 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen or better as we have participants from all over the world. Good morning Kate in the US it is very early for you today and thank you for participating. Very good evening to you Lindsay in the Pacific in Asia. It's very good to see is that late for you here and here in burn in Vienna it's 11 o'clock, so we have the lack of enjoying the rest of the day later on. This is the third webinar in our trilogy dedicated to e-commerce hosted by the UPU Consultative Committee with the very good help of the International Bureau of the Universal Postal Union. Kindly note that this webinar will be recorded to the benefit of the UPU community and will be made available after the webinar on our website. The webinar is dedicated to redefining the universal service obligation in the changing digital postal environment rather hot topic already for the last couple of decades and presumably so for the changing digital environment in the coming month and years. I am very honored to have the possibility to welcome quite a distinguished panel and also a very prominent keynote speaker today. Let me introduce the webinar to you all. The universal service obligation is not a one size fits all proposition. Each country must define a universal service obligation solution based on the needs of its citizens. It suggests that the place to start in refining the universal service obligation is by understanding what citizens want and need from their postal system in the 21st century. But we also must ask, what are they willing to pay for it? In many countries the universal service obligation is at the heart of the nation's postal system and yet it is not explicitly defined in law. It also has remained unchanged for the decades in some countries despite the dramatic changes in communications and commerce and more recently through the severe impact of COVID-19 pandemic. With this short introduction, I would like to introduce our first speaker. She will give us a presentation on aspects of the universal service obligation with a clear angle also coming from the United States of America. The presenter is Kate Muth. She is the Executive Director of the International Mailers Advisory Group, a U.S.-based trade association that represents international mailers and shippers. IMAG, as it is called, its core mission is to address the barriers to the efficient flow of information and goods across borders. Members are up of consolidators, hardware and software solution providers and platforms and marketplaces. IMAG has been a member of the Consultative Committee since 2004. And with that, Kate, I would like to give the floor to you. Thank you, Kate. Thank you. Thank you very much, Walter. Thank you to the International Bureau and Alexander for inviting me to speak today. I just wanted to note that my comments are my own. I'm speaking in my own capacity and they don't necessarily reflect the views of IMAG. And that I will be referencing a number of reports and surveys and work done. And I do have a reference slide, which I'll share. I'll put in the chat box at the end. So thank you very much, everyone. My comments, as Walter said, will be from very American perspective. And I know we can be accused of doing that on occasion. But since you set today's start time from a European perspective, I think it's, I think it's fair. But actually, the real reason we that I'm going to have sort of a US perspective is because we're such an outlier here. Every other developed nation has refined or defined or redefined their USO many years ago. And as Walter said, posts around the world have held to a USO of some kind, generally that the postal operator would adhere to a set of standards of minimally acceptable service for its citizens. And that includes things such as frequency of collection and delivery, density of post offices, quality of service, etc. So I think it often surprises people to learn that in the United States, the USO is not defined in law. Another case, even though the postal service is a $73 billion entity makes up half of the world's bit male volume. It goes to 161 million addresses, and has more than a half a million employees, and yet it does not operate under an explicit USO. So is an independent agency of the government. It's, it's what's called an independent establishment of the federal government. So the laws of the United States authorize and organize the USPS or the postal service. And it also sets its public service obligations. These public service obligations are what we generally recognize as the USO. And in a 2008 study, our regulator, which is the Postal Regulatory Commission, found that the USO consists of seven attributes, which includes geographic scope, product range, access to postal services, delivery, which for us has been six days a week. For as long as I've been in this business pricing, and here we include a uniform rates for stamp correspondence, and, and for a category from called media mail, the quality of service element and enforcement mechanism. But again, law does not include a clear definition of the USO. One of our oversight agencies, which is the Office of Inspector General, has, has defined it or has called it a collection of legal requirements and regulations that really only provide broad guidance and they're subject to interpretation. However, these obligations come with a really big price tag. The regulator estimates the annual cost to the postal service, providing universal service was $5.3 billion in 2019. Of course, someone has to pay for this. In the United States, someone is the posted rate payer. The post service earns operating revenues from the sale of postage. It's not appropriated public funds for this purpose. This year is a bit unusual and that Congress has provided $10 billion in COVID cost reimbursement and Congress, which is our legislative body, is also considering legislation to pay for electric vehicles. But otherwise, and since the real, you know, since the post service was reorganized in its current form, some 40 years ago, it does not get public funds for operations. So that's a $5.3 billion cost that the USO is. Post service lost has lost $87 billion over the past 14 years. And while some of that is, is it's pre funding requirements for, for retirees and for healthcare and pension. It's, that's a huge amount of money so we need to figure out this USO expense. And it should be done as part of an overriding reform effort that also addresses how do we modernize the postal services business model. In the United States, we do this backwards, we don't start with updating the USO, we don't start with figuring out what a level of services Americans need today. So we look to jam these public service obligations