 Aloha, my name is Steven Philip Katz and the show is Shrink Rap, Hawaii and have you got a treat and I've got a treat today because my guest sitting next to me is and I'm going to put my specs on so I could read this woman's incredible accomplishments and this is just a tiny part of it. My guest is Dr. Ruth Hydrick, welcome Dr. Ruth, you told me that you like to be called. Yeah, I love Dr. Ruth. Let me read what it says on the back of her baseball card, can you see this baseball card up here? Let me see if we can get somebody to zoom in on that. Maybe not. Yes? No? No? Okay, I'll just read it. It says, winner of 900 trophies, six Ironman triathlons, eight gold medal senior Olympics, 67 marathons including Boston, New York and Moscow, the Great Wall of China, world fitness record at the famed Cooper Clinic, Dallas, Texas, named one of the 10 fitness women in North America, breast cancer survivor, author, a race for life, chef, a cookbook, raw book, senior fitness and lifelong running co-host, healing you, ready a show featured in the documentary, forks over knives and that's just a quick synopsis. So it's really amazing what you've accomplished and it's hard to know where to begin but as a therapist my question is always how, why and how, like why and how, how did this start for you? Well, let me see, I guess survival, if you want to know the bottom line, survival, I started running back in 1968 when I read a book called Aerobics and had at the age of 33 back then had started seeing signs of aging, I didn't like that, all getting flabby and having trouble controlling my weight and when I read Aerobics and it was so logical, you know, do this and this and this and so I tried it and immediately fell in love with running after the first time running a half a mile down the street, turning around half a mile back and felt energized and I thought this is the answer to health. That worked for 14 years, then the lump in my breast right here and it turned out to be cancer and that's the story that I tell in a race for life, couldn't believe that a marathoner by this time could have cancer. And that's how the diet came about, Chef, which is the cookbook that I wrote, Cheap, Healthy, Easy and Fat Free because, you know, eating is such an integral part of our lives, it should be enjoyable, delicious, healthy, you shouldn't have to take medications to lower cholesterol, control blood sugar, diabetes, totally reversible diet, dementia, more and more research is showing that you can prevent and possibly do some reversal, we're not sure about that yet. But bottom line, survival. I found the exercise that worked for me and a lot of other people and the diet that is now still struggling, we haven't convinced everybody. How did you stumble upon this diet? Right after the breast cancer diagnosis, I was still rolling in shock on how this could happen, not sure if I was going to live or die. The doctor said, we don't know if you're going to have three months, three years because it has spread. And I started thinking, what am I going to do now? And I saw this notice in the newspaper that said, wanted women with breast cancer to participate in diet research study. And so I thought, diet, I wonder at that, no, because I studied nutrition in university and no, I eat a very healthy diet, oh, but I'm going to check, find out. So I call this number 262, Kailua Exchange. Got right through it at John McDougal. Now, you old timers might remember who John McDougal is. He made some waves in the medical circles because people thought the same thing I did. You needed chicken and fish to get enough protein, you need dairy to get enough calcium. And so they all thought he was a quack. And what was he saying? That the animal products in your diet are what caused your cancer. And he's looking at my medical records and he said, you know, with a cholesterol of 236, you are at as high a risk of dying of a heart attack as you are the breast cancer. You know, double whammy, wait a minute, Dr. McDougal, I run marathons. This was, you remember Jim Fix, wrote the complete book of running. This was the year before he died of a heart attack, runner, heart attack, so. But he lived longer than his father, right? Oh yeah, when his father died in his 30s, yeah. But he had clogged arteries, coronary arteries, all three of them were really badly clogged. And the good news about that is that would have been reversible if Dr. McDougal could have gotten to him, would have reversed it, cleaned out the arteries. And that's what Dr. McDougal told me. He said, don't worry, your 236 is going to come down. And sure enough, my next blood test was three weeks later and it was down to 160. You dropped it, what, what is that, 70-something points in three weeks? Yeah, three weeks. What was this diet? This diet was fruits and vegetables, whole grains and beans and very few nuts and seeds because they're high fat. No olive oil, no kind of cooking oil. No oil, no, no. It, breakfast was basically oatmeal with some fruit and apple juice instead of milk. And lunch could be, oh let's see, what do I have for lunch? Basically a very large salad when I say, because I'm so active, I still run, bike and swim every day. So I eat a lot. And that's the joy, look at this, you know. And if you saw how much I ate, the bowl, you've seen these salad bowl, mixing bowl sets. It's like that? It's like that. It is that, not like that. It is a bowl that big. So a big bed of leafy greens. I love