 My name is Molly Martin and I'm with New America. I'm the director of New America's work in Indianapolis. New America is a nonpartisan, non-profit think tank based in Washington DC. But I live here. Indianapolis has been home for almost 20 years, and my work focuses on the Midwest. Today we're coming together for the fifth in a series called COVID-19 in the Black Community. It's a partnership between New America and the Indianapolis Recorder. For those of you tuning in from across the country, the Indianapolis Recorder is one of the nation's oldest and most trusted black newspapers, and we're truly honored to have their partnership. One of the reasons we come together for this series is we know that black voices are critical to everything that we do, and they have to be included in conversations about public policy, public problem solving, and all aspects of our lives. There's some other ground rules or acknowledgments that we like to make before we have conversations about the black community here at New America, Indianapolis. One is black voices are critical. The other is systemic racism and biases impact every aspect of our personal, social, and economic lives, including our individual health. Black lives matter. Race and ethnicity are different. The black community is not a monolith, and we seek to be clear in our language. As we talk today, we're going to be talking about wealth, income inequality, and lots of things that tend to bring up words like vulnerable or marginalized, and we try to be clear about what we mean by that. Sometimes that marginalization or vulnerability comes from a larger system, sometimes it comes from personal circumstance, and I know all of my speakers will be crystal clear about that. Speaking of my speakers, I have a really motley crew, a bunch of very busy people who've taken time out to be with us today, and I could not be more thrilled. I want to take a moment to introduce them before I introduce and hand over to my excellent co-moderator. With us today, we have Dr. Brianka Merritt, who is the director of the Center for Research and Inclusion and Social Policy at the IU Public Policy Institute. I also have Mr. John Thompson. Now, Mr. John Thompson is CEO, founder, and the chair of many companies here in Indianapolis. He's the chair of the whole city to name a few, Thompson Distribution, Incorporated, and First Electric. We'll hear a little bit more about Mr. Thompson soon, Mr. Thompson. We also have Marlon Jackson, who is the founder and CEO of Revive Property Group and of the Fight for Life Foundation. We'll hear more about that soon. As an Indianapolis resident, I also have to point out that, yes, it's that Marlon Jackson who made that catch that took the Colts to the Super Bowl, and so we thank him for that as well as his social contributions. We also have Emile Iqour. Emile is going to tell us a little bit more about the Geo Foundation. He's the Executive Director of Strategic Partnerships there. He also is the driving force behind Inno Power, and Inno Power has been one of the central partners in designing this series, and so we're really happy to have Emile with us. I do want to say briefly that as we talk about wealth today, we're going to ask for your feedback. Today is not just meant to be a conversation between the people you see on screen, but a conversation between all of us. So as Angela said, we hope that you'll use the chat, participate in some polls and ask some good questions. I'd like to hand over to my excellent co-moderator and partner, Oshia Boyd, who is the editor of the Indianapolis Recorder and Indiana Minority Business Magazine to say some more about today's topic. Oshia? Thank you so much, Molly, and thank you to all the panelists for joining us today. This is for this very important conversation. The recorder is 125 years old as you mentioned, so wealth building is really important to us and our community. I'm hoping that with this interactive discussion, which I think will be really fun, because we've never done that before. So what I will hope today that we unpack wealth versus being rich, what's the difference? Because there are differences. Hopefully, we also discover ways to build wealth and how building wealth, how that impacts the black community in Indianapolis and as well as in the United States. How does that actually help us? How do we pass wealth down from generation to generation? So those are the kind of things and why wealth is so important? Why we are tapping this conversation? So those are some of the things I'm hoping that this conversation will illuminate for us today. I'm hoping, I feel like it will. I feel like we have some really big, we have some really heavy hitters here in this conversation. So we're going to have a really great discussion and I'm hopeful that people that are out there listening will ask some good questions and participate in, as Molly said, make sure you use the chat. We want to hear from you. We definitely want to make sure that you are a part of this. I feel like it's really innovative today. So thank you so much. Back to you, Molly. Thank you, Oshia. So I'm going to press on my colleagues in DC to help us with something. We want to start by understanding where you and the audience are coming to this conversation. And so we've developed a brief poll and Angela and Jason, you should see a poll appear on your screen with three questions. The first is, I feel that median black wealth is growing in this country. And you can answer yes, no, or somewhat. Two, I believe that owning a home or land is a good indicator of wealth. And then the third question is a little more specific. I'm accustomed to seeing black faces in decision-making roles in banks. And if you're having trouble with the poll at all, you can feel free to respond to those same questions in the chat. So thank you so much to my colleagues in DC. With that, as the results come in and we get some feedback on those, we do want to kick off. And I'm going to start by actually asking each of our panelists to take a moment, and Oshia, you too, because you're not getting off the hook. And tell us a little bit about your personal journey to success. So start by telling us kind of who you are. I mentioned an introduction. And then briefly tell us how you got here. Because one of our conversations today is going to be about black excellence and black pathways to multi-generational success. With that, Dr. Merritt, Brionka, I'm going to start with you first. Could you tell us a little bit about what you do and your journey? All right, thanks, Molly. So I guess I'll start by just kind of reiterating my title. I'm director of the Center for Research on Inclusion and Social Policy. Also known as Chris, Indiana University and our Affiliated Public Policy Institute. I am a native Southerner, lived in Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma. And so this is my first foray into the Midwest. I can't say that I've been just super successful in traditional terms. I am an academic and a question, curiosity, problem solver type person. So I would say just my personal journey, as you're talking about in the premise of wealth building as well, that I'm fortunate to have grown up around a black community that has been with a variety of different socioeconomic and educational levels. So I was exposed really early to kind of peak my curiosity in the area of politics and government and problem solving and disparate outcomes. And so having those opportunities very early on really helped me kind of solidify my interests, what I do. I've had quite a few setbacks in terms of, you know, pursuing higher education. I do have a PhD, but it came with a lot of bumps at one point completely, what we would call almost like flunking out of a program and kind of rebounding and being able to complete that. And similarly with my story as director, I started out kind of taking whatever kind of job I could get and working my way up over the past few years through support and just being patient, waiting for opportunities during that time. So it's kind of a very brief overview of kind of what I do and generally where I've come from. Thank you so much, Priyanka. Emil, I'm gonna come to you next. Mr. Ikeur, Emil, I'd love to hear a little bit about what you do and how you've got here. Go ahead and unmute yourself for us. Thank you so much, Molly. I was born in Lagos, Nigeria, grew up in a house of seven sisters and two brothers. And one day my parents decided it was a good idea for me to leave Nigeria and come to the States to pursue educational opportunities. So I left my family in Lagos when I was 15, moved to Daytona Beach, Florida to stay with a family I had never met before and really just got exposed to a whole lot once I came to the US. Keep in mind when I was in Nigeria, I was never called a black person, right? A job by nature, that's the tribe I'm from. And everybody's pretty much identified based on their culture. Not until I came to the US was I identified based on my skin color, right? So that was something I had to get used to, but I came to the States when I was 15 and really I remember coming to the US full of excitement. I was coming to America and everything I had watched on TV and read about the US was what I was coming to. So I came to the States and I remember getting here and a lot of my friends that I met saying that a lot of my friends didn't have a similar excitement about being in the US. A lot of my African American friends. Back then I didn't understand why I was 15. I just, I wasn't well versed in all the historical issues in the country here. But years later, I got exposed to football when I was in high school, played one year of football my senior year and up getting a scholarship to the University of Central Florida in Orlando, played four years there. Was lucky enough to get into the NFL. Ended up getting six years in the NFL. Retired, my wife is from Indianapolis and I made a promise that once I retired we're gonna move here to Indy. So moved to Indy. My son was born here. 19 years, 18 years later he graduated from Cathedral High School. He is now a student at the University of Alabama. So today what I do in education, I'm