into whatever reform legislation is put forward. We take what you know kind of a round hole into a square peg approach. So what we should do first is determine what Americans need from their postal service in an age of digital communications and commerce. And then the next question is, what are they willing to pay for it. I think we would find that people don't need everything they have today, and they certainly don't need that if it means higher postage crisis digital communications have changed the equation. For example, do we need 34,000 post offices, one third of retail purchases occur through an alternative channel, such as online. For our USO it doesn't really provide any specific guidance, the number of post offices, the Postal Service must have doesn't say explicitly that you have to have X number of post offices. Yet it says the Postal Service cannot close a post office purely for economic reasons. There's not a lot of guidance there. Another consideration, a whole generation of Americans and indeed a whole generation around the world has grown up with the mobile phone as its primary tool for communications, and also really for commerce when you think about it. These consumers likely to pay their bills online receive their bills digitally. They do not write letters, certain ages don't even write emails any longer I mean they text everything. So their mail moment if they even have one is seeing a package at the doorstep. I think so with that does the Postal Service need the same monopoly protections at once did, given first its changing role or its role what has primarily been as a deliverer of advertising mail, and now increasingly as a deliverer of packages. And just to think about this a little bit in context it's not really and it's not really something that's brand new struggle we should be having single piece first class mail. What's stamped correspondence in around the world has been in decline since 1990, like trying to version has has been at work for 30 years. So this is when most posts began reviewing their USO and liberalizing their posts office. This is when the European Commission postal directive was was in play. So in light of all this change. It simply does not make sense for today's USO to mean the same thing it did 20 or 30 years ago, let alone just 10 years ago. Back the Office of Inspector General which I said was one of our oversight agencies here in the United States conducted a quantitative survey, better understand what postal services Americans, most valued. So, these kind of quantist quantitative studies have been done other countries to assess and evaluate their USOs. I think the IG survey was the first of its kind here in the United States. We've been a lot of qualitative work, nothing that really had a quanta quantitative study which gave the respondents a trade off between levels of service and price. The good thing about a quantitative survey is that it's not, it's not biased toward the status quo. So for example, if you just ask people, do you want to keep your neighborhood post office. Well, the answer is probably yes I mean people don't really like to give up what they've had and they don't necessarily volunteer to get rid of something. If you ask them, do you want to keep your post office open, if it were to cost you another five cents for a stamp. Well the answer might be no. And this is what report the OIG report was was getting at. And what they found is that both consumers and businesses value lower prices. So in other words, both might be willing to accept lower levels of service to keep prices from rising sharply. And then what about six day delivery delivery six days a week. Well you would think in the United States this is something Americans love as much as binge watching television shows or something, because our legislators, our legislators have baked this into the law. And it's been actually included as a provision even in the latest reform bills that are under consideration. But it actually seems that many citizens don't necessarily care about mail delivery six days a week. The OIG survey found most respondents were indifferent to Saturday delivery of letters, but they like Saturday delivery of parcels. Another exercise kind of similar in nature, but done by a university here University of Maryland. It was an exercise that walked respondents through a process called policy making simulation. And this is a process that if you were writing laws you would you would actually do but this was this was done among respondents. And the policy question was, how would you fix the postal service. What was interesting is that two out of three respondents recommended eliminating Saturday delivery of letters, but keeping Saturday delivery of priority mail and packages. Again, interesting ideas about what our USO should be when you ask the citizens. Another interesting finding of the OIG survey was that Americans preferred door and curb delivery over cluster boxes, or parcel lockers. And those I know are very popular in other countries around the world. These are useful insights for us for reexamining the USO. And the steep rise in e-commerce delivery this past year due to the pandemic, which was already sort of building upon an e-commerce boom. A new question to ask might be what a centralized box suit our needs, if it could also handle packages of varying sizes. So what if the mailbox monopoly were lifted and other carriers could deliver to that box. Maybe the equation would change. And these are the kinds of questions we should be asking now. And so speaking of the COVID pandemic, I think here around the world but again just from a US perspective, the pandemic has really enlightened us on a few important things about our nation's postal system. First, postal service is an essential service. This is understood by Americans now and also that it's an important part of the nation's infrastructure. Second, the need for package delivery to all addresses, rural areas, unprofitable addresses, that that's also very, very important. In fact, essential. And we found that the post service, you know, it can't and it didn't put volume restrictions on its customers as the private sector did during peak season. I think we also found something very important, particularly here about the COVID pandemic and in relation to the postal service that we need for we have a need for a safe and secure mechanism for voting by mail. So 135 million ballots were processed and delivered during the 2020 general election. You know I heard in our first webinar that the series of speakers there said that e-commerce was indispensable to a functioning society. And if that's true and I believe I believe it is, then e-commerce and delivery have to be for everyone. In