kale, collards, mixed organic greens. And then fruits and vegetables, whatever I shop at farmer's markets. And for example, for lunch that I had just before coming here, was a whole mango cut up with that and a banana and cinnamon and fresh ginger, lots of cinnamon. I mean I just, like that, the Costco largely. And a little water and some raw oatmeal. That's my big breakfast or lunch. And supper. Does it matter whether it's organic or just off the shelf? First choice organic, second choice off the shelf. So when possible, organic. Get to know your farmer and buy from the farmer's markets. Do you buy a lot of local stuff? Yes. Yes. And supper is potatoes, brown rice, automatic rice cooker, sweet potatoes I love, purple potatoes. The okonomiyaki. The okonomiyaki. Oh my gosh. No pasta? No greens. I don't. You can. That's a hard thing for me to give up. I love my spaghetti. And that's fine. As long as the spaghetti sauce is marinara, no meat. And preferably a whole grain pasta. But I stick to the whole food, whole grains, try to stay away from anything that's processed. It comes in a package. And I say if it had a mother and a liver, don't eat it. And I go one step further, if it has a label, don't eat it. Vegetables don't have labels. That's right. Yeah. And somebody once said, if it has eyes, don't eat it. Yeah. Oh yeah. So this diet helped with the cancer and the cholesterol? Oh my gosh. Yes. Actually, to finish up with the cholesterol, the next blood test, it was down to 129. So you dropped, oh, it was 116 points. No meds. Has it stayed there? Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't go up to 200? Oh no. No, no. And so a lot of people, I could hear people in the background say, oh, but what about the protein? Like, where are you getting your energy from? From fruits and vegetables, primarily. Yeah. That's really all you need. Yeah. Absolutely. All plants have lots of protein, about 10% calories from protein. When newborn babies, when they're born, at their fastest rate of growth, get between 2% to 4% calories from protein. That's all. That's all. But there's a lot of fat in the mother's milk, isn't there? Not a lot, the right amount. Uh-huh. Yeah. So we don't need a lot of fat. And speaking of that, all plants have protein, all plants have fat. Usually the average is about 10% calories from fat. So 80% good carbohydrates, and 10% protein, 10% fat, 80, 10. So good carbohydrates mean like whole grains? Well, fruits and vegetables. And fruits and vegetables. Are 80% carbohydrate, every one of them, except avocados and olives, they're a little higher in fat. Higher in fat. Yeah. But they're okay to eat or no. I limit them. Uh-huh. But then I have this history of breast cancer, so I keep it low fat. So yeah, I think you mentioned to me before that you did the diet instead of the chemo and radiation for the breast cancer? That's right. Right. After I saw... Wasn't that scary? Oh yeah. Especially when I went back to my oncologist and told him the plan, he said, oh my... He said, you can't possibly get enough protein on a diet like that. You can't possibly get enough of the essential fatty acids. He referred me to the other couple of doctors who all said the same thing. Each time I'd go back to Dr. McDougall, they told me this, and he said, oh my gosh, and he'd pull out data. That was the thing that really convinced me for everything he said. It was backed up by research. So how many other people were in this study that you were... Nine. And what would the... You know how the other eight did? You know, I have not followed them, privacy, and plus I was busy, and I was doing so well. It was like being shot out of a cannon. I was traveling, continental airlines wanted to sponsor me to do the Iron Man in New Zealand, and this was after I'd done Kona twice. And then when I got back, I had a first place, this great big trophy that I showed them. And then they said... First place? In New Zealand? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. The diet. I kept telling people, it's the diet. So they sent me to Japan, and then I went to Provo, Utah, and then had a chance to... You mentioned Athens Marathon. I ran the part of the original marathon course when I was there. That's the one. Yeah. That's the one. We got to go to a break. We'll be right back. Don't touch that mouse. We'll be right back with Dr. Ruth Hydrick. Hello. I'm Crystal from Quok Talk. I've got a new show here. You've got to tune in, check out my topics on sensitive, provocative, female issues. So Tuesday mornings, 10 o'clock, don't miss it, it's going to be fun and dangerous. Aloha. My name is Danelia, D-A-N-E-L-I-A. And I'm the other half of the duo, John Newman. We are the co-hosts of Keys to Success, which is live on ThinkTech, live streaming network series weekly on Thursdays at 11 a.m. Aloha. Aloha. Aloha. My name is Josh Green. I serve a senator from the Big Island on the Kona side, and I'm also an emergency room physician. My program here on ThinkTech is called Health Care in Hawaii. I'll have guests that should be interesting to you twice a month. We'll talk about issues that range from mental health care to drug addiction to our health care system and any challenges that we face here in Hawaii. We hope you'll join us. Again, thanks for supporting ThinkTech. Welcome back with my guest, Dr. Ruth Hydrick. And Dr. Ruth, as I was saying during our little break, this sounds like anybody in their right mind would do this because it helps you