the national executive director of the Geo Foundation. We manage schools across the country but with a focus on innovation, with a focus on how do we accelerate how young people learn today? Especially young people who are not as exposed or who don't have the resources we all have. How do we make sure that we're not holding kids back but we're looking towards the future and making sure that we are pushing the needle in everything we do. So we have a dual enrollment model. All of our students are able to take college courses in high school that we pay for. Majority of our students in Gary, Indiana are graduating with AA degrees and college credits. So the whole focus of what I do as an individual, I say focus on how as a black community here in the US and also in sub-Saharan Africa, how are we doing things in a different way? How are we solving problems or creating opportunities in a different way from education to entrepreneurship? So that's really, once I got done playing football, I had to find something that gave me the same excitement about playing and I think I found it. So I wake up every day thinking of how do we do things differently today in our communities? How do we solve problems or create opportunities in a different way? Thank you so much. Thank you, Emil. I'm gonna pivot now to Mr. John Thompson. Mr. Thompson, you have quite a storied history in business and founding and academics. Tell us a little bit about your journey and what you do today. Make sure and unmute for us, Mr. Thompson. Thank you. Today I operate several businesses and then invest in many others. And typically the businesses that I invest in, I have some either board role or some role as an influencer in those businesses. But then I own and operate four companies myself. And those companies, I'm a distributor in two companies, one electrical supplies and another one mechanical supplies. And I'm selling to a fair amount to construction, to the construction industry. And then I'm also selling to institutional, industrial maintenance facilities. I have an engineering design firm and I'm an engineer by undergraduate training. And then fourthly, I manufacture and install millwork items, wood, solid surface, plastic laminate items, solid surface, you might know as Corianne, but many other manufacturers have that product other than DuPont. And so we fabricate and install those products. I'm fortunate right now, all of my companies are essential businesses so they are operating safely in a healthy and safe fashion. I moved here 35 years ago from New York City. I went to undergraduate school upstate New York at Cornell. That's what got me to New York. And while it's upstate, not in the city, many of the students are from the city, so you tend to spend a lot of time in New York City. And then between undergraduate and graduate school, I worked selling chemicals up and down the East Coast. And again, it worked out of the New York sales office, New York City sales office that eventually moved to Connecticut. And then I always knew I'd go back for an MBA. And I think you've heard that theme from the speakers today. Education is a big part of how they've gotten to where they are now. So I knew from early in my undergraduate years that I would go back for an MBA. And after three years of selling chemicals, I did that. And I went to Columbia, so again, in New York City. And after which I worked in management consulting in New York and London at McKinsey and Company, doing management consulting, mainly to process industries, chemicals, oil and gas, pulp and paper. Although I was educated in New York, I was born and raised in Baltimore. So my public school education was in Baltimore. And there I grew up very poor in financial wealth and financial resources, but very rich in family culture and neighborhoods that provided a wealth of fun growing up and opportunities for growth and advancement. So I grew up in two public housing projects at the same time. One is Lexington Terrace, which is the basis for the wire. And the other is Perkins, which is the basis for homicide life on the street. But growing up in those projects was very, very different than growing up outside of them and coming into them. So the danger that you see in those projects, I didn't have as much as someone who came in from outside. And there were a lot of resources around them that fed into young people if they took advantage of it. And my grandfather, who lived in Lexington Terrace, that's who I lived with there, my grandparents, he always encouraged me even when I got in trouble. He encouraged me. My mother, who I lived with at the same time in Perkins with my siblings, email two brothers and five sisters, not seven sisters. We lived together in Perkins. And my mother was like my grandfather, very encouraging. And there was a mission church in my community, Eastern Stars, my church today. It was St. Augustine Lutheran Church. And that pastor, Hans Goebel, really fed into and worked with young folks that wanted to work with him. And I didn't start out wanting to, we started out in a way that, it's unfortunate, but no matter what I did to him, he never gave up on, never. And eventually I came around and he had a huge impact on my life. I always planned to go to college, but he kind of opened doors to different colleges and scholarship opportunities that I may not have otherwise taken advantage of. But I knew from a young age that I was an entrepreneur. So at eight years old, I worked for myself on horses and wagons selling fruits and vegetables throughout the neighborhoods in Baltimore. And they still have that today. It's called A-Rabbi. So if you go to Baltimore, you're going to see colorful horses pulling wagons through neighborhoods loaded with fruit, vegetables, sometimes fish and flowers and other items. And I did that and the more I sold, the more I earned. And then I did other things like work at a supermarket to make money. And so even in school, even though I studied chemical engineering, I knew that I wanted to own my own business. And that's how I got to Indianapolis. I came out here to join Bill Mays and work at Mays Chemical Company with the idea of going back to New York City and opening up my own business there as a chemical distributor. And we had so much fun at Mays Chemical that when three years came in task and I stayed out here and stayed at Mays Chemical for over 17 years before I bought my first company. And so as we talk today and I'll shut up to give the next speaker a chance, you'll learn that I believe that education and entrepreneurship is certainly a way to build wealth and it's not a luck of the draw. You can plan it very carefully and ensure your success. So that's all I have to say for now. Thank you so much, Mr. Thompson. What a story, what a story. I'm gonna go next to Marlon Jackson, to Mr. Jackson to hear a little bit about his journey and you've got a couple of projects going all at once now. Tell us a little bit more about yourself. Thank you, Molly. I grew up like John in the housing projects. I was born in Youngstown, Ohio, living Briar Hill projects and moved and grew up in Western Pennsylvania, Sharon, Pennsylvania. I grew up in a toxic stress field environment. I grew up during the 80s, during the crack epidemic in America and my mother was strung out on crack, all during my time of growing up and my father was never around. I experienced a lot of neglect and high rate of poverty and moved from home to home. My mother was incarcerated in third grade and I had to go and live with my grandmother. I went from live with my grandmother back to my mother and eventually in sixth grade ended up being taken in by an uncle. Stayed with them for a few years, they divorced and I ended up living with just my aunt. Stayed with her up until I believe ninth grade and then I was taken in and lived with another uncle. Stayed there for some time and then eventually ended up living with my high school football coach. During this time, you can imagine it's kind of hard to find yourself. We didn't have as many resources as John mentioned in the housing projects that he grew up in. It was a lacking of male role models and just upstanding citizens and people that are contributing to society and not a part of the system and on welfare and not really having a path for themselves. But during that time, I've kind of found my way through athletics. I had an older brother, Elmarco, who many people would say is a much better athlete than myself. I grew up watching him and idolizing him when the football field and because of him, I grew up to have a passion for athletics, for football. Watching him lose his football career from the streets was one of the early valuable lessons that I learned and really learning your lessons in life and when you have an opportunity, take an advantage of it. And I took advantage of my opportunities in anti-value education because it was something through athletics, athletics gave me focus. And I knew that if I wanted to be on that football field, I had to have those grades as well. So it really gave me focus and it had me hone in on what was possible. And for me, when I couldn't see a way out, it was my light in a dark tunnel. In that time, I grew to go on to be an All-American in high school, receive a scholarship from the University of Michigan, go on to receive numerous accolades at the University of Michigan. As an All-American devoted as team captain, eventually graduate from the University of Michigan, go on to the NFL being drafted by the Indianapolis Colts in the first round of the NFL Draft, winning the Super Bowl, playing for Coach Tony Dungey, learning invaluable life lessons on leadership and on culture during my time with Coach Dungey. And in that same time, really finding my true passion. I was a really extremely passionate football player, but I grew to learn that I was even more passionate about underserved individuals and underserved communities. Looking back at where I had come from and everything that I had experienced and reflecting and thinking about how could I have made it through this, these obstacles with the right resources and then seeing how can I put something together through