 All right, here we go with a special on-the-road edition of In The Zone with Matt Barnes, man. We at your house in the LA area? No, thanks for having us over here, like the Tupac shirt, and you got some great art all over the place. Tupac, your favorite rapper? Tupac is my favorite human. Definitely rapper, but I just think he was so much more than a rapper. But yeah, I just have cool, I'm a big fan of kind of helping people expand their brand in their business. So I find local artists off Instagram, kind of all over the United States, and now they want to send me stuff, but I'll buy stuff and post form and kind of help grow their gathering and get other athletes to do the same thing. So I was fortunate enough to have some cool stuff. Yeah, some great stuff, man. Great shots. So you reach out to people, you just reach out to them. They must be shocked. Yeah, they are definitely. It's really cool, you know what I mean? Because they're really authentic and I just think music and art are something I wish I can do. It's such a creative space and like I said, I just love being able to help people. Do you do any art or music or anything like that? I buy it and listen to it. You never rapped or anything back in the day? I respect the craft too much to try to cross over like that. So even back in the day though, when you was a kid, you didn't run? Never, I just knew I was an athlete. That's what I did. So I respect each craft too much to try to cross over and do some stuff like that because I don't have the time to be good at it. What do you think about the players that rap? Some guys could really rap. Some guys could like Dame Lilac could really rap. You know, Steven Jackson could really rap. It's something you can do. Do it. It just wasn't really for me. Yeah, you heard Lanzos mixtape? Yeah, I just heard Snidbits, but I like it. You know, he's a talented kid, man. And I really think the basketball side is starting to show and I'm happy for him. He's playing well. Is that, I mean, you play with a lot of great players. Having a teammate like that, I don't want to compare it to the greats that you play with, but having a guy that's straight trying to pass and get you involved. How much do guys enjoy that? It's special. It's special to be able to affect the game without necessarily scoring a bunch of points. You know, it takes a special individual. I was blessed to play with a lot of them. Steve Nash, Chris Paul, guys that really can do either or, but would rather pass. You know what I mean? So someone like Lanzo is a special talent and I think he kind of took it off to a slow start because one, it's just a new experience. He's 1920, but then all the trash talking with his dad in the world, you know what I mean? So I think everything's kind of simmered down and you're starting to see him kind of get it a little bit, but he's going to be a special player. You got two boys. They play? Yeah. They're young. Nine, right? Would you be like a LeVar ball dad? No, I mean, I don't, don't get me wrong. I like what LeVar is doing. I mean, he loves his boys. You know what I mean? And he realized he has some special, you know, I don't agree with everything he does, but I'd much rather be there doing that than not be around doing nothing. My boys, I'm different, you know, add to each their own. You know, I just have a different way of going about it and motivating them and getting them to do stuff and teaching them about life. You know what I mean? So, but I'm definitely going to be a dad that's very hands on. So we were talking earlier before we got on the camera. Kevin Love came out with a big article today in the players tribune, really good article, insightful about kind of mental illness among athletes. And he said he had a couple panic attacks during games and he's seeing a therapist and stuff. And you were saying how, you know, people don't appreciate what athletes, those are, we go through a lot. And I think that because we make a lot of money, people just expect us to be super human and we're not. We're just like everyone else. We just happen to be good at something that, you know, pays a lot, but I can completely understand. I saw, you know, with Kevin and with DeMar DeRosan speaking on it, I think throughout sports because we, especially in basketball, you know, I played through the death of my mom the day after my mom died. I played just to kind of, you know, stay, get it off my mind. I went through a very public divorce. I went through a very public fight with Derek Fisher, you know, but, but all this and people are saying good, bad and indifferent. I'm still dealing with emotions all the time, but, but I have to be able to put those away because I'm playing basketball still. You know what I mean? So we have to kind of suppress a lot of things and a lot of times it doesn't get to come to the surface. And you know, you'll see one of us either go off or go into a depression or go into, you know, you don't know what direction people go. So it's, it's definitely a serious issue in pro sports. Do coaches, I mean, are you able to go talk to anybody? It's hard. I think it's hard because as a man, you don't want to admit you have, you know, it's kind of like a pride thing. You know, but I can't really, I've been fortunate enough to never have it. You know, I've had, I've had anger issues up and down, but I've never had an anxiety attack or really had any type of depression. You know what I mean? I just, I dealt with my stuff a different way, but so I can't speak to their nature, but it's just tough, you know, but I definitely something that needs to be talked about and addressed. And I'm glad these guys are brave enough to do it. Yeah, it really is good. So you retired officially in December. What is, what's the one thing that stood out to you about the league since you've retired? Anything in particular? The refs. So what's so bad, man? They're so bad. The players aren't just bucket. No, I just, now that I'm not in it and I'm not emotionally tied to it, I still get so irritated by refs because I think it's so much ego they have. I think it's a prideful thing. And with all due respect, they're doing a very tough job. Don't give me when their job is tough, but it's to the point where you can't say anything to them. You know what I mean? Especially these young refs. I mean, they're so tea happy, you know what I mean? And you got to think you have kids, you know, and I have kids. I know when my kids are getting excited to watch a game or go to a game that night, they're not saying, daddy, I can't wait to go see these refs, give players teas. Like they're going to say, I can't go get ready to see KD or Steph or LeBron. Like they want to see these players and these refs are taking everything so personal and teaing these people out and throwing them out, messing up the whole flow of the game. And it really bothers me. So that's a lot different from when you came. Right. And it bothered me. I mean, I lost a lot of money while I was playing because of it. But now that I have, you know, I'm completely disconnected, the refs are terrible. Wow. When do you think it went? When did you, well, you were playing maybe you didn't? I think with the older generation, you know, when you started losing Joey, well, you know, I played 14, 15 years, you know what I mean? So I came in with the Dick Bavettas and Joey Crawford's and all these, you know, these legendary referees that, you know, we would still get into it, but we would get into it. You know, you can talk to them, you can yell at them, they would yell back at you and keep it moving. But these refs, if you look at them wrong, or if you do adjust, it's ridiculous. Like I talked to Draymond all the time. And when he got his, I think his 14th, the other night, where he just, he blocked someone's shot and just, you know, got the crowd when they gave him a tee. I'm like, that's bullsh**t. Like what do they do? Like you can't, you're taking the emotion out of the game. I feel like the league has not, like you said, not as bad as the refs, but when the league, like if you dunk on somebody and you stare at them, I shouldn't be a tee. No, it's, they're taking the emotion out of the game. Kind of like when football a few years ago, you couldn't celebrate. Like when you're doing, like it's emotion out, we're not robots. We're emotional humans. So we're going on a roller coaster throughout the game. So when something good happens, it's okay to celebrate. It's okay to yell in someone's face. It's okay. Like how KG used to dunk and yell in everybody's face or Shaq would like, you got, that's part of it. Get them back. If there's a problem, get them back, but don't give someone a tee for being emotionally involved in the game. Now, what do you say to the fans who say, man, the players complain about every call, nobody ever makes a foul. It's tough because they're right because we feel like we don't foul, you know, but I mean, guys know they do foul, but it's just, and I get it because the NBA wants it to be a scoring league. You know what I mean? They want scores in the upper, you know, the 120s because, you know, dunks and highlights drive revenue. So it's a whole money situation, but it's really taken out the purity of being able to guard someone and play basketball. So everything is a foul now. So really like, okay, we obviously, we do commit foul sometimes, but sometimes we're really just playing good, hard defense guarding these, the best players in the world and it's a little nudge or a little bump and they call everything. So it's hard because you're so competitive. Like, God, if you can't do that, how am I supposed to stop Katie? How am I supposed to stop Steph if I can't do anything? Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, you've been, since you've been retired, you're still making news. Yeah, a lot of news. Run through a few things. You recently said though, in an Instagram post, this is great. You want to be a billionaire by age 50. So tell me, tell me about that. Just I use the NBA as a platform. I don't get me wrong. I loved every minute of it, every game, every second. It was such a blessing to be able to play to get paid to do what I love. You know, man, I wasn't supposed to make it. I wasn't the best player on my UCLA team. I wasn't, I was a second round pick, but just my heart wouldn't let me fail. You know what I mean? So to be able to survive and be on as many teams and be able to coincide and mix and all the stuff I did, I just through all that, I use it as a platform to meet people. I mean, I was meeting everyone on the court side and I was going to lunch and dinners with people that I know that can help me down the line. And I really took that to heart. And I think that once people got to know who I was as a person, like, man, you're not that same person on the court. You know what I mean? So they kind of were able to separate the two knowing that because I've been everything from a thug to a bully to a dirty player, but I'm just a competitor. Like I'm a football player playing basketball. You know what I mean? So when you get a chance to meet these people and they see the real side of you, they're like, whoa, you know what I mean? And I can talk and I can understand business. And so I just been able to use all those connections to this next step. Were you, did somebody tell you, Matt, if you get to the NBA, use that stuff? Or was that just something you did? It was, it was a hustle instinct. You mean going, I started, I learned it at UCLA because UCLA is so well connected. So just starting to realize that all these people, whether I make it or not, all these people are people in position and power. And, you know, if you make friends, you never know who somebody is. So I'm always cool with everybody. Whoever meets me up the court, like, man, you're so cool. You know what I mean? So, because you never know who you're meeting and you never know if they're going to be able to help you down the line. If you can help them. So I just always remember that and just carry that through college and do my career. So you have some businesses? What are some of the business? Man, I'm invested in some oil. I made a big oil investment that it's going to be life-changing. So that was good. Yes. Is that here in America? Yeah, it was actually in Bakersfield. Wow. In Bakersfield. So I took a drive. I was driving from LA back to my house in Berkeley. And I met through the twins on the twin soccer team, my son's soccer team. I met a dad that told me about it. And I took a trip and loved it and made a huge play and it panned out. So it's exciting with that. Television and movie stuff. I've been blessed to be able to know some people to make the possibility of them doing the Huey Newton biopic. So I'm producing that. You can play Huey Newton. No, I'm not doing any acting. Like I have my time in front of the screen playing people. Were you in black and white back in the day? Were you in that? No. The only thing I did was, what was that movie with Kevin Hart? Kevin Hart and where they go to Las Vegas? I can't even remember the name. Think about a man. Oh, think like a man. Think like a part two. Forgive me, man. I didn't mean to. I'd rather be behind the camera. I want to make stuff. I'm more of the creative side of it. So your biopic, you coming up with the whole, you're not just putting forth the money. No, I'm not putting anything. No, you got funded. So we got the full funding. We got a significant amount of money to make it. We've got a script. We've attached actors and actresses to it already. We're in the process of hunting out a director. Deion Taylor is a friend of mine from Sacramento. He's a young and up and coming black director. Ryan Krugler is a friend of mine. He played college football with my brother at Sac State. So he used to hang out at my house all the time in Sacramento. So he's back out here now just off the Black Panther success. So I'm going to wait in line to talk to him. And we have a few other people that we're talking to. I'm not someone that tries to jump in this game and think I know everything because I play basketball. I'm someone that wants to learn. So I'm surrounding myself with the best possible team with the best directors and scriptwriters and everyone because I've developed relationships. And to really just do this project honor, like I said, I met with Frederica Newton, which was his wife. Just in Oakland last week, I posted on Instagram, sat down and had lunch with her and just was shocked. I told her, I've got a chance to meet Obama, Michael Jordan, magic, and no one kind of moved me. But sitting down and talking to Huey Newton's wife had me as a fan. Wow. Kind of like stumbled up. So it was really cool. That's great, man. Really cool. When do you think that might be in the works? Like I said, right before we sat down, I was on the phone with my partner. We have four LOIs in right now. So we got some letters and 10s. We're meeting with our first director on Thursday night. So we're in the process. We're going to try to be up and filming by the summertime. That's great, man. So it'll be back in Oakland. We're going to make it everything as regal and authentic as we can make it. And like I said, do the project honor. How much different is what you're finding in your research for the film from, you know, we've seen the movie The Panther, not Black Panther, but Panther that was made, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago. I can think that anytime a group of Black men that are bearing arms and fighting for justice is always going to be a negative stereotype. It's just the society we live in. You know, obviously Huey did, you know, did bad things and got addicted to drugs and did, he was human. Just like we were human. You know what I mean? Everyone is human. You know what I mean? When you take on this form of a leader or an athlete or something, people forget that you're still human. You know what I mean? So there were ups and downs like everyone else. But I think to really just show the good and the bad, you know, you got to give them what they know of them, but then also show the other sides of them. And I think that's what we're going to try to do is really just bring him to life as a whole. Now you read a lot. You do a lot of reading. I'm starting to read up on this. I just, that was my goal after I retired to just stay off Instagram less Instagram and more reading. You know what I mean? So it's just something I've been picking up. I'm reading the new Jim Crow right now. I'm doing, you know, like I said, I'm doing Huey research constantly just to kind of get to know him better. But now when you play or not even now, do you encourage a lot of players to do what you've done as far as using their platform to meet people? I think it's different because I was always, you know, I always knew my role. And I think that's why I played as long as I wanted to, because I knew I was a role player, but I always gravitated and hung out with the stars. You know, I mean, on every team I was closest friends with the star. You know what I mean? So I don't think some of these younger guys got the, I always knew that yeah, I made good money and I could sit probably for a certain amount of time and be fine. But it was just never my mentality. I knew that I was going to have, I was going to be able to do business when I was done. But some of these guys are making $20, $30 million a year on the court. And then they got their shoe deal and they're just thinking like, I'm making and they're right. I'm making $30, $40 million or $20 million. Well, however much you're making off the court, like I don't want to do any of that right now. But they don't realize that they could be making that much, if not more off the court because everyone is so into NBA as a whole. You mean our faces, our brand or, you know, how we carry ourselves, everything like people are always watching and people always want. You know what I mean? So you're making all these great money on the court, but you can be killing off the court too. And I think it takes them a little bit of time to understand that. Do you want to do anything in basketball, coach, G.M.? No, I want to, I would like to be like a guy that can travel around and teach current players how to understand what they can do off the court outside of basketball, the business side of it, being able to brand yourself in the communities and being able to take the meetings with the CEOs of the town you're in and the cities you're in and make them understand the power they have because these people that were meeting their fans of us, you know what I mean? Their kids love us. So they would love to, no matter how busy they are, who it is, they're going to sit down and take a meeting with you. You know what I mean? So just I would like to do something like that where I'm just kind of putting these guys up on game because it was taught to me and now I'm able to use it and it's amazing. I'm going to make so much more money off the court than I ever made on the court. You know what I mean? So it's just like, and I was a journeyman role player. So imagine if some of these stars really started putting that grind to how I'm doing it. It's come on, man. LeBron seems to do that. LeBron's on it. LeBron is done. There's guys on it. Don't get me wrong. Caramba is on it. There's guys that are really business savvy. But like I said, some of these guys, because they're making so much money right now, they don't think about what's next. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Another news peg you made. You boycotted McDonald's because Sharif O'Neal, Shaq Sun did make the All-American team. McDonald's, All-American team. What's the update on the ban? It was never a ban. I'm just, I just like to talk trash and make people like say wow. So like, people sometimes think like, he's crazy. Everything I do is strategically, I know the outcome before it happens. Sometimes I'm going to get in trouble and I realize it. And I weigh the options like the Fisher fight. I knew eventually something was going to happen. But it was just principle. You know what I mean? So I know like when I say something, the people are like, wow, he's great. Like no, it's thought of. You know what I mean? I wanted people because I knew it was going to make all the blogs and everyone's going to laugh and talk about it. But no, my kids love the chicken nuggets there. So we don't, I mean, we try not to give it to them as much. But I think my kids will probably try to beat me up if I said, if I really said no more nuggets. But you know, I got a chance to meet Sharif when Shaq and I played in Phoenix. And you know, we spent holidays together back when he was little, you know, when he was like my boys age. So to be able to see him go and develop and be, you know, a top talent and now luckily going to UCLA now. I just, you know, I got love for big Shaq and obviously for Sharif. I want to go back to you with the businessman that you've met through the game. How do you know, like, were you always a really good student and you just, you learned that stuff in high school and college? Or how do you know to what's a good business? Do you have advisors or anything? I think more, mine is just like hustle growing. I'm like, my dad was a drug dealer. You know what I mean? So I just learned that I had just the hustle side of it. I was never a good student because I don't think I applied myself. But I'm very intelligent. Like when people talk to me and meet me, they're like, oh, like, oh, okay. You know what I mean? So mine is I can be booked like a, I mean, quick story. I got caught cheating at UCLA when I was in college and I almost got expelled. So then the next, you know, the next semester, like I had to do all my work and grind and made bees and a couple of A's. You know what I mean? So when I applied myself, I can't. I'm just always trying to do so much other things that school just wasn't exciting to me. So mine is just kind of more of a hustle when these business things come across. So you go by feeling. Feeling and the people I'm working with. And to me, like you have to enjoy the people you're working with. Not all money is good money. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I know that and I've learned that. And because I want someone that believes in the vision or I want, if I'm with you, I want to believe in the vision like you. So I'm going to work just as hard as you do to make it grow. You know what I mean? But if I don't get along with you and the project is whatever, like it's just, I'm all like I said, energy and vibe when it comes to business. And obviously a quality product. I've always said there's a difference between being educated and intelligent. And I've told people and to be honest, I thought about that after dealing with so many players who might not have a degree or whatever. But they're intelligent. You know what I'm saying? I mean, LeBron didn't even go to college. And look at all that. Like he's a very business savvy man. You know what I mean? So I think I have a bit. I mean, I'm educated. Don't get me wrong, but I'm more intelligent and just common sense street, street, you know, the streets where I was raised in, you know, in a street and in a hustle game. So what you mentioned UCLA, what do you think about all this stuff now with the NCAA and the scandal? The NCAA is, I mean, they've been crooks. You mean to be honest with you. And don't get me wrong, they've saved a lot of lives and given us a lot of us a career that we wouldn't have had a chance to do. So we, at the same time, it's, there's a lot of gratitude and respect. But if you think about how much money they're making off college athletes, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous the amount of money they're making in football and basketball. And I remember when I was at UCLA and you hear these stories all the time. I mean, sometimes you don't have like, I got $20 a week off my dad's credit union debit card. That's the only outside money I had at UCLA. Could you work? I didn't have time because I had to be a student and an athlete. UCLA was really like, you got to be a student. Right, like you got to, you got to focus. You got to do, and then not to mention, I'm in LA at 17 and playing at UCLA basketball. See, there's a nightlife to it too. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's hard, it's a lot. You know what I mean? So you're making all this money. How can you not pay these kids? And then you think about, I read an article one day to that 99% of college athletes don't go pro. Think about that. 99% of college athletes don't go pro. So you're trying to say like, we're student athletes for four years and then we don't go pro and we're just going to just fall on our, you know, fall down like with no help. So I think they need to be paid something, some way be a creative way to maybe like when you're done with college, you get the money or just something, you know what I mean? But don't just leave them hanging because they're bringing the schools millions and millions and millions of dollars. And, you know, unless you go pro, you have nothing to show for it. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You mentioned Derek Fisher that whole fight. Now you were saying recently you guys are cool now. Yeah, we're fine. Yeah. So how did that kind of, because obviously that's a personal situation, how did it come to be where you could be like, forgiving my guests and be like, you know, be good? I just think the situation of, you know, Max and I separated, you know, I ended up divorcing her. I just think the situation ran its course. So I wasn't in love with her anymore. I love her and I still love her. She's a mother of my children. I'm going to, from that standpoint, there's always going to be love, but just as far as like someone that I wanted to continue to grow with or grow, oh, they just wasn't there anymore. So in the situation, So even when you, even after time and fire. Yeah, after we had split, you know. So that's the whole thing when people are like, well, you're jealous or Derek stole her from you or you're not over, it wasn't that. That had nothing, it had something to do with it, but what it was was, you know, you're around my kids without telling me. That's what, but you're in the house that I pay for, first of all, with my ex, which is whatever. But you're around my Mike, Isaiah and Carter. And you know, you know, because we were teammates, how much those boys mean to me. He knew him probably. Yeah, he already. Come on, man. Oh, he was there. We were teammates, you know what I mean? So that's my whole thing. So when I approached him, because we've seen each other several times, there was just no conversation. He would look down, look away, walk away, whatever. Because he would be at my kids. Did he treat you differently? No, we just didn't speak. Oh, because he would be at my kid, he would be at my kids games, you know what I mean? So because, you know, him and my ex were together still. So he'd be at my kids games and just, there would be nothing. I'm just thinking this is, at some point we're going to have to talk. Since the fight, since the fight. Since the fight, because I didn't know. That's the day I found out was the day we fought. So had you seen him many, you know, like when he's dating your ex-wife, had you seen him and just been like everything was cool? I've seen him plenty of times. Because like I said, I see him at my kids games. But there was just no, no conversation. You know, which was, and to me, what got me, like what made me be like, and I was cool with that. Like I wasn't tripping. Like it was what it was. I'm not like keeping you guys from each other. Like we fought and I explained why we fought and that's what it was. You know what I mean? But just seeing him around and then my boys really took a liking to him. You know what I mean? And you know, daddy, I want, we want you and Derek to be friends and he's a good guy. And I knew outside of the movie pool, he was a cool dude. Like I said, we were teammates. You know what I mean? And fish was a, fish was a cool dude. You know what I mean? So the fact that the boys liked him and I was just like, I would probably sound like seven to 10 times. It was nothing. And so just one time after the boys football game, I just stopped him. You know, my ex was there too. And I just pulled him to the side and explained why I fought him and he understood. And he apologized. And then, you know, I said, I apologize for letting it escalate to a fight, but it just, you know, kind of was what it was. Like, like I said, I explained that the fact that it wasn't the fact that it was my ex was the fact that you're in my house with my kids and you don't tell me. That's the whole thing. So, I mean, like I said, my thing, the whole thing now is here and I are cool. I actually communicate better with him than I do with my ex. You know what I mean? So I want them to be happy. You know, like I said, it's about my kids now. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So he makes my kids happy. I'm happy. So that, I mean, that's really all that is. That's, that's, that's takes a lot, man. Yeah. No, I mean, I hit him with some real stuff. Like you're around my kids more than I am. You know what I mean? Like, that's how deep, like I'm, I'm a man about it. You know what I mean? Like you're the man figure in their life more because the glory has it more than I do. So you're going to have to teach them how to be men and how to maneuver and discipline them in the right way. Like I gave a lot of, considering everything that went down, like I gave them a lot of respect from that standpoint. You know what I mean? Like when I'm not around, you're the man around. You mean, that's how I really kept it with them. So like I said, I just want to co-parent and be happy and do everything possible to make these boys have the best childhood of their lives and grow up to be productive men. How close were you and Fish? I mean, we all just cool teammates. We were teammates. We were cool. You know what I mean? Like if you look back, like he came to our events, you know what I mean? We met his wife, Lori and his wife were cool. Like it was, it was some ill, like just the unspoken rule of you don't do. Oh, can I, can I say? Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's just something you don't do. You know what I mean? So we had hung out. You know, he was, he was, he was my, you know, he was my OG, really. He was an older player on my team. You know what I mean? So, and I'd always respected him before. There was always love before. Because like I said, he's a standup dude. So when it went down, it was funny, but like I said, it's, you can't help who you fall in love with or whatever the situation is. There's just a, there's a spectral way to handle it and neither of them handled it that way. So what I did happen. Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's good, man. All right. So, um, your former, one of your, your former teammates, Austin Rivers, you called him a fake, tough guy and arrogant. Why you feel that way? I don't remember calling him fake, a fake tough guy. That's not, not, not something I really say, but I said, I did say arrogant and because he is, you know what I mean? And that's just who he is. I mean, if you ask him, I was the first one to put my arm around him when he got to LA and just said, no, you need anything. You know, LA is so much more than basketball. And I, I mean, so obviously I think Austin realized that now, I mean, you're getting hit every different direction every day because that's what people are doing. Like whether it's, you know, people that don't like you, people that like you, the media loves you, hate you. It's just a lot going on. The nightlife, like you have to really be able to focus and lock in. And that was just the one thing I put my arm around. I'm like, yo, this is, LA is crazy. If you need anything, let me know. We could talk, do it, have lunch or whatever. So I was, so I did that. But just seeing him and being around him, it's just, he's just an arrogant dude. And he rubbed some people the wrong way. Like I didn't trip cause he was my teammate. So like if he got into it, I got into it. I still had his back to the fullest, just like I had everyone else's back. But just after not being on his team, and then seeing the kind of the same way he carries himself and talking trash to players, why he's hurt. Like I, I just know, you know what I mean? I already know what that's about. So I see why them dudes were mad. Like, I get it. It doesn't make him a bag. It's just who he is. Like I said, we were cool with teammates. I mean, you can ask him. And he, I ain't got nothing bad to say about him from that standpoint. But it's just, he carries himself with arrogance that a lot of people don't like. Now you were on the Clippers team when y'all beat Golden State. And then the next year, in the playoffs, the next year they start, they just go to a whole another level. What was your, like, I thought y'all had a championship type top. We had a, there's no question. Our, our, the Clippers biggest weakness was our mental toughness. Physically, on paper, in the games, we could beat anybody. Our biggest obstacle and what held us back from a championship was our mental toughness. There was just too many, too many egos, some, some young acting, so some young acts. And, you know, the transition from Vinny to Doc, there was just things that this, that didn't get ironed out. But if they were ironed out, there was no question that we were one of the most talented teams in the league during that time. I remember when Vinny was the coach, everybody was killing Vinny, like he needs to go and all that. And I thought when Doc came, that y'all, you know, I thought he was going to take y'all to the next level. I mean, I predicted y'all go to the finals that first year with Doc. And now I've wondered if Vinny had stayed coach, what would have happened? What do you think, could y'all have maybe gone further? Two different coaching styles. I liked Vinny. Vinny was kind of an old throwback coach from the standpoint of, if he trusts you, he's going to let you go out there and rock. And he trusted me. I got his trust the first year. Even though I didn't start, I was playing a lot of minutes in closing games. And then Doc came in and Doc definitely installed more toughness in us, more of a defensive mindset. Doc wasn't putting up with the young acting bullshit that we had, which I liked. But like I said, I just think there was just too much. How do I word this? Because I mean, all these guys are still my friends. I'm just always going to keep it real. There was just too much. There was too much headbutton. There was just reports. Chris and Blake. There was too much headbutt. But like I said, even when they say Chris and Blake or DJ and Chris and Blake, or whoever they say like, we're still like brothers though. You know what I mean? Like it's like when you're going to crush your brother out, but still you love him and you're going to hug him when you're done. Were guys cool off the court? Guys were cool off the court. Okay. You know what I mean? But just like I said, it was just when you're in that competitive nature, some guys just aren't receptive to certain things, or they take it the wrong way and it becomes a rift. You know what I mean? And there was just too much of that. You know what I mean? So that was definitely what held us back from at least competing for a championship because we were one of the most talented teams out there. When you saw Golden State go so far, what did you think? They must have really ate you up. Man, we just beat them the year before. You know what I mean? Then we were supposed to play them where we upped 3-1 on Houston that year and basically got swept after, you know, going into the four quarter up 17. I mean, I think that was the beginning of the end for that clipper team that that run because the year before we, you know, we tricked it off. I want to say against OKC when we should have made a run and we just couldn't get over that second round hump. You know what I mean? It was crazy. Like we were 3-1 manhandling Houston in that series, you know, manhandling Houston and knowing that we're about to play the Warriors in the Western Conference finals and then all of a sudden James Harden sits down and their reserves destroy us and destroyed us. The rest of the game 7 in Houston, they might have like beat us by 70 or something like we didn't even have a chance. You know what I mean? That was one of the one of the real titles in my career. I really felt like because you know me. I'm bald to the wall every game. If we don't win, we can fight like something like we're gonna win. You know what I mean? So but that was really one time my career where I felt that momentum shift like damn. Like they got the mojo. They got the mojo and we couldn't get it back. Wow. Wow. Couldn't get it back. Wow. Yeah. That was. I had some tough times in losing in the playoffs with the Clippers because we were so talented. You mean, but we just couldn't get it here and it would kill me because I'm so much about team and getting guys on the same page. Like if you asked those guys in that locker room, I was the glue guy that was the communication when some guys were on the islands. Okay. You know what I mean? So it was just like once I bounced and I would just see stuff like watching them as a fan. I'd just be like I already know what I already know what's going on tonight. I already know what's going on tonight. This shit ain't gonna work. Were you surprised when Chris left? Yeah. Mixed feelings and I want to get the one Blake left too. But you know, Chris just wanted to win. You know what I mean? And Chris is, I think, sometimes received the wrong way, but as just someone that you want to go out and compete with in the foxhole with, you want to see P on your team. So to see him, to see him go was tough. But at the same time now, when I talked to him and I just saw his family a couple of weeks ago, like he looks so happy out there and as a friend of his, I'm happy for him. You mean, but there's three teams that really have a hold on my heart that I played for in the NBA. And it's the Lakers, Clippers, and Warriors. You know what I mean? So I'm always going to be fans of those teams. So to be a fan of the Clippers still that I'm done playing it, it would hurt me to see Chris go. But I think to even touch back to your point earlier, you know, playing with the passing point guard, I think DJ realized how important Chris was. You know what I mean? The Clippers as a whole realized how important Chris was. You know what I mean? Because if he wasn't, Chris is someone that could take over the fourth quarter by himself and score 20 or he can make sure that we have a 40-point quarter as a team. Like Chris could do either or and they don't have that no more. Yeah. You know, DeAndre's not getting those easy lives that he took for granted with Chris would throw that sh** like this. You know what I mean? But because Chris is a hall of fame once in a, you know, lifetime type point guard. Do you think the