that same vein, secure and timely delivery of ballots is indispensable to a functioning democracy. So I would list these as core, I would list secure and safe election as a core public service obligation of posts. And it's evident we need to redefine the USO and the pandemic would suggest new factors to consider. Now would be a great time to dig in. So where do we start. Well, we have, we can look to other countries for ideas we have excellent examples from around the world. I know a number of countries have reduced the frequency of delivery of letters in urban areas such as New Zealand and Norway and the Netherlands. In Italy have reduced it in rural areas, our posts have reduced the delivery speeds on certain products, easing service standards or like Belgium they've introduced a lower speed product that satisfies the USO. Many have allowed changes to retail access locations, allowed posts to enter into new lines of business. All of these should be part of a broad policy debate as digitalization makes some of the current USO requirements unnecessary, but raises questions about some new ones. So as we work toward determining the minimum level of service citizens need, we must ensure that segments of the population are not cut off from society, that we protect captive customers, but we don't distort competition. In my last little bit here I just want to talk about how do we pay for it, because you can't, you just can't untie the two and that's kind of where things get stuck here is how do we pay for the USO. At the moment, our public service obligation as I said is paid for by mailers and shippers. Again, every part of our postal operation is paid for through the sale of postage. So we are a sender paid system. And you'll often you'll often hear commercial mailers say well we're the ones that pay for the inefficiencies and the extra costs in the system. And I agree, especially as someone who represents a segment of the mailing industry, but it's a two sided market. That is the recipient or the consumer. If they don't find value in what we're sending, then mail is irrelevant or worthless. So we need to be careful that we don't become like that classic example of a two sided market, the yellow pages telephone directory. And I don't know if every country had a yellow, yellow pages but when was the last time you saw hard copy phone directory. So it's important to all parties that we fix this. And it would be that the public service portions of the postal service are paid for by public funds. Congress would appropriate funds for the parts of the system that are deemed the public service obligations that are deemed the USO. These are the things that the post service wouldn't provide if it were regular profit making business, or kind of similarly we tweak that a little and we turn we determine what is the minimum level of service citizens need from a modern postal system. And then if Congress insists that the post service has to keep 34,000 post offices open or they, they have to serve every address six days a week or they can't close a facility in some members district. Then Congress pays for those things we took we tally that up, and we say here's the bill that public funds will pay for. And with these approaches, Americans would be sure to let Congress know what they want in need from their postal system, and how much they're willing to pay for it, because they are paying for it. This is a heavy lift, because it requires a comprehensive and rational public policy discussion, it means rolling up our sleeves and doing real policy work. Frankly, our legislative body Congress, no longer does serious policy work in this country. It's as an optimist to. Well, maybe I'm a skeptical optimist, but partisan politics, two minute sound bites and social media. You know what you're going to post on social media drive decisions in this country, or in decisions really we've becoming a legislative body of no, no, and stopping progress, and not finding ways to move legislation. So Congress works for such an important issue. As one congressional aid had said a few years ago, Congress works in small and medium steps, and unfortunately with the postal service, we are dealing with big steps. So my last, my last paragraph here my last point, are we doomed to this current system. I think maybe, but I also think we have opportunities. The Postal Regulatory Commission has opened a proceeding a docket as they say and it's open to public comments. It's on the methodology that the, that the regulator uses to value the USO. Perhaps the PRC that the regulator could expand upon the stock it and start the process of assessing the level of service the nation needs in a digital economy. It's an independent entity, it makes sense that the regulator could take this task on, or the postal service could put forward what we call a greenfield approach kind of a blank slate, start from scratch and say this is what we think a modern universal service obligation looks like. Then they work with shape with stakeholders with the mailing community with the citizens with Congress with other bodies to shape the policy. The point is we stop waiting for Congress to lead. Unfortunately, I think the most the postal service Mr Golden opportunity and it's recently released 10 year strategic plan, which doesn't explicitly address the universal service obligation. Frankly, the posters didn't seem particularly interested in engaging with stakeholders on this effort. We are ready to engage. Here we are, some of us at five o'clock in the morning to discuss and debate this topic and to learn from each other. I think there's a growing appetite to tackle this issue in certain corners of our ecosystem. And I look forward to hearing from colleagues today from other corners of the world, learning more about how they refine their USO, and hopefully helping us to move the ball forward. Thank you, Kate. Fantastic. Thank you so much and I'm really glad that we decided to record that session because there has been so much information coming from your side. And it's also good for the panelists that they know that they don't do not have to write it all down or recorded separately. It will be made available. And I think it also shows what kind of distinguished and knowledgeable members we have at the consultative committee to share with our colleagues at the member state level, and also at the designated level, how to participate with the customers with the wider personal sector players. And with that, I'm moving on, moving, moving to another very distinguished panelist. I'm moving to Lindsay Welch. She is not only the vice chair of the consultative committee. So also very dedicated to the work with the wider postal sector players and with the