business to help those that are in the same conditions and facing the same barriers that I was able to overcome. So I began my work with the Fight for Life Foundation, founding the organization, establishing it during my playing days with the Indianapolis Colts. From the Colts, I went on to the Philadelphia Eagles, injured there, football career is over. So I went into formalizing the Fight for Life Foundation and turning it into a true nonprofit. And in my time of building out my work with social-emotional learning, developing the minds of underserved youth, I began to kind of search for another path in entrepreneurship and it led me to real estate development and a niche market where my focus is affordable housing and supportive housing solutions. A lot of the things that I needed growing up as a youth, a lot of the things that my mother needed growing up as an as an addict and trying to overcome her traumatic experiences. I've also expanded upon my entrepreneurial endeavors as well with a new joint venture called RCRA, Revive Community Regenerative Agriculture, bringing urban agriculture to the urban setting, urban community and producing high quality nutritious produce that we're getting off the ground right now. And also have my own branding company, Marlin J-28, which I do public speaking through as well. But for me, I'm very purpose driven. Everything that I've been able to overcome, I know that I've only been able to do it through Jesus Christ. So in coming from where I've come from and being where I am, it's not my life, it's for a greater purpose and everything that I've experienced is for a greater purpose. And I live that way with that intention each and every day. And now, as I have my own family, my wife, Nikki and my boys, Camden, Kingston and Cash, I think about legacy and not just a legacy of my family but the other young black and brown, fit male and females that are growing up and providing opportunity for them as well. Thank you so much, Marlin. Oshia, we're gonna come to you for the big finish. And I think you are also not originally from Indianapolis. This might be the first panel we've had where we have a lot of who've moved to town and transplanted. So Oshia, tell us a little bit about your journey. Well, I don't know how I can follow Marlin. I don't know how I can follow that. That was, yeah. Now I feel like, man, I haven't done much in my life. And by the way, Dr. Mary, I see we are twinning here. I just realized as I was sitting there looking at you, we are actually twinning. I was gonna wear red in my red lipstick by changing my mind. So we would have been exact twins. Well, I've been in journalism now for about 24 years. Started out, well, I knew I wanted to be a journalist in elementary school. So started out in high school in yearbook, newspaper, went to college, actually met an editor of the newspaper. I'm from Muncie, originally, Muncie, Indiana originally. So I met the editor at high school at a Rotary Club luncheon. Our econ class won a Rotary Club competition and we got to go to lunch with the Rotary Club. So anyway, met him and he, and I told him I had interest in journalism. He gave me this card and said, give him a call. Being a senior, I was a little nervous. I didn't do it. Never, then fast forward a couple of years. He's one of my instructors in J school, journalism school. So I walked up to him one day and I said, hey, I met you a few years back and you told me I might be able to get a job at the paper. And he said, oh yeah. So I got a job. I started being a copy clerk. That position no longer exists, exists, exists. Gosh, I couldn't get that word out in this industry anymore. It's, so I started out doing news briefs, making coffee. I actually made coffee for people starting out in my career. We'll come in every day about for make coffee and start doing news briefs. Did obituaries, local stats in the newspaper. Eventually got to write a couple of stories and I thought that was really big when I got to write a couple articles and saw my name in the paper and tell everyone I know in my family. I'm in the paper now, work at the paper. Fast forward a couple of years. My first full-time job was actually at the recorder. So I started at the recorder as a full-time reporter. And at that time I was so very proud to work at a black-owned newspaper. I'm not from Indianapolis originally, like I said. So I'm from Monty and it's close enough where we would hear commercials for the recorder. So I knew of the recorder's existence. I knew how prestigious it was. So to finally get there, I thought, oh yeah, I'm here now. But I eventually did leave. I went back to my first newspaper and covered education for about eight years. Did a couple other things there. Then I came and I worked at Angie's List in their magazine for their magazine for a few years. Then I ended up coming back to the recorder as editor. So actually my life has kind of been recorder and star-press pretty much my career. I've kind of stayed in two different places. So came back as editor and for me, it was the perfect opportunity to blend two of the things I'm very passionate about. I'm very passionate about a lot. But I'm very passionate about black people. And I'm very passionate about journalism. I'm very passionate about doing excellent journalism. And I felt this was the opportunity for me to have an impact on our community, to actually educate our people, to the three things I came with when I started was, our story should educate, empower and engage readers. So if we don't do all of those, a story should at least do one of those or two of those. But that's my goal is that we always educate, educate, empower, and engage. So that we're given our community vital information, things they need. And also to continue the legacy of this 125-year-old newspaper. That's very important to me is to make sure that we have a standard of excellence, not just journalism, but as a black-owned business as well. So when people look at the recorder, they can say, okay, I know they are actually holding themselves to a higher standard. I have a pretty high standard when it comes to what we put in the paper. So that's kind of my journey. And I'm just so very passionate about working at this newspaper. I don't think people in our community often understand how lucky we are, how blessed we are to have this paper. Every community does not have it. We are the fourth oldest. So that's saying something if we're the fourth oldest. Cause when we have four that are this old. So, and like I said, I really want to empower our people, our community, give them information, help them understand things like this, help us navigate this world, help us understand why walk is important, how to get there. These are the things that excite me about working at the recorder, the things I couldn't do if I worked for other publications. Thank you so much, Ashiya. And thank you everyone for taking time to share your journey. The reason we think this matters, even in the face of a pressing national crisis is we want to make sure that conversations about the recovery and the resilience after COVID-19, don't just focus on deficit language, which is something that's come up in prior programs that we've done with the ND recorder. We want to make sure that we tell stories of excellence and specifically tell stories of black excellence. So we can show the diversity of pathways to stability and multi-generational advancement. And we have a certainly interesting cross-section of stories here on screen with me today. One thing that stuck out to me while we were listening is all of you made some very deliberate decisions about the legacy you wanted to leave for your communities, for your children, even for publications like the recorder. And that requires a certain level of commitment but also a certain level of barrier dodging. I want to come to Brianna for a little bit because I want to dig in on some of the research about what we know about barriers. We'll ask some of you about the personal barriers you're encountered, but there are some systemic challenges that black residents tend to face, although again, it's not a monolith, when they're trying to accumulate wealth. So Brianka, first I'm going to start with the question, what is wealth from an academic perspective? We've got some feedback from the audience. We've heard some people touch on it. What is wealth as you would define it? I mean, I think wealth is, and I will not use a super academic phrasing around this, but I really think it's comfort. It's the ability to not worry about your current situation financially. I think it's about your parents or forbearers not having to worry about it and your children not having to worry about it. So it's both multi-generational. I think wealth with a single person is a really thing. It's truly about what you've either built on or what you're building for somebody else, both financially in terms of assets and our things as well. When we talk about how to measure that, Brianka, because that's tricky. There are lots of non-monetary measures of wealth. We know that income is only one part of it and you've heard stories of kind of greater stability and mobility across all of your paths. What are some of the indicators that when we look to, when we want to talk about kind of the state of black wealth in Indiana, in the country, in Marion County? Yeah, so Greg, I think it's tricky because I think in the black community, kind of to your point earlier, is that in terms of the barriers that we've had to face collectively in the US, that sometimes our definitions of wealth are a little different. And so I think kind of traditionally across racial ethnic groups, we do look at things like home ownership. We look at things like assets, things that might be in an IRA or a 401k or things like that that are both liquid as well as something that can be kind of built upon and add to over time. We also tend to focus on things that of course are not totally disposable. So for example, we don't look at things like car ownership but we would look at something that's a little more sustainable. Again, some of the problems with that is when we think about kind of what that