Rockets can be Golden State? I love what the Rockets are doing, man. I love what the Rockets are doing. I love Joe Johnson, PJ Tucker, Bob Mute, Chris, because I think Chris is made James Rates' level. I love Trevor. You know, Trevor's my young boy that I'm in a group text with now. Eric Gordon is a monster. Clint Capella is understanding why DJ loved Chris on the offensive end so much because Clint Capella is leading the league in field goal percentage now and about to get a lot of money because the way James and Chris pass the ball. You know what I mean? So I love Houston, but wait, to me, he still gives the Warriors the edge as their chemistry. Their chemistry is second to none. So you can build an amazing team on paper and the Rockets, I think, have found their stride. They're going to continue to get better. I hope they stay healthy because I would love to see that Western Conference finals. But the Warriors are just different, man. And you're around that team and you've been to practice and it's just somewhere like you want, like you can't wait to go to practice. Like you enjoy hanging out and talking with your team and it's all going off the court. Just the energy is amazing over there. We play music when we warmed up and you're getting warm, but you're messing around a little bit. And it's more like a, it's a fun experience. You know, it takes kind of the job side of it away. You know what I mean? It kind of makes you like to the pier side, like just basketball. Like I'm out here with my homeboys like about to hoop. You know what I mean? And that's what the Warriors organization gives you. So I love Houston. I mean, say you can never count San Antonio out. OK, see if they get hot can do anything. But to me, I'm still picking the Warriors. So the Warriors, the atmosphere you were just describing, you never felt that anywhere else? I felt it the first time around and go in the state but we weren't ready for it. We didn't know what it was. Management wasn't ready for it. Like we had a bond on a different type of level that this team has, but we had it was just, it was crazy, but it was a bond. You know what I mean? But I felt maybe it's the city. You know what I mean? Maybe it's the city that gets behind you because the city is so proud of you and you always want to put on for the city. But those two Warrior teams were the two closest teams I've ever had that where there was no ego from any of the stars and everybody just wanted to win. What was it like? Because you when you went there, they had KD and stuff and those like how what was that dynamic? Like, I mean, you got two probably the top three players in the world. It was amazing to see that everyone just wanted to win despite what you mentioned. You know, and you know, coach coach Curz as a rock star in his own sense, you know, from being one of just a cool laid back someone that the players like because he speaks up not only about basketball but life in general, you know, the good guy. So everyone had their own little on not they didn't travel in entourage, but they all had their big own fan bases. You know what I mean? So to bring all those guys under one roof and be able to get them to just want to play basketball for one another and love each other and know that the common goals that we all do our jobs, we're going to win a championship is amazing. You know, you got KD who's the MVP. You got Steph who's the MVP. You got Clay who's going to go down as one of the greatest shooters ever. You got Draymond who is an underdog. But to me, if you lose him, there's no warriors. You know what I mean? So you got so many different amazing aspects of that team and they can come together like this for the common goal. Is Draymond the inspirational? There's no question for the whole organization. Not just the team. He holds everybody accountable. Like he talks to the owner. He'll say something to the coaches, to the management. He'll get Steph's s*** so get KD's s*** and that's what you need. You need someone that because in this game there's so many people that are yes men to you in this and that's not how you you know this is we're men. This is not how you're going to make it work. You know what I mean? You need real in your life and Draymond gives them all real and he also gives us just a sense of I got your back type situation. That's why he and I bonded so well and we still talk. You know, weekly almost is just like the way we have our teammates back and the confidence they have when we're out there on the court with us is just like it's you know you can do your job because anything else I got and Draymond you know Steph do your job KD do your job because anything else I got you know what I mean? So when the meat when we see him on TV yelling at teammates or whatever and the media responds like oh they're going to get tired of that and they don't know it's not no Draymond is probably one the most loved person in that locker room. You know to me Draymond is going to be someone like and this is no disrespect because Chuck's intelligent but just a different form of Chuck like just a more versed version of Charles Barkley when he's done playing like he's a he's a very personable very well-spoken articulate can hold conversations in any realm of life. You know he's just a real deep dude but what you see as a competitor like you saw of me so you're going to see me cussing the other team out getting a tackle foul yelling at my teammates sometimes or getting back and forth with my teammates or getting into my coach because we're just passionate but at the same time we're still the person that you know everyone rallied around. Now you had a rep you mentioned it earlier thug tough guy you know bully you had that reputation as one of the tougher guys in the league how do you think that came about? I just it's funny because I think because people think like because the way I look you know because I've been called a pretty boy you know what I mean but people don't know the way I grew up you know what I mean like I said my dad was a drug dealer so I've seen my dad do some crazy stuff you know what I mean and my dad always fought and the one thing he taught me at an early age was protect your family at all costs so if my brother or sister got in a fight I fought no matter what and if I didn't I was going to get my s*** when I went home so I just grew up fighting always you know what I mean so you got in a lot of fights lots of fights and then when I first started going to school so we lived in a bad neighborhood but my parents always put me in white schools and I didn't like it at the I mean I'm Italian but I consider myself a black man because of the way I've been treated and the path I've taken with the races in my face but my parents would put me in white schools and I didn't like it because I used my friends were Mexican and black and I didn't really know how to you know verse with white kids early on like third grade I can remember when I first got to Sacramento and it was just I wasn't white enough and I wasn't black enough so I was just always fighting and how I really started getting accepted was because I was the best at all the sports you know what I mean so I was always the best at everything so that's when people kind of gave me a chance to even be accepting of me and then once they got a chance to know me it was I still have friends from third grade okay you know what I mean so it's just once they gave me a chance so I've just always grew up rough and then I just having to look like this you know what I mean so people he's fake or he's this he's that and like but the people that grew up me and know me just like no matters the one that will fight in the heartbeat and it's not it's just it's not something I'm proud I'm not the toughest guy by any means but it's just the way I was raised and like my whole like just I'm a big on respect like respect me and I'm respect you you know what I mean like I said I'm not the toughest guy but we're all men at the end of the day so even if I'm gonna take an L like you're not gonna disrespect because we'll probably go you know what I mean so it's just it's just the way I grew up I'm working on it I hope that I hope that the Fisher fight is my last fight but I just you never know in life how many fights were you in the NBA like real fights none because they knew you were tough but all the I just I don't know but all the altercations I always got in was coming to someone's defense you know what I mean no one ever really just came and me on no bully stuff you know what I mean and I never came on no one on no bully or thug types I was just competitive so if you got mad it's just because I'm in your ass guarding you and I'm not giving you nothing easy and I'm a foul you harder if you beat me like that's what I was on I wasn't on no I'm gonna try to fight you know I was never on that but like if the basketball stuff wasn't if it had went there I would be ready to go there how common are fights in the NBA like in practice and stuff not really that much there are people who will fight obviously but at the end of the day like especially in practice that's your teammate that's your brother you know what I mean so it does go there sometimes there are fights in practice you know what I mean it happens but at the end of the day just it's so expensive now you know it's expensive to fight man that first punch can cost you for me that first punch if I ever threw a first punch the NBA probably would have me arrested on the low but there's no telling what the fine would have been you know what I mean but back in the day it was just different it was almost like you know not hockey but to an extent where you know in the 80s they would throw hands or elbows and it would just be a technical foul you know what I mean and they would be able to