesome of them So we're gonna marry her Um, the the one I was gonna fuck she she seems like the business type Uh, so, you know, there's this aspect of you know, I'm having sex with like a powerful woman So that's kind of nifty and cool and the other one just sort of seems depressed So maybe I'm doing her a favor All right then In train to busan with the military throwing zombies out of helicopters I think we're supposed to believe that a bunch of people tried to get into a helicopter and then zombies held on Yeah, they yeah, they were hanging on to the little landing strut thingies and then they fell off Um, it's a good thing they went any zombie cats or dogs in train to busan Um, I guess theoretically there are they probably are. Yeah. It's just that the last story didn't Zombie deer. Yeah, that's right. Zombie do Man zombie birds you gotta watch out for them. You get a couple one good peck Breaks the skin and you might be uh, you might be in trouble there Um, I thought it was weird how the main character's told to take the rear But he ends up being in the middle. He actually ends up being in front I think by the time they get through the full first fight. It's just obviously the I think the idea was I'm gonna punch kick and throw them Uh middle guy hit them with a bat back guy just keep them off as as we move with your shield Um, but it didn't quite work out that way as they started doing it Nature of fighting zombies, I suppose Always chat upset their favorite content creators being covered in the usual way and being revealed as less competent than they thought again Hey, look Call us out if you think we're doing something fucking hypocritical and everything. I'm totally fine with that I just it does feel uncanny when you see messages like hey, let them finish. Hey, why are you pausing so much? It's like wait a minute. What the fuck? Who are you? Where did you come from? And you're like, oh, yeah, because we're gonna have new people in chat Like genuinely people who this format is fucking alien to them. You're like, why are you what is this? Let them talk And if if their argument were to become clear at the end of it I'm sure you guys would address that right I can see by the end of this video what she was getting at but That didn't really happen with this Well, I saw it like in the train to Busan when someone was like, wow, they took a parody seriously And I was like, it's like they don't even listen to us when we cover stuff It's super explicit about all of that. It's just like no parody. That'd be stupid All right Troupe talk inciting incidents trope talk call to adventure trope talk conflict Not everything that happens frequently is a trope you hipster. Hi Hi I mean, I just like I said, I don't even see a huge amount of value and fucking get in the category straight at that point I just don't talk about it Like is this thing a trope? I'm like, let's just talk about whether or not fucking can be done. Well Hmm Um, no one's a better term for this red shooting. She's describing random Star Trek deaths Um Well the thing about red shoots is that they don't necessarily motivate anybody to do anything That's what fridging seems to be regarding specifically It's not just someone dies. It's that they die to make a different character Want to do a thing and thus it's disrespectful to them as a character It seems to be the point I'm making um Check out the nerf limited halo needler very cool The limit the what now I guess the nerf have made a halo needler nerf halo needler images The gun in halo, right? That's like a dark dark untoy version. No the nerf one looks like shit though I mean, it's not. Yeah, it's yeah Then the the It looks Yeah, it looks kind of shit like I see what they tried Mm-hmm. It doesn't it doesn't look cool. Does it ranks? No, it doesn't See different versions Yeah, the nerf one is Like you can tell it's a needler, but What a picture I've seen is a digitally rendered one. Okay Uh Fridge my gf, please I need to grow as a person Uh Joel jesse and team abby the last of us two is fridging the game Fridging the game meaning um Yeah, again, I have a feeling that she wouldn't say that the last of us two counts. I'm not sure though Is that she thinks a lot of stuff counts? I don't know Um What an example of fridging is the townspeople in Wanda vision Hmm. Um, I guess with the exception that they don't die Well, what does he learn it involves suffering? It's just for him. That's true. That suffering is just for her Does what I mean? Like you start it's so expansive that it starts to just be like absurd Uh luke never mentioned bigs at all between dinner at the last house until he shows up at the end And never mentions him again after he dies, but nobody believes he didn't mourn him hashtag linda fridge It's weird. Yeah, man. It's really It's really hard to be definitive like our luke clearly didn't care about uncle Owen and our brood you're like Luke didn't care about hain well Ryan johnson almost made it so that he didn't Um apologies for the typo. I'm no problem. No problem. No problem Speaking of titanic lego is releasing a six hundred dollar set of the ship It's massive and you can find it in the coming soon section of the lego website Sounds neat the what? Coming soon section of the website Yeah, but what what is what is it? Oh, uh titanic ship six hundred dollars I got you Can you fridge yourself and stumbles the old republic the mmo from bio where doth malak I don't know if this is a spoiler or not killed a woman. He loved to eliminate his weakness But he did use the grief to empower himself iraq Hi I would ask me like that's not sense. Uh, sure. I assume that counts fridging yourself That's fridging someone else. Yeah, you're it's like I assumed that would count. Yeah yourself is yeah, like that's I'm gonna kill myself so that I could be a better ghost What better thing to make of your life than being a good ghost Uh, pretty sure install was 10 minutes after his parents die all around gets destroyed He then meets leia who just lost her whole planet. I could understand luke being quiet about his parents dying Um, he's just got a lot going on is the point He's got oh Yeah, leia's like, oh your parents died. Oh your parents died. Wow. That sounds really bad luke Man, I can't imagine that that must be real. That must really suck losing your parents. Wow She does good solo, but he's uh Like morning ban as well. There's leia's a good one. Yeah, she does. Yeah, she's a good one She's a great character. I wonder what will become of her Yeah, because apparently the uh the obi one show is gonna feature her In a significant way. That's what I've heard Oh, okay. That's what everybody wants All right, by the way, um, I'm pretty sure that um, it's been confirmed that Hayden christensen's gonna be in uh, asoka as well Dude, he's gonna be he's gonna play he's gonna be in the vader suit and he and obi one are gonna have a fight And it's gonna be cringe as fuck and I'm gonna see people celebrate it and I'm gonna be very unhappy Oh I've always wanted to see vader and obi one fight But now they like really fight not that one Yeah, not the first time didn't fucking count That was about the second time character and history This one was cool because uh, do you see the pot where he like did the flip with the lightsy like He did the flip and he he breathed he went And then leia showed up with her lightsaber and stopped them from fighting Yeah, I wonder if that'll happen actually It would be I just I like the idea that just stuff that's impossible I was like ray. She comes in just to stop the fight. You're like, what why she's not is she even alive? Oh, maybe asaka will stop shove them all in anyone we can get shove them get them in there Yeah Boys are fighting. I am gonna peace out now. I just realized it's half past three and that makes sense. Oh, nice and early Yeah, nice and early Okay, I'm free of the minds tomorrow, right? I can do whatever I want I think I'll allow you to do whatever you want. Yeah, like laws and stuff more amnesia Alrighty, goodbye mortal Yeah Long flying flying have a good one. Yeah gonna fridge myself. Mm-hmm There he goes fridge in himself fridge in peace Is it just me or are there a lot of jump cuts in her video? Uh, she had a couple flash frames throughout the clip. She was using I don't know about yeah, if that's what you mean. No, it's it's it's kind of a messy video. It wasn't very well edited Did she just unintentionally create fridging