UPU community. He is the International Relations and Policy Director of New Zealand Post, the designated postal operator of New Zealand. He is responsible for managing New Zealand's international postal policies and postal and governmental relationship, and its representation in international treaty and policy bodies, like the UPU. And with that, Lindsay, let me ask you the first two questions coming from the perspective of a designated operator, of course, as the representative of a designated operators. Are there any brief general observations you can share in relation to the universal service obligation, and some of the changes you have seen. And what has led to them. And let me put the second question to you as well. When discussing the digital postal environment. Can you describe some of the digital aspects that are you seeing in the global postal marketplace, and how that is redefining the role of postal operators. And with that, Lindsay, over to you. Thank you. Thank you. I think it's thank you, Volta. That's that's quite a bit of ground to cover, but I'll do my best. Thank you, Kate. Sorry, I just wanted to add that was an excellent presentation that was extremely informative. And I'm an operator too, but we don't always see the same aspects in our colleagues and counterparts overseas. So, so thanks for the ground you covered there. Turning back to your question, Volta, and in terms of the USO and changes we've seen and what may have led to them. I think we can start with the easy part first. We've seen a substantial decline in traditional transactional mail, the bank statements, the invoices, the insurance premiums, government communications, even direct marketing by mail. And this is primarily through electronic substitution. There's no surprise there. Kate alluded to it as well. Email messaging services and now as as my son tells me he doesn't do Facebook and he doesn't do text. It's Instagram is the communications mechanism, a quick photograph and a splash of text. So what we've seen as designated operators is a massive decline in what had been our core volume. In response to that, one of the things we've done and I think it's global is we've sought to manage costs in the face of this decline. And one of the ways we've done that is we've sought to change delivery frequency if you like so. Kate alluded to five and six day a week delivery we certainly had that here, but some countries are down to one day a week delivery. And we have a Monday, Wednesday, Friday and a Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday delivery cycle in urban areas in between three to six days a week in rural areas. And we've we've also responded in changing delivery modes. So we've seen an integration between letter carriers and parcel carriers, essentially consolidating the delivery network to try and achieve whatever economic benefits and cost reductions we can squeeze out of it. Also, in the volumes of declining, as I said, but that also means revenues are declining and certainly designated operators around the world have taken certain measures to try and offset that revenue gap. And one of those things is increasing prices. There's only so far that that that elasticity will work, but that is something that has to happen or has happened, particularly when you're covering the cost of fixed cost networks. And I think it's fair to say that it is an aspect of the USO in terms of affordability that we speak to in the Constitution and Convention. So designated operators, like myself, we're seeking ways to decrease operational costs in a largely fixed cost networks. And a lot of that's through through automation of processing sites and the shift of automation, we're not buying letter sorters anymore, but we are certainly working on consolidated plants which move packets and parcels and sort them in an automated sense. And that's both domestically and in our international processing sites. So in effect, these are all briefly, these are all approaches to maintaining the USO, but doing so in a modified manner, which is answering what we have to in terms of managing our cost and our business through the appropriate service standards, cost structures, product pricing. And if you like an integrated approach to the processing. You're muted. Lindsay you muted yourself. Thank you Kate my apologies. Walter I hope that goes some way to answering your first question. Would you like me to to try and roll on to the next piece which would you be kind enough to just refresh me because I've gone on a wee bit. Yes, yes please go on to the second question. Should I ask the second question again. If you could refresh my memory please. Yes, of course, when discussing the digital postal environment. Can you describe some of the digital aspects that are you seeing in the global postal marketplace and how that is redefining the role of postal operators. Okay, where to start so so e commerce is is a part of the digital postal growth, be it domestic or international, and it's continuing to evolve. Certainly, I think we'd all say we initially saw strong and sustained growth, but the makeup of the items being carried is changing. We're also seeing a decline in volumes from some of what you might call the original engine room exporting markets, but we're not always seeing a one for one replacement of that volume appearing in new export markets. Now as a designated operator that's telling me that some of our core volume. It's migrated from the postal channel to another the commercial channel obviously. And that's a concern for us, but it's it's something we see so I'll cover it. I think another major area of change and development has been electronic advanced data or EAD or AED as at some time described, and it's it's driving digital exchanges. This is growing and will only continue to do so as more national border control agencies start to require digital content for border clearance purposes. And that's all aspects of clearance be it fiscal clearance for customs duties and taxes security clearance for that the safety of the the domestic market or feel like the receiving market and also in countries like New Zealand who are grand isolation and island states in terms of biosecurity clearance. Another digital driver that that we need to be aware of and we're seeing is is and forgive the pun is about visibility visibility of items and dispatches and that's not just. That's not just one directional the senders there's receivers there's the entire postal supply chain participants designated operators air carriers surface freight carriers senders and receivers. All these participants and what is the postal supply chain require a degree of data exchange to enable visibility for individual items up to complete