means across communities is that of course it is skewed toward different types of opportunities, policies, et cetera that consistently kind of advantage one group. In this case, white Americans historically, then it does some of our black and brown communities here. So when we talk about kind of those historical impacts, some of those are policies and practices that are just based in institutional racism. Some of them are policies that are colored a lot by implicit bias. Some of it is that there's a long way to catch up. White Americans have been able and permitted to develop wealth through ownership for a longer amount of time. And so what we know is that the net worth of the typical white family in 2016 was about $171,000 and the net worth of the typical black family in 2016 was $17,000. So it's about a 10 times difference. That's a huge difference. Another measure that I've seen, and this speaks I think to some of the research that you do, is the value of home. The value, the median value of homes in predominantly black neighborhoods, how much ownership of these kind of less disposable assets that black families are kind of allowed to acquire. What have you seen in your research that speaks to home value in black America versus white America? Sure, I think overall, most of us probably know that black home ownership rates are lower than white home ownership rates, but even where we live certainly affects the value of our home. And a lot of those things aren't things that we can really control. So a lot of you might be familiar with the concept of redlining and the fact that decades and decades ago, there were policies in place to kind of concentrate black individuals and households in particular areas. Those areas usually had real estate apps and from homes that was of lower value. It might have been in a floodplain. It might have been in a place that was generally not desirable by other folks. And so what happens is over time, we see concentrations of black people in particular neighborhoods. What we've found and what other folks have found nationally as well is that it's not about the fact that black neighborhoods right now might have things like fewer amenities that lower their home value. It's purely the fact that the people who live there are black and it makes it less desirable for others to want to move in. So when we see those trends, I think it's important to note, I think you pointed this out very early on, Molly, is that with the words that we're using today, a lot of times we conflate disadvantaged and low income with being black, but black homeowners have been in a lot of these neighborhoods, again, for 60, 70 years, they've established a community there. So these aren't people who are kind of just scrapping for whatever, but those folks who are scrapping for whatever, quote unquote, are part of their families and part of their community as well. So we see this very diverse with regard to a lot of educational status, income being concentrated in these communities, but regardless of what's there and who lives there, we don't see the same amount of attention being focused on assets in terms of how to build up the neighborhood. So we don't see investment strategically, particularly in Indianapolis around things like grocery stores and other opportunities, having school systems that aren't charter schools, like one of the neighborhood schools and a lot of Indianapolis neighborhoods that are predominantly black too. So not only do we see kind of our home valuation being lower, we're also not seeing the same levels of investment that we might see in comparable neighborhoods where folks might be predominantly white. I have a question. So as we're talking about home ownership in neighborhoods and individuals, but how does that then relate to the community at large? How does the community generate wealth if you are living in a neighborhood that you've been there for 50, 60 years, but your property values are not the same simply because this is a black neighborhood. So then how does this affect community wealth? Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's about you're just aggregating what an individual is experiencing. So I think to your point, it's community wealth in terms of assets, homes, et cetera, but it's community wealth in terms of why I said some of these other amenities. We don't usually think of school as an amenity, but yeah, being able to go around the corner and know that your child is going to get an education from an A-rated school in the state of Indiana is an amenity and we don't have that. So to your point about community wealth, it's not just kind of a one-time thing with homes. It's how it affects different types of opportunities in the community and then how that leads over into kids and future generations staying in that neighborhood and opportunities that they have as well. So it's an individual thing, but if multiple individuals are experiencing the same things, that certainly is a community indicator for wealth too. That's a great question, Oshia. And actually a question back to all of you, to everyone on the panel. Does anything make you especially nervous? You're in what Brianka just said about the disparity and looking around at the financial impact that COVID-19 is having on your neighbors, your friends, your family, on your readers, your clients. So I'm gonna look for kind of nodding heads and thumbs-ups to see who wants to jump in. What are you worried about? Marlon, you look like you might have something to share. Yeah, I mean, I'm worried about our youth, you know, where, you know, school has been a place to get away. Maybe it's a place where you get two meals, two meals a day. And now that environment is taken away from you. Not only is that environment taken away from you as a safe haven, but now you don't have access to technology. You don't have the Chromebook. You don't have the internet access. So there's no e-learning. So the gap is widening. The margin is increasing with our children continuing to fall behind because there are already, you know, negative circumstances in terms of different social determinants of health and adverse childhood experiences. And what COVID-19 is doing is just adding to what's already been existing in our community and making it even harder for us to acquire and obtain wealth and build a legacy for the young people coming up behind us. And, you know, right now, the gap is just widening, you know, because of COVID-19 and the lack of resources. And then even with, you know, institutions that are putting together these different funds, you know, the funds aren't being administered. They're sitting in the funds, trying to figure out what to do while people are in need of funds right now immediately. You know, so the more we wait and the less action taken, you know, the more our children are at risk of going down the wrong path because they don't have that stability that school can provide, even if it may not be the best environment, most times it's better than what's going on at home. That really underlines Marlin. I think what Oshia and Brianka were just saying about school is an amenity and school is a great wealth contributor. All of you talked about education as a pathway, but also the kind of structural and personal and social stability that schools provide. So one question that's come in from the audience and John, I'm gonna come to you is about at a time like this during COVID-19 when you know that young people who were previously at risk are at greater risk and could be losing their opportunity to break a cycle of lack of wealth or a cycle of poverty and we're gonna maintain their parents' current level of income and wealth. How do you reach back into the places you came from or reach over into neighborhoods that are having a hard time? John, do you ever go back home to Baltimore? Do you mentor? Do you... How would you recommend people reach back or reach out to folks and kids in need? You know, I'll make several comments. You raise a point that covers a very, very wide spectrum. So first off, I do go back to Baltimore even though I grew up in housing... John, I think we lost you. Could you hit unmute, please? Okay, yeah. I grew up in housing projects and you obviously don't own them. They're public. They're owned by the city that you live in. But at any rate, we had a sense of ownership and belonging. So in both my housing projects, we have a reunion every year. And so I'm very active, actively involved in that reunion. In one case, the project is still there. So I go back to that project. And then in the other case, while the project is not there, we do it in that neighborhood. So I'm back in Baltimore for that. And then my family is still there. I have siblings. The vast majority of my family is in Baltimore. So that gets me back. And my family, fortunately, we took advantage of education. And so the family, while we, for the most part moved up, we have not completely. So some, you know, we provide help to family, but also to the neighborhood that I grew up in. So one, I'm a big sponsor of our reunions. And two, I work with the young folks in those communities through various organizations that still exist there. And a lot of my friends who are still active in those communities bring me back for all kinds of things throughout the year because they're still very active in those communities. Even though they may not live there, my brother still, you know, goes into those communities a lot. And he keeps me very actively involved. But that's just one part of the equation. I mean, because I'm from Baltimore, doesn't mean that I have to help those in Baltimore. I'm responsible to help those wherever I am. So my original company that I bought, it's at 22nd in college, which is in a heavy black neighborhood in this city. Neighborhood's changing now, but still I've been in that neighborhood for 18 years. So a lot of what I do to help, I do it right here in Indianapolis where tremendous help is needed in the black community. One of the ways, several of the ways that I find you can be more effective is working through professional organizations. So my effort is to get back to organizations that are then helping and giving and doing in those communities. And so United Way, I find to be a broad umbrella that helps all of them in many cases. But then there are others that are right there, many communities providing job training and other things like the Indianapolis Urban League, an affiliate of the National Urban League. And so I can give time, talent and treasure there and have a major impact through an organization that really have a structured approach to giving back. Same with a crystalmore house that's working with young people. And so on this panel, I think everyone here have benefited from education. Two of our panelists have used education to also advance in sports. And so when I'm in an inner city environment I know I can reach and encourage young people through sports and particularly young black boys who are looking for some structured way of getting out of the streets. I mean, someone in the chat sent the chat about mentoring, I believe heavily in mentoring. And so I try to work with organizations that mentor and if you're gonna mentor young folks that's even better for me. So a couple of examples of mentoring. I'm president of the Crossroads of America Scout Council and we cover central Indiana from the Ohio border to the Illinois border. 