of the author? Uh I usually enjoy overly sarcastic productions content, especially when they talk about greek myths and such but this is just painful to listen to Oh, yeah, it was They stick to greek myths not geek myths. Ho ho Glad to catch efap live if people won't describe rey as a mary sue fine We can just rename the trope to she's a rey skywalker That's what I mean. It doesn't fix rey as a character to say she's not a very sue. It's like she's still shit Um The anime yuyuhaku show Plays with this idea by the villain pretending to kill the protagonist's best friend in order to motivate him into giving the villain a proper challenge Highly recommend It's like those are scenarios you can come up with where fridging is like in narrative something Or at least how she's described it something that the characters are invested in doing in the first place It's like she's saying no you got to learn about that lady first Oh, I guess hamlet is bad since the king is killed offstage and it's not like his death matters at all, right Don't kill people offstage. It's a screen rather. That's what I understand to be true now Uh, while I really like overly suck acid productions a lot of this stuff can be really hit and miss Hopefully red will come on and discuss this She would be welcome to Is othello's wife fridging Um, if someone died and it was a woman. No Oh, well, yeah, that's mona definitely fridging. I think your name is desdemona Fridging in cold. Uh, it is desdemona. Yeah, so No, she doesn't die until like the end Sounds like your opinion But then again, I guess a character can die near the end and it doesn't like you have pad may and You know like like what is like she dies near the end the whole thing but No Well, because he well my spoilers, but Say it molas say the prequel memes I I I I I just mentioned the prequels. I didn't do no no prequel meme and I was no need to do such things We'll find Um, would uncle ben count as fridging we kind of went over that, right? Yeah Yeah, I probably would I think by her definition he does Unless not because he's a man Oh, yeah, maybe not because yeah She did I'm pretty sure the word women came up several times in her like little tidbits and stuff. So Um, unironically, I'd say han and luke's deaths qualify much more as fridging than pad maze Both of them made little sense besides the gut punch um You could argue but what would han steth accomplish With how weird kylo was written. I was about to say because I was I was about to try to argue I guess it motivates kylo to and then i'm like well, but he just does anything so To keep wobbling. Yeah They motivates ray to be angry at kylo for five minutes Then she kisses him at the end and then he dies to save your life after they speech Well in fairness, uh kylo did forgive himself That's that's good. That's great. It's good mental health. I suppose I've seen people say that it's like it is important for him to forget It's like yep, but it has nothing to do with like the fucking relationship he had with han Nothing nothing at all. Han's fucking dead You don't want to bottle up all that guilt that you have as a master It's just it is funny to me. It's like I feel kind of guilty that I killed him But you know what I think that's it's okay It's like oh, okay What do you think me? Uh characters aren't people don't deserve anything Um, oh you mean like there is no deserve with characters or I we use that it's not about deserve. It's about what you believe and I believe in love Then I will destroy you that never stops getting funny It's fucking hilarious It's like some of the shittiest dialogue I've ever made. It's it's at bad level It's so fucking bad Like the the lie commonly agreed upon still is oh the first movie is pretty good and I Well, remember when when daco brought up what as is here and he was like wait, you guys don't like it It's like no On the count of it being poopy We both chose poopy independently at the same time to describe the first wonder woman Well, I guess those have kind of been revealed now So that was the whole reason why me and rags were like interested in starting this whole thing Uh, we described something as poopy at the same time and I was like, you know what that's that's That's true love. That's that's a wavelength right there. And then one day I was like, hey, what do you think of blah blah? And you went there's a bit poopy and I was like rags rags rags you got to see this We have our we have our third host Yeah, it's just as the spiders were told Yes He who speaks poopy shall be the third host of the fact Uh, yes rags. You're right. Also. Hi moeller and fringled Fringoid. Hey Yeah, I agree. That's fair also, hi Love love is a pathway to power somewhat deemed too murderous to younglings. Hi waggleton Hi, however, you're never too murderous to younglings I was about to say though that that kind of highlights the thing, right? It's like addicting slow children I could picture her being like he's not capable of love. I just be like, oh I think she's also a communist to it makes sense. She doesn't understand reality. Oh my Well, that would explain that Imagine if her read on Thanos was true after he tossed Gamora and nothing happened and no stone roll credits So You could have gone that direction where Thanos then realizes what he feels for isn't love at all By the universe's standards or whatever you want to say is happening and in vormir, but I'm not sure what you do with the story there You have to get him to get someone to you know, he has to convince someone to fucking sacrifice their family member I guess to get the stone then take it off him Yeah, um Uh, yeah, and the word is a soul stuff. I guess it goes back after you use it It goes into we'll know if you destroy it. So what is red skull doing right now? If there's no soul stone to guide is he just hanging out? Oh, well, just having a chill less people know like maybe you can get more than one a little vending machine mini soul stones cabinet somewhere Um, you don't need made up examples of people hurting those they love. There's 1800s blanche mon noir or blanche monnier mother can find Blanche to a dark room for years because she disapproved of the fiance police released her. She couldn't speak People do horrible things to the people they love. That's a thing Not like yeah, they still love craft's mother was super paranoid. She was She was mentally ill. She was like putting a sanitarium, but uh Yeah, it's one of the reasons that he turned out the way he did was because his mom like kept him secluded Wouldn't let him go out Only thing I would correct is that trope talk doesn't say all tropes are bad and talks about some positively It doesn't make her tism valage. You got a lot more. Trust me. Also. Oi there rags rugs. Hello. I don't think um I don't think I ever said that she said that she thinks all tropes are bad Just that this one was bad Uh, this is like fridging someone is something you shouldn't do and then she lines up what fridging is and then she's Accidentally said that loads of great stories shouldn't have done things the way that they did them. It's like, hmm Which could be valid, but I don't think she meant what she eventually implied And I'd love to go over some examples with it Um, how dare this villain do this villainous thing? She wants Thanos to be irredeemable asshole rather than a bad person Who is still capable of love. Yeah, I think that's exactly it I think that she hates Thanos so much that it shouldn't be considered that what he has for Gamora in any way could be considered love What great riding. It's the thing. It's a harsh reality for you that love is not some glorious altruistic wonderful happy Balloons and rabbits thing. It's like it's just there's a lot of elements to it. They're a lot more complicated Yeah, we use love and to me in a lot of different ways and there's a lot of different kinds of love It's a it's a complicated thing Um, would it be crossing the line if he killed a sexy lamp? I don't know I don't know if I'd want to Be definitive about that Red is right. You guys just hate women I know I'm gonna hide that Uh, hulu owl guy here. I also think the sunny d logo looks like a wiener Let's take a look Sunny d logo all because sunny d is basically orange acid that you put in your mouth You're saying that sunny d looks like a penis I mean, I know why that's being said, but come on. We gotta have standards better than that Yeah, we gotta do way better than