come back in the game but like I said everything evolves and grows and it wasn't good for the brand or the image so I get it but um yeah there's I mean it's whatever another news item now this one I'd be interested to see if this is still applicable this is from 2016 where you obviously were still playing and I read something you said you don't you don't like Colin Kaepernick now is that true is that still true what what's the what's the room to that we just went through some some personal stuff I guess so you knew him we've never we knew each other in passing but just some some crazy stuff and went down and I didn't like the way he handled himself for the situation as a man so I just let him know that yeah I was at the time I was I was on some other some other thinking but now the time has passed I'm a fan of him so that was before the whole protest he lived yeah mm-hmm I'm a fan of just him as a man now like I said I didn't the move the move that was pulled back then was on some other stuff but now just I think the movement he caused and the courage he had in the in the in the in the the inner strength and peace I guess he had with what he did is amazing mm-hmm and um he's gonna go down as a legend now yeah you mean which which is dope and uh he really sparked a movement and a conversation that was that was a sticky conversation for so long and it's still sticky you know what I mean but he you know in order for things to change you have to make people uncomfortable and that's what he did and I I think I speak very well when I I thank him for that have you reached out to him or I would like to like I said the last uh I think the last he knew that if if I saw him you know it was gonna you know we were gonna have a you know but like I saw him I'm I'm yeah I'm off that now like I would love to sit down and talk to him because I'm on the same type thing you know with this whole social injustices and you know if you if you follow me on Instagram or follow me as a person you just know I'm always speaking up on everything mm-hmm and uh I mean I was doing that before he was before he did his stance but like I said I respect the stance he's taken for all of us and uh you know I would love to sit down to have a conversation we'll do it and you know do something foundation-wise or for the city or do something together because I think we're always stronger together you know than we are accepting is there anything more you see a lot of athletes speaking out now is there anything more you think should be done by athletes it's it's it's it's tough because the big guys you know have to worry about their image mm-hmm in their brand and someone like me could sit back and talk shit all day and it's just you know like I said because I I mean I know who I was I mean I have a following but I'm not by no means I'm no LeBron I'm no Steph you know what I mean so someone could sit like but back someone like me could sit back and talk all day but when LeBron steps up and does it that's that's big yeah you know what I mean when Steph takes a stand and has Trump coming out and that's big and when other athletes take stands when Kaepernick takes stand it's you know it's groundbreaking and it needs to happen because together we are pop culture as a whole whatever athletes and general were basketball to the forefront because of our faces and how we're everywhere like we lead culture in fashion in luxury and in business and you know anything we do you know what I mean when you when you start adding the jz's and the puffs like we are pop culture you know what I mean so whatever we do makes way so when we start coming together it's big now what is you mentioned Steph what's he like as what's he like as I don't know if people Steph is a cool dude you know I think I think Steph gets a a misconception of who Steph is as a person kind of like how Blake Griffin did like you saw Blake Griffin he was kind of like whatever on these commercials and people would always be like what's Blake like you know Blake is cool as s*** like Blake is just like talks trash and has a good time and you could have fun with Blake and Steph is the same way Steph is like a serious practical joker like him and Ian Clark last year all like when I think back about that season I just remember him and Ian just laughing the whole season you know what I mean like as amazing as he is he just doesn't you know what I mean he still enjoys life you know what I mean and just a fun same kind of you know you could talk trash you could talk trash back he'll go golf with you like he's just a regular dude and I think like I said when you become a superstar people think you're you know that you're off you're different and the same with him like KD KD is quiet to the public but when he's around us he's cool in talking trash and you know trying to be funny trying to be funny you know what I mean so it's just those things are cool now you mentioned Blake the trade from the clip were you shocked at that upset about that? I was same thing with Chris like I'm just like damn as a clipper fan like but then then you start thinking too on the business side of basketball then just basketball as a whole I think you know Blake needed a breath of fresh air okay you know what I mean I think they had probably obviously reached the ceiling with the team they had so from a business side of it like as a fan I was hurt like I said I'm a clipper fan still but on the basketball side I know I don't know if he wanted to go to Detroit because it's freezing he's been in LA his whole career but he got a fresh start you know he looks like he's having fun again he's smiling he's out there playing well and then for the clippers what they got back is they got nice pieces Tobias Harris can really play Avery and Bradley can really play who else they get they got one more person though Avery and I got three people didn't they those were the main two I believe but those like those guys can really play you know I mean so I think the trade worked out good for but I think the clippers are a better team now with the guys they've added but like I said as a fan it was it was bittersweet to see him go you said earlier that you you knew who you were you knew you were a role player is that unique because a lot of role players don't know they role play like they think if I could get those if I got those minutes and like no I knew like my what got me 14 15 years was my heart I mean I could do things and I can shoot and I can play defense I could do but I just knew that no one was gonna out do this you know what I mean they're not gonna out do that so I knew my and I think that's why I said if you think about playing a lot of teams but I always went in and I started any team I've ever gone to from the Warriors last year I started you know what I mean games any team I went to I started just because I knew what I had to do you know what I mean I'm like a real student of the game so I would watch film and see their their weaknesses and where I can plug the holes and where guys where the scores like the ball at and how I can pick and like I just studied the game to if you ask anyone and this is not like toot my own horn but people love playing with me because I'm just so selfless to the game and I'm gonna set screens or get you an offense to rebound or hard foul somebody or do whatever it takes to get you going because I know if you go going we're gonna go I might mess around and give you 30 points sometimes or give you a nice double double lucky to get a triple double in my career you know what I mean I can do all that stuff but like I said like there's I think if guys understood what their role was they would last longer like I agree there's two stars on the team sometimes more now but you know the rest guys are role players even if you're an all star you're still a role player you know as as good as Dre Monin as good as Clea's they're role players to Katie and Steph superstar them you know what I mean but they're still all stars and making great money but they understand that you know what I mean so if guys knew what I always tell people I was always used to tell people like young players when I would start becoming older like go talk to the coach and see what he wants you to do and then do that he's telling you how the hell you gonna get on the court you know what I mean so it was just that's what I was always about I always knew what my job was what was needed so that's why anywhere I went I always played and I was a contributor because I knew my role you know being here in LA everybody's talking about Clea coming to the Lakers can you see that I mean it seems he seems content I can see it I don't want to see it oh I'm a Lakers I'm a Laker fan too but I don't want to see the Warriors break up you want to see it again I think it would be amazing I want I want LeBron to come to the Lakers next year and I want Paul George or Boogie to come to Lakers like I want to see the Lakers to get back to top but I love what the Lakers are right now to me like the only two people you don't trade are Kuzma and Ball and Ingram is right there and this is all due respect with the whole team this is just me talking trash but I want to see them go I want to see LeBron come here and finish up Paul come home or Boogie come here and put them back on top just from the fan so let's say they get which is a good realistic chance they get LeBron and George Paul George how far they can they win it I don't know they're going to I'll tell you this I don't know if they could win it because you still got to go through Houston, Golden State but they're going to be a fun team and it's going to be the best thing ever to happen to zone Kuzma to have LeBron around you and then another star and Paul George and really teach these guys because what I love about the Lakers