15, 16 counties come under Crossroads. I'm chairman of the board, president of the board which is like chairman of the organization. And to me, that's the best mentoring organization in the country if you're gonna mentor young people. It was just boys and now it's boys and girls. I was a Boy Scout for many years. Cub Scout and Boy Scout made a big difference in my life. And I believe that we have to make time to mentor. We have to make time to mentor. And if we don't, the gangs, they make plenty of time. They'll never turn a young person down. The gangs have time for. You wanna learn how to steal the car. Come on, I will show you how to steal the car, how to rob that person, how to rob that house, how to steal this. You've been thrown out of your house. You can live with me. You hungry, I'll feed you. Gangs will do all that. And they'll do it personally, hands-on. And I believe that we have a responsibility to do that and give back wherever we are. It's kinda like church. I mentioned St. Augustine Lutheran Church helping me in Baltimore. But when I joined church and give back to church, it's Eastern Star in Indianapolis, Indiana who is, that's where I live today while they feed me from a Christ biblical standpoint. I try to pump money into Eastern Star that it can then put back into the community. And Pastor Johnson does better job of that than anyone given back in the community where it is needed. And so I know young folks want a better way. So when I say give to Crystal Moore House, Marcus Chapman over there and others, Willie J, they working with young people to box. And those young guys, they go across the Midwest boxing and they're not getting any trouble. They're very active in their boxing. And some of them have gone on to the pros, but all of them go on to a structured and better life. So I believe in giving back time, talent and treasure, all three to the community and doing it in a big and major way, but doing it in a structured way that helps. And so then in opening and starting businesses, you also have that opportunity. I'll say this and then I'll let someone else speak, but I got an award from the city called the tease me award. And to make a catching, she owns a tea shop, 22nd Street between Talbot and Delaware. And prior to that, Wayne owned that, he founded that tea shop. And back then, back in 2007, eight, nine, I would go in every Saturday from 10 to two. People would always say, John, I want you to mentor me. I need some advice. And it was overwhelming because they'd want to do lunch and it's only five lunch meetings a week that you can have. And so I said, well, I'll do 10 to two on Saturday, first come, first serve, come on in to tease me and we'll sit down, have cup of tea and talk. And I haven't gone back to that. I did it for about four years. What I do now, when a person want to meet, I'll say meet me at tease me. Of course, we're all shut down now with our social distancing and maybe I'll go in at two, three, four in the afternoon through the week, which is just a couple blocks, four or five blocks from my office. And I can sit down and meet with people that want to talk about how they might structure and pursue business opportunities. I have so much more to say, but this isn't the John Thompson hour. So I'll let someone else speak. Well, I think everyone's enjoying the John Thompson hour. I do want to give a brief pause. And Brown, I know that you have to speak at an engagement. Is there anything you'd like to share about well-filling community support, communal support before you have to leave us? Yeah, I think someone made a good point. I mean, we keep talking about education quite a bit. And I wanted to see, especially from the other speakers about generational differences as well. I think historically, there's been a lot of focus on the business community as a primary way of building wealth. So you see a lot of folks, especially younger people, trying to aspire to own multiple businesses. And I think that's kind of how we traditionally classify not just wealth building, but success. And I think, again, given the slate of panelists that we have, similar to Ms. Boyd, I also started off trying to be a journalist when I grew up too. And so I think culturally, because we were so far behind for so many years in different areas that there has not been, there was such a concerted opportunity, particularly in the 70s, with more integration to kind of focus on getting a business degree, going into business. But I think revisiting this conversation as someone's in the chat about what it means for teachers. What does it mean to do other types of professional, pursue other professional opportunities as a means of, quote, success or a way to get wealth? And I think the wealth conversation can sometimes get cloudy by that. So I think with a lot of millennials and even some Gen Zers, there's more of a focus on pursuing what you care about. And sometimes that the expense of wealth, particularly in the short term, because I think a lot of younger folks are more interested in this idea of being at peace with what they're doing and pursuing something they love rather than necessarily having the wealth or having the financial success. So I think we've seen a lot of those shifts over time, including, but there's also kind of, as we talked about these systemic things, how that's worked against us. So I think things like a lot of black folks who didn't have an education or a college degree will pursue things like manufacturing or other types of jobs. But obviously, like when we talk about the decline in manufacturing occupying. I think we may have lost Priyanka for a minute. We'll give her a second, see if she comes back in. Well, I think if I can interject, I think we've, from Mr. Thompson and Ms. Merritt, we're kind of unpacking a lot here. I think the idea of when we started, Priyanka said, well, it's comfort, she'll describe it as comfort. And I think for so many of us, we think of comfort in the terms of money, have enough money to buy my needs and then my wants is comfort. And then, and I like what Mr. Thompson was talking about when he was, we were talking about mentoring and what he says, so many things there. He supported a black owned business and going to tease me. He was mentoring young people. So I think it's like, well-building seems to be like all of these things maybe. Is that, does anyone have any, I see you shaking your head, emails, am I anywhere near that this is kind of what well-building is, is we have to get all these things together to actually create wealth for our family, our sales, as well as our community. Totally agree. I think the common denominator with the panelists on here is we all started from zero, right? We all started our careers going as college and getting a job and everything. We started from zero. We didn't have anything passed down to us as far as inheritance or even social capital. If we look back at all of our careers and say, how great would it have been if we had somebody who had connections to open some doors for us, right? Or if we inherited a home that our parents passed down to us so we can have and start building our careers with. So I think for us and for me especially, is looking to make sure that my son has that that I hand down to him. I hand down some connections, some social capital. I also hand down a home that he can start out with and also some dollars in an account somewhere for him. In this country, I think a lot of Americans, I think take everything for granted. I think so much. I come from a country where there's no social, no social nets. I mean, there's no safety nets. There's a cash based economy. If you can't afford it, you can't buy it. There's not a whole lot of credit available for you to do anything with. So when we look at wealth and we look at how generationally things have been passed down in certain cultures in Nigeria and Africa, it's based on what's passed down from your parents. What are your parents, one of your parents given to you? If it's knowledge, if it's connections, if it's land, in most cases, land as wealth. And then here in the U.S., it's saying that as long as you are, you have the thinking or the feeling that you are one connection away or you're one class away from making it all, one loan away from it. What happens is so many young black males especially don't have that level of hope. So many of them don't have those connections. Some of them don't have the aspirations to say, look, all I have to do is pass this class and I'm there because those opportunities don't exist today. So as we have this conversation, I think a lot of what we can neglect is the complexity of the black community. Meaning this, most of us, when we say the black community, we automatically relate to a portion of town that may not be doing as well as far as people, upper mobility is not accessible. And we say that's the black community, right? The problem with