this guys. I know what you're referring to but it's just I don't drink it for the taste. I drink it for the wieners. I see a wiener on the label. I'm like, I gotta get some of that I gotta I just Everyone in the store and me right now. But Right down the throat Sunny d really is disgusting It is kind of gross. I used to like it as a kid, but it's liquid sunlight. What's wrong with that? Yeah Kids like mcdonald's and kids like Stupid bullshit But yeah, sunny d is terrible. It's it is like orange Acid in your mouth. It is just so tart and it's Like you could I swear you could if you put some in your mouth and close your teeth You could feel the grittiness of how fucking sugary it is and just how Yeah Question do you think sunny d should be fridge? It should be thrown out. It should be garbage Garbage it should be it should be dumpstered. My god and garbage got barbaged Capri sun is better. Correct. Capri sun is better. Yeah, I'd agree with that Capri sun is better than sunny d. I haven't had tang in a long time, but tang is probably better than sunny d Uh, was france food and then fridgeed. Yeah I think we've been over that. I'm several times definitely hundred percent fridgeed all we learned about all all the uh, He's the most famous thing he ever did was get shot. Exactly. And that's just unacceptable. He's okay He was very good at getting shot though He nailed it. Yeah Yeah, was he 10 out of 10 because he Because he almost like stumbled into it, you know like it was like a happenstance Like it wasn't really like premeditated the assassination That's why it was so guy. It was just like, oh There he is. There's our sugar fruit Ferdinand talk to that guy Yeah, I wonder I wonder if the person who assassinated him If they knew that it would plunge Europe and more into world war one the great war would they still have done it? What are you mauler? Would you have done it? Even even knowing that it would begin or help begin the great war. Would you still kill archduke ferdinand? Well, it's something that he told me himself as to why I had to do it. So yes So rags could pre rags could pre in my son. Oh my god Keep your foul Tongue but hide your teeth. I don't remember what he said It's something to do a lot. It says it lord rags Your forked tongue. Yes, because some men just want a tangerine. No Imagine if she was here to hear these points the response would be the classic just right um Be glad she's not fans in chat I mean, maybe maybe not. Maybe I feel like if she were in a conversation She could be so much clearer than that fucking video, which is I guess ironic because that's like the The video is the time where you make it all fucking clear, but oh well Then again, maybe I'm uh expecting too much. I don't know My intro to fridging was a video by Carl smallwood. He usually does okay But this video was terrible and he defends captain marvel assaulting the dawn. Oh, dude Oh, fucking hell. How do you defend that? This is one of them like Basic tests moral compass. Yeah, like you're just like you have a flawed moral compass if you think that's okay It's unreal like there's something fucked up about you I know that the argument was made at one point like oh people like it when he did it in t2 Uh, but they don't like it when a woman does it and it's like, no, you don't understand You've been the sexism. You're saying that a woman breaking a guy's hand is okay Like why are you saying that you know that if the rules are reversed that wouldn't be okay You were the sexism all along Fucking stupid legal eagle who was like, hey, you know if you feel your life is a danger You can totally get away with like like doing suit acts like that. It's just like she's fucking invincible. What do you mean? He like he lightly touched her map Which is assault then she then she trapped him in a handshake She offered it. That's what she gets. She offered him a handshake and he was just so thrilled Yeah, a handshake from this lovely lady and then he just gets fucking us this Battery He almost gets fridged. I mean, I'll be honest with you like it does in retrospect I think we brought this up as well, but it does kind of come across. It's just like a little bit creepy from the people who made it They're like, yeah, suffer man who asked for a smile. You're like, oh boy Oh boy What are you doing Um, I'd like to propose the Dunning Kruger knowledge Dunning Kruger effect Where knowledge of the Dunning Kruger effect makes you more subject to it and more likely to use others of it To abuse it knowing about Oh, like if you know about it, you'll accuse people of it more. That's probably true But I was gonna say that applies to everything that you're not aware. Yeah Like that's what that's why I'm with fallacies saying people found out about them and they were like, there it is I got it. You know, I know you don't got it. I'm like, yeah, I do Yeah, like I never accused anyone of gaslighting me before I knew what gaslighting was right, yeah Like pandora's box being bestowed the gift of uh What fallacies are yeah Pandora's fridge and then you would use it No pandora's fallacy Pandora's icebox Worst writing advice ever from lincara Why would you ever kill a character? That means taking away the ability to tell stories with them? Oh my god Good thing that I could literally invent an infinite amount of characters But how can you square that away with all stories? Like what? Does he think that all stories suck because everyone gets killed at the or at least some people do Damn dude ever die EFAP 158 bitches get fridges or how I learned it's bad to have females die. Yeah, that's that's the title of this one Uh, it's been an adventure to say the least Thanos tries to do what he thinks will save the universe osp. Thanos is pure evil. Yeah, what? Well It's it's weird. I would actually like to talk to her about Thanos as well because Especially infinity war Thanos man It's like he's a little bit more complex than man. You can't see past his own chins. You're like well And I swear I pressed a there, but it didn't didn't come up Guy tried to fridge half the universe. Well, that's why he's the villain greatest writer of all time Oh man, I think I'm doing this all wrong. Oh, yeah, I'm supposed to go left Now I'm winning Uh, it's not her fault. She took a women's studies class Oh, well, I mean there's plenty to learn in them, you know about tropes Writing right now though. No, probably not They just talked about the fucking Bechtel test for three semesters That I can't believe that even like has any kind of traction. It is the stupidest fucking test You know, it's like the test in this video. It's like overly sarcastic productions tests. Those are shit too. Yeah Uh, Bormie would fall into this too and that's wrong. Also so doing pretty great I'd argue can't wait for the coverage. Love you massives and high rags Hello Um Yeah, I wonder if Bormie accounts or not at this point you sort of give up and just assume everyone who dies Who is a man probably doesn't Um, because she didn't use it. Did she use any male examples of it being bad? Hmm. I don't think so I don't remember you doing it In this video her vision of gadelb every position she has is insane Well, yeah, but we don't like to put everything in gadelb from every video. Otherwise, it'll be 10 years long Um morning moeller and lads morning Also, hi rags Good to see you guys covering this video. I normally like osp's content But this one was noticeably badly written when I watched it. Keep up the good work And I will admit you bet Uh, I feel for you guys out there who would have liked both that channel in this channel This one would have been a little tough probably I guess we fucking shredded that You know in your heart that you love us more Search your feelings. You know them to be true. I honestly don't quite love that video because oof Curious what some of her other takes are they can't all be bad. I assume she's got to have some good stuff in there Uh, did vision get a bench? Uh, I guess you could they the vision got a town they Well, so I don't know if the joke's big made or if you're serious because like because rags is right He got a whole tv show related to his death. So Uh You may not have got a bench scene and thus You could argue there's more criticism to levy against him in terms of the trope Because he qualifies the same as black widow does Um and and didn't get any scenes like that But then again, she said he had a whole tv show about someone grieving