is they're just young because they don't know any better right now but they don't really have you know cobalt Pope is an older player but I don't know how vocal he is but they don't really have no OGs on that team and to teach to put really craft these young guys and you know what's weird about the game today is when I came in the game like like Chris Webber was OG in mind you know what I mean guys would tell you stuff to get you better because they wanted to see you do well it's different now because the older guys are kind of worried about the younger guys shit if I give him this dirt on how to get on the court he's going to take my job you know what I mean but I never looked at it from that cycle so when I started doing I never looked at it from that standpoint because like I said no one's going to out do this so I know I'm going to be on the court regardless if you like you got game I want you to get on the court too you know what I mean so this is what I'm going to try to help you with but you don't see that as much anymore because like I said I think these older players are scared because they know it's a young players league you know what I mean so I think these older players are scared of their jobs getting taken and it's disappointing because there's too many young kids out here that are so talented just kind of just doing whatever because they don't have no real older players in their locker room like it's like no you don't do that bro you know what I mean or teach them how to handle these women or teach them how to handle them you know what I mean like you just don't have that no more I remember with the Gilbert Arenas, Javar's, Crittington remember that situation and they had been gambling on the plane and obviously Arenas was a max guy Crittenden was making I don't know one and a half million or whatever and how much do you can guys get caught up and trying to live the lifestyle of a you know a superstar who's making backs and you ain't yeah one you just have to know yourself know who you are like I said Doc Rivers said one thing he said you know be a star in your role whatever your role is be a star in that so more than that it's just knowing yourself but to get back to your point and that gambling is you know what I mean that's another high state yeah you know what I mean but it most of it all right we always have fun with it yeah I mean we did it and it was always fun for us but you know you would win or lose a lot of money what's the most you saw anybody lose you ain't got a name no it was me she wanted to no I'm not no I'm not sh** so when I got so when I got traded from the Clippers to the Memphis Grizzlies I think I owed like CP 20,000 BG 20,000 DeAndre 15th like I was on the hook like I said it went back and forth I would be up okay you know y'all keep a tab I mean you just know you know like damn I got a man I hope my wife or my girl or whoever doesn't see this you know these transactions because then we had a thing like if you didn't pay on time you know you got taxed and everything so I got traded and I saw him a couple of times during the summer we didn't cross my mind but I remember the first time Memphis came it came to the Clippers I had like these cash your checks for all these dudes all right because you had to pay up you know what I mean so it's but like I said it was always like it's laughing and it was always fun with us yeah you know what I mean but you know the Gilbert situation got taken too far and I think that was the beginning of the end of Gilbert's career yeah yeah do you have any idea do you see him he's out now you know we're kind of tied together through sisters you know they're both our exes you know what I mean so I still talk to Gilbert see Gilbert you know but like I said I just think that situation was you know luckily he beat the situation came back and mocked it and do that thing and then you know and then he got hurt you know so when you're not when he's not when he wasn't agent zero no more because when he was agent zero he was top five in the world yeah you know I mean people don't realize how good Gilbert was when you when he wasn't agent zero no more and he had a knee trouble and then he gets traded and he has this big contract and he gets traded again and then he gets waived it's just like you know once you're not agent zero like they're not fooling with you no more you know what I mean so someone as talented his if he would have you know played the you know that whole gun situation hadn't happened and he would have got hurt he probably could have because he was so talented stayed in the league longer you know but like I said once you you kind of start mocking you know what you're in trouble for and your talent starts to diminish because of injuries it's only a matter of time yeah how's he doing is he all right Gilbert is people think Gilbert is crazy but Gilbert is I think not I'm not to the extreme we're not we're different extremes I think but he's still very calculated at the same time very intelligent very good with his money very business savvy Gilbert has a lot of people fooled but I think he wants some food because Gilbert is very intelligent yeah so he's Gilbert's fine money-wise what was it like playing with Kobe amazing really cool man especially because the way it came about you know it started back you know at UCLA when he would come and work out and play and always just thinking I remember UCLA I was thinking like damn he's only a year and a half older than me like I'm gonna have to be able to guard you know man will you be able to handle that when I'm at UCLA I'm thinking that when I'm seeing I remember the one year he broke his right hand so he was up at UCLA doing all left-handed workouts and as a year he came back shooting left-handed all the time yeah yeah he was doing his whole work I left him like this dude's a monster you know what I mean so I would always like kind of like man I gotta be ready for him so he was someone my whole career that I locked in on and always wanted to battle with every time we went whether I was playing a lot or got him for a couple minutes we battled you know what I mean so it was always I think there was a mutual respect there then fast forward to Orlando 2010 and people still talk about this in 2018 but you know the ball fake thing and that was a crazy game but that was a really good game like that was towards the end of the season we were going back and forth but he was just on his Kobe like elbowing me and grabbing me and doing dirty things and like the rest weren't calling and it was pissing me off so I just you know I was just I was to the point where like okay we're about to fight you know what I mean it's just what it was so when I took the ball and if you watch me it wasn't premeditated nothing I literally just I don't even know where it came from I just really ball fake but if you watch me I'm looking at Vince come off this pit because I'm trying to hit Vince for a back door on our in-bounds play but for some reason just I guess my arms had a thing of their own and just like faith did you know what I mean so once everything happened and I saw the film and saw that it came like with an eyelashes of him and he didn't flinch I'm like that's a that's a cold boy right there boy you know what I mean but then you know then my situation Orlando fell through and you know he was someone that called me up like a couple days in free agency you know and asked me if I wanted to be a Laker and Lakers were my favorite team growing up and I'm just like damn this is Kobe asking me if I want to be his teammate like hell yeah like I was the biggest Magic Johnson fan you know and I remember Kobe saying anyone crazy enough to fuck with me is crazy enough to play with me you know what I mean so that's how that started and then I remember just one quick story about when we first went to Spain because we were going back for Powell we were playing over there everyone was taking their family he was over there with his headphones on and his look we had our cubby host because we were flying overseas and I thought he was rapping I know you know you had that yeah he was rapping that rap but he was over there just jamming so I thought he was rapping and I just got and then I saw him doing stuff so I was gonna go because I couldn't sleep so I went over to see what he was doing and he had a a bunch of different courts drawn on this piece of paper and he told me I'm looking for where you guys are going to be open out of the offense so he says I never look at the guy guarding me I'm always looking at the help in them in the half man that have their eyes on me wow I'm like what the f*** so he's he but he had 20 or 30 little courts with diagrams drawn up like where he can pass us the ball at wow that he was just on a different level you know what I mean and then you know going out to Orange County and working out with him sometime in the summertime his early morning you know tracks track sessions wait you know wait sessions like he was completely dialed into basketball you know what I mean and I think that's what made them so great so his because you know his work ethic his competitiveness is like legendary it's legit it is not a myth no I went to his camp one time in Santa Barbara and me and him play these kids two on two and he was like Kobe game seven against these 12 year olds like blocking shots dunking on it I was like yo chill bro like what now he was like no like nothing easy and like I was thinking like these are young kids yeah and he was going like I said he was Kobe game seven out there shot faking them and dunking and I was just like I was I just kind of sat back and just gave him the ball I'd be like in the real game I just gave him the ball every time and kind of watched him go to work but it was just like that's