dispatches. And we know senders want to know that they've sent their item and it's getting to the receiver receivers have a high degree of interest in following and tracking their product to that satisfaction moment when it arrives. So postal operators are having to respond to data provisioning and exchange requirements. And they're having to build robust point of sale systems data capture mechanisms and then serving these up to customers and as diverse as individual consumers through to small office home office through to micro small medium enterprises right up to merchant platforms. And whilst we're doing that we're still having to maintain timeliness of data exchange and it's completeness and a consistency of quality. And this is a new and it's a growing layer of complexity for designated operators to answer. And finally, another aspect that that's probably worth thinking about is that e-commerce penetration is a growing percentage of retail spending. And this is an important focus for postal operators. We think 1% growth that represents a really significant right migration from retail purchasing in a domestic and international moving those products into a domestic and international supply postal supply chain and delivering them. And this is driving the need for postal operators to diversify and expand their market offerings. Market demand is growing for a full postal suite of digitally enabled solutions beyond just standard delivery of letters packets and parcels, but to include elements like returns, reverse logistics, speed or date and time certain delivery and delivery preferences for the consumer. I don't want it to go to my house. I want it to go to my place of residence. I want to go to a parcel locker and I might change my mind as that item is in motion. So these are all. There are change of the role of the postal operator. They're a redefinition of the role of the postal operator that these might I'd accept these might not all be part of the universal service obligation, but they're digitally driven change for the role of the postal operator. Walter, I'll stop there but I hope that it will go some way to answering your question. Yeah, great. Yeah. No, I'm very grateful to you Lindsay, because now we got the aspect of the designated operator coming from a very well developed country, of course, we had the inputs coming from the international mailers and chippers. When putting together the webinar, we thought it is highly important to also look into the regulation legal parts of the whole change possible digital disruption and that is the reason why I would like to introduce Ms. Mara Schind, the head of a section of pts for postal issues in Sweden, that is the Swedish postal regulator. She has been working with postal issues at the Swedish regulator for post pts since 2005. In 2015 and 16, she was appointed by the Swedish Ministry to to to to participate in an inquiry, over viewing the Swedish postal regulation. The main part of the inquiries suggested legislative changes have since been implemented. But Emma, let me ask you two questions to start with. Why is it so important that international postal regulation is flexible. And what should the universal service obligation look like in the country in an area of digital communications rapid growth in e-commerce and the persuasiveness of social media. And with that, Emma, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you very much, Walter. And thank you International Bureau for organizing this very interesting webinar. And I would also thank you Catherine and Lindsay for very interesting presentations. And I could really say that I can see the same development in Sweden as you can see in US and New Zealand, which is really interesting and nice to discuss here. I also want to say that the Swedish regulator pts. We have recently published a report Swedish postal market 2021, and I will send you the link in the chat below afterwards. So you can read more about what we see in Sweden. But then wanted to start with your first question. Why is it so important that international postal regulation is flexible. Well, as we have heard earlier here at this webinar. We know that the starting point when regulating postal services should be the societies and the users needs of postal services. And when we look at how much the world differs due to your graphical, demographical and economic conditions and also degree of digitalization. It's not difficult to understand that this variation is reflected in the society's needs of postal services. And a one size fits all regulation as we see in Sweden is not sustainable in the long run, and not an environmental nor economical. So what should the USO look like in a country in an era of digital communication. What we have seen in Sweden in the user studies that pts has made recent years is that the need of postal services differs a lot more between different user groups now than it has ever done before. And this is an outcome of the digitalization. And uses that for different reasons don't use digital solutions. They still need a quite rapid transit time for ordinary letters when communicating with authorities health cares and paying the bills. But at the same time, the majority of the population that use digital communication. For them collection and delivery of letters could be diminished down to two days a week. These user groups, they are more interested in delivery of small packets as a result of e shopping. And they needed some days a week and delivered. Not necessary by by the home premises that nearby. And this means that universal service needs to be more flexible than before and contain a wider range of services with different service levels. Thank you, Emma. Thank you very much. Thank you. You, you will come back again. I have another two questions for you, of course. But with that, I would like to go to a slightly different perspective. Again, which is very, very important, of course. And this is the, the labor force, our distinguished postal workers who are, of course, we establishing the postal network on the daily basis. And I'm very happy to introduce Dimitris, tiered Iraqis, who is the director of post and logistics platform and agency workers from uni global Dimitris. I have only two questions to start with. How far can postal diversification foster the financial sustainability of the different universal service obligations. And does digitalization call for an expensive, in the universal service redefinition? Dimitris, with that, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you, Walter. Firstly, allow me to thank the International Bureau for organizing this webinar for the invitation. I also would like to thank the panelists for very insightful information. As