for his death So I guess she would say that that's more Um Jackie Chan and arnie's movie ox when? Oh, I think that's definitely on the list Um, not sure when though also ever watched a new police story. It's a it's a chan movie Um No, also thoughts on face chappelle I assume I meant dave chappelle. I like him a lot. I find him funny. It's not very very funny Very funny and uh get a lot of insight listening to him. Glad he's still working Wanted to keep going don't stop but if he wants to take a break. That's fine Um And hi alice They must be referring to the resident evil movies Um, but yeah, I have not seen that movie reference in there We'll have a go at good ol jackie chan and arnie's movies at some point. I imagine Yeah, maybe I think we're long overdue for a batman well movie Um, maybe we'll get one. Who knows Maybe hopefully Samuel jackson deep blue sea very sudden Yeah, well, I mean nobody thinks that movie's good though. So it's a bit But um That's an e-found movies movie right there Yeah Castlevania seasons one and two are great three and four. Ah Oh I hear that. I don't watch seasons one and two Well Apparently that's a good move That sucks though that he's coming to shit then Uh, can we talk about roofing this bitch needs it? Oh my god He needs to get a roof replaced I mean if it's if it's in disrepair then yeah, I completely agree Yeah leaks are bad You got to fix leaks because water damage can yeah, it's it's subtle sometimes but you got to take care of that You can't let it faster But yeah, uh, you know make sure your roof's all right everyone Check your roofs Call roofers Um, I wish Ra was here for this video imagine Oh If only Uh The wife at the beginning of up had almost no screen time with no dialogue It's still crushed everyone. So that's just one that just fucks with her narrative and that's probably why it didn't come up Because like Up is practically completing a storytelling challenge the opening of up And it fucking worked. So what can you say? Um, you don't even need to go to story to know that people love heroic sacrifices We still talk about heroic sacrifices from battles that happened thousands of years ago the battle of thermopylae is a big one It was a bizarre statement she made and I have no idea how to deal with it People don't really like the heroic sacrifices like you would say Yeah strange person to think that Uh, mr. Freese's wife in batman and robin is a character who got fridged But has no character whatsoever and only exists for the sake of his character. She's also in a literal fridge Yeah, well, uh, you're not allowed to do that bad That's what I meant, but that's that's a good example If you just meet up with this guy who's doing all of these evil things you find out he's got a wife and like Perpetual frozen. I don't know what science he's using exactly because obviously it's uh high-fivesh, but Is that it's like oh the story would be better if we knew her really well It's like I don't know that we have to spend time on that We understand what's happening here and if the story is strictly about him, that's okay Um We don't care about john wick's wife. We care about how her death affects him Yeah, I I feel like john wick would be one for her to have to address Again all under the guise as well of the she keeps appealing to how the audience don't like these things It's like they clearly do The best anime is actually australian and if you can't guess what it is sassy is going to be disappointed tbls I have no idea. I don't know what that is australian anime. I have no idea What are you talking about beat? Yeah, fucking and then they've got a licking emoji. I have no idea Is it was it's tws tbls Oh the big ledge. Oh, there you go. People mentioned it before the butt liquor syndrome. I don't think that one Yes, totally You can't believe what it makes you do. Oh god The infinity stones are not macguffins. They are essential stop using it wrong, please Uh, we've been over it on you for a couple times. It's become a little bit colloquial to just say item of importance um as opposed to Uh, I think the classic definition for it is literally that it's a an item that we never know what it does But it's one that's sought after Um, also I use the loot. I'll be right back. Mm-hmm Pulp fiction being a classic example. There's something in that briefcase that a lot of people want. We never know what it is Mm-hmm Does she want a Tolkien-esque length sort of backstory for every character and if character has to die it has to be meaningful to avoid fridging This is something of an issue. I think that eventually will happen is that um There can be no character that is killed That doesn't have a sufficient amount of information about them to know their their hopes and dreams and how that's It's tragic that they've lost their chance to achieve them or something like that Um, if you are ever pulled over and have all the drugs in your trunk Tell them you've seen a spider in the back left corner Do you see the spider? But why? I don't understand. What's that? Is that? Am I missing something? Yeah, no idea Very well Uh, you want the truth you want the truth. There is no fridge. Oh my god Crazy. I mean, it's just kind of mind-blowing. Sorry. I have to appreciate that for a moment I just keep wondering how she got into arch's living room and when he's going to throw her out My god It would be funny if that was her. She just breaks into people's houses and to record and He's like, okay Uh, is she one of the narrators for watch mojo? I've got no clue She did remind me she sounded like a but I would imagine she isn't Uh, I read the mortal engines book not perfect But lots of potential with easy fixes and with uh with polish with exception to the third book The movie is horrid. I have only heard bad things about the movie. Yeah Like not only did it flop it was Like it's just something that no one enjoyed which is kind of interesting, right? See a movie that no one likes that is yeah Um, I'm three hours behind someone like oh, yeah, there's probably somebody who was like no, I was pretty cool actually All three of them I'm three hours behind but I've been waiting for you guys to cover overly sarcastic productions There are a lot of bad takes from trope talks king Kong is racist and the defensive ray from tlj I racked Oh, they've been telling us that it's Who's before tlj came out So who knows? All right I want to see a react to a landing craft full of women take on an mg42. Oh Well, you see We would say that all the men in indeed. They were were uh fridged, but They ain't women Fridged and melted a perfect balance No Melted and then put into a forage imagine that If you had to choose between fridging or getting melted, which would it be also high rags So if we're talking about These scenarios leads your death death by cold or Melted I guess it's like the idea I go I don't know. There's there's probably a correct answer this and by that. I mean at least painful one out of the two Or at least extend it. I wonder if cold is the better way to go. I'm not sure Well, you could survive in a fridge and not melt because it's not a freezer, right? You wouldn't freeze to death Well, if if the implication is you die from both of these which you prefer then we have to assume you die just from either the cold of the fridge or You just eventually starve Dehydrate I guess. Well, I wouldn't want to prolong my death in an enclosed space like a fridge. So maybe melting's the way to go Just get it over with somehow melting sounds more painful than burning. Um, even though Like we don't really melt, right? Or just I have to get how skin reacts to heat in different ways I think you melt with lava Could be felons. Oh, wait. No, that's not true Your skin can melt Um, in that case, you might just be right then it's if we have to choose melting or die from dehydration Gas melting and be quicker ultimately Mm-hmm Is the warm movie arc still coming to eFap also high green shad Hey Oh, hi. Uh, yeah, it's still recording. The problem is just the the cast for it We have to find particular times to be able to get it done. So it's just uh ongoing World anvil is free, but there's a subscription for additional features Fair enough Um got introduced to eFap through one of your friday night tights appearances Here's some change for some dog treats for rags and some i don't know subjective opinions or whatever it is You eat more. Thank you very much Glad to see some folks from friday