be healthier, it helps you run iron man's, it helps you live longer. But us average Joe's. I'm Jay Fiedel, and I'm the host of Research in Manoa Mondays from 12 to 1 on ThinkTechHawaii.com. Take a look at us and learn about geophysics, learn about planetology, learn about the ocean and earth sciences at UH Manoa. You'll really enjoy it. So come around. We'll see you then. Sorry about that. I have an unexpected message coming back with Dr. Ruth as I was saying. I have a lot of trouble staying on a diet that doesn't include ice cream and hamburgers and all those terrible things that are going to kill me. They tell me, and you've been saying, basically, if I want to live longer without heart disease or cancer, I should do this diet, and up here, I'm sorry. And dementia. And dementia. Don't we want this? Number one. Right, right. Yeah, number one. Why is it so hard for me and people like me to do this? It just seems like it makes so much sense, but yet, you know, I'll start, I'll be good for a few months, and then I'll fall off the wagon. Yeah, the main problem is you're not supported around you. Everything is against this. We're raised from age two or three to be eating dead animals, and it just continues on through the education. Even our dietitians are still taught about this protein, which is pretty sad. Doctors, most doctors don't know. There are very few exceptions. Doctors like John Hauke, John McDougal, Terry Shantani, will tell you this is the diet for humans. And so it makes it advertising, oh my gosh, advertising. You look at TV and you see ads for all these bad foods on the one hand, and then all these drugs that you need to take. Right, so what you're saying is one of the problems is there's no money incentive for people to eat right. The culture doesn't support the change, and the money is a big one. Agribusiness and the pharmaceutical companies all go the other way, of course. And the lobbyists in Washington, so even our politics doesn't support it. In my case, what made it easy was the medical gun to my head, almost literally. Because he said, you know, even if you did have chemo and radiation, ask your oncologist for any evidence that it extends life because it doesn't. And it ruins the quality of life while you're undergoing it. But underneath there's something about you. I mean, the fact that even before all of this happened to you, you just seem to be the kind of person that strives, strives, strives to be the top of whatever it is you're doing. Do you have any idea what that's about? Why? If we could bottle that. Well, I was the oldest of four, and I don't know, whether it was in school, I always wanted to be, you know, straight A's the best, and I went to Kailua Elementary School, and my grandmother was teaching there at the time. And so, you know, that makes you behave and be a good student. And did your father also set a very high standard? Fairly, not in education, because he and my mother got married at seventeen. And they had you how old were they? Yeah. Pretty young. I was conceived when she was sixteen, and I'll give you a clue in a second. Okay, you're totally honest, which is refreshing. So what about your siblings? Have they adopted your diet? No. Why can't you have a good family list? Yeah, I know, because we're never profits in our family, in hometown. And it's like I get recognized more in foreign countries, like Canada. It's hard. So you'll go to some foreign country, and you're a celebrity, and in Kailua, like you're just somebody else. Yeah. In terms of what happened with the cancer, I want to pick up on that thread. I had serious bone pain. They were giving me narcotics, and I was two o'clock in the morning pacing the floor in agony. Because of bone pain? Bone pain had spread. My liver enzymes were sky-high. They were in the four digits. And anyway, I have this tumor in my lung, which they were following. They didn't want to do the surgery, because in a place, and you said they would have to cut open your chest. We don't know what it is. Let's just follow it for a while. So I was followed for, oh, five years, and it turned out that the tumor encapsulated. It's still there. It has not grown since back in 1982. The liver enzymes have been normal ever since, and the bones are fine. So this happened within weeks of the dietary change. And then, right after, at the same time as the diagnosis, and seeing Dr. McDougal's notice in the paper, I happened to be watching television, just because I hadn't gone back to work yet, and happened to see ABC Wide World Sports, Iron Man Triathlon. And in 1982, it was done here on Oahu, that's where it started. I had already done the whole little marathon several times. I thought, oh, I know how to swim. I couldn't do that. And then a bike, I got an old rusty bike in the garage, I'm going to do the Iron Man. And then it hit me, lady, you've just been diagnosed with cancer. Then I thought, you know, I feel so much better. I started running the day after my surgery, which is down to the doctors. And then I thought, oh, the diet is working. I know it is. And then I thought, oh, but I'm 47 years old. These few, they were, I think, 20 that had done the Iron Man. They're all young, healthy people. And I'd be competing against these young people. In my 40s, I thought, God, what have I come in? No, I'm going to do it. I found out that I was, at that point, would have been the oldest woman I've ever done it, talking about challenge. Oh, boy. So I dove into