Walter introduced, I will be giving not necessarily a different but somewhat from a different perspective, which is the postal trade unions and the postal workers view regarding the definitions of the universal service obligations. So, without any further ado with regard to your questions, Walter. I think I will start off by saying that the global COVID pandemic has shed light on the essential role postal services play in society. Postal services have proven their importance and worth to the public and enabled our economies and societies to keep going for almost two years now. This was only made possible by the dedication and work of postal workers in different national circumstances. These services are services of general economic interest and social interest and as such, fulfill an essential mission defined as the universal service obligation. Now the COVID crisis has accelerated the general trends that the other panelists also mentioned of declining male volumes, and contributed to the expansion and surge of e-commerce and the growth of parcel delivery, notably the small packet. To compensate for declining male volumes, postal operators looked to diversify their postal offerings. Now postal diversification, in addition to being an economic imperative for many posts, must be coupled with decent wages and good working conditions for all workers in the sector through effective collective bargaining. There is a clear need, as we have heard also from the other panelists, to redefine and extend the scope of the USO. It must be adapted to societal changes, notably digitalization. Now digitalization has certainly disrupted the way we live and the way we purchase goods. It has translated into an unprecedented surge in parcel delivery. USO definitions, which guarantee nationwide accessibility to all citizens, must include this parcel delivery. This is not the case for all national definitions. The USO has a role to play in financial and social inclusion. The post through its nationwide network and expertise can provide banking services, which enable financial access to all citizens, notably the most vulnerable, for example. In discussing USO extension, legislators and regulators must consider the terms and conditions of the workers performing those diversified services, be it financial, be it digital or others. Postal diversification to respond to your question can indeed foster the financial sustainability of the different USOs. Only if it is brought forward as a democratic choice by the citizens in a given country. As I said before, this diversification must be coupled with good wages and working conditions, adequate training and retraining. And most importantly, it must serve the public missions of postal services in every country. As you have said at the beginning, there is no one size fits all solution. Postal diversification must meet societal needs first and foremost. Now, in the digital era, the motivations for redefining the USOs must be the greater goals of social and territorial cohesion. In many parts of the world, notably rural areas, postal services are the only means of communication and social inclusion. Without challenging, however, the importance of letters and whilst we witness the continued growth of e-commerce, parcels have and have become an art of crucial importance for national economies and can support SME growth in the regions. Now, when redefining the USOs in the different national contexts, legislators and regulators need to enact a full citizen right to regular and affordable parcel delivery. At uniform prices in a national territory to send and to receive parcels. This, from the perspective of the labor unions, requires strong market regulations that guarantees good working conditions, decent wages and a high quality of service. I will stop here, Walter. I'm sure there are many other questions that are pending, but I will respond like that to your first questions. Thank you. Thank you, Dimitris. Thank you. And let me let me add one thing, of course, and as all the participants can actually see, Robert is a very active member of the UPU Consultative Committee and we are very proud to have such an active member. Thank you very much, Dimitris. And let me move on. Let me move on again, again to Kate. I still have two questions. And one is one question is a little bit coming, coming back to some of your statements but the first one is of course, a little bit more focused on the COVID-19 pandemic. Has the COVID-19 pandemic changed civil society's understanding of the public service mission of posts and I still struggle to understand why is the United States so far behind the rest of the developed world when it comes to reforming and updating the universal service obligation. Kate, the floor is yours. Thank you, Walter. And I have excellent insights from the panel and got me thinking about a few things. I think the, especially what Dimitris just said, I think I hinted at it as well and will echo that it's understood that the postal service, the postal system and workers are essential services. I think that was absolutely highlighted with the pandemic. But we're having a debate here in the United States about infrastructure and spending on infrastructure on a broader scale and what does that mean? What's infrastructure? It's not just bridges and tunnels. It's digital growth. It's broadband. It's expanding aspects of the economy that maybe we didn't think about as infrastructure in the past but clearly are. And the postal service is, in my estimation, a part of that and should be a part of that. And I think that we start to understand that it is an essential service and the necessary piece of the infrastructure. And you know, one thing here that we'll forget is that the postal service is, it underpins or it supports a $1.6 trillion mailing and shipping industry. And so it is mind boggling to me that we cannot seem to, it's finally getting some attention but unfortunately negative because service was so bad for the past year and peak season and now there's a threat of prices increasing. And that's when people start paying attention and that's the unfortunate part. But I do think the pandemic has tried to, has elevated the postal service in the public's eyes and the necessity of it. And as I said, also with voting by mail. And unfortunately, you know, there's a lot of crazy discussion here about that. That's not helpful at all. The value of that was just unbelievable. And I think, you know, I think there's something like 40 countries around the world that do their general elections through the mail. So again, that's another piece of it. But I don't quite know what the answer is to how do we, how do we engage our policymakers. I honestly don't know how we