night tights. It is a bit a bit of a different vibe over here, but hopefully not one That's too alien And thank you. Yeah, um, did alex bouldwin fridge his cinematographer? Oh, no And the cinematographer died the director was injured. Uh, yeah, well, that'll be Wait, what image is that? Oh, there's like some spider-man still scoped uh in a magazine People are mad Uh, why? Um the color grading Oh, so wait, these are actual like Final images the one on the left is the color grading and the one on the right here Uh, sorry the one on the left is the actual screenshot the one on the right is color graded differently And yeah, they are stills from the movie. Oh, I guess they don't like that. It's a little bit faded out Yeah, but that's all marvel movies though. Why are you picking on spider-man? Oh, they picked on civil war bit if I remember I know patrick Oh, yeah a bit on civil war, but then they ignore all the other movies like shot white Where was the post with shong chi about the color grading? Look at that So someone said y'all think color grading is like the most important thing of all time and then the response is I think making a movie about superheroes look realistic is the least important thing of all time like well But so then it's just up to the beholder then yeah at that point It's like they're so smug about being 100 right whenever they bloom the colors, but it is kind of like well They color coded that way on purpose I don't know Just feels like the the people who say there are no wrong answers or right answers are the ones that always say This is how to properly color correct it like. Oh, yeah Um, is rag snow in the fridge? Yeah, rag says fridge did snow before you I fucked up We don't talk about it. Is this the movie supposed to look like dark shit like uh, the zack snider movie. No I kind of like how marvel makes their colors pop Well, uh, you get different responses in different things right guardians is much more colorful than civil war, for example Oh, yeah, and civil war is not a is very grounded. Hey back Sorry, I had to take care of something. I am I am back. No problem Um, my first full live length efap was uh, this was good as an aspiring writer. This video was really odd People the good work high rags Oh, hello. Yeah, this would be an odd one if you're a aspiring writer I think so. Yeah, I feel like any writer would have listened to some of the stuff she's saying and been like wait But wait wait, but wait like over and over again This is like a direct snow temperature and moisture Uh, loved your machine for pig stream waller can't wait for house of ashes spoiler It looks like garbage gonna see if I could buy the machine for pig soundtrack now. You all gay Yeah, man, that's good stuff and uh, yeah, we're we're gearing up the check house of ashes out. I'm sure it's gonna be top notch Uh, in mask of sorrow, Diego and Alejandro both have a loved one fridge To kicks off their journeys and leads them to team up together to seek revenge. Yeah, it's a bad film Everyone knows it bad. I'll be doing that I'll be fridging people Fuck you and your fridge Joel literally fridged everyone. Oh, yeah Every death is his responsibility. So Joel just be fridging everyone Um Do you uh, this is a peace offering high rags Hello goodness How you guys tell bag in an end of acts in oh, how do you tell the beginning and end of acts in films? uh usually the end of a Uh, see so it's going to be the end of a scene in the beginning of a scene That'll be where you're looking but then the particular scenes um The most obvious break I think is between act two and three But you can make the mistake sometimes It's usually just you put everybody who's driving the store in a low point and they got to rise up to the challenge and win in the end Um, I finally act one is usually at the end when we've done our introductions for everything and things start to develop But um, I think sometimes we vaguely off at a point of no return Yeah, like you you can't really return to the situation you were in before Sometimes you draw the line visually Like, uh, I was thinking about that movie the maze runner where it's like all in one scene But in in the middle of the scene They run into the maze and the doors close behind them And even though it doesn't time jump to a new scene in that instance I would say that's the line that you draw where it's like, okay We're in act two now because the doors have literally shut behind them and there's only going forward um, sometimes you can draw the line I think, uh inside a character's head where they They make a decision they've like they observe something and then something transforms in their head and they've chosen A certain course of action and you can you can draw the line there to um You can draw it in a number of places Usually it's between like one scene and another and the preceding scene Is the the main character makes a decision to go one way and you there's no going back Uh, do any of you have a p.o box? My 10 year old has made some stuff. He wants to send Mola Fringian rags 10 year old Probably shouldn't yeah, we're not yeah We're not we're not child. We're not a child friendly thing Um as for p.o box, I'm gonna try and sort something out. Um, I don't know if either of you have anything to do with it like that I don't Maybe in the future, but not right now. Yeah um Have you played overlord one and two? I don't think so. Do you have you guys or any of you guys rather? No No, no a fun Pikmin like game. Also, you should watch hocus pocus. It's a goofy movie to watch for halloweeny also yo rags Yo, we probably will do hocus pocus at some point The good old fashioned witch movie Uh, grape mary kills samus kratos master chief Why have you put white white grape is in there? Why? Rape, I don't know if I have the power to grape them So why would you put that in there? Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, I don't yeah not doing that Next super chat. Yeah, I was gonna say it's disqualified if you put that in there, uh Don't worry, right? I think it'd be a very fun and enjoyable experience for both the writer and the reader But if you fridge my character, I'll fucking fridge you Oh god The yeah, this is bicycades too um Everyone go buy a cj plushy I assume Uh, your cj is doing a doing a plushy right now. I think fair enough Uh You mentioned you'll do a transformers movie arc in the future But I was wondering if you plan on watching the 1986 animated transformers movie If I was to watch that probably wouldn't be fat movies I doubt it's probably just like a normal animated film rather than like the transformers movies by michael bayer just fucking hilarious in lots of ways I don't know if that would be included in like an efab arc In regards to the speedster animals one of the 14 airbud movies contains pets with superpowers Including super speed 14 Yeah That's probably not even a joke. No, I think there probably is 40. Oh my goodness Um, it's like the land before time civilian It's a series before limits Super buddies get on it. I mean Sounds interesting I guess Uh, any of y'all seen avengers earth's mightiest heroes really good animated show that got cancelled after two seasons high rags and free Hello, I've not seen I have not seen it Uh rags could the terminator beat the mothman? I don't know. I don't know much about the mothman. Sure, right? If he's you can shoot him with guns, right? And the terminator is really tough. It's gonna be half of the mothman to kill terminator presumably I don't know about the mothman's powers. So Unless you can like melt metal with his mind powers. I feel like the terminator is gonna have this But maybe I'm wrong Mutually a friend holds that simpsons is bad and not funny until seasons made after the movie Is he from opposite dimension a living error? I mean Yeah, you know every bit opinion is valid. Okay I just I've never heard that one before Honestly, that is that is kind of interesting because I don't actually think I've ever heard anyone say that uh Simpsons was better after the movie than before Fuck no Um overly sarcastic productions history content is even worse. Sorry for the late super chat. I'm in rewind time. No problem. Um, and yeah, I I wouldn't even I don't I I don't I wouldn't say I have no idea how good the historical content is. So I would have a bit of concern after seeing that one, but you know, let's see Well, there's five airbud movies seven airbuddies movies and two santa paas