that is we have communities that the overwhelming mindset is, let me work hard or do what I have to do so I can get out of this community. When you meet young people today, they wanna go to school, get a degree or get a job so they can get out. Well, if everybody's living in that community, if everybody's looking to get out and everybody's aspiring to get out, how can we ever build? Because there's a lack of talent now, there's a lack of desire to build because everybody's doing their part to get out of that community. So a lot of times when I get into these conversations, we ignore the complexity of our community. That a lot of times most of the people looking to solve problems in certain communities, black communities, don't stay in those communities, haven't stayed in those communities in years. So as black people also, we have to be careful that as we look to solve problems, as we look to relate to identify with a community because the majority of people in that community look like us, that we also don't come in and tell people what to do all the time. We have to come in and understand the true complexity and really look at problem solving in a new way. The old way we all know, the old way just didn't work. We see the results from the old way. So today with COVID-19, I see so many people who are working so hard, two jobs. We know my wife and I know a single mom who was working a job, was also driving as a Uber driver. Working hard, doing everything we've told her to do, and only for today with COVID and three weeks shutdown where everything has come crashing down. So what I see with COVID is I just see so many people who have given their life, who worked so hard on a daily basis, who have brought in it to the dream of if you work hard and believe in yourself, you can achieve. And all of those people today are struggling and trying to survive because the system has failed them. So as I look at that and say, how do we rebuild things like how do we engage young people in school today and create an environment and education that really equips people with the skills to make it? One thing I learned from Nigeria, my parents told me there was Nigeria is a British colony, right? My parents said to me at the very young age that, hey, look, for you to make it, you have to learn the British system. This is not our system, right? So the school we went to were based in the British system, that's everywhere in Nigeria. So the understanding for most of the people from Nigeria is education is the way out because for us to make it, we have to learn the system we have to live in. And I think the same thing goes for here in the US is we have to communicate with young people that in order for them to generate wealth or achieve success, they have to learn the system that they live in and how to master that system. And I've been around school enough, I work in schools every day, and we miss the boat when it comes to that. And we miss the boat when it comes to communicating in the next step and really teaching young people how to excel in this system. And a lot of times we try to get young people through with a mindset of just making it. And I'm sure Mr. Thompson and Marlon will tell you this is, we were able to make it because we believed that to make it, we had to work 10 times harder. Unfortunately, that message is not trickling down to young people today to let them know that for you to achieve success, you have to work 10 times harder. I'll be willing to work 10 times harder. And you still might not be successful because that just gives you a chance to be successful. It doesn't guarantee success. So I just look at all of us today and say we all started from zero. And I know Marlon and Mr. Thompson, what would life be like if you had something given to you, handed down to you from a parent or from an uncle to get you started? Would you be way further ahead today than where you are? And just looking at those things and say, it's amazing to me that I meet so many people the same way, right? So many people who started from zero, but we just seem to accept that and just seem to look at it as something that we can overcome. But that's not the norm. You are not supposed to start from zero in this country. So I'll be quiet for a second, sorry. Yeah, I have to hop off, but I did want to add a thank you for your point. So I would like to say that I can't say I didn't come from anything, but that I came from stability, not wealth, but stability and I think there's a difference there. And just kind of highlighting what that looks like. So both of my parents went to college, but on my mother's side, she comes from, I mean, she grew up in a housing project as well and from sharecroppers. So people, a lot of them historically could not read. I know I have a great grandfather who lost a lot of land because he just could not read. So there's that part. And then on my dad's side, my great grandfather actually started his own real estate company in Louisiana who are the first real estate brokers there. Unfortunately, when we think about kind of the differences, the person who actually gave him the loan to start that company, I went to school with his great granddaughter. She is able to pursue a career as kind of an artist, whereas like me and my brother still have student loans that we have to pay off. So even though on paper it looked like, we should have kind of had more wealth and made it will do more things. And maybe we are ahead and maybe some other folks who identify as black in the US compared to people who are white, who should have been in a slimmer position. We're still not nearly as close to being as where we could be. So I think in terms of how we manifest some of that, I think sometimes stability can be better than wealth or equal to, but certainly to your point, Emile, I think wealth is a thing that really can kind of take you to the next level to pursue things that you otherwise might not. So I'll jump off, Molly, since I'm going to go a bit. Oh, there we go. I do want to swing to Marlon on that. Emile asked and Brianka just pointed out, sometimes even a generation's worth of success isn't enough to overcome some of the systemic barriers and structural issues. And Emile pointed out, sometimes you have to work twice, three times as hard to get half as far the way that the system has been set up. What would you say to Brianka's point and to Emile's point that sometimes you can do all the right things and work really hard and maybe even have some assets on your side that still doesn't work out? Because to me it's not about the assets. The assets are nice. The resources are nice, it's not gonna hand them to you. But it doesn't matter if you don't have the knowledge to take care of those resources and maximize those resources. So like me, the key component to well is knowledge and understanding. When Emile said it is, what I felt, I've learned about the system that we live in in America and I've been able to navigate the system with my understanding and carve out my own path in it because I understand how it operates and understand how it functions. And I know that it pays more dividends to be an owner versus a consumer. So everything that I do, I try to make sure that I'm on the ownership side and I try to make sure that I'm having assets and generating revenue versus having a bunch of expenditures and having more money going out. It's all about what's coming in because you can have a high value when it comes to dollars but it doesn't matter if you have just as much going out. How are you maximizing and holding on to what you do have? And then the knowledge and understanding of not just the system monetarily, but what Bianca said as well, just in terms of the stability in a household and family, that pays so much dividends in terms of that social, emotional capital where I'm able to cope and deal with the stressors of my life so I don't fold under the pressure because I've learned this on a day-to-day basis within the household that I live within. So for me and every area, relationships, money, systems, it's all about your knowledge and understanding because it doesn't matter how much money you make or how many resources you have if you don't have the knowledge to maximize those things and invest and bring dividends to yourself. And I think that sometimes we overlook the fact that knowledge is power and the mind is our most valuable asset. We have to train our minds and how we think and how we react and how we behave so that we can manifest what we want to see occur in our lives, you know? And in my path, I've realized that manifestation is possible through knowledge and understanding and self-discipline and self-control and through my work ethic. And I found that with work ethic and knowledge, I can create my own pathway and carve out whatever I want to have and see in this world. And those are the things that I try to pass on and teach not only to my boys, you know, my sons have all three, I have three boys, six, four and two. And for me, it's never too early to start learning. And I feel like every encounter, everything that we do on a day-to-day basis is an opportunity for learning as a teaching moment. And when I engage with youth and I go to schools and I work with them in the high school and elementary level, every encounter is real. And it could be because it's all an opportunity for learning and you never know, you know, when that light is gonna turn on for someone or when you're gonna plant that seed and when it's going to take root and sprout up and they get it and they understand it, you know? But it is us having this knowledge for ourselves and making sure that we are passing it on to others. For me, it's how we build generational community wealth. It sounds like a lot of what everyone is talking about is education. Education is very important, having the knowledge and having the power. But what you're talking about too, Marlon, is financial literacy. Yes, life, it's a big part of all the things tied in together, but financial literacy, I often feel like we're missing that component of, as Emile said earlier, how things work together, knowing the system. We don't know the system, if we don't