do that. But I think the fact that Americans care a lot about their postal system, and it was made evident in the pandemic will help will help us to start thinking about reform. Thank you. Thank you, Kate. Thank you very much. I'd like to, to stay a little bit on on on the topic of the COVID-19 pandemic and would like now to, to, to reach out to Lindsay again. There are observations that you can share on the initial and ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, the behaviors of sending and receiving customers, the international postal supply chain, and the expectations of its participants. Sorry. Thank you again, Walter. Okay. The impact, the initial and ongoing impact. I think you could say it's been market dependent to a point. And I'll try to expand on that. The lockdowns have been affected in different ways in different countries. In New Zealand, when we went into a full lockdown for about seven weeks, you could only buy essential products. So that's household groceries, petrol and pharmaceuticals in stores and online. You couldn't purchase any and our government stipulated what was essential. And they stipulated New Zealand Post was an essential carrier and essential worker. But you could not buy non essential products and there was quite a prescriptive list. You could affect a purchase, but that meant it couldn't be delivered. So what did that mean? Well, it meant that it wasn't fulfilled. But after we locked out and moved out of our full lockdown to our alert level three, our second highest level, then anything could be delivered. It became unfettered. And all these online purchases that are backed up over seven or eight weeks could then be released to the market and freed up. And frankly, New Zealand Post was overwhelmed. Our daily volumes day on day on day over and over again were higher than our highest ever peak period. And that continued for weeks. And we got, we had trouble. Our customers were frustrated, disappointed. Our customer call centre was overwhelmed. That wasn't a great time for us. Now, that's how it played out in New Zealand. In other jurisdictions, the regulations weren't as stringent and volume certainly increased, but within more manageable flows. But what I'm sort of getting to is regardless of the regulatory environment in each country and how the rules were applied, COVID-19 stimulated and even forced a migration from bricks and mortar to clicks and online shopping. And to a significant degree, this product was carried by designated operators. So that's one of the impacts or ongoing, initial and ongoing impacts. Another one we noticed in our marketplace, like I can't speak to others, but that we saw a significant uptick in consumer to consumer export mail. Now, New Zealand has got about 5 million people on the ground in the country, but there are about 6 million New Zealanders. And any one time, you know, a million New Zealanders are somewhere else. And so as we were less affected by COVID, we started to send food parcels from home, care packages from New Zealand to our friends and family overseas. It was something we had not expected, but it was a real uptick in volume. It was quite surprising. We also, and probably a more serious aspect, we also noted that retailers swiftly became retailers. They were rapidly expanding their digital presence, often without a great deal of focus or awareness or really understanding of what they were trying to do. They knew what they were trying to achieve. They weren't sure how to go about doing what it is they wanted to do. One of our beliefs is that postal operators have a role as both a partner and a mentor in this digital expansion. We offer a suite of solutions that enable a digital evolution in our sending customers. Beyond that is the provision of relevant information, advice and support and market knowledge to unlock that growth. For example, we publish a monthly and a quarterly e-spotlight on the development and trends in e-commerce, as well as an annual full download on shopping behaviors, online shopping stats, trends as a mechanism to help businesses actually grow and evolve their digital e-commerce marketplace. You asked about expectations of the participants in the postal supply chain. Initially, these were really quite accepting of delays when purchasing, domestically and more particularly offshore. So many of the air transport links were cut. Consumers accepted that their products from overseas were just going to take longer to arrive. However, we did see a real upswing in domestic e-commerce purchasing as well, and it was driven by a couple of factors. The first, there was a growing demand back to immediacy. I want my product again. I will buy locally. But the second driver there, it was less obvious, but it was a sort of e-commerce patriotism. There was a strong government call and a call from the New Zealand Business Association to buy local. And if buy local had a slightly higher price, it was reliable with a shorter delivery time. Customers embraced this and they migrated to local online purchasing. Now it remains to be seen how sustainable that's going to be as the international supply chains are re-established. But what we've seen is expectations of sending and receiving customers change in a cycle of tolerance, acceptance, maybe even a resignation that e-commerce purchasers are just going to take a lot longer through to substitution to domestic purchasing. And then we're now seeing a swing back to the attraction of cheaper offshore products with a wider range of choice as long as it can be delivered at a pre-COVID-19 standard. And that's just a few things I could think to share with you now. Thank you, Walter. Thank you, Lindsay. Thank you. Emma, I still have two questions to you. The first one is, should the universal service obligation only ensure that all users receive a minimum level of service at a reasonable price? Or should it made up of a collection of various legal requirements and regulations covering several attributes, including geographic scope, range of products, access, delivery mode and frequency, pricing and service? And the last question to you would be, what is the main challenges in Sweden to secure sustainable and environmentally friendly postal deliveries? Emma. Thank you, Walter. Yeah. To answer your first question, I can say that in a geography like we have in Sweden with extreme conditions such as mountains, archipelagos and large areas with a scattered population, the USO that secures postal services all over the country is really essential. A reasonable distance to service is more important than delivering collection five days a week and a very quick transit time. But then when you come to what is a reasonable distance we are discussing at