movies that belong to the franchise Hmm geez I bet that's not even counting like the spin-offs with different animals like most valuable primate post Primate, which is basically the same thing Yeah, I they need to do one that's really strange like Like bmx with the sea urchin or something like that You have to invent how did you possibly learn that this sea urchin was really good at bmx now? There's there's your writing challenge Coming this summer a sea urchin on a Coming june something fuck you What is the weirdest power that you could call op example milk bending from misfits? Yeah, uh I don't know. Um Because you say cum bending It'd be really powerful Took me a minute to realize I just had this image in my head. Oh shit horrifying Yeah, that's I'll go with that uh What happens when you put a macguffin in a mystery box in a fridge and then throw it into a plot hole? Oh Ha ha ha got yourself a bad story at that point Uh metal and guests thoughts on god of war from the psp era and endless jess Video on kratos was always deep video if not watch them and tell us your thoughts on stream I don't know who endless jess is i'm afraid uh and I played the first of the psp games and thought it was fine um I've not much got I got much other commentary form. I'm afraid no mel played them recently so Always say recently within the last like year Metal does not like the psp games. Okay, there you go Uh watch sas red notice ruby rose villain character intentionally sociopath diehard style doesn't even have to be an efab I just want y'all to see it Probably will at some point we've got to see the the the back door man or whatever the film was called as well Any of y'all fans of the advanced war series they're putting it on the switch finally I don't know I played um, it's okay. I played dual strike and days of ruin and I liked them uh pretty decently so I think I like days of ruin better I thought I don't remember much. It was a long time ago Hmm Hatisms I would just like to share that I've noticed a strange thing about os ps chanel I'm not sure All of their musk myth series makes it onto youtube trending regardless of how it performs look at their community tab They are cataloging the foul play themselves I I've got no clue. I'm completely out of the loop on that I don't even try to appease the algorithm. I don't give a fuck. Yeah, just like You know, it feels like they're better approach, you know, just Whatever just make what you want to make hope for the best Yeah Hello efab and high rags Hello I'm planning on getting a gaming pc in a desk for it. I know nothing about computers any suggestions um Look up bills online Yeah, you gotta look up bills online Gamers nexus and line is tech tips and all those guys You know just kind of be aware of the relationship and power of one thing to the other He's going to be a bit pricey right now not as bad as it was but still kind of up there So just be aware of that um Don't forget the thermal paste if you're going to build your own just familiarize yourself with the uh Components what they do what's important what you need, you know, that sort of thing And look up some videos of people building them that'll help There's gonna be people who like make their career from Explaining how best to do this sort of thing. So just uh go shopping on youtube a little bit. I'll browsing rather um There's like a websites where you can like It'll catalog all the parts and you make a list and it'll tell you like Everything's compatible with every other part in your list. Yeah, those are really helpful Uh wait, you haven't heard a like Baldwin shot and killed a woman on set. No, no, I've heard of it I was just confused about the whole something about Who the she was the wife of whatever I don't know anything about that. I just know that you shot the dp Well, I'm the director, uh, but the director's alive as far as I know Mm-hmm. Greetings. EFAP hope all is well Do videos you cover have a length limit channel called geek volution has long videos on i-man 3 and winter soldier Love to hear your comments. Hi rex Hello Um, we probably do have a length limit. I'm not sure what it is Especially if it's a video say a video was like three hours long, but it made loads of really bad points and Supremely missed like understood some stuff We would maybe try and find a way of doing it, but yeah, I'd say We definitely don't want things to go like over an hour long video would be preferable that's really like hitting the cap because even We did what was that a 20 minute video today and it took like five or six hours For a while Doesn't youtube have a 10 hour hard limit 11 hours and 45 minutes is the stream Video length you can go as long as like I think videos 10 hours. I think is it. I thought videos can be way longer than that All right, uh, maybe just type in longest video on youtube and I'm pretty sure you can find like well No, you're right actually because I've got a playlist All right. No well 11 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds is the playlist. I have open of relaxing nintendo music It's maybe this 12 hours Yes, very to jump slash grow big too Rags look up pieces interactive soma writer started working this semi recently as creative director also high arcansoias also high rags hi Let's see Pieces interactive have released over 10 titles on pc console, blah blah blah Puzzle getting fret nice leviathan warships robo surf kill to collect as well as work for hire and title set on magica 2 civil tlcs for magica um Titan quest All right, all right something Yeah, he's still in the industry, you know working. So hopefully he gets a riding gig somewhere. Yeah Uh, if I remember correctly the girl from osp goes by red on the channel has admitted She doesn't understand love well in other videos Thanos take bad that may be why though. She doesn't understand love What does that mean? I'm just lost now. Yeah, well, no. Is she a serial killer? Well, he said don't set it very well, maybe she's just got some gaps in the knowledge about it Opinions on the future armor movie series I like a lot of them. There's four of them, right? I think there are four. Yeah Um, yeah, I like them a lot from what I remember. I like the first one the most I think the uh The triumphant return Bender's big score. I think it is right Bender's big score was the first one I think And then there was the beast with the building back Mm-hmm Oh It's quite the orgy Yeah blank and Bender's big game. That's another one. I think yeah Um Rags nice to hear you like praise 2017. Do you have thoughts on the dishonored series? Maybe by the same developers also high racks? Uh, hi, uh, I don't remember much of the first dishonored I didn't play that much and it was so long ago, but I really really like dishonored too Arcane they make some good stuff Hi, Mola is a breadcrumve trail throughout the stories Surrounding the villain far too tropey i.e. leaving the viewer to pick up the pieces Oh, do you mean like when they're not explicit about who the bad guy was you can only pick it up from details? Maybe like all along and stuff I don't know if that's tropey is it? I don't know What do you mean just the the villains revealed at the end and you could have picked it up? Had you looked at different things that were happening throughout or something because Yeah, I'm fine with both of those Though I don't know that I would describe something as a trope and therefore bad You know, yeah So I uh, I guess when they say too tropey do I think it happens too often in this case now Have any of y'all read the frictional blog post amnesia rebirth five months later and solace soma sells one million copies They address some criticisms, but not fear flashes I think I read some of it the other day funnily enough. I was just like This is on my mind because I'm out about your flash me. I'm I'm gonna be perpetually bitter about that shit Why to describe it I didn't punch you I stroked you hard I stroked I didn't give you all the office stroking And Rags fridged his snow and frungus's goo I didn't know they developed that far already Any chance for an e-fap con in future? If there's any chance that happening it's gonna be once the fucking restrictions are lifted So I have to see what's going on, but um, I'd say maybe Several five hour e-faps our stitch and adam stealing your long. No, no look. We're up to eight hours today Yeah, we're doing it Uh, if you ever talk about a global language again, look up the