know how to navigate, as Bianca said, her grandfather had land but couldn't read. So he was, people were able to take the land from him. So it's about navigating the system in that financial literacy component that we need to build wealth. How do we help educate people on that piece? Because everyone wants the money, as you say, if you're spending what you're bringing in, you're not creating, you may have money, but you're not creating wealth. How do we change that mindset from consumers to producers? Well, I think it's the type of looking in the community and seeing where resources exist. For me, one of the people that organization I think about is INHP and their initiative with home ownership, and how they're strategic about bringing folks along is through education, right? And they're bringing you to the table with lenders, but they're educating you first on understanding credit, understanding budgeting, all of these components that you need to have in place for what you actually go to the table for ownership. It's filling your mind up with the knowledge to be able to function once you do have the asset. And I think that's what we fall behind. I know just as a former professional athlete, and when I was a young athlete, and not having a role model to teach me the fundamentals of economics and financial literacy, I made numerous mistakes, but I made sure that I've been the person that doesn't repeat the mistakes. I learned my lessons and I take my lumps and I move on and go forward with those lessons. But as individuals in our community, we have to look and see what resources are out here for us to tap into to help us gain and attain the knowledge that we desire to get to where we want to be in terms of wealth. I have a question about financial literacy and kind of the knowledge required, because obviously I would agree with both of you, I think better literacy, better training, and also better representation in financial institutions and educational institutions of black leaders. And we've seen a couple of comments in the thread about the importance of supporting black educators so that they don't leave and paying the well so that they don't leave. And then in our poll earlier in the program, only 2% of our attendees have really ever seen a black leader with financial decision-making power to bank or to lender. So could the panelists reflect back to me, how do you change the infrastructure and teach about kind of the existing broken infrastructure? Right, we're teaching about a system that is kind of broken and stacked against lots of folks, a system that has things like redlining and discriminatory practices. So do you have ideas for teaching around the broken structure? And what are your ideas for changing the broken structure? And I also ask our folks in chat to weigh in. Ossia, can I start with you? Sure. Well, I think as far as teaching goes, I definitely think part of my education came definitely from my dad. My dad talked about, he didn't want us to learn when he did in his 20s about being frugal, about not going out and spending all your money as soon as you get it, about putting up money, saving it for a rainy day. These kinds of things were passed down to me. I passed them down to my son. I passed them down to my daughter. But I think sometimes we're doing that part, but we don't talk about the investment piece. The actual, how do you invest in businesses? How do you go and buy stock? You know, we talk about certain things that we haven't got to the other part yet. That is where we start really building and we talk about ownership, creating your own business and passing that down. I think sometimes we're, all we wanna do is work hard, go to work, work hard, buy a house and we think we've done it. That's what we've done and we can pass that house down, but we don't think about what happens when your house is in disrepair and you need to get your house fixed. Those kinds of things, I think sometimes we're talking big picture, but we haven't gotten to the details of really wealth building. So I think that's what we have to start thinking about as we talk about wealth. And I don't know if any of you guys now, it's just all you guys can speak to, how do we get to sharing the details of wealth building and wealth creating versus the big picture? Cause I think many of us have the idea, the big picture, but it's those getting there, the process part that we often are missing. And I'll start with you, Mr. Thompson, since you may have some of the answers to my question. Well, yeah, that's a topic that I love to talk about, really. So I'm certainly glad you directed it to me. And I'll start by saying a point you made about financial literacy. It's very important. I really think they need to start teaching it in kindergarten, preschool on up. We wait too late to teach that. But when I got to Indianapolis, I was in debt. I had no savings. I came out here to take a job that paid a fraction of what I made in New York City. I made good money in New York, but I was in my 20s and I partied it up and I did not have it. But I had a tremendous amount of knowledge, a lot of financial literacy going to Columbia Business School and I had it from even before Columbia. But some key points I'll make and we have limited time. I own and operate four companies. Those companies were originally bought from five different companies. So that's how they were created. One looks like it started organically, but it started out of the first company that I bought. And so I went to a white-owned bank that I happened to be on the board of. Now I was not on the board of that bank at that time, but I called up Mickey Mauer, who's a local business guy, and let him know what my idea was and what business I was trying to buy. And two days later, Mickey said, you got the money. And he would loan me the money. So I had some of my own money. I had a lot of success at May's Chemical, but I didn't have to use my money. I used bank money and I bought the business the same way you buy a house. And you might say, well, well, what did you know about the business? Well, the business distributed pipe valves and fittings and related products. Well, I knew how to distribute products. That's what we did at May's Chemical. We distributed chemicals, but distributing and selling to professional organizations, I knew how to do that. So I had the knowledge. I had the knowledge. So that's what Mylon was talking about, the knowledge I had it. And so I went to the bank and got the money. And I knew the business had the cash flow already that I needed to pay the debt. So all I had to do was add to the cash flow by bringing in additional customers. And calling on additional, I knew how to sell. I had been selling all my life. So I knew how to sell and bring in new customers. And I had the products and the supply lines because the company I bought had authorized distributorships that it would take me years to get, but I bought the company and then paid the bank back in about 60 days. You know, and, you know, put money in my pocket. And then later on bought another company. Now, the one thing I didn't do was go out and load up debt on a bunch of credit cards, buying a whole bunch of stuff that I did not need to impress a bunch of people that I do not like and that don't like me. I mean, and taking trips that I can't afford, I did not do that. And that's financial literacy. If I put it on a credit card, no matter how much it is, when that bill comes due, I'm paying the statement balance because I'm paying no interest. I'm not paying interest. Now I do pay interest on bank loans that I borrowed the money to buy a company. And when I buy the company, the company have cash flow to pay the employees, pay the rent and pay the bank. And then pay the vendors to buy the products that I need. And then the balance I can put in my pocket or I have control over doing what I want with. But buying businesses you can buy them like you buy a house. It requires knowledge though. Don't just go out buying a business. You gotta make sure you understand the cash flow and how you're gonna enhance that cash flow to repay that debt. Someone made a comment earlier. I think it was Brianka before she left about in the 70s, we studied business and to own businesses. In the 70s and the 60s, black folks, we emphasized education and encouraged our kids to get an education. But we often talked about a few careers. And that might've been good then, but that's limiting. You should be a doctor, lawyer, nurse, teacher. It was somewhat chauvinistic because you're directing the girls to be nurses and teachers and the boys to be doctors and lawyers when all four can be whatever they want in that mix. But you're talking about that from the standpoint of building wealth. You can look at the Forbes 400, the richest 400 people in the world. And you can look at it this year, last year, the year before and the year before. And there's only two ways to get on that list. You're either an entrepreneur or you inherit the money. There is no other way. You may say, well, Oprah's a talk show host. Oprah is an entrepreneur. You may say Jay-Z, who's not quite there yet, but he will be, you may say Jay-Z's a rapper. Jay-Z's an entrepreneur. You may say Dr. Sonso is a doctor. Dr. Sonso started the chain of hospitals. And he's an entrepreneur or she's an entrepreneur. That's the only way to do it. I mean, you're not going to do it any other way. Now, I'm not saying that everyone should aspire to the Forbes 400 because happiness is important. And so you got to do things that make you happy too. And you can have a comfortable life and that's what you're really after. But we were teaching our kids wealth building without really talking about how you really build wealth. So when I go into schools and I talk to young kids, I tell them, what a profession earns. So you got to do something that make you happy and here's what it earns. Well, I thought that would pay this because I thought this. And I'm like, you thought wrong. Here's what that profession pays. Here's what this profession pays. And I let the young folks know that. And so that's very, very important. At the same time, I don't try to give them