the training. And I swam every day, I biked every day, signed up for courses, and coaches, and just went full head into doing the Iron Man. And the more I did, the healthier and fitter I got, wow, I got the exercise down, now I've got the diet down, and now we've got to tell people. It's easy for me because I had that motivation. I had that medical gun to my head. It's either chemo or radiation. You also had some sort of a belief that you could do this. Not really. No, I was worried. When you signed up for the Iron Man, I worried. You were worried. You didn't know if you would succeed. In fact, in a race for life, I talk about how seven weeks before my first Iron Man, I was training in Kona, and I got hit by a truck while on the bike. Seven weeks before the race. Seven weeks before the race. I was doing, practicing the course. I'm in the Kona hospital. And Frank Farron, who was the Iron Man physician, was there attending me. And I had shattered pelvis, concussion, they handed in the hospital, they handed me my helmet in two halves. I had amnesia, which was a good thing. No fear. No fear. I wanted to get back on the road and a broken leg. So Frank said, Dr. Farron said, there's no way you're going to be able to do the Iron Man. Just forget about it for this year. Just plan on doing it next year. And I'm thinking, okay, he doesn't know about the diet. I do. This is my secret weapon. Get me in the water. So as soon as I got out of the hospital, into the pool, started water running, stationary bike, swimming, and I was recovering so fast that at, I think it was about four weeks I was in for a checkup. Still on crutches. Now, the pelvis, the X-ray showed healing was very accelerated, is doing really well. So I said, when can I start running? And he said, try and stand up without the crutches and walk. He said, I'm going to walk now. Wow! I'm going to, so, you know, that was it. I got to the start of that, 1984. This is now two years after 1982, I did a 10-man, 1983 did a 10-man and a half Iron Man, and 84 did a 10-man and that and 84. So anyway, six weeks after the accident. Yeah, seven weeks after the accident. So I'm sitting there, standing there at the Kona that had moved over by 84, getting ready for the start. And I thought, I know I can do the swim because I had done the Waikiki rough water as part of my training. And if I have to stop there, that's okay. And then I'd done the bike, stationary bike. Well, your training was on the state wall after the accident. Yeah, yeah. And so I thought, well, you know, if I have to drop out of the bike, that's okay too. And as it turned out, the swim was fine, the bike was fine, and I thought, and now I had not run for seven weeks in his fracture. And so I thought, you know, the way it was set up, if you know the Kona, the start was at the King Cam there, and the Keiho Kona was where the transition was. So it's six miles. And I ended up there, all my stuff's there. And I knew I couldn't run a marathon at that point. So I thought, well, I'm going to walk, run back to the King Cam where the finish is. So I started walking, and then a little bit of run, a little bit more run, a little bit more run. This is, it's working. I got to the King Cam, and then there's a steep hill up to the Queen Kei Highway. Yeah. And I started running up it. And I got to that point, I thought, maybe I can keep going. Got to the airport, and I thought, wow. And ended up doing the whole thing, 14 hours, 47 minutes. And I thought, oh, this diet is so powerful. And I start getting some publicity. The Polly Times was one of those local papers. They had a front page story. And I took that to Dr. McDougal. Now, see, this is before all of the publicity about continental and going to. This is what led to continental taking a look at this crazy woman. So, but that's very interesting, because people think, including myself, just before you told this story, that believing you can do something is a big part. But you said, I didn't know. And you just said, well, I'll just go and see what happens. That's a very important lesson, is that you can have doubts, lots of doubts. Because I think that's a lot of people let that stop them, like the fear of failing, of not completing a whole, whatever it is, writing a book, running a race, changing your diet. Maybe it's like a one day to time kind of thing. Most of the emails I get from my website, which instantly is RuthHydrick.com, is from people, most of them are from people who have just gotten a diagnosis of some kind. There's Chris in London, who we've been emailing back and forth. He is 39 years old. He's overweight. He's been put on drugs. He's got a 10 year old son. He's afraid that he's not going to live much longer because of all his problems. He wants to change his diet. And so with somebody helping, I mean, I don't think you can just buy a book and do it by yourself. You really need to establish rapport with someone who's done it. And there are lots of us around. I mentioned the local doctors. So then the takeaway here is you need to get some help from somebody. Support. And I can talk to you for the rest of the day. But they told me that my time is up already. And it's taken me three or four months to get you on here because you're still traveling all over the world. And I just really wanted to thank Dr. Ruth for coming on the show. Thank you for doing it. It's really been an honor. Important. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you people.