power language index. It's a decent list of the top lingua francais of the world frank Interesting, uh, should I watch hateful eight rating out of ten? I like it. I'd recommend it. Yeah, it's good rating out of ten. I don't know what I'd write it, though Um I don't I don't know actually I need to re-watch it Definitely not my favorite. It is but good. No, it's favorite. I don't think it's anybody's favorite There's a couple of things I didn't like in it, but there's a lot that I do like in it. So Yeah, can't quite put a number on it. Yeah, I'd have to re-watch it I really liked Kurt Russell in that movie. He was great Yeah, he was awesome. Yeah Um, I want rags's capri cum Um Oh my goodness Rags fuck my kill t1 on old t2 on old and t3 on old I don't know Just go down though. I I don't know. I don't know. You'll marry t2 on old because Fuck t1 on old and then kill all the fuck t3 on old because he's actually a good one T1 on old might kill you during it. So just kill him Well, I guess we presumed that that's not what's gonna happen, right? Is that what we're presuming? I guess it might not then we'll flip it around. Yeah, maybe that's my mistake Yeah, I'll just go with it via the movies. They're part of the ego in that case. Actually, yeah kill t3. Fuck it. But anyway, so Fuck where I kill hitler doriega and pulpot. Hi rags and friggy. Yeah, figgy gib. Oh, okay Um I I I feel like that one answers itself, you know everyone everyone understands exactly Which you choose for those three easy 100% everyone knows everyone choose the same thing Next super chat mentioned a long time ago, but still think you should do a year end episode called the fappies We'd love your vision of the oscars and the razzis for best Fappies. Yeah, we've we've talked about it before uh as a potential the thing is Like I don't know that we we see enough Brand new movies to be able to make it like a meaningful competition Because if we see let's say 10 new ones per year and a couple of random older ones and then a few maybe indie or foreign stuff And it's just like it's gonna be so limited by our perception But maybe instead we could just copy whatever the nominations from the oscars are that year and then do our own results It's possible And then throw in a couple of funny categories Anything would be better than the oscars Yeah If you don't know what's happening that is the biggest compliment you can give because that means you aren't questioning what's happening black widow director Whoa, what? You don't know what's happening. That's the biggest compliment you can give because that means you aren't questioning what's happening What? That's not a quite is it? I I can't know for sure That's what they've said I'll I'll paste it in chat so you can google it as a statement if you want to see if you can find anything, but That's pretty dumb What I learned today is that everyone who died at the end of Man of Steel got put into separate fridges Hashtag release the fridge cut. No, it's just one big fridge. They all got shoved into it Release the fridge cut Has rax seen rahul koli's joker impression also be hags Be hags I'm assuming you haven't it was on twitter. It's pretty neat You just did the some lines from the dark knight He's a he's a fun dude on twitter. I It's just funny at this point because he's he's so interacting with everything that like everyone just wants him to play everything He actually um got really pissed off at one point because Uh every time like a I guess a person of color role came up It'd be like everyone be acting that he should play them and at one point he got mad and was like Can you stop doing that loads of people are able to play these roles? and uh He's super awkward as a tweet and he was very angry because uh It'd be like someone is already playing it and then they'd be like you should play it and he's like no They're fine. They they're a good actor the fuck yeah Um random question. Do you think the cis would have a good chance of fighting against the flood since they use a droid army? We actually uh, that came up, didn't we? Yeah, I think the answer is yeah, they probably would Even taking into account the uh, the the ai infection thing logic plague, I think Uh, hello rags care for a howling match. Winner doesn't get put in the fridge No, why would I play that I don't know how to see who's got the coolest how Well, I guess rags feels like he wins by default, which is fine. I do win by default. How dare you? Um Where are you on watching batwoman also? Hi moeller. We've completed season two I believe there is soon to be a third episode of season three out So we're gonna have to start set up to record them again as well So, but yes, we complete season two Oh, you'll you'll all see eventually. You'll all see Uh dune was a two and a half hour waste of time. Damn Wow Oh boy spring daddy g what led to the addition of the nose to your pfp as I recall it was just a green spider man before, right? It's not real. I mean, it's not an additional nose. Let's say, um It's a plague doctor mask So why did you add the nose? I didn't have the nose plague doctor masks have noses. What are you talking about? um Beaks Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just a mask guys. Gosh Weirdos, thanks for giving me the incentive to finally watch the train to busan dvd burning a hole in my cabinet Also, how are you everyone not named rags? Oh Oh, hi. Hi Hey there Um, did did john fridge himself in an tc? Yes Climbed in closed the door Enough said Okay, you're not a short man today. I forgive today. Oh my god So I see the line between short and long man is somewhere between like six and eight hours All right Um Mihai me cheeks sent me hi rags Oh, I know him He died recently. The high cheeks sent me high. Oh, did he? He went to the great cheeks up high He got sent to the Mihai got sent to the high cheeks Well said Uh, hi y'all. So grape soda or juice, which would you prefer? Uh, depends on the juice I'm not too fond of grape soda or orange soda So I'm gonna go with juice because it could be a yummy juice. It could be like a pomegranate juice, you know something like that As long as it's not sunny day Mm-hmm Um I went to toilet when they were setting up the third act in the venom sequel I came back shortly after and the movie was almost over bad pacing well Pace is complex Like the idea that there's a short third act. I'd be like, I don't know that's bad on its own But uh, maybe maybe I haven't seen it. Um red is asexual makes sense. She doesn't get love Oh, I've got I got no clue. It's completely out of the loop on that one. I don't care Uh, did Hawkeye help Black Widow blow up Dracoff's daughter? Yes But I don't know that he knew that was happening because in the scene if you look at it He's like We good to go and then she's like, yes Like like like sort of like hopefully he doesn't know that I'm using it the daughter to nail this But I don't know Um, fuck mary kill fuck mary kill high rags old fringies goo I guess I'll marry high rags Uh Fuck fringies goo and kill fuck mary kills. You don't have to answer these anymore Fine fuck mary kill mother teresa elena roosevelton and frank You guys all right if I skip that one? Yeah Well, we're fucking wait what too spicy. All right. Yeah, we can skip it if you uh, yeah, we can skip if you want I'll just say they I'm sure they know the answer easy to figure out again Uh, yes, the black widow director said that in assembled on disney plus uh It was assembled Uh, it's like they're behind the scenes like they do an episode where it's like, hey, we here's how we made this So they've done it for like all the shows and black widow It's a pretty great quote said that in the interview for that is I If you don't know what's that's that's just weird. Surely you'd love it if people know exactly what's happening I mean you've communicated it very well But I would have thought I don't get that spring is wrong. He can't know 2001 until he sees it at least three times Right you see it three times ring. I'll I'll be watching it for sure. Yeah Uh for the fappies instead of movies movie critics We could do that. I still feel like we have a only a small portion of what's happening on youtube for review style content, you know, we only cover Like 20 30 people probably but yeah, I don't know So maybe maybe maybe Um, fuck mary killed the flood the reaper virus and the t-virus Why would why would the choice is bad at that point? They're all gonna. Yeah What is