the impression that the more money you make, the happier you are. I was very happy when I was poor growing up in the projects, extremely happy. And so happiness and joy, that's a whole different thing. Marlon talked about growing up and the blessing that he's gotten from God and I'll say the same thing. That's where my joy comes from. Happiness, but I'm gonna tell you this. I'd rather be rich and unhappy than poor and unhappy. I'd rather be rich and happy than poor and happy. I've been both. I've been poor and happy and I've been rich and happy. I prefer rich and happy. Now I'm not gonna mix the two things, happiness versus unhappiness because all I want is joy, peace and happiness. I mean, the money is a far second thing. But this whole notion of wealth building, I wanna give others a chance to make closing comments. It's important and it can't be done in one session because there's so much work to do. But I think you've heard some ideas and concepts throughout this talk. But I think so to the whole panel and everybody listening, right? I get so much joy from just listening to Brother Thompson talk about, I mean, he just gave us our pay for that session, right? Just some nuggets and some knowledge and just how he got started and how he bought a business. What happens is so many young people hear Marlon's story or my story about playing sports and a lot of young people believe if they work hard, they can make it to the NFL or NBA and they should, is their dream. But so many young people don't hear Mr. Thompson's story, right? To understand that they can do the same thing and we don't glorify his story. Our stories get glorified, we'll ESPN and we'll read them, kids read about it and they believe that story and so many kids believe they can go to the NFL NBA. So as we look at the simple things that we can do, systemic racism and systemic obstacles, they exist and they're gonna exist. I've listened to Charles Barkley there, they talk about that and say, you know what? Those things are there, right? But we still have to overcome. We can't look at those things and blame those things. So Mr. Thompson and people like him have to be accessible to our young people. We have to glorify the him as heroes of our community because of what he has been able to achieve and tell his story just like we tell the story of LeBron James. And people have to believe that they can be the next Mr. Thompson. They have to believe that they can buy a business, understand that those things can happen So as we look at education and I'll speak from my point of view is innovation in education. How do we go about engaging and truly educate and inspire and learn it? That's education has defined to me, teaching was defined to me as the ability to inspire and learn it. How do we do that with young people instead of waiting for finished products to walk through our doors? Understanding the young people that we get coming in our schools and then holding them accountable to excellence? Marlon and I play in sports. You are not gonna go out of practice without expectation of excellence. But we need to have the same thing in our schools. We need to have the same thing with our young people. And we need to glorify people like Mr. Thompson who have a true American dream story that every young president in the neighborhood should know his story. So to me, doing the simple things I think we can do, I like looking at things as far as what are the simple things we need to do and what can we truly do? We need to tell those stories to young people so young people know they can achieve. And we need to create environments that inspire learning and not wait for finished products to come in our doors. Thank you so much. Marlon, did you wanna add anything before I turn it back to Ashiya? I agree with some of what's been said. I think we mentioned and talked about how do we change the system? And I think you changed it from getting within it. And just as Emile said, it's about what do we value and what do we glorify? I shake my head at times when people hold me in their pedestal for being an athlete. And Emile has it correct, like John Thompson and his story and the story of entrepreneurship and ownership and the process to being that and going about it. Like that's what needs to be told. Like that needs to be a tangible path to understand that that is reality. You know, it's not, you know, dunking a basketball or how far you can throw a football or playing baseball or running track. Those are great things. Those are pathways and those are avenues of social mobility. But there are other ways as well, you know, where you can have the freedom to create the path that you want. But it starts with the knowledge and the understanding and us as a collective group as leaders in the community and the media, we have to change the narrative and not have it just be speaking so widely about the athlete or the entertainer, but about the entrepreneur, about the businessman or woman and how they've gone about attaining success. And what John said, it's not about success and happiness, you know, don't always go hand in hand. You know, I remember, you know, just being in a field having more money than I do now, but not being happy, but having a better understanding of who I am as a person now and having more direction in my life. That brings joy, having a family brings joy, having knowledge, it's brought control, you know, and the fact that understanding through my knowledge and understanding of the system and the business and systems and processes in general, I have control of my destiny and it's just how I provide myself and what relationships I build to help fill in the gaps that I may have. Thank you so much, Marlon. I'm gonna just wrap up a couple of comments from the chat and hand it back to Oshia for a final word. Thank you to the panel, it was really phenomenal and thank you to everyone in chat. We'll be releasing the video of this session in a transcript and also highlighting the great ideas that have come from you and the audience around the importance of mentoring, around specific programs you'd like to see highlighted, around the idea, Ashley, I saw your idea about having something akin to a maker space in public libraries that act as incubators and counselors for small businesses and also physical spaces where people can connect with folks like Mr. Thompson and like the rest of our panel. I think today we discovered that building wealth is a complex idea and a complicated idea and has as much to do with personal definitions of comfort and stability as it does to do with any bank balance. And I think we recognize that there are structural and political barriers and hopefully we can have a second conversation to tackle those a little bit. But I am really grateful that all of you have taken the time to share your stories because I think highlighting the stories of Black excellence and very diverse Black experiences. They are not monolithic. Highlighting the talent in this city through this and the prior four programs is really important because I know personally I will never abide someone saying, well, I couldn't find a Black leader for my board. I couldn't find a Black leader for my advisory committee. I couldn't find a Black panelist because we now have five sessions worth of amazing people just here in Indianapolis and they're merely one sample. So thank you to all of you, Oshia. I would love to hand it over to you to close this out and say goodbye today. Well, thank you so much, Molly. Thank you to everyone. Thank you to Mr. Thompson, Emile, Marlon. Thank you guys. I really enjoy this conversation. I've learned a lot. I feel like we, again, as usual, we're just like scratching the surface. There's so much more. I feel like we need to have some kind of like workshop for you guys to do like sessions where you can share your information, your wealth of knowledge as we're talking about wealth today. And to Marlon's point, I definitely feel, you're talking about highlighting athletes and entertainers and not highlighting stories like Mr. Thompson. And I feel like that is one of the things I love about doing what I do is I can highlight those stories. I can share those stories because as Mr. Thompson said earlier, we only talked about so many jobs, lawyer, doctor, nurse, teacher. I never saw a journalist. I didn't see a Black journalist growing up. I didn't know anyone who worked at a newspaper. I just had somehow in my mind that's why I wanted to do it. So, and I often try to make sure that other kids think about there are other jobs out here. They're not just these five jobs. You can do so many more. And the idea that there are even more jobs today, my son is in digital marketing. That didn't exist when I was in college. You know, he's kind of created the space and I'm like, digital marketing, wow. And for people that don't like telling my, telling family members what he does, they're just like, now what do you do again? What do you do? How do you do this? And it's like, you can create the idea of creating your own job. That was a newer thing to me once I got out of college and I was like, I could have become a consultant. I could do this and I can do that. Like, how do we do that? And I think that's something that we can, we can have another workshop once, how to teach young people how to create these jobs for themselves, how to create these spaces. So I appreciate you guys so much. And Breonka, I know she had to leave, but I just appreciate learning so much. And hearing and being able to impart wisdom. And I think that we have many more conversations about creating what I think we're just scratching the surface. So again, thank you, Molly, new America. Thank you everyone for joining the panel. And I've really had a great time learning and I've been writing a lot of notes. I didn't get to everything, but maybe one day we'll come back to it and I will. So thank you so much. Thank you everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Be on the lookout for our follow up email where we receive a video notes and transcript. Thank you as always to our community partners at WFYI and to all of you for joining. Have a wonderful day and stay safe.