the regulator right now. Yeah, it's also different between different user groups. This is why the state in the long run probably will have to guarantee and finance delivery to the door to elderly and or disabled persons that need more closer service. But the needs of the majority of the population could though be fulfilled by delivering letters and parcels, not directly to the residents, but somewhere nearby where they pass on a daily basis. So this was the answer to your first question. Yes, what are the main challenges in Sweden to secure sustainable and environmental friendly postal services? We can see and I would mention two challenges here. One of the main challenges is to make postal service a part of other deliveries. This means that delivering and collecting postal services could be coordinated with transports of foods, medics, fuel, clothes and other necessities. The result would be a less costly and a greener postal service, which would acquire a higher service level, especially in sparsely populated areas than the postal service could offer on its own. Another challenge that we see is to include deliveries at an early stage of the city planning to create greener and cities and open up for a more flexible postal delivery in urban areas. The aim is to meet the new needs due to the rapidly growing e-commerce. For example, could post and other goods be delivered to strategic situated hubs from which joint deliveries could be made directly to the recipients or to service points post the locals nearby. And the result would be fewer and more coordinated transports to residential areas. But what we see is to succeed creating this a much closer cooperation between authorities, municipalities, real estate owners and the industry in the strategic planning of the city is crucial. And this is an area where we have seen more and more initiatives in Sweden lately and PTS is one of several key players in this discussion. Thank you Walter. Thank you Emma. Thank you. We have to note that we are running a little bit over time so please give us another four to five minutes. So without without consuming more time I would like to give the floor to Dimitris again. To answer one last question Dimitris. How can the university service obligation read a deficient occur in that the democratic manner, whilst upholding minimum USO requirements, which includes social and environmental standards. Dimitris, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you Walter and really very insightful interventions from the panel. I will continue immediately with with answering your question so colleagues panelists indeed experiences across the world differ when it comes to postal regulation. All companies providing services under the USO ought to report to national regulators. Regulators in turn should uphold social and environmental standards so it is foreseeable to grant to the regulators the capacity to enforce corrective mechanisms in cases of non respect of those. When we discuss redefining national USOs definitions regulatory frameworks must absolutely impede instances of unfair competition and social dumping. How through upholding fair practices in terms of employment conditions environmental performance and certainly quality of service. All market players involved in the USO ought to contribute to its financing whilst guaranteeing the high quality of service at uniform and affordable prices. Companies should not be able to cherry pick only profitable areas. They should not be authorized to operate if they practice social dumping. Current definitions of the USO in terms of quality affordability accessibility delivery time and frequency must be upheld and or maintained as defined in each national context. Delivery has a price free delivery advertisements notably through retailers create market distortions, which put pressure on prices and in turn on wages. Market liberalization needs to be accompanied by social cohesion measures that guarantee decent wages and good working conditions for all market players involved in the postal supply chain. In the European Union since 2008 with the third postal directive postal companies operate in a fully liberalized markets. In time, the Commission and the member states argued that liberalization would bring about higher quality greater efficiency and better customer orientation lower prices, more and better jobs. This, unfortunately colleagues has not come to pass. Companies have cut costs by downsizing or outsourcing the postal networks post offices have been transformed into access points at petrol stations supermarkets with limited services. The public currently spends more time and travels farther to access postal services to guarantee that the postal service ensures social and territorial cohesion. The existing services must be maintained and of course adapted liberalization has not brought about higher quality. It has meant drops in employment and a deterioration of working conditions. It has put at risk the sustainable financing of the USO and hence the very mission of the posts. A truly fledged citizen right to consume postal products, based on an informed choice between operators is unfortunately lacking in many countries of the world. This choice becomes informed if all market players abide by similar legal and regulatory standards, which is currently not the case. I will close my intervention by saying that to benefit the citizens and the consumers market operators must compete within a regulatory level playing field that abides by social and environmental standards as defined at national level, and that do not engage in a race to the bottom in terms of wages working conditions and profit seeking. Thank you Walter. Please thank you very much for this very insightful comments. This brings me to the end of this webinar. Let me thank the panelists and Kate Mooth, the CEO of iMac for an insightful presentation today. This is the third and last of our three webinars hosted by the consultative committee of the Universal Postal Union on the various aspects of e-commerce. All webinars will be made available for listening in the dedicated area of the UPU file share for members of the UPUCC, but also for the whole UPU community. You can download the chat if you want, sir. All the very good links to presentations and further information. Thank you for participating and we are looking forward to your participation in the upcoming webinars of the UPU and in particular of the consultative committee. Thank you very much indeed again. And I wish you a very good day. Good night. Good morning. Have a very good day. Bye bye. Thank you. Thank you. Goodbye. Bye. Thank you very much. Thanks very much. Bye. Bye. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.