the reaper virus? Is it the uh indoctrination thing? I'm not sure. What's that called? um Yeah, I don't I don't know what the reaper virus is It's like when they indoctrinate you and you go old flimpy. Oh, no. Yeah, I know Yeah, I was but it's not is that a virus or is it this like a weird mind control thing? I don't know I'm not sure. I'll be qualified. It's mind control. Really. Yeah Well, yeah, they'll suck. They'll suck. Yeah, we're saying they're all bad We're in I don't know what reaper virus is but it sounds bad. It also has the word virus So two of them take over you and then the third one just turns you into one of a bazillion different things Depending on which lore you're going with so Yeah, maybe the t-virus will turn me into alice A super powered alice. Yeah, I could get yeah, the t-virus could give me superpowers It could also turn you into a hideous creature that like it's just demanding death. I don't know Well, it'll probably give me superpowers. All right, we'll let you have it Um, uh, you put on some music to set the mood, but all you have a video game soundtracks. Which do you choose? Oh music to set the mood. Um, probably Still aris Still aris is incredible. I uh, I The soundtracks what mood am I going for? Yeah, it depends if I'm going for an epic mood. I might want something else, you know. Oh, I thought you went fucking Oh In that case, I don't know what video game soundtrack I'm going with something Non-intrusive, I guess. You know what? I don't know. Um Alain why you got a lot of jazz in there Ah, yeah EFAP 166 plinkets prequels review do it Uh, we're at 150 something right now, right? We're almost on 60. I don't know about that. I don't know. No promises Yeah, I'm uh I think we will get around to them eventually. They're always there for us is alien 3 intro fridging I don't know that death's motivated to do anything and if that's what was required Other than she's just fucking sad that it happens, you know I think the film runs Like her goals run the same whether or not they were alive Because nobody on the island or planet killed her killed them necessarily was just a bad crash Um, I'll stop now. Hi rags Hello overly sarcastic made assertions that gun control is good and guns are bad in their history of the wild west The african history video is very one-sided but to be honest colonization did a lot of negatives When someone says like guns are just universally bad. I do get pretty tired. I'm just saying, okay How very juvenile of you? um She yelena knows how to function in the things she has been trained in but she has no clue how to live as a human That's from florins pew apparently No clue Didn't come across that way Yeah, that's a problem if that was true that would be more interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah You say that That's not fucking true with it Um, and that is the last super chat for today. Oh boy. Can you believe it? I know That's uh before we do any kind of heading out John do you like to tell everybody what you're up to these days? Why they should uh you know Sure, so If you don't know I make a show called rb the chief about two action figures who come to life play video games The last one I made was making fun of e3 and how cringe it is So, uh, if you want to look at my fucking stupid content, you can go to john graham on youtube And uh, I just want to say the the I remember the last time you had me on Which I really appreciated and we talked about my show at great length Um, I realized I may have like bored the piss out of some people just because like talked about myself a whole Thing and I'm very grateful for everybody's patience during that. I hope not everyone was was too bored One of my favorite episodes, dude Yeah, that's one of my favorite episodes Definitely in the top hundred I greatly appreciate you guys having me on again just to like go over a video this time. It was really fun Oh, yeah, you bet. It's always fun. Yeah, I love talking to you about writing It's uh, you you had influence on myself and free about writing when we were younger lads those kind of neat. Yeah It's really cool to like take the piss out of uh a video Yeah, especially what there's just all about writing rules that don't work Yeah Yeah, this is a great subject for me to jump in on it's an entertaining topic for me for sure Yeah, and um for those interested the link is in chat and in the description and uh, you'll see more of john Hopefully as time goes on We'll be booking you back in if they make a cruella 2 we'll be doing the We'll be doing the original sequel the 90s sequel and the sequel to cruella All in a row. Oh really it Round two everyone. I love it Um Yeah, a couple more have come in so i'll read these just quick. Uh, did you watch legion yet? No, I haven't seen legion No Uh Just as the founding fathers intended a quote from gearhead The wait gearheads uh rick and morty, right? Or am I making that up? Yes, he is. That's right Right, yeah Uh, did you see the robin williams biopic test footage that came out a few days ago? I thought it was lovely honestly No, I haven't seen anything do that But um biopic or biopic. I don't know Please biopic I have no idea. I know that I switched between them because I've never known which one it's supposed to be Um for the same time. Yeah, I that's something you're gonna want to take great care with a uh robin williams Um Yeah, that's the last one for now. So what I'll say is e-fab Is so we're on we're on saturday sunday and monday Um, I'm actually thinking I think we're gonna try and get squid game finished for you and you and metal rags, but I think sunday I think no promises on this it's gonna be sundial, buddy, but uh another e-fab movies is coming out that is in resident evil Oh Oh my god, I'm pretty sure I said what it was last time and now I'm pretending as though I didn't Are you mean tomorrow? No, he didn't say it. Don't check. All right Well, either way you got a bonus one coming right you crazy e-fappers and then you got the friday Uh next resident evil and the next one after that will be on sunday It's just a whole bunch. Um, and that's the resident evil arc that will complete You've got an additional one e-fab movie as a guarantee, but you might just have an additional two so You have lots of e-fab movies to watch in the coming week and a half It's gonna be it's gonna be something and then you've also got Me and metal gonna play through the new dark hitches game because it's multiplayer is ass But uh, you know because obviously we would have had a lot more than just two of us But this time we're not gonna go through the fucking horrible shit that was last year if you guys remember Um, I think last year we had john and luckily all right Some like that. Um, luckily the gameplay basically didn't exist. So yeah, it didn't cause that many issues. So yeah Um, and then on halloween night after the premiere of the final resident evil movie myself Fringo and rongo are gonna be playing that alien game finally e-fap halloween gaming movie flumes Um, and then of course wednesday you've got an e-fap covered about squid game The saturday you'll have an e-fap about league of extraordinary gentleman a film we watched yesterday If that's right, I don't even remember anymore um And that'll be homework you've all got homework to finish the show by wednesday But then you've also got to watch league of extraordinary gentleman by saturday um So yeah, there is a shit ton of things happening Um, oh boy. It's a busy spoopy. Wean is a busy spoof. Yes, it is So much homework. No, you you don't have to watch these things We will take care of you no matter what in terms of the events of them, but I'd recommend it It's a nice context and all um So yeah, that's that. Thank you all for joining us. It's this. Thank you so much for staying with us for the Eight and a half hours john. I appreciate it No problem Happy to do it Uh, did a certain footwear on cranium watch the final destination movies with you I have no idea what you're referencing there Not no idea, but uh, yeah, we didn't watch the whole destination Um, but yes with that. Thank you all for watching. I hope you had a good night Is there anything you guys want to say before we when we stop? Nah fucking pooped Maybe something on spooky wean when you play doctor friends Keep an eye out Okay, goodbye everybody get bridged Yeah, bye. Bye. Thank you chat. Thank you guys for watching. Thanks for donations. We'll see you next time