where his mind was always at like when he was between those lines I don't give a who I'm playing like it's on and I love that about it I remember remember he had that commercial early in his career where he was putting some little boy who was maybe eight years old that he was playing against and he was blocking this shot and all that stuff that's that's real that's nothing nothing fake about that all right all right let me ask you this what was it like to play for Phil Jackson amazing an amazing experience playing for Phil it was just he was someone they really put the ultimate trust on him like if you went out the if you watch Phil he's never really yelling he's always sitting like Phil gave you the confidence versus the player but then the structure to go out there and be man he didn't he didn't feel like he needed to control the game you know a lot of coaches need to call plays every time up the floor or this like Phil knew what you know in the triangle what you were going to get where you were going to get it and allow you to play you know Phil wasn't someone to call a bunch of timeouts like if you were if another team was making a run he wouldn't want to call a timeout and let the place go crazy Phil would let us work mentally work through it unfortunately I only got him for a year which was disappointing you know and that's the year I tore my knee to I does my only surgery I had my whole career so I kind of that was when when they had won back to back that was my first year with the Lakers so we were going for a three-peat that year and we were playing really well I tore my knee and we never really you know the team as a whole we never got our rhythm we got swept and Dallas won the championship that year but I really got close to Phil and really found it crazy because when I was hurt like like I said I'm a student of the game so I'm watching the game so one time I just text him like you know what I saw from the game and he responded and we went back and forth I'm like holy s*** like I'm talking to Phil about the game and what he he asked me what I saw you know what I mean and he kind of trusted me and I told him and he agreed with me and we talked back and forth so it was crazy that I went from like you know just getting on the team doing all this stuff getting hurt and now I'm like talking game strategy with Phil Jackson so that was really cool the meditation stuff was cool it was different it was just a different vibe and it worked for him probably no other team I imagine you had that experience no yeah Phil was special I enjoyed playing for Coach Kerr Coach Kerr let you play Don Nelson let us play I mean there was some coaches let us play and there was other coaches like you know Stan Bangani they want to call play every single time and as players you don't like that you know you want to be able to feel the flow of the game and do what you do so I had a few coaches that kind of let us play you um you've had some great teammates we mentioned earlier give me the best story about each guy so Allen Iverson I'm just such a fan of of who he is as a person you know I was there two and a half years with them and to see the beating he took every night the way his elbows would be swollen like this like this is no exaggeration like it's why he always had his elbow pads on he had bursa sacks on his elbows like this and he's little you know what I mean so he's going up and that's back when the NBA was still big he's going up against these big dudes every night and um doing his thing so I would just say my one story all my best stories with him are I'm going to say my best story with him is just his resilience his toughness and his heart to be able to go out there and do what he did every single night at his size okay okay Chris Paul Chris was someone I love playing with one of the favorite one of my favorite people I played one of the most favorite people I played with because it's just similar to Kobe like you just know he's going to play he's a superstar he's going to do every play as hard as he can on both sides every single night and um it didn't matter how it came I think a lot of things with Chris is the way he comes at you and I think that kind of disturbs some guys but with me like it was if he had to custom he was good if I had to cut back I didn't was good or if he could say come on Maddie that's what er uh once once we got our chemistry down all you had to say is come on Maddie and we were on you know what I mean so Chris is someone I love playing with I think the Clippers understand how important he was now that he's not there and um I love that he's he's doing well with Houston Steve Nash Steve Steve was a really cool dude too a quiet dude a very intelligent guy a thinker you know I think obviously he had had to realize that he was a you know a six two white guy or how tall is he six four whatever he was you know what I mean I don't even know if he was six two yeah you know but a little white guy and he made the absolute most of his body two-time MVP you know arguably one of the greatest shooters passers ever a huge fan of you know what he accomplished Shaq man the biggest kid the biggest embodied kid I've ever played with but amazing dude man one of the biggest hearts one of the most kindest dudes probably the most dominant player ever in the game physically dominant player ever in the game I think Will Chamberlain was amazing but he played with the guys a lot smaller than him Shaq was to me the most physically dominant player ever but what I remember about Shaq you know we we played with each other in Phoenix so what I remember about Shaq was more just it was towards the end of his career but he was just always laughing and having a good time like Shaq loves life and I love that about Shaq how do you because you were in the league in 0-4 I think was your first year 3-0-4 so the league changed a lot do you think the teams are better now with this whole three-point thing or the bigger teams back then it's a different game it's a faster pace you know what I mean like the big teams couldn't play this game no more but the small teams couldn't play that game no more but like I said earlier in our conversation the goal is to get these 120-point games you know what I mean so Steph Curry has changed the face of basketball forever the stretch 4 has changed the face of basketball forever like I kind of feel like the center is going to be obsolete unless you're like unless you're like the boy in New York or B to special yeah I mean but I think there's Embiid is a it's a it's a rare town I hope he stays healthy he's almost a throwback just some degree yeah right but then he can still shoot and handle the ball he can shoot threes no because coach wants him to shoot six to eight threes you know what I mean so it's just it's a different time in a different game so you know and when I talk to older players and fans you know we don't like this or they couldn't the scoring is different because it's just but it's just a different time like if you don't adjust I'm glad I played when I did you know me and I because I you still at the beginning with some physicality and it was still you could do some physical stuff and now it's just so you know three-point happy and rip and run and you can't guard no matter that I would have just lost my mind or I lost my money too well look man you've been great before we got you anything else you want to get off your chest no man just watch I got a lot of a lot of cool TV stuff I got a I'm doing another we got the sugar nightlife rights so I'm doing a death row story with one of producers of power wow so so you're doing a lot with the producer yeah I'm doing a lot of so is that gonna be a movie a documentary it's gonna be a series a series I want I you know my friend of mine my best friend probably she helped me get everything because it's sugar nights nice to get all the the legal stuff side handle but I always saw it like I'm a huge pop fan as you can see and you look at my house you know so I always want to be able to tell that that death row was such a crucial part of history in the music you know what where else did you have Tupac and Snoop and Dr. Dre and Sugar Night and Warren G and Nate Nate dog and Daz and corrupt you know me it was just such an amazing time so I always wanted to be able to tell that story from the standpoint of let's do a let's do a series so you can develop every character because when you do a movie like you know we talked about the pocket move before we on film like in 90 minutes it's hard to tell someone's life story you know straight out of comp it was a good movie but how do you tell 15 years of content 20 years of content in 90 minutes you know so I was a huge fan of Norcos and I was just like I love the way that even though Pablo was a dirty dog they humanized I mean you still cheered for Pablo at some point you felt bad from at some points you know what I mean so that's what I really wanted to be able to do with this death row thing is really develop every character and tell the true story because there's so many myths and you think about it I mean death row was you know a two year like a real two year power run you know in the midst of the 90s where you know they were a half a billion dollar industry in two years you know what I mean so who would have known if you know Puck stayed alive and the business stayed how big they could have been the biggest record label ever you know what I mean so and being a West Coast dude that's what I grew up on so it was just a passion of mine to be able to to have the honor to to work on that project and get the best people like I said around me again and do all these people honor well look man it's been an honor talking with you great stuff for real appreciate it thanks a lot thank you for coming through man